Podcast / The Time of Monsters / Mar 2, 2025

Trump Upturns American Foreign Policy

On this episode of The Time of Monsters, Stephen Wertheim on how America First went from rhetoric to policy.

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Trump Upturns American Foreign Policy w/ Stephen Wertheim | Time of Monsters with Jeet Heer
byThe Nation Magazine

On this episode of the Time of Monsters, Jeet Heer is joined by Stephen Wertheim to discuss how 'America First' went from rhetoric to policy.

During his first term in office, Donald Trump often talked about his radical America First agenda but in practice his foreign policy was that of a conventional Republican hawk. Just five weeks into his second term, there has been a marked shift. As Stephen Wertheim, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, recently noted in The Guardian, Trump 2.0 is marked by a turn toward a foreign policy that is much more focused on the Western Hemisphere and away from Europe and more geared toward tariffs as a weapon of economic warfare. In other words, Trump has now found advisers who are willing to implement the core strategy of America First in a real way.

This shift has frightened many American allies, particularly the NATO countries and Mexico. Yet mixed with Trump’s advocacy of a new Manifest Destiny have been welcome indications that his administration will be more open to negotiating with Russia, Iran and perhaps even China.

To make sense Trump’s conflicting foreign policy messages and actions, I was happy to talk to Stephen Wertheim, who shares my belief that we need to distinguish between Trump’s rhetoric and his actions.

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Donald Trump during a news conference with Emmanuel Macron, France’s president, not pictured, in the East Room of the White House in Washington, DC, on Monday, February 24.

(Al Drago / Bloomberg via Getty Images)

During his first term in office, Donald Trump often talked about his radical America First agenda, but in practice his foreign policy was that of a conventional Republican hawk. Just five weeks into his second term, there has been a marked shift. As Stephen Wertheim, a senior fellow at the  Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, recently noted in The Guardian, Trump 2.0 is marked by a turn toward a foreign policy that is much more focused on the Western Hemisphere and away from Europe and more geared toward tariffs as a weapon of economic warfare. In other words, Trump has now found advisers who are willing to implement the core strategy of America First in a real way.

This shift has frightened many American allies, particularly the NATO countries and Mexico. Yet mixed with Trump’s advocacy of a new Manifest Destiny have been welcome indications that his administration will be more open to negotiating with Russia, Iran and perhaps even China.

To make sense Trump’s conflicting foreign policy messages and actions, I was happy to talk to Stephen Wertheim, who shares my belief that we need to distinguish between Trump’s rhetoric and his actions.

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The Nation Podcasts

Here's where to find podcasts from The Nation. Political talk without the boring parts, featuring the writers, activists and artists who shape the news, from a progressive perspective.

The Living Legacy of Norman Podhoretz w/ David Klion and Ronnie Grinberg | The Time of Monsters with Jeet Heer
byThe Nation Magazine

Norman Podhoretz, one of the founding fathers of neoconservatism, died on December 16 at

age 95. His legacy is a complex one, since in recent decades neoconservatism has been

supplanted in many ways by American First conservatism. But many aspects of Podhoretz’s

influence still play a shaping role on right. I take up Podhoretz’s career with David Klion (who

wrote an obituary for the pundit for The Nation) and the historian Ronnie Grinberg, who had

discussed Podhoretz in her book Write Like a Man.

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Jeet Heer

Jeet Heer is a national affairs correspondent for The Nation and host of the weekly Nation podcast, The Time of Monsters. He also pens the monthly column “Morbid Symptoms.” The author of In Love with Art: Francoise Mouly’s Adventures in Comics with Art Spiegelman (2013) and Sweet Lechery: Reviews, Essays and Profiles (2014), Heer has written for numerous publications, including The New Yorker, The Paris Review, Virginia Quarterly Review, The American Prospect, The GuardianThe New Republic, and The Boston Globe.

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