Buzzflash
del.icio.us
Digg
Facebook
Mixx it!
RedditThe media managers of the 2008 presidential contest worked for months to get Dennis Kucinich off the stage and out of the running. And they have finally succeeded, as the Ohio Congressman says he is now "transitioning out of the presidential campaign" and into a tough Democratic primary race for reelection to his Cleveland-area U.S. House seat.
Kucinich's decision to quit the Democratic presidential race is an acknowledgement of reality. Never flush with the funds needed to buy paid media, he has lately been denied access to the free media that is the lifeblood of insurgent candidacies. The congressman was excluded from the last few debates by the television networks, and his campaign events -- even those that drew substantial crowds in New Hampshire and Michigan – went largely uncovered.
The casual dismissal of what for Kucinich was always a sincere, issue-oriented endeavor made it easy for critics at home -- led by the virulently anti-Kucinich Cleveland Plain Dealer newspaper -- to ridicule a campaign that raised critical issues as little more than an ego trip. That encouraged challengers to enter the March 4 Democratic primary contest for Ohio's 10th District House seat.
The critics claim that Kucinich has neglected his constituents in order to pursue what Bill Clinton might refer to as a "fairytale" campaign for a nomination that was never realistically within reach. "Our district is heading in the wrong direction because we have an absentee congressman," says Cleveland City Councilman Joe Cimperman, whose primary challenge to Kucinich has been generously funded by special-interest groups that disdain the incumbent's independent streak.
Kucinich, who flew to Cleveland rather than to South Carolina or California after the New Hampshire primary in which his campaign received more votes than the "serious" candidacy of debate-regular and one-time media darling Fred Thompson, was anything but an absentee congressman during his presidential run. If anything, the congressman neglected the national race in order to spend time in his district and on the floor of the House -- where he maintained a far steadier attendance record than the senators against whom he was running for the presidential nomination.
The congressman's greatest attention to his district during the course of the presidential campaign took the form of his focus on the economic issues that are most important to a working-class district that includes portions of the city of Cleveland and neighboring blue-collar suburbs. Even as he discussed the essential subject of the war in Iraq, Kucinich usually did so in the context of a discussion about the cost the war was imposing not just on the distant battlefields of Iraq but on the American cities from which needed federal funds have been diverted to fund a fool's mission in the Middle East.
Much is made of the populist turn the presidential race has taken as economic conditions have worsened. But when none of the other candidates were taking pointed stands on trade policy, the mortgage crisis and real health-care reform, it was Kucinich who staked out precise positions and forced the other candidates to offer working Americans more than mere rhetoric.
The AFL-CIO extended an enthusiastic invitation to Kucinich to participate in the labor federation's August debate in Chicago because union leaders knew that he alone would guide the debate toward specifics on questions of how to reform free-trade agreements, renew industries and protect the rights of workers to organize. At that debate, it was Kucinich who earned the loudest applause. And rightly so. He was bringing the concerns of cities like Cleveland to the national stage.
One of things that most debate moderators found so frustrating about Kucinich was his determination to talk about the bread-and-butter issues that matter most to working Americans, rather than to play their games. Kucinich forced the anchormen and the reporters, as well as the other candidates, to pay a little attention to the problems of factory workers, shop clerks and farmers. There is no question that the Ohioan's determination to do this influenced more prominent and well-funded contenders, especially former North Carolina Senator John Edwards.
Kucinich never got much credit from the media or the other candidates. But he influenced the national debate for the better, and the race for the Democratic presidential nomination is diminished by his exit.
It is not just Kucinich who is leaving the national stage. It is the discussion about cities like Cleveland and Detroit and Milwaukee. Mayors have bemoaned the neglect of urban affairs in this year's campaign, but the former big-city mayor never allowed that neglect to become complete. Now, it may be, as least as far as the presidential race in concerned. But the congressman's determination to retain his House seat points to the likelihood that Congress will still be called upon to consider the concerns of a city on Lake Erie and the so frequently-forgotten people who live there.
Share this article
John Nichols
Breaking news and analysis on political, social, economic and cultural activism that mainstream media commonly ignore.
- Atrios
- Arts and Letters Daily
- The Caucus
- Campus Progress
- Crooks and Liars
- The Daily Gotham
- Daily Kos
- Echidne of the Snakes
- Ezra Klein
- FAIR
- Feministe
- Feministing
- Firedoglake
- Glenn Greenwald
- Gothamist
- In these Times
- Hendrik Hertzberg
- Huffington Post
- Hullabaloo
- Matthew Yglesias
- Media Matters
- Mother Jones
- My DD
- New York Review of Books
- Openleft
- Pam's House Blend
- Pandagon
- Political Wire
- The Progressive
- RaceWire
- Real Clear Politics
- Roberto Lovato
- Romenesko
- Swing State Project
- Talking Points Memo
- Ta-Nehisi Coates
- Tapped
- Tech President
- Tompaine
- The Washington Note
- Utne Reader
- Wonkette
- ZNet
RSS
oh well...whats done is done...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 01/24/2008 @ 11:10pm
NICHOLS: Kucinich's decision to quit the Democratic presidential race is an acknowledgement of reality.....Mayors have bemoaned the neglect of urban affairs in this year's campaign, but the former big-city mayor never allowed that neglect to become complete.
"Reality" comes slower to folks born on the slower lanes of life....glad to know, Dennis still retains some cognitive ability.
Now, I commented on Dennis NOT representing his Cleveland district well on an earlier thread. Now, why didn't Dennis campaign on urban renewal of the Rust Belt? I mean, as ex-mayor--like Rudy--he should have some economic plan--like Rudy's well-received plan--which we can identify w/him, right? Rather than his wife, UFOs, Impeach Looney, Defeat in Iraq, etc....
Posted by Happy at 01/24/2008 @ 11:45pm
with kucinich's exit...democratic discourse is marginally less shrill and cacaphonous...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 01/24/2008 @ 11:58pm
with kucinich's exit...democratic discourse is marginally less shrill and cacaphonous...
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 01/24/2008 @ 11:58pm
and substantially emptier.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 12:04am
...emptier.
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/25/2008 @ 12:04am
Wonder our very own Empty has been one, or several, of the Newbies that sound just like Oldie.
Posted by Happy at 01/25/2008 @ 12:14am
His message would reach more people if he came here and blogged with us.
Posted by FRANKGRITS 01/25/2008 @ 12:21am
i already have
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 12:34am
just kidding
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 12:34am
Never was sure about him, except that he was a bad campaigner. I wonder of how many of the dark stories about his past that I heard (race baiting and being pro-life up until 2004) were started by the Plains Dealer? I didn't realize his home paper had it out for him.
Oh well. I wonder if he will endorse Obama or endorse no one. Those are the only two options I see. I think Feingold's quote the other day expressed the skepticism of the progressive caucus about Edwards (their personal experience with him was likely all negative). But I am not sure whether Kucinich's decision to throw his voters towards Obama in Iowa was a pro-Obama or anti-Clinton move. It will be interesting to see. Also be interesting to see how big a deal Obama makes of a Kucinich endorsement, if he gets it. Obama has been losing lots of support to Edwards among the netroots. I am guessing something similar has been happening among non-aligned left wing activists. Playing up a Kucinich endorsement would help with that.
Posted by dentedpat at 01/25/2008 @ 01:11am
very funny, fz :-)
Whatever becomes of Kucinich now, the fact that his role was a crucial one cannot be argued by anyone who understands the importance of truth-tellers in a presidential campaign --no matter how marginalized by the media, or even how fruity they may occasionally be as individuals.
And I actually enjoyed Dennis's UFO debate moment as pure entertainment. I mean, we should all admit that a little kookery is not in itself a bad thing ;-) We see more than our fair share right here in these threads whenever BS River, Sad Sack (above @ 11:45 pm high), Reverend Run ("LV Liberty"), Pointy Ficus, Monsta' Maasch, Slither, In Thrall, Freiheit, and whole host of holy horrors show up to project their delusional mindsets onto the fine progressive sensibilities here at The Nation.
Now let's gather together, right to left, and fight for a cure to Clintonitis. Symptoms of that disease include self-importance, phoniness, habitual lying, a win at all costs mentality (even if it might mean severely damaging the nation), possessing the ethical discernment of Joe Bonanno (or Tony Soprano if you prefer), a predilection for abusing your authority to bed down big boobed bimbos (in Bill's case), or to berate and/or jettison loyal appointees or gurus (in Hillary's case).
The best way to avoid the royal pain of a Clinton campaign, and it's all too likely miserable failure in November (or maybe even worse, a win in November) is to repudiate the two-headed monster now, before it eats Barack Obama, itself, and the entire country in a frothing fit of power hungry rage.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/25/2008 @ 01:25am
Hey, Dented Pat :-)
How's the school thing going?
I trust all is well.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/25/2008 @ 01:28am
I am disappointed, but not surprised, to see Mr Kucinich withdraw from the race. I would like to believe that his candidacy has helped to embolden other Democrats to speak the truth to power, but I myself think that perhaps only Mr Edwards really gets it. Neither Mrs Clinton, nor the bipartisan-intoxicated Mr Obama recognise that capital in the America has been engaged in systematic, downward class war with working class people for the past 30 years. This is why the median wage bears no relation to productivity gains and corporate profits. American workers have been systematically cheated of the prosperity that they have helped to create. This is the truth that only Kucinich, and perhaps Edwards, have dared to speak.
From where I now live in Australia it is obvious that the only candidate for president that a fair-dinkum trade unionist could support with a whole heart was Mr Kucinich.
I do sometimes wonder what it will take for working class Americans to stand up and say, 'I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!'
Posted by Ex-pat Ohioan at 01/25/2008 @ 03:08am
damn it...I was hoping to vote for him in the primaries...spare myself from having to pick between tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum.
Posted by jro555 at 01/25/2008 @ 08:43am
Forget H. Marshall McLuhan's well-worn adage that the medium is the message."
The more important rule is: "Money makes a megaphone."
If you haven't got the money, then the only way you can make yourself heard over the dull roar of the establishment's high-powered megaphones is to yell until you're hoarse. Your reward, in addition to laryngitis, is to hear the sheeplike spinners of conventional wisdom bleat that you're "shrill" and that your words are "cacophony."
If you've got the money, then it doesn't make any difference that your wife regularly consults astrologers -- as Nancy Reagan famously did. If you haven't got the money, then all that most ignorant shmoes "know" about you is that you believe in UFOs.
"Seriousness," "credibility," "gravitas," "character": We should know by now that all these things, or better yet, the glitzy semblance of these things, can be bought. Merely speaking the truth, merely taking one principled stand after another, and merely practicing what you preach -- all these deeds entitle you to nothing but dismissal.
The great thing about Dennis Kucinich is that he's genuine. (And don't write him off yet, at least as a force to be reckoned with in a more Democratic Congress.) Because Kucinich, unlike virtually any other politician, is no less honest than he appears to be, no less courageous than he appears to be, no less principled than he appears to be. He hasn't a hypocritical hair on his head.
If we prefer a politician who "looks" more "presidential" to one who would BE a better President, then all I can say is that we deserve what we get.
Didn't the US-American voting public prove its superficiality in 2004, when it rejected a real war hero, John Kerry, for somebody who merely looked like one?
Posted by JakobFabian at 01/25/2008 @ 08:52am
Posted by JAKOBFABIAN 01/25/2008 @ 08:52am
It's a simple equation. Dennis didn't have the money because...
nobody (or very few) were SENDING it to him.
Ron Paul raised millions...he was the "kook fringe anti-war" candidate on the Republican side, ignored by the Media, and yet when he set off one of his "money bombs", the cash rolled in.
Kucinich had one....and raised $131,000 (less than 1/10 what Paul did).
So either there were a LOT of Kucinich supporters who couldn't muster more than a buck to send him....or there WEREN'T a lot of Kucinich supporters....which means in the democratic process, his views were not popular.
Posted by Mask at 01/25/2008 @ 09:01am
Dear "Mask,"
Having only a "few" people send you campaign money is no problem if they're big spenders.
Promising big tax breaks, which Ron Paul does as well as any Republican, is one way to reel in at least a few big spenders.
None of this is news, "Mask." Just because we're all used to the stench of plutocracy doesn't mean that it's gone away.
Posted by JakobFabian at 01/25/2008 @ 09:07am
Clintonitis.
Posted by B_KOOL_66 01/25/2008 @ 01:25am
inflammation of the clinton?
yuck.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 09:11am
I do sometimes wonder what it will take for working class Americans to stand up and say, 'I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!'
Posted by EX-PAT OHIOAN 01/25/2008 @ 03:08am
cut off their cable...............
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 09:13am
Posted by JAKOBFABIAN 01/25/2008 @ 09:07am
Sorry, wrong.
Paul had 130,000 donors. If Dennis had 130,000 donors, but only raised $131,000 that means HIS folks were so cheap they could only send about $1.01.
Paul's donors were small donors and a LOT of them.
Kucinich's donors were small donors and FEW of them.
DK had no excuse, except that he just wasn't popular.
Posted by Mask at 01/25/2008 @ 09:33am
"And I have to say I find it creepy that at 61, Dennis is twice as old as his 30-year old bride."
Posted by MARYBRETBRAD 01/25/2008 @ 09:43am
Well Darin, that's what old men like DK does. I have a creepy old neighbor who's always asking me to stop by for a visit.
Posted by ACook at 01/25/2008 @ 10:04am
"Now let's gather together, right to left, and fight for a cure to Clintonitis..."
Posted by B_KOOL_66 01/25/2008 @ 01:25am
Now, that's funny....
Posted by ACook at 01/25/2008 @ 10:15am
And I have to say I find it creepy that at 61, Dennis is twice as old as his 30-year old bride.
Posted by MARYBRETBRAD 01/25/2008 @ 09:43am
hey dennis is vegan. i bet she's REAL happy.
and will be for years to come.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 10:40am
"Gore lost the state [FL] by (less than) 1000 votes."
Who let this right-wing, Conservative asshole in here? He didn't lose, it was stolen!"
(Posted by MARYBRETBRAD 01/24/2008 @ 6:15pm ) http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat/allcomments?pid=274889
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dear MaryBretBrad, sisterbrothernephew, in the last Nichols blog you referred to me as a right-wing asshole and asked who let me in here! The same folks let me in here as did you. When you descend into slanderous invective you slander yourself as well, revealing a lack of empowerment and I know you are better than this. Let's have an avuncular moment :)
Interesting, a large chunk of the national population sees Hillary as divisive, way too liberal. How could I find her to be acceptable, appealing?/ It comes from my own history of estrangement and healing. I am, to many, on the radical left fringe (altho not to you). I went to Michigan, 1965-69, in the AFROTC program and paid attention to the anti-war movement. While in US Air Farce pilot training, 69-70, I went to a meeting of the American Friends' Service Committee in San Antonio and met 1 A-O conscientious objector medics drafted into the army as medics. I got some copies of the underground GI rag, YOUR MILITARY LEFT and distributed them inside Randolph AFB. I also went to a meeting of the Black Panthers at a San Antonio church, listened to a woman who had returned from Cuba and the Venceremos Brigades, and sang "everybody's got a right to live!".\
I volunteered for Vietnam as a C-7A cargo pilot, flew a hearse, saw the entire theatre, spent a year there observing and learning, came home and joined the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. In January, 1972, I refused duty in KC-135 tankers, because I was not going to return to Southeast Asia and refuel B-52's and fighters in the ongoing air-war. I sufferred a complete estrangement from my family of origin. I hit the streets marching with VVAW in many street protests and wrote letters to the congress and the senate and had confirmation from one senator, a former hawk, who changed his mind and voted to end the bombing via the Church-Hatfield amendment.
My anger and despair opver the next ten years was so severe that I could not keep a regular job and became a low-life transient. I dis manage to drive taxi for several years nights in Detroit while taking art classes at Wayne State. I lived in a black world. It was good. I learned about a greater humanity.
In 1982, I started healing at a vet center program. I was in a group of Vietnam Vets. One of them told the group that he would kill an anti-war protester if he saw one, and I told him about myself. We accepted one another, our different points of view, and came home again. Later, I became a part of a book on war resisters in the military during the Vietnam War.
In 1988, I spent my first winter in Florida sleeping in my car on a bridge approach where the fisherfolk were out at night. I worked as a laborer, saved some money for rent, got a room in St Pete, and worked-studied my way into nursing, found a community, healed.
I have been active in peace and social justice, spoke at the gates of MacDill Air Farce Base in January, 2003, warning against the war in Iraq. I am a member of Vets for Peace and VVAW and continue to write letters to the congress and senate and to newspapers and, yes, The Nation, a profound magazine. I still hit the streets occasionally to protest as well. I guess this is not left-wing enough for you.
Yes, I voted Green in 2000, and am full aware that the Republicans invalidated a large number of Democratic votes as well as the fact that 25000 poeple alone in tampa Bay voted for Nader, and that some of us were breakaway Democrats. I have given money to Dennis Kuchinich and recall one of his salient points: It's not how much money the federal government has, but how that money is spent. And yes, I am voting for Hillary Clinton in the January 29th Florida primary.
I am asking you, MaryBretBrad, what is it that you have done and what are you now doing, to help steer this nation into a more productive direction, beyond negative invectives and immature behavior?
Posted by Jim Willingham at 01/25/2008 @ 10:54am
Posted by JIM WILLINGHAM 01/25/2008 @ 10:54am
ever been to the DALI museum?
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 11:17am
Posted by MARYBRETBRAD 01/25/2008 @ 09:36am
'fraid that theory doesn't hold water. Most of the DK supporters I've seen (and that's a lot) are pretty middle class liberals or "progressives" and since they're a lot of BLOGGERS, they obviously have money to pay an ISP or go to a cafe or to a university. They're problem was...there weren't that MANY of them.
If DK had been popular and his views popular, he'd have raised more than $131,000 ...he wasn't, they weren't, that's it.
Posted by Mask at 01/25/2008 @ 11:26am
Posted by JIM WILLINGHAM 01/25/2008 @ 10:54am
JIM, not an excuse, but I believe in that original comment from MBB ((Posted by MARYBRETBRAD 01/24/2008 @ 6:15pm )) he was being sarcastic.
As the "talking point" from the Naderites is "Gore lost 2000, it wasn't Ralph's fault!"...which is numerically false.
As I've said numerous times, if the Florida Nader vote had shifted just ONE PERCENT (930 votes) to Gore...he'd have taken Florida and the election. If Nader himself had been less of an egotist and seen how close Florida and other "swing states" were and said "Okay, do 'vote trading', but Gore and Bush are NOT 'exactly the same'"....Gore would have won more EC votes than he needed.
On other matters, you'll find MARYBRETBRAD (actually a male named "Darin") is a right-winger and you'll find, sarcasm aside, plenty to disagree with him on.
Posted by Mask at 01/25/2008 @ 11:30am
nice resume Jim.
ever been to the DALI museum?
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/25/2008 @ 11:17am | ignore this person
how does this relate?
Dali was a hack, a lovable one but a hack nonetheless. one whose reputation has descended rapidly.
ever been to see the Duchamp wing at the Philadelphia museum?
Posted by emile duBois at 01/25/2008 @ 11:59am
I like Dennis Kucinich, not leastwise because he's not above confident and good-humored self-effacement on the Daily Show and with Stephen Colbert.
I suppose I have to plead guilty, however, to the charge of "cheapness" because I never contributed monetarily.
Still, I'm proud the Florida Congressman Wexler is pressing for impeachment procedings to commence against Darth Cheney.
Posted by lewwelge at 01/25/2008 @ 12:05pm
Posted by EMILE DUBOIS 01/25/2008 @ 11:59am
the museum's around the corner from mr. willingham's house.
plus, he's a fellow wayne stater.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 12:33pm
Vegans don't eat meat, right? How does that imply she'll be satisfied?
Posted by MARYBRETBRAD 01/25/2008 @ 12:28pm
try it for a while. you'll SEE.
"62% of those interviewed reported that thier sex lives have improved. We noted above that a common physical change is for people to experience an increase in their level of energy and endurance after eliminating meat from their diets. Not surprisingly, these enhanced capabilities are sometimes said to yeild certain benefits in the bedroom: I feel healthier and have more energy and vitality. And this adds to my positive feelings about sex. Another person adds: This diet has made me feel sexier since I am thinner and have almost unlimited sexual energy. I have clear skin that is virtually wrinkle-free, even at age 35."
http://www.newveg.av.org/vegansex.htm
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 12:37pm
I have clear skin that is virtually wrinkle-free, even at age 35."
35? hahahahahaha.
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/25/2008 @ 12:37pm | ignore this person
now who's bragging?
Posted by emile duBois at 01/25/2008 @ 12:42pm
Still, I'm proud the Florida Congressman Wexler is pressing for impeachment procedings to commence against Darth Cheney.----Posted by LEWWELGE 01/25/2008 @ 12:05pm
No, he's raising money for the Bob Wexler Re-election Campaign on that site.
Of course that's only obvious to the non-oblivious.
Posted by Mask at 01/25/2008 @ 12:47pm
Obama can be the Left's Reagan.
oh, I hope not. out of touch with reality? illegal foreign policy made in the basement? no thanks.
Posted by emile duBois at 01/25/2008 @ 12:52pm
Posted by MARYBRETBRAD 01/25/2008 @ 09:36am
Kucinich's main message is, "More collectivsm will make America a better place."
I always thought his main message was "Strength Through Peace". Without him, the Democratic party has no candidate with peace as the centerpiece of their campaign and people that want a fundamental shift in our foreign policy, rather than just empty promises about getting out of Iraq, don't have any viable options in any of the candidates from the two major parties - with the exception of Ron Paul. Which means people like me who have this concern will either 1) vote for the lesser evil, 2) vote third party or 3) stay home.
Let us not forget that voting for the lesser evil, is still voting for evil.
Posted by srjenkins at 01/25/2008 @ 1:09pm
Posted by JRO555 01/25/2008 @ 08:43am
His name will likely stay on your ballot. You can still vote for him if you care to do so. He'll get my primary vote.
Posted by srjenkins at 01/25/2008 @ 1:12pm
Posted by SRJENKINS 01/25/2008 @ 1:09pm | ignore this person
are there any saints running?
Posted by emile duBois at 01/25/2008 @ 1:21pm
now who's bragging?
Posted by EMILE DUBOIS 01/25/2008 @ 12:42pm
not MY testimony.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 1:22pm
oh, I hope not. out of touch with reality? illegal foreign policy made in the basement? no thanks.
Posted by EMILE DUBOIS 01/25/2008 @ 12:52pm
don't forget dribble down.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 1:24pm
are there any saints running?
Posted by EMILE DUBOIS 01/25/2008 @ 1:21pm
reagan's dead.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 1:24pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/25/2008 @ 1:22pm
Question for you: What should one feed a troll?
Posted by srjenkins at 01/25/2008 @ 1:30pm
Question for you: What should one feed a troll?
Posted by SRJENKINS 01/25/2008 @ 1:30pm
something to make their hair stand on end!
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 1:37pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/25/2008 @ 1:22pm | ignore this person
c'mon Zoomie, you brought it up. thinly veiled bragging then.
one more note about bragging. my "bragging" about being a better writer and having a better vocabulary was in the context of my english and command thereof was challenged. if it is a boast, it can easily be checked in my writing which is there fort all to see.
when Happy boasts of his investment successes and acumen, and when you boast of your spouse's satisfaction, there is no way to verify that.
Posted by emile duBois at 01/25/2008 @ 1:38pm
What should one feed a troll?
Posted by SRJENKINS 01/25/2008 @ 1:30pm
"Purina Troll Chow"?
Posted by Mask at 01/25/2008 @ 1:38pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/25/2008 @ 1:24pm | ignore this person
and like any saint he lives on and on, in the hearts of his followers. especially those running away from Bush.
Posted by emile duBois at 01/25/2008 @ 1:39pm
Posted by EMILE DUBOIS 01/25/2008 @ 1:38pm | ignore this person
a bit mangled, yes the irony.
Posted by emile duBois at 01/25/2008 @ 1:40pm
a bit mangled, yes the irony.
Posted by EMILE DUBOIS 01/25/2008 @ 1:40pm
karma never rests. and although i hadn't thought of it that way, i guess i was bragging, too.
how's this? -- don't eat meat and you'll feel much better. spiritually and physically.
personal anecdote, nothing more.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 1:47pm
how's this? -- don't eat meat and you'll feel much better. spiritually and physically.
personal anecdote, nothing more.
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/25/2008 @ 1:47pm | ignore this person
no good. change you'll to" I felt better".
Posted by emile duBois at 01/25/2008 @ 1:50pm
smoke crack at least once a day, and you'll feel better.
Posted by emile duBois at 01/25/2008 @ 2:15pm
I would like to see a study done comparing the number of MSM articles and wire reports on a certain candidate, to the amount of cash paid by that candidate for advertising buys. You don't see Ron Paul articles, even after he finished third, but you do see Rudy articles, notwithstanding his lousy showings so far - but he does have advertising money to spend. I think that is a far more likely cause of the concentration on Obama and Clinton than any fascination with celebrity. The media whores - at CNN, AP, Reuters, NBC, ABC, NYT, Time Warner and elsewhere - put out ONLY for the paying customers. Real Journalism is only found elsewhere. The pseudo-journalists killed the Kucinich Campaign and are now aiming by omission at Edwards. God forbid either Hillary or Barack should quit the campaign without spending their hundreds of millions on Ads!
Posted by sjduskin at 01/25/2008 @ 2:16pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/25/2008 @ 12:37pm
FZ, you know I like you very much, but there's just as many sexy meat eaters as there are vegans. And, as for this working woman, she's got to have some meat with her potatoes. Omnivious diet anyone?
BTW, I don't have wrinkles and I'll be 46 in the fall.
Posted by ACook at 01/25/2008 @ 2:17pm
'Vegetarians eat vegetables. But what does that say about humanitarians?' -- Groucho Marx
'Imagine no religion' -- John Lennon
'I'm afraid I can't, I have to stay here at the console and type numbers' -- John Locke
Posted by HonestLiberal at 01/25/2008 @ 2:23pm
Posted by MARYBRETBRAD 01/25/2008 @ 1:34pm
Show me where The Constitution guarantees you the right to always be presented a non-evil option.
Why is it that The Constitution is the reference point? And while you are looking at it, can you point to where it talks about a two-party system? Care to reflect a bit on the history of primaries - particularly a binding primary? Rather curious that you have likely been around longer than they have - if you are over 40 years old.
If there were easy solutions, there wouldn't be problems. If there were non-evil choices there wouldn't be evil.
Counter-example: You have a problem, rank B.O. There is an easy solution - good personal hygiene, deodorant, etc. You aren't aware of the problem. When made aware of the problem, you think your B.O. makes you more "manly". You don't recognize it as a problem.
Counter-example: A gunmen tells you that you he is giving you a choice: either he will force you at gunpoint to stab every member of your family or you can take him (the gunman) out to dinner.
You should work on your logic. Both of these were obvious examples of affirming the consequent.
Posted by srjenkins at 01/25/2008 @ 2:33pm
The powerstructure in the US, and basically all of the world REQUIRES war.
how about Europe? no war in 60 years between the formerly warring nations.
Posted by emile duBois at 01/25/2008 @ 2:46pm
smoke crack at least once a day, and you'll feel better.
Posted by EMILE DUBOIS 01/25/2008 @ 2:15pm
until your brain dries up.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 3:00pm
no good. change you'll to" I felt better".
Posted by EMILE DUBOIS 01/25/2008 @ 1:50pm
that's fine. if you want to go on eating rotting carcasses filled with steroids and antibiotics, go ahead.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 3:02pm
FZ, you know I like you very much, but there's just as many sexy meat eaters as there are vegans. And, as for this working woman, she's got to have some meat with her potatoes. Omnivious diet anyone?
BTW, I don't have wrinkles and I'll be 46 in the fall.
Posted by ACOOK 01/25/2008 @ 2:17pm
1) i don't care about wrinkles. i like having lots of energy.
2) meat eaters smell bad. and they taste worse ;+]
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 3:04pm
Dennis can now resume his full time job as the cover for MAD Magazine
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 01/25/2008 @ 2:43pm
good thing bush has been there to cover for him.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 3:06pm
Another sarcastic right winger?
Let's have some free advice worth something.
I believe that we will see a shift in foreign policy as well as a change in domestic priototies, yes
No I am not a fan of dali's but I dig the surrealist films and Duchamp but not Philly, had my car robbed in a guarded parking lot in Central City whilst visiting CCCO.
Nader and me helped the Repubs steal the election in Florita yes
things are awful right now and if the Dems don't show some real muscle towards change there will be a resilient left breakaway
Dennis needs to maintain his power base and work from there. There needs to be left of center debate, and will continue, I am left of hillarious Hillary, but I love her.
Posted by Jim Willingham at 01/25/2008 @ 3:29pm
that's fine. if you want to go on eating rotting carcasses filled with steroids and antibiotics, go ahead.
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/25/2008 @ 3:0
how do you know I'm not a vegetarian? no need for your attitude, you will not win converts that way.
I belong to a community supported agriculture group. we pay a yearly sum and the farmer brings weekly what he harvests that day, or perhaps the day before.
a few years ago the farmer began offering meat at the end of the season. beef and pork. he had to, he needed the animals for fertilizer production. this produced a split in the group, many of whom were vegetarians. for him it was a choice between the animals and using fertilizer.
full disclosure: I eat everything, meat, fowl fish, shellfish, rabbit. this allows me to avoid te holier than thou attitude that some vegetarians share.
Posted by emile duBois at 01/25/2008 @ 3:38pm
when in a Mexican restaurant I even eat those little dried grasshoppers, and of course snails and frog's legs. yum.
Posted by emile duBois at 01/25/2008 @ 3:41pm
2) "meat eaters smell bad. and they taste worse" ;+]
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/25/2008 @ 3:04pm
And meat eaters eat vegans... ;-)
Posted by ACook at 01/25/2008 @ 3:41pm
Posted by FREIHEIT 01/25/2008 @ 2:40pm
At heart, federalism is a collectivist idea. It is perfectly consistent with the COTUS. Literal readings of the COTUS are like literally reading the Bible - a vain hope that life is just an algorithm and people, clockwork oranges.
I agree that war is REQUIRED, but I would go further than your explanation. You argue that it is used in the 1984 sense of controlling populations by presenting an adversary, and positioning "leaders" that can deal with that adversary.
I think, in addition to the above, that significant spending by the government has a role in stablizing free market variation and preventing depressions. While it is possible to have spending on something like healthcare, for historical and other reasons, military expenditures and a "permanent war economy" have been the preference in the U.S. and works in conjunction with your observation of having some outside group to hate whether they were immigrants, anarchists, progressives, communists, terrorists, Islamo-fascists, liberals or whomever to focus people in a non-problematic way (to those behind the wheels of power that is).
It all works hand in glove, and people don't have much way of addressing this issue through the ballot - particularly if they aren't casting their vote in other ways, such as the products they buy, the behaviors they engage in (like Dennis's veganism) and so forth. People need to cast their whole vote, but the people behind the wheels of government have managed to keep the whole thing creaking along so that it doesn't wake the sleeping giant. Without that awakening, people with Dennis's views don't have a chance of changing anything.
Posted by srjenkins at 01/25/2008 @ 4:12pm
Posted by MARYBRETBRAD 01/25/2008 @ 4:04pm
Darin, that's not what the left wants to hear. IMHO, the Dems best hope dropped out and left them high and dry and I'm not talking about Dennis Kucinich. Now that Richardson has gone back to being governor of New Mexico, I can concentrate on how (and who) I will cast my vote for.
Posted by ACook at 01/25/2008 @ 4:17pm
..."people with Dennis's views don't have a chance of changing anything."
Posted by SRJENKINS 01/25/2008 @ 4:12pm
You got that right. That guy is one mad hatter.
Posted by ACook at 01/25/2008 @ 4:22pm
Much, I'm sure, to Frita's chagrin, my class did actually have a discussion for about 15-20 minutes about the presidential race per the dropping out of Dennis and Fred. Since it is a student's responsibility to gather up ‘Content' to comply with my course required projects or ‘Form': design being the study of ‘Form and Content'. The content becomes visual metaphor to the elements and concepts of design. The obvious concepts of balance and emphasis led us to discuss the weight of variety vs unity. Ultimately, the discussion led to achieving interest, attraction, (what Frita confuses with ‘reality' or ‘visual representation') – we distinguish as ‘believability'. Most people connect and spend more time with images that ‘feel' believable to them personally, directly, and are then able to interact and sustain a dialog. Achieving that ‘feeling' requires a state where the visual elements along with the concepts achieve the most weight or gravity per their interaction with the viewer. Thus, in a room filled with 10 paintings, most people will be attracted to the one painting that achieves the most ‘believability' even though each painting contains similar amounts of colors, values shapes, and lines--it's that one combining the right composition of those elements and utilizing the optimum interaction of the concepts of design with the presentation of content.
So what does that have to do with Dennis, Fred or even Bill, dropping out?
Posted by hsuBfools at 01/25/2008 @ 4:29pm
So what does that have to do with Dennis, Fred or even Bill, dropping out?
Posted by HSUBFOOLS 01/25/2008 @ 4:29pm | ignore this person
it helps to have a scheene punne
Posted by emile duBois at 01/25/2008 @ 4:31pm
a pretty face
Posted by emile duBois at 01/25/2008 @ 4:31pm
You think Hillary or Barack have pretty faces?
Posted by hsuBfools at 01/25/2008 @ 4:34pm
Wow - The Nation BB seems to attract trolls by the score. What kind of person would ruthlessly diss Kucinich except a corporate whore?
The Media took every chance they got to make Dennis look bad or trivialize him. The fact that NBC went to the State Supreme Court to keep him out of the debates shows how powerful Dennis really is.
Dennis brought meaningful discussion to the debates. What will they talk about now? Or will it all be a show of hands from here on out? Why do people call his UFO comments kooky? I'm sure those same people have living room discussions about UFOs every night after dinner. Even the USA has UFO policy documents.
Dennis is a genuine human being with a strong public service ethic, not a Hollywood prop or corporate shill like most other candidates. But those greedy conglomerate execs don't want their Profit Party to end with the next election. Right boys?
Posted by mr.moose at 01/25/2008 @ 4:35pm
You think Hillary or Barack have pretty faces?
Posted by HSUBFOOLS 01/25/2008 @ 4:34pm | ignore this person
of course. Hill looks a lot like Ellen Degeneris, who is I believe quite a bit younger.
Posted by emile duBois at 01/25/2008 @ 4:42pm
and just look at that photo of Barack right next to this text.
"handsome is as handsome does", Mrs Slocum
Posted by emile duBois at 01/25/2008 @ 4:45pm
Posted by ACOOK 01/25/2008 @ 4:22pm
What exactly do you find problematic? I've read comments here about his young wife, UFOs and veganism.
McCain's wife is 17 years his junior. But I guess he's so old and has been married long enough, no one wants to talk about that.
UFO simply means you saw something and you don't know what it is. It doesn't mean Close Encounters or being medically examined by aliens.
And veganism is become almost as mainstream as vegetarianism. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that drinking milk with growth hormone, cloned meat, factory farmed meat filled with anti-biotics might have negative effects on the body. Not to mention the moral implications of choosing to buy animal products that come from an environment like a factory farm.
So, leaving aside those issues, what else have you got?
Posted by srjenkins at 01/25/2008 @ 5:37pm
No, I think it was a standard understanding that politicos weren't supposed to look all that good and one would get rather suspicious if he/she were. Nowadays of course things are somewhat different. Still I do not see either Barack or Hillary as all that visually attractive nor would it matter to me that much. I'm pretty much inoculated as I've worked with models for years. Sets of visual information are abstractions to me know...
In any case that wasn't the point. The point was that one needs the right combination of attributes, not necessarily in harmony, but one that creates enough of a movement of emphasis that it allows an open and direct interaction with the public. Kucinich could've been a lot more competitive with a different presentation, setting, emphasis... He had the right content, the form just needed a better compositional arrangement to instill a dynamic mo. We say when one wants an active visual experience one does not use shapes that run parallel to the picture plane frame. One creates momentum by progressively arranging forms diagonal to the structural edges, thus forcing the eye to pay attention. One then uses nuanced elements, i.e. a marking system, to slow down the eye, create mood and in order to grab the viewer for a longer period of time.
Posted by hsuBfools at 01/25/2008 @ 5:57pm
Nice abstractions, Hsub, although a bit obtuse for moi. How does one "arrange forms diagonal to the structural edges"?
Posted by lewwelge at 01/25/2008 @ 6:07pm
http://tinyurl.com/269g5d
http://tinyurl.com/2exf2z
Two sets of very different content, yet it's the diagonals that capture your attention, move your eye, direct the energy. Of course it's analogy or metaphor, but when you make the right connections to presentation of ideas, the effect is the same-- attention.
Posted by hsuBfools at 01/25/2008 @ 6:27pm
Posted by EMILE DUBOIS 01/25/2008 @ 3:38pm
i know you're not a vegetarian because you posted the contents of your christmas dinner (or was it thanksgiving) and i remembered it contained meaty things (and a little strega, too).
all of which you said, in a big jake attempt at humour, was paid for with food stamps.
plus, i believe brannigan has recommended chicken backs to me.
my comment about carcasses was for youse, no one else.
i really don't care what people eat. i've eaten plenty of meat in my lifetime. (although it would reduce greenhouse gas emissions considerably if people reduced beef consumption).
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 6:45pm
Posted by HSUBFOOLS 01/25/2008 @ 6:27pm
if that were true, dennis would be president.
after all, he's the one who leans farthest to the left ;+]
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 6:47pm
Posted by HSUBFOOLS 01/25/2008 @ 6:27pm
you mean like these:
http://tinyurl.com/pl7j
http://tinyurl.com/2qsspo
http://tinyurl.com/28b6bd
http://tinyurl.com/2x59nc
http://www.unm.edu/~spanport/ssl/tamayo.jpg
thanks.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 7:07pm
"And veganism is become almost as mainstream as vegetarianism. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that drinking milk with growth hormone, cloned meat, factory farmed meat filled with anti-biotics might have negative effects on the body. Not to mention the moral implications of choosing to buy animal products that come from an environment like a factory farm."
So, leaving aside those issues, what else have you got?
Posted by SRJENKINS 01/25/2008 @ 5:37pm
As far as I know, the treatment of growth hormone on cattle is controversial at best. There are no current studies from the AMA or the FDA that conclusively link beef treated with rb-GH to have any negative effects on humans. When either agency bans it out right, I will discontinue eating that particular meat.
Now, I don't go around knocking vegans as much as vegans go around knocking those of us who perfer a more varied diet, which includes meat. From my perspective, heart disease or ACS could care less if your a vegan or meat eater. It kills equally.
Posted by ACook at 01/25/2008 @ 7:30pm
As far as veganism/vegetarianism goes....my rule is simple-
"I'll stop eating animals....when they stop eating each other!"
That tiger puts down his claws, and that shark puts away his jaws...I'll set down my fork and steak knife.
Posted by Mask at 01/25/2008 @ 7:40pm
Posted by HSUBFOOLS 01/25/2008 @ 4:29pm
How many of them asked how it would effect Al Gore winning the nomination at the brokered convention?
Posted by Mask at 01/25/2008 @ 7:42pm
Kucinich has started a new site at integrity now [integritynow.org]
Posted by lnh at 01/25/2008 @ 7:42pm
Was Kucinich for real? Did he ever have a chance? Was he a vanity candidate? A bad campaigner? Did he blow it? Did he disgrace our cause by losing? Well?
People, wake up! Kucinich did what he could and motivated many people, but not nearly enough, to get into action around the issues that we all (I presume) believe in and care about. His campaign might not have been the answer, but are we not better off because he ran? Where did he fail?
The answer, my friends, is in US. WE are the ones who need to build a great mass movement for change if anything is going to change. WE are the ones who need to organize the millions of disenfranchised, disillusioned and disaffected people (which description includes most of us, to be honest about it) and bring them into action. And when we do we will need people like Kucinich to help give us voice and leadership and the wisdom that comes from decades of passionate struggle.
I have posted on ten different websites - including this one - about what we need to do to build a movement that can contest for power in 2012. These posts received on average less than one comment per website, and not a single response that talked about the specifics, about how to build a movement that can win. People seem to be content to let a hero like Kucinich do it for us, and then to carp about it when he can't do it without us.
What's it going to take? We have this great medium available to us now, the Internet, on which to talk to each other about things like this. Well, let's start talking! Time to get serious, while we still have time!
ps. Don't forget to send Kucinich some money - at www.kucinich.us - to defend his seat. Our enemies have donated a huge amount of money to his opponents to try to knock him out and silence his voice in Congress. We can't let that happen!
Posted by CAH at 01/25/2008 @ 7:48pm
Was Kucinich for real? Did he ever have a chance? Was he a vanity candidate? A bad campaigner? Did he blow it? Did he disgrace our cause by losing? Well?
People, wake up! Kucinich did what he could and motivated many people, but not nearly enough, to get into action around the issues that we all (I presume) believe in and care about. His campaign might not have been the answer, but are we not better off because he ran? Where did he fail?
The answer, my friends, is in US. WE are the ones who need to build a great mass movement for change if anything is going to change. WE are the ones who need to organize the millions of disenfranchised, disillusioned and disaffected people (which description includes most of us, to be honest about it) and bring them into action. And when we do we will need people like Kucinich to help give us voice and leadership and the wisdom that comes from decades of passionate struggle.
I have posted on ten different websites - including this one - about what we need to do to build a movement that can contest for power in 2012. These posts received on average less than one comment per website, and not a single response that talked about the specifics, about how to build a movement that can win. People seem to be content to let a hero like Kucinich do it for us, and then to carp about it when he can't do it without us.
What's it going to take? We have this great medium available to us now, the Internet, on which to talk to each other about things like this. Well, let's start talking! Time to get serious, while we still have time!
ps. Don't forget to send Kucinich some money - at www.kucinich.us - to defend his seat. Our enemies have donated a huge amount of money to his opponents to try to knock him out and silence his voice in Congress. We can't let that happen!
Posted by CAH at 01/25/2008 @ 7:49pm
Dennis was one of the few positive developments in politics during the past five years and I would like to thank him. We should make a mental note of the pseudoradicals who stabbed him in the back. I think that Kucinich supporters should start considering what they are going to do next. It looks like the final choice will be between Hillary, either McCain or Romney, and possibly Bloomburg. They have all given every indication that they will expand the war and expand economic globalization. I won't vote for any of them. The time to start planning is know.
Posted by lnh at 01/25/2008 @ 7:50pm
about what we need to do to build a movement that can contest for power in 2012. Good idea, but we have to be heard now. We should come up with a list of demands to keep us in the Democratic party, and if we're ignored we have to be ready to bolt. Dennis already said he wouldn't endorse a candidate if they did not repudiate war as policy. We should start there. We need a list of people who promise to take their vote elsewhere if a nominee does not take that pledge.
Posted by lnh at 01/25/2008 @ 7:58pm
We have this great medium available to us now, the Internet, on which to talk to each other about things like this....
Posted by CAH 01/25/2008 @ 7:49pm
Pssst...Let you in on a secret! This "great medium", in particular blogging, is part of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy to keep you loons tied down, `talking' to each other. Us right-winger bloggers, are sprinkled in here , paid of course, to keep an eye on things....LOL!
Posted by Happy at 01/25/2008 @ 8:01pm
....if we're ignored we have to be ready to bolt. Dennis already said he wouldn't endorse a candidate if they did not repudiate war as policy.....
Posted by LNH 01/25/2008 @ 7:58pm
Truth often hurts.....often! "if" you're "ignored"? "if"? Do you know the results of the `06 Congressional Election?
Another truth you won't like, NO candidate still running wants Dennis' endorsement! No donor base, negligible core supporters that fall well below margin of error of ANY poll.....Frankly my dear, NOBODY (but you and your clones) gives f$%# what Dennis do or don't do....and sure looks like even his own Cleveland District is waking up!
Posted by Happy at 01/25/2008 @ 8:09pm
As far as I know, the treatment of growth hormone on cattle is controversial at best. There are no current studies from the AMA or the FDA that conclusively link beef treated with rb-GH to have any negative effects on humans. When either agency bans it out right, I will discontinue eating that particular meat.
Now, I don't go around knocking vegans as much as vegans go around knocking those of us who perfer a more varied diet, which includes meat. From my perspective, heart disease or ACS could care less if your a vegan or meat eater. It kills equally.
Posted by ACOOK 01/25/2008 @ 7:30pm
time to go googling, good nurse.
plus, growth hormone causes extreme bovine mastitis which leads to pus-infected milk. (http://www.ivu.org/ave/mastitis.jpg)
yum.
(One culprit causing the hundreds of millions of pus cells in every liter of milk may be "bovine growth hormone," the Monsanto chemical company's growth hormone marketed as Posilac. Posilac is now widely used by dairy farmers to increase the amount of milk that their already overburdened cows produce. Because cows are not built to produce this much milk, they are prone to a painful udder infection called mastitis. When they are milked, pus and bacteria from the infection flow right along with the milk. The journal Nature reported that Posilac increases somatic cells--pus--in the milk by a whopping 19 percent! Researchers estimate that an ordinary glass of milk contains between one and seven drops of pus. This isn't just disgusting--it can also be dangerous. Pus can contain paratuberculosis bacteria, which are believed to cause Crohn's disease in human beings.
Dairy farmers try to control the rampant mastitis with large doses of antibiotics--but these antibiotics also wind up in the milk. Children are particularly vulnerable to the effects of too many antibiotics, which researchers believe can inhibit the development of the immune system.)
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 8:51pm
Posted by MASK 01/25/2008 @ 7:40pm
do you really drive an suv?
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 8:51pm
Posted by ACOOK 01/25/2008 @ 7:30pm
From my perspective, heart disease or ACS could care less if your a vegan or meat eater. It kills equally.
"In most cases, vegetarian diets are beneficial in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases, such as cardiovascular disease, hypertension, diabetes, cancer, osteoporosis, renal disease and dementia, as well as diverticular disease, gallstones and rheumatoid arthritis." Abstract of "Vegetarian diets: what are the advantages?" by Leitzmann C. in Forum Nutr. 2005;(57):147-56.
To be fair, some other authors say there is little difference.
In any event, you didn't answer my question. What other problems do you have with Dennis? As President, he wouldn't have mandated a vegan diet for everyone - so this is a non-issue.
Posted by srjenkins at 01/25/2008 @ 9:38pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/25/2008 @ 7:07pm
How many times have great writers, artists, been discovered after the artist is dead or tv programs, movies, etc. passed over, canceled and then revived later on once enough critical mass has their attention captured-- lots.
Dennis had the right content just not the right form/forum or compositional presentation. Notice how my first example above, of Frazier/Ali, can be an example of how to combat a wedge issue or the UFO bate of Dennis. Frazier has to be off balance to take the swipe, over extended but only slightly diagonal. Whereas Ali's wide reverse v-shaped stance is more dynamic, covers more ground, but the large move directs movement upward toward stability. Ergo, for Dennis represent that dinamic he had to provide a response that contextually reached to a wide accepted history. Rather than blink, duck or dodge, he should have simply responded in front of a Museum of Science or History, and sited respected people, like Reagan and Carter's experience with voicing interest in the subject. ‘Yeah the media called these other presidents, generals/war/police hero's loony too.'
Just one example, but each element of emphasis, parts of one's message/presentation has to be arranged, lead and direct more interest to one's content, not away-- if not, then what happens... absolutely nothing.
The diagonal dynamic can also work as a negation sign, i.e. negative ads, smear, swift boating, of another... And as long as there's little to no *line pointing back exposing the one violating the other's space, the diagonal negates the energy of the others presentation without a counter composition.
* A line can be varied, mixed media, implied, psychic, directional,... each having its own metaphor or analogy.
Posted by hsuBfools at 01/25/2008 @ 9:40pm
do you really drive an suv?
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/25/2008 @ 8:51pm
???What's there NOT to believe???
2 of our 4 cars are SUVs and I drive a V-8 pickup...that's 3 un-Green vehicles.....think I will find me some `green' bumper stickers and slap them on.....but this is Texas, folks will know I'm just having some fun!
Posted by Happy at 01/25/2008 @ 9:41pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/25/2008 @ 8:51pm
Sorry FZ, but the IVU and the Journal Nature can prove nothing. Why these two groups present their opinions as fact is beyond me. And, contrary to IVU, bovine mastitis is very treatable and preventable.
Here's something else: Well over 100 different microorganisms can cause mastitis, and these vary greatly in the route by which they reach the cow and in the nature of the disease they cause.
Perhaps you should go on over to the Journal of Dairy Science or Agriculture Research websites and see what the researchers are up to.
Posted by ACook at 01/25/2008 @ 9:45pm
Posted by ACOOK 01/25/2008 @ 9:45pm
well, science said thalidomide was great, too.
i'd rather not take chances.
Recombinant bovine somatotropin was found to increase the risk of clinical mastitis by approximately 25% during the treatment period but there was insufficient data to draw firm conclusions about the effects of the drug on the prevalence of subclinical intra-mammary infections. Use of rBST increased the risk of a cow failing to conceive by approximately 40%. For cows which did conceive, there was no effect on services per conception and only a small increase in average days open (5 days). Use of the drug had no effect on gestation length, but the information about a possible effect on the risk of twinning was equivocal. Cows treated with rBST had an estimated 55% increase in the risk of developing clinical signs of lameness. Few studies reported data on culling, but based on those that did, there appeared to be an increase risk of culling evident in multiparous cows. Use of the drug in 1 lactation period appeared to reduce the risk of metabolic diseases (particularly ketosis) in the early period of the subsequent lactation.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=280709 *
*published in The Canadian Journal of Veterinary Research
plus, wouldn't they be treating the mastitis with MORE antibiotics. no thanks.
rBGH is banned in Japan, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada and a moratorium on its use has been ordered in the EU.
even if it's not bad for me, it's really bad for cows. i'm not mean.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 10:02pm
What other problems do you have with Dennis?
Posted by SRJENKINS 01/25/2008 @ 9:38pm
SR, Dennis, along with his delusions of grandure are a joke. Like all left-leaning progressives, he is willing to take everything from this country (including the military) and hand it over to the UN.
I will never support a guy like that...ever.
Posted by ACook at 01/25/2008 @ 10:09pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/25/2008 @ 10:02pm
FZ, thalidomide isn't a bad drug, it was used for the wrong reasons.
Even the quote from the CJVR cannot say conclusively that growth hormone given to bovines produces any negative effects. It's all subjective.
Posted by ACook at 01/25/2008 @ 10:19pm
Even the quote from the CJVR cannot say conclusively that growth hormone given to bovines produces any negative effects. It's all subjective.
Posted by ACOOK 01/25/2008 @ 10:19pm
o.k. how's asbestos for an example.
like i said, it's really bad for the cows. i eat dairy products, but only organic ones (unless i order a pizza).
i don't want to take part in the torture of cows. or pigs. or chickens. you get the picture.
i left meat behind because i thought i might feel better. it was a slow process of change. i laugh when i see people decide to ¡become vegetarian! overnight. good luck.
now, i feel 17,365,489% better.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 10:32pm
"o.k. how's asbestos for an example."
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/25/2008 @ 10:32pm
Much better. See, that wasn't so bad was it? :-)
Posted by ACook at 01/25/2008 @ 10:48pm
Posted by HSUBFOOLS 01/25/2008 @ 9:40pm
do you mean to say dennis may become president after he's dead? :+}
Charles Ives is a good example of postmortem success. [en.wikipedia.org]
Emily Dickinson*, too. [en.wikipedia.org]
but yeah, dennis sure could use better "marketing" skills in this era of very short attention spans. either that or transplant his brain, heart, and soul into some hollywood type.
did you check out my mexican buddies' work? the mural "detroit industry" by rivera is in the detroit institute of art. incredible.
funny thing. when mexican youths get together, they are more likely to spend time drawing and comparing art than playing video games. many have their bedroom walls covered with murals.
*Hope is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all.**
**keep up the good fight, dennis
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 10:48pm
Posted by HAPPY 01/25/2008 @ 9:41pm
well, mr. conservation, it's time to take your electrical savings frame of mind onto the road.
i mean, do you really need to haul all that metal around. is your ass super-extra large?
soon, the u.s. will import ALL its oil.
do you really want to have CANADA and MEXICO holding you by the "sensitives"?
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/25/2008 @ 10:53pm
...do you really need to haul all that metal around....
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/25/2008 @ 10:53pm
Actually, I do. Recall my replacing my house's exterior siding last fall? Would you want to haul 12' long (12" wide) heavy fiber-cement lap sidings in your Civic? How would you haul scratch-n-dent washer/dryer/refrigerators from outlet stores to rental properties w/Civic? Haul a load of bricks & mortar to repair a townhouse wall struck by a car? Backpacks and camping gear for a bunch of Scouts? Towing trailers for volunteers working to repair poor folks' homes? Sorry, I'm not an optional Urban Cowboy....been driving a pickup for 17 yrs!
Posted by Happy at 01/25/2008 @ 11:11pm
all of which you said, in a big jake attempt at humour, was paid for with food stamps.
everyone's a critic.
Posted by emile duBois at 01/25/2008 @ 11:43pm
Posted by HAPPY 01/25/2008 @ 11:11pm
and the suv's?
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/26/2008 @ 12:11am
and the suv's?
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/26/2008 @ 12:11am
My adult son drives my wife's last SUV while she drives a new, small SUV. Both are for safety in the land of pickups.....Texas is the biggest market for pickups in the world. Toyota picked San Antonio to build its Tundra plant for a reason......customers galor and hard-working Hispanic-Americans. My truck is really the only gas hog at 15~16 mpg....but that V-8 power sure feels...remember Exxon's old "put a tiger in your tank", oh yeah!
Posted by Happy at 01/26/2008 @ 12:26am
Posted by HAPPY 01/26/2008 @ 12:26am
honestly, i think it's disgraceful we still burn gasoline. the stuff is poison.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/26/2008 @ 12:41am
Posted by HAPPY 01/26/2008 @ 12:26am
tundra -- talk about irony
ever notice that pickup/suv names and commercials feature the very places they are destroying?
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/26/2008 @ 12:42am
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/25/2008 @ 10:48pm
Yes, but I was always partial to the work of the one armed JC Orozco:
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~library/Orozco/panelx.html
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~library/Orozco/panel01.html
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~library/Orozco/panel08.html
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~library/Orozco/panel17.html
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~library/Orozco/panel19.html
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~library/Orozco/panel21.html
http://tinyurl.com/yvo88b
http://tinyurl.com/yudfuq
http://tinyurl.com/2g98d3
http://tinyurl.com/2dbv4m
The last few paintings Orozco did reminds me of the last painting of Picasso-- both were extremely immediate and straight from the heart. I could read every stroke like a chapter out of a book. Great expressive work. If only everyone could communicate that direct, honest and brave.
Posted by hsuBfools at 01/26/2008 @ 12:52am
er, The last paintings Orozco did, I could not find easily on Google, but take my word for it and go to the library and check it out if you can't do a trip to Mexico.
Posted by hsuBfools at 01/26/2008 @ 12:54am
Posted by ACOOK 01/25/2008 @ 10:09pm
Interesting you don't apply the same skepticism to people that you have toward science. Illusions of grandure? No more than any other Presidential candidate. Take everything and hand it over to the U.N., like the responsibility for policing the world and preventing wars of aggression? I've got no problem with that. But giving up making war willy-nilly outside of our borders is something we can't afford NOT to give up. Nobody is talking about anything beyond that.
It is also interesting that you don't have the same concerns about the WTO, an organization that currently presents much more of a problem to our sovereignty than the U.N. and is supported by every other candidate but Ron Paul.
Based on this post, I submit that you don't have all that much against Dennis - other than personality based qualms. The U.N. comment doesn't address other international governing bodies like the WTO, that Republican candidates support. Why do you have this focus on the U.N. rather than addressing the larger problem and how it pervades the Republican party as well?
Posted by ACOOK 01/25/2008 @ 10:19pm
It's not all subjective. Either it harms you or it doesn't. The problem is that we don't know, don't have strong evidence and no one with a lot of money is invested in proving that it is a problem. Shoot, 80 years ago they tried to sell cigarettes on their health benefits. If it took that long for something that obvious - how long do you think this will take?
Posted by HAPPY 01/25/2008 @ 11:11pm
Few people have a real need for SUVs, just as few have a need for a Hummer.
Posted by srjenkins at 01/26/2008 @ 10:42am
"Take everything and hand it over to the U.N., like the responsibility for policing the world and preventing wars of aggression? I've got no problem with that."
"It is also interesting that you don't have the same concerns about the WTO, an organization that currently presents much more of a problem to our sovereignty than the U.N. and is supported by every other candidate but Ron Paul."
"Why do you have this focus on the U.N. rather than addressing the larger problem and how it pervades the Republican party as well?"
Posted by SRJENKINS 01/26/2008 @ 10:42am
Of course you wouldn't have a problem with the UN commanding and sending our troops to die in hostile territory, just as long as the US isn't doing it. A prime example would be Bosnia and Iraq. I know you feel we shouldn't have gone to war with Iraq but we certainly didn't have any business going to Bosnia either.
Oh but I do have issues with the WTO as well as NAFTA, Kyoto and CAFTA. The dems opened the trade door and the repubs didn't bother to close it back.
I can't stand the UN. They're totally an ineffectual organization. Dennis Kucinich worships at their alter. (See my above statement)
Posted by ACook at 01/26/2008 @ 12:12pm
I can't stand the UN. They're totally an ineffectual organization. Dennis Kucinich worships at their alter. (See my above statement)-----Posted by ACOOK 01/26/2008 @ 12:12pm
So, say, you would NOT support upholding a UN resolution by....going to war?
Posted by Mask at 01/26/2008 @ 12:17pm
Posted by HSUBFOOLS 01/25/2008 @ 9:40pm
do you mean to say dennis may become president after he's dead? :+}-----Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/25/2008 @ 10:48pm
Given the mind of the person you're talking to....
the answer might be "yes"....heheh
Posted by Mask at 01/26/2008 @ 12:19pm
"It's not all subjective. Either it harms you or it doesn't."
"If it took that long for something that obvious - how long do you think this will take?"
Posted by SRJENKINS 01/26/2008 @ 10:42am
Again, what proof do you have that it does? Advanced research and technology has come a long way. Science no longer requires serveral decades to determine if a drug will produce negative outcomes anymore. When thymerisol was thought to be the root cause of autism in vaccinated children, it was removed from all vaccines in 2000 and yet the number of autism cases continually rose. Why?
Posted by ACook at 01/26/2008 @ 12:25pm
Better to light one candle than curse the darkness, Rese. And, IMHO, you're a torch bearer, or, to use our current greatest allegory, you have a "deluminator" R(on)ese W. Thanks.
Posted by lewwelge at 01/26/2008 @ 12:28pm
"So, say, you would NOT support upholding a UN resolution by....going to war?"
Posted by MASK 01/26/2008 @ 12:17pm
And?!?!? It's between me and them. No body else need be involved (IMHO). Besides, any UN charters, resolutions or what ever, DOES NOT superceed the US Constitution. If Congress declares war, that's all she wrote.
Posted by ACook at 01/26/2008 @ 12:32pm
Gotta run out. Will be back to chat later on this evening.
Posted by ACook at 01/26/2008 @ 12:34pm
Posted by ACOOK 01/26/2008 @ 12:12pm
Of course you wouldn't have a problem with the UN commanding and sending our troops to die in hostile territory, just as long as the US isn't doing it.
No reason that Americans can't volunteer to be part of a U.N. peacekeeping force independent of the U.S. military nor is there reason to put U.S. troops under the command of the U.N. - particularly if you are talking about the numbers like the 300 military personnel the United States sent to Bosnia under UNPROFOR.
I have problems with military force in general. There is a difference between peacekeeping and use of military force like Iraq.
Oh but I do have issues with the WTO as well as NAFTA, Kyoto and CAFTA. The dems opened the trade door and the repubs didn't bother to close it back.
Yet, both CAFTA and NAFTA were passed by a Republican Congress. How is it that the "dems opened the trade door"? Simply because Bill Clinton advocated for and signed NAFTA into law? We aren't even on Kyoto and the WTO treaty was signed by the Republican controlled Senate in 1994. You have a rather curious perspective in light of these simple facts.
Posted by ACOOK 01/26/2008 @ 12:25pm
The same "proof" that you have that it does not. I start with the assumption that anything that causes more pus in my milk, reduces the fertility of cows and makes them lame is something that prudence would dictate not putting into my body. But by all means, wait for your proof - maybe you'll be able to provide us all with it.
Posted by srjenkins at 01/26/2008 @ 1:04pm
Posted by ACOOK 01/26/2008 @ 12:32pm
Unfortunately, Congress never declared war. So, even with the U.S. Constitution as the standard, we didn't follow what it prescribes,
Posted by srjenkins at 01/26/2008 @ 1:08pm
Wolf Blitzer talked with Donna Brazlie about Kucinich when he called off his run for the Presidency. She called him the real deal and a straight up Progressive. I would agree with that assessment. I voted for him by absentee ballot, and though he no longer running, I have no regrets. There are not too many honest people in politics, and I appreciate the opportunity to recognize that honesty with my vote. By the way, he wasn't going to reform any trade deals, Kucinich was going to pull us out of NAFA and the WTO. The country's loss can be Ohio's gain.
Posted by P. J. Casey at 01/26/2008 @ 4:38pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/25/2008 @ 8:51pm
Sorry, missed this.....the answer is "yes".
Posted by Mask at 01/26/2008 @ 4:47pm
Posted by ACOOK 01/26/2008 @ 12:32pm
ACOOK, you DO remember that one of the reasons that Bush gave for invading Iraq...was to uphold UNITED NATIONS resolutions 660, 678 and 1441....right???
Posted by Mask at 01/26/2008 @ 4:51pm
Posted by HSUBFOOLS 01/26/2008 @ 12:52am
http://www.marxists.org/subject/art/visual_arts/painting/exhibits/murali sts/negros.jpg
yeah, orozco is great. having lived in mexico for 10 years, i was able to see some pretty incredible stuff.
i've never been to guadalajara, but now i want to go...........
thanks for the links.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/26/2008 @ 6:26pm
Sorry, missed this.....the answer is "yes".
Posted by MASK 01/26/2008 @ 4:47pm
oops. well, hopefully next time..............
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/26/2008 @ 6:52pm
Rese, what keeps you going?
Posted by lewwelge at 01/26/2008 @ 8:23pm