The Beat

Cheney on Palin: She's "Superb!"

posted by John Nichols on 09/08/2008 @ 1:07pm

Vice President Dick Cheney is such an appealing and popular figure that Republicans decided to dispatch the "Darth Vader" of American politics on an "urgent" international mission rather than invite him to last week's party convention in St. Paul.

So Cheney, whose personal approval ratings are significantly lower than the bottom-of-the-scale ratings for President Bush, watched from afar. And the vice president who would be king liked what he saw.

No, Cheney, who has never particularly liked Arizona Senator John McCain, was not any more enthused about the party's presidential pick.

But the most authoritarian and abusive vice president in American history had plenty of nice things to say about Alaska Governor Sarah Palin, the party's pick to replace him.

"I thought her appearance at the convention was superb. I watched that with great interest. I loved some of her lines - what was the difference between a hockey mom and a pitbull? It's lipstick," Cheney, who is not known for his light side, told reporters traveling with him on a time-killing trek across Azerbaijan, Georgia, Ukraine and Italy.

Palin's pitbull line has Cheney guffawing out loud.

But for those of us who are students of all things Cheney, his own line on Palin was even more amusing.

"I think (Palin's) a good candidate and I don't see any reason why she can't be an effective vice president," the vice president declared with as straight a face as he can manage.

Cheney, who as the head of George Bush's 2000 vice-presidential vetting team scanned the list of Republican prospects and determined that only he had the qualifications needed in a No. 2 for Bush,came to the vice presidency as a former congressional and Cabinet aide, White House chief of staff, six-term congressman, Secretary of Defense and corporate CEO.

So what does he think about handing the keys to a woman who until recently was primarily responsible for setting hours at the town dump in Wasilla?

"We've had all kinds of vice presidents over the years and everybody brings a different set of experiences to the office and also a different kind of understanding with whoever the president is," Cheney says. "Each administration's different and there's no reason why Sarah Palin can't be a successful vice president in a McCain administration."

Translation: Don't be ridiculous, the woman is unqualified. But I've got too many skeletons locked in the vice presidential closet to hand this office off to a Democrat. So count me in as a Palin backer.

(John Nichols authored a critically-acclaimed biography of Cheney, The Rise and Rise of Richard B. Cheney: Unlocking the Mysteries of the Most Powerful Vice President in American History (The New Press) and is currently writing a history of the vice presidency.)

Comments (182)

  1. That does it, she must be the best qualified from the oil industry's POV.

    A credit to her gender & her race.

    Posted by sloper at 09/08/2008 @ 1:28pm

  2. Like Cheney, Palin invokes EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE as her excuse for not turning over emails that show her pressuring her public safety commissioner to go along with her family feud and fire the ex-husband of her sister.

    Birds of a feather flock together, and Cheney knows he has a fellow ignoramus in Palin who thumbs her nose at the law and the Constitution if they stand in the way of her personal vendettas.

    Posted by Metteyya at 09/08/2008 @ 1:28pm

  3. well, there's an endorsement.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/08/2008 @ 1:33pm

  4. this is just bizarre:

    http://www.ontheissues.org/Dick_Cheney.htm

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/08/2008 @ 1:33pm

  5. Cheney endorses Palin. ...nuff said.

    Posted by SandyFeet at 09/08/2008 @ 1:34pm

  6. "So what does he think about handing the keys to a woman who until recently was primarily responsible for setting hours at the town dump in Wasilla?"

    And what exactly has Obama been responsible for lately...?

    Oh, that's right...abstaining from voting on anything. Way to represent your constituency!

    Posted by jayneslilsis at 09/08/2008 @ 1:46pm

  7. "Translation: Don't be ridiculous, the woman is unqualified. But I've got too many skeletons locked in the vice presidential closet to hand this office off to a Democrat. So count me in as a Palin backer."

    Ha. Ha. This is my favorite part! I love how Nichols can read people's minds. That's an amazing talent. Truly.

    btw, we all know that they hire a team to clean out the closets before they leave office. The Clintons even got their team to remove all the Ws from the keyboards. ;)

    Posted by jayneslilsis at 09/08/2008 @ 1:50pm

  8. Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 1:45pm

    What has she done as Mayor of Wasilla?

    1. She left the town 20 million dollars in debt;

    2. She had her car wash involuntarily shut down for failing to pay her taxes and fees and failing to file required finacial statements.

    3. Had a failed dairy business that she staffed with a bunch of cronies.

    4. And filed for a business license to run a "marketing business" called "Rouge Cou", which is a literal French translation of "red neck."

    GREAT MANAGEMENT SKILLS, wouldn't you say?

    Posted by Metteyya at 09/08/2008 @ 1:51pm

  9. FrankNoGrits-Rasmussen has been shown to be the most accurate when it comes to elections and they have them at a virtual tie nationally,but Obama still wins the electoral college.

    Posted by i'm nobody at 09/08/2008 @ 1:54pm

  10. FrankNoGrits-You have no idea what Jefferson Davis Palin has done as gov which is why you did not mention anything.

    Posted by i'm nobody at 09/08/2008 @ 1:55pm

  11. Posted by lvliberty1 at 09/08/2008 @ 1:21pm

    I've always wondered who the 18% were who actually liked Dick Cheney!

    LOL

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/08/2008 @ 2:05pm

  12. "Bottom line. Dick Cheney's the best vice-presidential nominee since Dan Quayle. His selection is the first flat tire for the Bush campaign. It's not exactly like handing Al Gore the keys to the White House, but it does give Gore an excellent opening to pull ahead.

    We'll know soon if the vice-president takes advantage of it."

    http://transcripts.cn

    n.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/07/27/bill.press/index.html

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/08/2008 @ 2:06pm

  13. BTW, was absolutely certain that FRANK would be all over that USA Today/Gallup today....just as I'm fairly certain sometime in the next 24 hours he mentions Obama's "Muslim faith" gaffe.

    Then when the polls re-stabilize and Real Clear Politics and Polling Report show it back to MoE...or even Obama/Biden ahead for a while...

    FRANK will say "Polls are unimportant!!!!"

    LOL

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/08/2008 @ 2:07pm

  14. "The wisdom of not opting for McCain was evident several days later when the senator attempted to defend Cheney in the wake of Democratic attacks on his voting record. "Any voting record can be selectively described.... That happened to me in the primary campaign," declared McCain, who apparently has forgotten who sits atop the GOP ticket."

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_31_16/ai_64566661

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/08/2008 @ 2:10pm

  15. "If the Bushies figured it wouldn't matter, maybe they were right. Bush's veep choice gave him a double-digit bounce, according to a CNN/USA Today poll. Less volatile than national pre-convention polls and equally encouraging were two other polls."

    ibid.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/08/2008 @ 2:11pm

  16. Posted by frosty zoom at 09/08/2008 @ 2:06pm

    The key thing to remember back then was...McCain was supposed to get the Veep slot so that Dubya could "make up" for the way he treated Maverick in South Carolina and give him foreign policy "gravitas" (which Dubya was sorely lacking) as well as latch onto Maverick John's (who is now deceased) appeal to independents and even some Democrats.

    Instead he went with a "friend of Dad's" and the guy who was SUPPOSED to pick the Veep FOR Dubya...not be it.

    Cheney was a null for electoral politics as all he could guarentee was Solid Red Wyoming and he wasn't a household name. Plus, back then, even after Gore, the thinking was that a Republican Vice-President would be like "old Veeps"...i.e. a meaningless seat holder....not the man who virtually directed both foreign policy and energy policy.

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/08/2008 @ 2:11pm

  17. Examples of questions posed to Dick Cheney by former Bush administration speechwriter Tony Snow (FNS):

    Are there any skeletons in your closet?

    Is Al Gore a nice guy?

    Do you think the Clinton administration is ethical?

    Are you going to take a swing at the opposition?

    What do you think Dubya has learned from his father?

    What has happened with the military since you presided over it?

    http://www.slate.com/id/1005773/

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/08/2008 @ 2:14pm

  18. can't wait for the charlie gibson confirmation, er, interview.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/08/2008 @ 2:15pm

  19. FrankNoGrits-Rasmussen has been shown to be the most accurate when it comes to elections and they have them at a virtual tie nationally,but Obama still wins the electoral college. Posted by i'm nobody at 09/08/2008 @ 1:54pm

    Don't tell Frank that. The Repubs don't like to hear that Obama is still up by 70 in the electoral college. Let him cling to his wildly inaccurate national polls.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/08/2008 @ 2:22pm

  20. Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 2:11pm

    FRANKGRITS,

    You know Palin is NOT a reformer, and trying to fool Americans by hiding from the press.

    She supported the "bridge-to-nowhere" and then was against it when it became unpopular, she pushed for earmarks that even McCain objected to, and she ran indicted Ted Stevens 527.

    Like McCain, she is MORE OF THE SAME George Bush incompetence, cronyism, and lawlessness, in which the "pay-to-play" culture she has mastered would be maintained, not changed!

    Posted by Metteyya at 09/08/2008 @ 2:23pm

  21. Lie Lie Miss American Pie.

    If McCain gets elected then America cries…

    "You good ole boys pulled the wool on our eyes…"

    Singing "this will be the day that we died."

    "This will be the day that we died."

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 2:23pm

  22. FrankNoGrits-Would that be the Limbaugh who,like you, was putting down McCain not too long ago?Would that be the Limbaugh that you say is a pathological liar?

    Posted by i'm nobody at 09/08/2008 @ 2:23pm

  23. I know this may be hard to follow, but the context of what Obama meant by "clinging to guns and religion" is really simple, and it's actually a slight against the Republicans. See Republicans use fear to manipulate people into voting for things. Never-mind that whole…"Nothing to fear but …." Yadda Yadda Yadda. Ya' know, Republicans hate it when you quote people. But the fear that Republicans put into people who value freedom of religion, and the right to bare arms. That somehow if you elect a Democrat they will be taken away. The only people trashing the Constitution are actually Republicans. Bush actually COMMITTED TREASON to force the war in Iraq, and he and Cheney should be in jail!! PERIOD!! They "Put America First" by scaring everyone into voting against their own best interest, then use that to put forth agendas that hurt all but the richest 2%. WAKE UP AMERICA!!! It's time to see the world for what it's been under Republican only rule. Stop being afraid of the imaginary one the Republicans want you to think will be under a Democratic one. Compare the economy under the 8 Democratic years to the 6.1 un-employment rate, and the Government takeovers of the failing Freddie Mac, and Fannie Mae. They scare you because they are trying to keep power…don't let them.

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 2:24pm

  24. Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 2:14pm "This tells me that independents are willing to accept a female as Vice President but they do not want a black as President."

    Not necessarily. My dislike of Obama has nothing to do with his skin color or his gender, just his ideas of "change". And also his lack of experience to judge how he's going to lead the country in the future, if he does win. In all honesty, the idea of him as president just scares me a bit.

    I consider myself a conservative, but I have voted for Democrats before, so I guess you could call me an independent.

    Posted by jayneslilsis at 09/08/2008 @ 2:25pm

  25. A BLOG FROM POLITICO...WHICH I THINK I'VE BEEN BANNED FROM...

    "I posted that yesterday on a different thread jackass, why don't you try staying on topic? Whats a matter, reality got you down? Get a job, loser!"

    Posted By: your herO is zerO | September 08, 2008 at 12:17 PM

    Yeah I know, Republicans like to pretend the truth is relative and try to forget it as soon as possible. My job is to annoy idiots like you. You really shouldn't blog from work...you might be joining the 6.1%unemployed.

    Everyone told you to keep your hand out of the fire. Now you're set ablaze running around in circles like a chicken with it's head cut off, and no one will piss on you.

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 2:26pm

  26. FrankNoGrits-I see that you read my post about Hillary that I addressed to jomamma and are busy making things up about Hillary in order to counter it.

    Posted by i'm nobody at 09/08/2008 @ 2:27pm

  27. ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. - Barack Obama isn't John McCain's only opponent. Sometimes McCain sounds like he's running almost as hard against President Bush and the Republican Party as he is against Obama, his Democratic rival for the White House. The GOP is guilty of indulging in a spending spree of taxpayers' money, McCain laments. They haven't solved huge problems such as the looming insolvency of Social Security and Medicare, passing on huge IOUs and perplexing issues to future generations instead of fixing them as they had promised. He doesn't name Bush but the implication is clear: It happened on his watch and he signed bills that made the deficit soar. "We began to value power over principle," McCain said in Colorado Springs, Colo. Some lawmakers turned corrupt and wound up in jail, he told a rally in Albuquerque, N.M. "Change is coming, change is coming," McCain promised, projecting an image of independence and political populism.

    Palin, a conservative with a strong anti-abortion and pro-gun record, has not been questioned by the media since McCain made her his surprise pick for No. 2 on August 29. McCain said she would start giving interviews "within the next few days" but did not elaborate. McCain adviser Mark Salter said later on Sunday that Palin had agreed to a series of interviews with national media, likely starting on Thursday or Friday, and beginning with Charlie Gibson of ABC.

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 2:27pm

  28. "MIRANSHAH, Pakistan (Reuters) - Missiles fired by U.S. drones killed at least six people on Monday in a Pakistani village near the Afghan border where a religious school founded by an old friend of Osama bin Laden is located, witnesses said." Another example of following Obama's ideas. Look up the people that attacked Obaam for wanting to do what they've done twice in the last week. McCain?

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 2:28pm

  29. Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 2:23pm

    Want to put a skeer into FRANK...say this in concordance with the above post...

    "So FRANK, are you saying Hillary isn't ENTHUSIASTICALLY supporting Obama/Biden? If not, I guess if they lose, we can BLAME HER (if partially) for their loss, can't we?"

    (It's all about HRC and 2012 folks...keep that in mind!)

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/08/2008 @ 2:29pm

  30. SORRY ANOTHER POST FROM POLITICO.

    "Have any of you left wing POS complaining that Sarah won't sit down with the media ever take a moment to realize that her oldest son is departing for a tour in Iraq this week and that she may otherwise be occupied this week?"

    Posted By: I thought not! | September 07, 2008 at 09:06 PM

    You are pathetic...

    "Biden is a member of the Delaware Army National Guard, and serves as a Captain in the Judge Advocate General's office. In August 2007, he received notice that his unit would be deployed to Iraq some time in 2008. He is officially scheduled to deploy on October 3, 2008, the day after his father participates in the campaign's only vice presidential debate. His father is on the record as saying, "I don't want him going. But I tell you what, I don't want my grandson or my granddaughters going back in 15 years, and so how we leave makes a big difference."

    Joe Biden didn't use it like the Republican side does to exploit the troops. "Putting Country First" by sending them into battle without everything they needed, like say...a plan...oh and Body-Armor might be good. McCain is then "Putting Country First" by voting against the troops every chance he gets.

    REPUBLICANS WILL NEVER MONOPOLIZE WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AMERICAN NO MATTER HOW LOUD THEY SCREAM!!!!

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 2:29pm

  31. Later this week Bill Clinton and Barack Obama will sit down and talk. Bill will be suggesting that Biden backs out of the race for personal reasons and Hillary is inserted in her place. Funny, isn't it, that dems, blacks in particular turned their backs on Hillary and Bill and now they're kissing their asses. Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 2:23pm

    Frank is like an incessant child. He cries and cries and cries and people only listen to him enough to tell him to shut up but he never quite gets the message. He thinks he knows everything but is consistently proven wrong but that doesn't deter him.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/08/2008 @ 2:30pm

  32. Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 2:23pm

    I would rather see them exit the stage if they are not going to be helpful.

    If I were Barack, I would put it to Hillary rather bluntly:

    EITHER YOU COME OUT FORCEFULLY AND EXPLAIN TO YOUR SUPPORTERS WHY PALIN DOESN'T REPRESENT WHAT YOU STAND FOR, OR STAY OFF THE STAGE!!!

    THIS PLAYING IT COY FOR 2012 WON'T DO - TELL AMERICANS WHY PALIN IS ANTI-WOMAN OR GET LOST!!!

    Posted by Metteyya at 09/08/2008 @ 2:31pm

  33. BTW....

    saving this for 2012

    "Now she's taking the air out of the Obama balloon with some pretty drab campaigning."-----Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 2:23pm

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/08/2008 @ 2:32pm

  34. FrankNoGrits-We are aware that you are angry with us for not supporting Hillary and want to whine at us everyday in order to keep reminding us that you are still angry and still having your tantrum and are going to vote McCain in order to get your revenge on us.But you are a Yankees fan who lives in New England which means that you,probably,live in a very blue state making your one vote for McCain rather irrelevant except that it,might,make you feel better.

    Posted by i'm nobody at 09/08/2008 @ 2:33pm

  35. FrankNoGrits-Do you have anything that shows that people are flocking to McCain?

    Posted by i'm nobody at 09/08/2008 @ 2:35pm

  36. "Later this week Bill Clinton and Barack Obama will sit down and talk. Bill will be suggesting that Biden backs out of the race for personal reasons and Hillary is inserted in her place."-----Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 2:23pm

    BTW, another FRANK prediction....the more he makes, the more optimistic I get!

    (When Clinton and Obama DO meet, FG will claim the discussion of "inserting Hillary"....ughh...anyway...was "secret" and will "come later after Biden loses the debate to Palin!")

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/08/2008 @ 2:36pm

  37. Posted by i'm nobody at 09/08/2008 @ 2:33pm

    Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....I'M, you KNOW how crazy FRANK is...

    he might MOVE to Ohio or Florida or Pennsylvania!!!!!

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/08/2008 @ 2:37pm

  38. FrankNoGrits-I see that you are disrespecting someone who is in the military.

    Posted by i'm nobody at 09/08/2008 @ 2:38pm

  39. Mask-LOL

    Posted by i'm nobody at 09/08/2008 @ 2:39pm

  40. REPUBLICANS ATTACK SARAH PALIN'S FAMILY AND QUALIFICATIONS!!!

    http://www.thedailyshow.com

    SARAH PALIN GENDER CARD

    MCCAIN ATTACKS…HIMSELF!!!

    http://www.thedailyshow.com

    REFORMED MAVERICK

    I'm probably preachin' to the choir here...but at least I can still post something. Can your privileges be revoked at POLITICO.com for being as vitriolic as the Republicans are allowed to be? I've been posting under the same tag for days...and really annoying them I might add. Now poof...I can't. I'm new to bloggin'. 2004 I voted for Kerry and watched the Daily Show...and prayed. This years I wanted to do a little more. So for the first time in my life I gave to a candidate. I'm still trying to pay off my $80,000 college debt, but I have never been witness to the leader I believe Barack Obama to be.

    Speeches...just speeches. That he writes himself Mrs. Palin. I hope Joe Lieberman can catch you up on the world, he can't seem to drill this stuff into McCain's head though. You've always got to consider the source. How can you teach something to someone you don't understand yourself? I pray the American people see through this. And yes Democrats pray too. They also PUT THEIR COUNTRY FIRST!

    MCPAIN DOESN'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE WALTER REED HOSPITAL LOOKS LIKE!!!

    Sorry for ranting, but I'm just so exhausted from all of this. Please God don't let it work anymore! ENOUGH!!!

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 2:42pm

  41. To-- Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 2:36pm

    Ya' know Palin using his status and announcing it the way Biden didn't might actually be putting her son's whole unit in danger.

    Kerry was against a war he fought in while saving the lives of his men. Bush was a cheerleader who then dodged his service to the then cushy National Guard duty his dad got him out of. McCain's service in Viet-Nam didn't teach him that some wars are wrong and miss-guided. He of all people should have seen the parallels to Iraq, yet he was the first to want to attack the wrong country weeks after 9-11. Before anyone knew for sure who had even hit us.

    There are a lot of Democratic war heroes coming out of Iraq...how will you denigrate their service when they start running for office. I'd say a triple amputee has the right to make the same claim on leadership experience as a P.O.W.

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 2:46pm

  42. FrankNoGrits-Let's talk about you and the fact that you just disrespected someone who is in the military rather than read your usual whine.

    Posted by i'm nobody at 09/08/2008 @ 2:49pm

  43. People for McCain/Palin simply cannot be in their hearts be "Putting Country First". There has to be a blinding underlying hatred of the Left to see reason, or reality.

    I tell you what...if you really want to "Put Your Country First" first read a little document called THE CONSTITUTION. Better hurry before it's gone. I say "little" because to Republicans lately, it must be hard to see. Second, take this "Put Your Country First" slogan and shove it up your ignorant asses. WE ALL PUT OUR COUNTRY FIRST REGARDLESS OF WHICH DIRECTION WE WANT TO TAKE IT. IT IS ACTUALLY UN-AMERICAN TO RUN THE CAMPAIGN YOU ARE SUPPORTING IN MCCAIN/PALIN!!!!!!!

    I know screaming in text is as pointless as trying to use the facts. What would happen if the (D) for Obama and the (R) for McCain were reversed? Republicans would all be singing a different tune for Republican Obama, even if he carried the same exact views. Democrats would still elect him. Because the evidence has shown lately that no matter what people say and stand for it's the (R) that matters most to Republicans...no matter what they say about values.

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 2:49pm

  44. Kerry was against a war he fought in while saving the lives of his men. Bush was a cheerleader who then dodged his service to the then cushy National Guard duty his dad got him out of. McCain's service in Viet-Nam didn't teach him that some wars are wrong and miss-guided. He of all people should have sent the parallels to Iraq, yet he was the first to want to attack the wrong country weeks after 9-11. Before anyone knew for sure who had even hit us.

    There are a lot of Democratic war heroes coming out of Iraq...how will you denigrate their service when they start running for office. I'd say a triple amputee has the right to make the same claim on leadership experience as a P.O.W.

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 2:49pm

  45. ANYONE WHO MENTIONS REVERND WRIGHT AGAIN AGREES WITH THIS!!!

    MCCAIN…AGAINST THE AGENTS OF INTOLERANCE BEFORE HE WAS FOR THEM…ERR, I MEAN BEFORE HE NEEDED THEM!!!

    Pastor Hagee May 21st 2008 (McCain sought his "political endorsement"

    "Then god sent a hunter. A hunter is someone with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter. And the Bible says -- Jeremiah writing -- 'They shall hunt them from every mountain and from every hill and from the holes of the rocks,' meaning there's no place to hide. And that might be offensive to some people but don't let your heart be offended. I didn't write it, Jeremiah wrote it. It was the truth and it is the truth. How did it happen? Because God allowed it to happen. Why did it happen? Because God said my top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come back to the land of Israel."

    http://mediamatters.org/items/200803140013

    John Hagee has said that "Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans," and pastor Rod Parsley reportedly wrote that "America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion [of Islam] destroyed."

    Jerry Falwell (Burn in hell…McCain also sought his endorsement)

    http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/rel_war/falwell_jews.htm

    "In a church in Kingsport, Falwell told an enthusiastic audience that the Antichrist was alive, walking around somewhere, and was a male Jew. What he didn't know was a reporter was in the audience and the word leaked out." "Falwell concludes his website with the statement that his remark that the Antichrist is a Jew is neither anti-Jewish nor anti-Semitic and that some of his best friends are Jewish. This is total nonsense. Why has his Southern Baptist Convention opened a national campaign targeting Jews?

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 2:50pm

  46. Since it's always seems to be a 50/50 electorate anyway, let's give Democrats and Republicans 8 years each. Over the last 20 years we have been that gridlocked. Reagan/Bush Sr. had 12 years of "Trickle-Down" economics, and the middle and lower-class just got pissed on instead. Clinton comes along and leaves a balanced budget, a huge surplus, oh and a warning about Osama Bin Laden. Clinton tried to get Bin Laden a hella' of lot more than Bush ever has…but anyway. So in comes DUBYA trying to outdo poppa's legacy, and boy did he. So much so even poppa is ashamed. Maybe McCain should have won in 2000, while he was still sane. But then again he still would've attacked Iraq so I don't know. Maybe all his experience and fighting one wrong war personally didn't teach him good judgment after all. So in comes DUBYA thanks to his dad's Supreme Court appointee's DUBYA relives "Trickle Down Economics". I hate to tell ya' that's not rain folks. So hopefully Obama/Biden will fix it for the next 8 years, while we all save money in anticipation of when you numb-skulls get your hands on the economy again.

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 2:51pm

  47. Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 2:50pm

    CONSHAME...is that you again?

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/08/2008 @ 2:53pm

  48. "Cheney then Palin, we could only be so fortunate as to have this succession of VP's."

    indeed. i wake up every day and thank the Almighty that we have cheney. in fact, i keep a picture of cheney underneath my pillow. very soon, i will replace that picture with one of palin. god bless america.

    Posted by darladoon at 09/08/2008 @ 2:54pm

  49. Sorry for the bombardment, but these are my arguments to fight all the divisive, tired, hypocritical rhetoric everywhere I look. Republicans seem to love to insult people lately. That's what happens when you don't have any new ideas; your brain turns to mush. Can't even come up with their own campaign. MCPAIN really is running an "Amnesia Campaign".

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 2:55pm

  50. You can't legislate thought and free will. That's why a woman's right to choose what to do with her own body should always be protected. What right do you have to make a woman die to have a baby, or carry a rape baby to term. So do you think every teen-age girl who is impregnated by her father should have his baby? Suppose a mother of two gets pregnant with twins, they find a tumor growing that will kill the mother before twins can be born safely. Should she die so the twins MIGHT live and then 4 children lose a mother. She had to choose to abort her twins to be there to raise the 2 children she already had. Do you think the mother WANTED to do it? What about a young sinlge woman who has sex using birth-control, but gets pregnant. She has a new job and no insurance. Having a baby is not financially possible to her, much less carrying it to term. She'd be homeless in the 8th month. These are the CHOICES women face, and none of them are baby-killers. They are people put into horrible situations, often outside of their control. Girls were dying getting abortions with coat-hangers before Roe V Wade, you'll never stop it. That's not to mention the financial aspect to people who can't afford it, like teen-agers whose mothers aren't Governors. The world is not Black and White, I say again...you can't legislate thought and free-will. Why aren't people lining up at abortion clinics to offer adoptions, instead standing and judging people they don't know anything about.

    There are so many more important issues that aren't theological we should solve, rather than the ones that can't. You have a Democratic nominee willing to end late-term abortions unless the mother would die other-wise. It's the best you're going to get Constitutionally...take it.

    McCain was for Abortion befor

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 2:56pm

  51. Let's send all the people who came in last at the Olympics to compete from now on. Since we're no longer competing at anything but military might, why not just cash it in? Stop trying?

    "C STUDENTS OF THE WORLD UNITE TO DESTROY IT!!!"

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 2:59pm

  52. Posted by darladoon at 09/08/2008 @ 2:54pm

    LOL! She is cute, though not your type.

    :-)

    Posted by Benchrest at 09/08/2008 @ 3:00pm

  53. Not citing a quote once, after citing it previously 10 times at least must be an un-electable, plagiaristic crime.

    You know what should really be an un-electable crime? Not knowing anything about the war you're sending your son off to fight, while announcing it to the world when he'll be there.

    I hope Charlie Gibson asks...

    "What do you think of how God's plan for Iraq has turned out?"

    "Do you think God...err, I mean Bush should have sent troops into Iraq to begin with? You know...given he had to lie and commit treason to get them there?"

    "Why does McCain apparently not even know what Walter Reed looks like?"

    I better stop...I might give Joe Lieberman too much of a head start. I bet they bump the interview when she flunks Joe's tests. He must not be such a good teacher...McCain is still getting Iraq wrong, along with the difference between Sunni and Shiite. I guess you have to consider the choice after all. Huh McCain?

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 3:02pm

  54. McCain/Palin "country first", should be McSame/Puke " Corporations First"

    Posted by insanelayne at 09/08/2008 @ 3:05pm

  55. "McCain is Johnny on the spot. You strike me as Johnny come lately."

    Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 2:47pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Oops...I forgot, people for MCPAIN want to kill free speech, ban books, and continue Bush's only accomplishment while in office...trashing the Constitution.

    Were you against Cheney who dodged the draft? Or Bush who never even showed up for National Guard duty? Are you defending Viet-Nam as a rational war that nobody tried to get out of? Dying for someone else's country when there wasn't a threat to ours? Sound familiar? I guess you're blogging from Iraq. Or maybe waiting for McCain to re-instate the draft like's he "didn't disagree with" doing? I bet your rarin' to go right? Ready to dodge the new draft to a pointless war?

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 3:07pm

  56. "McCain is Johnny on the spot. You strike me as Johnny come lately."

    Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 2:47pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    I suppose along with 13 properties, McCain owns this blog too. I mean Cindy.

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 3:08pm

  57. FrankNoGrits-Let's talk about you and the fact that you just disrespected someone who is in the military rather than read your usual whine. Posted by i'm nobody at 09/08/2008 @ 2:49pm

    Frank is impervious to logic.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/08/2008 @ 3:09pm

  58. if mccain really prefers his "country first," then why will 95% of the country not receive a tax break under his tax plan?

    Posted by darladoon at 09/08/2008 @ 3:18pm

  59. Posted by Benchrest at 09/08/2008 @ 3:00pm

    Never know, BENCH....

    could it be we learn that Palin was a "LUG" back at Univ. of Idaho???

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/08/2008 @ 3:24pm

  60. BTW, can you imagine if Obama or some Dem went to Univ. of Idaho...

    how many times some dopey right-winger would be mentioning that it was in...

    "MOSCOW, Idaho....huh?...huh? MOSCOW, Idaho...what does THAT tell you!?!?!?!?!"

    LOL

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/08/2008 @ 3:28pm

  61. Cheney endorses Palin .. if that isn't the kiss of the devil himself...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUfH03dDVeg

    Posted by leftofcenter at 09/08/2008 @ 3:39pm

  62. Okay imagine this as the voice of Walter Cronkite...

    "Sarah Palin, VP wanna' be rode in on her moose (before she shot it) and with the wit of her six-gun teleprompter, lit up a crowd eager to divide Americans on the pettiest of issues. While the United States of America circles the drain, they want to have another 4 years to prove once and for all their complete lack of competence on any conceivable level. I'm sure the thing that concerns Ms. Palin most is finding anyone who dropped a flag at Envesco Field, lining them up against a wall, and giving us all an example of her expert marksmanship. Just to show off, she might even do it...from a helicopter."

    Maybe she plans on suffocating McCain on his inauguration night, then hatching her and her husband's plan of moving the capital to Alaska, and seceding from the Union.

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 3:44pm

  63. One difference I've noticed between Conservatives and Liberals is that Cons are more honest with regard to admitting mistakes.----Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 09/08/2008 @ 3:39pm

    And YET ANOTHER Darin/MARYBRET "Conservatives/Republicans are good people....Liberals/Democrats are no-so-good pepole" posts.

    And we point out where Repubs and conservatives have NOT admitted where they were wrong...or lied....

    and he backpedals and says "Oh sure, both sides are bad"...and tries to act all innocent and "I wasn't saying nothin', just sayin'!"

    So, I'll start...

    go to www.thedailyshow.com

    and look a the "Sarah Palin Gender Card" video from last week with Karl Rove, Sean Hannity, Dick Morris and that woman with the funny last name....

    and tell us that "Conservatives are more honest", Darin.

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/08/2008 @ 3:44pm

  64. Lie Lie Miss American Pie.

    If McCain gets elected then America cries…

    "You good ole boys pulled the wool on our eyes…"

    Singing "this will be the day that we died."

    "This will be the day that we died."

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 3:44pm

  65. It is so ironic that the dems and the left is the most mysogynistic group in America today. Two women in the same year - that's hard to do! The fact is, ideology trumps race and gender every time, so the next time you call us racist, be careful for the quicksand. It is so easy to prove - if Condi Rice was running for president on the republican ticket, we would vote for her, enthusiastically. QED.

    Posted by pyeatte at 09/08/2008 @ 3:45pm

  66. Posted by darladoon at 09/08/2008 @ 3:18pm

    "Country First" is a an Obama put-down, playing into fears of some voters that Obama will put other countries interests ahead of the United States.

    McCain has now spun this to mean "reform" and that "country second" people are the Washington lobbyists that are funding and running his campaign.

    On domestic policy, Republicans are really "Wealthy First" and everyone else last, and on foreign policy, they are "MIC First, Big Oil Second, and AIPAC third" , with no other interests being considered at all.

    Posted by Metteyya at 09/08/2008 @ 3:46pm

  67. Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 09/08/2008 @ 3:44pm

    A joke, Darin. Palin too uptight to have "experimented" in college.

    But it WOULD be funny to see guys like you (and esp. LVLIB) trip all over themselves again on how "So? It was a youthful indiscretion!"....and then proceed to bring up Obama doing drugs in his youth again.

    I mean you probably think conservatives can still promote abstinence-only sex education ....and nobody will laugh...

    and point to a picture of Bristol "Juno from Juneau"....don't you?

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/08/2008 @ 3:47pm

  68. I agree with FrankGritts; Obama should have picked Hillary as VP. The only thing that can save Democrats right now is for Biden to step down.

    Posted by nursevic at 09/08/2008 @ 4:19pm

  69. You didn't like Hillary and now you don't like Palin. What female candidate would you vote for?

    Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 4:23pm

    KATHLEEN SEBELIUS

    Posted by Metteyya at 09/08/2008 @ 4:29pm

  70. Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 09/08/2008 @ 3:56pm

    Well, two points

    1. Like your comments about Rush being an idiot...I don't see you step up with HAPP or RIO/RED mention Obama's drug use and tell them they're "not credible". Again, more Darin "I"m a moderate and reasonable conservative....I just don't actually do anything to prove it!" stuff.

    2. If you're teaching your sons abstinence-only sex ed....you might want to prepare yourself for a possible new nick...

    "Grandpa Darin"!

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/08/2008 @ 4:39pm

  71. Darla ... welcome back!

    Now if we had Loveloki, I think most all the "old guard" would be back.

    A round of Kum ba yah anyone?

    Posted by leftofcenter at 09/08/2008 @ 4:51pm

  72. FRANK on a tear again...

    Oddly coincidental with the end of the Limbaugh show....heheh

    Again and again, remember guys and gals...

    with FG, it's about ONE thing..."gotta get 2012 for Hillary!"

    And again, if you want to scare FRANK...post this-

    "Now she's (Hillary) taking the air out of the Obama balloon with some pretty drab campaigning."-----Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 2:23pm

    and tell him, "Yep, FRANK, and if Obama loses, we're going to credit her for her drab campaigning...all the way until 2012!"

    And he'll go nuts and say "No, no, wait a minute guys! Youu can't blame HER...she's...uh...just not inspired....Yeah! That's the ticket! Inspired! ... It's not HER fault...it's the mulatto's fault!!!!"

    LOL

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/08/2008 @ 4:52pm

  73. "What female candidate would you vote for?"

    i don't vote for women just because they share my chromosomes. i vote for qualified candidates who (hopefully) share at least some of my values and opinions. if a candidate happens to share my chromosomes, it is merely coincidental.

    Posted by darladoon at 09/08/2008 @ 5:12pm

  74. >>>KATHLEEN SEBELIUS

    Posted by Metteyya at 09/08/2008 @ 4:29pm

    WHO?

    Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 4:46pm <<<

    The one who will REPLACE Hillary if she continues to think this election is about her or about keeping her chances alive for 2012!

    Posted by Metteyya at 09/08/2008 @ 5:17pm

  75. KATHLEEN SEBELIUS

    Posted by Metteyya at 09/08/2008 @ 4:29pm

    WHO?

    Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 4:46pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Hey GRITS, can you name some Republican women infinitely more qualified than "Sister Sarah"?

    If not, that's truly a sad statement about the future of the Republican Party. You should worry. But it makes me feel just fine.

    BTW, when do you ever make a rational point, and actually try to back it up by citing...well, anything other than Rush. I guess Rush's drug use disqualifies him for President. Breaks your heart don't it?

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008 @ 5:37pm

  76. Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 5:39pm

    If ANY Hillary voter votes for Sarah Palin, then all this demonstrates is that this voter never believed in ANYTHING Hillary stood for or anything the Democratic party is about.

    And, yes, there were a lot of Operation Chaos types "supporting" Hillary, so why do we care if they now show their true colors (hint, hint, FRANKGRITS) and support the Republicans?

    Posted by Metteyya at 09/08/2008 @ 6:12pm

  77. >>>Christian female V.P. candidate with 10 times the Executive experience as the Undemocratic Pres. wannabe!

    Posted by RedRiver_. at 09/08/2008 @ 6:16pm<<<

    Then maybe she should be at the TOP of the ticket with that logic? She certainly has more "executive" experience than John McCain, even though it was running a moose town of 5,000 inhabitants with one local bar, one restaurant, and city hall in the basement of a hockey rink!

    Posted by Metteyya at 09/08/2008 @ 6:23pm

  78. >>>Christian female V.P. candidate with 10 times the Executive experience as the Undemocratic Pres. wannabe!

    Posted by RedRiver_. at 09/08/2008 @ 6:16pm<<<

    Or maybe all of those large inner-city high schools with 4-5,000 students should put up their principals as candidates for president?

    It sure is a MUCH harder job than running a moose town!

    Posted by Metteyya at 09/08/2008 @ 6:44pm

  79. FrankNoGrits-It has nothing to do with Hillary so you can't say I told you so,but let's discuss the fact that you disrespected a troop who is going to Iraq by making the amazingly and incredibly ignorant statement that there are safe jobs in a war zone.

    Posted by i'm nobody at 09/08/2008 @ 6:54pm

  80. Gallup----McCain up 4% Do you think Palin had anything to do with that???? Does a wild bear deposit fecal matter in the woods??? or should I say: Does a liberal democrat despise anyone who has more than they do????

    Posted by Len Mosse at 09/08/2008 @ 7:16pm

  81. USA/Gallop poll of likely voters, just released. McCain 54%, Obama 44%.

    Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 1:42pm

    Seems that until one set of candidates breaks well into the 50's the electorate hasn't really made up its mind and in a year when we are told the Bush negatives should be dragging down the Repubs the polls look to have disaster for Obama/Biden written all over them.

    It is very rare for intellectuals and academics to achieve political leadership, at least in the West. Successful politicians all seem to have a bit of the mongrel in them. It is probably that intellectuals, because they evaluate all sides of the argument, often seem uncertain and even diffident to the voters who want action. To me Obama, under pressure, is coming across as a thoughtful, nice man who seems to be out of his depth with pit bulls and "mongrels".

    That is probably being read by that portion of the public, who are responding to Palin and to a lesser extent "fighter" McCain, that Obama doesn't really understand their aspirations and is ambivalent where they expect him to be strong.

    Those politicians, who are able to lock in the aspirational class rather than those who run on a social reform platform have, recently, dominated politics, in the English-speaking world.

    Posted by lrjones4 at 09/08/2008 @ 7:25pm

  82. "with 10 times the Executive experience as the Undemocratic Pres. wannabe!"

    the two most overused characterizations of the american presidency are:

    "commander in chief" (the president is only commander in chief of the armed forces, during a war; otherwise, he/she is merely the president).

    "executive experience" (the president is an executive, but not in the same sense as a corporate executive; so to claim that palin is more qualified than obama because she has CEO experience is grossly misleading).

    Posted by darladoon at 09/08/2008 @ 7:27pm

  83. "Palin, McCain, or a urban High School Principle are ALL more highly qualified than Obamanation the empty suit!"

    so over-qualified is mccain, in fact, that he plans to give tax breaks only to those making more than $171,000/year, while simultaneously claiming that he is "going to lower your taxes." 95% of americans will not receive a tax break under the mccain plan.

    there isn't a single prominent economist who believes that mccain will balance the budget by 2013. in fact, they all believe that mccain will only *increase* the deficit, as a result of his economic policies.

    his qualifications are made irrelevant by his proposals, and by his past judgements.

    Posted by darladoon at 09/08/2008 @ 7:36pm

  84. "These are the democrats who will vote for Mccain/Palin."

    Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 7:33pm

    Do you believe their numbers to approximate about half of the democratic party, or even more?

    Posted by Benchrest at 09/08/2008 @ 7:45pm

  85. "Everyone who believes that Bill and Hillary really, really want Barack Obama to win in November please raise your hands."

    Posted by namron8255 at 08/25/2008 @ 12:11am

    "If they don't they'll be in company with about half of the democratic party."

    Posted by frankgrits at 08/25/2008 @ 12:24am

    Are you SURE that you don't believe their numbers to approximate about half of the democratic party?

    Posted by Benchrest at 09/08/2008 @ 8:05pm

  86. Nobody knows the exact numbers.

    Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 8:13pm

    Agreed.

    We will find out soon enough anyway.

    Posted by Benchrest at 09/08/2008 @ 8:17pm

  87. Again, FRANK is laying the groundwork for his worst nightmare...(probably thinks nobody will remember)..

    he's telling us that if Obama loses, Hillary and her followers can be blamed.

    Ask him if he wants that...and if not, why does he keep telling us it's true?

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/08/2008 @ 9:22pm

  88. The more i learn about Ms. Palin the more frightened I am about the possibility of her becoming the vice president of my country. She seems more like George Bush on steroids instead of an independent or a maverick. I can't see any difference from her and McCain and George Bush and Dick Cheney.

    Posted by lachatte at 09/08/2008 @ 9:30pm

  89. Cheney then Palin, we could only be so fortunate as to have this succession of VP's.

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 09/08/2008 @ 1:21pm

    Oh, puke.

    Posted by skeletonman at 09/08/2008 @ 9:32pm

  90. I still don't think her supporters will be moved for her calls for unity.

    Posted by frankgrits at 08/24/2008 @ 7:25pm

    FG thinks most if not ALL "Hillary supporters" are like him and PUMA.

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/24/2008 @ 8:46pm

    And of course you are wrong again. I don't think anything of the kind. But there are enough to elect McCain.

    Posted by frankgrits at 08/24/2008 @ 11:04pm

    Everyone who believes that Bill and Hillary really, really want Barack Obama to win in November please raise your hands.

    Posted by namron8255 at 08/25/2008 @ 12:11am

    If they don't they'll be in company with about half of the democratic party.

    Posted by frankgrits at 08/25/2008 @ 12:24am

    Frank, relative to the above posts, you seem to be hinting that if Obama loses, that Hillary and her followers can be blamed, or in other words, given 'credit' for the defeat.

    Is that the game?

    Posted by Benchrest at 09/08/2008 @ 10:00pm

  91. and tonight on Oxygen, Sarah Palin as "The Moose Whisperer"

    Posted by leftofcenter at 09/08/2008 @ 10:02pm

  92. Posted by Benchrest at 09/08/2008 @ 10:00pm

    If he reads that....you WILL see FRANK ...

    panic!

    Same reason he put me on Ignore...a few weeks back I started CASUALLY ribbing him about how, if Obama lost, I would give HIM and other "HILLARY supporters" the full credit they deserve for it.

    He IMMEDIATELY started posting how "Hillary's out there fighting for Obama....her and Bill are what helped fire up the crowds that Obama enjoyed!"

    See, he's caught in a quandary, a paradox (one of many he's built for himself).

    One hand he wants to think of himself and the PUMAs as "most of the Democratic Party, or atleast half"....to pump up his massive ego. Hence the ("If they don't they'll be in company with about half of the democratic party."---Posted by frankgrits at 08/25/2008 @ 12:24am) post...

    but on the other hand, if he proclaims loud enough and long enough that HILLARY supporters will undercut Obama....

    why SOME of us, including (by his own admission) HALF the Democratic Party will...get mad....and BLAME FRANK, the PUMAs, and their Dark Goddess!

    And that means no 2012 primary victory and the Dark Tower collapses and the ground opens up and consumes the forces of Mordor! (melodramatic, but what the hell....he IS the official "Gollum" of this blog, once a kindly River folk, now demented by his obsession with the Precious!)

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/08/2008 @ 10:20pm

  93. Well, you just want Mr. Obama to put up or shut up (or down?). Big Mc is of course the number one maverick and Dems always entused when he attacked fellow gopers. How about Obama's change? 8 yrs ago Bubba promised lots of changes and he did accomplish lots of them. The same is with Obama now.

    -----------

    Obama: McCain-Palin 'lying' about maverick claims by Jitendra Joshi Jitendra Joshi 2 hrs 42 mins ago FARMINGTON HILLS, Michigan (AFP) – Barack Obama ripped into John McCain and Sarah Palin as never before Monday, accusing his Republican White House foes of "shameless" dishonesty with their claim to be "mavericks" ready to shake up Washington.

    McCain and Palin were "lying about their records," the Obama campaign said after the Republican running mates advertised themselves in a television spot as the "original mavericks" who would stand up for hard-pressed voters.

    Some of the White House race's most savage exchanges yet came as polls showed the contenders deadlocked or McCain pulling into a post-convention lead after he electrified the Republican base -- and appeared to confound the Obama campaign -- by adding Alaska Governor Palin to his ticket.

    Posted by HelenDAO at 09/08/2008 @ 10:33pm

  94. "Funny how the left can offer NO, NADA, ZIP, and NONE as proof that any policy or judgement of Obamanation will positively impact any aspect of American life! I guess being "present" 130 times is all the credentials they require?!?!"

    this is what's called a non-sequitor.

    how can one even offer *proof* of any future event?

    what we *do* know, however, is that mccain is LYING when he says that obama will raise our taxes. obama will merely rescind the bush tax cuts on those making over 171,000/year.

    every leading economist agrees that we need to raise taxes on upper income earners in order to at least minimally mitigate the damage caused by the bush presidency.

    in fact, that we are even debating this is evidence that the right wing controls the (retarded) idea that raising taxes is bad for the economy.

    "country first"?? mccain is a traitor to his country. .

    Posted by darladoon at 09/08/2008 @ 10:35pm

  95. "If democrats voting for John McCain and Sarah Palin disappoints the party or angers them, they have no-one to blame but themselves."

    Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 10:37pm

    Gotcha.

    Checkmate.

    Posted by Benchrest at 09/08/2008 @ 10:41pm

  96. What does the checkmate mean?

    Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 10:52pm

    Frank, you take all the fun out of making a point.

    The party didn't vote the way they were supposed to vote, so now "they have no- one to blame but themselves."

    So now that other half of the democratic party...

    "Then there is the other democratic party. It's the one where the Clintons live. That's the place where people are rewarded for working hard and play by the rules. They don't look for handouts and don't want them. These are the democrats who will vote for Mccain/Palin."

    ...gets FULL credit for the kill.

    This in effect officially kills her political ambitions for 2012, if not her outright career.

    Not exactly a win-win is it

    Posted by Benchrest at 09/08/2008 @ 11:14pm

  97. BEWARE!!! If McCain dies midway , the world gonna be hit by a Tornado called Palin!!!This trigger happy half-wit, pea sized brain showboat who like a teenager want to depict as Macho, had played up to the galleries (innocent people)! She would bring WORLD ORDER into disarrayed unprecedented catastrophic proportions that would destroy USA economy (never to recover in dozens of years)by insane participation in yet more wars (just on the pretext to show-off I am the commander-in-chief.

    She would inspire and breed more Al-Qaida, and would love to disregard her own staff (school girl mentality remember?) would love to veto congress mandates repeatedly (with a hidden smile) just for the heck of it - to show of Palin power!

    This Bitch is out of touch with reality. Such a serious issue of GLOBAL WARMING and their current destructive aftermath so gravely felt by the poor victims of Gustav, tsunami, Katrina coupled with so much loss of life and property she makes FUN of GLOBAL WARMING? Even uneducated truck driver or alchoholic in a bar wouldn't do. Wherein she makes a mockery of it just because GLOBAL WARMING is on Obama agenda? Imagine she is contesting for the Vice Presidency slot of USA with this cynical mentality!! UNBELIEVABLE! DIE BITCH!!! How dare you!!!!!! Ask those victims who lost their loved ones, property and possessions!

    PLEASE, PLEASE, SHE DOESN'T HAVE THE BRAINS NOR A COMPASSIONATE HEART TO BE THE VICE PRESIDENT. NOTE IN COMPARISON THERE WAS NO NEED FOR BARRACK TO COMPLIMENT THAT SURGE IS WORKING AFFECTIVELY, KNOWING HOW THE GOONS AT FOX WILL EXPLOIT HIS STATEMENT, BUT YET HE DID IT, THIS SHOWS CHARACTER AND TRANSPARENCY!

    So let us be honest and elect the right honest person so that our lives and childrenS' improve. We gave chance to Dick Cheney t

    Posted by aleemsyed at 09/08/2008 @ 11:31pm

  98. "John Mccain is the most experienced man for President."

    this is the most meaningless statement on this forum.

    Posted by darladoon at 09/08/2008 @ 11:31pm

  99. Boy, panic in the fever swamps today, huh? Obama's lead evaporated quicker than kool-aid on a summer day in Guyana.

    I keep hearing the profoundly guffaw-inducing claim from the lefties that Obama's proposed tax increase, the largest in history, isn't really a tax increase because it'll only be on other people. Now folks, really. Do you really think that the people who pay the taxes are not going to pass them on to you? Do you think a doctor making $200 k per year is going to forego his E-class Mercedes merely because the government raised his taxes? No...he's going to raise his fees. And the little people are going to pay for it. If you don't realize this, you must still believe in Santa Claus. Or you're a leftist. But I repeat myself.

    Posted by pontificus at 09/08/2008 @ 11:33pm

  100. Contd........So let us be honest and elect the right honest person so that our lives and children' improve. Dick Cheney is devil; Bush is an alcoholic with no conscience and now this self – centered arrogant bitch who sacks people who didn't play patsy to her by refusing her orders by not sacking her brother-in -law who divorced her sister! We are talking about a beautiful country, the capital of planet earth, so let us be careful with our precious votes.

    Posted by aleemsyed at 09/08/2008 @ 11:35pm

  101. "That's because I'm having trouble following your point."

    Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 11:28pm

    Frank, you are a political animal, an expert in politics by your own admissions. (Yes, I can find the posts.)

    The probability that you suddenly can't follow a simple point is nill, so what conclusion does that leave?

    That you again are being stubborn? That goes without saying.

    Or that you are being dishonest? I'll let you make that call.

    Posted by Benchrest at 09/08/2008 @ 11:39pm

  102. Posted by darladoon at 09/08/2008 @ 10:35pm

    "in fact, that we are even debating this is evidence that the right wing controls the (retarded) idea that raising taxes is bad for the economy."

    Well, hell, Darla, if raising taxes isn't bad for the economy, perhaps you could spare a little time away from your bong to edjicate the rest of us here in fly-over country. Maybe you could explain to us why virtually every economist agrees that the last thing the government should do with the economy sliding into a recession (which according to the MSM we have been every year of the Bush Presidency) is raise taxes. And if raising taxes does not adversely affect the economy, why don't we just raise taxes to 100 percent? Then things would be just peachy, the government with lots of money to spend to support you and everyone else, and the economy would be just fine! Right?

    Posted by pontificus at 09/08/2008 @ 11:45pm

  103. Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 11:40pm

    "So much for trickle down huh Ponti?"

    I'd say that's exactly what trickle-down is. Except when taxes are raised, it works in reverse.

    Posted by pontificus at 09/08/2008 @ 11:50pm

  104. "I am neither dishonest nor stubborn. If there was a point in there somewhere, I didn't get it. I did try to answer you as honestly and directly as I could. If you'd like to ask me a direct question, fire away and I'll answer it but don't beat around the bush."

    Posted by frankgrits at 09/08/2008 @ 11:42pm

    So, you have engaged the Plausible Deniability Strategy, for which there is no solution.

    You take the cake. Enjoy.

    Posted by Benchrest at 09/08/2008 @ 11:54pm

  105. Those politicians, who are able to lock in the aspirational class rather than those who run on a social reform platform have, recently, dominated politics, in the English-speaking world.

    Posted by lrjones4 at 09/08/2008 @ 7:25pm

    tell me about it.

    help!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/09/2008 @ 12:23am

  106. if a candidate happens to share my chromosomes, it is merely coincidental.

    Posted by darladoon at 09/08/2008 @ 5:12pm

    the problem is that after they get elected many try to share THEIR chromosomes.....

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/09/2008 @ 12:25am

  107. We will find out soon enough anyway.

    Posted by Benchrest at 09/08/2008 @ 8:17pm

    not nearly soon enough.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/09/2008 @ 12:26am

  108. I know screaming in text is as pointless as trying to use the facts.

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/08/2008

    alas..........

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/09/2008 @ 12:28am

  109. hi darla.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/09/2008 @ 12:29am

  110. north carolina mountains etc.

    Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 09/08/2008 @ 3:39pm

    darin, don't you realize the same people you vote for are those who would love to tear that beautiful slice of earth apart so they can make MORE money?

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/09/2008 @ 12:33am

  111. trickle-down?

    more like piss on.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/09/2008 @ 12:37am

  112. "Maybe you could explain to us why virtually every economist agrees that the last thing the government should do with the economy sliding into a recession (which according to the MSM we have been every year of the Bush Presidency) is raise taxes"

    actually, the exact opposite is true. according to the vast majority of prominent economists, on both the left and the right, now is *precisely* the time to raise taxes on upper income earners, and give tax breaks to those who are most feeling the pinch.

    "but Obama's sock-the-rich scheme is likely to backfire in the face of a weak economy"

    there is simply no evidence to support this claim.

    "estimates that all told wealthy individuals could pay a marginal tax rate of nearly 50%, compared to the current 34% rate"

    false! the rate would go up to 39%, not 50%. hardly a "massive" increase.

    you can say all you want about taxes, but mccain is LYING when he says that obama is "going to raise your taxes." unless, of course, you are RICH.

    and anyone who claims that obama's tax plan is european (see the heritage inst) is so full of shit that i don't even have time to deal with it......

    Posted by darladoon at 09/09/2008 @ 12:44am

  113. how is returning tax levels to what they were in the late 90s a bad thing? can any reasonable person answer this question?

    clearly (!), bush's tax policies have been nothing short of reprehensible. the benefits to the very wealthiest of americans (the upper 0.1%) have been so egregious, so plutocratic, so extreme.....that it simply goes without saying. we have lost hundreds of billions as a result.

    can any person here possibly justify this loss of revenue, especially in light of the fact that we simply cannot pay for a vasy array of public services? it's abhorrent, and every reasonable person knows it.

    what sort of psycho can justify making the wealthiest 0.1% even wealthier? seriously! i mean, what the f*ck is wrong with this country when lower and middle income earners get sucked into believing that enriching the already stupendously rich is a wise economic plan?

    i'll tell you what's wrong: media propaganda. all of you people who support mccain's tax plan have been brainwashed. it's as simple as that.

    government is broke. so, make it more broke, and yet simultaneously give more to the wealthiest 0.1% of earners?? what the f*ck sort of logic is that?!

    the politicians, and their fat cat friends, know they can brainwash the lower and middle classes via the media apparatus. simply convince them that giving more and more tax breaks to the very wealthiest individuals (the aristocracy) will somehow benefit the most desperate. yeah, that makes a lot of f*cking sense.

    mccain is a LIAR.

    obama, while not perfect, at least recognizes the need to bring in more revenue, and the only people complaining about it are:

    a) college republicans

    b) fox news

    i don't see a coalition of billionaires getting together to protest this....

    Posted by darladoon at 09/09/2008 @ 01:44am

  114. i don't see a coalition of billionaires getting together to protest this....

    Posted by darladoon at 09/09/2008 @ 01:44am

    no, they use surrogates.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/09/2008 @ 01:56am

  115. ...the aspirational class speaking-

    Bob___Hell man, If I was rich I wouldn't want to pay any taxes either!

    Me____Really? Where you off to, Bob?

    Bob____Goin down to the SSI office, Got a claim in. Hell, man, if I don't get it, some worthless bum will.

    Me___Hey, where's your wife?

    Bob___Down at the SSI office. She's applying too.

    Me___Aren't you concerned somebody truly needful will be denied?

    Bob____Oh, hell no. What do think I been paying taxes for?

    Posted by Sorelish at 09/09/2008 @ 01:57am

  116. Mr Nichols, If you look at the situation, Cheney probably does think Palin is perfect for the job. She lies out her ass much the same as Cheney. She has no scruples....same as Cheney.

    What gets me about Palin and this hockey mom bullshit is that any "executive" is anything but a hockey mom. There's nothing wrong with career women, but come on, other people are raising her kids for her. For example, how can she and her hubby be taking care of their children while they were in MN during the convention? The kids go to school in Alaska right? She's about as much a hockey mom as Cheney's daugther is straight.

    Liver, So you're all behind a woman who encourages to her children to have unprotected sex out of wedlock and support a vice president who has a gay daughter.....who knew you were such a liberal thinker! lol

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/09/2008 @ 04:07am

  117. McCain may be elected president. As he is already 72 years old, he may well croak on the job. Then Palin - whose honesty is not beyond doubt - will become the next President of the USA. She will decide what happens to the economy, healthcare, the environment, foreign policy - a prospect too ghastly to contemplate.

    Posted by mien at 09/09/2008 @ 07:05am

  118. Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/09/2008 @ 04:07am

    Are you saying that having children makes one automatically unqualified to be Vice President? If so, your logic appears to be saying JFK was unqualified - and Palin in only going to be Vice President.

    Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 07:42am

  119. Posted by darladoon at 09/09/2008 @ 01:44am

    Darla, I consider it to be fairly well established that raising taxes at some point is detrimental to the economy, and I'm quite sure that this is the conventional view in economics. So obviously, your statement that 'raising taxes does not hurt the economy' is not correct in all cases.

    When Bill Clinton raised taxes, you seem to think this was good for the economy because it did well after that. Actually, there were a lot of other reasons the economy did well, most notably because we had just exited from a recession, and because the Soviet Empire had fallen, relieving a big strain both on our budget and our economy.

    Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 08:25am

  120. Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 09/09/2008 @ 08:01am

    These folks have a funny way of looking at things. They used to rationalize that they weren't raising taxes, they're 'enhancing revenue'. Now they're saying they're not going to raise taxes, they're going to 'rescind previous tax cuts'. The odd thing is, they actually seem to be able to fool themselves with this kind of semantic gymnastics. And all of this money that they're raising is not coming from the average American, why, it's coming from that vast, inexhaustible supply of wealth that is spontaneously generated in them rich people's checking accounts! Free money! Not a tax increase at all!

    And the media and the Democratic politicians avidly encourage this kind of ignorance.

    Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 08:59am

  121. Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 09/09/2008 @ 08:01am

    Darin, I didn't realize you were that rich.

    The Bush cuts mostly go to the top 2% and Obama's middle class tax cut goes to 95% of Americans.

    Despite the lies, otherwise known as GOP talking points, most Americans will NOT see a tax increase under Obama.

    BTW, the Bush cuts are set to expire anyway in 2010....you'd don't REALLY that even if McCain wins (because it WON'T be a "mandate landslide"), that he's going to get the Dem Congress to make them permanent do you? You DO KNOW that McCain's promises for permanent tax cuts...are empty rhetoric?

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/09/2008 @ 09:11am

  122. Posted by Maskdelta at 09/09/2008 @ 09:11am

    MASK, your economic ignorance is profound but not surprising.

    'Most Americans will not see a tax increase'? What utter bullshit. Unless you live in some sort of fantasy world, you realize that most taxes are already paid by 'rich people'. Rich people pass these taxes on to everyone else. You've bought into some kind of fantasty shell game, eagerly purveyed by Democratic politicians and lapped up without question by people like yourself and Darla. And your point about McCain not being able to follow through on his tax cut pledge because your own politicians will stop him is circular logic.

    Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 09:17am

  123. <i>FrankNoGrits-Do you have anything that shows that people are flocking to McCain? Posted by i'm nobody at 09/08/2008 @ 2:35pm | </i>

    When McCain raises $5,000,000 in 5 hours.....in CHICAGO, that's kinda hard to ignore.

    Posted by State17 at 09/09/2008 @ 09:24am

  124. Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 09:17am

    PONTI, explain in detail, how a rich person is going to "pass along" their tax increase to me?

    Remember...we're not talking corporations (yet), we're talking PERSONAL INCOME taxes.

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/09/2008 @ 10:12am

  125. Posted by Maskdelta at 09/09/2008 @ 10:12am

    Okay, MASK. Let's say you're a doctor, or any other highly paid professional for that matter, making $250,000 per year. Suddenly, the government raises your taxes by $20,000. Do you think the average doctor is going to simply live on $20,000 less? Dream on. He raises his fees 10 percent, citing increased costs. Who pays? The patients. And this does not apply just to doctors, or even professionals for that matter. It applies across the board. Increased taxes are simply passed on to the customers as a higher cost of doing business. And because all such providers are in the same boat, there is no competitive pressure to avoid the cost increases.

    Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 10:18am

  126. Here's another question for you, MASK. Let's see what you think of this.

    In my former State of Maryland, cyanide blue on today's maps, the government make billions per year from the lottery. Of course, almost all of the money that comes from the lottery comes from poor people. And of course, the State promotes gambling to these people prodigiously, claiming 'you gotta play to win!'. The State claims, of course, that this source of funding is sorely needed to address the needs of, you got it, poor people. Now do you think it's better for the poor people for them to have their own money, or have the State soak it from them through get-rich-schemes that are only guaranteed to make them poorer?

    Oh, and by the way, the State is eagerly attempting to put slot machines around the State as we speak. This is your wonderful government in action in a pure Democratic state. Do we want this model to spread? Not in my new state, thanks.

    Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 10:28am

  127. Are you saying that having children makes one automatically unqualified to be Vice President? If so, your logic appears to be saying JFK was unqualified - and Palin in only going to be Vice President.

    Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 07:42am

    No, I'm saying that Palin is no hockey mom. She's a political activist and now a political career woman. There's no time for her to be a hockey mom any more than Obama has time to be a soccer dad. They may be able to fit visits with their kids in around their hectic schedules, but she's no soccer mom.

    If you've ever played sports, you know what I mean.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/09/2008 @ 11:13am

  128. pontificus, show me the evidence that rich people are going to pass on their tax increases onto poor people?

    if fees go up, it is likely that poor people will simply go elsewhere. it makes little sense to pass on increased taxes onto the poor in the form of increased fees.

    and keep in mind, those making 1/4 million a year will only see marginal increases. the highest increases are, obviously, on those making more than 2 million/year.

    " Now do you think it's better for the poor people for them to have their own money, or have the State soak it from them through get-rich-schemes that are only guaranteed to make them poorer?"

    wow, ponti is really as slow as i thought. he appears to think that the lottery, and taxes, are mutually exclusive. incredible analysis, pontificus. here is a guy who believes that, under no circumstances, should taxes be raised on the upper 5%. even when we are headed into a very serious long term recession (thanks to bush's pinheaded tax cuts, disastrous wars, and ridiculously staffed economic cabinet)....

    ponti, please get a grip dude.

    Posted by darladoon at 09/09/2008 @ 11:22am

  129. Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/09/2008 @ 11:13am

    I don't know what you mean by 'political activist'. She was the Mayor of a small town, then she was elected governor. She has something like 5 kids. Apparently, she shoots caribou and operates a fishing boat. The 'political activists' I know exist mostly on the left, do little or nothing to support themselves, and thus have plenty of free time on their hands to do whatever nonsense comes into their heads. Most 'political activism' is the result of too much free time on peoples' hands.

    Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 11:24am

  130. "'Most Americans will not see a tax increase'? What utter bullshit. "

    mask is correct. 95% of americans will not see a tax increase under obama's plan.

    utter bullshit = mccain saying that obama will raise your taxes (unless, of course, you making 1/4 million and up)

    Posted by darladoon at 09/09/2008 @ 11:24am

  131. "The 'political activists' I know exist mostly on the left, do little or nothing to support themselves, and thus have plenty of free time on their hands to do whatever nonsense comes into their heads."

    and herein lies the dumbest thing to be written on these threads in the last 24 hours.

    Posted by darladoon at 09/09/2008 @ 11:25am

  132. Posted by darladoon at 09/09/2008 @ 11:22am

    "pontificus, show me the evidence that rich people are going to pass on their tax increases onto poor people? "

    Evidence? I consider it common sense.

    "if fees go up, it is likely that poor people will simply go elsewhere. it makes little sense to pass on increased taxes onto the poor in the form of increased fees. "

    As I said before, if you raise taxes on high earners as a class, they will pass those extra costs on as a class. There will be no competive pressure to stop this. If a doctor, for example, pledges to altruistically live on less money, he will soon be swamped with more patients than he can see and his net effect will be negligible. This is how the free market works. Increase costs mean higher prices for everyone.

    Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 11:29am

  133. The 'political activists' I know exist mostly on the left, do little or nothing to support themselves, and thus have plenty of free time on their hands to do whatever nonsense comes into their heads. Most 'political activism' is the result of too much free time on peoples' hands.

    Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 11:24am

    Now I know you don't have a clue. Who do you think all the folks who show up to the convention are? Who are all the idiots working on McCain and Palin's campaign committees?

    Have you ever wondered how Palin got into politics in the first place? She won a beauty pagent and then became mayor without anything going on in between? Get a clue. Like I said, soccer mom my ass.

    P.S. The first political activist I knew was my high school government teacher and she was a republican...also she ended up running for governor of the state of Montana. She'd make a much better vice president than Palin, but then again, she's didn't compete in a beauty pageant.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/09/2008 @ 11:31am

  134. Apparently, she shoots caribou and operates a fishing boat.

    Ponti,

    The word is that she likes to hunt from a helicopter as well. There are those who would call that poaching. Also, she's got a little too much free time on her hands if she's off hunting and fishing all the time don't you think? Now, there's no way she could take as much time off work as your hero W, but with you rethugs, the sky is the limit on how much you think you deserve in money, killing animals, and using tax money for your benefit only.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/09/2008 @ 11:34am

  135. Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/09/2008 @ 11:31am

    "Now I know you don't have a clue. Who do you think all the folks who show up to the convention are? Who are all the idiots working on McCain and Palin's campaign committees?"

    A convention only lasts three days every 4 years. Most people can fit that into a work schedule. Politicians also have subtantial paid staffs whose job it is to be there.

    I was thinking mostly of the idiots who have days or years to spend 'organizing', paying for boutique magazines like the Nation, and being that I live close to the Nation's capital, spending years on end demonstrating for or against every lefty cause that comes along. Most of them clearly don't have jobs because they live here year round and seem to show up at every rally from 'save the whales' to 'code pink'.

    Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 11:39am

  136. Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/09/2008 @ 11:34am

    "The word is that she likes to hunt from a helicopter as well. There are those who would call that poaching.Also, she's got a little too much free time on her hands if she's off hunting and fishing all the time don't you think? "

    You know, Wolfie, in Alaska, this is not done for sport. It's done to put food on the table. My understanding is that everything Palin ever shot went into the oven. The fishing boat she ran was her family's, done to make a living. Is that an alien concept to you?

    Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 11:43am

  137. Oh & by the way, the state is eagerly attempting to put slot machines around the State as we speak. This is your wonderful government in action in a pure Democratic state. Do we want this model to spread? Not in my new state, thanks.

    Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 10:28am | ignore this person | warn

    Maybe some people would like to have health care, fuel oil or school clothes, dipshit. Or should they just be bold & fake a resume?

    Posted by Sorelish at 09/09/2008 @ 11:50am

  138. pontificus appears to believe that doctors are merely self-interested vessels, with no deep, moral and ethical responsibilities and obligations to their patients.

    or that all other high income earners are merely self-interested as well, with no interest in putting "country first."

    so much for mccain's empty campaign slogan.

    Posted by darladoon at 09/09/2008 @ 11:54am

  139. pontificus, if "common sense" is the primary reason why doctors would only raise their fees if their income taxes increase, then wouldn't they be brutally betraying their OATH to serve their communities?

    and btw, the doctors don't charge the patients, they charge the insurance companies.

    welcome to reality, bro.

    Posted by darladoon at 09/09/2008 @ 11:56am

  140. Posted by darladoon at 09/09/2008 @ 11:54am

    Be that as it may, DARLA, I don't think it's a very realistic policy to rely on people's altruism to not raise prices when you increase their taxes.

    Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 12:09pm

  141. Posted by Sorelish at 09/09/2008 @ 11:50am

    "Maybe some people would like to have health care, fuel oil or school clothes, dipshit. Or should they just be bold & fake a resume?"

    So, given that most of the money that States make from the lotto comes from poor people, how does it benefit them to take it from them only to give it back, after an additional layer of bureaucracy takes their cut?

    Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 12:11pm

  142. PONTI, do you remember the 1993 tax hike?

    Of course you do, Rush and Sean and Michael Savage and Cal Thomas and Robert Novak and Byron York told you "It's the biggest tax hike IN HISTORY! It'll crash the economy! It won't touch the rich, but get passed down to the middle class and unemployment and inflation will SKYROCKET! We'll go back to the Jimmy Carter years!!!!!"

    and then, none of that happened...and you guys had to scramble to say "Oh, well, it was the 'tech bubble' that SAVED us from that...Clinton just got lucky...and all the balanced budgets and surpluses came from NEWT and the GOP and all the massive cuts in spending they enacted!!!"

    And then you tried to go back and do tax cuts again (a la Reagan)....and we got deficits again and a sluggish economy with minimal job growth....and you had to scramble again and blame it on "9/11" and "the Clinton recession that Dubya inherited" and "Repubs not sticking to their principles"...

    and now you want to KEEP trying it for 4 MORE years with Maverick and Caribou Barbie and tell us "OH, but THIS time, our Republican candidate MEANS it!"

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/09/2008 @ 12:14pm

  143. "I don't think it's a very realistic policy to rely on people's altruism to not raise prices when you increase their taxes"

    i don't think it's realistic for companies to raise prices and ultimately force their customers elsewhere.

    customers who are feeling the pinch, and who have no choice but to save .10 cents here and there, will do so.

    customers who make 1/4 million a year, they can afford to pay slightly extra, and usually do.

    i don't know a single person who makes 6 figures who complains much about anything (except bush).

    Posted by darladoon at 09/09/2008 @ 12:15pm

  144. Lies continue from bloggers and left activists about Palin (similar to those that Obama is a muslim) as reported today in Newsweek (not a conservative or right wing publication) in "Sliming Palin." Newsweek reports: 1. Palin did not cut spending for special needs education. She tripled per pupil spending for special needs children. 2. Palin did not demand books to be banned from a library. 3. Palin was never a member of the Alaska Independence Party. She has been registered as a Republican since 1982. 4. Palin never endorsed or supported Pat Buchanan. 5. Palin has never pushed for teaching creationism in public schools.

    Read the attached from Newsweek. See http://www.newsweek.com/id/157986

    Posted by pacerdhs at 09/09/2008 @ 12:18pm

  145. Posted by Maskdelta at 09/09/2008 @ 12:14pm

    Well, MASK, we could talk all day regarding the specifics of the '93 tax increase. Suffice it to say, the economy did well in the 90's in spite of it. I could argue that the improvements due to the information technology revolution and the fall of the Soviet Empire were the primary reasons why the entire world became richer during those years, and the tax increases were a burden we could afford to bear at that particular time in history. But of course, you will argue the paradoxical point that in some way, the tax increases actually made us richer.

    However, this does not substantiate the contention of DARLA and others here that 'tax increases do not harm the economy' or that 'tax increases do not get passed on to everyone'. Most economists agree that both cases are true, or else taxes would be 100 percent as they would be cost free, generating money from the ether.

    Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 12:25pm

  146. You know, Wolfie, in Alaska, this is not done for sport. It's done to put food on the table. My understanding is that everything Palin ever shot went into the oven. The fishing boat she ran was her family's, done to make a living. Is that an alien concept to you?

    Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 11:43am

    So, the Palin's eat polar bear and wolves? For most families, hunting isn't to put food on the table. It's a sport. Most people who hunt get off on being outdoors and others get off on killing animals and think they're manly for shooting an animal with a high powered rifle. Too bad the animals can't shoot back.

    I hate to tell you this, but mayors and governors make enough money to feed their families. I feed mine a fraction of what Palin makes. As a matter of fact, even Palin wouldn't be taxed under Obama's tax policy. Under McCain's she would though.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/09/2008 @ 12:27pm

  147. Posted by darladoon at 09/09/2008 @ 12:15pm

    "i don't think it's realistic for companies to raise prices and ultimately force their customers elsewhere."

    If you raise costs on all of them simultaneously, they will all raise their prices simultaneously. This is the third time I have made this point to you.

    "i don't know a single person who makes 6 figures who complains much about anything (except bush)."

    Then you don't have exposure to a very wide selection of viewpoints, do you? If you only know people who complain about Bush, either you know very few people, or you live in a very insulated society.

    Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 12:30pm

  148. don't know a single person who makes 6 figures who complains much about anything (except bush).

    Posted by darladoon at 09/09/2008 @ 12:15pm

    People making 6 figures are usually the first to whine. They are spoiled people used to getting their way. They don't like having to wait their turn in line nor do they think they should have to live by the same laws, rules or anything else the rest of the populace has to deal with.

    We are slowly but surely turning into a society similar to that of India with the "untouchables". You know, we're not good enough to be in their neighborhoods etc. Kind of like the old south dealing with people of color. I guess the wealthy like to have the feeling of superiority over others. Kind of elevates them to a God like position.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/09/2008 @ 12:34pm

  149. Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/09/2008 @ 12:27pm

    Palin's only been governor of Alaska for two years, Wolfie. I know it's not very long, but it's as long as Obama has been a Senator. She's not rich by any stretch, particulary compared to Obama, and everything she has she earned through hard work. How did Obama earn his money, again? Tony Rezko? Selling politica favors?

    Palin only went hunting for caribou, as far as I now, not polar bears or wolves. Her husband even went so far as to say he doesn't recommend it as a staple. And the fishing boat they own is the family business.

    Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 12:34pm

  150. "If you raise costs on all of them simultaneously, they will all raise their prices simultaneously"

    this is a claim which simply cannot be supported with any evidence whatsoever. and even it were true, since 95% of americans are getting a tax rebate, any price increases would be offset. thus, a win/win situation.

    but, pontificus, tell me how bush economic policies have been effective? tell me how mccain's same policies would be effective?

    tell me how enriching the upper 0.1% is effective?

    "How did Obama earn his money, again? Tony Rezko?"

    another fox talking point. has obama ever been charged or indicted? no. did obama *not* work hard his whole life?

    h0w did mccain suddenly get a private jet? seven houses? hmmmmm?

    Posted by darladoon at 09/09/2008 @ 12:39pm

  151. Posted by pontificus at 09/09/2008 @ 12:25pm

    Yes, well, thanks for confirming my prediction of your talking points....

    BTW, how was the economy under President Eisenhower? Good or bad?

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/09/2008 @ 12:39pm

  152. Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 09/09/2008 @ 12:51pm

    Darin, Obama is proposing a middle class tax cut....you deny that?

    BTW, why are you so cynical about Obama and tax increases...

    but think that McCain isn't capable of a "Bush-41 read my lips" moment? And SURELY you don't think that McCain will ACTUALLY GET the Bush cuts made permanent without winning 40+ states and 55-45 over Obama ....nor that he's going to find FOUR HUNDRED BILLION in "pork barrel earmarks" to cut?

    Do you??????

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/09/2008 @ 12:57pm

  153. But being manly has nothing to do with it. It is about maintaining traditions and sportsmanship (they bow hunt and haven't touched a rifle in years) and accepting moral responsibility for harvesting thier own meat, even if it is a small portion.

    Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 09/09/2008 @ 12:42pm

    Bow hunting is a hell of a lot more challenging than hunting with a rifle. Any jackass can go out and shoot an animal with a high powered rifle. Now, if you can get something using a bow, that's at least a little more of a challenge than pulling a trigger and aiming.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/09/2008 @ 1:02pm

  154. "but the top 1% earn 17% of income"

    wrong. the top 1% earn 76% of income.

    Posted by darladoon at 09/09/2008 @ 1:09pm

  155. Key phrase and for subsequent posts--

    "I think that is wrong."----Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 09/09/2008 @ 1:00pm

    Yes, you THINK that is wrong.

    Regardless of your concentration on percentages, ANY "across-the-board" tax cut by sheer cash taxed is going to favor the rich. John Kennedy admitted that with his "a-t-b" cut proposal of 1962...he simply felt that it would spur the economy.

    I tis impossible for you to BOTH argue that "the rich pay more than the rest of us in taxes" AND that "a tax cut cuts it for the rest of us MORE than it does for the rich" If taxs are cut, then those paying them ...see the amount they pay cut.

    But given you continually mouth the right-wing talking point of "Obama wants to tax ALL of us, because he wants to tax the upper income brackets" and the "poor, oppressed rich folks" talk that Limbaugh et al feed you...

    you give it a try.

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/09/2008 @ 1:50pm

  156. Bow hunting is a hell of a lot more challenging than hunting with a rifle. Any jackass can go out and shoot an animal with a high powered rifle.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/09/2008 @ 1:02pm

    Amen!

    Posted by Benchrest at 09/09/2008 @ 2:16pm

  157. 1 hour, 43 minutes ago

    WASHINGTON - Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin has charged her state a daily allowance, normally used for official travel, for more than 300 nights spent at her home, The Washington Post reported Tuesday. ADVERTISEMENT

    An analysis of travel statements filed by the governor, now John McCain's Republican running mate, shows she claimed the per diem allowance on 312 occasions when she was home in Wasilla and that she billed taxpayers $43,490 for travel by her husband and children.

    Posted by Metteyya at 09/09/2008 @ 2:39pm

  158. Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 09/09/2008 @ 2:03pm

    No, Darin, you did NOT "demonstrate" that. You relied on YOUR OWN (or the right-wing, actually) version of a subtle lie...

    obviously if you are rich and pay 2% less, your 2% less is likely to be a HELLUVA lot more than the 5% less paid by somebody middle class.

    Somebody making a million a year paying 2% less is paying a LOT less money than somebody making $35,000 a year who pays 5% less....right?

    And again, your contradiction is blatent....you at once bemoan the lot of the poor, oppressed rich paying ALL THOSE TAXES....

    and then say if you enact an across-the-board tax cut (a staple of Republican tax policy since Reagan...versus the targetted tax cuts the Dems propose)....

    it "mostly helps the bottem 95%"...

    well...how is that possible if "the rich are paying most of the taxes"?!?!?!?

    Seems if you cut taxes on EVERYBODY, then the rich would HAVE to get a tax cut too....and if they're "paying most of the taxes"...that means that "most of the taxes" just got lessened...for THEM....doesn't it?

    How do you cut the taxes of the "people who pay most of the taxes"...and then say it's "mostly helping the people who AREN'T paying most of the taxes"?!?!?!?!?

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/09/2008 @ 2:41pm

  159. former NY mayor Ed Kock just formally supported Obama and said "Palin makes me sick" or something to that effect...

    Don't expect to see this on the Commie News Network or other neocon slanted MSM.....

    conservative is not same as neocon...and bush is not 100% the same as mccain....95% is close enough...

    Posted by jrs112 at 09/09/2008 @ 2:42pm

  160. Bow hunting is a hell of a lot more challenging than hunting with a rifle. Any jackass can go out and shoot an animal with a high powered rifle. Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/09/2008 @ 1:02pm

    The best is long bow hunting. Screw compound bows. You need something that requires extreme skill to use. I say you shouldn't be allowed to hunt with anything you can't figure out how to make yourself.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/09/2008 @ 4:06pm

  161. "You see, $16.585 billion dollars is greater than $15.916 billion dollars. That's how I claim that the bottom 95% (or 96 or 97) get a larger tax cut than the top 1% (or 2 or 3). "

    You're forgetting that the ratio of your two numbers is only 1.04/1. Since the bottom 95% outnumber the top 1% by a considerably greater ratio, the average person in the 95% group gets a much smaller benefit than the average person in the top 1%.

    I'd stay away from the retarded cowboy if I were you, he'd clearly be too smart for you to deal with.

    Posted by brunowe at 09/09/2008 @ 4:07pm

  162. Hey Darin_the_Troll,

    http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc

    "Under both plans, all American taxpayers could pay a price for their tax cuts: a bigger deficit. The Tax Policy Center estimates that over 10 years, McCain's tax proposals could increase the national debt by as much as $4.5 trillion with interest, while Obama's could add as much as $3.3 trillion."

    What's 4.5 minus 3.3? Yep that's right...1.2 TRILLION!!!

    Obama will get more done while increasing the deficit less than McCain. Ya' the know...the economic genius that wants to follow the plans of a "retarded cowboy" who had his shot at 8 more years of "Trickle Down" economics. THEY DON'T WORK!!! I'm tired of gettin' pissed on...cause that's rain your dancing under.

    Now go ahead and insult me all you want, but can stop lying at least. Palin sure can't. 8 years of utter failure not enough for you? 8 years of failure not enough for youa and YOUR "retarded cowboy".

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/09/2008 @ 4:13pm

  163. the average person in the 95% group gets a much smaller benefit than the average person in the top 1%.---Posted by brunowe at 09/09/2008 @ 4:07pm

    Darin, takes the GOP talking point and runs with it....and ignores the numerical illogic.

    If you were to conglomerate ALL American taxpayers into 100 people (to get percentiles he notes)...with 95 of them paying a certain percentage in taxes on their aggregate income and 5% paying a certain percentage in taxes on a MUCH, MUCH higher aggregate income...

    and you cut taxes for ALL 100....

    then OBVIOUSLY, the 95 paying get a "higher percent of the tax cut" since they are 95% of the tax PERCENTILE...but the actualy money they'd "get back" from their tax cut would be divided amongst the entire 95 people....thus...much smaller.

    while the 5% would get a MUCH larger amount of money back, by simple virtue of having much larger incomes.

    Not an accurate figure but an example would be-

    95% of people get back $500...

    while 5% of people get back $50,000...

    the PERCENT the 95% pay may seem less, but the net amount in cash of their tax cut is miniscule.

    BTW, it can NEVER be even close to what the top 5% (or 2%) can get since it would mean sending them more money they they earn.

    But this "percentages" game is just that...a game. What counts?....the actual money!

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/09/2008 @ 4:18pm

  164. Don't worry about it Maskdelta, Troll's and apparently people for MCPAIN don't believe in math...or science...or reality.

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/09/2008 @ 4:20pm

  165. Republican campaign's since Karl Rove have just turned politics into a game of who can lie with a smile better. "Identity, not Issues." They love the sport of fighting over BS. It's like they show people some magic trick with their left hand, while their right hand takes your wallet and rips your heart out.

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/09/2008 @ 4:24pm

  166. The best is long bow hunting. Screw compound bows. You need something that requires extreme skill to use. I say you shouldn't be allowed to hunt with anything you can't figure out how to make yourself.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/09/2008 @ 4:06pm

    Hell yeah!

    I miss Fred Bear.

    Posted by Benchrest at 09/09/2008 @ 4:36pm

  167. Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 09/09/2008 @ 4:31pm

    Darin, how much MONEY is involved for someone in the 95%tile versus someone in the 5%tile?

    People don't make or spend "percentages".

    Or is that too obvious for you?

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/09/2008 @ 4:38pm

  168. Today's Anch. Daily News editorial...some of my favorite questions for Palin:

    • In spring of 2004, the Daily News reported that you cited family considerations in deciding not to try for the U.S. Senate: "How could I be the team mom if I was a U.S. senator?" What was different this time as you decided to run for vice president?

    • If you were a fully qualified vice-presidential candidate from the get-go, why did you wait more than 10 days to face reporters?

    • McCain spokesman Rick Davis told Fox News the media didn't show you enough "deference." How much deference do you expect to get from Vladimir Putin or Hugo Chavez?

    http://www.adn.com/opinion/view/story/520272.html

    Send this to Charlie Gibson! ! ! Stat!

    Posted by alaskadiva at 09/09/2008 @ 4:58pm

  169. I hope Charlie Gibson asks...

    "What do you think of how God's plan for Iraq has turned out?"

    "Do you think God...err, I mean Bush should have sent troops into Iraq to begin with? You know...given he had to lie and commit treason to get them there?"

    "Why does McCain apparently not even know what Walter Reed Hospital looks like?"

    Shit I better stop...I might give Joe Lieberman too much of a head start. I bet they bump the interview when she flunks Joe's tests. He must not be such a good teacher...McCain is still getting Iraq wrong, along with the difference between Sunni and Shiite. I guess you have to consider the source...and the CHOICE after all. Huh McCain?

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/09/2008 @ 5:15pm

  170. I know a lot of MCPAIN people ignore the truth. But he did essentially play pin the tail on the donkey when he picked her. Except instead of just the Dems it's EVERYONE who's being stuck in the butt. Haven't we had enough "Brownies" appointed to positions they weren't ready for? How will he pick his Cabinet...darts?

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/09/2008 @ 6:24pm

  171. I just saw this stat: I think 400 people made more than $87 million in 2005. Their tax cut got them a new paint job for the yacht. For the guy making 8700, his tax cut got his ride some new rims.

    They were equally happy.

    Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 09/09/2008 @ 5:44pm | ignore this person

    Cindy McCain wearing a 300,000 dollar outfit once, and the woman deciding she can only feed her kids by not affording insurance for her or her kids. Yeah they are equally happy.

    Posted by CanWeQuestionPalin? at 09/09/2008 @ 6:27pm

  172. Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 09/09/2008 @ 5:44pm

    Darin, again, how does a rich individual "paying the most taxes" get a tax cut and "more of it went to the individual making $35K a year"??!?!??

    Give me EXACT numbers ...not "yacht paint job" and "tire rims".

    What did a person earning a million a year get back under Bush's tax cut...

    and what does a person earning $35,000 a year get back?

    You were good at finding the PERCENTAGES....how about the CASH?

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/09/2008 @ 8:08pm

  173. You see, $16.585 billion dollars is greater than $15.916 billion dollars. That's how I claim that the bottom 95% (or 96 or 97) get a larger tax cut than the top 1% (or 2 or 3).

    I can go over that one more time if you like.

    Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 09/09/2008 @ 3:38pm

    16.585b/95=174m

    15.916/5=3.18b

    Yep. Only 18 times more. Sounds like less to me.

    Posted by Malcontent at 09/09/2008 @ 8:12pm

  174. Posted by Malcontent at 09/09/2008 @ 8:12pm

    Darin buys into the GOP Talking Point on the Bush tax cuts (either from the Admin, Rush, Hannity, Fox, National Review, whatever).

    THEY want us to look at PERCENTAGES...which means taking the 95% and saying "See! See! Their tax cut adds up to WAY more of a tax cut than what the poor, oppressed 5% rich got!" Because they take the TOTAL amount and don't DIVIDE it amongst that 95%.

    YOU did Darin's work for him, Eric.

    Take the total amounts...and divide it into the amount of people...$16.585 Billion amongst 95%...and $15.916 among FIVE percent.

    If the total number of taxpayers was 100...95 people would get 174 million and 5 people would get 3.18 BILLION.

    Apply that to the real taxpayer population....and it's quite obvious that the top 5% (actually 2%) got MORE ACTUAL MONEY than the 95% did...much more.

    But Darin can't talk actual money per individual (either a 95%er or a 5%er)...because that ruins the talking point!

    Posted by Maskdelta at 09/09/2008 @ 9:54pm

  175. oh, mask, please.

    everybody knows that you hate america and that ronald reagan gave his life fighting the revolutionary war to save jesus.

    numbers, shnumbers.

    give me dead bears!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2008 @ 11:09am

  176. if corporates don't own america, why did mccain sell out dbl to foreigners over american jobs, why was halliburton permitted to move HQ to Dubai, why is walmart allowed to have multiple grocery chains in different styles neighborhood market for suburbs, fresh mart or some purple/green combo in inner city a smaller convenience style chain, town boards, mayors roll over and kiss walmart's *(& our govt. turns the other way,

    while whole foods has been tangled in legal mumbo jumbo over acquiring wild oats for year the administrative hearing won't even start until february 2009...

    if you do not think GOP neocon govt is not trying its' best to put small business owners out of business, destroy middle class and is extranational, that is, they are not American as much as they are international, they move around the globe freely while the rest of us suffer with antiquated infrastructure, dilapidated buildings, the ceos, republicans head of state who now all come from oil or wall st. are deserting the US in droves....

    then YOU ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION!!!

    Posted by jrs112 at 09/10/2008 @ 12:45pm

  177. I just want to register my outrage here about Obama calling Ms. Palin a pig. I am shocked, shocked that such mysogyny should rear its ugly head in this day and age. I am a lifelong Democratic voter, but I will vote for McCain this year based on this disgusting personal attack from the Obama campaign.

    Posted by pontificus at 09/10/2008 @ 1:09pm

  178. ponti, ponti, ponti!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2008 @ 1:15pm

  179. Posted by Maskdelta at 09/09/2008 @ 9:54pm

    It's funny how today's Democrats have changed from JFK's time. Then, it was 'Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.' Today, it's 'how much of that money that I never earned are those rich folks keeping from me? They OWE ME, dammit!'

    Posted by pontificus at 09/10/2008 @ 1:23pm

  180. Gaff-o-matic, baby. Wait til they get Obama away from the teleprompter again. Today he's calling Palin a pig, yesterday he's visiting 'all 57' states, tomorrow...what?

    Posted by pontificus at 09/10/2008 @ 1:33pm

  181. Posted by pontificus at 09/10/2008 @ 1:33pm

    ponti, ponti, ponti!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 09/10/2008 @ 1:50pm

  182. 'Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.'

    Posted by pontificus at 09/10/2008 @ 1:23pm

    Anything your country needs huh?

    As long as it isn't your time or money, right?

    Posted by Malcontent at 09/10/2008 @ 6:14pm

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