The Cheney-Like Secrecy of the Obama White House

Those of us who proposed the impeachment of Vice President Dick Cheney for violating his oath of office and engaging in a Nixon-on-steroids spree of high crimes and misdemeanors began to recognize the abusive nature of the previous administration when Cheney refused to release details of the industry insiders with whom he met to craft energy policies.

The refusal of the Bush-Cheney administration to permit public review of White House visitor logs detailing who was meeting with the vice president's energy task force during the very first weeks of their tenure was a deliberate decision made to cloak dirty dealing by officials who were determined to serve corporate rather than public interests.

It also provided an early indicator that darker and dirtier deeds would eventually be done by Cheney and his compatriots. And they were.

So what should we make of the news that the Obama administration is now refusing to release White House visitor logs that detail meetings between members of the new administration and health-care industry insiders?

As Sharon Theimer, of The Associated Press, notes:

(The) administration's multibillion-dollar deals with hospitals and pharmaceutical companies have been made in private, and the results were announced after the fact. Both industries promised Obama cost savings in return for an expanded base of insured patients; beyond that, the public is in the dark about details.

In some ways, it resembles what his party criticized President George W. Bush for doing with oil and gas companies as Vice President Dick Cheney wrote a national energy plan in the early days of the Bush administration.

As the Bush White House did, the Obama White House is refusing to release visitor logs that would let people see everyone going in and out during the thick of discussions over major national policies.

There is a lot of talk about the fact that Obama has broken a campaign promise.

That's serious.

But far more serious is the perpetuation of practices of official secrecy that characterized the Bush-Cheney den of iniquity.

When administrations begin to enjoy the benefits of operating in the dark, they become disinclined to end the practice. They also begin to buy into the fantasy that keeping details from Congress and the people is the only way to get things done, as did Obama White House spokesman Reid Cherlin when he tried to explain away a lack of transparency by saying: "Here's what's happening: Groups that have steadfastly opposed reform in the past are coming to the table and making concessions -- because they know we can't wait another year to pass health insurance reform."

Actually, bad players are embracing bad compromises because they have made bad deals with the White House.

And, make no mistake, more bad things will happen.

Only whack jobs who believe that Barack Obama was birthed in Jakarta could imagine that this administration might ever be as corrupt as its predecessor. Bush and Cheney achieved Warren Harding levels of official crookedness.

However, bad-but-not-quite-Cheney-bad is an unacceptable standard.

Official secrecy, especially when it involves meetings by White House aides and representatives of corporate interests that face government regulation, is corrosive. It warps the official agenda and undermines the system of checks and balances -- making the legislative branch a weak second to a unitary executive.

Barack Obama promised when he sought the presidency to usher in a new era of openness and transparency. "We'll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN, so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies," candidate Obama declared at a Pennsylvania campaign stop two months before the 2008 election.

Now, he is doing the opposite.

Worse yet, he is perpetuating the foul practices of the most corrupt administration in American history.

Comments (126)

1. 'Worse yet, he is perpetuating the foul practices of the most corrupt administration in American history.'

   And expanding them.....see Jonathan Turley.....

   And perpetuation = institutionalization of such practices....

   Harry and Louise are spending alot of time in DC lately.....the smell of big profits in the air....."a little less politics (no transparency) and a little more cooperation (closed door deals), and we will get the job done."

   Posted by OneVote at 08/08/2009 @ 09:33am

2. 'By the White House tally, overall advertising so far by PhRMA and other supporters of the bill has swamped efforts by opponents. Republican strategists concede it would be extremely difficult to match an effort of the size PhRMA is planning.

   For comparative purposes, 2008 Republican presidential candidate John McCain was limited to spending $84 million a year ago when he accepted government money for his fall campaign.

   Independent calculations show Healthy Economy Now has spent about $12 million on three ads that ran nationally and in 17 states and the District of Columbia.

   The messages meshed with the White House's changing rhetoric. An ad that began in mid-June said patients would be able to choose their own doctors. Another, launched in mid-July, focused on consumer protections, including a ban on insurance companies denying coverage due to pre-existing medical conditions.

   To make the ads, the group hired GMMB, a political consulting and advocacy advertising firm with close ties to the White House and Senate Democrats, as well as AKPD, top White House strategist David Axelrod's former firm.

   Jeremy Van Ess, a spokesman for Health Economy Now, said the decisions were made by the organization, and not at the White House's request.'

   Excerpt:

   Obama's health care plan helped by drug industry Assist from drug industry in trying to help Obama remake the nation's health care system

   By David Espo, AP Special Correspondent On Saturday August 8, 2009, 9:26 am EDT

   David Axelrod also astroturfed "yes we can" and "change you can believe in"......

   So....is there any reason to believe the sale's pitch this time?

   Fool me once...........

   Posted by OneVote at 08/08/2009 @ 09:45am

3. NICHOLS: ...the Obama administration is now refusing to release White House visitor logs that detail meetings .....Barack Obama promised when he sought the presidency to usher in a new era of openness and transparency.....Now, he is doing the opposite."

   Doesn't this mean Magic is just an old-fashioned pol?

   Doesn't this mean Magic's distinguishing `winning' trick is his blackness that gave absolution to a lot of moderates and indies to feel good about voting for him?

   Doesn't this mean the MSM, and more so the Far Left Media (read: The Nation) were so "thrilled up the legs" that they were in fact, the most gullible of all?

   How does Hopey and Changey work for you now?

   Lastly, ya think I am enjoying all this spectacle more than you?

   Posted by Happy at 08/08/2009 @ 09:49am

4. What happened to all the talk about transparency?

   The absurdity of government officials' actions never ceases to amaze me. We keep visitor logs at the White House for the very reason that public scrutiny will be available. I'm posting a solution at transparency.gov if anyone wants to find it by searching "visitor logs"

   Posted by thekingofcheap at 08/08/2009 @ 10:08am

5. I am very disappointed with Obama and becoming disillusioned about his campaign promises. He is showing himself to be like the Democratic Congress in their lack of courage and intestinal fortitude. Instead of acting on the mandate they received last november and forging ahead on their beliefs and convictions, they're proceeding with timidity and with the next election in mind. I thought Obama would be a leader insted of governing by the winds of polls. It seems that Dems and GOP are all the same. Their's an insidious disease of power that pervades Washington and affects all these elected officials. Their reality is to keep their seats and the public's welfare and benefit be damned. GUTLESS ALL!!!!

   Posted by Gianrico at 08/08/2009 @ 10:32am

6. The news this morning is that Obama has promised the pharmaceutical lobby that his health care "reform" plan will "draw the line at price control" meaning he promised the lobby that the public option will not be able to legally barter with the industry for drug prices, or re-import cheaper drugs from foreign locales like Canada.

   This is terrible for more than one reason:

   * The policy he wishes to have on "price control" is the continuation of one of the more despicable and corrupt Bush-era policies. "Change", indeed.

   * One great way to insure that the public option is less competitive with private options is to guarantee that the government will pay any price a pharmaceutical manufacturer demands.

   * This agreement with the industry insures that health care costs will go up, not down.

   * This agreement perpetuates the doting system of patent monopolies that allows pharmaceutical manufacturers to charge prices for their drugs that run at 100 times the cost of manufacturer.

   * The agreement with the lobby insures that the public's money will continue to be exploited by robber-baron drug companies.

   Clearly we don't have the logs of who visited the White House, but we can tell by the outcome nonetheless.

   With every passing week, President Obama is more and more a fraud.

   Posted by syfriendly at 08/08/2009 @ 10:46am

7. Obama was always a fraud.. You elected someone who has no experience in life outside Affirmative Action advantages, from private schools in Hawaii to Harvard(someone else always paid the bill and he got "special treatment" to the point it is now expected) and the Chicago machine...all else is being run by thePelosi/Emmanuel/Leahey crowd with the union thugs enforcing and the MSM cheer leading.

   Welcome to the club..no matter how late the fog is clearing..the vision becomes clear...and in the process you dont have to abandon your beliefs or principles..left or right.....but this guy is a stooge of a crowd that if you look inside you won't like any more than the guys you didnt like behind Bush...and conservatives don't like Bush...either of them.

   Posted by YourJomamma at 08/08/2009 @ 11:06am

8. Obama is proving to be an honest pol, as once bought, he stays bought. GovtSachs, Big Pharma, happy campers all. The rest of us, we celebrate eloquence, intelligence, the breaking of a racial barrier ... and that's about it. Enjoy.

   Posted by sloper at 08/08/2009 @ 11:11am

9. The problem of health care is not insurance companies making a profit, but rather who they exclude and why...change these items as a start and health care will start to improve dramtically....and put the govt where it belongs...over seeing the legalities of the transactions between consumer and vendor, and not having the govt run the entire enterprise turning us all into the victims of the process...like most of us feel about TSA...not safer, just irritated by the over priced incompentents entrenched and mandated, unionised and provide nothing of value for the investment....while the bomb parts the FBI send through in consistant testing get through..80% 0f the time un noticed...but they get my toothe paste with 1 oz left in a 4 oz tube...confiscated because the tube reads 4 oz...when full.

   Posted by YourJomamma at 08/08/2009 @ 11:12am

10. What was it that Who song said?

    "Meet the new boss Same as the old boss"

    And what was the name of that song?

    Posted by Citizen54 at 08/08/2009 @ 11:13am

11. "The rest of us, we celebrate eloquence, intelligence, the breaking of a racial barrier ... and that's about it. Enjoy.

    Posted by sloper at 08/08/2009 @ 11:11am

    Yes, you are left celebrating things that in the big picture are of no consequence to the game....

    ..and you have been doing that for years thinking you are doing something that matters...when in reality..it does not...

    ..you have bought into the liberal play book, cheering with tears in your eyes for you are now going to right al;l the wrongs and flowers will bloom in the world, but are never allowed into the game.

    Evidence..

    Iraq different? yup, no protesters now, but same deal.

    Afaganistan?

    Federal spending? No stimulus, just Obama supporters got paid..unions got GM, Waxman types will get health care..

    Lower taxes for middle class?..nope..may get tax increase for health care..

    economy better? nope, worse..and higher unemployment on the way with no growth..and cap and trade will cause even more job issues..

    hows your currency looking to the world?

    and on and on..

    Posted by YourJomamma at 08/08/2009 @ 11:19am

12. You all have been Punked.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 08/08/2009 @ 11:20am

13. And what was the name of that song?

    Posted by Citizen54 at 08/08/2009 @ 11:13am | ignore this person | warn this person

    "We Won't Get Fooled Again"

    Posted by OneVote at 08/08/2009 @ 11:28am

14. Punked despite the rest of us screaming at you "...there's the truck with the cameras coming down the road, says "Punk Mobile" all over the truck in bright letters, and it is the one from the Punked promoter!!!"

    and you missed it completely because you didnt like the messenger...

    I am off to the golf course...have a nice weekend.

    BTW, those pepole at the congressional Town Hall Meetings are not profesion agitaters like Code Pink et. al.,....

    ..they are a different group that many of the congresssmen have never heard of or seen before...

    and neither have many here at the NATION...

    they are not "community organisers" ......

    tax paying voters.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 08/08/2009 @ 11:28am

15. Posted by Happy at 08/08/2009 @ 09:49am |

    "Doesn't this mean Magic is just an old-fashioned pol?"

    "Doesn't this mean Magic's distinguishing `winning' trick is his blackness that gave absolution to a lot of moderates and indies to feel good about voting for him?"

    You think we voted against McCain and Palin for being white?!

    "Doesn't this mean the MSM, and more so the Far Left Media (read: The Nation) were so "thrilled up the legs" that they were in fact, the most gullible of all?"

    When given a choice between more of the same, why wouldn't we avoid the insanity of repetition?

    "How does Hopey and Changey work for you now?"

    UE 9.5% -> 9.4%. Took Reagan two years for his 'tax cuts and tough love' to turn his recession around, right?

    "Lastly, ya think I am enjoying all this spectacle more than you?"

    I should hope you've enjoyed the stock market going from Dow 8k to Dow 9k+ over the last few months.

    Posted by snowball777 at 08/08/2009 @ 12:24pm

16. But you all just don't understand. Obama is a Progressive, and that means his heart is pure, his motivations are for the good of the people, and he must only be judged by his intentions. I'm sure it must pain him terribly to be forced to do naughty things for our own good and for the establishment of a more just and fair society. But we all know that evil done for a greater good is not really so bad. We must trust him and not question the things he does just like Bush and Cheney.

    </bs>

    Posted by sntauri at 08/08/2009 @ 12:34pm

17. Posted by sntauri at 08/08/2009 @ 12:34pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Yeowsa massa! "Now what we have here boys is failure to communicate"

    Should it be in the word of that great philosopher Cool hand Luke "I got my mind right boss" ? Yessa boss I'm sipping my koolaide right here boss!

    Posted by BigPasture at 08/08/2009 @ 12:45pm

18. They also begin to buy into the fantasy that keeping details from Congress and the people is the only way to get things done, as did Obama White House spokesman Reid Cherlin when he tried to explain away a lack of transparency by saying: "Here's what's happening: Groups that have steadfastly opposed reform in the past are coming to the table and making concessions -- because they know we can't wait another year to pass health insurance reform." Nichols

    I have to disagree with you Mr Nichols. First, you can't dare to compare the Obama administration with Cheney's conduct, the whole idea of that comparison is immoral because it stains an administration that is for change and for the people with other that was for lying to the people and backing special interests. 2nd, because we should all be behind the administration to win this health care battle.

    The difference between you and me is faith. I still have faith, I believe that the administration is looking for the greater good of America. It might be candor, but I have no reasons to distrust Obama. The administration has the right to hear everyone ( even HMO's have a say, at least they have been in the business for a while, isn't it?) , and since negotiations with Congress, Blue dogs, and maybe a handful of Reps are coming and going, they are crafting the finest line possible that will be acceptable so that legislation is passed. It might not be the best (like say a single payer system), but that is our first goal, we are all for it.

    Debate is out there, and has been as healthy as it can be. Fine. Another issue is saying who was the author of this or that idea. That might be pretty sensitive, we don't want it now. I believe therefore he is negotiating for the people. If he vetoes a legislation then we will now.

    Posted by Frank42 at 08/08/2009 @ 1:10pm

19. ..I do not think we will ever have health care reform until we take all the health care benefits away from the politicians -.- while they recieve all of their campaign contributions from these lobbyists it is impossible to have an honest open vote on anyhting...Ye Ole PAY to Play -.- the smoke and mirrors syndrome -.- the one hand washes the other... You may not re-import drugs and save money ( Congress ruled on that - for the people??? or for the industry$$$$$ ) REPEAL THE SECRECY ACT - RESTORE WE THE PEOPLE

    Posted by bbednarz at 08/08/2009 @ 1:21pm

20. Re- Secret meetings... I hate to say anything noncritical of the Obama gang, (I feel like a cat coughing up a hair ball here), but that IS the only way to get stuff done in DC.

    Ok, now for the critical - it is very likely the Obama administration will be much more corrupt than the Bush administration. (The Obama gang is from Chicago after-all.) That was easy. At least the Bush gang was occupied trying to fight a life-and-death war. The opportunities for true corruption were much less.

    It's almost like the Obamas are saying "You think the Bushes were corrupt - ha, that's nothing, watch this." Much like the Russians after our Three Mile Island, to get the attention back, they up and did Chernoble - beat that! :)

    Posted by pyeatte at 08/08/2009 @ 6:55pm

21. Speaking of secrecy, I haven't seen anything on The Nation regarding Bill's Excellent Adventure to North Korea. Are we to believe that he went over on his own accord as a "private citizen"? Or did the Obama Administration arrange the trip secretly?

    We all know that no ex-president can ever be considered a "private citizen". So, how about some details? And Opinions?

    Posted by twillie at 08/08/2009 @ 7:25pm

22. Should it be in the word of that great philosopher Cool hand Luke "I got my mind right boss" ? Yessa boss I'm sipping my koolaide right here boss!

    Posted by BigPasture at 08/08/2009 @ 12:45pm

    What we have here is failure to commnicate.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 08/08/2009 @ 7:37pm

23. Frank 42,

    " First, you can't dare to compare the Obama administration with Cheney's conduct, the whole idea of that comparison is immoral because it stains an administration that is for change and for the people with other that was for lying to the people and backing special interests. "

    This is a recipe for kool aid....

    you ARE being lied to...you just agree with Obamas version and not BUsh....

    tell me besided destroying whats left of out currency, economy with spending that went to his supporters but was called "stimulus"......

    whats changed? Iraq?

    Afganistran?

    deficit spending?

    Transparency?

    Partriot Act?

    Come on man WAKE UP!!! And whip the koolaid off your chin and the brown shit off your nose...

    not 2 years nor 4 years will get the economy moving like it should...these clowns have thrown out anchors all over the place while the boat is in a swamp.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 08/08/2009 @ 7:45pm

24. I voted for this son of a bitch simply because I did not want mccain in the White House. Mistake. obama is a fucking coward, period. mccain is a war criminal and a coward. It feels like shit when we have little to choose from.

    Posted by Tiger2Lover at 08/08/2009 @ 8:21pm

25. "You all have been Punked"(YourJomamma)

    You betcha.

    Not that it matters, but does it really matter whether he just lied or was handpicked and groomed by the Bush dictatorship? Personally, I find it too much of a stretch to believe he lied pure and simple. It's just too coincidental that he refuses to prosecute war crimes AND has adhered to, and even accentuated, absolutely everything the previous fuhrer implemented. Throughout history dictatorships have never ever ever been overturned by peaceful democratic means.This has been years in the making.And it's not over. Hell, Obama is even flagrantly supporting the Honduras coup. We haven't addressed anything, not even Diebold. What The Matter With Kansas?

    Posted by mystic at 08/08/2009 @ 9:05pm

26. Posted by Tiger2Lover at 08/08/2009 @ 8:21pm

    There a phone call for you...the ringing is in coming from the over..turn on thre gas, open the door ,place you head into the open space as arf as you can go,and breathe deeply..once you here the slight ringing, flick you lighter to find the source...you will be better in a flash.

    We will all be the better here when you answer the phone..I promise, the ringing in your head will go away...

    Posted by YourJomamma at 08/08/2009 @ 9:44pm

27. Posted by mystic at 08/08/2009 @ 9:05pm

    Obama is just like Bush only 10 times worse...Bush was and is a liberal...Obama is a socialist with Marxist leanings but doesn't believe it or even know it...he spent his developmental years from 3 rd to high school outside the US in schools and societies that dislike the American everything plus the earlky influence of Islamic teachings...after that it was Affirmative Action all the way, raised by white liberals and a single disinterested mother...

    ..followed by Afirmative Action into Harvard and you have a perfect storm of anti American capitalism merged with Black liberation theology and anti capitalist core...perfect "Progressive" candidate....and now the Chicago machine thugs running the inner corridor of the WH and you have someone who has never really had to make a decision on his own without "guidance", and you figure who the guidance comes from....so we have Pelosi and company buying jets...

    this is a complete circus and will melt down under its own...Bush was a disaster for conservatives, as is Obama, but in the end he may ressurect conservatitvism....

    not because of great Republicans in the wings(there are none), but by default..and coming out of now where and surprise the dems and the repubs, there might be an unknown hope..and the dance begins again.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 08/08/2009 @ 9:54pm

28. And my hope it aint named Clinton or Bush..

    ....but I sense we are not done with either family...

    Posted by YourJomamma at 08/08/2009 @ 9:57pm

29. Obama is just like Bush only 10 times worse...

    •• no, obama is 37% better than bush.

    Bush was and is a liberal...

    •• bush was lost.

    Obama is a socialist with Marxist leanings

    •• now this is just plain dumb.

    but doesn't believe it or even know it.

    •• nor do the folks at goldman.

    he spent his developmental years from 3 rd to high school outside the US in schools and societies that dislike the American everything plus the earlky influence of Islamic teachings...

    •• well, you're the one who always says how crappy the schools are..... •• i bet he's a secret towelhead. or maybe even an undercover negro.

    after that it was Affirmative Action all the way, raised by white liberals and a single disinterested mother...

    •• that mother. too bad she couldn't whip a little white into him.

    ..followed by Afirmative Action into Harvard and you have a perfect storm of anti American capitalism merged with Black liberation theology and anti capitalist core...

    •• THE MAGIC NEGRO!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/08/2009 @ 10:36pm

30. Posted by YourJomamma at 08/08/2009 @ 11:19am | ignore this person | warn this person

    You ever meet anyone who talks about themselves like they have always been the hero... People that never have a self-deprecating story or anecdote that lets you know they screw up too..??

    My point, where were you right wing tools when ol' Dubya was screwing the pooch on a regular basis..?? Do you 'ingrates' think after 7 months in office, Obama should have everything cleaned up ..?? Hardly...

    When his turn is up, if the country is still in the tank, vote him out. 7 months in and you think you got his number... You all have the patience of a 4 yr old...

    And happy, could you be more of a KKK card carrying racist ..?? Probably not.. Too bad D. Duke wasn't on the ticket last year with ol' Johnny Mac HUH ?? Your a sad excuse for an American citizen.

    Posted by Vvf1969 at 08/08/2009 @ 10:49pm

31. And happy, could you be more of a KKK card carrying racist ..?? Probably not.. Too bad D. Duke wasn't on the ticket last year with ol' Johnny Mac HUH ?? Your a sad excuse for an American citizen.

    Posted by Vvf1969 at 08/08/2009 @ 10:49pm

    You guilt-ridden Libs who drank Magic's Kool-aid and swore him The Messiah are cracking up.

    You're just this blog's version of Magic telling folks NOT TO TALK, Pelosi calling the opposition as carrying swatstikas, the Black House asking citizens to report "FISHY" comments......what a specatcle! There may have been more fucked up Admin. but they didn't have the modern internet to instantaneously expose them.....

    It sure looks to me, some heads need to roll.....Fishy Rahm Emmanual is stinking up the place and Magic ain't got a nose worth shit!

    Posted by Happy at 08/08/2009 @ 11:13pm

32. Comparing Obama to Cheney is just stupid. That being said, how many phone calls and e-mails have you all sent to your reps and Senators, expressing your desires and reminding them of your clout as an activist, voter and donor? Healthcare is really hard to do. You can see what the insurance companies are doing right now, turning Obama into a Nazi who will kill babies and old people. If Pharma gets into the act, the bill will be killed. period. Thus the deal. Trouble is, the left wanted single payer, when that was not on the table, they more or less left the stage. Public option die-hards hung around a little longer, but thier hopes seem to be fading. I agree with the writer that Obama has framed the argument unwisely, but whom does he have in the Senate to champion the bill? Unfortunately, not Ted Kennedy. Would you say Schumer, who wanted a trigger?? Or Dodd, who is worried about his reelection in a state that is run by the insurance companies? Pelosi has fought hard, but I just don't see the legislators on TV or elsewhere talking up the bill with great enthusiasm. Now you want OFA to get busy. Why don't you get busy??? Instead of sitting back and criticizing. There are five committees working on this legislation. It is complicated and difficult, and many dems want Obama to just fail on this, for whatever reason - racism, their insurance lobby money, etc. So I am not going to get all excited about Obama making a deal with Big Pharma. The forces he is up against are bigger than Big Oil. He cut the deal because he wants a bill. I, too, hope the congress can circumvent this, and that the dems have the balls to stand up for the people, for once..give them a call.

    Posted by jonnirae at 08/09/2009 @ 02:34am

33. Mr Nichols' talent for hyperbole and over-reactioni is legendary.

    Posted by Mask at 08/09/2009 @ 07:06am

34. Posted by twillie at 08/08/2009 @ 7:25pm

    Bill got two Americans out of a N. Korean gulag.

    And you seek to find something wrong with that?

    Go strap on your tea bag and disrupt a town meeting.

    ----------------

    JOMMAMA, read the comments, turns out the "left" is not so high on "the Messiah". Unlike your 6 year love affair with Bush, which appeared to end when Sumers/Bush "saved" your capitalism utopia from collapse. I know this might be hard for you to follow, but the last 12 months economic news and unemployment are (as much as can be blamed on govt) the result of Bush policies. Obamas have not even had time to get going yet.

    I wonder what is like to consider oneself omniscient yet be completely out of touch with reality...

    "after that it was Affirmative Action all the way, raised by white liberals and a single disinterested mother... "

    Obamas mother got him up at 4:00 am to study, before she went to work. That makes her "disinterested".

    Do you have anything to support your contention that he took advantage of affirmative action programs, other than the fact that he is half African?

    Or is this more of the Birther fact checking?

    Posted by crabwalk at 08/09/2009 @ 08:46am

35. over-reactioni

    Posted by Mask at 08/09/2009 @ 07:06am

    italian fascists!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/09/2009 @ 09:06am

36. Obamas have not even had time to get going yet.

    Posted by crabwalk at 08/09/2009 @ 08:46am

    not entirely true -- the choices of geithner, summers et al. speak trillions.....

    i do laugh, however, as they brand the darling of wall street a marxist.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/09/2009 @ 09:10am

37. "There is a lot of talk about the fact that Obama has broken a campaign promise."

    "a"?

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/09/2009 @ 09:12am

38. "blackreagan"..

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/09/2009 @ 10:19am

39. Obamanation and the Demoncrats are trying to take the FOCUS of their catastrophic "death bill" for American citizens health, but it is worse than that! The future is even MORE REDINK!

    "If you think the budget deficit and national debt are in bad shape now, you ain't seen nothing yet.

    So say Alan Auerbach, an economist at the University of California, Berkeley, and William Gale, vice president of the Brookings Institution.

    "By 2019, even if everything goes the way the Obama administration wants, and the economy recovers and grows steadily over the next decade, the deficit will be 5.5 percent of GDP," they write on CNNMoney.com

    That's "an extremely high figure in good times," the duo point out. "And the debt-to-GDP ratio will hit 82 percent, its highest level since just after World War II."

    But wait a minute, it gets worse, "Things aren't as likely to go as well as President Obama hopes," the economists explain.

    "The economy has already performed worse than was assumed in the budget projections, and the projections are based on heroically optimistic assumptions about the political discipline Congress will impose on itself."

    So what's the solution?

    "Policymakers can thread this needle by committing now to future spending cuts and tax increases, while at the same time being careful not to undo the current stimulus or hurt economic prospects right now," the economists maintain.

    The short-term picture isn't pretty for the budget deficit either. The gap already broke past $1 trillion in June for the year ending Sept. 30.

    "Many private analysts still expect the fiscal-year deficit to top $2 trillion," Insight Economics analyst Steven Wood told Dow ."

    Posted by BigPasture at 08/09/2009 @ 10:20am

40. At a recent town hall meeting, a man stood up and told Representative Bob Inglis to "keep your government hands off my Medicare." The congressman, a Republican from South Carolina, tried to explain that Medicare is already a government program -- but the voter, Mr. Inglis said, "wasn't having any of it."

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/09/2009 @ 10:23am

41. "Fishy Rahm Emmanual is stinking up the place and Magic ain't got a nose worth shit!" (Happy)

    Happy, you're onto something. Let's all remember the adage "He who whispers in the king's ear has all the power". It was true with Cheyney and it stands to reason that Rahm has taken his place; Extrapolate that, and it is Israel that is whispering in the king's ear. Extrapolate THAT and the nightmare is only just starting. Remember PNAC,and that clear blue morning in September? Wasn't it Bibi Netanyahu who confessed that it was Israel ONLY which benefitted from the Iraq war? Remember USS Liberty? Remember Anderson Cooper and his CNN expose? Your majesty, may I whisper more softly in your ear, lest others may hear?

    Posted by mystic at 08/09/2009 @ 11:38am

42. Where are the voices for the impeachment of Obama? Is it OK if a Democrat does it, a black Democrat? That sort of pass would be racist, wouldn't it?

    Posted by goedel at 08/09/2009 @ 11:50am

43. Here's a partial solution to the deficit: restore progressivism to the US tax code by raising taxes on those making over $250K.

    I'm bothered by the lack of openess regarding the visitor records. I can see no reason for it, now any more than when Cheney established the same policy. However, I'm not sure if it represents the kind of breathless dangers espoused in some of the above postings. I will say one thing: Presidents of either party don't easily give up privileges, so this was fairly predictable.

    This strikes me as a political cover issue: in a positive sense, it may allow for the meeting of parties in private for negotiations that would not occur if made public. In a negative sense, it could be revealing of undue influence from (take your pick) big corporations, unions, even (gasp!) Communist cells and fascist shock troops. However, overall health care reform has been relatively open compared, for example, to the effort in the Clinton years and the outright lying of the Bush/Cheney criminal regime. Most of the work is occuring in Congress, the White HOuse isn't dictating anything. We'll see what emerges.

    My hope is it doesn't get buried by a bunch of anti-American right wing crackpots whose sole source of inspiration is greed, hate and fear.

    Single payer makes the most sense.

    Posted by Dwight Wall at 08/09/2009 @ 1:27pm

44. One of the things that concerns me about the current Health Care debate is the focus almost solely on cost. Obama has tried to shift the focus to where it really belongs - outcomes - but everytime he does you have the right wing crackpots screaming "rationing", "he's going to euthenize the elderly", or, from that great whack job up north, "he's going to force abortions". No, actually what he is talking about is eliminating the huge amount of unnecessary (and obscenely profitable) procedures and techniques pushed by the health care industry. Every time I go to the doctor, they try to push another prescription drug on me, usually for pain relief. Talk about pushers!

    If cost is truly the key factor everyone says it is, then single payer is the only feasible solution. But, we have taken that "off the table". Even the public option appears to be getting gutted.

    In a society in which a huge industry representing 16% of GDP gains that power through socially damaging "market forces"; in a society corrupted by legalized graft and bribery on a massive scale, is it any wonder this is the direction the debate is going?

    Jonnarea is absolutely right - we need to make our voices heard and not allow this debate to be highjacked by the corrupt, the fearful, the greedy, and the haters.

    Posted by Dwight Wall at 08/09/2009 @ 1:59pm

45. Where are the voices for the impeachment of Obama? Is it OK if a Democrat does it, a black Democrat? That sort of pass would be racist, wouldn't it?

    Posted by goedel at 08/09/2009 @ 11:50am

    Let me get this straight: 8 years of blatent criminality and not a peep from the right. 8 months of dealing with a pile of overwhelming crises curtesy the previous jokers, and we want to impeach?

    My proposal is a good stiff drink. After all, who needs health reform when we can self-medicate....

    Posted by Dwight Wall at 08/09/2009 @ 2:19pm

46. Bill got two Americans out of a N. Korean gulag.

    And you seek to find something wrong with that?

    Posted by crabwalk at 08/09/2009 @ 08:46am

    That depends. What did it cost Bill, by extension Obama, and by extension, us? Apparently, Bill liked being the North Koreans' bitch so much the first time, he wanted to try it out again. According to the NKs, the talks with Bill were "far-ranging". So, what? Are we feeding their nuclear ambitions again? Or caving to their demands for bilateral, instead of six-sided talks? Apparently, when Dems like crab were taking Bush to task for not using "diplomacy", they meant he wasn't "bending over and grabbing his ankles". Damn war monger....

    Posted by twillie at 08/09/2009 @ 8:07pm

47. Lets face it. At least we gave ourselves a chance by voting for Obama, an unknown quantity. All the posters here who are laughing as if we were gullible for voting for him fail to say that the only other choice in the election was gramps McCain and Bailin Palin. In addition they laugh as if were gullible for thinking Obama could correct all these myriad of problems, problems which they fail to own up to, were created by their guy George W Bush. I always considered the possiblity that Obama could be bought and paid for and that we would not get change. It sure looks like that is the case now. The alternative of voting for the immoral flip flopping John McCain and the Ho from Wasilla was never even a night time wet dream.

    Posted by mrsanfran at 08/09/2009 @ 10:33pm

48. " and not having the govt run the entire enterprise turning us all into the victims of the process"

    ah, the ongoing mischaracterization of single payers systems.

    where to begin?

    maasch, let me spell this out for you clearly: under a single payer system, the government wouldn't "run" anything, they would merely get the bill.

    ok? do you understand?

    second, obama is NOT proposing a single payer system!

    ok?

    now please, go away, get a life. stop coming here and polluting the forum with your profoundly ignorant rantings....

    Posted by darladoon at 08/09/2009 @ 10:35pm

49. maasch apparently would rather have the private insurance industry "takeover" healthcare, get between patients and doctors, ration healthcare, deny healthcare, and cause bankruptcies.

    ah yes, profit is never a problem.

    Posted by darladoon at 08/09/2009 @ 10:37pm

50. maasch actually claimed that conservatives never liked bush!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    (quote of the millenium!)

    Posted by darladoon at 08/09/2009 @ 10:38pm

51. Darladoon I love your "Quotes" of the week. keep them coming, I missed not having them for the last week, thanks.

    Posted by Denise29 at 08/09/2009 @ 10:41pm

52. Posted by darladoon at 08/09/2009 @ 10:35pm

    Let me spell this out for you....you are pot soaked......

    Laurel and Hardey rolled into one.

    I am stunned and amazed constantly by how much you miss....

    itslike watching a drowning woman not see the ocean liner bearing doen on her ..

    entertaining to be sure and not to be taken seriously by any ome on thre right and about by halkf of those on theleft...

    after reading denise...

    and her posts..

    I rest my case.

    at least you provide entertainment EVERY time you post..a

    Posted by YourJomamma at 08/09/2009 @ 11:55pm

53. gullible for thinking Obama could correct all these myriad of problems, problems which they fail to own up to, were created by their guy George W Bush.

    Posted by mrsanfran at 08/09/2009 @ 10:33pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    That is so dumb and myopic it hardly rates discussing as it has been adnauseum! The banking and financial services were overseen by Demoncrats who ran congress during the Bush years, tsome of the most damaging legislation was don by the Demoncrats during the Carter reign of terror who is only eclipsed by the Obamanation and Demoncrats today!

    Posted by BigPasture at 08/10/2009 @ 12:49am

54. Posted by BigPasture at 08/09/2009 @ 10:20am

    this from a man who cheered on the most reckless spender in our history, george w. bush.

    i just love how the malkins, the limbaughs, the o'reillys, et al, conveniently leave out just how extraordinarily catastrophic was the prior president's economy, not to mention his profound stupidity.

    Posted by darladoon at 08/10/2009 @ 12:52am

55. #

    At a recent town hall meeting, a man stood up and told Representative Bob Inglis to "keep your government hands off my Medicare." The congressman, a Republican from South Carolina, tried to explain that Medicare is already a government program -- but the voter, Mr. Inglis said, "wasn't having any of it."

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/09/2009 @ 10:23am

    I told you that Canadians are smarter than your average American when it comes to health care.

    Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 08/10/2009 @ 12:54am

56. maasch, let me spell this out for you clearly: under a single payer system, the government wouldn't "run" anything, they would merely get the bill.

    Posted by darladoon at 08/09/2009 @ 10:35pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    This third or fourth generation "welfare queen" mentality always looks to the magic printing press in the sky treasury for her manna from heaven! Never paying a dime in taxes while smoking illegal drugs gives clear economic visions like this!

    Posted by BigPasture at 08/10/2009 @ 12:54am

57. "The banking and financial services were overseen by Demoncrats who ran congress during the Bush years,"----Posted by BigPasture at 08/10/2009 @ 12:49am

    RIO, why did the Demoncrats who ran congress during the Bush years...

    elect Dennis Hastert as their Speaker and Bill Frist as their Senate Majority Leader?!??!??!?!?!?!?????

    Posted by Mask at 08/10/2009 @ 08:50am

58. I said it back during the primaries that Obama was a centrist and a sell-out and sure enough, it's like Bill Clinton was elected to a third term. Actual health care takes a back seat to preserving the health insurance and pharmaceutical companies, their profit margins and executive bonuses, while the secrecy and backroom dealings of Hillary Care are filtered through Bush/Cheney-era practices and justifications.

    The degradation of civil liberties and judicial oversight are carried forward from the Effective Death Penalty Act through the terror memos, et al.

    Government services from parks to libraries to home healthcare are slashed and burned (proving that there's no one like a supposed friend when you need to stick the knife in).

    Manufacturing is written off as oh so 19th century but we can't rein in Big Finance. In fact, the basic economic plan seems to be to prime the pump for the next bubble (Go Green!) in order to fill the pockets of the parasites on Wall Street while real wages continue their 30-year stagnation, pensions are wiped out and the cost of other benefits shifted to employees and the public.

    I've written and called my congressional reps and senators, the White House and sundry other public officials over the years, but I am proud to say that, outside of a few non-partisan school board elections, I haven't voted for a Republican or a Democrat in 25 years.

    Posted by cka2nd at 08/10/2009 @ 10:30am

59. So what should we make of the news that the Obama administration is now refusing to release White House visitor logs that detail meetings between members of the new administration and health-care industry insiders?

    We have to assume that the administration is just as dark and dirty as the previous administration and impeachment proceedings should begin forthwith.

    Posted by abell12ct at 08/10/2009 @ 10:59am

60. "I haven't voted for a Republican or a Democrat in 25 years."----Posted by cka2nd at 08/10/2009 @ 10:30am

    Wouldn't that have something to do with the fact that you are a self-admitted socialist?

    Posted by Mask at 08/10/2009 @ 11:34am

61. Wouldn't that have something to do with the fact that you are a self-admitted socialist?

    Posted by Mask at 08/10/2009 @ 11:34am | ignore this person | warn this person

    Oh Maskie....come on........you are better than this.

    Some folks don't make fine distinctions between pickpockets and muggers when it comes to the fate of the wallet.

    Posted by OneVote at 08/10/2009 @ 11:45am

62. Posted by OneVote at 08/10/2009 @ 11:45am

    CKA making an invalid use of "denying both his support"...given he is an ADMITTED socialist, and therefore would have little reason to vote for a Democrat (except Bernie Sanders) and NO reason to vote for a Republican....

    so his "Because they ignored my petitioning grievances ...I stopped voting for both" claim superfluous, since he'd have no reason to support them regardless of their treatment of him, right?

    Posted by Mask at 08/10/2009 @ 12:32pm

63. Some folks don't make fine distinctions between pickpockets and muggers when it comes to the fate of the wallet.

    Posted by OneVote at 08/10/2009 @ 11:45am

    Do you mean to say there is a difference?

    ;-)

    Posted by YourJomamma at 08/10/2009 @ 12:32pm

64. The closed door meetings are illegal in more than one way, if they interfered with this provision in the Social security Act:

    PROHIBITION AGAINST ANY FEDERAL INTERFERENCE

    Sec. 1801. [42 U.S.C. 1395] Nothing in this title shall be construed to authorize any Federal officer or employee to exercise any supervision or control over the practice of medicine or the manner in which medical services are provided, or over the selection, tenure, or compensation of any officer or employee of any institution, agency, or person providing health services; or to exercise any supervision or control over the administration or operation of any such institution, agency, or person.

    https://www.ssa.gov/OP_Home/ssact/title18/1801.htm

    Posted by Rick9405 at 08/10/2009 @ 12:42pm

65. The banking and financial services were overseen by Demoncrats who ran congress during the Bush years

    Posted by BigPasture at 08/10/2009 @ 12:49am

    And your the one who accuses other of being dumb and myopic.

    From 1995 to 2007 the republicans controlled both the senate and the HOR(e). Bush was president from 2001 to 2009. So for six of his 8 years it was all republicans all the time. But sure go ahead an blame the democrats, I know it helps you feel better and maintains your blind faith in the republican ideology. No matter that it ignores actual facts. But to call others names over your ignorance is just stupid.

    Futhermore. Don't presidents have a veto? Your like that kindergartner that spills the paint in front of the teacher and then points at the kid next to and blames them. It would take a seriously stupid teacher to not know what a blatent lie your telling. Sad thing is the American public is kinda like a stupid teacher.

    Posted by Extraneous at 08/10/2009 @ 12:42pm

66. If ever there was a list of American based terrorist organizations this is it! Most are funded directly or indirectly with taxpayer dollars pilfered by the Demoncrat party and the Obamanation!

    Their job ( and they will accept the "contracted hit") Is to terrorize American taxpayers, grandma and grandpa, mom and dad, American vetrens, small business owners, or any individual daring to show up and voice objection to the New Reich's power grab socializing forever the largest single sector of the American economy!

    SEIU AFSCME MoveOn NAACP National Council of La Raza ACORN AFL-CIO and Campaign for America's Future

    Watch the Demoncrats jackbooted minions and usable gullible fools coming to a townhall meeting near you!Dissent by the American public and freedom of speech will no longer be tolerated by the Obamanation that makes desolation!

    Posted by BigPasture at 08/10/2009 @ 12:52pm

67. The closed door meetings are illegal in more than one way, if they interfered with this provision in the Social security Act:

    Posted by Rick9405 at 08/10/2009 @ 12:42pm

    With a strong emphasis on IF!

    If they broke the law then it was illegal... Right. But IF they did not then, well...umm...I guess they were legal.

    Posted by Extraneous at 08/10/2009 @ 12:55pm

68. Some folks don't make fine distinctions between pickpockets and muggers when it comes to the fate of the wallet. Posted by OneVote at 08/10/2009 @ 11:45am Do you mean to say there is a difference? ;-) Posted by YourJomamma at 08/10/2009 @ 12:32pm

    Oh, huge difference.

    Mugger will beat your ass. Pickpocket, you don't know he's even been in there till it's gone. Big difference.

    Posted by schnellerheinz at 08/10/2009 @ 1:14pm

69. Posted by Mask at 08/10/2009 @ 12:32pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Well...perhaps. But could it be equally plausible (and perhaps less idealogical complex) that he felt that neither party was worth voting for, i.e., no substantial difference? 25 years ago....about the time of Iran-Contra.

    Would you agree that the Democratic Party has changed since Reagan era? I see more fusion than fission of the parties.

    Posted by OneVote at 08/10/2009 @ 1:36pm

70. Some folks don't make fine distinctions between pickpockets and muggers when it comes to the fate of the wallet.

    Posted by OneVote at 08/10/2009 @ 11:45am

    Do you mean to say there is a difference?

    ;-)

    Posted by YourJomamma at 08/10/2009 @ 12:32pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    The "victim" in both cases is without a wallet right?

    Posted by OneVote at 08/10/2009 @ 1:39pm

71. Posted by OneVote at 08/10/2009 @ 1:36pm

    If you mean they saw which way the political winds were blowing and moved with them....yes, it has changed.

    Now, the question becomes if "everybody is really a Bernie Sanders liberal"....why did they do that?

    Or maybe that's not the way things are?

    Same for the Right...why is it Bush HAD to run as a "compassionate conservative" in 2000 and why was McCain the 2008 nominee and not Sam Brownback or even The Incredible Huck?

    And why will the 2012 Repub nominee after running Hard Right in the primaries..."move Center" for the General Election?

    Posted by Mask at 08/10/2009 @ 1:41pm

72. I've written and called my congressional reps and senators, the White House and sundry other public officials over the years, but I am proud to say that, outside of a few non-partisan school board elections, I haven't voted for a Republican or a Democrat in 25 years.

    Posted by cka2nd at 08/10/2009 @ 10:30am

    so his "Because they ignored my petitioning grievances ...I stopped voting for both" claim superfluous, since he'd have no reason to support them regardless of their treatment of him, right?

    Posted by Mask at 08/10/2009 @ 12:32pm

    You know, it's always an open question as to whether Mask just can't read very well or is being intenionally dishonest. I never said that I stopped voting for Republicans or Democrats (or petit bourgeious politicians like Bernie Sanders - an independent, not a Dem - and the Greens) because they "ignored my petioning grievances." As should have been crystal clear from my use of the phrase "over the years" I have continued to petition our representatives even though I have not voted for them. Why? Because it can sometimes get results.

    Yes, Mask, I am a revolutionary socialist, a Trotskyist in fact, and have not hidden that fact here at TheNation.com. But many socialists and communists have voted Democratic for decades, from Democratic Socialists of America to the Communist Party, among other groups, and thousands of independent and non-party pinks and reds in between and even to the left. I've said before that this is a mistake, but I've never claimed that my position represents the majority of opinion on the far left.

    Posted by cka2nd at 08/10/2009 @ 1:46pm

73. Mugger will beat your ass. Pickpocket, you don't know he's even been in there till it's gone. Big difference.

    Posted by schnellerheinz at 08/10/2009 @ 1:14pm

    A friend of mine was in the midst of getting mugged when the mugger was distracted by a sound up the street...my friend pounced and beat the mugger up so bad that the guy probably went to the hospital...and then my friend stole everything the mugger had...

    Posted by YourJomamma at 08/10/2009 @ 2:01pm

74. Kinda sounds like what is happening to the Dem Congressman as they try to mug the old people at those town meetings..and then before the congressmen started hiring union thugs and letting the "un organised supporters" of the congressman in the back door...

    these old organised voters mugged the congressman before they themselves were about to be mugged by their "representatives"...

    I loved watching the congressman on Sunday squirm, blame, and twist the Town Meetings....best entertainment yet by the libs in Washington.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 08/10/2009 @ 2:05pm

75. Mugger will beat your ass. Pickpocket, you don't know he's even been in there till it's gone. Big difference.

    Posted by schnellerheinz at 08/10/2009 @ 1:14pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Ask victims of Bernie Madoff for instance. "I feel raped - mugged"

    Posted by OneVote at 08/10/2009 @ 2:12pm

76. Posted by YourJomamma at 08/10/2009 @ 2:05pm

    YJ,

    Whatever happened to the idea of civil discourse in America? You know, when two sides (or more) of equal American citizens could sit in a room, discuss matters and hear each side of the matter in question.

    Your side (and the side of bid insurance companies), for the sake of delivering a political "defeat" to a new and popular President, seems to be advocating the idea that if a bunch of people just got to these town hall meetings and scream at their representatives, then that is somehow forwarding the process and is a model of democracy.

    I have no problem with protest. Protest is good and fine. Protest that disrupts a representative from hearing from a cross section of his or her constituents is harmful to the body politik. While I am not calling these people Nazis, they ARE using the same tactics used by the Nazi Party (before it gained power) to simply "out shout" anyone who disagrees with them. The fact that some of these people are bussed in to districts from outside districts (or states in some cases), is REALLY harmful to the democratic process because the representatives can't even hear the thoughts and opinions of their own constituents. I would really like to hear some MODERATE Republicans step up and denounce these "out shout" tactics.

    Hell, I'd like to see a conservative or libertarian on this site denounce those tactics. Or will we be forced to have "free speech zones" a quarter mile away for all protesters, like we did for those protesting President Bush's policies? It was horrible then and it's horrible now.

    Let's have the debate...it's the American thing to do.

    Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 08/10/2009 @ 2:26pm

77. Posted by OneVote at 08/10/2009 @ 2:12pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Posted by YourJomamma at 08/10/2009 @ 2:01pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Thank goodness your buddy ran into an amateur, Jomamma.

    But in the case of Madoff, OV, well, I don't know how that guy thought he was gonna get away with ALL that.

    Posted by schnellerheinz at 08/10/2009 @ 2:29pm

78. If you mean they saw which way the political winds were blowing and moved with them....yes, it has changed.

    Now, the question becomes if "everybody is really a Bernie Sanders liberal"....why did they do that?

    Posted by Mask at 08/10/2009 @ 1:41pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    "Political Winds"....or do you mean "follow the money"? Maybe there is no differentiation in your mind. I see a difference...that difference being power to the people versus power to special interest groups.

    So Obama got elected on "change you can believe in" and "yes we can." When exactly did he publicly disavow himself of these notions, knowing that he could not possibly win with those political headwinds you reference.

    So, when Obama first started out on his road to the presidency, did he sound more like Bernie Sanders, or Bill Clinton?

    Posted by OneVote at 08/10/2009 @ 2:40pm

79. "I never said that I stopped voting for Republicans or Democrats (or petit bourgeious politicians like Bernie Sanders - an independent, not a Dem - and the Greens) because they "ignored my petioning grievances." As should have been crystal clear from my use of the phrase "over the years" I have continued to petition our representatives even though I have not voted for them. Why? Because it can sometimes get results."----Posted by cka2nd at 08/10/2009 @ 1:46pm

    "I've written and called my congressional reps and senators, the White House and sundry other public officials over the years, but I am proud to say that, outside of a few non-partisan school board elections, I haven't voted for a Republican or a Democrat in 25 years."----Posted by cka2nd at 08/10/2009 @ 10:30am

    Why are you "proud to say that", CKA....if it never was on the table???

    And what do you say to that Congressman/woman, if they say "I'll try to get to work on that"...and actually DO something about it...and then ask for your support in the next election?

    "Sorry, I'm a Trotskyite....never voting for your bougeouise ass, you oppressor of the proletariat!"?

    Kinda dampens the mood, huh?

    Posted by Mask at 08/10/2009 @ 2:43pm

80. ""Political Winds"....or do you mean "follow the money"? Maybe there is no differentiation in your mind. I see a difference..."----Posted by OneVote at 08/10/2009 @ 2:40pm

    I see another option, OV...that you don't..or won't.

    That your political views are not the majority view of the American people.

    Does that possibility ever enter in your calculations?

    Posted by Mask at 08/10/2009 @ 2:45pm

81. But in the case of Madoff, OV, well, I don't know how that guy thought he was gonna get away with ALL that.

    Posted by schnellerheinz at 08/10/2009 @ 2:29pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    I am amazed as well. Targeting elderly Jewish "investors" with the notion that he could gain trust because he was Jewish. A particularly diseased sociopath. The Ponzi like scheme of paying out return from the money of new investors while pocketing millions for himself and this crew kept him going, along with complicit governmental oversight (lack of) and friends in high places....remembering that pickpockets often work in groups - one creates the distraction, while the other lifts the wallet..............

    Posted by OneVote at 08/10/2009 @ 2:51pm

82. Does that possibility ever enter in your calculations?

    Posted by Mask at 08/10/2009 @ 2:45pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    You know Maskie, I actually think my views are closer to the "real majority" than yours. You want us think that Disneyland is reality, brought to you by two party system. You are apparently against the encroachment of any viable third party. I understand your preference to remain within the world of pragmatic, but you seem to go well beyond that, and you seem to cheerlead and endorse the notion of the two party monopoly which is failing us.

    Posted by OneVote at 08/10/2009 @ 3:08pm

83. Posted by Mask at 08/10/2009 @ 2:43pm

    I'm proud to say that I haven't voted for a Dem or a Repub in 25 years because that means I've resisted the temptation to engage in lesser evil bourgeios politics, to entrust my vote to the twin (fraternal, not identical) parties of Capital, unlike so many of my fellow leftists, let alone my liberal friends and relatives. And voting for Democrats and Republicans was not always off the table; I voted for both until 1984.

    No elected official I've ever contacted has been crass enough to ask for my future support, and that includes Al D'Amato AND Chuck Schumer! They haven't even inquired as to my previous votes. I've been solicited by both the Dems and the GOP over the years (subscribe to one conservative magazine and buy a little ammo, and the floodgates open!) and chuck 'em both in the recycling bin. So I've still been able to participate in the process of petitioning the government, even if I am a commie pinko red. Ain't the Bill of Rights - including the 2nd Amendment - grand?

    Posted by cka2nd at 08/10/2009 @ 3:35pm

84. Posted by OneVote at 08/10/2009 @ 3:08pm

    Bravo! What Mask also seems incapable of understanding is that the middle of the road is movable, depending on the amount of pressure exerted from the left or the right.

    Posted by cka2nd at 08/10/2009 @ 3:37pm

85. Let us not forget the lessons taught to us by The Simpsons. Remember when Kang and Kodos from Rigel 4 respectively take over as Republican and Democratic candidates? The 3rd party still can't win! (Ross Perot stomps off, fuming)

    Posted by MATTMAN at 08/10/2009 @ 3:39pm

86. Bravo! What Mask also seems incapable of understanding is that the middle of the road is movable, depending on the amount of pressure exerted from the left or the right.

    Posted by cka2nd at 08/10/2009 @ 3:37pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Indeed! And what sailor would launch a ship if "political winds" could not be tacked to a new destinations, and old, including the homeward journey.

    Flat earthers have been proven wrong. They were once "the majority" as I recall.

    Posted by OneVote at 08/10/2009 @ 4:14pm

87. And why will the 2012 Repub nominee after running Hard Right in the primaries..."move Center" for the General Election?

    Posted by Mask at 08/10/2009 @ 1:41pm

    Because most politicians who run for president for either party are "DIRECTED" by their handlers that they must run to the center to be elected rather than run on their personal principles. So they become political cowards.

    Posted by antisocialist at 08/10/2009 @ 4:19pm

88. Ann Coulter certainly has a way with the juxtaposition:

    OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE SPOTTED IN BOGUS MOON LANDING FOOTAGE

    Which party contains 99 percent of the people who believe:

    O.J. is innocent;...

    Sarah Palin's infant child, Trig, was actually the child of her daughter;...

    The spectacularly guilty Mumia Abu-Jamal was framed;

    The Diebold Corp. secretly stole thousands of Kerry votes in 2004;

    Duke lacrosse players gang-raped a stripper;

    Bill Clinton did not have sex with "that woman";...

    John Edwards didn't have an affair with Rielle Hunter;...

    a 2007 Rasmussen poll showed that 35 percent of Democrats believe Bush knew about the 9/11 attacks in advance, while 26 percent aren't sure ...

    Janeane Garofalo, believes Enron's Ken Lay faked his own death...

    How many times has Matthews forced Democratic officeholders to denounce Al Sharpton for the Tawana Brawley hoax?...

    Sharpton has veto power over all Democratic presidential candidates. Even Al Gore, a former vice president of the United States, was required to kiss Sharpton's ring.

    If there ever comes a time when Republican presidential candidates have to get the blessing of the head of the birther movement to run, I'll say: I'm wrong -- Republicans do have as many conspiracy nuts as the Democrats...

    Howard Dean approvingly cited the left-wing lunacy that Saudi Arabia had warned Bush in advance about the 9/11 attacks.

    Rosie O'Donnell ... is a prominent 9/11 "truther." She believes the World Trade Center was blown up with explosives, not taken down by terrorists in airplanes.

    Show me a half-dozen Republican senators attending a birther movie premiere, and I'll pretend to believe that Olbermann went to the Ivy League Cornell.

    Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 08/10/2009 @ 4:33pm

89. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

    People representing a political party who's main constituency is people who are bat-shit crazy shouldn't really draw attention to the fact that the opposing party membership only has 1% that is bat-shit crazy.

    Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 08/10/2009 @ 4:39pm

90. a 2007 Rasmussen poll showed that 35 percent of Democrats believe Bush knew about the 9/11 attacks in advance, while 26 percent aren't sure ...

    ************************************************************

    Holy fuck!

    51% of Democrats think Bush is metally retarded, but somehow managed to uncover the most spectacular terrorist attact in US history (all on his own because if others knew, they would go to the media), but Bush did nothing to stop it so that this retarded, diabolical genius could build a pipeline in Afghanistan.

    51% are bat-shit crazy.

    Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 08/10/2009 @ 4:49pm

91. Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 08/10/2009 @ 4:49pm

    No we're never gonna survive unless we get a little bat-shit crazy.

    Posted by MATTMAN at 08/10/2009 @ 5:03pm

92. Posted by MATTMAN at 08/10/2009 @ 5:03pm |

    You know Seal is going to sue you over that and/or have his amazon wife kick your ass....in German!

    Posted by snowball777 at 08/10/2009 @ 5:20pm

93. I've said before that this is a mistake, but I've never claimed that my position represents the majority of opinion on the far left. Posted by cka2nd at 08/10/2009 @ 1:46pm |

    I've never heard a good explanation of how we can externally create the necessary critical mass to start up a _viable_ 3rd party option, but I also never expected to see Obama (re)taking the oath of office either.

    For me, the crux of the problem is campaign finance reform, which you'll never see without inside help, much less from the outside, with no help.

    But until then, money will flow to the two parties and to hell with the actual votes.

    So, cka2nd, here's your shot: convince me why I should send my vote to 'other', next time around.

    Posted by snowball777 at 08/10/2009 @ 5:33pm

94. Which party contains 99 percent of the people who believe:

    The earth is 6000 years old.

    Global warming is a hoax.

    Social Security should be put into the stock market.

    Evolution is "just" a theory.

    Trickle down economics works.

    We should question our presidents under oath about their sex lives.

    Abstinance only education is effective.

    There is such a thing as the liberal media.

    The war in Iraq had something to do with terrorists.

    Dick Cheney is not evil.

    Al Sharpton has veto power for democratic presidential nominees. (WTF?)

    Obama is a racist.

    Larry Craig was not looking for man love in the airport restroom.

    Socialized Healthcare will destroy America.

    Corporations have the best interests of Americans at heart and never lie.

    --Darin neither party has a monopoly on Bat Shit Crazy...

    Posted by Extraneous at 08/10/2009 @ 6:02pm

95. Posted by Extraneous at 08/10/2009 @ 6:02pm

    Nicelely done, sir.

    Posted by Malcontent at 08/10/2009 @ 9:14pm

96. " Oh Maskie....come on........you are better than this."

    Posted by OneVote at 08/10/2009 @ 11:45am

    No, he's not.

    He wouldn't be our mask, if he was. Who wants a strange mask?

    ...took long enough to learn to tolerate the one we' got now.

    Posted by Malcontent at 08/10/2009 @ 9:15pm

97. Mr. Nichols, Wish I could hear your view on something. That is why would the White House cave on this and extract nothing on the MSM hate media front? In other words, why are birthers given a name at all? Why not leave them on same rung with Area 51'rs and 2012'rs and lost City of Atlantis'rs - ditto for all the coded racist, xenophobic, baseless bologna?

    Posted by winyahn at 08/10/2009 @ 9:27pm

98. Rasmussen / Fox tricks:

    Poll question: "Did Bush Know About the 9/11 Attacks in Advance?"

    interpreted by some democratic Americans as such:

    1) 9/11 occurred on September 11

    2) August 6, 2001 fell 'in Advance' of 'the 9/11 Attacks'

    3) On August 6, 2001, if W was awake that day he read /was read a memo entitled "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US"... stating "FBI information since that time [1998] indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York."

    Posted by winyahn at 08/10/2009 @ 10:11pm

99. "You know Maskie, I actually think my views are closer to the "real majority" than yours."----Posted by OneVote at 08/10/2009 @ 3:08pm

    Yet, yours never is voted into power, is it?

    Ohhhhhhhh, but there's an excuse....I mean "reason"...."corporate domination of our system"....right?

    Never..."I'm in the minority"

    Posted by Mask at 08/10/2009 @ 10:17pm

100. obama set out from the start to be this coward that he is. He never had any intention of honoring his HOPE bullshit slogan and transparency in government. What he is doing by allowing Holder to ignore the crimes that bush/cheney committed, is a crime itself. obama should not be reelected. Lets elect an intelligent, courageous leader to get America back on track. Someone who has guts!!!

     Posted by Tiger2Lover at 08/11/2009 @ 03:27am

101. a 2007 Rasmussen poll showed that 35 percent of Democrats believe Bush knew about the 9/11 attacks in advance, while 26 percent aren't sure ...

     ************************************************************

     Holy fuck!

     51% of Democrats think Bush is metally retarded, but somehow managed to uncover the most spectacular terrorist attact in US history

     Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 08/10/2009 @ 4:49pm

     *****************************

     Holy Fuck! I can't even add in my head any more. That should be 61%.

     Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 08/11/2009 @ 07:57am

102. Posted by Extraneous at 08/10/2009 @ 6:02pm

     This leads to three posts. Consider the following two statements:

     95% of Communists vote Democrat (True)

     95% of Democrats are Communists (NOT True)

     The only point here is that the order is of spectacular importance. Just because one is true doesn't make the reverse true.

     95% of Truthers are Decmocrats (True)

     35% - 61% of Democrats are Truthers (True)

     The order makes a big difference.

     Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 08/11/2009 @ 07:58am

103. Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 08/11/2009 @ 07:57am

     28% of Republicans don't believe Obama is a citizen....30% are "not sure".

     Meanwhile of ALL Americans 77% believe he is...11% do not...12% are unsure.

     http://politicalwire.com/archives/2009/07/31/ fewer_than_half_of_republicans_think_obama_is_a_citizen.html

     So....58% of Republicans seem to comprise 23% of America.

     Your Road to Resurrection is ready for re-paving...maybe you need some "Porkulus" money?

     Posted by Mask at 08/11/2009 @ 08:03am

104. Ohhhhhhhh, but there's an excuse....I mean "reason"...."corporate domination of our system"....right?

     Never..."I'm in the minority"

     Posted by Mask at 08/10/2009 @ 10:17pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     Stalin said it best.........paraphrasing.....

     'it is not who votes that counts, it is who counts the votes that counts'

     Don't ask me to buy into your illusion (or deception) Maskie.

     Posted by OneVote at 08/11/2009 @ 09:23am

105. " Oh Maskie....come on........you are better than this."

     Posted by OneVote at 08/10/2009 @ 11:45am

     No, he's not.

     He wouldn't be our mask, if he was. Who wants a strange mask?

     ...took long enough to learn to tolerate the one we' got now.

     Posted by Malcontent at 08/10/2009 @ 9:15pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     Not to worry Mal....pig headed incorrigibility is what he will take to his grave.

     Posted by OneVote at 08/11/2009 @ 09:25am

106. "Don't ask me to buy into your illusion (or deception) Maskie."---Posted by OneVote at 08/11/2009 @ 09:23am

     Yes, OV, it's obviously my illusion that...

     you do not represent the majority viewpoint in this country.

     Gotta be a conspiracy of the Corporate Masters.

     Posted by Mask at 08/11/2009 @ 09:28am

107. My proposal is a good stiff drink. After all, who needs health reform when we can self-medicate....

     Posted by Dwight Wall at 08/09/2009 @ 2:19pm

     "Hear, Hear!"

     Posted by chaoszen at 08/11/2009 @ 09:43am

108. Posted by Extraneous at 08/10/2009 @ 6:02pm |

     Look at Coulter's lists: OJ innocent; Palin's Son Tryg; Abu Jamal framed; Duke Lacrosse rape; Tawana Brawley hoax; Lay's faked death; Truthers. All of these are specific conspiracy theories. The List you provide is not specific, but a collection of exaggerations and distortions and predictions that cannot be true or false. For example:

     Only 1% of Reps believe global warming is a hoax. ~66% of Reps believe global warming computer models are wrong and the scientists predicting that Human produced CO2 is the culprit and will continue to CAUSE more global warming are wrong as well. (Granted, the word "hoax" may be used promiscuously as red meat to the base to reinforce the bigoted notion that Libs are trying to control their lives by lying their way into power. This is was Savan was doing last week with her unsubstantiated claims of "recent, overt, racist rhetoric" in an attemt to reinforce bigoted notions that all Republicans are racists.)

     Social Security should be put into the stock market. (This is an opinion regarding the future: It can't be true or false, it is a judgement call.)

     Evolution is "just" a theory. (At one time, Neil Bohr's indivisable electron, protron and Nutron model was "just" a theory. Today we know it is wrong. Protons and elections and Neutrons are divisiable. That is called science. I am confident that the science around evolution will continue as well. The current theory is that evolution is the product of "random" mutations and natural selection. I am more of a subscriber to Neo-Darwinism where the mutations are not random, but are caused by changes in the environment and some process we do not yet understand produces mutations that are more suitable to survival.

     Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 08/11/2009 @ 10:04am

109. Trickle down economics works. (It works great for rich people.)

     Abstinance only education is effective. (It is effective for a small number of people.)

     We should question our presidents under oath about their sex lives. (95% of Reps and Dems believe the President is not above the law. When the President is the target of a legitimate sexual harrassment civil suit, these 95% believe the President should be deposed under oath regarding the facts of the case.)

     There is such a thing as the liberal media. (This is idiotic. Yes, the MSM is pro-corporate; They are also pro-Obama, pro-abortion, pro-global warmings is beyond discussion, pro-higher taxes, pro-big government. One out of six does not prove the MSM is not liberal.)

     Dick Cheney is not evil. (opinion, not true or false.)

     Larry Craig was not looking for man love in the airport restroom. (No one believes that. Not even his wife. Not even strawmen believe this. Reps did everything they could to force him out of the Senate. Unfortunately, there wasn't anything they could do.)

     95% of "The earth is 6000 years old" vote Republican (1% of Republicans believe the world is 6000 years old.)

     The war in Iraq had something to do with terrorists. ("In Maskian fashion I can state with confidence that the Iraq war had "something" to do with terrorists.)

     Al Sharpton has veto power for democratic presidential nominees. (WTF? Someone accused Gore of having a "low negro tolerance". Gore ran off to NYC to kiss Sharpton's ring. If Sharpton had vetoed Gore he would have been unelectable.)

     Obama is a racist. (A "racist" holds prejudicial opinions regarding people depending upon thier race. President Obama supported Justice Sotomayer who believes that a "wise Latina" will make a better justice than a white male becau

     Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 08/11/2009 @ 10:05am

110. Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 08/11/2009 @ 10:04am

     I just find it interesting that Ann Coulter says that 23% of the Republican Party are dupes of MSNBC, the "Liberal Media".

     If so, Dems in much better shape than I thought, given nearly a quarter of the GOP is puppet fodder.

     Posted by Mask at 08/11/2009 @ 10:30am

111. Yes, OV, it's obviously my illusion that...

     you do not represent the majority viewpoint in this country.

     Gotta be a conspiracy of the Corporate Masters.

     Posted by Mask at 08/11/2009 @ 09:28am | ignore this person | warn this person

     Care to interject any facts into your argument there old boy....

     September 26, 2008

     Public Divided on Need for Third Party Republicans, Democrats think major parties adequately represent Americans by Jeffrey M. Jones

     PRINCETON, NJ -- Americans divide evenly in a recent Gallup Poll on whether the two major political parties are adequately representing the public, or whether a third party is needed. That represents a shift from 2007, when a majority said the Democrats and Republicans were doing "such a poor job that a third major party is needed."

     Gallup has asked this question since 2003, and over that time, the public's views on this matter have not been consistent. The first time it was asked, in October 2003, a majority opposed the idea of a third major party. Two separate polls from last year showed most Americans in favor of another party. This year's results are similar to what Gallup found in September 2006.

     Not surprisingly, political independents are most likely to favor the emergence of a third major party, with 63% holding this view. In contrast, a majority of Democrats (56%) and Republicans (55%) think the two major parties are doing an adequate job and thus there is no need for another party that can compete with them.'

     Now what majority are you talking about?

     Democratic Party faithful?

     Posted by OneVote at 08/11/2009 @ 10:46am

112. Posted by snowball777 at 08/10/2009 @ 5:33pm

     Remember, it's not just the Democratic and Republican parties that I don't vote for. I also don't vote for Greens or anyone else not running on an explicitly socialist platform, so I might not be the best person to make the case for voting for a third party for you, since we probably have different standards for said third party.

     I could vote for a Labor Party if it grew out of a fighting and expanding labor movement and I could see it moving in a revolutionary direction. But the labor and social democratic parties in Europe are only marginally better than our bourgeois Democratic Party, so I wouldn't vote for them, either.

     Fundamentally, the working class must be politically independent of the bourgeoisie, big and small. It can't be tied into supporting supposed friends who nine times out of ten end up stabbing them in the back on issues big and small because they, the working class' so-called "friends," are fundamentally committed to the survival and expansion of capitalism.

     Posted by cka2nd at 08/11/2009 @ 11:08am

113. There is such a thing as the liberal media. (This is idiotic. Yes, the MSM is pro-corporate; They are also pro-Obama, pro-abortion, pro-global warmings is beyond discussion, pro-higher taxes, pro-big government. One out of six does not prove the MSM is not liberal.)

     Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 08/11/2009 @ 10:05am

     Quite contradictory there Darin. MSM is pure corporate. Therefore they don't care about abortion. They would be in the camp of global warming is a hoax, except they don't want everyone to think they are bat shit crazy. They don't care about taxes unless it is corporate taxes, they are not pro-big government. As more goverment means more regulation/oversight of their activities. I see no reason why they would be pro-Obama. He may have recieved more coverage, but it was because his ratings were better. He was better for their bottom line.

     Darin, that is the root of it all. Bottomline. The reps scream and complain everytime they don't get the coverage they want. But if the dems do it, people just scoff. Why? Because the lie that is liberal media has been perpetuated for so long, it is starting to be believed. There is no liberal bias in the MSM it a purely corporate bias.

     Posted by Extraneous at 08/11/2009 @ 11:16am

114. Posted by snowball777 at 08/10/2009 @ 5:33pm

     I can say that some petit-bourgeois parties that I do not support practice a so-called "inside/outside" strategy vis-a-vis the big parties. Libertarians or Greens may be registered in the GOP or the DP, respectively, so that they can "make their vote count" but also build the better mousetrap at the same time.

     Voting for candidates and parties that generally and consistently favor corporate power and greed over the masses does not strike me as making one's vote count, even if one occasionally gets a better result from one side than the other (for someone of a liberal or lefty persuasion, remember that it's not always the Dems who come through, or else we wouldn't have had Earl Warren, William Brennan, Harry Blackmun or David Souter on the Supreme Court, or an Americans with Disabilities Act).

     Also, I live in New York State, and we're one of the few states that allow fusion, i.e., more than one party to list the same nominee for a particular office. Fusion has allowed third parties like the Conservative, Liberal, Independence and Working Families parties to maintain themselves on the ballot for years. Doing so allows them to exert a certain amount of pressure on the major parties, pulling them either right (Conservative, Independence and, in the 80's & 90's, Liberal) or left (Working Familiers and the pre-80's Libs).

     Parties like the Greens and Libertarians that want to really get their message out and build themselves up to one day challenge the Dems and GOP, use fusion less (some states or localities more than others), so they find it harder to stay on the ballot.

     Posted by cka2nd at 08/11/2009 @ 11:20am

115. Obama is a racist. (A "racist" holds prejudicial opinions regarding people depending upon thier race. President Obama supported Justice Sotomayer who believes that a "wise Latina" will make a better justice than a white male becau

     Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 08/11/2009 @ 10:05am

     Now that is a illogical argument. We need to be careful about who we are calling bat shit crazy.

     If A=B and C supports A then C must also = B?

     Obama is not a racist. If Sotomayor is a racist (a big if) support of Sotomayor does not make one a racist. I support Sotomayor. Does that make me a racist?

     First off I disagree with your definition of racist. A racist is someone who believes one race to be superior to another.

     http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism

     Her comment was racist. I agree. However the speech of hers that I read, as context does matter. She was referring to decisions regarding discrimination. Not just all decisions. Nevertheless, it was still a bad comment and if a white male had said the same he would have been tarred and feathered and treated as if he had the plague.

     However, one sentence in a speech she repeated to several audiences, does not make her a racist. Futhermore and more to the point. It does not make Obama a racist. Really, anyone who truely believes Obama is a racist is just bat shit crazy.

     Posted by Extraneous at 08/11/2009 @ 11:32am

116. WHAT DO SEMI-LITERATE RIGHTWING LOW-LIFES DO WHEN THEY ARE NOT GOING APESHIT IN TOWN HALL INTIFADAS OR SPROUTING MAN BOOBS??? Read on for an answer...

     "No one mention [SIC] race except... You." --YourJomamma, 08/07

     Before we get YJ's sick, diseased in the head version of race & demographics from February (see below) let us also recall that what made him boo-hoo so hard on 8/7 was that he was told that he was obssessed with other people: their skin, their looks, their beliefs, their confessional status, etc.

     I held up a mirror to him. And guess what? YJ went apeshit over what he saw. But it's true. Recall that 2.5 years ago YJ was having a repeated, ugly shitfit about how when he was elected MC, K-Ellison had to "prove", over & again, his loyalty to...the likes of YJ!!!

     YJ's "KAMPF": They "enter the country or live there and breed like crazy...Europe is hitting 25% Islamic soon, and US is hitting 35% Hispanic..PLUS they are draining the social system of cash and resources...plus being illiterate in their own language, the added pressure of the host country to "help" them is over bearing....add to this the fact that the liberals in the host country actually sue in court to give the invaders(un resticted and illegal immigrants) more rights than the host citizens, like push 1 for English and native language voting ballots, in state tuition...it won't take long and the Israelis will be voted out of their own country..legaly... learn from the Muslims in Europe and the Mexicans in the US how to invaded, destroy and take over a more sophisticated and wealthy society using their own wealth, productivity, generosity, and the local liberals against the locals in their own country, combined with the gigantic birth rates...victory with out a shot being fired.."

     Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 08/11/2009 @ 11:34am

117. MSM is pure corporate. Therefore they don't care about abortion. They would be in the camp of global warming is a hoax, except they don't want everyone to think they are bat shit crazy. They don't care about taxes unless it is corporate taxes, they are not pro-big government. As more goverment means more regulation/oversight of their activities. I see no reason why they would be pro-Obama. He may have recieved more coverage, but it was because his ratings were better. He was better for their bottom line.

     LOL-sure.

     We can all imagine Katie Couric, Harry Smith, Charlie Gibson, Matt Lauer, Meredith Vieira, Andrea Mitchell, Chris Matthews, David Shuster, Chuck Todd, Diane Sawyer, Dan Rather, Brian Williams, and the like all voting Republican-ever.

     These are all admitted liberals.

     Posted by antisocialist at 08/11/2009 @ 11:49am

118. Now that is a illogical argument... If A=B and C supports A then C must also = B?

     Obama is not a racist. If Sotomayor is a racist (a big if) support of Sotomayor does not make one a racist. I support Sotomayor. Does that make me a racist?

     Posted by Extraneous at 08/11/2009 @ 11:32am

     No question you are correct here. Logically, support for Sotomayer doesn't make one a racist because she said something racist.

     However, you were quoting someone (Beck? Rush) who specifically called President Obama a racist and it was directly linked to Justice Sotomayer's comments (Or Obama's comments on them). The political game is to connect the politician to the racists statemens of others. It is within this context that my remarks are correct.

     Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 08/11/2009 @ 12:09pm

119. Posted by Mask at 08/11/2009 @ 09:28am | ignore this person | warn this person

     Turn on the kitchen light, and watch the coakroaches run for cover.

     Maskie......where are you??

     Posted by OneVote at 08/11/2009 @ 12:11pm

120. Posted by OneVote at 08/11/2009 @ 12:11pm

     Sorry, OV...forgot as Spokesperson for the True Majority....I must remain at your beckon call at all times....apologies.

     So, how does "the majority of people want a third party" translate into "the majority of people are leftists of the OneVote model"?!??!?!?!

     And why don't they turn out for Ralph Nader then???

     Posted by Mask at 08/11/2009 @ 12:26pm

121. These are all admitted liberals.

     Posted by antisocialist at 08/11/2009 @ 11:49am

     Really? Please provide a source for that claim. As I think it is propaganda.

     But even if they were, they don't create the news, or the stories, they are the puppets who read the teleprompters and follow the script given to them by their corporate masters.

     Posted by Extraneous at 08/11/2009 @ 12:33pm

122. Sorry, OV...forgot as Spokesperson for the True Majority....I must remain at your beckon call at all times....apologies

     Posted by Mask at 08/11/2009 @ 12:26pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     Apology accepted of course. But now you owe me another one.

     Wasn't it your contention that the MAJORITY of people don't want a third party? This was the issue wasn't it?

     Posted by OneVote at 08/11/2009 @ 2:34pm

123. There is no liberal bias in the MSM it a purely corporate bias.

     Posted by Extraneous at 08/11/2009 @ 11:16am

     You are wasting your talent here.....you belong in Magic's inner circle, making the Kool-aid!

     Posted by Happy at 08/11/2009 @ 7:06pm

124. Does it really surprise anyone. Bama the power monger.

     Posted by apoorspic at 08/11/2009 @ 9:06pm

125. tell me besided destroying whats left of out currency, economy with spending that went to his supporters but was called "stimulus"......

     whats changed? Iraq?

     Afganistran?

     deficit spending?

     Transparency?

     Partriot Act?

     Come on man WAKE UP!!! And whip the koolaid off your chin and the brown shit off your nose...

     How about you taking out Busheney shit of your mouth and hands? I can speak dirty back.

     Bush left our currency this way. When he let the banks rally all this housing thing on the American people, get the money and sell the debt to the whole world without any controls? That's your dream capitalism, idiot. Yes, this government is so much more transparent, yes we have a plan and are going out of the mess of Iraq, that your daddy Cheney left, yes we are going to do something reasonable in Afghan not necessarily only with arms but dialogue..... But fundamentally, this guy is for the people, not for the oil companies, not for the defense companies, not for sending our soldiers without protection....if you are a political daltonic that's your problem.....and this is the guy that has undertaken Health Care reform that all those Reps "rich men shoe shining" would never do. Yes, the "Bush legacy" will be hard to erase, but we will overcome....and you go to your stupid right blogs where they shoe shine the banks, the HMOs, and the polluters....

     Posted by Frank42 at 08/11/2009 @ 11:57pm

126. Posted by Happy at 08/11/2009 @ 7:06pm

     Typical ideologue response. When faced with truths that don't mesh with their chosen beliefs, instead of responding with reason, they just attack the messenger. Lame.

     Posted by Extraneous at 08/12/2009 @ 11:33am