Senator Al Franken

posted by John Nichols on 06/30/2009 @ 5:43pm

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The last legal and political barriers to Al Franken taking his seat as the junion senator from Minnesota crumbled Tuesday, as Republican incumbent Norm Coleman finally conceded the contest.

Coleman's concession came after the Minnesota Supreme Court confirmed what everyone pretty much knew: The voters chose Franken, the Democratic Farmer Labor Party candidate over Coleman in last fall's U.S. Senate election.

While the election result was close, the court's decision was not.

The justices ruled 5-0 that: "Al Franken received the highest number of votes legally cast and is entitled [under Minnesota law] to receive the certificate of election as United States Senator from the State of Minnesota."

Under Minnesota law, the court's decision gave Franken the right to occupy the seat that a series of recounts and official reviews confirmed was won by the satirist with a narrow but steady margin that ultimately expanded to 312 votes.

The unanimous ruling left little wiggle room for Coleman, whose dead-ender appeals have been funded by Republican donors from around the country as well as stipends from the campaign funds of sitting GOP senators.

And Coleman threw in the towel with a relatively gracious statement less than an hour after the court made its decision known.

Minnesota Republican Governor Tim Pawlenty, who has delayed signing the certification of election that Franken needed to become the 60th Democratic member of the current Senate, has said he will certify Franken as the winner.

So it is that, by the time the Senate returns from its July 4 recess, Democrats will have a caucus that includes 58 party members and two independents (Vermont's Bernie Sanders and Connecticut's Joe Lieberman) who sit with the majority.

That's the "magic" 60 that allows a majority party to avert filibusters and schedule votes on legislation and nominations.

With Republicans sticking to their "party of no" strategy -- and maintaining remarkable unity in their negativity -- the seating of Franken will have significance. It won't mean that the majority party can have its way with the Senate, as there will continue to be cases where individual Democrats break ranks. But it does mean that the will of the American electorate -- which voted overwhelmingly in the last two election cycles for a Democratic Congress -- will be more difficult for Rush Limbaugh's rejectionists to thwart.

But Franken eschewed the emphasis on the number "60."

"I know there's been a lot of talk about the fact that when I'm sworn in I'll be the sixtieth member of the Democratic caucus. But that's not how I see it," the senator-elect said Tuesday. "I'm going to Washington to be the second senator from the State of Minnesota, and that's how I'm going to do this job."

Comments (167)

about goddam time!!!

congrats, al. consider challenging obama in 12. you won't win, but are probably the only guy who could run a protest campaign against the guy without committing political suicide, become a voice for those concerned about mr. obama's direction...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 06/30/2009 @ 2:48pm
Will this cause rejoicing among Dems on the Hill & in the White House?

Maybe not so much, as it deprives them of the fillibuster excuse for behaving in ways other than they promised in the '08 campaign. Kind of puts the Dems on the spot. Good thing it's summer & they'll be taking off soon. Hiding out. Listening to the lobbyists for instructions on what to do next. Hands extended.

Posted by sloper at 06/30/2009 @ 2:49pm
Why not...I mean after all, we already suffer with a bunch of socialist leeches and miscreants; why not add a tax dodging failed comedian.

Posted by antisocialist at 06/30/2009 @ 2:51pm
Posted by antisocialist at 06/30/2009 @ 2:51pm | ignore this person | warn this person

socialist leaches? how bout them satano-aynrando parasites who think themselves gods?

failed comedian? hardly! (although most pols are ultimately failed comedians...lol...)

Posted by ibbleblibble at 06/30/2009 @ 2:54pm
failed comedian? hardly! (although most pols are ultimately failed comedians...lol...)

Posted by ibbleblibble at 06/30/2009 @ 2:54pm

Ibb,

You can't possibly think this guy was ever a good or successful comedian?

Posted by antisocialist at 06/30/2009 @ 2:56pm
It's somewhat ironic. In his book, Franken fantasized about being elected senator in a Democrat landslide and being seated on Jan 3, 2009, so that the newly elected Dems had 17 day to impeach and convict Bush and Cheney.

Well he was elected Senator in a Democrat landslide, but the idea of impeachment is a hysterical joke.

The impeachment of Bush and Cheney was about as close as Franken got to being seated Jan 3.

Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 06/30/2009 @ 2:58pm
I'd rather have a whole Congress of failed comedians (not that I agree with you on that point), than a bunch of hypocritical, philandering, right wing bigots who profess to love god, only to lie through their teeth again and again and again and put the public's well being BEHIND that of their big-wig, corporatist shills, who are ALSO right wing philandering, hypocritical bigots.

Oh...and Joe Lieberman.

Congrats to the People of Minnesota for finally getting what you voted for back in November! And for Norm...have you NO shame?

Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 06/30/2009 @ 3:06pm
Posted by antisocialist at 06/30/2009 @ 2:56pm | ignore this person | warn this person

well first of all he was more a comic WRITER than comedian, and yes...i think he was hilarious. not as much now since he's mr. senator man and all, but i'm looking forward to his commentary as a senator now. might check out c-span more...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 06/30/2009 @ 3:09pm
Ibb,

You can't possibly think this guy was ever a good or successful comedian?

Posted by antisocialist at 06/30/2009 @ 2:56pm

Ok, as a standup he was par at best. However, as a writer for SNL he was Brilliant! His 3 Emmys prove it. Anti, to say he was not ever good or successful as a comedian is just ridiculous. You don't have to perform to be a comedian.

Posted by Extraneous at 06/30/2009 @ 3:17pm
Damn, I was hopin' this farce of an election, this mini-me of 2000 would last so long Franken's term would be up already!

Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 06/30/2009 @ 3:22pm
I certainly hope that when Governor Pawlenty goes to sign this "certificate of election" that he accidently spills his coffee all over it, and that the certificate has to be drawn up all over again.

And then I hope that if Governor Pawlenty does not now smoke (and fewer and fewer people do), that he take up smoking and light a cigarette before he goes to sign this "certificate of election", and then somehow this certificate accidently catches fire, and thus a new certificate has to be drawn up all over again.

And then I hope that if Governor Pawlenty and his family do not own a dog, that they get one and that the Governor brings the pet into his office, and then as the Governor goes to sign this "certificate of election" the dog takes a liking to the certificate and snatches it up and chews it all up.

Maybe then something good would happen. It is libs who all the time advocate we give up when we are fighting war against those who want to kill us, maybe after the coffee and the fire and the dog libs would revert back to the natural lib instinct and give up and forget about Franken in the Senate.

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 3:27pm
Anti, to say he was not ever good or successful as a comedian is just ridiculous. You don't have to perform to be a comedian.

Posted by Extraneous at 06/30/2009 @ 3:17pm

Actually you do have to perform or you are not a comedian..otherwise if he just writes the material, he is a writer, not a comedian.

Posted by antisocialist at 06/30/2009 @ 3:28pm
IMPORTANT UPDATE.....

I am trying, I really am.....

I have emailed Governor Pawlenty with my suggestion......one can only hope that he will follow through....

Wouldn't that be a big disappointment to libs if they thought Franken was finally in the Senate, but then Governor Pawlenty's dog had different ideas!!

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 3:44pm
As far as the magic 60 number...

It just does not matter. There are plenty of democrats who will vote how they see best, or how they are lobbied too, that it just wont' matter.

Unlike republicans who more often than not walk lock-step with each other. As evident recently by some bills recieving no, zero, none republican votes. Democrats are just too mixed and disorganized for that ever to happen.

Posted by Extraneous at 06/30/2009 @ 3:48pm
As far as the magic 60 number...

Posted by Extraneous at 06/30/2009 @ 3:48pm

I thought Specter's defection put them at 60. Does anyone remember that?

Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 06/30/2009 @ 3:55pm
Extraneous,

You say Republicans walk "lock step" with each other.

Often, that or similar sentiments seem to be expressed on this website.

But that flies in the face of reality. Look how Conservatives took issue with President Bush when he nominated Harriet Miers for the Supreme Court.

And on the other side of the equation, look how some Republicans such as John McCain and now Colin Powell seem to think accomodation with Democrats is more important than promoting Conservative principles.

The biggest barrier that next-President Palin will face (and she will overcome it) as she heads towards the Presidency will be from the "moderate" wing of the Republican party, who will oppose her.

I read a book by Joe Scarborough, who had been in Congress during the Contract With America, in which he condemned excessive government spending......and most of the book was not venting at Democrats, but at fellow Republicans such as Newt Gingrich himself, who Mr. Scarborough believed had lost their way, in the wrong way, regarding spending and other Conservative principles.

Republicans/Conservatives are not at all a united front, yet from time to time someone on this site will contend that they are.

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 4:01pm
The 3rd ring is now complete...

Our entire govt is a certified circus...

unbelievable...absolutely chaos..and Franken won with double counts and no paper back ups..and no 2 counties had the same compliance for ballot counting.

Perfect Dem system.

And I am really planing an exit.

Posted by YourJomamma at 06/30/2009 @ 4:25pm
And I am really planing an exit.

Posted by YourJomamma at 06/30/2009 @ 4:25pm

Buh bye!

Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 06/30/2009 @ 4:30pm
I am greatly astonished that "The Nation" totally overlooks the fact that Senators Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd are seriously ill, have already missed several sessions of the Senate, and must be hauled into the chamber for voting. Currently the Governors of Massachusetts and Virginia are both Democrats. There will be gubernatorial elections in Virginia this coming November and in Massachusetts next year. Those who are ecstatic about Franken's election (I am not) because of the "60 Democratic votes" ought to demand that Kennedy and Byrd resign immediately while they can still be replaced by Democratic Senators. After the elections in Virginia and Massachusetts that might no longer be possible.

Posted by DieterHeymann at 06/30/2009 @ 4:34pm
Posted by antisocialist at 06/30/2009 @ 2:51pm

I know, so terrible. It makes you start looking back on those heady times when we had the unitary executive deciding to torture our collective pocketbooks to fund a war in Iraq and a rubber stamp Congress that let El Presidente get away with it. I think Bush is starting to look like Ronald Reagan already.

Posted by antisocialist at 06/30/2009 @ 2:56pm

He is as much a comedian as Dennis Miller. The fact that he was a writer during SNL's glory days has to count for something too.

Posted by antisocialist at 06/30/2009 @ 3:28pm

You've heard of Stuart Smalley? Never my cup of tea but anyone that clowns on the self-help industry cannot be all bad.

Posted by srjenkins at 06/30/2009 @ 4:35pm
In early 2003 I sent postcards to all 100 senators, expressing my opposition to the War on Iraq. Sen. Coleman was one of only FOUR that responded in writing. He claimed to actually feeling "threatened" by the Saddam Hussein regime at the time.

Posted by missionunaccomplished at 06/30/2009 @ 4:38pm
I thought Specter's defection put them at 60. Does anyone remember that?

Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 06/30/2009 @ 3:55pm

you guys spend so much time fighting over replub versus dimocrats,

when it's really them versus you.

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 4:41pm
Actually you do have to perform or you are not a comedian..otherwise if he just writes the material, he is a writer, not a comedian.

Posted by antisocialist at 06/30/2009 @ 3:28pm

Actually you do have to perform or you are not a prophet..otherwise if he just writes the material, he is a writer, not a prophet.

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 4:42pm
Maybe then something good would happen. It is libs who all the time advocate we give up when we are fighting war against those who want to kill us, maybe after the coffee and the fire and the dog libs would revert back to the natural lib instinct and give up and forget about Franken in the Senate.

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 3:27pm

Could you stop posting stupid bigoted comments like this? You immediately after this post complain about democrats make stereotyping comments about you. Are you THAT hypocritical?

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 4:44pm
The biggest barrier that next-President Palin will face (and she will shoot it from a helicopter) as she heads towards the Presidency will be from the "tissue" between her ears, which will betray her.

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 4:01pm

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 4:46pm
I read a book by Joe Scarborough

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 4:01pm

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 4:46pm
I read a book by Joe Scarborough

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 4:01pm

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 4:46pm
I read a book by Joe Scarborough

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 4:01pm

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 4:47pm
I read a book by Joe Scarborough

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 4:01pm

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 4:47pm
I read a book by Joe Scarborough

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 4:01pm

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 4:47pm
And I am really planing an exit.

Posted by YourJomamma at 06/30/2009 @ 4:25pm

watch out for splinters.

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 4:48pm
ought to demand that Kennedy and Byrd resign immediately while they can still be replaced by Democratic Senators. After the elections in Virginia and Massachusetts that might no longer be possible.

Posted by DieterHeymann at 06/30/2009 @ 4:34pm

spoken like the true voice of democracy!

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 4:50pm
I know, so terrible. It makes you start looking back on those heady times when we had the unitary executive deciding to torture our collective pocketbooks to fund a war in Iraq and a rubber stamp Congress that let El Presidente get away with it. I think Bush is starting to look like Ronald Reagan already.

Posted by srjenkins at 06/30/2009 @ 4:35pm

now you've got a unitary fedsuary deciding to goldmansacharize your wallet.

BERNANKE/GEITHNER '12

Let's Be Frank, America!

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 4:54pm
Those who are ecstatic about Franken's election (I am not) because of the "60 Democratic votes" ought to demand that Kennedy and Byrd resign immediately while they can still be replaced by Democratic Senators. After the elections in Virginia and Massachusetts that might no longer be possible.

Posted by DieterHeymann at 06/30/2009 @ 4:34pm

That would be unpleasant....I wouldn't wish for the Dems to lose their "60 Democratic votes". Yes, I agree w/you, Kennedy and Byrd should step down ASAP!

Posted by Happy at 06/30/2009 @ 4:54pm
Type your message here (Characters left: 1800)

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 4:55pm
Cccomfo1,

Go check the other blog (the one about health care) where I just took you to the woodshed for being hypocritical.

I am engaging in humor. It is not your place to determine whether that belongs on this website or not. Who appointed you the traffic cop of the Internet?

Exactly how is my comment "bigoted"....enlighten me on that one...are you going to try and convince me or anybody else that some libs do not favor pacifism and "peace" (at the expense of life and liberty)?

The Village Idiot Franken will probably be going to the Senate now. What am I supposed to say?

I noted in the article above, and this was also reported in the public domain, that his margin expanded over the time of the recount.

But there were plenty of articles that the circumstances behind the "expansion" were quite fishy.

My opinion is that what goes around comes around, and if Franken does go to the Senate, he should always be referred to as an illegitmate Senator who was "anointed" by the Minnesota Supreme Court during an election that was stolen. No Republican should ever back off of that position for the sake of "comity of the Senate" or to "recognize the will of the people" or "for the good of the country" etc.... because I truly believe the best thing for the country is for this to be payback time......for the public to be constantly reminded when the subject of Franken comes up that his presence in the Senate is suspect.

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 4:58pm
bonk!

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 5:00pm
Maybe Franken will bring up Sinclair Lewis as he eulogizes the yojos & antis from the Senate floor after they flee the terrible persecution leveled at themselves from the monolithic American left.

"Small busy men" with "cash- register minds" should find ample room for their talents on tropical islands. Do they like "hundred percent Americans & go-getters" in the Caribbean?

Better try the Bay Islands off the coast of Honduras. Best to work on a fake English accent though. Some of these people are reportedly waiting for the return of the Brits. & a return to the buccaneer past. Stay drunk or you'll be quickly recognized as 'fundies.'

Posted by Sorelish at 06/30/2009 @ 5:22pm
He can't be any worse of an embarrasment than Coleman. How long will it be before he drops the anti-war veil and becomes another democrat cheerleader.

Posted by liberty4all at 06/30/2009 @ 5:36pm
"Go check the other blog (the one about health care) where I just took you to the woodshed for being hypocritical. "

I didn't see any woodshed but ok. It's me being hypocritical because I call you out for comments like this, "It is libs who all the time advocate we give up when we are fighting war against those who want to kill us, maybe after the coffee and the fire and the dog libs would revert back to the natural lib instinct and give up and forget about Franken in the Senate."

You constantly make comments like this and then complain when people stereotype you. It is me who is the hypocrite because I call you out for your hypocrisy? I don't like bigots. Plain and simple.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 5:43pm
"Exactly how is my comment "bigoted"....enlighten me on that one...are you going to try and convince me or anybody else that some libs do not favor pacifism and "peace" (at the expense of life and liberty)? "

That's like saying the KKK is righr because SOME black people steal.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 5:43pm
My opinion is that what goes around comes around, and if Franken does go to the Senate, he should always be referred to as an illegitmate Senator who was "anointed" by the Minnesota Supreme Court during an election that was stolen. No Republican should ever back off of that position for the sake of "comity of the Senate" or to "recognize the will of the people" or "for the good of the country" etc.... because I truly believe the best thing for the country is for this to be payback time......for the public to be constantly reminded when the subject of Franken comes up that his presence in the Senate is suspect.

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 4:58pm

Perfectly fine. But you will always be reminded that is is unpatriotic and treasonous to call into a question the legitimacy of s politician who was brought into office legally.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 5:45pm
"Exactly how is my comment "bigoted"....enlighten me on that one..."

You make a general stereotype about group of people you don't like with no actual proof for said stereotype.

bigoted |ˈbigətid| adjective obstinately convinced of the superiority or correctness of one's own opinions and prejudiced against those who hold different opinions : a bigoted group of reactionaries. � expressing or characterized by prejudice and intolerance : a thoughtless and bigoted article.

There's the definition.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 5:46pm
"Go check the other blog (the one about health care) where I just took you to the woodshed for being hypocritical. "

Oh and also if you call that "taking me to the woodshed" you might want to not also be guilty of rampant hypocrisy. I tend to insult when insulted or faced with stupid bigoted comments.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 5:51pm
You lead off posts with ignorant stereotypes and insults to people who don't believe the same as you.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 5:52pm
How many posts will we have to hear from you SJ that contain the words "typical liberal" or "all liberals". Those two phrases immediately render the rest of your argument stupid because it is based on ignorance and bigotry rather than fact.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 6:02pm
otherwise if he just writes the material, he is a writer, not a comedian.

Posted by antisocialist at 06/30/2009 @ 3:28pm | ignore this person | warn this person

thanks for clearing that up. he is a writer cum senator then, not a comedian cum senator...?

shameful!!!!! writers, actors, comedians! writers are the worst by far...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 06/30/2009 @ 6:09pm
franken 12!!!

the perfect protest candidate for the solid left. won't win, but won't kill his career and COULD drive some points home and keep obama on his toes.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 06/30/2009 @ 6:13pm
i thought it was senator cum prostitute.

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 6:15pm
Congrats, Sen. Al Franken. Good to see another progressive in the Senate. Now let's get that public option on health care done.

Posted by hdthoreau at 06/30/2009 @ 6:25pm
Franken is going to be good for the Senate and good for the country. He's not only a comedian, he's a thoughtful man who takes the country seriously. I don't think his comedy persona is going to be front and center at least not for the first year.

It's going to be interesting to hear what Rush says about it all.

Posted by misskaren at 06/30/2009 @ 6:54pm
"Ibb, You can't possibly think this guy was ever a good or successful comedian?" Antisocialist

There is a difference between good and successful. Clearly, he was very successful--stayed on awhile at SNL, has published books that have sold well. Seems to define success. I don't find the guy funny, so I think he is a bad comedian. But not unsuccessful.

Posted by onthehelm at 06/30/2009 @ 7:12pm
#

Great, just what the USA needs right now: ANOTHER Zionist squealing pig at the trough.

Congratulations.

Posted by IlyaKuryakin at 06/30/2009 @ 6:28pm | ignore this person | warn this person

oh...

i thought you were a sane national socialist...

but yer a GODDAM NAZI, aren't you?

what? whats wrong with the JEWS???

WHY MUST FASCISM OBSESS WITH ANTISEMITISM????

lord! jews tend to be well educated, bright, creative (and white)...

WHATS THERE NOT TO LIKE FOR A FASCIST?

in fact, as many top level neocons of hebrew ancestry have shown in the last administration...

JEWS MAKE KICKASS FASCISTS!!!

so yer just a goddam serbian nazi, eh? really?

you disappoint me, ilya.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 06/30/2009 @ 7:12pm
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 5:43pm

sjchermak couldn't take a wet nap to the woodshed to wipe his own bum. Why is it that you pay attention to this guy again?

Posted by IlyaKuryakin at 06/30/2009 @ 6:28pm

Just like The Nation's comments needs another fucktard voice who thinks throwing in a curse word or two is "contributing".

Posted by srjenkins at 06/30/2009 @ 7:14pm
Cccomfo1,

You say ".....But you will always be reminded that is is unpatriotic and treasonous to call into a question the legitimacy of s politician who was brought into office legally......."

My question is, you say, but do you understand?

The reason I ask this is---- if you believe this as you claim you do, then how do you explain or justify the behavior of most of the left with regard to the election of 2000, or the election of 2004?

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 7:15pm
Just like The Nation's comments needs another fucktard voice who thinks throwing in a curse word or two is "contributing".

Posted by srjenkins at 06/30/2009 @ 7:14pm | ignore this person | warn this person

oh he's worse. he's an effin nazi.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 06/30/2009 @ 7:20pm
The reason I ask this is---- if you believe this as you claim you do, then how do you explain or justify the behavior of most of the left with regard to the election of 2000, or the election of 2004?

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 7:15pm

But that was my point SJ. You don't see the irony do you? Do I have to explain the joke that I just made?

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 7:26pm
Cccomfo1,

You talk about "stereotypes", "bigotry", "insults", etc.

1. The issues being debated here are left vs right issues. On the issues there is a clear demarcation between what most on the right believe and most on the left believe.

2. These "threads" start out with almost 100% of the time a leftist columnist writing an article, followed by posts from Conservatives in disagreement and posts by Liberals in agreement.

3. There is nothing wrong with argument, debate, partisanship and even insults to some degree. This is a free country with free speech.

4. There are some posters here that do not quite fit the mold of a Conservative or a Liberal, or who are Conservative on some issues and Liberal on others. And there have been columnists who maybe don't 100% fit that mold either. But the vast majority of posters or columnists do.

5. The reality is that this is a political website with arguments back and forth between lefties and righties. It is not true that this is or is intended to be a place for deep, weighty intellectual discussion that has no ideological bent. Most posters are not only replying to specific individuals but for consumption by the general audience as well. Thus comments, by me and others, are framed as being addressed to "the left", or comments are made about "liberals" because that is how the majority of issues seem to be defined.

6. Thus I am not engaging in "stereotyping" or "bigotry" or whatever if I frame my arguments the way I do, because that is how the issues are framed in our country in general, at least the national ones. Local issues in individual communities do not tend to adhere to that (ordinances, zoning, parking laws, whatever), but the national issues do.

7. I am tired of your harping on this. You are wrong.

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 7:29pm
Cccomfo1,

So now it is OK to joke? Earlier, it would appear that you disapproved of joking, but now you do it too.

It wasn't OK, now it is OK. You were against it before you were for it?

Is your name Cccomfo1 or is it John F. Kerry?

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 7:31pm
So now it is OK to joke? Earlier, it would appear that you disapproved of joking, but now you do it too.

It wasn't OK, now it is OK. You were against it before you were for it?

Is your name Cccomfo1 or is it John F. Kerry?

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 7:31pm

Because 90% of the time when you make comments like that you aren't joking. There's a difference. You make bigoted statements like that all the time.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 7:43pm
7. I am tired of your harping on this. You are wrong.

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 7:29pm

Yeah, saying something like "most liberals are cowards" or "most liberals lie" is really not bigotry. Maybe you should learn the meaning of the word because you seem to be deficient. What you do is not debate issue. You engage in constant stereotypes that have nothing to do with views on the issues. I have seen you say things like "most liberals want to destroy America" so many times. That is bigotry and ignorance and stereotyping. So no sir, YOU are wrong. Maybe if you would never have made comments like those it would be perfectly valid to argue this bu you've made them.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 7:46pm
7. I am tired of your harping on this. You are wrong.

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 7:29pm

You know what it is. You can't see the difference when you complain because someone on this site says that all conservatives want the poor to suffer and you get all hot and bothered and then immediately after make some comment like all liberals hate America.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 7:48pm
From now on I will just point out every instance and then redefine the word so I don't have to sit here and educate you to the meanings of the word hypocrisy and bigotry.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 7:49pm
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 7:43pm | ignore this person | warn this person

sj chermak's a racist?

Posted by ibbleblibble at 06/30/2009 @ 7:49pm
Posted by ibbleblibble at 06/30/2009 @ 7:20pm

Even if true, according to Godwin's law you've now lost any argument on this thread. =)

He is an interesting variant of the gadfly trolls that like to frequent this board - a slightly more lucid Barry25 or Rio. Still, I think I'm going to add him to my ignore list to save me the trouble of visually filtering him. I wish I were as good at engaging new folks as you have shown to be here.

Posted by srjenkins at 06/30/2009 @ 7:55pm
sj chermak's a racist?

Posted by ibbleblibble at 06/30/2009 @ 7:49pm

Bigotry does not mean racism.

bigotry |ˈbigətrē| noun bigoted attitudes; intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself :

Bigotry is actual less about racism and more about intolerance of dissenting opinion.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 8:05pm
"Godwin's law"

reductio ad Hitlerum

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 8:06pm
I have met Franken and sold him some jewelry. My friends are very close to him and they find him rude, arrogant, domineering, demanding and generaly a prick. He harps against the rich while demanding a $2 mil salary as AA goes banco(real principles), his dem Dem fund raisers are so blue that one has to clear out the kids, he has a penchant for luxury items including a G5 for travel... Plus, he cheats on taxes and gets away with it ... A perfect limosine liberal who is there to help the rest of us.

One term at best. The clods like Reid will have a hard time keeping Al quiet. And we need his mouth open all the time and let the rest of the country see how Minnesota shit on it's own shoes once again.

Al is a perfect example of today progressive for the US to see and hopefully do something about it in a few years.

Posted by YourJomamma at 06/30/2009 @ 8:20pm
Posted by srjenkins at 06/30/2009 @ 7:55pm | ignore this person | warn this person

well thanks.

but that guy really IS a nazi. he won't admit it, of course (unless to spite my mocking), but its all there.

he's a national socialist serbian, which in and of itself does not mean he's a nazi...

but he IS an anti-semite as well, as evinced by not so subtle anti semite ketman "code talk" on this and other threads...

so...

angry national socialist + anti-semite = NAZI

the only thing that doesn't fit is the serbian thing. according to classical naziism, he is of course one of the inferior races...

but that was then, this is now...so i still stand by the insinuation that he's a nazi...serbian neo-nazi to be precise, i suppose.

i don't mind losing this argument, SR...LOL

Posted by ibbleblibble at 06/30/2009 @ 8:23pm
Cccomfo1,

1. If I question liberals loyalty to America or if I had implied that some hate America, you need to understand that this is not a Democrat web site.....this is a website far to the left of Democrat.

Democrats do not hate America. Democrats are loyal Americans who have supported their country though thick and thin, and many Democrats have made the ultimate sacrifice and died for their country when America has gone to battle over the years.

And I am sure that there were plenty of Democrats, many many Democrats, among the FDNY, NYPD and Port Authority Police who did their duty and went into 1 and 2 World Trade Center after 8:46 and 9:03 am but never came back out.

2. This is a website far to the left of Democrat....and it is the reality that as you move leftward on the political spectrum you find people who are not too fond of our country the way it is, they believe our country is the one responsible for many or most of the wrongs in the world now, they want to change it to something that most in this country, whether they be Republican or Democrat or Independent or non-political, do not want it to be.

Hop over to The Progressive website...."historian" Howard Zinn.....he thinks that the American existence has been a negative for the world.

I do not create the fact that these people do not like our country. It is what it is .........when I make comments that you cite me in violation of your "bigotry" rules I AM NOT COMMENTING ON DEMOCRATS OR ABOUT DEMOCRATS.....I am talking about far leftists and many of them hate America.

One of the greatest Presidents we have ever had was Harry Truman. (Democrat)

John F. Kennedy told the Communists in Berlin their days were numbered (Democrat)

Lyndon B. Johnson genuinely wanted to eliminate poverty. (Democrat)

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 8:34pm
Cccomfo1,

I keep pointing out, and have never gotten an answer from you, as to why this selective "angst" about my comments and "bigotry", "stereotyping" etc.

Because if you were as genuinely concerned about this issue as you promote, you would be handing out citations and violations to those on the political left on these threads that engage in the same behavior.

But you don't.....and the explanation is that you are operating from a partisan standpoint.....that weakens your credibility..

Because if you were citing people on both the left and right lanes of the information superhighway for these "violations" then I would say your arguments would have credibility.

How about this one?

======================

Great, just what the USA needs right now: ANOTHER Zionist squealing pig at the trough.

Congratulations.

Posted by IlyaKuryakin at 06/30/2009 @ 6:28pm

=======================

How about it? I think this person is talking about Franken....of course I am not a Franken fan (obviously), but it seems that this individual is not coming at things from a left or a right perspective, but from the sewer. This person's mind is an open sewer.

Have you issued this person a violation yet? If so, I apologize, but I haven't seen it yet.

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 8:44pm
Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 8:34pm

The problem is you don't differentiate between far let America haters and general liberals. Most Democrats are liberals. Therefore whenever you make a comment that "all liberals" or "just like every other liberal" then you lump that in with everyone as a stereotype. Which means you leave the realm of logical and fact based argument and entered bigoted and stereotypical argument.

Which is why I try to NEVER say "all conservatives".

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 8:49pm
Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 8:34pm | ignore this person | warn this person

i still don't think the Nation is "far left". "solidly left" perhaps, but by no means "far left". there are very few maoists or trotskyists here, SJ.

and i think you may be underestimating the change that has occured.

people are nervous and scared - they tend to go either left or right when that happens, and since the right EFFED THINGS UP SO BAD (or at least thats wat te average schmuk thinks now - and he's right) and so recently...

COUNTRY'S GOING LEFT MAN!!!

how far? who knows? hats the question.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 06/30/2009 @ 8:50pm
All those card carrying pinko commies of the Great White North finally got their government mooch!

Franken never worked a day in his life for a real private corporation, was born a government mooch and continues on.

Franken hates America. Wants us to talk like pansy sissy fags with evildoers. He's scared of war. Aid'n, abet'n, un-American socialist.

Why does he hate us God fearin, International Harvester drivin' true Merkins anyway??

Posted by winyahn at 06/30/2009 @ 8:54pm
Cccomfo1,

But you never cite other liberals for these "violations" even though many of them do say "all conservatives" etc.

If you are trying to correct my behavior, fine, I will be the first to admit that I can use constructive advice.

But you need to start promoting that advice site-wide to others who demonstrate the same kind of behavior, otherwise you are displaying yourself as a partisan.

Now, there is nothing wrong with being partisan, in fact some people who say they are "non-partisan" or think partisanship is bad are people who really have no strong beliefs at all, and just bend with the wind.

But I do not think that your partisanship and your propensity to instruct me in discourse are mixing too well.

If you are going to instruct about discourse, conduct group sessions.

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 8:54pm
2. This is a website far to the left of Democrat....and it is the reality that as you move leftward on the political spectrum you find people who are not too fond of our country the way it is, they believe our country is the one responsible for many or most of the wrongs in the world now, they want to change it to something that most in this country, whether they be Republican or Democrat or Independent or non-political, do not want it to be.

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 8:34pm

actually, most people have no clue.

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 8:55pm
actually, most people have no clue.

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 8:55pm | ignore this person | warn this person

no clue about what?

Posted by ibbleblibble at 06/30/2009 @ 8:58pm
about what the government does in their name.

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 8:59pm
ibbleblibble,

You say ".....COUNTRY'S GOING LEFT MAN!!!

how far? who knows? hats the question....."

The answer is that it has gone left as far as it is going to go. By any measure of normal economic cycles we should be pulling out of the recession by now.

The Obama "stimulus" policy, the initiatives for socialist health care and cap and trade/environment initiatives - are actually retarding and will continue to stunt business growth and investment.

Costs will be going up and business does not react with confidence to what is essentially printing money that has no practical backing. Business does not have confidence economically.

So the recession will continue and eventually people will start holding Obama, and not George W. Bush, accountable for the economy.

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 9:02pm
this is hardly a "recession".

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 9:05pm
But I do not think that your partisanship and your propensity to instruct me in discourse are mixing too well.

If you are going to instruct about discourse, conduct group sessions.

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 8:54pm

The reason I focus on you, or Happy or Jom is because you are the ones I most often debate with. I gloss over most of the comments on a page. I look for the people who are generally opposed to my viewpoints and then debate with them or I look for the people who tend to be the most informative, Thrawn, Srj and read theres. It has nothing to do with the partisanship and everything to do with who's comments I actually read because they are either informative or in opposition to mine.

I don't read folks like frosty, no offense frosty, because mostly he is on about something random. I don't read Ilya because he is crazy. I simply comment on the dealings with the people I deal with the most. I tend to talk to very few people if you haven't noticed which is why it tends to be you and maybe two other people I ride the hardest about this.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 9:05pm
random?!?!?

ha!

take this, bike boy:

"Pedestrians, cyclists among main road traffic crash victims

Half of 1.27 million people who die in road traffic crashes every year are pedestrians, motorcyclists and cyclists, finds new WHO study.

15 JUNE 2009 | GENEVA/NEW YORK -- The first global assessment of road safety finds that almost half of the estimated 1.27 million people who die in road traffic crashes every year are pedestrians, motorcyclists and cyclists. While progress has been made towards protecting people in cars, the needs of these vulnerable groups of road users are not being met.

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 9:08pm
The best we can hope for is Obama to 1- get blamed, and 2- to fail!!! Yeeeeeeeeeeooooooooooooww!

Posted by winyahn at 06/30/2009 @ 9:10pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 8:59pm | ignore this person | warn this person

dude, i'm clueless, remember? in whose name?

Posted by ibbleblibble at 06/30/2009 @ 9:23pm
in the voter's name.

sjbonker posted:

"they believe our country is the one responsible for many or most of the wrongs in the world now, they want to change it to something that most in this country, whether they be Republican or Democrat or Independent or non-political, do not want it to be."

my comment is that the "average" voter has no clue about what is being done by their "representatives".

they are like sports fans: GO, DEMS GO!

go ask 100 people what TARP stands for.......

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 9:26pm
So the recession will continue and eventually people will start holding Obama, and not George W. Bush, accountable for the economy.

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 9:02pm | ignore this person | warn this person

i think its gonna suck for a long time too. i think its because this country has been living like a third world nation with a HUGE credit card that just maxed out.

we don't PRODUCE enough wealth to continue spending and must re-tool and change the way we do business in many areas. we need to start PRODUCING wealth, which means producing goods and services and developing our human potential as much as possible.

this craphole we find ourselves in is BIG AND DEEP and although i foresee eventual frustration with th administration, i see this resulting in a continueing swing leftward of the pendulum.

the average apolitical marching moron zombie just got his/her switches thrown leftward once they felt the pain themselves and when they flail about slack jawed looking for somebody other than themselves for voting or not voting like idiots - the follies of the republican party are hard to miss or forget...

going leftward. most dems don't even realize how lefward folks ave already gone.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 06/30/2009 @ 9:33pm
most dems don't even realize how lefward folks ave already gone.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 06/30/2009 @ 9:33pm

nor do they care.

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 9:39pm
...according to classical naziism, he is of course one of the inferior races...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 06/30/2009 @ 8:23pm

Have never felt the urge to understand "naziism"....have picked up Mein Kamp a couple of times in book stores but really, really didn't want to invest the time.

Tell me, in very abridged form, what is "classical naziism"?

Posted by Happy at 06/30/2009 @ 10:14pm
i think its gonna suck for a long time too. i think its because this country has been living like a third world nation with a HUGE credit card that just maxed out.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 06/30/2009 @ 9:33pm

Maxing out on credit cards is only a phenomenon for maybe a third of Americans, if even that much. Sure, they can do a lot of damage....see the aftermath of Fannie & Freddie paternalism and liberal do-goodness!

The biggest problem, is our educational system has been transformed from world-leading to mediocre at best; and today and into the future, that's the real battlefield!

Ask yourself, which party is fighting educational choice and real reform....that's the party that cares only about power & control!

Posted by Happy at 06/30/2009 @ 10:19pm
Maxing out on credit cards is only a phenomenon for maybe a third of Americans, if even that much. Sure, they can do a lot of damage....see the aftermath of Fannie & Freddie paternalism and liberal do-goodness!

The biggest problem, is our educational system has been transformed from world-leading to mediocre at best; and today and into the future, that's the real battlefield!

Ask yourself, which party is fighting educational choice and real reform....that's the party that cares only about power & control!

Posted by Happy at 06/30/2009 @ 10:19pm

Is that why on averge Americans carry about 15,000 dollars in credit card debt?

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 10:23pm
I'm Al Franken, and you're @#$%&

Posted by venturemmltd at 06/30/2009 @ 10:30pm
Truely phenominal the large numbers of Dead Minnesota Voters that turned out to vote for Franken! Demoncrats do present positive proof of life after death!

Posted by BigPasture at 06/30/2009 @ 11:05pm
A review of Minnesota's statewide database of registered voters revealed at least 2,812 deceased individuals voted in last November's general election, according to a new report by the "traditional values" advocacy group Minnesota Majority.

Demoncrat Mark Ritchie was so concerned that all votes be counted, he's gone out of his way to ensure even dead voters' ballots were among those counted on behalf of Franken! (and thanks to Richies close friends at ACORN)

Makes sense now why the Demoncrats are so "dead" set against voter I.D.s being required of all voters nationally!

Posted by BigPasture at 06/30/2009 @ 11:17pm
15 JUNE 2009 | GENEVA/NEW YORK -- The first global assessment of road safety finds that almost half of the estimated 1.27 million people who die in road traffic crashes every year are pedestrians, motorcyclists and cyclists. While progress has been made towards protecting people in cars, the needs of these vulnerable groups of road users are not being met.

Posted by frosty zoom at 06/30/2009 @ 9:08pm

You still have a better chance of getting struck by lightning twice then dying on your bike to a car. Not to say it doesn't happen.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 11:28pm
My opinion is that what goes around comes around, and if Franken does go to the Senate, he should always be referred to as an illegitmate Senator who was "anointed" by the Minnesota Supreme Court during an election that was stolen. No Republican should ever back off of that position for the sake of "comity of the Senate" or to "recognize the will of the people" or "for the good of the country" etc.... because I truly believe the best thing for the country is for this to be payback time......for the public to be constantly reminded when the subject of Franken comes up that his presence in the Senate is suspect.

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 4:58pm

O.k., Franken should concede....

But only if Bush, Cheney, Scalia, Thomas et al... turn themselves in to the proprer authorities for the crimes of Juntaism and election swipery...

---------

The biggest barrier that next-President Palin will face (and she will overcome it) as she heads towards the Presidency will be from the "moderate" wing of the Republican party, who will oppose her.

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 4:01pm

What was the biggest barrier that V.p. washout Palin faced last campaign? Oh yeah

Posted by koroviev at 06/30/2009 @ 11:47pm
The biggest barrier that next-President Palin will face (and she will overcome it) as she heads towards the Presidency will be from the "moderate" wing of the Republican party, who will oppose her.

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 4:01pm

What was the biggest barrier that V.p. washout Palin faced last campaign? Oh yeah, that journalistic pit viper, Katie Couric.

Posted by koroviev at 06/30/2009 @ 11:47pm
Ask yourself, which party is fighting educational choice and real reform....that's the party that cares only about power & control!

Posted by Happy at 06/30/2009 @ 10:19pm | ignore this person | warn this person

i think the best thing we we can do for education is to stop trying so hard to do unrealistic things, like "leave no child behind" or "solve all the problems".

ever watch those animal documentaries? the "struggle of life" themed ones? one thing i learned is this...

not all the young reach adulthood. many who do, live short, nasty and brutish lives regardless.

bad things happen and a world without sin is a world of death.

seriously. i believe in a good public education system, but i believe parents are the number one factor in a kid's educational success.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/01/2009 @ 12:11am
Oh and SJ you missed the point of my joke. My joke was that by claiming liberals are hypocrites for criticizing conservatives for calling into question Franken you are at the same time being hypocritical because you said liberals should not call into question Bush.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/01/2009 @ 12:32am
seriously. i believe in a good public education system, but i believe parents are the number one factor in a kid's educational success.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/01/2009 @ 12:11am

Have to agree. No matter how many options you give the parents, if the parents don't care the child will most likely not succeed.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/01/2009 @ 12:33am
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/01/2009 @ 12:33am | ignore this person | warn this person

the right wants to dismantle public ed. the left confuses quantity with quality in education.

and ironically quality means raising standards and letting some chips fall as they may.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/01/2009 @ 12:54am
My opinion is that what goes around comes around, and if Franken does go to the Senate, he should always be referred to as an illegitmate Senator who was "anointed" by the Minnesota Supreme Court during an election that was stolen.

Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 4:58pm

Wow sjchermak, if that's how you feel about a Semator, how ever did you ever cope with the fact that the last president was an illegitmate President who was "anointed" by the Supreme Court during an election that was stolen?

Posted by Shingo at 07/01/2009 @ 02:15am
and ironically quality means raising standards and letting some chips fall as they may.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/01/2009 @ 12:54am

That would be true if we could get quality without quantity, but it appears to be rubbish either way.

Posted by Shingo at 07/01/2009 @ 02:21am
and ironically quality means raising standards and letting some chips fall as they may.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/01/2009 @ 12:54a

Absolutely. I think that we DO need to examine our teaching methods. But overall I agree. I think we should do a few simple things that would help kids alot. I think we should change the time that kids are in school. Let them go to school at 10 and stay till 6. This would make it easier on parents and children and it would make children less likely to get into trouble. I think you should not give kids 3 months off in the summer. I think simple changes like those would increase the effectiveness of education in this country massively and wouldn't require a complete overhaul.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/01/2009 @ 02:37am
The GOP has a moderate wing?

Really?

Perhaps that's the re-re-registered GOP multibillionaire M. Bloomberg.

Yes, it might be fun to watch Big Bucks Bloomberg debate the witchcraft-proofed creationist.

Posted by sloper at 07/01/2009 @ 02:50am
Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/01/2009 @ 12:54am

I think Ken Robinson has it about right in this talk linked below. Modern education developed to meet the needs of business. The goal is to produce people that can do things that they will get paid for - whether that is professors to perpetuate the educational cycle, engineers to build things, doctors to heal people, accountants to...and so on. As part of this process, there is a secondary goal, the socialization of human beings. This is why schools have rigid requirements, bells, sitting still and the like.

The problem is that this does not lead to human flourishing nor does it lead to creative adaptation, an arguably necessary trait in a world that is rapidly changing. Until you change these underlying problems, any talk of improving quality missing the point.

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/ ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html

Posted by srjenkins at 07/01/2009 @ 06:40am
I'm Sorry,

But this guy looks like such a DORK.

I couldn't bring myself to vote for him for anything but Ice Cream Man!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 07/01/2009 @ 06:46am
It's going to be interesting to hear what Rush says about it all.

Posted by misskaren at 06/30/2009 @ 6:54pm

Who cares what Limbaugh has to say. He's not an elected official nor is New Gingrich. Both of those guys are on the payroll of big business and spout out the bottom line for their corporate masters.

Liver and the rest of the neocon morons bitching about Franken being a comedian didn't have any problem with their messiah Ronald Reagan being a piss poor actor, democrat turned republican politician. Then there Arnold as the governor of CA.

The neocons and republican party are hypocrits. Their boys can screw around on their wives and continue to hold office, but will bitch if the other side of the isle does the same. They talk of family values and promptly cut resources to families making less than 60k away while funneling massive resources to millionaires and billionaires.

Anyone who still buys into the phony religious, patriotic crap the right wing throws out there now is mentally deprived. The democratic party is corrupt and in the hip pocket of big business, but the GOP has it's head rammed so far up the asses of it's corporate masters that they evidently can't see or hear anything that is really taking place in this world today other than reducing taxes, promoting business at any cost and deregulating everything.

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/01/2009 @ 06:54am
Cccomfo1,

Here's one for you to critique....Wolfgang1's 6:54 am post immediately above mine.

It does all the things you say shouldn't happen during discourse.

Posted by sjchermak at 07/01/2009 @ 07:09am
Why does he hate us God fearin, International Harvester drivin' true Merkins anyway??

Posted by winyahn at 06/30/2009 @ 8:54pm

Because your ignorance is a threat to the economic, social, and intellectual progress of this great nation?

Posted by Balrog at 07/01/2009 @ 07:27am
Ask yourself, which party is fighting educational choice and real reform....that's the party that cares only about power & control!

Posted by Happy at 06/30/2009 @ 10:19pm

Ummm..The party that wants to use public funds for religious indoctrination?

Posted by Balrog at 07/01/2009 @ 07:30am
Bigotry is actual less about racism and more about intolerance of dissenting opinion. Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/30/2009 @ 8:05pm | ignore this person | warn this person

all racists are bigots, while not all bigots are racist. just most of them.

Posted by emile duBois at 07/01/2009 @ 09:04am
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I CAN'T HELP IT! (sniff)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 07/01/2009 @ 09:04am
Franken never worked a day in his life for a real private corporation,

complete nonsense. when Franken worked for Saturday night live, he was working for NBC which is owned by GE, a real private corporation.

Posted by emile duBois at 07/01/2009 @ 09:07am
Ask yourself, which party is fighting educational choice and real reform....that's the party that cares only about power & control!

Posted by Happy at 06/30/2009 @ 10:19pm

Ummm..The party that wants to use public funds for religious indoctrination?

Posted by Balrog at 07/01/2009 @ 07:30am

OK, like the Left doesn't do some indoctrinations of its own by favoring Leftists as educators. So, the GOP also wants to use public funds for abstinence ed and a few other `lessons' opposed by the Left.....

So, on a scaled basis, aren't you nitpicking while being blind to the trends in the HUGE universe of education; particularly the Primary & Secondary levels?

Posted by Happy at 07/01/2009 @ 09:28am
i still don't think the Nation is "far left". "solidly left" perhaps, but by no means "far left". there are very few maoists or trotskyists here, SJ.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 06/30/2009 @ 8:50pm | ignore this person | warn this person

Are you serious with this statement, ibble? This website is so far left it's socialist. Don't you read the articles?

For Single-Payer Healthcare posted by Peter Rothberg on 06/19/2009

A Seat at the Table for Single-Payer posted by Katrina vanden Heuvel on 06/04/2009

The "O" in Socialism posted by Betsy Reed on 06/12/2009

A Global Recovery for a Global Recession By Joseph E. Stiglitz

There are examples aplenty in "The Nation" archives not only supporting socialism but advocating it as well. Did you write the statement above with a straight face? I hope not.

Posted by fram at 07/01/2009 @ 09:53am
"Not all bigots are Racists posted by emile."

Emile is making progress.

Baby Steps

Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 07/01/2009 @ 10:10am
OK, like the Left doesn't do some indoctrinations of its own by favoring Leftists as educators. So, the GOP also wants to use public funds for abstinence ed and a few other `lessons' opposed by the Left.....

Posted by Happy at 07/01/2009 @ 09:28am

1) To someone of the far-right persuasion, almost everyone appears to be "leftist", when, in fact, the majority of the political spectrum are, by definition, simply moderate/centrists.

2) Abstinence ed is a proven failure and promotes neither abstinence nor education, indeed, it's very basis is the withholding of education.

3) Separation of Church and State: it's not just a good idea, it's the law.

Posted by Balrog at 07/01/2009 @ 10:56am
3a) The indoctrination by the left is not RELIGIOUS indoctrination conducted by RELIGIOUS institutions

Posted by Balrog at 07/01/2009 @ 10:58am
Poppling in from vactaion, to recommend to all our Right-Wing friends Amelia Shlaes' (sp?) article from Bloomberg on how the GOP can resurrect itself.

Key points-

1. Drop the "moralizing"..aka Religious Right agenda.

2. Admit Reagan was wrong and you CAN'T "grow your way out of deficits".

(Neither of which the Base, like Larry or SJCHER will let them do!)

Posted by Mask at 07/01/2009 @ 11:00am
Posted by Balrog at 07/01/2009 @ 10:58am

I know you get my main point on the sorry-ass state of our education, but good dodge, mi amigo!

Posted by Happy at 07/01/2009 @ 11:04am
Posted by fram at 07/01/2009 @ 09:53am

The problem, fram, is you apparently don't have a firm grasp on the differences of communism and socialism, much less between different varieties of communism like Maoists or Trotskyists. Nor do you seem to understand that The Nation, by in large, is focused on electoral politics - which in the United States means focused on politics of the center-right with a mostly authoritarian bent.

Do a compare and contrast with any of the following:

http://www.zmag.org/zmag

http://www.wsws.org/

http://www.indymedia.org/en/index.shtml

http://www.ainfos.ca/

You see how ibbleblibble can make this statement, when it is obvious that The Nation is about as mild as milk toast? You think this is a bastion of leftism because you probably spend a lot of your time watching or listening to right wing "news" on Fox or the various color commentators on AM radio. So, you think The Nation is the wild west of leftism.

I suggest you make an effort to look a bit more at the extremes. Spend a day seeking out the fringe, left and right, and you might have a new appreciation of what "far" anything means.

As a point to get started, try looking for Christian Identity, Black Seperatists, neo-nazi (the Stormfront website), anti-immigrant, and so forth.

It is also helpful to keep in mind that prior to 9/11, a member of a right-wing militia movement was responsible for the deadliest terrorist attack in the U.S.

Posted by srjenkins at 07/01/2009 @ 11:38am
oh, my, god.......

socialism!

Posted by frosty zoom at 07/01/2009 @ 11:41am
SOCIALSIM?!?!!!

<shrieks, runs around the room gibbering and waving hands wildly>

OhMyGodOhMyGodOhMyGod SOCIALISM!!!Where'sMyGun?Where'sMyGun?OhMyGodOhMyGodOhMyGod SOCIALISM!!!Where'sMyGun?Where'sMyGun?OhMyGodOhMyGodOhMyGod SOCIALISM!!!Where'sMyGun?Where'sMyGun?

Posted by Balrog at 07/01/2009 @ 11:47am
Mask,

As far as I know, nobody in the upper levels or any level of the GOP has contacted me for permission to do anything.

I don't think I have the power to "let" them do anything.

If I had the power to deny the GOP permission to do anything, I would deny the GOP the ability to nominate anybody other than next-President Palin for President in 2012.

But even then, I would not need to do that because she will win with or without my help. I will certainly provide any help I am able to if I am still alive by that point. That is 3 1/2 years away, so I have no idea if that will be the case. Nobody can predict stuff like that, nobody can guarantee what will happen or not happen to them.****

At least now, regardless of what happens in my life, I know who will be President after the noon hour on January 20, 2013.

**** footnote....libs think they CAN guarantee what will happen to people....they want people to agree to the socialism because libs think they can provide fair, equal guaranteed outcomes in life for all people, through socialism.

Posted by sjchermak at 07/01/2009 @ 11:57am
Balrog,

If I were Obama, I would conclude you are from Pennsylvania, turning to God and Guns.

Since I am not Obama, I see you are being humorous.

Posted by sjchermak at 07/01/2009 @ 11:59am
oh, my, god.......

socialism!

Posted by frosty zoom at 07/01/2009 @ 11:41am

I rest my point. Frost and Jenkins aren't alarmed by what's happening in this country i.e. government takeovers of the auto, mortage, banking, and insurance industries. Now they are attempting to take over energy and health. Frosty thinks this is funny. Well gentlemen, the bills haven't come due....yet. Are you paying attention to California? That's EXACTLY what's in store for the rest of us in the near future. Laugh now...while you can.

Posted by fram at 07/01/2009 @ 12:24pm
I'd like to thank those who provided comments here. It's enabled me to update my "Ignore" list and filter out the chaff. I added those who revel in personal attacks, those who are clearly delusional, and those who engage in those deadly dull "Hitler" conversations.

Thanks again.

Posted by SamThornton at 07/01/2009 @ 12:40pm
Posted by SamThornton at 07/01/2009 @ 12:40pm | ignore this person | warn this person

effin ignore nazi...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/01/2009 @ 12:53pm
sometimes I wish I could ignore myself.

Posted by emile duBois at 07/01/2009 @ 12:57pm
You can't spend your way out of your problems, either, MASK

Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 07/01/2009 @ 1:02pm
You can't spend your way out of your problems, either, MASK

Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 07/01/2009 @ 1:02pm
whats wrong with socialism?

i'm a utilitarian myself. i guess i'm a socialist as well.

my socialism needs a vibrant free market, however, and does its best to govern most be governing least.

all this hyper-emotionalized ideological crap sickens me after a point. who is qualified to call me a socialist other than myself, and like many conflicting views of "socialism" my version very closely resembles "smart capitalism"...

actually a more accurate description of my philosophy is scientific utilitarian mixed economy national socialist...benevolent democratic non-racist fascist...progressive conservative of the otto von bismark style...

perfectly at home and welcomed by the big tent party of jefferson...

all human organizational systems eventually evolve or devolve to a form of feudalism. what, for example is a federal system but an hierarchical and geographical non aristocratic form of the simplest, oldest way of ordering complex society? how the leadership is chosen is all that really differs - which is of course a lot, in its way...

but the ugly truth is this...

the dystopic future is now. we possess the power to destroy ourselves and to save ourselves, but sooner or later one form or another of a "reckoning" is coming, and all humanity will have to make a serious choice upon which countless other serious choices depend.

the choice is not whether we will thrive or not - but whether we will even survive or not.

those who choose a world without sin (death) will prefer to behave in irresponsible ways, deny reality, and revel in fantasies of vindicating supernatural savagery...

those who choose to at least try to survive (and by survive i don't mean the individual) will have to start seeing things in different ways, dreaming different dreams...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/01/2009 @ 1:12pm
and moving beyond ideological absolutes, cubbyholing and straightjackets...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/01/2009 @ 1:14pm
the choice is not whether we will thrive or not - but whether we will even survive or not.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/01/2009 @ 1:12pm

I don't think we have a choice in the matter. Individuals will continue to act in ways that they rationally belive will continue their existence. They might be right, they might be wrong, but since we cannot know the future, we cannot "choose" a preferred outcome. We can observe the present and past and continue to eperiment with science in an effort to understand natural forces, but we cannot know that our understanding is correct or that things won't change.

Personally, I think the issue is evolution. Will humanity split into different speicies with one killing off the other as homo sapien did to neandrathal? That is the question.

Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 07/01/2009 @ 1:29pm
Posted by fram at 07/01/2009 @ 12:24pm

Fascinating. How do you imagine we got in this little pickle? It was all going great until Obama took office?

It's all well and good to be "alarmed". The question is whether you even understand the problem and what solutions you propose.

I'll humbly suggest that there are a whole host of factors ranging from a Chinese preference for male offspring and the hoarding of wealth in that country to make their precious children attractive to Chinese women to base imperialism to the wholesale destruction of our manufacturing base in a blind following of globalism and efficiencies that come together to make this country very vulnerable on financial, security and many other fronts.

And in the face of this tidal wave of problems, you want to plug your fingers in your ears and mumble to yourself that there is no place like home, hoping your little glass slippers will take you back to the time that was.

You want a solution? The best thing you can do is reconcile yourself to the fact that the US is deeply fucked and a large part of the reason is not socialism (which has never seen a viable indigenous form outside of the Native Americans) but big stickism, particularly in its most recent, neoconservative form.

And I'm not angry at you. I understand people make stupid mistakes. What I don't understand is when people continue to make the same stupid mistakes over and over again and cannot understand what's wrong with their program.

Posted by emile duBois at 07/01/2009 @ 12:57pm

Technically, it is possible. I like to think of it as stream-of-consciousness mode.

Posted by srjenkins at 07/01/2009 @ 1:29pm
Will humanity split into different speicies with one killing off the other as homo sapien did to neandrathal? That is the question. Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 07/01/2009 @ 1:29pm | ignore this person | warn this person

aside from the atrocious spelling there is nothing here.

there is no evidence that homo sapiens "killed off" neanderthals

Posted by emile duBois at 07/01/2009 @ 1:39pm
From the WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124640687950076679.html

Mr. Coleman didn't lose the election. He lost the fight to stop the state canvassing board from changing the vote-counting rules after the fact.

This is now the second time Republicans have been beaten in this kind of legal street fight. In 2004, Dino Rossi was ahead in the election-night count for Washington Governor against Democrat Christine Gregoire. Ms. Gregoire's team demanded the right to rifle through a list of provisional votes that hadn't been counted, setting off a hunt for "new" Gregoire votes. By the third recount, she'd discovered enough to win. This was the model for the Franken team.

Mr. Franken now goes to the Senate having effectively stolen an election. If the GOP hopes to avoid repeats, it should learn from Minnesota that modern elections don't end when voters cast their ballots. They only end after the lawyers count them.

Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 07/01/2009 @ 1:43pm
Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 07/01/2009 @ 1:29pm | ignore this person | warn this person

ever watch the history channel? i bet you do.

i love those end of the world things they do. not necesarily the nostradamus mumbo jumbo stuff so much as the serious shit where they give real numerical statistics and scientific evidence of when "the big one" will hit and what the consequences will be depending upon what form "the big one" appears...

but the point is that sometime between today and at the latest a million years (probably a lot sooner than a million) some natural or manmade, or combination of the two megacatastrophe will occur...

some possibilities would be unavoidably horrendous under our current technology and organization models...let us pray these do not occur before we are ready.

many, perhaps most however, are at the very least mitigatable...

two species, eh? interesting...

that, of course evokes another aspect of the future we need to look at - advances in genetic, medical, nano technology, improved materials and artificial intelligence...

but thats another topic.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/01/2009 @ 1:44pm
Mr. Franken now goes to the Senate having effectively stolen an election. If the GOP hopes to avoid repeats, it should learn from Minnesota that modern elections don't end when voters cast their ballots. They only end after the lawyers count them.

Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 07/01/2009 @ 1:43pm

Franken learned well from Bush/Gore, eh Darin?

Posted by Balrog at 07/01/2009 @ 1:50pm
Yes, Franken...we finally have a pig in the Senate.

Posted by pyeatte at 07/01/2009 @ 2:29pm
Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 07/01/2009 @ 1:43pm

You see any possible problem in using the WSJ editorial pages to "inform" your view of the world? Masticated food might be fine when you're a child or when you're are sick. But, I'm not sure it serves as a good diet for a healthy person.

Posted by srjenkins at 07/01/2009 @ 2:55pm
Emile's concept of history is still a little..uh..off, shall we say.

Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 07/01/2009 @ 3:12pm
...I added those who revel in personal attacks, those who are clearly delusional, and those who engage in those deadly dull "Hitler" conversations.

Thanks again.

Posted by SamThornton at 07/01/2009 @ 12:40pm

Please reconsider, Sam. That's some of the best stuff here.

Posted by schnellerheinz at 07/01/2009 @ 3:21pm
Posted by schnellerheinz at 07/01/2009 @ 3:21pm | ignore this person | warn this person

Jedem Tierchen sein Plaisirchen

Posted by emile duBois at 07/01/2009 @ 3:28pm
Posted by emile duBois at 07/01/2009 @ 3:28pm

A little flower?

or weed?...lots a weeds here..

:)

Posted by YourJomamma at 07/01/2009 @ 4:53pm
to each his own,

or chacun a son gout

Posted by emile duBois at 07/01/2009 @ 5:07pm
Posted by pyeatte at 07/01/2009 @ 2:29pm

No, pyette....Larry Craig left.

Posted by Mask at 07/01/2009 @ 7:29pm
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/01/2009 @ 06:54am

While the Republican leaderships biggest mouths seem to be the most troublesome, as is the same with the Democrats, as a whole they are not hypocrites. Most of the Republican party actually tries to do whatever is they say they are doing. It just seems to always be that the biggest trouble makers are also the loudest mouths in the crowd. I also share a dislike of neocons because I think it is a perversion of what real conservatism it is. But there is no need to reduce and entire party to a bunch hypocrites. Gotta learn to differentiate between the singular people who are hypocrites and the whole. Otherwise it makes you no better than the people you are criticizing.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/01/2009 @ 9:29pm
all racists are bigots, while not all bigots are racist. just most of them.

Posted by emile duBois at 07/01/2009 @ 09:04am

Precisamente.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/01/2009 @ 9:30pm
Thanks again.

Posted by SamThornton at 07/01/2009 @ 12:40pm | ignore this person | warn this person

Hmmmm.....just ignored yourself eh? Your myopia should reward your closed mind abundantly!

Posted by BigPasture at 07/01/2009 @ 9:50pm
Posted by sjchermak at 07/01/2009 @ 11:57am

Sure you have that power, SJCHER...you and a lot of people who think like you.

You'll force the GOP to nominate somebody who will moralize on various social issues (gay marriage, abortion, prayer in school, anti-sex ed, etc.) and further open up the GOP to hypocrisy charges again...

and you'll make sure they believe that we can have massive tax cuts (for the top 1% and corporations) AND increased defense spending AND vague, nebulous, never-to-be-enacted spending cuts AND "We'll grow our way out of the deficit without a single new tax" promises that Repub Presidential candidates (ever since Reagan).

And though not likely Palin, somebody like her who will suffer an ignominious defeat as they have to appeal to voters like you....who make up about 20%-30% of the country.

Posted by Mask at 07/02/2009 @ 06:12am
Posted by sjchermak at 06/30/2009 @ 3:44pm

Pawlenty's bridges are collapsing and you want to waste his time with your inane dog bs

Posted by A_Pax_On_Your_Houses at 07/02/2009 @ 08:25am
nd moving beyond ideological absolutes, cubbyholing and straightjackets...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/01/2009 @ 1:14pm

Couldn't agree more with you. The right keeps accusing folks who question a system built on pure greed (unchecked capitalism....see Milton Friedman) socialists. I see the world in more views than black and white, meaning that everything can't be nor should be run at a profit. National defense is one, obviously, but so should health care, and possibly even public transportation.

We've been seeing airlines fail due to high fuel costs but you can bet your bottom dollar the execs running those airlines are being paid quite handsomely. The pilots and people working in the industry should be paid for their efforts, but the airline industry has resorted to bribing FAA officials in high places so they can cut corners to keep maintenance costs down which in turn leads to horrific events over time.

I see nothing wrong with businesses operating in the private sector, but not at the expense of it's customer's lives. If our society has to have a service to survive, it's should be overseen by the federal government, not private companies that can be bought and sold by the highest bidder. That's how other countries end up owning our shipping inspections stations and the like.

Pure capitalism is as big of a failure as pure communism. It's failed and ultimate power corrupts. Power needs to be distributed and not given to just the wealthy which is where it lies now.

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/02/2009 @ 09:28am
Mr. Franken now goes to the Senate having effectively stolen an election. If the GOP hopes to avoid repeats, it should learn from Minnesota that modern elections don't end when voters cast their ballots. They only end after the lawyers count them.

Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 07/01/2009 @ 1:43pm

Darin, you may not be big, fat, or a troll, but you are clearly uninformed as to the recount specifics in Franken/Coleman.

The first recount was triggered automatically by MN law due to the closeness of the results. Coleman's lead shrunk by more than half.

Franken then petitioned for a hand recount, which is within his right to do. This is a multistage process in which the valid votes are counted by hand; then the votes challenged by both candidates are counted by hand; then any challenged absentee ballots are counted by hand. Unlike Florida in 2000, the MN recount was open and consistent, with an abundance of observers from both parties. It should be noted that no Democratic operatives were sent from Washington to pose as "protesters" to stop any recount.

Both Coleman and Franken challenged the validity of several votes, with Coleman challenging more (146) than Franken (123). After this review, Franken took the lead.

The canvassing board then counted votes which had initially been challenged by the candidates but which challenges were later withdrawn. Franken's lead shrunk, but he remained ahead in the race.

Finally, the challenged absentee ballots were counted. Franken's lead increased. At this point, Coleman took to the courts to overturn the results. His team was guilty of so much misconduct during the court process that Coleman was sanctioned and had to pay Franken $95k in legal costs.

Posted by Realocrat at 07/02/2009 @ 10:08am
Finally?? What'r you kidding me?

Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 07/02/2009 @ 11:02am
Mask,

Nothing I do would "open up the GOP to hypocrisy charges".

That is standard operating procedure from the left. It is always in place, has been as long as I can remember.

The only thing that would change that is if most of the GOP were to become even more like what Colin Powell and John McCain are now - almost Democrats themselves. If the GOP were to move to the center and then beyond the center even more leftward, then maybe the GOP would not be accused of hypocrisy.

In other words, we would have 2 Democrat parties in this country.

Maybe President Palin will start cutting wasteful government spending. And the left will howl and scream when she does.

Posted by sjchermak at 07/02/2009 @ 11:06am
Chip,

Finally? Um...yes. In case you missed it, Coleman conceded. So...finally.

Posted by Realocrat at 07/02/2009 @ 11:28am
"Maybe President Palin will start cutting wasteful government spending." --sjASSCLOWN @ 11:06am

When SJ-ASSCLOWN gets all indignant about "wasteful government spending", could he mean George "Hell No, I Won't Go!" W. Loser's SandBox adventure against 100% disarmed Iraq?

"The three trillion dollar war"--Joseph Stiglitz & Linda Bilmes (The Times, 23Feb08):

'The Bush Administration was wrong about the benefits of the war and it was wrong about the costs of the war. The president & his advisers expected a quick, inexpensive conflict. Instead, we have a war that is costing more than anyone could have imagined.

The cost of direct US military operations - not even including long-term costs such as taking care of wounded veterans - already exceeds the cost of the 12-year war in Vietnam and is more than double the cost of the Korean War.

And, even in the best case scenario, these costs are projected to be almost ten times the cost of the first Gulf War, almost a third more than the cost of the Vietnam War, and twice that of the First World War. The only war in our history which cost more was the Second World War, when 16.3 million U.S. troops fought in a campaign lasting four years, at a total cost (in 2007 dollars, after adjusting for inflation) of about $5 trillion (that's $5 million million, or �2.5 million million). With virtually the entire armed forces committed to fighting the Germans and Japanese, the cost per troop (in today's dollars) was less than $100,000 in 2007 dollars. By contrast, the Iraq war is costing upward of $400,000 per troop.

Most Americans have yet to feel these costs. The price in blood has been paid by our voluntary military and by hired contractors. The price in treasure has, in a sense, been financed entirely by borrowing...'

Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 07/02/2009 @ 11:31am
sjchermak,

Your vision of a President Palin is a pipe dream. She was exposed in the last election and her political career outside of Alaska is over.

The Republican party needs to leave people like her behind if it has any hope of political relevancy going forward. In the last election, McCain was essentially fighting a two-front war. On the one hand, he has to appear to support the profoundly ineffective and unpopular policies of the far-right, who inexplicably exert far too much control over the party's direction. This puts him squarely at odds with the centrists, whom McCain needed (and any Presidential candidate needs) in the general election to win. Until the GOP sheds itself of the wingnuts on the right, it will continue to lose ground, lose elections, and lose relevance.

Now, McCain was a relative moderate--imagine what would have happened if Palin had been at the top of the ticket! Obama's landslide victory would have been even greater.

Hopefully this most recent election is a bellwether for the death of the neoconservative movement. It has been nothing but bad for America.

Posted by Realocrat at 07/02/2009 @ 11:40am
Where does begin with a creature so bathetic, so Kim-Il Sung party line as SjASSCLOWN? In SJ, we got a guy who:

-Insists up & down that blacks do not want to vote.

-Has the ass to call for racial profiling when he has affirmed his amor for The New Pearl Harbor (9/11).

-Beats off with no shame over the invasion of Iraq and over Palin (whom he insists is some kind of nearly parallel reality president) even while he has no military record & will be getting no booty call from Wasilia.

-Apes ALL GOP tax&spend fairytales.

"Palin flip-flopped on Bridge to Nowhere funds"--T. Kizza, Anchorage Daily News, 31Aug08:

'When John McCain introduced Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate Friday, her reputation as a tough-minded budget-cutter was front & center. "I told Congress, thanks but no thanks on that bridge to nowhere," Palin told the cheering McCain crowd, referring to Ketchikan's Gravina Island bridge. But Palin was for the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it.

The Alaska governor campaigned in 2006 on a build-the-bridge platform, telling Ketchikan residents she felt their pain when politicians called them "nowhere." They're still feeling pain today in Ketchikan, over Palin's subsequent decision to use the bridge funds for other projects--and over the timing of her announcement, which they say came in a pre-dawn press release that seemed aimed at national news deadlines.

"I think that's when the campaign for national office began," said Ketchikan Mayor Bob Weinstein on Saturday. Meanwhile, Weinstein noted, the state is continuing to build a road on Gravina Island to an empty beach where the bridge would have gone--because federal money for the access road, unlike the bridge money, would have otherwise been returned to the federal government...'

Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 07/02/2009 @ 11:46am
Posted by sjchermak at 07/02/2009 @ 11:06am

I approve of everything you are saying. I think the GOP is doing the exact right thing to push moderate Republicans like Arlen Specter into the Democratic party. Who needs those RINOs?

When evangelicals, free market fundamentalists, Old Rightists, anti-immigrant, neoconservative and paleoconservatives can all agree to disagee and effectively turn the GOP into the Constitution, Libertarian, a Modern Know Nothing, or schism into their own third-parties maybe Democrats will join them in this clever strategy and actually introduce some diversity of opinion into our rather straight-jacketed political discourse.

Finally, you've said something that make sense.

Posted by srjenkins at 07/02/2009 @ 11:51am
Posted by sjchermak at 07/02/2009 @ 11:06am

Oh, keep going with that President Palin thing too. I haven't such an interesting candidate for a Presidential ticket since Thomas Eagleton.

Posted by srjenkins at 07/02/2009 @ 11:54am
According to a Nobel Prize winner and one of the great economists of the late 20th/early 21st century, what cabal of Welfare Queens drove their shiny Welfare Quenn Cadillic to Baghdad to see off a past-his-sell date Ba'ahtist Gangsta' with zilch offensive capacity in the 'hood---and then hit the taxpayer with the $3, 000, 000, 000+ price tage of their useless joyride junket that's also left a few thousand flag-draped coffins by the road in it is wake???

Don't ask sjASSCLOWN such "tuff" questions that have already been answered resoundlingly by reality's resolute call to the reality based community.

Indeed, asking such questions may trigger further psychotic episodes on SJ's part accompanied by further retreats into his protective shell of talk radio...Where the mean bad liberal world cannot reach SJ (whimper whimper)...And where Saint Sarah is soon to be "raptured" into the White House along with Ayatollah Todd (although, in SJ's fantasies, Saint Sarah r-e-a-l-l-y wants SJ becuase she has noticed his fan letters)...And where African-Americans obligingly make origami out of their ballots because they don't want bothersome civil liberties anyway, just like SJ says...And where the greatest terrorist slaughter in the history of Great Britian can for SJ stand, by sickly ass-backward illogic, as a monumental victory of The Good Sheppard Tony Blair's defense of Britian's homeland thru SJ's ultra-party-line reflexes that are as twisted as the metal bus frames that were sheered off by the murderous explosions that SJ sees as a "triumph"...Yes, SJ burrows deeper & deeper into this shell where Maximum Leader Rush and Supreme Prophet Sean's angry vioces reverb' & where SJ finds succor from a world that (sniff sniff boo-hoo) does not understand him and his "ideas"...

Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 07/02/2009 @ 12:12pm
**** footnote....libs think they CAN guarantee what will happen to people....they want people to agree to the socialism because libs think they can provide fair, equal guaranteed outcomes in life for all people, through socialism.

Posted by sjchermak at 07/01/2009 @ 11:57am

Wait just a second...wasn't it YOU who just KNEW what would happen (on a different thread) in Iraq if we didn't go in...Saddam would team up with the terrorists, completely recreate his WMD program without anyone knowing, etc.? And now you say that "libs" think they can guarantee what will happen?

OMG. What AMAZING hypocrisy....

Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 07/02/2009 @ 12:34pm
OMG. What AMAZING hypocrisy....

Posted by Stephen_Carver1 at 07/02/2009 @ 12:34pm

Yep.

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 07/02/2009 @ 2:24pm
Stephen_Carver1,

Actually, no hypocrisy at all because you and I are not talking about the same thing.

When I am referring to libs "guaranteeing" something, I was not talking about predictions of future current events or news or actions of leaders foreign or domestic.

I am talking about libs wanting to guarantee all people equal outcome in life through the use of socialism.

In other words, instead of granting people equal opportunity, which is what our country stand for and what people want, including people who have been denied opportunity before, libs want to hand over to everybody a complete equal outcome in life...using socialism to do this.

Since people are all completely different, this is next to impossible and has never worked anywhere else, but libs insist on this goal and condemn any who oppose it.

The achievement of the methods use to get to this goal, where the methods have been implemented, just succeed in making everybody equally poor.

In the Soviet Union, the government thought they would score a propaganda victory one time by showing an American made television program about the plight of Blacks in America.

But what the Soviet citizens saw was different than their overseers thought they would see.

The Soviet citizens saw that even though conditions were bad for some Blacks in America, life for Blacks in America was still better than what the Soviets "enjoyed" in Utopia!!

People do not want an equal outcome handed to them. That is an insult to them. They want equal opportunity, and then they will work to achieve their success, as many have proven.

You label my forecast of what would happen in Iraq as a "guarantee", but you are twisting words and screaming "hypocrisy" as you fail to see we are talking different things.

Posted by sjchermak at 07/02/2009 @ 3:54pm
Coleman defines what it is to be the supreme example of a SoreLoser. He only claimed the seat in the 1st place because the incumbent Wellstone died the week before the election. Before ColeLoserMan, what was the the last failed legal jihad by rightwing zombies against Franken?

'Franken bests Fox: Judge calls conservative network case against comedian "wholly without merit"', by M. Goldberg, Salon.com

23 Aug '03) His voice full of amused contempt, U.S. District Judge Denny Chin refused Fox News' request for an injunction against author and comedian Al Franken's new book on Friday. "There are hard cases and there are easy cases," said Chin. "This is an easy case. The case is wholly without merit both factually and legally ... It is ironic that a media company that should seek to protect the First Amendment is instead seeking to undermine it."

The hearing couldn't have gone better for Franken, who is being sued by Fox because the network claims his new book, "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right," violates Fox's trademark of the phrase "Fair and Balanced." Fox had sought to block Franken's use of the phrase pending a trial for trademark infringement, in which it hoped to win compensation for damages.

But Chin's ruling suggested there might not be a trial. Besides rejecting Fox's petition for an injunction, Chin practically invited Franken's lawyers to file for dismissal. And he hinted that if it pursues its lawsuit, Fox may lose the very trademark it's trying to defend -- a trademark that, according to the suit, Fox has spent $61 million promoting.

In its legal filings, Fox's suit has imitated the bellowing bluster of its talk show star Bill O'Reilly, who by several accounts pushed the network to take on Franken..

Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 07/03/2009 @ 09:21am

John Nichols

Breaking news and analysis on political, social, economic and cultural activism that mainstream media commonly ignore.

Senator Al Franken

posted by John Nichols on 06/30/2009 @ 5:43pm

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Senator Al Franken

posted by John Nichols on 06/30/2009 @ 5:43pm

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John Nichols

Archives

» The Beat

» Editor's Cut

» The Notion

» The Dreyfuss Report

» Act Now!

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