The 'New GM': Layoffs, Factory Closings, Offshoring

The trouble with the whole "Nixon goes to China" theory -- which is grounded in the calculus that big progress is made when a politician goes against type to address a seemingly intractable challenge -- is that sometimes the "bold" gesture is really just more of the same.

This is an important reality to recognize as the major media in the United States begins to play up the reshaping of General Motors by the Obama administration's auto-industry task force as a courageous or groundbreaking "new" initiative to "save" domestic automaking.

It's not.

The GM bankruptcy and bailout is the continuation of post-industrial policies of the Clinton and Bush years. Those policies, which encouraged companies to shutter factories in the US and move operations to foreign countries with lower wages and weaker regulations, were defined by Wall Street rather than Main Street. The model of a "healthy" American company was defined by stock and bond speculators, who rewarded short-term thinking and brutal cost-cutting, even if these strategies resulted in the loss of millions of jobs, the closing of hundreds of functional factories and the deindustrialization of communities, regions and whole states that had once been among the most productive in the world.

Nothing about the old way of doing business made sense, and it made a wreck of GM. After decades of closing factories, laying off workers and shifting production overseas, the company now finds itself with $172.8 billion in debt.

It would make sense to change course, radically.

But the Obama administration is not doing anything radical.

Rather, it wants to create a "New GM" that stays the course of the old GM.

If all goes according to plan, the "New GM" will close down as many as 20 factories in Michigan, Indiana, Ohio and Delaware. Additional plants in Tennessee and Michigan will be put on "standby," for probable closing. At least 21,000 family-supporting jobs will be lost, as the corporation shifts production to new facilities in China and other foreign countries. Those cuts come on the heels of GM factory closings last year that cost tens of thousands of jobs and shattered communities across the Great Lakes states just as the downturn was developing into a deep recession.

This massive de-industrialization plan -- with its rapid offshoring of work once done in the United States -- will be paid for by the federal government.

It will cost US taxpayers a great deal to eliminate this many US jobs -- Washington has already handed GM $20 billion and is expected to shift another $30 billion into the coffers of the corporation. "Whether that investment will ever be recovered is still an open question," suggests the New York Times report.

So what should taxpayers make of a scheme to risk $50 billion on a project to layoff US workers, close US factories and shift work overseas in order to satisfy speculators who continue to reward only race-to-the-bottom strategies?

The Times suggests that we ought to be impressed with the "Nixon-goes-to-China" courage being displayed by the president and his auto-industry task force. "The company will also have to shed 21,000 union workers and close 12 to 20 factories, steps that most analysts thought could never be pushed through by a Democratic president allied with organized labor," the paper chirps on its front page.

Spare us.

It takes very little courage for a Democratic president to side with multinational corporations, in the same way that his Democratic and Republican predecessors have.

Courage involves breaking pattern and doing something bold, like recognizing that the United States needs a manufacturing sector and making a commitment to modernizing basic industries and keeping skilled workers on the job. This is not a rejection of globalization; rather, it is an embrace of the future that says the US chooses to compete rather than give up.

An investment of $50 billion in federal money to close 20 major factories and shed 21,000 jobs is not a plan to "save," let alone revitalize, manufacturing in this country. It is an abandonment workers and communities that speeds up the de-industrialization of the United States. And it encourages GM executives -- be they "old" or "new" -- to be more concerned about the company's stock value than the adoption of smart long-term strategies.

Comments (118)

1. NICHOLS: "....just more of the same."

   But,.......the Teleprompter clearly spells out "Change We can Believe In"!

   Hopey and Changey forever! Long live the King!

   Posted by Happy at 06/01/2009 @ 10:54am

2. GM's stocks inexplicably shot up to over a dollar.....when I tried to short a block of 10k shares, E*Trade wouldn't let me....damn!

   Suckers need counterparties to part their money.....I'm ready but....thwarted!

   Posted by Happy at 06/01/2009 @ 10:57am

3. "Spending $50 billion in tax dollars to speed up deindustrialization makes no sense."

   it does for ¡the LIQUIDATORS!

   Posted by frosty zoom at 06/01/2009 @ 11:09am

4. a familiar meme:

   http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/01/opinion/01krugman.html?_r=2

   "reagan did it."

   Posted by frosty zoom at 06/01/2009 @ 11:13am

5. "But the Obamagarch administration is not doing anything radical."

   nope.

   Posted by frosty zoom at 06/01/2009 @ 11:15am

6. Q: So what should taxpayers make of a scheme to risk $50 billion on a project to layoff U.S. workers, close U.S. factories and shift work overseas in order to satisfy speculators who continue to reward only race-to-the-bottom strategies?

   A: American Idol may have ended with the coronation of Kris Allen, but the Idol news cycle continues. And since one controversy wasn't enough this week, the specious voting story (that is, whether AT&T unfairly tilted the final vote toward Allen) has been replaced by an increasingly loud call for Adam Lambert to come out as gay.

   Posted by frosty zoom at 06/01/2009 @ 11:19am

7. " the paper chirps on its front page."

   it's spring, after all.

   Posted by frosty zoom at 06/01/2009 @ 11:21am

8. "This is not a rejection of globalization; rather, it is an embrace of the future that says the U.S. chooses to compete rather than give up."

   not give up, but

   incur a triple-equity sub alt-AAA rotating ARM of derivative based capital exchange spread swaps.

   Posted by frosty zoom at 06/01/2009 @ 11:25am

9. http://www.spam.com/products/hotandspicy.aspx

   Posted by frosty zoom at 06/01/2009 @ 11:28am

10. But,.......the Teleprompter clearly spells out "Change We can Believe In"!

    Hopey and Changey forever! Long live the King!

    Posted by Happy at 06/01/2009 @ 10:54am

    happy,

    please explain to me how treasury secretary gramm would have handled this in the face of the ¡¡GLOBAL FINANCIAL MELTDOWN!!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 06/01/2009 @ 11:30am

11. Secretary Gramm today announced his new plan for shoring up the banking industry, "The Privblic Asset Currency Spore" or PACS.

    "With PACS, we will be able to reconstitute the banks, providing much needed rubber for the world's financial securtity", Mr. Gramm told reporters.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 06/01/2009 @ 11:37am

12. I can see the future of GM as the govt and the unions screw the public into thinking they can run a business, especially with Obamas experience in running...nothing....never meeting a payroll and all that goes with it...

    The new GM will build a car designed and mandated by government,built by workers who will have more getting some kind of check for not working than those who actually build the car, priced by hacks who know nothing of market principles or demand economy, and the damm thing will be small, dangerous, and lose value faster than the value of the bond holders yeaterday..and will be too expensive with horseshit quality. The people will sell them back for $1.11 a ton to China as scrap.

    Think K car only worse...

    the new GovMent(GM) cars will join others in the same historical paradigm of auto innovation and success stories..

    the East German car, the Russian car, the Yugo... Yeah, I can see the future...bankrupt. Maybe Chavez will build a winner.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 06/01/2009 @ 11:46am

13. The reason 20,000 will lose their jobs is because there is no demand for the product GM, its management and it unions build. I would never consider another Chrysler product or GM product since the unions were given the big share as a political payback for voting and the govenrment now in charge. I am looking at another BMW in the next 1 or 2 years...if Obama doesn't tax them into the tank in order to "guarentee" GM has a chance to "compete fairly",despite being built in the US.

    GM should go bankrupt and let the Germans, or Japanese buy what it there and show America what it has so obviously forgot....how to run a successful business.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 06/01/2009 @ 11:53am

14. "GM should go bankrupt and let the Germans, or Japanese buy what it there and show America what it has so obviously forgot....how to run a successful business."

    i actually agree with jomamma here

    Posted by darladoon at 06/01/2009 @ 12:02pm

15. It's funny how we get Right-wingers like HAPP and JOMAMAASCH telling us two completely different stories...

    HAPP telling us "nothing has changed"...

    MAASCH telling us that Obama is a "East German/Soviet socialist" nationalizing everything.

    heheh

    Posted by Mask at 06/01/2009 @ 12:06pm

16. MAASCH telling us that Obama is a "East German/Soviet socialist" nationalizing everything.

    heheh

    Posted by Mask at 06/01/2009 @ 12:06pm

    Can't find me tell you that anywhere..

    I am telling you we will get the same quality and innovation the model Obama is using to "save" GM that was used in building those famous cars of east Germany, Russia, Yugosolvia....

    and any other government run, designed,marketed product that has no fear of earning a profit when the bean counters are making decisions in...Washington, as opposed to those that must answer to the stockholders.

    I expect you., Mask, to be ready to put down your money to be one of the first to buy a new GM car?

    Posted by YourJomamma at 06/01/2009 @ 12:19pm

17. These are the same guys running GM now.... " Subject: Memorable Quotes

    Great Orators of the Democratic Party

    'One man with courage makes a majority.' - Andrew Jackson

    'The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.' - Franklin D. Roosevelt

    'The buck stops here.' - Harry S. Truman

    'Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.' - John F. Kennedy

    And from today's Genius Democrats...............

    'It depends what your definition of 'IS' is?'' - Bill Clinton

    Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac are not in crisis

    Barney Frank (fall 2003)

    'That Obama - I would like to cut his NUTS off.' - Jesse Jackson

    'Those rumors are false .... I believe in the sanctity of marriage.' - John Edwards

    'I invented the Internet' - Al Gore

    'The next Person that tells me I'm not religious, I'm going to shove my rosary beads up their ASS.' - Joe Biden

    ' America is--is no longer, uh, what it--it, uh, could be, uh, what it was once was...uh, and I say to myself, 'uh, I don't want that future, uh, uh for my children.' - Barack Obama

    'I have campaigned in all 57 states. - Barack Obama (Quoted 2008)

    'You don't need God anymore, you have us Democrats.' - Nancy Pelosi (Quoted 2006)

    'Paying taxes is voluntary.' - Sen. Harry Reid

    'Bill is the greatest husband and father I know. No one is more faithful, true, and honest than he.' - Hillary Clinton (Quoted 1998)

    HOW LUCKY CAN WE BE TO HAVE SUCH BRILLIANT MINDS IN CHARGE OF OUR GREAT COUNTRY?

    Posted by YourJomamma at 06/01/2009 @ 12:21pm

18. Rich nobility dictatoeship -- When are we going to rebel?

    An intelligent middleclass enriching itself upon the misery of laboring men, a rich nobility doing whatever will maximize profit -- someone start a revolt and count me in.

    Posted by Alabama.John at 06/01/2009 @ 12:48pm

19. Anyone can manufacture better then the greedy multinationals -- Our only hope give GM to the workers, and until our economy improves block all imports from China

    Posted by Alabama.John at 06/01/2009 @ 1:01pm

20. Lots of analysis from right wingers who work with their asses rather than their hands. More of the old line,"What's best for me is best for you". Hogpuck.

    Posted by Sorelish at 06/01/2009 @ 1:02pm

21. Posted by YourJomamma at 06/01/2009 @ 12:19pm

    Already own a GM car. But waited on a hybrid and Toyota was the only one stepping up until the Ford Liberty. If GM builds one, I'll buy it.

    And my main point MAASCH was on how you and HAPP are like Rush and John Cornyn....two conflicting spins from the Right.

    Posted by Mask at 06/01/2009 @ 1:11pm

22. HOW LUCKY CAN WE BE TO HAVE SUCH BRILLIANT MINDS IN CHARGE OF OUR GREAT COUNTRY?-----Posted by YourJomamma at 06/01/2009 @ 12:21pm

    10. "Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?" --Florence, South Carolina, Jan. 11, 2000

    9. "As yesterday's positive report card shows, childrens do learn when standards are high and results are measured." --on the No Child Left Behind Act, Washington, D.C., Sept. 26, 2007

    8. "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." --Washington, D.C., Dec. 19, 2000

    7. "I'm the decider, and I decide what is best. And what's best is for Don Rumsfeld to remain as the Secretary of Defense." --Washington, D.C. April 18, 2006

    6. "There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on --shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again." --Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002

    5. "Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country." --Poplar Bluff, Mo., Sept. 6, 2004

    4. "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." --Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

    3. "You work three jobs? ... Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that you're doing that." --to a divorced mother of three, Omaha, Nebraska, Feb. 4, 2005

    2. "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job." --to FEMA director Michael Brown, who resigned 10 days later amid criticism over his handling of the Hurricane Katrina debacle, Mobile, Ala., Sept. 2, 2005

    1. "Bring 'em own" (to Iraqi insurgency)

    Posted by Mask at 06/01/2009 @ 1:13pm

23. Fear.

    Sell fear.

    Buy the book.

    It's the only thing left.

    It's the 'Going Out Of Business Forever Sale'.

    Everything must go.

    Including the people.

    And all this happened...

    Before Obama became president...

    Much to the chagrin of those who would rewrite

    The Story of America

    So that their names will not appear within.

    Posted by ficheye at 06/01/2009 @ 2:13pm

24. Lots of analysis from right wingers who work with their asses rather than their hands. More of the old line,"What's best for me is best for you". Hogpuck.

    Posted by Sorelish at 06/01/2009 @ 1:02pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Now just what is your job history MANCHO FOOLO? I told you mine laboring at farming, ranching, construction, insurance co. mid. manger, ins. agent etc. in the last almost 50 yrs. Why are you so shy?

    Posted by BigPasture at 06/01/2009 @ 2:52pm

25. Hmmmm.... I never would have thought Mr. Nichols could almost get so close to the very truth of the Obamantion that make desolation admin. and the Demoncrats policy of economic and institutional theory of total chaos and collapse of the U.S.A.. Nice try!

    Posted by BigPasture at 06/01/2009 @ 3:06pm

26. Posted by BigPasture at 06/01/2009 @ 3:06pm

    Gibberish?

    Posted by Extraneous at 06/01/2009 @ 3:42pm

27. No mention of what kind of product the 'New GM' will be making at the other end of bankruptcy. Whether the government, as majority shareholder, forces GM to make better quality, greener cars in the US is the key to whether jobs, and the taxpayers investment, are recovered.

    Posted by scottbp at 06/01/2009 @ 4:22pm

28. Gibberish? Posted by Extraneous at 06/01/2009 @ 3:42pm

    A perfect combination of HAPPY and COMANCHE. ........................

    (Transportation, farming, musician, factory labor, writing, sound technician, biographer, novelist)

    Thought I'd throw in a little work history for the all american request posted by Mr. BigPasture. What does one usually find in a pasture? That's right. Do I need to say it? We're saved! Cars can be powered by methane!

    Posted by ficheye at 06/01/2009 @ 4:27pm

29. End of manufacturing= end of US empire. When the finance whizzes and bankers took over the economy they got addicted to making easy money by flipping papers and creating bubbles.

    Sadly, these guys don't do manufacturing--it's too hard a buck. So we began to sink into a weird world of credit default swaps, sub-prime mortgages and hedge funds. And not even humpty-dumpty, (Larry Summers)can put our old empire back together again.

    Posted by hkaplan at 06/01/2009 @ 4:36pm

30. Whether the government, as majority shareholder, forces GM to make better quality, greener cars in the US is the key to whether jobs, and the taxpayers investment, are recovered.

    Posted by scottbp at 06/01/2009 @ 4:22pm

    Can you even fathom how wrong your statement is? The cars can be anything they want them to be. The "FORCING" by the government will be in the limiting of the consumer's freedom to choose. Not in forcing GM what to build.

    What incentive will we have to buy GM if the government "forces" GM to make better quality, greener cars? And explain again just how easy that little task is. You must be a design engineer in the automotive industry, right?

    It sounds to me, you, like most liberals, are more interested in forcing consumers to buy what YOU think they should own, not what they'd like to own given a free choice...

    Posted by freiheit1 at 06/01/2009 @ 5:24pm

31. Here's an example of twisted liberal logic, forcing consumers into a pattern LIBERALS think they should follow, ignoring consumers' freedom of choice.

    From Michael Moore's latest; "Announce that we will have bullet trains criss-crossing this country in the next five years. Japan is celebrating the 45th anniversary of its first bullet train this year. Now they have dozens of them. Average speed: 165 mph. Average time a train is late: under 30 seconds. They have had these high speed trains for nearly five decades -- and we don't even have one! The fact that the technology already exists for us to go from New York to L.A. in 17 hours by train, and that we haven't used it, is criminal. Let's hire the unemployed to build the new high speed lines all over the country. Chicago to Detroit in less than two hours. Miami to DC in under 7 hours. Denver to Dallas in five and a half. This can be done and done now.

    Okay, one, there are no bullet trains here because consumers don't want them and they can't be profitable here. Or they WOULD be here. Two, and be honest, do you think his pompous idea to "hire the unemployed to build the new high speed lines" is at all realistic. Do you think Mikey would know how to do that? Do you think for one second, he's thinking he'd work that job? Would you? Hi, I used to be a mortgage adviser, but now I'm fulfilling my dream by working in the hot sun moving rocks into a pile to make room for high speed rail! I LOVE AMERICA!

    It is insanity. Wake up!

    Posted by freiheit1 at 06/01/2009 @ 5:38pm

32. It was the jobs and their disposable income that supported the American Market. No jobs and no Market! They can produce all the cars they want overseas and fluff up the banks, but there will be no market for those cars, or any need for the credit to buy them, because, they have destroyed the consumers ability to purchase them. The docks are now loaded with cars that they cannot sell. We are looking at a worldwide depression, and it is caused by multinational greed seeking to drive down wages. They are destroying their own wealth. We are going to need some new political parties!

    Posted by pjcasey at 06/01/2009 @ 5:51pm

33. It sounds to me, you, like most liberals, are more interested in forcing consumers to buy what YOU think they should own, not what they'd like to own given a free choice...

    Posted by freiheit1 at 06/01/2009 @ 5:24pm

    Sounds to me, you, like most (place expletive here), are more interested in telling people what they think, rather than LISTENING to what they are actually saying...

    Posted by Extraneous at 06/01/2009 @ 5:56pm

34. Extraneous

    Really, after my posting direct quotes before adding my comments, please briefly explain what they were actually saying that I wasn't listening to?

    Posted by freiheit1 at 06/01/2009 @ 5:59pm

35. "Let's hire the unemployed to build the new high speed lines all over the country."

    What's possible to misinterpret in that statement? Please, help me Extraneous.

    Posted by freiheit1 at 06/01/2009 @ 6:02pm

36. The Kennedy's found themselves dead after threatening some bold moves against The Chosen Gatekeepers. I wonder how many death threats Obama gets in an average week?

    Posted by DejaVu at 06/01/2009 @ 6:40pm

37. Spot on Mr. Nichols. The most heinous bit of spin that has to be stomped out is that labor costs caused the problem. When mismanagement by the executives was the sole culprit. For years they ordered the construction of idiotic vehicles that few people wanted or could afford like Hummers and heavy duty trucks, gradually driving GM into the red. They will conveniently fail to mention that those vehicles were built efficiently and as ordered, by labor. It's not their fault that the bosses made stupid decisions. The one item that GM paid for that should be taken off of the backs of American companies is health care. That has to go to a fully supported and publicly owned single-payer system immediately. Naturally the people that would benefit the most from keeping that costs in the bank, the employers, will fight it tooth and nail? It is insane.

    Posted by Milhaus at 06/01/2009 @ 6:40pm

38. Slow day at The Nation, BIG day on Wall St., BIG day for energy stocks and I'm definitely HAPPY....so, I thought the following WSJ Op-Ed is just the ticket.......:~)

    OPINION MARCH 14, 2009

    Is Rand Relevant?

    By YARON BROOK

    Ayn Rand died more than a quarter of a century ago, yet.....her magnum opus, "Atlas Shrugged," is selling at a faster rate today than at any time during its 51-year history.

    There's a reason. In "Atlas," Rand tells the story of the U.S. economy crumbling under the weight of crushing government interventions and regulations. Meanwhile, blaming greed and the free market, Washington responds with more controls that only deepen the crisis. Sound familiar?

    The novel's eerily prophetic nature is no coincidence. "If you understand the dominant philosophy of a society," Rand wrote elsewhere in "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal," "you can predict its course." Economic crises and runaway government power grabs don't just happen by themselves; they are the product of the philosophical ideas prevalent in a society -- particularly its dominant moral ideas.

    Why do we accept the budget-busting costs of a welfare state? Because it implements the moral ideal of self-sacrifice to the needy. Why do so few protest the endless regulatory burdens placed on businessmen? Because businessmen are pursuing their self-interest, which we have been taught is dangerous and immoral. Why did the government go on a crusade to promote "affordable housing," which meant forcing banks to make loans to unqualified home buyers? Because we believe people need to be homeowners, whether or not they can afford to pay for houses.

    (This important viewpoint is to be continued)

    Posted by Happy at 06/01/2009 @ 6:46pm

39. Continuation of:

    Is Rand Relevant?

    By YARON BROOK

    The message is always the same: "Selfishness is evil; sacrifice for the needs of others is good." But Rand said this message is wrong -- selfishness, rather than being evil, is a virtue. By this she did not mean exploiting others à la Bernie Madoff. Selfishness -- that is, concern with one's genuine, long-range interest -- she wrote, required a man to think, to produce, and to prosper by trading with others voluntarily to mutual benefit.

    Rand also noted that only an ethic of rational selfishness can justify the pursuit of profit that is the basis of capitalism -- and that so long as self-interest is tainted by moral suspicion, the profit motive will continue to take the rap for every imaginable (or imagined) social ill and economic disaster. Just look how our present crisis has been attributed to the free market instead of government intervention -- and how proposed solutions inevitably involve yet more government intervention to rein in the pursuit of self-interest.

    Rand offered us a way out -- to fight for a morality of rational self-interest, and for capitalism, the system which is its expression. And that is the source of her relevance today.

    Dr. Brook is president and executive director of the Ayn Rand Institute.

    ================================ Atlas Shrugged is quite a book in small fonts (paperback version).....well worth the time....budget a month. Hard-core or brain-ossified Libs won't be able to stand it....everybody else, this is a must-read! It's THAT timely in this, the Age of Magic!

    Posted by Happy at 06/01/2009 @ 6:50pm

40. And we keep gobbling up the party line, both parties, that China is changing. Why the hell should China change when Warren Buffet is busy flying over to China just to hire cheap labor for his car company? There is irony in that we are borrowing trillions from a communist country to kill millions of innocent people in the middle east and making more enemies than we will ever be able to appease or frighten with our nuclear bombs. Now we have our hero Geithner making himself a joke by going to China and telling therm to trust us their investments are safe with us. I

    Posted by julien38 at 06/01/2009 @ 7:25pm

41. And we keep gobbling up the party line, both parties, that China is changing. Why the hell should China change when Warren Buffet is busy flying over to China just to hire cheap labor for his car company? There is irony in that we are borrowing trillions from a communist country to kill millions of innocent people in the middle east and making more enemies than we will ever be able to appease or frighten with our nuclear bombs. Now we have our hero Geithner making himself a joke by going to China and telling therm to trust us their investments are safe with us. I realize that "we" are being labeled; the fringe, the far left, but insanity and self destruction isn't really an answer.

    Posted by julien38 at 06/01/2009 @ 7:29pm

42. And we keep gobbling up the party line, both parties, that China is changing. Why the hell should China change when Warren Buffet is busy flying over to China just to hire cheap labor for his car company? There is irony in that we are borrowing trillions from a communist country to kill millions of innocent people in the middle east and making more enemies than we will ever be able to appease or frighten with our nuclear bombs. Now we have our hero Geithner making himself a joke by going to China and telling them to trust us, their investments are safe with us. I realize that "we" are being labeled; the fringe, the far left, but insanity and self destruction isn't really an answer.

    Posted by julien38 at 06/01/2009 @ 7:30pm

43. Oh damn ignore the first two. Sorry

    Posted by julien38 at 06/01/2009 @ 7:34pm

44. Spending $50 billion of taxpayers money to close up to 2o factories is perhaps cheaper in the long run than the likelihood of continually pouring more taxpayers money into what are clearly unprofitable parts of GM's enterprise.

    Since when have process workers making cars or trucks been "highly skilled"? If Americans are willing to buy inferior and overpriced cars just to keep those process workers in jobs then crazy them. The world is a changing and we, same in Australia, are competing with the rising industrial giant China, other emerging SE Asian industrialised economies and soon with India slowly on the move in that direction.

    The solution is to retrain and employ former auto process workers where they don't become a burden on American taxpayers, either by direct subsidies or through the manufacture of more expensive products.

    The " green" car can just as easily and much more cheaply be made in Asia so it is dishonest to hold out the hope that it will save the American auto industry. Our government, last year, gave $6 billion to GM's profitable Holden company in Australia plus a few of the Japanese companies, manufacturing here, to develop a "green" car (to save car manufacturing here, so the government told us). The money has been gratefully received but the green car has been put on the back burner. That decoded means it will be developed and made in China or South East Asia, if it ever becomes more than a fleeting idea.

    The future of the "green" car depends on what happens at Copenhagen and its success in implementing GHG restrictions. That looks, right now, to signal a very shaky future for the "green" car.

    Posted by lrjones4 at 06/01/2009 @ 7:46pm

45. ================================ Atlas Shrugged is quite a book in small fonts (paperback version).....well worth the time....budget a month. Hard-core or brain-ossified Libs won't be able to stand it....everybody else, this is a must-read! It's THAT timely in this, the Age of Magic!

    Posted by Happy at 06/01/2009 @ 6:50pm

    Couldn't agree with you more Happ.

    Nothing ignites the Religious Right like a good old fashioned whiff of Ayn Randyism with its creative selfishness and well-known agnosticism. And, hence, the natural tension within the ol' GOP.

    Then just sit back and watch the sparks fly.

    Posted by schnellerheinz at 06/01/2009 @ 8:10pm

46. And I'm still loving my Buick with 217000 miles on 'er, and going strong.

    Don't like car payments much.

    Posted by schnellerheinz at 06/01/2009 @ 8:12pm

47. Go Red Wings.

    Posted by schnellerheinz at 06/01/2009 @ 8:12pm

48. When will liberals "get it"? Whatever the voters wanted, O'Bush was elected in November. Till the system (private funding of public elections, winner-take-all votes, barriers to ballot access, concentrated ownership of the media, etc.) is changed, the outcomes are almost certain to remain fundamentally the same. (The point is well illustrated in management guru W. Edwards Deming's Parable of the Red Beads.)

    Posted by fragen at 06/01/2009 @ 8:13pm

49. Rand offered us a way out -- to fight for a morality of rational self-interest, and for capitalism, the system which is its expression. And that is the source of her relevance today.

    Dr. Brook is president and executive director of the Ayn Rand Institute.

    Posted by Happy at 06/01/2009 @ 6:50pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Indeed.

    Mighty hard to cram all that individualism and self-interestedness into a political party which, among other things, is dominated by thought police who wish to tell people whom they can marry, for example.

    Posted by schnellerheinz at 06/01/2009 @ 8:19pm

50. Ain't no tent that big.

    Posted by schnellerheinz at 06/01/2009 @ 8:19pm

51. Nothing ignites the Religious Right like a good old fashioned whiff of Ayn Randyism.....

    Posted by schnellerheinz at 06/01/2009 @ 8:10pm

    Mighty hard to cram all that individualism and self-interestedness into a political party which, among other things, is dominated by thought police who wish to tell people whom they can marry, for example.

    Posted by schnellerheinz at 06/01/2009 @ 8:19pm

    By these two truly ignorant posts, you merely reveal your own shallowness.

    For your education, other than her calling card of individualism, Rand is a well-known atheist.....anti-mystic and things `supernatural'......NO chance the Religious Right, Left or Anywhere, will trumpet her.

    The closest "political party" for Randians, is the Libertarian Party.

    It's best one comes prepared if one chooses to open fire......you weren't!

    Posted by Happy at 06/01/2009 @ 9:57pm

52. Posted by Happy at 06/01/2009 @ 9:57pm

    That was schneller's point, HAPP.

    The "deal with the Devil" in the Republican Party is, that the libertarians will keep quiet about Randian atheism and the Religious Right will help push the "less taxes, less government" agenda.

    Problem is, what if the Randians start breaking their part of the deal and don't want any more Terri Schiavos or see nutjob "pro-lifers" targetting doctors, egged on by the RRs....and tell the ChrisCons to stuff their morality legislature and judicial activism?

    Look at the flap just over Sotomayor betwen your mentors Rush and Newt and an increasing percentage of the Congressional Repubs. That'd be a SMALL taste of what happens if the Libertarian GOP and the Religious Right GOP's fragile alliance disentegrates.

    Posted by Mask at 06/01/2009 @ 10:05pm

53. Since when have process workers making cars or trucks been "highly skilled"?....

    The " green" car can just as easily and much more cheaply be made in Asia so it is dishonest to hold out the hope that it will save the American auto industry.....

    Posted by lrjones4 at 06/01/2009 @ 7:46pm

    It seems so obvious, yet, it's the dirty little secret no one mentions! Assembly line work's efficiency depends on eye/hand coordination and no skill. To be sure, some UAW jobs are highly skilled when it comes to keeping the machinery humming and robots programmed.

    If anything, being on a poultry processing plant is far more grueling and ought to be higher paid than a UAW worker on a clean, ultra capital-intensive, modern assembly line.

    You hit a second home run hitting on the blind assumption by the Left that for "green" cars, somehow, outsourcing isn't possible or cost-effective.

    Posted by Happy at 06/01/2009 @ 10:09pm

54. SMALL taste of what happens if the Libertarian GOP and the Religious Right GOP's fragile alliance disentegrates.

    Posted by Mask at 06/01/2009 @ 10:05pm

    You, like the MSM, like to highlight the differences among elements of the Right while slighting the huge commonality among the Right. The Tea Party protest coverage (rather, non-coverage), made that clear....unsurprising.

    In the end analysis, "It's the Economy, Stupid!" is really the only thing that truly matters....everything else (on the Right), is just static made noisier by a dying MSM.

    Posted by Happy at 06/01/2009 @ 10:14pm

55. Posted by Happy at 06/01/2009 @ 10:09pm

    The machine programmers are a different kettle of fish and they and other technical staff shouldn't have much trouble moving to different enterprises. In my experience, the highly skilled work is outsourced, by our car manufacturers to relatively small tool and die making enterprises. Those tradespeople are the technically "highly skilled" that are always in demand across a wide range of industries.

    I guess, from the coordination aspect, retired ball game sports persons would do well on the production lines.

    (Think things may be starting to pick up. Our dollar, which experts claim is a good indicator of a strengthening (or declining) world manufacturing economy, has jumped to over 80 cents against the USD a gain of over 30% in the last month or so. It was at parity with the US dollar before the crash last year, so it is a pretty volatile currency that also tracks changes in commodity prices).

    Posted by lrjones4 at 06/02/2009 @ 12:12am

56. A sound argument can be made about the relevance of Ayn Rand's foundational statement in Atlas Shrugged as it pertains to the global economy in today's world. National boundaries in her day were more succinct... meaning that nations were 'more whole and complete' with respect to their overall economies. Though there was much trading done between sovereign nations, I'll wager that most countries were able to meet their own needs and that their economies reflected the needs of their people more closely than in today's outsourcing economic interdependence. When entire national economies become 'specialized', they become much more vulnerable to global macro-economic forces than Ayn Rand could have foreseen...

    Also, Atlas Shrugged was based on the fundamental assertion that industrialists rather than investors are the actual generating force that keeps national economies functioning optimally. A quick glance at the US economy tells us of a country that has gone far afield of Rand's foundational reprise.

    I'm of the opinion that the challenges our country faces right now can be clearly spotlighted through Rand's analysis of an America bereft of it's Industrial might... and though we may be ideologically squeamish about retooling into the future... with alternative 'this' and unproven 'that'... the fact remains that we are all standing on economic presumptions that have systematically disengaged our economy from the very industrialism that Ayn Rand promoted... thus leaving a gaping hole where true industrial innovation has been needed.

    And Mask... another place where the right wing is struggling to keep it together... is the backstage conflict between competitive industrial priorities... and giant military expenditures that have no economic criterion for fiscal returns...

    Posted by ttr at 06/02/2009 @ 12:51am

57. HOW LUCKY CAN WE BE TO HAVE SUCH BRILLIANT MINDS IN CHARGE OF OUR GREAT COUNTRY?

    Posted by YourJomamma at 06/01/2009 @ 12:21pm

    A few quotes from the Right....

    "Let us rid ourselves of the fiction that low oil prices are somehow good for the United States."- Dick Cheney

    "My belief is, we will, in fact be greeted as liberators."- Dick Cheney

    (Vice Presidents) "...They're in charge of the United States Senate, so if they want to they can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy..."- Sarah Palin

    "most of them...all of 'em...any of 'em."- Sarah Palin, when asked by Katie Couric which newspapers she regularly reads.

    "Michael Steele, You be da man! You be da man!"- Michelle "Crazy Eyess" Bachmann

    "As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Alaska"- Sarah Palin

    "I've been in the Bible every day since I've been the president."- George W. Bush

    "And they have no disregard for human life."- George W. Bush, on the brutality of Afghan fighters.

    "I remember meeting a mother of a child who was abducted by North Koreans right here in the Oval Office."- George W. Bush

    "Amigo! Amigo!"- George W. Bush, calling out to Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi at the G-8 Summit, 2008.

    "The future will be better tomorrow."- Dan Quayle

    "I was known as the chief graverobber of my state."- Dan Quayle

    "We understand the importance of having the bondage between the parent and the child."- Dan Quayle

    "The other day (the President) said, I know you've had some rough times, and I want to do something that will show the nation what faith I have in you, in your maturity and sense of responsibility. Would you like a puppy?"- Dan Quayle

    Posted by koroviev at 06/02/2009 @ 01:43am

58. Status Quobama

    Posted by puttch at 06/02/2009 @ 02:29am

59. The problem with the article is the absence of proposal.

    Criticism is obvious and easy.

    Posted by Richard Witty at 06/02/2009 @ 05:47am

60. Why did the government go on a crusade to promote "affordable housing," which meant forcing banks to make loans to unqualified home buyers? Because we believe people need to be homeowners, whether or not they can afford to pay for houses.

    (This important viewpoint is to be continued)

    Posted by Happy at 06/01/2009 @ 6:46pm

    You are completely ignorant of the facts. The home mortgage system we have was wholly owned by the Federal government until Nixon farmed it out to private companies. The current problem, loose lending rules, were the result of 30 years of relentless lobbying by the financial industry to further deregulate. They got it from the Bush regime and a republican controlled Congress. They created their environment, once they got it they proceeded to destroy the entire system that they make money from by telling people that they can afford to borrow more than they actually could afford. My advice is to stay as far away from right-wing info-tainment as you can.

    Posted by Milhaus at 06/02/2009 @ 06:54am

61. What I don't understand is why don't this flippin idiots at GM, Chrysler and Ford can't think outside the box for once. These business weiner heads love to use acronyms and buzz words, but when they truly should think outside the box, the block heads just can't cut it.

    Take this new rail system that needs to be built. Have any of these car companies thought about possibly switching over to that type of industry? A different client base, but then again, the same client base....at least as far as the U.S. is concerned (the U.S. workers who need to get to work one way or the other). Since the fed now owns 65% of GM perhaps the fed should start acting like a majority stock holder and position GM for the future, not the past which was the automobile industry.

    If oil truly is a shrinking commodity, then it would be wise to get out of an industry dependent upon a foreign product that tends to dominate the world market and drive prices through the ceiling anytime OPEC or the asshole speculators feel the urge to turn a larger profit.

    If the car companies changed their products to high speed rail system cars, tracks and stations , the U.S. consumer would be more free from the car/oil dependency would be one huge step in turning our economy around, rebuilding our infrastructure, and giving the third finger to the ME oil countries all at the same time.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 06/02/2009 @ 07:16am

62. Posted by Happy at 06/01/2009 @ 10:14pm

    Really, HAPP? You think the disagreement between Rush and Newt...and Cornyn, Steele, and Graham is just a "tiff? Read the new piece in the New York Times on a coalition of conservative groups DEMANDING that Senate Repubs FILIBUSTER Sotomayor....while Jeff Sessions, who'd be point man on such a filibuster, said

    "nope".

    Posted by Mask at 06/02/2009 @ 07:49am

63. Snowball, First, the Japanese engineers are no better than their American counterparts. I will try to address your points one by one.

    A couple problems with your plan:

    a) Americans like driving cars and won't ride trains (outside of the Bay Area at least)

    This isn't true. I happen to ride the bus with a lot of Americans who are tired of paying high insurance rates, high gas prices and being stuck in traffic. Take a trip to D.C. Those folks get to work without having to deal with traffic congestion. It's a myth that Americans demand to drive to work....we just don't have any other alternatives due to the automobile lobby groups over the years.

    b) What resources do your high-speed trains run on again? Electricity.

    c) American capitalists apparently don't know how to actually 'make' things, so you'd need to spend a ton on Japanese engineers (in Yen).

    I would stack American engineers up against the Japanese or German engineers. They send enough of their students here for advanced engineering degrees.

    Other things we could "have them make":

    - Wind Turbines - Flywheels (for storing/amortizing over cloudy days) - Steel nuke reactor vessels

    The American people have bought into a bunch of B.S. that foreign engineering is better than ours. Business decisions at the top levels decided to outsource engineering and/manufacturing on a profit basis meaning they could get a product produced cheaper overseas. That doesn't equate to better. I would maintain that the technology you see in the Japanese cars is probably as much American technology as it is Japanese technology.

    As far as the American car companies on U.S. soil, they didn't want to for out the bucks to retool to maximize profits. Now they're broke.

    Posted by snowball666 at 06/02/2009 @ 07:27am

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 06/02/2009 @ 07:50am

64. Retrain the autoworkers--TO DO WHAT? Where are the jobs?

    John Nichols has it absolutely right. The smart guys either truly believed that a "post industrial economy" was viable, or they are really truly trying to turn us into a nation of nobles and peasants.

    The reason the poultry processors make less than the autoworkers is because they are largely indentured servant immigrants that aren't unionized. And why shouldn't workers make decent money when times are good? You'd rather see the money go to the execs and Wall Street?

    And Ford is NOT PART OF THE BAILOUT. Repeat after me--FORD IS NOT PART OF THE BAILOUT. Don't conflate Ford with GM/Chrysler.

    Posted by VEH at 06/02/2009 @ 08:33am

65. by snowball666 at 06/02/2009 @ 06:55am...

    Read it again... Lucifer...;^)

    You are now being ignored.

    Posted by ttr at 06/02/2009 @ 08:35am

66. Posted by ttr at 06/02/2009 @ 08:35am

    So snow DARES to criticize Saint Ayn and the "Holy Book"...and you put him on Ignore?

    Posted by Mask at 06/02/2009 @ 08:41am

67. Retrain the autoworkers--TO DO WHAT? Where are the jobs?

    Posted by VEH at 06/02/2009 @ 08:33am

    1.5 Billion in China - 1.1 Billion in India -0.83 Billion in Europe- 0.3 Billion in the US.

    Not a bad sort of market with about another 3 Billion in assorted places around the world all hell bent on development and you ask where are the jobs?

    The question that you should be asking is where are the great American entrepreneurs with great ideas and enterprise building abilities that are necessary to generate jobs for Americans?

    A world of open and free market is there for the taking if you are smart enough to see it and grab the opportunities.

    Posted by lrjones4 at 06/02/2009 @ 09:06am

68. We'd be silly not to try to learn from them.

    Posted by snowball666 at 06/02/2009 @ 08:56am

    True enough. But that doesn't mean we have to bring a ton of them in. There's a term called reverse engineering. If there's one thing the Japanese are/were good at, that's it. We need to reverse engineer their system as well as the European high speed rail systems and pick the best applications from both if possible.

    The demand for electricity would be met by nuclear power or coal power plants (once again, more jobs for American workers in building these plants and maintaining them). I don't forsee using solar energy nor wind energy to run a system like that because the power requirement would be massive. Call it a necessary evil if you will, but it still beats using petroleum. We need petroleum for other uses besides burning it up to move a car.

    Back to your comment about petrochemical engineers. Being an electrical engineer myself, I don't where our engineering capability in the U.S. doesn't stack up. It's more of a question of investing in this countries infrastructure. FDR had the public works projects, Eisenhower had the highway system, if Obama is smart, he'll look at what his predecessors did and take a disadvantage and turn it into an advantage to move this country forward, not backward.

    We Americans had better start thinking for ourselves and start solving our own problems or we're in some seriously big trouble if we can't.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 06/02/2009 @ 09:21am

69. A world of open and free market is there for the taking if you are smart enough to see it and grab the opportunities.

    Posted by lrjones4 at 06/02/2009 @ 09:06am

    Problem with that is that the economies of these countries are different. American made products would be too expensive in 3rd world countries and developing countries the same as Japanese and European made products.

    The answer is more to sell within your own economy and trade with countries that have raw materials you need. Trading raw materials should be the way we go instead of shipping materials to 3rd world countries to be made by slave labor and sweatshops. That sucks for them, and doesn't help us either. This world market as it stands only helps the wealthy get wealthier and screws everyone else in between.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 06/02/2009 @ 09:26am

70. If you've run out of ideas here's something you should be able to do well. Building new centres of learning-for-export could kill two or more birds with the one stone. Auto workers to builder's labourers and technologists to lecturers. The only limit is your imagination comrades:

    "Booming export industry can't be ignored"

    In an opinion piece in today's Financial Review Swinburne Vice-Chancellor Ian Young argues International education should be recognised by as an outstanding resource for the nation:

    "In these challenging financial times, it is interesting to reflect on the industry which, within the next year, could become Australia's largest export industry – international education.

    "Despite its financial success, international education is seldom seen as a major industry for Australia. There is still the misconception that it is an "unfortunate artefact of an under-funded education system", which forced universities to recruit top-up fee paying students from overseas.

    "Yet 2008 Australian Bureau of Statistics data showed that international education generated $14.1 billion of export income for Australia, making it our third largest export industry behind coal and iron ore. In 2008, international higher education numbers grew by 9.5 per cent and first half commencements for 2009 appear to be up by approximately 20 per cent.

    Longer term, one would expect the global financial crisis to affect numbers, but indications point to solid long-term growth. It would seem that Asian families, the major sources for international students to Australia, do not consider education as a discretionary expense. Rather, it is an investment in the future and the last item to cut in tough times.

    http://tinyurl.com/lgfk9r

    Posted by lrjones4 at 06/02/2009 @ 09:29am

71. There will be a small or at least not very large fee, relative to the of potential market, for any further ideas.

    Posted by lrjones4 at 06/02/2009 @ 09:33am

72. Trading raw materials should be the way we go instead of shipping materials to 3rd world countries to be made by slave labor and sweatshops. That sucks for them, and doesn't help us either. This world market as it stands only helps the wealthy get wealthier and screws everyone else in between.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 06/02/2009 @ 09:26am

    Wolfie, China has the goal of getting all its people up to the same sort of living standard that we in the West enjoy. Ditto for India. The last government in India stated it thought it was entitled to the same per capita energy consumption as the West. That has implications for your nuclear industry. From memory Bush did a deal on nuclear energy with India (?) but I know both India and China are trying to buy Australian uranium, on long term contracts, for their energy needs.

    This whole area of energy technology is something that America should be able to turn into export dollars. Over here some years ago "sunset" and "sunrise" industries were identified. The experts didn't always get it right but it led to identifying what were likely to be growth industries and providers of employment. Maybe that isn't a bad sort of approach to take to optimise employment through the booms and busts that will always be with us.

    Posted by lrjones4 at 06/02/2009 @ 09:59am

73. There will be a small or at least not very large fee, relative to the of potential market, for any further ideas.

    Posted by lrjones4 at 06/02/2009 @ 09:33am

    LR, I think the U.S. higher education system is the best resource the U.S. has. It's still a place where other countries try to mimic what we do. We should take advantage of this as we have in the past.

    Of course international studies helps with foreign business transactions. I worked and an engineering firm that didn't utilize it's own people worth a damn (decisions by our business degreed folks of course). They went out and hired a bunch of marketing jackasses to go to countries like the Ukraine, South Korea, etc. while we had people on the assembly line who could speak the languages fluently and knew all of the customs of their former countries.

    So, these business folks figured it would be better to hire used car salesmen types that talk smooth in English versus people who really knew the products and could speak the local language fluently. People wonder why our businesses don't do well and have been floundering? Arrogant and stupid business managers is the answer.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 06/02/2009 @ 10:00am

74. Wolfie, China has the goal of getting all its people up to the same sort of living standard that we in the West enjoy. Ditto for India.

    LR, I agree. The problem is that U.S. businessmen are trying to bring the standard of living for Americans down to where the People of China and India are. From a business stand point, that's the only answer.

    You can't sell to an economy that is deflated compared to your own. Now, the U.S. has tools to put imports on a more level playing field called import tarrifs, but everytime that's brought up the neocon idiots start yelling about protectionism. Damn straight it's protectionism. Until economies are dead even, and it's an even playing field, tarrifs should be used. The people bitching about tarrifs are the ones making money from the sweatshops.

    Like I said earlier, in the end, it doesn't help the average American nor the worker in the other country. It serves only to enrich the assholes taking advantage of cheap slave labor from overseas markets.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 06/02/2009 @ 10:08am

75. by Mask at 06/02/2009 @ 08:41am...

    Cute... Where did I mention 'The Holy Book'?...

    Saint Ayn? Mask... you are on a role this morning. I succeed in finding a healthy analysis of a vastly popular ideologist that pertains to today's world... and you make some insinuative speculation based on hasty assumptions thatat their very basis are designed to protect you from the rigors of your own assessment? How original...;^)

    Though you are usually somewhat snarky, Mask... I find your heart to be in the right place most of the time. I like you.

    Snewbie$$$ has issues with consistency and kindness...

    Posted by ttr at 06/02/2009 @ 10:16am

76. ttr, the cultification of Ms Rand is quite obvious.

    She is the Alpha and Omega of die-hard Objectivists, and from "Fountainhead" to "Shrugged" to "Anthem" to "Living"...neither her nor her Scripture can be disparaged.

    She's the L. Ron Hubbard of libertarian radicals....heheh

    Posted by Mask at 06/02/2009 @ 10:27am

77. Posted by Wolfgang1 at 06/02/2009 @ 10:00am

    I think all that is true. Some of the best entrepreneurs in our country still couldn't even spell university let alone ever darkened the door of one as a student but they know how to build strong prosperous businesses. A few now employing many thousands started off in their backyards. Perhaps too many businesses have number crunchers at the top that lack all those native skills that tend to be fairly rare.

    America has a reputation for elite University education and that should be utilised to the full as an export earner but the writer of that article heads up what really is a "university" of technology, that is better at training technologists than producing academics. We have 3 universities in Melbourne that are world class in academic terms and about half a dozen that are down the scale a bit. So here and in the other states there are plenty of places for a range of overseas students with varying intellectual abilities and interests.

    We have a lot of full-time Indian students about 48,000 from memory, who are on temporary visas in my state of about 4 million, all paying good "export" dollars for their education. Then they add to the economy by other spending in it. Most come from wealthy Indian families who can easily afford to send their sons and daughters here.

    Posted by lrjones4 at 06/02/2009 @ 10:39am

78. Intersesting thread...

    but I will not be buying one of the "Peoples Cars"..

    Posted by YourJomamma at 06/02/2009 @ 11:17am

79. Posted by YourJomamma at 06/02/2009 @ 11:17am

    MAASCH you make your living by importing items from China, so not really surprising you aren't a "Buy American" kind of guy, huh?

    Posted by Mask at 06/02/2009 @ 11:31am

80. MAASCH you make your living by importing items from China, so not really surprising you aren't a "Buy American" kind of guy, huh?

    Posted by Mask at 06/02/2009 @ 11:31am

    I make my living exporting TO China....

    I import nothing from China... one of the parent companys I used to work for imported micro pavee diamond piece work, which is not done here...and that was a small part of the line...

    but I make my real money selling to China.. All American made, designed,assembled(non union of course)and shipped...and we use highly skilled workers(engineers) to build our product...and they are paid on the work they do and not how long they were there...

    You keep making the same incorrect assumptions, Mask.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 06/02/2009 @ 11:47am

81. I just saw a new book on "Your World Today" CNNI with Jim Clancy that may be interesting. It is called "The Best Way To Rob A Bank Is To Own It" by William Black!

    Posted by pjcasey at 06/02/2009 @ 12:17pm

82. Posted by YourJomamma at 06/02/2009 @ 11:47am

    Cool...so would you like to see a big investment in companies such as yours? to provide jobs to Americans?

    Posted by Mask at 06/02/2009 @ 12:47pm

83. An intelligent middleclass enriching itself upon the misery of laboring men, a rich nobility doing whatever will maximize profit -- someone start a revolt and count me in.

    Posted by Alabama.John at 06/01/2009 @ 12:48pm

    George Will made an excellent point several years ago: The most significant health issue for America's poor is obesity. Good luch getting them off the couch, much less to the revoloution.

    Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 06/02/2009 @ 1:21pm

84. I see the "conservatives" are spending a lot of time trying to discredit The Nation and its readers here in the comments section. Good. Who knows, maybe they'll learn something -- otherwise, this is a great way for them to waste the rest of their lives.

    Posted by ConservoDem at 06/02/2009 @ 1:50pm

85. Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 06/02/2009 @ 1:21pm

    And now Will frets over....dungerees.

    LOL

    Posted by Mask at 06/02/2009 @ 2:21pm

86. Posted by YourJomamma at 06/02/2009 @ 11:47am

    Cool...so would you like to see a big investment in companies such as yours? to provide jobs to Americans?

    Posted by Mask at 06/02/2009 @ 12:47pm

    In due time and not by govt hacks. with union promises to pay back...

    Plus we don't want to lose control over our own company....and we want to keep the profits away from those who just know what will work if only ...

    Posted by YourJomamma at 06/02/2009 @ 3:33pm

87. It's best one comes prepared if one chooses to open fire......you weren't!

    Posted by Happy at 06/01/2009 @ 9:57pm

    ??????????????????????????????????????

    Posted by schnellerheinz at 06/02/2009 @ 4:28pm

88. >>>the reshaping of General Motors by the Obama administration's auto-industry task force as a courageous or groundbreaking "new" initiative to "save" domestic automaking. <<<

    NICHOLS,

    You are WAY off base on this one!

    How many factories do you think would close and workers laid off if GM had NOT done the deal?

    HINT: A WHOLE LOT MORE

    Posted by Metteyya at 06/02/2009 @ 4:57pm

89. The "free market" short term gain mentality has been foisted on this nation for years! Those minions that have worshiped at the alter of Ayn Rand suckered everyone into believing the hype, spin, lies that as the wealthy made money it would trickle down! That is the model that this nation has been following, and it is this mindset that has 48 million people without health insurance, it is this model that has 10--15 million unemployed, this model has outsourced millions of well paying jobs to lower wage countries!

    This model is an anathema to a functioning society! This model should be buried for good - this model is what they moved away from during the Depression! And the weasels came back stronger than ever. Want to help GM - first fire the HIGHLY OVER PAID EXECUTIVES, next bring in new engineering blood to redesign better cars and bring down the price, and finally - put caps on the executive pay and stop those GOLDEN PARACHUTES!

    Posted by Spiritgirl2 at 06/02/2009 @ 5:38pm

90. http://badpaintingsofbarackobama.com/

    Posted by hsuBfools at 06/02/2009 @ 6:15pm

91. Posted by YourJomamma at 06/02/2009 @ 3:33pm

    What "new industry that can export stuff to China", will the evil Gub'mint own, MAASCH?

    Posted by Mask at 06/02/2009 @ 7:12pm

92. .....as the wealthy made money it would trickle down!

    Posted by Spiritgirl2 at 06/02/2009 @ 5:38pm

    The wealthy that drops $200 for a Friday night dinner supports more jobs or the poor that drops $15 at Kentucky Fried Chicken? How about the pay of the 4-star restaurant vs. the KFC workers?

    The wealthy that buys new Corvettes supports more jobs or the poor that buys an 8-yr old Hyundai?

    The wealthy that spends hundreds of thousands, often repeatedly, decorating their homes support more jobs or the poor who slaps $20 tarps on their leaky roofs?

    The wealthy that donates to charities support more jobs or those receiving the charity?

    The wealthy that actually underwrites risky, unproven new businesses supports more jobs or the poor living paycheck to paycheck or on Gubber handouts?

    Don't forget, your Messiah loves to play the wealthy role, with a kitty of $787 billion as his first `pot' to trickle down....but only to his favored `poor'.

    Posted by Happy at 06/02/2009 @ 8:30pm

93. Sorry for the delay, Mask... there seem to be gremlins in the internet access dept. who are diligently pursuing political agendas...;^)

    How you can object to using strict analysis of Rand that points out the partisan misrepresentations of her message by the cultification process you mentioned is beyond me... She makes some excellent points about incentives and economics... and though her overall message is easily labeled and pigeon-holed... using her works to make legitimate points to her most ardent 'followers' makes good sense.

    If I quote FDR, or Marx, or Reagan, or Plato... it does not follow that I openly embrace their entire ideology... and you know it.

    Discounting Rand's 'radical' evaluation of proper Capitalist activity... makes no sense... precisely because of the ease with which her meanings can be misinterpreted.

    A fundamental discrepancy lies in the failure to separate true industrialization from military concerns... and in today's world... the differences are blurred even more.

    C'mon, Mask... place the stereotypes aside... and dare to address my point...;^)

    Posted by ttr at 06/02/2009 @ 8:44pm

94. by Metteyya at 06/02/2009 @ 4:57pm...

    Sad but true... and somehow, many people forget the previous administration when they are looking for someone to blame the current crises on...

    ...how convenient...;^)... but wrong they are.

    Posted by ttr at 06/02/2009 @ 8:54pm

95. Total number of jobs lost by closures of GM plants, dealerships, related facilities:

    240,000! I'd say closer to 3/4 to 1 million at least given most have families. Plus the impact on the velocity of money earned and spent for goods and services, generating even more money. All of this...a gigantic impact on the US economy.

    Too bad Nichols fails to mention GMAC, the financing arm of GM which many analysts point to as the back breaking financial debt that broke GM automobile development and manufacturing...once GMAC was sold, GM dealerships had no financial arm to loan car loans to consumers.

    In the Obamanation Rattner Hedge Fund GM ground-down, the banks made off with the pension funds of hundreds of thousands of employees and pensioners! In violation of US statute! Grand Theft of a scale heretofore unknown in the US of A!

    And barely a f'ing PEEP! And not a one on the Obamanation "Auto Task Force" knows SQUAT about automobiles or motor vehicles! Welcome to 'Serfdom USA'...everybody's gone serfdom... serfdom USA! How sweet! Enjoy!

    Posted by skyblu5555 at 06/02/2009 @ 8:55pm

96. Total number of jobs lost by closures of GM plants, dealerships, related facilities:

    240,000! I'd say closer to 3/4 to 1 million at least given most have families. Plus the impact on the velocity of money earned and spent for goods and services, generating even more money. All of this...a gigantic impact on the US economy.

    Too bad Nichols fails to mention GMAC, the financing arm of GM which many analysts point to as the back breaking financial debt that broke GM automobile development and manufacturing...once GMAC was sold, GM dealerships had no financial arm to loan car loans to consumers.

    In the Obamanation Rattner Hedge Fund GM ground-down, the banks made off with the pension funds of hundreds of thousands of employees and pensioners! In violation of US statute! Grand Theft of a scale heretofore unknown in the US of A!

    And barely a f'ing PEEP! And not a one on the Obamanation "Auto Task Force" knows SQUAT about automobiles or motor vehicles! Welcome to 'Serfdom USA'...everybody's gone serfdom... serfdom USA! SWEET! Non?

    Posted by skyblu5555 at 06/02/2009 @ 8:57pm

97. by Happy at 06/02/2009 @ 8:30pm...

    Though I agree with the spirit of your post... I must point out that when the wealthy make risky financial deals across the boards and around the world the norm by deregulating the investment industry... the corresponding 'crash' does an amazing amount of semi-permanent damage to the 'lower half' of the economic spectrum.

    So... you are once again covering up a glaring ideological flaws with half truths... and yellow brick roads...

    Like we all seem to... a too bit much...;^)

    Posted by ttr at 06/02/2009 @ 9:06pm

98. ....I must point out that when the wealthy make risky financial deals across the boards and around the world....

    Posted by ttr at 06/02/2009 @ 9:06pm

    The "wealthy" are smart people, but not entirely infallible.......periodic "crashes" are inevitable and they should not be bailed out.....especially with `future' liabilities on everybody's children or paid through general inflation. But, we don't have a true free market and Gubbers contributed heavily to the depth of the Great Recession.....thanks, Barney ole buddy!

    You know the saying....when China was truly poor...when we (=our economy) sneeze, they get a cold.

    The soundness and easily observed fact of trickle-down economics are so logical,....it's one of those things I just don't `get' why educated economists tried to deny it....dragging w/them, folks like Spriritgirl2.

    The wealthy are what they are either by birth, smarts, cunning or have `connections'....sometimes, all or none of those!

    Posted by Happy at 06/02/2009 @ 9:22pm

99. ..."periodic 'crashes' are inevitable"...

    Not so fast... Happy...

    I feel an 'intelligent design' trickling down from on high... and we owe it to ourselves and our posterity to reduce this 'tendency' permanently to foreseeable parameters...

    ...because the damage done to well meaning people who play by the rules is rather more severe than most of us are willing to admit.

    It is precisely the gluts that make no sense to the true capitalist in the long term... because they adversely effect the bottom line in irrational ways... leading to unsubstantiated profit taking at the hands of the industrially uninformed, causing deep rifts in the proclivity of true productivity.

    Government must play its crucial role in stablizing the macro-economic swings of the perpetually swinging markets... in order to guarentee the vast majority of Americans that civilized 'peace of mind' that is crucial to healthy happy growing families.

    I have no qualms with making the investors work a little harder for the gains they seek... but the poor are already strapped, and most children are poor.

    Inequality ought not to be inevitable.

    Posted by ttr at 06/02/2009 @ 9:55pm

100. http://badpaintingsofbarackobama.com/ Posted by hsuBfools at 06/02/2009 @ 6:15pm

     awesome!

     are any of those yours?

     i especially like the one with the unicorn.

     Posted by frosty zoom at 06/02/2009 @ 10:37pm

101. Government must play its crucial role in stablizing the macro-economic swings of the perpetually swinging markets...

     Inequality ought not to be inevitable.

     Posted by ttr at 06/02/2009 @ 9:55pm

     The Gubbers "must play its crucial role"? Problem is, they have horrible timing! Cause? How about politics?

     How long has the general problems of loose lending been known? How "crucial" was the alarms sounded by Repubs and John McCain treated? Did Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac have a few aces up their sleeves greased with mega bucks?

     We just have to respectfully disagree! I have NO faith that the Gubbers will ever, I mean, ever, deflect a serious looming problem.......only when all hell breaks loose, can the Gubbers act.

     And when the Gubbers do act, as w/Magic's pork bill, auto bailouts/robbery, outrageous budgets, my lack of faith gets reinforced even more.

     Why shouldn't inequality be inevitable? I can't expect my children to be able to dunk b-balls or block 280-lb defensive ends.

     Someday, likely toward the second half of this century, we may well be able to, or perhaps forced to, program the human embryo's IQ within some society-set range.......with special permission, perhaps at some price, not necessarily of money, to create super/genius babies or future Kobe Bryants. Until then, inequality IS inevitable.

     Posted by Happy at 06/02/2009 @ 11:18pm

102. O.K. Happy... there are limits to the equality equation... and diversity can be a strength... but your general attitude about government is a self fulfilling prophesy to the extent that one must first believe that the state can steady the markets before one will be able to take the 'learning curve' seriously. Call it faith...

     ...faith in Man's ability to evolve... on a global scale...

     ...and take an active part in that evolution with all the thinking we can muster.

     Many people are up to the task already...

     It is logical to try... and imperative for us as a species seeking to survive on this rather small planet with it's rapidly changing biosphere... changing as a result of our lifestyle choices and ambitions.

     We hold the scepter... we hold the key...

     Posted by ttr at 06/03/2009 @ 01:04am

103. Meanwhile Lockheed Martin is going full steam ahead building the joint strike fighter at 83 million dollars each.

     Much more important to have killing machines than cruising machines. Says a lot about the type of country we really are.

     The F 35, joint strike fighter looks to be the weapon of choice far into the future.

     Perhaps the laid off auto workers can put together planes. Is that the plan?

     Posted by guitarsandmore805 at 06/03/2009 @ 06:42am

104. Posted by ttr at 06/02/2009 @ 8:54pm

     It just seemed like a REAL quick leap to the Ignore butteon for snowball, simply because he said something "disparaging" against Ms. Rand.

     Posted by Mask at 06/03/2009 @ 08:35am

105. Mask... I was sure you had collected and saved my post... a little over a month ago...

     Things are looking up... Have a great day!

     Posted by ttr at 06/03/2009 @ 08:57am

106. Since I first brought up Rand this thread....good read:

     Rand's Atlas Is Shrugging With a Growing Load

     Commentary by Amity Shlaes

     June 2 (Bloomberg) -- Imagine a novel of more than a thousand pages, published half a century ago. The author doesn't have a talk-radio show and has been dead for 27 years.

     As for the storyline, it is beyond dated: Humorless executives fight with humorless public officials over an industry that is, today, almost irrelevant to the U.S. economy - - railroads. The prose itself is a disconcerting mixture of philosophy, industrial policy, and bodice-ripping: "The wind blew her hair to blend with his. She knew why he had wanted to walk through the mountains tonight."

     In short, you would think "Atlas Shrugged" might be long forgotten.

     Instead, Ayn Rand's novel is remembered more than ever. This year the book is selling at a faster rate than last year. Last year, sales were about 200,000, higher than any year before that, including 1957, when the book was published.

     Some assumed the libertarian philosopher would fall from view when the Berlin Wall fell. Or that at least there would be a sense of mission accomplished. One Rand fan, former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, wrote in his memoir that he regretted Rand hadn't lived until 1989 or 1990. She'd missed the collapse of communism that she had so often predicted.

     But "Atlas Shrugged" is becoming a political "Harry Potter" because Rand shone a spotlight on a problem that still exists: Not pre-1989 Soviet communism, but 2009-style state capitalism. Rand depicted government and companies colluding in the name of economic rescue at the expense of the entrepreneur. That entrepreneur is like the titan Atlas who carries the rest of the world on his shoulders -- until he doesn't...

     Posted by Happy at 06/03/2009 @ 10:03am

107. Back Ache

     You get the feeling plenty of Atlases are shrugging these days, in part because their tax burden is getting heavier. It's interesting to compare sales of "Atlas Shrugged," provided by the Ayn Rand Institute, to Internal Revenue Service distribution tables.

     In 1986, a year when "Atlas Shrugged" sold between 60,000 and 80,000 copies, the top 1 percent of earners paid 26 percent of the income tax. By 2000, that 1 percent was paying 37 percent, and "Atlas Shrugged" sales were at 120,000. By 2006, the top 1 percent carried 40 percent of the burden.

     Yet President Barack Obama has made it clear he would like to see the rich pay a greater share. Anyone irked at that prospect can find consolation in Rand's fantasy, in which the most valued professionals evaporate from the work place because of such demands.

     Sounding Weird

     The hard-money monologue of Rand's copper king, Francisco d'Anconia, used to sound weird. Who even thought about gold in the early 1990s? Now, D'Anconia's lecture on the unreliable dollar sounds like it could have been scripted by Zhou Xiaochuan, or some other furious Chinese central banker:

     "Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it bounces, marked, ‘Account overdrawn.'"

     Other "Atlas Shrugged" characters are likewise relevant: Orren Boyle of Associated Steel, one of the corrupt businessmen, is so skilled at anticipating what government will do that he could have taught Jeff Immelt a few tricks. Wesley Mouch, the Washington fringe-character-turned-politician who unexpectedly makes his way to center stage, recalls Timothy Geithner...

     Posted by Happy at 06/03/2009 @ 10:05am

108. ...Geithner at Treasury in his early days.

     Game of Pretend

     Rand knew that government tends to drive the most- productive economic figures away even as it pretends to utilize them. Today's shortage of primary care doctors serves as an example. Various administrations, Democratic and Republican, have tried to nudge more medical students into primary care. Young doctors simply haven't complied. That is in part because of the higher compensation of specialties. But it is also because the great charm of being a primary care doctor -- autonomy to work in a range of areas -- has been removed.

     Rand foresaw this: "Let them discover the kind of doctors that their system will now produce," says one of her characters. "It is not safe to place their lives in the hands of a man whose life they have throttled."

     Long before managed-care existed, Rand was describing doctors' frustration with it.

     Most compelling is Rand's understanding of how politicians' lack of imagination can kill economies. Of all American governors, Arnold Schwarzenegger of California is the one who most resembles Rand's outsized characters.

     Missing Gene

     Yet Schwarzenegger seems to be missing the Rand gene. His policies are all pain and no growth. As the Randerati have been quick to note, California's uncompetitive treatment of film production is driving Hollywood out of California. Yet Schwarzenegger moved disappointingly late to sign legislation that would even begin to address that problem.

     Rand's persistent heroine Dagny Taggart lectures a public official, but substitute Schwarzenegger for the official and the dialogue still makes sense:

     Posted by Happy at 06/03/2009 @ 10:07am

109. Dagny: "Start decontrolling."

     Schwarzenegger: "Huh?"

     Dagny: "Start lifting taxes and removing controls."

     Schwarzenegger: "Oh no, no, no, that's out of the question."

     Dagny: "Out of whose question?"

     In short, it's time for all of us in policy land to tip our collective hat -- though she detested collective anythings -- to Ayn Rand. Politics today is proving dramatic enough to change even literary tastes.

     (Amity Shlaes, senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, is a Bloomberg News columnist. The opinions expressed are her own.)

     Posted by Happy at 06/03/2009 @ 10:08am

110. NAFTA and CAFTA. My Senator voted against both. Feingold fortold this very problem. Those Union busting legislations did the whole country in. It reduced American middle class workers to the equals of malasysian childern with no rights as workers. Yes, cheaper goods but for how long? Now Americans can not afford to buy what they once made. We screwed our selves in the name of the short buck. It is time to re-legislate for American. Oddly enough, I think this would be a bi-partisan effort.

     Posted by prairiepress at 06/03/2009 @ 10:17am

111. "but I will not be buying one of the "Peoples Cars"..

     maasch, and others, seem to see these bailouts and buyouts as some sort of 'power grab,' rather than what they really are: banks and large corporations begging the government to help them with loans and what not.

     it makes perfect sense for the government, in exchange, to make certain demands of the company.

     does anyone here honestly believe that had obama not inherited a fiscal catastrophe he would have sought to buy out General Motors?

     Posted by darladoon at 06/03/2009 @ 10:18am

112. If only the irked and the evaporators were the SAME people, Happy, but no one misses Keating, Milken, Lay, Madoff, or Cassano Jr do they?

     Posted by snowball666 at 06/03/2009 @ 11:34am

     Why don't you ask Canada if they miss the thousands of doctors and actuaries and engineers working in the US instead of in Canada?

     Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 06/03/2009 @ 12:04pm

113. So, Happ brought up Ayn Rand and "Atlas Shrugged?. I never read it, but am familiar with libertarian philosophy just the same.

     Here's a suggested title for those who disagree with Ms. Rand. My wife got me "Predictibly Irrational". It is a book concerned with behavioral finance.

     I'm only half way through it, but the author makes a reasonable case for government intervention in the pricing of food, housing, healthcare, etc. because free market theory is predicated on premise that market participants act in a rationally self-interested manner; however, this premise is clearly flawed because people are not completely rational.

     There's also discussion on the irrationality of procrastination, which is ingrained numan nature. He posits the government should mandate preventive care because human nature is to procrasitnate on the most important and cost effective health care.

     There is also an interesting chapter or social norms verses market norms.

     http://www.amazon.com/Predictably-Irrational- Revised-Expanded-Decisions/dp/0061854549/ ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1244049163&sr=1-1

     Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 06/03/2009 @ 12:20pm

114. That doesn't sound like a 'Strike' as much as a desire for higher pay. Following the money-supply isn't evidence of nobility or genius.

     Posted by snowball666 at 06/03/2009 @ 12:13pm

     Having read Atlas Shrugged, I can tell you haven't!

     Canadians escaping to the US are as much on `Strike' (against Canada) as those Atlas producers who disappeared to Galt's Valley in Rand's book!

     BTW, that hidden valley in the Rockies, is sometimes referred to as HAPPY Valley......heheheheh!

     Posted by Happy at 06/03/2009 @ 4:31pm

115. While I'm at it......

     Back on April 15 at the Houston Tea Party downtown, I carried around a large poster board with a photo of Magic, at poster's top, I taped the word, 8" size, "Looter"....straight out of Atlas Shrugged.

     4~5 times, I was asked to pose w/my sign for photos.....alas, I didn't find any posted online anywhere in the following couple of days.....but I became some folk's `home' collection......LOL!

     Posted by Happy at 06/03/2009 @ 4:39pm

116. Our government cannot turn around the downslide our economy is in, unless we begin to recognize that our workers should be protected from competitition with workers from other countries where wages are unfairly low. The arrogant and selfish investors who have pushed for lower wages and removal of protections for our workers are in the same league as the robber barons of the 1800's and the Sheriff of Nottingham, as described in the book "Robin Hood."

     Regards Prescott

     Posted by prescott at 06/03/2009 @ 8:40pm

117. Posted by snowball666 at 06/04/2009 @ 08:27am

     I haven't responded to your lame attacks for some time....as you (now) pretend not to know the difference between my kind of `loot' and Magic's.

     Case in point: On DNDN, now around $25/share, where does my `loot' (ie gains) comes from? The poor? Other hard-working folks? Don't need to answer....just calling you on your lame BS.

     Posted by Happy at 06/04/2009 @ 11:04am

118. first fire the HIGHLY OVER PAID EXECUTIVES, next bring in new engineering blood to redesign better cars and bring down the price, and finally - put caps on the executive pay and stop those GOLDEN PARACHUTES!

     Posted by Spiritgirl2 at 06/02/2009 @ 5:38pm

     Couldn't agree more!

     Posted by Wolfgang1 at 06/05/2009 @ 12:59pm