Buzzflash
del.icio.us
Digg
Facebook
Mixx it!
RedditThe 2000 presidential election was an in-broad-daylight assault on both the concept of democracy and its practice in the United States. Democrat Al Gore received 543,895 more votes nationwide than Republican George Bush. Unfortunately, because American presidential elections are not decided by the voters but by an antiquated and anti-democratic Electoral College, that didn't mean much. Nor did it mean much that a clear plurality of voters in the contested state of Florida went to the polls with the intention of giving that state's electoral votes to Gore, and with those electoral votes the presidency. The documented chicanery of the president's brother, former Florida Governor Jeb Bush, and his campaign co-chair, former Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris, in combination with the machinations of a Bush-Cheney political machine headed by political czar Karl Rove, created the opening for a U.S. Supreme Court intervention that prevented an honest count of the ballots and installed Bush in the White House.
NAACP President Kwesi Mfume said bluntly, and correctly, that in 2000 the high court "handed over" the presidency to Bush.
The 2004 presidential election saw a modestly less blatant, yet equally concerning, assault. Pre-election manipulation of the registration and voting processes in the key swing state of Ohio by another Bush campaign co-chair, Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, made it possible for the Republican ticket to secure an election night "result" that was of dubious legitimacy, and circumstances taht made the ensuing recount an inconclusive exercise in frustration. Thus, Ohio's electoral votes and the presidency went to Bush.
But Blackwell and his fellow partisans could not hide the reality that, as Lou Harris, the father of modern political polling, explained: "Ohio was as dirty an election as America has ever seen. You look at the turnout and votes in individual precincts, compared to the historic patterns in those counties, and you can tell where the discrepancies are. They stand out like a sore thumb.''
In 2000, the official response to the Florida crisis was as disjointed as it was ineffectual. While Gore aides, Democratic operatives and some union and civil rights leaders pushed back, a lack of urgency, focus and strategy made them no match for Rove and his operatives.
In 2004, it was actually worse. Where Gore and his team had fought, however ineffectively, for an accurate count, Democratic nominee John Kerry conceded and refused to back a recount. It fell to grassroots activists, led by Green Party campaigners and eventually key members of the Congressional Black Caucus, to mount challenges that never attained the media coverage that should have been accorded their struggle.
The bottom line from both 2000 and 2004 is this: Smart, engaged activists from across the country were caught unprepared for monumental struggles over not just clean elections and electoral votes but, in a very real sense, the future of the republic.
Good people tried to intervene. But it was too little, too late. Mistakes made in the hours and days after the presidential elections in each of those two years would haunt the process to its conclusion -- or, to be more precise, to an inconclusive moment when power would be allocated without legitimacy.
Will it be any different this year?
Let's be clear about a couple things:
1. The nation's voting systems are as disjointed and contradictory as ever. No two states are apply the same standards for registering, voting, counting or recounring ballots. Thus, an American's chances of getting his or her vote cast and counted varies from location to location.
2. There is a good deal of evidence from Michigan, Montana, Wisconsin and other battleground (or potentially close) states to suggest that this election will be characterized by confusion, conflict and challenges to the results.
What should smart activists be doing?
Preparing to say, without caution or compromise, that they will not sit idly by and allow another presidential election to be gamed.
That's what the Rev. Jesse Jackson, populist leader Jim Hightower, author Barbara Ehrenreich, singer Holly Near, activist Tom Hayden, Rabbi Michael Lerner and other activists, academics and writers -- including this author -- were thinking when we signed on to the call to action for the "No More Stolen Elections!" campaign that launches this week.
The campaign asks Americans to take a simple pledge:
"I remember Florida 2000 and Ohio 2004, and I am willing to take action in 2008 if the election is stolen again.
I support efforts to protect the right to vote leading up to and on Election Day, November 4th.
I pledge to join nationwide pro-democracy protests starting on November 5th, either in my community, in key states where fraud occurred, or in Washington, D.C..
I pledge: No More Stolen Elections!"
This is not a Democratic or a Republican pledge. It is not a liberal or a conservative pledge. It is an American pledge, a commitment to defend our democracy -- and our future.
George Bush assumed the presidency in a lawless moment when the structures and traditions of our electoral process were disregarded in favor of an "orderly" transfer of power. Bush took that power and used it, again and again, in a manner that dismissed the rule of law as an inconvenience to be worked around rather than expected.
No matter who our next president may be, he must come to the Oval Office not just with power but with legitimacy.
The "No More Stolen Elections!" campaign is an essential corrective for our troubled electoral processes and for our troubled republic.
To learn more about the campaign, the call to action and the plan to implement it, visit the www.nomorestolenelections.org website and sign on for a democratic election, an honest vote count and a legitimate president.
Share this article
John Nichols
Breaking news and analysis on political, social, economic and cultural activism that mainstream media commonly ignore.
- Atrios
- Arts and Letters Daily
- The Caucus
- Campus Progress
- Crooks and Liars
- The Daily Gotham
- Daily Kos
- Echidne of the Snakes
- Ezra Klein
- FAIR
- Feministe
- Feministing
- Firedoglake
- Glenn Greenwald
- Gothamist
- In these Times
- Hendrik Hertzberg
- Huffington Post
- Hullabaloo
- Matthew Yglesias
- Media Matters
- Mother Jones
- My DD
- New York Review of Books
- Openleft
- Pam's House Blend
- Pandagon
- Political Wire
- The Progressive
- RaceWire
- Real Clear Politics
- Roberto Lovato
- Romenesko
- Swing State Project
- Talking Points Memo
- Ta-Nehisi Coates
- Tapped
- Tech President
- Tompaine
- The Washington Note
- Utne Reader
- Wonkette
- ZNet
RSS
Republicans have blocked legislation to do something about our broken voting system! I wonder why? I do believe if enough Dems get in, they will pass legislation to fix this problem.
Posted by Angellight at 10/08/2008 @ 6:19pm
This is why Obama's victory needs to be (and I expect will be) so decisive that tricks and games will simply not be possible. It's time to end the eight year tyranny that has been the Bush Adminstration and turn a new page, not on the economy but on the assault on the middle class that we've all had to endure.
Obama/Biden '08
Posted by DGKusel at 10/08/2008 @ 6:32pm
It is frustrating to read this.
In Scott McClellan's recent book, he commented in an early chapter on going to Florida to deal with the events after Election Day.
Some physical review/counting of ballots had begun in rooms where there were both Democrat and Republican election officials. Mr. McClellan mentioned how he and other pro-Bush officials noticed at one point that the floor was littered with these "chads".
So "chads" were somehow becoming separated from the ballots..... which looked suspicious to the Republicans, like perhaps Democrat officials were tampering with them.
This, as I said, was in a book celebrated by the Left because it supposedly showcased all the "wrongs" of the Bush administrations.
As I started reading the book and got to this chapter about the election, I was amazed... I thought... here is a book "feted" by the Left that undercuts the "election was stolen" theme by the Left!
When I read the chronicle of the events of 2000, it shows:
1. No disenfranchisement has ever been proven.
2. The Democrats did not make a legal case for the continuation of manual recounting of ballots. A machine recount was done but Gore's lawyers did not make a sufficient case to allow for the ruling of manual recounting.
3. When the Florida court said go ahead, this was out of the bounds of it's constitutional authority. It was judicial activism, not justice according to the constitution.
4. The Supreme Court rightfully overturned the Florida court ruling.
5. Although not required to do so, studies have show that had the Bush team allowed the recounts, George W. Bush would have won anyway.
So no election was stolen, yet articles such as this on the Nation keep coming anyway. The Left refuses to accept a fair result.
Posted by sjchermak at 10/08/2008 @ 6:37pm
republicans are anti-democratic, and that's small d democratic.
they hate america and democracy, since they seem to routinely support illegal activities that prevent democratic elections from functioning.
so dems must win by a large majority to avoid being illegally cheated out of the right to choose their leaders.
and this raid on nevada acorn offices...whats that all about? legit or the handiwork of some republican operatives plotting again against american democracy in favor of softcore stealth rightwing republican obverse democratic fascism?
but not so softcore in results - look at that big bill for iraq...would have been nice to have that money or credit to deal with the current economic mess...
but the republicans don't really care about you schmuks...they just need enough of your votes to make a stolen election seem plausible to the disconnected moron. the real power brokers of the republican party WANT an impoverished, ignorant, scared populace because they see that as far preferable to the opposite, which might question their motives more critically and lash out not at their fellow traumatized shcmuks but at the real enemy - their own rightwing satano-aynrando christofascist elites...
Posted by dexter666 at 10/08/2008 @ 6:39pm
the rightwing elite in this country have an agenda.
they wish to, little by little, transform themselves into an untitled aristocracy every bit as vicious, priviledged, undemocratic, and entrenched as the rightwing elites of latin america.
the iraq debacle was a classic stealth fascist move...distract the marching morons with a land war far away, taking advantage of their love of country, and in the process enrich themselves with war profiteering (with the tax money of the mass of schmuks, thereby vampirically and parasitically draining and weakening them as a result).
and now palin and mccain, smiling lying fascists themselves, tromp about the country trying to whip angry schmuk fascists into a furious murderous frenzy in hope that one of the nuts will...you know...
rid them of this troublesome mulatto...
Posted by dexter666 at 10/08/2008 @ 6:49pm
the rightwing christo-fascists, hepped up on satano-aynrando anti-democratic elitist ideology, dream of a day when their trust fund wonder progeny will slyly (and eventually brutally) live out their overmen fantasies, served by a legion of desperate schmuks who sell their souls to survive and turn desperately on those of their fellows, aided by those blessed "limo-liberal" inheritors of the tradition of high minded moral patrician reformers stretching back to the doomed brothers gracchi of ancient rome.
never does history repeat itself but ever does it bear a strong familial resemblance to itself...
indeed do all human social institutions of significant size resemble feudalism in their structure. look at our own federal system.
but some actually wish to become hereditary feudal overlords, reactionary despots who leech the blood sweat and hard scraped money from their charges to whom they feel no sense whatsoever of noblese oblige and at whom they sneer when not seen by any but their personal and lapdoggedly loyal retainers...
Posted by dexter666 at 10/08/2008 @ 7:01pm
Why are these posts appearing in italics? Did I fall asleep and wake up in font hell?
Posted by chaoszen at 10/08/2008 @ 7:17pm
"limo liberals" - rightwing cryptofascist doublespeak for "patrician reformers", those noble souls of means whose loyalty is to their country and their fellow men regardless of class or means...
unable to advance their cause by arguing facts, they have poored buzillions into buying politicians, buying up media, establishing a network of privately owned propaganda factories...all in an effort to keep the people of the nation confused, addled, misinformed, scared, and angry, often at the very folks who struggle hardest to defend their democracy...
steal an election here and there, corrupt those who oppose them, and reap the fruit of the ignorant cynicism that creeps into the hearts and minds of those they endeavor to enserf...eventually the schmuk will lose faith in democracy and any sense of fairness or hope (that is not contingent upon serving them), and cynically, self destructively side with their OWNERS...
but in that their entire evil ideology is indeed based upon untenable lies, and their own demigodly arrogant self image blinds them to their own mistakes and excesses, we find ourselves in a rare opportunity to defeat them for a while, at least...
because the ONLY way they can be truly opposed is for enough of those they wish to enthrall to become informed of their true nature and desires...and to stand up and oppose them...
their excesses have ripped a hole in thier think tank doublespeak surreality dropcloth and nothing short of convincing some crazed lapdog shcmuk to commit the untinkable will stop the enemies of their wickedness from assuming power...
but again they are wrong, for in their desperation and amid the collapse of their self serving fantasies...they don't understand how exposed their true natures have become to the schmuks...
Posted by dexter666 at 10/08/2008 @ 7:20pm
Posted by chaoszen at 10/08/2008 @ 7:17pm | ignore this person | warn this person
no - nichols, the hardest working blogger in "the nation", forgot to tap this in at the end of his blog - </i>
Posted by dexter666 at 10/08/2008 @ 7:22pm
I have a question. Suppose that for mental health reasons, or perhaps in the case of Palin's legal problem, there is a change at the last minute of either or both on the Republican ticket..too late to change the ballots sent to the precincts and with most of the early votes already cast. Can a legal challenge be made in court by the Republican party, thus suspending the results?
This is an indication of where John McCain was at today, calling people "prisoners."
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/McCain_flub_My_fellow_prisoners_1008.html
Posted by hrayovac at 10/08/2008 @ 7:27pm
Posted by hrayovac at 10/08/2008 @ 7:27pm | ignore this person | warn this person
nice story...your scenario sounds kind of impossible, but who knows?
Posted by dexter666 at 10/08/2008 @ 7:31pm
Enough about the 2008 election, it's over.
What I want to know is this:
Will Obama come out of the gate with the far to the left stuff. Get it passed and take huge losses in the 2010 midterms?
Or will he govern more like Clinton after Newt took over the house? Centrist ideas with the occasional bone for the left. Keeping his majorities in congress. ?
After 8 years of Bush, he could get some real lefty stuff through the first two years. A repeal of the second amendment and socialized medicine just to name two.
Hopefully he'll go for the big score early, it will make things much more interesting!
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/08/2008 @ 7:33pm
oh, forgot...
NADER/GONZALES '08 NADER/GONZALES '08 NADER/GONZALES '08 NADER/GONZALES '08 NADER/GONZALES '08 NADER/GONZALES '08 NADER/GONZALES '08 NADER/GONZALES '08 NADER/GONZALES '08 NADER/GONZALES '08 NADER/GONZALES '08 NADER/GONZALES '08 NADER/GONZALES '08 NADER/GONZALES '08 NADER/GONZALES '08 NADER/GONZALES '08
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/08/2008 @ 7:37pm
and...
in the 1980's john mccain served in the board of directors of the world anti-communist league - a hotbed of latin american death squad terrorists (orwellianly referred to as "freedom fighters" by the happy fascist, reagan), real live ww2 era nazis and wannabe neo-nazis, scientific racists, and a plethora of sketchy, undemocratic, fascists (like all rabid anti-communist movemets).
so john mccain, a gold digging philanderer who dumped his old blondie barbie wife for a younger, richer one, served as leadership of a group which included terrorists, nazis, rabid anti-semites, criminals and rightwing racists...
hmmm...
who IS this john mccain?
Posted by dexter666 at 10/08/2008 @ 7:40pm
"The 2000 presidential election was an in-broad-daylight assault on both the concept of democracy and its practice in the United States."
I'll say. The Dems tried to hijack Florida by initiating recounts in three- only three- heavily Democrat counties. Voters were trotted to say that "they knew, they just knew that they marked their ballots wrong". Rightly, the Supremes saw though this travesty, and halted the recount, citing the equal protection clause for the benefit of all the other Floridians who weren't given the benefit of a recount.
BTW, I haven't heard any complaints about 2006. I guess when the Dems win, there couldn't possibly be voter fraud.
Posted by twillie at 10/08/2008 @ 7:42pm
twillie-It's much more difficult to steal congressional elections than a POTUS election,for obvious reasons.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/08/2008 @ 7:45pm
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/08/2008 @ 7:37pm | ignore this person | warn this person
hey - we know you are a republican or aynrandian libertarian pretending to be a naderite in some kind of lame attempt at convincing people to not vote obama or in a slightly less lame attempt at mocking humor.
but perhaps you WILL influence a few morons, so enjoy...
Posted by dexter666 at 10/08/2008 @ 7:46pm
BTW, I haven't heard any complaints about 2006. I guess when the Dems win, there couldn't possibly be voter fraud.
Posted by twillie at 10/08/2008 @ 7:42pm | ignore this person | warn this person
maybe when the dems win...there WAS NO voter fraud...
but go ahead and insinuate the cynicism augmenting lie that all sides are equally iniquitous, so if iniquity offends, just dont vote at all and bitch in coffee shops about how everything sux so whats the difference?
cynicism, ignorance, misinformation...best friends the republican party ever had!!!
Posted by dexter666 at 10/08/2008 @ 7:53pm
Posted by sjchermak at 10/08/2008 @ 6:37pm
Posted by twillie at 10/08/2008 @ 7:42pm
Just a basic question...
would the "conservative movement" have done better (by now)...if Gore had become President, instead of Dubya?
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/08/2008 @ 8:49pm
NADER/GONZALES '08 NADER/GONZALES '08
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/08/2008 @ 7:37pm | ignore this person | warn this person
.
You know, it doesn't matter how many time you post it...
NADER/GONZALES '08
...still adds up to a wasted vote that ONLY can help bring about McCain/Palin.
Posted by Lillian at 10/08/2008 @ 9:26pm
dexter666,
Ayn Rand!? Hommes I was educated in the public schools of the south. How in the hell am I supposed to know who Ayn Rand is? (Athough I do agree with her views on the absurdity of religion and I am rather selfish.)
Not a GOPer either.
(How about schizophrenic anarchist?)
I voted NADER in 04 and will vote NADER in 08.
OK, how about this? If you live in a state that is sure to be a blowout for either candidate. Alaska, New York, California, Texas, vote NADER/GONZALES!!
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/08/2008 @ 10:01pm
Bleeding, given the article and fact that vote fraud is by far a risk for Obama, let's amend your otherwise reasonable suggestion to elections AFTER the vote fraud schemes have been unearthed, the evildoer's punished and the problems fixed.
Also, let's get Ralph working inside in another form, as a cabinet level consumer czar?
Posted by winyahn at 10/08/2008 @ 10:11pm
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/08/2008 @ 10:01pm | ignore this person | warn this person
i hear you quacking...
lets try...south carolina, mississippiiii, the dakotas, and a few more such creationist gop strongholds, eh?
the only thing 4 more years of republican administration (which is what we would get if enough voted for nader) would bring us is economic ruin, international hatred, and a civil war...
my only REAL problem with that scenario is that i live in a red state and would surely be stuck on the fascist side and unable to enjoy the benefits of a blue state/canadian union!!!
but sure, guy...yer a real live naderite...gotcha...
Posted by dexter666 at 10/08/2008 @ 10:17pm
I wouldn't assume that Obama is going to win--too many whites may be telling pollsters they intend to vote for him when they know damn well they won't. I am voting absentee in Ohio like two other members of my family (my kids) and we can only hope that this time our votes will be properly counted. I am still angry about '04--that was a dismal evening--knew something was wrong but not what...yes, Dexter, I'm sure some people do view Obama as a "troublesome mulatto"...funny thing is that he's not all that progressive...as Tom Hayden says, we'll have to start the demos the day after the election if he wins.
Posted by mimsky at 10/08/2008 @ 10:35pm
I got a hunch that the fix is already in the machines here in Florida. just have to look at the "Voting Machines"; an optical scanner sitting atop a black trash can with the same old 'Diebold' company programable computer sitting on the back of the cart. This doesn't inspire confidence in my vote being counted.
Posted by rrtreerat at 10/08/2008 @ 10:53pm
Dexter, I'm sure some people do view Obama as a "troublesome mulatto"...funny thing is that he's not all that progressive...as Tom Hayden says, we'll have to start the demos the day after the election if he wins.
Posted by mimsky at 10/08/2008 @ 10:35pm | ignore this person | warn this person
hard to say. he's steered center for the general, but who knows what he will do if "the new great depression" is indeed underway?
but beware "the new business plot" (http://tinyurl.com/2ptmgp) cause these crypto fascist bastards are vicious, undemocratic, and still powerful.
Posted by dexter666 at 10/08/2008 @ 11:10pm
sorry for the repost but,
LIVE HARD! DIE BOLD!
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/08/2008 @ 11:11pm
sorry for the repost but,
LIVE HARD! DIE BOLD!
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/08/2008 @ 11:11pm | ignore this person | warn this person
apology NOT accepted!!!!
;)
Posted by dexter666 at 10/08/2008 @ 11:22pm
dexter666,
Don't worry you'll get what you deserve......
NADER/GONZALES '08
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/08/2008 @ 11:23pm
Don't worry you'll get what you deserve......
NADER/GONZALES '08
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/08/2008 @ 11:23pm | ignore this person | warn this person
eventually we all do, but not nececarily in this life...
but what? the sight of thousands of treasonous traitorous fascist corpses hanging from every street light?*
nah...just a few...the rest can make lamps and ashtrays in re-education centers and hospitals for the politically insane...
;)
an homage to the late, great theodore gottlieb - aka "brother theodore", my all time favorite regular letterman guest and bizarre performance artist...
"You can train a rat. Yes, if you work for hours and days and months and years, you can train a rat. But when you're done, all you'll have is a trained rat!"
"I am what you call a "controversial figure". People either hate me or they despise me."
"What this country needs, and I'm not joking, is a dictator. I feel the time is right, and the place congenial, and I am ready. I will be strict but just. Heads will roll, and corpses will swing from every lamppost."
"I've gazed into the abyss and the abyss gazed into me, and neither of us liked what we saw."
"In this best of all possible worlds, everything is in a hell of a mess."
Posted by dexter666 at 10/08/2008 @ 11:41pm
hey rio,
are you familiar with the acorns of the burr oak?
take a look:
http://k41.pbase.com/u17/ergo/upload/5804766.zBURROAK02ps.jpg
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/09/2008 @ 12:08am
Posted by RedRiver_. at 10/09/2008 @ 12:42am
Oklahoma is going to kick your ass this weekend.
Posted by Benchrest at 10/09/2008 @ 12:47am
The nod to the real activists of Ohio in 2004 and others is appreciated, though the "Voter's Bill of Rights" does not reflect an understanding of their message or learning since 2004. The fundamental problem, not addressed at all by the "Bill of RIghts" call for "open source" computer software is that computerized voting is inherently and inescapably invisible and secret, and as to the presidency, the ticking clock of 3 USC section 5 means, as every serious legal commentator has noted, that a recount (even if paper ballots exist) can not be finished within the allotted 35 days. We are thus stuck with secret counts on corporate computers, and recounts are an illusion in the presidency, and a longshot in other races (The failure to note the 2 criminal convictions in Ohio for rigging the 2004 presidential recount, followed by no contest pleas, is disturbing in its omission).
The government does not GRANT us our rights they are God-given or arise by Nature's law (take your pick, everyone's covered). THe notion that an amendment is needed to create a right to vote turns SELF-government on its head. Whether honored or violated, there is no legitimate rule except by We the People, no matter what anyone says. This question is so settled that its part of the Universal declaration of Human Rights, effective worldwide. We are ALREADY EMPOWERED, we just need to exercise that power and realize, then shout, that acts in derogation of that power are VOID and of no force and effect. Ceding our very right to vote to the Constitution makes it into a political football instead of an inalienable right, re-opening the age-old question of who is "We" in "We the People". This battle was won for universal suffrage long ago, we should never pretend otherwise.
Posted by PR_Finn at 10/09/2008 @ 03:18am
Interesting that Nichols should be complaining about voter fraud when Obama's minions in ACORN have been caught in several key states like Ohio and Nevada submitting large numbers of patently phony voter registration cards. Investigations and arrests are ongoing, but since the fraud is so obvious (e.g., one ACORN office in Nevada registered the entire Dallas Cowboys football team) it would not be surprising to see a widespread pattern of voter fraud in favor of Obama this election. Perhaps that's why Nichols published this article? It's a longstanding tactic of far left wing groups to accuse their opponents of illegal tactics as a way of covering and/or justifying their own.
Posted by pontificus at 10/09/2008 @ 03:29am
Comeback. Wednesday, October 08, 2008 MORE ACORN FRAUD! Kansas City Officials Find Hundreds of Bogus Registrations!
Like Barack Obama says... "The ACORN does not fall far from the tree."
Indeed.
Tonight Kansas City officials are reporting that ACORN officials have turned in possibly hundreds of bogus registrations in Missouri. The AP reported:
Officials in Missouri, a hard-fought jewel in the presidential race, are sifting through possibly hundreds of questionable or duplicate voter-registration forms submitted by an advocacy group that has been accused of election fraud in other states.
Charlene Davis, co-director of the election board in Jackson County, where Kansas City is, said the fraudulent registration forms came from the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN. She said they were bogging down work Wednesday, the final day Missourians could register to vote.
"I don't even know the entire scope of it because registrations are coming in so heavy," Davis said. "We have identified about 100 duplicates, and probably 280 addresses that don't exist, people who have driver's license numbers that won't verify or Social Security numbers that won't verify. Some have no address at all."
Posted by pontificus at 10/09/2008 @ 03:41am
Yes, indeed, it does look like electoral fraud could be a big problem this election, thanks Mr. Nichols for bringing it up:
"Nevada state authorities seized records and computers Tuesday from the Las Vegas office of an organization that tries to get low-income people registered to vote, after fielding complaints of voter fraud.
Bob Walsh, spokesman for the Nevada secretary of state's office, told FOXNews.com the raid was prompted by ongoing complaints about "erroneous" registration information being submitted by the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, also called ACORN.
The group was submitting the information through a voter sign-up drive known as Project Vote.
"Some of them used nonexistent names, some of them used false addresses and some of them were duplicates of previously filed applications," Walsh said, describing the complaints, which largely came from the registrar in Clark County, Nev.
Secretary of State Ross Miller said the fraudulent registrations included forms for the starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys football team.
"Tony Romo is not registered to vote in the state of Nevada, and anybody trying to pose as Terrell Owens won't be able to cast a ballot on Nov. 4," Miller said."
Posted by pontificus at 10/09/2008 @ 03:45am
Posted by sjchermak at 10/08/2008 @ 6:37pm |
You raise some interesting points about Florida 2000.
What is the source of your statement that a complete recount showed Bush the winner? I recall reading that the exact opposite was true.
I think we can both agree, however, that the Florida voting was a complete and total screwup. Chads falling out of data processing cards would only be the beginning. Allowing a Secretary of State responsible for running fair and impartial elections be the campaign chairman of one of the parties was another breach of good protocol.
And Florida, alas, may not have been the only state where procedures were less-than-perfect.
Once again, this is a national problem that is being treated as a state's problem. National elections should be set up and monitored by rules that apply to every community. Such elections should come under Congressional control, and let each state determine how it wants to run the elections for statewide offices.
While Congress is setting up new election rules, I would hope that it would also act to do away with the electoral college. This is an outdated procedure that was bundled into the Constitution as one more sop to the smaller states to get them to come and join our new nation. It wasn't really fair then, and it's certainly not fair now.
Posted by elcomputo at 10/09/2008 @ 06:02am
Posted by elcomputo at 10/09/2008 @ 06:02am
BBC along with a few other organizations did the re-count and included the 'legal' dem. absenty ballots and excluded the illegal rep. absenty ballots which was oposite of what the state had done, plus they did the whole state and not just a few cherry picked counties. Only one county had a real 'chad problem' along with a 'butterfly ballot' then there was the 'Felon list' that was provided by a Bush family member in Texas. There is a whole list of things that were done on and after that day that were done by the rep. & dem. parties and their corp. paymasters. But all that is old news
I agree with you on the second half of what you wrote and it is well with in the scope of the constitution for it to be done. And we still neeed the choice of 'None of the Above' on all of the ballots.
Posted by rrtreerat at 10/09/2008 @ 08:27am
would the "conservative movement" have done better (by now)...if Gore had become President, instead of Dubya? Posted by Maskdelta at 10/08/2008 @ 8:49pm
Don't know. I know the country would be alot worse off. But, the Oscar and Peace Prize would have gone to someone more deserving.
Posted by twillie at 10/09/2008 @ 10:58am
twillie-It's much more difficult to steal congressional elections than a POTUS election,for obvious reasons. Posted by i'm nobody at 10/08/2008 @ 7:45pm
Maybe not so obvious. Why don't you enlighten us?
Posted by twillie at 10/09/2008 @ 10:59am
twillie-How many people run for congress?How many run for POTUS?You only have to screw with one or two close states to cheat in a POTUS election,but would have to cheat in a multitude of places to affect congressional elections.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/09/2008 @ 11:28am
gupdog-There won't be enough people who will claim to be Obama supporters,but vote McCain to give the election to McCain,but you knew that already.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/09/2008 @ 11:52am
it's on yahoo news today - six swing states have apparently broken the law by kicking voters off registration rolls within 90 days of an election. in spite of the truly massive registration drives of this year, in these states for every 1 voter added to the rolls in the last 2 months, 2 have been kicked off. according to the new york times, this was "not intentional," and just a "mistake." give me a break. the criminality of the last two elections aside, this is happening in a country in which making it easy for people to register and get to the polls has always been seen as beyond the pale. remember the controversy of "motor-voter" registration? remember that registration at welfare offices was dropped from the bill as a "compromise"? the issue of who gets to vote may have become whose vote gets counted, but the polling booth has always been contested terrain in our society. and in recent years, small-d democrats have been losing the fight.
Posted by Jason Rhodes at 10/09/2008 @ 12:07pm
Gupdog's posts are quite ironic?
Remember how the Right always said "You liberals are just WHINING (about 2000 and 2004) about stolen elections....you just can't admit that the people don't support you anymore!!!"
and now?
The Right is already trying to build its case that "2008 was STOLEN!!!!!"
heheh
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/09/2008 @ 12:13pm
October 08, 2008 The Obama-Ayers Connection By Dick Morris
In the best tradition of Bill Clinton's famous declaration that the answer to the question of whether or not he was having an affair with Monica depended on "what the definition of ‘is' is," Barack Obama was clearly splitting hairs and concealing the truth when he said that William Ayers was "just a guy who lives in my neighborhood."
The records of the administration of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge (CAC), released last week by the University of Illinois, show that the Ayers-Obama connection was, in fact, an intimate collaboration and that it led to the only executive or administrative experience in Obama's life.
After Walter Annenberg's foundation offered several hundred million dollars to American public schools in the mid-'90s, William Ayers applied for $50 million for Chicago. The purpose of his application was to secure funds to "raise political consciousness" in Chicago's public schools. After he won the grant, Ayers's group chose Barack Obama to distribute the money. Between 1995 and 1999, Obama distributed the $50 million and raised another $60 million from other civic groups to augment it. In doing so, he was following Ayers's admonition to grant the funds to "external" organizations, like American Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) to pair with schools and conduct programs to radicalize the students and politicize them.
Reading, math and science achievement tests counted for little in the CAC grants, but the school's success in preaching a radical political agenda determined how much money they got.
Posted by pontificus at 10/09/2008 @ 12:13pm
Posted by Jason Rhodes at 10/09/2008 @ 12:07pm
Wow, you mean the entire Dallas Cowboys starting lineup really DID register in Las Vegas through ACORN, and the evil Republicans aren't letting them vote???!!!
Posted by pontificus at 10/09/2008 @ 12:15pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/09/2008 @ 12:13pm
"The Right is already trying to build its case that "2008 was STOLEN!!!!!""
Well, I would say it's actually local prosecutors who are building that case. This being an actual REAL case, as opposed to those that turned out to be a figment of your imagination in 2000 and 2004.
Posted by pontificus at 10/09/2008 @ 12:18pm
Barack Obama should have run screaming at the sight of William Ayers and his wife, Bernadette Dohrn. Ayers has admitted bombing the U.S. Capitol building and the Pentagon, and his wife was sent to prison for failing to cooperate in solving the robbery of a Brink's armored car in which two police officers were killed. Far from remorse, Ayers told The New York Times in September 2001 that he "wished he could have done more."
Ayers only avoided conviction when the evidence against him turned out to be contained in illegally obtained wiretaps by the FBI. He was, in fact, guilty as sin.
That Obama should ally himself with Ayers is almost beyond understanding. The former terrorist had not repented of his views and the education grants he got were expressly designed to further them.
So let's sum up Obama's Chicago connections. His chief financial supporter was Tony Rezko, now on his way to federal prison. His spiritual adviser and mentor was the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, of "God damn America" fame. And the guy who got him his only administrative job and put him in charge of doling out $50 million is William Ayers, a terrorist who was a domestic Osama bin Laden in his youth.
Even apart from the details of the Obama/Ayers connection, two key points emerge:
a) Obama lied and misled the American people in his description of his relationship with Ayers as casual and arm's-length; and
b) Obama was consciously guided by Ayers's radical philosophy, rooted in the teachings of leftist Saul Alinksy, in his distribution of CAC grant funds.
Posted by pontificus at 10/09/2008 @ 12:22pm
Maskdelta,
You asked the following:
"......would the "conservative movement" have done better (by now)...if Gore had become President, instead of Dubya?...."
Answer:
The "conservative movement" would, in an opposite way, have been "better off" but only because the country would have been worse off. There would have been more grist for the mill.
How so?
1. The economy was going downhill at the end of the Clinton administration. It was hit hard by September 11. The economy has rebounded because of the tax cuts. It, of course, is not the view by many on this website that the economy rebounded, but in truth it did and without the tax cuts the economy would have been worse than even you on the left believe it to be.
2. This recent problem was caused by Democrat actions promoting Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, with pressure to have mortgages to people who it seems could not afford them. Republicans did warn about this. In the last week or so, since this blew out into the open, Democrats have portrayed Republicans to blame, but since Democrats caused it the situation would have been worse with a Democrat in office.
3. There would have been no War on Terror after September 11. God only knows how Algore would have responded. Saddam would by now be causing mayhem in the Middle East and destablizing things there, and developing WMD, as was his intent. We would be way worse off because of this.
I do have to qualify my comment about conservatives having more grist for the mill. Because of item 3, above, by now there may have been another September 11, maybe far worse, under a Gore presidency, so the "conservative movement" would be smaller - reduced by the number of conservatives killed in any additional terror attacks.
Posted by sjchermak at 10/09/2008 @ 12:24pm
Mr. Nichols either doesn't know what he is talking about or is intentionally being misleading.
He talks about the electoral college as though no one was aware of it before the election. Everyone knew the rules going in, including Gore. You know, if Gore had won his home state, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
Nichols' says that a plurality of voters intended to vote for Gore in Florida in 2000. If he means the butterfly ballot in Palm Beach County, I agree. But, unfortunately, there wasn't any way to remedy that error other than to make sure it doesn't happen again. The butterfly ballot was not the fault of Republicans and was not a part of any serious challenge to the election results.
Nichols falsely says that the Supreme Court prevented an "honest count." The Supreme Court found 7-2 (yes, 7-2) that the Florida law providing for the hand recount violated the Equal Protection clause. In other words, the hand recount wasn't "honest."
Nichols also fails to mention that Bush still would have won even if the Supreme Court had allowed the hand recount to continue. An investigation after the election found that Gore only would have won if the hand recount had (1) been done in all counties, and (2) used the most liberal recount method. But Gore only asked for a recount in four counties (which flies in the face of the Democrats' mantra that "All votes should be counted") and the Florida Supreme Court's recount order did not provide for that most liberal counting method.
Using the recount methods that were actually being used and which were ordered by the Florida Supreme Court, Bush would have won, especially if you only consider ballots in the four counties in which Gore asked for a hand recount.
So get over it and stop the lying.
Posted by GBGB at 10/09/2008 @ 1:06pm
twillie-How many people run for congress?How many run for POTUS?You only have to screw with one or two close states to cheat in a POTUS election,but would have to cheat in a multitude of places to affect congressional elections. Posted by i'm nobody at 10/09/2008 @ 11:28am
How do you know which states to screw with, until the votes are counted? By then, it's too late.
"The Right is already trying to build its case that "2008 was STOLEN!!!!!" heheh" Posted by Maskdelta at 10/09/2008 @ 12:13pm
Ahem, did you bother to read Nichols' blog? sounds like the Left is doing the same. heheh
Posted by twillie at 10/09/2008 @ 1:09pm
twillie-The polls tell you where the race is close enough to screw with.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/09/2008 @ 1:21pm
Posted by twillie at 10/09/2008 @ 1:09pm
Yes...exactly my poiont, twill.
And when it was The Left complaining in 2000 and 2004....the Right sloughed it off as "just whining because they lost".
And NOW...your ally Gupdog (and others) are trying to build a PRE-EMPTIVE "They stole it" case with ACORN because McCain's sliding in the polls.
Congrats...YOU are now those you mocked 4-8 years ago!
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/09/2008 @ 2:48pm
Posted by twillie at 10/09/2008 @ 1:09pm
Yes...exactly my poiont, twill.
And when it was The Left complaining in 2000 and 2004....the Right sloughed it off as "just whining because they lost".
And NOW...your ally Gupdog (and others) are trying to build a PRE-EMPTIVE "They stole it" case with ACORN because McCain's sliding in the polls.
Congrats...YOU are now those you mocked 4-8 years ago!
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/09/2008 @ 2:49pm
First, sorry for the double...now...
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 10/09/2008 @ 2:43pm
Uh, Darin....bleeding is a poser...just not a very good one.
He's a Republican like you, he's just ACTING like some "Naderite socialist", but if you look at other posts on other topics...he sounds just like you.
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/09/2008 @ 2:51pm
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 10/09/2008 @ 2:54pm
So there's never any voter suppression or election fraud favorable to the Republicans?
(Here's where you backpedal and say "Sure, it happens on BOTH sides. I'm not saying that it doesn't"...thus completely negating your solely partisan attack on Dems above...out of fear that SEVERAL posts of Repub voter fraud cases will be posted. Just trying to help you out, DTT!...heheh)
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/09/2008 @ 3:09pm
Here ya go, Darin...here's three in the 21st Century-
http://www.klas-tv.com/global/story.asp?s=2421595
http://richmonddemocrat.blogspot.com /2006/10/ republican-voter-fraud-investigation.html
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=4546
BTW, the last is Rep. Patrick McHenry who I believe is just up the road from you in Lincoln County, NC.
(Hint...if you don't want to backpedal yet...want to wait a few more posts and pretend nobody will notice....you might try to attack the sources, not deny the facts! Again, just trying help!)
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/09/2008 @ 4:04pm
3) A man was indicted for voting twice. Big woop. (Can you PROVE he voted for a Republican? Given that he cheated, isn't it more likely that he voted for a Dem?)-----Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 10/09/2008 @ 4:25pm
Okay, this one is most fun, so I'll take it first.
So...a guy who works for a REPUBLICAN Congressman....voted twice for a Democrat?
Ah-ha.
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!! Darin, you are a hoot, I gotta tell ya. Or as Andy would say to Barney..."You beat everything, you know that?"
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/09/2008 @ 4:41pm
The Right is already trying to build its case that "2008 was STOLEN!!!!!"
heheh
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/09/2008 @ 12:13pm | ignore this person | warn this person
gonna be a tough sell considering how big the obama win is looking to be...
Posted by dexter666 at 10/09/2008 @ 7:32pm
Congrats...YOU are now those you mocked 4-8 years ago! Posted by Maskdelta at 10/09/2008 @ 2:48pm
Uh, mask, the election hasn't happened yet. Do you grasp the difference?
Posted by twillie at 10/09/2008 @ 8:02pm
I don't start back-peddling until after I bring up how Dems stole elections in 1960 (Kennedy v. Nixon), the SD Senate race in 2000 (Johnson v. I forget), and the Governor race in OR or WA in 2004.
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 10/09/2008 @ 3:17pm | ignore this person | warn this person
.
(No, mythical fantasies don't count.)
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 10/09/2008 @ 4:25pm | ignore this person | warn this person
.
Darin, in order to make any sense at all, you'll have to choose between your own fantasies that Dems stole elections, or "fantasies don't count". You can't lower the bar for your own 'examples', then raise it for everyone else's examples.
Really, trying to have it both ways just makes you look disingenuous or dumb...
...like when claimed Republicans have NEVER stolen elections and I had to show SEVERAL, including that 'most infamous in history' one in from 1876!
Posted by Lillian at 10/09/2008 @ 8:07pm
1972
Nixon's "Peace is at hand"
With less than a month remaining until the election between incumbent president Richard Nixon and Democrat George McGovern, Nixon's Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger, announced that "peace [was] at hand" in Vietnam.
Posted by Lillian at 10/09/2008 @ 8:40pm
1980
Reagan's October Surprise
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_cr/h920205-october-clips.htm
http://www.counterpunch.org/floyd0909.html
Posted by Lillian at 10/09/2008 @ 8:40pm
1998
Jeb Bush
http://www.hermes-press.com/criminal_vote.htm
Posted by Lillian at 10/09/2008 @ 8:40pm
2000
Florida vote fraud
http://tinyurl.com/8ztr
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0310/S00211.htm
http://archive.democrats.com/display.cfm?id=248
http://www.votermarch.org/
Posted by Lillian at 10/09/2008 @ 8:41pm
2004
Ohio vote stolen
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/
http://tinyurl.com/ogrhq
http://tinyurl.com/6g2qlq
Posted by Lillian at 10/09/2008 @ 8:43pm
Present
http://tinyurl.com/42s6mr
http://www.alternet.org/democracy/94977/
http://tinyurl.com/6dq3j7
http://tinyurl.com/3vdqjt
Posted by Lillian at 10/09/2008 @ 8:44pm
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 10/09/2008 @ 3:09pm
Now I know you're full-of-it when it comes to any kind of 'Fox Facts'! Since when was JEB ever a Democrat, The "Butterfly" ballot was by his signed order. You can't get anything right can you!!!
Posted by rrtreerat at 10/09/2008 @ 9:38pm
Cindy should know best. Well, this is the dirtiest campaign. The one in 2000 against Dubya was second dirtiest.
-------------
Cindy McCain claims Obama is waging dirty campaign Oct 9 02:36 PM US/Eastern
WASHINGTON (AP) - Cindy McCain has accused Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama of running "the dirtiest campaign in American history." In remarks reported Tuesday by The Tennessean, she said she initially did not want her husband John McCain to seek the Republican presidential nomination after a brutal primary struggle in 2000 against George W. Bush.
"The days of Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill are what we need to look to: a divided government but a government that needs to agree to disagree," Cindy McCain told reporters after visiting children at a Nashville hospital and prior to the presidential debate. "We're now seeing polarizing factions, people politicizing things that should be about what's best for America. Instead, they're doing what's best for themselves."
The Obama campaign declined to comment.
Posted by HelenDAO at 10/09/2008 @ 10:07pm
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 10/09/2008 @ 2:43pm
"You need 38 states and I need 13: TX AK MT ID ND SD WY CO OK KS IA NB and only one of MN WI OH PA NC SC AR MS TN KY MO IN AZ NV NM...
Good luck"
Unfortunately, one does not need 38 states to gut the Constitution. All one needs to do is appoint judges to the Supreme Court that rule "gee, the framers didn't mean to say that in the Second Amendment that individuals have the right to own guns, only that the GOVERNMENT has the right to own guns. You know, the militia! Why it says right here! And we'll gladly affirm the right of the National Guard to own guns. But citizens need to turn all theirs in immediately! See! We BELIEVE IN THE SECOND AMENDMENT!" Obama lying right to peoples' faces already about this on the campaign trail.
The Constitution of the USSR guaranteed all the same rights that we have under the Bill of Rights. So does that of Cuba, if I guess right. And of course these were worthless pieces of paper.
Posted by pontificus at 10/09/2008 @ 10:17pm
Posted by pontificus at 10/09/2008 @ 10:17pm |
PONTI, can you provide ONE quote, where Obama says "People must turn in their guns" or "People have no right to bear arms"?
Or you just "guess you're right"???
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/09/2008 @ 10:26pm
Cindy McCain has accused Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama of running "the dirtiest campaign in American history."
Cindy should know best.
Posted by HelenDAO at 10/09/2008 @ 10:07pm | ignore this person | warn this person
.
wow, you think "Cindy should know best"?
How open minded of you....
How objective and unbiased....
How incredibly stupid.
Posted by Lillian at 10/10/2008 @ 01:21am
RE: No More ...
You get what you sowed? The theory of naive voters is well and alive. You believed Dubya lies and you got crashed. Everywhere. Two yrs from now you will have got far worse.
Posted by HelenDAO at 10/10/2008 @ 03:16am
And when are we going to eliminate the Electoral College? It is the greatest source of polarization, yet no one seems to be in favor of election by popular vote only.
Posted by cnigelross at 10/10/2008 @ 09:01am
Posted by Lillian at 10/10/2008 @ 01:21am
Lillian, HELEN is the last of the "PUMAs"...a die-hard Hillaryite, matched only by FRANKGRITS in cultish, even slavish devotion to HRC.
She just wants McCain to win, so Hillary can run in '12.
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/10/2008 @ 09:03am
after losing all my investment in WM after paulson flipped it over to JP Morgan, and despite "diversifying"...all our investments are underwater within last week...whatever you didn't sell is guaranteed to be a loser, except for shorts which the govt. is trying to stop....if you are smart/lucky enough to have seen this a year ago, you would have taken all your money off the table, so in this economic crisis, which mccain admitted 1) didn't exist and then 2) he didn't know anything about, it is even more disconcerting to read about attempts to illegally restrict and deny voters through erroneous names such as Help America Vote which basically says, when poor and middle class are mostly the ones affected by foreclosure, you must now have five forms of ID, permanent address for over a year etc, KNOWING a lot of people who are UPSET and who would vote DEMOCRATIC now won't be allowed...the time for demonstrations is upon us....
it doesn't matter if you vote if it gets purged or unallowed...this just happened here in NY State in the primaries....for NO REASON...OOPS!!!!!
States have been trying to follow the Help America Vote Act of 2002 by removing the names of voters who should no longer be listed. But for every voter added to the rolls in the past two months in some states, election officials have removed two, the Times' review of the records found.
States appear to have violated federal law in one of two ways, according to the newspaper report. Some are removing voters from the rolls within 90 days of a federal election, which is not allowed except when voters die, notify the authorities that they have moved out of state or have been declared unfit to vote, The Times said.
And some of the states are improperly using Social Security data to verify registration
Posted by jrs112 at 10/10/2008 @ 09:35am
To all the "wingers" out there ... a report from BBC points to the types and amount of deception on both sides. ACORN workers have been a bit too "creative", but the rationale is always the same .. they are paid by the head, so workers are scamming for money. The GOP side on the other hand is hard at work to make sure Democrats don't get to vote.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7658182.stm
(and many thanks to whomever it was on the other thread who originally posted)
Posted by leftofcenter at 10/10/2008 @ 10:51am
IS ACORN THE REPUBLICANS' OCTOBER SURPRISE? GOT YOUR TALKING POINTS?
Understand ACORN, they pay registrars on a piecemeal basis...to students and others who make money by the number of people they register...so some may not be paying much attention to who they are registering, or they may be fudging the registrations to make a buck...tantamount to your mail carrier dumping mail in the trash, but getting paid anyway. However, it is being suggested by ACORN and others that ACORN's representatives were not the ones who dumped many of these massive fraudulent registrations on municipalities' boards. Why would they contain such obvious falsities as the entire roster of the Dallas Cowboys? Why would 5000 be dumped the final day at the final moment of registration...all seemingly filled out and signed in one handwriting style...and of the 5000 the first 2100 were obviously bogus, so the rest are set aside to be looked at later? ACORN said they haven't turned anything in to that office in weeks.
I believe this is an attempt by Republican infiltrators/operatives to cast aspersions on ACORN (much like people who infiltrate and commit violence at peace rallies)...in an attempt to do two things...allow for voter suppression and to taint Obama.
This is not voter fraud...none of these fake people have voted...nor would they/could they...this is registration fraud and should be investigated as such by the FBI.
This stinks to high heaven of Republican tactics. Surrogates are already on the air waves saying, "Forget Ayers...we've got ACORN...go after Obama about ACORN."
Obama has not given ACORN any money during the general election. He certainly didn't say, "go out and fake a bunch of voter registrations with names like the Dallas Cowboys starting lineup"...
Posted by beginswithme at 10/10/2008 @ 11:39am
I haven't felt like George W Bush was my President in 8 years now. If he had won the election fair and square I could accept him. But he didn't win the election in 2000 and it's questionable if he did in 2004. There were fair to many underhanded deals going on in Ohio and Florida both. It needs to be a Federal crime punishable by jail time to tamper with elections. I don't care which party you are from. If we don't have a fair election what in heavens name do we have that resembles a democracy???? As far as I am concerned we haven't had a democracy in 8 years now.
Posted by sierrasnow at 10/10/2008 @ 11:39am
It is interesting that John Nichols is writing this stuff when he spent the 2000 election blasting Gore. I recall him appearing on NPR and any other outlet that would listen, saying that there was little difference between Bush and Gore. I remember especially watching the local Sunday morning pundent show on WISC-TV Channel 3 less than two weeks before the election. Nichols spent more time tearing down Gore, giving Bush a near pass.
Why? Because in 2000, John Nichols was an ardent -- low, fanatical Nader backer.
I hold John Nichols as responsible for the election of George W Bush, as any of those Republican campaign workers from Washington DC who stormed the Broward County Supervisor of Election office.
Posted by nobadpols at 10/10/2008 @ 12:05pm
sierrasnow,
You said above "I haven't felt like George W Bush was my President in 8 years now. If he had won the election fair and square I could accept him. But he didn't win the election in 2000 and it's questionable if he did in 2004. There were fair to many underhanded deals going on in Ohio and Florida both. It needs to be a Federal crime punishable by jail time to tamper with elections. I don't care which party you are from. If we don't have a fair election what in heavens name do we have that resembles a democracy???? As far as I am concerned we haven't had a democracy in 8 years now."
The solution to your quandry is to understand the facts of what happened in the election and learn/understand how the rule of law works in this country.
You would then understand that George W. Bush did win that election fair and square and that we do have a democracy.
This subject has been hashed over so many times since 2000, yet the left still contends the election was stolen, and the left always will.
But it is time to let go of it, sierrasnow, so here is another article to help you through this.
http://www.americanthinker.com/ 2004/01/ the_myth_of_the_stolen_electio.html
Posted by sjchermak at 10/10/2008 @ 1:04pm
Well, it's about time! This problem has been known, researched and understood for years, especially by Greg Palast, and has been covered extensively in the foreign media. The Guardian ran stories about this BEFORE the 2000 results were in but noone picked it up here. Why have we ignored it for so long?
But remember, it's more complicated than Republicans purging voter lists. A few thoughts:
1) Many of the changes made to election methodology over the years have been a reaction to prevent voter fraud by Democrats, certainly in Chicago but more particularly by DixieCrats, both under Jim Crow and since the Civil Rights Act.
2) It's too late to do much about voter caging and purging. Registration has past in most states and those provisional ballots are unlikely to be counted - again.
3) Do you think Democrats are going to fix this? Both parties are too cosy with the corporations and would prefer to keep a certain sector of American society out of politics - namely the poor. Don't expect poor precincts to get shiny new voting machines any time soon.
Posted by dezoars at 10/10/2008 @ 1:26pm
All you Nader haters ... nothing like Democrats who hate the left, hey? You buch of centrist sellouts.
At any rate, as Democracy Now and Greg Palast pointed out last night, the attempt to purge the voter rolls in massive ways is already under way in Colorado. In Philadelphia the Republicans have put out leaflets detering anyone with a misdemeanour from voting. In North Carolina, Republican clerks are telling collges students to vote at home. In Michigan, Republicans are taking foreclosed homeowners off the rolls. In black neighborhoods, they are preparing not to have many machines again. In Arizona, some streets don't exist, and if you live on that street, tough luck. Prior felon purges are probably going on in other states. They have taken to slandering ACORN on a daily basis because ACORN has registred millions of poor and even homeless individuals.
Jim Crow is alive and well, and has been since 2000 on a national basis. Where was Kerry's 'army of lawyers' to protect the vote in 2004? The gutless wonder called them off, and left the Greens to fight in Ohio. Where will Obama's 'army of lawyers' be? Hiding too?
Posted by ElyDog at 10/10/2008 @ 1:54pm
Posted by sjchermak at 10/10/2008 @ 1:04pm
Actually, the question you still haven't answered on 2000 or 2004, SJ is...
do you think it would have been better for the Conservative Movement if Kerry, or even Gore, had won instead of Dubya?
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/10/2008 @ 3:10pm
Maskdelta,
You commented above
====================
"Actually, the question you still haven't answered on 2000 or 2004, SJ is...
do you think it would have been better for the Conservative Movement if Kerry, or even Gore, had won instead of Dubya?"
=======================
I answered your question in this posting, above, yesterday.
Posted by sjchermak at 10/09/2008 @ 12:24pm
Here is the first paragraph:
====================== Answer:
The "conservative movement" would, in an opposite way, have been "better off" but only because the country would have been worse off. There would have been more grist for the mill. .................................(check the referenced post for the entire comment......)
=========================
Posted by sjchermak at 10/10/2008 @ 3:45pm
But it is time to let go of it, sierrasnow,
Posted by sjchermak at 10/10/2008 @ 1:04pm | ignore this person | warn this person
.
Hear that Darin...SJerk says it's "time to let go of it".
I agree, your 'myth of Dems stole elections' is eating into your ability to think rationally.
Posted by Lillian at 10/10/2008 @ 4:50pm
your ability to think rationally...
...what little there was of it.
Posted by Lillian at 10/10/2008 @ 4:50pm
Bleedingheart:
"After 8 years of Bush, he could get some real lefty stuff through the first two years. A repeal of the second amendment and socialized medicine just to name two."
As if these are planned Obama actions. You've been listening to Rush and O'Reilly again. Didn't your mama warn you about snake-oil salesmen? They appeal to your emotions to suspend your judgement.
Obama will be a centrist president with the addition of a few New Deal type ideas like a big national infrastructure program to fix our crumbling bridges and roads. It will put Americans back to work and get some of their money circulating in the US economy that so called free-market theories have destroyed.
All this stuff about Obama being a leftist is BS. Compared to who? Tom Delay? Trent Lott? Grover Norquist? Richard Perle? Erik Prince? Karl Rove? Rick Santorum? Gary Bauer? Extremists like these? Give me a centrist like Obama anytime.
And to the guy who tried to give the chapter and verse of how fair the Supreme Court's decision on the Florida recount was, consider this: the ruling was so logically convoluted that it contained an advice that it should not be considered precedent. Check out Vincent Bugliosi's "The Betrayal of America: How the Supreme Court Undermined the Constitution and Chose Our President" for the details of how poor that decision was from a legal point of view. No matter how much you liked the result; the decision was clearly an argument designed to justify a prejudice. You also failed to note the proven systematic vote suppression of the African American vote which negates any claim that the vote tally was democratic. One person; one vote. That's democracy.
Posted by ohsotired at 10/12/2008 @ 12:22am
JOHN NICHOLS, It must be very frustrating to know that you will probably go to your grave thinking that Al Gore really won the 2000 election, or, more ridiculous still, that Kerry did in 2004.
Give it up old boy, and be thankful our multi-institutional system was competent enough to render a decision in what was essentially an incompetent election from top to bottom without resorting to Old World style violence to affect a solution.
It's done. For Christ Sake get over it.
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 10/13/2008 @ 12:45pm