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RedditWashington Republicans are horrified, horrified, horrified by the bluntness of Florida Democratic Congressman Alan Grayson.
The tough kid from the Bronx (and Harvard Law School) who represents an until recently Republican Orlando-area district pulled no punches Tuesday, when he declared on the House floor:
"The Republican health care plan is this: Don't get sick, and if you do get sick, die quickly."
After his GOP colleagues recovered from the shock of a Democrat actually calling them out, they demanded an apology.
Grayson returned to the House floor to announce that:
"I would like to apologize, I apologize to the dead and their families that we haven't voted sooner to end this holocaust in America."
So unfamiliar with the notion that a Democrat might actually take the healthcare debate seriously enough to try and win it, the Republicans presumed that Grayson had gone off the deep end. The National Republican Congressional Committee screeched:
"This is an unstable man who has come unhinged. The depths to which Alan Grayson will sink to defend his indefensible comments know no bounds."
NRCC spokesman Ken Spain claimed in an interview with the Capitol Hill newspaper The Hill that: "This is an individual who has established a pathological pattern of unstable behavior."
Grayson hasn't cracked.
The former assistant (on the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals to current U.S. Supreme Court Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Antonin Scalia, and conservative judicial icon Robert Bork) is dealing in facts.
Indeed, the Harvard grad has seized on a study produced by researchers at his old school that details how 44,000 Americans die annually because they lack health insurance. And he is laughing off a Republican attempt to formally condemn his choice of words.
Georgia GOP Congressman Tom Price does not think it is fair for a Democrat to counter months of Republican hyperbole with actual statistics. So the Georgian has drafted a resolution that accuses Grayson of committing "a breach of decorum and (degrading) the integrity and proceedings of the House."
Grayson's response:
"A resolution like that doesn't save one human being's life."
The resolution has yet to be introduced and is unlikely to get far in the overwhelmingly Democratic House. Like the silly Democratic resolution seeking objecting to South Carolina Republican Congressman Joe Wilson's boorish behavior during President Obama's address to the Joint Session of Congress, Price's proposal is a meaningless exercise.
Yet, Grayson's more cautious colleagues in the Democratic caucus (notably caucus chair John Larson of Connecticut) say they'll urge their Jewish colleague to back away from some of his remarks -- especially a Holocaust reference that, while on-point to the view of those who see the denial of healthcare to the sick as an act of brutality, seemed gratuitous and unnecessary to politicians who are ill at ease with such passionate language.
Grayson, whose official biography begins with a telling quotation from the Torah ("Justice, justice, ye shall seek..."), shows no signs of backing down.
The congressman, who beat an entrenched Republican incumbent in 2008 and is confident he'll win again in 2010 (perhaps with some support from libertarian Republicans who appreciate his loose alliance with 2008 GOP presidential candidate Ron Paul on issues of holding Federal Reserve bankers to account) says he is hearing a lot more praise than criticism
"People are calling us from all over the country to congratulate us for telling the truth," says Grayson. "People are happy to see a Democrat with guts."
In fact, Grayson has a lot to teach a Democratic caucus that has not begun to fight for health care reform.
While Republicans have been waging a war against reform, Democrats have been in duck-and-cover mode -- until now.
Grayson may sound a little over-the-top to some Capitol insiders.
Some of his language may unsettle even his allies.
But to Americans who this week witnessed the revolting rejection by Democrats on the Senate Finance Committee of even mild reforms like the proposed "public option," the Florida congressman's words will sound like the sanest message coming not just from his side of the aisle but from all of official Washington.
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John Nichols
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Joe Wilson has NO need to apologize for anything, or the Demoncrats are the biggest national hypocrits ever!
Posted by BigPasture at 09/30/2009 @ 10:49pm
I think he horrified more than the repubs, he made himself and his base stand out exactly where they are.... Far left and out.
No different than Wilson, but as it turns out Wilson was right or Obama didn't know the position of his own bills points.
Interesting at the different treatment Grayson received from the press and his own party. Great double standard.
And million man math on display once again.
Posted by YourJomamma at 09/30/2009 @ 10:55pm
Thank you BigPasture and YourJomamma for providing some important and real examples why we need educational reform.
Hypocrites is with an "e". And Jomamma apparently thinks his comments should cause an existential crisis, a veritable zen koan that if someone can find out what this nonsense means, s/he might reach enlightenment.
We'd all love to hear the Republican plan for reforming health care, so American business can stop paying 50% more on it than their competitors in other countries. Or, did you bozos forget that part? When you've got a solution to that part, let us know. Until then, shut the fuck up.
Posted by srjenkins at 09/30/2009 @ 11:24pm
Despite the rancor on both sides, President is facing his Waterloo. If he fails to include an affordable public option, his Presidency will go down in flames. He will have proven himself to be a front-man for the same criminals and idiots the Republicans represent.
Mr. Obama needs to take charge and use his popularity and power to show the American public that he really does care. Otherwise, he's going to look like just another ten-dollar political bullshitter.
Posted by JoethePhilosopher at 09/30/2009 @ 11:31pm
finally, a Democrat with some Balls with a capital "B"
As for Republicans, they should be horrified.
Horrified that after all of their pandering, disinformation, fear-mongering and acting as the insurance industry's lapdogs, someone on the left has finally called them on their bullshit.
Give em hell, Alan!
Posted by haroldvonanus at 09/30/2009 @ 11:32pm
Posted by srjenkins at 09/30/2009 @ 11:24pm | ignore this person | warn this person
See, if you don't use a spell check there is always a spell-jerk handy!
Posted by BigPasture at 09/30/2009 @ 11:36pm
Any young, aspiring pols out there may want to study this man, Alan Grayson, very carefully. He IS the face of the new Demos.
He better be or they'll be swept away in the coming elections. And not by replacement with something better, simply by default.
Posted by Sorelish at 09/30/2009 @ 11:37pm
There has been an Orwellian type of disinformation being brewed up from the media regarding the public option.
Every chance they get they proclaim it as dead.
They cover the town meetings in a way that portrays the opinions of very few people to be the view of the majority.
News reports also claim that Obama will need to pass something so the public option won't be a deal breaker.
Reps. Anthony Weiner and Alan Grayson are doing what needs to be done, telling the truth.
Posted by koroviev at 09/30/2009 @ 11:41pm
We'd all love to hear the Republican plan for reforming health care,Posted by srjenkins at 09/30/2009 @ 11:24pm | ignore this person | warn this person
We've seen several of their plans and amendments, but funny thing is Pelosi has revoked 200 yr. old rules and closed them out of any and all hearings, and any other input into the process! Why don't you talk to her?
Posted by BigPasture at 09/30/2009 @ 11:43pm
Posted by BigPasture at 09/30/2009 @ 11:43pm
What's wrong with DENIAL ? It's the same term you & your lovely "health" insurers are so fond of applying.
Posted by Sorelish at 09/30/2009 @ 11:53pm
"Jan, 8, 2009-The procedural changes engineered by Pelosi are an "act of pure cynicism," and will make the 111th C. the most closed and one-sided. Pelosi did away with the 100 year old Recommit Motion because the minority GOP was able to slow or alter bills and repealed the 3yr term limit on committee chairmen, so the Dems can accumulate even more power. Other restrictive rule changes and "slammed shut doors" followed!"
No wonder so many leftists are in dire need of that education reform SR JENKINS spoke of! They rant with out reason for lack of knowledge!
Posted by BigPasture at 09/30/2009 @ 11:53pm
Mich. -- One of the nation's most economically battered states stumbled toward a partial government shutdown Thursday as Michigan lawmakers failed to agree on a spending plan in one of the only states without a budget in place.
A deal to fill a nearly $3 billion shortfall with federal recovery dollars and more than $1 billion in cuts fell through, as many lawmakers discovered they couldn't stomach deep cuts to schools and local services such as police and fire protection in the stricken state.
They also failed to finalize a temporary budget and avert Michigan's second shutdown since 2007
Well, there goes another liberal Demoncrat paradise down the toilet along with California and others! Trust them with the economy, healthcare, national defense, foriegn policy, etc. I THINK NOT!!!!
Posted by BigPasture at 09/30/2009 @ 11:59pm
We'd all love to hear the Republican plan for reforming health care, so American business can stop paying 50% more on it than their competitors in other countries. Or, did you bozos forget that part? When you've got a solution to that part, let us know. Until then, shut the fuck up.
Posted by srjenkins at 09/30/2009 @ 11:24pm
SRJ, you are really off base on this one.
Obama himself said that Republicans had offered amendments to the proposed healthcare plans
<This is the plan I'm proposing. Its a plan that incorporates ideas from many of the people in this room tonight Democrats and Republicans.>
Democrats have killed or refused to entertain every Republican amendment in the House
http://tinyurl.com/olwxes
And in the Senate
<Republicans offered 292 of the bill's amendments, including proposals to eliminate the individual insurance requirement, allow purchase of insurance across state lines and eliminate the fees on health care industries.
Republican Olympia Snowe, a moderate who was another of the "Gang of Six" negotiators with Baucus, offered an amendment making the government-run public insurance option an emergency option if coverage remained too expensive.>
http://tinyurl.com/y92xgy3
Republican healthcare bills the House: H.R. 77; H.R. 109; H.R. 198; H.R. 270; H.R. 321; H.R. 464; H.R. 502; H.R. 544; H.R. 917; H.R. 1086; H.R. 1118; H.R. 1441; H.R. 1458; H.R. 1468; H.R. 1658; H.R. 1891; H.R. 2520; H.R. 2607; H.R. 2692; H.R. 2784; H.R. 2785; H.R. 2786; H.R. 2787; H.R. 3141; H.R. 3217; H.R. 3218; H.R. 3356; H.R. 3372; H.R. 3400; H.R. 3438; H.R. 3454; and H.R. 3478.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 12:07am
This guy grayson is a classless jerk. I had stopped giving money to Republicans because they haven't shown themselves to be conservatives. But I will send money to whomever the Republicans run against this guy just to see him out of public office.
On CNN today, he called Republicans knuckdraggers and neandrethals and refused to even consider that he was being insulting.
I hope he has a lifetime to reconsider if we can send him packing like he deserves.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 12:11am
Grayson - Great!!!! At last someone with the cohones to stand firm. And what is he railing about? The shameful health insurance system that leads to the death of thousands of people every year. Using the term Holocaust is a bit over the top, but the message is still true. Any criticism from the Right for his strong language is utterly fatuous, especially in light of the comments of Joe Wilson, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Rep. Trent Franks, AZ Pastor Steven Anderson, Rep. Eric Cantor, Thomas Sowell, Bill Cunningham, Tom Sullivan, Rep. Paul Broun, Ann Coulter Michael Savage - Need I go on?
Posted by Finnegans at 10/01/2009 @ 12:15am
The oft quoted Harvard study is so bogus that I'm amazed that Democrats even have the nerve to quote it.
1. It isn't based upon facts, but an extrapolated ESTIMATE
2. No adjustment is made for death by accident; in fact it isn't even explored
3. 33% of those in the study were either current or former smokers (22.8% current smokers).
4. 45.5% of the study participants were Hispanic and 22.6% were African American which is highly skewed from the national breakdown.
5. Only 21% of the participants (insured or uninsured) were in very good or excellent health
6. No verification was made to see if they had health insurance after the initial interview that was conducted 14 years earlier.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 12:35am
Oh, I forgot to add to my charges against Grayson
"YOU LIE"!
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 12:36am
grayson...have you been slumming in the blog response pits of the nation and read my advise or do great minds think alike?
NO APOLOGIES FOR THE TRUTH NO MATTER HOW UGLY!!!!!
Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2009 @ 12:47am
grayson for prez '16!!!!!
(or '12 if mr. O forgets who elected him...)
Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2009 @ 12:50am
Just how did a photographer get that perfect, centered shot of Joe Wilson, there in a sea of other politicians, if his comment was not planned in advance?
HE LIED!!!!!
I just love all the vitriol! BigPasture's spelling just gets better and better the more excited he gets!
Single payer now!!
Even old Olympia Snow has managed to utter those words. There may be hope for us in the serf class yet!
Posted by ficheye at 10/01/2009 @ 02:34am
It's kind of ironic how the Republicans want an apology when, if you look up all the Congressional responses in chambers by republicans, they don't criticize their own. They're just like the mother of a criminal screaming "My son didn't do anything wrong." The truth of the matter is when the Republicans had the House, Senate, and Executive Office where was their Healthcare reform bill. There wasn't one because they don't care and don't want change. Remember, this is the same group that sold their constituents a Bridge to Nowhere, (luckily the recession kicked in to axe it), they'll get them to believe anything.
Posted by pauly at 10/01/2009 @ 05:33am
Winning an election doesn't give you the right to do anything you want. It doesn't give you the right abolish property rights. It doesn't give you the right to re-institute slavery. It doesn't even give you the right to start a war of your choosing.
Winning an election gives you a louder bullhorn to attempt to influence public opinion.
Case in point. When Pres. Bush presented the American people with the facts (aluminum tubes with the POTENTIAL for uranium enrichment; Unmaned Arial Vehicles with the POTENTIAL of delivering chemical weapons; obstinent refusal to allow the UN to establish biological weapons had been destroyed)...
When presented them with irrefutable facts and then encouraged them to draw the conclusion that Iraq posed a threat, a super majority of Americans favored invading Iraq (70%).
Do 70% want single payer? Hell no.
Do 70% want a public option? Hell no.
In America 80% are satisfied with thier own coverage. They want the government to "do something" about the uninsure.
"Do something" means something not too expensive and something that doesn't negatively impact me.
You guy want to live in an America where the rich don't get better care than the poor. The 80% are perfectly comfortable with the prospect that they will get better care than the poor.
If you want your public option there is only one way to get it: CHANGE PUBLIC OPINION. It is completely irrational to think that legislator are going to piss off the 80% in order to placate the 20% who self-identify as Liberal.
Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 10/01/2009 @ 06:39am
The truth of the matter is when the Republicans had the House, Senate, and Executive Office where was their Healthcare reform bill?...
Posted by pauly at 10/01/2009 @ 05:33am
Oh, maybe you missed it. It was call the Medicare Prescription Drug Program. This didn't solve all problems, but it solved one of the biggest problems. It solved the problem for less money than was projected in the bill (a first) and it is wildly popular with Seniors.
Glad I could be of help.
Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 10/01/2009 @ 06:44am
I love all these "outraged" right-wingers who are "dismayed" at what Grayson said....
which is like a 0.01% solution of what Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, and the rest say EVERY DAY on television and radio. And even weaker than what some of THEM ...ahem...Rio/BigPosture...say HERE every day.
Posted by Mask at 10/01/2009 @ 07:24am
Senator Baucus and the rest of the dems on the senate finance committee should take note of the response from Grayson's actions. It may anger the republicans, but they are not representative of the American people. We, the people, (roughly 65% of us) want a public healthcare option and applaud what Grayson said. Not all of us are blind ignorant stooges.
The bluedog dems, which are nothing short of republicans dressed up as dems to get into office, and the repubs are only representing the insurance industry. They have the money and power, we the people, on the other hand, have the numbers. This is our country, not theirs, we are the ones who fight the damned wars, pay the taxes, build the bridges and roads, care for the sick, and so on. They are the ones who collect the money from all of the services and hard work we provide.
Without us, they have nothing and are nothing.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 10/01/2009 @ 07:42am
How is it that Howard Dean comes out and tells us the reason we aren't getting tort reform is because the trial lawyers give the Democrats too much money, and it's Republicans who are pandering to big money interests?
The single most effective way to give people "choice and competition" is to remove the barriers preventing insurers from doing business out of their states, but Axelrod says we aren't going to do that because...well, just because?
Folks, let's not act like the motivations behind what the Democrats are doing, or not doing, are as pure as the driven snow and not motivated by greed and money as well.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 07:42am
How is it that Howard Dean comes out and tells us the reason we aren't getting tort reform is because the trial lawyers give the Democrats too much money, and it's Republicans who are pandering to big money interests?
The single most effective way to give people "choice and competition" is to remove the barriers preventing insurers from doing business out of their states, but Axelrod says we aren't going to do that because...well, just because?
Folks, let's not act like the motivations behind what the Democrats are doing, or not doing, are as pure as the driven snow and not motivated by greed and money as well.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 07:42am
Posted by BigPasture at 09/30/2009 @ 11:43pm
Amusing. The reason for rules changes were because groups like the NRA liked to tack on unrelated amendments to bills like whether the District of Columbia gets a House vote. It's also rather hypocritical given how open for input the Republican Congress was under Delay.
Also, can you paint the Republican plan for me, in broad strokes? Or is it just amendments to muck up the existing plan?
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 12:07am
I'm asking a simple question. What is the GOP plan for healthcare? As far as I can tell, it's let's cry socialism until this issue gets buried and let our businesses remain uncompetitive and our citizens ill.
If that's not the case, then spell it out. What is the plan? Or is it all just amendments designed to gut any real reform that is on the table?
And frankly, Republicans desperately need to be insulted. The game always works both ways.
Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 10/01/2009 @ 06:44am
" This didn't solve all problems, but it solved one of the biggest problems. It solved the problem for less money than was projected in the bill (a first) and it is wildly popular with Seniors."
This is a lie. Wikipedia:
"One month [after passing], the ten-year cost estimate was boosted to $534 billion, up more than $100 billion over the figure presented by the Bush administration during Congressional debate. The inaccurate figure helped secure support from fiscally conservative Republicans. It was reported that an administration official, Thomas A. Scully, had concealed the higher estimate and threatened to fire Medicare Chief Actuary Richard Foster if he revealed it.[3] By early 2005, the White House Budget had increased the 10-year estimate to $1.2 trillion.[4]
Posted by srjenkins at 10/01/2009 @ 07:46am
I am just happy that the liberal media has given this enough time to be seen by everyone. Santi you shot at me for Joe Wilson. What was different about this arrow being shot at the Republicans? Was there a joint session of Congress with a Presidential speech involved? Was this a decorum issue? You obviously think this is a lie and I agree with earlier posts of yours that there are more than one point of view. This is not like the Joe Wilson shout out on national T.V. during a Presidential address. This was at the end of a day. Did Grayson touch a nerve? Hey DuNcE why does the Democrat freeze out of Republicans surprise you. This was the outcome after the last eight years of flip flopped rule. You act offended,I am offended by your rantings. Do you have a spit rag tied around your neck when you get worked up?
Posted by whatozz at 10/01/2009 @ 07:54am
olks, let's not act like the motivations behind what the Democrats are doing, or not doing, are as pure as the driven snow and not motivated by greed and money as well.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 07:42am
Many of us have pointed out that we have a one party system. I don't have any false pretenses that the dems are pure as the driven snow, but I know for sure that the repubs are the corporate party.
As we've seen, many dems cave into the corporate power grab. Max Baucus is a perfect example. But there are folks out there who are really trying to get healthcare reform. The difference is that we know the republicans are blatantly lying that gandma will be put on death panels, and the the government is taking over and the rest of the b.s. they churn out daily.
The dem party is corrupt, but the alternative to them is worse.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 10/01/2009 @ 08:09am
Posted by BigPasture at 09/30/2009 @ 10:49pm |
Joe Who?
Posted by snowball777 at 10/01/2009 @ 08:12am
Posted by BigPasture at 09/30/2009 @ 11:53pm |
Aw....Newt's medicine doesn't taste so nice?
Tough!
Posted by snowball777 at 10/01/2009 @ 08:18am
"YOU LIE"! Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 12:36am |
You're with stupid.
Posted by snowball777 at 10/01/2009 @ 08:19am
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 12:11am |
"On CNN today, he called Republicans knuckdraggers and neandrethals and refused to even consider that he was being insulting."
You're right! He should offer knuckledragging neandertals an apology.
Posted by snowball777 at 10/01/2009 @ 08:22am
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 07:42am |
"How is it that Howard Dean comes out and tells us the reason we aren't getting tort reform is because the trial lawyers give the Democrats too much money, and it's Republicans who are pandering to big money interests?"
Because Pugs take trial lawyer money too and the money from the insurance industry dwarfs that put up by the lobbies for lawyers.
"The single most effective way to give people "choice and competition" is to remove the barriers preventing insurers from doing business out of their states, but Axelrod says we aren't going to do that because...well, just because?"
Because where you see cost savings, we see a regulatory nightmare and gaming of one state's laws against another's to the detriment of all...McHealthcare will make us McSicker.
"Folks, let's not act like the motivations behind what the Democrats are doing, or not doing, are as pure as the driven snow and not motivated by greed and money as well."
That particular tendency towards whoredom runs through both sides of the aisle...as should the caution against pureness of motivations.
We can jump up and down about tort reform but that won't change the fact that it doesn't curb costs all that well (it's priced in already and becomes profit instead of lowered prices).
It also has a definite downside for people who have genuine reasons to sue and aren't merely being litigious.
Be sure you check that bathwater for a baby or two.
Posted by snowball777 at 10/01/2009 @ 08:38am
What truly unutterable tripe. The Nation is such a sty it is laughable; I read it as one reads the Onion or Dilbert.
Nichols and the clowns who write for this rag are so hypocritical it's absurd.
They squirm and shriek feigned indignation at the shout by Wilson -- although to give the remotest appearance of objectiveness, Nichols calculatedly describes the Democratic resolution objecting to Wilson's outburst as "silly" -- yet can spare no praise for this fool Grayson. The "tough kid from the Bronx", and a shameful reference to the Torah on this putz's web site as if this somehow makes this somehow vets this crap...my ass and all of our asses.
Oh, and isn't the third comment by sr "noam chomsky" jenkins just typical. This automaton is gurgling on about a missing e in the word hypocrite as if that is important at all. zen koan? give me a break. Speaking of shut the fuck up, crawl back under your silly little elitist rock and get back to your circle jerk.
Since you are so focused on spelling and grammar rather than the point, maybe you can reprimand Nichols' for incorrect grammar in the original article: "Like the silly Democratic resolution seeking objecting..." I misspelled some words for you to quibble about somehwre in my post. Look hard, maybe you can discredit the comment if you find it.
Any means is acceptable and no rationalization too extreme to these people. I am sure this is the type who constituted the Troikas in revolutionary Russia that led the summary murders of millions of people. Too extreme? Recall the statement on the House floor that started all this, and that these scum are defending: the Republicans' plan is die quickly.
There is no compromise or accommodation with these lying swine.
Posted by suntzujr at 10/01/2009 @ 09:46am
A new hero is born. Dude, take it to them, slam them at every step....65% can't be wrong.
Posted by moemongo at 10/01/2009 @ 09:59am
Posted by suntzujr at 10/01/2009 @ 09:46am
You're right, sunny....it's TERRIBLE when people engage in ad hominem attacks on their political opposition!
heheh
Posted by Mask at 10/01/2009 @ 10:05am
thank you Mr Grayson. At last someone on our side is speaking back to the republicans. And we love that they are shocked. if they can't take the heat etc.
Posted by priley609 at 10/01/2009 @ 10:13am
Democrats need more Graysons. We give them a landslide in Nov '08 and how do they repay us? Max Baucus and his insurance lobby written sellout "reform" bill. It is a disgrace. Democrats deserve NO support until they really reform health care. Read as - public option is a minimum. Now its time for democrats to deliver. The Baucus committee is an insult to everyone who supported the president and the democrats last year. 3 finance democrats voting republican. It is disgusting. If that's the best democrats can do then its time for liberals to start their own party instead of getting dragged under by these corrupt phonies.
Posted by CAH2k at 10/01/2009 @ 10:14am
Well done!! and about time too. Hats off to Congressman Grayson.
And to all Democratic leaders: Stop pandering & pussyfooting and get cracking. Nothing good or useful was ever driven by fear. We need drastic change and we need it now!
We must stop selling ourselves to insurance companies and the drug industry. We must acknowledge the needs of millions who don't have.
Posted by Annaita at 10/01/2009 @ 10:16am
Posted by suntzujr at 10/01/2009 @ 09:46am | ignore this person | warn this person
Hey nitwit - if The Nation is so offensive to you, why do you read it?
Typical Tea-Bagger knuckledragger.
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 10:16am
As a political strategy, I would target the Senate-Congress reconciliation process that doesn't require 60 senate votes. Slipping the public option in at that stage appears to give the few wayward senators cover in their states, and gives the public and serious reformers the public option it needs.
Posted by Metteyya at 10/01/2009 @ 10:16am
Here is a great story in The Hill about using budget reconciliation to get the Public Option in.
http://tinyurl.com/yau2meh
Posted by Metteyya at 10/01/2009 @ 10:19am
Because where you see cost savings, we see a regulatory nightmare and gaming of one state's laws against another's to the detriment of all...McHealthcare will make us McSicker.
Posted by snowball777 at 10/01/2009 @ 08:38am
And you do not see the nationalization of the health insurance industry as a pending regulatory nightmare? The "bureau of motor vehicle-ization" of the health industry doesn't set off alarm bells?
Allowing all insurance companies to compete against each other, across state lines, is quite simply the only thing that WILL give us "choice and competition".
Injecting an option run by the government that uses tax money to fund itself and can use predatory pricing and running at a loss to "compete" against established companies is NOT giving us "choice and competition". It's using taxpayer funded muscle to herd everyone into the gov plan.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 10:22am
Because where you see cost savings, we see a regulatory nightmare and gaming of one state's laws against another's to the detriment of all...McHealthcare will make us McSicker.
Posted by snowball777 at 10/01/2009 @ 08:38am
And you do not see the nationalization of the health insurance industry as a pending regulatory nightmare? The "bureau of motor vehicle-ization" of the health industry doesn't set off alarm bells?
Allowing all insurance companies to compete against each other, across state lines, is quite simply the only thing that WILL give us "choice and competition".
Injecting an option run by the government that uses tax money to fund itself and can use predatory pricing and running at a loss to "compete" against established companies is NOT giving us "choice and competition". It's using taxpayer funded muscle to herd everyone into the gov plan.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 10:22am
Go Go Grayson call it a holocaust all you want. Anything that will get attention to this clusterf**k that the Dems have been running.
Posted by par4 at 10/01/2009 @ 10:26am
"The single most effective way to give people "choice and competition" is to remove the barriers preventing insurers from doing business out of their states, but Axelrod says we aren't going to do that because...well, just because?"
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 07:42am
Because where you see cost savings, we see a regulatory nightmare and gaming of one state's laws against another's to the detriment of all...McHealthcare will make us McSicker.
Posted by snowball777 at 10/01/2009 @ 08:38am
Absolutely right, snowball. This would replicate all of the problems we've seen with banks and utilities going national, gobbling up everything in their path, engaging in financial chicanery and growing "too big to fail."
Posted by cka2nd at 10/01/2009 @ 10:29am
Well, here's the thing.
I'm guessing the "public option" would not be subject to the "regulatory nightmare" of different states rules being used to game the system.
No, I'm thinking the Baucus plan (or any other Democrat plan) would subject itself to the regulatory whims of individual states.
This is another example of not being competitive because it gives the government plan a huge advantage of immunity from the states that private insurers will still be bound by.
If they can create a Tolstoy-sized bill nobody has really read, I'm sure they could find some way to eliminate barriers to interstate competition AND eliminate the minefield of conflicting state regulations. I could get behind that.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 10:41am
Well, here's the thing.
I'm guessing the "public option" would not be subject to the "regulatory nightmare" of different states rules being used to game the system.
No, I'm thinking the Baucus plan (or any other Democrat plan) would subject itself to the regulatory whims of individual states.
This is another example of not being competitive because it gives the government plan a huge advantage of immunity from the states that private insurers will still be bound by.
If they can create a Tolstoy-sized bill nobody has really read, I'm sure they could find some way to eliminate barriers to interstate competition AND eliminate the minefield of conflicting state regulations. I could get behind that.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 10:41am
Go Go Grayson call it a holocaust all you want. Anything that will get attention to this clusterf**k that the Dems have been running.
Posted by par4 at 10/01/2009 @ 10:26am | ignore this person | warn this person
Even Debbie Wasserman Schultz who has a huge Jewish constituency took pains not to deflect from the issue, calling Grayson's remarks "inartfully" phrased, but did not dwell on minimilization of The Holocaust by Grayson's use of the term "holocaust." And for Anthony Weiner, not an issue.
holocaust:
Main Entry: ho·lo·caust
Pronunciation: \ˈhō-lə-ˌkȯst, ˈhä- also -ˌkäst or ˈhȯ-lə-kȯst\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin holocaustum, from Greek holokauston, from neuter of holokaustos burnt whole, from hol- + kaustos burnt, from kaiein to burn -- more at caustic Date: 13th century
1 : a sacrifice consumed by fire 2 : a thorough destruction involving extensive loss of life especially through fire <a nuclear holocaust> 3 a often capitalized : the mass slaughter of European civilians and especially Jews by the Nazis during World War II --usually used with the b : a mass slaughter of people; especially : genocide
44,000 a year = mass slaughter, and it is genocide of uninsured, underinsured, and/or those f__ked by their insurance company.
Let us keep our eyes on the prize!
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 10:42am
The best part of the Dmeocratic sophistry from the likes of Grayson is that it simply decreases the time, from this day to that, when the current Democratic forces get run out on a rail.
Go Grayson, you tough kid from the Bronx. You staunch protector of the downtrodden with the "big cohones." You show 'em!
From stage left, in sotto voice: "Get this thing done so we can feel better about our crusade for the little people and get back to the cocktail circuit. We all love the little people, we just don't want them in our neighborhood."
Note: I threw in the misspellings and advanced vocabulary for Sr. "Noam" Jenkins and the rest of the choir.
Posted by suntzujr at 10/01/2009 @ 10:44am
njecting an option run by the government that uses tax money to fund itself and can use predatory pricing and running at a loss to "compete" against established companies is NOT giving us "choice and competition". It's using taxpayer funded muscle to herd everyone into the gov plan.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 10:22am
CC, Evidently you don't have to pay for your insurance or partially pay. Most folks have the insurance premiums deducted directly from their paychecks. Now you tell me. What's the difference between that and a tax? And if you don't think the insurance companies don't rig the game and set prices you haven't been living in this country too long.
This is the bottom line. If the government offers an insurance program that competes with or is better than that offered by private insurance companies and you get better care, why the hell are you against it? The only logical reason to rant and rave against a public option is that you are making money off the private insurance companies, because otherwise you are being screwed by them.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 10/01/2009 @ 10:45am
It's a good thing we have a leader now on the healthcare issue. Finally, somebody is stepping up after all these months the President and Congress have ignored the issue. It will be a tough fight, since the Democrat majority in the House is merely very large, instead of overwhelming, and in the Senate there is barely a filibuster-proof majority. The President may be a roadblock, but representative Grayson can prod him into participating, once he gets back from negotiating for the Olympics.
Posted by Mistral at 10/01/2009 @ 10:48am
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 10/01/2009 @ 10:45am | ignore this person | warn this person
A a good reason for the public option is that we can use voting power to exercise a modicum of control over the system. With private health insurance, we are totally helpless: to wit; 428% rise in profits over the Bush years.
The public option has insurance companies shit in the pants afraid.
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 10:51am
It's hilarious watching the Rush-worshiping Repugs get their panties in a bunch when they get called out for their obstructionism. Like all bullies, they love to dish it out, but when someone stands up to them they just can't take it. "Waaaah, he called us neanderthals, the meanie!" LOL
Give 'em hell, Alan! Lord knows they deserve it.
Posted by OldUncleDave at 10/01/2009 @ 11:04am
Posted by suntzujr at 10/01/2009 @ 09:46am
Should we get you a tissue?
Posted by srjenkins at 10/01/2009 @ 11:06am
there are numerous republican "leaders" who have publicly stated that their mission in this healthcare debate is to either "obstruct" or "destroy" any healthcare reforms. and then you have republican pundits, editors, etc, who have said the same thing.
republicans don't want anymore government involvement in the healthcare sector. that's their position.
and since healthcare reforms will require more government involvement, in one form or another, and since republicans OPPOSE that......well.....so when grayson claims that republicans' obstruction is killing americans, well......he's right.
that's just sheer logic.
Posted by darladoon at 10/01/2009 @ 11:12am
Isn't interesting to find that most of those who claim that they care so much for others actually give so little:
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2682730
They demonize and ridicule the very people who actually do give more. Those who actually "do" the things for which these folks seem only able to spare words. But they can dig deep in their "pockets" for those, there's an endless supply it seems.
This reminds me of that famous statement by George Patton in his speech before D-Day:
"Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. You won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
This statement provides some interesting insight into the mentality of the liberal elite. They don't want to change the world by giving themselves, they want to change the world by making some other poor bastard give.
This is how Warren Buffet, George Soros, Nancy Pelosi, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Katrina vanden Heuvel etc. can reconcile actually paying less tax than their "help" while publicly spouting their concerns for the poor. It's how the Kennedy's can fight a wind farm off Hyannis Port at the same time they lecture others about the need for green energy.
Regarding health care, these people don't really care if anyone actually gets helped, they'll be long gone when the phones are ringing endlessly for the newly helped, patting each other on the back at cocktail parties in Manhattan, chortling about how "everyone is covered," as they snottily demand a new drink from the help.
The only thing that really matters is their own emotional healing, and making them "feel" better. The fact that no one will really get better care, and in fact, the vast majority will get worse care, is just OK. It's about them, not others.
Posted by suntzujr at 10/01/2009 @ 11:14am
Conversion table
Below are some items regarding the health care debate, and the Democrat term for them:
Item: REQUIREMENTS/POLICY/RULES/LAWS in the over 1,000 pages of health care legislation that will adversely impact people.
Democrat term: Healthcare lies.
Item: MENTIONING, IDENTIFYING or DISCUSSING the REQUIREMENTS/POLICY/RULES/LAWS in the over 1,000 pages of health care legislation that will adversely impact people.
Democrat term: Scare tactics
Item: REPUBLICAN IDEAS of all sort from SUGGESTIONS to ATTEMPTS at LEGISLATION that would fix some of the problems people have with the current healthcare system while not destroying it and converting our country to socialist medicine.
Democrat term:
(note, the space following the "Democrat term" above is blank, because according to Democrats and other Liberals/Progressives there have been no ideas - even though there have been)
Posted by sjchermak at 10/01/2009 @ 11:21am
Posted by suntzujr at 10/01/2009 @ 11:14am
your handle belies your hatred
Posted by darladoon at 10/01/2009 @ 11:22am
Darla,
Speaking truth doesn't constitute hate.
This is a typical response: telling it like it is is note hate, no more than lying on the House floor that Republicans want people to die quickly is just passionate debate.
So which is hate, it has to be neither or both?
I can accept either.
Posted by suntzujr at 10/01/2009 @ 11:28am
I left that extra "e" in there for Noam.
God I love this place, and love you all too, Darla, OneVote, Noam, all of you.
Posted by suntzujr at 10/01/2009 @ 11:30am
suntzu, tell us how this is the Truth. you said:
"these people don't really care if anyone actually gets helped"
i would like to see evidence to support the claim that the so-called 'liberal elite' doesn't care if others get the help they need, and that they are more interested in another cocktail.
show me actual documentation, or other material evidence, which proves that elite liberals don't care about other people.
Posted by darladoon at 10/01/2009 @ 11:32am
And we love that they are shocked. if they can't take the heat etc.
Posted by priley609 at 10/01/2009 @ 10:13am
No, I dislike liars and Grayson is a pathetic liar.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 11:33am
Posted by suntzujr at 10/01/2009 @ 11:14am
Oh, the elite liberal trope. Here's a clue, the elites aren't liberal, fucknut.
Posted by srjenkins at 10/01/2009 @ 11:33am
I notice that none of these leftists even bother to try and defend the bogus Harvard study that I debunked.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 12:35am
the 44,000 deaths figures that they cite are completely fabricated and then the lying Grayson along with the rest of the Democrats actually quote this garbage as if it's a fact.
The reality is that there is no defense for a fabricated piece of propaganda like the Harvard study.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 11:36am
"the elites aren't liberal"
and that is why the media can't be liberal, too.
Posted by darladoon at 10/01/2009 @ 11:37am
Posted by darladoon at 10/01/2009 @ 11:32am
You're wasting your time. There are people that are worth having a dialog with and there are others that need to be held by the nose and kicked in the ass - using the quote from the Patton movie to help with sunzoojr's poor reading comprehension. sunzoojr drank the Kool-aid and wouldn't know when to cut off the concubine's head. Ignore him or play his game - but don't take him seriously.
Posted by srjenkins at 10/01/2009 @ 11:37am
Posted by suntzujr at 10/01/2009 @ 11:28am
Great handle, but you are wasting time on Darlaloon...
You need to clarify that your handle does not refer to an item in the appetizer section a take out menu .
Posted by YourJomamma at 10/01/2009 @ 11:37am
Everyone who cares about their fellow Americans -- that would exclude about half the people commenting on this site -- should write to Rep. Grayson and tell him that a lot of people agree with him and are happy to see a Democrat with gumption.
http://grayson.house.gov/contact/index.shtml
Thank you.
Posted by Citizen54 at 10/01/2009 @ 11:39am
they want to change the world by making some other poor bastard give.
Posted by suntzujr at 10/01/2009 @ 11:14am
and what did Bush do? Put his wars and Wall Street and Bank bailout on the credit card - let somebody else pay for it down the line - while giving the benefactors of that largesse a tax cut.
Patton also said:
"Always do everything you ask of those you command." - George S. Patton, Jr. (1885-1945) US general
Now - tell us how "Republicans" have sacrificed.
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 11:42am
Posted by YourJomamma at 10/01/2009 @ 11:37am
Which Sun Tzu did you read Jomamma, "Sun Tzu and the Art of Business" or one of the thousands of other bastardized Cliff Notes versions of an incredibly small book? Or did you hear about it from the factory manager during an inspection tour of your collapsing sweat shop jewelry business? Inquiring minds want to know.
Posted by srjenkins at 10/01/2009 @ 11:43am
Posted by srjenkins at 10/01/2009 @ 11:33am
There we go, that brought it out.
This is where the profound, deeply held and logically derived beliefs ultimately devolve:
"fucknut"
You go, gurl.
Posted by suntzujr at 10/01/2009 @ 11:44am
The GOP can dish out lies all the time but can't stand the truth when it hits them in their lying faces. They really are a useless bunch of garbage who have fucked this country far too long.
Posted by antigop at 10/01/2009 @ 11:46am
You need to clarify that your handle does not refer to an item in the appetizer section a take out menu .
Posted by YourJomamma at 10/01/2009 @ 11:37am | ignore this person | warn this person
Didn't know Sun Tzu wrote about "class warfare" - though Repubs undoubtedly consult it often in their war on citizens of this country.
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 11:47am
Posted by suntzujr at 10/01/2009 @ 11:44am
I cater my message to my audience. If you didn't come across as a complete douche bag on the order or BigPasture or John Maasch and had posted something worth responding to, you might rate more than a "fucknut".
Posted by srjenkins at 10/01/2009 @ 11:48am
Posted by srjenkins at 10/01/2009 @ 11:43am | ignore this person | warn this person
At one of his Tony Robbins circle jerk brain wash seminars no doubt.
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 11:49am
no, republicans, and their friends at fox news, don't want americans to die, they'r here to help.
MN rep Emmer on fox this morning:
"There is nothing in the U.S. Constitution that provides the federal government with the authority to establish a health care system"
ok, then.
that's pretty much the right wing's approach to reform.
Posted by darladoon at 10/01/2009 @ 11:52am
Posted by Citizen54 at 10/01/2009 @ 11:39am
Actually, if you want to contact him, you need to use marion@mail.house.gov. The web form requires an address in his district.
Posted by srjenkins at 10/01/2009 @ 11:54am
The GOP can dish out lies all the time but can't stand the truth when it hits them in their lying faces. They really are a useless bunch of garbage who have fucked this country far too long.
Posted by antigop at 10/01/2009 @ 11:46am | ignore this person | warn this person
These f__kers are clueless. No amount of corporate spending is ever going to repair their "damaged" image.
You've got criminals like Tom Delay on Dancing with Stars.
Sick!
You've got mass media covering Sarah Palin every f__king night.
Sick!
We need to take back our country.
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 11:56am
Posted by suntzujr at 10/01/2009 @ 11:30am
Sunt. Aren't you missing a repeat of Rush's daily broadcast? 'Ol Rush can troll with a bare hook for suckers like yourself. Luckily for him, the immense school swarming behind his line will only require releasing the biggest, fattest & most greedy pursuer.
A sure bet he uses barbless hooks. Even swillers like himself have limits on what they ingest. Keep trying.
Posted by Sorelish at 10/01/2009 @ 11:56am
At last, a Democrat who isn't a wimp! You have to hit the opposition hard, and tell the truth. Politics requires a thick skin, and you have be able to think on your feet when attacked.
Posted by pjcasey at 10/01/2009 @ 12:00pm
If the government offers an insurance program that competes with or is better than that offered by private insurance companies and you get better care, why the hell are you against it?
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 10/01/2009 @ 10:45am
I guess looking at the bankruptcy of Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, the U.S. Postal Service, Fannie Mac, Freddie Mae, the entire "War on Poverty", Amtrack, and the bungling, incomprehensible spending of the "Stimulus Bill" (millions of dollars for SIGNS to identify projects to drivers!?)...I'm kind of lukewarm on the whole socialized, entitlement, redistribuitive government program thing.
Yep, maybe I'm considering more than just the touchy-feelie "intentions" of healthcare reform?
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 12:04pm
If the government offers an insurance program that competes with or is better than that offered by private insurance companies and you get better care, why the hell are you against it?
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 10/01/2009 @ 10:45am
I guess looking at the bankruptcy of Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, the U.S. Postal Service, Fannie Mac, Freddie Mae, the entire "War on Poverty", Amtrack, and the bungling, incomprehensible spending of the "Stimulus Bill" (millions of dollars for SIGNS to identify projects to drivers!?)...I'm kind of lukewarm on the whole socialized, entitlement, redistribuitive government program thing.
Yep, maybe I'm considering more than just the touchy-feelie "intentions" of healthcare reform?
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 12:04pm
Nichols is making Grayson the story, which is exactly what the opponents of meaningful reform want. This is the problem with rhetoric divorced from action: so what.
Posted by kparcell at 10/01/2009 @ 12:04pm
Frankly, I think the real crooks are laughing hysterically at us for the way they've reduced us to jealous children at each others' throats. This inane playground pissing match makes it all so much easier to plan their next Middle East war to kill millions of Muslims, while we rant and rave over relatively harmless inane political name-calling. I admit, our healthcare system is a disgrace to us and our economy, but compared to the million innocents we've slaughtered in Iraq and Afghanistan, it's inconsequential, as a moral issue.
Meanwhile, Obama pretends to talk to the Iranians, does his level best to keep us all infighting, Israel draws up another 450 contingency plans for annihilating Iran, the neocons keep the media hysteria machine running at warp 5 (it's working very well, judging by these comments) and the banksters at the Fed keep the printing presses on warp 6, so our money won't be able to buy bread, soon.
These guys will kill us all as soon as we've eliminated Iran for them and will be laughing all the while.
Posted by DejaVu at 10/01/2009 @ 12:07pm
"There is nothing in the U.S. Constitution that provides the federal government with the authority to establish a health care system"
ok, then.
that's pretty much the right wing's approach to reform.
Posted by darladoon at 10/01/2009 @ 11:52am
Hmm, follow the constitution? sounds rational and lawful to me.
Tell me Darla, why haven't the states who already control how health insurance plans can be offered in each state taken any of these steps for reform?
Aren't there a number of "blue" states where Dems could have done so?
Couldn't they have mandated noncancellation of coverage?
Couldn't they have mandated "free" preventative checkups?
Couldn't they have set maximum premium rates? (BTW the states already approve the premium rates).
Couldn't the states establish a requirement for a pool from insurers to offer a guranteed coverage for those who are deemed uninsurable? The answer is yes, because California already does that with auto insurance including coverage for those who cannot afford coverage. And it's paid for by the insurance companies.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 12:12pm
G-d, finally, someone who is willing to speak truth to power, go rep Grayson, there are a lot of us who are just THRILLED with you, finally, finally, someone who speaks the libs language!
Posted by Denise29 at 10/01/2009 @ 12:15pm
G-d, finally, someone who is willing to speak truth to power, go rep Grayson, there are a lot of us who are just THRILLED with you, finally, finally, someone who speaks the libs language!
Posted by Denise29 at 10/01/2009 @ 12:15pm
Are my eyes deceiving me? A Democrat who sees clearly what the issues are and is willing to seize the time? We just don't have to rely on the plain talking of a Bernie Sanders? Now if only Obama would get beyond the audacity of his narcissstic self, stop his junkets to NYC and the talk shows, and start leading the good fight that Grayson seems to be doing, maybe we'll get somewhere. But, oh, I forgot...President Obama has to head off to Copenhagen to put in the fix for Chicago to host the Olympics. Sounds like the move of a typical Chicago ward heeler paying back, not a socially-minded progressive president that somehow so many of us thought we were getting when we voted for him. Fire next time: Grayson for President.
Posted by Masaniello at 10/01/2009 @ 12:18pm
"No, I dislike liars and Grayson is a pathetic liar." Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 11:33am
Really, Larry, you don't like liars? You loved Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle and the rest of the neocons who lied this country into a devastating war. You seem quite fond of Joe Wilson, who lied in his little outburst during the President's address. Larry, is your current handle a way of equating liberalism with socialism? Because if it is, you're either woefully uninformed or a liar. Just like the teabagging liars who wouldn't know the difference between Marxism, Naziism, Liberal Democracy, and Socialism. But you seem OK with that oft-repeated set of lies, and the liars spouting that garbage. Grayson was a hell of a lot closer to the truth than anything that's come out of conservatism in years.
Posted by jmusolino at 10/01/2009 @ 12:22pm
Oops, sorry about double post.
Posted by Denise29 at 10/01/2009 @ 12:22pm
I have waited 8 years to hear what Rep Grayson said , 8 very long years, it was music to my ears, more please.
Posted by Denise29 at 10/01/2009 @ 12:25pm
"No, I dislike liars and Grayson is a pathetic liar."---------Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 11:33am
Hmmmm?
"We know he's reconstituted these [biological and chemical weapons] programs since the Gulf War. We know he's out trying once again to produce nuclear weapons . . . ."----Dick Cheney, "Meet The Press", March 16, 2003
Posted by Mask at 10/01/2009 @ 12:27pm
Grayson you and all the rest of those scum bag democrats--and your damn leader Obama Bin Ladin has pulled the plug on Americans with your crap. The government is raping the country. the government and all merchants regardless what they sell are doing to Americans what was done to my cat--castrating them.
The GD democrats has cut every ones thoats with your stupid ass reforms. Obamas is in the process of selling out this country to the very same animals we have been fighting.
there is nothing good comes from Florida and that damnable state should be ssevered from the rest of the country. I pray for an ass kicking hurricain to rip you butt holes off and sink you.
Posted by balbarith at 10/01/2009 @ 12:30pm
Thank you Mr. Grayson, its about time that somebody on the democrate side spokeup and called these right-wing ; luney tune nuts out for what they really are. They could care less than a dam about the american public and whats best for them ,only thinking about there own greedy asses and nobody else. It is nice to see finally somebody from the left stand up and show some Balls against these lying hate mongers whose only concern is to continue padding there pockets and the insurence companys who bleed us to death money wise until we get sick and really need there help then because of a pre exsixting condition we are turned down.Thank U sir for your service and to the bought and payed for blue-dog democrates , we will not forget u come 2010
Posted by C.tubbs at 10/01/2009 @ 12:33pm
Antisocialist, from what I've read, Texas did do some health care reform.
What they did was tort reform of medical malpractice. Medical lawsuits are now reviewed by a panel of doctors first, to see if it has real grounds or is patently frivilous. They also placed a cap on how much money could be awarded for "emotional pain and suffering".
Texas, which up to that point had been hemorraging doctors each year, promptly had about 7000 of them come into the state.
Yeah, I would like to see more such reforms as the state level.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 12:37pm
Antisocialist, from what I've read, Texas did do some health care reform.
What they did was tort reform of medical malpractice. Medical lawsuits are now reviewed by a panel of doctors first, to see if it has real grounds or is patently frivilous. They also placed a cap on how much money could be awarded for "emotional pain and suffering".
Texas, which up to that point had been hemorraging doctors each year, promptly had about 7000 of them come into the state.
Yeah, I would like to see more such reforms as the state level.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 12:37pm
I have waited 8 years to hear what Rep Grayson said , 8 very long years, it was music to my ears, more please.
Posted by Denise29 at 10/01/2009 @ 12:25pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Sounds like the voice of THE PEOPLE.
This is what "statesmanship" used to sound like.
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 12:39pm
"We know he's reconstituted these [biological and chemical weapons] programs since the Gulf War. We know he's out trying once again to produce nuclear weapons . . . ."----Dick Cheney, "Meet The Press", March 16, 2003
Posted by Mask at 10/01/2009 @ 12:27pm
And your evidence that the US govt including the office of the president and vice president believed otherwise?
Whereas Mr Grayson would be fully aware that the Republicans had offered up hundreds of amendments.
Mr Grayson would be fully aware that no Republican had proffered to tell patients to "just die quickly"
Mr Grayson could have actually done some research (or his staff) to verify that the Harvard Study is just a fabricated propaganda piece.
I stand by my statement that Grayson is a liar, and I challenge all of you Grayson worshippers to defend his lies
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 12:40pm
Texas, which up to that point had been hemorraging doctors each year, promptly had about 7000 of them come into the state.
Yeah, I would like to see more such reforms as the state level.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 12:37pm | ignore this person | warn this person
How many of those who came back had previous malpractice suits successfully prosecuted against them?
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 12:41pm
"I would like to apologize, I apologize to the dead and their families that we haven't voted sooner to end this
hposted by John Nichols on 10/01/2009 @ 08:15amolocaust in America."
I watched Rachel Maddow try to get the congressman to renege on his choice of the choice of word, "holocaust". She repeated the offer three times, finally the congressman had had enough and proceeded to call the anti health care group a bunch of knuckle dragging neanderthals. Rachel is generally sensitive to human needs, but she needs to experience an emergency room Saturday evening. There seems to be a clear disconnect between those that have and the hand to mouth group of us that are on survival budgets. A buddy of mine just died, because he couldn't afford the price of a pass port to be able to go to Canada for his diabetic medication. I watched some brain deficient news anchor point a camera at a syringe in the New Orleans sports arena and insist that it was a drug syringe. It was in fact clearly an insulin syringe and the poor policeman being interviewed was forced to admit that it was for drug use as if that was an acceptable excuse for allowing people to wade in sewage for several days without food or water or sanitary facilities. Other insisted that these poor people could have gotten in their cars or private jets or buses and gone to a plush motel/hotel instead of staying and drowning in sewage. Then we had media blaming people for stealing sewage soaked food from flooded Wal Marts. I think I read this story about the last days of the Roman Empire.
Posted by julien38 at 10/01/2009 @ 12:46pm
OneVote, I can't say it enough, YES!!! Voice of the people indeed.
Posted by Denise29 at 10/01/2009 @ 1:04pm
"It estimated that lack of health insurance causes 44,789 excess deaths annually.
The study, which analyzed data from national surveys carried out by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), assessed death rates after taking education, income and many other factors including smoking, drinking and obesity into account.
The methods used in the Harvard were similar to those employed by the Institute of Medicine in 2002, which in turn were based on a pioneering 1993 study of health insurance and mortality."
Haven't found any debunking on the study yet. Still looking.
Posted by !immutable at 10/01/2009 @ 1:06pm
A few typos destroy the article, as does the childish writing style.
"Like the silly Democratic resolution seeking objecting to South Carolina Republican Congressman Joe Wilson's boorish behavior during President Obama's address to the Joint Session of Congress, Price's proposal is a meaningless exercise. "
Posted by Styve at 10/01/2009 @ 1:18pm
"I stand by my statement that Grayson is a liar, and I challenge all of you Grayson worshippers to defend his lies."
--- antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 12:40pm
ANTISOCIAL has annointed former hardcore drunkard and US Senator Joe McCarthy as a [...drum roll swells...] GREAT AMERICAN. Those were his very words, somewhere in the midst of his other endless droning, disengenious sermons on climate change tomfoolery and The Rature that he is certain is in the piepline (all based on uncontentious facts, of course).
Would The Rev take the time to defend McCarthy's unswerving devotion to Truth? Plenty of space to back those claims up right here, right now, with succulent nuggets of Truth.
Perhaps The Rev also found in McCarthy something else that he admits he searches for in vain. Namely a so-called "conservative intellectual"!!! Pardon me for some moments while I recover from the convulsive laughter fit over this doozie...
. . . . .
OK, back at the keyboard aside from the occasional spurts of belly-laff aftershocks.
ANTISOCIAL may as well pass the time searching for the Conservative Intellectual with similarly stupid quests to look for Unicorns, Santa Claus, Ashley Todd's "black Obama supporting assailant", Goerge W Loser's moral courage, or David "John" Vitter's storehouse of ram-rod straight family values. This is because the first requisite for being an intellectual is to tell the truth. Rightwingers neither comprehend nor value the Truth as they are entirely driven by the disgusting cocktail of sickening lies, assertions, and sheer bullshit that, in deepest cynicism, they believe will bring them power. It is there essence and a leading element of their intrinsic inferiority.
Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 10/01/2009 @ 1:21pm
Posted by julien38 at 10/01/2009 @ 12:46pm
I'm sorry for your friends death, but he didn't need to go to Canada as there are numerous resources for obtaining free diabetes medicines including insulin.
I don't know if he was type 1 or type 2, but type 2 is fully reversible.
here are some links for future reference on obtaining free meds for diabetes
http://tinyurl.com/bbl4w5
http://tinyurl.com/ycc3ma4
http://tinyurl.com/y9oalla
This one is for free insulin, needles, repaglinide tablets, or glucagen hypo kits from Novo Nordisk
http://tinyurl.com/5gpw8u
<Affordable Diabetes: Wal-Mart Tops List
I get loads of questions about where to find discounted meds and other diabetes supplies. Especially over at the DiabeticConnect community, costs are one of the hottest topics. Until now, I've been referring folks to Patient Assistance Programs, neglecting the fact that if you have a little bit of cash on hand, you can get your D-stuff for amazing prices at your local Wal-Mart.
Seriously. I was pretty stunned when I walked by the Wal-Mart Pharmacy booth at the ADA Conference last week and saw the price points:
Glucose Meters starting at $9
Testing Strips starting at .39 cents each
A ReliOn home A1c test kit for $9
ReliOn/Novolin insulin for $23.67 per vial
And get this: a 30-day prescription for just $4, or a 90-day supply for $10, for hundreds of oral drugs, including:
Metformin
Glyburide
Glipizide
Glimepiride
Lovastatin
Lisinopril
Levothyroxine>
http://tinyurl.com/n5gqnl
here is Walmart's actual price list
http://tinyurl.com/6nrls8
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 1:27pm
I THINK NOT!!!!
--- BigPasture at 09/30/2009 @ 11:59pm
From the mouths of babes!
Anyway, back to business: BIGNMABLA, did you know that ACORN is comin' to git ya???!! Adolph Obama and the Mystery Mexican, José Biden, are going to gay marry you to an atheistic aborted femaNazi fetus over a bloodstained copy of MEIN KAMPF. And then the DemonCrats will stick you in the human shredder to make Soylent Green (TM) in order to better feed Iranian kids in their madrassas! Pass the word on, BIGNAMBLA among your colleagues in the compound so you can be frightened together...
Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 10/01/2009 @ 1:28pm
Haven't found any debunking on the study yet. Still looking.
Posted by !immutable at 10/01/2009 @ 1:06pm
I've already done it (although others have also)
<The oft quoted Harvard study is so bogus that I'm amazed that Democrats even have the nerve to quote it.
1. It isn't based upon facts, but an extrapolated ESTIMATE
2. No adjustment is made for death by accident; in fact it isn't even explored
3. 33% of those in the study were either current or former smokers (22.8% current smokers).
4. 45.5% of the study participants were Hispanic and 22.6% were African American which is highly skewed from the national breakdown.
5. Only 21% of the participants (insured or uninsured) were in very good or excellent health
6. No verification was made to see if they had health insurance after the initial interview that was conducted 14 years earlier.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 12:35am>
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 1:30pm
"Whereas Mr Grayson would be fully aware that the Republicans had offered up hundreds of amendments. "
Actually he's not lying. You said it yourself. They has offered up AMENDMENTS, not their own bill. They have yet to offer any healthcare reform bill they have simply attempted to gut the one already moving through. So he wasn't lying. He was very specific in what he said. He said they haven't offered a bill. Which they haven't
"Mr Grayson would be fully aware that no Republican had proffered to tell patients to "just die quickly"
Also not a lie. It's no different than you saying all liberals want America to be dissolved. You are supposing mindset. It's not a lie it's a supposition.
"Mr Grayson could have actually done some research (or his staff) to verify that the Harvard Study is just a fabricated propaganda piece. "
You can't actually prove that the stats of the Harvard study are wrong. So it isn't wrong until it's stats are proven false. You have cited reasons as to it's weakness. You said they didn't balance the races right. But does that make a difference? The question was how many people died because of lack of healthcare each year. Not how many people in each racial group? The sampling doesn't have to be balanced unless you are talking about opinion.
You said it is acknowledged as an estimate. So are many things in science. Most numbers in science are simply estimates. The poll you keep posting about conservatives being the leading number in the US is just an estimate in the end. Now the follow up problem shows shoddy follow up but at the same time it doesn't disprove the assertion.
Continued.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 10/01/2009 @ 1:31pm
You said that 20% of the patients were healthy the rest were not. Maybe the reason they coldn't get insurance was because they weren't healthy which is part of the problem with insruance. On top of that again healthy or not doesn't matter. The question is whether they are capable of getting treatment or not because of a lack of healthcare. Even if the people are unhealthy if they are incapable of getting treatment to their unhealthiness because of a lack of healthcare then they died because of a lack of healthcare play and simple which means it has no bearing on the argument.
I think that addresses all of your concerns with the study and with Grayson's "lie". He never actually uttered a single lie.
How about you explain to me why you were ok with Republican's essentially saying Obama was going to try to kill old people if you are so against liars?
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 10/01/2009 @ 1:35pm
where's this been all summer?
methinks it's far too little too late.
plus, Obama won't come w/in 1 millimeter of this guy now that he's a target of people who are against any gov't invovlement in health care/insurance.
If Obama was speaking like Grayson, I'd be pissing my pants with glee!...means he'd be itching for a fight and saying "fuck incumbency"
Posted by urmygyro at 10/01/2009 @ 1:40pm
GOV. LAMM ASSERTS ELDERLY, IF VERY ILL, HAVE 'DUTY TO DIE'
New York Times -- 29 March 1984
Late City Final Edition, Section A, Page 16, Column 5, 512 words
Elderly people who are terminally ill have a 'duty to die and get out of the way' instead of trying to prolong their lives by artificial means, Gov. Richard D. Lamm of Colorado said Tuesday.
Posted by HonestLiberal at 10/01/2009 @ 1:43pm
Sounds like the voice of THE PEOPLE.
This is what "statesmanship" used to sound like.
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 12:39pm
I was thinking that it probably sounds a lot like the firey speeches at the Munich beer hall putsch, for I seriously doubt our Founders spoke publicly about each other in this fashion.
Maybe they did. Burr and Hamilton shot at each other...but that was in private.
Grayson's rhetoric will energize his support, and anger his opposition. Whether or not this is wise to do right now is another matter.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 1:44pm
Sounds like the voice of THE PEOPLE.
This is what "statesmanship" used to sound like.
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 12:39pm
I was thinking that it probably sounds a lot like the firey speeches at the Munich beer hall putsch, for I seriously doubt our Founders spoke publicly about each other in this fashion.
Maybe they did. Burr and Hamilton shot at each other...but that was in private.
Grayson's rhetoric will energize his support, and anger his opposition. Whether or not this is wise to do right now is another matter.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 1:44pm
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 1:30pm
"Results. Among all participants, 3.1% (95% confidence interval [CI]=2.5%, 3.7%) died. The hazard ratio for mortality among the uninsured compared with the insured, with adjustment for age and gender only, was 1.80 (95% CI=1.44, 2.26). After additional adjustment for race/ethnicity, income, education, self- and physician-rated health status, body mass index, leisure exercise, smoking, and regular alcohol use, the uninsured were more likely to die (hazard ratio=1.40; 95% CI=1.06, 1.84) than those with insurance."
Found nothing on your #2 yet, so this may be accurate.
Your #6 appears accurate but your #1 is misleading. They based their estimates on factual data.
Posted by !immutable at 10/01/2009 @ 1:46pm
"Whereas Mr Grayson would be fully aware that the Republicans had offered up hundreds of amendments. "
Actually he's not lying. You said it yourself. They has offered up AMENDMENTS, not their own bill. They have yet to offer any healthcare reform bill they have simply attempted to gut the one already moving through. So he wasn't lying. He was very specific in what he said. He said they haven't offered a bill. Which they haven't
"Mr Grayson would be fully aware that no Republican had proffered to tell patients to "just die quickly"
Also not a lie. It's no different than you saying all liberals want America to be dissolved. You are supposing mindset. It's not a lie it's a supposition.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 10/01/2009 @ 1:31pm
Let me address the bill vs amendments first.
I should have made that clear as both bills and amendments.
A number of those bills I listed were not amendments but actual bills of legislation like HR 3400
http://tinyurl.com/y8tndf7
Another Republican bill, H.R. 2520, the Patients' Choice Act, by Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan
two other Republican bills, H.R. 3217 and H.R. 3218, the Health Care Choice Act and the Improving Health Care for All Americans Act, by Rep. John Shadegg
All of the following (which include the 4 I noted above) are actual bills submitted for consideration by the Republicans
H.R. 77; H.R. 109; H.R. 198; H.R. 270; H.R. 321; H.R. 464; H.R. 502; H.R. 544; H.R. 917; H.R. 1086; H.R. 1118; H.R. 1441; H.R. 1458; H.R. 1468; H.R. 1658; H.R. 1891; H.R. 2520; H.R. 2607; H.R. 2692; H.R. 2784; H.R. 2785; H.R. 2786; H.R. 2787; H.R. 3141; H.R. 3217; H.R. 3218; H.R. 3356; H.R. 3372; H.R. 3400; H.R. 3438; H.R. 3454; and H.R. 3478.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 1:47pm
'But on other measures, including key targets in national healthcare reform, lawsuit caps haven't been a game-changer.
Healthcare spending has grown faster in Texas than the rest of the country. Patients are paying more for health insurance and medical bills. Doctors do more tests and scans, an indication that so-called defensive medicine hasn't declined here.
There also hasn't been more coverage for the uninsured, a top priority in the Obama push. In Texas, 1 in 4 residents has no health coverage, the highest percentage in the nation and well above the national norm.
It's not surprising that malpractice reform has failed to move the needle on healthcare costs. Caps are in place in 31 states, including Texas, and many academic studies have found that they have limited impact on health economics.
"Medical malpractice is not a major driver of spending trends," concludes a report by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation'
Malpractice reform hasn't bent the cost curve in Texas healthcare, but it's still paying off
Posted Saturday, Sep. 12, 2009
By MITCHELL SCHNURMAN
Star-Telegram
The rest of the story....
More doctors, but no saving on healthcare costs. And do note that Texas ranks No. 1 in Uninsured.
Nice solution.
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 1:55pm
Oh good grief! This wounded pose of victimization immediately adopted by the GOP would be ludicrous, if it weren't so transparently pathetic.
Kudos to Congressman Grayson for his blunt - and truthful - summary of the Republican plan. Those on the Right demanding his head on a platter are only displaying their rank hypocrisy for the umpteenth time. After all, the question still remains: Where IS their plan?
Compared to the hyperbole, vitriol, misinformation and outright sedition that's been spewed by Republican representatives on the floor of the House for the last eight months, Grayson's pointed remarks are a long-overdue sign of Democratic backbone.
Apology?! Not on your life.
Many on the Right and Left are also taking him to task for his use of the word "holocaust" (small "h") to describe the needless deaths of 45,000 fellow Americans each year. When I last checked, the dictionary still defines this word first as "destruction or slaughter on a mass scale." I find it hard to take the Congressman to task on this point - even as a Jew - given the undeniably accurate way in which the word (again, small "h") was used.
We should all pray for the day that our government halls are filled with Graysons. Maybe then, at least SOMETHING would get done in the corridors of power.
Posted by LongTimeLiberal52 at 10/01/2009 @ 1:57pm
I am horrified, horrified, horrified that nothing has been done for all of us who have no health insurance for many decades. All I have to say is thank you, thank you, thank you Alan Grayson for saying what we the public cannot get across to those in charge...no apology needed...
Posted by texasvoter at 10/01/2009 @ 2:00pm
LongTimeLiberal52, WORD!
Posted by Denise29 at 10/01/2009 @ 2:01pm
Your #6 appears accurate but your #1 is misleading. They based their estimates on factual data.
Posted by !immutable at 10/01/2009 @ 1:46pm
Actually #6 and #2 are central to the faultiness of their estimate.
If no followup is done to see if any had health insurance after the initial interview, how can you then place them in the category of uninsured and BLAME lack of insurance for their death?
What if they had it a year later?
What if their death was due to accidental causes?
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 2:02pm
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 12:40pm
So, Larry, as long as Dick Cheney BELIEVED it...
it's not "lying"?
Posted by Mask at 10/01/2009 @ 2:07pm
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 1:47pm
I read through some of them. Don't have the time to go through all of them. I ask that you point out the specific ones that you think are plans to fix the cost of the healthcare industry. I misquoted when I said that he said bills.
"The Republican health care plan is this: Don't get sick, and if you do get sick, die quickly."
Most of the bills proposed will do things here an d there but they don't address the overall problems of the system. Which I believe is his problem. That Republican's are only doing little piecemeal fixes but have not bothered putting forth a plan that will actually lead to full and meaningful reform.
Also to be fair I misstated before also. Grayson never said that the Republican's don't have a plan as far as I can tel is he is stating in plain language what he believes their plan to be. Which I guess would mean he is insulting the bills that have been proposed. So again he didn't lie. He simply told the truth which in his opinion is that Republican's have put forth legislation leads to a mentality of don't get sick and if you do die quickly.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 10/01/2009 @ 2:11pm
I will also prempt the gotcha moment Mask is trying to have and say that I think Grayson believes this with his whole heart to be true. That Republican's plans essentially boil down to that. He never said that that is what Republican's said. He is saying that the is what their plans lead to. Just like you say Dick Cheney believed the things he said to be true and therefore was not lying.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 10/01/2009 @ 2:14pm
Grayson's rhetoric will energize his support, and anger his opposition. Whether or not this is wise to do right now is another matter.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 1:44pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Well - we shall see. Maybe opponents of healthcare are the ones that should be considering such wisdom.
Opponents of healthcare are doing everything they can to stop it. I really do not fear their anger, and opposition is more driven by greed than anything else.
Bi-partisanship and congressional congeniality was an option for opposition, which the opposition rejected.
Time to get tough, and fight fire with fire. I am sure you would like the Dems to Dukakis
As to the stump speeches of yesteryear, I suggest you do a little research.
'In the words of one historian, the election of 1828 boiled down to: do you want to vote for someone whose wife is a whore or do you want to vote for someone who pimped for the czar of Russia?'
Election of 1828
Jackson v. Adams; Jackson won over Adams (incumbent). In the prior election 4 years earlier, Jackson was a candidate against Adams who won the popular vote but failed to gain a majority in the electoral college, and the House of Representatives ended up giving the election to Adams. Bad blood.
Excerpt
The 1828 Presidential Election Had Plenty of Mudslinging By Mike Fox/mfox@bristolnews.com Published: March 1, 2008
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 2:23pm
Get um, OneVote.
Posted by Denise29 at 10/01/2009 @ 2:25pm
Or, how about this one from the venerable Ronny Raygun.
'During the campaign, Dukakis' mental health became an issue when he refused to release his full medical history and there were, according to The New York Times, "persistent suggestions" that he had undergone psychiatric treatment in the past. The issue even caused then-President Ronald Reagan, when asked whether the Democratic Presidential nominee should make his medical records public, to quip with a grin: "Look, I'm not going to pick on an invalid." Twenty minutes later, Reagan stated that he "attempted to make a joke in response to a question" and that "I think I was kidding, but I don't think I should have said what I said." Reagan continued, "I do believe that the medical history of a President is something that people have a right to know, and I speak from personal experience." Dr. Gerald R. Plotkin, Dukakis' physician since 1970, stated that "[Dukakis] has had no psychological symptoms, complaints or treatment."[9]'
Wikipedia
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 2:26pm
Posted by Denise29 at 10/01/2009 @ 2:25pm | ignore this person | warn this person
"Mad as Hell - Not Going to Take it Anymore"
"Mad as Hell - Not Going to Take it Anymore"
"Mad as Hell - Not Going to Take it Anymore"
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 2:28pm
ABOUT TIME!!!! I'm grateful that one of the Democrats showed some intestinal fortitude...
Posted by MrAl at 10/01/2009 @ 2:29pm
Look Larry. I don't care about Grayson one way or another (except that his name's grayson like Dick Grayson from batman) I am simply pointing out the fact that not once did he lie. The reason you are upset was because Grayson is insulting something you support plain and simple. Just like the reason liberals were upset about Joe Wilson was because he was insulting something they supported. This has nothing to do with telling the truth or publicity stunts. This has everything to do with people being outraged because they don't expect something they support to be insulted. That is it. Trying to paint Grayson as a liar or unstable is as childish as Grayson lobbing insults.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 10/01/2009 @ 2:39pm
Funny, the repugs can constantly stage coordinated grandstanding but they cry like little babies when a dem does a bit of grandstanding. Poor, poor little babies!
Posted by BlackFrancis at 10/01/2009 @ 2:40pm
Yea, Grayson has a pair or Thatchers!!!
Posted by Denise29 at 10/01/2009 @ 2:44pm
Alan Grayson is a breath of fresh air !!! He has decribed my thoughts and empathy for not only love ones in my own family that I have lost or am losing or might lose, but also of my friends' families and of coarse the families I do not know. The Republicans obviously do not give a damn about anyone except their own families because their's are covered quite well. So I say to the Democrats, follow the lead of The Honorable Alan Grayson because he has more testicular fortitude than most of all the Democrats put together !!! Thank you, Tony L. Cogburn
Posted by roostertlc at 10/01/2009 @ 2:46pm
Wish everyone of the Dems would take a page out of Graysons playbook, fighting fire with fire, about time!
Posted by Denise29 at 10/01/2009 @ 2:46pm
Also anti, Grayson calling Republican's knuckledragging neanderthals is no different than you calling liberals mealy mouthed.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 10/01/2009 @ 2:55pm
This is what the increasing partisanship in politics has wrought. There was once a time when there was enough respect between politicians that someone yelling out during the Presidents speech would have been unthinkable. Now this country has increasingly fallen into a war between conservatives and liberals because everyone thinks everyone else is trying to destroy the country. If you don't like where things are going then stop promoting it by saying liberals want to destroy America. That is what causes outbursts like these.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 10/01/2009 @ 2:58pm
If Joe Wilson had been a Democrat yelling out during a Bush speech all the Republicans would have been in an uproar even if the Democrat fully believed the President to be lying. Because if it's a Democrat man of the conservatives on this site automatically assume nefariousness whereas if it's a Republican they automatically assume he's telling the truth. This is the politics of today.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 10/01/2009 @ 3:03pm
And it's "Neandertal"....sorry to put too fine a point on accuracy! Look,the "Old Brain"right wing morons can only muster hate and vitriol;sincethe creation of the republic,their bobble heads only indicate NO. Judge for yourself,,they opposed The Pure Food and Drug Act,Child Labor Laws,mine safetylaws,OSHA,SocialSecurity,women's right to vote,Medicare,GI BILL,rearming Europe prior to WWll(called FDR a "war monger"),they don't want the "guvmint" to get between patient and doctor(except to keep a human vegetable alive,named Schiavo). 1% of the population controls as much wealth as the other 95%,,,They think they might win the lottery and join that 1%...they are very appealing to the dullards of the political landscape as "dittoheads".so easily manipulated and convinced they are RIGHT(they are!)
Posted by SAMTHEMAN at 10/01/2009 @ 3:04pm
Opponents of healthcare are doing everything they can to stop it. I really do not fear their anger, and opposition is more driven by greed than anything else.
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 2:23pm
Ascribing this opposition to Obamacare as driven by greed is a mistake. It is part of an overall larger opposition to the encroachment of government into our day to day lives.
You see, it is possible to oppose something for reasons other than "greed" or "racism". Besides, we are being told that this reform will be "budget neutral". That only "rich" people will be taxed for it. If greed were my motivation, why would I be incensed about something I'm told will not cost me anything? Either it is a lie we are all acknowledging (hence I would be justified in protecting that piece of my paycheck from seizure) or I am being motivated by something other than greed.
This was the same force behind the takeover of the House and Senate in 1994. It wasn't greed, it was traditional American opposition to nanny-statism. Anger over bigger and bigger government may be a foreign concept around here, but I assure you it is a principle capable of animating millions of Americans.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 3:14pm
Opponents of healthcare are doing everything they can to stop it. I really do not fear their anger, and opposition is more driven by greed than anything else.
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 2:23pm
Ascribing this opposition to Obamacare as driven by greed is a mistake. It is part of an overall larger opposition to the encroachment of government into our day to day lives.
You see, it is possible to oppose something for reasons other than "greed" or "racism". Besides, we are being told that this reform will be "budget neutral". That only "rich" people will be taxed for it. If greed were my motivation, why would I be incensed about something I'm told will not cost me anything? Either it is a lie we are all acknowledging (hence I would be justified in protecting that piece of my paycheck from seizure) or I am being motivated by something other than greed.
This was the same force behind the takeover of the House and Senate in 1994. It wasn't greed, it was traditional American opposition to nanny-statism. Anger over bigger and bigger government may be a foreign concept around here, but I assure you it is a principle capable of animating millions of Americans.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 3:14pm
Thank you Rep. Grayson for speaking the absolute truth. The republicans kill many times more Americans every year than overseas 'terrorists' could ever hope to kill.
It is far past time someone began calling out republicans as the murderous terrorists they are.
Posted by PatTullyJr at 10/01/2009 @ 3:19pm
ep, maybe I'm considering more than just the touchy-feelie "intentions" of healthcare reform?
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 12:04pm
But CC, the health care industry is bankrupting the people of the United States. If the government can run it cheaper than they can as a non-profit entity, it will be cheaper in the long run, not more expensive. If the bulk of the people are healthy and pay their government premiums (instead of the private ones) that money takes care of the sick and as that group ages, the next generation pretty much pays for them. Social security works and has worked fine.
The only problem with social security is the damn republicans raiding the ss piggy bank. They can't stand seeing federal money not being in their pockets, even if that money is meant for grandma.
By the way. The idiots that keep rambling on about the government getting between the patient and the doctor, here's a true story that happened to me.
My doc ordered an MRI of my lower back due to a pinched nerve issue, but they found a mass that wasn't supposed to be there. The radiologist recommended that I have it checked out so my doctor then sent me to a surgeon who then ordered another MRI focusing in on the mass. That came back inconclusive, so he wanted to run a PT scan. The insurance company said no. They said a CT scan with a biopsy was the route to go. The doctor was pissed off. He told me that the CT scan biopsy test is only 80% accurate while the PT scan is far more reliable.
Who's getting in between the patient and the doctor? It sure as hell wasn't the government. A different doctor ran the CT scan biopsy on me and I have to go back for another test. If it turns out I have lymph cancer and it's spread, I'll be suing my insurance company.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 10/01/2009 @ 3:22pm
Oh, I forgot to add to my charges against Grayson
"YOU LIE"!
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 12:36am
Joe Wilson has NO need to apologize for anything, or the Demoncrats are the biggest national hypocrits ever!
Posted by BigPasture at 09/30/2009 @ 10:49pm | ignore this person | warn this person
But, it is to be noticed that old Joe Wilson is not above steppin' out and pimping himself out all over town. To wit: his coming apearance on bahalf of beleagured neocon Tim Walberg here in Michigan. Wilson, of course, being heretofore unknown in these parts, to be sure.
Maybe he'll bring his Confederate flag with him, just like ol' secesh! How apropos for his delegation.
Posted by schnellerheinz at 10/01/2009 @ 3:23pm
YEEEEEE-HA! Let me go grab my harmonica!
Posted by schnellerheinz at 10/01/2009 @ 3:27pm
Ever notic the "Stars and Bars'" resemblance to the Union Jack?
Was no accident.
Posted by schnellerheinz at 10/01/2009 @ 3:30pm
"notic", "bahalf", "apearance"--good thing there's no spelling schoolmarm on duty, that's for sure.
Posted by schnellerheinz at 10/01/2009 @ 3:32pm
Anger over bigger and bigger government may be a foreign concept around here, but I assure you it is a principle capable of animating millions of Americans.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 3:14pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Which Americans are we talking about?
MIC which has its healthcare paid for by big government? Those Americans?
Or how about all those outraged teabaggers who gladly collect their social security checks and medicare benefits? Those Americans?
Or how about all those Republicans who have a healthcare plan paid by taxpayers? Those Americans?
Your astroturfed Americans are already feeding off Big Government.
So, you want us to bomb Iran. Who but Big Government is going to carry out your foreign policy desires.
I just can't countenance the hypocrisy of our conservatives - or our fakey libertarians.
If you truly believed in less government, you would be calling for us to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan, and you would mind your own business on Iran.
We are the only industrialized nation of consequence that doesn't have healthcare.
Now, we spend ungodly amounts on the military. European nations provide healthcare to their citizens and spend reasonable amounts for defense. We have got what 800 military bases throughout the world? How about we trade military spending for social spending?
One way or another, we pay for healthcare. People are generally happy with Medicare. What is the problem with allowing people to buy into that program? You still have private medical provision. What we are talking about is getting private profit out something that is a GD basis need. The small government bullshit is just ridiculous.
We don't need an "insurance" middleman thank you.
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 3:44pm
Bravo Rep. Grayson.
A few days ago a commenter on a NYTimes column or news story said, I think by way of dismissing critics of health reform, that no one was saying that the current system was causing deaths. Well, of course there's been a lot of discussion about poor outcomes, lower life expectancy, higher infant mortality (mortality means death), etc in the US compared with most other industrialized countries.
Now we have an estimate of about 40,000 excess deaths a year - or about 1/1000 of the number of uninsured.
As for Grayson's use of the word "holocaust" - here's the definition from my Am Heritage dictionary - "1. Great destruction resulting in the extensive loss of life, especially by fire." Under "Usage" the text does go on to say that because of its use to refer to the genocides of WW II many do not like the word to be used to refer to other kinds of disasters and widespread death. But the word has an ancient history - first reference is from the 13th century. OED says the same.
So Grayson is correct, but he should probably drop that word and just talk about the facts - millions uninsured, and even the insured often cannot get the medical care and treatments they need to protect their health and their lives.
Keep it up Rep. Grayson1
Posted by colleenjoyg at 10/01/2009 @ 3:46pm
"But CC, the health care industry is bankrupting the people of the United States."
Understood, and agreed.
"If the government can run it cheaper than they can as a non-profit entity, it will be cheaper in the long run, not more expensive."
Where you and I differ is that I do not believe government can. I've been a government employee for about 18 years now. I have "inside" information, you might say.
"If the bulk of the people are healthy and pay their government premiums (instead of the private ones) that money takes care of the sick and as that group ages, the next generation pretty much pays for them."
Sounds much like the Ponzi scheme we just sent Madoff up the river for.
"Social security works and has worked fine."
You can say that about any car right up until the point it stops working. SS is going bankrupt and WE SAW IT COMING FOR YEARS NOW.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 3:47pm
ANTISOCIAL has annointed former hardcore drunkard and US Senator Joe McCarthy as a [...drum roll swells...] GREAT AMERICAN. . . . . .
Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 10/01/2009 @ 1:21pm | ignore this person | warn this person
And...don't forget the good Senator's flagrant cavorting with none other than sidekick ROY COHN!
Talk about company to keep!
Posted by schnellerheinz at 10/01/2009 @ 3:48pm
Now, we spend ungodly amounts on the military.....
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 3:44pm | ignore this person | warn this person
We've got to, OV.
How else can we sustain the post-colonial dreams of empire of our great "allies"?
Posted by schnellerheinz at 10/01/2009 @ 3:51pm
If it turns out I have lymph cancer and it's spread, I'll be suing my insurance company.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 10/01/2009 @ 3:22pm
Hey, if I may have had a chance at survival and Mr Suit put me on death row because he's too cheap to run the test the doctor ordered, it would be my last mission here on earth to make the insurance company pay for their incompetence and practicing medicine when they aren't my doctor.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 10/01/2009 @ 3:52pm
"The only problem with social security is the damn republicans raiding the ss piggy bank."
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 10/01/2009 @ 3:22pm
Actually the problems with SS can be laid at the feet of Democrats since it's inception.
When started, FDR said SS would be completely voluntary.
That participants would only have to pay 1% of the first $1400 they made a year.
That what people put into SS would be tax deductable.
That money would be put into the "Trust Fund" and not the "General Operating Fund".
That annuity payments would NEVER be taxed as income.
Well...LBJ and the Democrats took SS out of the "Trust Fund" and into the General Accounting Fund so they could spend it on other things.
It was the Democrats who eliminated making SS donations tax deductable.
It was Democrats who started taxing SS payments to your grandmother. Al Gore cast the deciding vote on that one.
It was Carter and the Democrats who starting annuity payments to immigrants who had never before paid into SS.
Do you think any of that stuff had to do with Social Securities problems?
Heck, even I would want to participate in the plan as FDR first proposed it. Democrats have since turned it into something I would immediately withdraw from if given the choice.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 3:55pm
"The only problem with social security is the damn republicans raiding the ss piggy bank."
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 10/01/2009 @ 3:22pm
Actually the problems with SS can be laid at the feet of Democrats since it's inception.
When started, FDR said SS would be completely voluntary.
That participants would only have to pay 1% of the first $1400 they made a year.
That what people put into SS would be tax deductable.
That money would be put into the "Trust Fund" and not the "General Operating Fund".
That annuity payments would NEVER be taxed as income.
Well...LBJ and the Democrats took SS out of the "Trust Fund" and into the General Accounting Fund so they could spend it on other things.
It was the Democrats who eliminated making SS donations tax deductable.
It was Democrats who started taxing SS payments to your grandmother. Al Gore cast the deciding vote on that one.
It was Carter and the Democrats who starting annuity payments to immigrants who had never before paid into SS.
Do you think any of that stuff had to do with Social Securities problems?
Heck, even I would want to participate in the plan as FDR first proposed it. Democrats have since turned it into something I would immediately withdraw from if given the choice.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 3:55pm
Maybe he'll bring his Confederate flag with him, just like ol' secesh! How apropos for his delegation.
Posted by schnellerheinz at 10/01/2009 @ 3:23pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Tax Slaves of Confederacy. Sure, we won't repeal abolition, but we will make ya'll slaves to the corporations that feed ya and feed off ya.
Oh....just to ride my old white stallion and survey my plantation....with all the darkeys working in the field while I sip my mintjulep and pork ole' Bessie in the backwoods on the promise of a bit more bacon ration on her Sunday off. Glory be.
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 3:55pm
How else can we sustain the post-colonial dreams of empire of our great "allies"?
Posted by schnellerheinz at 10/01/2009 @ 3:51pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Can't seem to find that in the Constitution anywhere - but I guess it is there somewhere. Shit....we've been doing it long as I can remember. Must be right. Don't know where I got the funny notion that government was suppose to look out for THE PEOPLE. Must be them socialist/communists planting their propaganda again.
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 4:00pm
If the morons on the Right were correct in their negativism just once,it might be righteous to listen to their discourse,but,they are NEVER even close.They will slobber over Ms Palin's screed,follow drug offender Limbaugh to the ends of the earth,let Ann Coulter spit on them with gratitude,listen with breathless wonder to the ravings of the hypocrites from Newt to Reverend Ted. Enjoy "little men" racist jokes, whine about welfare while ignoring the biggest feeders at the public trough,,corporations,,many of whom PAY NO TAXES! They aren't stupid,necessarily,but largely unread(except what fits their bias)..ignorant would be a more appropriate assessment. Their hatred is palpable,their phony patriotism is just that. Tell me how anyone calling themselves a patriot would want a president to fail? BUT, almost the saddest story of these misfits is they seem to wallow in their own self pity while getting screwed the hardest by their "fearless leaders" who exploit them as easy marks and easy votes!
Posted by SAMTHEMAN at 10/01/2009 @ 4:18pm
Tell me how anyone calling themselves a patriot would want a president to fail?
Posted by SAMTHEMAN at 10/01/2009 @ 4:18pm
You mean in order to be patriotic, you must set aside your own political beliefs and support whatever it is a current president is doing and whoever he appoints?
I suppose that is how you spent the previous 8 years? Am I to suppose that if Jesse Helms were brought back to life and elected President, you'd be on his bandwagon?
It is as was predicted. The slogan "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" expired on February 20th. On the afternoon of that day, dissent became the province of greedy lackeys of corporate America, racists, hicks, and others.
Actually, I never agreed with that slogan. Dissent is not a higher form of patriotism than actually putting your life on the line for your country. Dissent, especially on Main Street USA carries no real risk.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 4:37pm
Tell me how anyone calling themselves a patriot would want a president to fail?
Posted by SAMTHEMAN at 10/01/2009 @ 4:18pm
You mean in order to be patriotic, you must set aside your own political beliefs and support whatever it is a current president is doing and whoever he appoints?
I suppose that is how you spent the previous 8 years? Am I to suppose that if Jesse Helms were brought back to life and elected President, you'd be on his bandwagon?
It is as was predicted. The slogan "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" expired on February 20th. On the afternoon of that day, dissent became the province of greedy lackeys of corporate America, racists, hicks, and others.
Actually, I never agreed with that slogan. Dissent is not a higher form of patriotism than actually putting your life on the line for your country. Dissent, especially on Main Street USA carries no real risk.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 4:37pm
On watching Grayson's appearance on CNN, he was loud, he was arrogant. I would not want him on my side. Never knew Sen. Grayson existed until his assault on the republicans. I am, at present, a Democrat but that might not last very long due to their neglect of stopping Obama on his attack on those in Medicare. I agree with the Republicans that the Dems have gone too far in allowing Obama to dictate the terms on which he uses Medicare money, money that seniors need to survive. The R's want the D's to return billions to Medicare, the D's won't do it. If I don't get a save for Medicare in a vote for any Obama health plan, no Democrat will get my vote. This morning I went to my doctor for a checkup. I asked him what patients will have to give up when Medicare cuts their compensation. Without blinking an eye, he said, ".. doctors will not treat seniors". Is that our promised protection? The nurse was drawing blood for testing. I explained to her that about 6 weeks ago, I went for a blood test for another of my doctors. I had to sign a form that if Medicare refuses to pay for it because it is less than 90 days since my last test, I would be reponsible to pay for it. [ On inquiry, I was told that Medicare is the only insurance that makes this stipulation.]She then called the lab that had taken my earlier test, got the result, & used that instead of sending in a report of a test to Medicare. What if my levels had changed in the 6 week period? Is this the kind of care we receive even before Obama's hatchet men make their cuts? How bad will it be afterwards? And this is Obama's promise that nothing will change in our care? Where is Joe Wilson?
Posted by afed27 at 10/01/2009 @ 4:46pm
Great thread. All us over-the-top bomb-tossin' pantin' n' rantin' posters have a lot to say about this behavior. Anyway, he certainly did get CLEAR CHANNEL on the pugnation!
And for a lot less...
The A.M. radio host will be paid about $400 million to continue serving up his daily dose of conservative patter through 2016. His $50 million a year paycheck represents a raise of about $14.4 million a year over his current contract, which was paying him $285 million over eight years and was set to expire in 2009.
* - - * L * - - * I * - - * M * - - * B * - - * A * - - * U * - - * G * - - * H lovers are mad!!
Posted by winyahn at 10/01/2009 @ 4:46pm
Finally, a plainspoken, honest politician. And in the US of all places. Will wonders never cease.
But can he take the heat, the lies, and the vicious personal attacks that he's sure to face over the long haul?
Good luck, Congressman.
Posted by fwhite at 10/01/2009 @ 4:54pm
FINALLY, FINALLY, a Democrat who's not a complete Pussy! Makes me want to give him some money. Way to go Grayson!
Posted by redderthanred... at 10/01/2009 @ 5:00pm
so rethugs claim he's unstable and unhinged for having the balls to call them out for the assholes that they are and then demand an apology? bwahahaha. fuck the rethuglicans. what a bunch of pussies. all we hear from rethugs is vitriol and hyperbole and lies and name calling and unfounded accusations toward dems and liberals EVERY...SINGLE...DAY!!!! but how DARE a democrat call out the mighty rethugs on the house floor.. the indignity of it all!!! hahaahahahaha (choke, choke) - to all rethugs i offer you not one, but two middle fingers!! you will find no "bleeding-heart" liberal here!!!
i enthusiastically applaud Grayson and anxiously await more dems to find the balls to stand with him against these feeble minded bastards in the Grand Oppressive Party. it's time the rethugs go the way of the whigs, far far far away ... back to your death star, bitches.
and as far as the rethug plan... they have no plan; just more of the status quo. yeah they want tort reform and elimination of state restrictions (neither of which will actually reform the health insurance industry)... and even if the dems do concede (and the dems concede EVERYTHING to the rethugs these days) they still won't vote for the bill (just ask Mitch McConnell) - the bottom line is that the rethugs want everthing exactly their way and have no intention of conceding a damn thing to the dems. so they'd rather just let people die then engage with the dems to actually reform healthcare. then hide behind gimmicky horseshit like "family values" and scream about partisanship on the left. the rethugs are living in some demented parallel universe where up is down and having sex with hookers is okay as long as you call out dems for their improprieties and appear moral (ahem, mr. vitter why are you not in jail?)
Posted by sirhcus at 10/01/2009 @ 5:02pm
It's morally wrong to leave 100 million Americans un or underinsured, 1 illness away from financial ruin. And it's wrong to burden small business with the outrageous insurance costs also -- found a cool site; Balkingpoints ; incredible satellite view of earth
Posted by reg373 at 10/01/2009 @ 5:25pm
so when rethugs tried to cut Medicare spending that was okay, but now that the dems are trying curb wasteful spending on Medicare the rethugs are up in arms. what a shocker!
Posted by sirhcus at 10/01/2009 @ 5:33pm
Dissent, especially on Main Street USA carries no real risk.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 4:37pm
Is Kent State Main Street enough for you?
'The Kent State shootings, also known as the May 4 massacre or Kent-State massacre,[2][3][4] occurred at Kent State University in the city of Kent, Ohio, and involved the shooting of unarmed college students by members of the Ohio National Guard on Monday, May 4, 1970. The guardsmen fired 67 rounds over a period of 13 seconds, killing four students and wounding nine others, one of whom suffered permanent paralysis.[5]
Some of the students who were shot had been protesting against the American invasion of Cambodia, which President Richard Nixon announced in a television address on April 30. However, other students who were shot had merely been walking nearby or observing the protest from a distance.[6][7]'
Wikipedia
Posted by OneVote at 10/01/2009 @ 5:52pm
Republicans (after Alan Grayson's blunt truth telling): waaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!
Posted by jarshadow at 10/01/2009 @ 6:14pm
On a side note, I noticed in the piece "Situation Room" did with Grayson, he started to talk about corporate greed and how corporations are starting to determine what Americans get or don't get before he was cut off by Wolf (I'm a Republican!) Blitzer.
I think this is the true battle being fought here with health care, with the ecological debates, the auto industry debates...practically every major issue currently facing America. What I see happening is that Right wingers and Republicans fall on the side of the mega-corporations, while left wingers and Democrats (with some very notable exceptions like Baucus, etc.) tend to come down against the mega corporations. We are then accused of being "anti-business" by the corporate supporters who have their voices directly linked to the major news media (controlled by mega-corporations themselves). The voice of the left, regardless of what Republicans say, is rarely, if ever heard by the masses.
Grayson hit the nail on the head, and while I personally think he went too far using the Holocaust analogy, I certainly understand WHY he used it. Regardless of whether the Harvard report's numbers are completely accurate, they are reflective of what IS happening out here in the real world, and for Grayson to use that information so boldly, decisively and without regard to the consequences, is a good thing, in my opinion.
As was illustrated beautifully on Maddow's show, Republicans have been using this EXACT same form of hyperbole in the health care debate ("death panels," "gonna kill yer grandma," etc) for months and it's only fair that the Dems use similar tactics.
Personally, I find the Republican's "shock" to be "awesome."
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 10/01/2009 @ 6:16pm
Grayson is what Democrats should have been all about all these long months of summer--fighting back boldly, unconpromisingly--with facts on their side! BRAVO!
Posted by drsam8 at 10/01/2009 @ 6:23pm
When you get sick, do you expect to know or learn how to solve the problem, especially when a solution is not readily apparent?
Why do we learn medicine .. to keep what we learn to ourselves lest someone else may benefit from learning such as well, from our efforts? If we keep such health discoveries to ourselves, is that not an act of violence against all who should know, use and benefit from such discoveries?
With your body as a model, think of that for a moment, with such social behaviors being expressed by the cells, body functions, organs, glands and systems behaving so selfishly. Would the body function as an integrated whole with such selfishness? How about if one cell got into a toxic mood and choreographed other cells to insist upon being in a parasitic selfish preeminent bitch predator cannibalistic vampire upon other cells of the body with just such a toxic and selfish disposition? Would the body NOT be sick?
Nature demonstrates the most successful health system as well as economic and political system in the world or Universe, something which is very well illustrated here: http://PROUT.shows.it/
Posted by MysticalSadhu at 10/01/2009 @ 6:28pm
This was the same force behind the takeover of the House and Senate in 1994. It wasn't greed, it was traditional American opposition to nanny-statism. Anger over bigger and bigger government may be a foreign concept around here, but I assure you it is a principle capable of animating millions of Americans.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 3:14pm
And yet, I cannot think of a SINGLE Republican who argued against Reagan, Bush or Shrub when each of them EXPANDED the size of the national government. And Shrub was the worst.
Where were your arguments, then? Hell, where were your arguments last year? You all just wanted him to go away. All I heard from you small government types was the chirping of crickets. Yet you all come out of the woodwork when a Democrat is in charge.
And while you write that it's not about "greed" or "racism," your side certainly doesn't seem to mind having the greedy and the racists tag along on your side, do you...or do you deny that greed and racism play ANY part of what is driving the anti-Obama mania?
That's what's wrong with the modern day neo-conservative movement. Your small government types deny the nutjobs, but don't mind them riding along because they're the ones that get you the press with their antics. The Christian zealot conservatives don't care about the fiscal conservative side, as long as the money is only spent on their "righteous" causes. The gunslingers in your movement only care about a certain amendment, but don't mind having the racists along too, since most of them are from the south and want to own LOTS of guns, and your neo-nazi racists are ALL crawling out of the floorboards now, ain't they? Like roaches.
Tell you the truth, I much prefer my treehuggers and social misfits to your neo-nazis racists
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 10/01/2009 @ 6:32pm
I'm guessing we have paid lunatic-fringe commenter(s) here, because they're parroting GOP talking points and they're anonymous. But I wonder how many different paid right-wing bloggers are actually posting here, because most of them sound alike.
I like how Rep. Grayson so easily dismissed the GOP shill on The Situation Room. The fact is, no GOP proposal seriously addresses runaway insurer rates & co-pays, let alone how to cover nearly 50 million uninsured Americans. Hence, Grayson is correct. Don't get sick, but if you do, die quickly because fewer hospital days and fewer doctor visits, treatments & tests means less comin from the bottom line of the health insurance industry.
That so much attention from paid bloggers is now being paid to Grayson should be heartening to reform advocates. He's got those soulless vampires over at Aetna & WellPoint, for the first time in this debate, actually scared
Posted by mheister at 10/01/2009 @ 6:55pm
I completely understood his use of holocaust. Because the Republican absolutely refuse to say okay to anything, 44,000 poor people die each year because they can't afford healthcare. To me, this is inexcusable and undefensable. Why does this country hate poor people? The base is growing due to Republican policies of the last 8 years. They created this mess, loss of jobs, losing homes, loss of medical care, families breaking up, banks still making huge profits and CEO's still collecting huge payouts. No empathy, no sympathy, no action! If they continue to block this urgent need for Americans, it will become millions died due to lack of medical. How many is it now? For 60 years we have tried to get this and think how many lives might have been saved. It is subtle but it is there. Senataor Grayson just said what we at home feel about the Republicans. After all, the death panel was out of their mouths, not the democrats and the idea alone is assinine but....they did think it up, didn't they. So who is it in favor of poor Americans just die and save money? You got it. Republicans
Posted by greenriverkate at 10/01/2009 @ 7:03pm
And it's "Neandertal"....sorry to put too fine a point on accuracy!
well, Neanderthal, actually. good post though.
Posted by emile duBois at 10/01/2009 @ 7:10pm
Lest anyone think I'm posting anonymously:
www.michaelheister.com
Sorry I left off the g and the period. Long response, small iPhone screen.
Posted by mheister at 10/01/2009 @ 7:24pm
None of this affects the taxonomic name of the Neandertals. William King proposed the name Homo neanderthalensis in 1864. Since then, opinion has fluctuated as to whether they should be considered Homo sapiens neanderthalensis (a subspecies of Homo sapiens) or a separate species, Homo neanderthalensis. For the first half of the 20th century, they were usually considered a separate species. For the last few decades they have usually been considered a subspecies, but recently Homo neanderthalensis has been gaining in popularity again.
Posted by SAMTHEMAN at 10/01/2009 @ 7:32pm
How does the biggest spender in history qualify as a small government type? How does an administration inherit a balanced budget and a bi-partisan CBO projection of a 5.6 TRILLION dollar surplus and turn it into a 1.2 TRILLION dollar deficit?Small government? Not on your life!
Paul O'Neill.Bush's treasury secretary was canned because he had the temerity to say cutting taxes during a war(phony or not) was madness,Larry Lindsay had the temerity to say the war in Iraq would cost the taxpayers 100BILLION,,he was shown the door,General Shinseki said it would take several hundred thousand troops in Iraq to "secure the peace"....Wolfowitz said 35,000,,Wolfie was promoted,Shinseki got the "86"! Chistie Todd Whitman (Environmental Protection head) was appalled at the "crazies" trampling on the environment,,she was cashiered! Just think of the most respected nation on the planet being sullied by the likes of Cheney and his henchmen,Yoo and Addington making torture a part of the American lexicon. But plowing the sea or talking to a chair would be more productive than talking with these right wing zealots! They wouldn't recognize the truth if it was standing next to them. A pox on ALL their houses!!
Posted by SAMTHEMAN at 10/01/2009 @ 7:47pm
That's what's wrong with the modern day neo-conservative movement. Your small government types deny the nutjobs, but don't mind them riding along because they're the ones that get you the press with their antics. The Christian zealot conservatives don't care about the fiscal conservative side, as long as the money is only spent on their "righteous" causes. The gunslingers in your movement only care about a certain amendment, but don't mind having the racists along too, since most of them are from the south and want to own LOTS of guns, and your neo-nazi racists are ALL crawling out of the floorboards now, ain't they? Like roaches.
Tell you the truth, I much prefer my treehuggers and social misfits to your neo-nazis racists
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 10/01/2009 @ 6:32pm
Stephen, I must apologize. For quite a while I assumed you were just a misguided liberal who meant well.
Now I've come to realize that you are just a bigoted liar, filled with hate for those who hold a different philosophy on the role of the Federal govt.
So please forgive me for thinking that you were a sincere, thinking individual.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 7:53pm
Thank you Grayson!
Posted by alainafl at 10/01/2009 @ 8:00pm
..."Bush or Shrub when each of them EXPANDED the size of the national government. And Shrub was the worst. "
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 10/01/2009 @ 6:32pm
Maybe you missed the elections of 2006 and 2008?
Posted by plainbruce at 10/01/2009 @ 8:16pm
Stephen, I must apologize. For quite a while I assumed you were just a misguided liberal who meant well. Now I've come to realize that you are just a bigoted liar, filled with hate for those who hold a different philosophy on the role of the Federal govt. So please forgive me for thinking that you were a sincere, thinking individual. Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 7:53pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--Larry, you were saying on another thread how you don't appreciate being called a homophobe (i.e., filled with hate for gays) simply because your opinion homosexuality is based on christianity.
well, above, you're saying someone's "filled with hate" because they differ from you.
you're using the same tactics you don't want used on you.
also, you're coming off as a HUGE cry baby. "so please forgive me for..."...classic, arrogant, guilt trip language.
Posted by urmygyro at 10/01/2009 @ 8:19pm
Thomas Hobbes wrote,(paraphrasing)"life without government will be brutish,mean and short",,,,the ideal scenario for the Grover Norquists of the nation and their camp followers Grayson is correct,these mean SOBs don't give a rat's patoot about the average American and the promise of the Preamble of our Constitution that says government should "provide for the general welfare" A government "of the people,for the people and by the people" That means the "average joe" not just the 1% that has more than the other 95%,,,which, I guarantee you, includes most, if not all, the right wing loonies! Think of the "free market" without the FCC,,some greedy crook would build a ten megawatt station and blow the competition off the air,,,or the airline industry without the FAA and ground controllers(government workers)keeping reasonable order in the skies,or no FDA regulating(albeit,poorly)the pharmaceutical companies cranking out useless drugs that do nothing at best or kill you in the worst case..or an army of mercenaries rampaging on behalf of the citizenry,,,,yes,the Federal Government has many faults but it sure beats the hell out of the alternatives!
Posted by SAMTHEMAN at 10/01/2009 @ 8:20pm
Leviticus says homosexuality is an abomination,,but so is eating shrimp in the same Book.
It also says touching a dead pig makes me unclean,so I only eat bacon with a fork and play football with gloves on.
Posted by SAMTHEMAN at 10/01/2009 @ 8:24pm
he also proscribed wearing certain fabrics, no mixing linen and wool.
Posted by emile duBois at 10/01/2009 @ 8:26pm
We'd all love to hear the Republican plan for reforming health care, so American business can stop paying 50% more on it than their competitors in other countries. Or, did you bozos forget that part? When you've got a solution to that part, let us know. Until then, shut the fuck up.
Posted by srjenkins at 09/30/2009 @ 11:24pm
Actually, John Mackey had a fantastic slew of ideas that apparently has worked very well for his business (and just so happens to be eerily similar to a health plan I've been touting for the last three years right here on this website). It was filled with wonderful, successful, conservative concepts that would bring down prices while limiting government involvement and control. Why Republicans didn't jump on it and run with it I will never know. Hopefully they will at some point.
(It was humorous to see his liberal brethren up in arms and trying to organize some silly bocott simply because he had a different perspective on how to solve the problem; nevermind the fact that he implemented the plan successfully with his own business. Humorous but sadly not surprising. And I thought the liberals were supposed to be for choice and tolerance!)
Posted by plainbruce at 10/01/2009 @ 8:34pm
he also proscribed wearing certain fabrics, no mixing linen and wool. Posted by emile duBois at 10/01/2009 @ 8:26pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--right...instead, just mix drugs with 13 year old girls...then you're "cool"
Posted by urmygyro at 10/01/2009 @ 8:37pm
Santi-Your fearless minority leader of the House,John Boehner said last week let's start over on health care. That tells me where the Republican party really is. Grayson gave an opinion on the House floor,where the criticism of the opposition party should take place. You can sense health care reform has moved to the Democrats side. The decibel level is very interesting to watch. The things said by Grayson were "incendiary" versus Republicans. Shouldn't the outrage be focused on the" lost" eight years of the Bush Administration and this issue? It amazes me that the home school and home remedy crowd have not realized there is also a counter to their thought pattern. The hold up the process crowd has also lost the initiative. People are fed up with Big insurance and the lines have long since been drawn. As more stories are told public opinion keeps turning. The party of "me" has put itself in the spot it is in. It was called out and now it is running in an angry circle.
Posted by whatozz at 10/01/2009 @ 8:50pm
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 10/01/2009 @ 6:32pm
Stephen, I must apologize. For quite a while I assumed you were just a misguided liberal who meant well.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 7:53pm | ignore this person | warn this person
You see, Stephen, you're just the latest would-be victim of this bait and switch operation of Larry's.
He will deny the HELL out of being a neocon, attempting to identify with, of all things, libertarianism (except for the super-interventionist, U.N.-obeying, ultra-gigantic, neo-colonial military part); then, calls the cavalry out when anyone takes a shot at neocons.
Go fig.
Posted by schnellerheinz at 10/01/2009 @ 9:00pm
Are any of you liberals paying attention to the leaders of countries which have government controlled medicine. They are stating they are imploding and for America not to follow their system. Have you checked the death rates of countries such as Canada and the United Kingdom. Have you seen the number of individuals who are on wait lists to receive a diagnosis and then on another list to receive treatment. They can be on these list from six months to years. Important drugs and treatments are not being performed or administered because it is too costly to their system. Being in the medical field I have to deal with both private insurance carriers and Medicare/Medicaid/VA. As big a problem I have with private insurance carriers, the government entities are far more incompetent. It took the Medicare contracted agency 83 days to update our change of address when we moved which meant we did not get paid for almost 120 days. If they were our only payor source we would have gone under. I do not know many government agencies who run effectively or efficiently. If you think somehow by having our government control our healthcare that somehow there will be no rationing, they care tremendously about your health and well being, and that it is all free to you makes you either naive or just plain ridiculous. President Obama is getting input from Eziekel Emanuel and former Senator Daschel. Read Daschel's book and google Emanuel. Get a clue of what they believe and President Obama. The Democrats in the Senate Finance Committee say they can not post the healthcare bill online for us to read because it is too difficult and we are all too ignorant to understand. Well if they can not figure out how to post pages on the internet, how in the world can they handle administering healthcare?
Posted by ohheck at 10/01/2009 @ 9:08pm
Posted by ohheck at 10/01/2009 @ 9:08pm | ignore this person | warn this person
the gov't handles the health care for all gov't employees, for all senior citizens, for the military, for Indian reservations and for the very poor. not many complaints from those folks. ask your grandma how she likes her medicare.
Posted by emile duBois at 10/01/2009 @ 9:13pm
ohheck Please supply facts about all this crap you've put out,,you are playing fast and loose,here,I can't find evidence that nations with universal health care are abandoning their plans..Please,don't add BS to the mix! Death rates? The US ranks 50th in life expectancy and mid twenties in infant mortality. Don't Palin us,OK?
Posted by SAMTHEMAN at 10/01/2009 @ 9:14pm
I thought I'd go to my grave before ever seeing a Democrat grow a set. I feel as though I have seen an animal previously thought extinct. Go Alan!
Posted by mark_proulx at 10/01/2009 @ 9:25pm
Posted by ohheck at 10/01/2009 @ 9:08pm | ignore this person | warn this person The Army,Navy,Marine Corps,Air Force,Coast Guard,FBI etc..all government "agencies"
Posted by SAMTHEMAN at 10/01/2009 @ 9:26pm
Well ohheck how do you rationalize the 15-20% increase in premium costs per year. Does that go to your firms bottom line? I drive around the Twin Cities for a living ,there sure is a large quanity of insurance company real estate to look at. All of the parking lots are full also. Go to a hospital today in the Twin Cities. They now have atriums and foyers like hotels. It is an ongoing game that is being played. This game has an inverted funnel going to the "players" at the top. If you think they need the money and support so be it. When the money changer is in control of the game there are problems. That is what we have right now.You support the system in place,it pays your bills. How do you reconcile killing and destruction but not helping to heal and care for all Americans. Are we not all worth it?
Posted by whatozz at 10/01/2009 @ 9:27pm
Posted by ohheck at 10/01/2009 @ 9:08pm | ignore this person | warn this person The Army,Navy,Marine Corps,Air Force,Coast Guard,FBI etc..all government "agencies"
Posted by SAMTHEMAN
What about the FDIC insurance provided by the govt. for the banks.
What would the premiums be for the banks if they were required to buy from private insurance companies?
Posted by koroviev at 10/01/2009 @ 11:16pm
Republicans have one agenda in mind:
Keep people distracted by creating arguments to detour their energy so that the subject at hand doesn't get addressed.
My Proposed Solution:
Ignore them like we can do here in response to idiotic reptilian no-brain disinformation and continue to focus on the issue at hand.
In my mind, the wost thing the press does is to give these idiots any kind of air time. That's exactly what they want us to do. Like not putting the TV camera on people who attempt to get attention at sporting events, they will eventually give up (or get themselves arrested).
Can you believe that these idiots actually seek out obviously "We the People" based web-sites like this just so they can stir up controversy? That in and of itself kind of proves my point doesn't it? Who will they fight with if everyone simply refuses to even pay any attention to them? I have more fun laughing at them. You can't convince people who have no intelligence of anything. They can't think - they can only react.
Growth wastes nothing in resistance. Stop wasting time and energy arguing with people who have no ears. Transfer this energy into growing what we want instead of resisting what we don't.
Posted by LightShifter at 10/01/2009 @ 11:47pm
Get Sick in America and go BROKE!
Thats the fact that REPUBLICANS REFUSE TO FACE.Look at the statistics. If you get cancer,more than 85% end up broke,in debt,even with health insurance. The only ones who are not are Oncologists and Big Pharm Companies. If they actually ever find a cure for cancer or HIV it like Osama Bin Laden being caught will never be released to the public. Why? because then the aforementioned will be out of business.Republicans protect corporate medicine and Big Pharm,because its where their money is. Alan Grayson speaks the truth. It is a modern day Holocaust. Thats No Lie!
Posted by willyscanlon at 10/01/2009 @ 11:54pm
Best thing about the Obamanation and Democrats ramming a socialistic care bill through is that the American people don't support it and the outrage will be enough to insure NO Demoncrat will return to office through 2010 and 2012!
Posted by BigPasture at 10/02/2009 @ 12:11am
Just figured it out folks. IT WAS A TRAP!
It was a huge joke on Republicans intended to make them laughingstocks. Damn near worked, too. Unfortunately, it was triggered prematurely by leftie bloggers innocently intending to defend Grayson by pointing out that <i>Republican officeholders have hurled virtually identical inflammatory accusations at Democrats in recent months!</i>
He is a Harvard Phi Beta Kappa who has hired Matt Stoller - a really net-savvy blogger. They cooked up a beautiful plan.
"die quickly" = (from a Republican) Dems telling old people to "drop dead"
"holocaust?" favorite meme of the anti-abortion crowd. Grayson even remarked regarding Rs indifference to "living, breathing, people."
What finally nailed it down for me was the CNN clip where he called Republicans "nattering nabobs of negativism." <b>That was Spiro Agnew's most famous line ever!</b>
Folks, he was <i>praying</i> that the Rs would try to censure him! He was prepared to show that he has been quoting <i>Republicans</i> throughout.
Unfortunately, well-meaning lefties like us triggered the alarm over at fascist central, the Rs withdrew their resolution, and they are going to try to let it quietly go away. Had that resolution been debated, it would have been a national joke.
I am going to repost this now at the bottom of every Grayson thread I can find. Don't feel obliged to rec every one, lol.
Posted by UnEasyOne at 10/02/2009 @ 02:26am
As I read post after post of the usual wingnut suspects here crying and whining, stomping their wordy feet and generally running around with their hair on fire, I had a certain exquisite pleasure rush through me. It was then that I finally understood the beauty of "Schadenfreude".
One Congressman finally stood up and said what we were all thinking. Finally.. What a breath of fresh air in the otherwise stale and putrid atmosphere of recent political discourse. One person can make a difference, if they have the huevos.
And their is nothing more satisfying than watching a bunch of wingnuts piss their pants. :)
Posted by chaoszen at 10/02/2009 @ 05:39am
Yeah, Grayson
We need 300 more like him in the House and 60 in the Senate. It's about time the Democrats who were voted into office to do some good start doing what they were elected to do.
Unfortunately, most in congress are either too scared of their own shadows to take a stand or are accepting too many bribes from the big corporations.
Did I say bribes, sorry I meant campaign contributions
Posted by rkcdlitt at 10/02/2009 @ 06:26am
I heard him say "holocaust" and I said, Yeah, that's what it is. Let the poor die by not giving us health care. I've been sick three years, no diagnosis, getting sicker every day, wonder if I'm going to be in the 40,000 who die next year.
Oh, but Viagra and Medical Marijuana are available everywhere, so at least I'll die happy.
Posted by KayEbeling at 10/02/2009 @ 06:56am
"This is an unstable man who has come unhinged. The depths to which Alan Grayson will sink to defend his indefensible comments know no bounds."
Holy macaroni! Right wing hypocrisy and stupidity - REVEALED. Too bad the dummies who have believed all the lies thus far will not have the mental capacity to get it. Michelle Bachmann anyone? Virginia Foxx? Joe Wilson? Yeah, the difference is that these pieces of doo are outright lying for the health insurance industry. They are selling out their constituents' democracy and drumming up false hatred against our government (based on ridiculous lies). Their famously ridiculous statements can all be easily dismissed as false. These people are the brown scum in the toilets across America, and they should be called out because the consequences are grave. If they get what they want, indeed it will lead to more deaths of the uninsured and underinsured, because they stand strong with the corporations, not the people.
Grayson did not interrupt a joint session to call anyone a liar. Grayson did not say anything that wasn't true. He admittedly drummed up controversy by his choice of words, and we see that was an effective strategy to call attention to the flaws of the Republicans.
Hooray for Grayson! I love it!
Posted by noxidereus at 10/02/2009 @ 08:08am
Is Kent State Main Street enough for you?
Posted by OneVote.
Do you have anything more recent than nearly 40 years ago? Or are you another lefty trapped in a time warp of the Vietnam protest era? Do we want to go back further and talk about all the dissenters Progressive Woodrow Wilson threw in prison?
These days, the only real risk you take is by being in proximity to "dissent" at a G-20 protest, when leftwing protestors destroy property and commit assault in order to get headlines.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/02/2009 @ 08:15am
Is Kent State Main Street enough for you?
Posted by OneVote.
Do you have anything more recent than nearly 40 years ago? Or are you another lefty trapped in a time warp of the Vietnam protest era? Do we want to go back further and talk about all the dissenters Progressive Woodrow Wilson threw in prison?
These days, the only real risk you take is by being in proximity to "dissent" at a G-20 protest, when leftwing protestors destroy property and commit assault in order to get headlines.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/02/2009 @ 08:15am
also, you're coming off as a HUGE cry baby. "so please forgive me for..."...classic, arrogant, guilt trip language.
Posted by urmygyro at 10/01/2009 @ 8:19pm
google the word sardonic
google Mort Sahl
Posted by antisocialist at 10/02/2009 @ 08:16am
THE HIVE MENTALITY
Has anyone ever noticed that when someone throws a political punch at a wingnut that the entire bag o' nuts feels the blow and responds in lockstep (or maybe goosestep)? Especially when the blow contains the powerfull weapon of TRUTH?
They get all in a lather and start spouting the same dogmatic talking points. It reveals a total lack of critical thinking. They are unable to process any information that runs opposite to the Hive Mind. These poor son's a bitches are completely powerless when exposed to TRUTH.
The weapon to destroy these abased creatures is obvious.
The problem is that we rarely see the courage to expose these miscreants for what they are. Our Democracy and our Free Press are broken. And more and more of our citizens fall victim to this terrible disease.
It reminds me of the movie "Invasion of the Body Snatchers".
Our people and our government have been hijacked. The question is, what are those of us who are not infected going to do about it?
Posted by chaoszen at 10/02/2009 @ 08:22am
Posted by plainbruce at 10/01/2009 @ 8:34pm
There are one main problem with John Mackey's ideas. It's not the ideas of the GOP. Further, while some of his ideas are good, there's a lot that's bad.
1. "Repeal all state laws which prevent insurance companies from competing across state lines."
This will create a classic race to the bottom.
2. "Repeal government mandates regarding what insurance companies must cover."
Lawyers for insurance companies will make sure that their customers get screwed, and by the time their customers know, it will be too late.
3. "Enact tort reform to end the ruinous lawsuits that force doctors to pay insurance costs of hundreds of thousands of dollars per year."
Fine. Then how are doctors held accountable for malpractice? There are many doctors, right this moment, that are making judgments on patient care not based on what is best for their patients, but what is best for their wallet. You can't just talk tort reform.
Posted by srjenkins at 10/02/2009 @ 08:33am
They get all in a lather and start spouting the same dogmatic talking points. It reveals a total lack of critical thinking. They are unable to process any information that runs opposite to the Hive Mind. These poor son's a bitches are completely powerless when exposed to TRUTH.
The weapon to destroy these abased creatures is obvious.
The problem is that we rarely see the courage to expose these miscreants for what they are. Our Democracy and our Free Press are broken. And more and more of our citizens fall victim to this terrible disease.
It reminds me of the movie "Invasion of the Body Snatchers".
Our people and our government have been hijacked. The question is, what are those of us who are not infected going to do about it?
Posted by chaoszen at 10/02/2009 @ 08:22am
you'll let us know when you libs start putting forth truth?
How about the truth of constitutional govt? Are liberals ready to follow the constitution?
How about truth in facts instead of propaganda lies? Are liberals ready to embrace fact instead of spin and propaganda?
let me know if liberals are ready for that
Posted by antisocialist at 10/02/2009 @ 08:54am
Grayson said in neat concise words, what is happening in this country. We are returning to 'robber baron' economics; That is a two class system. The ones in the upper class love it. The ones in the lower class hate it.
Time for the progressives to step in. Funny how history repeats it self. Some humans just know , and can not keep their mouths shut, when something threatens the species existence.
Bravo Rep. Grayson for speaking in real terms we can all understand. 44,000 Americans dies annually because they do NOT have health insurance.
Posted by prairiepress at 10/02/2009 @ 09:13am
Fine. Then how are doctors held accountable for malpractice? There are many doctors, right this moment, that are making judgments on patient care not based on what is best for their patients, but what is best for their wallet. You can't just talk tort reform.
Posted by srjenkins at 10/02/2009 @ 08:33am | ignore this person | warn this person
--I think this is a weakness of my own argument for universal health care. How would it being enacted change doctor decisions?
Posted by urmygyro at 10/02/2009 @ 09:38am
also, you're coming off as a HUGE cry baby. "so please forgive me for..."...classic, arrogant, guilt trip language.
Posted by urmygyro at 10/01/2009 @ 8:19pm
google the word sardonic
google Mort Sahl
Posted by antisocialist at 10/02/2009 @ 08:16am | ignore this person | warn this person
--Larry, I like you pal, but sardonic wit is the last thing anyone would ascribe to you.
Posted by urmygyro at 10/02/2009 @ 09:39am
These days, the only real risk you take is by being in proximity to "dissent" at a G-20 protest, when leftwing protestors destroy property and commit assault in order to get headlines.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/02/2009 @ 08:15am | ignore this person | warn this person
Oh...so your statement is just a fixed point in time...I see.
"On October 1, 2009,.....
"Dissent, especially on Main Street USA carries no real risk."
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 4:37pm
Sweeping generalizations are dangerous CC.
"These days" --
Remember the war protests outside of Congress several years ago? The NEOCON Repubs were ready to open fire on the protesters (labeled anarachists and other nasties). They wanted police to use force.
You don't think we will have some violent confrontation if things don't improve? Take a look at all the money the government is spending on riot control, and do check out Raytheon's new crowd control micro-wave emitter vehicle that can disperse a crowd "invisibly."
Read your history books.
And, Patriots are Dissenters. Fighting evil abroad is the same as fighting evil at home. Just got know who the bad guy is.
Posted by OneVote at 10/02/2009 @ 09:44am
44,000 Americans dies annually because they do NOT have health insurance.
Posted by prairiepress at 10/02/2009 @ 09:13am
A complete fabrication.
However, this one is a fact and no liberals seem to mind it.
106,000 Americans die every year from the normal side effects of taking prescription medicines
<Lazarou J; Pomeranz BH; Corey PN. Incidence of adverse drug reactions in hospitalized patients: a meta-analysis of prospective studies. JAMA, 1998 Apr 15, 279(15): 1200 5.>
There are currently 25,000 prescription and 200,000 otc drugs on the market.
3.05 billion prescriptions are written each year.
The average family has 29 different drugs in their medicine cabinet.
Americans consume 68% of all of the drugs in the world at the rate of twenty five million pills each hour, twenty four hours a day.
http://www.accentonhealth.org/pdfs/side_effects.pdf
<An article in Newsweek put this into perspective. Adverse drug reactions, from "properly" prescribed drugs, are the fourth leading cause of death in the United States. According to this article, only heart disease, cancer, and stroke kill more Americans than drugs prescribed by medical doctors. Reactions to prescription drugs kill more than twice as many Americans as HIV/AIDS or suicide. Fewer die from accidents or diabetes than adverse drug reactions. It is important to point out the limitations of this study. It did not include outpatients, cases of malpractice, or instances where the drugs were not taken as directed.
According to another AMA publication, drug related "problems" kill as many as 198,815 people, put 8.8 million in hospitals, and account for up to 28% of hospital admissions.>
http://tinyurl.com/57vfxs
And people wonder why I'm against prescription drugs
Posted by antisocialist at 10/02/2009 @ 09:48am
--Larry, I like you pal, but sardonic wit is the last thing anyone would ascribe to you.
Posted by urmygyro at 10/02/2009 @ 09:39am
Ah, but we all have our weaknesses, and that's one of mine. Not often practiced, but I do love the art form.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/02/2009 @ 09:49am
What finally nailed it down for me was the CNN clip where he called Republicans "nattering nabobs of negativism." <b>That was Spiro Agnew's most famous line ever!</b>
written by the recently deceased William Safire.
Posted by emile duBois at 10/02/2009 @ 10:07am
Larry, I like you pal, but sardonic wit is the last thing anyone would ascribe to you.
Posted by urmygyro at 10/02/2009 @ 09:39am
Ah, but we all have our weaknesses, and that's one of mine. Not often practiced, but I do love the art form.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/02/2009 @ 09:49am | ignore this person | warn this person
--you think you're witty in a sardonic fashion? or are you saying you enjoy people who have sardonic wit?
Posted by urmygyro at 10/02/2009 @ 10:09am
You can say that about any car right up until the point it stops working. SS is going bankrupt and WE SAW IT COMING FOR YEARS NOW.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/01/2009 @ 3:47pm
CC, social security is running out of money because of two main factors. One is that people are living longer and some are retiring earlier. The other is that social security has been robbed blind by the republicans.
Don't you remember Al Gore's "locked box" slogan during his run for president. He was referring to the social security coffers. Bush had a hard on to use that money for his tax cuts, and what was left over, he wanted to divy up to his buddies in the private sector to invest in the markets for profit similar to a 401k managed account. We all saw what happened to everyone's 401k and pensions plans thanks to W's policies.
To fix the social security problem, perhaps some of our tax dollars being thrown at Iraq, Afghanistan and the DOD should be funneled into social security for those who have paid into it their entire lives and deserve their social security benefits.
I have no problem with making social security optional just like the health care coverage should be. If you don't want to pay into it, fine, you don't get to collect any benefits when you retire either. Same thing with the public insuarnce option. Perhaps they could include that in the the health insurance bill. As a matter of fact, somebody who's worth millions shouldn't be collecting social security checks anyway. They don't need it.
No one is holding a gun to your head making you purchase the public option on the public insurance option. By all means, continue to pay for the more expensive less effective private option if you are so inclined. P.S. Did you work for the DOD?
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 10/02/2009 @ 10:35am
They are selling out their constituents' democracy and drumming up false hatred against our government (based on ridiculous lies)....Posted by noxidereus at 10/02/2009 @ 08:08am
The funny thing about it is that half of these ranting rethugs ranting so much against the government are government employees themselves, using government insurance, along with their government pay, retirement, and their government military forcing their views onto other countries. For people who hate big government so much, they sure as cash in on it and use it to the nth degree for themselves.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 10/02/2009 @ 10:42am
"Tell you the truth, I much prefer my treehuggers and social misfits to your neo-nazis racists." Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 10/01/2009 @ 6:32pm
"Stephen, I must apologize. For quite a while I assumed you were just a misguided liberal who meant well. Now I've come to realize that you are just a bigoted liar, filled with hate for those who hold a different philosophy on the role of the Federal govt." Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 7:53pm
Really, Larry? Interesting, coming from you with your history here. Now, care to actually refute anything Stephen said in the post you referenced? With facts? How did he lie, and how is he bigoted? Because he, like many of the rest of us, have had it with the constant putrescence emanating from the right? Because, Larry, he was spot on correct in his assessment of your movement. You welcome the crazies and the bigots, the neo-confederates, the racists, the neo-nazis, the theocrats, the greedy, the sanctimonious hypocrites, the basest of humanity. They're your shock troops. You encourage the bombing of clinics, the assassination of physicians, the murder of federal employees, and worse. Then, when it happens, you try with all your might to scrub the blood from your hands, whining that it's not your fault that the unhinged actually take you at your word.
And you, of all people, to accuse anyone of hatred, given your deep personal animus toward anyone who inhabits a position remotely to the left of your extreme right wing, toward anyone who so much as challenged the deranged destructive policies of the GOP over these last 30 years, towards your gay brothers and sisters, toward the Asians whom you have wanted vaporized in a nuclear holocaust.
Stephen was absolutely on the money in his assessment.
Posted by jmusolino at 10/02/2009 @ 10:49am
antisocial's Jesus has blood on his hands.
Posted by emile duBois at 10/02/2009 @ 11:25am
Posted by antisocialist at 10/01/2009 @ 7:53pm
Please explain to me how ANY of my posts have shown bigotry, or lying, or the other things you accuse me of. I was simply stating that the conservative party in this country, known as the Republicans, doesn't seem to mind having the nutjobs and the bigots and the white supremacists on your side because they are the ones that get you all the press coverage (in the corporately-owned media), even when your side lies about how many people actually attended the march in Washington last month (some conservatives [Beck, Hannity, etc.] said about 1 million; the DC police said about 50,000...I believe the police).
Conservatives overwhelmingly support large mega-corporations over the average American, or have you not been paying attention to the heath care debate, where Republicans favor the status quo which has been proven to be EXACTLY what the mega insurance corporations want. Conservatives support spying on Americans by mega-communications corporations; conservatives support large government (if a conservative is President...e.g. W.), while giving lip services to small government, small business and the little guy.
None of that is opinion; it is all based on the observable policies and practices of the Republican party. So, how am I again a liar and bigot filled with hatred?
Please, enlighten me.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 10/02/2009 @ 12:10pm
Stephen was absolutely on the money in his assessment.
Posted by jmusolino at 10/02/2009 @ 10:49am
Wow. Thanks.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 10/02/2009 @ 12:23pm
I don't think that Grayson is what the democrats need right now, especially with Obama's embarassment with the Chicago olympic loss.
Obama needs a victory on anything. If a compromise can be reached on health care reform, good. But idiots like Grayson, alienating all the republicans and any democrats with a sense of fairness, will not be of any help to his President at all.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/02/2009 @ 12:51pm
--you think you're witty in a sardonic fashion? or are you saying you enjoy people who have sardonic wit?
Posted by urmygyro at 10/02/2009 @ 10:09am
I wish I was better at it and I definitely enjoy it from those who are talented at it.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/02/2009 @ 1:02pm
I don't think that Grayson is what the democrats need right now, especially with Obama's embarassment with the Chicago olympic loss.
Obama needs a victory on anything. If a compromise can be reached on health care reform, good. But idiots like Grayson, alienating all the republicans and any democrats with a sense of fairness, will not be of any help to his President at all.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/02/2009 @ 12:51pm
You imply that it's been OK for the Republicans all this time to use harsh rhetoric ("death panels," "telling seniors to drop dead") and yet it's NOT OK for people like Grayson to do it. That's hypocrisy pure and simple. The Republicans are all in an uproar because someone started playing the game the way THEY play it, instead of being a meek and mild Democrat. I don't care if Grayson is alienating Republicans; they alienated the entire world for eight years and payback is a b*tch, ain't it?
As for Obama's "embarrasment" and "loss" of the Olympics...PUH-LEASE!! Rio was the choice because the Olympics have never been held in South America. They like to spread it around a little bit. Also, the Olympic committee is mad at America because of the right wing bombing in Atlanta and the scandal surrounding Mitt Romney's Olympics in Utah. Two black eyes for the Olympics movement because of the right wing of our political establishment. And the Republicans all saying that Obama should stay in Washington...conservatives slay me sometimes with the obvious hypocrisy.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 10/02/2009 @ 1:17pm
Please, enlighten me.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 10/02/2009 @ 12:10pm
He can't enlighten anyone. The guy has tunnel vision.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 10/02/2009 @ 1:18pm
He can't enlighten anyone. The guy has tunnel vision.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 10/02/2009 @ 1:18pm
Ooops. I was being "sardonic." :)
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 10/02/2009 @ 1:22pm
Tell you the truth, I much prefer my treehuggers and social misfits to your neo-nazis racists
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 10/01/2009 @ 6:32pm
Please, enlighten me.
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 10/02/2009 @ 12:10pm
No Republicans argued against expanding govt? Complete lie. There are 1000's of examples but I will name a few.
Ron Paul, Dick Armey, John McCain,National Review, Heritage Foundation, were all against the Medicare Drug Prescription Plan, just to name a few.
The 1983 Social Security Reform act which increased taxes for SSDI, only received a handful of Republican votes
People like Jack Kemp, Dick Cheney, were not in favor of it.
I have opposed all of these expansion measures
In 2005 and 2006 I posted on these pages and wrote to the RNC that they deserved to lose in 2006 if they didn't reverse their spending spree.
Last year I wrote that they should not support Bush's bailout plan and House Republicans did not support it.
I don't want any racists supporting conservativism. That is an asinine comment from you. Of course there is some racism against Obama, and it's despicable. But that doesn't mean that the majority of conservatives agree or support it.
I don't want racists to get any press. I'd love for them to go back to their cockroach holes.
I don't care about Beck or Hannity. They don't represent me and I don't watch or listen to them. I really don't know Beck and I dislike Hannity.
Being against unconstitutional actions does not equate being for the status quo. That is really a stupid argument and typical of a leftist.
I stand by my comments. There is no factual basis to your lies. You merely regurgitate what far left sites spin to you. You are a liar and a bigot.
Posted by antisocialist at 10/02/2009 @ 2:10pm
Remember when the Republican Party was largely represented by men and women who believed that the nation's affairs affected ALL Americans?When men and women of intelligence could present alternative ideas and do it with a civil
Names come to mind,,,,Goldwater,Brook,Javits,Case,Hatfield,Danforth,Margaret Chase Smith,Mathias, ,,Keating,Percy,Vandenberg,Dirksen,Scott, for example,in the United States Senate,,,,,and like numbers in the House,,who took the oath to "defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic so help me God" as a serious obligation and a pledge of honor.George Bush referred to the Constitution as "just a piece of paper".
Grover Norquist and his ilk have no use for anything that says "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Just think,the Civil Rights Act of 1965 got more Republican votes than Democrats!
Picture that happening now! The hatred of a black man in the White House is palpable,civil rights be damned!
Now what operates as the GOP is a bunch of dullard "body snatchers" who want legislation like school prayer,flag burning amendments,overturning Roe V Wade,expanded gun rights,restricting gays(except their own!),,and sit in self righteous indignation at the "sins" of the "other guys" but give Louisiana Senator Vitter a standing ovation after he has tearfully acknowledged his dealings with prostitutes and his name on every madam's Rollidex from DC to New Orleans!
Of course,all these efforts to legislate m
Posted by SAMTHEMAN at 10/02/2009 @ 2:36pm
Of course,all these efforts to legislate morality and keep government off our backs only apply to those things the Right doesn't approve,,,letting the government get between you and your doctor is a no-no except to the keeping of a human vegetable alive named Schiavo.
And Senator Ensign who tried to get his affair with a member of his staff swept under the rug by enlisting his fellow right wing senators to find a job for her husband!
And Senator Larry Craig,a big outspoken homophobe,caught by an under cover cop as he tried to "make nice" playing "footsie" in a Minneapolis men's room.
Dullard is the correct noun....these creepy right wingers don't give a rat's patoot about the nation,,they want that PLUM TREE for themselves and believe sincerely in the notion,,"Do As I Say,Not As I Do!"
It's too bad some of the younger members of this cabal don't recall the time when the GOP was truly the Grand Old Parrty!
Hope springs eternal,,,,but I am not optimistic.
Posted by SAMTHEMAN at 10/02/2009 @ 2:39pm
a little birdie told me that for the last 2 presidential terms the executive branch was able to do anything under a state of national emergency - well how about we declare a state of national emergency due to the freakin pig flu - and the government can take over all the hmo's and private insurers/hospitals - and voila - we will have government health care - just like europe and canada ..etc. ok so that's never gonna happen, but a girl can dream?
Posted by bay_area_painting at 10/02/2009 @ 3:44pm
I don't think that Grayson is what the democrats need right now, especially with Obama's embarassment with the Chicago olympic loss.
whattabunchofcrap. Chicago "lost". they chose someone else at the dance. it's not Obama's loss.
Posted by emile duBois at 10/02/2009 @ 5:24pm
Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 10/02/2009 @ 1:17pm | ignore this person | warn this person
right. also the US had the Olympics twice in recent years. it was simply south america's turn.
Posted by emile duBois at 10/02/2009 @ 5:26pm
Posted by SAMTHEMAN at 10/02/2009 @ 2:39pm | ignore this person | warn this person
the Ensign case is a doozy. hush money here and there, jobs provided in nepotism, just pure gold.
Posted by emile duBois at 10/02/2009 @ 5:32pm
At last, a Democrat who doesn't pussyfoot around!
Grayson is my hero!
Posted by TrishR at 10/03/2009 @ 5:18pm
Thank God for Grayson!! The Republicans have been getting away with murder, literally - it is about time to fight fire with fire!! What was wrong with Obama talking up the USA? It was a valiant effort, not a defeat. The Olympics have never been held in South America - it is their time, congratulations is in order.
Posted by aleta10 at 10/03/2009 @ 8:02pm
"Joe Wilson has NO need to apologize for anything, or the Demoncrats are the biggest national hypocrits ever!" (Judas #1)
"I think he horrified more than the repubs, he made himself and his base stand out exactly where they are.... Far left and out. " (Judas #2)
As long as it hurts the servants of big money in this country, then we will know that Grayson was right.
I have been patiently waiting for a Democrat to be as outspoken as Grayson. Cheers! His most central truth: "drop dead if sick", is what hurts most Reps. Remember all those Rep Congressmen recommending people to sell their home and ask for charity to receive treatment??
These are today's Nazis, disguised as Christians.
Posted by Frank42 at 10/04/2009 @ 4:12pm
The fact that jackasses like jomomma and big pasture attempt to compare joe wilson to Congressman Grayson is indicative of how disturbed and insane they really are!!! There is NO comparison! What wilson did should have gotten him arrested and dragged out of the Obama speech kicking and screaming like the idiots all rebublicans trully are!!! He should be impeached! He was wrong to ejaculate his own LIE!!! But the way he did it was bullshit!!! When the illegally appointed bush spoke.... EVERY Democrat should have done it over and over until bush balled his eyes out. bush WAS a mistake and should never have been allowed into the office of the presidency.
If rebublicans cannot stand to hear and see a strong Democrat call them what they are.....they TOO BAD!!!! The rebublican party is impotent!!! And they castrated themselves!!!
Posted by Tiger2Lover at 10/05/2009 @ 04:40am
What was wrong with Obama talking up the USA? It was a valiant effort, not a defeat. The Olympics have never been held in South America - it is their time, congratulations is in order.
Posted by aleta10 at 10/03/2009 @ 8:02pm
Yes, it does feel good to see a US President going abroad and saying good things about the country.
Posted by Mistral at 10/05/2009 @ 08:18am