Tim Kaine? Don't Bet On It

Barack Obama could do worse than Virginia Governor Tim Kaine as a ticket-mate.

Kaine is a smart, articulate and principled attorney who spent much of his legal career making real the promise of open housing for people of color and people with disabilities. As a lawyer, he was a stalwart defender of civil rights and civil liberties who courageously challenged Virginia death penalty abuses.

Kaine learned to speak Spanish fluently while working with the poor in Central America and then came home to graduate with high marks from Harvard Law School. He could easily have gone corporate; instead he went to the grassroots, focusing in on fair-housing advocacy in Virginia and teaching legal ethics at the University of Richmond Law School.

When Kaine entered politics, the affable contender went from strength to strength. After winning election to the Richmond City Council and then serving successfully at that city's mayor, he beat a right-wing Republican with ties to the Bush administration in an edgy race for lieutenant governor that was decided just weeks after the September 11, 2001, attack on the Pentagon.

Four years later, he beat a former Republican state attorney general in an intense contest for governor. Smeared for his opposition to the death penalty and support for responsible fiscal policies -- which in the language of Republican attack ads translates as "raising taxes -- Kaine proved to be a remarkably agile contender. He piled up votes in the liberal Washington suburbs while holding his own in rural areas where his ability to go less Harvard and more homespun played well.

As governor, he has been both progressive and effective -- maintaining the responsible approach to budgeting initiated by former Governor Mark Warner, launching bold land conservation initiatives, making moves to bar smoking in a tobacco state where such a stance was once considered politically impossible and responding to the Virginia Tech massacre in a caring yet conscientious manner that won wide praise.

So Kaine really is a very attractive contender for the No. 2 spot on the Democratic ticket.

Unfortunately, it is unlikely that he will be Obama's running-mate.

While casual commentators suggest that Kaine's addition to the ticket would put the potential swing state of Virginia "into play," the reality is that Virginia is already competitive -- thanks to the same shifting political demographics that have seen the state elect two Democratic governors and a Democratic senator in recent statewide contests and that caused campaigners for John Kerry to consider making a play for the state in 2004.

And Kaine's selection would require Obama to spend more time explaining his choice than this presidential candidate – or any party leader involved in a high-stakes national campaign -- is inclined to do.

Kaine's a devout Catholic who cherishes the "seamless garment" pro-life arguments of the late Joseph Cardinal Bernardin, who as Roman Catholic Archbishop of Chicago advocated for the defense of all human life as part of a broad social and economic justice ethic.

Unlike Obama, who is a supporter of capital punishment, Kaine has a long record of speaking and acting in opposition to the the death penalty. He has presided over executions as governor -- explaining that, as a lawyer, he accepts even laws that go against his personal faith -- but he has also vetoed five death penalty expansion bills since becoming governor. And in June of this year, he commuted the death sentence of Percy Levar Walton -- a Virginian convicted and sentenced to death for three murders -- to life in prison without parole. Testing showed that Walton had an I.Q. of 66 and may have lacked the cognitive skills to understand his crime and the punishment he faced, but that subtlety is unlikely to be highlighted in Republican attack ads.

In another deviation from Obama, Kaine expresses what he describes as a "faith-based opposition to abortion." The Virginian is strongly opposed to late-term abortion and is involved with the group Democrats For Life of America, an organization that embraces many of the values outlined by Joseph Cardinal Bernardin. While some Democrats like to fantasize that an Obama-Kaine ticket might attract votes from anti-abortion social conservatives, it could also alienate – or, at least, unsettle -- feminists who backed Hillary Clinton and have yet to fully embrace Obama's candidacy.

Finally, Kaine has never served in the U.S. House or Senate, meaning that an Obama-Kaine ticket would have a combined three years of federal experience, no military record and limited long-term standing on the foreign-policy front.

So why is there so much talk about the prospect of an Obama-Kaine ticket?

Why are Obama aides feeding the fire? Why is Kaine stoking it?

Simple.

Kaine, a passionate proponent of racial justice throughout his adult life and a genuine believer in the prospect of "change we can believe in," was among the first prominent officials in the country to back Obama. And, as governor, he worked hard and smart to prevent Clinton from gaining ground in Virginia's February primary.

Obama owes Kaine. And senator from Illinois genuinely likes the governor.

There is a very real chance that Kaine -- who is term limited and who is unlikely to have a shot at a U.S. Senate seat anytime soon -- will end up in an Obama administration. And there is every reason to believe that Kaine could obtain a high-ranking spot. Indeed, with his extensive legal experience in a variety of relevant areas, he is a very attractive prospect for attorney general.

But there's a stature gap. Most Americans haven't heard of Kaine.

So for the next week or so, he will be much talked about as a vice presidential prospect.

That will garner Obama good headlines in Virginia, and it will make Kaine a national persona.

Ultimately, Obama is likely to select a running-mate with more federal and foreign experience.

But the talk of an Obama-Kaine ticket will have served both Obama and Kaine -- not to mention the administration in which the two men may yet serve together.

Comments (70)

1. I was wondering if Obama had thought about Richardson for VP. His name sounds "White" and he speaks Spanish and Frenc and is "older' and has international experience. Biden is good on experience, but he can go a little "off" when he gets going on a subject. I don't know whether we "need" New Mexico, but Hispanic would help.

   Posted by BTENCK at 07/30/2008 @ 8:53pm

2. >>>Finally, Kaine has never served in the U.S. House or Senate, meaning that an Obama-Kaine ticket would have a combined three years of federal experience, no military record and limited long-term standing on the foreign-policy front.<<<

   Kaine is very high on the short list, but like many of the candidates on the list, he highlights Obama's lack of "relative" foreign policy experience in a race against McCain.

   This can be overcome by announcing key cabinet picks early like Secs. of Defense and State at the same time as the VP is announced; but if you are going to do that, then you might as well pick Kathleen Sebelius who will give you a lot more than Kaine by energizing women nationwide, and who could influence border states to Kansas like Colorado and Missouri.

   Virginia shows a slight Obama lead to a tie in the polls right now, depending on the poll, and Obama may well win the state without Kaine on the ticket. But Obama can win without Virginia, Pennsalvania, Missouri, Florida and Ohio (previous battleground states) if he wins Michigan, Minnisota, Iowa and Colorado (or New Mexico), states where he currently has a large lead, and simply holds onto the solid and serious blue states.

   Like Nichols said, a cabinet pick would be more likely for Kaine, especially a spot where his pro-life views would not have much affect on policy.

   Posted by Metteyya at 07/30/2008 @ 9:21pm

3. If You Want A Recession, Vote For Obama

   Michael Boskin, writing in this morning's Wall Street Journal calls "Obamanomics" a "recipe for recession." Obama's tax policies are extreme to a degree we have not seen in this country in a long time:

   The top 35% marginal income tax rate rises to 39.6%; adding the state income tax, the Medicare tax, the effect of the deduction phase-out and Mr. Obama's new Social Security tax (of up to 12.4%) increases the total combined marginal tax rate on additional labor earnings (or small business income) from 44.6% to a whopping 62.8%. People respond to what they get to keep after tax, which the Obama plan reduces from 55.4 cents on the dollar to 37.2 cents -- a reduction of one-third in the after-tax wage!

   As Boskin points out, with a Democratic Congress writing tax legislation things could get even worse:

   On economic policy, the president proposes and Congress disposes, so presidents often wind up getting the favorite policy of powerful senators or congressmen. Thus, while Mr. Obama also proposes an alternative minimum tax (AMT) patch, he could instead wind up with the permanent abolition plan for the AMT proposed by the Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charlie Rangel (D., N.Y.) -- a 4.6% additional hike in the marginal rate with no deductibility of state income taxes. Marginal tax rates would then approach 70%, levels not seen since the 1970s and among the highest in the world. The after-tax return to work -- the take-home wage for more time or effort -- would be cut by more than 40%.

   That would, obviously, devastate the economy. Worse, it is unfair. It is simply immoral for the state to confiscate 70% of anyone's income. It would be deeply ironic if, at a time when the rest of the world is moving toward greater freedom in the form of lower tax rates, the United States were to regress to the stultifying statism of the 1970s. Yet that is exactly what Barack Obama promises.

   A vote for Obama is a sure vote for a recession. Watch the stock market over the next few months track the polls. The higher Obama goes, the lower the stock market will run as it prices in the inevitable hard times that Obama's policies promise. Conversely, the market will rise as McCain's fortunes improve.

   Posted by pontificus at 07/30/2008 @ 10:56pm

4. It seems possible that the fly in the ointment was Bill Clinton himself.

   Posted by Zero at 07/30/2008 @ 10:37pm

   ah, the white house years.....

   Posted by frosty zoom at 07/30/2008 @ 11:21pm

5. would add sizzle to the already sizzling media wattage of the Obama campaign.

   Posted by Zero at 07/30/2008 @ 10:41pm

   i've got the perfect pick:

   http://sizzlebills.com/

   Posted by frosty zoom at 07/30/2008 @ 11:26pm

6. Posted by pontificus at 07/30/2008 @ 10:56pm

   yeah, the heck with taxes!

   everybody knows the best way to stay out of a recession is to borrow!

   http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/recession-bar-chart.jpg

   PRINT AWAY!

   hey publicoid, czech this out:

   http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/blogphotos/Blog_Job_Growth_Since_1921.g if

   if they were horses.........

   Posted by frosty zoom at 07/30/2008 @ 11:31pm

7. Blog_Job_Growth_Since_1921.gif

   Posted by frosty zoom at 07/30/2008 @ 11:31pm

8. Conversely, the market will rise as McCain's fortunes improve.

   Posted by pontificus at 07/30/2008 @ 10:56pm

   ••• headline •••

   Obama's Small Spending Limits, Big Tax Cuts May Worsen Deficit:

   July 29 (Bloomberg) :

   ••• 5th paragraph! ••••

   The shortfalls Obama would produce don't approach the size of the deficits John McCain's budget threatens to bring. THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE'S TAX CUTS ALONE WOULD INCREASE THE DEBT BY $5 TRILLION BY 2018, COMPARED WITH $3.4 TRILLION FOR OBAMA, SAYS THE TAX POLICY CENTER, ANOTHER NONPARTISAN GROUP.

   Posted by frosty zoom at 07/30/2008 @ 11:35pm

9. There's one where men cheat on their cancer-stricken wives and one where men do not cheat on their cancer-stricken wives.

   Posted by RedRiver_. at 07/30/2008 @ 11:06pm

   what about the ones that cheat on their accidented, overweight wives?

   Posted by frosty zoom at 07/30/2008 @ 11:37pm

10. "Gingrich's first marriage ended after he discussed the details of the divorce with his wife while she was recovering from cancer surgery. He married again in 1981 and was divorced in 2000, when he married the young congressional aide with whom he had the affair."

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/30/2008 @ 11:39pm

11. "So, will religious voters forgive Gingrich? Dobson seemed inclined to think so.

    "I think it's really important and will be for many of our listeners to know your responses to that point of disappointment back there someplace, and I really appreciate your willingness to do so," Dobson told Gingrich."

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/30/2008 @ 11:40pm

12. i do, however, agree with you.

    cheating on one's spouse in high inadvisable.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/30/2008 @ 11:41pm

13. if only "w" had cheated on his wife in 2002, god only knows how many lives could have been saved ...

    Posted by Zero at 07/30/2008 @ 11:50pm

    ¿President Cheney?

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 12:22am

14. personally, i really wish we would just leave everyone's romantic lives out of it

    Posted by Zero at 07/30/2008 @ 11:50pm

    of course.

    i succumbed to rio's inanity.

    thought i'd send him back to his spider hole with a little flingbackmud.

    i actually felt kinda creeped out doing it.

    must be taxing to do that full time, à la o'reilly.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 12:27am

15. Rice'a'Roni

    Posted by Zero at 07/31/2008 @ 12:26am

    the armenian treat!

    mmmmm. salt.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93067862

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 12:30am

16. who, brave river?

    Posted by Zero at 07/31/2008 @ 12:32am

    actually, "bravo" is a false cognate.

    i'd translate bravo more as "fierce" or "indomitable"

    just having a j.r. moment.

    beware the false cognate.

    te puedes quedar decepcionado.....

    paz.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 12:45am

17. ravings?

    isn't that what we all do?

    you want sanity, go to the tmz blog.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 12:51am

18. always look on the bright side of life,

    phwee hoo, phwee hoob hubba hee.

    (how does one transcribe whistling?)

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 01:01am

19. It doesn't matter who Obama picks as VP. If he were smart, he'd pick Hillary but it looks like he,s not very smart, politically anyway. Naming Hillary would give him a twenty point bump that Mccain would never catch up to. Any other pick will be BORING as Obama sucks all the oxygen out of the room. Posted by frankgrits at 07/30/2008 @ 10:01pm

    So transparent....

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/31/2008 @ 02:01am

20. Posted by Zero at 07/31/2008 @ 01:52am

    the human condition is better now than it ever has been.

    well, for most of us.

    most of us just aren't at war right now. and most of us are living longer.

    obviously, it <i>could</i> get worse,

    but i don't think so.

    like a graph of global temperatures that goes up and down, nonetheless getting higher as a general trend,

    so too, improves the human condition.......

    oh, shit!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 02:17am

21. @#$@ing canucks

    Posted by Zero at 07/31/2008 @ 01:52am

    hey there, neighbour.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 02:18am

22. "If Senator John McCain is elected the next U.S. President, the troops will withdraw to demonstrate the success of the Republican Party's ‘surge' strategy. If Barack Obama happens to the next President, he will withdraw forces to demonstrate the credibility of his election promises. A movement towards that end has already been initiated and will be completely unrelated to the ‘situation on the ground'. "

    Madhavi Bhasin at juancole.com

    ta da!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 02:38am

23. "The U.S. can project whatever ‘on the ground situation' that suits its pre-determined policies. Occupation or withdrawal is a matter of political convenience and barely related to real strategic concerns. The invasion proved that and so will the withdrawal of forces from Iraq. "

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 02:42am

24. I would like the choice of Bill Richardson for V.P. except for one problem -- all McCain's campaign would have to do is play Richardson's comments about the west needing to tap in to Great Lakes water and Obama can kiss off any chance of carrying Wisconsin and Michigan. Actually, McCain wouldn't even need an ad replaying this footage. It's the only thing people up here really know about Richardson and they hate him for it.

    Posted by cheesehead at 07/31/2008 @ 06:01am

25. Gotta love PONTI's desperation...

    we're IN a recession, but if we elect Obama he'll put us into a ...what?...a double super-duper recession, PONTI????

    Posted by Maskdelta at 07/31/2008 @ 08:47am

26. Posted by marybretbrad at 07/31/2008 @ 08:57am

    Yes, Darin, it's not "technically" a recession...

    more of a..."mental recession"...and those complaining are a bunch of "whiners"!

    (I'd watch that talk, good way to get let go from the McCain Campaign...heheh)

    Posted by Maskdelta at 07/31/2008 @ 09:04am

27. Of course THIS guy disagrees with you too...

    WASHINGTON, April 14 2008 (UPI) --

    Presumptive Republican presidential nominee John McCain said Monday the United States economy is in recession and there's "plenty of … blame to go around."

    At a forum in Washington, McCain said Americans are worried about their jobs and their mortgages, and something must be done to help them, the Capitol Hill newspaper The Hill reported.

    "I think that there's plenty of that blame to go around, including very greedy people that happen to be in Wall Street today ... like the CEO (chief executive officer) of Bear Stearns (NYSE:BSC-E), who decided the day before he was bailed out by the federal government to cash in millions of dollars worth of stock," McCain said.

    McCain said he also blames President Bush and Congress, and called for Wall Street to be held more accountable.

    Posted by Maskdelta at 07/31/2008 @ 09:06am

28. Kaine doesn't have stature for AG?

    You mean, like Gonzales or his predecessor had? Or Janet Reno or her successor had?

    Or maybe one of Reagan's AGs or Carter's, who both appointed their personal attorneys?

    You're joking, you've got to go back past Ramsey Clark to RFK to find an AG known to the wider public before appointment.

    Stature is not a political requirement for AG.

    Posted by sloper at 07/31/2008 @ 09:48am

29. Posted by marybretbrad at 07/31/2008 @ 08:53am

    Or there's McCain. The man who leaves his wife for a younger, richer version.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/31/2008 @ 11:08am

30. "Back in the good ol' days of Jimmy Carter, you had to wait in line with your car idling for 20 minutes to fill your car with gas. A home loan cost you 15% annual interest while inflation was unemployment were both in double digits."

    All thanks to paying the Vietnam war debt which was starting to fall due, none of it thanks to Carter, all of it thanks to LBJ, Nixon & the unelected Ford.

    Exactly what's going to happen as we start to really pay for the Iraq invasion & occupation, all thanks to CheneyBush. The current bad times will become worse times, all of this the CheneyBush GOP legacy.

    Posted by sloper at 07/31/2008 @ 11:11am

31. I'd like your opinion on Richard Clarke as the ideal VP.

    From a strategic perspective you can't do much better : - top notch security and foreign policy credentials - defends Obama like a bulldog - fills a void that appeals directly to Republicans and Independents as a balance to Obama's 'softer' image - won't be interested or likely to even try for a run in 2016 - and is both literally and figuratively a real 'Dick', of the good sort.

    Posted by hazmaq at 07/31/2008 @ 11:12am

32. But you're right, today's situation is pure hell.

    Posted by marybretbrad at 07/31/2008

    not as obvious, perhaps, but far more volatile.

    congress has "reset" the debt "ceiling" (wouldn't it be more like a floor?)

    to 10.6 trillion dollaritos.

    btw if you (we) had listened to mr. carter about energy (imagine a 45 mpg car -- scandalous!!!), you (we) wouldn't be in such a precarious spot right now.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 11:26am

33. The current financial unpleasantness does not meet the definition of a recession. Q1 and Q2 had disappointing but non-negative growth.

    Posted by marybretbrad at 07/31/2008

    RRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!

    DON'T YOU SEE THE FED IS PROPPING UP THE ECONOMY WITH RUBBER CREDIT UNTIL THE ELECTION IS OVER????????????

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 11:29am

34. McCain said he also blames President Bush and Congress, and called for Wall Street to be held more accountable.

    Posted by Maskdelta at 07/31/2008 @ 09:06am

    mccain's opinion is worthless.

    he has no idea.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 11:30am

35. Stature is not a political requirement for AG.

    Posted by sloper at 07/31/2008 @ 09:48am

    nor are honesty, integrity and fairness.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 11:31am

36. Posted by marybretbrad at 07/31/2008

    GGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!

    THE FED IS BLINDING YOU!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 11:33am

37. Posted by marybretbrad at 07/31/2008 @ 10:47am

    Darin, are you saying that in addition to not knowing if we are or are not in a recession....

    John McCain doesn't know what "torture" is?!?!??!!?

    heheh

    Posted by Maskdelta at 07/31/2008 @ 11:45am

38. Even if McCave drooled on camera and spoke to imaginary people, new con repubs would still vote for him. Because there not really voting for him. There pretty much like what FrGr has become, a defender of corporate dic'tatorship.

    And as for VP, all Obama has to do-- is make Al Gore an offer he can't refuse...

    Posted by hsuBfools at 07/31/2008 @ 11:58am

39. er, (ha, forgot the y') 'they're' not really voting for him. 'They're' pretty much like what FrGr has become, a defender of corporate dic'tatorship.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 07/31/2008 @ 12:01pm

40. And as for VP, all Obama has to do-- is make Al Gore an offer he can't refuse...

    Posted by hsuBfools at 07/31/2008 @ 11:58am

    you mean let gore be prez?

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 12:21pm

41. you mean let gore be prez?----Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 12:21pm

    Good memory, FROST.

    Remember HSUB's EARLIER idea (while the primaries were still going) of Obama announcing that he was going to make Gore his Veep....defeat Hillary handily...and then announce he was going to step down and let Gore become the top of the ticket and Obama take Veep.

    This was shortly after the "Gore going to announce he's running in Ocober 2007" prediction fell through...

    just before his LATEST prediction that "Obama will pick Gore as Veep and Gore will accept and they're having double-plusgood secret conversations about it as we speak and this talk of Sebelius, Kaine, or ANYBODY is just a smoke screan!"

    heheh

    Posted by Maskdelta at 07/31/2008 @ 12:26pm

42. Obama announcing that he was going to make Gore his Veep...step down and let Gore become the top of the ticket and Obama take Veep.

    Posted by Maskdelta at 07/31/2008 @ 12:26pm

    No, you're getting different scenarios mixed-up. I said there was all the indications that there'd be a brokered convention. As you recall there were quite a few others that were stating similar scenarios. One scenario stated that Obama could move past Billary with an announcement that he and Al were the ticket. Another scenario was that neither Billary or Barack would get it in the 1st ballot at the convention and then someone would bring Al into it and it be like the 3rd ballot that Al would get it. Considering we haven't gotten to the convention yet and Obama hasn't picked a VP... Scenarios are all anyones got.

    As far as Al Gore announcing he's running for president, yup, I gots to admit that that is one longer and longer shot, but it is one very persistent feeling.

    And as far as Obama making Al an offer Al can't refuse, I meant as far as the extent of responsibilities and power Barack was willing to offer Al as VP to sweeten the pot. Most have to agree if Barack could get Al on his ticket it would be a major plus.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 07/31/2008 @ 1:33pm

43. As far as Al Gore announcing he's running for president, yup, I gots to admit that that is one longer and longer shot, but it is one very persistent feeling.----Posted by hsuBfools at 07/31/2008 @ 1:33pm

    "is one PERSISTANT feeling"...of what?

    Gore running as an Independent against Obama AND McCain?

    Puh-leeeeeeeze don't tell me you think that's possible too!

    Posted by Maskdelta at 07/31/2008 @ 2:01pm

44. Posted by marybretbrad at 07/31/2008 @ 2:46pm

    Posted by marybretbrad at 07/31/2008 @ 2:48pm

    Soooooooo, uh....any second now, John McCain will be rushing to the podium to tell us "My friends, there is no recession. Things are a little slow, but we've got solid 1.9% growth. No need to panic and start getting into a 'mental state' or whining!"

    Right?

    Posted by Maskdelta at 07/31/2008 @ 2:54pm

45. I don't think I'd make a very good politician. Posted by marybretbrad at 07/31/2008 @ 3:01pm

    Generally you don't want to curse at your constituents.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/31/2008 @ 3:20pm

46. Still, the second-quarter rebound wasn't as robust as economists had hoped; they were forecasting growth at a 2.4 percent pace.

    Posted by marybretbrad at 07/31/2008

    that federal reserve viagara's gonna wear off soon......

    maybe say in december or january?

    yeah, january.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 3:43pm

47. How did Hayes report this? With the headline that says, "Now They're Calling Him Gay"

    Posted by marybretbrad at 07/31/2008 @ 2:59pm

    that's so fussy of you.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 3:44pm

48. "Team America"

    Posted by marybretbrad at 07/31/2008

    i watch about 23 seconds.

    so much violence.

    i took a long walk and smelt the night.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 3:46pm

49. Bible Camp.

    Posted by marybretbrad at 07/31/2008 @ 3:13pm

    perhaps you should have taken him to meet god, instead.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 3:47pm

50. "is one PERSISTANT feeling"...of what?

    Gore running as an Independent against Obama AND McCain?

    Posted by Maskdelta at 07/31/2008 @ 2:01pm

    Oh ok Delta, you're like getting all frantic again and hearing voices or something; like answering your own questions.

    I swear you sometimes act just like a new con repub upon the mere mention of Al Gore-- you get a little insane there. Take your meds.

    So clearly I've spoken of Al Gore being the best pick for president-- however my last few 10-20 posts on the subject have been about Al being Obama's VP pick, except when recalling when I thought for sure he was going to announce. But if you ask me do I feel he's still going to end up in the WH again, sure. And as I mentioned before, don't know how, don't know when. It's a feeling.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 07/31/2008 @ 3:48pm

51. The obnoxiousness aside, I think Mask's point is that, your "feeling" has a scientific name. It's called wishful thinking. Predictions based on wishful thinking have an accuracy rate of about 0.0%. Posted by marybretbrad at 07/31/2008 @ 4:40pm

    That's actually not true. Guessing has an accuracy rate an accuracy rate above 0.0.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/31/2008 @ 4:58pm

52. Posted by marybretbrad at 07/31/2008 @ 4:40pm

    Not taking exact timing into account, I've been pretty accurate if one looks at the facts of 1. hsuB's AG Frito G. getting the boot when some here said that he would never get let go and I said he would. And both 2. Al Gore's name has been continually brought up in one of the exec posts for the last 3 years, which of course proceeds to Al's push-back to the idea 1-2 times a month; 3. hsuB/cHeney impeachment is still in the news and talk of no statutes of limitations on investigation/prosecution ala projected increase of congressional dems, tends to lean heavy %-wise on my 'wishful thinking', if that's what you want to call it, countering the argument that it'll 'never' happen. Well, considering that 'never' is a rather long long time.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 07/31/2008 @ 5:15pm

53. "While some Democrats like to fantasize that an Obama-Kaine ticket might attract votes from anti-abortion social conservatives, it could also alienate – or, at least, unsettle -- feminists who backed Hillary Clinton and have yet to fully embrace Obama's candidacy."

    Perhaps more important than the Hillary supporters, are the Obama supporters who would not vote for an opponent of abortion choice. The Democratic Party has been failing its supporters on many progressive issues for a long time, but has resolutely stuck by its support of abortion choice.

    If Obama becomes the first Democratic national candidate to abandon unqualified support for women's reproductive freedom there could well be an irreparable fracture of the Democratic Party along gender lines; i.e., an even more serious fracture than the one that has resulted from the Obama-Clinton primary race. If Obama picks Kaine, I believe he will find more than just Hillary supporters outraged enough to oppose his nomination and election.

    Posted by Nicki at 07/31/2008 @ 5:47pm

54. "While some Democrats like to fantasize that an Obama-Kaine ticket might attract votes from anti-abortion social conservatives, it could also alienate – or, at least, unsettle -- feminists who backed Hillary Clinton and have yet to fully embrace Obama's candidacy."

    Perhaps more important than the Hillary supporters, are the Obama supporters who would not vote for an opponent of abortion choice. The Democratic Party has been failing its supporters on many progressive issues for a long time, but has resolutely stuck by its support of abortion choice.

    If Obama becomes the first Democratic national candidate to abandon unqualified support for women's reproductive freedom there could well be an irreparable fracture of the Democratic Party along gender lines; i.e., an even more serious fracture than the one that has resulted from the Obama-Clinton primary race. If Obama picks Kaine, I believe he will find more than just Hillary supporters outraged enough to oppose his nomination and election.

    Posted by Nicki at 07/31/2008 @ 5:47pm

55. I dont get what the problem is with TIm Kaine he needs CEO experience because if its two senators and McCain picks a governnor you can bet he is going to point out (especially since the economy will be front and center) that they have no CEO experience between them.

    If he is going to pick a senator he needs to go for one with a lot of experience. I dont believe for a second that Hilary is a good pick. Hilary to me is like fools gold. It looks good because they both had about 18 million voters but the danger in that is you likely end up picking up the same amount that you will lose because independents will go to McCain and young people likely wont feel too motivated since to them he caved and pick someone that represent the same old politics another Clinton.

    He is better off with Tim Kaine or some other governor.

    Carol

    Posted by harriscrl3 at 07/31/2008 @ 7:32pm

56. Al Gore, Vet, Rep., Sen., VP, won majority of popular vote for pres., successful CEO, winner of every other award, got the youth vote, independent vote, some repub vote, high favorability polls, etc.; come-on Barack--- sweeten the pot.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 07/31/2008 @ 8:38pm

57. Posted by hsuBfools at 07/31/2008 @ 5:15pm

    Only to belabor the point just a little more, I also predicted Ruinsfeld, lIbby and rOve getting let go. So one could say that my 'feelings' are batting close to 500-ish.

    True, still got to get Al back in to the exec office and hsuB/cHeney impeached or at least tried and convicted. But who really ever bats 1000... ?

    Posted by hsuBfools at 07/31/2008 @ 8:53pm

58. http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/7/31/19442/3123

    Posted by hsuBfools at 07/31/2008 @ 9:54pm

59. al gore is so clinton.......

    next.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 10:40pm

60. here ya go, darin:

    "The latest figure on U.S. GDP is a case in point. According to Mr. Porter, GDP is not a fail-safe measure of economic health. In the case of the United States, the figure defies logic because of falling employment levels and the devastation of the housing market. All that is supporting GDP growth is a stimulus package, defence spending and strong exports."

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 11:54pm

61. al gore is so clinton.......

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 10:40pm |

    Yeah, I really liked that part about how smart Al was to use Bill to campaign for him just like Hillary did. She really showed Al how to do it. Sure liked the way she got Al to campaign for her too.

    Yeah, Al is sooo Clinton.

    BWAHahahahah... SSssuuuurrrrre.

    Next.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/01/2008 @ 12:11am

62. Posted by Maskdelta at 07/31/2008 @ 08:47am

    "we're IN a recession, but if we elect Obama he'll put us into a ...what?...a double super-duper recession, PONTI????"

    No, MASK, we're not in a recession. A recession is defined as two straight quarters of negative economic growth. So far, we haven't had one.

    I know I'm boring you with all these facts.

    So I'll grant that we're in a kind of recession here at the Nation. A cognitive recession, if you will. For the last 60 years, I would say.

    Posted by pontificus at 08/01/2008 @ 12:15am

63. Posted by frosty zoom at 07/31/2008 @ 3:46pm

    "i took a long walk and smelt the night."

    Fall in the country. Burning leaves, apple cider, hot pumpkin pie. Not long now.

    Posted by pontificus at 08/01/2008 @ 12:19am

64. oh, it smells good all year round.

    in the right locales, of course.

    so you can see environmental regulation has at least some olfactory benefits, n'est-ce pas?

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/01/2008 @ 01:20am

65. recession?

    wrestling with semantics is irrelevant.

    the mood is negative.

    nothing more be said.

    ha! you say.

    i say debt

    you say so?

    i say housing

    you say so?

    i say employment

    you say so?

    the price of oil is going down.

    the oilfueled factories are hydrocarbonically shipping fewer oil based widgets.

    the human machine is gearing down, and the fed won't take it's heavy foot off the gas pedal until after the election.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/01/2008 @ 01:28am

66. Another one for MASK's memory hole:

    DUDE, WHERE'S MY RECESSION? (CONT'D): GDP grew 1.9% last quarter. "Consumers boosted their spending at a 1.5 percent pace in the second quarter. That was up from a 0.9 percent growth rate in the first quarter and marked the best showing since the third quarter of 2007 when the economy was still performing strongly despite the severe housing slump."

    Posted by pontificus at 08/01/2008 @ 06:52am

67. Posted by frosty zoom at 08/01/2008 @ 01:28am

    "recession?

    wrestling with semantics is irrelevant.

    the mood is negative.

    nothing more be said."

    Beautiful. So, I shouldn't confuse you with the facts, you've got you're feelings to guide you. And you're not feeling good, so we're in a recession?

    Posted by pontificus at 08/01/2008 @ 06:57am

68. Posted by marybretbrad at 08/01/2008 @ 08:49am

    MaBrBr, the problem is is that your idea of "in the middle" is the middle of 'the far right' that actually think jokes are the content of issues.

    And as far as celebrity, neither Obama or Gore are celebrities-- they're ROCK STARS. "That's the difference between Jessica Simpson and Bono."

    Come on get out of the infatuation with the blinding dic'tatorship box you're in and smell some coffee out in the real world.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 08/01/2008 @ 09:50am

69. Beautiful. So, I shouldn't confuse you with the facts, you've got you're feelings to guide you. And you're not feeling good, so we're in a recession?

    Posted by pontificus at 08/01/2008 @ 06:57am

    ha! you say.

    i say debt

    you say so?

    i say housing

    you say so?

    i say employment

    you say so?

    the price of oil is going down.

    the oilfueled factories are hydrocarbonically shipping fewer oil based widgets.

    the human machine is gearing down, and the fed won't take it's heavy foot off the gas pedal until after the election.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/01/2008 @ 11:57am

70. . "Consumers boosted their spending at a 1.5 percent pace in the second quarter."

    Posted by pontificus at 08/01/2008 @ 06:52am

    So... with food prices up by 1.7 percent, I guess we should surmise... People are eating less?

    Posted by Malcontent at 08/01/2008 @ 5:18pm