Podcast / The Time of Monsters / Jul 14, 2025

The Roots of Trump’s Foreign Policy Instability

On this episode of The Time of Monsters, Justin Logan on the factional battles that have bedevilled the White House.

The Time of Monsters with Jeet Heer
The Time of Monsters with Jeet Heer

The Time of Monsters podcast features Nation national-affairs correspondent Jeet Heer’s signature blend of political culture and cultural politics. Each week, he’ll host in-depth conversations with urgent voices on the most pressing issues of our time.

The Roots of Trump’s Foreign Policy Instability w/ Justin Logan
byThe Nation Company LLC

Donald Trump’s foreign policy has been as unstable as the man himself, shifting quickly from

pushes for restraint to escalating wars in the Middle East. This volatility is a function not just of

Trump’s personality but the contradictions and competing factions that are gathered under the

term America First, as well as the continued power of the foreign policy establishment that

Trump has claimed he defeated but which maintains a strong capacity to shape policy. To talk

about Trump’s foreign policy and the factional battles that have bedevilled his administration, I

spoke to Justin Logan, director of defense and foreign policy studies at the Cato Institute. 

In particular we take up the attacks on Elbridge Colby, the under-secretary of defense for

policy. Colby was the subject of a Politico hatchet job which claimed he was running a rogue

foreign policy. Justin critiqued this analysis here.

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US Vice President JD Vance, left, and Elbridge Colby, under secretary of defense for policy nominee for US President Donald Trump, shake hands during a Senate Armed Services Committee confirmation hearing in Washington, DC, US, on Tuesday, March 4, 2025.

US Vice President JD Vance, left, and Elbridge Colby, under secretary of defense for policy nominee for US President Donald Trump, shake hands during a Senate Armed Services Committee confirmation hearing in Washington, DC, US, on Tuesday, March 4, 2025.

(Kent Nishimura / Bloomberg via Getty Images)

Donald Trump’s foreign policy has been as unstable as the man himself, shifting quickly from pushes for restraint to escalating wars in the Middle East. This volatility is a function not just of Trump’s personality but also the contradictions and competing factions that are gathered under the term America First, as well as the continued power of the foreign policy establishment that Trump has claimed he defeated, but which maintains a strong capacity to shape policy. To talk about Trump’s foreign policy and the factional battles that have bedeviled his administration, I spoke to Justin Logan, director of defense and foreign policy studies at the Cato Institute.

In particular, we take up the attacks on Elbridge Colby, the undersecretary of defense for policy. Colby was the subject of a Politico hatchet job that claimed he was running a rogue foreign policy. Justin critiqued this analysis here.

Subscribe to The Nation to support all of our podcasts: thenation.com/podcastsubscribe.

The Time of Monsters with Jeet Heer
The Time of Monsters with Jeet Heer

The Time of Monsters podcast features Nation national-affairs correspondent Jeet Heer’s signature blend of political culture and cultural politics. Each week, he’ll host in-depth conversations with urgent voices on the most pressing issues of our time.

Bombing Iran Won’t Help the Protestors w/ Annelle Sheline
byThe Nation Company LLC

Iran is facing upheavals at home and abroad. For more than two decades, the Islamic republic

has faced waves of protests from citizens demanding a more democratic society. Over the past

two weeks, these protests have erupted with a new ferocity and are being met with violent

repression. Meanwhile, the Israeli government is pushing the United States to renew bombing

Iran, a military objective now being given the guise of a humanitarian mission. To discuss the

turmoil in Iran and place it in the larger context of regional instability and competing visions of

the future of the Middle East, I spoke with Annelle Sheline, a research fellow at The Quincy

Institute who studies the region.

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Jeet Heer

Jeet Heer is a national affairs correspondent for The Nation and host of the weekly Nation podcast, The Time of Monsters. He also pens the monthly column “Morbid Symptoms.” The author of In Love with Art: Francoise Mouly’s Adventures in Comics with Art Spiegelman (2013) and Sweet Lechery: Reviews, Essays and Profiles (2014), Heer has written for numerous publications, including The New Yorker, The Paris Review, Virginia Quarterly Review, The American Prospect, The GuardianThe New Republic, and The Boston Globe.

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