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Harvard Takes a Stand—Plus, Musk and the Technocrats

On this episode of Start Making Sense, David Cole talks about Harvard’s decision not to submit to Trump’s demands, and Jill Lepore explains where Musk got his ideas.

Jon Wiener

April 16, 2025

A protester holds a sign reading “Educate, Don’t Capitulate!!” featuring Harvard University shields during a rally at Cambridge Common on April 12.(Erin Clark / The Boston Globe via Getty Images)

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Harvard Takes a Stand; plus Musk and the Technocrats | Start Making Sense
byThe Nation Magazine

While Trump’s attacks on the universities have broadened, and while Columbia is submitting to his requirements, Harvard’s president has declared that Harvard will not comply with the Trump’s demands in exchange for keeping its federal funding. David Cole comments – he recently stepped down as National Legal Director of the ACLU to return to teaching law at Georgetown.

Also: Elon Musk’s obsession with rockets and robots sounds futuristic, but “few figures in public life are more shackled to the past” – that’s what Jill Lepore has found. His ideas at DOGE seem to come from his grandfather, a founder of the anti-democratic Technocracy movement of the 1930s. Jill Lepore teaches history and law at Harvard, and writes for The New Yorker.

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While Trump’s attacks on the universities have broadened in the last few weeks, and and while Columbia is submitting to Trump’s requirements, Harvard’s president has declared that Harvard will not comply with the Trump’s demands in exchange for keeping its federal funding. David Cole comments—he recently stepped down as national legal director of the ACLU to return to teaching law at Georgetown.

Also on this episode: Elon Musk’s obsession with rockets and robots sounds futuristic, but “few figures in public life are more shackled to the past”—that’s what Jill Lepore has found. His ideas at DOGE seem to come from his grandfather, a founder of the antidemocratic Technocracy movement of the 1930s. Jill Lepore teaches history and law at Harvard, and writes for The New Yorker.

Subscribe to The Nation to support all of our podcasts: thenation.com/podcastsubscribe.

The Nation Podcasts

Here's where to find podcasts from The Nation. Political talk without the boring parts, featuring the writers, activists and artists who shape the news, from a progressive perspective.

How LA Defeated Trump, Plus Bob Dylan’s Xmas | Start Making Sense
byThe Nation Magazine

In June, Trump sent more than 4,000 National Guard troops and 700 Marines to occupy Los Angeles and terrorize the immigrant population. But by the end of July, almost all the Guard and the Marines were gone. Bill Gallegos explains how that happened and what other cities can learn from it. 

Also: Bob Dylan fans have been puzzled and troubled by his Christmas album ever since he released it in 2009. To help figure out what Dylan was doing, we turn to Sean Wilentz. He’s author of Bob Dylan in America, and he also teaches history at Princeton. (Originally recorded in January, 2005.)​ 

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Subscribe to The Nation to Support all of our podcasts

Jon WienerTwitterJon Wiener is a contributing editor of The Nation and co-author (with Mike Davis) of Set the Night on Fire: L.A. in the Sixties.


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