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RedditST. PAUL -- "We are the troops!" chanted the Iraq War veterans.
"How do you support us? their comrades responded.
"Bring us home!" came the response.
So began Monday's massive anti-war demonstration, led by members of Iraq Veterans Against the War and Veterans for Peace that brought tens of thousands of demonstrator from Minnesota's state capitol to the Xcel Energy Center where Republicans will nominate pro-war Senator John McCain for president.
Edwin Pagan, 25, a U.S. Army sergeant who served in Iraq and now lives in Las Vegas, and a buddy from Seattle carried a U.S. flag upside down as a signal of distress.
"We are in distress," he said, "Brothers, sisters are dying in a war that we should not be fighting. We needed to be here to tell John McCain, as veterans of this war, that it must end."
The first day of the Republican National Convention had been constrained of concern about partying as Hurricane Gustav struck the Gulf Coast.
But the Iraq and Afghanistan veterans -- who began the day by delivering a folded flag and a briefing on veterans issues to the gates of the convention center complex -- and their anti-war supporters said they had come to make it clear, despite what might eventually be said from the podium inside the Xcel Center, that the only way to support the troops is to end the war.
"The Republicans who go on and on about maintaining this war don't care. We care," said retired U.S. Army Col. Ann Wright, who resigned as a State Department official in March, 2003, to protest the invasion of Iraq. "That's why we're here on the streets. It's for our conscience and our principles. We could not allow John McCain to be nominated and to have all this talk about how he is a veteran and how he supports the war go unchallenged. It was necessary that we be here to say: No, this war is wrong. It is wrong for the U.S. troops. It is wrong for their families. It is wrong for America. It is wrong for Iraq and the Iraqis. It is just wrong. John McCain is just wrong."
Marching with the troops "were" veterans of another kind -- hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Minnesotans who pulled out t-shirts and signs with the name of the late Paul Wellstone. Police, who reported making 284 arrests after clashes in other parts of downtown St. Paul, estimated that roughly 10,000 people participated in the peaceful march from the state capital to the convention center.
Organizers put the number of marchers much higher.
Throughout the crowd, which took hours to move through the streets of St. Paul, were men and women carrying green "Wellstone" signs and wearing "Camp Wellstone" shirts.
Wellstone, the Minnesota senator who votes againt authorizing the Bush administration to attack Iraq just weeks before he died in an October, 2002, plane crash, was remembered as an American patriot who had the courage to stand against the rush to war by the Bush administration and congressional allies such as John McCain.
"If Paul Wellstone had lived, we might not have to be marching today," said Mary Vanderford, a naturalist from the Twin Cities. "He would have emerged as the leader of the fight to prevent the war, and if it had started I think he would have gotten the Democrats to oppose it sooner and more firmly."
Carol Becker, a Minneapolis Board of Estimate member, was equally firm.
"We're marching to oppose the war," she said. "But we are also marching in memory of our senator, who had the courage and the wisdom to oppose the war when others -- including John McCain -- did not."
As she spoke, a groups of students began chanting, "McCain says: 'a hundred years.' We say: 'No more!'"
The chant turned to a roar that echoed through the streets of St. Paul, where there were few Republicans to be found outside a slimmed-down convention.
There was little question, on a day when those with anti-war signs easily outnumbered those wearing McCain pins on the streets of St. Paul, that the next chant of the demonstrators was right: "Get up! Get down! There's an anti-war movement in this town."
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John Nichols
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What they should know is, McCain has pandered to every group he needs to to get the nomination...
therefore it's likely he'll pander to the general electorate (who 70% disapprove of the war) to get the Presidency.
I expect AFTER he throws red meat in St. Paul this week...
he "suddenly" discovers the virtue of an "Obama plan"!
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/01/2008 @ 1:46pm
kool...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/01/2008 @ 1:55pm
Wish I could be there,but my protesting days ended with the last club upside my head back in '71.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/01/2008 @ 2:00pm
Thankfully, most of us Vets do support McCain,
Posted by lvliberty1 at 09/01/2008
perhaps,
but active servicemembers seem not to:
According to an analysis of campaign contributions by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, Democrat Barack Obama has received nearly six times as much money from troops deployed overseas at the time of their contributions than has Republican John McCain, and the fiercely anti-war Ron Paul, though he suspended his campaign for the Republican nomination months ago, has received more than four times McCain's haul.
Despite McCain's status as a decorated veteran and a historically Republican bent among the military, members of the armed services overall -- whether stationed overseas or at home -- are also favoring Obama with their campaign contributions in 2008, by a $55,000 margin. Although 59 percent of federal contributions by military personnel has gone to Republicans this cycle, of money from the military to the presumed presidential nominees, 57 percent has gone to Obama.
<<<<<>>>>>
Obama outpaces McCain in donations from military personnel.»
Largely as a result of "dissatisfaction with the course of the war under President Bush and with the treatment of veterans returning home," Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) is collecting more in military contributions than is Sen. John McCain (R-AZ). The AP reports, "Among people who have donated at least $200 to a presidential campaign this election cycle, Obama has collected more than $327,000 from those identifying themselves as military personnel, while McCain has collected $224,000."
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 2:35pm
I notice Nichols also fails to mention the rioting of the anarchists who joined with these protesters. No mention Nichols of how they are breaking windows and setting fires in the city. Don't want to add that piece of info Mr. Nichols? Perhaps because it doesn't fit in with your story.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 09/01/2008 @ 2:25pm
perhaps it's because they have nothing to do with what he wrote about.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 2:37pm
Maybe if the police get the chance to knock some heads, they could start with Ann Wright.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 09/01/2008 @ 2:34pm
you've just made jesus vomit.
i think it's about time to schedule your exorcism.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 2:51pm
a 100% nutjob
Projected by lvliberty1 at 09/01/2008 @ 2:34pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 2:53pm
yeah, this is another black eye for democrats. The Iraq war is off the front pages because it's going much better. The protesters are a year or two too late.
Posted by frankgrits at 09/01/2008 @ 2:49pm
mask,
frank's baiting you.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 2:54pm
whatever.
mccain will have a worser impact on my life than obama will, so that's what concerns me.
he'll be worse for the economy and worse for my planet.
he'll be worse for peace and worse for progress.
worse.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 3:11pm
Since that report, Obama has only gained an additional $8000 in contributions while McCain has gained an additional $53,000. That says that active personnel are putting their money now on McCain.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 09/01/2008 @ 3:06pm
Cite a source otherwise you are just making more crap up.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/01/2008 @ 3:25pm
Obama gets his numbers mainly from Army personnel who normally comprise less devoted to military service.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 09/01/2008 @ 3:06pm
Does this mean they are less of patriots? Less of Americans? That their opinions matter less? Does their service to this country not matter as much? You always complain about the left insulting our troops then you make statements like that one.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/01/2008 @ 3:28pm
Hmm. The article I saw was penned 15 days ago holding Obama to be the most. So things must have changed a lot in 15 days or you are just making things up.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/01/2008 @ 3:30pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 09/01/2008 @ 3:30pm
I was just reading that article.
I don't know where you got your numbers from because McCain still isn't leading in contributions. If you look at the table at the end it shows who has the most and Obama is still up. McCain thankfully overtook Paul. Kind of embarrassing to be losing to and anti-war candidate who is no longer in the race.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/01/2008 @ 3:36pm
Posted by frankgrits at 09/01/2008 @ 3:33pm
I like how Frank pretends to ignore people. He said he has me on ignore but he has responded to my posts since. Hilarious.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/01/2008 @ 3:37pm
Never challange Liberety to cite his source. He'll make you look like a fool, which isn't hard anyway. Posted by frankgrits at 09/01/2008 @ 3:36pm
Frank your an idiot. Keep your worthless opinions to yourself. I ask him to cite because like YOU I get sick of people making crap up. You do it all the time so I have to make sure that people on here actually bother showing the things needed when they cite numbers. Was your son in the Marines?
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/01/2008 @ 3:47pm
I just ignored you period because you dissed McCin's heroism while you yourself are a cowar
Posted by frankgrits at 09/01/2008 @ 3:40pm
Hahahahahahahahahahaah. You didn't serve Frank. Who the hell are you to insult anyone? Your a 60 year old child. You antic with the ignore list prove it. I'm glad to be on your ignore list. It allows me to dispute your asinine BS without having to here some inane, childish, misguided, hypocritical amateur BS about how you "know" more than everyone else.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/01/2008 @ 3:49pm
No, it just means that there are way more blacks in the army than in the marines. They support obama as you know. Posted by frankgrits at 09/01/2008 @ 3:37pm
See how Frank has to buffer everything with some stat without providing sources? He has to boil everything down to race to make himself feel better because his queen lost to the Magic Negro (to borrow a term from Happy). Everytime I see Frankgrits post it makes me Happy he to be voting for who I am voting for. I didn't start out a supporter of Obama in this primary season but I can tell every time I talk on here it galvanizes my support even more because I know who I am NOT throwing my lot in with so I know I MUST be making a semi-intelligent decision. It worries me anytime I'm in agreeance with Frank.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/01/2008 @ 3:53pm
I didn't say he had the overall lead. Read what I said. Since the time of the AP article, the facts show McCain has outraised Obama among active duty personnel, by greater than a 6:1 margin. That is inline with what I see talking to Marines. Posted by lvliberty1 at 09/01/2008 @ 3:52pm
Yea but you missed an intricate part of the article LVL.
""If, on a bad day, a guy gets that letter that says [his tour has been extended] from 12 to 15 months, that could spur a quick donation and expression of anger," he said. "Donating helps members of the military express their political views privately.""
Basically saying that month to month that number is going to change drastically.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/01/2008 @ 3:55pm
Hazards of the occupation. Posted by frankgrits at 09/01/2008 @ 3:52pm
Occupation. Must have very little of worth in your life if you are calling this an occupation.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/01/2008 @ 3:56pm
lvliberty1 writes Fortunately, these protesters don't represent most veterans. No, They just represent the views of most US and Iraqi citizens. We yje US citizens arebeing welched out of $$$$$ of this boondockle . I wished our troops would head home, over 4k of them dies for Exxon, BP, Chevron and Suncor.
Posted by insanelayne at 09/01/2008 @ 3:59pm
Never challange Liberety to cite his source. He'll make you look like a fool, which isn't hard anyway.
Projected by frankspells at 09/01/2008 @ 3:36pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 4:01pm
Posted by frankgrits at 09/01/2008 @ 3:40pm
even if john mccain were a hero,
that would qualify him for nothing.
LASSIE '08
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 4:05pm
I've got so many nutjobs on ignore now that there's no-one left to give me a decent argument.
Posted by frankgrits at 09/01/2008 @ 3:52pm
so,
only nutjobs can give you a decent argument?
frank,
for someone who is so all knowing,
your syntax is somewhat murky.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 4:07pm
They are the usual miscreants and malcontents that comprise the 1% of screwups that the military gets.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 09/01/2008 @ 4:04pm
"The Army is lowering recruitment standards to levels not seen in at least two decades, and the implications are severe--not only for the future of the Army, but also for the direction of U.S. foreign policy.
The latest statistics--compiled by the Defense Department. and obtained through the Freedom of Information Act by the Boston-based National Priorities Project--are grim. They show that the percentage of new Army recruits with high-school diplomas has plunged from 94 percent in 2003 to 83.5 percent in 2005 to 70.7 percent in 2007. (The Pentagon's longstanding goal is 90 percent.)"
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 4:09pm
"Eighty to a hundred anarchists have been arrested," said "Frankgrits."
I believe the correct term is now "enemy combatant."
Posted by JakobFabian at 09/01/2008 @ 4:09pm
LVLIB...asked MAASCH, ask you too.
You DO know that if McCain is elected, FRANKGRITS will almost immediately (within 6 monts) TURN on McCain and Republicans again...
to lay the groundwork for "Hillary in '12".
Right? You DO know that?
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/01/2008 @ 4:17pm
FROSTY, just biding my time with FG and his "punishment" of putting me on Ignore...
when I'm "out" only ask him one, straight-forward question (you can try if you like)...
If Sarah Palin becomes Veep, and McCain declines a 2nd term in 2012, and Palin becomes the GOP nominee...
who's more qualified, her or Hillary?
He CANNOT answer that honestly...
say "Hillary" and he undercuts both his support of Palin now ...as well as LOGIC.
say "Palin" and...well...he blasphemes the Dark Goddess!
He's trapped.
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/01/2008 @ 4:19pm
He's trapped.
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/01/2008 @ 4:19pm
He's checkmated.
But he doesn't seem to know that.
Reminds me of Harold Ickes.
Posted by Benchrest at 09/01/2008 @ 4:22pm
LASSIE '08
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 4:05pm
FLIPPER says I!
Posted by Benchrest at 09/01/2008 @ 4:25pm
Hey LVL or Happy what day does McCain speak? I figure it will be worth tuning into just him. I can't stand the rest of the convention stuff, Demo or Repub. I usually get the clifnotes on the speeches.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/01/2008 @ 4:31pm
Posted by frankgrits at 09/01/2008 @ 3:56pm
I would bet money Frank never served. The fact that he never talks about it is proof enough. As much as he touts his sons service as some mark of "extra knowledge" he would tout his because he is that kind of person. He loves to appear superior. Frank has never seen service. He might be a postal work and considers that dangerous service.
Do you know you when you are a walking, talking, typing joke or are you unaware?
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/01/2008 @ 4:34pm
The percentage of what the Army calls "high-quality" recruits--those who have high-school diplomas and who score in the upper 50th percentile on the Armed Forces' aptitude tests--has declined from 56.2 percent in 2005 to 44.6 percent in 2007.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 4:34pm
Daily Kos has some nice stuff about Palin.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/01/2008 @ 4:39pm
Do you know you when you are a walking, talking, typing joke or are you unaware?
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/01/2008 @ 4:34pm
You're on ignore. Welcome to the club.
It's actually quite nice.
And yes, Frank has been PROVEN to tell the occasional fib so long as it benefits whatever point he is trying to make at the time.
Posted by Benchrest at 09/01/2008 @ 4:39pm
Hey Mask,
My response to just about every Frank post from now on will be some good quotation from that Britsh pedophile (and children's novelist, noting no ironies here) Dr. Charles Dodgson. It seems like the further he slips down the more appropriate it gets. This of course means I'm gonna have to get on Amazon and invest in his novels.
Posted by yutsano at 09/01/2008 @ 4:39pm
Ask Phil Tourney, survior of the USS Liberty attack what he thinks of the McStain family:
http://ussliberty.wordpress.com/2008/04/12/25/
Posted by crincolip at 09/01/2008 @ 4:47pm
Posted by Benchrest at 09/01/2008 @ 4:22pm
Posted by yutsano at 09/01/2008 @ 4:39pm
Given he's a Republican now (maybe always was)...how about-
"He thought he saw an Elephant, That practised on a fife: He looked again, and found it was A letter from his wife. 'At length I realise,' he said, 'The bitterness of Life!'"
Chapter 5 : A Beggar's Palace
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/01/2008 @ 4:53pm
Posted by frankgrits at 09/01/2008 @ 6:10pm
If FRANK had served in combat...
he'd have thrown that in our faces EVERY time the Right criticized his opposition to the war (Pre-Hillary defeat)...
and every time the Left criticized his SUPPORT for the war (Post-Hillary defeat)!
And claim "If you'd served as I DID, you'd understand why I'm right!" (then dismissed anti-war combat vets as "a few cultists for Obama!"...after calling them heroes before January 2008!)
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/01/2008 @ 6:13pm
for what it's worth:
http://www.charlierose.com/guests/sarah-palin
10/12/2007
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 6:13pm
FrankNoGrits-You dissed McCain's heroism and referred to both McCain and Palin as fascists on many occasions.Putting people on ignore because we know how full of it you are is quite childish and consistent with your tantrum.You said many things on here about your personal life,but your veteran status.
Posted by i'm nobody at 09/01/2008 @ 6:17pm
John McCain has a history of reckless behavior and wrecked 3 jets at a cost of over 5 million dollars before he even got to Vietnam. He supported the war in Iraq and thinks it was justified and at the same time voted against almost every bill that would help veternas returning from the war. If you really love liberty you will vote for Barack Obama and not support John McCain who will just continue the same flawed foreign policy of George Bush.
Posted by Macattack at 09/01/2008 @ 6:20pm
"... This from a coward who chose not to serve. I don't know about you but this is particularly offensive to me... It don't mean nuthin'."
Posted by frankgrits at 09/01/2008 @ 3:56pm
This from a coward who chose not to serve.
Posted by Malcontent at 09/01/2008 @ 6:45pm
The protesters are a year or two too late.
Posted by frankgrits at 09/01/2008 @ 2:49pm
Your son been home that long already?
Well, that's nice.
Posted by Malcontent at 09/01/2008 @ 6:46pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/01/2008 @ 1:46pm
"he "suddenly" discovers the virtue of an "Obama plan"!"
You're STILL peddling that old chestnut, MASK? If you recall, the 'Obama Plan' was retreat and defeat, cut and run, against the surge...let the terrorists win. And now that we've ignored his advice, and instead, won the war....you want to take credit for THAT too?
Guzzle some more kool-aid, my friend!
Posted by pontificus at 09/01/2008 @ 7:21pm
Hey MASK, you must be taking lessons from those union guys on here who say that by taking away the worker's right to a secret ballot - they're helping free choice! Must me something in the kool-aid they feed you folks!
Posted by pontificus at 09/01/2008 @ 7:25pm
won the war....you want to take credit for THAT too?
Guzzle some more kool-aid, my friend!
Posted by pontificus at 09/01/2008 @ 7:21pm | ignore this person | warn this person
WON the war? Oh, so all those pesky political problems have been resolved? Kirkuk is no longer an issue? Maliki's moving against those Sunni tribes that had been on our side won't complicate things at all?
Posted by brunowe at 09/01/2008 @ 7:47pm
They don't even number 1% of veterans. They are the usual miscreants and malcontents that comprise the 1% of screwups that the military gets.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 09/01/2008 @ 4:04pm | ignore this person | warn this person
This is based on...?
Posted by brunowe at 09/01/2008 @ 7:51pm
BOO!
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/01/2008 @ 8:29pm
Why didn't these people travel to Denver? Obama has back peddled on his immediate troop withdrawl statement, or haven't they heard.
Their cause would seem more legimate (as it should) if they would hold EVERYbody's feet to the fire.
Posted by bleedingheart at 09/01/2008 @ 9:11pm
back peddled = backpedaled
Posted by bleedingheart at 09/01/2008 @ 9:13pm
Older than you? Uh, no. No draft. I choose not to talk about my personal life on the web, at least not in detail. I will tell you this, I never served in combat. I have a 24 year old son who did. You do the math. Posted by frankgrits at 09/01/2008 @ 6:10pm
HAHAHAHAHAHA. See what did I tell you. I knew Happy that he didn't serve. Why? He is an egotist. He would have thrown that in your and our faces repeatedly. He is a coward also apparently because he said I was a coward for not serving. Look at how much of an amazing hypocrite he is. Jesus it's amazing. I told you I could read people well Happy.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/02/2008 @ 01:17am
Older than you? Uh, no. No draft. I choose not to talk about my personal life on the web, at least not in detail. I will tell you this, I never served in combat. I have a 24 year old son who did. You do the math. Posted by frankgrits at 09/01/2008 @ 6:10pm
I been saying it all along. He lives vicariously through his son and thinks that makes him a hero or something. He will call everyone else a coward who doesn't serve but then he expects that we are supposed to ignore the fact that he never served. What a joke....
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/02/2008 @ 01:19am
"To call Iraq a "war" today is not exactly descriptive but not exactly inaccurate either. As long as the US is there in numbers, with real firepower....the war is for all practical purposes, won. Poltically, Iraq needs the next National Elections to take place and some players changed to move into the next higher level of the democracy curve."
As long as the US needs to be there in numbers for the war to be "won" in your eyes means that it isn't. Second, those election aren't, apparently, going to take place anytime soon.
Posted by brunowe at 09/02/2008 @ 02:32am
How many believed the Obama hype about ending the war? Do you believe it now? If so, why?
Posted by jsens at 09/02/2008 @ 08:04am
most veterans DO NOT support mcbush....groups such as veterans for peace are numerous and growing; of course, most polls are biased; just recently, dome ex white house staff admitted most news to msm was "vetted" by white house...
last year, a couple outspoken troops came forward to tell the truth, the day they returned to Iraq, their 20 ton military vehicle mysteriously overturned and they died....no reason, no explanation, I am sure their parents would like to know.....the news said there was no evidence of insurgents behind it......it gets swept under the rug......all of these "untold" stories are very evil....there are no answers from mcbush, only more war!!!!!!!!!!!!
if you take a poll of troops active or otherwise, the numbers of those saying this war is wrong is about 90%....nobody dare say anything else while dubya is commander in chief....or they might end up in gitmo for some other unexplained reason...or have an accident...
speaking of accidents, there are more and more "non combatant casulaties" in afghanistan...today, US bombed some houses and five children died...were they al qaeda in training??? we just say it was an "accident"....
missiled from planes don't fire themselves accidentally....it is cowardly, like bill maher said before he got fired for being "politically incorrect" which was the name of his show, coincidentally.....
Posted by jrs112 at 09/02/2008 @ 09:46am
Posted by lvliberty1 at 09/01/2008 @ 2:25pm
Do us a favor - no, the courtesy - LVL of not pretending that you or the small number of Marines in your circle in any way, shape or form represent the opinions of people in uniform, past or present.
Posted by srjenkins at 09/02/2008 @ 11:01am
Do us a favor - no, the courtesy - LVL of not pretending that you or the small number of Marines in your circle in any way, shape or form represent the opinions of people in uniform, past or present. Posted by srjenkins at 09/02/2008 @ 11:01am
Oh no. LVL like Frankgrits is absolutely sure that his opinions are reflected by the majority of people in this country.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/02/2008 @ 11:33am
To lvliberty01 and others who think like that. The facts are that the vast majority of Iraq Vets are against the war so if oyur going to spout statistics get them right you Neo-Con butt swab
Posted by mbuck at 09/02/2008 @ 11:46am
You McCain lovers are obviously not political and have no idea what is really going on...Palin was "vetted" by Dobson, Perkins, Robertson and the right-wing religious nuts..McCain gets their "deep pockets" for his campaing in return....(& for the 527 smear machines)McCain has sold his soul and pandered to the far-right religious nuts..the Christian religious zealots who are just as crazy as the Taliban religious crazies...they would throw the laws and the Constitution out the window, and replace Science with the Bible...do you want to go back to the year "0" with those Doctors, housing, dress and prayers..? Go back to the superstitions of the middle ages? You are dangerous because you do not educate your self and you do not think..you are ignorant and you choose ignorance over information....you are pathetic losers who no one would ever listen to..so you write assinine "posts" to make your self seem important in your eyes....go away..slink back under your rock...
Posted by Chabuka at 09/02/2008 @ 11:51am
Well said chabuka. The treason continues in the republican party and I am amazed that so many people are blind to the obvious truth. This country is in the worse shape it has been since I have been alive (born 1949). I am a Decorated Viet Nam Vet and I am disgusted by this Neo-Con walking trash. It is all about theri pocket book and their religion. Over the enxt horizon will be the Puritan Dilemma filled with Withc Burnings and stonings. Hmmm sounds familiar. Bring the boys home. Put the Military Indsutrial Complex out of business.
Posted by mbuck at 09/02/2008 @ 12:00pm
It was only a matter of time until he reached THIS point in his madness...
"I think Al Qaeda can't wait for Obama to be elected."----Posted by frankgrits at 09/01/2008 @ 8:16pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/02/2008 @ 12:08pm
It was only a matter of time until he reached THIS point in his madness...
"I think Al Qaeda can't wait for Obama to be elected."----Posted by frankgrits at 09/01/2008 @ 8:16pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 09/02/2008 @ 12:08pm
And it is a stupid point, relative to Obama's statements on Afghanistan/Pakistan.
Posted by Benchrest at 09/02/2008 @ 12:38pm
They should be arrested and processed...maybe this is how they can get some free room and board? Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/02/2008 @ 11:31am
Yay for free speech!
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/02/2008 @ 1:12pm
I see evidence of the military-industrial-complex in the comments section of this article.
I can't help but wonder how many of those particular type of commenters are either making money through stock dividends on this war, or making money through a paycheck that comes from a defense contractor.
I also can't help but wonder if they have any clue that all of this money is borrowed.
Posted by politicky at 09/02/2008 @ 2:47pm
Christ! I've got so many nutjobs on ignore now that there's no-one left to give me a decent argument. Hazards of the occupation.
Posted by frankgrits at 09/01/2008 @ 3:52pm | ignore this person | warn this person
.
Jeez Frank, do you even have a clue how moronic that makes you sound?
Posted by Lillian at 09/02/2008 @ 5:32pm
http://www.tampabay.com/news/military/veterans/article497828.ece
VA's voter registration ban raises questions By William R. Levesque, Times Staff Writer In print: Saturday, May 10, 2008
In early 2004, a prominent California Democrat walked onto Department of Veterans Affairs property to register veterans to vote.
The VA kicked him out, saying it barred "partisan" political activity. Months later, people working for Republicans walked onto the same campus and successfully registered 42 voters.
Posted by Lillian at 09/02/2008 @ 5:50pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 09/02/2008 @ 1:29pm
My point is not that the military doesn't tend to vote Republican. The military is a conservative institution, and this is congruent with my experience. Gallop also supports you:
"...veterans tend to be Republican in their political orientation, and Republican candidates generally fare better than Democratic candidates among this voting group."
http://www.gallup.com/poll/109654/ Veterans-Solidly-Back-McCain.aspx?version=print
Yet, my point is that your logic is sloppy. First, you and the people you interact with are not representative of the military as a whole, past or present. It's anecdotal evidence.
Second, the fact that veterans tend to favor the Republican party is a different matter than saying veterans support the Iraq war. Given the fact that 2/3 of the population is against the war and even in schewed sources like the Miltary Times, you get - at most - 46.1% that respond "Yes" to the question: "Should the U.S. have gone to war in Iraq?"
This suggests to me that your leap of logic isn't backed up by the facts. And you should be more careful about your broad, sweeping - and baseless - assertions.
http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm http://www.militarycity.com/polls/ 2007activepoll_iraq.php
Posted by srjenkins at 09/02/2008 @ 7:00pm
Never challange Liberety to cite his source. He'll make you look like a fool, which isn't hard anyway.
Posted by frankgrits at 09/01/2008 @ 3:36pm | ignore this person | warn this person
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I ALWAYS challenge sources presented by Lying Larry...as should everyone who is concerned in any way with accuracy and truth...or who just wants a little entertainment value from vetting the blatherings he posts.
And his latest posts here...illustrate EXACTLY why this is sound advice.
See Frank...when Larry posted this...
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First of all, CRP is not a nonpartisan group. They are aggressively leftist.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 09/01/2008 @ 3:06pm | ignore this person | warn this person
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...he made it sound like 'you just can't trust the Center for Responsive Politics - because THEY are all "aggressive leftists" who apparently would lie as soon as open their mouths.'
However, later, in this post (trying to chastise Cccomf01)...
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Posted by lvliberty1 at 09/01/2008 @ 3:30pm | ignore this person | warn this person
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...he boasted how he double-checked all those figures at "...the best source on campaign money, Open Secrets, the site used by Dems, Repubs, the media, and everyone else..." where he discovered more, less-partisan information, in more "...detail than the PR release from CRP." He even provided the link...in tinyurl form of course.
(Here Frank, let me provide the URL for you in real text so you can check it for yourself, if you like...but you'll need to cut and paste the 2 parts together.)
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/08/
troops-deployed-abroad-give-61.html
Now, notice the wording under the logo 'OpenSecrets.org'.
Yep...OpenSecrets actually ***IS*** the Center for Responsive Politics.
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Posted by Lillian at 09/02/2008 @ 7:45pm
Larry once posted a dozen links to what he called 'scientific articles' refuting the notion that man-made activity contributed to global warming. For grins, I checked each of them.
It turned out, 9 were from Faux News, oil industry sites, or propaganda sites blatantly funded by big oil. Of the remaining 3 that were in any way 'scientific', 2 tried to downplay the notion of global warming altogether - but reluctantly admitted that man-made causes DID contribute to the 'small' global warming to which they freely cited. The remaining link was to a scientific study that was thoroughly trashed under peer review.
Posted by Lillian at 09/02/2008 @ 7:52pm
Posted by Lillian at 09/02/2008 @ 7:52pm
So, Lillian...would it be fair to say that just about anything that conflicts with your established opinions is patently fraudulent?
Posted by pontificus at 09/02/2008 @ 9:35pm
"and protesters are showing up with the desire and the expecrtation of being arrested...They should be arrested and processed...maybe this is how they can get some free room and board?"
Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/02/2008 @ 11:31am
I give up.
Are you retarded or insane?
Posted by Malcontent at 09/02/2008 @ 10:27pm
I wonder what the people who come to conventions to protest,as is their right, do for a real iving mthat they can afford to missed work?
Posted by JOMAMMA at 09/02/2008 @ 11:31am
JM,
better check that cliché generator....
seems to be having spelling and syntax problems.....
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/02/2008 @ 10:45pm
You never appreciated what an honor it was to serve and fight for our country.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 09/02/2008 @ 1:36pm
in veitnam?
hahahaha!
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/02/2008 @ 10:50pm
I also can't help but wonder if they have any clue that all of this money is borrowed.
Posted by politicky at 09/02/2008 @ 2:47pm
half of u.s. government debt is owned by
drum roll,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
THE U.S. GOVERNMENT!
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/02/2008 @ 10:52pm
Yep...OpenSecrets actually ***IS*** the Center for Responsive Politics. . Posted by Lillian at 09/02/2008 @ 7:45pm
lillian,
YOU are a true american hero!
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/02/2008 @ 10:55pm