McCain, Hagee and the Politics of God's Wrath

posted by John Nichols on 04/26/2008 @ 1:30pm

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The whole controversy about John McCain's ties to radical preacher John Hagee has been miscast, both by McCain's critics and supporters – not to mention by our ministerially-obsessed media.

There is not really a comparison between the McCain-Hagee link and the relationship between Barack Obama and the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. Obama, the Illinois senator who leads in the race for the Democratic presidential nomination, looks to Wright for personal and spiritual counsel but does not have a political relationship with the man.

Indeed, as concerns about some of Wright's statements have been voiced, Obama has gone out of his way to distance himself politically from his former paster – while at the same time voicing his regard and respect for a religious leader who has been a part of his life for two decades.

Hagee, whose views about a host of social issues give new meaning to the term "hateful," is not McCain's pastor. They have no personal or spiritual relationship. Rather, Hagee is a close political ally of McCain and an ardent supporter of the Arizona senator's presidential bid.

McCain sought Hagee's endorsement and continued to defend and embrace the pastor – saying he was "glad to have the minister's endorsement – even after Hagee said that Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans because of the city's "sinful" acceptance of homosexuality.

"What happened in New Orleans looked like the curse of God…" Hagee explained after the city experienced a national disaster that cost at least 1,836 lives – making it the deadliest hurricane in American history – and permanently dislocated tens of thousands of Americans from not just their homes but the communities of their birth and upbringing.

"Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans" Hagee told NPR's Terry Gross in a 2006 interview. What was God judging? "New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God," said McCain's backer, who explained that "there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came."

While it is true that New Orleans has long been a more gay-friendly city than most in the south, it is notable that Katrina also devastated Mississippi and southern Alabama – areas that have not traditionally been thought of as go-to places for the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered communities.

So, even if one were to accept Hagee's argument that God is using hurricanes to get his or her points across, the precise point is, shall we say, open to interpretation.

What is not open to interpretation is the fact that McCain has wed himself to Hagee politically. The senator is not linked to minister on spiritual grounds, he is linked to him on political and policy grounds.

Thus, as McCain today visits New Orleans – a city that has suffered greatly as a result of political neglect and policy malfeasance – it is reasonable to ask whether the senator who says he is "very honored" to have Hagee's support shares Hagee's view that thousands of people in Mississippi, Alabama and Louisiana died and lost their homes because God disapproves of gay-pride rallies.

Indeed, it is far more reasonable to demand that McCain talk about where he agrees and disagrees with Rev. Hagee on questions about the causes of natural disasters and the response of a Republican administration to them than it is to ask Obama about the Rev. Wright's statements.

Obama turned to Wright for spiritual sustenance.

McCain, far more significantly, turned to Hagee for political sustenance – and, if we are to presume that neither of these men are hypocrites, because of their ideological compatibility.

Comments (163)

The "sinfull" section of New Orleans was pretty much spared which made his statement that much more ludicrous.Of course,the god of falwell and hagee is a bad shot and no Annie Oakley,like Hillary.He knocks down a symbol of capitalism,the WTC,because he's mad at gays and pagans.Guess he doesn't know that San Fransisco is the symbol of homosexuality and that pagans have an annual festival in eastern Kansas which is tornado country.Why not just use an earthquake in San Fransisco and a tornado in Kansas to get your point across?What is interesting,however,is that the only place in America that has an increase in natural disasters is the Bible belt,but,somehow,the religious fanatics living there find a way to blame that on others who don't live there rather than on themselves.

Posted by i'm nobody at 04/24/2008 @ 1:47pm
As LVLIB (who will SURELY arrive to defend Mr. Hagee) will tell us....

it's 'okay' when a right-wing Christian preacher says it.

and 'totally different' when it's a left-wing Christian preacher or any Muslim.

And that's as detailed as the explanation REALLY gets.

heheh

Posted by Mask at 04/24/2008 @ 1:49pm
Now, if we can only get the mainstream press to run clips of Hagee over and over again like they did with Rev. Wright?

Posted by Metteyya at 04/24/2008 @ 8:26pm
CNN, ABC, Fox, delight in these subtleties, which Mr. Nichols spells out nicely, precisely because this gives them a complete pass. There's nothing in McCain's closet they can't dismiss, minimize. Raw power. Remember the glorious Monica days! Whatever trash was being dumped on US by big media in the early 90's was deemed so important that Rwanda got about as much coverage as Hagee-McCain does now.

Posted by winyahn at 04/24/2008 @ 10:45pm
hi haps.

in my browser i can pull the little corner deal on the right to make little boxy bigger.

Thursday, April 24, 2008 11:18:59 PM

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/24/2008 @ 11:15pm
why am i redirected to the blog home page when i submit?

and the preview gives me no preview......

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/24/2008 @ 11:16pm
and html?

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/24/2008 @ 11:17pm
i put my own time stamp in.

i'll fire up firefox and see what's up.

Thursday, April 24, 2008 11:27:15 PM

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/24/2008 @ 11:23pm
nope, just teensy-weensy box in firefox.

11:32

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/24/2008 @ 11:29pm
nationeers:

it was quite difficult to log in with firefox.

11:34

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/24/2008 @ 11:30pm
and it was difficult to log in with "opera" browser.

Thursday, April 24, 2008 11:39:07 PM

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/24/2008 @ 11:35pm
Tiny with Opera browser too. Weird.

11:36

Posted by Malcontent at 04/24/2008 @ 11:36pm
Wright is so much nearer to Christ's message than Hagee will ever be. Wright preaches repentance from our stupid pride and selfishness that will lead us into a more brotherly relationship with other countries and people. Hagee preaches on continuing to proclaim ourselves the "best of the best" excluding...yeah gays and almost everybody else.

Posted by Frank42 at 04/25/2008 @ 02:52am
Ich on the new format!!

Posted by crabwalk at 04/25/2008 @ 07:13am
Where did my post go?

What was wrong with the old format? Change for change sake?

Posted by crabwalk at 04/25/2008 @ 07:16am
ahh, there it is.

I blogged, hit "submit" and then I was taken back to the Home Page. When I went back to the hagee page, using "refresh", no new entries. Now, when I get to it through "Blogs", the entries are here.

??????

Time for some OT for IT at The Nation.

Posted by crabwalk at 04/25/2008 @ 07:23am
Now when I hit "submit", it takes me back to "blogs".

Not good. Not good.

It looks like ChimpCo put this together on a "no-bid". I hope it didn't cost 8 billion.

Posted by crabwalk at 04/25/2008 @ 07:26am
The peasants are revolting.

And they smell, too.

Posted by crabwalk at 04/25/2008 @ 07:44am
Looks like The Nation is trying to look like other blogs. Too bad. I liked the set up as it was. I'll get used to it though.

Posted by FritztheCat at 04/25/2008 @ 08:05am
Hmmm, can't put things in italics anymore I see. :)

Posted by FritztheCat at 04/25/2008 @ 08:06am
It's much better if you increase the font size by holding down the Ctrl key and scrolling with the mousewheel.

Posted by FritztheCat at 04/25/2008 @ 08:07am
Friday, April 25, 2008 8:34:40 AM

stamp your own time!

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/25/2008 @ 08:31am
Let me just join the chorus and say...

the new website sucks.

Both in download time and the format.

The navigating has gone from "sunny day with shore in sight" to "pea soup fog, a hundred miles out to sea with uncharted coral reefs."

Posted by Mask at 04/25/2008 @ 08:58am
how u do that? type it out!?!?!?

Posted by ibbleblibble at 04/25/2008

naw, i've got a nifty little helper program installed.

Friday, April 25, 2008 10:24:50 AM

however it is easy to type

10:25

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/25/2008 @ 10:21am
but, i was sent back to the blog page!

grrrrrrrrrrrr.

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/25/2008 @ 10:22am
and the campaign 08 thing is gone...guess it was a tad redundant...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 04/25/2008

no, it's still there.

somewhere...........

Friday, April 25, 2008 10:40:20 AM

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/25/2008 @ 10:36am
I've been speaking to quite a few women here in Texas about their options, as most are upset with both Billary and Barack campaigns' polarizing negativity and of course McCavian lunacy. So I asked them rather than deciding between one or the other, McCave, or not voting at all, what if Al Gore were to become a choice via the brokered convention scenario, what would you do? 11 of the 15 said they'd go with Al Gore!?!?! This is here in Austin, Texas, so it may not be what would be going on in the rest of the country. I'm just a little surprised as 5-6 of the women were either staunch Barack or Billary supporters.

I'd like to see more polling in that direction beyond just the one Newsweek poll a few days ago including Al Gore against McCave.

That the media is way way behind the curve on lots of this-- isn't surprising... they tend to report what they're told to report, mainly.

Posted by hsuBfools at 04/25/2008 @ 12:04pm
Oh that's what's happening. It'll take some getting used to that's for sure.

Posted by hsuBfools at 04/25/2008 @ 12:07pm
Posted by hsuBfools at 04/25/2008

Okay, hsub....what are you saying?

Or is it "I'm not saying nuthin'..just saying"?

or are we back to the craziness and you really think "Gore will win a brokered Convention!!!!"?

Posted by Mask at 04/25/2008 @ 12:17pm
This is just a badly designed format for a website. The front page is like ocular rape. Then once I get into the blogs I can only write 4 words across in this box before they disappear.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 12:20pm
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008

download safari for windoes,

it's got a corner stretcher thingy so you can make the box bigger.

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/application_updates/safari31 1.html

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/25/2008 @ 12:33pm
™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/25/2008 @ 12:34pm
Okay, hsub....what are you saying?

Posted by Mask at 04/25/2008

So what's unclear about the women I spoke with when I wrote:

"11 of the 15 said they'd go with Al Gore!?!?! This is here in Austin, Texas, so it may not be what would be going on in the rest of the country. I'm just a little surprised as 5-6 of the women were either staunch Barack or Billary supporters.

I'd like to see more polling in that direction beyond just the one Newsweek poll a few days ago including Al Gore against McCave."

Posted by hsuBfools at 04/25/2008 @ 12:36pm
heythat'scoolifyouwanttowritesomekindofstreamofcon-shush-nissramblingwit hneitherstartnorfinishwellstartyesbutwho'sreallytosaywhichcamefirstthech ickenortheeggman?

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/25/2008 @ 12:36pm
sorry, just testing the new limits

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/25/2008 @ 12:37pm
I'm thinking Jesus wouldn't have a lot of tolerence for a a hole like Hagy

Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 04/25/2008 @ 12:47pm
I'm thinking Jesus wouldn't have a lot of tolerence for a a hole like Hagy

Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 04/25/2008 @ 12:47pm
well, tolerance was kinda jesus' job.

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/25/2008 @ 12:48pm
Who does that leave?

Posted by Euler at 04/25/2008

this should be in !

and !

to whit:

WRIGHT/HAGEE '08 -- God loves us More.

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/25/2008 @ 12:49pm
Euler, I won't even go there, since if I felt the need to prove his existance to you I would consider myself shortsighted indeed. Suffice it to say, if you believe in his existance and status, which is historically based according to scientists on record, then great. If not, well then good luck to you. I'm no evangelist

Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 04/25/2008 @ 12:51pm
hey,

a workaround navigation.

a) type your business....

b) submit

c) go back one page in your browser (after nation homepage ¿? appears)

d) refresh page where you had been typing

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/25/2008 @ 12:53pm
I do not believe that most concerned following the political issues pay much heed to MSM's tabloidiness as they do to their own candidate or maybe one very reliable 'trustworthy' authority-type. An example is this recent survey that illustrates that more scientist believe Al Gore than the MSM concerning climate change:

http://www.stats.org/stories/2008/global_warming_survey_apr23_08.html

Posted by hsuBfools at 04/25/2008 @ 12:55pm
Made my decision Frost: If its Obama vs. McCain, I'll take Obama. Current leadership is so ineffective I'll try the Magic Wand as Hillary called it.

If its Hill vs McCain, I'll go with the latter. As a real American I could never in good conscious vote for a collectivist like her. Only the miraculous acsension of Ron Paul would change any of this.

How 'bout you?

Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 04/25/2008 @ 12:56pm
Posted by CHIP THORNTON

well, if it's obama i'll pray.

if it's clinton i'll pray thrice.

if it's mccain, i'm moving to alpha centauri (and praying).

dr. paul seems nice and i agree with him on monetary policy (and mostly on foriegn policy) . however, environmental regulation and using the collective buying power of a unified populace are important to me, so those things would worry me.

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/25/2008 @ 1:03pm
buying power of a unified populace

for health care

oops.

(well, if the preview window worked.........)

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/25/2008 @ 1:04pm
If the rumors are true, the Supers will vote by June 15th and that'll end it.

Now, 2 questions come to mind-

1. Will FRANK obey his Dark Mistress' calls to "unite the Party and support Senator Obama"...if not, doesn't his defiance doom him to Eternal Torment in her Pit of Nothing To Eat But Cotton Candy Forever?

and 2. What will be the new HSUBFOOLS line abou working in Al Gore onto Obama's ticket?...heheh

Posted by Mask at 04/25/2008 @ 1:21pm
Now we know were all the money KVH was begging for went.

Posted by ACook at 04/25/2008 @ 1:21pm
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 04/25/2008

Chip, can the magic wand make them all disappear?

Posted by ACook at 04/25/2008 @ 1:23pm
THIS NEW FORMAT DOES SUCK!!!

No HTML, and no more link to submit web letters!

It also appears that "campaign '08" blogs have been de-emphasized in favor of other content. It looks like The Nation is getting tired of the campaign rather than stepping up to the plate at a critical juncture to shed light on the issue.

They should have contacted me - I know some of the best web design houses in the world, and they could have given them a great price!

Posted by Metteyya at 04/25/2008 @ 1:29pm
I'll be generous and put SOME of these bugs down to "bugs" and will get worked out later into the weekend (hopefully not into NEXT week)...BUT...

This MICROSCOPIC comment field is the pits!

Posted by Mask at 04/25/2008 @ 1:37pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/25/2008

I use a mac. So all I use is Safari.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 1:38pm
Posted by ACook at 04/25/2008

The thing is I would rather take a chance with the Magic Wand, someone untested than Bush-44. Obama can't make things worse if he gets good advisers. That's the key is who he chooses as a Cabinet. If he gets a good cabinet he really just needs to listen to them to get some of his ideas through and I think Congress and the House will be on his side. If it's Bush-44 I KNOW what kind of Cabinet he will have and I KNOW he will have problems pushing anything through Congress and we will stagnate just like before.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 1:46pm
Did The Nation hire some independent contractors to do this?

Frosty, I am running Safari, I have no options for increasing this little tiny typing box, just FYI.

"Awesome power!!!!!

little tiny box"- the best line from Aladdin, or my memory of the line.

Posted by crabwalk at 04/25/2008 @ 2:00pm
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008

C3PO, this teeny weeny box is getting to you. Or I should say it's getting to me.

"Congress and the House" Did you mean the House and Senate? hehe..

Anyway, the candidate(s) I'm voting for are Mr. Peabody and Sherman.

And, my recommendation for stagnation is give Congress a good enema. (Wear your long gloves of course.)

Posted by ACook at 04/25/2008 @ 2:12pm
CHIP, I agree with you on the Jesus topic. If Euler wants to disregard what has been proven with science, then her loss.

I'm going with Obama (no surprise there).

Also, THIS NEW FORMAT SUCKS DOGGY BALLS, LEMONS, AND ROTTEN EGGS!!!!

Posted by k330k at 04/25/2008 @ 2:13pm
Posted by ACook at 04/25/2008

HA!HA! That's funny.

Posted by k330k at 04/25/2008 @ 2:13pm
crabwalk

the stretchy thing only started in safari 3........

Friday, April 25, 2008 2:17:02 PM

(and look for a mac thingy called "word service" -- makes time stamps easy)

http://www.devon-technologies.com/products/freeware/services.html

Friday, April 25, 2008 2:18:44 PM

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/25/2008 @ 2:15pm
safari 3.1 for mac,

IT'S GOT STRETCHY BOX!

(i can actually see all this message.........................................................)

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/25/2008 @ 2:16pm
oops,

for windows, too

that's it. yeah, windows.

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/25/2008 @ 2:22pm
Posted by ACook at 04/25/2008

"Congress and the House" Did you mean the House and Senate? hehe..

Yeahhhh I'm a little tired today went to sleep late woke up early type of deal.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 2:22pm
IT'S GOT STRETCHY BOX!

(i can actually see all this message.........................................................)

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/25/2008

There's a dirty joke in there somewhere!...heheh

Posted by Mask at 04/25/2008 @ 2:27pm
and 2. What will be the new HSUBFOOLS line abou working in Al Gore onto Obama's ticket?...heheh

Posted by Mask at 04/25/2008

Hey, if Obama gets it straight out, both I and Al will be overjoyed. (As I've mentioned a few times before.) And well, so will Obama I'm sure. But at the point that happens it will be totally up to Barack to figure it all out and Al can be out of the picture; as well he would prefer.

However, there are bigger forces at work here that are looking at an Al Gore presidency this time around and how that can/will actually happen is up for grabs. It is no surprise per all the activity and accolades Al's been getting ongoing for the last year and a half-- all timed to focus on Al as a major positive force and option now.

Posted by hsuBfools at 04/25/2008 @ 2:42pm
http://tinyurl.com/55n258

Posted by hsuBfools at 04/25/2008 @ 2:59pm
Hey, if Obama gets it straight out, both I and Al will be overjoyed.

However, there are bigger forces at work here that are looking at an Al Gore presidency this time around

Posted by hsuBfools at 04/25/2008

HSUB, 2 questions-(in reverse order)

1. What SPECIFICALLY are those "bigger forces"...EXACTLY?

2. How is it you are able to read Al Gore's mind and know that he'd be "overjoyed"?!??!?

heheh

Posted by Mask at 04/25/2008 @ 3:04pm
iT MUST BE THAT THE LARGER BOX WAS ENVIRONMENTALLY IRRESPONSIBILE. gAWWWWDdAMNNN MAH CARBON KEYSTROKE IS SURE SMALL NOW!!

Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 04/25/2008 @ 3:21pm
THAT sounds dirty!

Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 04/25/2008 @ 3:31pm
Posted by MarkCanyon at 04/25/200

I can do it in Safari I think you just need Safari 3. I think if you have an older version it won't let you.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 3:35pm
Posted by marybretbrad at 04/25/2008

Problem is that was quite a while ago and Ayers isn't endorsing Obama and Obama isn't proud of knowing him. Your fringe is acceptable enough that your politicians say they are happy about knowing them and having their political endorsement. Also I think your fringe also include abortion clinic bombers so don't play like you don't have the violent loonies too, who are detested by everyone.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 3:48pm
Posted by marybretbrad at 04/25/2008

Also some of your fringe include the KKK and the CofCC.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 3:48pm
Posted by HAPPY2 at 04/25/200

Yes I do.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 3:49pm
Posted by marybretbrad at 04/25/2008

So, MBB/Darin, you're saying there is NO right-wing fringe that is repellant to "normal people"?!??!?

Posted by Mask at 04/25/2008 @ 3:53pm
BTW, was Timothy McVeigh...a left-winger?

Posted by Mask at 04/25/2008 @ 3:54pm
Posted by marybretbrad at 04/25/2008 | ignore this person

I don't know about you but my grandparents never bombed and abortion clinic nor did they lynch people or profess to be racist and say all blacks should be killed.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 4:00pm
1. What SPECIFICALLY are those "bigger forces"...EXACTLY?

Those that are big enough to get him most if not all the awards... is it like 10 and counting? He just got another one just a couple of days ago.

2. How is it you are able to read Al Gore's mind and know that he'd be "overjoyed"?!??!?

Oops-- auto-grammar, initially read: 'Hey, if Obama gets it straight out, both I and Al will be overjoyed, and well, so will Obama, I'm sure. (As I've mentioned a few times before.)'

Now you could'vet just as well asked: 'How are you 'sure', they'd be 'overjoyed'?

Well Barack being overjoyed is obvious, unless you think he's part of the conspiracy to get Al elected and he's a really good actor like Billary are... OK so it's really Al being overjoyed with the presidential selection being Obama-- http://tinyurl.com/5zqrkg, http://tinyurl.com/67w3q6, http://tinyurl.com/2tc578, etc.

heheh

Posted by Mask at 04/25/2008

http://tinyurl.com/5mmg78

Posted by hsuBfools at 04/25/2008 @ 4:00pm
Posted by marybretbrad at 04/25/2008

This is a side note, not to say the people you named aren't terrorists but you have to remember one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. What Americans did to the Brits was considered terrorism of the time. So be careful how easily you toss around that word and what you consider a terrorist. Because you have to remember your side worked with Hussein and Osama and the Contras and Ollie North.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 4:02pm
All the people I named by the way by global standards are considered terrorists, two of which we have now been to war with because they attacked America, Ollie North and the Contras are still protected by most of the right.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 4:03pm
Well Hussein didn't attack America but you get my point.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 4:04pm
Posted by hsuBfools at 04/25/2008

HSUB, you didn't answer the questions.

1. WHO or WHAT are these "bigger forces"...specifically?

2. How does yet-another-Gore-might-need-to-save-us rant on tinyurl.com...show that you know Al Gore would be "overjoyed" if Obama got the nomination "straight out"? Gore's made no endorsement of Obama, but somehow you're able to predict his emotional state? Vulcan mind-meld with old Al???

Posted by Mask at 04/25/2008 @ 4:07pm
Marybretbrad

Good Post

You sound like Kit Buka the Mongol with your opening.

Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 04/25/2008 @ 4:16pm
Ollie North and the Contras are still protected by most of the right.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008

C3PO, there was nothing Congress could do to Oliver North except get mad. You know they have no power over the military with the exception of the purse. And as far as the Contras are concerned, both sides have aided and abetted on that sordid affair.

Posted by ACook at 04/25/2008 @ 4:17pm
Posted by marybretbrad at 04/25/200

Never talked about Ollie North and the Contras.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 4:19pm
Posted by ACook at 04/25/2008

But they also protected him when countries try to bring him before a world court.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 4:20pm
But they also protected him when countries try to bring him before a world court.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008

Who tried to bring him before the world court?

Posted by ACook at 04/25/2008 @ 4:21pm
Posted by marybretbrad at 04/25/2008

I do. But not everyone in your camp does. Like I said Ollie North is still popular amongst your folks and is considered a terrorist by many. Just like McCain helped a CofCC member in his bid for a government job. Huckabee gave speechs at the CofCC. Not everyone is castigated as you say and the CofCC DOES support violent action.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 4:32pm
Posted by ACook at 04/25/2008

Sorry I am getting stories intertwined that was a apart of another Contra story.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 4:32pm
Posted by marybretbrad at 04/25/2008

Also you try to make it sound like they are universally accepted. They aren't you are trying to generalize. For instance I think they are terrorists. They are accepted by some rejected by most. Just like your terrorists are accepted by some and rejected by most.

Your parties shit DOES stink whether you are willing to accept that or not.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 4:35pm
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008

Who or what is CofCC? And who was the member that McCain helped?

Posted by ACook at 04/25/2008 @ 4:39pm
Posted by ACook at 04/25/2008

The C of CC is basically the KKK without the hoods.

George Wallace's son, George Wallace Jr. who's father was closely related to the C of CC and who himself is a 4 time speaker for them.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 4:44pm
After navigating around the new website for a while, I've determined that it sucks. Bad. Who's the moron who redesigned it?

Hopefully over the next few days it will get better.

Have a good weekend all!

Posted by FritztheCat at 04/25/2008 @ 4:47pm
"The Council of Conservative Citizens is currently fighting against immigration by non-whites, affirmative action and racial quotas, interracial marriage, homosexuality, forced busing for school integration, and gun control. The CofCC also looks favorably towards European nationalist and anti-immigration groups such as British National Party, Front National, and Vlaams Belang."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Conservative_Citizens

Just a short wikipedia search for them. I googled their website but apparently there may be viruses on it or something so I don't actually want to log into it.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 4:47pm
Posted by marybretbrad at 04/25/2008

I can see and do agree with your middle America point.

I still believe what you consider to be terrorists or murderers although accepted by most still also falls to subjectivity because I reiterate Osama was considered and freedom fighter by Americans when he was fighting Communism even though he was still using terrorist actions. The school of the Americas trains people in terrorist action but many consider those people to be "freedom fighters." Many of their actions are considered justified until they inevitably turn on us.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 5:09pm
Republicans romanticize Rambo

Posted by marybretbrad at 04/25/200

Just a side note and this is completely not antagonizing but didn't he kill cops in one of the movies when he came back to the US?

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 5:10pm
Posted by marybretbrad at 04/25/2008

I'm pretty sure many of their members ARE KKK members. They are also defending certain police officers and other figures who are considered to have commited racially motivated crimes.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 5:12pm
http://mccainduke2008.wordpress.com/

Just in my random searches I found that. Just found it funny because that would never even get close to happening.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 5:16pm
Posted by Mask at 04/25/2008

Firstly, so there's no way for you to understand that there's an overriding organization that's powerful enough to arrange a series of events so effective that Al Gore would receive just about every kind of award one wouldn't/couldn't imagine one politico getting-- all because I won't put a name on the organization or rather conglomerate? All I can say is "A rose by any other name, ...

Secondly, can't help it if don't/won't read what I post and then ask the same question that's been answered in the 'tinyurls'.

Posted by hsuBfools at 04/25/2008 @ 5:16pm
http://tinyurl.com/3hbv8a

That type of stuff is why I don't like your candidate.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 5:20pm
Posted by marybretbrad at 04/25/2008

No I was asking about Rambo. In one of the movies wasn't he in like Colorado or something? Killed a bunch of cops?

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 5:21pm
Posted by marybretbrad at 04/25/2008

Ok I couldn't remember. My friend has the Rambo box set and I couldn't remember if that was a part of Rambo or someone else.

Funny though because a lot of those movies are still created by liberals. I work in film I don't know too many Republicans who do. Most everyone in my office is Dem or center.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 5:23pm
Wow if you google John McCain and David Duke apparently a decent enough amount of people are calling for David Duke to be McCain's VP. I don't think that would go over so well with him running against Obama. I don't even want to know what Duke would say on the campaign trail about Obama.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 5:24pm
Selected honors and awards

2008 Doctor honoris causa, École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne[128]

2008 Dan David Prize: "Social Responsibility with Particular Emphasis on the Environment."[129]

2008 The Gore resolution (HJR712) passed by the Tennessee House of Representatives which honors Gore's "efforts to curb global warming."[130]

2007 Gothenburg Prize for Sustainable Development[131]

2007 Nobel Peace Prize with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) (environment)

2007 Primetime Emmy Award: Outstanding Creative Achievement in Interactive Television for Current TV (interactive technology)

2007 International Academy of Television Arts and Sciences: Founders Award for Current TV and for work in the area of global warming[132]

2007 Quill Awards: History/current events/politics, The Assault on Reason

2007 Prince of Asturias Award in Spain (environment)[133]

2007 The Sir David Attenborough Award for Excellence in Nature Filmmaking (environment)[134]

2007 Honorary Fellow, American Academy of Arts and Sciences[120]

2006 Quill Awards: History/current events/politics, An Inconvenient Truth

2005 Webby Awards: Lifetime Achievement Award (interactive technology)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore#Selected_honors_and_awards

Posted by hsuBfools at 04/25/2008 @ 5:28pm
Posted by marybretbrad at 04/25/2008

These aren't in response to that these are just side notes as I look through things.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 5:29pm
Posted by marybretbrad at 04/25/2008

I also never said he defended David Duke. That was only to say that he has a voting history on some issues that I really don't like.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 5:32pm
Posted by marybretbrad at 04/25/2008

No no the first website I linked was a white supremacist website.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 5:33pm
osted by marybretbrad at 04/25/2008

You have a good weekend too.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 5:33pm
I wish McCain's ties with televangelist Rod Parsley were getting more attention. Parsley's comments about Islam border hate speech.

By the way, this new format is a terrible eyesore. The sight is far more difficult to navigate and far less easy to look at.

Posted by Butler at 04/25/2008 @ 5:53pm
Oops, damn those homonyms: sight/cite.

Posted by Butler at 04/25/2008 @ 5:54pm
See this is the thing I have observed so far. Republicans are saying McCain has already been vetted and can't possibly have any attack ads against him but he can.

A simple one would picture of McCain in Senate with David Duke nearby, V.O kicks in "David Duke, former Grand Master of the KKK, supports McCain on his votes against Civil Rights do you?"

Another would be a picture of McCain with George Wallace Jr. V.O "McCain supported George Wallace Jr. a member of the C of CC, a group akin to the KKK, in his bid for election into a government position. Is that who you want representing you?"

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 6:03pm
Funny too because I could make those adds in a day at home.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008 @ 6:04pm
Hey, I didn't know that PA had 3 different set of poll numbers for Barack. That's, er, different...

http://tinyurl.com/5heen7

Posted by hsuBfools at 04/25/2008 @ 6:14pm
an overriding organization that's powerful enough to arrange a series of events so effective that Al Gore would receive just about every kind of award one

Posted by hsuBfools at 04/25/2008

Hsub...give me the NAME of that organization that's going to get the nomination for Gore if he wants it? What are they called?

"the Illuminati"?

Posted by Mask at 04/25/2008 @ 7:18pm
BTW, MBB/Daris is simply playing his "double standard" routine again.

There are no "acceptable fringes on the Right who given a wink and a nod".

Somebody on the Left shakes hands with Hugo Chavez, it's proof that "All liberals love brutal dictators"...

Pat Robertson does BUSINESS with Charles Taylor of Liberia and it's "an isolated incident and no mainstream Repub is saying they love Charles Taylor, so it's TOTALLY different!"

He tries to cop this attitude of "open-minded, just, fair and well-thought-out"...

but it's RIO BRAVO "Demoncrat" stuff with sugar on top!

Posted by Mask at 04/25/2008 @ 7:23pm
http://tinyurl.com/3hbv8a

That type of stuff is why I don't like your candidate.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/25/2008

This is really distorting history. McCain joined most Republicans in the Senate in supporting President Bush because the White House felt the language of the bill would implement quotas. What CCCOMFO1 and others like Huffington Post fail to note is that a revised bill was written and passed in 1991. A bill that John McCain voted for.

http://tinyurl.com/3pdqcy

and the reporting on the veto in 1990

http://tinyurl.com/4ap83u

Posted by lvliberty1 at 04/25/2008 @ 8:50pm
I agree with everyone else, this new format is terrible. Maybe they are trying to cut down on the blogging activity?

Posted by lvliberty1 at 04/25/2008 @ 8:53pm
I agree with everyone else, this new format is terrible. Maybe they are trying to cut down on the blogging activity?

Posted by lvliberty1 at 04/25/2008 @ 8:53pm
maybe we will have to go cold turkey for a week or so. Maybe then they will realize that this change just doesn't work

Posted by lvliberty1 at 04/25/2008 @ 9:33pm
after I clicked submit on my latest posting, it took me back to the home page for the blogs.

See you later.

Posted by lvliberty1 at 04/25/2008 @ 9:34pm
I was NEVER Offended by Rev Wright- knew exactly what he was referring to -Not AmericaN (the ones sitting in the Pews or anywhere else) But America INC and the Racist, sexist, war & ahte mongers like Hagee, paisley, Farwell, Robertson, Buchanan- the immoral unethical ego maniacs who crawled out to th ewood work in the '80s claiming to be "Moral" and a "Majority" -which they were neither- just snake oil Profiteers! I've gotta go - watching Rev Wright w/ Morley tonight. I'm excited to hear him speak and I'm an atheist, first honest Relgious leader I've heard since...??? sorry Recovered Catholic, haven't ever heard an honest One.

Posted by Purple girl at 04/25/2008 @ 9:58pm
I just watched the Bill Moyers interview with Rev. Jeremiah Wright on PBS. That is what journalism should be. That is who a pastor should be.

Posted by julien38 at 04/25/2008 @ 10:59pm
god loves those who do his work without expectation of reward "best". So infinite love varies, more in some cases, les in others?

Posted by winyahn at 04/25/2008 @ 11:58pm
Wow, with firefox this new format's a disaster. Wish it were just an April fool's thing.

Posted by winyahn at 04/26/2008 @ 12:03am
Yes, John Hagee is far, far outside of the mainstream.

∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞ • marybretbrad • ∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞&# 8734;

the problem arises that the appeal of the UNmainstream increases in times of economic stress and/or public "security" anxieties.

like now, for example.

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/26/2008 @ 12:35am
&# 8734;

what the fork is that!?

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/26/2008 @ 12:35am
Parsley's

Posted by Butler

™™™™™™ that guy has the wildest eyes. ¡¡¡¡¡DEMONS!!!!! ™™™™™™

Oops, damn those homonyms: sight/cite.

Posted by Butler at 04/25/2008

homophones, i believe is the correcterest term.

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/26/2008 @ 12:44am
god loves the moral atheist - he or she who does the right thing and works for decency without expectation of reward.

Posted by ibbleblibble

well, a continental breakfast is a nice touch...................

and maybe some of the shampoo samples.

blasted be this webblob wreckage into suckage!!

i want my italics.............

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/26/2008 @ 01:02am
Saturday, April 26, 2008 1:06:46 AM

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/26/2008 @ 01:03am
Oops, damn those homonyms: sight/cite.

Posted by Butler at 04/25/2008

homophones, i believe is the correcterest term.

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/26/2008

...and 'site', the word yourwere seeking.

This is useless in Opera. Rendered beautimously in the old format.

Pure evil...making me choose between Opera and The Nation.

--he submitted previewlessly

Posted by Malcontent at 04/26/2008 @ 02:14am
The jury is still out on this new format. As Hillary would say, I don't think The Nation has done the necessary spade work up to this point.

Posted by Next Door at 04/26/2008 @ 1:49pm
, I'm generally a change-is-bad kind of guy (does that surprise anyone).

Posted by marybretbrad at 04/26/2008

well, don't forget that today's status quo was yesterday's change.

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/26/2008 @ 2:43pm
2:47 pm

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/26/2008 @ 2:45pm
Posted by ibbleblibble at 04/26/2008

I have to agree so much on that. So many things this country believe to be true are such delusions. People think the opinion of the world doesn't matter when you live in America. They think we are above everyone else. They think Americans are better than everyone else. You aren't better than anyone just because you came out of a woman on American soil. You are just lucky, that's it. You should watch Chris Rock talk about it, he makes quite a poignant statement about the mentality of many Americans and how deluded they are to think they are better than someone else just because they were lucky enough to be born here instead of someone else.

People think America is forever. That's the same thing the Romans thought. On top of that in the study of the fall of empires we are where Rome was right before their fall. Maybe we should start paying attention to these things. Every empire has fallen except for China. We will go too. America is not forever, we are not better than anyone else.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/26/2008 @ 7:07pm
Posted by marybretbrad at 04/26/2008

No, Darin, it's a double standard by which those on your side of the political spectrum get a pass or an excuse for activities just as heinous as the Left...or even 1/10th that of the Left.

As I noted...Pat Robertson did BUSINESS with Charles Taylor, a brutal dictator. What does that indicate to you?...why nothing, Robertson's "not mainstream". No, he just ran for PRESIDENT as a Republican and won Iowa in 1988.

Or Rumsfeld shakes hands with Saddam, smiles galore, and then 15 years later calls him a modern Hitler...and everybody is supposed to forget the photo from the mid-80s.

But...if a LIBERAL or even slightly left of center personage had shaken hands with a lesser thug like Hugo Chavez...or TALKED about doing business with a socialist African leader like Mugabe...

why then you see that as a TOTAL indictment of your political opposites and abdication of their credibility.

And why?

One simple reason....political ideology, not morality or ethics or a single standard.

But a double one.

Posted by Mask at 04/26/2008 @ 7:28pm
i wonder in darin ever gets gas at citgo.......

Sunday, April 27, 2008 1:17:43 AM

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/27/2008 @ 01:13am
I seem to remember that Reagan and company helped Osama at one time, and Reagan helped Saddamm, are there any on the REICH who are not corrupt hypocrits ?

Posted by ams@50 at 04/27/2008 @ 01:59am
no stretchy box using Mozilla Seamonkey, no HTML means no live links to ref, no bold, italics or colors. Teeny-tiny input box blows ...

Posted by leftofcenter at 04/27/2008 @ 10:33am
It is incredibly rare for someone in middle America to know a person who say, "Che is my idol because he butchered those fucking oppressive pigs."---Posted by marybretbrad at 04/27/2008

And THAT is just as rare to hear from the Left, despite what YOU think.

And again, think there weren't a few Operation: Rescue/Randall Terry types out there quietly, but amongst their own, cheering on Eric Rudolph?

No...wait..of COURSE you don't...because you only think the "bad guys" are on the Left, while the ones on the right are "just racist grandmas and a skin-head or two that Dubya isn't hugging, so that means WE are 'middle America'!"

And again, before 9/11...worst terrorist attack on American soil? Hints--City in Middle America (smack dab in the middle almost)....and culprit wasn't a "left-winger blowing up an ROTC building"...but a guy and his buddy firmly ensconsced on the anarchist Right.

Posted by Mask at 04/27/2008 @ 1:12pm
BTW, once again...this new website format...sucks.

Posted by Mask at 04/27/2008 @ 1:13pm
marybretbrad at 04/27...

Your journey from

- - -I'm trying to help you understand the psychology of middle Americans.- - -

to

- - -If you see that as a double standard, well tough shit.- - -

was water under the bridge... a bridge made by those two assertions.

Posted by ttr at 04/27/2008 @ 1:31pm
you can only see 1/3 of the post above!

gives me scroll fatigue.

Sunday, April 27, 2008 2:29:05 PM

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/27/2008 @ 2:25pm
"the Illuminati"?

Posted by Mask at 04/25/2008

Would an 'illuminatus' by any other name smells as...?

Posted by hsuBfools at 04/27/2008 @ 2:41pm
- - -The above comments perfectly indicate the danger of going with something new, and untested, just to make a change (without direction). Hint!- - -

Very funny, Euler...;^)

I didn't know what all the complaining was about... until I tried this site with firefox...

I like it, and it'll be up to snuff in no time...

Each thread is all on one page... the time signature is gone... you can go 'home' from the bottom of the page... those scowling candidate and pundit ads are safely off to the side so I can slide the browser over and just not see 'em... and 'we the posters' have been safely put into our places with fewer options for text embellishment than ever...;^) ... which might 'help' us stay on topic...

Posted by ttr at 04/27/2008 @ 3:35pm
Posted by Euler at 04/27/2008

Funny considering the only way for Hillary TO win is with superdelegates.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/27/2008 @ 5:27pm
Posted by Euler at 04/27/2008

On top of that IF she has the popular vote which I will find out right now it is tenuous and I guarantee it with looking at the election map she will lose it in the next few states so be careful what you wish for.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/27/2008 @ 5:29pm
Posted by Euler at 04/27/2008

http://tinyurl.com/5ar78n

Here is a fun video of WHY the assertion is wrong. No she didn't win the popular vote by the way.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/27/2008 @ 5:32pm
These hosts are terrible by the way but they make the point well enough.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/27/2008 @ 5:33pm
Posted by Euler at 04/27/2008

Shouldn't we in fact apply your argument to Obama since you were disproven and vote him into office since we don't want to have a repeat? Or does that only apply when it is referencing Hillary?

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/27/2008 @ 5:35pm
Posted by Malcontent : They're synonyms - check your shit before you try to call someone out on it . . .

Posted by Butler at 04/27/2008 @ 6:36pm
Posted by Marybretbrad: "People in middle America don't like people who are too impatient to solve the problem non-violently."

You mean people like George W. Bush?

Posted by Butler at 04/27/2008 @ 6:39pm
"People in middle America don't like people who are too impatient to solve the problem non-violently."

Funny because people in middle America are also the ones who want to go to war the quickest. Oh well guess hypocrites exist in large numbers there too.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/27/2008 @ 7:00pm
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/27/2008 

Yeah, the hosts are pretty terrible. Also, R.J. Eskow's argument is awful. Just wanted to put that out there.

Posted by Thrawn at 04/27/2008 @ 8:34pm
Posted by Malcontent : They're synonyms - check your shit before you try to call someone out on it . . .

Posted by Butler at 04/27/2008 |

"Sight" is a synonym for "site"?

Who's jumping who's shit?

Your mistake was unintentional and you tried to correct it...and compounded it.

Frosty pointed part of it out (nicely) and I pointed out the fact you still had the word wrong?

I guess I'll just leave that you were wrong again, about them being synonyms, alone and not tell you to "check your shit before you try to call someone out on it"

Take a valium, was merley an observation. Typos are especially inevitable, in this new format.

Posted by Malcontent at 04/27/2008 @ 9:09pm
Posted by Malcontent.

No, no, no. "Homophone" and "homonym" are synonyms. Jesus. Get a dictionary.

Posted by Butler at 04/28/2008 @ 12:23am
MoveOn just announced that John McCain's link to Hagee received national media attention; too bad it won't be as ubiquitous or scathing as the "news" about Jeremiah Wright.

Posted by Butler at 04/28/2008 @ 12:36am
Malcontent, sorry to be snippy. I've been grading essays . . . >:(

Posted by Butler at 04/28/2008 @ 12:56am
Posted by Butler at 04/28/2008

Not truly important, but you are confusing me with Frosty.

I merely pointed out, you probably meant "site". Not "sight" or "cite", as you corrected yourself.

I hope you are reading those essays more thoroughly, than this blog.

Lighten up.

Posted by Malcontent at 04/28/2008 @ 01:55am
"Site" it is . . . I didn't know that. I've been using "cite" for web pages.

By the way, place your punctuation marks inside your quotation marks, omit the comma between "thoroughly" and "than," and add a "that," rather than a comma, between "out" and "you."

;)

Posted by Butler at 04/28/2008 @ 08:27am
(That's the kind of crap I d0 with those essays).

Posted by Butler at 04/28/2008 @ 08:31am
And yes, I'm pretty anal about that stuff, but I see it as helpful, given that the content of someone's language is often judged by it's vehicle.

I'm sorry I didn't take the same into consideration with your commentary.

I really don't aspire to put the "dick" in "dictionary."

Posted by Butler at 04/28/2008 @ 08:40am
Posted by marybretbrad at 04/28/2008

So, we're in the business of spending TRILLIONS of dollars and THOUSANDS of American lives...

to get people to comply with the United Nations?

(Gear switch from MBB arriving shortly...heheh)

Posted by Mask at 04/28/2008 @ 09:05am
We tried to get Saddam to comply

Posted by marybretbrad at 04/28/2008

¿we?

Posted by frosty zoom at 04/28/2008 @ 10:25am
Posted by marybretbrad at 04/26/2008 |

When I first got on here it WAS all one page. Then they went to that crazy 50 to t page, and now this. And without bold the only way to yell at the tech support is to DO IT IN CAPS.

Posted by leftofcenter at 04/28/2008 @ 11:23am
I really don't aspire to put the "dick" in "dictionary."

Posted by Butler at 04/28/2008

According to my dicktionary, the peroid does not belong in the quotes, because it is not the period, on the end of a sentence, that I quoted. It is the perion for the end of My sentence, which contains a word in quotes, to denote it as an object of discussion, not a part of my sentence.

I have always tended to excessive commas and run-on sentences. Too many commas beats too few, as far as readability goes.

If you start diagraming sentences, I may have to kill you. ;o)

Eric

Posted by Malcontent at 04/28/2008 @ 10:01pm
Posted by Rio Bravo at 04/29/2008 | ignore this person

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. John 8:7 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. John 8:15-16 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Matthew 7:1-2

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again. Luke 6:37-38 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. James 4:11

Posted by BizarroRio at 04/29/2008 @ 10:45am
I hate this new site. No HTML??

Posted by BizarroRio at 04/29/2008 @ 10:46am