The Beat

Feingold Beats Bush In Patriot Act Fight

posted by John Nichols on 12/16/2005 @ 3:19pm

Four years ago, U.S. Senator Russ Feingold distinguished himself as the Senate's premier defender of the Constitution, when he cast the chamber's sole vote against enactment of the Patriot Act. As a time when every other senator – even liberal Democrats with long records of championing the Bill of Rights -- joined the post-September 11 rush to curtail basic liberties, Feingold stood alone in defense of the principle that it was possible to combat terrorism and protect the rights of Americans.

But Feingold no longer stands alone. On Friday, he led a bipartisan group of senators that successfully blocked the administration's concerted effort to renew the Patriot Act in a form that maintains its most abusive components. A move by Republican leaders of the Senate to prevent Feingold from mounting a filibuster fell seven votes short of the number needed. A remarkable 47 senators – including Democrats and Republicans – backed the Wisconsin Democrat's stance. That's far more than the 40 needed to prevent a filibuster, and it means that Feingold now heads a coalition that should be able to force significant changes in the Patriot Act before the December 31 deadline for its renewal.

The Senate coalition that the maverick senator has assembled is made up of members from across the political spectrum – from Massachusetts Democrat Ted Kennedy, the dean of Senate liberals, to Idaho Republican Larry Craig, one of the chamber's most right-wing members – who have joined Feingold in calling for reform of the Patriot Act.

This coalition did not just form overnight.

It is the result of four years of hard work by Feingold and others who recognized that the fight to fix the Patriot Act would have to be a long-term struggle.

Some members of Congress were swayed by Feingold's constant pressure on Patriot Act issues, and by the fact that the senator was easily reelected in 2004 after a campaign in which he highlighted his opposition to the measure and his concern for the Constitution.

Others were influenced by the diligent efforts of U.S. Representative Bernie Sanders, I-Vermont, and his allies in organizations of librarians and independent booksellers, who campaigned for three years to alert Americans to the fact that the Patriot Act allowed federal agents to collect information on the reading habits of law-abiding citizens.

Others, still, were convinced by the success that the Bill of Rights Defense Committee had in getting seven states and close to 400 communities across the country to go on record expressing concern about the damage done by the Patriot Act to Constitutional protections against illegal searches and other abuses.

"It's an example of public pressure reaching through to their elected representatives," Feingold said of the grassroots campaign to reform the Patriot Act. "It's a unique chapter in the history of civil liberties in this country."

So popular did the movement become that this week, with the December 31 deadline for reauthorizing the Patriot Act looming, the Bush administration and its Congressional allies were forced to use a backdoor maneuver to thwart reforms that had been unanimously agreed to by the Senate. A conference committee report that was supposed to reconcile the Senate and House versions of the reauthorization measure instead was turned into a vehicle to maintain the most controversial and unpopular components of the Act.

The White House and its Congressional allies thought they could secure reauthorization of the act in a form that allowed the Justice Department and other federal agencies to continue running roughshod over the Bill of Rights by bringing the measure up on the eve of the Holiday recess and then spinning up the usual hyperventilated talk about how it is necessary to crush the Constitution in order to keep the American people safe.

The maneuver worked in the House, where the report was approved Wednesday by a 251-174 vote. (The administration won that vote only because 44 Democrats, including Minority Whip Steny Hoyer, D-Maryland, Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee chair Rahm Emanuel and Ben Cardin, a candidate for Maryland's open Senate seat in 2006 – voted with the vast majority of House Republicans for a measure that the American Civil Liberties Union condemned as lacking "needed safeguards to protect the privacy and constitutional freedoms of innocent Americans.")

But, even as the House fell in line with the administration's scheme, Feingold refused to back down. He met the White House onslaught with a promise to do everything in his power to block reauthorization of the act in a form that does not sufficiently address concerns about federal agencies entering the homes of citizens of innocent Americans, reviewing library and medical records as part of "fishing expeditions" and secretly subpoenaing information without following standard legal procedures.

Going into Friday's fight in the Senate, Feingold assembled an unlikely coalition of liberal Democrats and libertarian Republicans to press his case against reauthorization in the manner demanded by the administration. The coalition came together around the premise that freedom need not be sacrificed in order to maintain security.

While he had allies this time, it was still Feingold who took the lead – and who took the heat.

When Attorney General Alberto Gonzales lobbied the Senate on behalf of the conference report, claiming that the version under consideration was respectful of civil liberties and pleading with senators to "trust" the administration to do the right thing, Feingold took to the floor of the Senate with a blistering response.

"Trust of government cannot be demanded, or asserted, or assumed, it must be earned," the senator said. "And this government has not earned our trust. It has fought reasonable safeguards for constitutional freedoms every step of the way. It has resisted congressional oversight and often misled the public about its use of the Patriot Act. And now the Attorney General is arguing that the conference report is adequate ‘protection for civil liberties for all Americans.' It isn't."

In the end, every Democratic senator except South Dakota's Tim Johnson and Nebraska's Ben Nelson (who voted with the Republicans), and Connecticut's Chris Dodd (who did not vote) sided with Feingold. So, too, did Vermont Independent Jim Jeffords and four conservative Republicans: Alaska's Lisa Murkowski, Idaho's Craig, Nebraska's Chuck Hagel and New Hampshire's John Sununu. (Republican Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, an ally of the administration, also voted against cloture in order to maintain his ability to reopen the issue.)

The failure of the Senate to block Feingold's filibuster threat does not doom the Patriot Act. The likelihood is that it will be renewed in some form. But the version that is eventually approved should be significantly more respectful of the Bill of Rights than the version the administration wanted.

That's all that Russ Feingold has been asking for since he began his lonely challenge to the Patriot Act back in 2001. The only difference is that, now, Feingold's voice is part of a bipartisan chorus that is demanding that Constitutional rights be defended by the members of Congress who have sworn to uphold that document.

As Feingold said Friday, "Today's vote proves that this is not a partisan issue. This is an American issue and a constitutional issue. Now is the time to come together to give the government the tools it needs to fight terrorism and protect the rights and freedoms of innocent citizens."

Comments (177)

  1. Yes Virginia, (and every other state) there IS a Santa Claus!

    Posted by leftofcenter at 12/16/2005 @ 3:26pm

  2. As a Nebraskan, I will be contacting both of my senators this weekend. Once again, I will be harshly criticizing my Democratic Senator (E. Benjamin Nelson) and praising my Republican Senator (Chuck Hagel). Maybe they could just swap parties?

    Posted by bjkron at 12/16/2005 @ 3:46pm

  3. two defeats for the administration in a row add up to a victory for the rule of law and for the american people, well done Feingold and McCain

    Posted by johannesrolf at 12/16/2005 @ 3:56pm

  4. Think I see now why Russ "got away" with his support for Chief Justice John Roberts.

    Little "CYA" from PatAct opposition!

    Posted by Mask at 12/16/2005 @ 3:58pm

  5. If the Patriot Act provisions expire, Republicans say they will place the blame on Democrats in next year's midterm elections. "In the war on terror, we cannot afford to be without these vital tools for a single moment," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said. "The time for Democrats to stop standing in the way has come."

    The phony Republican grandstanding is going to be obvious to almost everyone. They have imprisoned people for years under the pretense that they had evidence of their connection to terrorism only to reluctantly admit when forced to bring charges or release them that they had evidence of nothing at all. For them the "war against terrorism" is just a sideshow to their dreamed of subjugation of Iraq. They have wasted hundreds of billions on a war of aggression that served nothing but their personal interests and tens of billions more at home that has produced almost no significant prosecutions. Their aim is clearly nothing more than Big Brother power over ordinary Americans. Take a clue . . . they have 80,000 Americans on their "no-fly" list, many of them for no reason other than the fact that they expressed opposition to Bush's war of aggression against the people who WEREN'T responsible for 9/11.

    But the Patriot Act's critics got a boost from a New York Times report saying Bush authorized the National Security Agency to monitor the international phone calls and international e-mails of hundreds -- perhaps thousands -- of people inside the United States. Previously, the NSA typically limited its domestic surveillance to foreign embassies and missions and obtained court orders for such investigations.

    "I don't want to hear again from the attorney general or anyone on this floor that this government has shown it can be trusted to use the power we give it with restraint and care," said Feingold, the only senator to vote against the Patriot Act in 2001.

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/16/2005 @ 4:05pm

  6. Think I see now why Russ "got away" with his support for Chief Justice John Roberts.

    Little "CYA" from PatAct opposition!

    Posted by MASK 12/16/2005 @ 3:58pm

    No one gives a damn about your Feingold/Roberts ditty MASK. You cling to it like an infant with a pacifier. Feingold SMASHED Big Brother today, so read it and weep.

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/16/2005 @ 4:08pm

  7. BTW....almost missed THIS line

    "The administration won that vote only because 44 Democrats...."

    FORTY-FOUR?...so obviously even if the Democrats win back the House by 3-4 seats in 2006, they'll still have DOZENS who support legislation that the ACLU condemns?

    Posted by Mask at 12/16/2005 @ 4:10pm

  8. FROMRED

    Great for Russ....now when the ACLU takes the rest of the "popular" parts of the Patriot Act to the Supreme Court...Sen. Feingold's friend, Chief Justice Roberts can rule against them!

    Posted by Mask at 12/16/2005 @ 4:11pm

  9. Fli-i-i-p F-l-l-o-p-p!

    Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! Mask, LL, CPT, Matches . . . in three months he's going to be saying that the Iraq War was launched under false pretenses and he was against it all along. Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/16/2005 @ 4:14pm

  10. Mask - Today is a good day for people who care about the rights and liberties we supposedly are at war to protect. One battle at a time.

    Posted by Hman23 at 12/16/2005 @ 4:18pm

  11. BTW....almost missed THIS line

    "The administration won that vote only because 44 Democrats...."

    FORTY-FOUR?...so obviously even if the Democrats win back the House by 3-4 seats in 2006, they'll still have DOZENS who support legislation that the ACLU condemns?

    Posted by MASK 12/16/2005 @ 4:10pm

    And we could listen to some Republican clowns whining because the Democrats won't allow legislation to shred the Constitution to get to the Floor.

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/16/2005 @ 4:18pm

  12. curbs against the excesses of the patriot act are all well and good -- no more can you "destroy the village in order to save it" can we defend and uphold the constitution by systematically dismantling it.

    what's much scarier is the bush regime's claimed commander-in-chief perogatives under congressional authorizations to fight the phantom, formless, never-ending "war on terror" -- think the 4th circuit's ruling in the padilla case, and supreme court appeal gonzales & DOJ are frantically trying to forestall by calling the issue moot, where POTUS can by decree nullify a citizen's rights.

    while they're nibbling at the patriot act would be a good time to start demanding curbs on these "perogatives," with congress stepping up and taking its constitutional perogatives seriously.

    Posted by wpahnelas at 12/16/2005 @ 4:22pm

  13. FROMRED

    Great for Russ....now when the ACLU takes the rest of the "popular" parts of the Patriot Act to the Supreme Court...Sen. Feingold's friend, Chief Justice Roberts can rule against them!

    Posted by MASK 12/16/2005 @ 4:11pm

    Your back up strategies for shredding the Constitution are getting quite entertaining. What's the source of your prejudicial fixation against freedom of thought?

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/16/2005 @ 4:22pm

  14. Not a great day for Bush. Saw he has no comment on the domestic spying report. I bet he wishes he was back running the Texas Rangers.

    Posted by Hman23 at 12/16/2005 @ 4:23pm

  15. What are you talking about? Of course he has a comment... "The United States of America does not spy on its citizens"

    Posted by Megido at 12/16/2005 @ 4:28pm

  16. Not a great day for Bush. Saw he has no comment on the domestic spying report. I bet he wishes he was back running the Texas Rangers.

    Posted by HMAN23 12/16/2005 @ 4:23pm

    King Fahd bought the Texas Rangers for him and he's been going downhill ever since sugardaddy died.

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/16/2005 @ 4:29pm

  17. REDBIRD, Shredding the Constitution is a major progressive objective... and the Bill of Rights too. We want those terrorists to have a Merry Christmas for sure! Feingold is just another Satan worshiping liberal. He's one of us!

    Posted by John Earl at 12/16/2005 @ 4:32pm

  18. nice turn around earl, calling white black is not working anymore, the down is up presidency is broken and it will not be repaired, wait for the next poll numbers. try reading the constitution, knucklehead

    Posted by johannesrolf at 12/16/2005 @ 4:36pm

  19. I'm so happy to have confirmed that this is all about Bush and partisan politics and not our enemies. How could I have forgotten! Thank you Mr. Nichols. We sure got Bush now! Don't we?

    Posted by atpdc3 at 12/16/2005 @ 4:51pm

  20. As far as I am concerned this is the starting gun for a mass based movement to get its act together and see that this reprehesible person that occupies the office of the President is impeached and removed from office. It is not the time to be afraid or celeberouse (is that a word?) but to be ANGRY. This vote against cloture and the release of the story by the NYT further exposing the administration's contempt for civil liberties and freedoms is the time to stoke the anger, indignation and contempt that the vast majority of Americans feel for these clowns. It is time for the Democratic party leadership to stand up and be counted, fight those kooks who form the backbone of the Repugs. If they dont...WIN OR LOOSE.. I think that it will be the end of the Democrats and a long sorry time till some other political organization can arise and represent the liberal, progressive, MAJORITY of the American people.

    Joseph

    Posted by Rosalinda at 12/16/2005 @ 4:51pm

  21. A Christmas Message: Bring the troops home...now!

    As sometimes Christmas makes us nostalgic and the coming new year inspire us to reflect about the past, we are reminded that we have attacked a country that did not attacked us first and now we are posed to occupy that country for years just to change its long held political way of life and impose democracy on them.

    Not only that, we may yet discover that we have been misled into going to war with that country. Sure there was a dictator that had done horrible things, torture chambers, persecussion of political and ethnic minorities, etc., even using poison gas to eliminate an ethnic group. And not once did he comply with his international commitments. All kinds of chances were given to him to remain in power and prevent war. He had invaded other countries before but that was no reason to go to war against him. Yes, his scientists were pursuing all kinds of secret weapons but then again that was not enough, besides there are always other dictators around.

    Now it seems we were not prepared enough for this fight, the army is broken, it didn't have enough and proper equipment, not enough troops, our troops are tired, our generals have had to adapt to new tactics used by the enemy, the National Guard units and regular forces have overextended their commitment and tours of duties and their families here are suffering separation.

    Our very presence over there fuels the resistance of the enemy and is the best recruiting tool to bring more fanatics to their ranks. Our mere presence there makes them fight more, fighting us over there instead of fighting us here. Even volunteers from other countries have joined them. Estimates that our troops will be home by Christmas have proven wrong and misleading.

    What is more important, our failures of intelligence have had led us to were we are now. It is clear that this war is not winnable.

    Now we have a whole division, the Army's 101st Airborne Division surrounded in the town of Bastogne. The enemy has formed a bulge into our lines and it looks like they had more strength than previously estimated. I say it's time to bring the troops back and demand an immediate withdrawal.

    We should follow the advice of General Pelosi and General Murtha and retreat to a peripheral country like Okinawa placing a Marines division there in case we need to go back in. Gen. Patton is wrong in thinking we shouldn't pay twice for the same piece of real estate. The dream of bringing democracy to the Germans and the whole of Europe and defeating a hateful ideology in the process is just that, a dream.

    Posted by atpdc3 at 12/16/2005 @ 4:54pm

  22. atpetc, o the irony is just dripping from your post. tell us again how this Iraq debacle is like the war against germany, a fallacious argument. you might also remember that when Saddam invaded another country Kuwait, with a nod and a wink from Bush1, he was kicked out by a real coalition.I don't see you volunteering to fight in Iraq, Herr General

    Posted by johannesrolf at 12/16/2005 @ 5:00pm

  23. Johannes - Good to see you are back again in full force ... I have missed your posts.

    Megido - lol . . . yeah just like "The United States does not condone torture."

    Posted by Hman23 at 12/16/2005 @ 5:07pm

  24. ATPDC3, it is ALL about our enemies . . . the enemies of the Constitution and rule of law that occupy the White House.

    If "they hate us for our freedom;" aren't they winning when we curtail those freedoms? Your scare tactics aren't as effective as they were when people were still recovering from the shock of 9/11 pal.

    Posted by Hman23 at 12/16/2005 @ 5:12pm

  25. Earth to ATPDC3! Urgent message! Please re-read your history book. You might find there that Germany declared war on the U.S. and Japan attacked the U.S. You might notice that at the time Germany declared war on us, they had already invaded quite a few countries and murdered many of their population. You might notice that Japan, at the time they attacked our soil, had already invaded and taken over much of the far east, murdering millions in the process.

    Stop comparing this ridiculous little political war of choice to World War II. Every time one of you does it, it just confirms that you have no idea what you're talking about.

    Posted by BBatten at 12/16/2005 @ 5:13pm

  26. thank you Hman, that is very kind, I do feel a part of a community here.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 12/16/2005 @ 5:13pm

  27. historical footnote. by the time germany declared war on the US, their submarines had already attacked numerous american vessels. I don't recall any Iraqi attacks on american shipping

    Posted by johannesrolf at 12/16/2005 @ 5:19pm

  28. Ya'll behave yourselves or I will write about you in my super-duper-double secret report to the President on people that speak against the war.

    Posted by BlueTexan at 12/16/2005 @ 5:29pm

  29. Now if we can just get some health care plan with momentum....(shameless prelude to the following):

    I generally refrain from cross-posting and try to stay "in topic", so please pardon both now:

    Saw the late Peter Jennings final report last night. The tape/DVD is for sale on the ABC site. It is a profound look into the broken health care system and very worth watching

    SPECIAL: Peter Jennings Reporting: Breakdown -- America's Health Insurance Crisis: 12/15/05

    Buy it here: BREAKDOWN [tinyurl.co.uk]

    Posted by leftofcenter at 12/16/2005 @ 5:35pm

  30. Buuurp!

    Posted by atpdc3 at 12/16/2005 @ 5:45pm

  31. ATPDC3, thanks for showing up. I was wondering who the New Fourth Reich's most useful dupes were.

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/16/2005 @ 5:53pm

  32. Yay, another conservative with a poor grasp of world events! Let's do a line-by-liner of this one... "Sure there was a dictator that had done horrible things, torture chambers, persecussion of political and ethnic minorities, etc., even using poison gas to eliminate an ethnic group." : We support dictators all the time who do all of these things, and, we were allied with Iraq at the time of the poison gassing... which means.. we support dictators all the time who do all of these things. "And not once did he comply with his international commitments." Like submitting to economic sanctions, supplying money to the UN Oil for Food program (Yes, I'm aware there was corruption in this)? " All kinds of chances were given to him to remain in power and prevent war." Yes, and he took them, too. If you were paying attention, he relented and said he would allow inspectors into his country. " He had invaded other countries before but that was no reason to go to war against him." Sadly, UN obligations require some sort of agreement in order to legitimately wage war on another country. "Yes, his scientists were pursuing all kinds of secret weapons but then again that was not enough, besides there are always other dictators around. " Ones with actual weapons programs in development, with actual nuclear stockpiles and actual nuclear scientists creating actual weapons with them... think these might've been a better target?

    Finally, Okinawa is part of Japan, not another country. And, since you seem to enjoy calling civilians "generals", please note that the Commander-In-Chief is also a civilian, yet in charge of the entire military.

    Jackass.

    Posted by Megido at 12/16/2005 @ 5:56pm

  33. Buuurp!

    Posted by ATPDC3 12/16/2005 @ 5:45pm

    A new scientific advance! Someone has designed a graphic model of how the mind of the Republican Base (also known as the RR's) operates [tinyurl.com]. Helter-r-r Skelter-r-r-r!

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/16/2005 @ 5:58pm

  34. Do you have nightmares about . . . .

    . . . the terrorists . . .the terrorists . . .the terrorists . . .the terrorists . .the terrorists . . .the terrorists . .the terrorists . . .the terrorists . . .the terrorists . . .the terrorists . .the terrorists . . .the terrorists . . .the terrorists . . .the terrorists . . .the terrorists . . .the terrorists . . .

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/16/2005 @ 6:02pm

  35. Ja whol mein Untermensch! Heil alZarqawi! Heil Dean! Or should I say, Yeeeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

    Posted by atpdc3 at 12/16/2005 @ 6:04pm

  36. Okay, ya'll are out of hand (you crazy libs), you are going into my report to the President. We've also got wiretaps on your phones, so I can report about those too. You only thought you were living in the land of the free. Ha!

    Posted by BlueTexan at 12/16/2005 @ 6:07pm

  37. Meggido, Meggido. Jackass!? Tsk, tsk. It was Gen. Murtha who said we should redeploy to Okinawa. Did they omit that part of his "plan" on The "Nation"? Or was it in Moveon to the 60's .org?

    Posted by atpdc3 at 12/16/2005 @ 6:09pm

  38. It's always a good time to praise an outstanding Nation columnist, especially one whose blog now appears on MSNBC.com. Not LEAST because the following will probably make all of our dear little Neocons foam at the mouth (sadly, it is unlikely to make them go away). So, Beloved Leader must be given the authority to do whatever he wants, because he is keeping us safe from terrorism?

    Not according to Eric Alterman:

    Our leaders promise us over and over that the next catastrophic attack is imminent. Yet not only do they do nothing to prepare for such an eventuality, they actively seek to sabotage those who do. Again and again the Bush Administration has slashed Congressionally mandated funding for precautionary measures in the areas of port security and nuclear and chemical security. They withdrew troops and intelligence agents from Afghanistan, where they were tracking Osama bin Laden and a reconstituted Al Qaeda, in order to throw them into Iraq, where no terrorist threat existed.

    Together with the Republican majority in Congress, they have treated "homeland security" as a pork distribution program. What money is appropriated receives little or no oversight. Columbus, Ohio, is free to spend homeland security funds on bulletproof vests for fire department dogs; Newark, New Jersey, on air-conditioned garbage trucks; and the District of Columbia, on leather jackets and self-improvement seminars for sanitation workers.

    The [bipartisan 9-11] commission gave Bush & Co. a grade of F for:

    § failing to provide "adequate radio spectrum for first responders" from a variety of agencies to coordinate their actions in emergencies;

    § allocating homeland security funding based on pork-barrel politics, not on risk;

    § failing to make critical improvements in airline passenger pre-screening;

    § refusing to declassify the intelligence budget, thereby precluding effective Congressional oversight of budget priorities;

    § failing to set international standards for the treatment of detainees suspected of terrorism.

    OK, Neocons--start spinning. I am utterly agog with anticipation of your impending dervish-like rhetorical contortions . . .

    Posted by LisaJo at 12/16/2005 @ 6:23pm

  39. ATPDC3: New spokesperson for RNC I see? New lows every day!

    Posted by doumer at 12/16/2005 @ 6:23pm

  40. By the way, the "F grades" were from the Commission, not from Alterman. These guys have proven that they can't be trusted with the length of rope the Patriot Act gives them--they'll only use it to hang the American people.

    Posted by LisaJo at 12/16/2005 @ 6:25pm

  41. LISAJO, the spy networks are now buzzing with your personal information. The President will pull up your information shortly. You are on his "To be spied on list". Merry Christmas.

    Posted by BlueTexan at 12/16/2005 @ 6:33pm

  42. BlueTexan, that is precisely why I always answer the telephone with a hale and cheerful, "Fuck Bush! This is Lisa . . . "

    Posted by LisaJo at 12/16/2005 @ 6:35pm

  43. Ja whol mein Untermensch! Heil alZarqawi! Heil Dean! Or should I say, Yeeeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Posted by ATPDC3 12/16/2005 @ 6:04pm

    Your beloved leader is the one who let al Zarqawi off the hook. Bringing him up just reminds me of the pentagon report about how Bush wouldn't let them kill Zarqawi for political reasons. If Clinton did something like that, morons like you would be calling for his impeachment.

    Posted by BBatten at 12/16/2005 @ 6:36pm

  44. Yes Doumer. I guess that is why I was a Latin American specialist and briefer for a former Democratic Party President of the US. And delegate to the Democratic Party Convention in Atlanta prior to that. But ooops, that was before the Party was taken over by the Pink Panties for Peace and head in the sand crowd.

    Posted by atpdc3 at 12/16/2005 @ 6:37pm

  45. ATPDC3, who did you work for? Who was your direct supervisor? In which office were you based? Which part of "Latin America" was your specialty and what issues did you brief the president on? Inquiring minds want to know.

    Posted by BBatten at 12/16/2005 @ 6:39pm

  46. LISAJO, just keep going. I'm putting checks by your name (you know like in grade school...checks by your name everytime you talk while the teacher is out). Oh boy, you keep this up and you'll be elevated to the next watch level.

    You homeland security dollars at work!! Watch out for those Quakers...they're the worst!

    Posted by BlueTexan at 12/16/2005 @ 6:40pm

  47. But seriously, I figure I'm probably on the "watch" list, and am being bugged, already. My former live-in boyfriend attended an anti-globalization rally in Miami last year, and parked his truck legally in a parking garage. Of course, it sported about 10 anti-administration bumper stickers. After the demo, he was drinking coffee in a pleasant little cafe, and saw a tow truck hauling away a truck that looked like his.

    Guess what? It was his. He found it at the vehicle impound, with all of the windows smashed. (It was a pick-em-up truck, and to gain entrance, one needed only to smash one side window). Its contents had been ransacked, and his laptop had been thoroughly examined.

    Because he was legally parked in a Miami parking garage. Even had the parking sticker on the dash.

    He used to use our mutual phone a lot when we were living together, and it was in my name. No doubt I'm being bugged. Fuck Bush! Thanks for calling . . . "

    Posted by LisaJo at 12/16/2005 @ 6:41pm

  48. Hey AC/DC: learn to read. Here's what Murtha said:

    QUESTION: My other question: What do you mean exactly by a quick reaction force in the region?

    MURTHA: Well, the Marines in Okinawa -- remember in Somalia, we came back from Somalia and then we went back in. It only took us a couple days to take care of the Iraqi army, and now we're not talking about an army.

    What I'm talking about is a terrorist camp that may affect our national security or the security in the region, we can go back in. But not a civil war or something like that. That's up to the Iraqis to settle that.

    So I think the Marine force could be in there momentarily, within a couple days, within 48 hours they could be in there. And if the Kuwaitis would agree and they wanted to put a force in Kuwait, that would be a good place to have them; they could go right down the road.

    Posted by doumer at 12/16/2005 @ 6:41pm

  49. Not to belabor the obvious, but if it was always possible to fight terrorism and protect the rights of Americans all along, why not just repeal the thing and be done with it?

    Posted by dgvb55 at 12/16/2005 @ 6:42pm

  50. I'm pretty sure that ATPDC3 is one of our regular Neocons who has managed to add a new name to make it seem like their numbers are growing. The idiotic blathering and Dean references prove that he has nothing to say.

    Posted by LisaJo at 12/16/2005 @ 6:43pm

  51. Yes, please, let's repeal the Patriot Act. It has not increased our safety, and it has degraded our Constitution. EXCELLENT idea, DGVB55!

    Posted by LisaJo at 12/16/2005 @ 6:44pm

  52. ATPDC3, you claimed to be a former democratic "briefer" of the president and, evidently a former party insider. I doubt that because you earlier made a tired old factually lame comparison between Iraq and WWII. I asked you some rather simple questions designed to show whether or not you were lying. You haven't responded. Liar.

    Posted by BBatten at 12/16/2005 @ 6:46pm

  53. Yes Doumer.."Well, the Marines in Okinawa -- remember in Somalia, we came back from Somalia and then we went back in." And that worked so well. Didn't it?

    This too..."What I'm talking about is a terrorist camp that may affect our national security or the security in the region"...So first we let them set camp and then we go back in, and of course no American troops wil die. Brilliant plan!

    Posted by atpdc3 at 12/16/2005 @ 6:48pm

  54. Lisa, I hear you. Strange stuff today. I posted some snippets of the Congressional Research Services report on 9/11 vs Hussein. It took a while to find that report. I checked back into The Nation thread 10 minutes later and "whoosh"....gone.

    Posted by doumer at 12/16/2005 @ 6:49pm

  55. bbaten, like I'm going to let this crowd know! Cuba and Central America most specifically, if you must know.

    Posted by atpdc3 at 12/16/2005 @ 6:51pm

  56. Ooooh! Help me, BlueTexan! Big, important presidential advisor ATPDC3 is going to scold me!

    I guess that is why I was a Latin American specialist and briefer for a former Democratic Party President of the US.

    Snrrrk. Yeah, right. Was it Clinton, Carter, Truman, or FDR? How about a resume, big shot? A few references?

    I forgot to mention that I'm Nancy Reagan.

    Posted by LisaJo at 12/16/2005 @ 6:53pm

  57. DOUMER...don't get too slick...or "whoosh" and YOU might be gone altogether. Its all part of the master Spy plan our President has assembled.

    I recognize this has gotten national attention but I think it deserves more. I haven't watched TV or heard radio today, so I'm not sure how big it is. But Congressional hearings should be started shortlty. He needs to be examined under oath.

    Posted by BlueTexan at 12/16/2005 @ 6:53pm

  58. OK, I still don't believe you. What office did you work in? For which state were you a delegate? When you gave someone an internal briefing memo, what were the words at the top of each memo?

    Posted by BBatten at 12/16/2005 @ 6:54pm

  59. Lisajo...you are right I'm an idiot! That is one of the greatest argumentation I've ever heard. I'll be back after I dry my tears with my neocon hanky....

    Posted by atpdc3 at 12/16/2005 @ 6:55pm

  60. Oh, and of COURSE you're on quadruple-secret-extra-spy-undercover-fishcakes, so all you can do is gloom at us with dire suggestions of everything you KNOW . . .

    I'm ignoring him. Anyone else want to play? I don't usually do this, but, I mean, C'MON. Next thing you know we'll be wasting time responding to Barney the Dinosaur.

    Posted by LisaJo at 12/16/2005 @ 6:55pm

  61. bbaten...You of small faith...you won't believe me no matter what I'd say, even if I had God deliver you my credentials in person!

    Posted by atpdc3 at 12/16/2005 @ 6:57pm

  62. Well, THANK YOU, Mr. Presidential Advisor. It's about time one of you admitted that you're idiots.

    Posted by LisaJo at 12/16/2005 @ 6:58pm

  63. whenever some action is undertaken, there are two things we have to ask. 1. was it done well, and 2 was it worth doing in the first place.

    now let's consider the Iraq war: even some of the most rabid Bush defenders often agree that this was botched from the start and incompetence reigned throughout. too few troops, no body armor, etc

    2. was it worth it? tens of thousands of dead Iraqis,maybe even hundred of thousands, thousands of dead US troops, and others too, hundreds of billions of dollars, and what has been the result so far? one bad dictator toppled, a country destroyed, america ripped in two, etc

    my question is, if the right wingers agree with 1 why is so difficult to admit 2?

    my own opinion is that no matter how well it could have been done and wasn't, it would not remove the stain of illegitimacy of the venture.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 12/16/2005 @ 6:58pm

  64. Lisajo, Lisajo .... ignore me please. Message from DNC: Hate Bush, Hate Buuuush, Hate Buuuuush. Hate Buuuush..this will bring us back to power.

    Posted by atpdc3 at 12/16/2005 @ 6:59pm

  65. AC/DC: Again, I implore you to read and comprehend. Murtha was merely making an analogy of the LOCATION of our troops as they were deployed to Somalia.An analogy. Should I define this for you?

    His recommendation: Kuwait.

    Posted by doumer at 12/16/2005 @ 7:00pm

  66. Doumer...imploration accepted. I will go to my room a flagelate myself 100 times with my "We the United States are so hateful, we provoke every evil in the world whip." Good night. Remember Hate Buuuuuuuuuuush, Hate Buuuuuuuuush!

    Posted by atpdc3 at 12/16/2005 @ 7:03pm

  67. Making a list and checking twice on Boo'sh

    ………....Pro…………………...........…….......……….Con

    …......Nice guy……………...........……can't speak w/out hidden ear bud

    acts like a regular guy……….…...........…almost w/the IQ to boot

    ........believes in God………….......…….doesn't believe in most science

    ....comes off as a leader….…........…..well after a few minutes/days of

    ………………….…….....................…....….the eyes in the headlights funny look

    ……………………...............…...........…..and gets a script and edits the audience

    makes decisive appointments….....…..... of a bunch of cronies

    says everyone is doing…….............…. No literally-- ‘HELL' of a job

    … a hell of a job

    Promised to get bin Laden………..........….didn't, went to war in Iraq

    Promised homeland security………..............……….PORK

    …says he has a plan…………...........…….……..he, well, lies a lot

    …...awards medals……………..........……..for making terrible choices

    Promotes people w/in his…………........…for making terrible choices

    …own administration

    ….revised health care…………...........…..to benefit large pharmaceuticals

    tried to revised social security………...........…to benefit wall street

    says he's an environmentalist……..............……shredded Kyoto

    grants presidential authority…….............…….to spy on US citizens

    pro(fessional)……………..........................…………..con(fidence artist)

    Well it's a start anyway....

    Posted by Bushfools at 12/16/2005 @ 7:04pm

  68. Seriously, why are you guys engaging someone who is clearly not even pretending to be on the level? No offense, but really, why?

    Posted by LisaJo at 12/16/2005 @ 7:05pm

  69. I'll bet you anything Bushrules is back.

    Posted by LisaJo at 12/16/2005 @ 7:07pm

  70. DOUMER wrote: "An analogy. Should I define this for you?"

    I don't think a definition would help. The guy can't even spell or use proper grammar ("That is one of the greatest ARGUMENTATION I've heard"; "you won't believe me no matter what I'D SAY"), reading definitions of "complex" terms like 'analogy' is probably beyond his ken.

    I think when he wrote presidential "briefer," what he was trying to say was that he once had a job in the laundromat where they cleaned the president's briefs.

    Posted by Rintrah at 12/16/2005 @ 7:10pm

  71. AC/DC: "Cuba and Central America most specifically".

    Dang man! No shit. I love Cuba. Great beaches. Great old hotels and a raucous nightlife. Where in Central America? Sounds a little suspicious to me. Black ops shit? Did you get visas stamped in your passport? Did you have to fly to Central America to get to Cuba? A little illegal as Cuba is on our "no fly zone". Me, well I'm a dual national and my "other" passport allows me to fly anywhere I damned well please.

    Do ya speaka da spanish? If so, wanna converse?

    Posted by doumer at 12/16/2005 @ 7:11pm

  72. bbaten...You of small faith...you won't believe me no matter what I'd say, even if I had God deliver you my credentials in person!

    Posted by ATPDC3 12/16/2005 @ 6:57pm

    And God does your bidding.

    Impressive

    Posted by Will C. at 12/16/2005 @ 7:15pm

  73. Lisa: I know your preference on ignoring these guys. To some extent, I agree with your sentiments.....but...sometimes it's just plain fun running these guys in circles. Kinda like doin the "chicken dance".

    Posted by doumer at 12/16/2005 @ 7:17pm

  74. Hey no, really. If you have God deliver your credentials to me, I WILL believe it. I promise. But I doubt God does chores for you even more than I doubt you were ever a democratic "briefer."

    Posted by BBatten at 12/16/2005 @ 7:21pm

  75. NOT TO QUIBBLE, BUT...

    John Nichols wrote: "The failure of the Senate to block Feingold's filibuster threat does not doom the Patriot Act. The likelihood is that it will be renewed in some form. But the version that is eventually approved should be significantly more respectful of the Bill of Rights than the version the administration wanted.

    "That's all that Russ Feingold has been asking for since he began his lonely challenge to the Patriot Act back in 2001."

    John, surely you know that your statement here is wrong. The Senate will vote to extend most of the provisions of the PATRIOT Act and the version that passes WILL NOT be what "Russ Feingold has been asking for." While it will probably be less offensive than the current draft, it will still tread on important rights to privacy, free association, speech, assembly, etc.

    I doubt Senator Feingold will be happy with it. I doubt you will. And I doubt it will be what you or Russ has been asking for.

    Otherwise, a fine article.

    Posted by Shlyapnikov at 12/16/2005 @ 7:25pm

  76. rintrah, very funny with the briefs.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 12/16/2005 @ 7:26pm

  77. Posted by BBATTEN 12/16/2005 @ 7:21pm

    BBATTEN: whatsa matta fo you! Doncha know, God is a little busy right now what with counselling george with more incite and all that. he has no time to address your petty little wants and needs. Bring your face over here and let me slap it for you. Heathen!

    Posted by doumer at 12/16/2005 @ 7:27pm

  78. SHL:

    Point taken: "While it will probably be less offensive than the current draft, it will still tread on important rights to privacy, free association, speech, assembly, etc."

    Nevertheless, this still stands as a landmark. The connservatives have been placed on notice that from now on, it will not be an automatic rubber stamp, as has been the case the last x number of years. It's a beginning and we, as constituents need to hammer every day.

    Posted by doumer at 12/16/2005 @ 7:33pm

  79. I do get your point, Doumer. I haven't officially "ignored" anyone but Rio and this joker. (And I made up a special double-secret-extra-spy-fishcakes "ignore" button for the Presidential Advisor!) Yeah, I can see how it might be fun, if we're talking about some sincerely committed Neocon. But talking to this idiot is the same as saying, "C'mon! Post some more of this crap!" So, I guess I'm just no-fun-fishcakes. A few jabs and insults, sure, but after that, what's the point?

    I'd SURE like to talk to some non-Latin-American-Presidential-Advisors about the important stuff that went down today.

    Posted by LisaJo at 12/16/2005 @ 7:37pm

  80. Hmmmm. Thinking some more about Doumer's post to me. Maybe I am no fun anymore. I sure don't like the thought of becoming the big, ol' dour Ms. Grundy of the thread.

    So, I'm going off to think about it a bit.

    Posted by LisaJo at 12/16/2005 @ 7:45pm

  81. I sure don't like the thought of becoming the big, ol' dour Ms. Grundy of the thread.

    Posted by LISAJO 12/16/2005 @ 7:45pm

    MS. Grundy?

    LJ, I take exception to that. You have shown us that you are capable of taking the intellect and depth that you brought to our Blog and have been able to nicely mesh it together with your own unique style of knife between the teeth, climb into the sewer and hit them where they live combativeness.

    We're going to need more of that to win this fight.

    Posted by Will C. at 12/16/2005 @ 7:54pm

  82. Lisa and Will: As I see this, my daily life does not begin and end each day by the wisdom of The Nation. It is indeed a valuable source for ALL of us to post our thoughts and common ground issues. Debate, to me is the be all and end all, of all that is good in this world. that is why I come here. If some goomba wants to come and talk shit about his former ties to high end admin suits, then, so be it and it's my script to call him to it.much as we all love to debate with LL, Rio, Sporty, SaltMan and the rest, at least, it is debate and it is out of the back alley. Dialogue is the answer. You just never know at the end of the day.

    Posted by doumer at 12/16/2005 @ 8:07pm

  83. Lisa & Blue

    makes me wonder if the Nazi-cons are snooping on us here....next thing you know I'm gonna have to "unignore" Rese. Hey, there's a black SUV rollin kinda slow down my street....wonder if I'll see it again tonight.

    Posted by leftofcenter at 12/16/2005 @ 8:27pm

  84. Damn! I often talk to myself and ususally agree with myself. However, in closing here (for I must go out and find some cold brews for me, a couple of Pinot Grigio for my dear wife and a couple of cheap boxed wine ---white zin---for the mother-in-law), better conversation will be found and come together to a successful evening. I have checked my vehicles and so far have found no covert bugs to record my intmate conversations with wife and mother-in-law. So far so good. But, must I check every day?

    Man, this country is getting more fucked up every day! I want to have a detailed accounting of how my $22,000 paid in FICA last year was allocated!

    Posted by doumer at 12/16/2005 @ 8:31pm

  85. Posted by DOUMER 12/16/2005 @ 8:07pm

    Point taken. But if it does go into the back alley.

    I'm going with it.

    I'm going where ever they go.

    Posted by Will C. at 12/16/2005 @ 8:37pm

  86. A nice day all in all. Elections in Iraq and the return of the democratic spirit in America. Imagine Congressmen actually standing up for the Bill of Rights. Will wonders never cease? Still not a majority though.

    Posted by audiojoebob at 12/16/2005 @ 8:38pm

  87. John, surely you know that your statement here is wrong. The Senate will vote to extend most of the provisions of the PATRIOT Act and the version that passes WILL NOT be what "Russ Feingold has been asking for." While it will probably be less offensive than the current draft, it will still tread on important rights to privacy, free association, speech, assembly, etc.

    I doubt Senator Feingold will be happy with it. I doubt you will. And I doubt it will be what you or Russ has been asking for.

    Otherwise, a fine article.

    Posted by SHLYAPNIKOV 12/16/2005 @ 7:25pm

    The objective is to give it a short extension in an improved form rather than making it permanent so that it can be further improved later. That's my understanding but I did skim it.

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/16/2005 @ 8:42pm

  88. Doumer

    For a real treat , get the wife a nice Viognier. [enjoyingviognier.com] It is a semi-dry fruity white with a "powerful" flavor. Very good stuff...

    Posted by leftofcenter at 12/16/2005 @ 9:06pm

  89. FROMRED

    Given the scope of your (and I know this may come as a surprise...MY) victory today over a bit of legislation I think (like Sen Feingold) went too far....

    it's odd you get so angry, when I point out that Sen Feingold isn't the "knight in shining armor" you think, when I mention his support of the man who will probably enforce the REST of the Patriot Act....Chief Justic John Roberts.

    Posted by Mask at 12/16/2005 @ 9:09pm

  90. So poor Dubya didn't get his coveted Patriot Act? No, poor you and poor me, who got the beautiful name, and then got eavesdropped by the Feds. But you know Washington. Dubya wants to enter history nothing less than Ronald Reagan, but looks more and more Nixon-lite.

    Posted by HelenDAO at 12/16/2005 @ 9:09pm

  91. Where are all of those tough-guy fascist, winger posters? Even a winger might be a tad nervous about an insane chump president who illegally authorizes spying on citizens. Maybe changing their voter registration cards, or buying tickets to a less publicized, backwater dictatorship would be appropriate. You fuckwads simply went too far. We all know it.

    Change will come.

    Love and kisses punkasses

    Bloppy

    Posted by bloppy at 12/16/2005 @ 9:17pm

  92. I'll try that Voignier, lefty, if you try a nice dry Riesling from the NY Finger Lakes, and forgive my correcting you, I cheated, I looked it up, isn't Google wonderful, no wonder everyone is throwing money at them.

    this war and the criminal gang that started it will soon be forgotten, but our time will be remembered for the web revolution, an event as momentous as the industrial revolution and the invention of the printing press, and people will shake their heads at the barbarity of our time

    Posted by johannesrolf at 12/16/2005 @ 10:46pm

  93. Frank

    If you get a sec, check out my 12/15 3:59 post on the "Christmas Wars"...it ain't as poetic as you, but I'm trying...

    Johann

    Thanks, I'll give the Riesling a shot if I can find a NY 'round here (S IL)

    Posted by leftofcenter at 12/16/2005 @ 10:56pm

  94. Frank

    A terrorist can go to a gun show and purchase an arsonal with cash and walk away assured the records of the transaction are secure. Or he could purchase the arsonal or perhaps some black market uranium overseas and have it containered into an American port, then delivered to the office space he rented.

    But that's not an issue with our fearlesss leader. He wants to know what I read before bed last night.

    bin Laden isn't Bushes enemy.

    we are

    Posted by Will C. at 12/16/2005 @ 10:56pm

  95. Voignier, Viognier...Hmmm, seems it is out there spelled both ways. However, the bottle in my rack is V-i-o......I'm sure either spelling will be as fruity!

    Posted by leftofcenter at 12/16/2005 @ 10:58pm

  96. Johannes,

    " but our time will be remembered for the web revolution, an event as momentous as the industrial revolution and the invention of the printing press, and people will shake their heads at the barbarity of our ...."

    I think they will be asking questions like" You idiots actually BURNED crude oil products? In cars? With all the water and hydrogen around for practically free??"

    Was denkst du? oder Was denken Sie?

    Posted by john maasch at 12/16/2005 @ 11:13pm

  97. I think they will be asking questions like" You idiots actually BURNED crude oil products? In cars? With all the water and hydrogen around for practically free??"

    Posted by JOHN MAASCH 12/16/2005 @ 11:13pm

    If that's what history will say of us, imagine the opinion it will have of Gee Dubya.

    You ought to forward your post to the white house John. It's sure to give our president the heeby jeeby's.

    No legacy for poor george

    Posted by Will C. at 12/16/2005 @ 11:17pm

  98. What about Clinton...Hey, forget all those BOZOs...What will history say about me!??or Bloppy?!!!HMMM, probably nothing...oh, well...

    Posted by john maasch at 12/16/2005 @ 11:27pm

  99. Posted by JOHN MAASCH 12/16/2005 @ 11:27pm

    What about Clinton? And, when are you guys going to give him up as your crutch. I would think that you could walk on your own two feet five years into the Bush administration.

    It is mind boggling that you can't let him go.

    Must be love

    Posted by Will C. at 12/16/2005 @ 11:50pm

  100. Fag

    Posted by Will C. at 12/16/2005 @ 11:50pm

  101. The fascists of the Bush Reich have gone too far. Now even the spineless Democrats are standing up to them. Their Patriot Act Gestapo is finally scaring Congress. Their illegal spying on U.S. citizens thru the NSA has been revealed, and Bush signed off on it personally. These creeps are fascist goons exploiting the terror threat. But people are starting to smell them.

    Posted by philbq at 12/16/2005 @ 11:51pm

  102. Oh Maaschy: Clinton?, Still jerking off to Clinton? Hey bud.. that just might be one of many reasons that "history" will never reference you. Take up a hobby. Carving duck decoys might work. Or cataloging all of the fast-food restaurants you have dined at over the years. Or joining the stanky old worthless neocon Candystripers. There is a role for you out there.

    Love, love, love,

    bloppy

    Posted by bloppy at 12/16/2005 @ 11:52pm

  103. Bloppy,

    Good point ...I will make list of democratic and left wing war heros...oh well..good nite

    Love you too yppolb!!!!flush, flush...

    Posted by john maasch at 12/17/2005 @ 12:01am

  104. Martin Garbus, the noted lawyer, says that Bush committed an impeachable offense when he signed the illegal NSA spying authorization. Illegal spying is a violation of law.

    Posted by philbq at 12/17/2005 @ 12:04am

  105. Dear cretins (R) If you do not beleive that the classic wizard has been spying on U.S. citizens since these pigs took over, go soak your heads in gasoline and strike a match. Greed and knowledge is their goal. And if you think they dont know where the guns are, your sadly mistaken. Various forces in the military are now asked if they would fire on their fellow countrymen. Remember someone saying that when a government becomes so corrupt it is not only our right but our duty to overthrow that government.!!!I will let them crawl up my ass, but if they do not find what they are looking for I think they should have to pay me 10 or 15 million dollars and anyone that was party to authorizing that invasion of my privacy should have to pay me 10 thousand a year for the rest of my life and my childrens and their children. Three generations sounds about right. All targets of NSL's and any other government sponsored investigation the same fines should apply. After three years all NSL's that have produced no convictions should be publicly released. A law needs to be passed to let us sue the pants off anyone that permits the intrusion of our privacy. Congressional oversite needs to be employed in all cases of spying. How many NSL's were authorized and who were the targets? These CSMF's need a leash! Off subject - did you see where a New Hampshire federal jury convicted a bush campaign chairman for his part in a plot to jam Democrats' phones on election day. Did this take place in other states??

    Posted by EEEE Nine at 12/17/2005 @ 12:26am

  106. FROMRED

    Given the scope of your (and I know this may come as a surprise...MY) victory today over a bit of legislation I think (like Sen Feingold) went too far....

    it's odd you get so angry, when I point out that Sen Feingold isn't the "knight in shining armor" you think, when I mention his support of the man who will probably enforce the REST of the Patriot Act....Chief Justic John Roberts.

    Posted by MASK 12/16/2005 @ 9:09pm

    Oh, my mistake! You keep coming off as the water carrier for The Nation discussion forum brownshirt caucus. I would never trust anyone who was "slightly" libertarian, anyway. I prefer libertarians neat.

    And, I know for a fact that Russ Feingold is a knight in shining armor. Who the hell is rustic John Roberts, anyway?

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/17/2005 @ 01:39am

  107. I don't think that supporters of the abusive parts of the original Patriot Act actually realize what's at issue here. If you are a library patron and choose to read books and articals written by suspected terrorists, you will probably be covertly spied on in other ways. The Feds will get into your emails, phone calls and internet usage to see if there is any connection to you and terrorists just because of your choice of reading. There is no place for this kind of act in my America. When we give up our basic liberties for ANY reason, we give a victory to terrorists. This is just so simple to understand and today 47 Senators finally got it. Well 46. Feingold had it all along. I still can't believe that Robert Byrd voted for the original Act.

    Posted by FRANKGRITS 12/16/2005 @ 10:22pm

    Frank, how many suspected terrorists write books that you'll find at your local library? They want to spy on people that read pap like The Death of Che. That's why they have done doo doo for successful prosecutions of real terrorists.

    They spent ten years listening to every word that Palestinian guy in Florida said or typed, charged him, and lost on every count in front of an American jury. It was all bullshit, a dog and pony show for their dupes. The average American has got to be naturally prejudicial against Palestinians with all the decades of one-sided media coverage, yet they found him completely innocent. The untouchables must have promulgated charges without a speck of evidence.

    And, with the dumbass-in-chief ordering the NSA to spy on Americans without any oversight how many NSA employees do you think were spying on their spouses, relatives, neighbors, and business competitors? Beaucoups, you can bet, I gair-ohn-tee.

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/17/2005 @ 02:01am

  108. For a real treat , get the wife a nice Viognier. [enjoyingviognier.com] It is a semi-dry fruity white with a "powerful" flavor. Very good stuff...

    Posted by LEFTOFCENTER 12/16/2005 @ 9:06pm

    Why can't you be a man and drink Pabst instead of that fruity French stuff?

    Posted by CPT 12/17/2005 @ 02:01am | ignore this person

    No, it wasn't really CPT.

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/17/2005 @ 02:09am

  109. Have yourself a merry little Christmas, please don't listen to Rush If you do your mind...will turn to mush.

    Pretty good huh?

    Posted by FRANKGRITS 12/16/2005 @ 9:41pm

    Mush Limbaugh- not bad. I can't listen to that, though. Puts me to sleep.

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/17/2005 @ 02:13am

  110. That's enough for today but I'll give everyone here a heads up. I'm going to put a small piece of Russ Feingold's first suit of shining armor on e-bay for auction in a couple of days. Let me know if you want the bid number.

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/17/2005 @ 02:22am

  111. Martin Garbus, the noted lawyer, says that Bush committed an impeachable offense when he signed the illegal NSA spying authorization. Illegal spying is a violation of law.

    Posted by PHILBQ 12/17/2005 @ 12:04am

    Last one . . . CPT, the noted US Army recruiter, says that illegal activities are legal if a Republican Party lawyer says they're legal. There's plenty of oversight because dimbulb-in-chief is watching everything his lawyer does.

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/17/2005 @ 02:28am

  112. RESE

    Where is Barbara Olson?

    Posted by Mask at 12/17/2005 @ 08:54am

  113. Okaaaaaaaay

    and is she a "prisoner" or a "guest"?....and why does Ted Olson never visit his wife?....and what about the REST of AA Flight 77?

    Posted by Mask at 12/17/2005 @ 09:27am

  114. FROMREDBIRD

    That is a gross misrepresentation of what I said, but thats you tactic. Hey bud got news for you, the President has wide-ranging authority when it comes to National Security, and the incidnets are POST 911.

    Posted by CPT at 12/17/2005 @ 09:42am

  115. Nice cut&paste, RESE....but again

    Is Ms Olson a "prisoner" or "guest" at "Pine Gap"?

    Does Ted visit her (since he was obviously "in on it")?

    And what of the OTHER passengers and crew?

    Posted by Mask at 12/17/2005 @ 09:43am

  116. WILL C.

    "Some of our troops in Granada were using tourist maps. And calling north carolina via land line to get fire support.

    Guess you gotta do what you gotta do."

    ALL the Commanders had seen the ground via satelite images, BEFORE setting foot on Grenada, Standerd in the planning process, oh and just how big was Grenada, anyway?

    Posted by CPT at 12/17/2005 @ 09:47am

  117. BTW, for those who've ignored RESE....Barbara Olson is at "Pine Gap, Australia", either a "spa" or "concentration camp" (waiting to find out which)...which if you Google, will turn up numerous links to, of course, conspiracy websites as well as a handful of "Roswell/Area51" links.

    Posted by Mask at 12/17/2005 @ 09:48am

  118. FROMREDBIRD

    Why can't you be a man and drink Pabst instead of that fruity French stuff?

    Posted by CPT 12/17/2005 @ 02:01am | ignore this person

    No, it wasn't really CPT.

    Posted by FROMREDBIRD 12/17/2005 @ 02:09am | ignore this person

    Hey I did not post that! Are you getting that desparate, that you have to make up crap? Pretty sad FROMREDBIRD!

    Posted by CPT at 12/17/2005 @ 09:50am

  119. BLOPPY

    Are you under the delusion that simply because you use profanity filled tirades, that makes YOU tough? I assure you are not! You are laughable, at best.

    Seen plenty of "tough guys" who talk a good game like yourself, but when push comes to shove or the bullets start flying;

    YOU guys curl up into the fetal position and start sucking your thumbs.

    YOU are the type of guy/gal that have the "deer in the headlights look;" YOUR type HIDES in the bunker when mortars or rockets are incoming. YOUR type shits their pants when they spot the enemy at 300 meters out.

    And YOUR type never takes responsiblity for ANY self-inflicted problems you incur; its ALWAYS someone elses' fault because your a Fuck up and YOUR type stabs your "buddies" in the back, in order to make himself look good.

    So you see BLOPPY;

    You are not extraordinary, or cool, honest, or creative. You are a FAKE.

    You are like a fart in the wind, you smell bad and just like that your gone and forgotton.

    Just in case you missed this, wanted to be sure you saw it.

    Love Always

    Posted by CPT at 12/17/2005 @ 09:58am

  120. CPT

    I think RedBird put a series of "pseudo-posts" in the "what would....say?" vein. All in wry humor I think..

    Posted by leftofcenter at 12/17/2005 @ 10:02am

  121. RESE

    Am I going to have to put you back on my "Ignore List"?

    Any chance for a NON-cut&paste answer from you....last time-

    Is Barbara a prisonor or guest at Pine Gap?

    Does Ted go visit her? If so, any info on his itenerary and the last time he went down to Pine Gap?

    What did "they" do with the others from AA 77?....stick them on an island with a "hatch" and a bald guy named after an 18th Century philospher and one of the hobbits from Lord of the Rings?

    Posted by Mask at 12/17/2005 @ 10:09am

  122. IMPEACHABLE OFFENSE CONT. ---In today's N.Y. Times, Jeffrey Smith, former general counsel of CIA, states that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillence Act of 1978, which authorizes domestic spying on foreign subjects, requires a warrant in all cases. This legal opinion is supported by many other noted legal figures. Thus Bush has committed an impeachable offense by signing many illegal orders for domestic spying. There can now be no doubt about the evil of the Bush Reich and its gestapo tactics.

    Posted by philbq at 12/17/2005 @ 10:21am

  123. THE TRIFECTA --- The three leading headlines of today's Washington Post:(1)House approves tough immigration law (over Bush objections - his business buddies love the cheap illegal labor),(2)Illegal domestic spying angers lawmakers in Congress from both parties,(3) Patriot Act defeated in Senate. The Bush Reich is on the run. The emporer has no clothes.

    Posted by philbq at 12/17/2005 @ 10:35am

  124. REDBIRD, WAKE UP. INDEED, THE IRAQ WAR WAS BASED ON FALSE PRETENSES.

    HOORAY FOR DEMOCRAY AND FOR A FEW PATRIOTS LIKE FEINGOLD WHO OPPOSE THE PATRIOT ACT'S SECTIONS THAT ARE TOO EXTREME AND NOT NECESSARY.

    Posted by Mad Plato at 12/17/2005 @ 11:05am

  125. Sorry RESE....still not answering my DIRECT question.

    But it's not really surprising. This is your religion, and like a literalist Christian who's faced with unanswerable questions about "Joshua stopping the sun in the sky for a day" or "How do you keep the animals on Noah's Ark fed?", you lock-up and go back to your "sources" and merely put up a cut-n-paste.

    Like the fundies, logic and science confound your mythos and so you obfuscate.

    Another interesting point is how you have virtually the same "eschatology" as the Christian fundmentalists...that of a coming "Armegeddon" in which the "forces of evil which control EVERYTHING" will be "brought down" in the "near future".

    The advantage THEY have though is they have "God on their side", while if YOUR version of "Satan and his minions" ("The Cabal") is as powerful and long-lived as you claim...it's not going to be POSSIBLE for it to be destroyed...even by a bunch of cut-n-pastes from www.theforbiddenknowledge.com.

    How can you defeat "Ultimate Evil", without some deity? And so, your secular political "End Times Myth" is quite depressing, if looked at closely.

    Note: This would be a GREAT sociology/theology paper for some grad students out there...the relationship between the "Antichrist" myths of the fundamentalists and the "New World Order" myths of the radical leftist/libertarians.

    Posted by Mask at 12/17/2005 @ 11:34am

  126. RESE

    So how does "good" triumph...by what means or mechinism?

    Posted by Mask at 12/17/2005 @ 12:50pm

  127. Great RESE....who do we vote for?

    Posted by Mask at 12/17/2005 @ 4:57pm

  128. This whole train of thought brings to mind a Walt Kelly quote:

    Sen Frog: "I'll tell you, son, the minority got us out-numbered!"

    Posted by leftofcenter at 12/17/2005 @ 7:18pm

  129. RESE

    Ok...can you give me a NAME....so that we know how many guys after Bush, Cheney, Hastert,etc.etc.etc...we have to get rid of?

    Posted by Mask at 12/17/2005 @ 8:08pm

  130. LEFTOF

    Come, lighten up...this is fun!

    Posted by Mask at 12/17/2005 @ 8:09pm

  131. CPT, You aren't my buddy, dirtbag. You are a bullying, punkass who slinks around leftist websites because you aren't getting any at home. As for toughness, I'm tough enough to manage you. I'm sure that you and your fellows are more than a little upset because your "jefe" is blowing it big time, so you get your panties all twisted up. Maybe you could find a fucking fiefdom is sub-Saharan Africa that would embrace your mightiness. You clearly don't represent anything remotely American.

    Kiss my ass, loser.

    I love you more!!!

    Bloppy

    Posted by bloppy at 12/17/2005 @ 8:31pm

  132. RESE

    So....who?....Pelosi, Reid, Robert Byrd????

    Posted by Mask at 12/17/2005 @ 9:09pm

  133. Mask, Rese is a whole lot brighter than you are. If you are unwilling to digest what he offers, maybe you just ought to get a "bucket-o-chicken", go home, and beat your dog. (odds are, you don't have a wife)

    You wingers simply slay me!! And I must ask, do you have a hobby? Or is slithering the best you can come up with. Maybe you ought to set up a group with fellows Maashy, Liberty, and CPT (Rio could come also, if he could cut the manliness stuff). You could call it Winger, Jesus-humpin, Decoy-carving frauds. Does WJHDC& F sound really neat? Shit, it almost sounds like a rail line!

    So, words to the wise: hang around here at your peril, (or the continued entertainment of all of us). I ain't leavin. This is our country you mini-fascist pissants.

    Loving you!!!

    as always,

    Bloppy

    Posted by bloppy at 12/17/2005 @ 10:49pm

  134. BLOP

    You know oddly for a "lot brighter" guy...he has YET to directly answer two very simple questions...

    1. Why did Ted Olson send his wife Barbara to a secret CIA concentration camp in Australia (or fail to visit her at a secret CIA RESORT in Australia)?

    2. How does he expect the "force of good" to triumph over the "forces of evil" if the "elections are all rigged", "both parties are controlled by the Illuminati", and "all the wealth and the media is controlled by our Zionist oppressors"?

    I mean, Jeez, atleast the Rebellion had Princess Leia and a base on Yavin-4....according to RESE, all we "fighters for freedom" have are a couple of websites and an itchy Control-V key.

    Posted by Mask at 12/17/2005 @ 10:55pm

  135. Uh RESE

    (as noted above)....How DO we "overthrow the evil Zionist/Illuminati Empire"...if they control EVERYTHING and can kill ANYBODY?

    Posted by Mask at 12/17/2005 @ 10:56pm

  136. Mask, your love of Starwars references shows that you are still young and cute. I suspect that might be said of the rest of your (Oh, can I become a darling neo-fascist?) pals. Rese's stuff is a bit convoluted, and complex, but, it's not implausible. Current events bear that out. When you and your funny little friends accrue a bit more life experience, and read a bit more of history, you just might find that the current state of a affairs in this country is ugly, and dangerous, indeed. So, you can go home and carve decoys, play your stupid x-box, or be real men and patriots, and save our beautiful country from the whims of idiots. And I'm talking wannabe "King George" and all of his pals.

    I dare you all.

    and, I still love you just a bit.

    Bloppy

    Posted by bloppy at 12/17/2005 @ 11:20pm

  137. ALL the Commanders had seen the ground via satelite images, BEFORE setting foot on Grenada, Standerd in the planning process, oh and just how big was Grenada, anyway?

    Posted by CPT 12/17/2005 @ 09:47am

    Context Baby

    Redbird made a comment that al-Zarqawi could plan his missions using street maps. You disagreed saying that's a good way to get your self killed. I entered with my comment about our boys in Granada and some of the things they had to use to accomplish the mission.

    But if you want to talk about satellite imagery, anybody can buy just about anything from private imaging companies. This includes the bad guys. And the photos are very high quality stuff. Apparently you didn't know that.

    What's really interesting though is that you chose this post of mine to respond too as opposed to the one I left you about how Gee Dubya never bombed Al-Zarqawi's base to begin with.

    You know something CPT, you are almost as good as Mask at changing the subject and inserting irrelevant topics into a thread. Hell son, if that recruiter thing doesn't work out you should seriously consider a job at Fox.

    In case any one is interested, the posts I am referencing are in the comments section of John Nichols, "Run, Lowell, Run" thread

    Posted by Will C. at 12/18/2005 @ 12:05am

  138. CPT, (caint piss tonight) OK fartboy, arise from your lounger torpor and give us something memorable. Do you guys understand that ill-informed allegiances to "King" george might be grounds for your beheadings! (I personally, might spare you, but you just never know!). Fucking around with democracy is dangerous ground. To paraphrase your favorite TV show; "Come On Down!"

    best, and then some

    Bloppy

    Posted by bloppy at 12/18/2005 @ 12:24am

  139. Hey Will, if you didn't get it the last time. I slagged you needlessly. Apologies.

    regards,

    Bloppy

    Hey CPT, Rio, LL, Maaschy, et al: fuck off

    Posted by bloppy at 12/18/2005 @ 12:42am

  140. Bloppy

    I was never really sure why you slagged me to begin with.

    Posted by Will C. at 12/18/2005 @ 12:53am

  141. no apology needed

    Posted by Will C. at 12/18/2005 @ 12:55am

  142. NOW HEAR THIS ....This blog is about Feingold and the Bush mob! These blogs always seem to devolve into free association irrelevancy. I wanna talk politics. I don't give a fuck about the loony Rese ramblings. (even loonies are right sometimes) I sent Rese to oblivion long ago...when are you gonna wise up, Mask?

    Posted by philbq at 12/18/2005 @ 01:06am

  143. Here it is Saturday night, my wife is asleep, I got a good buzz on, and I'm ready to hash out the issues of the day, and now there's nobody? Not even a rightwing dickhead? You people are fucking boring...good night!

    Posted by philbq at 12/18/2005 @ 01:32am

  144. Hey Will, I was simply mistaken. Now, to digress, we have a serious problem here with vermin. Should we call the former house speaker to clean up his own? As for the bush-wankers, public ridicule and maybe some jail time would be just fine.

    Special love to CPT and "Mr. God,- L. Liberty"

    The fires of purgatory will cleanse our corrupt system of filth and abuse. Hey, did that sound religious, or what?

    Russ Feingold is a reasoned, decent guy.

    Bloppy

    Posted by bloppy at 12/18/2005 @ 01:35am

  145. Phil, what the hell can we do to remedy this? All of the winger punk-asses seem to have gone back to their burrows beneath the compost heap. The horror!

    Bloppy

    Posted by bloppy at 12/18/2005 @ 01:41am

  146. A good night kiss to: CPT, Love's (only himself), Jizzy, Mashistic,, Rio Spunko, and the rest of you parasites. I haven't seen anything from any of you that would indicate purpose, and resolve. You remain sore losers. Well Chumpettes, that's they way it happens some time. You can take it, can't you?

    Love!!

    Bloppy

    Posted by bloppy at 12/18/2005 @ 01:55am

  147. Here's something interesting

    I just got done watching the Chris Matthews Show. One of the "Tell me something I don't knows" was that Jack Abermoff is trying to plea bargain.

    There was instant speculation about the number and size of fish he would have to give up.

    It was stated, "This is going to be a good Christmas for the democrats."

    Posted by Will C. at 12/18/2005 @ 03:22am

  148. Ho Ho Ho

    Posted by Will C. at 12/18/2005 @ 03:22am

  149. RESE

    Out of some compassion, I'll let you know I'm putting you back on my Ignore List....you're paranoid ramblings and 3000 word cut&pastes simply aren't worth it.

    Like I said, it's like debating a fundamentalist over the literal nature of the Bible, nothing would convince you that there are monumental flaws in your mythos, and that thirty years from now, your vision of "the overthrow of the Zionist Illuminati" will still be unfulfilled (because it doesn't exist and if it DID, with the amount of power you've invested in "them"....a poor guy posting rambling missives on David Rockefeller and Henry Kissing isn't going to "bring them down").

    But it was fun seeing more of the weird side of Blog World.

    Posted by Mask at 12/18/2005 @ 09:17am

  150. This just in - Senate Leader Bill Frist - humanitarian extraordinaire has been using his charity for political purposes. As Gomer Pyle would say: "Suprise, suprise, suprise." Gosh, how deep will it have to get, before Republicans start cleaning their own house.

    Posted by audiojoebob at 12/18/2005 @ 09:35am

  151. Bush is not defending the perogatives and powers of the presidency, but rather defending his own personal power to do whay he pleases under the cover of national security.

    we are a nation of laws not men. if Bush can't do the job of protecting us within the stated law, we should either change the law or find somebody else to do the job. If the president broke the law, he should indeed be impeached. our entire legal system demands nothing less.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 12/18/2005 @ 11:01am

  152. audio, you will have to wait until the next election

    Posted by johannesrolf at 12/18/2005 @ 11:02am

  153. Johannesrolf

    Actually, the Republicans can take care of this at the start of the new Congress. Any Republican Senators out there with a big enough pair of cajones the take on the majority leader.

    As I've been saying for some time now - "If I could find a Republican, I would vote for him."

    Posted by audiojoebob at 12/18/2005 @ 11:06am

  154. Meet the Press, Tim Russert + Candi + spying on US Citizens = Minority Report w/out the psychics... Candi + Iraq - WMD - intel = elections x N, N = (OIL)

    Posted by Bushfools at 12/18/2005 @ 11:39am

  155. How many awful decisions will one administration have to apologize for? How little trust can an administration have for the people it supposedly represents?

    If I hear one more flunky like Rice or Gonzales telling us that we need the government to spy on us because we are in a different kind of war, I'm going to go postal. We are doing such a wonderful job containing al Qaeda--this in part because we are able to spy on US citizens, we are told. This is stated as if there is a difference between "we" and "US citizens". Those who sit outside of these descriptions are those in Washington, who are treating us as if we are all enemies of ourselves. Fuck them to hell! When things go to crap, let's engage in new forms of paranoia; heck, it was fun during the Cold War, wasn't it?

    That this braintrust can move with ease to turn the pointing finger of justice from themselves to us is just a hoot. But the time will come when the finger gets extended and rammed into this administration's nether regions. It's simply a matter of whether the finger belongs to the American people or "the enemy". For these people, there is no difference.

    For all you apologists who claim that those on the left hate America, a word of advice: it is a truly daunting task to reclaim your soul once you have sold it to the devil. Has there been a time in which "America" was held in more contempt by those who have been charged to protect and guide her?

    Posted by tjbehrens1 at 12/18/2005 @ 11:42am

  156. correction,

    Meet the Press, Tim Russert + Candi + spying on US Citizens = Minority Report w/out the psychics x 10X, X = 9/11... Candi + Iraq - WMD - intel = elections x 5X x N, N = (OIL)

    Posted by Bushfools at 12/18/2005 @ 11:56am

  157. Tjbehrens1:

    It really is something, isn't it? During 'Nam, we used to hear about how it was neccesary to destroy the villiages in order to save them. Apparently that tactic has found its way home.

    Posted by Legba at 12/18/2005 @ 1:37pm

  158. Mask At the risk of being somewhat relevant in my reply, something which seems to be the exception rather then the rule here, you need to research Sen. Feingold and his stances before you call him out for supporting Roberts and rejecting the PATRIOT Act. Feingold is a strong supporter of civil liberties and the bill of rights. However, he interprets the "advise and consent" clause of the constitution as meaning that it is ultimately the President's choice to pick member of the Supreme Court and the Cabinet. Thus, while he may offer suggestion or advice about who might be a good choice he can not block the candidate unless that person is unqualified for the job. Right or wrong, this has been Feingold's consistent stance on the issue and it is commendable that it is based upon a reading of the Constitution rather then his personal political preferences.

    Posted by MeanGreen at 12/18/2005 @ 2:09pm

  159. John,

    I join your praise of Senator Feingold's tireless efforts on behalf of our civil liberties and the coalition he stitched together in the Senate. The vote on cloture was a win for those of us who value our liberties under that great piece of parchment, but it should be noted that the war is not yet over.

    The Usurper is mounting an aggressive counter-offensive from the White House. He is again engaged in fear mongering and questioning the patriotism of those of us opposed to his tyranny.

    "That decision is irresponsible and it endangers the lives of our citizens. The senators who are filibustering must stop their delaying tactics and the Senate must reauthorize the Patriot Act," Mr. Bush said, according to the Associated Press as published in the WSJ Online, 12/17/05.

    "As a result, our enemies have learned information they should not have," he said. "The unauthorized disclosure of this effort damages our national security and puts our citizens at risk."

    Somewhat encouraging is that even his conservative base is beginning to make mild little whimpering sounds on behalf of the Constitution. This morning on This Week with George Stephanopoulos, tweedlie-dee, tweedlie-dum George Will called "capacious" Mr. Bush's self proclaimed right to spy on American citizens. Some Bush defenders claim the Patriot Act gives him this right. Others argue he has this right as commander-in-chief.

    I hope The Nation will keep up the pressure on the Senate by supporting Senator Feingold's coalition on behalf of our constitutional rights and against this tyranny of the state.

    Posted by seattlescribe at 12/18/2005 @ 2:12pm

  160. ALL

    Here's a cheery holiday thought:

    Bush gets impeached for breaking the laws re: internal "snooping" (let's put aside the fact that NSA is SUPPOSED to be used for intel items OUTSIDE the US)

    This means that we get (drum roll please)

    President Cheney (the friggin' antichrist) & VP Dennis "the Loon" Hastert

    ...and if the Devil collects on Cheney early, it gets even better:

    President Hastert & VP Ted "two bridges to nowhere" Stevens

    so...damned if we do, damned if we don't

    Posted by leftofcenter at 12/18/2005 @ 3:28pm

  161. MEANGREEN

    So how does he filibuster Alito?

    Posted by Mask at 12/18/2005 @ 4:20pm

  162. Wow. Just out of curiosity I put Rese into my short "ignore" list and returned to the page I had been reading, and there was nothing there. Them is some looooong posts, Rese! Doesn't mean you're entirely wrong, but seems to me if you boil all those words down to a couple or three principles you've got the parts of the picture that count, the picture won't change, and all the rest of the who-shot-john comprises details of interest mainly to honest prosecutors. If there are any.

    Principles, I said. Okay: (1) The very wealthy run everything and do it to benefit themselves, not anyone else. (2) Those with mad appetites for power are useful tools because they are biddable. (3) Second-level functionaries like cold-eyed lawyers and political appointees are useful because they can be directly controlled and are relatively cheap to buy and anyway the cost is mostly socialized (read: borne by the middle class) like roads, medical care for WalMart employees and subsidies for corporate farms.

    In the face of all that, every once in awhile a free people may glance away from their TV opiates long enough to see (or, as someone in this forum put it, smell) what is going on. When it appears people are about to stand up on their hind legs for a change, the power-hungry become less tractable because they're afraid of being held accountable. And so you see bright moments, like the Senate blocking the unPatriot Act pending its being dressed up in somewaht less tyrannical language. Or until the Super Bowl distracts everybody with close scores or halftime nipples, or something else equally important happens. Then it's back to business as usual.

    My point is that the war is never over. It is ALWAYS a contest between the "I've Got Mine Now Gimme Yours" crowd and the rest of us. It is good information and measured opinions like what we get from the Nation, and the whole range of dialog in an Internet-enabled forum like we see here, that gives the rest of us any hope at all.

    So I'm gonna take Rese back off my "ignore" list. His info is too interesting to just skip because it interferes with my cherished hours of TV sitcoms. But dang, man, them's a LOT of words, all written out and requiring reading and everything.

    Bloppy, if you're around, send some of that love over this way. I need the encouragement.

    Craig

    Posted by cmenefee at 12/18/2005 @ 6:21pm

  163. Craig

    I had to put Rese into "Limbo" due sheerly to volumetrics as well. Every now and then he pares it down and then...BOOM

    Oh well....

    Posted by leftofcenter at 12/18/2005 @ 7:45pm

  164. Not to take this blog in a completely different direction (well, yes, but not like the neocons who do it to avoid being bitch-slapped), but:

    Johannes,

    You mentioned the Finger Lakes about 1000 posts ago (and I ignore Rese - man, cut the pastes down and I think I'd read 'em) and I am also a citizen of the wonderful wine-making region known as the Finger Lakes. I don't wan't your exact address, but how about a general area? I teach in Seneca Falls and live...well, let's just say near Bristol Mountain. Again, sorry to the rest for comandeering a part of this blog.

    And is it me, or is there much less right-wing babble the more the right wing icons take it on the chin?

    Posted by Turk33 at 12/18/2005 @ 8:19pm

  165. LeftOfCenter

    A friend tells me he has to take a break now and then from watching the "news" as presented by the networks, because if he doesn't his head will explode. Maybe that's what happens to Rese. A periodic head explosion from simply paying too much attention.

    Rese,

    Sorry 'bout talking about you as if you weren't here. If you are here, I hope you'll forgive me. How's your head?

    Craig

    Posted by cmenefee at 12/18/2005 @ 8:26pm

  166. I was reading at Huffingtonpost.com the reception given by the troops to Cheney on his Iraq visit. The officers were cheerleaders, but the enlisted troops were underwhelmed. When Cheney used the applause line:"These colors don't run", there was only uncomfortable silence. When I hear supporters of the war warn against hurting the troops morale by criticizing the war, I say troop morale is already low. They want to come home. I want them home. That would really be a morale booster.

    Posted by philbq at 12/18/2005 @ 10:45pm

  167. PHIL Cheney wasn't there to boost moral.He does nothing unless it earns him a buck or two. On to a happier subject How about FINEGOLD AND MOYERS AS THE DEM TICKET. Don't know if any of you have seen Bill Moyers from the "NOW" show on PBS. He use to be on it until republicans decided he didn't lick Bush's boots enough and had him removed. Surprise,surprise the new guy doesn't either.

    Posted by BusyHands at 12/19/2005 @ 02:20am

  168. They just wanted to know what he was thinking. [tinyurl.com]

    It's still nice, though, that our government demands freedom of thought in Cuba, isn't it?

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/19/2005 @ 02:22am

  169. And is it me, or is there much less right-wing babble the more the right wing icons take it on the chin?

    Posted by TURK33 12/18/2005 @ 8:19pm

    Even the goosesteppers here are beginning to realize that idiocy is no longer the coin of the realm.

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/19/2005 @ 02:26am

  170. FROMREDBIRD

    That is a gross misrepresentation of what I said, but thats you tactic. Hey bud got news for you, the President has wide-ranging authority when it comes to National Security, and the incidnets are POST 911.

    Posted by CPT 12/17/2005 @ 09:42am

    It's really comforting to know that people like you who take an oath to defend our Constitution when they join the US Army don't have a clue as to what the purpose of a Constitution is.

    Why can't you be a man and drink Pabst instead of that fruity French stuff?

    Posted by CPT 12/17/2005 @ 02:01am

    No, it wasn't really CPT.

    Posted by FROMREDBIRD 12/17/2005 @ 02:09am

    Hey I did not post that! Are you getting that desparate, that you have to make up crap? Pretty sad FROMREDBIRD!

    Posted by CPT 12/17/2005 @ 09:50am

    And, doesn't have any sense of humor, either. Or, was the only one who couldn't figure out that it was a joke.

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/19/2005 @ 02:39am

  171. REDBIRD, WAKE UP. INDEED, THE IRAQ WAR WAS BASED ON FALSE PRETENSES.

    HOORAY FOR DEMOCRAY AND FOR A FEW PATRIOTS LIKE FEINGOLD WHO OPPOSE THE PATRIOT ACT'S SECTIONS THAT ARE TOO EXTREME AND NOT NECESSARY.

    Posted by MAD PLATO 12/17/2005 @ 11:05am

    You're referring to . . . ?

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/19/2005 @ 02:43am

  172. Here's something interesting

    I just got done watching the Chris Matthews Show. One of the "Tell me something I don't knows" was that Jack Abermoff is trying to plea bargain.

    There was instant speculation about the number and size of fish he would have to give up.

    It was stated, "This is going to be a good Christmas for the democrats."

    Posted by WILL C. 12/18/2005 @ 03:22am

    I hope this is as good as the fish and loaves that Jesus produced.

    Posted by fromredbird at 12/19/2005 @ 02:48am

  173. FromRed

    Boy, can't even borrow a library book with the Gestapo showing up....we should all be afriad these days it seems. Wonder which ones of us are being watched right now, or which ones are 'watchers"?

    Posted by leftofcenter at 12/19/2005 @ 12:54pm

  174. Well it's clear that George Bush believes he has the right to do all the surveilance without advising congress or without a judge.

    Posted by sophizgood at 12/19/2005 @ 9:04pm

  175. The machinations of the Bush Administration are just getting started.

    Posted by sophizgood at 12/19/2005 @ 9:04pm

  176. turk, I am a resident of NYC, of a neighborhood called Washington Heights. I am a booster of Long Island North Fork wines and also of Finger Lakes wine. I also belong to a community supported agriculture group

    Posted by johannesrolf at 12/19/2005 @ 9:25pm

  177. It's still nice, though, that our government demands freedom of thought in Cuba, isn't it? Posted by FROMREDBIRD 12/19/2005 @ 02:22am | ignore this person

    Redbird,

    I am familiar with a similar incident in this neck of the woods. It too involved some students doing research. Apparently they hit some web sites that are monitored by Bush's goons.

    How much more abuse of our civil liberties will we all tolerate before we push back?

    Posted by seattlescribe at 12/20/2005 @ 01:15am

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