Podcast / The Time of Monsters / Mar 2, 2025

Trump Upturns American Foreign Policy

On this episode of The Time of Monsters, Stephen Wertheim on how America First went from rhetoric to policy.

The Nation Podcasts
The Nation Podcasts

Here's where to find podcasts from The Nation. Political talk without the boring parts, featuring the writers, activists and artists who shape the news, from a progressive perspective.

Trump Upturns American Foreign Policy w/ Stephen Wertheim | Time of Monsters with Jeet Heer
byThe Nation Magazine

On this episode of the Time of Monsters, Jeet Heer is joined by Stephen Wertheim to discuss how 'America First' went from rhetoric to policy.

During his first term in office, Donald Trump often talked about his radical America First agenda but in practice his foreign policy was that of a conventional Republican hawk. Just five weeks into his second term, there has been a marked shift. As Stephen Wertheim, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, recently noted in The Guardian, Trump 2.0 is marked by a turn toward a foreign policy that is much more focused on the Western Hemisphere and away from Europe and more geared toward tariffs as a weapon of economic warfare. In other words, Trump has now found advisers who are willing to implement the core strategy of America First in a real way.

This shift has frightened many American allies, particularly the NATO countries and Mexico. Yet mixed with Trump’s advocacy of a new Manifest Destiny have been welcome indications that his administration will be more open to negotiating with Russia, Iran and perhaps even China.

To make sense Trump’s conflicting foreign policy messages and actions, I was happy to talk to Stephen Wertheim, who shares my belief that we need to distinguish between Trump’s rhetoric and his actions.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Donald Trump during a news conference with Emmanuel Macron, France’s president, not pictured, in the East Room of the White House in Washington, DC, on Monday, February 24.

(Al Drago / Bloomberg via Getty Images)

During his first term in office, Donald Trump often talked about his radical America First agenda, but in practice his foreign policy was that of a conventional Republican hawk. Just five weeks into his second term, there has been a marked shift. As Stephen Wertheim, a senior fellow at the  Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, recently noted in The Guardian, Trump 2.0 is marked by a turn toward a foreign policy that is much more focused on the Western Hemisphere and away from Europe and more geared toward tariffs as a weapon of economic warfare. In other words, Trump has now found advisers who are willing to implement the core strategy of America First in a real way.

This shift has frightened many American allies, particularly the NATO countries and Mexico. Yet mixed with Trump’s advocacy of a new Manifest Destiny have been welcome indications that his administration will be more open to negotiating with Russia, Iran and perhaps even China.

To make sense Trump’s conflicting foreign policy messages and actions, I was happy to talk to Stephen Wertheim, who shares my belief that we need to distinguish between Trump’s rhetoric and his actions.

Subscribe to The Nation to support all of our podcasts: thenation.com/podcastsubscribe.

The Nation Podcasts
The Nation Podcasts

Here's where to find podcasts from The Nation. Political talk without the boring parts, featuring the writers, activists and artists who shape the news, from a progressive perspective.

Fighting Trump’s Corruption w/ Chris Lehmann / The Time of Monsters with Jeet Heer
byThe Nation Magazine

Donald Trump is corrupt on a scale that puts all other criminal presidents, including Richard Nixon, to shame. One recent example is the so-called Anti-Weaponization fund of $1,776,000,000, being deployed to reward convicted criminals who stormed the Capitol on January 6, 2021. Trump and his cronies are also profiting from billion-dollar deals with foreign governments and engaged in stock market trading while in office. 

My Nation colleague Chris Lehmann has written about this in a recent column. We talk about both the corruption, and the political tools Democrats can use to fight it.

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Privacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Subscribe to The Nation to Support all of our podcasts

Support The Nation’s June Fundraising Campaign

With the midterm elections now firmly upon us, the question is whether Democratic candidates will do more than merely occupy ballot lines as mild alternatives to the red-hot crisis that is Donald Trump.

As Trump spends over $1 billion a day on a globally destabilizing war on Iran and admits that he doesn’t “think about Americans’ financial situation,” millions across the country are struggling with the surging costs of essentials. Democrats must seize this moment and advance bold, small-“d” populist ideas—not settle for cynical caution that once again snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.

The Nation elevates progressive ideas, movements, and elected officials achieving real change across the country into the national conversation. At the same time, our journalists are exposing how crypto and AI-funded super PACs are spending hundreds of millions of dollars to knock out candidates they oppose, reporting on the devastating impact of the Supreme Court’s evisceration of the Voting Rights Act, and sounding the alarm on attempts by red states to quickly redraw electoral maps, disenfranchising Southern Black voters.

We can play this critical role because of support from readers like you. This June, we’re raising $20,000 to power The Nation’s independent journalism in the run-up to November’s immensely consequential elections.

It’s in our power to build a more just society, and your support at this critical moment brings us closer to that bold vision. I hope you’ll donate today.

Onward,

Katrina vanden Huevel
Editor and Publisher, The Nation

Jeet Heer

Jeet Heer is a national affairs correspondent for The Nation and host of the weekly Nation podcast, The Time of Monsters. He also pens the monthly column “Morbid Symptoms.” The author of In Love with Art: Francoise Mouly’s Adventures in Comics with Art Spiegelman (2013) and Sweet Lechery: Reviews, Essays and Profiles (2014), Heer has written for numerous publications, including The New Yorker, The Paris Review, Virginia Quarterly Review, The American Prospect, The GuardianThe New Republic, and The Boston Globe.

More from The Nation

FIFA President Gianni Infantino holds the FIFA World Cup winner's trophy while speaking during the FIFA World Cup 2026 International Broadcast Center Grand Opening ceremony.

An Antifascist Guide to the World Cup—With Alex Shephard  An Antifascist Guide to the World Cup—With Alex Shephard 

It turns out there’s a not-insignificant intersection between the World Cup, democracy, and authoritarianism. 

Fighting Trump’s Corruption

Fighting Trump’s Corruption Fighting Trump’s Corruption

Chris Lehmann on grifts and slush funds.

Jeet Heer

US Secretary of State Marco Rubio (R) welcomes Pakistani Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Mohammad Ishaq Dar at the State Department on May 29, 2026.

The US-Iran War Escalates, Israel Expands Its Lebanon Campaign, the CIA Feuds With the Outgoing Intelligence Chief The US-Iran War Escalates, Israel Expands Its Lebanon Campaign, the CIA Feuds With the Outgoing Intelligence Chief

There’s too much Knickerbocker news to fit here, but we do have other stories to report.

Daniel Bessner and Derek Davison

The New York Knicks celebrate with the Bob Cousy Trophy after defeating the Cleveland Cavaliers 130–93 in Game Four of the NBA Eastern Conference Finals.

How Racism Shadows the 250th—With Eddie Glaude... and The Knicks! How Racism Shadows the 250th—With Eddie Glaude... and The Knicks!

Author and Professor Eddie Glaude joins the show to talk new book and Arya returns to talk about the NBA Finals.

Dave Zirin

Tesla and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk attends a state banquet for US President Donald Trump and China's President Xi Jinping.

The SpaceX IPO Gives Elon Musk Even More Power—With Sean O’Kane  The SpaceX IPO Gives Elon Musk Even More Power—With Sean O’Kane 

Paris Marx talks to Sean O’Kane about how Elon Musk is justifying SpaceX’s massive valuation and the way corporate governance rules are giving him even more power.

Paris Marx

A man checks in to vote at a polling location at the Los Angeles County Registrar during early voting in the state's primary election.

The Dems After Tuesday’s Primaries, plus Elmore Leonard’s Bad Guys The Dems After Tuesday’s Primaries, plus Elmore Leonard’s Bad Guys

John Nichols analyzes this week’s primary results in California and elsewhere, and, from the archives, Elmore Leonard talks about where his characters and plots came from.

Jon Wiener

x