The Never-Trump Crowd Still Loves Middle East Wars
On this episode of The Time of Monsters, David Klion on neocons and the attack on Iran.
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The Never Trump Crowd Still Loves Mid-East Wars | The Time of Monsters with Jeet Heer
Over the last decade, centrist Democrats have diligent courted Never Trump Republicans, hoping that this cohort could help create a new consensus politics to oppose the MAGA coalition. From the start, this strategy seemed flawed: after all, this faction is very small and also carries a lot of baggage. In particular, neo-conservatives such as William Kristol and David Frum, now Never Trump stalwarts, were responsible for two of the biggest foreign policy disasters in American history, George W. Bush’s War on Terror and the invasion of Iraq.
Have this Never Trump conservatives learned from history? Alas, as my colleague David Klion points out in a recent column, many of them haven’t. Kristol and Frum are now cheerleading the attack on Iran (although to be fair their former ally Robert Kagan is more skeptical). I talked to David about the neocons and why they remain a pernicious force in American politics even if they vote against Trump.
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TEHRAN, IRAN – JUNE 25: An Iranian flag is draped from a building damaged during a recent attack by Israel near Milad Tower in Tehran, Iran, on June 25, 2025. The ceasefire that began on June 24 appears to be in effect between Iran and Israel. The two countries had exchanged missile fire daily for almost two weeks after Israel launched a preemptive strike on Iran’s nuclear program, military leadership, and other locations starting from June 13. (Photo by Majid Saeedi/Getty Images)
(Majid Saeedi / Getty Images)Over the last decade, centrist Democrats have diligently courted Never Trump Republicans, hoping that this cohort could help create a new consensus politics to oppose the MAGA coalition. From the start, this strategy seemed flawed: After all, this faction is very small and also carries a lot of baggage. In particular, neoconservatives such as William Kristol and David Frum, now Never Trump stalwarts, were responsible for two of the biggest foreign policy disasters in American history, George W. Bush’s Global War on Terror and the invasion of Iraq.
Have this Never Trump conservatives learned from history? Alas, as my colleague David Klion points out in a recent column, many of them haven’t. Kristol and Frum are now cheerleading the attack on Iran (although to be fair their former ally Robert Kagan is more skeptical). I talked to David about the neocons and why they remain a pernicious force in American politics even if they vote against Trump.
Subscribe to The Nation to support all of our podcasts: thenation.com/podcastsubscribe.
The Nation Podcasts
Here's where to find podcasts from The Nation. Political talk without the boring parts, featuring the writers, activists and artists who shape the news, from a progressive perspective.
The Living Legacy of Norman Podhoretz w/ David Klion and Ronnie Grinberg | The Time of Monsters with Jeet Heer
Norman Podhoretz, one of the founding fathers of neoconservatism, died on December 16 at
age 95. His legacy is a complex one, since in recent decades neoconservatism has been
supplanted in many ways by American First conservatism. But many aspects of Podhoretz’s
influence still play a shaping role on right. I take up Podhoretz’s career with David Klion (who
wrote an obituary for the pundit for The Nation) and the historian Ronnie Grinberg, who had
discussed Podhoretz in her book Write Like a Man.
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