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RedditHouse Minority Leader John Boehner wept Thursday night, as he delivered the final Republican appeal on behalf of funding President Bush's perpetual war in Iraq.
This is obviously a serious matter for the tear-inclined Ohio congressman, who last lost his composure during a February soliloquy on the need for "solemn debate" in the House.
Unfortunately for Boehner, he is seriously misinformed about the issue that is bringing him to tears.
Perhaps we can help Boehner compose himself.
The minority leader made clear that he believes it will be necessary to sacrifice more U.S. lives in Iraq as a response to the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
Speaking of the 19 religious zealots from Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Lebanon who have been identified as the perpetrators of those attacks, the ranking Republican in the House was shaking with anger at Democrats who had delayed the dispatch of the latest billions to fund the president's Iraq adventure.
"After 3,000 of our fellow citizens died at the hands of these terrorists, when are we going to stand up and take them on? When are we going to defeat 'em?" demanded Boehner. "Ladies and gentlemen, let me tell you, if we don't do it now, and if we don't have the courage to defeat this enemy, we will long, long regret it. So thank you for the commitment to get the job done today."
It appears that Boehner is suffering from some confusion about the reason why President Bush dispatched U.S. troops to Iraq.
In a moment of such confusion, perhaps it is best to turn to the commander in chief for clarification.
In August, 2006, when President Bush was explaining how the 9/11 attacks inspired his "freedom agenda," Cox News reporter Ken Herman of Cox News, interrupted to ask what Iraq had to do with 9/11. And the president set things straight once and for all.
"The terrorists attacked us and killed 3,000 of our citizens before we started the freedom agenda in the Middle East," said Bush.
"What did Iraq have to do with it?" asked Herman.
"What did Iraq have to do with what?" responded a confused Bush.
"The attack on the World Trade Center," explained Herman.
"Nothing," admitted Bush, who went on to say that "nobody has suggested in this administration that Saddam Hussein ordered the attack."
For emphasis, Bush repeated, "Nobody's ever suggested that the attacks of September the 11th were ordered by Iraq."
Hopefully, this will come as some comfort to Congressman Boehner. Debates about Iraq funding have nothing to do with September 11 or fighting terrorism. They are about whether young American men and women will continue to die in another country's civil war, and that does not seem to bother Boehner or the Congress.
So there's no need for tears here, except perhaps for the republic.
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John Nichols' new book is THE GENIUS OF IMPEACHMENT: The Founders' Cure for Royalism. Rolling Stone's Tim Dickinson hails it as a "nervy, acerbic, passionately argued history-cum-polemic [that] combines a rich examination of the parliamentary roots and past use of the 'heroic medicine' that is impeachment with a call for Democratic leaders to 'reclaim and reuse the most vital tool handed to us by the founders for the defense of our most basic liberties.'"
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John Nichols
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It doesn't seem to bother a lot of Dems.
Posted by mtspence05 at 05/25/2007 @ 10:02am
I heard a little bit of what he said in the radio. Very emotional.
But in the same way that misbehavior is often a cry for help, what sounded like a plea for renewed commitment was actually an anguished acknowledgment of failure.
Posted by MyParadigm at 05/25/2007 @ 10:12am
Pathetic --in the absurd and contemptuous sense.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 05/25/2007 @ 10:17am
So next time someone uses a slur to question the manliness of Edwards, please direct them to the blubbering house minority leader...what a baby. How can GOPers stand the sight of him?
Posted by BlueTexan at 05/25/2007 @ 10:21am
As Professor Farnsworth would say..."Good news, everyone....the Democrats say their fight has JUST BEGUN!"
By ANNE FLAHERTY
WASHINGTON (AP) - Democrats may have lost the first round with President Bush on ending the war in Iraq since taking over Congress in January, but they say their fight has just begun.
In the months ahead, lawmakers will vote repeatedly on whether U.S. troops should stay and whether Bush has the authority to continue the war. The Democratic strategy is intended to ratchet up pressure on the president, as well as on moderate Republicans who have grown tired of defending Bush administration policy in a deeply unpopular war.
"I feel a direction change in the air," said Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., chairman of the House panel that oversees military funding.
Democrats looked to the upcoming votes after losing a bruising battle with Bush on an emergency war spending bill. Lacking the two-thirds majority needed to overcome another presidential veto, Democrats dropped from the legislation a provision ordering troops home from Iraq beginning this fall.
Congress passed the revised $120 billion spending bill on Thursday, providing $95 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan through September. The House voted 280-142 to pass the bill, followed by a 80-14 vote in the Senate.
(edit)
Democrats said they were successful in moving the war debate forward and would try again when Congress takes up spending bills for the 2008 fiscal year that begins Oct. 1.
"This debate will go on," vowed House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.
"Senate Democrats will not stop our efforts to change the course of this war until either enough Republicans join with us to reject President Bush's failed policy or we get a new president," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said. ---------------------------------------------------
So, Harry Reid is prepared to wait and see if he can get more Senate Republicans (AFTER of course he gets back the 14 DEMOCRATS that voted for the bill)....or wait until January 2009!
I feel better already....don't you?
Posted by Mask at 05/25/2007 @ 10:24am
"After 3,000 of our fellow citizens died at the hands of these terrorists, when are we going to stand up and take them on? When are we going to defeat 'em?" demanded Boehner.
John Nichols, I read this as Boehner is upset about the 3000+ servicemen that have been killed by our terrorist President. I am curios as to why you think he refers to something else!
Posted by freedomplease at 05/25/2007 @ 10:24am
Yes! I never knew who that reporter was. Herman from Cox? Don't know what that is, but it was great! The reporter forced him to admit, on the spot, while in the very act of doing it, how he insinuates the connection between the two events:
"'What did Iraq have to do with it?' asked Herman.
"What did Iraq have to do with what?" responded a confused Bush.
"The attack on the World Trade Center," explained Herman.
'Nothing,' admitted Bush, who went on to say that 'nobody has suggested in this administration that Saddam Hussein ordered the attack.'
For emphasis, Bush repeated, 'Nobody's ever suggested that the attacks of September the 11th were ordered by Iraq.'"
And a few days after this he gave an interview supposedly where he said, "The hardest part of my job is explaining the connection" between the two! So, ther's no connection -- but he sees his job as explaining a connection that doesn't exist!
Basically, what they do is say: "Tair. Iraq," or "Sep. 11. Iraq," then when called on it deny that they ever said the two were connected.
As Kerry pointed out in the debate, Bush even said that "they attacked us," referring to Iraq. And Kerry carefully explained that, no, they hadn't.
Result: Swift Boating, heightened alerts, Ohio voter intimidation....
Posted by RLawrence at 05/25/2007 @ 10:26am
Posted by FREEDOMPLEASE
All those Iraqi's fighting an army of occupation are terrorists?
Posted by mtspence05 at 05/25/2007 @ 10:27am
Empty,
ummm didn't I just call our President the terrorist? If you wanna pick a fight your first swing better hit the target!
Posted by freedomplease at 05/25/2007 @ 10:29am
In fact, they're trapped in very unpleasant legal situation. They've gotta deny they misled anyone, and this includes peddling the Prague story about the connection (the Feith fantasy discussed in the Pentagon audit). So, lots of people on the hook on this, including the press.
Posted by RLawrence at 05/25/2007 @ 10:32am
Posted by FREEDOMPLEASE
Just asking a question. It's a little early to have your panties in such a wad. Relax, it's Friday.
Posted by mtspence05 at 05/25/2007 @ 10:34am
And if I recall correctly, the reporter's voice was very weary. It was like there was a strained silence in the room whle Bush was peddling some story that everyone knew was crazy. And, in frustration it seems, the reporter said, in effect, "Oh, for Pete's sake, what does one have to do with the other?"
Posted by RLawrence at 05/25/2007 @ 10:35am
Posted by FREEDOMPLEASE
Oh, and you're right too. I didn't read the post thoroughly.
Posted by mtspence05 at 05/25/2007 @ 10:37am
Just asking a question. It's a little early to have your panties in such a wad. Relax, it's Friday.
Posted by MTSPENCE05 05/25/2007 @ 10:34am
Don't you love that, FREEDOM? EMPTY screws up and blasts you unfairly for saying that the insurgents are terrorists, and then tells YOU to "relax"!
Posted by Mask at 05/25/2007 @ 10:41am
Boner...ooops, "Boehner" is a joke, and not a terribly funny one.
But speaking of "The Crying Game", let's if we can poke a stick in the Fundyvang-o-nut ant hill.
Transgender Minister Reappointed in Md. Thursday, May 24th, 2007 at 8:44pm WASHINGTON
A transgender United Methodist minister will be reappointed to lead his congregation in Baltimore, church officials announced Thursday at a regional convocation.
All of God's children
Posted by leftofcenter at 05/25/2007 @ 10:46am
Box of rocks trying to instigate. Weasel.
Posted by mtspence05 at 05/25/2007 @ 10:47am
The Republicans happened upon a winning 'disarmament strategy' towards their opponents when they found Ronnie 'Bedtime for Bonzo' Reagan to run as a sort of Nerf president.
Dubya continues the trend with a twist. He may not be as cutely furry and charming as 'headrest' was, but he disarms his critics nonetheless.
I think of Dubya as kinda like the 'killer rabbit' in Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail.
He impresses most everyone as a harmless buffoon, but in actuality he's "no ordinary rabbit, he's the most foul, cruel and bad tempered rodent you ever set eyes on. He's got huge sharp......he can leap about...........LOOK AT THE BONES!!!".
Go to Youtube and search Monty Python, Killer Rabbit if you don't believe me.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 05/25/2007 @ 10:50am
Tim.
Posted by mtspence05 at 05/25/2007 @ 10:53am
MT/MASK
Give the rest of the class a break and settle your shit at recess.
Posted by drhammer at 05/25/2007 @ 10:55am
Ohio must be a very diverse state. Someone voted for Boehner, and someone voted for Tubbs-Jones (who challenged the certification of Ohio's 2004 presidential electoral votes). I don't know whether Tubbs-Jones broke down in tears at the podium over the theft of Ohio, though.
Posted by RLawrence at 05/25/2007 @ 10:55am
Posted by DRHAMMER
He started it!
(I'm only joking, of course.)
Posted by mtspence05 at 05/25/2007 @ 10:58am
Ohio is like a lot of places. You've got your urban, Cleveland democratic segment, and there's the oddly conservative Cincinnati --spawned by a history of anti-unionism in the meat packing industry--, you've got your Columbus college town, you've got your Italian mafioso infused Youngstown, and you've got the appalachian southeastern swath to name a few segments of Ohio's body politic.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 05/25/2007 @ 11:03am
Posted by MTSPENCE05 05/25/2007 @ 10:47am
Ahh, but an intellectual box of rocks, as opposed to GW "dumb as a rock" Bush. As to weasel....naw, I'm neither devious nor malevolent. But an instigator...sure, it's been a slow morning.
Posted by leftofcenter at 05/25/2007 @ 11:07am
What'd be worse is if Boneher actually believes it!!
Posted by hsuBfools at 05/25/2007 @ 11:11am
please what a act ,go have another bourbon or whatever you had that day ,what a laugh ,give me a break ,WHAT A JOKE i think you get what i'm saying
Posted by studlyguy at 05/25/2007 @ 11:12am
Crocodile tears.
Posted by skeletonman at 05/25/2007 @ 11:20am
Speaking of Ohio by the way, the behavior of the Democrats over the last week or so in particular imparts a whole new meaning to the term "Cleveland steamer".
The entire nation is buried in a steamy load today.
Sorry, that one presented itself as a slow, high hanging curveball.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 05/25/2007 @ 11:26am
So, he cried making his cae...and you find this a bad thing? I don't find an out burst of emotion from someone moved enough to express his/her feelings with passion offensive or unmanly, quite the opposite....
It is a lesson Hillary could use, along with a dose of passion...as well as a dose estrogen..to reduce hr testicles down a little...as ridiculous an image as it may be..I wonder what a feminine Hillary would look and sound limke...as opposed to everyones nightmatre vision of a bitter ex wife...even singlwe guys cringe..
I will take the emotional honesty from a man strong in his beliefs over and in the face of all critics here over shrill testoterone...from the woman in the lead of a pack of jackels.....
Posted by john maasch at 05/25/2007 @ 11:27am
We can only support the troops by keeping them on the firing line as long as possible. We must keep them in Iraq until Usama is satisfied that we have blown enough money and his minions have perfected the IED.
Posted by crabwalk at 05/25/2007 @ 11:28am
"emotional honesty"
hehe. Is that like Prophetic symbolism?"
Read your words, John. You just called a guvt official, a member of congress of all things, ...honest. You! That's pretty ironic, no?
Posted by crabwalk at 05/25/2007 @ 11:31am
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 05/25/2007 @ 11:27am
If a Democrat or a woman did this your side would be acting like a bunch of hyenas, pronouncing such a person unfit to serve.
Personally, I don't give a big rat's ass what the guy does, 'cause it's 10 pounds of BS in a 5 pound sack any way you look at it.
Posted by skeletonman at 05/25/2007 @ 11:33am
Now, if someone, say Al Gore, cried making his case for leaving the world a cleaner place than we found it, would John call him honest?
That is going to make the rest of my day!! "honest emotion". hehe. From a politician. hehe.
Posted by crabwalk at 05/25/2007 @ 11:33am
honest. You! That's pretty ironic, no?
Posted by CRABWALK 05/25/2007 @ 11:31am
Im see your point..but I was refering to the person....but I definately see your point...
and aren't you a bit curious what a femine Hillary would look like? You know, as oner on the right, I never held "Bills wanderin' off" against him, hell, I understand it completly...just his taste sometimes...although, Denise Rich, if you have ever seen her..was/is extremely shapely and pretty...
Posted by john maasch at 05/25/2007 @ 11:34am
Maybe he was crying over the money that would be lost by the mercenaries and Halliburtons.
Posted by crabwalk at 05/25/2007 @ 11:34am
"Now, if someone, say Al Gore, cried making his case for leaving the world a cleaner place than we found it, would John call him honest?"
Sure, and when he does, I will...right after he sells me his honest indulgences for my car and his private jet....or his honset electric bill....
Posted by john maasch at 05/25/2007 @ 11:35am
and aren't you a bit curious what a femine Hillary would look like?
NO! God No! I try not to think about things like that while eating! Or sleeping. (shiver)
Posted by crabwalk at 05/25/2007 @ 11:36am
"If a Democrat or a woman did this your side would be acting like a bunch of hyenas, pronouncing such a person unfit to serve. '
Only unfit if they continue to push for the far left kook policys..like AQ will leave us alone after we leave Iraq, or the last 15 years of attacks are only our imagination...but emotional honesty, I have no problem..and I admit it is as rare as a dry Kennedy Oldsmobile.(couldn't resist, after all, we are talking honest politicians here)
Pass the raw meat.
Posted by john maasch at 05/25/2007 @ 11:39am
like AQ will leave us alone after we leave Iraq
Who claimed that?
Posted by crabwalk at 05/25/2007 @ 11:40am
Posted by CRABWALK 05/25/2007 @ 11:36am
I wonder when we are going to get a hot female candidate...I bet the cross over vote would be staggering...from either party..:)
Posted by john maasch at 05/25/2007 @ 11:41am
Who claimed that?
Posted by CRABWALK 05/25/2007 @ 11:40am
Most here pooh-pooh the idea of fight them there soi we don't have to fight them here..
Posted by john maasch at 05/25/2007 @ 11:41am
"and aren't you a bit curious what a femine Hillary would look like?
NO! God No! I try not to think about things like that while eating! Or sleeping. (shiver)
Posted by CRABWALK 05/25/2007 @ 11:36am |
MAKE NO MISTAKE..I AM NOT TALKING SANS CLOTHES HERE...PLEASE..
Posted by john maasch at 05/25/2007 @ 11:42am
What if Boneher REALLY IS THAT DUMB? Believes the crap hsuB/cHeney is spewing? No noboby can be that dumb. PERHAPS it's not too many martinis, but mind altering drugs or a mind manipulating intel device? e.g. all the DoJ doing illegal vote tamporing/obstruction of justice, but can't remember actually doing it!?!? Why congress can't stopp giving them billions of dollars to kill our troops!?!?! THAT'S the reason hsuB/cHeney are not being put in jail for ignoring intel about 9/11, lying us into Iraq war, torture, spying on us illegally, not responding to Katrina, war profiteering, using the DoJ to subvert the constitution,... The WH IS using a mind manipulation device. That explains everything. NO WONDER. And it made Boneher cry.
Posted by hsuBfools at 05/25/2007 @ 11:43am
"Only unfit if they continue to push for the far left kook policys..like AQ will leave us alone after we leave Iraq..." Posted by JOHN MAASCH
That's not the argument. We're wasting lives and money on a war that has nothing to do with Al Qaeda. The money and lives would be much better spent going after Al Qaeda. How much has the country spent? how many lives lost? And yet Osama is still at large.
Posted by mtspence05 at 05/25/2007 @ 11:44am
OK I'll bite.
Al qeada will go where we are... What the hell-- WHY AREN'T WE GOING WHERE THEY ARE?
Posted by hsuBfools at 05/25/2007 @ 11:45am
I wonder when we are going to get a hot female candidate...I bet the cross over vote would be staggering...from either party..:)
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 05/25/2007 @ 11:41am | ignore this person
sexist tripe.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/25/2007 @ 11:45am
Most here pooh-pooh the idea of fight them there soi we don't have to fight them here..
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 05/25/2007 @ 11:41am
Thats because it is an idea full of shit. It has nothing to do with "if we leave they will not attack us here". They will still want to get us here, even while we give them easy targets in Iraq. If we leave Iraq, the 2% that are Al Qaeda in Iraq will have to get over a couple of continents and an ocean. Do-able, but much more difficult. Plus, chimpy has the Dept. Of Homeland Security. Surely they are doing a bang up job securing our country.
Posted by crabwalk at 05/25/2007 @ 11:48am
I wonder when we are going to get a hot female candidate...I bet the cross over vote would be staggering...from either party..:)
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 05/25/2007 @ 11:41am | ignore this person
sexist tripe.
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 05/25/2007 @ 11:45am
but not incorrect. Look at Chimpy. He made the lady sheep all hot and bothered. He made the male sheep want to go to bars with Him. A cute, god fearin' man was the ticket for sheep in 2000, 2004.
Posted by crabwalk at 05/25/2007 @ 11:49am
This is AMERICA Johannes. Looks sell.
See Pah-mella and the fat dead chick.
Posted by crabwalk at 05/25/2007 @ 11:51am
The US presence in Iraq provides Al Qaeda types with:
training/experience in a war zone
accessible targets
motivational propaganda
martyrs
Posted by mtspence05 at 05/25/2007 @ 11:53am
Maybe he was crying over the money that would be lost by the mercenaries and Halliburtons.
Posted by CRABWALK
Well put. Either that, or he was laughing so hard he appeared to be crying. You just know Bush, Cheney, and the rest of the Hitler youth have to laugh their asses off at the lies they pull off on a daily basis. How come they haven't attacked Saudi Arabia yet? Most of the guys responsible for 9/11 were from there including Bin Forgotten. The only time we hear about him is when Bushco wish to instill fear into the populace. Bin Laden is Karl Rove's ace up his sleeve. The only problem is that people are starting to catch on to the Rovian game plan. I guess it's time for them to start hatching new lies.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 05/25/2007 @ 11:54am
Where are most of Al Qeada? The Afganistan/Pakistan border-- our troops plus NATO, Russia and China, I do believe-- if we had a REAL leader and not a bought off by big business/MIC resider, could get a coalition such as that in there and clean it up. hsuB/cHeney are greed whipped pussies that screwed up everything with their greed weakness.
Posted by hsuBfools at 05/25/2007 @ 12:01pm
xist tripe.
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 05/25/2007 @ 11:45am
True enough, but it is fun...lighten up...there has been a lot of heat and fur flying here the last week....a little tripe is needed now and then...
Posted by john maasch at 05/25/2007 @ 12:04pm
Greed is weak. Brings out the baser instinct-- fear.
Posted by hsuBfools at 05/25/2007 @ 12:06pm
Yeah, I can see Boneher crying over losing money. Greed is weak.
Posted by hsuBfools at 05/25/2007 @ 12:08pm
Looked for that interview where Bush followed up his previous admission that there was no connection with an odd statement that it was "part of his job" to make the connection anyway. Turns out it was an interview with Katie Couric. Truthdig has a short transcript. www.truthdig.com. Their commentary posted on Sep 7, 2006: "Quote of the week. Bush, in an Oval Office interview with Katie Couric: ‘The hardest part of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror....' Why should that be so tough? Sure, Iraq didn't have WMD, wasn't harboring terrorists, and had nothing to do with 9/11, but.... OK, maybe it should be kind of tough."
Posted by RLawrence at 05/25/2007 @ 12:13pm
Maasch, you may post sexist tripe, and I may call you on it. you lighten up.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/25/2007 @ 12:14pm
"That's not the argument. We're wasting lives and money on a war that has nothing to do with Al Qaeda."
Here is where the crux of the disagreements collide...I feel the opposite...however, O do know Iraq was botched totally,...and
"will have to get over a couple of continents and an ocean."
They are already here...and all they have to do i walk accross the Rio not so Grande..
which brings me full circle to why I am down on almost all things Bush...the open border...we are not safe...
as far as bin Laden...if he is alive he is stuck hiding in a cave...I would like to go aftert all AQ types, but that involves crossing soverign borders and wse are full circle again....look at the threars Iran is making and all here are shitting their pants that the US might do something about it...we just see it and the AQ battles differently.
Posted by john maasch at 05/25/2007 @ 12:32pm
.if he is alive he is stuck hiding in a cave.
nah, he's not hiding at all. he is swimming in a sea of likeminded muslims. the person turning him in will not live to spend the reward. that would be the mother of all fatwas. one of the richest men on earth hiding in a cave? hahahahaha
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/25/2007 @ 12:38pm
John "BONER" (when two vowels go walking, the first one does the talking) needs to have his doctor prescribe some medication to keep his emotions under control.
Posted by Hernova at 05/25/2007 @ 1:02pm
Posted by HERNOVA
I hate to sound like Johannes, but the second vowel does the talking in German.
Posted by mtspence05 at 05/25/2007 @ 1:08pm
(when two vowels go walking, the first one does the talking)>/i>
Deep belly laugh!
C'mon, what do you think all the tough war monger Guys called Baynoor in school?
Posted by crabwalk at 05/25/2007 @ 1:19pm
which brings me full circle to why I am down on almost all things Bush-Posted by JOHN MAASCH 05/25/2007 @ 12:32pm
MASK!!!
Make sure to archive this one!!! We got ourselves a flip-flopper.
Welcome. Welcome to the dark side. AKA the Awoken. soon, soon you will buy some pituly oil and beads.
Posted by crabwalk at 05/25/2007 @ 1:24pm
Posted by MTSPENCE05 05/25/2007 @ 1:08pm
Empty, you just solved a long, long mystery as to why my grandmother pronounces our name one way, when clearly (in English) it should be another . Had I studied the mother tongue I would have known this.
thank you.
Posted by crabwalk at 05/25/2007 @ 1:26pm
I hate to sound like Johannes, but the second vowel does the talking in German.
Posted by MTSPENCE05 05/25/2007 @ 1:08pm | ignore this person
certainly not.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/25/2007 @ 3:04pm
on Boehner, the ö vowel is long,very long due to the h, the ner is short. an' dat's de trut.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/25/2007 @ 3:07pm
John Maash,
Do you honestly believe that AQ is completely tied up "fighting us over there"? This is not a state sponsored military unit. If they can get to us here, they will, regardless of what our military is doing in Iraq.
Posted by rayn at 05/25/2007 @ 3:08pm
The wienie. Who does he thing he's fooling?
He reminds me of other great criers like Tammy Faye Bakker, The Rev. Jimmy "I have sinned" Swaggart, Republican Congressmen Randy "Duke" "I got caught and now I'm going to prison" Cunningham. What a disgusting bunch.
"It is not whether you really cry. It's whether the audience thinks you are crying."
Ingrid Bergman
itmfa
Posted by COProgressive at 05/25/2007 @ 3:17pm
"it's only a movie, Ingrid" Hitch
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/25/2007 @ 3:25pm
Do you honestly believe that AQ is completely tied up "fighting us over there"? This is not a state sponsored military unit. If they can get to us here, they will, regardless of what our military is doing in Iraq.
Posted by RAYN 05/25/2007 @ 3:08pm | ignore this person
right you are. they seem to have an inexhaustible supply of Kamikazes in Iraq. I'm sure they could spare a dozen or so, to follow us home right now.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/25/2007 @ 3:28pm
I hate to sound like Johannes,
Posted by MTSPENCE05 05/25/2007 @ 1:08pm | ignore this person
you wish.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/25/2007 @ 3:33pm
Posted by CRABWALK 05/25/2007 @ 1:24pm
CRAB, not sure I count as "Awoken"....I voted for Kerry in 2004, which I doubt JOHN MAASCH did.
Posted by Mask at 05/25/2007 @ 4:18pm
So, he cried making his cae...and you find this a bad thing? I don't find an out burst of emotion from someone moved enough to express his/her feelings with passion offensive or unmanly, quite the opposite....
It is a lesson Hillary could use, along with a dose of passion...as well as a dose estrogen..to reduce hr testicles down a little...as ridiculous an image as it may be..I wonder what a feminine Hillary would look and sound limke...as opposed to everyones nightmatre vision of a bitter ex wife...even singlwe guys cringe..
I will take the emotional honesty from a man strong in his beliefs over and in the face of all critics here over shrill testoterone...from the woman in the lead of a pack of jackels.....
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 05/25/2007 @ 11:27am If he believes this crap, I've got some ocean front property in Arizona to sell him. What a pinhead. And jesus, Maasch, learn to type, OK?
Posted by brantl at 05/25/2007 @ 4:28pm
"A little patience and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt…..if the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake."
Thomas Jefferson - 1798
Posted by Henry Queve at 05/25/2007 @ 4:52pm
Where are most of Al Qeada? The Afganistan/Pakistan border-- our troops plus NATO, Russia and China, I do believe-- if we had a REAL leader and not a bought off by big business/MIC resider, could get a coalition such as that in there and clean it up. hsuB/cHeney are greed whipped pussies that screwed up everything with their greed weakness.
Posted by HSUBFOOLS HSUBFOOLS, You hit the nail on the head. Hey, keep in mind that these tough guy republican types are the same jackasses who ran like little girls when uncle sam pointed his cane at them to serve in Vietnam. I find it somewhat amazing how the republican party seems to think it's the tough party as far as war is concerned. These Tom Delay types would crap their pants in combat action. What they are really good at is getting middle class and poor peoples' kids killed in action. I think if you truly believe we should be fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan, get you butt over to the Army, Navy, Air Force or Marine recruiting station and head over to the Middle East and mix it up. The armed forces need bodies to send back in bags and in air evacuation units to hospitals. Otherwise, shut the hell up about fighting them over there. I also think that the people who think we should stay over there should also get their kids, cousins,brothers, sisters, nephews etc. to sign up too. Hey, you want to wave the flag around and be patriotic, do it for real.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 05/25/2007 @ 4:53pm
"A little patience and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt…..if the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake."
Thomas Jefferson - 1798
Posted by Henry Queve at 05/25/2007 @ 4:53pm
"A little patience and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to its true principles. It is true that in the meantime we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war and long oppressions of enormous public debt…..if the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, and then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are at stake."
Thomas Jefferson - 1798
Posted by Henry Queve at 05/25/2007 @ 4:54pm
So many possible reasons for the tears. It could be a Jimmy Swaggert cry for help. It could be that he's still upset that he's called a "minority" anything. It could be that he was forced to miss his daily tanning and coiffing to head to the House floor. Or it just could be that years of trying to put rhetorical square pegs in round holes have finally tuckered him out and he needs a nap.
Posted by tjbehrens1 at 05/25/2007 @ 4:55pm
So, Henry, perhaps you could quote some Jefferson for us...say, something from 1798.
Posted by tjbehrens1 at 05/25/2007 @ 4:56pm
Pardon the length, but seemed appropriate:
Report: Iraq Problems Were Anticipated Friday, May 25th, 2007 at 10:47am WASHINGTON
U.S. intelligence analysts predicted, in two papers widely circulated before the 2003 Iraq invasion, that al-Qaida would see that as an opportunity to increase its operations and that Iran would try to shape the post-Saddam era.
The top analysts in government also said that establishing a stable democracy in Iraq would be a long, turbulent challenge.
Democrats said the documents, part of a Senate Intelligence Committee investigation released Friday, make clear that the Bush administration was warned about the challenges it now faces as it tries to stabilize Iraq.
"Sadly, the administration's refusal to heed these dire warnings _ and worse, to plan for them _ has led to tragic consequences for which our nation is paying a terrible price," said Senate Intelligence Chairman Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va.
But some Republicans rejected the committee's work as flawed. The committee's top Republican, Sen. Kit Bond of Missouri, said the report's conclusions selectively highlight the intelligence agencies' findings that seem to be important now, distorting the picture of what was presented to policymakers.
He said the committee's work on the Iraq intelligence "has become too embroiled in politics and partisanship to produce an accurate and meaningful report."
Asked about the report at his Thursday news conference, President Bush stood by his decision to topple the Iraqi regime. He said he firmly believes the world is better off without Saddam Hussein in power.
"Going into Iraq, we were warned about a lot of things, some of which happened, some of which didn't happen. And, obviously, as I made a decision ... I weighed the risks and rewards of any decision," he said.
Posted by leftofcenter at 05/25/2007 @ 5:04pm
posted by LEFTOFCENTER 05/25/2007 @ 5:04pm
"Some of which happened, some of which didn't happen."
Hmm, I suppose he could say this. But what of the things HE warned US of? Probably a lot more like "none of which happened". Kind of an important and unfortunate time to get something entirely wrong.
Posted by tjbehrens1 at 05/25/2007 @ 5:10pm
you wish.
Posted by JOHANNESROLF
Good come back, Johannes. How long did it take you to come up with that?
Posted by mtspence05 at 05/25/2007 @ 5:33pm
not very long. you were wrong about the german, incidentally. did you notice that? how long before you are able to acknowledge that?
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/25/2007 @ 5:58pm
So, he cried making his cae...and you find this a bad thing? I don't find an out burst of emotion from someone moved enough to express his/her feelings with passion offensive or unmanly, quite the opposite....
It is a lesson Hillary could use, along with a dose of passion...as well as a dose estrogen..to reduce hr testicles down a little...as ridiculous an image as it may be..I wonder what a feminine Hillary would look and sound limke...as opposed to everyones nightmatre vision of a bitter ex wife...even singlwe guys cringe..
I will take the emotional honesty from a man strong in his beliefs over and in the face of all critics here over shrill testoterone...from the woman in the lead of a pack of jackels.....
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 05/25/2007 @ 11:27am
Your confused Maasch. Just because Boehner believes Iraq and 9/11 are connected does not mean that they are.
People can believe whatever they like but that does not make it true.
Posted by hhemwm at 05/25/2007 @ 7:07pm
I will take the emotional honesty from a man strong in his beliefs over and in the face of all critics here over shrill testoterone...from the woman in the lead of a pack of jackels.....
I repeat: just because he BELIEVES it to be true does not MAKE IT TRUE.
Posted by hhemwm at 05/25/2007 @ 7:09pm
And how likely do you think it is that Boehner is unaware that Iraq and Al-Qaeda were not in cahoots? Heck, even the president admitted it!
Pack of jackals. . . I guess Boehner is a bunny rabbit.
Posted by hhemwm at 05/25/2007 @ 7:10pm
They are already here...and all they have to do i walk accross the Rio not so Grande..
which brings me full circle to why I am down on almost all things Bush...the open border...we are not safe...
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 05/25/2007
Why not the Canadian border? Why always Mexico? Did it occur to you how open the U.S.-Canadian border is?
Besides, your point makes little sense if you consider that Bin-Laden's Al-Qaeda is so well-funded. Why would they need to sneak across the border? They didn't have to in 2001. And our immigration policy is not the issue when it comes to terrorism; don't conflate your fear of immigration with the entirely different issue that is terrorism. Don't you see? A tourist could come into this country and wreak the havoc you fear.
Counter-terrorism strategies are not the same issue as military campaigns, armed occupations, nation-building and immigration. These are separate issues. You have to know the particular issues before you can start drawing links between them.
I am telling you, you are a Tom Tancredo voter only don't know it.
Posted by hhemwm at 05/25/2007 @ 7:17pm
By the way, Maasch. Where was the largest border arrest of suspected terrorists trying to seek admission into the United States?
The Canada-U.S. border. Not Mexico-U.S.
This is a comparison of the Canada-U.S. and Mexico-U.S. border patrols (of which the souther border has triple the agents): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/05/AR200606 0501008_pf.html
It is worth noting that border officials note that they think the northern border is no longer especially porous.
Posted by hhemwm at 05/25/2007 @ 7:24pm
Maasch, you should check this link out discussing how the focus on the southern border is misplaced as most arrests have come on the northern border. It is an audio link at NPR: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5451766
Maybe this will ease your fears that all things evil are coming up from the South.
Posted by hhemwm at 05/25/2007 @ 7:27pm
It is worth noting that border officials note that they think the northern border is no longer especially porous.
you believe that?
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/25/2007 @ 7:56pm
Put on your common sense hat people. For those of you that don't own one - nevermind.
No Al-Q in Iraq before we went in?
How many places in the world do we all know that The AL-Q is operating in? I'd say too many to name. But, they were not in Iraq?
Don't give me that, because saddem wouldn't allow it cause that's bullshit.
Posted by USAPRIDE at 05/25/2007 @ 8:27pm
I'd say too many to name.---Posted by USAPRIDE 05/25/2007 @ 8:27pm
So why didn't we invade them?
Posted by Mask at 05/25/2007 @ 8:39pm
Because the greatest risk was to allow saddam insane unchecked.
IE: 2 + 2 = 4
Get it?
Posted by USAPRIDE at 05/25/2007 @ 8:51pm
So, he cried making his cae...and you find this a bad thing? I don't find an out burst of emotion from someone moved enough to express his/her feelings with passion offensive or unmanly, quite the opposite....
It's his neo-fascism brimming over, Maasch. You may find that delightful but it disgusts most Americans these days. The good old days when America was living in deathly fear of an another WTC were your salad days but they're over now.
I will take the emotional honesty from a man strong in his beliefs over and in the face of all critics here over shrill testoterone...from the woman in the lead of a pack of jackels.....
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 05/25/2007 @ 11:27am
How did you develop this fear of being out-testosteroned by a woman? Did it take you suddenly or has it been creeping up for years?
By the way, I saw this because someone else quoted it. You're still on ignore. I just can't take it.
Posted by fromredbird at 05/25/2007 @ 9:52pm
Because the greatest risk was to allow saddam insane unchecked.
Posted by USAPRIDE 05/25/2007 @ 8:51pm
Oh, yeah.....what would he have done?
Given his "nukes" to Al Queda, that he feared? Or his "bio-weapons"? Or his "chemical stockpiles"?
Would he have killed 3500+ US service people....and how? Would he have cost us $500 BILLION dollars and climbing? Would he have made us an invading and occupying army for the first time in 30 years and rallied extremists forces against us, while alienating every single ally we had against us, including most of the British people?
What would Saddam in power today have done worse? Killed 10,000 more Iraqi civilians? Except that we or their own civil war has killed atleast 100,000?
How much WORSE would it have been if we hadn't invaded?....give me some facts and figures?
Posted by Mask at 05/25/2007 @ 10:12pm
Boehner may be given to tears but he probably sees what no one here, as far as I can read recognises and that is that al Qaeda is engaged in the same sort of indiscriminate killing as the movement was on 9/11.
Whether al Qaeda was operating substantially in Iraq prior to March 2003 is only relevant for those who are into the ideological blame game. Iraqi men, women and children are being purposely blown up at places like markets, universities and schools in Iraq right now. And this primarily by al Qaeda operatives, if we are to believe the military and media opinion coming out of Iraq. That surely is about the most powerful possible act of terrorism anyone can perpetrate and is it just possible that Boehner's tears were also for them?
Those who claim that this would not have occurred if Saddam's regime was not removed, are unaware or conveniently forget that children, women and men were systematically targeted by that regime for rape, torture and death, by the then existing state apparatus and on a massive scale. Hence the "Butcher of Baghdad" title Iraqis gave to Saddam.
Then of course there is the claim that these present innocents would not be getting killed if the Coalition were to leave. That is not true for al Qaeda, which has as it's goal the removal of the present Iraq government and the "heretical" shiites from any leadership role. The most obvious conclusion is that unless al Qaeda could be restrained or defeated by Iraq government forces once the US leaves, al Qaeda which is presently being restrained with the help of the US military would embark on even greater,unrestrained terrorist activity against the innocents than it does at present.
Perhaps Boehner is more perceptive than most here are willing to acknowledge.
Posted by lrjones4 at 05/25/2007 @ 10:47pm
"Why not the Canadian border? Why always Mexico? Did it occur to you how open the U.S.-Canadian border is?"
Yes, I lived in Minnesota and Wisconsin and I witnessed, personaly for years, all the Canadians poring into Minnesota and Wisconsin....for medical care.
Posted by john maasch at 05/25/2007 @ 11:37pm
Whether al Qaeda was operating substantially in Iraq prior to March 2003 is only relevant for those who are into the ideological blame game.
Actually it is relevant because it speaks to the credibility of the very same people who are running our current policy in Iraq. Consequently, when they say that our continued presence there is necessary, we can way their competence and credibility to make such a statement.
Those who claim that this would not have occurred if Saddam's regime was not removed, are unaware or conveniently forget that children, women and men were systematically targeted by that regime for rape, torture and death,
There are many government that do that. There are also wars, such as the recent civil war in Zaire, that killed at least a million. I doubt that you were advocating action about that so please don't pretend that is anything from a pretext for going into Iraq.
The most obvious conclusion is that unless al Qaeda could be restrained or defeated by Iraq government forces once the US leaves, al Qaeda which is presently being restrained with the help of the US military would embark on even greater,unrestrained terrorist activity against the innocents than it does at present.
Actually, the most logical approach is that, without a US occupation to fight against, anti-alQaida Sunnis and Shi'ites might find some common cause. Some Sunnis have been willing to negotiate but a commitment to US withdrawal is one of the things they are asking for.
hat surely is about the most powerful possible act of terrorism anyone can perpetrate and is it just possible that Boehner's tears were also for them?
No, he was talking 9/11 and attempting to piggyback Iraq onto that. Any obfuscation from you to the contrary doesn't change that.
Posted by brunowe at 05/26/2007 @ 12:12am
Yes, I lived in Minnesota and Wisconsin and I witnessed, personaly for years, all the Canadians poring into Minnesota and Wisconsin....for medical care.
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 05/25/2007
Oh dear me. . . haven't we been over this one already?
But you do know how to change the subject well.
Posted by hhemwm at 05/26/2007 @ 12:20am
It must have been quite a journey into Wisconsin since to get there from Canada you have to go by boat. . . I think I missed the story about the Canadian boat people heading into northern Wisconsin for care.
As for Minnesota, I don't recall International Falls, Duluth, Hibbing or Chisholm being hot spots either. But maybe they came in droves from Thunder Bay, Kenora or Rainy Lake down to the Twin Cities for care.
They must have been very visible too. Did you count license plates?
Posted by hhemwm at 05/26/2007 @ 12:21am
How many of those Canadians sought refuge and didn't return home? You should contract out to the state bureaucracy in St. Paul and provide them with the data on this. I hear it is becoming quite a problem.
Here in Ontario the newspapers and radio are flooded with stories of people fleeing Toronto to go to Buffalo for care . . . or Detroit or Port Huron. It is like a mass migration. . . .
Posted by hhemwm at 05/26/2007 @ 12:24am
It is worth noting that border officials note that they think the northern border is no longer especially porous.
you believe that?
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 05/25/2007
I know that more arrests have come from the U.S.-Canadian border than the border with Mexico.
I don't know enough about the logistics of border control. But what is clear is that there is some inappropriate conflation of terrorism and immigration policy occurring because it serves the cause of xenophobia all-too-well.
It reminds me of the demonization of Germans during WWI. And then the Japanese during WWII. There is a pattern here.
Posted by hhemwm at 05/26/2007 @ 12:27am
I also think we too easily forget that one of the worst acts of domestic terrorism to occur on our soil was done by American citizens in Oklahoma City.
Counter-terrorism is not the same thing as stricter immigration laws. The two are not directly related.
Posted by hhemwm at 05/26/2007 @ 12:29am
HH, I just meant that this is a very long border with canada, our largest trading partner, as we are to them.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/26/2007 @ 12:52am
"It must have been quite a journey into Wisconsin since to get there from Canada you have to go by boat. . . I think I missed the story about the Canadian boat people heading into northern Wisconsin for care. "
I am sure you missed the story and many more. A lot of happenings do not get printed. We don't care if you can't figure out how those sneaky Canadians got into our country, but the do pay cash, from what I heard..
They drove or flew I guess...not really relevent...my faimily has a number of doctors, as well as our friends ...Minneapolis has a number of great clinics for them(Canadians and US) to choose from...
.. my Uncles clinic is in Norhtern Wisconsin...he was physcian of the year a while back..
I don't really care if you think its a joke or not..we ,in our home know the truth about many Canadians coming South for health care...
I know you do not want to think the US care is better than anyone else..or that Canadians would consider leaving their perfect free care system to come here..but the fact remains the US has the best medical care in the world, but has a flawed delivery system.
Now, back to your thread..whatever it was..
Posted by john maasch at 05/26/2007 @ 01:00am
"How many of those Canadians sought refuge and didn't return home?"
we had a youth pastor a few years back from Cananda..great guy...was deported for staying longer thanhis visa...had to go to courrt and was denied a longer stay...he was driven to the airport by the Mexican man in our church after his going away party, who has been here for 10 years illegally...ironic.
Posted by john maasch at 05/26/2007 @ 01:03am
Sorry about 3 rd grade typing..too tired and am going to bed..
Posted by john maasch at 05/26/2007 @ 01:04am
"They must have been very visible too. Did you count license plates?
Posted by HHEMWM 05/26/2007 @ 12:21am "
No. Canadian dollars. They pay cash.
Posted by john maasch at 05/26/2007 @ 01:06am
And this primarily by al Qaeda operatives, if we are to believe the military and media opinion coming out of Iraq• NEW: 65 bodies found in Baghdad, Baquba • 13 convicted "terrorist-criminals" hanged • Gunmen steal nearly a million dollars outside Iraqi bank • Mehdi Army replaces al Qaeda in Iraq as biggest danger, Pentagon finds Adjust font size:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Shiite Muslim cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's Mehdi Army has replaced al Qaeda in Iraq as "the most dangerous accelerant" of the sectarian violence plaguing Iraq for nearly a year, according to a Pentagon report.
Attacks by Iraqi insurgents and sectarian militias jumped 22 percent from mid-August to mid-November, and Iraqi civilians suffered the bulk of casualties, according to the quarterly report released on Monday.
USANATIONALISTPRIDE: the pentagon says AL Qaeda was not operating n Iraq prior to your invasion of choice. No relationship with your boogeyman.Deal with it.
Take a gander at a real news source: http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=3517
Before the U.S. military killed Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al Qaeda in Iraq was the face of the insurgency. Yet his group was probably responsible for only 5–10 percent of the insurgent attacks. What about the other 90 percent? FP takes a look at the other major insurgent groups in Iraq--who they are, what they are trying to accomplish, and which ones are more likely to negotiate than fight to the death.
but, I guess if one operates out of the 1% doctrine, 5% is a lot. Scared sheep, don't even know who they are fighting, they just want dead, burnt bodies, veins in their teeth.
The Brits confirmed the Lancet study and it's accuracy. At this point nearly 750,000 Iraqis have been killed since the invasion of choice. Thats Saddam level killing. That is worthy of a weeping congressman.
Posted by crabwalk at 05/26/2007 @ 05:17am
Read Fiasco and Emerald City. then get back to us about how well things are going in Iraq. Stop listening to ChimpCo talking points, they have zero credibility.
Posted by crabwalk at 05/26/2007 @ 05:20am
No. Canadian dollars. They pay cash.
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 05/26/2007
Hospitals that accept Canadian dollars for expensive procedures? That's a new one.
I didn't realize Canadians came south with bags of cash to pay for high-cost care. You realize that when people come south, according to your argument, they do it for the complicated procedures which run in the thousands to tens of thousands of dollars. Canadians don't have private insurance to pay for this in the states so it is incredibly expensive to pay for it and who pays in cash? Much less cash in a currency that is not accepted?
You are going to have to try a little harder than that.
I never said American care was not good care. What I am pointing out is that you have this assumption that Canadians come in flocks to the U.S. for care because they think the American system is superior and that just is not true. Canadians love their national system and routinely cite it as one of the chief differences (positive differences) with the U.S. It is a source of considerable national pride.
It seems to me you are repeating one of the old apologetics about how expensive the American system is and its failure to insure more than 45 million citizens.
American care is good in many places (not all). But it is very pricey and a lot of firms don't provide it for their employees which makes it a very high monthly cost which, seems to me, erases the difference in wages between the two countries that many people point to. I have some experience with that myself, having bought my own health insurance for years in the U.S. before moving to Ontario.
Posted by hhemwm at 05/26/2007 @ 11:17am
Besides, you also know that quality of care depends on the hospital and those who staff it. To say, in general, that American care is better means that American hospitals, in general, are better. Where is the proof of that?
Besides, that is like comparing apples and oranges as there are far far more hospitals in the U.S. because the population is ten times that of Canada.
It is a specious argument.
Posted by hhemwm at 05/26/2007 @ 11:19am
HH, the fact is that none, none, of the many countries that have universal health care, have shown any interest in abandoning it. it is also a fact that we spend far, far more and get less.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/26/2007 @ 11:52am
"Hospitals that accept Canadian dollars for expensive procedures? That's a new one."
Sure they do..they take any money they can get..don't be silly. I will take Canadian dollars...you should be areful, tho, stores in Minneapolis tend to give Canadian change back every once in a while.
"I didn't realize Canadians came south with bags of cash to pay for high-cost care. "
They don't come for high cost care, they come for serious care when it is needed faster than the line system up north.
The system up North works well form physical, quick care and many other services, but when you are in real trouble and need, you will find your name on a waiting list...there are quite a few doctors from up North, working down South..I wonder why...
"Besides, that is like comparing apples and oranges as there are far far more hospitals in the U.S. because the population is ten times that of Canada. "
This is true, and maybe why the in our country trying to set up a buerocratic mess for 300 million may degrade the sytem so badly as to render it unacceptable...as much as big corportions are poor at customer service.
Posted by john maasch at 05/26/2007 @ 12:27pm
"you want john boy to come up with proof of this bullshit? "
You can call my uncle if you would like some home town proof...but he has been a conservative for 75 years and I am sure with you that would nullify everything, including his life experiences.
Sometimes proof is in experience and not in a wikipedia print out...
besides, I don't care if you believe it or not as it doesn't matter...universal health care is on the way to you.. regardless and you will be satisfied with it...I hope they leave my medical savings account alone...or I will have to go the cash system, which hopefully will continue and find another way to offset the tax the govt will hammer me with to pay for yet another govt program I do not want and will not work very well...but you will trade your vote for the "security" of health care....just don't get sick or hurt.
Posted by john maasch at 05/26/2007 @ 12:33pm
.just don't get sick or hurt.
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 05/26/2007 @ 12:33pm | ignore this person
this is good advice for the tens of millions without health insurance in this country, and sadly also for many who DO have health insurance.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/26/2007 @ 12:39pm
"Sort of like his career as a mover and shaker in the business world, yet he can't spell or type correctly, and has unlimited time to post on the blogs of The Nation.
Hmmmmm.
Posted by MADLIB 05/26/2007 @ 12:20pm "
I have a great career and life...I have have choosen wisely..I am not paid by the hour..
Posted by john maasch at 05/26/2007 @ 12:44pm
ATTN: WILLC
Great news for the neo-cons, there is a new treatment for jet lag.
www.newscientist.com/article. ns?id=dn11895&feedId=online-news_rss20 - 36k -
Posted by crabwalk at 05/26/2007 @ 12:46pm
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 05/26/2007 @ 12:33pm
Free mkt at all cost, and I do mean all costs. 28% overhead, that's cool. Rationing, cool, because if the guvt pays for it we will have it worse, we think, maybe.
Guess who will bring us single payer health care? GM, FORD, MICROSOFT, MAL_WART. The Powers That BE will ignore the populace, but when corporate America declares it to be the only way to compete, suddenly we will find a way to make it happen.
Posted by crabwalk at 05/26/2007 @ 12:50pm
Read Fiasco and Emerald City. then get back to us about how well things are going in Iraq. -CRABWALK,,
Rewrite; read Fiasco and the Emerald City, then get back to us about free mkt theory regardless of facts. ChimpCo had a blank slate to work with (minus the centuries long dispute that don't exist in ChimpCo world), he sent the purest of the pure from the repubs and The American Enterprise Institute. See what they made?
Posted by crabwalk at 05/26/2007 @ 12:53pm
.just don't get sick or hurt.
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 05/26/2007 @ 12:33pm | ignore this person
this is good advice for the tens of millions without health insurance in this country, and sadly also for many who DO have health insurance.
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 05/26/2007 @ 12:39pm
what's the beef? Sounds like good advice from the group that brought us an increase in Islamic Terrorism, while fighting Islamic Terrorism worldwide.
Personal responsibility, don't get sick or hurt. Couldn't be simpler.
BTW, John, my wife spent another 1 1/2 hrs dealing with our wonderful free mky carrier. More time was spent by the provider dealing with the free mkt carrier. That is a hidden tax on you and me in wasted overhead.
Posted by crabwalk at 05/26/2007 @ 12:58pm
BTW, John, my wife spent another 1 1/2 hrs dealing with our wonderful free mky carrier. More time was spent by the provider dealing with the free mkt carrier. That is a hidden tax on you and me in wasted overhead.
Posted by CRABWALK 05/26/2007 @ 12:58pm
I don't disagree...the delivery system is the worst..either you and I fill out forms or the doctor hires 6-10 people to fill out govt forms..it is the same...and you pay with cash or time, as today they are the same.
Have you looked into a MSA account? Similar to IRA, $ 300 or so( I forgot what it is, my wife pays the bills) premium, $ 5,000 deductable and full coverage after...no co pay...you spend $5k out of pocket ..if you do not use it, roll it over ...for next year and start over..pre tax, you can borrow , ect....you pay your own doctor out of the account and EVERYTHING COUNTS.. glasses, dentist, drugs, counseling, ect., towards deductable. Builds savings at the same time.
Plus, if you are sharp...cut a deal with your doctors..negoiate everything for cash payment...ask....all they can say is no and you can shop other doctors...
Posted by john maasch at 05/26/2007 @ 1:19pm
"Guess who will bring us single payer health care? GM, FORD, MICROSOFT, MAL_WART. "
Absolutely, when health care costs more than steel in a car...you have a recipe for trouble...and they will "dump" it on the Hillarys of the world who will gladly pick it up in exchange for votes...
The workers do not realize that they pay for their own health premiums in the company...instead of getting more in pay check to buy insurance, the company "covers" them, ie, pays it for them at a discount by buying in bulk...this way, the govt picks up dropped policy and companys pay nothing, not even the partial premium they paid for you in the past, to you. Unions.
Posted by john maasch at 05/26/2007 @ 1:23pm
"Sounds like good advice from the group that brought us an increase in Islamic Terrorism,"
We have increased terrorism because of the terrorists, THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE...they will come to us for a long time and have been for a long time..we are finally responding and you just disagree with the strategy, not the fact we have to respond and go after these fucks and kill them..not sue them in world court.
Posted by john maasch at 05/26/2007 @ 1:27pm
the fact we have to respond and go after these fucks and kill them..not sue them in world court.
this is what is known as a false choice. here is a real choice,
deal with the terrorists the way the first WTC perps were handled OR invade a country that did not attack us just to look tough.
yes Maasch, these are very bad people, as we are very bad people in muslim eyes. the best thing we can do to fight extremism is to further pragmatism.
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/26/2007 @ 1:56pm
This is true, and maybe why the in our country trying to set up a buerocratic mess for 300 million may degrade the sytem so badly as to render it unacceptable...as much as big corportions are poor at customer service.
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 05/26/2007
I think there is something to that; I don't know how efficient a national health system would be. Maybe the states are the ones to handle it, something places like Massachusetts are already doing.
Posted by hhemwm at 05/26/2007 @ 3:56pm
this is what is known as a false choice. here is a real choice,
deal with the terrorists the way the first WTC perps were handled OR invade a country that did not attack us just to look tough.
yes Maasch, these are very bad people, as we are very bad people in muslim eyes. the best thing we can do to fight extremism is to further pragmatism.
Posted by JOHANNESROLF 05/26/2007
Well said.
Posted by hhemwm at 05/26/2007 @ 3:57pm
I think that Mr. Boehner nailed it, and nailed himself, with its utterance: "when are we going to stand up and take them on? When are we going to defeat 'em?". Yes, with his demagogical rhetoric, he might be defining objectives for our stay in Iraq that could boomerang on his own Party. In these kind of situations we need to define, distinguish and quantify. Some questions for him: 1) In year 2006 how many actual Al-Qaeda have been taken in custody or-and eliminated? In the same period, how many Americans have died or been seriously injured? How many civilian Iraqis? Is the price of one Al-Qaeda life worth 10 American lives? Aren't we playing dumb giving overvalue to these terrorists and demanding an undue and excessive sacrifice from our beloved youth? I have an answer: 100 terrorists are not worth one American limb. For our further stay in Iraq we need to define how many terrorist cells/persons are we eliminating and how much sacrifice are they worth. Please define this Mr. Boehner. 2) "Take them on..", there is almost unanimous convergence that Mr. Bin Laden is in Afghanistan-Pakistan, not Irak. So, please define which persons/cells or other are we taking. Is it not true that the first objective in war is to eliminate the enemy's command and control? Well, these are not currently in Irak, what is the task at hand in Irak? 3) "courage to defeat them..." please phrase a definition of an American victory. Are you so limited as to think that America is capable of eliminating 100% Al-Qaeda in Irak? The organization is a cancer and probably has roots and branches all over the Middle East maybe including some European countries. Do your words "we will regret it" assume that a failure to achieve a 100% victory will bring terrorism back to America? If that is the case, he might as well wage war all through the Middle East. 4) Does Mr. Boehner assume that the number of members - and therefore targets - of this organization is constant (not increasing)? What does the military in the field perceive? A strong majority of analysts agree that every day that America stays there, breeds more resentment and recruits to Al-Qaeda and the Shiite organizations. Aren't we playing lousy math here?
Mr. Boehner' speech has linked - and justified -clearly our stay to the elimination of terrorism. The civil war going on there has little to do with terrorist exportation and much to do with power and dominance from one ethnic and religious group to others. It has originated because of the power void created when the Saddam regime was toppled (yes, by America)and it may go back to centuries of enmity and distrust between the three groups there. Still, vast majorities of these groups reject American occupation and just to gain "prestige" and "clout" within the main population ( and bank them for the political future of their side) they will do what they can to eliminate Americans. While they fight between them, they are in a way fighting a sort of an "independence war" against Americans. Are you capable Mr Boehner of understanding these geopolitics? In the final balance Mr Boehner, we are not conquering any significant objective by staying there, besides present and future economic interests, we are loosing by now more precious lives than what we lost on 9-11, and we are creating more resentment towards our nation. This issue is too important to play politics, please answer with objectives and ciphers.
Posted by Jorge T at 05/27/2007 @ 03:12am
The idiot so-called president said, at a press conference, "Alot more Americans are going to die. Expect more deaths. It's going to get worse. It's going to be a temporary spike. Whoa. Lookout. American blood and guts is going to run all over the sand of Iraq - especially August - thats right before the verdict about whether the surged worked or not - August is going to be bloody, probably. Don't say I didnt tell you if Iraq starts getting alot worse."
The idiot also said, "China needs to change their economy from savers to consumers", I re-wound that shhit to make sure, "savers to consumers". "China needs to, change their economy from savers to consumers". Or what? Why do they "need" to do this? Because George Bush says? Then the idiot said, "China needs to buy American beef". Well, beef is a very highly subsidized product, with a high environmental cost, it involves third world style sweat-shop factories on our own soil which process the carcasses, it's highly dependent on illegal immigrant labor. How is China buying beef going to help any Americans other than upper-crust beef producers?
Posted by conshame at 05/27/2007 @ 09:50am
No doubt about it CONSHAME, Chimpy lives in a dream world.
Posted by crabwalk at 05/27/2007 @ 10:02am
A world full of virgin births, flying horseys and simplistic responses to intractable problems.
Posted by crabwalk at 05/27/2007 @ 10:03am
Afghanistan, the actual front on the Taliban and Al Qaeda, the place that should, 4 years on, be stable and rebuilding:
By NOOR KHAN, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 9 minutes ago KANDAHAR, Afghanistan - The Taliban has launched a new operation targeting government and foreign forces in Afghanistan, a spokesman said Sunday, as two policemen died in an ambush in the volatile south.
Purported Taliban spokesman Qari Yousef Ahmadi said the group's leaders announced the beginning of operation "Kamin," or "Ambush."
We have been told the Capitol is safe:
In Kandahar, the Taliban ambushed a police convoy on Saturday, and the ensuing one-hour gun battle killed two policemen and wounded three others, said Shah Wali Kot district chief Obaidullah Khan. He said the Taliban also suffered casualties, but he had no details.
Posted by crabwalk at 05/27/2007 @ 10:08am
What The Idiot should be saying is "Americans need to switch from consumers to savers".
It would help our country and help slow down the Communist juggernaut.
Posted by crabwalk at 05/27/2007 @ 10:11am
Excellent critique of Chimp speech:
http://slate.com/id/2166974
"If you sat through the rest of the (press)conference, which dealt mainly with the war in Iraq, you saw the bedraggled president he has become--defensive, doctrinaire, scattershot, and either deceptive or delusional."
Posted by crabwalk at 05/27/2007 @ 10:17am
Obama spoke at George Wallace Comm College.
That is the power of the liberal agenda.
Evil incarnate. ; )
Posted by crabwalk at 05/27/2007 @ 10:21am
How is China buying beef going to help any Americans other than upper-crust beef producers?
Posted by CONSHAME 05/27/2007 @ 09:50am |
It helps immigration, right? Which helps drive down wages, which helps stockholders. And that is all that matters. Right, HAPPY?
Posted by crabwalk at 05/27/2007 @ 10:23am
Ahh, I love having the soap box to myself.
I feel like chimpy.
"And so, in my State of the -- my State of the Union -- or state -- my speech to the -- nation, whatever you wanna call it, speech to the nation -- I asked Americans to give 4,000 years -- 4,000 hours over the next -- of the rest of your life -- of service to America. That's what I asked. I said 2 -- 4,000 hours."
-- The medicine seems to be wearing off, Bridgeport, Connecticut, Apr. 9, 2002
Posted by crabwalk at 05/27/2007 @ 10:26am
And remember, this week is seat belt awareness week
ranch:
ranch |ran ch | noun a large farm, esp. in the western U.S. and Canada, where cattle or other animals are bred and raised.
anybody see any cattle at "The Ranch"? could it be just a photo op, show for the sheep? NAh, I am sure chimpy is well versed in the ways of ranching.
Laura Logan says Baghdad looks like a wasteland. Meanwhile, chimpy drives around the "ranch", "working hard".
Posted by crabwalk at 05/27/2007 @ 10:35am
Sorry, Lara Logan. Cute, incredibly brave "evil liberal" reporter.
not to be confused with Lara Croft, Bouncy Tomb Raider and dream of chimpy.
Posted by crabwalk at 05/27/2007 @ 10:37am
It helps immigration, right? Which helps drive down wages, which helps stockholders. And that is all that matters. Right, HAPPY?
Posted by CRABWALK 05/27/2007 @ 10:23am
I assume you meant to say illegal immigration!
I have a hunch of all the companies I directly hold stocks in, the total number of illegal immigrants (those without well-forged documents) can fit inside my rental properties. Now, I'll grant you at the lower payscales of these companies, mail room clerk types, illegal immigration almost certainly results in lower pay for these corp. employees. What this end up mean is that yes, in an indirect and small way, illegal imm. help make our larger companies to be more competitive against foreign companies!
Now, where do you suppose the bulk of the illegal imm. work, especially the more recent arrivals? On your block cutting your neighbor',' maybe even your, lawns--my sons or I cut our own lawns and always have--at your neighborhood restaurants washing dishes, at your corner convenience stores, in our homes as maids or nannies, in meat-packing plants, and at most of the construction sites you see..... And, who do you suppose benefit from these imm.'s labor?
While we are on this subject, it seems to me, to address the growing spread between the upper crust and the lower quintile, stopping illegal immigration--even including rounding up a couple of million recent illegals--would lead to very rapid increases of the remaining low-wage workers' paychecks without directly impacting the mid-wage type jobs that are potential offshorable. Remember, most illegals work in service jobs that can't be outsourced. Imagine shipping live hogs to Mexico for butchering!
With the attedent rise in pay at the lower 20%, many of our lesser-skilled citizens will be lifted above poverty level wages. This seem so elementary to me and yet, the Dems are essentially on the worng side, for what? Politics! Certainly not based on economics and helping their most loyal constituents, the Blacks and other legal lower class! Without illegals taking many sub-$10/hour jobs throughout the non-corporate economy, even a McDonald flipper will likely get over $10/hour anywhere!
Hope I'd helped!
Posted by Happy at 05/27/2007 @ 12:33pm
Obama spoke at George Wallace Comm College.
That is the power of the liberal agenda.
Evil incarnate. ; )
Posted by CRABWALK 05/27/2007 @ 10:21am
BTW, on this idiocy. Wallace State Community College is a multi-racial college. Why is it some big blow against "evil incarnate" that Barack Obama attended a school named for Wallace, who died 10 years ago...and APOLOGIZED to civil rights leaders in the 70s (when Obama was in high school, BTW) and, in his last term, he saw a record number of black Alabamians appointed to government positions?!?!?!?
Posted by Mask at 05/28/2007 @ 12:32pm
Why is it some big blow against "evil incarnate" that Barack Obama attended a school named for Wallace
Posted by MASK 05/28/2007 @ 12:32pm
We're not really sure why you're asking the question sugar buns. Obama attended and graduated from both Columbia and Harvard law.
But he never attended (or graduated from) any of the schools named after Wallace
Posted by Will C. at 05/28/2007 @ 1:29pm
What hypocrites.
Back when Clinton had our troops in Somalia, McCain made a speech from the Senate Floor demanding we get our troops out of there immediately because of the "Blackhawk Down" incident. Hey Johnny, how many more have died in this IRAQ SURGE which you support compared to Blackhawk Down?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8TFKXHiefs
Then we find out on Think Progress that (1) Boehner voted to reduce troop timeline in Somalia from one year to six monthsgetting our troops out of Somalia and voted against the funding, (2) Boehner voted to move up the deadline to bring troops home from Somalia and (3) Boehner voted against $1.8 billion in funding for the operation in Somali.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/27/boehner-somalia/
I wonder if Boehner and McCain would be making the same speeches now (including all the tears) if Hillary Clinton was in the White House?
How ironic that ABC did that interview with "Osama been Forgotten" in 1998 IN SOMALIA from 'An Undisclosed Location' known as a Cave. Gee, I wonder if Cheney was there?
Posted by twieliczka at 05/28/2007 @ 3:10pm
Posted by WILL C. 05/28/2007 @ 1:29pm
WILL, going to make your day.....You're right.
Shouldn't have said "attended", should have said "spoke at".
Hooray! Young Wilber wins one against the ONLY thing he ever speaks out against....evil hamster-types.
Maybe someday he'll actually say something dangerously close to a non-response-to-whatever-I-or-JOHN MAASCH-say response and state something he SUPPORTS...not just what he opposes...or who he opposes!
How about Hillary? Explain to the crowd and her naysayers how she's "never strayed from the 'Liberal Agenda'...even when she voted for war in Iraq!"....Hmm?
Posted by Mask at 05/28/2007 @ 3:31pm
Posted by MASK 05/28/2007 @ 3:31pm
oooo... sweety you're really touchy when you're caught screwing up the simplest of things. But then again we truly don't expect much mentally out of you hamsterettes.
What a pity.
Posted by Will C. at 05/28/2007 @ 8:28pm
Posted by WILL C. 05/28/2007 @ 8:28pm
WILL, again what's with the "sweetie"? I'm not a female and I'm not gay, so if you're hitting on me, just letting you know.
As for "screwing up the simplest things"...sure, I'm human.
Now the BIG things, like claiming Hillary was acting on the "liberal agenda" when she voted for war....that's a mistake you carefully steer away from, and DREAD me bringing up because you (being the monumental egotist you are) can't admit you were wrong...and yet you can't DEFEND it on a left-wing blog, by telling these liberals that voting for war in Iraq was part of THEIR agenda.
Of course, as noted, you don't support anything (even the asinine things you say)...you just OPPOSE "hamsters" and hence offer nothing substantive as well as nothing positive for your beliefs (if you actually have any besides "Anti-Hamsterism"...hehe)
Posted by Mask at 05/28/2007 @ 8:44pm
right mask you're not a female
Posted by Will C. at 05/28/2007 @ 8:45pm
tell us another one
Posted by Will C. at 05/28/2007 @ 8:45pm
Today wouldn't be that time of month for you would it sugar buns?
You're awful manic
Posted by Will C. at 05/28/2007 @ 8:48pm
Heard of Bill Frist, the former majority leader in the Senate, wanting to run for World Bank? This is big deal, isn't it?
Posted by Helen DAO at 05/28/2007 @ 10:11pm
Hmmm?....what is it about my posts here at "The Nation"....
creates the image of "female" in WILL's mind about me?!?!?!
Posted by Mask at 05/29/2007 @ 09:25am
Posted by HELEN DAO 05/28/2007 @ 10:11pm
He'd probably get it....Old Boys' Club of the Senate would support him, Dem or Repub.
Posted by Mask at 05/29/2007 @ 09:26am
Frist? notachance. he's already withdrawn from contention. wrong again, eh masky?
Posted by johannesrolf at 05/29/2007 @ 11:31am