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RedditThe Democratic Party will get serious about the platform-writing the process, as hearings of the 2008 convention's platform committee kick off in Cleveland.
But not too serious.
As has been the case since the 1980s, the real writing of the platform will be done by the campaign of the presumptive nominee.
That means that, while the deliberations in Cleveland this week and Pittsburgh next week will hear some alternative voices and perhaps feature a few debates, the final document is likely to read more like a press release from the Obama campaign than a bold statement of principle.
Indeed, an Obama aide, Karen Kornbluh, has been designated by the Democratic National Committee as the "Principal Author" of the document. Kornbluh is on leave from Obama's Senate office, where she serves as policy director.
That said, the 186 members of the platform committee -- a group that includes former backers of the Hillary Clinton and John Edwards campaigns -- have some authority to assure that the party stands strong on the issue of health care reform.
During the primary campaign, Obama and challenger Hillary Clinton divided over the question of whether reforms to a broken system should be universal in nature.
Though Clinton was not a supporter of single-payer, and though the reform plan she offered last summer was disappointing on many fronts, the senator from New York was a more consistent advocate for mandating across-the-board coverage than Obama.
The Illinoisan's steadfast refusal to embrace the specific rules and regulations – including some mandates -- that are required to achieve universal coverage represented an unsettling break with commitments made by progressive Democrats since the days of Franklin Roosevelt. New York Times columnist Paul Krugman went so far as to suggest after a primary-season review of the Clinton and Obama plans that, "If Mrs. Clinton gets the Democratic nomination, there is some chance -- nobody knows how big -- that we'll get universal health care in the next administration. If Mr. Obama gets the nomination, it just won't happen."
It is unlikely that members of the platform committee will be able to forge a document that gets Obama all the way to where he needs to be on health care.
But that does not mean that advocates for real reform -- of which there are many on the drafting committee -- should abandon efforts to put the party on the right side of this important component of the health care debate.
They can do so by embracing a proposal by Progressive Democrats of America to outline a guarantee of health care for all in the party's statement of goals and principles.
PDA says that:
For the Platform to be adopted at the 2008 Democratic National Convention, we support a plank calling for our nation to enact universal health care that will:
* Guarantee accessible health care for all.
* Create a single standard of high quality, comprehensive, and preventive health care for all.
* Allow freedom of choice of physician, hospital, and other health care providers.
* Eliminate financial barriers that prevent families and individuals from obtaining the medically necessary care they need.
* Allow physicians, nurses and other licenced health care providers to make health care decisions based on what is best for the health of the patient.
That is an outline for health care reform that really would represent "change we can believe in."
Obama's aides may preach caution, and that caution is likely to be reflected in any final platform document that is adopted by the convention later this month.
But platform committee members will do Obama and his campaign a favor if they determine that, when it comes to this life-and-death issue, caution and compromise are no match for the pledge Harry Truman made more than 60 years ago: "Our new Economic Bill of Rights should mean health security for all, regardless of residence, station, or race -- everywhere in the United States," the 33rd president told Congress. "We should resolve now that the health of this Nation is a national concern; that financial barriers in the way of attaining health shall be removed; that the health of all its citizens deserves the help of all the Nation."
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John Nichols
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Now here's an illusion factory for you, the platform apparatus of a major American political party. Is there anything these reptiles wouldn't say so as to keep their ill gotten sinecures.
When the maturation of the current financial, de-industrialization and dollar crises pulls the columns down on the heads of the snakes that write these platforms it will become all too apparent that its a "them vs. us" problem were facing, not a "one of them vs. us" problem. Progressives should vote Nader.
Posted by john lowell at 08/01/2008 @ 11:58am
Obama wins big?...40 states, 100+ electorals, 10% over McCain....he can push universal health care.
Tight or a squeaker? He will nibble at the edges.
End of story.
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/01/2008 @ 12:08pm
Platforms are rather meaningless, and are usually a means of uniting disparate factions of the party.
Nominees have routinely done their own thing once in office, so I wouldn't pay much attention to the platform at all.
Posted by Metteyya at 08/01/2008 @ 12:22pm
And with this article on another thread, how can we afford...anything?
Unless we tax the shit out of...
Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/01/2008 @ 11:55am
actually, given $10,000,000,000,000 in pre fredfan debt,
combined with a $500,000,000,000 budget deficit,
taxing the shit out of won't work, either.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/01/2008 @ 1:02pm
Progressives should vote Nader.
Posted by john lowell at 08/01/2008 @ 11:58am
no, progressives need to find a good actor.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/01/2008 @ 1:03pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/01/2008 @ 1:03pm
"no, progressives need to find a good actor".
And the meaning of "actor" in this context, pray tell? Some elaboration, kindly.
Posted by john lowell at 08/01/2008 @ 1:13pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/01/2008 @ 2:40pm
There are quite enough actors, frosty. We need authenticity.
Posted by john lowell at 08/01/2008 @ 3:58pm
How about an actor who nobody knows where he is, until 8 months before each Presidential election?
And then his show gets cancelled, until another 40 months have passed, when it gets another "Broadway revival"?
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/01/2008 @ 4:03pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/01/2008 @ 12:08pm
Ironic that you should write this the day McCain pulls even with Obama in the polls.
Posted by pontificus at 08/01/2008 @ 4:10pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/01/2008 @ 12:08pm
Ironic that you should write this the day McCain pulls even with Obama in the polls.
Posted by pontificus at 08/01/2008 @ 4:10pm
Universal health care? Like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz, the Democrats would have us believe that all we need do is tap our ruby slippers together, and it'll be true. Who's going to pay for it? Why, other people! Vote for us!
Democrats are the only major political party founded on fairy tales.
Posted by pontificus at 08/01/2008 @ 4:12pm
Posted by john lowell at 08/01/2008 @ 3:58pm
"We need authenticity."
I think what we need even more is competence. Some people are just authentically nutty. Nader is one of them.
Posted by pontificus at 08/01/2008 @ 4:15pm
Posted by pontificus at 08/01/2008 @ 4:15pm
With the kind of competence Obama or McCain are likely to offer, you have my consent to lead me back to the original quest for authenticity, thank you. Nice play on words, but "nutty" is a empty blandishment anymore given its horrendous overuse on blogs of this kind. And, please, don't try to embellish it with the hacknied, "wingnut", either. I'd be apt to punch the next schmegeggie that uses that bromide. Nader's a good bet to cause the system some real headaches as is Barr. Lets hope they do. Nader's polling at 6%, Barr 3% according to last report. And, as you point out above, the Bobsy Twins are tied in the latest Gallup Poll. At this point, I'd take just about anything if it could bring an end to the vacuity imposed on American life by this awful two-headed reptile. Oy!
Posted by john lowell at 08/01/2008 @ 5:02pm
There are quite enough actors, frosty. We need authenticity.
Posted by john lowell at 08/01/2008 @ 3:58pm
damn right!
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/02/2008 @ 01:35am
How about an actor who nobody knows where he is, until 8 months before each Presidential election?
And then his show gets cancelled, until another 40 months have passed, when it gets another "Broadway revival"?
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/01/2008 @ 4:03pm
exactly.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/02/2008 @ 01:36am
sorry, mr. nader.
you've done great work.
and your ideas ARE ideas!
but something's missing.
go back to working from the side of the coin you know best.
thank you for your service,
fz.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/02/2008 @ 01:37am
Democrats are the only major political party founded on fairy tales.
Posted by pontificus at 08/01/2008 @ 4:12pm
once upon a time,
there were some aluminum tubes.....
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/02/2008 @ 01:38am
I think what we need even more is competence.
•••• hear! hear!
Some people are just authentically nutty. Nader is one of them.
•••• i think some of the safety your family currently enjoys whilst riding about in your pollution machine can be attributed to mr. nader's persistence. you should thank him.
Posted by pontificus at 08/01/2008 @ 4:15pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/02/2008 @ 01:40am
More offshore drilling
Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/02/2008 @ 12:40am
no. no. no.
save the oil for 23rd century plastics.
oil is just funky old solar energy.
the sun is hot. we must look to the sun.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/02/2008 @ 01:42am
You wrote ..... That is an outline for health care reform that really would represent "change we can believe in."
..... Really? .....
It might be better than the 2004 platform, but it's still weak.
This is a "very big deal" as they say, referring to the support monitor http://www.ninenineohnine.org/pages/Monitor_Popular_Support Americans want non-profit single-payer national health insurance!
***PRESENT*** in the PDA platform proposal---
"universal health care" ------ This is worthless due to its having gotten to the point of meaning nothing. Is this non-profit or not or are we to just "assume" that it is (as we consider what "assume" can mean)
"guaranteed accessible health care for all" ------ Another worthless phrase due to its implication that health care will be free. Nothing is free.
"eliminate financial barriers" ------ This is not only meaningless and perhaps even scary. Isn't the Democratic Party going to eventually think that health care is a human right (single-payer). When we establish single-payer, there will automatically be no financial barriers!
"allow ... health care providers to make ... decisions ... on what is best for the ... patient." ------ another point for concern; this is no big deal with single-payer, but single-payer is not stated
***ABSENT** in the PDA proposal
"non-profit single-payer" ------ That would be meaningful and clearly stated.
Posted by RCH at 08/02/2008 @ 06:39am
Medicare for all is the simple solution for healthcare. Americans pay more for healthcare than any other industrialized country. Due in large part to the fact that all those other countries have some form of single payer healthcare. Private sector for profit healthcare has enormous operating costs (over 25%). Medicare on the other hand has very low operating costs (about 4%).
How to pay for it? Well if you have ever looked at your check stub, there is a deduction called Medicare Tax. It's about $12.00 on my paycheck. Well that deduction would go up. Maybe to lets say $25.00 or $30.00. But the deduction for $84.00 that I pay each week for private sector healthcare for just me, would disappear.
And so would all the forms and co-pays, aggravation and bankruptcy associated with our crazy as a craphouse rat system. Get it? I have lived in Great Britain and the Netherlands and it works just fine.
Posted by chaoszen at 08/02/2008 @ 07:27am
By the way with 108 million full time working Americans paying lets say $25.00 dollars a week towards one huge healthcare system. Medicare would take in about 2.7 billion dollars a week or 10.8 billion dollars a month towards our common healthcare costs. That is just a ballpark figure. But if there was a shortfall The Guv could make it up by taxing Big Oil for all the healthcare costs associated with the use of their oily hydrocarbon heroin...
Posted by chaoszen at 08/02/2008 @ 07:57am
Or better yet just nationalize the oil industry and use all those nifty profits to benefit the people who actually own the oil. That would us, the American people..
Posted by chaoszen at 08/02/2008 @ 08:01am
Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/01/2008 @ 11:47am
I have asked you this question 4 times, no answer (much like you have yet to pay your gambling debt with me)...
If the top 1% of taxpayers own 34% of the wealth, why should they not pay 34% of taxes?
If the top 20% own 84% of the wealth, why should they not pay 84%of the taxes?
The ratio of CEO pay to factory worker pay rose from 42:1 in 1960 to as high as 531:1 in 2000, at the height of the stock market bubble, when CEOs were cashing in big stock options;. It was at 411:1 in 2005. By way of comparison, the same ratio is about 25:1 in Europe.
If CEO's want to earn 411 times what they want to pay the rest of us, should they not pay 411 times the tax?
Posted by crabwalk at 08/02/2008 @ 08:55am
50% of bankruptcies are caused by medical debt. If those bills don't get payed up front, we all pay them.
Jomama and Ponti are already paying, they just don't want to accept it.
why not get it all in the open, not hidden like it is now?
If nothing else, the Greatest Nation on Earth should be able to supply EVERY child with basic healthcare.
Posted by crabwalk at 08/02/2008 @ 09:01am
JOMMAMA has claimed he is going to make close to 10 million on his new gizmo, while paying techs 65k/yr. 65k is not bad money, depending on where the person lives, but nowhere near $10,000,000. I would think that a Jesus follower that makes 10 million could find it in his heart to to give some of that back to the country he loves and to help those that God has not seen fit to bless as much as others.
didn't the (w)holy fellow say something about "We will be known by how we treat the least of us?"
Posted by crabwalk at 08/02/2008 @ 09:09am
[If you wonder how such a large gap could develop, the proximate, or most immediate, factor involves the way in which CEOs now are able to rig things so that the board of directors, which they help select -- and which includes some fellow CEOs on whose boards they sit -- gives them the pay they want. The trick is in hiring outside experts, called compensation consultants, who give the process a thin veneer of economic respectability.
The process has been explained in detail by a retired CEO of DuPont, Edgar S. Woolard, Jr., who is now chair of the New York Stock Exchange's executive compensation committee. His experience suggests that he knows whereof he speaks, and he speaks because he's concerned that corporate leaders are losing respect in the public mind. He says that the business page chatter about CEO salaries being set by the competition for their services in the executive labor market is "bull." As to the claim that CEOs deserve ever higher salaries because they "create wealth," he describes that rationale as a "joke," says the New York Times (Morgenson, 2005, Section 3, p. 1).
Here's how it works, according to Woolard:
The compensation committee [of the board of directors] talks to an outside consultant who has surveys you could drive a truck through and pay anything you want to pay, to be perfectly honest. The outside consultant talks to the human resources vice president, who talks to the CEO. The CEO says what he'd like to receive. It gets to the human resources person who tells the outside consultant. And it pretty well works out that the CEO gets what he's implied he thinks he deserves, so he will be respected by his peers. (Morgenson, 2005.)]
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
Posted by crabwalk at 08/02/2008 @ 09:32am
Taxpayers in the United States will pay $116.6 billion for tax cuts for the richest 10% in FY 2009. For the same amount of money, the following could have been provided:
34,365,274 People with Health Care for One Year
---- Taxpayers in the United States will pay $12.2 billion for proposed ballistic missile defense in FY2009. For the same amount of money, the following could have been provided:
3,595,680 People with Health Care for One Year
---
Taxpayers in the United States will pay $15.1 billion for nuclear weapons in FY2008. For the same amount of money, the following could have been provided:
4,454,264 People with Health Care for One Year
---
So, without raising taxes a dime, we could, if we were a concerned people, supply basic healthcare to 48,000,000 people.
Or we could pay for fear based systems of death.
Posted by crabwalk at 08/02/2008 @ 09:37am
Posted by crabwalk at 08/02/2008 @ 08:55am
CRABBIE, I'm happy to contribute to your ongoing education. You can thank me later.
In this country, taxes are paid on income, not wealth. Thus, it's called an 'income tax', not a 'wealth tax'. If people were required to pay a tax on what they already own, my guess is your kind benefactress at the Nation (KVH), who lives off the sweat of her father and grandfather, might be a little less congenial when it comes to indulging your socialist fantasies.
Posted by pontificus at 08/02/2008 @ 11:00am
Posted by lvliberty1 at 08/02/2008 @ 10:58am
Yes, liberals commonly make the assumption that whatever you have that the government 'lets' you keep is an expense to the government. This is how they can deem a tax cut to be an 'expense'. In other words, they consider everything that you own to belong to the government, it's just that the government is kind enough to let you keep something, i.e, that we should all be slaves.
Posted by pontificus at 08/02/2008 @ 11:03am
Who is "the government"?
Space aliens.
Pontificus can contribute to my education like Jack Abramoff can teach me about ethics.
There are more taxes than income tax, Ponti. Did you know that? I would think you would, but maybe not. Is the justice Dept executing a democratic witch hunt against Sen Pork Barrel (r-Alaska)?
Luvvy, it takes X amount of money to run the countries government. The "mainstream" does not want to do away with Soc Sec, medicare/aid, or many other programs that help people, and you and Ponti don't want to count the war in the budget. Therefore if the holders of the wealth don't want to pay, then you will. that means if the Treasury Dept takes in the same amount of money for a year, but takes less from McCain supporters like the Paris Hilton family, then someone else (a fellow "taxpayer") will have to make up the difference.
If we all save 20% on our healthcare, due to administration or "beeyro-cracy" savings, we all get to keep that money. If Japan, Sweden, Finland and other countries can make it work, surely God's Chosen Americans can too? Or do you have such a poor opinion of your fellow Americans that you think we can't do it?
Posted by crabwalk at 08/02/2008 @ 12:13pm
American Society of Civil Engineers, a known communist group, has report cards on the American infrastructure. It is bad.
2005-http://www.asce.org/reportcard/2005/page.cfm?id=103
This takes money. Where should it come from? From my point of view it should be an equitable cost sharing. In my book, the Paris Hiltons and Britneys of the world should pay more than the tomato pickers.
but, I am a loon.
Posted by crabwalk at 08/02/2008 @ 12:23pm
Ponti, slavery in America. And no, just because there have been a few caught, does not mena it has stopped. You sure do have a weird sense of slavery.
[Although slavery was officially banned in the United States more than 130 years ago, some immigrant workers who pick the crops that end up on our dinner tables still are enslaved.
Earlier this month, federal officials in south Florida arrested Antonia Zuniga Vargas on a 17-count indictment, charging her with conspiring to make money off workers from Mexico and Guatemala, forging documents and committing identity theft. Vargas, along with five other co-defendants, is connected to a business operation in Immokalee, Fla., allegedly created to hold workers in involuntary servitude and peonage.
Chief Assistant U.S. Attorney Doug Molloy told the Fort Myers News-Press Vargas and the others are charged with:
…slavery, plain and simple. Some of the folks have been there for years. It is the hope to send back money to their families, and they hang on to that hope. It's just a situation that's difficult to get out of.
According to the federal indictment, the co-defendants, for more than two years, held more than a dozen people as slaves on their property. They made them sleep in box trucks and shacks, charged them for food and showers, didn't pay them for picking produce and beat them if they tried to leave. The documents list 13 instances when the workers were beaten.
Since 1997, federal civil rights officials have prosecuted five such slavery operations run by Florida growers, involving more than 1,000 workers.]
who made money off of these slaves?
The owners of the farm
the owners of stock in any company that bought those tomatoes.
Ponit, JM and others will defend those people till their willies fall off, and not give an inch on wages for the pickers. But, Ponti will wax inelequent about how his "hard earned" money is being taxed to make him a slave to kids that need vaccinations.
Posted by crabwalk at 08/02/2008 @ 12:29pm
have lived in Great Britain and the Netherlands and it works just fine. Posted by chaoszen at 08/02/2008 @ 07:27am
That can't be true, CH. Ponti and others have heard stories about how the Netherlands is just like Cuba!! They are all slaves!!!
[Slave Labor Uses
Prostitution, pornography, stripping
Domestic servitude (e.g. nannies and maids)
Agriculture (e.g. farms and dairies)
Hard labor (e.g. construction, landscaping, and mining)
Sweatshops
Child soldiers
Peddling and begging
Hospitality industries (e.g. hotels and restaurants)
Other poorly regulated industries
Slavery in the United States
Contemporary slavery/human trafficking remains a reality for many victims in the United States, where both American citizens and foreign nationals are trafficked into and within the United States for forced labor. Victims are men, women, and children and are from diverse nationalities, ethnicities and religions. They are found in any situation where another person is willing to exploit another for profit. Victims have included, among others:
Members of a Zambian boys choir who were forced to sing to earn their traffickers a profit and withheld from obtaining an education were promised;
Hearing-impaired Mexicans (men, women and children) who were forced to peddle items on the streets of New York to earn money for their traffickers;
South Asian women forced to work in a textile factory without pay and with constant physical and sexual violence against them Young American girls forced to prostitute themselves on the streets of Los Angeles (and dozens of other cities) while under constant physical and sexual violence from pimps and those purchasing the sex;
Latino men forced to work on farms without pay, long hours, under armed guard, and constant violence or threat of violence against them.]
http://www.freedomcenter.org/slavery-today/
Posted by crabwalk at 08/02/2008 @ 12:33pm
What's this about the drug addict divorcee, Happy?
You Rush addicts are trying to poke fun at the guy that can turn out 250,000 in Europe?
---
Ponti, I am looking for a connection between your slavery and Sandy Berger, any hints for me?
Posted by crabwalk at 08/02/2008 @ 1:15pm
Happy, take some time out of your schedule to read up on Rush's earlier comments about McCain. It seems he might be mentally unbalanced after his "aggressive interrogation" at the hands of the Cong, among other things that make him totally unfit to lead. According to Rush.
Posted by crabwalk at 08/02/2008 @ 1:19pm
Ya think those "250,000 in Europe" can listen to Magic for 3 hours per day, 5 days per week? Some, with Kool-aid addicted mindset like you, I'm sure CAN....since He's the ONE YOUR world has been waiting for, huh? The Messiah On-Loan-from-Allah.....LOL!! Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/02/2008 @ 1:20pm
Let me get this straight, Obama turns out 250k to listen to a speech.
20 million 'Mericans listen to Rush 3 hrs/day 5 days/week, and your calling the Obama people Kool-aid addicted?
Posted by crabwalk at 08/02/2008 @ 3:07pm
If I remember correctly, Rush was on 3 hrs/day 5 days/ week telling us that Saddam had nukes, drone planes and a stockpile of biological agents destined for America via AQ's connections to the Iraqi government.
Kool-aid for the sheep?
no, journalism of the highest order.
Posted by crabwalk at 08/02/2008 @ 3:10pm
So, I just came from a visit with a man running for township supervisor. He was telling me of the current board, all republicans other than himself.
The current supervisor is a figurehead, another guy pulls the strings. Common knowledge.
This puller;
1: Hired his brother to be zoning administrator/building inspector. This guy has allowed 5 homes to be built by friends with no permits, no inspections. He himself has built 3 houses , yet he has no builders license.
2: Was sleeping with the twp secretary while they were both married. Then he loaned her money, in violation of the law concerning government officials and how they operate in office.
Another repub board member is now living with his pastors wife. He is being excommunicated from the Lutheran Church.
Another repub board member, running for Supervisor, was caught using a closed state prison garage as his personal storage facility. He had busted down walls, installed his own doors and locks and was storing stolen material. oohh, the irony!!! (up for decision yet is whether he actually knew it was stolen, he claims no, the cops claim yes). He was caught after he had almost successfully pinned the guilt on an innocent employee of his.
21 people have resigned or been fired from the board, twp offices and facilities since these repubs took over. Those fired were fired due to criminal activities, civil infractions or ethics violations. Those that resigned did so because they refused to go along with criminal, civil and unethical activities.
The former Chief of police had two restraining orders against him, one for sexual harassment of a former twp secretary, one for harassment of a local business. This is the same guy that gave me a ticket for going 42 in a 45mph zone. He did not know the speed zones in hi own jurisdiction.
Yep, government runs best when the Family Values crowd has the reigns!!!
Sing to me HAPPY and Ponti!!!!
sing me the praises of this Kool-aid of which you speak! IS this the kool-aid that has you using "The One" after only a short media buy with that reference?
IS this the kool-aid that has 12% of republicans thinking Obama is a Muslim?
I want to make sure I get mine from the right trough.
Posted by crabwalk at 08/02/2008 @ 3:28pm
Posted by crabwalk at 08/02/2008 @ 3:28pm
The humorous part is that apparently you think that only republicans are guilty of such things. Ever heard of William Jefferson? Marion Berry? Robert Torticelli? Jim McGreevey? Mel Reynolds? The list goes on, but I think you get the point.
What flavor is your Kool-Aid?
Posted by dailycomfort at 08/02/2008 @ 6:29pm
Or better yet just nationalize the oil industry and use all those nifty profits to benefit the people who actually own the oil.
Posted by chaoszen at 08/02/2008 @ 08:01am
oh, it's WAY too late for that.
maybe if it were 1950........
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/02/2008 @ 9:17pm
Or we could pay for fear based systems of death.
Posted by crabwalk at 08/02/2008 @ 09:37am
continue paying......
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/02/2008 @ 9:19pm
actually, borrowing is a better term.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/02/2008 @ 9:19pm
Nice way to spend some leisure time.....just melting into the crowd.....when it's 98 degrees outside...:))
Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/02/2008 @ 5:55pm
humans just don't get it.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/02/2008 @ 9:26pm
......As a group, the market share of GM, Ford and Chrysler dropped to 43 percent in July....
Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/02/2008 @ 6:31pm
now that's something to be proud of!!!
the demise of one of the industries that propelled america in the 20th century.
now you've got swaths of the country abandoned like yesterday's whore.
if only you'd listen to mr. carter when he put that sweater on and told you to get some serious gas mileage from the pollution machines.
oh well.
i hear the chinese are planning on opening shop in the new ohio valley free trade zone.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/02/2008 @ 9:32pm
Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/02/2008 @ 6:37pm
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/02/2008 @ 9:33pm
"humans just don't get it." Posted by frosty zoom
This is especially true of white folks. My wife shared with me an old saying, I believe from the age of British colonial rule in India and Africa:
"Only mad dogs and Englishmen remain active under the noonday sun."
Posted by JakobFabian at 08/02/2008 @ 9:39pm
Posted by chaoszen at 08/02/2008 @ 08:01am
"Or better yet just nationalize the oil industry and use all those nifty profits to benefit the people who actually own the oil."
Now THIS guy is the quintessential leftist. FROSTY, you and CRABBIE should listen to this guy. He's you folks taken to your logical extreme. Talk about a sense of entitlement! He sits on his ass, typing on the internet, probably collecting government checks...and all the oil in the world belongs to him!
This is funnier than you folks trying to convince people that you're going to make the health care system more efficient and less costly by putting the post office in charge!
Posted by pontificus at 08/02/2008 @ 9:45pm
"Only mad dogs and Englishmen remain active under the noonday sun."
Posted by JakobFabian at 08/02/2008 @ 9:39pm
you know,
the people of the north view those of the south as being "lazy".
it's frikkin' hot! who wants to work?
plus, in the south, food is (was) plentiful. why bother working if your stomach's already full?
and take a look outside on a hot day. no squirrels, groundhogs, racoons, skunks, possums, rats, mice or birds in sight.
why not?
because they're smart enough to go to sleep until evening.
humans are the only animal that insists on living on top of the ecosystem instead of in it.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/02/2008 @ 9:52pm
This is funnier than you folks trying to convince people that you're going to make the health care system more efficient and less costly by putting the post office in charge!
Posted by pontificus at 08/02/2008 @ 9:45pm
have you heard they're going to privatize the presidency?
http://www.neoblabberal.con/finally/who's_your_daddy?
August 2nd, 2008
POTUSCORP has been awarded a no-bid contract to conduct presidential affairs for the next 6 years.
Company spokesface, Darnit Owell: "We look forward to serving America's presidential needs with efficiency and transparency, all the while ensuring our shareholders receive the best possible return on their investment".
Workers could be seen outfitting the companies latest franchise, located on Pennsylvania Avenue in Historic Washington D.C., with POTUSCORP's corporate logo.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/02/2008 @ 10:05pm
......As a group, the market share of GM, Ford and Chrysler dropped to 43 percent in July....
Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/02/2008 @ 6:31pm
In contrast, if the United States had continued raising auto fuel efficiency standards annually between 1985-2005 by a quarter of the amount it raised them annually from 1980-1985 -- instead of leaving them virtually unchanged -- the result would have roughly been the equivalent of 3.3 million barrels of oil per day in new production in 2008 -- 16 times the impact of McCain's Offshore Drilling [MOD], CEPR reports.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/02/2008 @ 10:22pm
More offshore drilling
Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/02/2008 @ 12:40am
no. no. no.
save the oil for 23rd century plastics. oil is just funky old solar energy.
the sun is hot. we must look to the sun.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/02/2008 @ 01:42am
Science is publishing an MIT paper (in press) outlining a revolutionary leap that could transform solar power from a marginal boutique energy source into the mainstream.
The breakthrough revolves around storing energy when the sun isn't shining--an expensive pitfall until now.
The new method uses the sun's energy to split water into hydrogen and oxygen gases. Like photosynthesis.
Later the two can be recombined inside a fuel cell to create carbon-free electricity. Like running a fuel cell backwards.
The good part is the system would work day or night. The other good part is it requires nothing but abundant, nontoxic natural materials.
"This is the nirvana of what we've been talking about for years," said senior author Daniel Nocera. "Now we can seriously think about solar power as unlimited and soon."
For those who want to know how it works…
A new catalyst produces oxygen gas from water. Another catalyst produces hydrogen gas. The new catalyst is a combination of cobalt metal, phosphate, and an electrode, placed in water. When electricity (from photovoltaic cell, wind turbine, or other source) runs through the electrode, the cobalt and phosphate form a thin film on the electrode and oxygen gas is produced.
Combined with another catalyst like platinum (which can produce hydrogen gas from water) the system duplicates the water-splitting reaction of photosynthesis.
Also good: the catalyst works at room temperature, in neutral pH water, and is easy to set up. "That's why I know this is going to work," says Nocera. "It's so easy to implement."
Well, by George, implement away!
BTW, this study has interesting hybrid parentage between government and philanthropy. May they couple more often.
http://www.motherjones.com/blue_marble_blog/archives/2008/07/9158_solar_ nirvana.html
••••••••••••••• hmmm? maybe we're aren't as dumb as the plants, after all.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/02/2008 @ 10:31pm
Hey FROSTY, how are you feeling tonight? Are we out of the recession yet? bwahahahhhhhaaaaaa
Posted by pontificus at 08/02/2008 @ 10:55pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/02/2008 @ 10:31pm
Hey, uh, FROSTY? I learend about that stuff in college 25 years ago. Can you tell me exactly what is so revolutionary about hydrolysis?
FROSTY, you don't have enough technical knowledge to know shit from bullshit. That's why I find it so laughable that you think yourself qualified to make policies regarding technology, or even to know which politicians are full of shit when it comes to making such policies. It's why government should stay out of these fields, it's the blind leading the blind.
Posted by pontificus at 08/02/2008 @ 11:01pm
if your so blind as to not want effective solar energy.......
where the #$%@#%@@$%!#% are you gonna get your power from,
¿oil?
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/03/2008 @ 01:31am
here,
read this:
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2008/oxygen-0731.html
ha! mit. commies.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/03/2008 @ 01:38am
That's why I find it so laughable that you think yourself qualified to make policies regarding technology,
by plantificus.
wow. you've elevated my status.
mr. frosty goes to washington.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/03/2008 @ 01:42am
the sun is hot.
real hot.
and big and hot.
tax free.
sun. good.
ask the plants.
after all, they made your precious hydrocarbons.
ethanol, for a bad example, is solar energy.
why not work to cut out the middleplant, ¿no?
c'mon, planti.
you say you like the smell of clean country air.
wouldn't you like to smell clean city air??!?!!?!?
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/03/2008 @ 01:48am
That's why I find it so laughable that you think yourself qualified to make policies regarding technology,
by plantificus.
are you voting for mccain?
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/03/2008 @ 01:50am
he humorous part is that apparently you think that only republicans are guilty of such things. Ever heard of William Jefferson? Marion Berry? Robert Torticelli? Jim McGreevey? Mel Reynolds? The list goes on, but I think you get the point. What flavor is your Kool-Aid? Posted by dailycomfort at 08/02/2008 @ 6:29pm
Like Pontificus, you know nothing. I do not think that only republicans are swine, it just happens that lately they account for the majority of those convicted of crimes, and locally they excel at ethics violations and law breaking.
A normal person that was in favor of ethics would read what I wrote and be aghast, not make a Pontificus-like attempt to dodge the real issue.
Would you like a short list of pols whose names can be found in current news stories, not dragged from the catacombs of memory banks?
Lets see:
Sen Stevens (r)
Jack Abramoff (r)
Scooter Libby (r)
William Jefferson (d)
Tom Delay (r)- read up on his connections to the Rusiian Mob!
Karl Rove (r), refuses to honor a subpoena
Hariet Miers (r)
Monica Goodling (r) speaking of Kool-aid, this is one of the questions she asked lawyers that wanted to work for the Justice dept as independent voices for the law "What is it about George Bush that makes you wan to serve him?" Ponti, do you remember how your kool-aid told you what she did was ok? Turns out Chimpies very own justice dept found she violated civil law.
Larry Craig (r)
this does not include the pedophiles and other secret homosexuals that have been outed in the last year.
Now, the truly interesting thing about these folks is that they go around telling us that they have Family Values, they are God's people and that the Ten Suggestions should be posted on every flat or vertical surface so that those of us with no morals will have a guide.
Daily, if you think it is ok to govern like this, then you have no problem with the dems on your list. If you think pols should obey laws and regulations, then you SHOULD have a problem with those repubs you vote for and prop up violating those rules.
But wait, you left out Sandy Berger!!!
Posted by crabwalk at 08/03/2008 @ 09:22am
Chimpy violated FISA
Sandy Berger!!
Monica goodling violated civil law
Sandy Berger!
Abramoff created a culture of bribery and kickbacks.
Sandy Berger!!
Halliburton has squandered billions of your tax dollars.
Sandy Berger!!!
Billions more have been lost to graft under Chimpies reign of error.
William Jefferson!!!
Worst job creation numbers in a decade.
Rostenkowski!!!
Posted by crabwalk at 08/03/2008 @ 09:27am
PontiFlogic, why is it that "the Post Office" can supply healthcare to all of the "heroes" that serve in the military, but would be incapable of doing it for the rest of the country?
Posted by crabwalk at 08/03/2008 @ 09:50am
See, this is why Pontis kool-aid drinkers should not be allowed to govern, they want a war, so they hire an energy services company to supply it, with no bidding and at cost plus with no oversight.
They think that the post office supplies healthcare .
they think that that is the way the world should work, they whine about gub-ment, but don't want anybody but themselves overseeing it, which they won't do. They think gub-ment is run by aliens, not the same people that run everything else. They wanted a CEO President, but hired a guy that had done nothing positive in the world of business.
they whine about earmarks and wasteful federal spending, but defend the guy that was King of Alaska pork.
they whine that The Ten Suggestions should be carved in granite, but see no law breaking even by convicted felons.
Posted by crabwalk at 08/03/2008 @ 09:56am
I am also NOT be among those who thinks (for sure) he's a Christian.......put me as `Unconvinced', even if he had been baptized! That goes for most anyone who worshipped Rev. Wright's version of `Christianity' for over 20 years! Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/02/2008 @ 6:37pm
Which version of Christianity is the "REAL ONE" in your oh-so open eyes? And, as FZ points out, if you believe the Constitution is The Law of the Land, what difference does it make if O is a Muslim, Bahai, Jew or a not-christian christian?
You tell us which of these is legitimate in the mind of the guy that does not give a rats ass about the Burmese people;
Armenian Catholic Church Belarusian Greek Catholic Church Bulgarian Catholic Church Chaldean Catholic Church Coptic Catholic Church Croatian Greek Catholic Church Ethiopian Catholic Church Georgian Catholic Church Greek Catholic Church Hungarian Greek Catholic Church Italo-Albanian Catholic Church Macedonian Catholic Church Maronite Catholic Church Melkite Catholic Church Romanian Catholic Church Russian Catholic Church Ruthenian Catholic Church (usually called the "Byzantine Catholic Church" in the United States) Slovak Greek Catholic Church Syrian Catholic Church Syro-Malabar Church Syro-Malankara Catholic Church Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church
Anglican Church in Aotearoa, New Zealand and Polynesia Anglican Church in Thailand Anglican Church of Australia Anglican Church of Burundi Anglican Church of Canada Anglican Church of Kenya Anglican Church of Korea Anglican Church of Papua New Guinea Anglican Church of Southern Africa Anglican Church of Tanzania Church in the Province of the West Indies Church in Wales (1914) Church of England (1534) Church of Ireland (1536) Church of Nigeria Church of Uganda Church of the Province of Central Africa Church of the Province of Melanesia Church of the Province of Myanmar Church of the Province of Rwanda Church of the Province of South East Asia Church of the Province of the Indian Ocean Church of the Province of West Africa Episcopal Church in Jerusalem and the Middle East Episcopal Church in the United States of America Episcopal Church of Cuba Episcopal Church of the Sudan Hong Kong Sheng Kung Hui Iglesia Anglicana de la Region Central America Iglesia Anglicana de México Iglesia Anglicana del Cono Sur de las Americas Igreja Episcopal Anglicana do Brasil Lusitanian Church of Portugal Nippon Sei Ko Kai (Japan) Philippine Episcopal Church Scottish Episcopal Church Spanish Reformed Episcopal Church Church of Bangladesh Church of North India Church of South India Church of Pakistan Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople Finnish Orthodox Church Estonian Apostolic Orthodox Church (autonomy not universally recognized) Patriarchal Exarchate for Orthodox Parishes of Russian Tradition in Western Europe (autonomy not universally recognized) Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America Greek Orthodox Church of Jerusalem Saint Catherine's Monastery (considered autocephalous by some) Russian Orthodox Church Latvian Orthodox Church (semi-autonomous) Moldovan Orthodox Church (autonomy not universally recognized) Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchate) Japanese Orthodox Church(autonomy not universally recognized) Chinese Orthodox Church Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (semi-autonomous; not universally recognized) Estonian Orthodox Church of Moscow Patriarchate (semi-autonomous; not universally recognized) Serbian Orthodox Church Orthodox Ohrid Archbishopric (autonomy not universally recognized) Romanian Orthodox Church Metropolis of Bessarabia Bulgarian Orthodox Church Georgian Orthodox and Apostolic Church Cypriot Orthodox Church Church of Greece Polish Orthodox Church Orthodox Autocephalous Church of Albania Czech and Slovak Orthodox Church Orthodox Church in America (autocephaly not universally recognized) Russian Orthodox Church in America (not universally recognized) Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria British Orthodox Church French Coptic Orthodox Church Syriac Orthodox Church Jacobite Syrian Christian Church Armenian Apostolic Church Holy See of Cilicia Armenian Patriarchate of Constantinople Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church Eritrean Orthodox Tewahedo Church American Catholic Church in the United States (1999) Brazilian Catholic Apostolic Church (1945) Catholic Charismatic Church of Canada (1968) Catholic Church, Inc.(2005) Celtic Catholic Church (1974) Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association (1957) Communion of Christ the Redeemer (2007) Free Catholic Church (1945) Liberal Catholic Church (1916) Mariavite Church (1906) Old Catholic Church (1870) Old Catholic Church of America (1925) Old Catholic Church in Europe (2006) Palmarian Catholic Church (1975) Philippine Independent Church (1902) Polish National Catholic Church (1897) Spiritus Christi (1998) True Catholic Church (1998) African Orthodox Church (1919) Anglican Catholic Church (1977) Anglican Church in America (1991) Anglican Mission in the Americas (2000) Anglican Orthodox Church (2001) Anglican Province of America (1995) Anglican Province of Christ the King (1977) Charismatic Episcopal Church (1992) Christian Episcopal Church (2002) Church of England (Continuing) (1994) Church of England in South Africa (1938) Communion of Evangelical Episcopal Churches (1994) Episcopal Missionary Church (1992) Free Church of England (1844) Free Protestant Episcopal Church (1897) Reformed Episcopal Church (1873) Southern Episcopal Church (1962) Greek Old Calendarists Montenegrin Orthodox Church Macedonian Orthodox Church Russian Old Believers Ukrainian Orthodox Church: Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Kiev Patriarchy) Apostolic Lutheran Church of America (1872) Association of Free Lutheran Congregations (1962) Church of the Lutheran Brethren of America (1900) Church of the Lutheran Confession (1963) Concordia Lutheran Conference Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference (1993) Evangelical Lutheran Church "Concord" - Russia Evangelical Lutheran Free Church (Germany) - Germany Evangelical Lutheran Synod - United States Lutheran Church of Central Africa Malawi Conference - Malawi Lutheran Church of Central Africa Zambia Conference - Zambia Ukrainian Lutheran Church - Ukraine Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod - United States
Posted by crabwalk at 08/03/2008 @ 10:07am
Evangelical Catholic Church (1976) Evangelical Community Church-Lutheran (1997) Evangelical Lutheran Diocese of North America (ELDoNA) (2006) International Lutheran Council (1993) American Association of Lutheran Churches (AALC) Evangelical Lutheran Church--Synod of France and Belgium Evangelical Lutheran Church of Brazil Evangelical Lutheran Church of England Gutnius Lutheran Church Independent Evangelical--Lutheran Church Japan Lutheran Church Lanka Lutheran Church Lutheran Church - Canada Lutheran Church--Hong Kong Synod Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod Lutheran Church of Australia (associate member) Laestadian Lutheran Church (1973) Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ -USA (2000) Latvian Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (1975) Lutheran Ministerium and Synod - USA (1995) The Lutheran Evangelical Protestant Church (GCEPC) -USA (2000) Lutheran World Federation (1947) Church of Denmark (Evangelical Lutheran Church in Denmark) National Church of Iceland (Evangelical Lutheran Church of Iceland) Church of Norway (Evangelical Lutheran Church of Norway) Church of Sweden Estonian Evangelical Lutheran Church Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession in Slovakia Evangelical Lutheran Free Church of Norway (Associate member) Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada Evangelical Lutheran Church of Papua New Guinea Evangelical Lutheran Church in Southern Africa Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland Evangelical Lutheran Church of Latvia Evangelical Lutheran Church in Tanzania Lutheran Church of Australia (associate member) Asia Lutheran Communion Africa Lutheran Communion World Alliance of Reformed Churches Canadian and American Reformed Churches Christian Reformed Church in North America Christian Reformed Churches of Australia Confederation of Reformed Evangelical Churches Congregational Federation of Australia Dutch Reformed Church Federation of Swiss Protestant Churches Free Reformed Churches of North America Heritage Reformed Congregations Netherlands Reformed Congregations Orthodox Christian Reformed Church Protestant Reformed Churches in America Reformed Church in America Reformed Church in Hungary Reformed Church in the United States Remonstrant Brotherhood The United Church of Canada United Reformed Churches in North America Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church Bible Presbyterian Church Christ Community Church Church of Scotland Confederation of Reformed Evangelical Churches Cumberland Presbyterian Church Evangelical Presbyterian Church Evangelical Presbyterian Church in England and Wales Evangelical Presbyterian Church of Ukraine Evangelical Presbyterian Church (Australia) Free Church of Scotland Free Church of Scotland (Continuing) Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster Free Presbyterian Church (Australia) Orthodox Presbyterian Church Presbyterian Church in America Presbyterian Church of Aotearoa New Zealand Presbyterian Church of Australia Presbyterian Church in Canada Presbyterian Church of Eastern Australia Presbyterian Church in Ireland Presbyterian Church of Korea Presbyterian Church in Taiwan Presbyterian Church of Wales (also a Methodist church) Presbyterian Church (USA) Presbyterian Reformed Church (Canada) Presbyterian Reformed Church (Australia) Reformed Church of France Reformed Presbyterian Church of Australia Reformed Presbyterian Church General Assembly Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America Southern Presbyterian Church (Australia) Upper Cumberland Presbyterian Church The United Church of Canada United Free Church of Scotland Uniting Presbyterian Church in Southern Africa Westminster Presbyterian Church of Australia Amish Beachy Amish Nebraska Amish Old Order Amish Swartzendruber Amish Apostolic Christian Church Hutterites Bruderhof Communities Brethren in Christ Mennonites Alliance of Mennonite Evangelical Congregations Chortitzer Mennonite Conference Church of God in Christ, Mennonite (Holdeman Mennonites) Conservative Mennonite Conference Evangelical Mennonite Church Evangelical Mennonite Conference Evangelical Mennonite Mission Conference Evangelical Missionary Church Fellowship of Evangelical Bible Churches (formerly Evangelical Mennonite Brethren) Mennonite Brethren Churches Canadian Conference of Mennonite Brethren Churches Japan Mennonite Brethren Conference US Conference of Mennonite Brethren Churches Mennonite Church Canada General Conference Mennonite Church (merged) Mennonite Church in the Netherlands Mennonite Church USA General Conference Mennonite Church (merged) Missionary Church Old Order Mennonites Swiss Mennonite Conference African Methodist Episcopal Church African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church Christian Methodist Episcopal Church (Dallas, TX) Congregational Methodist Church Church of North India Church of Pakistan Church of South India Church of the Nazarene Evangelical Church Evangelical Church of the Dominican Republic Evangelical Methodist Church The Evangelical Church (Spain) First Congregational Methodist Church The Free Methodist Church (North America) Free Wesleyan Church (Tonga) Fundamental Methodist Conference, Inc. Methodist Church in Ireland Methodist Church in Singapore Methodist Church of Fiji and Rotuma Methodist Church of Great Britain Methodist Church of Malaysia Methodist Church of New Zealand Methodist Church of Southern Africa Presbyterian Church of Wales (also a Presbyterian church) Primitive Methodist Church The United Church of Canada United Methodist Church Uniting Church in Australia The Wesleyan Church (Indianapolis, IN) Wesleyan Reform Union
Alliance of Baptists American Baptist Association American Baptist Churches USA Association of Baptist Churches in Ireland Association of Grace Baptist Churches Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America Association of Regular Baptist Churches Baptist Bible Fellowship International Baptist Conference of the Philippines Baptist Convention of Ontario and Quebec Baptist Convention of Western Cuba Baptist General Conference (formally Swedish Baptist General Conference) Baptist General Conference of Canada Baptist General Convention of Texas Baptist Missionary Association of America Baptist Union of Australia Baptist Union of Great Britain Baptist Union of New Zealand Baptist Union of Scotland Baptist Union of Western Canada Baptist World Alliance Bible Baptist Black Primitive Baptists Canadian Baptist Ministries Canadian Convention of Southern Baptists Central Baptist Association Central Canada Baptist Conference Christian Unity Baptist Association Conservative Baptist Association Conservative Baptist Association of America Continental Baptist Churches Convención Nacional Bautista de Mexico Convention of Atlantic Baptist Churches Cooperative Baptist Fellowship European Baptist Convention European Baptist Federation Evangelical Baptist Mission of South Haiti Evangelical Free Baptist Church Fellowship of Evangelical Baptist Churches in Canada Free Will Baptist Church Fundamental Baptist Fellowship of America General Association of Baptists General Association of General Baptists General Association of Regular Baptist Churches General Conference of the Evangelical Baptist Church, Inc. General Six-Principle Baptists Grace Baptist Assembly Independent Baptists Independent Baptist Church of America Independent Baptist Fellowship International Independent Baptist Fellowship of North America Interstate & Foreign Landmark Missionary Baptist Association Landmark Baptist Church Liberty Baptist Fellowship Myanmar Baptist Convention National Association of Free Will Baptists National Baptist Convention of America, Inc. National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc. National Baptist Evangelical Life and Soul Saving Assembly of the U.S.A. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America National Primitive Baptist Convention of the U.S.A. New England Evangelical Baptist Fellowship New Testament Association of Independent Baptist Churches Nigerian Baptist Convention North American Baptist Conference Norwegian Baptist Union Old Baptist Union Old Regular Baptists Old Time Missionary Baptists Primitive Baptists Progressive Baptists Progressive National Baptist Convention Reformed Baptists Regular Baptist Churches, General Association of Regular Baptists Separate Baptists Separate Baptists in Christ Seventh Day Baptists Southeast Conservative Baptists Southern Baptist Convention Southern Baptists of Texas Sovereign Grace Baptists Strict Baptists Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists Union d'Églises baptistes françaises au Canada United American Free Will Baptist Church United American Free Will Baptist Conference United Baptist Convention of the Atlantic Provinces United Baptists United Free Will Baptist Unregistered Baptist Fellowship World Baptist Alliance World Baptist Fellowship Church of the United Brethren in Christ Plymouth Brethren Open Brethren Exclusive Brethren Indian Brethren Kerala Brethren River Brethren Brethren in Christ Church Old Order River Brethren United Zion Church Schwarzenau Brethren Brethren Reformed Church Church of the Brethren Conservative Grace Brethren Churches, International Dunkard Brethren Ephrata Cloister Fellowship of Grace Brethren Churches Old German Baptist Brethren Old Order German Baptist Brethren The Brethren Church (Ashland Brethren) Social Brethren Apostolic Assemblies of Christ Apostolic Faith Church Apostolic Faith Mission of South Africa Assemblies of God Assembleias de Deus Assemblies of God in New Zealand Assemblies of God in the United Kingdom Assemblies of God in Vietnam Australian Christian Churches General Council of the Assemblies of God of the United States Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada Australian Fellowship of Faith Churches and Ministers Int. (AFFCMI) Bible-Pattern Church Fellowship Calvary Holiness Association Charismatic Church of God Communion of Evangelical Episcopal Churches Christian City Churches Christ Gospel Churches International Christian Church of North America Christian Congregation of Brazil Christian Outreach Centre Christian Revival Crusade Church of God (Charleston, Tennessee) Church of God (Chattanooga) Church of God (Cleveland) Church of God (Huntsville, Alabama) The Church of God (Jerusalem Acres) The Church of God for All Nations Church of God by Faith Church of God, House of Prayer Church of God in Christ Church of God Mountain Assembly Church of God of Prophecy Church of God of the Original Mountain Assembly Church of God with Signs Following Church of God of the Union Assembly Church of the Foursquare Gospel in the Philippines Church of the Little Children of Jesus Christ Congregational Holiness Church CRC Churches International Destiny Church Elim Fellowship Elim Pentecostal Church [The International Church of the Foursquare Gospel] Fire Baptized Holiness Church of God of the Americas Free Apostolic Church of Pentecost God is Love Pentecostal Church Holiness Baptist Association India Pentecostal Church of God Independent Assemblies of God, International International Church of the Foursquare Gospel International Pentecostal Church of Christ International Pentecostal Holiness Church Life Application Gospel Ministries International New Life Churches New Testament Christian Churches of America, Inc Open Bible Standard Churches Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada Pentecostal Church of God Pentecostal Free Will Baptist Church Pentecostal/Charismatic Churches of North America Pentecostal World Conference Potter's House Christian Fellowship Redeemed Christian Church of God Revival Centres International The Church of God (Jerusalem Acres) The Church of God for All Nations The Fellowship (FGFCMI) The Pentecostal Mission The Revival Fellowship United Gospel Tabernacles United Holy Church of America American Unitarian Conference The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (Arian Catholic) Branhamism (Believers Church) Christadelphians Christian Science Church of Christ, Scientist Christian Scientists Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ of the Apostolic Faith Church of the Blessed Hope (one of the groups otherwise known as Church of God of the Abrahamic Faith) Doukhobors ("Spirit-Wrestlers") Jehovah's Witnesses Makuya Most Holy Church of God in Christ Jesus Members Church of God International Molokans Subbotniks Geres Unification Church Unitarian Christian Association Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus Apostolic Brethren Apostolic Overcoming Holy Church of God Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ Bible Way Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ Church of Jesus Christ Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ of the Apostolic Faith House of Prayer Christian Church Pentecostal Assemblies of the World United Pentecostal Church International [Biblical Unitarian Church] American Unitarian Conference (USA) International Council of Unitarians and Universalists Australia and New Zealand Unitarian Association (ANZUA) Canadian Unitarian Council Deutsche Unitarier Religionsgemeinschaft, Germany European Unitarian Universalists General Assembly of Unitarian and Free Christian Churches, United Kingdom & Ireland Unitarian Universalist Association Unitarian Universalist Society of Spain Unitarisk Kirkesamfund, Denmark
Posted by crabwalk at 08/03/2008 @ 10:08am
Japanese Orthodox Church(autonomy not universally recognized)
FAIRNESS FOR THE JOCs!
let their autonomy be recognized!
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/03/2008 @ 11:00am
Posted by crabwalk at 08/03/2008 @ 09:22am
Gee, CRABBIE, now you're reduced to spamming the boards? You're raving more than usual, too. Must be a full moon.
Posted by pontificus at 08/03/2008 @ 11:06am
Posted by crabwalk at 08/03/2008 @ 09:50am
"PontiFlogic, why is it that "the Post Office" can supply healthcare to all of the "heroes" that serve in the military, but would be incapable of doing it for the rest of the country?"
First off, because of cost. The military gets great care, probably a little better than your average health plan. But it costs far more. I, like everyone else with any common sense, know that the government does EVERYTHING less efficiently than the private sector. All I need to figure that out is a trip to the Post Office or an encounter with the IRS, or any other transaction with the government. The idea that Post Office employees should be put in as replacements for, for example, the staff at my dental office makes me, as it should any sane person, shudder. The idea that that situation would IMPROVE the system makes me, and again, any sane person, guffaw. Since you do not have any common sense, I'm willing to bet that you still think the opposite. For you, the left is the appropriate millieu.
Posted by pontificus at 08/03/2008 @ 11:15am
I, like everyone else with any common sense, know that the government does EVERYTHING less efficiently than the private sector.
by plantificus.
August 2nd, 2008
POTUSCORP has been awarded a no-bid contract to conduct presidential affairs for the next 6 years.
Company spokesface, Darnit Owell: "We look forward to serving America's presidential needs with efficiency and transparency, all the while ensuring our shareholders receive the best possible return on their investment".
Workers could be seen outfitting the companies latest franchise, located on Pennsylvania Avenue in Historic Washington D.C., with POTUSCORP's corporate logo.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/03/2008 @ 11:20am
I, like everyone else with any common sense, know that the government does EVERYTHING less efficiently than the private sector.
by plantificus.
YOU NEED LAWS?
LAWCORP HAS THE SOLUTION.
Financial, Environmental, Criminal, Civil!!!!
We've got 'em all.
Call 1 800 GuideMe
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/03/2008 @ 11:25am
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/03/2008 @ 11:25am
True to the nihilistic, absolutist philosophy of many leftists, you seem only to imagine that it is all of one or all of another. As you will learn when you grow up, there are some things that a government must do, and things that are best left to private enterprise. Health care, as most Americans know, is one of those things left to private enterprise. Of course, if you cannot or do not intend to pay your own way, 'universal health care' looks great. The rest of us would be better off taking care of ourselves.
Posted by pontificus at 08/03/2008 @ 11:51am
True to the nihilistic, absolutist philosophy of many leftists, you seem only to imagine that it is all of one or all of another.
Posted by pontificus at 08/03/2008 @ 11:51am
I, like everyone else with any common sense, know that the government does EVERYTHING less efficiently than the private sector.
Posted by pontificus at 08/03/2008 @ 11:15am
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/03/2008 @ 1:07pm
Posted by pontificus at 08/03/2008 @ 11:51am
Health Statistics > expenditure per capita > current US$ (most recent) by country
#1 United States: 6,096.2 $ 2004 ...
#2 Luxembourg: 5,904 $ 2004 ...
#3 Switzerland: 5,571.9 $ 2004 ...
#4 Norway: 5,404.7 $ 2004 ...
#5 Monaco: 5,329.5 $ 2004 ...
#6 Iceland: 4,413 $ 2004 ...
#7 Denmark: 3,896.6 $ 2004 ...
#8 Austria: 3,683.31 $ 2004 ...
#9 Sweden: 3,532 $ 2004 ...
#10 Germany: 3,521.4 $ 2004 ...
#11 France: 3,464 $ 2004 ...
#12 Netherlands: 3,441.7 $ 2004 .
#13 Belgium: 3,363.2 $ 2004 ...
#14 San Marino: 3,355.7 $ 2004 ...
#15 Ireland: 3,234.1 $ 2004 ...
#16 Australia: 3,123.3 $ 2004 ...
#17 Canada: 3,037.6 $ 2004 ...
#18 United Kingdom: 2,899.7 $ 2004 ...
#19 Japan: 2,831.1 $ 2004 ...
#20 Finland: 2,664.3 $ 2004 ...
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
#1 Japan: 73.6 years
#2 Switzerland: 72.8 years
#3 Sweden: 71.8 years
#4 Australia: 71.6 years
#5 France: 71.3 years
#6 Iceland: 71.1 years
#7 Austria: 71 years
#8 Italy: 71 years
#9 Spain: 70.9 years
#10 Norway: 70.8 years
#11 Luxembourg: 70.6 years
#12 Greece: 70.4 years
#13 New Zealand: 70.3 years
#14 Germany: 70.2 years
#15 Finland: 70.1 years
#16 Denmark: 70.1 years
#17 Canada: 69.9 years
#18 Netherlands: 69.9 years
#19 Belgium: 69.7 years
#20 United Kingdom: 69.6 years
#21 Ireland: 69 years
#22 United States: 67.6 years
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yep, a great "system".
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/03/2008 @ 1:14pm
I'll bet your beloved health care's so-called advantage, drops to below 1!
Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/03/2008 @ 2:04pm
AT HALF THE COST, MONEYBAGS.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/03/2008 @ 2:07pm
nor the high % blacks (with their high-fat soul food and culture of not doing much work) in the US!
by notblackhappy
holy shit, i'll let everybody else take care of that one.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/03/2008 @ 2:09pm
Posted by crabwalk at 08/03/2008 @ 09:22am
BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Let's revisit the conversation. Your initial post lists the wrong-doings of some local republican officials (as told to you by a democrat)--and you proceed to ask Happy (or whoever) what the flavor of his Kool-Aid is. I proceed to give some balance to the scenario by showing you that corruption is a two-way street and ask about your Kool-Aid. You then CHASTISE ME for providing said list of democrat names and THEN proceed to give another biased list of your own.
BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA
Yeah, a regular "fair and balanced" guy you are. Your Kool-Aid must be stronger than usual today.
BTW, a couple of interesting side-notes: What did democrats do with William Jefferson after he was found with nearly $100,000 of bribe money in his freezer? Did they ask him to step down? Next, read about Mel Reynolds and his treatment by the press. Interesting stuff.
Posted by dailycomfort at 08/03/2008 @ 2:25pm
Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/03/2008 @ 2:21pm
back to the plantation with 'em.
that'll teach them slothful negroes about self-reliance!
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/03/2008 @ 2:34pm
Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/03/2008 @ 2:21pm
Don't worry too much about Frosty the Snowjob. I have already given him a resource--a book called "The Business of Health"--that essentially states that US health statistics are actually very competitive when corrected for certain factors and variables, just as you're doing.
Also, in a previous discussion with him, he was complaining to me and anyone who would "listen" that there were many deficiencies and problems with Canada's health care system. When I pointed out that those problems were in fact a result of a socialist system, he tried to pin the problems on the "right-wing" influence before announcing how wonderful the system works.
Blah, blah. Whatever.
DailyComfort (formerly Plain Bruce)
Posted by dailycomfort at 08/03/2008 @ 2:41pm
Posted by dailycomfort at 08/03/2008 @ 2:41pm
BETTER RESULTS AT HALF THE PRICE.
hmmmmmm?
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/03/2008 @ 2:47pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/03/2008 @ 2:47pm
Still at it, I see. Read the book.
Posted by dailycomfort at 08/03/2008 @ 2:51pm
HALF THE PRICE.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/03/2008 @ 3:00pm
you're trying to convince me your "system" is better when millions of your countrymen have no access to medical care.
no thanks.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/03/2008 @ 3:01pm
US health care statistics are actually very competitive..Posted by dailycomfort at 08/03/2008
You're out of your friggin mind or facsimile thereof. Do you have a retinue clearing the streets of "riffraff" before you make your appearances? What are you, the health care "determination" czar?
Posted by Sorelish at 08/03/2008 @ 3:12pm
ponti, the us 'government' = the 'private sector'
the artificial lines that separate them are the ruse that perpetuates
idea private sector does everything better than the government! c'mon dittobrain, they're partners fool
deficit / exxon profits, ham n' eggs
crab, to respond to your question, is it Iglesia Anglicana del Cono? Not sure, just guessing.
Posted by winyahn at 08/04/2008 @ 12:49am
"ponti, the us 'government' = the 'private sector'
the artificial lines that separate them are the ruse that perpetuates
idea private sector does everything better than the government! c'mon dittobrain, they're partners fool "
What kind of mush is this? No, the government is NOT the same as the private sector. It's no ruse. They are separate.
The private sector is the engine that keeps this country going, and going much better than all of those socialist failures that you lefties would have us emulate. The government has a role in putting the brakes on private sector excesses, but it can never displace the private sector, it's simply not suited for that role. You lefties are caught in some kind of 19th century timewarp, stuck back in a time when socialism had NOT been tried and found severely wanting. It's the central mystery of this website.
Posted by pontificus at 08/04/2008 @ 06:16am
Posted by dailycomfort at 08/03/2008 @ 2:25pm |
You should bring up Kwane Kilpatrick, not Jefferson, if you really want to talk malfeasance on the dem side.
But, regardless, you miss the point. If you ask someone like PontiFlogic, he will tell you that repubs/cons are much more trustworthy, honest and no dem should be allowed to run government because they cannot be trusted. Repubs are the party of the Christian Coalition, the Moral Majority and the Ten Commandments (suggestions). To me that would mean that they would have less corruption than any dems, but that ain't the case now is it?
but maybe you are like the rest of the neo-cons around here and you don't actually care about government corruption.
-----
Ponti, if the private sector is so efficient, why do Blackwater employees make 10 times what you pay the military to safeguard you from phantom wmd's?
Why do private healthcare insurers have 25-28% overhead and the VA, Medicare/aid have less than 10% administration overhead?
Why do the evil socialist countries listed by FZ have lower costs but longer lived citizens?
Posted by crabwalk at 08/04/2008 @ 07:30am
Happy, what are going to do when McCains black babies hit the WH lawn to "chill"?
Be afraid, be very afraid.
Posted by crabwalk at 08/04/2008 @ 07:32am
"The government has a role in putting the brakes on private sector excesses...."---Posted by pontificus at 08/04/2008 @ 06:16am
So there IS a place for regulation of business by the Government? It's simply a matter of nuance how you define "excesses"...right?
Posted by Maskdelta at 08/04/2008 @ 09:33am
Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/04/2008 @ 10:05am
No answers here.
If you earn income on money you have already earned, isn't it still income? The intial investment is not taxed twice, is it? All that is taxed is your gain.
Again, if CEO A makes 411 times what Installer B earns, why shouldn't CEO A pay 411 times the tax Installer B does? Regardless of what CEO A wants to call his income, "wage", "Compensation", "commission" or "bounus", the fact is that it is income.
If CEO B has 3 homes valued at several million dollars, shouldn't his property tax be more than Worker C that has one home worth 250K?
And getting back to the point of this blog, 50% of bankruptcies are due to healthcare debt. YOU are paying for it now, everytime you use the system, YOU don't want to admit it because it does not compute in your head. Don't you want to save money at the same time you get more people access to care?
Posted by crabwalk at 08/04/2008 @ 1:31pm
Why not look at what other countries do, see what works and what doesn't and make changes accordingly. If it does not work, change it again. What I see is what Flogic refers to "blind ideology", the "free mkt" works best. Obviously it does not, as we have some of the highest infant mortality, lowest life span and most costly healthcare of most industrialized nations. And we have more people in bad shape because they don't have access to basic care. Supplying basic care to all will cost less in the long run, for all of us.
sorry if it reeks of the evil socialism. But right now the banking/mortgage industry is availing itself of socialized capital and what I hear from the neo-cons is it is necessary to keep the "free mkt" alive and healthy.
If it's good enough for Bear Stearns and other massivly wealthy corporations, surely it can work for Joe six pack.
Posted by crabwalk at 08/04/2008 @ 1:38pm
There's something a little contradictory about wanting to "guarantee" monetary rights to everyone and calling oneself "progressive" all in the same breath. Do one or the other JOHN NICHOLS.
Posted by william.harry13 at 08/04/2008 @ 3:54pm
I pay for something called the Harris County Hospital System...that's the public hospital!
Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/03/2008 @ 3:55pm
excellent.
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/04/2008 @ 7:42pm