Students for Hillary, er, McCain (or McKinney)

It is no secret that Barack Obama's campaign is on edge about the prospect of losing the support of Democrats who were enthusiastic about the candidacy of Hillary Clinton.

A few here or there are not a concern.

But if leading Clinton backers start to join Connecticut Senator Joe Lieberman's "Citizens for McCain" campaign to attract crossover votes for the Republican nominee, that could be a serious matter.

So, is the co-chair of a student group that backed the New York senator's in the Iowa caucus campaign of last winter a "leading Clinton backer"?

Maybe not.

But the Obama camp will not be wanting to see too many more letters like the one that went out this week from the co-chair of the University of Iowa chapter of Students for Hillary Clinton.

Cody Eliff, the co-chair in question, wrote:

Fellow Hillary supporters...

- Cody and Nikki

Within hours of when Eliff hit the send key on his computer, the letter was a viral phenomenon on the web. And Obama backers were scrambling to respond.

University of Iowa Democrats president Luke Oglesbee quickly dispatched an email announcing that: "The University of Iowa Democrats and College and Young Democrats of Iowa regret the decision of Cody Eliff and Nikki Dziuban to endorse John McCain's candidacy for President of the United States. The last thing our country needs is another 4 years of broken promises and failed policies given to us by George Bush and John McCain. As our party begins to unite after a historic and exciting contest, we urge all young and collegiate supporters of Senator Clinton to follow her steadfast lead and join us in electing Barack Obama our 44th President this November."

Does it really matter if some diehard Clintonistas stir up trouble for Obama in Iowa?

Well, consider this: While Iowa is best known as the first-caucus state where Obama and Clinton faced off in January, the November race between Democratic nominee Obama and Republican nominee McCain could be a close one in this battleground state.

In 2000, Democrat Al Gore beat Republican George Bush in Iowa by 4,144 votes -- a margin of 0.31 percent, the fourth closest result in the country after Florida, New Mexico and Wisconsin.

In 2004, Republican Bush beat Democrat John Kerry in Iowa by 10,059 votes -- a margin of 0.67 percent, the second closest result after Wisconsin.

So, yes, any slippage in Iowa is a concern.

And any broader pattern of movement from the Clinton camp to McCain, McKinney or -- most likely -- stay-at-home status is something Barack Obama and his team will have to be watching for and, if they are smart, doing everything in their power to avert.

Comments (79)

1. Knowing some Clinton supporters who happen to be women in my area, I can say that they are strong, independent & yes, FREEDOM loving people. Thinking that these women are going to vote for anyone other than Barack Obama, is a serious mistake. Much talk is given to community organization. These women personify that concept. Courage is contagious. Welcome aboard.

   Posted by Sorelish at 06/12/2008 @ 10:24pm

2. As far as I can tell from Nichols' post, this letter represents the views of precisely two stupid and very childish individuals who are prepared to cut off their nose to spite their face. I'm not quaking in my boots.

   Posted by oisin at 06/12/2008 @ 10:40pm

3. "But the Obama camp will not be wanting to be seeing..."

   Not be wanting to be seeing? That's such poor grammar i had to create an account.

   Though while i'm here:

   This whole "Hillary supporters for McCain" is the silliest movement i've seen to date. Not just in that exemplifies the concept of crybaby more than anything i thought grown adults were capable of, or that the "i'll teach them a lesson" completely goes against the way a partisan republic works, but because-- and here's the big one-- such an insignificant Ron Paul in 08-esque movement is getting so much blog love! I've had enough of reading interviews with clueless women or letters from bored kids without a grasp on how politics works or-- what's worse-- the stuff that's actually at risk here. This silly concept of "my party has abandoned me" is so ridiculous i can't bear it. I know it hurts, kiddies, but the way an election works is this: One candidate is elected, one (a few, actually) don't. That's what happened here. "Your party" didn't abandon you-- what happened here is that your peers voted otherwise. I'm sorry your masked racism/blind feminism doesn't allow you to realize that.

   Thankfully, you guys are too few in numbers to create much more than a blip, let alone a difference.

   -Carlos

   Posted by CarlosFromPhilly at 06/12/2008 @ 11:28pm

4. I'll be honest: when this whole thing started I thought for sure Obama was going to be a VP nominee if anything. Then Her Highness started stumbling, chose what turned out to be a flawed stategy, and Obama came out of nowhere. He learned the rules of the system ultimately better than she did, and he came out on top. It really hurts that they buy into the old Clinton bitterness lines (hell I half-expected to see somewhere in the letter, "Well, she deserved it more!") and are just re-dredging old wounds that at this point only serve to help Grandpa. But if they want to be in the Harriet Christian faction, they need to examne Grandpa's record VERY carefully, then look at their decision to support McKinney (which I can only agree with to get the Green Party more legitimacy), and then decide if their letter is a wise decision or simple anger gone unchecked.

   Posted by yutsano at 06/12/2008 @ 11:32pm

5. RE: Students ...

   I wish Hillary run as an independent and she could still win.

   Posted by HelenDAO at 06/12/2008 @ 11:35pm

6. One more funny tidbit for all of you keeping count:

   Isn't it convenient that Obama goes from an inept candidate one moment to part of a "DREAM TICKET" the moment Hillary is named VP?

   If they only had a brain...

   Posted by CarlosFromPhilly at 06/12/2008 @ 11:43pm

7. We should not be surprised that there are legions of self-pitying, self-pleasuring Hillary diehards who can't stand the fact that Barack Obama outclassed and outsmarted her every step of the way.

   Their stammerings and their little hissy fits won't change the fact that Obama is going to clobber McCain in the fall.

   Unfortunately, publications like The Nation fuel the uncontrollable rage in some people to shout at every opportune moment, and with the most contemptible self-indulgence, "Sexism! Misogyny! Sexism! Misogyny!"

   Posted by KSP556 at 06/13/2008 @ 12:09am

8. I wish Hillary run as an independent and she could still win.

   Posted by HelenDAO at 06/12/2008

   Nope. Her and Obama would split the vote and they would both lose. Anyone with half a brain could see that.

   Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/13/2008 @ 01:05am

9. I love that they were naming Obama supporters cultists when Obama supporters would never vote ENTIRELY against their beliefs to support the other candidate just because theirs lost. I notice they don't bother to talk about Clinton HERSELF calling Obama boy.

   Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/13/2008 @ 01:07am

10. They're all cunts: McCain, Clinton, and especially the two student cunts from Iowa with their stupid whiny letter.

    Hillary and her people knew months ago that they would not win the nomination yet they stubbornly refused to exit with any real dignity, knowingly damaging the democratic party's chances for victory in November.

    Posted by MATTMAN at 06/13/2008 @ 01:10am

11. McKinney is not a cunt; in fact she has a very cool last name.

    Posted by MATTMAN at 06/13/2008 @ 01:13am

12. "(which I can only agree with to get the Green Party more legitimacy)"

    Yuts -- Why doesn't the Green Party take on more seats in congress to legitimize themselves before making symbolic efforts at the presidency, the significance of which are only actualized negatively to anyone left of center when they may or may not sway an election in favor of the right?

    Sorry for the runon sentence there.

    Posted by MATTMAN at 06/13/2008 @ 01:20am

13. In order to automatically qualify for the ballot rather than having to go through the petitioning process in the various states a party must get a certain percentage of the vote. This is why Ralph Nader will not appear on the ballot in all fifty states (McKinney might be but don't quote me on that). So they get enough votes to be considered a party and then they can establish themselves into possible Congressional seats. I sincerely hope it happens, I think the two big parties could use a little pressure on their wings, it will make them actually fight for their positions and votes.

    Posted by yutsano at 06/13/2008 @ 02:16am

14. This is simply an oppo stunt from the GOP slime machine. Expect many many more.

    Posted by sloper at 06/13/2008 @ 02:28am

15. Ah... the Clintonistasisms just keep boiling over... but will we let them extinguish the bright fiery flames of American freedom?

    Not a chance.

    Luke Oglesbee's voice of reason is most appreciated.

    Posted by ttr at 06/13/2008 @ 02:30am

16. Well, to take this a step further: I insist that Nader, McKinney and Sen. Clinton be included in all debates and given equal shares of prime time news with Obama and McCain. Anything less would be undemocratic, and we wouldn't want that, would we? And actually, why not include Lydon Larouche in the debates. Or, if Obama and McCain are such fools that they won't include Nader, McKinney, Clinton, and Larouche in their debates, then I'm sure the networkds will create special counter-debates just for them. This is America you know.

    Posted by sabatia at 06/13/2008 @ 07:32am

17. I have no problem having Nader and McKinney on stage with Obama and McCain for the presidential debates.

    However, Hillary Clinton was ousted in the primaries, and unless she registers to be an independent - highly unlikely - she should be content to look on from the sidelines.

    I know this irks diehard Clinton fans, but at some point they're going to have to grow up.

    Posted by KSP556 at 06/13/2008 @ 07:59am

18. I think that patriotic Americans should all donate to the Nader and McKinney campaigns and demand that they be included in the debates.

    Posted by lvliberty1

    you forgot bobby barr!

    heheh

    Posted by frosty zoom at 06/13/2008 @ 08:49am

19. "Does it really matter if some diehard Clintonistas stir up trouble for Obama in Iowa?"

    WE've only got ONE here (less the "Yeah, yeah, maybe THAT'll win it for us" on the Right like LVLIB and MARYBRET).

    It adds up to a piffle...especially with yesterday's Supreme Court ruling of 5-4 on habeus corpus. 'Lest anybody forget that a "President McCain" will get to pick 2 possibly THREE USSC LIFE-TIME APPOINTMENTS?!?!?!?

    Posted by Mask at 06/13/2008 @ 09:18am

20. There is one very serious false untruth in the letter from Pro-Hillary college students. No Obama campaign official has ever been recorded or even accused by Clinton of making sexist or disparaging statements about Hilary Clinton.

    To attribute all the really stupid comments on her - which actually came from pundits, the News Media and lunatic "citizens" anywhere else is disingenuous at best and deceitful at worst.

    No sane person that strongly supported Hillary Clinton - for being an intelligent, determined and smart politician - and a woman to boot, who also fully supported her platform of reforms and benefits for the USA - and which she has publicly stated in almost exactly same as those of Barak Obama - will vote for John McCain who represents the complete opposite in political philosophy and plan of action.

    I say to them - go vote for McCain, but when the USA "finally" implodes under any further disastrous Republican administration, they will not be able to make such stupid complaints as now.

    Posted by weeanderson at 06/13/2008 @ 09:24am

21. Over half... She won the popular vote.

    Posted by marybretbrad at 06/13/2008

    She DIDN'T win the popular vote. Stop lying.

    Hillary Clinton PLEDGED not to honor the unofficial primary contests of Florida and Michigan. None of the other major candidates honored those contests either. Obama's name wasn't even on the Michigan ballot.

    However, when it was clear to all the world that Hillary Clinton was going to finish in second place, she and her supporters whined, kicked, and screamed about "seating the MI & FL delegations," which in turn led to MAJOR concessions by the Obama campaign in the name of achieving party unity.

    No, Obama won the popular vote. And he won more states than Clinton.

    Posted by KSP556 at 06/13/2008 @ 09:33am

22. If you like Stephen Colbert, you'll LOVE this website. LOL was laughing my but off all day:

    www.realdealreport.com

    fake right wing news site

    Posted by cory714 at 06/13/2008 @ 09:56am

23. So, they are supporting McCain. I suppose there is an historic precedent for this. After all, Benito Mussolini was a socialist before his 180 degree about face lead him to found Italian facism. These women apparently know nothing about principle-only opportunism.

    Posted by bobforer at 06/13/2008 @ 10:04am

24. "These women apparently know nothing about principle-only opportunism."

    Exactly.

    Posted by KSP556 at 06/13/2008 @ 10:16am

25. BTW, notice the only ones egging them on are the right-wingers here....so desperate for SOME strategy that will win it for McCain...

    they'll cozy up to a tiny number of Hillary cultists (possibly even support them on the blogs with a few Repub posers, maybe???).

    Posted by Mask at 06/13/2008 @ 10:36am

26. The woman who called Hillary Clinton a "monster," Samantha Power, promptly resigned from the Obama Campaign.

    I don't recall anyone resigning from the Clinton campaign after commercials were run showing Obama with DARKER SKIN than he in fact has.

    Posted by KSP556 at 06/13/2008 @ 11:12am

27. You're dreaming, Gritsy.

    Obama is going to win in November.

    Clinton and her supporters are going to suffer more heartache and have to watch as Obama goes on to win re-election in 2012.

    It doesn't matter what the little wussy college students at some no-name Iowa university have to say, either.

    Posted by KSP556 at 06/13/2008 @ 11:28am

28. I have a really hard time believing that the media was harder on Clinton than Obama. All I heard on CNN, MSNBC, FOX, CBS, ABC, and NBC for over a month was reverand Wright, reverernd Wright, on and on, then there was some noise about Rezko. Associations with farahkan, then the dumb statements by Pflugel horn or whatever his name was. What did the media do to pick on Clinton? I remember the sniper fire comments, yeah that is about it.

    I don't remember the comments by Mathews or Olberman, they did not get much play. Unlike the racist comment by Ferraro, and that has been repeated by others. There is not truth behind those comments, Obama is a talented orator with good ideas, none of the other candidates were as skilled. Although, I personally don't think Hillary would be where she is know if she had not been married to Bill. It is hard to argue that her name recognition alone gave her a huge advantage, especially in FL and MI.

    Posted by Extraneous at 06/13/2008 @ 11:37am

29. No rational person can make statements like "Senator Obama was not nominated as we see it, but appointed by the Rules and Bylaws Committee of the DNC" or "We do not agree with him [McCain] on everything...". Everything? How about anything? These students were, apparently, committed to an individual (Clinton) rather than a set of policy positions or Democratic ideals. They are disappointed, as many Clinton supporters were, but punishing the nation for their personal disappointment is unacceptable. Thankfully, most Democrats are awake and united.

    Posted by Be Good at 06/13/2008 @ 11:39am

30. Sorry I don't do a good job proof reading.

    Posted by Extraneous at 06/13/2008 @ 11:39am

31. Frank,

    If she does that, takes the case to Court. Her political career as a democrat would be over! She would be completely guilty derailing any potential for the democrats to retake the white house in what is likely one of the most important elections in the past 30 years (about as far back as i can remember).

    But you can keep dreaming.

    Posted by Extraneous at 06/13/2008 @ 11:43am

32. Something to consider. Hillary has merely 'suspended' her campaign. There is nothing stopping her from taking the grievance that Cody and Nikki relate about the Michian rules decision to court. If Hillary really wanted to make waves, she could tie up the democratic nomination with a legitimate lawsuit. Instead she has chosen to be a party loyalist and keep her options open for the future.

    This of course in no way placates the disdain that these students, and I believe millions of Hillary supporters feel. On the face of it, Hillary was treated very unfairly. The rules committee not only violated their own bylaws, they violated their actual charter. Imagine actually giving a candidate votes that he didn't win. Is this America? Hillary would indeed have a solid case to bring to court if she wanted to take her party to task.

    The politics of her decision take precedence right now because there are good democratic candidates all across the land who hope to ride the democratic coatails in the event of a victory.

    Personally, I believe that many of Hillary's supporters will either vote for McCain or simply stay home and watch the talking heads try to sound like they know what they're talking about.

    There is no excuse for the comments that Olbermann and Matthews made, none. They were irresponsible. Same goes for David Schuster's comment about the Clinton's pimping of their daughter. This is a mean-spirited perspective that does their candidte no favors. In order for Hillary supporters gathering the strength to actually traipse off to the polling place and vote for Obama, he'll have to do an awful lot of ass kissing between now and November. He can start with me. Pucker up Barry.

    Posted by frankgrits at 06/13/200

    Imagine a candidate who signs a contract and then backpedals on it in order to try to win. That's what Hillary did. She digned a contract saying she would not run in MI or FL and then when she realized she was going to lose she all of a sudden wanted those states back in. Like I said, seating Floride is fine. Michigan has to be rerun if they are going to be seated. His name was not on the ballot therefore seating delegates does not even begin to be fair and I would expect Obama to sue not only the DNC but I would expect the DNC to sue Hillary for breach of contract.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/13/2008 @ 11:50am

33. MATTMAN

    these posts do you no credit.

    Posted by emile duBois at 06/13/2008 @ 12:06pm

34. Posted by marybretbrad at 06/13/2008

    No, I mean any Hillary supporters who want to see Roe overturned will be happy to vote for McCain.

    That decision shows how CLOSE we are to seeing that, if "Maverick" gets to pick the next 2-3 Justices.

    Posted by Mask at 06/13/2008 @ 12:30pm

35. Posted by frankgrits at 06/13/2008

    FRANK, since you're so "adept" at politics and can speak at length about strategies and "possible scenarios"...

    how about explaining IN DETAIL...

    Why did Hillary endorse Obama for President???

    Posted by Mask at 06/13/2008 @ 12:31pm

36. Be Good wrote: "These students were, apparently, committed to an individual (Clinton) rather than a set of policy positions or Democratic ideals."

    Precisely.....Ah, the cult of personality. The fascists were very adept at it.

    Posted by bobforer at 06/13/2008 @ 12:48pm

37. The sentiments expressed by these young women echo those of those former Southern Democrats who declared that "the Party had left them" in justifying their switch to the GOP.

    You know HRC did get some rough treatment in the media and from some Obama supporters. But guess what: so did everyone else in either party who's ever gotten past the first few primaries and caucuses with their campaigns above water. It's NOT sexist to say that HRC's campaign made serious tactical blunders and managed their funds like a drunken sailor on leave. It's NOT sexist to point out that the strategy of inevitability was bound to leave an opening for either Obama or Edwards to exploit.

    Perhaps it IS sexist to point out that if she had not tried to deny that she had a uterus in the first part of her campaign, she'd be the one holding the brass ring now. So be it.

    Posted by Egalitare at 06/13/2008 @ 1:00pm

38. Posted by Egalitare at 06/13/2008

    Note, Egal...

    it was just AFTER guys like Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller "left the Party, because the Party had left them"...

    that Democrats won back Congress!

    Posted by Mask at 06/13/2008 @ 1:24pm

39. When a democratic candidate announces, not once, but multiple times, that her republican opponent is more qualified than her democratic rival, she opens the door to a lot of anger. It's absurd to declare that Clinton was the recipient of sexism and mysogyny while ignoring the racism and hints of religious bigotry perpetrated by the Clinton campaign.

    Have the Clinton die-hards forgotten her "Obama's not a Muslim... as far as I know" comments? Or her "I represent hardworking white Americans" campaign? If Clinton had won the primary, I would have held my nose and voted for her with a great deal of repulsion for her nasty, slimy tactics during the past several months. I am as tired as anyone of the Bush cabal and would sacrifice my highest standards to prevent another four years of Republican insanity.

    I can even understand someone's loyalty to Clinton prompting her (or him) to vote for McKinney. But MCCAIN???? His voting record is anti-women right down the line! Have these young people lost their minds? I'm a 61 year old woman with a very progressive, liberal mindset, and for me, even Obama is far too centrist and corporate-leaning. However, sometimes one really must compromise in order to take the first steps away from a genuine horror show like the current administration.

    (Just a note: I generally like what Zero has to say, but his anti-feminist rants do begin to get old pretty fast. Some of us old feminists aren't so hard to take!)

    Posted by LeeAnnG at 06/13/2008 @ 2:38pm

40. Well, the threat to vote for McCainh must be serious, judging by the harsh reactions of the Obama supporters. If it were innocuous people would just blow it off.

    Posted by jsens at 06/13/2008 @ 2:40pm

41. If Mc Cain wins this Fall, I hope that someday Cody and Nikki have little girls when they become parents. Then they will have to explain to them why they supported the only candidate that has campaigned on overturning Roe v. Wade, refuses to fund family planning initiatives and does not feel it is a woman's right to equal pay for equal jobs with men. Oh yes, that's right, mommy was just a sore looser and needed to make someone pay for her disappointment. And who is paying? Their children, especially if they are daughters.

    Posted by tmbo at 06/13/2008 @ 2:51pm

42. Collin Powell says Obama's right about the direction our nation should be heading and that Obama's getting his vote. hsuB's job approval is dipping to low 20's and below. Yet McCave, as ignorant about computers as he is our economic needs, sticks to the hsuB presidency like a rock. The GOP is so full of reptiles on the verge of extinction that it's only appropriate that climate change is canning them in their soulless stasis... Rule of law got us past the time of dic'tator philosophy, the new con GOP can only exist if there is continual and devastating war leading us backwards to more lawless times. I say no more to the McCave MEC/MAD-- GOP.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 06/13/2008 @ 2:58pm

43. Wonderful endorsement. Go for it, Cody and Nikki!! The Obama Campaign has greatly humiliated the female candidate in this race and Obama Himself insulted her. See YouTube's mega hit:

    "OBAMA GIVES HILLARY THE F!NGER!!"--L.A. Times had reported on this ignominious gesture by a very much aware and camouflaged (sexist) Obama. He has maligned her throughout: "Her claws are comin' out" "Periodically, she gets feeling down, and starts attacking (poor ole) me!!" Such a whiner this Barack! Man up, idiot! The misogynist media fratboys gave an assist to Barack and pushed him over a stolen finish line to a fraudulent nomination that'll see McCain the winner in November!

    "Sen. Hillary Clinton I have no doubt will make a great President" --- so said....Sen. John McCain in Baghdad when interviewed with HRC by Meet the Press' Timmy Russert.

    McKinney/McCain '08 - the bitter cure for OBAMYOPIA to be delivered November by an unexpected demographic....

    Posted by sakel at 06/13/2008 @ 3:11pm

44. [Over half... She won the popular vote.

    Posted by marybretbrad at 06/13/2008 ]

    you'll believe anything you are spoon fed, won't you?

    *** [Posted by tmbo at 06/13/2008 ]

    Damn straight!!

    ***

    [Just think of the gains you could have made if you hadn't kicked out the only two sane people left in the party.

    Posted by marybretbrad at 06/13/2008 ]|

    Buwawhahaha.

    Priceless.

    Clueless, but priceless.

    First, nobody kicked anybody out, they left of their own accord.

    2nd, calling Ragin' Zell Miller sane after his little tantrum at the repub convention is like calling Saddam the best bulwark against Iran.

    Posted by crabwalk at 06/13/2008 @ 3:12pm

45. Posted by sakel at 06/13/2008

    several people humiliated Sen Clinton in this campaign, two of them are named Clinton.

    so, go ahead and vote for the Pro-life, pro-war, pro -MIC, pro-big-bidness, pro-Bush candidate.

    Posted by crabwalk at 06/13/2008 @ 3:16pm

46. Lee: "(Just a note: I generally like what Zero has to say, but his anti-feminist rants do begin to get old pretty fast. Some of us old feminists aren't so hard to take!)"

    ----

    Zero is one of maybe two posters here whose musings are worth reading. I must say I'm really struck at how shallow these threads generally are. I'd have thought that readers of The Nation would be more thoughtful, more open-minded, and more receptive to contrary ideas than what has been shown here.

    Posted by KSP556 at 06/13/2008 @ 3:20pm

47. Obama's jihadists will sure have a lot of problems facing reality in November! As for fraudsters...Remember when Barack knocked off the ballot in Chicago this name:

    SEN. ALICE PALMER--BHO went behind his mentor's back and played dirty Chicago politicking to push her off the ballot, with The Axelord's help! He's got a real history with getting rid of women he perceives as threats for his Sainthood!

    Obama spent $100,000 in Kenya campaigning with Dick Morris on behalf of his marxist-islamist cousin Odinga who signed a Memo of Understanding to enact SHARIA LAW and special 'chastity provisions' for Kenyan women! In December '07, when the Odinga thugs burned churches and raped villages, leaving half a million internal refugees in this formerly democratic country, Barack contacted Condi Rice for permission to write...a Speech on Healing and Unity!! Now, his cousin has stolen the presidency in Kenya and the V-P slot is still available ....

    Come November when Obamyopia will become just another curable affliction, BHO could apply for the V-P position and draft the woman-friendly Sharia law provisions that he wasn't given the opportunity to fully develop in Washington. That would be change we can believe in!

    Posted by sakel at 06/13/2008 @ 3:30pm

48. Remember another Obama-Gem?

    "Punished with baby"!!!

    Posted by sakel at 06/13/2008 @ 3:32pm

49. I think Hillary understands but you must agree, there is a bigger issue at stake. Is it alright to allow a renegade's state's delegates to be seated out of practicality and in the process of doing so, award a candidate uncommitted votes plus stealing four more from Hillary. Does that happen in America? Idon't think so. Not even Florida 2000 was there such a complete disregard for the voters who cast a vote legitemitly foe Hillary. who were the four delegates who voted for Hillary but were awarded to Obama? Do they have names? Disgraceful. Obama will always have the stigma that he did not win the nomination fairly and there's nothing he can do but decline the nomination. We all know that he won't be doing that.

    Posted by frankgrits at 06/13/2008

    How did he not win the nomination fairly? He won more delegates. That is fair. Michigan should not have been seated at all or there should have been a revote anything else would be unfair to everyone. Granted the decision they made was crap because you can't award delegates randomly but there shold have been a revote. You can't have a candidate let off the ballot and still award delegates. Stop griping Frank. The race is over your candidate lost. And no the other 18 milliong Hillary supporters aren't griping. There are a few Hillary cultists who believed their candidate was divinely fated to win. We will never convince those people any different and those people will sell out all the things they believe in, in order to vote for someone who is sure to roll this country back in time and govern with more politics of fear and you know what I am fine with that. That is their choice as an American.

    Those are the facts. Obama is rebounding MASSIVELY in the polls since Hillary's step down. He is up to +24 in favorability around the country while make is only at +14. So it is looking like you are going to lose twice Frank.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/13/2008 @ 5:00pm

50. Just for your edification Frank. These polls aren't going to matter till around November but I will tell you Fivethirtyeight is showing. Obama wins 54.8% to McCain 45.2%. So far Fivethirtyeight has been pretty accurate so I am more inclined to believe that. Obama is rebounding heavily in most of the states he lost to Hillary like Mass., New York, Cali, all states which we said would vote Demo in the generals and you said wouldn't.

    Face it. If McCain DOESN'T run incredibly dirty and I mean getting something seriously bad not just repeating the tired BS or terrorists don't attack soon the GOP is looking like they are going to lose this one and not by a tiny margin. The Pubs can't play the politics of fear this time around so they are having problems.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/13/2008 @ 5:13pm

51. If there truly are 18 million pissed off voters who are not going to vote for Obama then why is he polling so far ahead right now Frank? Can you explain that to me? Are they just saying they are going to vote for him and then during the general they will vote McCain?

    You claim to be very educated in politics but you sure know how to ignore some of the most glaringly obvious facts when you make these assertions.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/13/2008 @ 5:16pm

52. I do like that unlike Kerry Obama is taking the false accusations about him head on. I have to say the long primary season was painful but it seems like it taught him a lot quickly. Setting up a website to debunk internet rumors is very smart.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/13/2008 @ 5:21pm

53. Also it is intelligent that he is enlisting the help of his supporters and keeping them intimately involved in the process by having them track down rumors and send them into his aids in order for them to shoot them down. This is a smart tactic. Which also keeps him on top of everything so he can address any more disparaging rumors before they become some big issue.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/13/2008 @ 5:26pm

54. ""I think she probably meant ‘I'm more proud.' That's what she really meant," Bush said from Afghanistan.

    "You have to be really careful in what you say because everything you say is looked at and in many cases misconstrued," she said."

    Didn't expect to read that from Laura Bush about Michelle Obama's pride comment.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/13/2008 @ 5:30pm

55. Right, because everybody hopes and prays that one day their little girl will get knocked up and have an abortion or two.

    Posted by marybretbrad at 06/13/2008 ----- maybe because they can tell their daughter's if they are ever raped or their lifes are in danger they that can't get an abortion.

    there are two problems with the pro-life crowd.

    first they like to potray everyone that gets an abortion as "loose" and making the decision as if the were deciding what to wear. the vast majority of abortions come after lots of thought and lots of doubts.

    second, what happens after roe v. wade. Is griswold v. connecticut next. so how do you feel about the government telling you whether you're married or not that you are unable to use birth control. There are already signs they are pushing that agenda as well.

    Posted by rbuckle at 06/13/2008 @ 5:46pm

56. FRANK still waiting (and no doubt will continue to wait) for your DETAILED explanation for why Hillary endorsed Obama last Saturday and asked former supporters (like you) to vote for him too?

    Do you HAVE a detailed answer?

    Or is it that you don't want to give one, because you know how big a contradiction hole you'd dig for yourself....

    either on your assessment of an Obama Presidency...

    or on your assessment of Hillary's honesty or judgement?

    Posted by Mask at 06/13/2008 @ 5:48pm

57. Posted by rbuckle at 06/13/2008 |

    They claim they "have no problem with contraception as long as it's not an abortifacient"....

    but then go to the "pro-life" websites and dig a little deeper. Their ardent supporters speak disparagingly of both abortion AND birth control...especially the Catholic (but not limted to them) ones.

    Posted by Mask at 06/13/2008 @ 5:51pm

58. Mask face it: FRANK dug himeslf a hole he can't extract himself from. So you're not gonna get any sort of answer beyond "politics dillweed". Incidentally dill is not a weed, though it can grow like one.

    The rabid anti Obama Democrats (call them what they are) just feel this need to fight the feminist battle all over again simply because their horse lost. I agree the media was deplorable on both candidates, but Obama went out of his way to do this thing honorably. If they refuse to see that or separate Obama from the media that is their blindness.

    Posted by yutsano at 06/13/2008 @ 6:29pm

59. >>>Barring a DREAM TICKET scenario <<<

    This is publicity stunt orchestrated by the Clinton campaign to try to pressure Barrack to put Hillary on the ticket. Where is Hillary's condemnation of this letter?

    Repeat after me, Hillary boosters, "HILLARY AS VP AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN". Hillary has shown over and over again - and this latest stunt is yet another example - that the Clinton(s) are addicted to power, and therefore cannot be trusted a "heartbeat away" from being president as the VP.

    When the Clinton(s) learn that politics is MUCH MORE than themselves, and not just a vehicle for them to feel powerful, they will have finally gotten the message of Barack Obama.

    Posted by Metteyya at 06/13/2008 @ 6:30pm

60. First of all, Frank's back! Wow. Anyway, these girls are crazy. Their decision can't be a principled one if they endorsed Hillary. Only children and immature adults let emotion override their principles. Just like another poster stated, I would have begrudgingly voted for Hillary had she been the nominee. I might have been disappointed but not self-defeatingly stupid by voting against what I stand for.

    Posted by k330k at 06/13/2008 @ 7:17pm

61. Posted by yutsano at 06/13/2008

    In ancient times, dill was thought to protect against witchcraft. It has herbal medicinal properties for both curing insomnia and upset tummies.

    The fact FG doesn't know this (or the innate irony of using it as an attack)...and that he seems incapable of finding some other invective to fling at me ...

    causes me a great deal of laughter.

    Posted by Mask at 06/13/2008 @ 7:44pm

62. >>>It is no secret that Barack Obama's campaign is on edge about the prospect of losing the support of Democrats who were enthusiastic about the candidacy of Hillary Clinton.<<<

    Nichols,

    This fear of losing Hillary's voters is a manufactured issue by the mainstream press.

    Women are NOT going to vote for McCain once reminded that he wants to overturn Roe v. Wade and will have the power to do so with the very old liberal Supreme Court justices about to retire.

    "White" blue collar voters are NOT going to vote for McCain once they are reminded that McCain is for "trickle down economics" , in which giving tax breaks to the wealthy is his ONLY economic plan!

    These two groups are the ONLY groups Hillary brings to the table, and once the Obama campaign is in full swing and voters are reminded of the facts above, they will vote for Barack Obama!

    Posted by Metteyya at 06/13/2008 @ 8:06pm

63. I dunno Mask, maybe he has the same problem the Japanese do, which is a distinct lack of good curses. Of course calling someone stupid (baka) is the worst thing to a Japanese person, so maybe that's as bad as they need to be. However he's ruining the name of a good honest herb.

    Posted by yutsano at 06/13/2008 @ 9:34pm

64. I am not going to read all the anti-Hillary, anti-femaLE crap that is here. I will tell you this--(and, ignore it at your own peril--well, ours, too) Before this "campaign", about 90% of Af. Am. voters backed the Clintons. Caling Cynthia McKinney a "cunt" is revolting. She, Jackson Lee, Maxine Waters and Tubbs Jones held out bravely, in their loyalty to Hilary--Hell, I didnt even like her that much! (I backed Kucinich, then Edwards--but I wanted health care for ALL!)Don't you guys SEE what you are doing?? If you turn off the base of the Dem, you'll HAVE to win either the "west" or the "Deep South"! Now, unless it's changed alot since I've last been down there--Obama can't win most of it. Now,I did hear Obama say , early in the campaign, "It doesnt matter about winning--its about ideas". Now, if thats what you want--OK. But we'll all suffer for it. It may actually be the end of our democracy --to a Plutocracy. You Obamaniacs need to stop being such sore winners! The GOP is going to call you whiners--and rightly so! Hilary is gone...get a life!! You guys are so focused on Obama --you're pathetic.

    Posted by kdelphi95 at 06/14/2008 @ 03:29am

65. Frank, what if McCain sends more sons to Iraq, because his "experience" tells him to?

    Chimpy has kept the stop-loss program in effect, could that mean that your son may have to return under a McCain presidency?

    You were against the war in Iraq, what changed? You are supporting two pro-war candidates.

    Posted by crabwalk at 06/14/2008 @ 09:14am

66. McCain voted with Cjimpy McFlightuit 95% of the time, why would any self described democrat want 4-8 more years of Bush?

    It is non-sensical. It seems to me to be a totally emotion driven idea to vote for McCain because your first choice was treated bad in a primary. Especially when your candidate ran the ugliest mud slinging campaign of all the dems.

    Posted by crabwalk at 06/14/2008 @ 09:17am

67. I think Obama showed remarkable restraint vis a vis Hillary. example:

    when Hillary was getting trashed for her Bosnian sniper fairy tale, Obama did not press his advantage. he did not mention it at all.

    Hillary by contrast, when Obama was being savaged, was happy to add her "me too"s.

    we have the best nominee.

    Posted by emile duBois at 06/14/2008 @ 12:42pm

68. I win no matter who wins. I'm a democrat and my candidate is McCain so whoever wins I'm satisified. McCain is the better candidate but the democratic policies are favorable to me for the most part.

    Oh, and there was no revote because Obama didn't want one. Hillary gave the go ahead for revotes in Mich and Fla. Obama knew the fix was in in his favor. Couldn't have a revote screwing things up now could we. It stinks.

    Posted by frankgrits at 06/13/2008

    Yes that's exactly right Frank. The whole of the DNC was conspiring against Hillary. Why don't you just except it for what it is. The reason he didn't want a revote was because he was sticking to the contract that he and Hillary signed. Hillary wanted them sat so she could cheat her way to a victory by breaching her contract.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/14/2008 @ 6:32pm

69. just around the corner.....

    Posted by frosty zoom at 06/14/2008 @ 11:59pm

70. it must be said. Canadians have not exactly elected the best and brightest for their PMs.

    Posted by emile duBois at 06/15/2008 @ 08:57am

71. harper -- evil

    martin -- incompetent

    chrétien -- corrupt

    kim campbell -- fleeting

    mulroney -- reaganoid drone.

    i can't go any further back; i'm getting dizzy.....

    Posted by frosty zoom at 06/15/2008 @ 12:57pm

72. frosty zoom

    Leo Brouwer

    thanks for reminding me.

    From Yesterday to Penny Lane

    Posted by emile duBois at 06/15/2008 @ 4:12pm

73. I believe again Lieberman is behind this. Knowing as he knows the Dem party and having connections here and there, he is undermining it.

    I urge the Dem National Executive Committee to write a public letter denouncing him and expelling him from the Party.

    To another thing: Michigan and Florida.

    In the Dem primaries there have been two clearly defined stages pre and post the Reverend "scandal". Prior to the Pastor appearance, Obama was basically winning them all. Post to the Pastor, all the states that have a large conservative Dem fraction voted Hillary. Obama did not even campaign in both two states. If he had campaigned and before the 'scandal', there is no reason to think he would not had been competitive (or winning)in Michigan and loosing by low margins in Florida. Given the stances, the "Salomonic solution" of the Dem Party assigning delegates was very much acceptable.

    Posted by Frank42 at 06/15/2008 @ 8:45pm

74. Frank42

    while certainly true, isn't this old news by now, a moot point.

    Posted by emile duBois at 06/15/2008 @ 9:37pm

75. Why such soreloser-manship?

    Posted by kdelphi95 at 06/16/2008

    Ummm. I'm going to try to decipher what you said. First of all the above statement is sexist. Then you try to bemoan the sexism against Hillary. Maybe you should pay attention to what you are writing before you start throwing out isms. No one is insulting Hillary here. We are talking about the stupid nature of people voting for a President because they want progressive issues represented and then because their candidate didn't win they vote for the person who stands against every thing they believe in. You like FrankGrits assume that just because we are talking about SOME Hillary supporters it means we are talking ALL Hillary supporters. The majority of Hillary supporters realize that if they want their issues represented then they will have to vote for Obama to ever see that instead of voting for a man that is going to lead to the overturn of a lot of progressive legislation. Rap your mind around that before you start calling people sexist.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/16/2008 @ 10:16am

76. Wrong. Don't you realize that the DNC had to seat delegates from Michigan and Florida or else they would have lost both of those states in the General. A revote was the only real fair solution but obama feared losing both those states to Hillary. Hillary still has the law on her side and she can challange the decision if she wants to.

    Posted by frankgrits at 06/14/2008

    "A revote was the only real fair solution but obama feared losing both those states to Hillary."

    There is the problem with your statement Frank. He lost those states to Hillary whether they had a revote or not. So I don't think that mattered to him. He wouldn't have lost by any larger of a margin than he did and even if he DID lose by a larger margin he still had the delegate lead. You can't even see the holes in your own argument.

    "Hillary still has the law on her side and she can challange the decision if she wants to."

    No she doesn't. She signed a contract. Her taking this to court is a breach of contract and the DNC could sue her even farther into debt for it. Do you know anything about law?

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 06/16/2008 @ 11:39am

77. I thought the Obamaniacs wanted Hillary out of the race, so they could concentrate on running against McCain--so why don't you? This is 2 people , from what I can tell, yet you guys rant and scream--it's just so ridiculous..Obama would never behave the way some of his Apostles do. If you want to win, I think you'd better back off, Yeah, it's stupid what they did--you're giving it more attention then what it deserves. AND, it's starting to sound like you hate HIllary (women? Except the "music video kind"?) alot more than you care about Obama--or anything else. You wanted to run against McCain--you can now. Why such soreloser-manship?

    Posted by kdelphi95 at 06/16/2008 @ 3:57pm

78. I thought the Obamaniacs wanted Hillary out of the race, so they could concentrate on running against McCain--so why don't you? This is 2 people , from what I can tell, yet you guys rant and scream--it's just so ridiculous..Obama would never behave the way some of his Apostles do. If you want to win, I think you'd better back off, Yeah, it's stupid what they did--you're giving it more attention then what it deserves. AND, it's starting to sound like you hate HIllary (women? Except the "music video kind"?) alot more than you care about Obama--or anything else. You wanted to run against McCain--you can now. Why such sorewinner-manship? I so bemoan that we should have had this election in the bag by now. How is thisuniting anybody except the GOP?

    Posted by kdelphi95 at 06/16/2008 @ 3:59pm

79. FrankGrits-As you know,Obama had nothing to do with Michigan or Florida and,as you know,Hillary agreed to the rules as they pertain to those two states.Your repeat the lie propaganda is quite becoming for the new you.

    Posted by i'm nobody at 06/17/2008 @ 02:53am