Buzzflash
del.icio.us
Digg
Facebook
Mixx it!
RedditANCHORAGE – Ed Schultz, the nationally syndicated radio host, came to Alaska looking to find out about Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin.
The North Dakota-based progressive talker got an earful.
What Schultz heard is that, despite all the talk about Palin's 80 percent approval rating, plenty of Alaskans have qualms about putting their state's governor a heartbeat away from the presidency.
"The Republicans have taken this election and turned it into an ‘American Idol' episode," said Terry Hamm, one of more than 500 people from the Anchorage area who showed up for the town hall meeting Schultz hosted Saturday night with the help of radio station KUDO-Alaska's Progressive Voice. "They took the pretty girl and made her the candidate."
"There are a lot of smart, capable women in the Republican party that John McCain could have chosen as his running-mate: (Maine Senator) Olympia Snowe, (Maine Senator) Susan Collins," continued Hamm, as she waited in line to speak at the event on the University of Alaska-Anchorage campus. "But Sarah Palin isn't one of them. She's not ready to be vice president, let alone president."
That was the tenor of the talk Saturday night, at a "Come Talk about Sarah Palin" event where Schultz heard the other side of Alaska's response to the governor's addition to the Republican ticket.
Appearing on a day when a crowd estimated at 1,500 showed up for an "Alaskan Women Reject Palin" rally outside an Anchorage hall where the governor was speaking to her backers, Schultz heard a litany of complaints about the Republican nominee for vice president.
When the discussion turned to the "Troopergate" scandal, which has focused attention on Palin's dismissal of the state's top law enforcement officer after he refused to fire her former brother-in-law, Schultz asked: "If it is proven that the governor abused her position, how does the state respond to that?" asked Schultz.
"Impeachment!" responded members of the crowd.
Of course, that's not the universal sentiment in Alaska.
There's no question that Palin has many fans here -- including otherwise apolitical Alaskans who simply appreciated the $1,200 "energy rebate" deposits that Palin engineered and that began showing up in their bank accounts Friday.
But, while there is definitely a good deal of home-state pride in the nomination of the governor for the vice presidency, there is as well a fair measure of honest trepidation about whether this particular Alaskan is the right person for the job.
When Palin returned to Alaska after accepting the Republican nomination and making a series of high-profile campaign appearances with McCain, most of the attention was focused on the fact that the governor was finally sitting down for an interview with the anchor of a nationally-televised news program – an uninspired session with Charlie Gibson of ABC News – and rallying her supporters.
What was not so well reported was that, outside the controlled events at which Palin appeared, her critics rallied in significant numbers.
Many Palin protesters came to show support of the Democratic ticket of Barack Obama and Joe Biden.
Others showed up to raise concerns about Palin's hard-line conservative stances on social issues and to express their fears about whether she would, as vice president and potentially president, blur the lines of separation between church and state.
Even the state's largest newspaper, the Anchorage Daily News, weighed in on that issue, editorializing that, "While it's exciting to have Alaska's popular governor on the Republican presidential ticket – and a woman to boot – Americans can't ignore how Sarah Palin might steer the country on divisive social issues."
The editorial continued, "Sarah Palin is asking Americans to elect a vice president who is an extreme social conservative. She opposes abortion rights. She favors the teaching of creationism. She preaches abstinence-only sex education. She is open to the possibility of banning books from public libraries. She opposes gay marriage. She personally opposes benefits for gay partners of public employees."
"(If) she becomes president," the newspaper warned, "Palin will have plenty of time and a national platform to promote measures that turn her personal stands on social issues into mandates for all Americans. Religious conservatives may insist that she do so. Will she? Her past statements suggest she would."
Still other critics suggested that Palin, who was elected governor of Alaska less than two years ago, simply is not ready to take the nation's No. 2 job.
"(In) no way does her year-and-a-half as governor of Alaska qualify her to be vice president or president of the United States," wrote veteran Alaskan journalist Dermot Cole in his Fairbanks News-Miner newspaper column after Plain was picked.
"I may be proven wrong, but the decision announced by McCain strikes me as reckless," added Cole. "She is not prepared to be the next president should something happen to McCain."
That was certainly the sentiment of those who showed up for Ed Schultz's Saturday night gathering.
"Sarah Palin would serve with a 72-year-old man. If something were to happen to John McCain, she would be in the Oval Office," said Terry Hamm. "She has no business being there."
Schultz was struck by the intensity of the Alaskan concern about Palin.
"We all know people in Alaska who have good things to say about Sarah Palin. We've heard from them." explained the radio host. "But it turns out that there are a lot of people who are as worried as the rest of us are about Sarah Palin becoming vice president."
The Ed Schultz Show will air the Anchorage town hall meeting Monday on progressive talk-radio stations nationwide. For more information and podcasts, visit www.bigeddieradio.com
Share this article
John Nichols
Breaking news and analysis on political, social, economic and cultural activism that mainstream media commonly ignore.
- Atrios
- Arts and Letters Daily
- The Caucus
- Campus Progress
- Crooks and Liars
- The Daily Gotham
- Daily Kos
- Echidne of the Snakes
- Ezra Klein
- FAIR
- Feministe
- Feministing
- Firedoglake
- Glenn Greenwald
- Gothamist
- In these Times
- Hendrik Hertzberg
- Huffington Post
- Hullabaloo
- Matthew Yglesias
- Media Matters
- Mother Jones
- My DD
- New York Review of Books
- Openleft
- Pam's House Blend
- Pandagon
- Political Wire
- The Progressive
- RaceWire
- Real Clear Politics
- Roberto Lovato
- Romenesko
- Swing State Project
- Talking Points Memo
- Ta-Nehisi Coates
- Tapped
- Tech President
- Tompaine
- The Washington Note
- Utne Reader
- Wonkette
- ZNet
RSS
Sarah Palin is at least as qualified to be President as Obama. And she's not on the top of the ticket, he is. We cannot afford to have someone with the naivete of Obama as President. If the Europeans like him so much, they can have him...we can slap a label on him and send him to Brussels or Geneva as soon as we're done with him in November.
Posted by pontificus at 09/14/2008 @ 09:36am
Posted by pontificus at 09/14/2008 @ 09:36am
pontificus, your rant is becoming quite old and your IQ is beginning to surface.
Given Obama's extensive resume, the only thing you leave us thinking is that you would vote for anyone rather than a black man.
You've got to be a racist, why else would you not see the huge experience gap that Obama has over palin.
palin is as weaknesses are only over shawdowed by her running mate's poor judgment.
Posted by Hoot at 09/14/2008 @ 10:34am
Obama is more experienced and qualified than the man who was the first republican POTUS,Lincoln, and he is,obviously,more qualified than Palin who has admitted the she knows little about anything going outside of Alaska,something you would know if you an informed voter..I realize that your id says that you are supposed to spew mindless dogma,but that gets quite boring.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/14/2008 @ 10:54am
People may argue that Palin is as qualified as Obama (which I do not believe is true) but millions of Americans have had months to look at him and they decided that he's experienced enough to be their president. On the other hand, how far do you suppose Palin would have gotten if she had gone thru the Primary process? The only people who chose her were McCain and his cronies.
Posted by JustCherie at 09/14/2008 @ 11:17am
Of course she is popular in Alaska. She has managed to get more per ca pita pork for Alaska than any state in the continental United States. Including oil royalties while we ship Alaskan oil to China, or was it Japan?
Posted by lachatte at 09/14/2008 @ 11:42am
I work all day for Obama and pray all night for the continued health, safety and well-being McCain
Posted by LRPPA at 09/14/2008 @ 11:49am
Eh, by the way she will be sharing the nuclear "nucelar" trigger with Lieberman and McCain! Like Olbermann says"Is it to much to ask that our most powerful elected officials learn how to pronounce nuclear?
I know, she is one o us, but we have already had one of those that we would have liked to slosh bear with. I have had enough of dynasties. They literally scare me to death.
Can we try intelligent this time please? I have two grown kids with careers that I would like to protect.
Posted by lachatte at 09/14/2008 @ 11:52am
Posted by Hoot at 09/14/2008 @ 10:34am
"Given Obama's extensive resume, the only thing you leave us thinking is that you would vote for anyone rather than a black man."
First, Obama does not have an extensive resume. With only two years of Senatorial experience under his belt, most of which was spent voting 'present', and with not a single legislative accomplishment to his name, he is probably the least qualified Presidential nominee in living memory.
"You've got to be a racist, why else would you not see the huge experience gap that Obama has over palin."
Because there is no gap at all.
Posted by pontificus at 09/14/2008 @ 11:56am
Sounds as if it was a stacked audience at that town gall mtg.
Enough Palin already. Focusing on her plays into the GOP's game.
Get hard on the disastrous economy, catastrophic unnecessary war, GOP corruption & incompetence, universal health care insurance.
Ignore Palin.
Make it clear: McCain = W.
Posted by sloper at 09/14/2008 @ 12:00pm
jomamma-Lincoln and Obama are about the same when it comes to this subject and you were unable to show that they aren't.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/14/2008 @ 12:02pm
Ponti-I just gave you an example of the gap,but,as always,you ignore facts in order to spew dogma,like your id says you are to do.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/14/2008 @ 12:04pm
jomamma-I see that you are,still,unable to post facts about Lincoln and Obama's qualifications and experience and decided that a meaningless rant filled with nonsensical sarcasm was best.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/14/2008 @ 12:18pm
jomamma-In other words,you know nothing about Lincoln and can't back up your response.The Left of center id wrote out part of it on the Palin didn't blink board so read that so I don't have to repeat it and then we can go from there.And,find out what a community organizer is.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/14/2008 @ 12:27pm
Questions really need to be answered about a U. S. administration in which the president is from Sedona, Arizona and the vice president is from Wasilla, Alaska, who eventually got her bachelor's degree from Idaho. Talk about Palin being an extreme conservative probably does not merely mean mooseburgers,extreme anti-abortion, and low taxes. There is ample reason to believe that it also means anti-intellectualism, God's wars, fear of the unfamiliar, and a world view that poorly prepares them for a nation, or a world of peoples of as many races and creeds as we are today. This raging pair of dullards may potentially make us long for the "good ole days of GWB". I too find it difficult to trust Ed Schultz. He's one of the phonies I avoid.
Posted by WeldonRobeson at 09/14/2008 @ 12:47pm
Jomamma-Don't forget that Lincoln had to keep firing generals because he knew little about the military and was not very good at picking the right people because he had little experience with many different types of people.Of course,a community organizer comes into contact with all types pf people and has to be a good judge of character in order to be successful.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/14/2008 @ 12:48pm
jomamma-All that left of center posted was facts about the two and you come back on here saying that you guffawed.Why do you guffaw when no opinion was stated,but when only facts were stated?
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/14/2008 @ 12:51pm
jomamma-I noticed that you have,yet,to post facts about either Lincoln or Obama in favor of guffawing when facts were presented to you.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/14/2008 @ 12:55pm
Mr Nichols, first...
"Impeachment!" responded members of the crowd."
Didn't you learn your lesson on THAT topic months, if not weeks ago????
Second, who cares how many Alaskans will show up at a town hall meeting to oppose Palin....the KEY is..
how many can you get to show up for s deposition at a grand jury?
If more than one or two...THEN you're talking something that could undermine "St. Sarah", the "Repub Messiah"!
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/14/2008 @ 1:18pm
jomamma-Living in Lincoln,Nebraska does not give one any knowledge of Lincoln other than to know how to spell Lincoln.You have spent the morning avoiding facts and posting no facts in favor of claiming that living in a place named Lincoln makes one an expert on a person named Lincoln.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/14/2008 @ 1:20pm
I say, remove all the airconditioning in dC and let the swamp return.. Call it a wetlands... That will drive all but the serious people out forever and the nation will be a better place to live.Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/14/2008 @ 12:58pm
Great opportunity for some dual purpose PR. Create a wetlands & then drain it again & build a huge plantation. Not a very good market for trinkets though. You missed out. Peter Minuit stole your thunder a few hundred years ago. Look for a new angle, bubblehead.
Posted by Sorelish at 09/14/2008 @ 1:26pm
It is so great to see Alaskan's becoming vocal about the state they love. I love it and have only visited there. Alaskan people have an amazing culture of Natives and immigrant whites. The current governor is a child of immigrants, hailing from Idaho. She is an Alaskan but she is a child and not even close to being able to cope with a vice presidential position. She is a clever user of the shock of seeing a beauty queen in a position of power, i.e., governor of Alaska. She is more than aware of the disirability of all the natural resources still intact in Alaska. I would be very surprised if she protects Alaska's legacy of individualism, rich cultural values and acceptance. She might be a kid in the Chocolate Factory with a free ticket.
Posted by treeworld at 09/14/2008 @ 1:39pm
I'm tired of dumb people who are proud of their lack of experience and education running the country or, as Bush has and Palin undoubtably would, allowing greedy people with plenty of experience screwing the middle class to do the job for them.
Palin is smarter than Bush though and much more articulate. She is very good at dodging yes and no answers and parrots the party line like Polly on meth.
At least Charles Gibson tried to get a straight answer and looked thoroughly disgusted when he didn't. Hope the rest of the media follow suit. The media should just tear into her and if Palin whines play that clip where she critisizes Hillary for(supposedly) whining about being mistreated.
In the meantime back to John and Scarlet McCain. Palin can't ascend to the throne if McCain loses.
Posted by Pogge at 09/14/2008 @ 2:07pm
jomamma-Even typing slow you were unable to post any facts so try typing even slower and then,maybe,you can come up with a fact.You resorted to a juvenile put down because you have no facts and know that you have no facts.Living in a particular place does not give one any knowledge about people who used to live there many years ago.You,also,one again have shown your ignorance as to what a community organizer is and,please,get back to me when you can type slow enough to be able to, actually, post a fact.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/14/2008 @ 2:19pm
What concerns me is the war mongering of McCain. His Foreign Affairs article was chilling - pretty much a prescription for more and more war. Dismantling the UN may make folks like Sarah Palin swoon, but it would be disasterous for the rest of us. Who, exactly, is going to fight these wars McCain/Palin seem so intent on fighting - God's soldiers? Who's going to pay for them?
Barack Obama's article, in contrast, was well thought out and thorough - showing an excellent balance between diplomacy and national security needs. It was one of the reasons I switched from supporting Edwards and Hillary to Obama, who I initially had considerable reservations about. Since then I have seen similar thoughtfulness in any number of his proposals. The guy is very very smart. I could care less how many densizens of the wild he has slaughtered, or how prepared he is in relation to Lincoln, etc... etc...
Personally, I agree with Bill Clinton. I think Obama's going to pound the opposition.
Posted by Dwight Wall at 09/14/2008 @ 2:22pm
jomamma-You guffawed at the facts that left of center posted.please,post facts to show that what that person posted was wrong.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/14/2008 @ 2:23pm
Regarding Ed Shultz - the guy is a pro. Which means he's putting on an act - an act he does very well. The same could be said for any number of right wing ranters.
I'm a professional musician. If the crowd wants a half hour of "Louie Louie", I'll give it to them with energy and style. I'll hate every minute of it, but they will never know.
Live with it.
Posted by Dwight Wall at 09/14/2008 @ 2:29pm
jomamma-Lincoln's actions with his generals proves that he had little military knowledge.History books that are aimed at kids are aimed at kids and not adults and one has to get beyond the childrens stories, that are filled with hype and PR, to get at the truth.All you have made are general statements whereas left of center and myself have posted specific facts about time in office and Lincoln's lack of ability to judge his generals until they fail horribly,etc. to which you have responded that we are to take your word for things about Abe Lincoln because you live in Lincoln,Nebraska.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/14/2008 @ 2:39pm
I don't know who Ed Schultz is-we don't get Air America here-but we sure get enough Limbaugh to, as my Gram used to put it when she was beyond disgusted, gag a maggot in a gut wagon. Ewww.
Limbaugh has an audience because he tells his ditto heads exactly what they want to hear and good luck getting them to believe otherwise.
It the same with the Bill O'Reilly fans I know. You can show them the book, show them the film, show them a tape of the interview, the ditto heads and All'Reilled-Ups would take the word of their radio gods even if Jesus himself said said otherwise.
Posted by Pogge at 09/14/2008 @ 2:42pm
Posted by JOMAMMA
Read "Lies My Teacher Told Me" and then try to refute that authors footnotes.
I know checking the facts is too tedious for most Ditto-Head types, but it really helps if you want to get anywhere near the truth.
Posted by Pogge at 09/14/2008 @ 2:45pm
On paper, McCain looked more than experienced enough and qualified enough to be given a major command by the military,but they would not give him one because they felt that he was not command material.Sometimes,what looks good on paper does not mean anything when it comes to the real world.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/14/2008 @ 2:51pm
I was in south Utah a while back (can't remember the towns name), and sitting in the car listening to the radio while my wife was in a beading shop. There were 6 stations on the AM dial playing Rush, and one offering an alternative: Sean Hannity!
This was also the whitest town I have ever seen. The only minorities we saw the whole time we were there - the folks from India managing our hotel.
Gave me the creeps!
Posted by Dwight Wall at 09/14/2008 @ 2:52pm
Posted by Dwight Wall at 09/14/2008 @ 2:52pm
Clear Channel engages in a practice whereby they actually put Limbaugh against Limbaugh in the two largest competiting stations in an area (both owned by CC).
Then Righties say "See? Air America and liberal radio can't compete against Limbaugh" when the smaller station runs AAR and gets beat by two stations running Limbaugh in the Arbitrons.
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/14/2008 @ 3:21pm
BTW, check out Amazon blog...and the fun new game "Polar Palin!"
http://www.amazon.com/gp/daily/ref=cm_dly_open
(you'll need to scroll down a bit)
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/14/2008 @ 3:40pm
"I'm nobody" save your keystrokes...the moron you're arguing whose handle begins with the letter 'J' writes things which ably explains why the whole world hates America.
The world thinks the USA is happy to throw anyone overboard who is not willing to accept the Bush-Cheney-McCain pack of lies they use to get what they want--justification for going into Iraq being just one example...to read some of the Bush-Cheney-McCain apologists on this site, you'd think the people of the world should eat every pile of manure which comes out of their spin machine and ask for a second helping!
The guy whose handle begins with the letter J is low class and has no interest in what the world thinks because the only desire he has to travel outside the US is maybe a weekend in Tijuana to consort with a South of the Border 'ho...
To those of us who think America should be respected and admired as the shining beacon of democracy it once was, the attitudes of the guy whose handle begins with the letter J is an embarrassment--especially because there are 50,000,000 just like him in the States who voted in George Bush and may very well do the same for McCain...
And you know what...maybe that's a good thing. American prestige around the world is in the toilet and with McCain/Palin that can only going down...which means the world will deem America irrelevant and will move on...making its deals not with us but with India, China, Brazil--the next generation of superpower...
History marches on...aided and abetted by idiots whose ideology is on display too often in this blog.
Posted by gutcheck at 09/14/2008 @ 4:31pm
Pontificus, Sarah Palin is not qualified to do the job, too young, inexperienced, plus she is a retrograde Woman, gun, drilling (our grandchildren?!), war with Russia, and she declares herself pious! As concern Europeans, - by the way I'm European – we don't appreciate Obama either, the mainstream thought is that in the absence of good choice Obama will certainly be more suited to improve the state of your 50.9 million poor – not included the sum of people without proper health coverage, however if it is the will of your god, then so be it. I'm rue to seen a beacon of prosperity and tolerance, put in tatters by a fringe of refuses. But don't worry I know they are good people in the US who fight hard against them; I hope they will succeed in wiping out this bigotry (that also exists in Europe).
With regards
Rochambeau, Paris.
Posted by yanovsky at 09/14/2008 @ 4:49pm
Obama is just too modest. Since becoming an adult he has impressed just about everyone he has come into contact with, with his swift and engaging intellect and worldly and genteel ways. From Columbia to Harvard to the University of Chicago-- all along the way he has worked and competed with some of the most brilliant scholars around. In fact, throughout the near two years he has been campaigning nary a soul has had one negative thing to say about him or his intellect. On the other hand, since John McCain has become more known his only claim to fame seems to be the fact that he got shot down over Vietnam while spraying agent orange on civilians. As for Sarah Palin, solid journalism is beginning to reveal a woman with many seedy stories to tell. To that end, if she doesn't make it as vice president, the family can start an MTV real world series.
Posted by WeldonRobeson at 09/14/2008 @ 5:10pm
Lincon had experience in the Black Hawk War (think nat guard) he was the leader ... Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/14/2008 @ 11:37am
Lincoln served about 3 months in 1832 as a Private and never saw action, though he was assigned to bury the dead from a fight he missed.
He was a very vocal critic of the war against Mexico in 1846... an earlier war of choice, rationalized with drummed-up pleas of self defense by Texans.
Posted by Radscal at 09/14/2008 @ 7:17pm
Posted by fukUlibruls at 09/14/2008 @ 5:44pm | ignore this person | warn this person
I urgently urge you to seek help. they're doing wonderful things with total frontal lobotomies these days.
Posted by emile duBois at 09/14/2008 @ 7:19pm
Posted by emile duBois at 09/14/2008 @ 7:19pm
He generally sounds more rational than you, my friend.
Posted by pontificus at 09/14/2008 @ 7:34pm
I've had it with the Democratic Party. They are LIARS!!! We can't drill our way out of this problem! Now they're going to vote for offshore drilling! They sold us out to Big Oil! As a lifelong Democrat, I'm so disgusted, I'm going to vote for Ralph Nader this fall.
"Offshore Drilling Is Coming to a Vote Democrats to Offer a Mix of Proposals
By Paul Kane Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, September 14, 2008; Page A04
Congressional Democrats, balancing political reality against a policy they have long opposed, are on the cusp of approving legislation that would open the Atlantic "
Posted by pontificus at 09/14/2008 @ 7:40pm
Yo hater, this is easy:
"I'm a conservative Republican. I voted for George W. Bush. I'm a born-again Christian. I believe in creationism, oppose gay marriage, and think abortion is the killing of a life ready to change the world. Advertisement
However, I'm disillusioned with the state of the Republican Party and its failed programs. I am disgusted with the politics that the so-called Christian right uses to force their will on the nation. Every time you turn on the TV you see the negative campaign ads of McCain-Palin, as well as the (again, so-called Christian) right-wing media powers wielding fury full-force on those who disagree with them. How can we, as Christians, or better yet, as Americans, condone this?"
Posted by winyahn at 09/14/2008 @ 7:51pm
She only helps when cornered, but the throngs don't seem to notice.
Finally, her heinous coughed up:
"No way, no how, no McCain and no Palin,"
She needs to at least give forth 1/100th the hate she had for Obama a short time ago...
Posted by winyahn at 09/14/2008 @ 7:55pm
jomamma-I did not say that Obama equaled Lincoln.Obama,unlike Lincoln, has not been POTUS so no such comparison could be made.The subject was experience prior to becoming POTUS, a subject that you,once again,avoided by responding with something juvenile,untrue,and sarcastic.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/14/2008 @ 8:07pm
" The only people who chose her were McCain and his cronies..."
Posted by JustCherie at 09/14/2008 @ 11:17am
....and the many millions of Americans who by responding to her have, according to the polls, turned around not only the presidential race but possibly created Congress outcomes more favourable to the GOP than before she appeared on the scene.
I'm not for messianic leaders but you Americans seem to love them so if its move over boring x-messiah Obama for a sexy one, "them's the breaks".
Posted by lrjones4 at 09/14/2008 @ 8:14pm
Obama=Lincoln I thank you, and all who needed a good laugh thank you....
Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/14/2008 @ 5:46pm | ignore this person
Yeah, it's about as funny as saying Palin "…is the greatest VP candidate in a 100 years." Except again our side are the only ones telling the truth. Obama and Lincoln have the same experience from the same state prior to their taking office.
This one's freakin' hilarious…
MCCAIN ON CONDOM'S PREVENTING AIDS Q: "What about grants for sex education in the United States? Should they include instructions about using contraceptives? Or should it be Bush's policy, which is just abstinence?" Mr. McCain: (Long pause) "Ahhh. I think I support the president's policy." Q: "So no contraception, no counseling on contraception. Just abstinence. Do you think contraceptives help stop the spread of HIV?" Mr. McCain: (Long pause) "You've stumped me." Q: "I mean, I think you'd probably agree it probably does help stop it?" Mr. McCain: (Laughs) "Are we on the Straight Talk express? I'm not informed enough on it. Let me find out. You know, I'm sure I've taken a position on it on the past. I have to find out what my position was. Brian, would you find out what my position is on contraception – I'm sure I'm opposed to government spending on it, I'm sure I support the president's policies on it." Q: "But you would agree that condoms do stop the spread of sexually transmitted diseases. Would you say: ‘No, we're not going to distribute them,' knowing that?" Mr. McCain: (Twelve-second pause) "Get me Coburn's thing, ask Weaver to get me Coburn's paper that he just gave me in the last couple of days. I've never gotten into these issues before." This went on until Mr. McCain was asked about the weight of a pig that he saw at the Iowa Fair
Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/14/2008 @ 8:23pm
The whole world doesn't hate america.
Liberals like you throughout the world hate america's actions just like liberals here do. Fair enough.
It is a lie, however, that america is hated internationally. to be sure, america has enemies abroad. duh.
Some of you should actually leave the United States to experience the viewpoints foreigners have of our country.
But you won't. And you are comfortable with the lie that we are universally hated abroad. It serves your purpose. But it isn't the truth.
Back on point here, why is John Nichols so freaked out about Sarah Palin? Why can't the Nation just foocus on Obama and his stance on the issues?
Johnny, you are making it all about her. Why? Fear of people who believe in God?
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/14/2008 @ 8:29pm
To rebut concerns about Obama's lack of experience -- which were raised explicitly by Bill Clinton last week -- Burns noted that Lincoln had come into the White House with much less Washington experience than other leading politicians of the 1850s. With the country in such a perilous state at the time, he said, one might have thought it needed an "old pro" like William Seward, when in fact, Burns said, "what the country really needed was a wiry, relatively inexperienced" person, Abe Lincoln. In this regard, he argued, history may be repeating itself.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/12/18
ken_burns_compares_obama_to_linclon
Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/14/2008 @ 8:31pm
Maasch is such a sourpuss because the side, which he so mindlessly cheerleads for, is on a losing streak since 2006. he cannot be taken seriously.
Posted by emile duBois at 09/14/2008 @ 8:41pm
Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/14/2008 @ 8:23pm
Ha Ha CWQP now you're talking my language . I preferred your Romney to grandpa but anyone who can see the funny side in all these inconsequential questions, asked by seriously intense American reporters, who no doubt are Puritans by ethos, would go right to the top of my list for president.
Viva McCain and not forgetting the lovely Sarah.
ps was that pig wearing lipstick?
Posted by lrjones4 at 09/14/2008 @ 8:42pm
I agree it's time to get back to the McCains.
While in Michigan I attended one of those "Woman Things" as my husband cheerfully calls them and apparently dropped a liberal bomb!
I was standing out with the smokers-almost all middle-class GOPPERS-sucking up a little second hand(still sweet even after two decades without a cancer stick)when I casually mentioned how odd it seemed that so many hard righters were willing to vote for a one time adulterer and the woman he cheated with.
Whoa! I was all but accused of lying but I kept me cool, eh, and directed them to places they could get the facts in McCain's own words. One happily married Mrs. did pipe up with "well he must have a good reason" and a chorus of women challenged her to name one.
Having done my bit for the home team I moved on. Ah, the truth, how sweet it is.
Posted by Pogge at 09/14/2008 @ 8:58pm
Johnny, you are making it all about her. Why? Fear of people who believe in God?------Posted by freiheit1 at 09/14/2008 @ 8:29pm
How cheap an attack is that, FREI?
So to oppose Palin is to "fear people who believe in God"?!??!??!
Gee, why don't we just inaugurate her and McCain NOW? After all, wouldn't want to be accused of "hating Christians" by VOTING against them, would we?
BTW, lot of the Right "fear people who believe in God"...when God is called "Allah"!
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/14/2008 @ 9:11pm
Posted by lrjones4 at 09/14/2008 @ 8:42pm
So what did you think was inconsequential, HIV/AIDS or the pigs weight? I think the old guy has some memory problems, seriously. My mom and dad are the same age and they don't need to refer to a report to figure out what their own opinions are on HIV/AIDS policy?
Is it good that McCain is universally ignorant of the stuff most of us average folk know? I mean, "lipstick on a pig" was such an old saying I was more surprised someone as young as Obama knew it than I was that someone as old as McCain didn't.
The first time I heard it was in Louisiana. A good old boy was talking about the expensive flame decal his kid had put on his piece of crap car. That was in 1975. I am happy to say that even though I was a woman AND wearing lipstick at the time I in no way took it personally.
Posted by Pogge at 09/14/2008 @ 9:15pm
Johnny, you are making it all about her. Why? Fear of people who believe in God?------Posted by freiheit1 at 09/14/2008 @ 8:29pm
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. - Anne Lamott
I'm fairly certain MY God doesn't hate anyone God created. That, sadly, seems to be our job.
Posted by Pogge at 09/14/2008 @ 9:23pm
Now that the press and others are beginning to did a bit deeper into palin's past, mccrap's judgment is being confirmed flawed even to many of his supporters.
Instead of selective reading as jomamma and pontificus are inclined to do, those that are open to reading the facts about palin are now as disgusted as the more insightful from the beginning.
But ... I'm certain that when it be proven that palin's husband and aides were indeed applying pressure to remove the "brother-in-law" and that palin's scores of e-mails addressing the same, people like jomamma and pontificus will say that it's the media's fault. ha
I'm beginning to believe in sterotypes, and that all republican's will fabricate in order to spread their virus of hate, deceit and cold heartedness.
In grade school debates, even elementary children are recognizing the lack of experience palin has and the joke notion that she is anything other, but a one time major of a small town with little responsibility and a the gov of the sparcely populatated state for 20 months.
I didn't know Lincoln personally as jomamma seems to have. But I'm certain that Lincoln would draw difference when it related to similarities between he and Obama. But given mccraps "straight talk" and palin's extremist positions, I would venture to guess he wouldn't think twice about voting outside his party line this election.
Posted by Hoot at 09/14/2008 @ 9:57pm
Posted by Pogge at 09/14/2008 @ 9:15pm
I think your experience probably parallels ours in that HIV infections are growing amongst those who have ready access to condoms and know the risks. They only work if you wear them and they don't break at the wrong time.
Maybe McCain is slipping but I think it more likely that he assumed the reporters already knew his position and wasn't going to play their game. Sort of like "that's above my pay grade."
Aussies tend to be anti-authoritarian probably because we started off as a penal colony, and identify with those who take the piss out 0f smart asses so McCain, if I'm reading him right, is my sort of bloke (guy).
Posted by lrjones4 at 09/14/2008 @ 10:03pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/14/2008 @ 9:11pm
Mask, I know it baffles me too. Quote from the article: "(If) she becomes president," the newspaper warned, "Palin will have plenty of time and a national platform to promote measures that turn her personal stands on social issues into mandates for all Americans. Religious conservatives may insist that she do so. Will she? Her past statements suggest she would."
Now, explain to me how this isn't fear? I think it is unjustified. It is as unjustified as some of the silly attacks on Obama beased on the comments of his mentor J Wright.
Isn't the furor over Palin by any chance all about the culture wars and seats on the supreme court?
Yes, I contend it is. And the fear on the left is that Palin will appeal to a broad demographic of people who believe in God. The quote from the article above is similar to the concerns over the catholicism of JFK. As a liberal, were those concerns warranted?
I do see your point Mask, but your contending that I'm saying a vote for Palin is a vote against God is a childish assumption, any more than a vote against Obama is a vote against black people and civil rights.
My point is simply this Mask. I don't believe, based on posts here and the many articles on the Nation that the left has any understanding whatsoever how to relate to people who actually believe in the Bible. That's all. Maybe I'm wrong. But this disconnect is going to screw things up for Obama unless he can deal with it.
You are a polls guy, right? You think Obama's people are happy about the polls today?
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/14/2008 @ 10:03pm
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/14/2008 @ 10:03pm
FREI, maybe I need to actually explain to you, the FALSE assumptions you are making....
Fearing a religious conservative of the EXTREME stripe of Palin...
is not "fearing people who believe in God"...
anymore than fearing Islamist terrorists SHOULD be ..."fearing Muslims".
Although as I said, it seems what your friends on the Right do.
Fearing John Hagee or Pat Robertson or Rick Warren's influence on our government is not being "anti-Christian"...
it's being smart and watchful!
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/14/2008 @ 10:12pm
Mask, again, you are forgetting that MILLIONS of americans are TOTALLY on board with John Hagee or Pat Robertson or Rick Warren and don't consider them extreme at all.
Funny how in this regard you are not your usual moral relativist self. You label Palin as an extremist. Watch all of the people who think she's spot on enough vote for her.
Do you think comparing Christians and Muslims, as you have, is a winning strategy for the hearts and minds of those nutty Christians who aren't happy with the moral compass of our nation?
Mask, please stop trying to attack me. I am not saying this is a good thing. I'm saying it is, in my opinion only, the reality we are all facing. And the greatest danger to an Obama Presidency right now.
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/14/2008 @ 10:21pm
ahhh, finally after 7 years the cons have indigestion from the last picks they made in the polling booth. And here all this time I thought they were defending Bush! 6 years of repub control, and poof, all that hard work goes down in smoke by the work of the spineless dems. How'd you guys let that happen? What happened to the CEO president you voted for? The guy that would fire people till he found the least incompetent?
7 years of Bush and can you hear the chant at the Republican convention...
Change!
Change!
Change!
( we used to want experience, but we like Sarah!)
Change!
Change!
( we used to want Family Values, but we like Sarah)
Change!
Change!
(we used to hate unions, but we like Sarah)
Change!
Change!
(we used to be against earmarks, but we like sarah)
Change!
Change!
(we used to like Bush, but we want Change!!)
-------
Can't you just feel the patriotism rolling off JOMAMA? He got the social conservative he wanted, but he has to vote liberal first to get the guy that hired Phil Gramm as his finance guru !
Hey, John, maybe you need to do some research on Obama. IT happens that the University of Chicago Law School considers him an expert in constitutional law. I think that's pretty good experience for the office of president. I know you have little use for the thing Bush called "just a god damned piece of paper", but many of us think the prez should have at least read it. And as a lowly community organizer Obama created a job training program and a college prep tutoring program. I think you were writing about people being well trained earlier, no? Don't you think a private jobs training program derived from a church based group is worthy of your respect?
BTW, IM cleaned your clock. You brought a crayon to a gun fight.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/14/2008 @ 10:28pm
Frei, what is Palins position of the federal reserve?
Any clue at all?
Posted by crabwalk at 09/14/2008 @ 10:35pm
I don't believe, based on posts here and the many articles on the Nation that the left has any understanding whatsoever how to relate to people who actually believe in the Bible. That's all.
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/14/2008
Prove you know something progressives do not. Lay it out. How exactly should progressives "relate to people who actually believe in the Bible?"
Hebrew Transliterated 23:1 L'a-YB'a PhTShV'y-DKH VKUrVTh ShPhKH BQHL YHVH.
Latin Vulgate 23:1 non intrabit eunuchus adtritis vel amputatis testiculis et absciso veretro ecclesiam Domini
King James Version 23:1 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
Posted by winyahn at 09/14/2008 @ 10:43pm
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/14/2008 @ 10:03pm
I live amongst the religious types most likely to vote for Palin and it isn't pretty. They are VERY anti-intellectual and will ignore any facts, however well researched, if it goes against what they want to believe. It is part of their religious training, trusting authority and fearing retribution if they express too much doubt. They are very black and white thinkers and have little compassion for people who are not like them. They do not-and this goes particularly for the wealthiest among them-believe that poor people or liberal people or disenfranchised people or foreigners feel pain or grief or patriotism in the same deep and profound way that they do.
I don't mean to be mean here, but I have been talking to folks like Sarah Palin for 40 years. They absolutely facsinate me and-on the whole-they are earnest and sincere in their whole hearted wrongheadedness. From the manager I had who was genuinely distressed that all of us he liked so much were going to hell to the kindly old couple printing a borderline pornographic "comic book" depiction of what awaits "abortion lovers" in the afterlife they are just the wierdest sideshow in the circus of life, God love them.
They scare the snot out of me politically because I do relate to them-regularly.
Posted by Pogge at 09/14/2008 @ 10:50pm
Posted by Pogge at 09/14/2008 @ 10:50pm
Thank you Pogge. Although your characterizations are not my experience, you have captured exactly what I'm trying to articulate.
Winyahn, You've proven what progressives don't know by your ridiculous post, in my humblle opinion
Crab, I've wondered the same thing about her opinion of the Fed. I hope she's different from most americans and actually has an idea what it actually is.
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/14/2008 @ 11:27pm
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/14/2008 @ 11:27pm
conveeeeeeenient
now---Prove you know something progressives do not. Lay it out.
How exactly should progressives "relate to people who actually believe in the Bible?" <---your words
Posted by winyahn at 09/14/2008 @ 11:34pm
Posted by Pogge at 09/14/2008 @ 10:50pm
Well said.
John Dean nails them too (goes through the literature on authoritarian followers) in Conservatives Without a Conscience).
Posted by winyahn at 09/14/2008 @ 11:40pm
I don't know winyahn. Where did I give the impression I knew the answer? I apologize if I came across as if I knew the answer.
I don't wish to glib, but maybe the only way for progressives to relate to the base Palin has so energized, is to actually believe in God?
I know that's out of the question.
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/14/2008 @ 11:46pm
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/14/2008 @ 11:46pm
"I don't wish to glib, but maybe the only way for progressives to relate to the base Palin has so energized, is to actually believe in God?"
Ha, I don't think that would be a good example of being "glib" freiheiti.
Believing in God and believing in your and/or palin's God is quite different.
But then God is not in question here, it's the neocon extremists view of having a black man as a leader.
Your fear is as old as slavery itself and as cold hearted and narrow minded and cruel as McCarthy
Posted by Hoot at 09/15/2008 @ 12:16am
freiheit-My progressive wife and most of her progressive friends are,either, Christians or believe in some form of creator and they are not big on far right wing Christians.I,very much believe in God,but am not big on far right wing religious types who need to adhere to strict dogma and who have the more radical views of their religious teachings. Christians tend to pick and choose which parts of the Bible to go by and which to ignore which makes one question if any believe in the Bible.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2008 @ 12:27am
Hoot,
Christians ended slavery on moral grounds, if you'll recall your history. And your reference to McCarthy smells of koolaid.
And your outrageous comment that "the neocon extremists view of having a black man as a leader" is what we're dealing with is a sad dose of what the country will suffer with until Hillary can run again in 4 years.
You want to make is all about something else. Palin appeals to people who are inclined to live life centered in Christianity.
I don't know how Obama gets over that hurdle. Do you?
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/15/2008 @ 12:35am
freiheit-It is,also,quite difficult to relate to people who become instantly energized by someone,Palin, that most never heard of and who,even now,know little about.It took Obama awhile to get people energized because no one knew much about him and they waited until they learned something about him before becoming energized.Some Christians fought to end slavery while others fought to keep it.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2008 @ 12:53am
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2008 @ 12:53am
Hi I'm nobody, Agreed.
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/15/2008 @ 01:01am
Christians ended slavery on moral grounds, if you'll recall your history. And your reference to McCarthy smells of koolaid.
And your outrageous comment that "the neocon extremists view of having a black man as a leader" is what we're dealing with is a sad dose of what the country will suffer with until Hillary can run again in 4 years.
You want to make is all about something else. Palin appeals to people who are inclined to live life centered in Christianity.
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/15/2008 @ 12:35am
Well said Frei.
Some of the inhabitants of this forum live in a fairyland of their own imagination. Probably because they know nothing of American, British or European religious history. Which history was foundational in the formation and ongoing life of your country.
Palin's basic beliefs make her an orthodox Protestant Christian which has a long history that dates back to the reformation. And in fact its core doctrines about the nature of God and Jesus Christ et al, are shared with Roman Catholics as well.
Once those doctrines are known and understood Palin's references to "God's will" fit into the Protestant emphasis on the sovereignty of God and his providential rule. That progressives failed to grasp Palin's real orthodoxy is a commentary on their lack of knowledge and the reason for the intellectual quagmire they end up in.
Posted by lrjones4 at 09/15/2008 @ 01:02am
The ferocious response Sarah Palin's nomination has provoked among the political class is turning this election into one based on a cultural narrative rather than an economic debate. The dripping condescension that some of Palin's critics are demonstrating toward her is boomeranging. She is becoming a heroine to many Republicans, who are as energized as I can remember in defense of Palin. And in attacking Palin, many Democrats and liberal commentators are mocking her faith, worldview, and life experiences. In that sense, a great unmasking is taking place. A wide swath of liberals are revealing their arrogance, their cultural elitism, and even their ugliness. It may be therapeutic. And it may also cost them the election.
Posted by pontificus at 09/15/2008 @ 01:04am
lrjones-You,obviously,know nothing about American evangelicals,like Palin, who are on the more far right and you are regurgitating intellectual sounding nonsense that has no relevance to American far right evangelicals. I find it interesting how you,an Australian, come here to tell us about Americans and do so in such a superior sounding way,but you are always wrong.Concern yourself with your own backyard rather than come on here to tell us about how little you know about America.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2008 @ 01:20am
jomamma-To my knowledge, no one sees Jesus or Lincoln in Obama and to your knowledge, no one sees Jesus or Lincoln in Obama.You made that up just as you made up the stuff that you said about Palin and how she feels about her religious views since you do not know enough about her to make that claim.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2008 @ 02:06am
Poor Democrats. Their goose is cooked, unless they can face the simple fact: Sara Palin IS (median) America: Right-wing, smart, arrogant, militaristic, gun-toting, censorship-prone, fundamentalist, willfully ignorant, nepotistic, secretive, greedy, anti-environment, George-Bush-voting.
These faults are 'virtues' - the voters share them, and find them reassuring in a potential leader. As long as the Dems focus on these, they are advertising the woman - cut off one head, she grows two, like a hydra.
Perhaps a good strategy would be to treat her as the nothing that she really is. It is anyway imperative that HRC roll up her sleeves and meet Palin head-on - soon, loud, and without pulling punches, if for no other reason than to deal with the pseudo-feminism.
And when all the dust has finally settled, some Americans can ask themselves how it is that their country can be represented by this emblematic monster.
Posted by mikecope at 09/15/2008 @ 02:09am
jomamma-You,already,know that you made it up which is why you could not back it up.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2008 @ 02:32am
I wished I had Ed on any radio station near me. 4 stations within 180mi of me broadcast Limpdick Limbaugh. One broadcasts into 35 states. God we need the fairness doctrine.
Posted by insanelayne at 09/15/2008 @ 02:54am
JM
It is really a topic that most, if not all of the progressives, if this forum is any indication are way out of their intellectual depth.
Mask, who is an atheist with his own idiosyncratic ideas on Christianity, at least tries to make sense of something he obviously knows nothing about.
Others engage in naďve, illogical attacks because their knowledge of Christianity and what is conventional and orthodox is abysmal. Sound arguments need valid premises. Their main objective seems to be to show how little they really know. In this they are very successful.
Whilst some of them fondly imagine they are intellectuals, belonging to the party of intellectuals, they in fact show themselves up to be much more bigoted and unthinking ignoramuses than those Palin supporters they mock as such.
Posted by lrjones4 at 09/15/2008 @ 05:08am
Many of the Founding Father Christians justified and rationalized slavery with Biblical passages. Later southern Christians burned crosses and lynched Black people for being too uppity. Actually, Quakers were the true abolitionists. Still are. The scary Christians are the Ten Commandments Christians. The not-so-scary Christians are the Beatitudes Christians. What scares a lot of people is the thought that Miss Congeniality, a wolf in sheep's clothing, is a Ten Commandments Christian. Shame on John McCain for doing this to the nation that he would rather lose an election for than put an incompetent intolerant redneck on his ticket!
Posted by WeldonRobeson at 09/15/2008 @ 06:03am
God
and
Guns
not one of you cons can tell me ANYTHING about her positions on international issues, and the only thing you know about her domestic agenda is it is "faith based". Just like your support for her.
How do you expect anybody to take you seriously when you are having a discussion about her religious beliefs and how that makes her suitable to a minor (but powerful) portion of the electorate, when in the Owners Manual it states explicitly
"....no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public..."
So much for your constitutional beliefs, if you ever had any.
And tell me LR, which Christianity is the "real" one?
Posted by crabwalk at 09/15/2008 @ 07:22am
Look at Freiheit, he has no idea what Palins position is on his topic of most concern, the federal reserve. But, he "hopes" she not in line with "most Americans", those same "most Americans " that read one version of The Bible or another.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/15/2008 @ 07:26am
Posted by WeldonRobeson at 09/15/2008 @ 06:03am
"Many of the Founding Father Christians justified and rationalized slavery with Biblical passages."
That's true. And most of the abolitionists, who brought about the end of slavery were Christians who opposed slavery on religious grounds. And most Christians today oppose abortion on those same religious grounds.
It sucks when life isn't as simple as a movie, with easily identifiable villains and good guys, eh?
Posted by pontificus at 09/15/2008 @ 07:40am
Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/15/2008 @ 08:34am
"No wonder the repubs went all in.."
That's why they picked her. A national discussion on experience and qualifications is exactly the kind of discussion re: Presidential candidates they would like to have. Obama is seriously short on qualifications, the job 'community organizer' is not really a job at all, it has no responsibilities, no supervision, and no salary. It's made-up experience.
Posted by pontificus at 09/15/2008 @ 09:11am
Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/15/2008 @ 08:34am
"No wonder the repubs went all in.."
That's why they picked her."----Posted by pontificus at 09/15/2008 @ 09:11am
Uh....I thought JOHN MCCAIN "picked her"?!???!?
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/15/2008 @ 09:15am
Posted by crabwalk at 09/15/2008 @ 07:26am
Crab, Go back and read what I wrote. I was being critical of most americans because of our ignorance of the mechanisms of the Federal Reserve.
Once again I try to show some empathy to the positions of the left and I get it back twisted and rubbed in my face.
I do know Obama's stance on the Fed though, Crab. He was absolutely for the Fannie/Freddie bailout. He commented it should have been more.
Look at Wall Street today Crab. That is all being driven by the Fed. Privatization of profit. Socialization of loss.
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/15/2008 @ 09:47am
Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/15/2008 @ 09:26am
No, MY point was...that apparenlty poor ol' Maverick is a non-entity these days...
it's just "Sarah!!!!!" and "the Repubs".
LOL
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/15/2008 @ 10:00am
SARAH PALIN: MOVIE OF THE WEEK
A Naturalist once said, "A patriot must always be prepared to defend his country against its government." Everyone knows that what G.W. Bush and his cronies have done to this country is shameful, unjust and perhaps even insane. Mohandas K. Gandhi said, "What you cannot do is accept injustice from anyone. You must make it visible and be prepared to die like a soldier for doing so." As a soldier, I took an oath to defend my country against all enemies foreign and domestic. Today, I am ashamed to be an American. Still, it would be uncivil, unjust and unpatriotic of me not to try to defend my country, once again, against the next group of domestic enemies: John McCain and his movie of the week extremist, Soccer Mom.
Jan Derek
Posted by GSV at 09/15/2008 @ 10:01am
Only Congress can do anything about the Federal Reserve, Crab. So it will be interesting to see her stance, but it's not directly material to abolition of the system.
Back to my point, the Democrats have no idea what to do about the Palin situation and her appeal to Christians, whom you mostly hold in great distain. Normally the Dems religion "platform support" involves a photo op holding a Bible walking out of church, right?
Given Wright, I don't suppose that's a great place for Obama to shine a spotlight.
Crab, no one really understands economics and americans are weary of war. That's why this election is about culture. That's something everyone feels they are an expert on, from Manhattan to Smalltown.
What we are seeing are the cultural chickens of liberalism coming home to roost. And, in the words of Hillary Clinton, you know what I'm talkkin' about!
By the way, I suspect you assume I'm all for this Palin phenom. For a guy who wants less Federal government and an abolition of the Federal Reserve system, a base of voters who think they can use governmant to change the culture is not a welcome situation.
Morality does not need government. It is the other way around. That's the source of Palin's appeal.
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/15/2008 @ 10:03am
I do know Obama's stance on the Fed though, Crab. He was absolutely for the Fannie/Freddie bailout. He commented it should have been more.----Posted by freiheit1 at 09/15/2008 @ 09:47am
Uh, FREI?
latimes.com/blogs
Obama, McCain back Fannie-Freddie bailout; Palin calls them "too big"
Developments today in the government's weekend bailout of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae:
The New York Times reports that "both presidential nominees expressed support for the government's plans to take over the companies." John McCain, the Times reports, "considered it an unfortunate but necessary step," while Barack Obama said "not acting could place the housing market in further distress."
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/15/2008 @ 10:07am
By the way, I suspect you assume I'm all for this Palin phenom. For a guy who wants less Federal government and an abolition of the Federal Reserve system, a base of voters who think they can use governmant to change the culture is not a welcome situation.----Posted by freiheit1 at 09/15/2008 @ 10:03am
FREI, two questions-
1. With a GOP Congress and a VERY conservative President, how much "less Federal government" and "moves to abolish the Federal Reserve" occurred between 2003 and 2006?
2. Who will be the actual PRESIDENT of the United States of America if McCain/Palin win in November? Sarah Palin?
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/15/2008 @ 10:10am
Mask, of course the candidates are going to support the Fed. Have I supported either candidate on the grounds of their policy re: the Federal Reserve? Nope. Sorry, if your point is I should have mentioned McCain too, point taken.
I'll conclude with my assertion that the Democrats have no answer to Palin's popularity because it has to do with a belief in God.
And I contend not a single member of the editorial staff of the Nation Magazine has a relationship with Jesus Christ. So I don't expect them to get it.
Instead they have only anger, contempt and fear.
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/15/2008 @ 10:23am
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/15/2008 @ 10:23am
Okay, so
1. Palin is popular because she's a fundy/evangey Christian?...which is "believing in God" (unlike everybody else who ISN'T a fundy/evangey Christian...or is it that only fundy/evangey Christians TRULY believe in God?)
2. You are capable of knowing the hearts of men (and women) and can assert that because "The Nation" staff don't support right-wing fundy-evangy Christianity...they can't be Christians?
AH....ha. Well, I guess God can take some time off...apparently we can get a "temp" at the Judge of All Men position.
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/15/2008 @ 10:30am
Haha, good one Mask.
1) Palin is popular because she outspokenly believes in God and says she is guided by her faith. All I am saying is that resonates with people who lead a life centered in a belief in God.
2) Simply based on my reading editorials here for over two years, not once have I read anything from any of the editors proclaiming a Christian faith, or really any faith or belief in a greater, spiritual power at all. Have you? I don't pretend to know their hearts and minds at all Mask. I'm just saying there's not a lot of pro-Christianity here, is there?
Once agian you twist my words in attack. Why?
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/15/2008 @ 10:41am
lrjones-All you do is come on here and claim that "progressives" don't know anything,but then post nothing that shows that you know anything.All you do is tell Americans that you,an Australian,know more about Americans than Americans,but all you really know is theory and formal Christian history which has little relevance to practice,but you would not know that since you don't live here.What you need to learn is that there is formal English and then there is the way people actually speak it and their is formal religion and then there is the way people actually practice it.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2008 @ 10:42am
jomamma-I specifically and,quite clearly, stated what you made up.How do you keep a job with your inability to spell,write, or comprehend what you read?
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2008 @ 10:44am
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/15/2008 @ 10:41am
Not twisting...let's quote-
"And I contend not a single member of the editorial staff of the Nation Magazine has a relationship with Jesus Christ. So I don't expect them to get it."
Again, they aren't wearing their religion on their sleeve...as AMBITIOUS Republicans/conservatives like to do....so you can "contend" that none of them are Christians? Or is it simply a matter of the fact they oppose the right-wing, theocratic tendencies of fundamentalist/evangelical conservative Christians that "indicates" they don't "have a relationship with Jesus Christ"?
As for Palin, she's not "popular" due to her declaration of religious faith....she got good "favorables" in her initial polling, with litle mention of her beliefs.
But I hope you're right, in a sense...I hope she DOES make more statements on her religious beliefs....her opposition to abortion rights, even in the case of rape or incest (that scores well in polls, doesn't it?)...her belief that creationism should be given equal footing (and then she can tell us why the T-rexes weren't allowed on Noah's Ark)....and why she thinks God is a neo-con who supports the Bush Doctrine (soon as she figures out what it is).
K.H.T.
Keep Her Talking. We agree on that, don't we?
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/15/2008 @ 10:52am
lrjones-You should,also,remember that you know even less about Palin than the other people on the right do and they,still,know next to nothing about her making your lecture about what her beliefs should be irrelevant because it does not matter what you think her beliefs should be since you do not know what her beliefs are.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2008 @ 11:01am
"her opposition to abortion rights, even in the case of rape or incest (that scores well in polls, doesn't it?)"
I know, why not then make abortion legal only in the case of rape or incest, then everyone is happy, right Mask?
You know Mask, you just don't get it. I can tell by your most recent post. I am simply trying to tell you that there are millions of people out there who don't buy evolution. The believe that the only strength of evolution is it removes God from the equation. there are millions of people who are against abortions of convenience. And she never said God was a neo-con who supports the Bush doctrine.
See, you think people who believe in the Bible and take any kind of literal stance on its teachings is kind of nuts, don't you? That's why I think you and the left are afraid. That's all. I'm not even sure I'm right.
But I do know that Obama hasn't countered Palin's appeal to all those nutty people yet. And so do you. i think.
Posted by freiheit1 at 09/15/2008 @ 12:27pm
Did anyone ever google Jomamma? He's on my ignore list, but judging from comments he hasn't gained any mental cubes. he sounds like a typical eighteen year old, and although it's not nice to speak evil of the brain dead, I'm just sad that he also happens to be Canadian. does he know that Matt Drudge has just the site he wants. He can go sing with that choir. Drudge doesn't require intelligent dialog.
Posted by lachatte at 09/15/2008 @ 12:29pm
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/14/2008 @ 12:51pm |
i'm .. apparently you forget that in GOP-land (which is somewhere between Oz and Santa's house) that facts don't matter while assertion and "guffaw" are powerful mojo.
So to continue the original idea ... yes, Lincoln had some minor military experience before (militia type) and Obama has 12 years of University Professorship .. both experience, but very different. Basically BFD .. and neither Ponti nor JM have offered any rational refutation.
Posted by leftofcenter at 09/15/2008 @ 12:37pm
leftofcenter-They did not want to push Lincoln's militia experience since it appears from his problem with selecting good generals that he did not learn much from that experience.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/15/2008 @ 12:53pm
Crab, no one really understands economics and americans are weary of war. That's why this election is about culture. That's something everyone feels they are an expert on, from Manhattan to Smalltown.---ffreihet
I guess I never knew the president was in charge of culture.
What a crock.
Posted by crabwalk at 09/16/2008 @ 07:32am