Obama's Kennedy Vibe

posted by John Nichols on 10/01/2007 @ 10:10pm

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Yes, of course, we are all supposed to be very excited above Barack Obama's fund-raising prowess. And the fact that the freshman senator from Illinois raised more than $20 million in the last contribution cycle is impressive. It is even more impressive that the contributions toward his campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination came from 93,000 separate donors – suggesting a breadth of grassroots support unparalleled in the current contest.

But politics ought to be about a good deal more than the ability to shake the money tree. And it often is, a fact that can be attested to by presidential also-rans such as former Texas Governor John Connolly -- who spent the then astronomical sum of $11 million on a bid for the 1980 Republican presidential nomination that yielded him one convention delegate: Mrs. Ada Mills of Clarksville, Arkansas.

What should be at least as intriguing about Obama's campaign as its largesse is the conscious effort by the candidate and his aides to grasp for another form of political gold: the Kennedy connection.

It is no secret that Obama is striving for a Camelot vibe. His speeches are thick with the calls to unity and higher purpose that were the essential themes of John Kennedy's stump speeches when, as the even-younger-than-Obama senator from the even-smaller-than-Illinois state of Massachusetts, he grabbed the Democratic presidential nomination in 1960 from the likes of Hubert Humphrey, Lyndon Johnson and Adlai Stevenson. And, at their best, Obama's addresses echo the moral message employed by Bobby Kennedy's in his bid for the Democratic presidential nomination of 1968.

How conscious is Obama's Kennedy vibe?

On Tuesday, as he arrives in what for him is shaping up as the essential state of Iowa, Obama will be joined by Ted Sorensen, the JFK and RFK speechwriter and aide who is one of the last politically active members of President Kennedy's inner circle.

Sorensen, who JFK referred to as his "intellectual blood bank," will introduce Obama in Des Moines and Coralville, Iowa, on a day when the Illinois senator will be highlighting his vocal opposition of five years ago to congressional authorization of an attack on Iraq.

Having Sorensen, who broke with Kennedy's successor, Lyndon Johnson, over the issue of ending the Vietnam War, will portray Obama's opposition to going to war with Iraq as a Kennedy-esque "profile in courage" – even as the candidate's current stance on ending the occupation of Iraq remains disappointingly squishy in the eyes of anti-war activists.

Now almost 80, the man who crafted both words and strategies for President Kennedy, is making the sort of comparisons that no one – save Senator Ted, who has yet to endorse – can conjure with such legitimacy.

"He is more like John F. Kennedy than any other candidate of our time," Sorensen says of Obama, arguing that "the parallels in their candidacies are striking."

"Obama is opposed, as Kennedy was opposed, for being young, for being in his first term in the Senate and, sad to say, for having qualities from his birth on – such as his skin color – which people say will make him tough to support. Well, they said that about Kennedy's religion… That's nonsense," says Sorensen. "The times are too important. We have got to have someone with judgment leading this country."

How much will a Sorensen swing count through Iowa, where new polls suggest that Obama is moving into a position from which he might be able to best both New York Senator Hillary Clinton, the national frontrunner, and former North Carolina Senator John Edwards, until recently the Iowa frontrunner, influence the state's first-in-the-nation Democratic caucuses?

There is no question that, in eastern Iowa, a heavily Catholic, blue-collar region where the Kennedys remain iconic figures, Ted Kennedy's campaigning for Massachusetts Senator John Kerry before the 2004 Democratic caucuses played a significant role in the renewal of Kerry's candidacy.

Ted Sorensen is no Ted Kennedy. But he is a vibrant and articulate link to the Kennedy legacy. And Sorensen's campaigning on Obama's behalf will suggest a historical connection that money can't buy.

Comments (100)

Looks to me Obama do needs something more besides his voting record that FROSTY posted on Ms. Flanders' thread.....a record that reflects much wishful-thinking....if Ted Sorensen can accelerate Big O's `seasoning' while evoking the Kennedy mystique....great!

His fund-raising is truly befitting a Magic Negro :-)))

Posted by Happy at 10/01/2007 @ 10:22pm
Obama is the opposite of Kennedy..JFK is more to the right than Reagan was on most issues...I can't see JFK even backing him anymore than he would back Teddy today..JFK was a realist and a democrat of a type that no longer exists today.

If you compare Obama to Kennedy, Teddy comes to mind...the list Frosty posted on the other Obama thread are reasons why I would never consider voting for him..he is a smuch a socialist as Hillary. Good thing he has no chance.

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 10:40pm
The magic negro

watch him make this hamster disappear

Posted by Will C. at 10/01/2007 @ 10:41pm
Watch himself disappear.

He will endorse Hillary and give her his money in exchange for some kind of promise for a position in Hillarys administration..department of socialism or some such function...she needs to make him disappear by bringing him inside her tent. Too much of a threat.

Should Hillary lose in 08, he then remains viable for 2016 and hopefully by that time he will have some kind of record or resume..as it stands now he has neither.

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 10:45pm
Should Hillary lose in 08, he then remains viable for 2016 and hopefully by that time he will have some kind of record or resume..as it stands now he has neither.

Posted by JOHN MAASCH 10/01/2007 @ 10:45pm

ok maasch, quick analysis of your latest alcohol sotted ramblings.

if Obama remains viable for 2016, then he hasn't disappeared.

Posted by Will C. at 10/01/2007 @ 10:49pm
wha-la

Posted by Will C. at 10/01/2007 @ 10:49pm
i have been watching old capaign commercials here - great site...

politicommercials [tinyurl.com]

and indeed i was thinking the same...although such is also kind of scary...

but not only do i not see jfk's flaws...i see a real son of the middle class to boot...

ie - he is not just kennedyesque...he is more than kennedy...

a common man jfk...without jfk's flaws...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2007 @ 10:55pm
I guess some people need everything explained due to retardation of deductive skills...sounds like Hammer blow back syndrome....

Obama disappears from "primary race" as Hillary has had it locked up for years...but, OK, I'll play..Obama loses Iowa and it is over until 2016. He does, however, guarentee himself a permanent black Senate seat as long as he is in Illinois.

Obama has a chance to win!

Is that OK in your world?

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 10:55pm
wha-la

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 10:56pm
ha ha! maasch is scared!

thats a great sign!

hee hee!

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2007 @ 10:56pm
For years and especially the past year, Obama has been heavily compared to JFK. How can he not use the connection because even if he did not, it would hang heavily over him. I was reading Grand Expectations, history of the US from 45 to 75. A passage on Kennedy is very much sounding like they are talking about Obama if you substitute the names. "Many people who actually met Kennedy were almost dazzled. they found him personally charming, energetic, and he could literally light up a room. Intellectuals and journalists (though in this case the journalists are obsessed with Hillary), responded favorably to his dry wit, irreverence, and cool, detached intelligence...." For those who think Obama is going to work or endorse Hillary, keep dreaming. they hate each other. Besides, Hillary is too polarizing and disliked in her own party to get the nomination. half the democrats refuse to vote for her.

Posted by vwcat at 10/01/2007 @ 10:57pm
Posted by WILL C. 10/01/2007 @ 10:41pm

careful, wil - more "haps" may vote for the magic negro than you think. might not admit it...but i dont give a rats ass...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2007 @ 11:01pm
a common man jfk...without jfk's flaws...

Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 10/01/2007 @ 10:55pm

JFK had a resume.. a war record fresh in the memory of a population with war memories...will Obama cut taxes like JFK? Give speeches abourt defending freedom everywhere, pay any price..ect?

I think not...can you hear JFK stop drilling and using our own oilsources in the face of the entire world oil needs and real usage increasing? Watching other nations drill outside our national boundrys, but right up to ours?

Anyone see JFK as a socialistic lefy?

Again, Obama is Teddy..not JFK or RFK.

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 11:01pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 10/01/2007 @ 10:56pm

I see nothing to be afraid of in elections....especially this one, since there is no election in the Dem primary here. It is a lock and it was over before it started.

Hillary had it 6 years ago...and that should make YOU scared as one on the left, for you hnad no choice...and you will vote for her.

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 11:04pm
Obama disappears from "primary race" as Hillary has had it locked up for years...but, OK, I'll play..

Posted by JOHN MAASCH 10/01/2007 @ 10:55pm

ok maasch, quick analysis of your latest alcohol sotted ramblings.

Obama will be part of the primary race......until the primaries. and then everybody disappears from the primary race

Posted by Will C. at 10/01/2007 @ 11:06pm
I hope I'm not baffling you with the obvious again

Posted by Will C. at 10/01/2007 @ 11:06pm
careful, wil - more "haps" may vote for the magic negro than you think. might not admit it...but i dont give a rats ass...

Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 10/01/2007 @ 11:01pm

I have a feeling that rats ass's won't be a common stocking stuffer this Christmas

Posted by Will C. at 10/01/2007 @ 11:08pm
" "Many people who actually met Kennedy were almost dazzled. they found him personally charming, energetic, and he could literally light up a room. Intellectuals and journalists (though in this case the journalists are obsessed with Hillary), responded favorably to his dry wit, irreverence, and cool, detached intelligence...."

While not make an "equivlency" here, but didn't this staement also describe the memorization many felt about Hitler...or a celebrety from Hollywood by some fan?

He has no resume as of yet, just media personality.

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 11:08pm
I hope I'm not baffling you with the obvious again

Posted by WILL C. 10/01/2007 @ 11:06pm

I am only baffled that you actually believe there is a primary race going on....

....man that hammer is lodged very deep in your forehead.

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 11:10pm
almost dazzled eh? I wonder how close to dazzled you have to get to be almost dazzled oh peddler of sparkly objects

Posted by Will C. at 10/01/2007 @ 11:10pm
But, then again, you are very similar to Frank..

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 11:12pm
I am only baffled that you actually believe there is a primary race going on....

....man that hammer is lodged very deep in your forehead.

Posted by JOHN MAASCH 10/01/2007 @ 11:10pm

let me guess john boy, in your current state of almost dazzling the primary race is obscured

Posted by Will C. at 10/01/2007 @ 11:12pm
But, then again, you are very similar to Frank..

Posted by JOHN MAASCH 10/01/2007 @ 11:12pm

very similar... almost dazzled...

your really having a tough time pinpointing what you're trying to say tonight maasch

Posted by Will C. at 10/01/2007 @ 11:14pm
I am dazzled by Seattle, I have been here for a few days this week too,...funny...no evidence of your existance or influence here? Where are all the nail pounding structures you are working on here?..

When working with sparklly objects it is not you or yours that comes to mind,..not much sparkle there Willy boy..

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 11:15pm
Posted by WILL C. 10/01/2007 @ 11:08pm | ignore this person

they are slightly more desirable than lumps of coal...HAP is a good guy, will...keeps idealistic types like me real...us idealistic types need haps, and they need us.

even wicked old maasch is a good guy under all those layers of evil! smart, if politically retarded...

i always enjoy his curmudgeonly naysaying!

(just ribbing you, MAASCH...nothing personal)

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2007 @ 11:15pm
"let me guess john boy, in your current state of almost dazzling the primary race is obscured

Posted by WILL C. 10/01/2007 @ 11:12pm

Let me guess Willy boy, in your current state of almost dazzling the primary race is open and up for grabs?

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 11:17pm
I am dazzled by Seattle, I have been here for a few days this week too,...funny...no evidence of your existance or influence here? Where are all the nail pounding structures you are working on here?..

Posted by JOHN MAASCH 10/01/2007 @ 11:15pm

ummm, we call them houses. If you look close enough you might spot one.

Posted by Will C. at 10/01/2007 @ 11:18pm
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 10/01/2007 @ 11:01pm

socialist...blah blah blah...socialist...grumble mumble grumble...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2007 @ 11:18pm
Ibble,

(just ribbing you, MAASCH...nothing personal)..

I enjoy it and I enjoy reading your views..there is never anything personal here..just politics and views..

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 11:19pm
Let me guess Willy boy, in your current state of almost dazzling the primary race is open and up for grabs?

Posted by JOHN MAASCH 10/01/2007 @ 11:17pm

I take it you've flip flopped on the whole primary race thing maasch. So what did that take... seconds?

Posted by Will C. at 10/01/2007 @ 11:20pm
Posted by RIO BRAVO 10/01/2007 @ 11:17pm |

thats just redonkulous!

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2007 @ 11:20pm
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 10/01/2007 @ 11:19pm

without you guys who would i have to argue with and blame? lol!

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2007 @ 11:21pm
and MAASCH

you are the only one here whose spellin and typing screw ups rival or exceed mine...har har...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2007 @ 11:22pm
they are slightly more desirable than lumps of coal...HAP is a good guy, will...keeps idealistic types like me real...us idealistic types need haps, and they need us.

Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 10/01/2007 @ 11:15pm

i don't know ibble. I really think the only thing your average hamster needs is a vast wasteland sparsely populated with unquestioning and adoring hamsters

Posted by Will C. at 10/01/2007 @ 11:23pm
IBBLE,

Seattle is a cool place..I like it..2 weeks ago I actually shipped home $400 worth of fresh fish...wonderful city..seems a little cloudy and rainy here...they have great restaurants, museums, and beautiful places to build a nice home here...my wife has family here and would like to relocate somewhere in this area...I am partial to the Oregon coast myself...who knows..I have been here for 3 of the last 5 weeks...I might locate a small business if my Chinese deal comes through..there are many techno weenies here needed for producing my product for import into China..

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 11:25pm
without you guys who would i have to argue with and blame? lol!

Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 10/01/2007 @ 11:21pm

Thats right!! I am needed here.

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 11:26pm
"and MAASCH

you are the only one here whose spellin and typing screw ups rival or exceed mine...har har...

Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 10/01/2007 @ 11:22pm '

I am terrible admittely..I use the two finger Columbus method...my syntax, if that is correct, is also miserable..I use a lot of.....'s in my posts.

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 11:27pm
without you maasch we never would have known that a human being could slur their typing

Posted by Will C. at 10/01/2007 @ 11:28pm
"i don't know ibble. I really think the only thing your average hamster needs is a vast wasteland sparsely populated with unquestioning and adoring hamsters

Posted by WILL C. 10/01/2007 @ 11:23pm

Sounds like Frank..and you..the ever democrat adorer..unquestioning of everything Hillary and from the Democratic machine..they even have you convinced that Hillary is in a primary race..WILL, she is and has been the Democratic candidate for the presidency in 08 for over 6 years..and has been working on it since before her boy Bill won it in 2 three legged races.

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 11:31pm
maasch Hillary is franks pick. He's allowed to support his pick.

Posted by Will C. at 10/01/2007 @ 11:35pm
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 10/01/2007 @ 11:27pm | ignore this person

i hear ya...between that fingernail clipping stuck under the "M" key, my own damage and an old boxer's fracture that never healed properly (fight with a wooden wall years ago before my buddhist conversion - ah family holidays!) i suck on the typing spelling crap...

thank god for spell check and modern word processor for official and important stuff...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2007 @ 11:40pm
What is the thing with you and alcohol or sluring.. Why would you assume something like that about another human being from a type writer? Your deductive skills at work here? If so, they are as astute as your economic genius...hammer blow back...you have a serious illness Willy boy.

My God, man, you are something else...and this from a man who hands out $5 bills on exit ramps..amazing compassionate insights in your "fellow man"....you at least are where you can cause the least damage to your "fellow man"..behind a hammer.

Maybe, and I know it is too late, but maybe you should look into wearing some sort of helmut, like the ones they put on kids who are in danger of falling down in "special school"..we could retro fit the helmut with the spinning propellar for you..a red one.

Gotta go...going to meet some friends for dinner downtown Seattle..any, ah, suggestions WILL? (this should be good)

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 11:40pm
thank god for spell check and modern word processor for official and important stuff...

Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 10/01/2007 @ 11:40pm

Here,here.

Boxing, eh? I used to love to go to golden gloves and PAL leagues in Indianapolis...watch, not partake..I never learned the art..my son boxed some in the Navy, tho and is teaching my middle boy..

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 11:43pm
oh - and thank god for 50 foot queenie! my fear of her dark ascendance has indeed lit a fire under my spotty white ass and got me working for the o-train...

the last pres campaign i worked on was bill's...

wonder why i got so cynical? lol...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2007 @ 11:44pm
I hear there's some great sea food off the end of the peer. hey and all you drink too.

Posted by Will C. at 10/01/2007 @ 11:45pm
I visited the Buddist temple in Bangkok and one in the back country a few years ago..fascinating places....I fed the fish on the river with food I bought from the monks there..very interesting place. I am going back to Thailand next fall..

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 11:45pm
"I hear there's some great sea food off the end of the peer. hey and all you drink too."

Posted by WILL C. 10/01/2007 @ 11:45pm

About what I expected from you..good to see somethings never change...

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 11:46pm
so you find feeding fish interesting

Posted by Will C. at 10/01/2007 @ 11:47pm
About what I expected from you..good to see somethings never change...

Posted by JOHN MAASCH 10/01/2007 @ 11:46pm

yes your expectations have remanded constant maasch.

Posted by Will C. at 10/01/2007 @ 11:48pm
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters/allcomments?pid=238867#pi d238963

IBIBIBBLELBLELBELBLE

i posted a mmmmmmmmmmmmmmagnificent link for you here.

you'll thank mmmmmmmmmme very mmmmmmmmmmuch

Posted by frosty zoom at 10/01/2007 @ 11:48pm
And I believe it is "pier".

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 11:50pm
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 10/01/2007 @ 11:45pm | ignore this person

thai food yummy. asia is fascinating...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2007 @ 11:51pm
great then it shouldn't be hard for you to find maasch

Posted by Will C. at 10/01/2007 @ 11:52pm
And I believe to meant ,"remained"..

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 11:56pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 10/01/2007 @ 11:48pm | ignore this person

wow...i almost feel sorry...

but too revved up on positive goody goody goodiness here to rant about the evils of bush.

hell - i'll even say something nice about the man...

hot daughters!

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/01/2007 @ 11:58pm
See, I have the same spelling problem..

Posted by john maasch at 10/01/2007 @ 11:59pm
you believe to meant...? that's not a spelling problem

Posted by Will C. at 10/02/2007 @ 12:01am
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 10/01/2007 @ 11:59pm | ignore

in all fairness english is a dyslexia enabling language. brilliant for expressing wide array of nuances, but seems to cause many many brains to fritz out...dyslexia is 2 to 10 times more common in english than almost any other language in the world.

u probably got a mild version of it like me.

the struggle gives it meaning...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/02/2007 @ 12:03am
an old tibetan bhuddist guru had an irritating, surly, lazy servant who backtalked him and was a general pain in the ass.

when told by his followers he should get rid of him, the guru replied,

"on the contrary. i am very grateful for him...he has taught me great pacience..."

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/02/2007 @ 12:08am
or..buddhist...patience...lol

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/02/2007 @ 12:10am
it's funny that people thought the servant was the lazy one

Posted by Will C. at 10/02/2007 @ 12:13am
Posted by WILL C. 10/01/2007 @ 11:47pm

it is a path to enlightenment...lol

Posted by WILL C. 10/02/2007 @ 12:13am | ignore this person

lol - never thought of it like that. thanks, will...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/02/2007 @ 12:29am
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 10/01/2007 @ 11:58pm

not the bush nonsense.

it's the link about cleaning your keyboard.

Posted by frosty zoom at 10/02/2007 @ 12:56am
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 10/02/2007 @ 12:56am

oh...lol...ok...

canned air is best...

nite frosty...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/02/2007 @ 01:02am
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 10/02/2007 @ 01:02am

que descanses.

hasta mañana.

Posted by frosty zoom at 10/02/2007 @ 01:10am
9/11 is over! [nytimes.com]

highly suggested reading, america

Posted by frosty zoom at 10/02/2007 @ 01:26am
Thank you Rese. Your efforts are serving to pull together all of the seemingly unrelated events of the past 4-plus decades - and place them in context - as TOTALLY RELATED, one to another.

There are no coincidences.

None.

Posted by plunger at 10/02/2007 @ 06:50am
The ASBESTOS liability that the World Trade Center represented on the books of Halliburton (as a direct result of Cheney acquiring Dresser Industries), is actually just as significant a smoking gun of his 9/11 complicity as was Mineta's sworn testimony before the 9/11 Commission:

CHENEY, HALLIBURTON, THE BUSH FAMILY, AND ASBESTOS

Dick Cheney, Halliburton, Inc., and, reportedly, the Bush family are surprisingly well acquainted with asbestos-related concerns. [7]

On December 18, 2002, CBS News reported that Halliburton "has agreed to pay about $4 billion in cash and stock to settle hundreds of thousands of asbestos claims against it." Reportedly, Halliburton inherited its asbestos liability from Harbison-Walker, a unit of Halliburton's subsidiary Dresser Industries, and from Halliburton's Kellog Brown & Root subsidiary.

On December 13, 2001, the World Socialist Web Site reported that "During the 2000 election campaign critics noted that in the last several years Cheney and Halliburton had contributed $157,500 to congressional candidates who had co-sponsored legislation to cut off victims' rights to a fair recovery when injured or killed as a result of asbestos exposure."

And on August 11, 2002, The Olympian (from Olympia, WA), carried a Washington Post article noting that:

"Dresser had close ties to a family Cheney knew well: the Bushes. Cheney's boss while he served as Secretary of Defense, President George H.W. Bush, was once being groomed to run Dresser, a company that Bush's father and grandfather had reshaped decades earlier.

When Dresser went public in the 1920s, it turned to W.A. Harriman & Co., whose president was George Herbert Walker, grandfather and namesake to former president Bush. Prescott Bush, the former president's father, helped organize Dresser and select its new president, H. Neil Mallon. Prescott Bush eventually sat on the board and by 1941, still held 1,900 shares of Dresser stock. Mallon was so close to former president Bush that he described him in his autobiography as "surrogate uncle and father-confessor." One of his sons, Neil Mallon Bush, is named after him. After World War II, Mallon employed George H.W. Bush and Dresser executives expected him to take over the company, according to journalist Darwin Payne, who wrote a history of Dresser. Instead, the former president left to prospect for oil.

While Cheney saw sound business reasons for acquiring Dresser, there was a problem in its past -- the use of asbestos in Harbison-Walker division products."

GW included the issue in his State of the Union speech in 2005.

"To make our economy stronger and more competitive, America must reward, not punish, the efforts and dreams of entrepreneurs. Small business is the path of advancement, especially for women and minorities, so we must free small businesses from needless regulation and protect honest job-creators from junk lawsuits. (Applause.) Justice is distorted, and our economy is held back by irresponsible class-actions and frivolous asbestos claims -- and I urge Congress to pass legal reforms this year."

Famous Quote of George Bush Senior:" You can fool some of the people all the time, and these are the ones you want to concentrate on"

I also remember he said "Sarah, if the American people had ever known the truth about what we Bushes have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched."

George Bush Senior speaking in an interview with Sarah McClendon in December 1992 -

most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our Number one priority and we will not rest until we find him!" - GW Bush, September 13, 2001 -

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and I really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - GW Bush, March 13, 2002 -

President G W Bush's first pick to investigated the 911 Attack: Henry Kissinger -

"It is not a matter of what is true that counts, but a matter of what is perceived to be true." -- Henry Kissinger

Posted by plunger at 10/02/2007 @ 06:56am
ASBESTOS & 9/11

The WTC was a $15 billion HALLIBURTON liability.

There's more. You see, the World Trade Towers were not the real estate plum we are led to believe. From an economic standpoint, the trade center -- subsidized since its inception by the NY Port Authority -- has never functioned, nor was it intended to function, unprotected in the rough-and-tumble real estate marketplace. How could Silverstein Group have been ignorant of this?

The towers required some $200 million in renovations and improvements, most of which related to removal and replacement of building materials declared to be health hazards in the years since the towers were built. It was well-known by the city of New York that the WTC was an asbestos bombshell. For years, the Port Authority treated the building like an aging dinosaur, attempting on several occasions to get permits to demolish the building for liability reasons, but being turned down due the known asbestos problem. Further, it was well-known the only reason the building was still standing until 9/11 was because it was too costly to disassemble the twin towers floor by floor since the Port Authority was prohibited legally from demolishing the buildings.

The projected cost to disassemble the towers: $15 Billion. Just the scaffolding for the operation was estimated at $2.4 Billion!

In other words, the Twin Towers were condemned structures. How convenient that an unexpected "terrorist" attack demolished the buildings completely.

WTC Building 7 was a part of the WTC complex, and covered under the same insurance policy. This 47-story steel-framed structure, which was NOT struck by an aircraft, mysteriously collapsed 8 hours later that same day into its own footprint at freefall speed - exactly in the manner of the Twin Towers.

WTC 7 collapsed at 5:20pm

http://wtc7.net http://911review.com

How could this have happened? Mr. Silverstein gave the world the answer when he slipped up during a PBS television interview a year later, on 9/11/2002:

"I remember getting a call from the...er...fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and we watched the building collapse."

WOW, WHAT A COINCIDENCE!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7750532340306101329&q=silverste in&hl=en

WOW, WHAT A COINCIDENCE!

As anyone who knows anything about construction can tell you, "Pull" is common industry jargon for a controlled demolition.

One thing is for sure, the decision to 'pull' WTC 7 would have delighted many people. Especially because it has been reported that thousands of sensitive files relating to some of the biggest financial scams in history - including Enron and WorldCom -- were stored in the offices of some of the building's tenant.

Inside WTC 7 was the US Secret Service's largest field office with more than 200 employees. "All the evidence that we stored at 7 World Trade, in all our cases, went down with the building," according to US Secret Service Special Agent David Curran.

What a neat, complete, and fortuitous turn of events was 9/11.

Incidentally, it's worth noting that one of Lucky Larry's closest friends - a person with whom it's said he speaks almost daily by phone - is none other than former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2006/09/07/18306895.php

Posted by plunger at 10/02/2007 @ 06:57am
And on August 11, 2002, The Olympian (from Olympia, WA), carried a Washington Post article noting that:

"Dresser had close ties to a family Cheney knew well: the Bushes. Cheney's boss while he served as Secretary of Defense, President George H.W. Bush, was once being groomed to run Dresser, a company that Bush's father and grandfather had reshaped decades earlier.

When Dresser went public in the 1920s, it turned to W.A. Harriman & Co., whose president was George Herbert Walker, grandfather and namesake to former president Bush. Prescott Bush, the former president's father, helped organize Dresser and select its new president, H. Neil Mallon. Prescott Bush eventually sat on the board and by 1941, still held 1,900 shares of Dresser stock. Mallon was so close to former president Bush that he described him in his autobiography as "surrogate uncle and father-confessor." One of his sons, Neil Mallon Bush, is named after him. After World War II, Mallon employed George H.W. Bush and Dresser executives expected him to take over the company, according to journalist Darwin Payne, who wrote a history of Dresser. Instead, the former president left to prospect for oil.

While Cheney saw sound business reasons for acquiring Dresser, there was a problem in its past -- the use of asbestos in Harbison-Walker division products."

GW included the issue in his State of the Union speech in 2005.

"To make our economy stronger and more competitive, America must reward, not punish, the efforts and dreams of entrepreneurs. Small business is the path of advancement, especially for women and minorities, so we must free small businesses from needless regulation and protect honest job-creators from junk lawsuits. (Applause.) Justice is distorted, and our economy is held back by irresponsible class-actions and frivolous asbestos claims -- and I urge Congress to pass legal reforms this year."

ASBESTOS AT GROUND ZERO?

WOW, WHAT A COINCIDENCE!

WHAT WOULD THE DEMO COST HAVE BEEN TO DISMANTLE THE TOWERS IN ANY OTHER WAY - GIVEN THAT THEY WERE FULL OF ASBESTOS?

WOW, WHAT A COINCIDENCE!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7750532340306101329&q=silverste in&hl=en

WOW, WHAT A COINCIDENCE!

Posted by plunger at 10/02/2007 @ 06:58am
Halliburton's receipt of all the no-bid contracts was direct quid pro quo - highly illegal.

When Cheney was the CEO, he acquired Dresser to save the Bush Family's ass. Dresser made Asbestos, and the liability law suits were going to wipe them out. Cheney took one for the team when he acquired Dresser and all its asbestos liability claims (HAL was punished in the stock market)...the biggest of which was the WORLD TRADE CENTER, a $15 billion albatross that the Port Authority was hard pressed to get rid of.

When the Port Authority unloaded the buildings onto Silverstein, the fix was already in. Cheney literally ran the entire operation on 9/11 (as witnessed by Mineta) and used Dov Zakheim's SYSPLAN technology to guide the CONVERTED FUEL TANKERS to their targets (remember the huge fireball that exploded OUTSIDE the building?).

It was Cheney who instructed Christine Todd Whitman to lie about the levels of asbestos at ground zero, because he didn't want people to make the connection that the entire operation was simply arson on a grand scale, which eliminated a $15 billion liability from Halliburton's books.

Need more evidence of the quid pro quo?

GW included the issue in his State of the Union speech in 2005.

"To make our economy stronger and more competitive, America must reward, not punish, the efforts and dreams of entrepreneurs. Small business is the path of advancement, especially for women and minorities, so we must free small businesses from needless regulation and protect honest job-creators from junk lawsuits. (Applause.) Justice is distorted, and our economy is held back by irresponsible class-actions and frivolous asbestos claims -- and I urge Congress to pass legal reforms this year."

Posted by plunger at 10/02/2007 @ 06:58am
HOW IS THE WAR IN IRAQ TIED TO 9/11 AND HALLIBURTON'S ASBESTOS LIABILITY?

ASK DICK FUCKING CHENEY THE QUESTION!

BUSH ORDERED THE LIE…

PEOPLE ARE DYING:

LEVELS OF ASBESTOS

A statement about discovery of asbestos at higher than safe levels in dust samples from lower Manhattan was changed to state that "samples confirm previous reports that ambient air quality meets OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) standards and consequently is not a cause for public concern."

Language in an EPA draft stating that asbestos levels in some areas were three times higher than national standards was changed to "slightly above the 1 percent trigger for defining asbestos material."

This sentence was added to a Sept. 16 news release: "Our tests show that it is safe for New Yorkers to go back to work in New York's financial district." It replaced a statement that initial monitors failed to turn up dangerous samples.

A warning on the importance of safely handling ground zero cleanup, due to lead and asbestos exposure, was changed to say that some contaminants had been noted downtown but "the general public should be very reassured by initial sampling."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0823-03.htm

COLLEGE STUDENTS DYING FROM INHALED ASBESTOS:

http://www.bupipedream.com/pipeline_web/display_article.php?id=3259

ALL SO HALLIBURTON COULD REMOVE THE WTC ASBESTOS LIABILITY FROM ITS BOOKS:

The WTC was a $15 billion HALLIBURTON liability.

HALLIBURTON HAD ACQUIRED DRESSER TO SAVE THE BUSH FAMILY FROM THE LOSING POSITION IT WAS STUCK IN…all because of the pending Asbestos law suits:

GW included the issue in his State of the Union speech in 2005.

"To make our economy stronger and more competitive, America must reward, not punish, the efforts and dreams of entrepreneurs. Small business is the path of advancement, especially for women and minorities, so we must free small businesses from needless regulation and protect honest job-creators from junk lawsuits. (Applause.) Justice is distorted, and our economy is held back by irresponsible class-actions and frivolous asbestos claims -- and I urge Congress to pass legal reforms this year."

Posted by plunger at 10/02/2007 @ 06:59am
Cheney has been planning the invasion of Iran since PRIOR TO 9/11:

Officials point to new developments, such as a recent meeting in Rome between an Iranian arms dealer and controversial neoconservative Michael Ledeen and the March creation of the Iranian directorate inside the Pentagon, as examples of recent events similar to the lead up with war in Iraq.

These officials also add that an as-yet uncompleted ‘Phase II' investigation into pre-war Iraq intelligence suggests the same problems may recur when addressing Iran. They note that the Pentagon's Iranian directorate mirrors the so-called Office of Special Plans, which played a major role in feeding intelligence to the President that bolstered a case for war.

Ledeen goes to Rome

A recent trip by Michael Ledeen to Rome has raised red flags among those concerned about a potential war with Iran. Some believe that Ledeen -- a long-time advocate of Iranian regime change -- was involved in the Niger forgeries scandal.

In late 2001, Ledeen, mid-east expert Harold Rhode and Pentagon analyst Larry Franklin (who later pleaded guilty to passing classified information to a Washington pro-Israel lobbying group) traveled to Rome to meet with Iranian arms dealer Manucher Ghorbanifar and various Italian, Iranian, and Egyptian intelligence agents. Not long after, documents falsely purporting that Iraq had attempted to buy yellowcake uranium surfaced in the international intelligence community, ending up at an Italian magazine, Panorama, for which Ledeen wrote periodic articles.

Ghorbanifar and Ledeen were directly involved in the Iran-Contra scandal of the 1980s, which implicated then-President Ronald Reagan, Vice President George H. W. Bush and the highest ranking members of the Reagan administration in the illegal sales of weapons to Iran.

Ledeen's recent visit to Rome and meeting with Ghorbanifar have created new concern that something is developing with regard to US plans for Iran.

Pentagon confirms Iran Directorate

Military and non-military intelligence sources have also raised worries over what some describe to as "the Iran group" and others as "the Iran working group" and still others as a "cabal" operating out of the Pentagon.

A recent article by Laura Rozen for the Los Angeles Times revealed the Pentagon has created yet another Office of Special Plans-type body called the Directorate for Iran, or the Iranian Directorate.

"It was created to, as Dean Acheson urged Harry Truman, to scare hell out of the American people by making things a little bit clearer than the truth," he said.

Lt. Col. Barry E. Venable, a spokesman for the Pentagon, confirmed the creation of the directorate for Iran in both a phone conversation and an email message.

Venable also confirmed that the new directorate falls under the policy side -- more specifically -- under the new number three at the Pentagon, Eric Edelman. Edelman, Undersecretary of Defense for Policy, holds the same position that Douglas Feith held when he ran OSP at the Pentagon in the lead-up to the Iraq war.

Moreover, sources say that the Iranian Directorate is staffed with many of the same people, including OSP's former director Abram Shulsky, and receives expert analysis from such controversial figures as Project for the New American Century member Reuel Marc Gerecht, who by all accounts was a failure as a CIA field officer. It also includes military personnel such as Ladan Archin, who appears to be serving in the Larry Franklin analyst role among a sea of think-tank operatives and neoconservative war hawks.

When asked specifically about Shulsky, Venable described his involvement as follows:

"Mr. Shulsky continues in his position as Senior Advisor to the USD (P), focusing on Mid-East regional issues and the [global war on terror]."

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Pentagon_confirms_Iranian_directorate_ as_intelligence_0615.html

Posted by plunger at 10/02/2007 @ 07:02am
In late 1982, Edward P. Boland, a Democratic representative, introduced the first in a series of "Boland amendments," which limited the Reagan Administration's ability to support the Contras, who were working to overthrow Nicaragua's left-wing Sandinista government. The Boland restrictions led White House officials to orchestrate illegal fund-raising activities for the Contras, including the sale of American weapons, via Israel, to Iran. The result was the Iran-Contra scandal of the mid-eighties. Cheney's story, according to the source, was his way of saying that, whatever a Democratic Congress might do next year to limit the President's authority, the Administration would find a way to work around it. (In response to a request for comment, the Vice-President's office said that it had no record of the discussion.)

In interviews, current and former Administration officials returned to one question: whether Cheney would be as influential in the last two years of George W. Bush's Presidency as he was in its first six. Cheney is emphatic about Iraq. In late October, he told Time, "I know what the President thinks," about Iraq. "I know what I think. And we're not looking for an exit strategy. We're looking for victory." He is equally clear that the Administration would, if necessary, use force against Iran. "The United States is keeping all options on the table in addressing the irresponsible conduct of the regime," he told an Israeli lobbying group early this year. "And we join other nations in sending that regime a clear message: we will not allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon."

The Old Guard wants to isolate Cheney and give their girl, Condoleezza Rice"--the Secretary of State--"a chance to perform." The combination of Scowcroft, Baker, and the senior Bush working together is, the general added, "tough enough to take on Cheney. One guy can't do it."

But many in the White House and the Pentagon insist that getting tough with Iran is the only way to salvage Iraq. "It's a classic case of ‘failure forward,'" a Pentagon consultant said. "They believe that by tipping over Iran they would recover their losses in Iraq--like doubling your bet.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/061127fa_fact?page=1

This "bet" is being made with YOUR money, and your son's/daughter's lives – AGAINST YOUR WILL.

The C.I.A. found no conclusive evidence, as yet, of a secret Iranian nuclear-weapons program running parallel to the civilian operations that Iran has declared to the International Atomic Energy Agency.

STOP CHENEY.

Posted by plunger at 10/02/2007 @ 07:04am
MORE AIPAC / ADL PSYOPS

THIS is how desperate the ZIONISTS are to bomb Iran for the benefit of Israel. They TOTALLY FABRICATED THIS OUTRAGEOUS STORY, and the retraction will not be noticed.

INVESTIGATE WHO PLANTED THIS OUTRAGEOUS LIE TO COMPEL A NUCLEAR WAR!!!

Canada's National Post retracts report that Iranian Jews will be forced to wear yellow patches By Yossi Melman

For a few hours on Friday, many around the world were ready to believe a report in the media that Iran had decided that Jews living there would be forced to wear a yellow strip of material on their clothing to denote their religion.

Leaders of international Jewish organizations were quick to respond, and likened the decision to the Nuremberg Laws of Nazi Germany.

The affair was sparked by a report Friday in Canada's National Post daily. According to the report, exiled Iranians had said that Jews in Iran (some 25,000 individuals) would be required to wear a yellow strip of material or yellow star on their clothing.

Members of other faiths, the report said, would also require color identification - red badges for Christians and blue strips of cloth for Zoroastrians.

As expected, the report was met with rage among human rights groups, and Jewish organizations in particular.

Canadian Jewish Congress chairman Bernie Farber saying he was "stunned" by the report on the Iranian law.

"We thought this had gone the way of the dodo bird, but clearly in Iran everything old and bad is new again," Farber said. "It's state-sponsored religious discrimination."

Rabbi Marvin Hier, the executive president of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles, was also quick to respond, and called on the UN secretary general to exert pressure to get the law abolished.

Published: Saturday, May 20, 2006

Several experts are casting doubt on reports that Iran had passed a law requiring the country's Jews and other religious minorities to wear coloured badges identifying them as non-Muslims.

The Iranian embassy in Ottawa also denied the Iranian government had passed such a law.

A news story and column by Iranian-born analyst Amir Taheri in yesterday's National Post reported that the Iranian parliament had passed a sweeping new law this week outlining proper dress for Iran's majority Muslims, including an order for Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians to wear special strips of cloth.

According to the reports, Jews were to wear yellow cloth strips, called zonnar, while Christians were to wear red and Zoroastrians blue. The Simon Wiesenthal Center and Iranian expatriates living in Canada had confirmed the order had been passed, although it still had to be approved by Iran's "Supreme Guide" Ali Khamenehi before being put into effect.

Hormoz Ghahremani, a spokesman for the Iranian embassy in Ottawa, said in an e-mail to the Post yesterday, "We wish to categorically reject the news item.

"These kinds of slanderous accusations are part of a smear campaign against Iran by vested interests, which needs to be denounced at every step."

Sam Kermanian, of the U.S.-based Iranian-American Jewish Federation, said in an interview from Los Angeles that he had contacted members of the Jewish community in Iran -- including the lone Jewish member of the Iranian parliament.

They denied any such measure was in place.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=5c7bf231-1026-4448 -a122-d8c046057913&k=39818

Posted by plunger at 10/02/2007 @ 07:06am
A VOICE OF REASON FROM WITHIN THE PENTAGON REVEALS THE TRUTH:

"I observed firsthand the formation of the Pentagon's Office of Special Plans and watched the latter stages of the neoconservative capture of the policy-intelligence nexus in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq," writes retired U.S. Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski. "This seizure of the reins of U.S. Middle East policy was directly visible to many of us working in the Near East South Asia policy office, and yet there seemed to be little any of us could do about it." Kwiatkowski writes elsewhere that "Israel's hawks have long recognized that the co-optation, or barring that, the destruction of Iraq was necessary for a more permanent approach, the clean break, the assertion of Israel's monopoly of force in the Middle East. Our country, for only two trillion dollars and a few hundred thousand dead and maimed on all sides, has facilitated the destruction of Iraq," and, if the Pentagon neocons have their way, the destruction of Iran will follow in order, according to plan, as the United States is now Israel's proxy, as Sniegoski reminds us.

Air Force Brig. Gen. Mark O. Schissler is not retired, so he has yet to experience one of JINSA's (the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs) infamous and stepfordizing Israel walking tours, but he is completely onboard with the now patented "clash of civilizations" palaver, an ideological stance well-ensconced in the Pentagon.

"The American people need to prepare for a long-duration war against radical Muslims who are set to fight for 50 to 100 years to create an Islamist state in the region," writes Bill Gertz, seasoned Iraq invasion propaganda disseminator, for the Moonie Times, otherwise known as the Washington Times. Schissler is deputy director for the "war on terrorism" within the strategic plans office of the Pentagon's Joint Staff. "I don't care about the politics.

"Our enemy," naturally, just so happens to be Israel's, as well. And although the frontline neocons--Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, and Richard Perle--are no longer at the Pentagon, their "Grand Strategy for the Middle East" (called the "Bush-Sharon Grand Strategy" in 2003 by Patrick Buchanan) lives on at the highest reaches of the Pentagon, as the remarks of Schissler reveal.

http://kurtnimmo.com/?p=697

Posted by plunger at 10/02/2007 @ 07:09am
Remember, folks, MAASCH thinks the religious right has no influence on the republicans. And he believes that I will vote for Hillary.

How astute can his political observations be? Best to stick to buying fish, John.

Posted by crabwalk at 10/02/2007 @ 07:10am
Based on the last 8 years, MAASCH gives us this one liner:

the CNP types are indeed a fringe the Repub party wil never run to their positon to garner votes and push the entire Repub party to the right.Posted by JOHN MAASCH 10/01/2007 @ 08:16am

The CNP being Dobson, Perkins etc.

hehe, better than I can get in a comedy club. Next he will be telling us about the sunrise he saw over the pacific in Seattle.

Posted by crabwalk at 10/02/2007 @ 07:14am
BTW, isn't Seattle full of librools? Librools are ignorant and lazy, why would anybody hire them for tech support? Much tech support is learned in universities. Universities are hot beds of libroolism.

Hire a techie, support libroolism and the secular fringe!

Posted by crabwalk at 10/02/2007 @ 07:23am
Here it is in black and white:

Article VI:

but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

In an interview with "U.S. News & World Report," Dobson said, "I don't think he's a Christian."

But a declaration of Thompson's religion will not be enough for Dobson, who is viewed as being widely influential with evangelical Christians, a key Republican voting bloc.

"We were pleased to learn from his spokesperson that Sen. Thompson professes to be a believer," said Nima Reza, a Dobson spokesman. "Thompson hasn't clearly communicated his religious faith, and many evangelical Christians might find this a barrier to supporting him."

America haters.

Posted by crabwalk at 10/02/2007 @ 07:30am
Who WILL you vote for Crab, just curious or have you decided yet?

Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 10/02/2007 @ 08:28am
Looks like the powers-that-be are having second thoughts about Hillary! and tarnishing her inevitability with a little bit of the Dean-scream treatment via "the cackle". Maybe her unfavorable rating just won't budge no matter how much old Bill is sent out on the charm offensive or to do her dirty work. (Her search for the center makes her disliked by all sides). Just makes it look like it is all about Bill, when we all know he can hardly control himself from it being all about Bill. And that will backfire because it will look like Hillary can't fend for herself and Bill just reinforces Clinton fatigue. Or, that Hsu problem might grow legs--or maybe it is just Clinton efforts to be in the center means they can't make a stand when it is essential to do so. Problem is I don't see any evidence that Obama, with all his platitudes about divisiveness, can really address the issues with a forceful demand for accountibility either. he simply represents the anti-Clinton. He is all about image, but he is tepid ,unsure, green. The best hope would be Gore, of course, for that across-the-board broad appeal. Americans appreciate his record of accomplishment and honorable motives and they see him more than ever as wronged as compared to the dismal Bush legacy. Gore represents what could've been. Then of course, hope is a dream.

Posted by Lil at 10/02/2007 @ 09:09am
Thank you for the interesting info on Sorenson's involvement and support of Obama in Iowa, Mr. Nichols.

And Rese and Plunger, thank you for reminding us that however corrupt our nation's federal government was prior to JFK's assassination, its been much worse since, ironically much much worse when Republicans have held the executive office, and, of course, "off the charts" now.

Fundamental change, please, i.e. eliminate the profits undergirding violent crime and, instead, incentivize peaceful activities and harmonious relations.

Posted by lewwelge at 10/02/2007 @ 09:12am
"Politicians are always realistically maneuvering for the next election. They are obsolete as fundamental problem-solvers."

BUCKMINSTER FULLER

Posted by frosty zoom at 10/02/2007 @ 10:08am
Obama?

iot's called CHARISMA.

no, it cannot be bought or sold. that is why it scares so many people half to death.

Posted by johannesrolf at 10/02/2007 @ 11:40am
it's called...

Posted by johannesrolf at 10/02/2007 @ 11:40am
HAPPY is a good guy, will...keeps idealistic types like me real...us idealistic types need haps, and they need us.

even wicked old maasch is a good guy under all those layers of evil! smart,...i always enjoy his curmudgeonly naysaying!

Posted by Idealist 10/01/2007

Nice, from US, Thanks!!!!!! ;-)

Idealists are like Entrepreneurs.....SOME will succeed wildly! I DO INVEST in Idealists!

Posted by Happy at 10/02/2007 @ 12:11pm
Posted by HAPPY 10/02/2007 @ 12:11pm

one step closer HAPPY!

Posted by frosty zoom at 10/02/2007 @ 12:21pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 10/02/2007 @ 01:26am | ignore this person

i have mixed feelings about thomas friedman...

on the one hand i think he is a genuinely decent person and therefore hate what i'm about to say on the other hand...

his analyses are right decent if they involve hindsight, but in terms of prognostcating the future or interpreting the present he has been common sensically, conventional wisdomy myopic and just not very good...

he seems to often limit himself to very safe, slightly pollyannish analysis based on the safest, least controversial interpretations of events, designed to piss off nobody and thereby arrives at pat, "gee, that's a satisfying interpretation that feels good" sort of conclusions that are actually misleading if well meaning.

he does have the integrity to say later, when its undeniably obvious, that he was wrong...but many have swallowed his comfortable mis-interpretations hook line and sinker, which generally support the powers that be, because he seems to indeed be a decent fellow.

that said, the editorial was good. his win/loss record of accuracy is about as good as the arizona cardinals however, and although i always pull for those poor perrenial losers...

i dont bet on them...

i hate to point this out, cause i like the dr. phil with a head of hair looking goober and respect hisdecency, but...

regardless...the editorial you highlighted was one i think he got right...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/02/2007 @ 12:25pm
Posted by HAPPY 10/02/2007 @ 12:11pm | ignore this person

i think of the 7 deadly sins pride is indeed the deadliest. people all ate up with it on both sides of the political fence will cling to beliefs and positions to which they attach themselves like a pit bull to a poodle carcass in the michael vick compond...

the truth is is that our system works best when a certain modicum of respect and civility is observed...makes it a lot easier for one to say "hmmm...maybe you have a point. i should reflect on this more..." regardless of political/ideological allegiance.

this is also why i love the internet so.

i used to love going out to coffee shops and arguing politics/religion, but damn if it didn't all too often devolve int unpleasant ugliness, hurt feelings, and humiliating dinks to fragile pride...especially with a bunch of folks suffering fro temporary caffiene induced psychosis (real condition, by the way)...lol...

but here

a) one expecte frothy mouthed rants and therefore tends to not get as pissed

b) can quietly slink away when bested without personal public humiliation

c) reflect more and in a more detached manner...

thank god and al gore (lol) for the internet!

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/02/2007 @ 12:46pm
There is no point in discussing civil and honest debate when civility is dead and honesty never saw the light of day. Discussion in the U.S. is nothing more than smear, trading third-hand lies and wishful thinking. The vast majority doesn't know that they don't know anything, yet they carry on with the utmost gravity when launching into their puerile adventures in shit-slinging. The circus never leaves town in the U.S.

Posted by chimichenga at 10/02/2007 @ 12:55pm
Posted by CHIMICHENGA 10/02/2007 @ 12:55pm

HIJO DE PUTA!

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

i always worry a bit when i notice the absence of a regular poster. welcome back, lengua de fuego...lol

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/02/2007 @ 1:11pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 10/02/2007 @ 12:25pm

hey, the Deetroit Lions are 3-1 so far this year.

Posted by frosty zoom at 10/02/2007 @ 1:14pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 10/02/2007 @ 12:46pm

plus we can google at home!

imagine trying to remember all this stuff.

Posted by frosty zoom at 10/02/2007 @ 1:16pm
Posted by CHIMICHENGA 10/02/2007 @ 12:55pm

ouch.

a mi, me gusta el circo, siempre y cuando traten bien a los animalitos.

Posted by frosty zoom at 10/02/2007 @ 1:18pm
Pues según los maestros todos de la chusma son animalitos...

Posted by chimichenga at 10/02/2007 @ 1:31pm
Posted by CHIMICHENGA 10/02/2007 @ 1:31pm

claro, pero a veces los tigres tragan a los maestros y el elefante puede cagar un montón sobre ellos.

además, el changuito llega a robar el sombrerito del jefe del circo.

Posted by frosty zoom at 10/02/2007 @ 1:42pm
y nunca da las llaves de la bodega al borracho...

Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 10/02/2007 @ 1:14pm |

oh yeah - another of my favorites...poor old barry sanders...the archie manning of running backs...

but at least little joey harrington is getting a fair break at hotlanta as a result of idiot vick's stupidity...the falcons may be a decent enough team for him to get the chance he deserves to shine...

poor guy...first the miscoached lions and then the miscoached fins...

but yeah - the lions are looking cindarella-y good this year...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 10/02/2007 @ 1:55pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 10/02/2007 @ 1:55pm

this gem changed my life:

"el flojo trabaja lo doble"

when i heard that, i said ¡damn!

and thank you.

Posted by frosty zoom at 10/02/2007 @ 2:14pm
so the connection to JFK is....80-year old Ted Sorenson? boy, with a connection like that, a post-modern political Camelot is pretty much guaranteed to be here in no time.

jeez, what other unbelieveably stretched, absurd, ridiculous political tripe are you going to come up with next?

the political campaign is clearly too long, even for a respected institution like the Nation.

(hey, i heard one of Reagan's speechwriters was coming out of retirement to work for Guiliani, or Romney, or Thompson, or someone, i forget which. "morning in America' is practically here; we'll soon all be able to wake up and smell those roses once again...)

Posted by Scrub at 10/03/2007 @ 3:33pm