The Beat

Now, What About Cheney?

posted by John Nichols on 06/14/2006 @ 02:42am

Now that the long speculation about whether White House political czar Karl Rove would be indicted for the role he played in exposing the identity of a CIA operative is done, perhaps the investigation of the Bush administration "hit" on Iraq War critic Joe Wilson can focus in on the fundamental questions that have been raised by the machinations of key players in the administration with the apparent goal of punishing a former diplomat for exposing White House misstatements and misdeeds.

The attention to Rove's involvement in the effort to reveal the identity of Wilson's wife, veteran Central Intelligence Agency operative Valerie Plame -- after Wilson, a former ambassador, revealed that key players in the Bush administration had to have know that elements of their "case" for attacking Iraq had been discredited -- was always something of a distraction. Of course, as David Corn and others have ably illustrated, Rove's actions demanded scrutiny. But the fury that so many Democrats feel toward Rove caused them to obsess on the question of whether he would be indicted, rather than to recognize that the critical indictment was that of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff and a key advisor to President Bush on national security matters.

It is Libby who faces trial in January 2007 on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice. And it is Libby, the neoconservative true believer who was the administration's willing henchman in defense of the Iraq endeavor, who connects this scandal to his old friend Cheney in a way that Rove, the political puppeteer, was unlikely ever to have connected it to Bush. Thus, from the time of Libby's indictment, the question that always mattered most was not: Will special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald indict Rove? It was always: Will Fitzgerald connect the dots that lead to Cheney?

No top office within the administration was better positioned than Cheney's to gather the information that was used to attack Wilson and his wife and to peddle that information to the press. In fact, as Joe Wilson told me in an interview about the leaking of his wife's name that we did early in 2004, "With respect to who actually leaked the information, there are really only a few people -- far fewer than the president let on when he said there are a lot of senior administration officials -- who could have done it. At the end of the day, you have to have the means, the keys to the conversations at which somebody might drop my wife's name -- deliberately or not -- a national security clearance, and a reason to be talking about this. When you look at all that, there are really very few people who exist at that nexis between national security and foreign policy and politics. You can count them, literally, on two hands."

Wilson added that, without a doubt, "the vice president is one of those people."

We now know just how right Wilson was. Libby has been indicted. And that documents related to that indictment are filled with references to meetings with Cheney on the very day that Libby began calling reporters as a part of a push to discredit Wilson. We have a copy of a column Wilson wrote for The New York Times with notes from Cheney attacking the former ambassador and making reference to his wife. We have transcripts of Libby saying that he acted with "approval from the President through the Vice President" when he distributed previously classified information -- specifically, portions of a National Intelligence Estimate regarding Saddam Hussein's purported efforts to develop nuclear weapons -- to the media as part of the move to discredit Wilson.

At this point, it is unclear whether Fitzegerald will see his investigation through to its logical conclusion. But there can be no question that, with Rove off the hook, the administration and its media echo chamber will be doing everything in their power to constrain the special counsel. The White House wants this inquiry shut down.

But shutting it down now would prevent an examination of what Representative Maurice Hinchey, D-New York, correctly refers to "the heart of the CIA leak case."

Hinchey leads a group of several dozen House members who have urged Fitzgerald to officially expand his investigation to include an examination of the motives behind the leaks by Libby, focusing in particular on the question of whether the administration's intent was to discredit Ambassador Wilson's revelation that Iraq had never sought uranium from Niger or other African countries. If that is proven to be the case, Hinchey has argued, "President Bush and other top members of his administration knowingly lied about uranium to the Congress, which is a crime."

The New York congressman, who is the most determined Congressional watchdog with regard to the administration's misuse of intelligence information, was never one of those who waited for the Rove shoe to drop.

After the April revelation that Cheney's former chief of staff said he was authorized to go after Wilson by the president and vice president, Hinchey said: "If what Scooter Libby said to the grand jury is true, then this latest development clearly reveals yet again that the CIA leak case goes much deeper than the disclosure of a CIA agent's identity to the press. The heart and motive of this case is about the deliberate attempt at the highest levels of this administration to discredit those who were publicly revealing that the White House lied about its uranium claims leading up to the war. The Bush Administration knew that Iraq had not sought uranium from Africa for a nuclear weapon, yet they went around telling the Congress, the country, and the world just the opposite. When Ambassador Joseph Wilson, Valerie Wilson's husband, publicly spoke out with proof that the administration was not telling the truth on uranium, the administration engaged in an orchestrated plot, which now reportedly includes President Bush, to discredit Ambassador Wilson and dismiss any notion that they had lied about pre-war intelligence."

As Hinchey has argued for months, Libby's testimony about the authorization he received from Bush and Cheney must be seen in the context of a mounting body of evidence that rules, regulations and laws were bent far beyond the breaking point by the administration. The fact that Karl Rove has not been indicted does not eliminate that body of evidence. Nor does it resolve questions about Cheney's involvement in the scandal, or about the motivations of the president, the vice president and others who sought to discredit Ambassador Wilson for telling the truth. And it ought not serve as an excuse for shutting down an inquiry that has yet to examine "the heart of the CIA leak case."

Comments (251)

  1. I SUBMIT IT IS NOW TIME TO CRUSH THE TRAITOROUS LIBERALS LIKE THE GRAPES THAT THEY ARE...WE ARE WINNING IN IRAQ...THE ECONOMY IS AT HISTORIC HIGHS AND THE LIBZ ARE LOSING ON EVERY FRONT THEY DARE VENTURE ON (CALIF-50 ANYONE??).....JUST LIKE THE WONDERFUL TROOPS IN IRAQ GOING AFTER ALL THE TERRORISTS IN IRAQ AFTER ZARQUWIS DEATH MOPPING UP THE MONSTERS AND ENEMIES...WE NEDED TO MOP UP THE ENEMIES OF THIS COUNTRY (LIBERALS) AND FINISH THEM OFF ONCE AND FOR ALL...THEY ARE A STAIN ON OUR COUNTRY AND RESEMBLE NOTHING LIKE THE ONCE GREAT PARTY THAT THEY USED TO BE...THEY ARE A DISGRACE TO OUR COUNTRY AND NEED TO BE EXPOSED FOR WHAT THEY TRULY ARE....TRAITOROUS ANTI-AMERICAN ASSWIPE FUCKUP LOSERS ALL OF YOU!!!!

    THE LIBERAL CRACKUP IS A BEAUTIFUL SIGHT TO BEHOLD

    Posted by fukulibz at 06/13/2006 @ 3:22pm

  2. WE ARE WINNING IN IRAQ...THE ECONOMY IS AT HISTORIC HIGHS Posted by FUKULIBZ 06/13/2006 @ 3:22pm | ignore this person

    What parallel universe are you living in? The crazies that call in to AM Coast-to-Coast are more in touch with reality than you.

    Posted by bjkron at 06/13/2006 @ 3:32pm

  3. "the question that always mattered most was not: Will special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald indict Rove..."?!??!!

    Well, yeah...when Libby got indicted, but not before. Re-read some of David Corn's articles pre-2006. They were ALL about "Rove getting indicted AND convicted" of outing Plame. 70% of his titles had the word "Rove" in them.

    So, I guess, from now, until the January trial of Libby, upto his conviction/release...we're in for 8-10 months of "Cheney will be indicted any day now"?

    Posted by Mask at 06/13/2006 @ 3:35pm

  4. Like I said in an earlier thread...Cornball needs to keep his day job at Foxnews

    Posted by fukulibz at 06/13/2006 @ 3:36pm

  5. The GOP is the party that endorses the use of torture as a basic "right" of the US government.

    Why should jaws drop when the same party is incapable of convicting members of it's own party for something as "petty" as CIA leaks?

    The GOP would have you believe Bill Clinton's lying about Lewinsky was far more dangerous to national security than CIA leaks! GOP and conservatives have long been blatant hypocrites and it's great to see the unravelling of their empty, pathetic, hatefilled ideology.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 3:39pm

  6. BOO-HOO-HOO-HOO-FUCKING-BOO-HOO-HOO-HOO

    Posted by fukulibz at 06/13/2006 @ 3:42pm

  7. I know ZERO ignores me...but have to comment on this-

    Cheney simply needs to be called to testify in Libby's trial. Questioning at that point should tend to produce information that will allow for an exposure of Cheney's involvement.

    Posted by ZERO 06/13/2006 @ 3:48pm | ignore this person

    Now....go back in time about 5-6 months and replace "Cheney" with "Rove"-

    "Rove simply needs to be called to testify in Libby's trial. Questioning at that point should tend to produce information that will allow for an exposure of Rove's involvement"

    Sound familiar?

    Posted by Mask at 06/13/2006 @ 3:50pm

  8. May I suggest that the Republicans who post here lobby the federal prosecutor to move the Libby trial to this September. The Libby trial is sure to be a patriotic winner for the Republicans and, in the run-up to the mid-term elections, should be in the headlines daily.

    Posted by nathanhale at 06/13/2006 @ 3:52pm

  9. Karl Rove INVENTED the White House Iraq Group (WHIG) for one purpose. TOTAL MESSAGE CONTROL.

    Rove is a genious...an evil genious.

    He can only be effective when he knows literally everything. He is the REALITY CREATION ARCHITECT.

    At any given time he can take a set of actual facts and use each of them to stitch together a totally false reality.

    Rove knew that the truth was the enemy of their conspiracy to conquer the Middle East (the PNAC plan). His job, every single day, is to convince you, me and the rest of the world that you didn't just see and hear what you just saw and heard...or if you did, it doesn't mean what your logical mind is attempting to tell you - because "we're in a post-9/11 world now" and black is white.

    Karl Rove is the single most destructive force in the US Government...the enabler of the entire evil scheme...THE ARCHITECT.

    The scheme includes 9/11 as the essential pretext. "9/11" ... how clever, Karl! Only someone with American sensibilities would select the number we have all memorized to call in the event of life threatening emergency as the date for this evil....

    KARL ROVE.

    The war plan to invade Iraq was written BEFORE 9/11. The Secret Energy Task Force meetings that Cheney had with Ken Lay and the other OIL HOGS during which they all decided how to divide up the oil fields of the Middle East...all of that was BEFORE 9/11.

    Now you see why Cheney insisted the substance of those talks remain SECRET.

    All of their schemes and conspiracies REQUIRED 9/11 as the essential trigger.

    Cheney outsourced the implementation of the FALSE FLAG OPERATION to Mossad...the FALSE FLAG experts. This explains why over 200 Mossad agents were operating in the United States prior to 9/11. This explains why five of them were arrested, having been observed filming the planes hitting the towers and their subsequent collapse - celebrating our worst nightmare.

    9/11 was not a bad day for those involved in the Conspiracy. It was their shining moment...their PRETEXT.

    One of them washed out...couldn't cope with the guilt. Ari Fleisher had to be replaced, and disappeared. Not dead, but out of sight.

    The outing of Plame was designed to destroy the best WMD intelligence the US had at its disposal regarding Iraq. Plame knew for a FACT that Iraq had no WMD. It was HER JOB to know. Therefore Rove perceived Plame (the truth) as his WORST ENEMY, and conceived of a plan to silence her. Rove is the individual who insisted that Wilson be sent to Niger.

    GUARANTEED.

    This was the only way to launch a smear program which appeared to be aimed at Wilson, but was intended solely to shut down the entire Brewster Jennings operation and bury their WMD evidence.

    THAT IS ALL ROVE.

    He invented WHIG:

    The group's members included Rove, Bush advisor Karen Hughes, Senior Advisor to the Vice President Mary Matalin, Deputy Director of Communications James Wilkinson, Assistant to the President and Legislative Liaison Nicholas Calio, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley and I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby.

    Every single one of these individuals is a co-conspirator in a concerted effort to defraud America into committing its troops and its treasure to invade a foreign country to the sole benefit of BIG OIL AND ISRAEL.

    The pending invasion of Iran is the next phase of the very same conspiracy. Karen Kwiatkowski let us know that Larry Franklin had set up an IRAN desk in the midst of the Pentagon's IRAQ planners. Larry Franklin has pled guilty for passing Top Secret Iranian Intelligence to AIPAC (Israel). Israeli Generals were free to come and go from the Cheney/Rumsfeld Office Of Middle East Invasion whenever they pleased, without need to sign the guest register.

    IT'S ALL THE SAME CONSPIRACY.

    9/11 - Afghanistan - Iraq - Iran - Syria.

    READ THE PNAC.

    A "New Pearl Harbor" was a REQUIREMENT for its implementation.

    Rove is running the entire PsyOps Machine to enable it.

    Hang them for TREASON.

    http://dailydocket.blogspot.com/2006/01/propaganda.html

    But whereas Hitler was a true master of propaganda, and his minister a far less talented functionary, today the situation is reversed: our propaganda minister is the master, and our leader his functionary. Karl Rove is so confident of his strategy that he now announces it to the public! In January of this year,

    Rove noted that we face "a ruthless enemy" and "need a commander in chief and a Congress who understand the nature of the threat and the gravity of the moment America finds itself in."

    Here's more:

    "[T]he people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."

    -- Karl Rove (oops!) Hermann Goering

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 4:07pm

  10. http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/01/cheney.halliburton/

    Given what we know about VP Cheney's direct financial ties to Haliburton, isn't it clear that he has committed a fraud against the United States for the purpose of illegal financial gain, in accordance with the following statute? Couldn't the same be said of any US official who knowingly made false statements to advance the cause of war, while owning shares of companies that stood to gain substantially from that war? Cheney was acting specifically on behalf of the Contractor, Haliburton, to ensure no-bid contracts were awarded, based on knowingly fraudulent information generated by his own Office Of Special Plans. It might also be construed that any official who had a relationship to the Carlyle Group was also lying on their behalf - for their own financial benefit.

    Section 1031. Major fraud against the United States

    (a) Whoever knowingly executes, or attempts to execute, any scheme or artifice with the intent - (1) to defraud the United States; or (2) to obtain money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, in any procurement of property or services as a prime contractor with the United States or as a subcontractor or supplier on a contract in which there is a prime contract with the United States, if the value of the contract, subcontract, or any constituent part thereof, for such property or services is $1,000,000 or more shall, subject to the applicability of subsection (c) of this section, be fined not more than $1,000,000, or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.

    (1) the gross loss to the Government or the gross gain to a defendant is $500,000 or greater; or

    (2) the offense involves a conscious or reckless risk of serious personal injury.

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/18/parts/i/chapters/47/se ctions/section_1031.html

    The financial links between those who lied, and those who benefitted as a direct result of the lies (primarily in the oil and military industries) are clear. The evidence that the President's speech knowingly included a lie about the Niger Yellow Cake is proveable in a court of law under oath.

    That the Vice President knew for a fact that the claim was based on a forgery in advance of the President's speech is a given. That he instructed others to ensure that the sentence made it into the speech is also a given. What did the Vice President know, and when did he know it?

    Everytime the Vice President knowingly lied to the American People to advance the cause of war, he committed a crime against the United States which both directly harmed other US citizens and directly enriched himself.

    Indict Dick Cheney for Fraud.

    http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040216fa_fact

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/politics/main575356.shtml

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/20030711-7.html

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/20030714-4.html

    The outing of Valarie Plame falls into precisely the same category, as it was specifically designed to ensure that the lead up to war continued apace...

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/10/20031001-6.html

    Consummate diplomats like Wilson typically do not speak of "lies." So outraged was Wilson, though, that this bogus story had been used to "justify" an unprovoked war, that he made a point to note that the already proven dishonesty begs the question regarding "what else they are lying about."

    It was a double whammy. And, as is now well known, the White House moved swiftly-if clumsily (and apparently illegally)-to retaliate.

    It was clear from the start that Vice President Dick Cheney and Kemosabe (Amer. Indian for "Scotter") Libby, as well as Karl Rove, were taking the lead in this operation to make an object lesson of Wilson and his wife.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/mcgovern10202005.html

    But there is abundant evidence that senior White House officials were aware of the CIA's doubts regarding the Niger story long before the State of the Union. Nearly a year earlier, in February 2002, the CIA had dispatched former Ambassador Joseph Wilson to Niger to investigate the claim about uranium purchases. When the CIA debriefed him in March, his findings were emphatic: As Wilson explained in a New York Times op-ed on July 6, "It did not take long to conclude that it was highly doubtful that any such transaction had ever taken place." CIA Director George Tenet claimed on July 11 that Wilson was sent to Niger by junior nonproliferation experts at the CIA acting "on their own initiative" and that senior administration officials were unaware of his mission. But this is not true. Wilson was told by CIA officials that the mission had been specifically requested by the office of the vice president. Indeed, Dick Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, told Time magazine that Cheney had "asked a question about the implication of the [uranium] report." And, as Wilson tells The New Republic, "When an executive agency is tasked to find something out and it gets an answer, it goes back to the person who requested it." For the White House to suggest that Cheney's office was unaware of the results of Wilson's inquiry strains credulity.

    Moreover, there is strong evidence that the CIA clearly conveyed its doubts about the Niger allegation to the White House on more than one occasion prior to the State of the Union. When Bush wanted to include the claim in an October 7, 2002, speech in Cincinnati, Tenet personally intervened, imploring Condoleezza Rice's National Security Council (NSC) deputy, Stephen Hadley, to cut the allegation from the speech, which he did. The idea that no one involved with the State of the Union was aware of this earlier, emphatic intervention is implausible. And when the latter speech was being written, the CIA again raised questions about the Niger assertion. According to The New York Times, when NSC proliferation staffer Robert G. Joseph called his CIA counterpart, Alan Foley, to ask about including the allegation in the State of the Union, Foley told Joseph the CIA was not confident about the information.

    http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030728&s=editorial072803

    Indict Vice President Cheney. Put him under oath.

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 4:08pm

  11. That story about Halliburton acquiring the asbestos liabilities of Dresser Industries raises an interesting point...

    Cheney KNEW that Dresser had the most massive liability issue on planet earth (he had to have known) yet decided to pay good money to bring Dresser's problems under Halliburton's tent.

    This raises the question...who were the largest shareholders of Dresser - in need of a lifeboat to save their own personal bacon? Anyone named Bush? Anyone named Carlyle?

    The deal went like this:

    Cheney agrees for Halliburton to take on the Dresser asbestos liability.

    It is determined that Bush and Cheney will be (s)elected, and that the PNAC plan will be implemented - using 9/11 as the essential pretext.

    Ken Lay plays his role using his Enron smoke and mirrors tactics to create a faux energy crisis in California, causing the public to demand an energy-savvy administration be elected.

    With the asbestos liability and other matters hanging in the balance, the election of 2000 simply had to be rigged in order for the plan to go in to effect.

    Following the appointment of Bush and Cheney, the secret energy planning meeting established which oil companies would reap the rewards of the pending invasion of Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran.

    The timing and the pretext were predetermined, and 9/11 was greenlighted for 9/11/2001. Cheney outsourced the implementation to Mossad, and ran the show from his bunker on D Day under the cover of preplanned drills simulating the exact attack that was proscribed, with NORAD as coconspirator. At least 50 administration officials and countless foreign agents were in on it.

    Once the entire charade was concluded, the Administration generally, and Cheney specifically, had every reason in the world to blame Iraq.

    The Afghanistan mission could not provide Halliburton with enough revenue to offset the massive asbestos liability claim. Iraq and Iran are essential wars in order to provide cover for the infusion of the billion of TAX DOLLARS necessary to both profit Halliburton for its actual work AND cover the massive asbestos liability claims.

    Now you know why Halliburton was awarded the contracts without the need to bid for them. This was all prearranged.

    NOTE: Private enterprise pushed its legal/financial obligations onto tax payers using war as the excuse.

    The asbestos liability claims of Dresser Industries were ultimately paid by you and me, and our troops in the field, all to ensure that the investors in Dresser didn't take the multibillion dollar loss.

    Just one piece of a very large chessboard.

    Hang them for TREASON.

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 4:08pm

  12. "U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson said the Bush administration last year told him and 75 other senators that Iraq not only had weapons of mass destruction, but they had the means to deliver them to East Coast cities." The White House directed questions about the matter to the Department of Defense (who had no comment), despite the fact that the President himself had made a similar claim in a speech on 10/7/02. Nelson said the senators were told Iraq had both biological and chemical weapons, notably anthrax, and it could deliver them to cities along the Eastern seaboard via unmanned aerial vehicles, commonly known as drones.

    Cheney himself told Meet the Press, "We know that [Saddam] has a long-standing relationship with the al-Qaeda organization."

    Cheney, who in the rush to war six days before invasion, told Meet the Press without proof that "Iraq has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."

    When confronted with a report from the International Atomic Energy Agency that directly contradicted him, he said simply "[IAEA Director] Elbaradei is, frankly, wrong." (Cheney was since forced to correct his statements).

    http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=38330...

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 4:09pm

  13. Cheney was in the Washington bunker, while Bush was at the school.He was in command. Scholars for 911 Truth point out http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/... that Secretary of Transportation, Mineta Confirm this. Others point out he was also conducting numerous military drills that day that did confuse land workers.

    Mineta's testimony is devastating," observed James H. Fetzer, Ph.D., McKnight Professor at the University of Minnesota. Fetzer is the founder and co-chair of the scholars' society, which recently joined with Judicial Watch in calling for release of documents, films and videos, and physical evidence withheld from the public by the administration. "It pulls the plug on the Commission's contention there was no advance warning that the Pentagon was going to be hit."

    According to Secretary Mineta's testimony, which is in the public domain, when he (Mineta) arrived at an underground bunker at the White House (known as the Presidential Emergency Operations Center), the Vice President was in charge. "During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon", he stated, "there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, 'The plane is 50 miles out.' 'The plane is 30 miles out.'

    "And when it got down to, 'The plane is 10 miles out,'" Mineta continued, "the young man also said to the Vice President, 'Do the orders still stand?' And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, 'Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?'" One way to construe these remarks could be that the orders were to shoot down the plane.

    The scholars suggest that that is an implausible interpretation. The Pentagon, they observe, may be the most heavily defended building in the world. If the orders had been to "shoot it down," then no doubt it would have been shot down. Moreover, there would have been no apparent reason for the young man to have expressed concern over whether or not "the orders still stand." Shooting it down, under the circumstances, would have been the thing to do.

    "The only reasonable interpretation of the orders," Fetzer observed, "is that the incoming aircraft should not be shot down, which would have been an obvious source of anxiety for an aide. Since it contradicts the official story about the Pentagon," he added, "it had to be suppressed and was not even included in The 9/11 Commission Report." And other scholars, including Professor David Ray Griffin of Claremont Graduate University, have drawn the same conclusion.

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 4:09pm

  14. In her testimony, Rice said:

    "No one could have foreseen the hijacking of commercial aircraft and using them as missiles, flying them into buildings."

    On the morning of 9/11, Vice President Cheney, in concert with NORAD, was running a drill to simulate the hijacking of commercial aircraft and using them as missiles flying them into buildings.

    LIARS.

    GUILTY LIARS.

    GUILTY OF TREASON, HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS.

    GUILTY OF 9/11

    THEY ALL KNEW.

    THEY DID IT!

    I M P E A C H ! ! !

    I M P E A C H ! ! !

    I M P E A C H ! ! !

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 4:10pm

  15. See, I knew it wasn't that Karl Rove wasn't guilty, or that Fitzgerald was a bad prosecutor....it was the Israelis!

    Posted by PLUNGER 06/13/2006 @ 4:07pm | ignore this person

    Posted by Mask at 06/13/2006 @ 4:11pm

  16. BEFORE 9/11 – CHENEY CREATED A PLAN TO SELL OFF IRAQ'S OIL.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stm

    BUT HOW COULD THAT BE – WHY PLAN SOMETHING YOU DON'T CONTROL?

    STOP.

    THINK.

    REMEMBER THE ENERGY MEETINGS WITH KEN LAY AND OTHERS?

    WHAT WAS THE BIG SECRET THEY WERE KEEPING?

    THE INVASION OF IRAQ WAS THE BIG SECRET THEY WERE KEEPING.

    THE OTHER SECRET WAS THE PRETEXT.

    THE PRETEXT FOR THE INVASION OF IRAQ.

    THE PRETEXT.

    THE PRETEXT.

    9/11.

    CHENEY DID IT.

    PNAC members became deeply entrenched in many powerful and strategic positions once George Bush was installed as President. Clearly, the plan could now become a reality. But, how?

    Here's how: The PNAC plan openly called for a "transformation" of the U.S. military into an imperialistic force of global domination. That was more easily said than done. The American people would have to go along with the idea, and that was a problem, but not an insurmountable one. Read the next line very, very carefully:

    "The process of transformation," the plan said, "is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event--like a new Pearl Harbor."

    Let that sink in: like a new Pearl Harbor…like a new Pearl Harbor….like 9/11. Is there any question that 9/11 constituted a catastrophic and catalyzing event very similar to Pearl Harbor? Is there any question that the PNAC plan for war against Iraq became feasible only because of 9/11? Is there any question at all that PNAC got its new Pearl Harbor exactly at the right moment in history?

    They effectively pulled off a coup d'Etat, by passing Congressional scrutiny, installing the military industrial fascist government they have today. Allied with the globalist elite they are destroying America and the Constitution.

    ROLL THEM BACK!

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 4:13pm

  17. US DOMESTIC GOVERNMENT SPONSORED TERROR AGAINST THE CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES.

    Daschle: Congress Denied Bush War Powers AND DOMESTIC SPYING in U.S.

    By Barton Gellman Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, December 23, 2005; Page A04

    The Bush administration requested, and Congress rejected, war-making authority "in the United States" in negotiations over the joint resolution passed days after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, according to an opinion article by former Senate majority leader Thomas A. Daschle (D-S.D.) in today's Washington Post.

    Daschle's disclosure challenges a central legal argument offered by the White House in defense of the National Security Agency's warrantless wiretapping of U.S. citizens and permanent residents. It suggests that Congress refused explicitly to grant authority that the Bush administration now asserts is implicit in the resolution.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/22/AR2...

    And then...a few weeks later...

    W A S H I N G T O N, Nov. 1 A group of military scientists is feverishly examining the microscopic spores of anthrax sent to Sen. Tom Daschle for clues to a mystery that could have profound implications for the United States and its ongoing war on terror: Who made it?

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92006&page=1......

    REMEMBER THE ANTHRAX ATTACKS AGAINST CONGRESS AND THE MEDIA?

    US DOMESTIC GOVERNMENT SPONSORED TERROR AGAINST THE CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES.

    GOOGLE: "FALSE FLAG TERROR"

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 4:13pm

  18. We know by the statements of Fitzgerald that the administration has obstructed the investigation (if there was no wrong doing why the lies and contradictory statements?)--so far, Libby has been caught lying to the prosecutor, the rest of the gang has managed to effectively cover their tracks. This may be a legal victory for these thugs, but it hardly vindicates them in any ethical sense: the CIA agent was exposed for political motives and the information came from the inner circle of BushCo.

    Posted by Oustbush at 06/13/2006 @ 4:14pm

  19. http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html

    Creeping Fascism

    The voices of the past, on Recognizing the Unrecognizable…

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 4:16pm

  20. Plunger, you scare me. Can anyone say, "off the deep end"!

    Mask, I wholeheartedly agree with your points

    Fukulibz, good stuff, but don't get them too riled, they throw nasty tantrums!

    The rest of the left including Nichols, I told you that you were gettin' all giddy for nothin', Ha Ha! So, like Mask says, move on to Cheney.

    Rove to the lunatic left: " you can't touch this "!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 4:32pm

  21. Posted by BARRY25 06/13/2006 @ 4:32pm | ignore this person

    PLUNGE only good if you glean some humor from 3000 cut & pastes from www.jewscontrolyourmind.org...but little else.

    LIBZ just trying to get people pissed off.

    I, on the other hand, am just fascinated by the REPLAY OF HISTORY...."File-gate", "Travel-gate", "Kathleen Willey", "Ron Brown"...all going to "bring down Clinton and his minions" we were told by Limbaugh and others....and fizzled into nothing.

    And now....the Other Side taking their whack at "Whack-A-Scandal Mole"....even throwing in another impeachment!

    Posted by Mask at 06/13/2006 @ 4:41pm

  22. Barry:

    Who was behind the Anthrax attacks?

    Why don't you know? Do you care?

    As for 9/11...

    Google: Cheney NORAD Mineta

    Do you care?

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 4:42pm

  23. The A-3 Skywarrior that hit the Pentagon was owned by Raytheon.

    It was guided by Sysplan's (FTS) technology.

    It intercepted AA 77 and shadowed it so closely so as to appear to be a single aircraft on radar.

    AA 77 crashed in a field in Virginia and was dealt with quietly.

    The A-3 continued the mission, as evidenced by Mr. Mineta when he arrived at Cheney's Command Bunker in time to hear him barking orders to his subordinate about the approaching "plane." "The orders still stand!"

    The silver A-3 was painted with the American Airlines logo - a piece of which is part of the debris that was photographed outside the Pentagon on the lawn.

    The outer half of the wings sheered off on impact, because these wings were designed with hinges to fold up for storage on the deck of an aircraft carrier.

    Pieces of the wings were visible outside the Pentagon, and were quickly hidden from view.

    This was a building full of defense specialist who instantly recognized the aroma of explosives on the scene in the aftermath.

    No cell phone calls were made from any flights on 9/11. That was and remains a physical impossibility.

    The explosion you see in the video is NOT fuel from the aircraft.

    This A-3 was converted into a missile itself.

    The "plane" is a "missle."

    Against all protocol (and the law), the lawn of the Pentagon became a hive of activity as Government employees scurried to taint a crime scene (and the site of what would typically result in an FAA investigation), removing all essential evidence.

    9/11 was an operation of the US Government in concert with Israel and The Crown - with the complicity of those at the highest levels of NORAD, NSA, CIA, FBI and other agencies.

    For a list of the criminals, follow the money, the "Indictments," the "Retirements," the "Promotions," and the Medal Of Freedom Award Winners.

    Hundreds were in on it...thousands know the truth.

    Now you do.

    CNN Correspondent Jamie McIntyre claimed on live TV last week that he photographed some of the debris, including the "cockpit" found outside of the building in the immediate aftermath. He said this in as part of the Government/Media Orchestrated PsyOps event which accompanied the release of the "smoking missile" video - all in a carefully-scripted effort to tell the viewer that they were seeing a 757 on the video that WAS NOT THERE.

    Let's see those crime scene photos on CNN, Jamie. Let's see that A-3 cockpit photo you took.

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 4:44pm

  24. http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/raytheon-connection-to-9-11

    Americans (too many) do not know that Raytheon executives were killed on 9-11, or at least wound up permanently missing, which may be a more accurate way of saying it. It is who wound up missing that is most interesting.

    This is an excerpt of the email we received and is information that we knew as of the issuance of the flight manifests for all four of the planes allegedly involved in 9-11:

    Subject: Raytheon and 9/11

    OK, I'm not gonna say anything here, except to let you read the evidence and then you can tell me what you think. (These are people who supposedly died on 9/11.) Mike

    Raytheon and 9/11

    2001-09-11 Stanley Hall Raytheon Director of Electronic warfare program management. Raytheon did the retrofit of the A-3 that hit the Pentagon, where Bush claimed Flight 77 hit it. Disappeared on American airlines Flight 77, the one that supposedly hit the Pentagon but did not.

    2001-09-11 Peter Gay Raytheon VP of Electronic Systems on special assignment at the El Segundo, CA division office where the Global Hawk UAV remote control system is made. Raytheon did the retrofit of the A-3 that hit the Pentagon, where Bush claimed Flight 77 hit it. Disappeared on American airlines Flight 11, the one that supposedly hit the North World Trade Tower I.

    2001-09-11 Kenneth Waldie Raytheon Senior Quality Control for Electronic Systems. Raytheon did the retrofit of the A-3 that hit the Pentagon, where Bush claimed Flight 77 hit it. Disappeared on American airlines Flight 11, the one that supposedly hit the North World Trade Tower I.

    2001-09-11 David Kovalcin Raytheon Senior Mechanical Engineer for Electronic Systems. Raytheon did the retrofit of the A-3 that hit the Pentagon, where Bush claimed Flight 77 hit it. Disappeared on American airlines Flight 11, the one that supposedly hit the North World Trade Tower I.

    2001-09-11 Herbert Homer Raytheon Corporate Executive working with the Department of Defense. Raytheon did the retrofit of the A-3 that hit the Pentagon, where Bush claimed Flight 77 hit it. Disappeared on United airlines Flight 175, the one that supposedly hit the South World Trade Tower II.

    These are not only the type of people but they are the people that would be assigned to UAV type projects involving Mode 4 and Mode 5 upgrades. Why would they be in Boston and those planes coming from that direction and from north of Manhattan Island?

    That 16 foot tunnel through three rings of the Pentagon is only made by a directional blast weapon. Rumsfeld has even slipped up and mentioned the missile that hit the Pentagon.

    Some have seen the Pentagon parking lot camera video and the white trail of smoke. Jets do now leave white trails of smoke at sea level, but Thiokol powered AGMs do, at all attitudes.

    A Real 9-11 Commission should have certain Hughes and Raytheon parties summoned for questioning, as well as those that follow:

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 4:46pm

  25. No misery and no pain on the left, sorry NEOCONS.

    I think the misery is yours as you gaze upon the GOP disasters ranging from enormous government debt to cash giveaways to Oil Companies already bloated with 100 billion dollars in profits.

    The misery from failing to wall off the waters around New Orleans while promising to wall off Mexicans from all of the entire southern US border.

    Misery from hating gays more than hating immigrants.

    And, the misery of the 95% who won't see a penny from a repeal of the "death tax" while exacting HUGE cuts in education and health benefits for the middle class to pay for it.

    Yes, conservatives have a lot to be miserable about.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 4:58pm

  26. Because, you are right, of course. the estate tax repeal went nowhere, but the gazillionaires will surely try again, and the wannabe's will again be cheering them on.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/13/2006 @ 5:05pm

  27. Zero, stop cheering when dems are acting cravenly.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/13/2006 @ 5:06pm

  28. "I am very much mistaken in all my critical comments.

    Posted by ZERO 06/13/2006 @ 5:10pm"

    The 1st accurate thing yove ever said...congratulations

    Posted by fukulibz at 06/13/2006 @ 5:12pm

  29. Cant you just feel how the TRAITOROUS LIBZ are just seething with disgust....Just warms your heart doesnt it!!!

    THE LIBERAL CRACKUP IS A BEAUTIFUL SIGHT TO BEHOLD

    Posted by fukulibz at 06/13/2006 @ 5:15pm

  30. JOHANNES:

    It's important to note that the death tax would be repealed probably 10 years ago, before the majority of Americans fully became aware of what a sham "fiscal conservativism" is.

    Whether it's Bush aiding and abbedding ENRON's fleecing of Americans while; cutting taxes only for the wealthiest of Americans; or invading Middle East countries to boost Oil Exec bonuses; everyone is now aware of the heartless and rapacious scam that defines conservative politics.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 5:18pm

  31. Bullshit and Blather spewed by another nitwit from the MINORITY party

    Posted by fukulibz at 06/13/2006 @ 5:20pm

  32. Isn't it great how a major rightward move by the Democrats,

    by SOME democrats. do not tar all dems with the same broad brush. and you're enjoying this too much.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/13/2006 @ 5:22pm

  33. Because, do not use the misnomer death tax. no dead person has ever been charged the estate tax, and no dead person ever paid the estate tax, of that I am certain.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/13/2006 @ 5:24pm

  34. FUKLIBZ/LL/RIO are just a few of the desperate and absolutely paranoid Americans born and bred of fear, violence and arrogance.

    Gun hugging, gay bashing, middle class robbing, Constitution stomping Republicans, and conservatives. Huddled and praying with their deluded Evangelical conservative hamsters, talking to Jesus, having full on conversation with "The Lord".

    These conservative groups are now bouncing into each other, running out of Americans to hate. They can't point to torture and claim it's wrong. They can't point to CIA leaks and claim they're wrong. They can't point to religious extremism and claim it's wrong.

    Conservatives have so fully embraced everything we now know to be wrong; they are completely at a loss as to how to make sense of their world.

    Pity the conservative; without an enemy except for themselves.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 5:27pm

  35. JR and ZERO, We are calling it the "dynasty tax" now.

    Posted by ILOVEPHYSICS at 06/13/2006 @ 5:30pm

  36. The "death tax" is what it is...

    I think embracing and emphasizing that this tax targets people who don't need it, specifically dead people, it is a good thing.

    Progressives as with liberals should look for the opennings that baseless lies from the right invariably create.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 5:33pm

  37. Death Tax.

    "You Can't Take It When You Go".

    "Don't Need Cash Where You're Goin'" Tax.

    Anything else....?

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 5:40pm

  38. Emphasize that the Dead who don't need it pay this tax.

    Why tax the middle class? Why tax the rich? Tax the dead!

    If possible, the dead can fight our wars, too!!!

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 5:41pm

  39. OK folks you started it. the estate tax is a tax on the heirs, that is the estate in legal terms. the estate tax is a tax on the windfall this heir is experiencing, and for this person it is taxed for the first time. so that lie is disposed of. if you or I win the lottery, that money is heavily taxed. the estate tax is no different, it's a windfall tax.

    now to the dead person: if that dead person would take all his money and have it converted to a solid gold coffin and mausoleum, in other words take it with him, no tax is owed and no tax is collected.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/13/2006 @ 5:41pm

  40. I doubt those dead people ever wanted their ( already overtaxed ) money stolen from their loved ones. But hey, even though they earned it, the gov't, not the indiviaual, should control whom it should be given too. It's the liberal way. Gov't knows best. It's like that in Cuba ( the left's utopia ), and just look at how happy their people are. I mean, Americans are flooding over their borders to finally get a taste of freedom and properity! Damn freaks!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 5:42pm

  41. She is one of their top dogs if not their top dog, and apparently she is driving the party establishment.

    no she ain't.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/13/2006 @ 5:42pm

  42. As it is, the brain-dead have run Washington the last 5 1/2 years. The dead should pay our taxes AND invade countries for oil. But if not both, certainly the first.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 5:43pm

  43. Barry you're a nasty buffoon and not worth engaging in debate.sorry

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/13/2006 @ 5:43pm

  44. And you are a shit for brains nitwit thats not worth me farting in your direction....

    Begone...I put you on ignore

    Posted by fukulibz at 06/13/2006 @ 5:45pm

  45. If I earned it, I should be able to give it to my kids without it being taxed again! Whatever happened to the rights of the individual? Why can't I decide where my already taxed dollars go? Aren't you lefties all for "individuals rights and freedoms"? Pathetic!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 5:45pm

  46. BARRY - yes, the liberal way is to tax the dead. The conservative way is to not tax at all and go into debt.

    I put my money on the philosophy that strives to balance the books through taxation; not the philosophy that pretends there are no books, and that voodoo-economics can bring prosperity.

    But, like talking to Jesus, you conservatives delude yourself and believe whatever crap you want. The majority of Americans are done with you.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 5:47pm

  47. JR, it took you this long to figure out BARRY? You're slipping...

    Posted by ILOVEPHYSICS at 06/13/2006 @ 5:47pm

  48. Fukulibz, don't put him on ignore. It's the tactic they always use, and quite an immature tactic at that. See your enemy, know your enemy, and fart in the direction of your enemy if the situation calls for it! I don't know if it will do any good though! Ever stand next to a hippie lib? They don't shower!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 5:49pm

  49. Physics, I erased my ignores, thought I'd mingle with the rabid partisans. turns out, some are not a bad tussle, but others, well...I am unable to penetrate the verbal diarrhea of Rese and Plunger and the less said about fuk this or that the better.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/13/2006 @ 5:52pm

  50. BARRY/FUK - you guys should stick to only cursing and hurling epithets.

    Because, that is about as much sense as the bold and smart policies you've had honest Americans chasing these last 5 years.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 5:52pm

  51. So True Barry....and yes I have stood next to quit a few....A nausea inducing experience for sure for so many reasons

    Posted by fukulibz at 06/13/2006 @ 5:52pm

  52. Ever stand next to a hippie lib? They don't shower!

    that was the last straw, thanks

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/13/2006 @ 5:53pm

  53. Zero, did any dems vote against? why not tell us about them?

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/13/2006 @ 5:54pm

  54. No matter how you spin it, the facts are there for any sane person to see. TAX CUTS STIMULATE THE ECONOMY AND INCREASE REVENUES! Now, if you want to talk about our national debt and the fact that BUSH spends like a drunken Kennedy...I mean drunken liberal....I mean drunken sailor, then I might agree with you. But, the debt and spending has absolutely nothing to do with the FACT that, again, TAX CUTS STIMULATE THE ECONOMY AND INCREASE REVENUES! Now, come back to reality, stay out of denial, stop the hate, grow a sack, and listen to me and learn!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 5:54pm

  55. Here here

    Posted by fukulibz at 06/13/2006 @ 5:57pm

  56. to JR: RESE and PLUNGER wear me out! I cannot read 10,000 word posts - I don't have the patience.

    Posted by ILOVEPHYSICS at 06/13/2006 @ 5:58pm

  57. I mean, the balls on you Republicans have to try to narrowly define marriage in the US Constitution.

    What a bunch of homophobic, Constitution stomping assholes you are!

    Not just balls, but friggin' baloons!

    You are too busy running up the national debt to worry about important Constitutional measures like a balanced budget Amendment. No, that would be too responsible, better stick to stupid non-issues like marriage.

    Better stick to immigrant bashing, too. It suits you conservatives much more than rational thought and responsibility.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 6:00pm

  58. You know you're a lunatic lefty when all the Dem's disagree with you. Dont' you see, you're just Marxist outcasts and you're pissed at me about it! It's not my fault! You put yourselves in this position! How come you lefties never want to take personal responsibility? Bush didn't make you poor, hateful, or stupid....YOU DID( or maybe it was the ACID)!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 6:01pm

  59. Can we say MINORITY PARTY??? I believe it says it all

    Posted by fukulibz at 06/13/2006 @ 6:02pm

  60. Correction nimrod: ILLEGAL immigrant bashing! You see how the left changes the language of an argument they can't win! It's in chapter 2 of the Liberal Handbook, titled :"When backed into a corner like a rat...Change the language of the argument"!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 6:04pm

  61. The economy has gone nowhere since the GOP stole the election in 2000. Bush has given away 600 billion in tax revenue, yet, the economy has grown by approximately 60 billion dollars over that same period!!!

    Hey you conservative morons - what growth???

    It didn't work from 1980-1992, and it didn't work from 2000 to today.

    Spend-but-dont-tax DOESN'T WORK!!!!

    The GDP would be 100 billion dollars GREATER without the tax cuts. The stealing of money from the middle class has destroyed most local American economies across the nation!

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 6:06pm

  62. There is no left-wing media bias! After all, just look at how the language of the media has changed in the last 10 years concerning ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION: first it was ILLEGAL ALIEN then ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT then UNDOCUMENTED ALIEN then UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT then UNDOCUMENTED WORKER and now it's just IMMIGRANT. Next it will be UNDOCUMENTED CITIZEN! Insane!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 6:09pm

  63. it must be said, Because, and you're saying it, multitudes cheer. well I do anyway.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/13/2006 @ 6:10pm

  64. to JR: RESE and PLUNGER wear me out! I cannot read 10,000 word posts - I don't have the patience.

    Posted by ILOVEPHYSICS 06/13/2006 @ 5:58pm

    Karl relies on that.

    OK,

    Google: Cheney NORAD Mineta

    Explain it.

    Google: "Dancing Israelis"

    Explain it.

    Explain why the anthrax attacks have gone away without investigation.

    Explain why you don't care.

    Were you able to get through all of that without a rest?

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 6:11pm

  65. Barry, like I said, your cursing is about as much sense as the rest of your senselessness.

    Immigrants are only illegal if the US government declares them, as such. Their status is simply paperwork. Immigrants haven't compromised national security and harmed Americans as the CIA leaks by Cheney and Rove has, and neither of them are considered criminals, either.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 6:11pm

  66. BECAUSEYOUSUCKITSO: please check federal revenues of taxes in dollars from 2003 to now before you embarrass yourself anymore. I'm just givin' you the facts! Don't hate the messenger!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 6:12pm

  67. They have destroyed the education, criminal justice and health care systems in Ca. and are doing so in other states also! 29% of incarcerated criminals in federal prison are ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS! They only come here to work!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 6:14pm

  68. Clearly, as Republicans justify automatic weapons sales while simultaneously claiming to be tough on crime and terrorism, everyone else can see the lying hypocracy of the policy. Only a shiftless Republican can stand on the soap-box with the NRA while claiming to make America safer - and actually in their own twisted mind, believe it.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 6:17pm

  69. As a liberal, you should know that any land, natiopn, country etc. can only handle so much growth ( what about the environment? )! So, any sane nation must have an immigration policy! WE HAVE ONE! And many sane law-abiding people wait in line and respect the immigration laws of this country only to be spat upon by the lawless ILLEGALS, looney liberals, and the greedy REpublican corporations and businesses that hire them. ALL should be incarcerated for these crimes!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 6:18pm

  70. very good, Plunger, now let's try stringing together a few sentences in your own words.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/13/2006 @ 6:19pm

  71. Barry:

    Who was behind the Anthrax attacks?

    Why don't you know? Do you care?

    As for 9/11...

    Google: Cheney NORAD Mineta

    Do you care?

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 6:20pm

  72. you're certainly being very comprehensive, Because.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/13/2006 @ 6:20pm

  73. Barry, what do you care about Education System? You don't think it should be federally funded anyway!

    Education should be private, paid for by income earned by family members and/or friends willing to pay the tuition. That's capatilism. That's democracy. That's fiscal conservaitism.

    And, if the immigrants can't afford tuition, they can't get educated. Right? I mean, that is the conservative philosophy on education, right?

    Thus, the demise of public education is what you want, expect, and hope for to push forth your tuition redemption programs, right??????

    Fucking hypocrit.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 6:20pm

  74. Uh Excuse me Liberal Nitwits...When can B.J. Clinton and his lovely wife Hillary Rotten ever point to 4.3% unemployment????

    Liberals are good at 2 things....Hating America and re-writing history

    Posted by fukulibz at 06/13/2006 @ 6:21pm

  75. Although I don't justify the sale of fully automatic weapons, Republicans ( I'm not voting for them in the next election because of their sell-out position on ILLEGAL immigration) ARE far tougher on crime! Can you justify the ACLU defending you're friends over there at NAMBLA? Or Ted Kennedy and the other lefty psycho's fighting laws like Jessica's law in defense of pedophiles? Pure human scum!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 6:22pm

  76. very good, Plunger, now let's try stringing together a few sentences in your own words.

    Posted by JOHANNESROLF 06/13/2006 @ 6:19pm

    These are my own words...

    That story about Halliburton acquiring the asbestos liabilities of Dresser Industries raises an interesting point...

    Cheney KNEW that Dresser had the most massive liability issue on planet earth (he had to have known) yet decided to pay good money to bring Dresser's problems under Halliburton's tent.

    This raises the question...who were the largest shareholders of Dresser - in need of a lifeboat to save their own personal bacon? Anyone named Bush? Anyone named Carlyle?

    The deal went like this:

    Cheney agrees for Halliburton to take on the Dresser asbestos liability.

    It is determined that Bush and Cheney will be (s)elected, and that the PNAC plan will be implemented - using 9/11 as the essential pretext.

    Ken Lay plays his role using his Enron smoke and mirrors tactics to create a faux energy crisis in California, causing the public to demand an energy-savvy administration be elected.

    With the asbestos liability and other matters hanging in the balance, the election of 2000 simply had to be rigged in order for the plan to go in to effect.

    Following the appointment of Bush and Cheney, the secret energy planning meeting established which oil companies would reap the rewards of the pending invasion of Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran.

    The timing and the pretext were predetermined, and 9/11 was greenlighted for 9/11/2001. Cheney outsourced the implementation to Mossad, and ran the show from his bunker on D Day under the cover of preplanned drills simulating the exact attack that was proscribed, with NORAD as coconspirator. At least 50 administration officials and countless foreign agents were in on it.

    Once the entire charade was concluded, the Administration generally, and Cheney specifically, had every reason in the world to blame Iraq.

    The Afghanistan mission could not provide Halliburton with enough revenue to offset the massive asbestos liability claim. Iraq and Iran are essential wars in order to provide cover for the infusion of the billion of TAX DOLLARS necessary to both profit Halliburton for its actual work AND cover the massive asbestos liability claims.

    Now you know why Halliburton was awarded the contracts without the need to bid for them. This was all prearranged.

    NOTE: Private enterprise pushed its legal/financial obligations onto tax payers using war as the excuse.

    The asbestos liability claims of Dresser Industries were ultimately paid by you and me, and our troops in the field, all to ensure that the investors in Dresser didn't take the multibillion dollar loss.

    Just one piece of a very large chessboard.

    Hang them for TREASON.

    The A-3 Skywarrior that hit the Pentagon was owned by Raytheon.

    It was guided by Sysplan's (FTS) technology.

    It intercepted AA 77 and shadowed it so closely so as to appear to be a single aircraft on radar.

    AA 77 crashed in a field in Virginia and was dealt with quietly.

    The A-3 continued the mission, as evidenced by Mr. Mineta when he arrived at Cheney's Command Bunker in time to hear him barking orders to his subordinate about the approaching "plane." "The orders still stand!"

    The silver A-3 was painted with the American Airlines logo - a piece of which is part of the debris that was photographed outside the Pentagon on the lawn.

    The outer half of the wings sheered off on impact, because these wings were designed with hinges to fold up for storage on the deck of an aircraft carrier.

    Pieces of the wings were visible outside the Pentagon, and were quickly hidden from view.

    This was a building full of defense specialist who instantly recognized the aroma of explosives on the scene in the aftermath.

    No cell phone calls were made from any flights on 9/11. That was and remains a physical impossibility.

    The explosion you see in the video is NOT fuel from the aircraft.

    This A-3 was converted into a missile itself.

    The "plane" is a "missle."

    Against all protocol (and the law), the lawn of the Pentagon became a hive of activity as Government employees scurried to taint a crime scene (and the site of what would typically result in an FAA investigation), removing all essential evidence.

    9/11 was an operation of the US Government in concert with Israel and The Crown - with the complicity of those at the highest levels of NORAD, NSA, CIA, FBI and other agencies.

    For a list of the criminals, follow the money, the "Indictments," the "Retirements," the "Promotions," and the Medal Of Freedom Award Winners.

    Hundreds were in on it...thousands know the truth.

    Now you do.

    CNN Correspondent Jamie McIntyre claimed on live TV last week that he photographed some of the debris, including the "cockpit" found outside of the building in the immediate aftermath. He said this in as part of the Government/Media Orchestrated PsyOps event which accompanied the release of the "smoking missile" video - all in a carefully-scripted effort to tell the viewer that they were seeing a 757 on the video that WAS NOT THERE.

    Let's see those crime scene photos on CNN, Jamie. Let's see that A-3 cockpit photo you took.

    $100 million my ass...Cheney's worth billions.

    He is the enabler of all of the windfall oil wealth created since 1999. He was in the midst of the scheme to defraud California using Ken Lay's Enron and has been raking in the profits ever since.

    Even prior to that, he did the Bush/Carlyle group a favor by absorbing all of the billions of dollars worth of Asbestos liabilities under the Halliburton banner when he was CEO and bought out Dresser Industries.

    Everyone involved in the scheme went short Halliburton for the trip south on the "news" of the Asbestos case against them, then came the "energy crisis scheme" designed to push oil prices higher and predispose the electorate to an OIL ADMINISTRATION.

    Then came the SECRET meetings with the oil and Gas CEOs and Alan Greenspan to plan the economic aftermath of the planned 9/11 attack - which Cheeney was IN CHARGE OF IMPLEMENTING.

    Once Greenspan put the floor in the market, it was all hands on deck for the Halliburton stock rebound and the big payoff for those original investors in Dresser who would otherwise have been killed of Dresser Industries had been forced to take the entire Asbestos liability hit.

    They are ALL criminals. This was an attack against our country and a preplanned war - all designed to ensure that the rich not only remained so, but became richer - and more powerful.

    Got Facism?

    Cheney was at the heart of it all. NORAD and the NSA and Mossad were in on it with him. Israel and Big oil got their "New Pearl Harbor" - just as the PNAC proscribed.

    IMPEACH - ARREST - HANG

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 6:22pm

  77. Fukulibz, very well put! Now sit back and watch the spin!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 6:23pm

  78. These deadbeat NEOCONs tax my patience more.

    I still see Rove in prison and Cheney being electrocuted. -- something about an electronic devise falling into his bathtub or hot-tub… All rather ironically situated for my taste. Thus it really doesn't bother me currently that the humiliation either of them will eventually experience only pales when they find themselves burning hell for eternity. (heheheh)

    Posted by Bushfools at 06/13/2006 @ 6:23pm

  79. Plunger=psycho! Bro, where can I get some of that stuff! Was it grown in Humbolt or somethin'?

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 6:24pm

  80. Plunger=psycho! Bro, where can I get some of that stuff! Was it grown in Humbolt or somethin'?

    Posted by BARRY25 06/13/2006 @ 6:24pm

    If you're going to challenge me, you're obligated to respond directly to direct questions.

    Are these questions too difficult for you to answer?

    Who was behind the Anthrax attacks?

    Why don't you know? Do you care?

    As for 9/11...

    Google: Cheney NORAD Mineta

    Do you care?

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 6:26pm

  81. Bushfools, you seem to have a little bloodlust! I guess the only sympathetic bone in your body belongs to poor MR. Zarqawi? A great man who was a gentle soul until the evil Bush turned him into a Freedom Fighter and then went on to destroy New orleans with his magic wand out of hatred for the black man ( just ask the philosopher, Kanye West ). Not bad work for the village idiot from texas!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 6:27pm

  82. Plunger: who was behind the anthrax attacks? I didn't know anyone was charged or found guilty! Aren't you one of those " innocent until proven guilty" and "due process" people?

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 6:29pm

  83. Bushfools, you're a liberal, so hell doesn't exist, therefore, no one will be burning there!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 6:31pm

  84. I cant express how much it pleases me to see all the traitors so upset with thier panties all twisted up by the fact reality is starting to kick thier little wussie asses all over the place...From sea to shining sea(Calif-50 to Iraq)

    THE LIBERAL CRACKUP IS A BEAUTIFUL SIGHT TO BEHOLD

    Posted by fukulibz at 06/13/2006 @ 6:34pm

  85. If I ever find out who was behind the anthrax attacks, I will care! I just don't know, and neither do you! Furthermore, HALLIBURTON, HALLIBURTOn, HALLIBURTON! You're still stuck on that dead-ender! Try to be consistent and hate on Clinton for giving the evil HALLIBURTON a NO-BID..that's a NO_BID contract in Bosnia( without consulting Congress or the UN) Remeber, no consistency, NO CREDIBILITY!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 6:35pm

  86. Plunger: who was behind the anthrax attacks? I didn't know anyone was charged or found guilty! Aren't you one of those " innocent until proven guilty" and "due process" people?

    Posted by BARRY25 06/13/2006 @ 6:29pm

    Yes I am. And that would require an INVESTIGATION of the parties most likely to be behind it.

    Do you recognize any circumstancial evidence that might point to MOTIVE in the following?

    US DOMESTIC GOVERNMENT SPONSORED TERROR AGAINST THE CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES.

    Daschle: Congress Denied Bush War Powers AND DOMESTIC SPYING in U.S.

    By Barton Gellman Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, December 23, 2005; Page A04

    The Bush administration requested, and Congress rejected, war-making authority "in the United States" in negotiations over the joint resolution passed days after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, according to an opinion article by former Senate majority leader Thomas A. Daschle (D-S.D.) in today's Washington Post.

    Daschle's disclosure challenges a central legal argument offered by the White House in defense of the National Security Agency's warrantless wiretapping of U.S. citizens and permanent residents. It suggests that Congress refused explicitly to grant authority that the Bush administration now asserts is implicit in the resolution.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/22/AR2...

    And then...a few weeks later...

    W A S H I N G T O N, Nov. 1 A group of military scientists is feverishly examining the microscopic spores of anthrax sent to Sen. Tom Daschle for clues to a mystery that could have profound implications for the United States and its ongoing war on terror: Who made it?

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92006&page=1......

    The Mainstream Media and Democratic Senators who opposed both WAR POWERS & WARRANTLESS DOMESTIC WIRETAPS were attacked with Anthrax in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 - and the investigation was STOPPED.

    WTF?

    Do you care?

    Do you admit that I have not only a right to care, but have a good reason to insist that this be investigated fully?

    Wouldn't it be CRAZY not to investigate this?

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 6:37pm

  87. FUKULIBZ, it is a beautiful sight to behold, indeed! It constantly reminds me of the way spoiled children act out when they don't get their way! Even though everyone around them tells them that they are wrong and that no one aggrees with them, they stay stubborn and act out because their selfishness overrides their rational!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 6:38pm

  88. If I ever find out who was behind the anthrax attacks, I will care!

    If I ever find out who was behind 9/11, I will care!

    If I ever find out who was behind lying us into war, I will care!

    If I ever find out who was behind outing a CIA Agent, I will care!

    Barry,

    Facism is the future you deserve.

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 6:39pm

  89. Not as crazy as not investigating ABLE DANGER and the sweet terrorist defending 9-11 co-conspirator Jamie Gorelick ( just kidding on the co-conspirator part). Anyway, I welcome any and all investigations of any administration, but you have no proof of anything and that is my point! Give me names!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 6:41pm

  90. Give me names!

    Posted by BARRY25 06/13/2006 @ 6:41pm

    DOV ZAKEIM

    DOV ZAKHEIM:

    The CEO of Systems Planning's international division, Dov Zakheim, is a long-time DoD and Republican Party insider, and a founding member of the Neoconservative cult. While Bush was still Governor of Texas, Zakheim became one of his closest advisers, counseling him on defense technology and strategic aspects of Middle Eastern affairs. After the 2000 "election," Rummy rewarded Zakheim with a low-profile but strategically important position -- Comptroller, i.e. head money man, of the Defense Department.

    Zakheim also co-authored the Heritage Foundation's infamous tract, "Rebuilding America's Defenses," in which the Bush Administration's entire design for renewed global conquest was laid down a full year prior to 9-11. On page 63, the authors note that timely implementation of their ideas would require "some catastrophic and catalyzing event -- like a new Pearl Harbor."

    see for yourself:

    http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

    Dov S. Zakheim was sworn in as the Under Secretary of Defense (Comptroller) and Chief Financial Officer for the Department of Defense on May 4, 2001.

    Left the Bush Administration in mid-2004 for Booz Allen.

    How Does Zakheim Fit In ?

    He helped mold the Mid-East policy, and controlled the Pentagon purse strings.

    Thanks to him, Israel, and their militia (Turkey), are awash in F-15's, F-16's, and the latest in offensive and defensive missile systems. Israel has a space program, ICBM's, nukes, and lots more.

    Zakheim, who is a dual Israeli/American citizen and a Shul Rabbi, has stalked the halls of US government for 25 yrs. He has set defense policy which influenced Presidents Reagan, Clinton and Bush Sr. and Jr. This rabid Zionist was the controller of the Pentagon when an audit discovered over a trillion dollars was missing.

    Most of Israel's armament was obtained thanks to him. Squads of US F-16 and F-15 were classified as military surplus and sold to Israel at a fraction of their value.

    Zakheim is a rabid Zionist, who carries an Israel passport and is considered to be one of the top members of the secretive Illuminati . He predicts 9/11 and by sheer coincidence the Pentagon is hit by a remote controlled jet (Zakheim's ' SPC ' corporation is the premier company in the field).

    http://www.sysplan.com/Radar/FTS

    During his tenure as controller at the Pentagon from May 4, 2001 to March 10, 2004, over two trillion dollars was unaccounted for.

    Military information is jeopardized, military contractors billed the US for Israeli items, $50 million fighter jets are classified as surplus and the list goes on and on. As the scandal of the missing $2.4 trillion dollars surfaces the Rabbi quickly resigns.

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 6:43pm

  91. Plunger,

    They don't care, really. No soul there, never was, never will be. It's all about coin, surface stuff with them. Paid off to lock jaw on refuse. Chills. They can't get past it. Pardo(n). And it's ok because they've chosen that road. Tao(st).

    Posted by Bushfools at 06/13/2006 @ 6:44pm

  92. Give me names!

    Posted by BARRY25 06/13/2006 @ 6:41pm

    Seated behind Mohammad Atta on 9/11 was an Israeli Mossad agent, Daniel Lewin.

    WHAT ARE THE ODDS?

    STOP.

    THINK.

    Atta was sitting in seat 8D. In front of him were the two brothers, Wael and Walid Al-Shihri. Behind him was his comrade in his final days, 'Abd Al-'Aziz Al-'Omari. To Al-'Omari's left was the Israeli Mossad agent, Daniel Lewin, and right behind him, the man who would kill him, Sattam Al-Suqami.

    In those exact moments, a group of Mossad agents were waiting in Manhattan for the first plane. They had surveillance and filming equipment with them. Meanwhile, F-15 planes were on high alert in Otis air base, 150 miles away, not knowing in which direction to fly.

    It is noteworthy that in those moments, the Mossad agents here, according to eye-witnesses, were dancing and cheering in front of the WTC. The Israelis were arrested in New York. Later, they were moved to Washington, and from there to Israel, and the report was quickly suppressed.

    5 EMPLOYEES OF RAYTHEON WITH EXPERTISE IN UNMANNED AERIAL VEHICLE SYSTEMS DIED ON THREE SEPARATE FLIGHTS ON 9/11

    http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/raytheon-connection-to-9-11

    WHAT ARE THE ODDS?

    STOP.

    THINK.

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 6:47pm

  93. Give me names!

    Posted by BARRY25 06/13/2006 @ 6:41pm

    Here's some names...

    Raytheon and 9/11

    2001-09-11 Stanley Hall Raytheon Director of Electronic warfare program management. Raytheon did the retrofit of the A-3 that hit the Pentagon, where Bush claimed Flight 77 hit it. Disappeared on American airlines Flight 77, the one that supposedly hit the Pentagon but did not.

    2001-09-11 Peter Gay Raytheon VP of Electronic Systems on special assignment at the El Segundo, CA division office where the Global Hawk UAV remote control system is made. Raytheon did the retrofit of the A-3 that hit the Pentagon, where Bush claimed Flight 77 hit it. Disappeared on American airlines Flight 11, the one that supposedly hit the North World Trade Tower I.

    2001-09-11 Kenneth Waldie Raytheon Senior Quality Control for Electronic Systems. Raytheon did the retrofit of the A-3 that hit the Pentagon, where Bush claimed Flight 77 hit it. Disappeared on American airlines Flight 11, the one that supposedly hit the North World Trade Tower I.

    2001-09-11 David Kovalcin Raytheon Senior Mechanical Engineer for Electronic Systems. Raytheon did the retrofit of the A-3 that hit the Pentagon, where Bush claimed Flight 77 hit it. Disappeared on American airlines Flight 11, the one that supposedly hit the North World Trade Tower I.

    2001-09-11 Herbert Homer Raytheon Corporate Executive working with the Department of Defense. Raytheon did the retrofit of the A-3 that hit the Pentagon, where Bush claimed Flight 77 hit it. Disappeared on United airlines Flight 175, the one that supposedly hit the South World Trade Tower II.

    These are not only the type of people but they are the people that would be assigned to UAV type projects involving Mode 4 and Mode 5 upgrades. Why would they be in Boston and those planes coming from that direction and from north of Manhattan Island?

    That 16 foot tunnel through three rings of the Pentagon is only made by a directional blast weapon. Rumsfeld has even slipped up and mentioned the missile that hit the Pentagon.

    Some have seen the Pentagon parking lot camera video and the white trail of smoke. Jets do now leave white trails of smoke at sea level, but Thiokol powered AGMs do, at all attitudes.

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 6:50pm

  94. In other words...The traitorous DIMS suck and will continue to suck

    Posted by fukulibz at 06/13/2006 @ 6:50pm

  95. Oh my god, here we go with the illuminati! It never ends! Just read your last thread and agai, it's a whole lot of nothin'. Sure you point out connections between people, but all polititians are connected in one way or another ( 6 degrees of separation anyone ). Did you know our government was aware that they needed something like pearl harbor to occur in order to act? I guess those weren't actually japanese in those planes, it was innocent black men used as pwns by our government out of it's racist hatred for minorities! So, the strapped these black men into these fighters, painted them and flew them by remote into pearl harbor! They killed 2 birds with one stone! Started a war, and killed some more black men since lynching was out of style by then! It makes sense!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 6:51pm

  96. Barry U Fuk Libz 25

    You have to be 2 of the most pathetic personalities ever to inhabit the same cranial vault in the history of the planet.

    Shit, I'll bet you've got 4 computers (2 per thread) rigged up with spit and bailing wire so that you can wank your own ego to your heart's content. Geez, at least develop a quality control system so that one personality doesn't answer posts directed to the other.

    And do try that ECT. It truly is amazing stuff.

    Posted by skeletonman at 06/13/2006 @ 6:54pm

  97. Barry:

    You asked for names, and I gave you names.

    There are plenty more names that I can provide to you...not that you care...

    Why is it that General Tommy Franks is a rich man?

    How did he become rich?

    Why was it that his wife is flown on private jets every week to shopping sprees?

    Where did the money come from?

    What service was performed, and rewarded?

    Why are US taxpayers footing the bill?

    Tommy and Cathy Franks confirmed this week that they have settled on Harbour Island after zeroing in on South Tampa. They were due to close on a home Friday, Cathy Franks said.

    Cathy Franks said security on the island clinched the decision.

    And they are not alone. The Franks family joins a host of Tampa Bay sports and political celebrities.

    The roll call includes Tampa Bay Buccaneers defensive back John Lynch, his teammate Kenyatta Walker, their bosses Bryan and Joel Glazer, former Buc Chidi Ahanotu and current Tampa Bay Lightning hockey player Vinny Lecavalier.

    Former Tampa Mayor Dick Greco feeds the ducks at a pond near his home on the island. City Attorney Fred Karl can be seen there, as can the daughter of one of Franks' predecessors, retired Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf.

    http://www.sptimes.com/2003/08/03/Tampabay/A_homeland_security_h.sh...

    Where did the money come from?

    Was it from the money stolen by Rumsfeld and Zakheim?

    Payments by Israel perhaps?

    What possible motive might Tommy Franks have to rush to Rumsfeld's defense? Can you say Quid Pro Quo?

    http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/05/franks.wife/...

    2/5/2003

    Sources have told CNN that Franks, the man who would lead U.S. forces in the event of a military strike on Iraq, faces several allegations -- including one that he allowed his wife, Cathy, to be present during discussions of highly classified material.

    The sources also said questions have been raised about whether Franks properly repaid the U.S. government for his wife's travel on military aircraft.

    Franks, the head of U.S. Central Command, has been under investigation for weeks by the Pentagon inspector general's office.

    "I am aware of the investigation and am cooperating with it," Franks said in a brief written statement. "It would not be appropriate to comment on the investigation until it is complete."

    U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld -- who would decide what, if any, disciplinary action Franks would face if any wrongdoing is found -- has taken the unusual step of expressing support for the general before the investigation was completed.

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 6:54pm

  98. Susan Olsen, a conservative author who revealed the sociopathic ways of the Clinton's and whose husband is a gov't official, also perished on 9-11! Since she was critical of Dem's, it only makes sense that Clinton had something to do with 9-11, using your logic! Insane!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 6:55pm

  99. How do you 2 decide who wears the daddy pants on any given day?

    Posted by skeletonman at 06/13/2006 @ 6:55pm

  100. If liberals are soft on crime because of support for ACLU, what does that mean when the GOP supports warrantless wiretaps, CIA leaks, military torture and the NRA?

    Conservatives are not tough on crime; conservates ARE crime.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 6:56pm

  101. should read conservatives ARE criminal....

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 6:56pm

  102. Newsflash, retired generals, politicians, CEO's etc. make BANK on the circuit. Whether it be speeches, media appearances, books etc. They make bank! Insane once again! Have any problem with Marc Rich or Whitewater or William Jefferson to name a few! How about berger stuffing documents into his clothes at the National archives? Regular behavior for a man of his stature or conspiracy? Are you consistent on these issues?

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 6:59pm

  103. Okay, Plunger is insane.

    His conspiracy theories are largely rediculous.

    The problem is, so much of his rantings are factual.

    The stink of impropriety and culpability among the GOP leadership inescapable, even if the many conclusions Plunger comes to (given the facts) are off base.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 7:00pm

  104. Give me names!

    Posted by BARRY25 06/13/2006 @ 6:41pm

    Laurent Murawiec

    Senior Fellow

    Hudson Institute, Washington, D.C. Office

    Laurent Murawiec is a senior fellow with Hudson Institute in Washington D.C. He was a senior international policy analyst with the RAND Corporation until 2002.

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Laurent_Murawiec

    "In the Pentagon, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's team is hoping for a short war. Laurent Murawiec, a military expert from the ultra-conservative Hudson Institute and a Frenchman close to the U.S. hawks, predicted a duration of 'more or less two weeks,' according to the March 18 edition of Libération. Murawiec affirms that "Iraq's military capacities are half what they were in 1991, whilst U.S. military power is far superior."

    http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1303

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:00pm

  105. CIA leak: non-story, nothing compromised! Warrantless survielance: non-story until it's abused and it hasn't been or we'd hear about it! Supporting military torture: not true! NRA: bill of rights, read it!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 7:01pm

  106. Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO 06/13/2006 @ 6:56pm

    No you got it right the first time:

    NEOCONs are a crime-- against humanity! hehheheh

    Posted by Bushfools at 06/13/2006 @ 7:01pm

  107. Barry, you didn't address your contradiction.

    You complain immigrants are stressing public education. Yet, you feel that public education should be privatized; tuition paid for by people who can afford it, and not the government.

    Why do you care if immigrants destroy public education, that is the GOP goal, isn't it?

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 7:02pm

  108. Give me names!

    Posted by BARRY25 06/13/2006 @ 6:41pm

    Philip D. Zelikow

    The Executive Director of the 9/11 Commission states the following:

    "Why would Iraq attack America or use nuclear weapons against us? I'll tell you what I think the real threat (is) and actually has been since 1990 -- it's the threat against Israel," Zelikow told a crowd at the University of Virginia on Sep. 10, 2002, speaking on a panel of foreign policy experts assessing the impact of 9/11 and the future of the war on the al-Qaeda terrorist organization.

    "And this is the threat that dare not speak its name, because the Europeans don't care deeply about that threat, I will tell you frankly. And the American government doesn't want to lean too hard on it rhetorically, because it is not a popular sell," said Zelikow.

    The statements are the first to surface from a source closely linked to the Bush administration acknowledging that the war, which has so far cost the lives of nearly 600 U.S. troops and thousands of Iraqis, was motivated by Washington's desire to defend the Jewish state.

    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0329-11.htm

    Philip D. Zelikow is Executive Director of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, otherwise known as the 9-11 Commission.

    There's a raft of evidence to suggest that Zelikow has personal, professional and political reasons not to see the commission hold Rice and other Bush officials accountable for pre-9/11 failings, and may be the de facto swing vote for Republicans on the panel.[1] (http://antiwar.com/sperry/?articleid=2209) Here are just a few of them:

    * He and Rice worked closely together in the first Bush White House as aides to former National Security Adviser Brent Scowcroft. Zelikow was director of European security affairs, and Rice was senior director of Soviet and East European affairs, as well as special assistant to the president. Rice reportedly hired Zelikow. Both started in 1989 and left in 1991.

    * A few years after leaving the White House, Zelikow and Rice wrote a book together called, "Germany Unified and Europe Transformed: A Study in Statecraft."

    * The two associated again when Zelikow directed the Aspen Strategy Group [2] (http://www.aspeninstitute.org), a foreign-policy strategy body co-chaired by Rice's mentor Scowcroft. Rice, along with Dick Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz, were members.

    * Zelikow also directed the Markle Foundation's Task Force on National Security in the Information Age [3] (http://www.markletaskforce.org)under co-chairman James Barksdale, a Bush adviser and major Bush-Cheney donor. A 9/11 commissioner, Republican Sen. Slade Gorton, also served with Zelikow on the task force. (Interestingly, the pair serves together on yet another panel - The National Commission on Federal Election Reform - with Gorton acting as vice-chairman and Zelikow as executive director.)

    * After the 2000 election, Zelikow and Rice were reunited when George W. Bush named him to his transition team for the National Security Council. Rice reportedly asked Zelikow to help organize the NSC under the Scowcroft model, which was insular and steeped in Cold War worldview.

    * Former White House terrorism czar Richard Clarke says he briefed not only Rice and Hadley, but also Zelikow about the growing al-Qaida threat during the transition period. Zelikow sat in on the briefings, he says.

    * A month after the 9/11 al-Qaida attacks, President Bush appointed Zelikow to the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, which is chaired by Scowcroft.

    * Zelikow's regular job, the one he'll return to after the commission releases it final report in late July, is director of the Miller Center of Public Affairs at the University of Virginia. The center is dedicated to the study of the presidency, and maintains contact with the Bush White House, which fought the creation of the commission.

    Kristen Breitweiser, a 9/11 widow, insists Zelikow has a "clear conflict of interest." And she suspects he is in touch with Bush's political adviser, Rove, which she says would explain why the White House granted him, along with just one other commission official, the greatest access to the intelligence briefing Bush got a month before the 9/11 suicide hijackings.

    Phillip David Zelikow was appointed to the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board (PFIAB) on October 8, 2001, by President George Walker Bush.

    Zelikow (http://www.virginia.edu/topnews/releases2001/zelikow-oct-8-2001.html) has served as Director of the University of Virginia's Miller Center of Public Affairs since 1998. He is also White Burkett Miller Professor of History. He was director for European security affairs at the National Security Council from 1989 to 1991. In this position, Zelikow advised current PFIAB Chairman Brent Scowcroft and President George Herbert Walker Bush "on European issues, including the unification of Germany and the multinational coalition against Iraq."[4] (http://www.virginia.edu/topnews/releases2001/zelikow-oct-8-2001.html)

    "After serving in government with the Navy, the State Department, and the National Security Council, he taught at Harvard before assuming his present post in Virginia to direct the nation's largest research center on the American presidency. He was a member (2001-2003) of the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board and served as executive director of the National Commission on Federal Election Reform, chaired by former Presidents Jimmy Carter and Gerald R. Ford, as well as the executive director of the Markle Foundation Task Force on National Security in the Information Age.

    "Zelikow's books include The Kennedy Tapes (with Ernest May), Germany Unified and Europe Transformed (with Condoleezza Rice), and the rewritten Essence of Decision (with Graham Allison). Zelikow has also been the director of the Aspen Strategy Group, a policy program of the Aspen Institute."

    He is also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.[5] (http://www.americanpresident.org/action/about/philipzelikowbio.article. shtml)

    According to Melvin Goodman, Zelikow "headed a case study project at Harvard and took hundreds of thousands of dollars from the CIA. He used CIA documentation and produced case studies that exonerated the CIA from any charges of politicization of intelligence, particularly with regard to the Soviet Union." [6]

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Philip_D._Zelikow

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:03pm

  109. I never sai it should be privatized! I do believe that parents should have a choice in where they send their children though! I definitely don't want my children brainwashed by some libz who couldn't make it in the real world!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 7:03pm

  110. You conservatives lie about concern for immigrant's well-being as "slave laborers", too.

    Another lie that sounds like communist drivel, if you even listened to yourselves.

    Who cares if immigrants are underpaid in this country or in Mexico?

    It's no skin off your back if a Mexican starves to death on the streets of LA than gets shot by Republican immigrant haters at the border, right?

    Fucking hypocrits.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 7:05pm

  111. Plunger, you're wasting soooooo much space with absolutely nothing tangible! Please, conspiracy theories galore! You got nothin'!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 7:05pm

  112. "Okay, Plunger is insane"

    Yeah and he is one of you lefties. Case Closed

    Posted by fukulibz at 06/13/2006 @ 7:05pm

  113. Give me names!

    Posted by BARRY25 06/13/2006 @ 6:41pm

    Grover Norquist

    Grover Norquist was an associate of Jack Abramoff who pled guilty to conspiracy to corrupt public officials, mail fraud and tax evasion on January 3, 2006. Norquist worked with Abramoff and Ralph Reed fundraising and lobbying on behalf of Indian gambling tribes. Emails released by federal investigators in June 2005 suggest that Norquist facilitated a scheme in which Reed secretly accepted payments from Abramoff to lobby against Indian casino gambling while Abramoff was being paid to promote Indian casino gambling.

    STRANGE BEDFELLOWS Grover Norquist and Abdurahman Alamoudi

    BY SETH GITELL

    During his presidential campaign and his first months in office, George W. Bush had no stronger supporter than Grover Norquist, the president of Americans for Tax Reform. During the New Hampshire primary, Norquist's group ran television ads that morphed the face of Arizona senator John McCain into that of President Bill Clinton (see " New Hampshire Diary, " News and Features, January 12, 2000). When Bush finally took office, Norquist became a key ally in the president's tax-cut quest. In its May 14 issue, the Nation highlighted the relationship in a piece titled " Grover Norquist: ‘Field Marshal of the Bush Plan.' "

    But now, as Bush embarks on a war against terrorism, the president may find Norquist more of a liability than an asset: the tax reformer has emerged as one of the leading conservative critics of the administration's legislative response to terror, the Anti-Terrorism Act of 2001.

    http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/this_just_in/documents /01848515.htm

    "John Loftus, ex-DOJ official: About a year-and-a-half ago, people in the intelligence community came and said-guys like Alamoudi and Sami al-Arian and other terrorists weren't being touched because they'd been ordered not to investigate the cases, not to prosecute them." "But, who was it that fixed the cases?... the answer is coming out in a very strange [though logical] place. What Alamoudi and al-Arian have in common is a guy named Grover Norquist... He is the guy that was hired by Alamoudi to head up the Islamic institute and he's the registered agent for Alamoudi, personally, and for the Islamic Institute. "The rumpled, balding figure [Al-Arian] was spotted darting into the offices of Republican power broker Grover Norquist last July... Sami Al-Arian emerged more than two hours later... Al-Arian was visiting the Islamic Institute, a Muslim outreach group cofounded by Norquist and housed within his office suite." [Norquist is close friend of Karl Rove.] "In 1998... the Islamic Institute [Norquist/Al-Arian], the AMC [al-Amoudi] and Al-Arian [Islamic Institute/Grover Norquist] were all working together."

    KARL ROVE, AL-QAEDA CONTACT IN WHITE HOUSE, THROUGH CLOSE FRIEND GROVER NORQUIST: "Grover Norquist's best friend is Karl Rove, the White House chief of staff, and apparently Norquist was able to fix things [through Karl Rove, so that 9-11 covert op of false flagger (drug dealer) connections 'performed' at the FL/San Diego, CA flight schools were allowed to continue as the laying down of red herrings pre-9-11 for important post-9-11 blame narrative to be useful to invade Afghanistan and Iraq--and other countries.]."...

    http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/11/301639.shtml

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:06pm

  114. Their duplicitous scheme exposed, I note that Barry U Fuk Libz 25 are trying a 'divide and conquer' strategy, with B Two Five on Nichols' blog, FUL (of shit) on Corn's.

    Posted by skeletonman at 06/13/2006 @ 7:07pm

  115. Plunger, you're wasting soooooo much space with absolutely nothing tangible! Please, conspiracy theories galore! You got nothin'!

    Posted by BARRY25 06/13/2006 @ 7:05pm

    You asked me to give you names...do you still want more names?

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:07pm

  116. Wurmser:

    "The CDI's Ledeen, Amitay and Sobhani were featured speakers at a May 2003 forum on "the future of Iran' sponsored by AEI, the Hudson Institute and the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. The forum, chaired by the Hudson Institute's Meyrav Wurmser, the Israeli-born wife of David Wurmser (he serves as Cheney's leading expert on Iran and Syria), included a presentation by Un Lubrani of Israel's Ministry of Defense.

    Summarizing the sentiment of neoconservative ideologues and strategists, Meyrav Wurmser said: "Our fight against Iraq was only a battle in a long war. It would be ill-conceived to think we can deal with Iraq alone. We must move on, and faster."

    JINSA, a neoconservative organization established in 1976 that fosters closer strategic and military ties between the United States and Israel, also has its sights on Iran. At a JINSA policy forum in April 2003 titled "Time to Focus on Iran-The Mother of Modern Terrorism," Ledeen declared, "The time for diplomacy is at an end; it is time for a free Iran, free Syria and free Lebanon."

    JINSA, along with CSP, serves as one of the main institutional links to the military-industrial complex for neoconservatives. Ledeen served as JINSA's first executive director and was JINSA's "Godfather," according to Amitay. Amitay is a JINSA vice chair. JINSA board members or advisers also include former CIA director James Woolsey, former Rep. Jack Kemp and the AEI's Joshua Muravchik. After he joined the administration, Feith resigned from JINSA.'s board of advisers, as did Vice President Dick Cheney and Undersecretary of State for Arms Control John Bolton."

    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Central_Asia_watch/Is_Iran_Next.html

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:08pm

  117. Ledeen:

    Conflicts and power

    From an outstanding interview with Professor Ilan Pappe of Haifa University (my emphasis):

    "I think that neo-conservatism is mainly a product of the Cold War, and I think as happened in Israel, so in the US, a lot of people benefit economically, sociologically, politically, from a situation of conflict which begins with the producers of arms, and it ends with the people who have a hold on the decision-making apparatus in the name of national security. And of course this was all lost in a way when the Soviet Union collapsed, and the cold war ended. And I think this group of people were looking for a new bogey man, a new threat to the national security of the US and they found it because of the very strong influence, I think, of Israel among other things, in the Arab world and the Islamic world. Of course, movements such as the Islamic Al-Qaeda did not help. They provided the pretext, and the context for even pushing these ideas even further. And what we have now is the same people, a next generation, who would do all they can to perpetuate the conflict, because they benefit from the conflict. They benefit from situations of wars, of conflicts, and so on, and I think this is what enforces their hold over the American policy making in the world at large, and in the Middle East in particular."

    We often wonder why people like Ledeen seem to be so interested in creating conflict for the sake of conflict. One reason is that people who are aware of the timing of a conflict are in a position to make money off it. Another reason is that this constant conflict constitutes the sole reason why these people have any power. They create an escalating series of problems, and then have to remain in power to ‘solve' them. Of course, the solutions continue to lead to more conflicts. We can understand all the the talk about Iran as another example of creating a conflict which gives these characters something to do. While a civil war in Iraq benefits Likudniks in the American government and in Israel, it also benefits a guy like Cheney, whose only interest is in creating more power for Cheney. The United States has fallen into a vicious cycle where the jobs of the neocons and their fellow travelers like Cheney and Rumsfeld are dependent on their cleaning up the messes they have already started. An end to conflict would put them out of power, so we'll never see an end to conflict.

    http://xymphora.blogspot.com/

    A fellow at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, Ledeen holds a Ph.D. in History and Philosophy from the University of Wisconsin. In 1983, on the recommendation of Richard Perle, Ledeen was hired at the Department of Defense as a consultant on terrorism. While being investigated as a security risk by his supervisor, Noel Koch, it was learned from the CIA station that Ledeen had been carried in Agency files as an agent of influence of a foreign government: Israel. After having his access to classified materials blocked he ceased working there. He next appeared at the National Security Council as a consultant working with NSC head Robert McFarlane. Ledeen was involved in the transfer of arms to Iran during the Iran-Contra affair -- an adventure that he documented in the book "Perilous Statecraft: An Insider's Account of the Iran-Contra Affair." A prominent member of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA) board of governors and the Center for Security Policy (CSP), he advocates "total war" inline with the "Grand Strategy for the Middle East" which advocates "Iraq as the tactical pivot, Saudi Arabia as the strategic pivot and Egypt as the prize." Ledeen is presently a serving member on the China Commission and, with the support of DOD Undersecretary for Policy Douglas Feith, he has since 2001 been employed as a consultant for the Office of Special Plans OSP). He is involved in the handling of classified materials and has high-level security clearances. He was also involved in election rigging of the 2000 election.

    http://www.nogw.com/warforisrael.html

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:09pm

  118. Sorry, that should have been "He/she/it's duplicitous scheme exposed, I note that Barry U Fuk Libz 25 is trying a 'divide and conquer' strategy, with B Two Five on Nichols' blog, FUL (of shit) on Corn's."

    Posted by skeletonman at 06/13/2006 @ 7:09pm

  119. Nobody has been talking about IMMIGRANTS rights or pay or anything else! We have, however, been talking about the theft of the services that my tax dollars pay for ( as a US citizen ) by ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS! There you go changin' the language again! My grandfather was a LEGAL immigrant sheep-herder from Spain who came here legally, respected this country, worked hard and assinilated without waving the spanish flag and demanding ILLEGAL entitlements, something that would not be toleerated for one second and would be met with FORCE in the liberal utopia of MEXICO!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 7:09pm

  120. Zero, I strive for some balance. we're gonna have to vote for the dems, as there are no reasonable other choices. so let's find and praise the good ones, while at the same time excoriating the bums. wanna get on board?

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/13/2006 @ 7:09pm

  121. Johann...

    The only thing you can say about "F-bomb" is fuck him and feed him fishheads cause he/she/it isn't worth a fuck...

    Posted by leftofcenter at 06/13/2006 @ 7:10pm

  122. LAY:

    Wouldn't if be nice to learn the details of how Lay and Cheney were divvying up the oil fields in Iraq on a big map, even before 9/11?

    Wouldn't it be enlightening to hear that Lay knew for a fact that 9/11 was going to happen as the pretext for the war plan which he clearly had knowledge of prior to 9/11?

    Why would you sit around countless energy planning meetings dividing up the oil fields of Iraq in advance of 9/11 unless there were a plan in place to make it possible?

    Such a plan would by necessity be a war plan, and this war plan was actually in place prior to 9/11.

    Surely any good war plan requires at its core a starting point, a trigger if you will that provides a good "cover story" to implement it. Clearly you can't just go around invading countries without a good reason...you need to be attacked first, then retaliate.

    Was 9/11 simply part of the war plan?

    Why wouldn't it have been?

    You can't hit the "GO" button without a pretext.

    9/11 was the pretext for the invasion of the Middle East - all by design.

    CAN YOU SAY COVERUP?

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:10pm

  123. CHERTOFF:

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-01-11-chertoff-side_x.htm

    Chertoff played key role on 9/11 By Kevin Johnson and Mimi Hall, USA TODAY WASHINGTON -- In the minutes after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, while Attorney General John Ashcroft was rushing back from Milwaukee, Michael Chertoff was calling the shots.

    Chertoff, then chief of the Justice Department's criminal division, breached the prickly territorial lines that have long divided the Justice Department from the FBI. From a fifth-floor office at FBI headquarters, above the streams of panicked people who flooded Pennsylvania Avenue, he set up shop in the bureau's crisis center. For the next 20 hours, he directed the government's initial response to the most lethal terrorist attack in U.S. history.

    Chertoff would spend the next two years serving as a central figure in formulating U.S. anti-terrorism policy -- from the effort to secretly detain hundreds of Middle Easterners in the USA, to increasing the FBI's authority to conduct domestic surveillance at religious gatherings and other public events.

    Civil rights advocates say Chertoff's record raises serious questions about his fitness for the job. Gregory Nojeim, associate director of the ACLU's Washington legislative office, said Chertoff's tenure at Justice is the most troubling. Chertoff was one of the architects of the USA Patriot Act, which provided law enforcement broader surveillance authority.

    "Michael Chertoff's record suggests that he sees the Bill of Rights as an obstacle to national security," Nojeim said. The nomination "should spur a search of his entire record on civil liberties."

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/21/AR200512 2102327_5.html

    The White House and the FBI Killed Operation Greenquest, Michael Chertoff's Faux Search To Track The Funding For 9/11

    The strongest pushback came from the Justice Department, where the mention of DHS inspired jokes about duct tape and chartreuse threat levels. Justice officials believed DHS had "too much focus on marketing and not enough on substantive delivery," in the words of one aide to then-Attorney General John D. Ashcroft. "They were consumed with their public perception," said Mark Corallo, an Ashcroft spokesman.

    Indeed, one of the new department's biggest intramural furors was a branding fight with the FBI. It began when the director of a new DHS agency known as Immigration and Customs Enforcement -- or ICE -- decided to keep the catchy acronym but change the name to Investigation and Criminal Enforcement. The FBI, it turned out, had some proprietary feelings about the word "investigation."

    At the FBI's insistence, the White House had already forced ICE to give up its Operation Greenquest program investigating terrorism financing -- and forced Ridge to sign a memo pledging to keep his department away from similar investigations. But Ridge thought this spat was just silly; nobody was going to mistake ICE for the FBI.

    Nevertheless, the White House told Ridge to back off.

    http://www.madcowprod.com/01122004.html

    Michael Chertoff, appointed by President Bush to head the Homeland Security Department, may have shielded from criminal prosecution a former client suspected by law enforcement of having funneled millions of dollars directly to Osama Bin Laden while in charge of the U.S. Government's 9.11 investigation.

    "But in a hint of the gravity of his legal predicament, he was represented in court by Michael Chertoff, the former U.S. attorney in Newark and counsel to U.S. Sen. Alfonse D'Amato's Whitewater investigation." Link

    Yes, the soon-to-be Homeland Security Chief Michael Chertoff represented a known bin Laden operative. Perhaps more troubling, Chertoff also headed the U.S.'s investigation into the September 11th attack. From the New Jersey Law Journal, August 4, 2003:

    "The Sept. 11 investigation was supervised by Assistant Attorney General Michael Chertoff, head of the U.S. Criminal Justice Division, who is now a Third Circuit judge." Link

    More on Chertoff from the New Yorker, November 5, 2001:

    "Since the September 11th terrorist attacks, Chertoff's office has become the funnel for what is probably the most important criminal investigation in American history, as prosecutors and F.B.I. investigators pour in to seek the boss's approval. What leads can we use from the search of a hijacker's car in Portland, Maine? Where do the hijackers' credit-card records lead?… For day-to-day decisions, Chertoff has the last word"…

    http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=66175

    Chertoff allowed scores of suspected Israeli terrorists and spies to quietly return to Israel. In several cases, Israeli suspects working for phoney moving companies, such as Urban Moving Systems from Weehawken, N.J., were caught driving moving vans which tested positive for explosives. On September 14, Dominic Suter, the owner of the moving company, which was found to be a Mossad front company, fled to Israel after FBI agents requested a second interview.

    One group of 5 Israelis was seen on the roof of Urban Moving Systems videotaping and celebrating the destruction of the World Trade Center. These Israeli agents were returned to Israel on visa violations.

    These Israeli suspects, and others, who had apparently transported explosives in the New York area, were allowed to return to Israel without being properly interrogated or their presence and activities in the United States having been vigorously investigated.

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:11pm

  124. You're givin me names but I want the names of people CHARGED or CONVICTED! I can give you names: jenny gorelick, sandy burger, bill clinton, john kerry, george soros: what does it mean? Nothing! Just the facts please

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 7:11pm

  125. Imagine a whole world full of deadbeat NEOCONs-- the real world! Where no one pays for anything. Those best at stealing win. Win what's left of that kind of a world-- a polluted, starving, mostly underwater planet, our future left to the NEOCONs-- 'THE' crime against humanity.

    Posted by Bushfools at 06/13/2006 @ 7:12pm

  126. PORTER GOSS:

    Goss is linked directly to Cheney and the Plame leak...count on it!

    July 7, 2004 Porter Goss: Cheney Cat's Paw by Ray McGovern

    http://www.antiwar.com/orig/mcgovern.php?articleid=2944

    He has long shown himself to be under the spell of Vice President Dick Cheney, and would likely report primarily to him and to White House political adviser Karl Rove rather than to National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice.

    What was actually happening was clear to intelligence analysts, active and retired. We Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity were not the only ones to expose it – as clearly and as often as the domesticated U.S. media would allow.

    But what about CIA alumnus Porter Goss, then in his sixth year as chairman of the House intelligence oversight committee? Republican party loyalist first and foremost, Goss chose to give an entirely new meaning to "oversight." Even when it became clear that the "mushroom cloud" reporting was based mostly on a forgery, he just sat back and watched it all happen. Like Br'er Fox, he didn't say nothin'.

    Goss, who has a long history of subservience to Cheney, could be counted upon to play the Cheney/Gingrich/et al. role himself.

    The report due out this week by the Senate Intelligence Committee investigating intelligence performance regarding the long-sought-after Iraqi weapons of mass destruction is said to be scathing in its criticism of CIA. No problem. This too will help keep the focus where the White House wants it – the more so since committee chair and Republican stalwart Pat Roberts (R-Kan.) can be counted on to do whatever Cheney and Rove tell him to do.

    Goss on 9/11

    With respect to the various investigations into 9/11, Goss was thrust into the limelight by Cheney, who initially opposed any investigation at all. In February 2002, Cheney went so far as to warn that if Congress decided to go ahead with an investigation, administration officials might not show up to testify. When folks started talking about the need for a genuinely independent commission, though, Cheney acquiesced in the establishment of the congressional joint committee as the lesser evil and took reassurance from the fact that Goss could be counted on to keep the lid on – and, when necessary, run rings around co-chair Sen. Bob Graham, (D-Fla.).

    Porter Goss performed that task brilliantly, giving clear priority to providing political protection for the president. Goss acquiesced when the White House and CIA refused to allow the joint committee to report out any information on what President Bush had been told before 9/11 – ostensibly because it was "classified."

    In June 2002, Cheney called Goss and Graham to chastise them for a media leak of sensitive information from intercepted communications. A CNN report had attributed the leak to "two congressional sources," and Cheney was livid.

    Goss admitted to being "chagrined" over Cheney's call. He and Graham promptly bypassed normal congressional procedures and went directly to Attorney General John Ashcroft, asking him to investigate the leak. Little thought apparently was given to the separation of powers between the executive and congressional branches, or the fact that Congress has its own capability for such investigations.

    Next thing you know, the FBI is crawling all over Capitol Hill, questioning members of the joint committee that is investigating the FBI, CIA, et al., and asking members of Congress to submit to lie-detector tests. Shaking his head, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) noted the ludicrousness of allowing the FBI to build dossiers on lawmakers who are supposed to be investigating the FBI. He and others joined those pushing for the creation of an independent 9/11 commission.

    That Goss and Graham could be so easily intimidated by Cheney speaks volumes.

    My take:

    ROVE & GOSS both worked for Cheney.

    Cheney & Rumsfeld both set up the WHIG.

    Cheney instructed Libby to leak Plames identity to the press.

    Cheney and Goss were directly involved in the planning and implementation of 9/11.

    Cheney was in the Washington bunker, while Bush was at the school.He was in command. Scholars for 911 Truth point out http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/... that Secretary of Transportation, Mineta Confirm this. Others point out he was also conducting numerous military drills that day that did confuse land workers.

    Mineta's testimony is devastating," observed James H. Fetzer, Ph.D., McKnight Professor at the University of Minnesota.

    "It pulls the plug on the Commission's contention there was no advance warning that the Pentagon was going to be hit."

    According to Secretary Mineta's testimony, which is in the public domain, when he (Mineta) arrived at an underground bunker at the White House (known as the Presidential Emergency Operations Center), the Vice President was in charge. "During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon", he stated, "there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, 'The plane is 50 miles out.' 'The plane is 30 miles out.'

    "And when it got down to, 'The plane is 10 miles out,'" Mineta continued, "the young man also said to the Vice President, 'Do the orders still stand?' And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, 'Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?'" One way to construe these remarks could be that the orders were to shoot down the plane.

    The scholars suggest that that is an implausible interpretation. The Pentagon, they observe, may be the most heavily defended building in the world. If the orders had been to "shoot it down," then no doubt it would have been shot down. Moreover, there would have been no apparent reason for the young man to have expressed concern over whether or not "the orders still stand." Shooting it down, under the circumstances, would have been the thing to do.

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:13pm

  127. An arab child told his teacher that those builings would not be standing for long. A few days before 9-11! According to your logic, why were he or his parents not charged with any crimes?

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 7:13pm

  128. JUDITH MILLER

    Stephen Engleberg, Judith Miller's former Editor at the New York Times, was on Countdown recently.

    Keith opened the segment by stating that there was a 9/11 Truth Movement convention under way in New York City, and the implication was made that a lot of people actually believe that the government helped to plan the events of 9/11.

    The story is now in the mainstream media - with the New York Times, AOL and Olberman covering it on the same day.

    The segment on Miller proclaimed that she had received "a tip from a White House insider" (that wouldn't be Scooter "connected-at-the-roots" Libby, would it?) - and that two "Al Qaeda Operatives" had been intercepted complaining that the US had not bothered to respond in any meaningful way to the attack on the USS Cole - while relishing the thought of the "Big Attack Coming Soon to the US."

    OK...STOP.

    Why would 2 Al Qaeda operatives be upset that the US had not retaliated against Arab countries in the aftermath of the Cole Bombing?

    Answer:

    They wouldn't be.

    Let logic take over here...

    Who would be upset that the US had not bombed an Arab country in the aftermath of a PURPORTED Al Qaeda Attack?

    What is Al Qaeda...really?

    Judith Miller was the mouthpiece for admitted Zionist Scooter Libby in his effort to plant FALSE information in concert with Chalabi in order to enable the Administration's invasion of Iraq.

    On whose behalf?

    The New York Times never ran the story about the warning of a major terror event in the months preceding 9/11.

    The New York times held the story of Domestic Espionage from the public for a full year - knowing full well it would have cost Bush the election if they had run it prior to the 2004 election.

    Scooter Libby writes a FAR TOO CLEVER letter to Miller with respect to the Plame outing - making reference to the Aspen tress growing in clusters - and recounting that they "turn together because their roots connect them."

    Both are staunch "Israel-Firsters." Both had inside knowledge. He could turn on her if she turned on him. He knew about 9/11. So did she.

    Both had prior knowledge of a "Big Al Qaeda Event coming to the US in advance of 9/11.

    Both had knowledge of the fact that Plame was outed at the request of Cheney - in order to destroy any real evidence about Iraq's WMD program and destroy Joe Wilson's credibility.

    Do the math, folks...

    Do the math.

    It's time to change the LEAD STORY to:

    "9/11 - An Inside Job?"

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:15pm

  129. An arab child told his teacher that those builings would not be standing for long. A few days before 9-11! According to your logic, why were he or his parents not charged with any crimes?

    Posted by BARRY25

    That incident was in the United States.

    Why wasn't it investigated?

    Do the math.

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:16pm

  130. Barry, you liar!

    You know that the way you "choose" schools you prefer is through dismantling public school districts, and creating private schools from which to shop around.

    With tuition credits, you can avoid schools of diversity. You can use tuition grants to pay for those private schools that don't have to worry about equality or the Bill of Rights. Students and teachers not selected on intelligence or merit, as required by State run schools.

    Rather, entrance based on your favorite gay bashing, evolution fearing, immigrant hating, deficit bloating, Christian Evangelist ideals as allowed by any fraternity or old-boys club.

    Fucking hypocrit.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/13/2006 @ 7:16pm

  131. INDIRA SINGH:

    Indira Singh, an "IT consultant" who previously worked on a Defense Advanced Research Project, and who was employed by J.P. Morgan on 9/11, in risk management, pointed to MITRE's role at the FAA during the 9/11 Citizens' Commission hearings in New York last September.

    "Ptech was with MITRE Corporation in the basement of the FAA for two years prior to 9/11," Singh said. "Their specific job is to look at interoperability issues the FAA had with NORAD and the Air Force in the case of an emergency. If anyone was in a position to know that the FAA – that there was a window of opportunity or to insert software or to change anything – it would have been Ptech along with MITRE."

    http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=68463

    IS DEFENSE CONTRACTOR MITRE CORP. THE TROJAN HORSE OF 9/11?

    By Christopher Bollyn American Free Press http://www.americanfreepress.net

    Did a central controller with "super user" privileges of the command and control systems of the Department of Defense, NORAD, the Air Force, and the FAA, control the aerial attacks of 9/11? There is only one agency that has that capability – a little-known private company known as MITRE Corp.

    There are basically two versions of events surrounding the terror attacks of September 11, 2001. There is the government version, propagated by the controlled media, which claims that 19 Arab terrorists, organized by Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan, hijacked 4 passenger aircraft and used them to attack the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. This version, used to launch the "war on terror" and two invasions in the Middle East, is challenged by a lack of evidence.

    On the other hand, a host of unofficial explanations, based on available evidence, make up what can be called the "inside job" or anti-government version. This version basically claims that agents embedded within the U.S. military and intelligence organizations conspired to carry out the terror attacks.

    The two foreign nations most often implicated in the unofficial explanations of 9/11 are Israel and Britain. Both countries are supporters and beneficiaries of the Bush administration's "war on terror."

    For the Israelis, Iraq, a major threat, was drastically reduced in power and put under military occupation. For the British, a oil-rich territory, Iraq's southern region of Basra, which it originally occupied in 1914, was reoccupied and its immense oil assets put under control of the Crown.

    Royal Dutch Shell and BP, formerly named British Petroleum, are two companies said to be controlled by the Crown, which have posted record profits since 9/11.

    While both Britain and Israel have substantial assets and powerful organizations in the United States, proponents of the anti-government version have not explained how a foreign power could manipulate the computer systems of the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the North American Aerospace Defense Command ( NORAD), and the U.S. Air Force, and thereby control the aerial attacks of 9/11.

    When American Free Press interviewed Eckehardt Werthebach, former president of Germany's domestic intelligence service, in December 2001, he said "the deathly precision" and "the magnitude of planning" behind the 9/11 attacks would have required "years of planning."

    Such a sophisticated operation, Werthebach said, would require the "fixed frame" of a state intelligence organization, something not found in a "loose group" of terrorists like the one allegedly led by Mohammed Atta.

    Many people would have been involved in the planning of such an operation, Werthebach said. He pointed to the absence of leaks as further indication that the attacks were "state organized actions."

    Andreas von Bülow, who served on Germany's parliamentary commission and oversaw the three branches of the German secret service, told AFP that he believed that Mossad, Israel's intelligence service, was behind the terror attacks. The attacks, he said, were carried out to turn public opinion against the Arabs and boost military and security spending.

    "You don't get the higher echelons," von Bülow said, referring to the "architectural structure" which masterminds such terror attacks. At this level, he said, the organization doing the planning, such as Mossad or British intelligence, is primarily interested in affecting public opinion.

    In a recent article in AFP, " The Perfect Terrorist Plan To Level the Twin Towers Created In 1976" by Greg Szymanski, it was reported that the U.S. Army devised a plan in 1976 to bring down the towers using commercial airliners and box cutters as weapons.

    At the time, George H.W. Bush was head of the CIA and Martin R. Hoffmann was Secretary of the Army. Hoffmann told AFP that he did not recall being involved in this planning reportedly done by the U.S. Army.

    An architect, even of destruction, needs a contractor. Proponents of the anti-government version of 9/11 provide evidence to support their claims, but do not explain how the U.S. military and civil aviation control systems could have been hijacked to allow the aerial attacks to occur.

    Because the attacks involved systems used by the FAA, NORAD, and the U.S. Air Force, the conspirators would have needed "super user" access to the command and control centers of these three separate organizations.

    Super user means the most privileged user on a computerized data system. The super user has complete access to all files on the system. For the previously mentioned agencies, and virtually all other U.S. defense and intelligence organizations, there is one such possible super user: a little-known private not-for-profit organization, based in Bedford, Mass., known as MITRE Corp. MITRE also has a headquarters in McLean, Va., on a campus it shares with Northrop Grumman.

    The MITRE Corp. is a major defense contracting organization headed by the former Director of Central Intelligence (DCI), Dr. James Rodney Schlesinger. Schlesinger, who was reportedly made DCI at the request of Henry Kissinger in 1973, later served as Secretary of Defense.

    Schlesinger, a former director of strategic studies at the RAND Corp., was described in a 1973 biography as a "devout Lutheran," although he was born in New York in 1929 to immigrant Jewish parents from Austria and Russia. Schlesinger earned three degrees from Harvard University.

    Schlesinger's father, an accountant, founded the accounting firm Schlesinger & Haas, and was a trustee and chairman of the budget of the Stephen Wise Free Synagogue. His father was also a member of the New York State Grand Lodge of Masons.

    The MITRE Corp., of which Schlesinger is chairman of the board of trustees, is connected to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), MIT's Lincoln Laboratory, and Mitretek Systems of Falls Church, Va.

    Schlesinger is a senior advisor for the Lehman Brothers investment firm and a member of the Defense Policy Board and advisory council for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS).

    The MITRE Corp. has provided computer and information technology to the FAA and the U.S. Air Force since the late 1950's. MITRE is a Federally Funded Research and Development Center (FFRDC) for the Dept. of Defense, the FAA, and the Internal Revenue Service.

    The chairman of the board of trustees of Mitretek Systems, a spin-off of MITRE Corp., is Martin R. Hoffmann, who served as Secretary of the Army when the "perfect terrorist plan" was reportedly prepared in 1976.

    MITRE's Command, Control, Communications, and Intelligence (C3I) FFRDC for the Dept. of Defense was established in 1958. The C3I "supports a broad and diverse set of sponsors within the Department of Defense and the Intelligence Community. These include the military departments, defense and intelligence agencies, the combatant commands, and elements of both the Office of the Secretary of Defense and the office of the Joint Chiefs of Staff," according to MITRE's website. "Information systems technology," it says, "coupled with domain knowledge, underpin the work of the C3I FFRDC."

    The U.S. Air Force maintains its Electronic Systems Center (ESC) at the Hanscom AFB in Bedford, Mass. The ESC manages the development and acquisition of electronic command and control (C2) systems used by the Air Force.

    The ESC is the Air Force's "brain for information, command and control systems," according to Charles Paone, a civilian employee of the ESC. It is the "product center" for the Air Force's Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) and Joint Surveillance Target Attack Radar System (J-STARS), Paone said.

    Asked about MITRE's role at the ESC, Paone said, "MITRE does the front-end engineering. It's basically our in-house engineer." MITRE employees operate the computer systems at Hanscom AFB, Paone said.

    MIT's Lincoln Laboratories, the parent of MITRE, is located on the Hanscom AFB.

    A second FFRDC, the Center for Advanced Aviation System Development (CAASD) provides computer engineering and technology to the FAA. MITRE's support of the FAA began in 1958, when the company was created.

    The FAA's Airspace Management Handbook of May 2004, for example, was written and published by the MITRE Corp.

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:17pm

  132. An arab child told his teacher that those builings would not be standing for long. A few days before 9-11! According to your logic, why were he or his parents not charged with any crimes?

    Posted by BARRY25 06/13/2006 @ 7:13pm

    And, dipshit, GWB's PDB told him to expect an attack using commercial airliners directed against buildings, and HE went of vacation.

    Just WHO is it who failed in their duty?

    What a bunch of flop dicks you apologists truly are.

    Posted by skeletonman at 06/13/2006 @ 7:18pm

  133. You want names? Let's talk about names...

    THOMAS OLMSTED:

    Autopsy: No Arabs on Flight 77 By Thomas R. Olmsted, M.D

    http://www.sierratimes.com/03/07/02/article_tro.htm...

    I am an ex Naval line officer and a psychiatrist in private practice in New Orleans, a Christian and homeschool dad. It troubled me a great deal that we rushed off to war on the flimsiest of evidence. I considered various ways to provide a smoking gun of who and why Sept 11th happened. Astute observers noticed right away that there were no Arabic sounding names on any of the flight manifests of the planes that "crashed" on that day.

    A list of names on a piece of paper is not evidence, but an autopsy by a pathologist, is. I undertook by FOIA request, to obtain that autopsy list and you are invited to view it below. Guess what? Still no Arabs on the list. It is my opinion that the monsters who planned this crime made a mistake by not including Arabic names on the original list to make the ruse seem more believable.

    When airline disasters occur, airlines will routinely provide a manifest list for anxious families. You may have noticed that even before Sep 11th, that airlines are pretty meticulous about getting an accurate headcount before takeoff. It seems very unlikely to me, that five Arabs sneaked onto a flight with weapons. This is the list provided by American of the 56 passengers:

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:19pm

  134. NAMES???

    How about the purported hijackers who are STILL ALIVE?

    The absence of any news coverage of this story is evidence of media complicity.

    Resurrected Hijackers Several Suicide Hijackers Later Turn Up Alive in the Middle East

    Of the 19 alleged hijackers identified by the FBI, at least six turned up alive after the attack. The FBI's identifications included names, photographs, and, in several cases, other personal details -- all of which matched the six persons who surfaced after the attack to proclaim their innocence. Abdulaziz Alomari

    Abdulaziz Alomari was identified by the FBI as the hijacker who accompanied Mohamed Atta from the connecting flight from Portland and helped him hijack and pilot Flight 11 into the North Tower. Abdulaziz told the London-based Asharq Al-Awsat newspaper: "The name [listed by the FBI] is my name and the birth date is the same as mine, but I am not the one who bombed the World Trade Center in New York." 1 Saudi Embassy officials in Washington defended the innocence of Alomari, saying that his passport was stolen in 1996 and that he had reported the theft to the police. 2 Saeed Alghamdi

    Saeed Alghamdi, a Saudi Airlines pilot, was identified by the FBI of being a hijacker of Flight 93, which crashed in Pennsylvania. Alghamdi was "shocked and furious" to learn this three days after the attack, noting that his name, place of residence, date of birth, and occupation matched those described by the FBI. "You cannot imagine what it is like to be described as a terrorist - and a dead man - when you are innocent and alive," said Alghamdi, who considered legal action against the FBI. 3 Salem Al-Hamzi

    Al-Hamzi was identified by the FBI as one of the hijackers of Flight 77, thought to have crashed into the Pentagon. Al-Hamzi said: "I have never been to the United States and have not been out of Saudi Arabia in the past two years." 4 Ahmed Al-Nami

    Al-Nami was identified by the FBI as one of the hijackers of Flight 93. Al-Nami said: "I'm still alive, as you can see. I was shocked to see my name mentioned by the American Justice Department. I had never even heard of Pennsylvania where the plane I was supposed to have hijacked." 5 Waleed Alshehri

    Waleed Alshehri, a Saudi Arabian pilot, was identified by the FBI as one of the hijackers of Flight 11. Alshehri turned up in Morocco after the attack where he contacted both the Saudi and American authorities to tell them he was not involved in the attack. 6 7 Abdulrahman al-Omari

    Abdulrahman al-Omari, a Saudi Airlines pilot, was identified by the FBI as one of the hijackers of Flight 11. After learning this, he visited the US consulate in Jeddah to demand an explanation. 8 Ameer and Adnan Bukhari

    Ameer and Adnan Bukhari were named by CNN as suspected hijackers of Flight 175, the jetliner which crashed into the South Tower, in an article dated 9/13/01. In a correction, CNN stated that Ameer Bukhari died in a small plane crash in Florida, and that Adnan was still alive in Florida, having passed a polygraph test to confirm his innocence. 9

    http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/deceptions/identities.html

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:21pm

  135. State of Israel?

    They had one Mossad Agent on the plane with Atta:

    http://archives.cnn.com/2001/TECH/industry/09/11/akamai.founder/...

    Born in Denver, Colorado, and raised in Jerusalem, Lewin is an officer in the Israel Defense Forces, having served in the country's military for more than four years.

    While five other Mossad Agents film the impact of the planes into the towers from the ground:

    http://www.sundayherald.com/37707...

    They warned their nationals in the vicinity of the Twin Towers in advance of the strike:

    By virtue of the Odigo warning, someone knew enough about the planned attacks to warn Odigo before the planes had even departed the airport gates, yet they did not call the Israeli security company at the airports which could have stopped the flights from leaving.

    Think about that one for a while.

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/odigo_9-11_warning.html...

    Sorted by country, here's how many Israeli Nationals died in the Twin Towers on 9/11 according to CNN's Memorial site:

    http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/memorial/lists/by-country/page9.html...

    Probably just a coincidence.

    Facts are facts.

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:23pm

  136. Barry,

    Are you keeping up?

    Do you want more names?

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:25pm

  137. COLIN POWELL:

    Colin Powell in four-letter neo-con 'crazies' row

    Martin Bright Sunday September 12, 2004 The Observer

    A furious row has broken out over claims in a new book by BBC broadcaster James Naughtie that US Secretary of State Colin Powell described neo-conservatives in the Bush administration as 'fucking crazies' during the build-up to war in Iraq.

    Powell's extraordinary outburst is alleged to have taken place during a telephone conversation with Foreign Secretary Jack Straw. The two became close friends during the intense negotiations in the summer of 2002 to build an international coalition for intervention via the United Nations. The 'crazies' are said to be Vice-President Dick Cheney, Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and his deputy, Paul Wolfowitz.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1302834,00.html...

    Crazy enough to attack its own people?

    According to Colin Powell, then US Secretary of State...the answer was a resounding:

    "FUCKING CRAZY!"

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:26pm

  138. DOUGLAS FEITH:

    As previously reported by Raw Story, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI) inquiry -- titled Phase II -- is waiting on a report from the Pentagon inspector general as to Feith's alleged role in manipulating pre-war intelligence to support a case for war. Feith, who is also being probed by the FBI for his role in an Israeli spy case, resigned in January 2005.

    More broadly, a RAW STORY investigation has found that Feith's access to classified information and his alleged wrongdoing can likely be laid at the feet of more senior officials in the Bush Administration -- namely Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld -- who would have had to have overruled Pentagon background checks to reissue Feith's clearances after he was booted from the National Security Council for allegations of espionage in the mid 1980s.

    Feith is out of the country and could not be reached for comment.

    This lack of oversight has caused great concern among many former military and intelligence sources. One former intelligence source point to "a bigger can of worms" that a Feith investigation may unravel, pointing to the Israeli spy case -- in which Pentagon analyst Larry Franklin passed classified information to a pro-Israeli lobby -- and to the Defense Department's own inability to address security breaches.

    The Franklin leak is hardly an isolated incident.

    In 1978, the current head of the World Bank and former Deputy Defense Secretary Secretary Paul Wolfowitz was investigated for passing classified information through AIPAC, the same organization that Franklin is charged with passing state secrets to.

    Wolfowitz, who at the time was working for the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency (ACDA), was himself brought in by yet another high level alleged leaker, Richard Perle. Perle, too, is being investigated in the current AIPAC case.

    Perle, who most recently served as chairman of the Pentagon Defense Policy Board and quietly resigned after the AIPAC case broke, was alleged to have passed on highly classified information to the Israeli embassy when he was a foreign policy aide for Senator Henry M. "Scoop" Jackson in 1970.

    Perle was instrumental in bringing Feith into several positions, starting in the early 80s. By the mid-1980s Feith was relieved of his clearances for allegations of passing secrets to AIPAC, bringing the question of clearances full circle.

    Rumsfeld seen to reinstate clearances

    Despite their checkered past, Rumsfeld's Pentagon reissued clearances to Feith, Perle and Wolfowitz. Clearances were also issued to several of Feith's consultants, some of whom were major players in the Iran Contra scandal.

    The Iran Contra scandal implicated then-President Reagan, Vice President George H. W. Bush, and nearly the entire senior level of the administration in a weapons trafficking operation in which the US sold arms to its avowed enemy Iran. The money was then funneled to the Contras in Nicaragua, a group of anti-communists fighting the then seated regime of the Socialist Sandinistas, in order to subsidize a grassroots uprising. Feith's team of consultants included such Iran Contra luminaries as Michael Ledeen and his go-to Iran arms merchant, Manucher Gorbanifar.

    One former intelligence source said only an official of Rumsfeld's seniority could reissue clearances after they had been revoked.

    http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Pentagon_investigation_stalls_Phase_II_of_ 0130.html

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:29pm

  139. GENERAL HAYDEN:

    From the Frank Rich NYT editorial:

    It was under General Hayden, a self-styled electronic surveillance whiz, that the N.S.A. intercepted actual Qaeda messages on Sept. 10, 2001 -- "Tomorrow is zero hour" for one -- and failed to translate them until Sept. 12. That same fateful summer, General Hayden's N.S.A. also failed to recognize that "some of the terrorists had set up shop literally under its nose," as the national-security authority James Bamford wrote in The Washington Post in 2002. The Qaeda cell that hijacked American Flight 77 and plowed into the Pentagon was based in the same town, Laurel, Md., as the N.S.A., and "for months, the terrorists and the N.S.A. employees exercised in some of the same local health clubs and shopped in the same grocery stores."

    HOW MANY MORE COINCIDENCES DOES THIS COUNTRY REQUIRE TO FINALLY ADMIT THE TRUTH?

    Mossad was shadowing every move of the (purportedly) "Arab Terrorists" in the weeks preceding 9/11.

    One of the cells was obviously under the "care and feeding" of the NSA.

    Hayden was by necessity the individual tasked with ensuring that the operation not be detected. Who better to run interference than the guy running the data vacuum?

    Note:

    Numerous media outlets -- including the Associated Press, The Wall Street Journal, ABC, CBS, and CNN -- uncritically reported Gen. Michael V. Hayden's January 23, 2006 claim that, if the Bush administration's warrantless domestic surveillance program had been in place before the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, it "would have detected some of the 9-11 operatives in the U.S., and we would have identified them as such."

    Uh, actually, it was...and it DID....

    AND YOU BURIED IT!

    http://mediamatters.org/items/200605120018

    A secretive U.S. eavesdropping agency monitored telephone conversations before Sept. 11 between the suspected commander of the terror attacks and the alleged chief hijacker, but did not share the information with other intelligence agencies, U.S. officials said Thursday.

    The officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the conversations between Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and Mohammed Atta were intercepted by the National Security Agency, or NSA, an intelligence agency that monitors and decodes foreign communications.

    The NSA failed to share the intercepts with the CIA or other U.S. intelligence agencies, the officials told Knight Ridder. It also failed to promptly translate some intercepted Arabic-language conversations, a senior intelligence official said.

    http://mediamatters.org/items/200601240004

    Like Cheney, however, Hayden did not mention that the NSA, CIA and FBI had significant information about two of the leading hijackers as early as January 2000 but failed to keep track of them or capitalize on the information, according to the Sept. 11 commission and others. He also did not mention NSA intercepts warning of the attacks the day before, but not translated until Sept. 12, 2001.

    In a January 5 article that documented Cheney's original claim, the Post also cited the September 11 Commission to report that "bureaucratic problems -- not a lack of information -- were primary reasons for the security breakdown," and that the "bigger problem" was that FBI investigators "had missed numerous opportunities to track" down Nawaf Alhazmi and Khalid Almihdhar, who went on to participate in the hijackings. That article also cited Rand Corp. terrorism expert Bruce Hoffman's assessment that, in the Post's words, Cheney's comments "ignore[d] the breadth of the government failures before the attacks."

    From the January 5 Post article:

    Cheney said if the administration had the power "before 9/11, we might have been able to pick up on two of the hijackers who flew a jet into the Pentagon."

    Even without the warrantless domestic spying program, however, the NSA and other U.S. intelligence agencies had important clues about the Sept. 11 plot and the hijackers before the attacks, according to media reports and findings by Congress and the commission.

    For example, the NSA intercepted two electronic messages on Sept. 10, 2001, that warned of the attacks -- but the agency failed to translate them until Sept. 12. The Arabic-language messages said "The match is about to begin" and "Tomorrow is zero hour," intelligence officials said.

    U.S. intelligence sources have said that NSA analysts were unsure who was speaking on the intercepts but that they were considered a high enough priority for translation within two days.

    Cheney's apparent reference to Alhazmi and Almihdhar is also incomplete, leaving out the fact that several government agencies had compiled significant information about the duo but had bungled efforts to track them.

    According to the Sept. 11 commission's report, released in 2004, the NSA first identified Alhazmi and Almihdhar in December 1999, passing the information to the CIA but conducting no further research.

    In 2000, the CIA failed to place Alhazmi and Almihdhar on a watch list despite their ties to a terrorist summit in Malaysia. The CIA also mishandled efforts to follow them after the summit and failed to share information about them with the FBI, including the crucial fact that both men had U.S. visas, the commission found.

    By late August 2001, the FBI finally had information that Almihdhar had recently entered the United States. But the search for the suspected al Qaeda operative was treated as routine and assigned to a rookie agent, according to the commission report.

    Bruce Hoffman, a terrorism expert who heads Rand Corp.'s Washington office, said it is unclear what communications could have been intercepted if the FBI and other agencies did not know where Alhazmi and Almihdhar were.

    Hoffman also said Cheney's comments ignore the breadth of the government failures before the attacks, which were due to structural problems rather than a single missed lead.

    "It's not that legislation was lacking; it was a systemic failure," he said.

    Yet many media outlets simply reported without challenge Hayden's suggestion that the Bush administration's domestic surveillance program could have identified the hijackers and their terrorist plot, while conservative media figures quickly adopted it, as the examples below illustrate.

    From a January 24 article in The Wall Street Journal titled "Wiretap Program Could Have Foiled 9/11, Hayden Says":

    The country's No. 2 spymaster said the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the U.S. could have been prevented if the Bush administration had in place a domestic surveillance system that has been criticized by civil libertarians and lawmakers on both sides of the aisle.

    In his speech to the National Press Club, Gen. Hayden, deputy director for national intelligence, outlined many themes that the White House is expected to use to defend the surveillance program. Chief among them is the argument that al Qaeda succeeded in striking the World Trade Center and Pentagon particularly because Washington didn't have the authority to quickly track telephone calls coming into the U.S. from suspected al Qaeda operatives in countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan.

    "Had this program been in effect prior to 9/11, it is my professional judgment that we would have detected some of the 9/11 operatives in the U.S., and we would have identified them as such," said Gen. Hayden, who last spring concluded six years as NSA director. He seized on recent threats by Osama bin Laden to attack the U.S. as proof that Washington needs extraordinary powers to respond.

    From a report by CBS White House correspondent John Roberts on the January 23 broadcast of the Evening News:

    ROBERTS: With congressional hearings set to start February 6, the White House has launched an aggressive campaign to rally support. Wednesday, President Bush goes to the NSA. Tomorrow the attorney general makes a public pitch. And today it was the former NSA chief, now deputy intelligence director, saying, "If only they'd had this before 9-11."

    HAYDEN [video clip]: Had this program been in effect prior to 9-11, it is my professional judgment that we would have detected some of the 9-11 Al Qaeda operatives in the United States.

    T R E A S O N

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:34pm

  140. Posted by PLUNGER 06/13/2006 @ 4:44pm | ignore this person

    WHERE in Virginia, PLUNGE?...where is that "field", where "American 77 crashed"?

    Posted by Mask at 06/13/2006 @ 7:36pm

  141. Posted by PLUNGER 06/13/2006 @ 4:44pm | ignore this person

    WHERE in Virginia, PLUNGE?...where is that "field", where "American 77 crashed"?

    Posted by MASK 06/13/2006 @ 7:36pm

    Don't know the answer to that one. Can't say where I learned it. Clearly it did not hit the Pentagon.

    http://no757.batcave.net/

    THIS EXPLAINS IT.

    The type of aircraft and engines used to attack the Pentagon.

    This shows the Raytheon connection to 9/11.

    THE ANSWER:

    http://www.rense.com/general70/safe.htm

    It was this collaborative approach that led Jon and I to conclude that no 757 hit the Pentagon so we looked for alternatives. The only plane that made sense was either a 737 or an A3 Skywarrior, both of which can use the same types of jet engines up to a point.

    The wing span of most 737 jets fall into the range of between 93.0 ft and 112.6 ft which is still 19 feet to 38 feet of wing that cannot be accounted for in impacting the face of the Pentagon before it mysteriously disappeared. When the absence of surface impacts and the size of a 737 including height of the tail are weighed, it is probable that a smaller plane was used to affect the attack on the Pentagon.

    I defy anyone to find an A3 Skywarrior in the hands of any Arab terrorist on 9-11 or any other day. There are only three sources of those jets: 1.) a few (3 to 6) remaining in USAF inventory; or 2.) Davis Monthan AFB where many jets are stored due to lack of humidity; or 3.) the fleet of 12-15 once owned by Hughes and now controlled by Raytheon after that corporation acquired Hughes.

    Jon Carlson and I are convinced that the plane used to attack the Pentagon is an old USAF / Navy plane designated as the A3 Skywarrior.

    The wingspan of an A3 is 74 feet and in the Navy version the wings were designed to fold up for storage on an aircraft carrier (visible on the drawing above). At a distance, painted like an American Airlines plane, this plane would easily be mistaken for a 737, 757, 767 type of aircraft because the two engines hang under the wing but are of far smaller dimensions than the 9 foot diameter jets on a 757 that not only hang under the wing but also hang lower than the bottom of the fuselage.

    That is an important point because there were no marks on the Pentagon lawn of those two jet engines dragging the ground and they would have based on how low the Pentagon was hit. Said another way, forget about the fuselage dragging on the ground. The engines of a 757 would have been plowing the Pentagon lawn but that did not happen.

    The wingspan of a 757 is 124 feet 10 inches. The width of the overall opening, even what is visible as possible wing marks slamming into the face of the building is closer to 74 feet than it is 124 feet 10 inches. In short, there is 50 feet missing to substantiate the Official Lie put out by Washington, DC as to what hit the Pentagon. Said another way, there is 25 feet on each side of the centerline of the strike point (that 14-16 foot hole left in the side of the Pentagon) that left no evidence of a wider wing span 757 hitting the building.

    They also cannot (or more appropriately will not) explain what happened to the two 9 foot diameter engines that mysteriously disappeared. Some official government sources claim that the fire was so hot it melted the engines to nothing, yet they claim they found DNA of the passengers. That math does not compute, or the science either.

    I remember the first conversation I had with Karen Kwiatkowski, a retired Lieutenant Colonel who was in the Pentagon that day. She is the lady that went public about the Office of Special Plans where they were falsifying the intelligence regarding Iraq. She vividly remembers being downstairs and around the corner in about 10 minutes to help get people out and the FBI agents were at the CITGO station confiscating the video tapes of what hit the Pentagon.

    Other eyewitnesses have stated that they smelled explosives such as cordite, not burning jet fuel. Those were military witnesses that know that exploded ordnance smells like.

    What little video evidence there is does show a white trail of smoke before the Pentagon explosion. Jet fuel burns dark at sea level and jets do not leave white contrails at sea level. What does leave a white trail of smoke at all elevations is the solid fuel of a rocket, Thiokol in most rockets being the type of solid fuel.

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:54pm

  142. ONE THING...

    JUST ONE THING CAN END ALL THIS.

    It won't be a new Congress, it won't be a "Victory In Iraq," it won't be a negotiated settlement...nope, none of those things will STOP THIS MADNESS.

    THE ONE THING...

    THE ONLY THING...

    THE ONLY THING THAT CAN BRING AN END TO THIS REIGN OF US GOVERNMENT SPONSORED TERROR IS TO EXPOSE THE TRUTH OF

    US DOMESTIC GOVERNMENT SPONSORED TERROR AGAINST THE CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES.

    Nothing else will shock a sleeping nation out of its complacency and alert the entire world to the fact that

    WE THE PEOPLE KNOW WHO WAS BEHIND 9/11...

    and it was US.

    Read this - all of it - parts ONE and TWO.

    THE END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS

    Prior Knowledge and Government Involvement in the Terrorist Attacks of September 11th 2001

    PART 1: THE TERRORIST ALLIANCE: BIN LADEN, AL QAEDA, AND THE CIA

    By Paul Joseph Watson

    http://www.propagandamatrix.com/end_justifies_means.html

    Print it out.

    Take it to the beach.

    Absorb it all.

    Imagine the realization by the country music fans (who've been duped into believing that Iraq = Bin Laden = 9/11) - whose sons and daughters are the essential cannon-fodder to feed the war machine...imagine their outrage when the point of recognition is reached - when we all learn through irrefutable evidence - that our own Government attacked us on 9/11.

    No one hates being made to look "stupid" worse than a common man of high moral character.

    The reality is that Rumsfeld recruited Country music to do his bidding.

    "The Pentagon will hold a massive march and country music concert to mark the fourth anniversary of 9/11, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said."

    THE BRAINWASHING - VIA I-POD:

    Darryl Worley - Have You Forgotten

    CHORUS 1 Have you forgotten how it felt that day To see your homeland under fire And her people blown away?

    Have you forgotten when those towers fell?

    We had neighbors still inside Going through a living hell And we vowed to get the ones behind Bin Laden

    Have you forgotten?

    I've been there with the soldiers Who've gone away to war

    And you can bet that they remember Just what they're fighting for

    IT'S ALL A LIE.

    A recent Zogby poll proclaims that 85% of active duty troops in Iraq believe they are fighting to avenge the attacks of 9/11.

    THERE IS NO BIN LADEN.

    IT'S ALL A LIE.

    When these people learn the truth...that the NeoNazi Globalist/Zionist Cabal inside our own government attacked us on 9/11 - there won't be enough lamp posts in DC to accomodate all the lynchings.

    Posted by plunger at 06/13/2006 @ 7:57pm

  143. Come on moonbats admit it. You have had a really sucky last week. Ca-50, Zarqawi gets to see US special forces before he travels to hell, Rove not going to jail, Bush in Bagdad and NOW Ward Churchill is getting canned and the icing on the cake is we get to watch the spectacle of Daryl Hannah making an idiot of herself in a frigging tree!!! Please, please keep thinking that Cheney is next...God I love you knucleheads

    Posted by vrwc at 06/13/2006 @ 8:25pm

  144. Right on VRWC

    Posted by fukulibz at 06/13/2006 @ 8:27pm

  145. Wow. Someone needs to send Fuklibs a case of Preperation H or something that soothes that itchy ass. What a crank.

    Posted by JRJunior at 06/13/2006 @ 9:32pm

  146. and she is happy with that too, JR. she knows that so many people who for example oppose the iraq war will feel as if there is nowhere to go, that our choices are: give her our vote for free, and lie down to be walked on for years more to come, or not participate in the election system.

    the democratic party is to the american left what the mafia is to your neighborhood: a menacing racket that tries to force you to support it and that stomps out any competition for control the moment it threatens to appear.

    Posted by ZERO 06/13/2006 @ 9:12pm

    I will not, under any circumstances, vote for H. Clinton.

    The DLC-supported apparatchik in my district was defeated for the nomination for Congressional representative. They popped this unknown in from nowhere with their 30 pieces of corporate silver. If he had won I would have written in Republican Pete McCloskey.

    Democratic Party elite- take heed. The blackmail is over.

    Posted by fromredbird at 06/13/2006 @ 9:33pm

  147. Wow. Someone needs to send Fuklibs a case of Preperation H or something that soothes that itchy ass. What a crank.

    Posted by JRJUNIOR 06/13/2006 @ 9:32pm

    He's a major league hemorrhoid who has dreams of becoming colon cancer. I suggest that you ignore him. It's a painless operation and it's humorous to watch his posts leak through other peoples posts. I imagine it's like watching someone scream while they're being suffocated with a plastic bag.

    Posted by fromredbird at 06/13/2006 @ 9:40pm

  148. but if it came down to hillary vs. mccain, what would you do?

    it's perplexing from the standpoint of someone (myself included) who is not a member of any party.

    Posted by darladoon at 06/13/2006 @ 9:40pm

  149. Plunger: you're a man of your word! You gave more names than I could handle! Just no charges, convictions or facts to back up you're idiotic theories! Please! There are enough Bush, white male, christian haters out there ( in academia, the media, and gov't ) to bring all these theories to light if they had any merit...which they don't! I commend you though, for all the research and effort, because if there was some conspiracy, we need people like you to root it out! Keep up the good work ( sicerely ) but for now...you got nothin'!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 9:44pm

  150. awwww, little annie has to change her name every week. why is that annie? fuklibz to fukulibz---less of a change than usual. what no 911 widows celebrating their hubbie's deaths to bash today? i suggest you spend less time here with your empty meaningless mental masturbation and go tell them directly to their face what you're spouting around the country right now. they'd cave your hideous face in even more than it already is.

    and annie, i notice how fragile you really are in every interview i've seen you in. you're really very pathetic. poor, pathetic bilious thing.....

    Posted by loveloki at 06/13/2006 @ 9:52pm

  151. Come on moonbats admit it. You have had a really sucky last week. Ca-50,

    Zarqawi gets to see US special forces before he travels to hell, after having the run of Iraq for THREE YEARS

    Rove not going to jail, Now, that's something a Republican would be expected to celebrate- a traitor escaping justice

    Bush in Bagdad but not enough guts to step outside the fortress; how about sneaks into Baghdad?

    and NOW Ward Churchill is getting canned and the icing on the cake is we get to watch the spectacle of Daryl Hannah making an idiot of herself in a frigging tree!!! major news stories only to someone who has nothing better to do than listen to rectum-ranters on talk radio

    Please, please keep thinking that Cheney is next...God I love you knucleheads

    Posted by VRWC 06/13/2006 @ 8:25pm

    Face it, Dilbert-without-the-job . . . the inconsequentiality of your victories are outweighed only by the depth of your emotional maladjustment.

    Posted by fromredbird at 06/13/2006 @ 9:57pm

  152. The BILE you LIBZ dish out to republicans and Bush the past 5 years is only being thrown back at you traitors. It doesnt taste too good does it???You think that might make you think twice before you sling your bile in the future??? I doubt it...So the war continues

    Posted by fukulibz at 06/13/2006 @ 10:00pm

  153. Becauseyousuckso, There you go changin' the language again! Nobondy's talkin' about immigrants...it's ILLEGALS that we are talking about! Second, I'd be a hypocrite if I hated immigrants since I am a second generation child of one! I don't attend church and am not a member of any religion! I lived and went to high school in an area of Ca. where whites were the MINORITY and the majority of my friends were of color! The only thing I fear concerning public education is the fact that it's dominated by liberals and I don't want my children brainwashed with their ideologies! I worked in the public school system in Ca. and what I saw horrified me. We could not discipline anyone! The disruptive students were back in class 10 min's after the were sent to the office! There were no consequences! The few bad apples spoiled the learning environment for everyone because of the mental disorder known as liberalism! Gangs rule the roost and our children are not protected, again....due to liberalism! As soon as the police try to crack down, they are called racists ( 95% of the gangs in L.A. are hispanic or asian ). So, with this being FACT, I think it is perfectly justifiable for one to want to give their children a learning environment that the liberals who control government and education in Ca. cannot and will not! If you don't like adults having options and a little control over their children's lives, then I'd have to call you a dictator, communist, Marxist, or just plain out a LUNATIC!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 10:00pm

  154. but if it came down to hillary vs. mccain, what would you do?

    it's perplexing from the standpoint of someone (myself included) who is not a member of any party.

    Posted by DARLADOON 06/13/2006 @ 9:40pm

    In that case I would write in Russ Feingold. Two bad choices is a good reason to make a third choice.

    Posted by fromredbird at 06/13/2006 @ 10:02pm

  155. Man I hope I get a chance meeting with Churchill one of these days! It will be fun, fun, fun! A little payback on behalf of the the little Eichmans! That lowlife hero of the LEFT crossed the line!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 10:03pm

  156. Posted by PLUNGER 06/13/2006 @ 7:54pm | ignore this person

    You'll never find that "field in Virginia", PLUNGER.

    Left and Right here agree....you're a clinical paranoid, probably with a mild delusional state.

    Get help.

    Posted by Mask at 06/13/2006 @ 10:22pm

  157. in montana, the anti-war candidate, tester, was predicted to lose. the dlc did not support him. he won the primary by a landslide.

    Posted by loveloki at 06/13/2006 @ 10:37pm

  158. Hillary is not the dems' pres candidate for 2008, I am.

    see how premature all your hysteria about Hillary is? she is running for senate in my home state. my downstairs neighbor Jonathan Tassini is trying to challenge her for the nomination on an anti war platform. I support him in that.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/13/2006 @ 10:39pm

  159. hopefully tester will win by a landslide again in november against conrad the corrupt con man.

    Posted by loveloki at 06/13/2006 @ 10:39pm

  160. Another Dem. former Gov. ( i think from La. ) got busted for tax evasion! Talk about the culture of corruption! But, just like William jefferson , the media will do a drive-by on this one and it will disappear by the end of the week so they can focus on more important issues, like attacking Bush, our soldiers or some other Republican!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 10:42pm

  161. These Dem.'s are always tellin' us that we need to pay more taxes, " for education, health care, and the poor", and yet they keep gettin' busted for not payin' em' themselves! Hypocrites of the highest order! I'm still waiting for the left to condemn this man's actions!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/13/2006 @ 10:46pm

  162. hopefully tester will win by a landslide again in november against conrad the corrupt con man.

    Posted by LOVELOKI 06/13/2006 @ 10:39pm | ignore this person

    Loki,

    Salute! Congratulations! Our anti-war candidate in VA also claimed victory today in the primary. I'm not saying he is my ideal, but for VA, Jim Webb is a capable of defeating that Bush-like zombie, George Allen. Webb used to be a republican (creepy) but has been a vocal critic of the war well before it was launched.

    Posted by Oustbush at 06/13/2006 @ 11:43pm

  163. congrats to you as well oustbush! that is more good news. i hate to jinx things and i'm hesitant to trust any politician....but tester seems to be a really great guy.

    Posted by loveloki at 06/13/2006 @ 11:51pm

  164. still waiting for someone to condemn the tax-dodging of that former Dem governor of La.!i guess it's ok with the " anything goes as long as their Democrats" types!

    Posted by barry25 at 06/14/2006 @ 12:06am

  165. "Jim Webb is a capable of defeating that Bush-like zombie, George Allen"

    Another very silly wetdream

    Posted by fukulibz at 06/14/2006 @ 12:08am

  166. What a shitty thread. What are you up to Barry, 50 posts? Pleasantly absent are the ramblings from Fuklibs, an appropriate spokesman for the lunatic right. Bye-bye Barry. Nice knowing ya. Enjoy the circle jerk.

    Posted by Hman23 at 06/14/2006 @ 12:34am

  167. The fact of the matter is Patrick Fitzgerald could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt to prosecute Carl Rove even though Rove was part of exposing the CIA agent..i.e. e-mail, letters.. any form of documentation etc. etc..Roves exposure was probably all by word of mouth...

    Posted by djmarch at 06/14/2006 @ 08:39am

  168. P.S......No one knows what deals were made behind closed doors..Kinda puts the burden on Cheney now doesn't it ?

    Posted by djmarch at 06/14/2006 @ 08:42am

  169. Posted by RESE 06/14/2006 @ 04:41am | ignore this person

    Find me that "field in Virginia" where "American 77 crashed", RESE....then we'll talk.

    Posted by Mask at 06/14/2006 @ 09:02am

  170. As noted in an earlier post, it seems the target of "Plame-gate" will now be shifted oh-so-subtlely over to Dick Cheney.

    No doubt we'll now see Mr.s Corn and Nichols endlessly discussing how Fitzgerald may go after Cheney and how the "Dem Congress" will investigate and link Cheney to the outing of Plame.

    And a year, 18 months from now....when that fizzles....we'll get endless "question still linger" articles.

    Posted by Mask at 06/14/2006 @ 09:05am

  171. Plunger: you're a man of your word! You gave more names than I could handle! Just no charges, convictions or facts to back up you're idiotic theories! Please! There are enough Bush, white male, christian haters out there ( in academia, the media, and gov't ) to bring all these theories to light if they had any merit...which they don't! I commend you though, for all the research and effort, because if there was some conspiracy, we need people like you to root it out! Keep up the good work ( sicerely ) but for now...you got nothin'!

    Posted by BARRY25 06/13/2006 @ 9:44pm |

    Barry,

    While I highly doubt your sincerity, check out the following link:

    http://www.projectcensored.org/

    Click on the story at the left that looks like this:

    "The Global Dominance Group

    The leadership class in the US is now dominated by a neo-conservative group of people with the shared goal of asserting US military power worldwide. This global dominance group..."

    Then download the PDF and print it out and read every word.

    You want to know what is REALLY going on and who is REALLY calling the shots (at a paygrade far above Bush) - read and learn.

    Note at the end of the document it lists all of the powerful organizations and the names of each individual involved in the global power structure.

    You asked for names - here they are.

    When you're done reading it, let me know what you think...

    Assuming you were sincere.

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 09:14am

  172. Posted by RESE 06/14/2006 @ 04:41am | ignore this person

    Find me that "field in Virginia" where "American 77 crashed", RESE....then we'll talk.

    Posted by MASK 06/14/2006 @ 09:02am

    Rese didn't make that claim (and you clearly know that) - I did.

    Whether or not you "talk about it" is irrelevant.

    The fact that you prefer that others NOT TALK ABOUT IT...

    Now that's relevant!

    Got free speech?

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 09:17am

  173. If THRAWN pops his puny little head over the parapet and I miss it, would someone be so kind as to orient his attention to my response to him? Thanks in adavance.

    Now to business: Inside every virulent rightwinger, angrily baying for blood, there is a monster like Tim McViegh or Mohammed Atta. This is why rigthwingers are so hysterical in their "kill-them-all" attitudes, since when they see an Atta they are seeing the shadowy, bearded version of their fanatical, hateful selves. There is nothing that rightwingers love like indiscriminant violence since it excuses their own in advance.

    THRAWN's sheer lunatic right-wing idiocy, breifly catalogued below, is an examplar of this rightwing disease that we need to eradicate in our day.

    I acknowledge that is unfair, in a way, for me to treat THRAWN's anus like my private toy since I am obviously acting out my full-spectrum superiority over him. He does not know this topic as well as I do --- obvious to any reader --- relying as he does on the wikipedia and a book by some creep that he's never even for his wild, yet doctrinaire assetions. But I am making this demonstration because although THRAWN does not know his ass from his elbow about the topic, he gets fully carried away with the anti-human rights and anti-human being rightwing storyline to carry his sorry excuse for threadbare argumentation.

    Let's look at particulars:

    Their ties to both the USSR and to Cuba provide powerful evidence that they were understood (and understood themselves) to be acting as a beachhead for the kinds of revolutions that the USSR had systematically been encouragin. This alone justified acting against the regime.

    The only beachhead that Nicaraugua was used for was in 1962 when Kennedy launched the Bay of Pigs fiasco from Somoza's compliant backwater plantation of pre-FSLN Nicaragua.

    I challenge THRAWN to demonstrate that tiny, impoverished Nicaragua had material plots against the United States --- and, no, John Milius' feverish imagination in RED DAWN does not count. You cannot make such a demonstration because there were no such plots. Moreover, the ties with Cuba and the UUSR were predictable for being threatened by the hemispheric hegemon. Mexico also tends to have strong ties with Cuba as well, altough THRAWN is silent on when contra-style terror should be dispatched to Mexico City.

    I also challenge THRAWN to demonstrate that the contras were mere nuisances rather than the vicious killers that they were; during their rampages through Nicaragua, the contras arguably made al-Queda look amatuer, aside from being far less spectacularly media savvy than their bearded fellow rightwing violence addicted fiends.

    While he does not say it, THRAWN also implies that the attacks against Nicaragua --- that included mining the harbor around Managua --- were legal actions. Cite the salient part of international law, in that case from, say, the UN Charter. THRAWN, also please explain the salience of the Boland Ammendment to your wild verbal shooting spree. If you need to bone up on the topic, there is no better volume than Theodore Draper's magisterial 800-page account (A VERY THIN LINE). A highly respected historian (and recently deceased---perhaps wikiepdia has an obit?), Draper was no friend of the FSLN. In any event, real scholarlship such as Draper's kind of puts your five minute forays into the wikipedia into the laughable category.

    Also notice that the US has long launched operations against Cuba to assassinate Castro and harm the population (bio weapons against livestock, counterfeit money to generate inflation). A good source on this is Jonathan Kwitny's chapter on Cuba in ENDLESS ENEMIES. A superb reporter, Kwitny wrote for a celebrated Marxist-Leninist scandel sheet before he died too young; the scandel sheet was called WALL STREET JOURNAL.

    First, the Sandinistas had some pretty hefty human rights violations themselves.

    Nauseating. Rightwng lunatic shitbums wipe their bloody shoes on human rights as if it was their birthright -- and then have the audacity to invoke them only as a rhetorical convenience. This goes beyond relativism into a creepy and macabre schizophrenic division when rightwingers simultaneously defend El Savador's chamber of horrors while idignantly haranguing abou the FSLN.

    THRAWN, explain how Sandinist Nicaragua was in the same fucking universe as El Salvador (slaugetering whole villages) or Argentina (training the contras, while dropping oponenants out of helicopters over the Atlantic) were contemporaneous "hefty human rights abuses" is concerned. If one follows Amnesty International, one knows its oppositon to the death penalty; so, on this view, was Texas a bigger human rights abuser than Nicaragua in the 1980s? By your charade of logic: Should the contras have been dispateched to Texas to slaughter civilians in defence of ... human rights?

    Leaving the regime alone would be preposterous, and landing troops in Nicaragua would pose its own problems...So, in order to accept Glenn's position, you have to accept one of two things. You can either contend that the Sandinista regime was a peaceful government that had no hostile ambitions against the US or its strategic position

    In fact, Nicaragua was minding its own business --- building schools and clinics, while conducting literacy campaigns --- aside from its aggressive ambitions in the aforementioned RED DAWN.

    Putting aside that THRAWN does not know shit abiout what he is saying factually, what is really notable here is the hateful Mohammed Atta mindset that informs THRAWN's conclusion: People are out to get me, kill them all, indiscrimantently, burn villages, shoot teachers, and then sanctify it in the hallowed language of a "human rights" campaign.

    Verily, THRAWN is ready for jihad. It's the same contempt for human existence that unites rigthwing fanatics bloodlust aginst innocent people, couched in some different but equally disgusting rationalizations (same shit, different flies).

    (which overwhelming evidence exists to contradict)

    He cites none, since if he believes it without any reason to do so, it must be all the more true.

    To finish, let's humor TRHAWN some so he does not angrily disappeer into his shell when there is more fun to be had at his long-widned expense:

    That's right THRAWN. We all remember the FSLN tanks sweeping through the streets of Miami, publically assassinating the mayor of Dallas and installing Ortega's 8 year old nephew in his place, the (non-existent) FSLN airforce leafletting OK City with demands in ... in ... in Cuban to surrender, among other horrors that feed your panics and fantasies ...

    Posted by GlennC.Lemon at 06/14/2006 @ 09:22am

  174. Conspiracy Flashback to the Ford Administration - and look who is running the ANTHRAX coverup...

    http://www.frankolsonproject.org/Articulations/Script-CodeNameArtichoke. html

    The conspiracy originated at the top, in the White House, initiated by Donald Rumsfeld and Richard Cheney. It had just been learned that the CIA allegedly drugged its employee Frank Olson with LSD before his supposed suicide.

    Rumsfeld and Cheney, heads of the White House chiefs of staff, at the time recommended to President Gerald Ford that he apologize to the family in the name of the government, and to support retribution. In order to prevent worse things from happening. That's the content of this White House memo:

    49.21 "There (is...) the possibility that it might be necessary to disclose highly classified national security information in connection with any court suit or legislative hearings."

    49.38 Ten days later, Ford hosted the Olson family and apologized. This allowed him to remain silent about state secrets – and the true reasons for Frank Olson's death.

    49.52 Voice of Eric Olson "What this means for me is that a national security homicide is not only a possibility, but really it is a necessity, when you have a certain number of ingredients together.

    If you are doing top secret work that is immoral, arguably immoral, especially in the post-Nuremberg period, and arguably illegal, and at odds with the kind of high moral position you are trying to maintain in the world, then you have to have a mechanism of security which is going to include murder."

    50.26 The two politicians who collaborated in the conspiracy in 1975, Rumsfeld and Cheney, are back in power. As vice president and secretary of defense of the government of the United States.

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 09:32am

  175. Posted by PLUNGER 06/14/2006 @ 09:17am | ignore this person

    So?....you guys are the same, both paranoids who go into "lock-up" when logic and reason are applied to your theories.

    As I noted to you several weeks ago now....Virginia is a lovely place to visit, PLUNGE...contact your "sources", find out where that "field where AA-77 crashed" is...and take some pics and post a link to them. Should help to convince all us "blind sheeple"!

    Posted by Mask at 06/14/2006 @ 09:52am

  176. Mask:

    Really, you don't want to know anything...just admit it.

    I don't blame you. Who would want to know that their own government attacked them on 9/11, and with Anthrax thereafter?

    It seems that only very few of us want to KNOW the truth.

    One thing is certain.

    It was NOT anyone named Bin Laden.

    Another thing is certain with respect to AA 77.

    It was NOT inside the Pentagon, nor was there any video of it striking the Pentagon.

    You don't want to know.

    I get it.

    "Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all."

    Michael Rivera

    The remnants of an A3 Skywarrior were found inside the Pentagon.

    No Seats.

    No Luggage.

    No Bodies.

    Nothing to see here...move along..

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 10:05am

  177. like bad currency that drives out good, certain blind hatred foulmouth posters are clogging up these threads and driving away adults who actually have something to say.of course I put them on ignore, as do most others. but I will go further, anyone who actually answers and engages these louts, such as fuk whatever, will also be ignored. this also goes for those who resort to schoolyard taunts and the like, you too will be ignored. I just don't have the time for such jejeune pranks.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/14/2006 @ 10:05am

  178. I seem to agree with MASK here that PLUNGER, though very well researched, uses a lot of conincidence and circumstance to build a rather elaborate conspiracy theory.

    On the surface, we know Cheney, Bush, and Rumsfeld are a group of arrogant, ignorant, power hungry conservatives, granted. But, with that, we also conclude there wasn't a brain smart enough or bright enough within the GOP our outside, to weave such a complicated international plot: fully stocked with Israeli intelligence, FBI, CIA, NSA, and FAA complicity.

    In fact, when you read 9/11 reports, you learn how inept and non-existent inter-agency communication was. You see each agency in a bitter dog-eat-dog political war for survival; clutching intelligence tight-fisted and white knuckled like any high-stakes poker match.

    No. The bureaucrats are far too stupid. Far too lazy. Far too territorial too pull off something as massive as what PLUNGER envisions.

    Rather, the string of almost comical (if it weren't so deadly) string of events is only certain proof of staggering incompetence from Republicans and Democrats, alike.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/14/2006 @ 10:23am

  179. In fact, when you read 9/11 reports, you learn how inept and non-existent inter-agency communication was. You see each agency in a bitter dog-eat-dog political war for survival; clutching intelligence tight-fisted and white knuckled like any high-stakes poker match.

    No. The bureaucrats are far too stupid. Far too lazy. Far too territorial too pull off something as massive as what PLUNGER envisions.

    Rather, the string of almost comical (if it weren't so deadly) string of events is only certain proof of staggering incompetence from Republicans and Democrats, alike.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO 06/14/2006 @ 10:23am

    Why would you have elected to read the 9/11 Commission Report if you truly wanted to know the truth?

    It is a work of fiction.

    Incompetence?

    They have pulled off a coup and you have lost your freedoms.

    And you don't even recognize it.

    Incompetence by design?

    Wake up and smell the facism.

    1,000 coincidences result in the most awesome attack on American soil...

    And you think I'm crazy?

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 10:29am

  180. Question for MASK (06/14/2006 @ 09:52am):

    I am not going to be boarding the PLUNGER express to all of its many stops. I believe that he should vastly condense his postings and vet the occasional and inexcusable anti-Semitic crap that does injury to (among other things) his own cause.

    That said, MASK, do you seriously believe that all the public should know about events such as the JFK assassination (and other high profile 1960s killings), Nixon's resignation, 1980's "(non)-October Surprise", and S11 have been adequately aired? Or are you committed to being in "case closed" mode?

    Posted by GlennC.Lemon at 06/14/2006 @ 10:35am

  181. "Inside every virulent rightwinger, angrily baying for blood, there is a monster like Tim McViegh or Mohammed Atta. "

    You are gone Glen..over the rainbow...what have you been eating and drinking?..my god, get help, I am sure there is some kind of support group near you. Save yourself before it is too late and YOU decide to run for office!!

    Posted by john maasch at 06/14/2006 @ 10:35am

  182. Posted by JOHN MAASCH (06/14/2006 @ 10:35am)

    What will you assert next, JOHN? Atta and al Queda are something other than clear as daylight rightwingers in their ideology?

    Posted by GlennC.Lemon at 06/14/2006 @ 10:45am

  183. Glenn:

    Please identify anything in my postings that you personally deem to be anti-semitic - and explain why.

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 10:47am

  184. Plunger---Captain of the tin foil hat team Plunger ----Got Lithium

    Posted by Len Mosse at 06/14/2006 @ 10:47am

  185. you are correct, Because. this misadministration has neither the competence or the brains to hatch such a complicated scheme. it would require far many more people to pull off than the 19 boxcutters. someone would have cracked and spilled by now. which is not to say that they are covering up shit all the time. but evil in this case is banal and not brilliant. WE don't have people willing to suicide for our materialist agenda, thank god.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/14/2006 @ 10:48am

  186. that they are not...

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/14/2006 @ 10:49am

  187. Glenn---Your comparison of right wing American politics to the militant right wing of the Islamic world is as valid as comparing Mao Tse Tung to Bill Clinton. The comparison shows a fundamental misunderstanding of politics and culture. Glenn---You usually show signs of rational thought---misguided but rational. What happened?

    Posted by Len Mosse at 06/14/2006 @ 10:58am

  188. Johannes, thank you for seeing my point. As evil as ENRON, MOBIL, and BUSHes are; we also know there is a limit to how cynnical they will be. Kill 3000 in the US as an excuse to launch a bloody rampage in the Middle East? Why?

    If you are a [fascist] Republican, you don't need an excuse to invade; you wrap yourself in the American flag, and with one hand on the Bible and the other on a Nuclear trigger, you just invade!

    I think the PLUNGERS of the world are very much like fundamentalists. They believe in a higher order that can help explain what is otherwise, unexplainable. Some turn to Biblical stories for answers. PLUNGER turns to equally fantastic conspiracy stories. It helps PLUNGER sleep; and since he's off the Haldol, I think he needs all the relaxation he can get.

    Yes, we've lost just about all of the rights guaranteed in the Bill of Rights. But, it's not a conspiracy, it's sheer idiocy and greed that got us here! Which is actually good news: it won't be too hard to fix come November.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/14/2006 @ 11:00am

  189. Funny how everyone runs away from the word "Conspiracy" when Ralph, Reed, Grover Norquist, Scooter Libby, Jack Abramoff, Tom DeLay, Larry Franklin and AIPAC's top two are all charged with "Conspiracy."

    It's a legal term.

    The AIPAC Case vs. the Public's Right to Know?

    On January 20, U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis sentenced former Pentagon analyst Lawrence A. Franklin to 12 years in prison for violating laws governing the handling of secret information, including conspiracy to communicate national defense information to persons not entitled to receive it, conspiracy to communicate classified information to an agent of a foreign government, and the unlawful retention of national defense information. The case involved efforts by Franklin, an anti-Iran analyst, to push the United States to take a stronger stance against the Islamic Republic by passing classified information about U.S. policies and supposed threats in the Middle East to two experts at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), a powerful pro-Israel lobby group which has pushed for stronger U.S. action against Iran. The two AIPAC experts, Steven Rosen and Keith Weissman, allegedly took this information to Israeli officials and newspaper reporters. According to the Washington Post (January 21), Franklin is expected to testify against the AIPAC experts at their trial, which is scheduled for April.

    While the sentencing provided few new details about the secretive case, according to an August 9, 2005 Justice Department indictment, Rosen and Weissman had been under investigation since as early as 1999 for attempting to influence U.S. government officials and using their contacts to acquire sensitive information. The indictment mentions a second U.S. government official, referred to as "USGO-2," who is alleged to have given classified information to Rosen in 2002. According to the Post (August 18, 2005), people familiar with the investigation have identified this official as David Satterfield, a high-ranking diplomat at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad. Two other U.S. officials, "USGO-1" and "DOD-B," are alleged in the indictment to have given information to the AIPAC analysts.

    http://rightweb.irc-online.org/rw/3112

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 11:05am

  190. The LENS and MAASCH's of the world can take comfort: their party's votes to Amend the Constitution to bash gays; their staunch support for a bloated deficit; their unwavering support for CIA leaks; and their unyielding efforts to remove any last remnants of individual privacy are all in evidence and cannot, nor will not be spun as "patriotism" or "bravery".

    The complete cowardice of the Republican party to giveaway civil rights to "feel safer" underscores the lack of leadership from the Right.

    November, those who shred US freedoms while waging reckless wars in the name of "freedom" for foreigners WILL be purged.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/14/2006 @ 11:08am

  191. http://forums.therandirhodesshow.com/index.php?s=26b433b51b3e736a08fb2c3 2f17f4bd8&showtopic=88411&pid=862331&st=0&#entry862331

    The Coincidence Theorist's Guide to 9/11

    That governments have permitted terrorist acts against their own people, and have even themselves been perpetrators in order to find strategic advantage is quite likely true, but this is the United States we're talking about.

    That intelligence agencies, financiers, terrorists and narco-criminals have a long history together is well established, but the Nugan Hand Bank, BCCI, Banco Ambrosiano, the P2 Lodge, the CIA/Mafia anti-Castro/Kennedy alliance, Iran/Contra and the rest were a long time ago, so there's no need to rehash all that. That was then, this is now!

    That Jonathan Bush's Riggs Bank has been found guilty of laundering terrorist funds and fined a US-record $25 million must embarrass his nephew George, but it's still no justification for leaping to paranoid conclusions.

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 11:08am

  192. Posted by PLUNGER 06/14/2006 @ 10:05am | ignore this person

    Find "the field", PLUNGER...prove me wrong, or even better prove yourself and www.israelownsyourdog.org right!

    Posted by Mask at 06/14/2006 @ 11:13am

  193. Because--If I'm a "fascist Republican" does that make you a communist democrat?

    "unyielding efforts to remove any last remnants of individual privacy" ---I bet you think the CIA and the NSA are watching you don't ya. Last remnants you say---I officially nominate you for a leadership postion in the tin hat brigade.

    When you make off the wall outrageous statements you only hurt your own cause. Conseratives can point at you and say--See--I told you they were nuts.

    Posted by Len Mosse at 06/14/2006 @ 11:18am

  194. Posted by GLENNC.LEMON 06/14/2006 @ 10:35am | ignore this person

    GLENN, like "the Dark Side of the Force", once you go down the path of Conspiracy, forever dominate your life, it will--Yoda.

    For 40 years now, people have been offering views on JFK's death, many contradictory, all unproven...and all based on the proposition that a President who ran on a "missile gap" (i.e. Ike was "weak on defense"), authorized a 3rd party invasion of Cuba, and went "eyeball-to-eyeball" over IRBMs in Cuba, and boosted troops to Vietnam....was going to ignore his own Robert McNamara (the guy who later counseled LBJ) and was NOT going to "go into Vietnam"....and ergo needed offing by Dupont and Bell Helo.

    As for the October 1980 "Bush-41 SR-71 trip to Iran"....Gary Sick has never offered ONE shred of evidence for that, nor any explanation for how NOBODY in any intelligence gathering agency (us or the Europeans or the at-that-time Soviets) spotted an SR-71 landing at Teheran Airport....seems Ahmadinejad would be posting the pictures of that on Al-Jazeera NOW to embaress Bush-43, no?

    Go down the "Dark Path" of RESE/PLUNGE if you want....until you save Luke from the Emperor, it'll ruin your life!

    Posted by Mask at 06/14/2006 @ 11:19am

  195. PLUNGER: Exactly

    Johnathan Bush's bank laundered terrorist funds for the money, not because of some "conspiracy". It is called stupidity and greed - not maliciousness.

    Neil Bush's Colorado Savings and Loans defaulted, and required Reagan to issue a $2 billion dollar bailout - in 1988 dollars! But, again, it's not because the Bush's hate Americans. No. It's because the Bush's are greedy and don't give a damn who gets hurt. But, again, it's not a "larger" conspiracy to kill Americans. It's simply greed. And, greed leads to shoddy work and dangerous results.

    If as a car mechanic I cheap out on your next brake job, and you die from it. It was NOT a conspiracy to kill you!!! It was a conspiracy to cheap out on the work and make myself some money. You may, or may not die. I don't care if you do, or don't. But, I did not actively go out to kill you, though it may certainly seem that way.

    Plunger, you must stop interpreting the collateral damage of greed and inferring the damage itself was the intended goal: it was not!

    Only the easy money was the goal. The damage is the "undesirable" by-product of unabated greed and arrogance. Like New Orleans, the damage from GOP arroagance and greed could be predictable, incalculable and/or catastrophic: but by definition, not plannable.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/14/2006 @ 11:21am

  196. Plunger, you must stop interpreting the collateral damage of greed and inferring the damage itself was the intended goal: it was not!

    Only the easy money was the goal. The damage is the "undesirable" by-product of unabated greed and arrogance. Like New Orleans, the damage from GOP arroagance and greed could be predictable, incalculable and/or catastrophic: but by definition, not plannable.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO 06/14/2006 @ 11:21am

    What does the AIPAC/Franklin Spy Conspiracy have to do with Bush Greed? Franklin was the Iran Desk chief within the Pentagon - yet he was in every meeting of the WHIG in the lead-up to the invasion of Iraq. Why?

    So how do you attribute this to Bush Greed?

    Explain this:

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spyring.html

    http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/HTML%20Pages/ABCNEWS_com_Were_Israel is_Detained_Sept_11_Spies.htm

    http://ww1.sundayherald.com/print37707

    Now can you help me out with a plausible explanation for this:

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.htm

    And this official DEA report:

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/deareportisraelispying.html

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html

    http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/Artstudents.htm

    http://killtown.blogspot.com/2005/11/dancing-israelis-on-911.html

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 11:31am

  197. When you make off the wall outrageous statements you only hurt your own cause. Conseratives can point at you and say--See--I told you they were nuts.

    this works both ways, Mosse. and I'm not suggesting you as one of the offenders

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/14/2006 @ 11:35am

  198. Don't you believe that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and others Conspired (under the coordinated efforts of Rove and WHIG) to place knowingly false information into the public media for the purpose of invading Iraq and "selling US a war?"

    Clearly that occured.

    Was it for financial gain?

    Of course it was.

    But it was for power, control and for Israel as well.

    Was there a conspiracy to mislead the public and the Congress into war?

    What else would you call it?

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 11:36am

  199. Mosse, if you persist in calling Nichols "littel Johnny Nichols", we may have to call you "little Lennie Mosse. simple enough.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/14/2006 @ 11:39am

  200. Ledeen:

    A fellow at the conservative American Enterprise Institute, Ledeen holds a Ph.D. in History and Philosophy from the University of Wisconsin. In 1983, on the recommendation of Richard Perle, Ledeen was hired at the Department of Defense as a consultant on terrorism. While being investigated as a security risk by his supervisor, Noel Koch, it was learned from the CIA station that Ledeen had been carried in Agency files as an agent of influence of a foreign government: Israel.

    After having his access to classified materials blocked he ceased working there. He next appeared at the National Security Council as a consultant working with NSC head Robert McFarlane. Ledeen was involved in the transfer of arms to Iran during the Iran-Contra affair -- an adventure that he documented in the book "Perilous Statecraft: An Insider's Account of the Iran-Contra Affair." A prominent member of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA) board of governors and the Center for Security Policy (CSP), he advocates "total war" inline with the "Grand Strategy for the Middle East" which advocates "Iraq as the tactical pivot, Saudi Arabia as the strategic pivot and Egypt as the prize." Ledeen is presently a serving member on the China Commission and, with the support of DOD Undersecretary for Policy Douglas Feith, he has since 2001 been employed as a consultant for the Office of Special Plans OSP). He is involved in the handling of classified materials and has high-level security clearances. He was also involved in election rigging of the 2000 election.

    http://www.nogw.com/warforisrael.html

    COINCIDENCE?

    NOT:

    Through his ties to Rove and Deputy National-Security Adviser Stephen Hadley, Michael Ledeen was also wired into the White House Iraq Group, which was charged with marketing an invasion of Iraq.

    Ledeen claims, as he told the Web site Raw Story, that he had strongly advised against the plan, saying that the invasion of Iraq was the "wrong war, wrong time, wrong way, wrong place." But the truth is somewhat more complicated. Ledeen had urged regime change in Iraq since 1998, and just four hours after the 9/11 attacks he posted an article on the National Review Web site urging Bush to take "the fight directly to Saddam on his own territory."

    But to Ledeen, Iraq was just one part of a larger war. As he later told a seminar, "All this talk about first we are going to do Afghanistan, then we will do Iraq … that is entirely the wrong way to go about it." He urged Americans not to try to "piece together clever diplomatic solutions to this thing, but just wage a total war against these tyrants."

    In January 2003, two months before the war started, he wrote, "If we were serious about waging this war, we would, at an absolute minimum, support the Iranian people's brave campaign against their tyrants … and recognize an Iraqi government in exile in the 'no fly' zones we control. … If we don't, we may well find ourselves facing a far bigger problem than Saddam alone."

    Ledeen repeatedly urged war or destabilization not just in Iraq but also in Iran, Syria, Lebanon, even Saudi Arabia. "One can only hope that we turn the region into a cauldron, and faster, please," he wrote. "Faster, please" became his mantra, repeated incessantly in his National Review columns.

    http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=134&contentid=3587 &page=2

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 11:42am

  201. Not to keep harping on someone obviously mentally ill, but...

    you guys ever notice how PLUNGER (and RESE) never offer any SOLUTIONS?

    They never explain what the alternatives are....or how, given the vast power of "The Cabal", how they are to be stopped by a bunch of bloggers at www.illuminatirunMcDonalds.net

    Are they "Greens" or "Libertarians"? Do they think "The Cabal" CAN'T control the voting machines (even "mainstream" conspiracy theorist are into "Diebold stole Ohio")? Do they imagine the DEMOCRATS are going to wipe away AIPAC and gut funding to Israel?

    Where are their solutions?....answer?...they don't exist. Because any solution they'd offer, would be CONTRADICTED by their own statements of the "power of the Cabal".

    So...endlesss "explanations" of the "Conspiracy", but no solutions or defenses against it.

    Posted by Mask at 06/14/2006 @ 12:11pm

  202. mask, there are conspiracies and there are conspiracies. some are more plausible than others. election shenanigans in Ohio, very likely and probable, WTC attack, not so likely. Rese and Plunger, who incidentally are on the ignore list, are one trick ponies, and tedious ones at that. just walk on by.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/14/2006 @ 12:15pm

  203. Mask:

    I have offered a solution.

    Exposing the entire truth of 9/11 IS THE ONLY SOLUTION.

    Nothing else will awake the sleeping giant that is the complacency of the American Electorate, brought about by years of conditioning by the Controlled Corporate Media.

    If the truth of 9/11 is revealed, it's pitchforks and torches time.

    Anything short of that is just rearranging the deck chairs on the USS Constitution.

    What is your solution?

    Or don't you perceive a problem?

    Can you explain how it is that Michael Ledeen went from being "an agent of influence of a foreign government: Israel" according to his FBI files - to becoming a Central Figure within the Office Of Special Plans within the DOD?

    That's not a problem?

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 12:18pm

  204. By all means...ignore.

    Nothing to see here (except you Constitution if flames)...move along...

    Hey, look over there...it's Jimmy Hoffa!

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 12:20pm

  205. (your Constitution in flames)

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 12:20pm

  206. "Bullshit and Blather spewed by another nitwit from the MINORITY party"

    you are a true moron. What grade did you drop out of school in?

    Posted by rmjlattanzi at 06/14/2006 @ 12:34pm

  207. Posted by PLUNGER 06/14/2006 @ 12:18am | ignore this person

    Expose???....what "expose"? You come to a safe left-wing blog and post about the "evil neo-con right-wing Cabal".

    And the LEFT is ignoring you (see JOHANNESROLF, etc)!

    You conspiracy guys have been at this for 5 years...and it's gotten you NOWHERE to be "cut & pasting" and "blogging". How about a REAL solution, PLUNGE?

    Posted by Mask at 06/14/2006 @ 12:42pm

  208. Posted by JOHANNESROLF 06/14/2006 @ 12:15am | ignore this person

    Actually, JOHANN, even "Diebold stole Ohio" takes some fantastical thinking...like the idea that "Rove KNEW that Ohio would be the key state this time, not Florida...and rigged the machines THERE"...and of course, you have to leap out further and say that "Diebold stole +3 Million plus votes" (Bush's popular over Kerry), otherwise you admit that while Kerry would have won the electoral college, Bush would (like Gore) be the "real President" after 2004.

    Posted by Mask at 06/14/2006 @ 12:45pm

  209. "The LENS and MAASCH's of the world can take comfort: their party's votes to Amend the Constitution to bash gays; their staunch support for a bloated deficit; their unwavering support for CIA leaks; and their unyielding efforts to remove any last remnants of individual privacy are all in evidence and cannot, nor will not be spun as "patriotism" or "bravery"...

    Lets parse..

    1. "their party's votes to Amend the Constitution to bash gays;"..I don't support it.

    2. " their staunch support for a bloated deficit;"..I don't support Bush liberal spending, ever and have stated so ad nauseum.

    3."their unwavering support for CIA leaks; " I don't support it...and Plame was as covert as was Wilson.

    4. "and their unyielding efforts to remove any last remnants of individual privacy"...I like my privacy..I don't care about Muhammad Attas right to privacy. In facgt, I wwish we could have taped and broadcasts his intentions prior to 9/11.

    The last part of statement is non sequitor. I can't think of anything I read by you that would line up with patriotism or bravery. Just far left rants.

    Therefore,as far as Len and Maasch's in the world... I don't know anyone described by you in your post.

    Posted by john maasch at 06/14/2006 @ 12:54pm

  210. Mask:

    You seem to have overlooked answering my challenge to you...

    What is your solution?

    Or don't you perceive a problem?

    Can you explain how it is that Michael Ledeen went from being "an agent of influence of a foreign government: Israel" according to his FBI files - to becoming a Central Figure within the Office Of Special Plans within the DOD?

    That's not a problem?

    Posted by PLUNGER 06/14/2006 @ 12:18am

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 1:00pm

  211. None would dare admit it, but I think that it's possible that some are actually frightened by Plunger's message, to the point that it's safer to write him off completely. To lend any credence to his implications would shake the very foundation of the things we want to believe about our nation, and, by extension, ourselves. It's unfortunate that many of our responses seem somewhat mean-spirited, but I think they may be a the result of a natural, defensive mechanism.

    Fit me for the Reynolds headgear if you wish, fellow posters, but much of what Mr. P. lays out for us is linear, and the product of a (frighteningly) vast amount of research. (Way more than I have the fortitude for.) Additionally, I have never witnessed him partaking in ad hominem attacks on anyone here, even in response to same. This is a standard to which few of us can lay claim.

    I would like for Plunger to be very, very wrong. But if the day comes that I find myself sequestered in one of the new Halliburton Hotels, I would much rather room with him than some faux-Christian, bullet-point-spewing, apologist insult artist.

    Now, have your way with me.

    Posted by drhammer at 06/14/2006 @ 1:05pm

  212. Because,

    "The complete goal of the Democratic party to guanrantee a check for every one "screwed somehow"in exchange for votes to "feel secure" and "solidify the I am a victum" underscores the lack of leadership from the Left.

    Just a little editing, see?

    Posted by john maasch at 06/14/2006 @ 1:08pm

  213. I would like for Plunger to be very, very wrong. But if the day comes that I find myself sequestered in one of the new Halliburton Hotels, I would much rather room with him than some faux-Christian, bullet-point-spewing, apologist insult artist.

    Now, have your way with me.

    Posted by DRHAMMER 06/14/2006 @ 1:05pm

    I wish I were wrong. I'd love to be proven wrong. You'd think if I was wrong, there would be volumes of evidence to prove me wrong available on the Internet, and I'd be bombarded with facts rather than mere sticks & stones.

    No one refutes what I post with facts and links to support their contentions.

    I think that your post was both honest and accurate.

    Fear has become a condition.

    Nothing is as it appears.

    Literally Nothing.

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 1:10pm

  214. Johannes---I haven't called John Nichols Little Johnny for a while now, but I am sure that the occasion will rise again. If you feel the need to defend him feel free---I am sure that he will appreciate it. As for calling me Little Len Mosse---kind of refreshing--I haven't been called little anything in a long while.

    John---I am in complete agreement with your last post. I take great pride in being a joint target with you Mr. Maasch. I guess we got their attention.

    Posted by Len Mosse at 06/14/2006 @ 2:01pm

  215. PLUNGER asks,

    Glenn: Please identify anything in my postings that you personally deem to be anti-semitic - and explain why. Posted by PLUNGER 06/14/2006 @ 10:47am

    Putting aside commentaries that make one uneasy in their implications, an explicit slap at Jewish people occurs under your name on 14 February 2006 at 12:05 PM with respect to Tax Day.

    Posted by GlennC.Lemon at 06/14/2006 @ 2:05pm

  216. Plunger----Got Lithium?

    Posted by Len Mosse at 06/14/2006 @ 2:06pm

  217. The Nation's headline for John Nichols' Cheney article is misleading since there is only Rove's attorney, Mr. Luskin, on record saying there will be no indictment of Karl Rove. It's maddening to watch the media jumping off the cliff with a statement from a man whose job is to make Rove look as guilt-free as possible before any good evidence is in.

    Attorney Christy Hardin Smith's most recent post at Firedoglake http://www.firedoglake.com/ notes Rove's attorney is a bit muddled in various reports about what form of communication he received from Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald. Besides that, as Smith also notes, Time magazine reports with this nugget, "Luskin had just received a fax from Patrick Fitzgerald, the special counsel in the case, saying that he was formally notifying Luskin that absent any unexpected developments, he does not anticipate seeking any criminal charges against Rove."

    Provocatively non-committal a statement as any politician could make, even this representation of Mr. Fitzgerald's communication is based only on Mr. Luskin's word, as Mr. Luskin has not provided a copy of whatever communication he's received, if any, from Mr. Fitzgerald.

    Reminiscent of the media's acceptance of the Warren Commission's reporting, among other, more recent, media reporting of reports, later proven false, it's just too much for me to even read Nichol's article. Whatever good research Mr. Nichols has done may be undermined by future reporting, if his article is reflective of The Nation's headline, so why make the investment in time and energy? I can wait a day or two or a few weeks for better info.

    Posted by trysm at 06/14/2006 @ 2:10pm

  218. Mosse, I just wanted to strike a blow to end pettiness here, I'm glad you seem to feel the same.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/14/2006 @ 2:16pm

  219. In reply to Posted by MASK 06/14/2006 @ 11:19am:

    You actually do not have the story straight as the alleged meeting between the Reagan Campaign and Iranian operatives has long been posited to have taken place in Paris and not in Tehran. In reviewing the theory, Kevin Phillips recently suggested that GHW Bush was not present (a revision of Gary Sick) but that future DCI William Casey was.

    Anyway, we don't know if any of this actually happened even if there are clues and testimonies that give the "October Surprise" story legs a generation later. I am claiming that these are theories: When evaluated with evidence, some turn out to be true or partly true while others can be demonstrated to be false. MASK appears to assume that we can assume no conspiracies in advance of the evidence, once it has been written off by being called a conspiracy in the first place.

    Posted by GlennC.Lemon at 06/14/2006 @ 2:17pm

  220. Mask

    As to voting irregularities, there are verified instances of at least one "extra" data card skewing results:

    see: http://tinyurl.com/oezpg

    Posted by leftofcenter at 06/14/2006 @ 2:21pm

  221. PLUNGER asks,

    Glenn: Please identify anything in my postings that you personally deem to be anti-semitic - and explain why. Posted by PLUNGER 06/14/2006 @ 10:47am

    Putting aside commentaries that make one uneasy in their implications, an explicit slap at Jewish people occurs under your name on 14 February 2006 at 12:05 PM with respect to Tax Day.

    Posted by GLENNC.LEMON 06/14/2006 @ 2:05pm

    "Commentaries that make one uneasy in their implications" IS NOT the same as "anti-Semitism" - which you have accused me of.

    You found a comment from four months ago? Nothing more recent?

    How did you find it and what did it say? In what context? Were they my own words or was I linking to an article? I have no recollection of posting anything relevant to tax day and I specifically avoid using the word "Jews" or engaging in speech that could be defined by the US State Department as "anti-semitic."

    Got a link to that purported anti-Semitic comment?

    As for the definition of "anti-Semitism" - this is what it IS, and what it's NOT:

    http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/spbr/40347.htm

    Global Anti-Semitism Report

    Acting Assistant Secretary for Democracy, Human Rights and Labor Ambassador Michael Kozak; Special Envoy for Holocaust Issues Ambassador Edward O'Donnell On-The-Record Briefing Washington, DC January 5, 2005

    Excerpts:

    AMBASSADOR KOZAK:

    In recent years, global anti-Semitism has had four main characteristics, all of which are interrelated: The first is the traditional anti-Jewish prejudice, which includes the views of ultranationalists and others who assert that the Jewish community controls governments, the media, international business and the financial world; we have also, more recently, seen anti-Jewish sentiment being expressed by growing Muslim communities in Europe; strong anti-Israel sentiment that crosses the line between objective criticism of Israel and its policies and demonization of Israel and Jews; and finally, criticism of the United States and globalization which spills over to the Jewish community which is seen as aligned with the United States.

    QUESTION: If it's possible to answer this, two questions. How much weight do you all give to the -- what is euphemistically called "the Arab-Israeli" conflict as a cause of anti-Semitism? The Europeans give a lot of weight to it. And I sense your report is a little -- finds it far more deep-rooted and, frankly, goes back about 3,500 years, before there was an Arab-Israeli conflict.

    And the other thing is, you don't touch on the UN, do you? And I wondered if there's any feeling, any findings, any review of the torrent of abuse and condemnation that is put on Israel's back and head by people at the UN all the time, even a UN official saying, I think at least once now, maybe twice, that Israel is the cause of all its problems -- a senior UN official. Is the UN a little bit guilty here of what you're saying a lot of countries are?

    AMBASSADOR KOZAK: Well, let me take a stab and then also have Ed take that.

    On the first part of the question of the Arab-Israeli conflict, I think as I tried to indicate in my remarks, and I think is pretty clear in the report, yes, anti-Semites use people's dissatisfaction with Israel's policy and their -- or their own situation, which they may attribute to Israeli policy, as a tool for promoting anti-Semitism. But we make a very clear distinction between criticism of Israeli policy, whether legitimate or illegitimate, that's (inaudible) just as people criticize our policy or some other country's policy, you know, that's one thing. Blaming it on the fact that Israel is tied to, you know, Judaism, both religiously and ethnically, is a completely different -- that's where you get into anti-Semitism, where you're demonizing a group of people because of their religious or ethnic background, not because of what they're doing.

    AMBASSADOR O'DONNELL:

    like Secretary Powell said, there certainly is room for legitimate criticism of Israel, but it goes beyond the bounds when it becomes -- it demonizes Israel's leaders and things like that.

    QUESTION: So you wouldn't characterize those UN resolutions as being anti-Semitic resolutions, would you? I have another question. I just want you to clarify that.

    AMBASSADOR KOZAK: No, I mean, if a resolution says Israel is bad because it has occupation troops or something, you can't say on its face that that's anti-Semitic. You can say it may be anti-Israeli, it may be motivated by anti-Semitism, but that's where it's, as I say, it's -- if it starts talking about Zionism as racism, that's a different case because you're now starting to go beyond a specific Israeli policy and are starting to demonize --

    QUESTION: Let me rephrase the question. Yesterday the Palestinian candidate, Mahmoud Abbas, called the Israelis "the Zionist enemy" in response to a shell that killed, you know, eight or nine kids. Now, would that be considered anti-Semitic? Would it be less anti-Semitism if he said the "Israeli enemy," considering that there was a war going on between Palestinians and Israelis? I mean, what is the proper way to address this issue, in your opinion?

    AMBASSADOR KOZAK: Enemy or entity? I didn't get the quote.

    QUESTION: "Zionist enemy," he said.

    AMBASSADOR KOZAK: Enemy?

    QUESTION: Right, yeah.

    AMBASSADOR KOZAK: Yeah.

    QUESTION: So is that anti-Semitic or is that inappropriate -- would it be -- would it have been less, you know, hurtful if he said "the Israeli enemy"?

    AMBASSADOR KOZAK: Yeah, I mean, it would be less able to be interpreted as an anti-Semitic remark. I'm not sure that Israelis would have welcomed it any more.

    QUESTION: But then, there is a war going on; in war there is enemies.

    AMBASSADOR KOZAK: Sure.

    QUESTION: Obviously, the Palestinians and the Israelis, there is an occupation going on and they are at war. They are enemies. What is the proper way to call them? When do you cross the line into anti-Semitism? How do you define it?

    AMBASSADOR KOZAK: To me, it's one thing if you say Israel, which with whom we are having this conflict, the state with which we are having a conflict, and we don't like the fact that they're occupying our territory and we're opposed to it, or however they want to phrase it, versus saying the Jews or the Zionists are doing this to us, which starts to attribute the unhappy -- or the behavior you're unhappy with to somebody's ethnic or religious background.

    It's the same difference between somebody saying, you know, the terrorists who are attacking -- who attacked New York and the Pentagon or who have attacked our forces in Iraq or something, versus saying the Muslim terrorists or the Islamics who do all of this, because you're starting then to demonize an entire group for the behavior of one part of them.

    QUESTION: Not to belabor the issue, but is the term "Zionist" derogatory? I mean, considering that you have a Zionist Organization of America. I mean, there are very proud Zionists in this country. So is that a derogatory term that ought to be equated with anti-Semitism?

    AMBASSADOR KOZAK: Again, you know, it's kind of you know it when you see it. You have to look at what the person saying it has -- what are they trying to convey.

    QUESTION: Yeah.

    AMBASSADOR KOZAK: And, you know, you can see it here in race relations, too. Sometimes one group of people using a term with their colleagues, it's actually a term of endearment; somebody else using it in a different context, it can be a very racist remark.

    So I'm not going to try to parse those kind of statements with you, but, you know, and would that it were that we were -- that that was the only problem was trying to get people to use nicer language. It's a much more serious problem.

    AMBASSADOR O'DONNELL: I think, if I just may, where I think we are on firm ground is when Israel is -- the denial of Israel's right to exist, or denial of the Holocaust or a double standard of Israel or demonizing Israel's leaders. These are examples -- demonizing Israel's leaders, for example, with a cartoon, a swastika, and so on -- those are the type of clear examples where I think it's commonly agreed that that becomes anti-Semitic.

    QUESTION: Okay. Ambassador O'Donnell just said demonizing Israel's leaders is a form of being anti-Semitic. I mean, we watch comedians, U.S. comedians, like, late-night shows, David Letterman, Jay Leno, making fun of the President through cartoons or whatever you want to name it, I mean, and we don't call that anti-Bush or, you know, we don't make a report out of this.

    But really, I mean, it's so unclear to me what are the -- what's the mechanism for you to decide what is anti-Semitic? I mean, who is anti-Semitic? What do you call -- which kind of action you call anti-Semitic? And is it safe to say that anti-Semitism is anybody who is anti-Judaism or anti-Zionism is anti-Semitic?

    AMBASSADOR KOZAK: You want to answer that?

    AMBASSADOR O'DONNELL: Well, I think demonizing means, like the example I gave, where a Nazi swastika, which you can imagine, for Jewish communities in Europe when -- that has a special meaning, and when that's attributed to the leader of Israel or, you know, or someone like that, that's when I think there's a clear, fine point, and that's the perception, certainly of Jews who live in Europe who -- and those are the ones we're talking about -- who feel threatened. And it does -- you can't underestimate, I think, that feeling of insecurity from things that -- like this that appear in the media in caricatures and political cartoons.

    Now obviously, there are plenty of political cartoons that do not fall in that category, but there are some that contribute to the feeling of fear and concern for their safety, security, when you couple that with verbal harassment or physical assaults, which is also present in some countries in Europe. And that's why I think that type of anti -- that type of caricature or political cartoon or whatever is also a part of what is seen as anti-Semitism.

    QUESTION: And what is, I mean, anti-Judaism or anti-Zionism?

    AMBASSADOR O'DONNELL: Well, I think in our report we tried to clarify that anti-Semitism is anti-Jewish. It's anti-Jewish because of religion or ethnicity or they're different. They look different. They wear -- a young boy who has a kippah or a rabbi, an Orthodox rabbi in the streets of Europe who is assaulted. That's -- and I think that's the way I would answer that one.

    AMBASSADOR KOZAK: Yeah, I mean, I would just follow that because in some of the -- like the OSCE now has special rapporteurs on intolerance, three different types -- anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, and then other forms of intolerance. And the UN actually has condemned these things, too.

    And I guess the rough analogy I would have, it's the difference between saying, you know, something that went around just promoting hatred of all Muslims because -- maybe because of legitimate grievances against some Muslims, that they, you know, ran an airplane into the Twin Towers. You can say, gee, we really hate what those guys did; but if you translate that into we hate everyone who shares their religion, that becomes Islamophobia.

    It's not directed against the actions of or specific actions in a group. It's taking that and broadening it out to say let's hate everybody that shares that religion. And I think that may be the rough analogy here is when -- yeah, it's fine for people to say we don't like Israeli policy on this issue or that. The United States disagrees with Israel on some of its policies. But when you translate that into saying, ergo we should hate all Jews everywhere in the world because the leaders of Israel are Jewish, that's carrying it a bit beyond the –

    QUESTION: But you don't think anti-globalization is anti-Semitism?

    AMBASSADOR KOZAK: No, no. But it's -- but what -- I think what we're saying is that some of the anti-globalization sentiment, people who have legitimate or, in their view, legitimate concerns, are entitled to have their views about globalization, have somehow conflated that with this idea that Jews run the world and globalization is the fault of Jews.

    QUESTION: Yeah, I just wanted to follow up very quickly because, you know, we're getting into a lot of details. The divestment issue, I mean, there is -- on campuses there are a great deal of effort to divest from Israel because of what is considered to be discriminatory policies against the Palestinians. Recently the Presbyterian Church decided to divest with companies that do business with Israel. Would that be considered anti-Semitic, or did you at all tackle this issue?

    AMBASSADOR O'DONNELL: I think that type of issue needs to be discussed between religious communities. You're speaking of the Presbyterian Church --

    QUESTION: Presbyterian Church, yeah.

    AMBASSADOR O'DONNELL: -- and the Jewish community leadership in the United States. And I think that's where that dialogue should take place, between religious communities.

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 2:21pm

  222. http://washingtontimes.com/world/20041014-121528-8981r.htm

    Anti-Semitism office planned at State Department

    By Nicholas Kralev THE WASHINGTON TIMES

    President Bush plans to sign a bill passed by both houses of Congress that would establish a State Department office to monitor anti-Semitism around the world, despite the department´s strong objection, administration officials said yesterday.

    "The bill is expected to arrive at the White House on Thursday and the president intends to sign it," one official said.

    The House and Senate, acting shortly before the Nov. 2 election, passed the Global Anti-Semitism Awareness Act late last week.

    "It´s more of a bureaucratic nuisance than a real problem. We are not going to fight a bill that has gained such political momentum," a State Department official said.

    Establishing an anti-Semitism monitoring office and producing an annual report would duplicate work by other offices in charge of monitoring human rights and religious freedom, officials say.

    "We opposed creation of a separate office for the purpose and opposed the mandating of a separate annual report," State Department spokesman Richard Boucher told reporters.

    "We expressed the view that separate reports on different religions or ethnicities were not warranted, given that we already prepare human rights reports and religious freedom reports on 190 countries," he said.

    The legislation was introduced by Rep. Tom Lantos, California Democrat and the only Holocaust survivor in Congress, in response to the rising tide of anti-Semitism in Europe and the Middle East.

    It requires the State Department to document acts of physical violence against Jews, their property, cemeteries and places of worship abroad, as well as government responses to such acts.

    "We did support a bill that was introduced in the Senate by Senator George Voinovich [Ohio Republican], which only required a one-time report and didn´t establish a new office for this purpose," Mr. Boucher said.

    He noted that the State Department has been "very active against anti-Semitism," and that Secretary of State Colin L. Powell has either personally attended or sent representatives to various conferences on the subject.

    "We´ve put years of efforts into these issues - Holocaust issues, religious freedom issues - and we feel that anti-Semitism is one of the important priorities that we have sustained," Mr. Boucher said. Some Jewish groups have criticized the State Department for opposing Mr. Lantos´ bill.

    The Anti-Defamation League, a 91-year-old private organization that combats racism, including anti-Semitism, supported Mr. Lantos´ bill for providing "an additional tool for the United States to continue its leadership effort to hold governments accountable for past failures and to encourage and note progress."

    Last month, more than 100 prominent Americans sent a letter to Mr. Powell endorsing the measure. "The fight against anti-Semitism deserves specific, focused attention," said the letter signed by Jeane Kirkpatrick, President Reagan´s ambassador to the United Nations, former Republican Rep. Jack Kemp and others.

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 2:22pm

  223. Posted by TRYSM 06/14/2006 @ 2:10pm

    I heard Jason Leopold of TruthOut.org on the Ed Schultz show yesterday. While he seemed prepared to take his medicine should he be proved wrong, he was not ready to accept Luskin's as the final word on the issue.

    http://www.WeGotEd.com

    Posted by drhammer at 06/14/2006 @ 2:26pm

  224. LEN MOSSE writes:

    The comparison shows a fundamental misunderstanding of politics and culture. Glenn---You usually show signs of rational thought---misguided but rational. What happened? Posted by LEN MOSSE 06/14/2006 @ 10:58am

    There is something like a (left-handed) compliment in there that I can surgically extract with some concetration; so, thanks to LEN MOSSE for the effort!

    With some measure of hyperbole earlier, I was making the claim in some broad strokes, that the right in the US has some uncomfortable simularities with the right elsewhere. Where the hyperbole is concerned, I am wagering that I can out-Ann Coulter Ann Coulter. And given these button-downed times and this informal medium, I am happy to indulge in trying, as long as it does not get too carried away or spin away from claims that can be reasonably backed up. In other words, the outrage about the casual and doctrinaire way in which the contra war gets sniffed at and dismissed in some quarters is to this day galling and offensive since human beings suffered greatly for it.

    It is one thing not to like a legit government of another country --- say, Berlusconi's government in Italy that played very close to the line from 2001-06 and that was despised by the EuroLeft. But it's quite another to attack that government and the people it represents, as would havebeen perfectly obvious in the case of a proxy military campaign to oust Berlusconi by attacking Italy's civilian base.

    Final point and I will wrap up for the day: While thr thrust of US domestic politics can get outrageous, the pendulum always swings, and the people's capacity for better governance generally comes through --- provisionally and imperfectly. I am more critical of US behavior abroad where US interventions are far less understood by the people in whose name action is taken. I can furnish loads of testimony from extensive experience abroad on how even close allies are disturbed by rightwing US advernturism abroad; this week, it was Anders Fogh Rasmussen of Denmark weighing in on the legal black hole called Guatanomo (surely of interest to libertarians and human rights advocates). For the sake of brevity I will summarize by saying the US would be infinately better off and much loved in the world (to generalized benefit) if it emphasized exporting John Wayne movies and not John Wayne behavior; rap records with their fiesty lyrics rather than international gangsterism; and slum dunks on the basketball court by the likes of LeBron rather than alleged slam dunk cases for invasions of by-stander nations.

    Cultural seduction trumps force ...

    Posted by GlennC.Lemon at 06/14/2006 @ 2:42pm

  225. Posted by GLENNC.LEMON 06/14/2006 @ 2:17pm | ignore this person

    So NOW...with the "Bush-41 on an SR-71 going to Teheran" story falling apart....it becomes "the Reagan Campaign meeting with Iranians in Paris", huh?

    This is sort of like PLUNGE and his mysterious "field in Virginia" where American Flight 77 was supposed to have "crashed and been quieted up"....soon, as that story falls apart, he'll move to something more "rational" like "It was shot down out at sea and its radar image blocked by 'stealth AWACS'" (look for it).

    The whole "1980 October surprise" is based on the EGOTISTICAL idea of the Left that "Jimmy Carter COULDN'T POSSIBLY have lost 'honestly'...Reagan and the Repubs HAD TO have cheated". In other words, the same ol' "Dems and libs don't REALLY lose elections, we're cheated" excuse they've used now for 35 years.

    Ever heard any ADMIT to have been truly rejected by the American voter?....from McGovern to Carter-80 to Mondale to Dukakis to the 1994 Congressionals?....No....why?....because it would me admitting flaws in themselves or their ideology.

    If a Democrat "really" lost an election, that would mean the ideology (almost religion) would have flaws, and therefore the adherent might have some too and there would be some "ambiguity" to the Universe.

    Similar to the reason the nutters like PLUNGE NEED a "9/11 Conspiracy", it makes them feel "safe" in a way. "Safe" that there's Order to the Universe, even if Evil sometimes runs it.

    Posted by Mask at 06/14/2006 @ 2:57pm

  226. very nice writing and very nice thinking Glenn.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/14/2006 @ 3:06pm

  227. Mask, do you claim that Reagan did not negotiate with Iran during the election campaign?

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/14/2006 @ 3:08pm

  228. PLUNGER is suffering from the same affliction as the right-wing bloggers LEN/MAASCH.

    The affliction is to see coincidence and determine that the unintended result was the intended result.

    Okay. Let's entertain PLUNGERS anti-zionist view of the Mossad dancing the jig as the twin-towers burned.

    Why wouldn't the Israelis, after literally decades of unbridled assaults from Muslims, get a little giddy when big old papa-US get it's ass tanned as the Israelis have since the 1950's? Don't you think they would be excited that, finally, they are not the only civilized country facing down Islamic barbarism?

    Again, I don't hate Muslims and Islam is not barbaric!!! I don't hate Jews! I don't hate Americans, either! But, if Jews rejoice that there is now a new "victim" of Islamic extremism that actually has the "fire power" to do something about it, doesn't mean they conspired to cause it!

    But, to conclude that the Israelis coordinated, orchestrated or participated in a US attack based on being seen rejoicing in it, does NOT mean they conspired to cause it!

    Thus, it is not just the fright-wing that invents stories to scare Americans into futile and dangerous actions. The left wing, a la PLUNGER, has that same skill and "liberalness" with the facts as the (f)right-wing.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/14/2006 @ 3:10pm

  229. MASK, I know you mean well. But, like the right, do not interpret "results" as the intended "desire".

    Specifically, the left may claim voter irregularity. The fact that voter irregularity is several factors greater in Dem areas the Republican areas alone is not an indictment of GOP gerrymandering or vote rigging, nor the "actual" reason a candidate lost.

    However, any party that endorsed responsibility over voodoo-economics; any party that endorses diplomacy over war and torture; any party that doesn't promise still lower taxes regardless of the deficit, is going to losemore often than win. This is because the electorate is misinformed and makes the correct choice less than 50% of the time.

    Thus, the party of responsibility, restraint and balanced budgets loses time and again, are you surprised???

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/14/2006 @ 3:18pm

  230. Posted by JOHANNESROLF 06/14/2006 @ 3:08pm | ignore this person

    Until I see some OBJECTIVE evidence to the contrary....yes, that's what I'm claiming, JOHANN.

    All the "evidence" presented of such a meeting or negotiations, comes from people with a vehemently anti-Reagan, anti-conservative standpoint.

    Did YOU accept the Richard Mellon-Scaife charges about Clinton running drugs out of Alma, ARK and killing people?

    Posted by Mask at 06/14/2006 @ 3:29pm

  231. People have been waiting 3 years to open your "Fitzmas" presents, only to find yet another lump of coal. Fitzy hasn't been able to hang an indictment on anyone for "outing" Joe Wilson's wife. Libby was indicted, but not for the "crime" Fitzy was investigating. Then people spoke with great certainty that Rove would face trial, but now that fizzled (or Fitzled) too. Instead of accepting the possibility that NO CRIME WAS COMMITTED when the President declassified portions of the Presidential Daily Briefing to contridict Joe Wilson's claims, you are either turning the target onto Dick Cheney or placing the blame on your beloved Special Prosecutor.

    No wonder the Democratic Party can't win elections. You have your eye on the ball, but it's the WRONG BALL!

    Posted by TonySnowJob at 06/14/2006 @ 3:30pm

  232. This is because the electorate is misinformed and makes the correct choice less than 50% of the time.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO 06/14/2006 @ 3:18pm | ignore this person

    "The people are stupid/ignorant"....yes, BECAUSE, VERY familiar with THAT "argument" too. More insulting than the conspiracy theories, but still based on the same idea of the "infallibility" of left-wing politics...and the tangential perfection of its adherents.

    Posted by Mask at 06/14/2006 @ 3:31pm

  233. Mask,

    "Mask, do you claim that Reagan did not negotiate with Iran during the election campaign?"

    I thought Reagan DID in fact send a message to Iran before he took office, and it said something like this..

    " You can GiIVE the hostages back to Mr. Carter in December or wait until I come and GET them in January. Your choice."

    I thought the Iranians cjose wisely.

    Posted by john maasch at 06/14/2006 @ 3:57pm

  234. maasch, try to control your john wayne fantasies. if Reagan indeed negotiated with the Iranians, that would be treason.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/14/2006 @ 4:02pm

  235. Mask, the Reagan story has legs. the Clinton thing sank like a stone. I too would like objective citations, anyone out there?

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/14/2006 @ 4:04pm

  236. JR,

    Just a little sarcasm to lighten up things alittle...you , of all people , should recognize..

    Posted by john maasch at 06/14/2006 @ 4:05pm

  237. But, to conclude that the Israelis coordinated, orchestrated or participated in a US attack based on being seen rejoicing in it, does NOT mean they conspired to cause it!

    Thus, it is not just the fright-wing that invents stories to scare Americans into futile and dangerous actions. The left wing, a la PLUNGER, has that same skill and "liberalness" with the facts as the (f)right-wing.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO 06/14/2006 @ 3:10pm

    I don't hate any group either. What's your point?

    Actually, I didn't "invent" this story.

    I simply Googled "Dancing Israelis"

    Try it.

    To be FACTUAL, these weren't just any Israelis, these were known Mossad Agents. Given that FACT, what does their overt celebration combined with the discovery of explosives in their posession and their subsequent failure of 7 Polygraph Tests - followed by State Department Intervention and their quiet deportation imply?

    Anybody?

    Your country was attacked.

    There is no Bin Laden.

    Now what?

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 4:09pm

  238. Maasch, sarcasm was answered with sarcasm.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/14/2006 @ 4:16pm

  239. Reagan promised a shipment of high tech missles and other weapons to Iran in exchange for release of hostages. That is a basic known fact. The only "cover-up" was that those missles eventually went on to shell Israel, requiring extremely expensive Patriot missles, paid for by moi.

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/14/2006 @ 4:21pm

  240. You misunderstand me, MASK.

    It's not that being misinformed equals stupid. I was misinformed of WMD in Iraq. I wasn't "stupid" because I thought there was a threat: I was misinformed.

    Similarly, when voters are promised lower taxes while their government pays for ever increasing world conflict, it's not obvious that the promise is actually, mathematically impossible.

    So, conservatives aren't stupid. They are misinformed by their party leaders. They tell you to cut tax revenue and services to the middle class (to pay for it), and you, the middle class, will be better off for it!

    It's not that a sucker is born everyday, but only a conservative who's afraid of math and evolution could think the numbers "make sense".

    Posted by BECAUSEISAYSO at 06/14/2006 @ 4:30pm

  241. For those of you who actually believe that Bin Laden was involved in the 9/11 attacks, the FBI Most Wanted web site disagrees with you, and so does Wikipedia:

    "The FBI does not yet have 'hard evidence' linking him to the 9/11 attacks and so as of 2006 he has only been indicted on the embassy murders; he is officially still only a suspect in 'other terrorist attacks throughout the world'."

    http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm

    So, how many of you here have criticised me for my conspiracy theories?

    To each of you - go ahead, tell me again about the one where Osama Bin Laden attacked America on 9/11.

    Anybody?

    Anybody?

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 4:44pm

  242. Have you actually LOOKED at the person in the fake Bin Laden video?

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape.html

    Posted by plunger at 06/14/2006 @ 4:46pm

  243. so, what about cheney?

    Posted by loveloki at 06/14/2006 @ 8:17pm

  244. What about him?

    Posted by USAPRIDE at 06/14/2006 @ 8:48pm

  245. this thread, usa, was supposed to be about him wasn't it?

    Posted by loveloki at 06/14/2006 @ 9:16pm

  246. Fine, what about him?

    Posted by USAPRIDE at 06/14/2006 @ 9:29pm

  247. well, personally, i'd like to see him strung up for war crimes. but the reason i was asking was i'd also like to see what the great minds of the nation blogosphere have to say about him in the context of this thread.....

    Posted by loveloki at 06/14/2006 @ 9:50pm

  248. As would I - where are the great minds of this blog?

    Posted by USAPRIDE at 06/14/2006 @ 10:07pm

  249. well until the great minds arrive, I'll play.

    Cheney and Bush were exposed for the dirty trick players they are. there is no way to put that toothpaste back in the tube. this struggle has always been about the middle.

    the "base", no not freebase, are braindead and they will never believe anything bad about their hero. but the middle is beginning to wonder. it's just not the same country anymore as two years ago.

    John Stewart and Colbert are now mainstream, and are beginning to have imitators. Bush is reduced to pathetic show business. Cheney is a non person practically. I think they know the jig is up. they will have to pull out all the stops, they have a lot to lose, as do we all.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/14/2006 @ 10:28pm

  250. yes, johannesrolf the middle does seem to be waking up. finally! and i even know of a few of the braindead base who have changed their tune--not the base that bush spoke of, those filthy rich who do benefit from this misadministration. but the base of idiots from the middle and poor classes who support this secretive sneaky pack of jackals.

    Posted by loveloki at 06/14/2006 @ 11:23pm

  251. yes, Loki, the secrecy is the tip off that they are up to no good. will we get our democracy back in the next election? I fear the worst.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/15/2006 @ 09:23am

John Nichols John Nichols

Breaking news and analysis on political, social, economic and cultural activism that mainstream media commonly ignore.

Archives

  1. November 2009

  2. October 2009

  3. September 2009

  4. August 2009

  5. July 2009

  6. June 2009

blog roll

Advertisement
Advertisement

Blogs

» The Beat

Health Care Bill Advances, as Harry Reid Trumps Sarah Palin | The death panelist-in-chief rallied her followers to "KILL THE BILL." But 60 senators decided to follow the real leader.
John Nichols
5 Comments

» The Notion

Palin as the Church Lady | Going Rogue book tour brings passive-aggressive rightwing Christianity to the fore.
Leslie Savan
128 Comments

» Altercation

Slacker Friday | The "Second Amendment" sale; the raving paranoids of the right.
Eric Alterman

» Editor's Cut

An Alternative to Escalation in Afghanistan | President Obama is expected to make a decision regarding his Afghanistan strategy after Thanksgiving.
Katrina vanden Heuvel
79 Comments

» The Dreyfuss Report

Chongqing: Socialism in One City | China is managing the most important event in the world: the urbanization of half a billion people. Fast.
Robert Dreyfuss
207 Comments

» Act Now!

Toward Copenhagen | A guide to joining the movement against climate change.
Peter Rothberg
65 Comments