There is absolutely no way that the Bush administration could possibly go to war with Iran at this point. We went into Iraq because Clinton and Bush said Iraq had WMDs. The people believe that they were lying. There is no way that the people would believe anything they say that would justify an attack on Iran. No Democratic or Republican candidate for president would support such action at this time and probably would not support it even if we were not in Iraq or Afghanistan. Now, Israel attacking suspected Iranian nuclear installations is another story.

Posted by bean22 at 10/5/2007

Bean22 hits the mark with the proxy war insight. Let's go one step further: the Saudi's were recently guaranteed hundreds of millions of dollars of weaponery in the name of regional stability. Strange bedfellows, surely, but fully useful for turning up the pressure on the mullahs. With the well-equipped Iranian military on alert and a load of Chinese weaponry bound for Iraq, the cauldron is heating up and the vision in the crystal ball could turn uglier rapidly. Sadly, Iraq-Clinton-Bush could turn into Iran-Bush-Clinton.

Posted by Moderatus at 10/6/2007

Going to war with Iran would be the same thing as standing on a hill after pushing everyone else down. It would be literaly a show of bravado, demonstrating that no one can touch them anymore.

That is also consistant with the same level of intelligence and moral character that the Bush administration has displayed since 2000.

The U.S. economy demands the U.S. stay at war with someone, why not Iran? Many people in the U.S. don't even realize these countries are smaller than the state of Texas.

Big business' have made more profit in the last 5 years than they have in decades - and that does include for most members in Congress as well.

Democracy is an economic term only and has nothing to do with populist or socialist governments that are ruled by majority vote.

Posted by du2vye at 10/6/2007

cheney said he would 'take care of the iran problem' before he left office, and who are we at this point not to believe him.

with impeachment off the table, there are no reins to hold this in.

Posted by Taboo at 10/7/2007

I am completely frustrated...not so much with the Bush administration, although that continues to be in the top two, but with the complete impotence of the American People. Just a fraction of the respondants to this pole chose concerted political action by US. I am baffled as to why is a 'democracy' we are completely incapable of making a difference in the way our government behaves. I know, I know... big oil, lobbies, corruption, etc. but why are we so uncreative that we cannot figure out a way to deal decisively with an obviously corrupt and self serving government???!! Do we all have to give our life savings to a candidate to counter act the workings of the lobby system? Why, if most of us want health care for children, do we not have it? Why, if most of us want Iraq to be over, does it not happen? What am I doing wrong?

Posted by ce at 10/7/2007

The pending attack on Iran should come as a surprise to no one. The same neocon hawks who got us into the mess in Iraq have been promoting this war with increasing intensity since January.

To be on top of these events and to understand why, I recommend reading www.vdare.com

Ron Paul in '08! --AM

Posted by Avi Marranazo at 10/8/2007

To CE - there's a wall of POWER in the US. Most of us are on the outside of the wall. Those inside run the government for themselves. The power-holders serve those who serve them. Oh certainly, we the people have it pretty good here and we have a lot of stuff and often get things going our way, but only on the small issues. The power-arbiters look out for the big issues. If a person/group gets too threatening on the big issues, the power-arbiters go into action and marginalize them. History doesn't offer many options to redress this power imbalance. Without an uprising of frustrated citizens nearly to the level of revolution to change the course the US is on, the nation will most likely continue of the present course, as it has since the end of WWII and eventually be laid low by outside forces.

Posted by Moderatus at 10/8/2007

Just completly absurd that this should even be an issue. It is time for Congress to be for the People and not for the Bush crime familia

Posted by wecare at 10/8/2007

WHATEVER IT TAKES...

Apparently, public opinion against attacking Iran has at least been a strong enough force to cause Bush/Cheney to change plans from the idea of boming Iran's nuclear facilities to the idea of boming "terrorist camps" inside Iran. The selling of this notion being based, apparently, on "protecting our troops in Iraq." It's no less bogus as a rationale, since Iran has made repeated offers to help us out in Iraq, but evidently more "saleable" to the public....

Posted by w_m_bear at 10/8/2007

The Bush "administration" doesn't give a rat's ass about what the American people or the international community think. Our government has been hijacked, people. Wake up and smell the dictatorship.

Posted by jmb20 at 10/9/2007

American citizens find themselves in the same position that the colonists were in prior to the American Revolution. The only way that we can regain some influence over the powers in Washington is to either economically cripple them with massive strikes and shut downs, or find a way to muster enough courage to vote for REAL change in the leadership of the entire government. Vote for candidates who believe in peace. Vote for candidates who are willing to actually make change without military influence. Can it happen? That remains to be seen. As long as we are all hung up on partisan bickering nothing will be any different and war is inevitable.

Posted by jmb20 at 10/9/2007

I still think it looks like some kind of conspiracy. Of course we are told that is impossible and we must be imbicles for suggesting such a thing but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is probably a duck. Who is behind such a conspiracy? Who gains from such a conspiracy? Where is most of the money going? Who is in a position to blackmail congress? If the MSM was part of the conspiracy what would it look like? Would the MSM talk about a possible conspiracy? How much energy is going into NOT talking about a conspiracy? Who controls the "intelligence" that congress people get? How would the "intelligence" community benefit from prolonged war even if it wasn't compromised by a conspiracy? Does the U.S. benefit from war or unrest in the Middle East? Is the U.S. threatened by anyone in the Middle East? What did Iran ever do to us, outside of Iran? What have we done to Iran? Same questions for Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt and Jordan. This whole thing has been "spun" until it makes you dizzy, how convenient. What did Israel ever do for us? Why is Israel our ally? And how are they our ally?

Posted by johnsang at 10/9/2007

As long as the Christian fundamentalist, mainly Southern Baptists, have such an inordinate influence over our politics, Bush neocons can follow their agenda unhampered.

Posted by CHARLES H at 10/10/2007

BEAN22 Wrong. A false flag attack in America, blamed on the Iranians could make us go to war with Iran Just like 9/11 made us go to war with Afghanistan and Iraq.

Read this:

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/10/366787.shtml

TOPOFF and Portland author: A concerned U.S. citizen link to t4falseflag.googlegroups.com Citizens of Portland - Be vigilant next week! There is much concern for your safety with the upcoming TOPOFF exercise - Operation Vigilant Shield. This may be the one that destroys your city and pushes this country into martial law. Read the document at the link provided. There are those of us out here in the rest of the country who are very concerned. I will pray that nothing happens but please be careful!

Posted by Rese at 10/13/2007

In terms of warring with Iran over god knows what....They'll do it if that's part of the plan. I do think that it is time to go to the streets, but there is still the problem of getting enough people to the streets to make a difference. Our sense of activism in the macro has been fragmented by our choice to support our own 'causes'. We'll chose to support breast cancer or some other disease in order to satisfy our desire to be engaged. This works out perfectly for the powers that be. While we're marching for a disease, we're not marching for peace or justice or decency. (don't get upset, as someone with breasts I want a cure for breast cancer, I'm just trying to make a point here). The problem is leadership, who will lead us into the streets? Who will stand up and say enough? Who will put their foot down and say no to invading Iran? You?

Posted by ce at 10/14/2007

No way the administration could go to war? You been eating to many of your own beans my friend. They will sink the Maine in the Gulf of Tonkin and it will be a done deal. The really, really scary part comes when Bush refuses to yield his office on grounds of national security during wartime.

Posted by blovius at 10/14/2007

Politics in the US is corrupt. So if you follow the campaign money, you have a much better chance of figuring out what's coming next, and AIPAC is still driving the bus on this one.

AIPAC believes that all of their neighbors must be weaker than Israel, and if this requires more invasions and more occupations, then this is what they will continue to push for.

America needs to stand up to AIPAC and not be intimidated in the slightest bit by their "you're an anti-semite" tactics. This is not about being against Jews, it is about being for America. As Americans, we simply cannot afford the invasions and occupations that AIPAC has planned for us, and security in the US and around the world will be worse off if we continue down this path. Why continue to shake the Muslim bee hive and pretend that the bees will not sting us?

We need to turn the page on AIPAC, insisting that Israel learn to live within its legal borders and at peace with its neighbors. Foreign aid and further loan guarantees to Israel must be conditioned upon them meeting "benchmarks for peace", including dismantling all of the Israeli settlements on Palestinian land, dismantling the wall that divides them from their neighbors, and signing the same nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty that has been signed by Iran.

Posted by Metteyya at 10/15/2007

In the event of a US war against Iran, GWBush doesn't have to declare martial law & suspend '08 elections, as the unavoidable Dem candidate at this point -- Hillary -- is clearly prepared to continue such a war as well as maintain permanent US military bases in Iraq. Mission accomplished. With Hillary, the imperial project stays on course, The Owners served as per their orders.

Posted by sloper at 10/15/2007

Metteyya, if you aren't a Jew hater you're a complete moron. There will be peace only when Israel's neighbors learn to live in peace. Because they're the ones looking to destroy Israel, not the other way around. If the U.S. follows your advice, there won't be an Israel, which is probably what you really want anyways. And we don't have to shake the Muslim bee hive. Those are killer bees and they don't need any excuses to attack us.

Posted by bean22 at 10/15/2007

As far as I'm concerned, the complete morons are the people who are NOT standing up to the Zionists. Israel is a police-state, founded as a home for the Chosen Race in 1917 (not in 1948) and has been marked by non-stop war, terrorism and brutality ever since. And the Balfour declaration which created Israel was signed in 1917, 15 years before anyone ever heard of Hitler. We're all supposed to believe that the Holocaust led to the creation of Israel. It's really the other way around.

The Jews have never stopped trying to steal this land for themselves and themselves alone, and haven't gotten over their failed coup against the Roman Army in AD 70; the last time they legitimately had much presence in the land. So if the Jews get to re-claim their ancestral home of 2000 years ago, does that mean that I should be entitled to take over London or Paris or Rome (or wherever my ancestors were 2000 years ago) and kick out all the people who don't look like me?? Most people don't even know where their great,great,great, great, great 90 more times, grandparents lived. Why should they even care? This is racism in its most elemental form, folks. The worlds oldest conspiracy is the takeover of the Promised Land by and for the Chosen Race.

If you can think of a better recipe for WWIII, I'd like to hear it. There will only be one nuclear world war, and the zionists are doing everything they can to start it, as they beat the drum for the Iran invasion / strike.

Not all zionists are Jews and not all Jews are zionists, fortunately. The Christian right is equally reprehensible in their complete disregard for moral behavior in the name of self-serving fundamentalism.

It's amazing how the US has such a twisted view of history. The rest of the world knows better, which is why we're the only country to support Israel, willingly. (Germany is contractually obligated.) Wake up, folks. Israel has as much "right to exist" as the Third Reich or apartheid S. Africa. And tempus fugit.

Posted by DejaVu at 10/16/2007

Dejavu? A perfect name for the anti-semitic rantings of the typical Jew hater. But just remember. After they kill off all the Jews they're going to be coming after you. And it's going to be dejavu all over again.

Posted by bean22 at 10/17/2007

Posted by bpark16 at 10/18/2007

If the U.S. follows your advice, there won't be an Israel, which is probably what you really want anyways.

Bean22,

You really do not understand the root problem.

Israel has decided to thumb its nose at the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) by developing their own nuclear weapons in violation of this treaty, and then tries to hold its neighbors to "its own standard" which also violates the treaty. The NPT clearly provides for development of nuclear technology for peaceful purposes, and I do not know if you have been following the refining capacity problem in Iran that has led to rationing of gasoline, but generating alternative sources of power is a REAL concern for Iran.

And if you really understood "balance of power" theory in international relations, you would understand that the very existence of a clandestine nuclear weapons program in Israel will motivate others in the region to develop their own to match Israel's capability (eg., Pakistan and India).

Again, rather than shake the Muslim bee hive, why not offer to build the nuclear power plants that Iran needs or offer to build more refineries? Or better yet, sign the NPT and show "by example" that nuclear weapons have no place in a civilized society.

With AIPAC and the Israeli government, there is absolutely no objectivity on this issue and no serious effort to exhaust non-military solutions to the conflict. With them, it is "our way or the highway", yet they expect the Amercian taxpayer to foot the bill for their intransigence.

I say to you and every other AIPAC booster, "get the hell out of my pocket with your war-mongering ways". Paying a half a trillion dollars supporting your Iraq war and probably 10 times that to invade and occupy Iran is crazy and will bankrupt America. Maybe you or AIPAC don't give a damn about the economic plight of "this" country, but we as Americans are fed up with you spending our money like there is no tomorrow.

Israel needs to show a little humility and be much more conciliatory in their tone and actions in their neighborhood. After all, it was their "forcing their way" into the neighborhood that has led to the conflict, and therefore the only way to resolve this conflict is to show their neighbors that they can be a "positive" force in the region, something I think their neighbors would welcome.

Why doesn't Israel take the initiative to help build schools in Muslim countries in their neighborhood and engage in meaningful self-sustaining economic development that benefits the entire region, not just Israel? If Israel is only out for themselves, this selfish attitude will only be met by more resistance to their very presence in the Middle East.

This entire Israeli saga reminds me of a well-off family in my neighborhood that had a big fancy mansion, swimming pool, and huge gates and a fence to keep others out. All of the kids in our neighborhood hated the family, because the perception was that they only cared about themselves and would not even share their pool with the neighborhood kids, so we decided to exclude their kids from all of our activities. Some kids would even throw rocks at the house and throw dead squirrels over the fence that would land in their pool.

Later in life, I found myself interviewing with the owner of the house, who was a federal appellate court judge. I will never forget the mixed feelings I had in the interview. On one hand, I obviously wanted the clerkship to benefit my career, but on the other hand I kept thinking about the house, the fence, and his kids, and their "closed-off and selfish" approach to the neighborhood.

Ultimately, I passed on the job for other reasons, but the point is still worth mentioning that being a selfish neighbor doesn't get you anywhere with the people in the neighborhood. Israel needs to learn how to become a good neighbor, and this effort needs to be exhausted "first" before the US can support any more military adventures on behalf of AIPAC and Israel.

Posted by Metteyya at 10/18/2007

Bush seems to be re-living the Crusades--and acts like he is the producer of a real life version of the Book of Revelations.

Posted by dccdga at 10/18/2007

I DO NOT WANT TO GO TO WAR WITH IRAN. I AM SICK OF WAR, I WANT IT TO STOP. I WILL PAY FOR NO MORE WAR, I WILL NOT PAY FOR MORE WAR. TAXES, FEES & FINES -- AS LONG AS THEY DO NOT FUND MORE WAR.

Posted by bbysn at 10/19/2007

It boggles the mind to always hear the refrain: anti-semite, when you're a non-Jew criticizing Israel, or self-hating jew if you're a Jew criticizing Israel. It's getting real old and tired...

Posted by Cameiros at 10/20/2007

All evil or divine happenings in the world are not directly related to the Jewish people....Knock it off. Instead of clouding the issue and trying to be 'right' our energies would be better spent trying to figure out a way to effect change in Washington. It amazes me that we are so stupid as to argue this among ourselves but never discuss stratagies to make our voices heard where it matters. We can feel better for a moment that we get our point across in a this little forum, but how about discussing ways to get our point across to the government?? No war in Iran!

Posted by ce at 10/21/2007

We can feel better for a moment that we get our point across in a this little forum, but how about discussing ways to get our point across to the government?

CE,

You really don't get it,do you? Our government has been for sale for quite some time, and the "pay to play" culture there means your representative will listen more intently to groups like AIPAC that fund their campaigns than you the individual voter.

We can't change the actions of Republicans and their lobbying groups, but we can stop voting for Democratic candidates that take money bundled by AIPAC operatives. If these candidates are rejected at the polls, US foreign policy in the Middle East would change over-night!

Posted by Metteyya at 10/21/2007

Writing in the October 8, 2007 issue of the American Conservative, Philip Weiss reported that a story titled "Pro-Surge Group Is Almost All Jewish," from the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, a wire service for Jewish news, noted that four out of five members of Freedom's Watch board are Jewish, and half of its donors are Jewish. According to Weiss, "The JTA quoted one of its directors, Matthew Brooks, saying this was strictly a 'coincidence.'"

Freedom's Watch Targeting Iran

By Bill Berkowitz

1020/07 "ich" -- -- Global Research -- -- After successfully holding the line on Congressional support for the surge in Iraq, wealthy Bush backers are turning their attention and money to drumming up support for military action against Iran.

If the U.S. undertakes military action against Iran, you can credit such longtime neoconservatives as Norman Podhoretz, William Kristol, Michael Ledeen and the swarm of ideologues buzzing about Washington's right wing think tanks. You can also credit Pastor John Hagee and his Christians United for Israel, a Christian Zionist outfit with unbending support for Israel. And credit also the billionaire and multimillionaire founders of Freedom's Watch for helping smooth the way.

Linked text [informationclearinghouse.info]

Billionaire's and multimillionaire's, most of whom are Jewish, lobbying for another war fought for Israel, by Americans, against Iran.

Anyone believe that crock?

Posted by Greg Bacon at 10/22/2007

Of course the government is for sale, you don't have to be a genius to figure that out. What I'm suggesting is that we are blinded by our own participation in the farse. Again, instead of blathering on about which group has the most money and influence, wouldn't we be more effective if we worked collectively on ways of resisting the corruption. Perhaps Marx was right that there is no revolution unless people are hungry...we're obviously very well fed....

Posted by ce at 10/24/2007

With respect to Mr. Bacon's comment, I am Jewish, implacably opposed both to the Iraq war and to this Administration, and I am sick of anti-Semitic garbage about how "the Jews" are a bunch of warmongers. The self-styled "progressive" community in this country, the Nation included, should think long and hard about whether they want to alienate all of their Jewish supporters.

Posted by sgoodman at 10/26/2007

Yea!! Portland Oregon still stands!!

Posted by lewwelge at 10/28/2007

I am thinking that impeachment would send a nice and powerful message that the people do NOT agree with the asinine decisions from the incompetent "decider".

Posted by theplunkett at 11/9/2007

IMPEACHMENT and a Trail for WAR CRIMES .Bush and Cheney are as if not More guilty than Saddom ever was !I am voting for Kucinich and I live in TEXAS !

Posted by elizajane at 11/13/2007

We need to become members of the World Court. Maybe the incoming Democratic President will sign to join it, and then the World Court would issue warrants for the arrest of Bush, Cheney and the all but forgotten Kissinger. I could finally get some rest!

Posted by highlite at 11/23/2007