DC Marchers Challenge Congress to End War

Actor Sean Penn summed up the new energy -- and the new focus -- of the anti-war movement Saturday, when he turned George Bush's own words against the president.

Just hours after the president had again reasserted his false claim to authority to pursue a war that is not wanted by the American people or the Congress, Penn told anti-war demonstrators gathered in Washington that Bush would be wise to review the Constitution.

"In a democracy," the actor told the cheering crowd, which organizers said numbered in the hundreds of thousands, "we are the deciders."

Saturday's anti-war demostrations, which filled the streets of cities from San Francisco to Washington, marked a return to form for an anti-war movement that had trouble building momentum during the three years that followed Bush's decision to launch a preemptive war against a country that posed no serious threat to the United States or its allies. During the period from 2OO3 to 2OO6, Bush's Republican Party had complete control of the machinery of government, and his allies were successful in assuring that Congress would not serve as any kind of check or balance on the presidency.

Though polls showed that most Americans thought Bush had been wrong to take the country to war, and that they disapproved of his handling of the conflict, demonstrations seemed fruitless because the president held all the cards. Many opponents of the war poured their energies into electoral politics, hoping to restore at least a measure of balance to the federal government by putting opposition Democrats in charge of at least one house of Congress. On November 7, the work paid off, with the election of Democratic majorities in the House and Senate.

So it was that one of the most popular signs at Saturday's rally in Washington read: "I Voted for Peace."

An equally popular sign, distributed by United for Peace and Justice, the group that played a central role in organizing the demonstrations, read: "Congress: Stand Up to Bush!"

Both signs were necessary messages on Saturday because, while there is no question that Americans voted November 7 for peace, there is still a great deal of uncertainty about whether the Congress that was elected will, in fact, tell the president that it is time to bring the troops home.

Some members of Congress do get it. Congressional Progressive Caucus co-chair Lynn Woolsey, D-California, addressed the Washington rally, urging activists to lobby the House on behalf of comprehensive legislation she has sponsored to withdraw Congressional approval for the war and implement a rapid yet orderly withdrawal of U.S. soldiers and civilian contractors from Iraq. The second most senior member of the House, Michigan Democrat John Conyers, was there as well, telling the crowd that: "George Bush has a habit of firing military leaders who tell him the Iraq war is failing," said Conyers, who then looked out at the crowd and shouted: "He can't fire you."

"He can't fire us," added the House Judiciary Committee chair, referencing the Congress that he said should block funding for Bush's plans to maintain his war. "The founders of our country gave our Congress the power of the purse because they envisioned a scenario exactly like we find ourselves in today. Not only is it in our power, it is our obligation to stop Bush."

While Bush and Vice President Cheney continue to peddle the fantasy they have the power to wage war as they choose, Congressman Dennis Kucinich corrected the latest lie from the White House. "It is time for George Bush to understand that Congress is a coequal branch of government," the Ohio Democrat said. "Congress has the power to end this war."

Kucinich is right on both counts. But he might have added a footnote: There are still a lot of representatives and senators who do not fully accept the responsibility that goes with being members of a coequal branch of government. Until they are reminded of that fact by their constituents, a cautious approach to Constitutionally-mandated duties will prevent Congress from ending the war -- or even seriously curtailing it.

Sean Penn's message was, indeed, the appropriate one: Those who marched on Saturday can and should be the deciders in a democracy.

But in order to claim that title from a dubiously-selected president, the people will have to do more than march.

Only by delivering the message that was on their signs -- "Congress: Stand Up to Bush!" -- directly to their elected representatives will the people convince House and Senate majorities to act to end a war that should never have begun.

The lobbying starts Monday. It should not stop until the troops are home -- and until those who sent them into the quagmire are held fully to account.

While ending the war was the first priority for those who marched in Washington, San Francisco and dozens of other cities across the country Saturday, the demand for accountability was high on the agenda.

"This past November the American people sent a resounding signal to Washington, D.C., and the world. We want change. We want this war to end. And how did Bush respond? Twenty-one thousand, five hundred more will risk their lives for his misguided war," declared actor Tim Robbins, as he addressed the tens of thousands who had gathered on the National Mall. "Is impeachment still off the table? Let's get him out of office."

The crowd roared, "Impeach Bush! Impeach Bush. Impeach Bush!"

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John Nichols' new book, THE GENIUS OF IMPEACHMENT: The Founders' Cure for Royalism has been hailed by authors and historians Gore Vidal, Studs Terkel and Howard Zinn for its meticulous research into the intentions of the founders and embraced by activists for its groundbreaking arguments on behalf of presidential accountability. After reviewing recent books on impeachment, Rolling Stone political writer Tim Dickinson, writes in the latest issue of Mother Jones, "John Nichols' nervy, acerbic, passionately argued history-cum-polemic, The Genius of Impeachment, stands apart. It concerns itself far less with the particulars of the legal case against Bush and Cheney, and instead combines a rich examination of the parliamentary roots and past use of the "heroic medicine" that is impeachment with a call for Democratic leaders to 'reclaim and reuse the most vital tool handed to us by the founders for the defense of our most basic liberties.'"

The Genius of Impeachment can be found at independent bookstores and at www.amazon.com

Comments (262)

1. On a blustery winters day....close to 100,000 is a pretty damned good showing.

   Posted by leftofcenter at 01/27/2007 @ 7:52pm

2. Thank you marchers!!

   Posted by lewwelge at 01/27/2007 @ 7:56pm

3. "In a democracy," the actor told the cheering crowd, which organizers said numbered in the hundreds of thousands, "we are the deciders."

   Somebody tell Spicoli that we're a Representative Republic. Maybe Mr. Hand will quit swiping his pizza.

   Posted by Sliver at 01/27/2007 @ 8:19pm

4. Okay, since we're getting technical, I'll quote a little thing called the Declaration of Independence.

   ... to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

   Posted by MyParadigm at 01/27/2007 @ 8:42pm

5. I was unable to attend the DC march today, but will be drafting a letter tomorrow to send to all my Senators and Representatives on Monday, the following Monday, the Monday after that, President's Day Monday, and ad infinitum, until this nonsense has finally been brought to an end.

   Posted by liveeasy at 01/27/2007 @ 9:04pm

6. "On a blustery winters day....close to 100,000 is a pretty damned good showing.

   Posted by LEFTOFCENTER 01/27/2007 @ 7:52pm

   Compared to what? How many did the Viet Nam demonstration get at their peak...when the population was smaller...I applaud the exercising of the right to demonstrate...but even the press can't seem to count heads..20,000-60,000....hundreds of thousands....

   the real problem with the demonstrations today is that over half of the organizations that show up are the same old groups that the middle of America has written off decades ago...this is not a rally of angry Americans as much as it is a rally of far leftists and socialists...and they have been against any and all war before it starts...if there were no Iraq, they then would be rallying about oil companys, capitalism, or enviroment...with the same group of speakers and "stars"...so from the outside watching, it looks like the same old kook faction and the message gets lost in the Ol'Jesse, Glover, Fonda, Moveon, et al crowd.

   The very people you want to reach are ignoring it due to the groups howling.....and the "leaders" the left touts as having swept the repubs out and the people now are speaking ....well, they are no where near this thing...why is that? Are they afraid of being viewed as kooks?...and lose office again?

   Sean, Susan..types don't really have much of an impact beyond their own limosine liberal crowd.

   Posted by john maasch at 01/27/2007 @ 9:05pm

7. "This past November the American people sent a resounding signal to Washington, D.C., and the world. We want change. We want this war to end. And how did Bush respond? '

   The question is how did the new Dems leader respond?....crickets.

   And Tim Robbins yelling IMPEACH!! YEAH, THAT WILL GET THE NATION HOPPING!!!...especially the great middle...

   Posted by john maasch at 01/27/2007 @ 9:09pm

8. Sheetjr,

   You have describe the view of many on the right.

   Posted by john maasch at 01/27/2007 @ 9:26pm

9. "Actor Sean Penn summed up the new energy -- and the new focus -- of the anti-war movement"

   This FIRST sentence , pretty much sums up the credbility and effectivness of this "march" of the deluded moonbats.

   Posted by CPT at 01/27/2007 @ 9:55pm

10. Posted by MYPARADIGM 01/27/2007 @ 8:42pm | ignore this person

    Okay, if you want to get REAL techinical, lets quote that pesky little thing called the Constitution of the United States, which is ACTUALLY the LAW of the LAND.

    ARTICLE II

    Section 1.

    "The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America."

    Section 2.

    "The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States"

    Posted by CPT at 01/27/2007 @ 10:02pm

11. Impeachment may have the unexpected side benefit of keeping Bush & Darth Cheney so busy huddled with their Lawyers that they may order withdrawal of our forces from Iraq as a stalling tactic. It's not a perfect solution, but it will get our troops out of the crosshairs of an unwinnable Civil war.

    Posted by gwats1957 at 01/27/2007 @ 10:11pm

12. Posted by CPT 01/27/2007 @ 9:55pm

    HOLY CRAP! I'm agreeing with CPT.

    Sean Penn?!?!??! And THEN we hear about Lynn Woolsey, John Conyers, and Kucinich?

    Progressive Caucus?!??!?!...that's it?

    I'm sorry...truly sorry...but no Pelosi, no Hoyer, no Emmanuel, no Reid, no Biden, no Schumer, etc., etc. means one thing.....no action done to end this stupid war anytime soon.

    And if this rally was "it" for the year....it isn't likely to change before the NEXT one, NEXT January.

    Again congrats to RIO, CPT and the rest....you got this "Surge"...you may even get the NEXT one too!

    Posted by Mask at 01/27/2007 @ 10:20pm

13. The World Trade Center bombing (1993); Khobar Towers bombing; the Kenyan Embassy bombings; the U.S.S Cole bombing; the attempted millenial bombing in Los Angeles; 911; the attempted bombing of an airliner by the "shoe bomber;" the capture of Jose Padilla, an Al Qaeda operative who was charged with developing a dirty bomb; the Bali bombing, the Madrid Train bombing; the Chechen terrorist attack on a Russian school; terrorist attacks in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia; the bombing of the London subway, the attempt to bomb multiple planes flying over the Atlantic (which was foiled by British authorities) the attempt to fly an airplane into the tallest building in Los Angeles, and Al Qaeda's continued threats to attack us are just some of the many examples that show: 1) the terrorism threat is not exaggerated; 2) it includes Al – Qaeda; and 3) it is a world wide network, since these attacks occurred all over the world.

    This is what constitutes "peace" in the liberal mind.

    Posted by Sliver at 01/27/2007 @ 10:20pm

14. To CTP, Rio Wacko, Muusch and the rest of the Neo-Nuts out there…

    Speaking of 9/11, Shafig bin Laden had front row seats for the attack with none other than George H. W. Bush, you remember him, the smarter-than-a-box-of-rocks George, at the Ritz-Carlton Hotel.

    My guess was Shafig was invited by the Bush family to watch the firework that the two families had planned. After the event, when all planes were grounded, the Saudis were allowed by the Bush crime family to fly around the country to gather their friends and family and head back to the safety of the Middle East, their work here done.

    Within months of the invasion of Afghanistan the Bush/Neo-Nuts were making plans for the BIG prize Iraq. You see, the plan has always been to have a "New Pearl Harbor" to fool the American people into a more conservative mindset, chase the "Bad Guy", you remember, Shafig brother Osama, then finish the bait and switch and attack Iraq and get 150,000 pairs of American boots on top of the second largest bubble of oil in the world.

    Now that that mission has been accomplished, this idiot president plan to stay until Hell freezes over or the Iraq Parliament passes the bill allowing the "BIG OIL" to steal the Iraqi peoples' oil. The real purpose of this administration and the Neo-Nuts that hijacked this country is the oil, the oil, the oil. Why else would they have call it Operation Iraqi Liberation (OIL)? Oh no, that's right, they changed it after it didn't test well even with the Neo-Nuts focus group… thought it would be too obvious.

    No, the people that showed up at the protest have it right. What was it Lincoln was supposed to have said? "You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time" Well, the American people are finished being fooled by this Bush/Neo-Nut administration.

    The only ones that still support this president are either the "some of the people all of the time" types or just out and out traitors to this country. So, Rio Wacko, CTP, Muusch and the rest, which of the two categories best suits you?

    BTW, got bin Laden?

    "If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier - just so long I'm the dictator." December 18, 2000 George Bush

    Posted by COProgressive at 01/27/2007 @ 10:24pm

15. I'm reading a hugely interesting book about Harry Truman, a great example of a nearly extinct species, the principaled liberal.....

    his first-hand account of how decisions were made to deploy forces to Korea are most instructive, especially the almost total lack of consultation with congress ( not necessary, even for a resolution of support) as well as Truman's admission that he would have taken unilateral action in the absense of (amazingly fast) UN action, which only occurred because of a temporary Soviet boycott of the UN security counsel.....What is most striking is that the attack on South korea was viewed as an attack on the UN, and not just by the US government. Of course, this was in 1950, and compare the decisive UN of then to the one that is today still struggling to sanction North Korea for it's recent nuclear test, as well as other flouting of international laws.....

    Of course, the UN, the world and America were different then....Likewise, the democratic party, which is our great loss.....

    Posted by davebarlett at 01/27/2007 @ 10:33pm

16. "What was it Lincoln was supposed to have said? '

    He would have said to the kooks at the rally..

    "You are all under aresst for treason"..

    ...as he did to the Maryland legislature...by then he had suspeneded the Constitution..as Bush has never done and never even came close to doing...

    The size of the demonstration and the the status of the people(stars and govt figureheads) has to be an even bigger disappointment to the terrorists than it is to the Coprogressive types.

    Posted by john maasch at 01/27/2007 @ 10:35pm

17. Mashy, I have to agree with your sentiments on the demonstrations, I really got a laugh when CNN aired footage of a song by Grandmas for peace and a nostalgic appearance by Hanoi Jane herself......

    Hopefully, the troops will see these demonstrations for what they are, simple social events for the Blame-America-First crowd of no real significance....And someone should tell Jane Fonda, you just can't go back.........

    Posted by davebarlett at 01/27/2007 @ 10:44pm

18. I watched some of the circus today. Wanted to see if anybody that mattered (Pelosi, Reid, Hillary, Obama, etc.) would actually show up.

    Nope. Same group of has beens and hangers on that I saw 2-3 years ago (minus the Che shirts).

    I know Woodyee was saying that he was going there to check out the chicks in the crowd. That was disappointing as well. Unless you're into angry, chunky, greasy-haired, man-girls in old army jackets. And you know with that crowd that dear old pops (Professor So and So with the beard and long grey ponytail) is somewhere close by. Making sure that Angry Annie is brushing up on her critical thinking skills. Though I was digging the Palestinian chick that followed the two Union mouthpieces. Would have made the effort to "console" her.

    Now that Democrats have won Congress...why weren't any of them even mentioned?? After all...they were the ones that were elected to bring change, and are the group most likely to stop this war if they wanted to. You can't have a 5-hour high mass on the lawn of the Capitol and not mention those that you trusted with your vote to end the quagmire. Especially when you have some schlep behind the stage with a "9-II was an inside job" sign. MoveOn.org has now officially been redesignated as ComeOn.org.

    What we're witnessing is a political stalemate. Dems don't want to cut funding or sign any legislation to stop the war. Just as they got elected with no specific stated agenda, they're hoping that this cures itself naturally as well. If they cut funding and the end result of our pullout resembles Cambodia, with Hezbollah taking over the oil fields and seizing the ports, they're toast for another 2 decades.

    If Bush wanted to respond politically to save a little face and help his party, he would pull out. Easier to leave than to stay and fight. If Congress wants Bush to pull out, they'd better get it in writing. Dems just don't want that responsibility.

    Posted by Sliver at 01/27/2007 @ 10:46pm

19. Sliver,

    Exactly.

    Posted by john maasch at 01/27/2007 @ 10:51pm

20. Oh, Muusch,

    About Lincoln, he was a Republican, right?

    Kinda like the guy that said this...

    "If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier - just so long I'm the dictator." December 18, 2000 George Bush

    and kinda like the guy that said this...

    "Voters quickly forget what a man says." Richard Nixon (1913-1994)

    Seems to me repuglacans presidents have a very low regard for the American people. Maybe it's because repug presidents are all bought and paid for by big business.

    Posted by COProgressive at 01/27/2007 @ 11:03pm

21. So, Rio Wacko, which is it? Are you one of the "can be fooled all the time" or just a common traitor?

    You realize you are part of the 30% that still supports this fool of a president. That's down there with the Neo-Nut face painters and tinfoil hat wearers.

    Posted by COProgressive at 01/27/2007 @ 11:10pm

22. If Bush wanted to respond politically to save a little face and help his party, he would pull out. Easier to leave than to stay and fight. If Congress wants Bush to pull out, they'd better get it in writing. Dems just don't want that responsibility.

    Posted by SLIVER

    Right. But, since the dems are running in perpetual campaign mode, they don't want to endanger their chances of re-taking the white house in 2008. And, after the 2008 election, it'll be the 2010 election.........No wonder the stock market is doing so well, the market loves a congress that promises everything, and delivers nothing.......

    Posted by davebarlett at 01/27/2007 @ 11:17pm

23. COPROGRESSIVE

    I guess i need to re-post this, since you OBVIOUSLY did not get it the first time.

    This if from the Constitution of the United States, which is ACTUALLY the LAW of the LAND.

    ARTICLE II

    Section 1.

    "The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America."

    Section 2.

    "The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States"

    Posted by CPT at 01/28/2007 @ 12:23am

24. Posted by RIO BRAVO 01/27/2007 @ 11:12pm | ignore this person

    Demoncrats seem bought and paid for by union racketeers, race baiters, environuts, liberal millionaires, and on the whole recieve the majority of their funds from MAJOR CORPORATIONS!

    THE TEXAS FOR PUBLIC JUSTICE FINDINGS:

    The 212 identified Pioneers have raised a minimum of $21.2 million in hard money for Bush's presidential effort. These 212 individuals also contributed; $2.3 million to Bush's gubernatorial campaigns, $7.1 million in hard money to federal candidates and PACs and $4.1 million in soft money contributions to federal political party committees since the '96 election cycle.

    Eighty-four companies controlled by or employing these 212 individuals contributed an additional $21 million in soft money contributions to political party committees since the '96 election cycle, $15.5 million to the Republicans, $5.5 million to the Democrats. Sixty-six of the Pioneers hail from Texas. The other Bush state, Florida, claims the next largest batch with 21. California has produced 14 and Michigan 12. No other state is in the double-digits.

    133 Pioneers are business executives, George Bush appointed 16 Pioneers to state government posts, 14 have spent the night at the Governor's mansion in Austin, 13 represent polluter interests, 35 have benefited from corporate-welfare, 26 have been involved in one or more campaign finance-related scandals, and 20 Pioneers have kept the revolving door between government and industry spinning.

    "The Pioneer network is the embodiment of special interests," said Andrew Wheat, author of the report. "Pioneers give big money to get special favors from government, usually at the expense of the rest of us."

    Just some of the Bush owners:

    Carl H. Lindner Jr. American Financial Group OH $2,632,590 71% to GOP = $1,869,000

    Roland & Dawn E. Arnall Ameriquest Capital CA $1,975,500 51% to GOP = $1,008,000

    Richard T. Farmer Cintas Corp. OH $1,947,371

    Jerry Perenchio Univision Communications/ Chartwell Partners CA $1,359,000 96% to GOP = $1,305,000

    Joseph C. Canizaro Columbus Properties LA $1,016,494

    Sam Fox Harbour Group MO $928,883

    So, Rio Wacko, just who are these Union racketeers, race baiters? OK, about the environmentalist and our America loving honorable millionaires, we have our millionaires too, so what? The vast MAJORITY that funded putting the Dems into the MAJORITY in congress came from individual small contributors who have had enough of this Neo-Nut disaster.

    You haven't answered my question, which is it? Are you one of the "can be fooled all the time" or just a common traitor?

    got bin Laden?

    "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - George W. Bush, August 5, 2004

    When a man tells you what he believes, believe him!

    Posted by COProgressive at 01/28/2007 @ 12:48am

25. Oh, I left out..

    got bin Laden?

    Posted by COProgressive at 01/28/2007 @ 01:31am

26. There is no "Bin Laden" - and no one here can offer any evidence to the contrary.

    Have you actually LOOKED at the person in the fake Bin Laden video?

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape.html

    The FBI declines to confirm its authenticity.

    http://www.physics911.net/kevinbarrett.htm

    Top Bin Laden Expert: The Tapes are Fakes Kevin Barrett

    As a PhD in Islamic and Arabic Studies, I hate to say this, but I'll say it anyway. The events of 9/11 had nothing to do with Islam. The war on terror itself is as phony as the latest "Bin Laden tape."

    Compare the nose of the actor in the video tape with that of Bin Laden:

    http://www.911blimp.net/vid_fakeOsamaVideo.shtml

    This is NOT BIN LADEN.

    Repeat this information often.

    LOOK AT THE VIDEO - IT'S FAKE.

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 05:48am

27. Bush works for the Likud Party. His father, Poppy, did a deal with Likud during the Clinton Administration to ensnare Clinton in a tryst with a Mossad "Swallow" (Monica) in order to ensure GHW's control of the agenda going forward. Poppy did a deal with the devil to bring down an American President using a foreign spy service to do it. This is called a CONSPIRACY. GHW Bush, Cheney and Ken Lay then conspired to create the California Energy Crisis in the year prior to the elections in order to set the stage for the OIL EXPERTS to take the White House in 2000. The Co-Conspirators then set their sites on working together to pull off their agenda, using elements of Poppy's CIA and Likud's Mossad to plan and implement 9/11 - the PNAC proscribed PRETEXT for the acquisition of the resources and territory of the Middle East. One Problem. Israel double-crossed the Bush Cabal and is blackmailing them BIG TIME. Israel controls everything inside the US. They have every single phone wiretapped and have their software running every vital system. Israel actually controls the launch and targeting codes of the entire US Nuclear arsenal.

    Chertoff controls Homeland security on Israel's behalf. He is Mossad.

    Cheney ran the 9/11 operation, and used Mossad operatives to pull it off. Then Israel threatened to expose the Bush Administration's role in it unless Bush and the rest of his cabal did exactly as Israel demands. Bottom line - Israel owns the United States - thanks to GHW Bush.

    None of this is speculation.

    These are facts.

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 05:49am

28. DID MICHAEL CHERTOFF PERSONALLY ORDER THE ATTACK BY DHS ON AN INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST?

    Was Homeland Security Behind Attack On 911 Investigative Journalist Bollyn?

    Christopher Bollyn | September 1 2006

    The "undercover tactical unit" involved in the assault and TASERing of a 9/11 investigative journalist at his Chicago-area home was most likely an operation ordered by the Department of Homeland Security, according to a former high-ranking police official.

    Since the bizarre and brutal attack against me by three heavily-armed agents at my family home in Hoffman Estates , Illinois , a number of people have commented on the seemingly odd use of an "undercover tactical unit" to respond to a non-emergency 911 call.

    Some of the most insightful comments have come from a former senior police official from Illinois , who spoke to a source close to AFP. The former police chief was familiar with the details of the incident when he made his comments.

    In the opinion of the former police chief, the operation appears to have been ordered by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), under the leadership of the Israeli-American dual national Michael Chertoff. Chertoff, who has been the subject of several of my articles about 9/11 and the failure of his department to respond to Hurricane Katrina, is the son of Livia Eisen, one of the first agents of Israel's military intelligence agency, the Mossad.

    http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/September2006/010906Bollyn.htm

    BOLLYN'S ACCOUNT OF THE ATTACK:

    http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/bollynbeaten.htm

    BOLLYN'S ARTICLES ABOUT CHERTOFF AND MOSSAD:

    http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=66175

    http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=91721

    http://www.rense.com/general64/moss.htm

    http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=68463

    http://americanfreepress.net/html/ally_backs_assassination_netwo.html

    http://www.iamthewitness.com/Bollyn-9-11-Controlling-the-Message.html

    CHERTOFF DOES NOT WORK FOR YOU.

    WHY IS HE ATTACKING JOURNALISTS WHO SEEK THE TRUTH OF 9/11?

    To protect Mossad's direct role:

    http://killtown.blogspot.com/2005/11/dancing-israelis-on-911.html

    Christoper Bollyn was just interviewed by CNN:

    http://iamthewitness.com/Bollyn-CNN-interview.html

    EXPOSE THE TRUTH.

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 05:52am

29. http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/01/cheney.halliburton/

    Given what we know about VP Cheney's direct financial ties to Haliburton, isn't it clear that he has committed a fraud against the United States for the purpose of illegal financial gain, in accordance with the following statute? Couldn't the same be said of any US official who knowingly made false statements to advance the cause of war, while owning shares of companies that stood to gain substantially from that war? Cheney was acting specifically on behalf of the Contractor, Haliburton, to ensure no-bid contracts were awarded, based on knowingly fraudulent information generated by his own Office Of Special Plans. It might also be construed that any official who had a relationship to the Carlyle Group was also lying on their behalf - for their own financial benefit.

    Section 1031. Major fraud against the United States

    (a) Whoever knowingly executes, or attempts to execute, any scheme or artifice with the intent - (1) to defraud the United States; or (2) to obtain money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, in any procurement of property or services as a prime contractor with the United States or as a subcontractor or supplier on a contract in which there is a prime contract with the United States, if the value of the contract, subcontract, or any constituent part thereof, for such property or services is $1,000,000 or more shall, subject to the applicability of subsection (c) of this section, be fined not more than $1,000,000, or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.

    (1) the gross loss to the Government or the gross gain to a defendant is $500,000 or greater; or

    (2) the offense involves a conscious or reckless risk of serious personal injury.

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/18/parts/i/chapters/47/se ctions/section_1031.html

    The financial links between those who lied, and those who benefitted as a direct result of the lies (primarily in the oil and military industries) are clear. The evidence that the President's speech knowingly included a lie about the Niger Yellow Cake is proveable in a court of law under oath.

    That the Vice President knew for a fact that the claim was based on a forgery in advance of the President's speech is a given. That he instructed others to ensure that the sentence made it into the speech is also a given. What did the Vice President know, and when did he know it?

    Everytime the Vice President knowingly lied to the American People to advance the cause of war, he committed a crime against the United States which both directly harmed other US citizens and directly enriched himself.

    Indict Dick Cheney for Fraud.

    http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040216fa_fact

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/politics/main575356.shtml

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/20030711-7.html

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/20030714-4.html

    The outing of Valarie Plame falls into precisely the same category, as it was specifically designed to ensure that the lead up to war continued apace...

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/10/20031001-6.html

    Consummate diplomats like Wilson typically do not speak of "lies." So outraged was Wilson, though, that this bogus story had been used to "justify" an unprovoked war, that he made a point to note that the already proven dishonesty begs the question regarding "what else they are lying about."

    It was a double whammy. And, as is now well known, the White House moved swiftly-if clumsily (and apparently illegally)-to retaliate.

    It was clear from the start that Vice President Dick Cheney and Kemosabe (Amer. Indian for "Scotter") Libby, as well as Karl Rove, were taking the lead in this operation to make an object lesson of Wilson and his wife.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/mcgovern10202005.html

    But there is abundant evidence that senior White House officials were aware of the CIA's doubts regarding the Niger story long before the State of the Union. Nearly a year earlier, in February 2002, the CIA had dispatched former Ambassador Joseph Wilson to Niger to investigate the claim about uranium purchases. When the CIA debriefed him in March, his findings were emphatic: As Wilson explained in a New York Times op-ed on July 6, "It did not take long to conclude that it was highly doubtful that any such transaction had ever taken place." CIA Director George Tenet claimed on July 11 that Wilson was sent to Niger by junior nonproliferation experts at the CIA acting "on their own initiative" and that senior administration officials were unaware of his mission. But this is not true. Wilson was told by CIA officials that the mission had been specifically requested by the office of the vice president. Indeed, Dick Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, told Time magazine that Cheney had "asked a question about the implication of the [uranium] report." And, as Wilson tells The New Republic, "When an executive agency is tasked to find something out and it gets an answer, it goes back to the person who requested it." For the White House to suggest that Cheney's office was unaware of the results of Wilson's inquiry strains credulity.

    Moreover, there is strong evidence that the CIA clearly conveyed its doubts about the Niger allegation to the White House on more than one occasion prior to the State of the Union. When Bush wanted to include the claim in an October 7, 2002, speech in Cincinnati, Tenet personally intervened, imploring Condoleezza Rice's National Security Council (NSC) deputy, Stephen Hadley, to cut the allegation from the speech, which he did. The idea that no one involved with the State of the Union was aware of this earlier, emphatic intervention is implausible. And when the latter speech was being written, the CIA again raised questions about the Niger assertion. According to The New York Times, when NSC proliferation staffer Robert G. Joseph called his CIA counterpart, Alan Foley, to ask about including the allegation in the State of the Union, Foley told Joseph the CIA was not confident about the information.

    http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030728&s=editorial072803

    Indict Vice President Cheney. Put him under oath.

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 05:52am

30. WILD CORNERED ANIMAL STAGE IS UPON US.

    The co-conspirators never expected to find themselves in this position.

    WMD were going to be planted in Iraq, but Plame's Brewster Jennings uncovered the plan, and their essential justification for the invasion of Iraq was lost.

    They never shifted to a strategy that included VICTORY in Iraq. They had always intended to instigate the Civil War - but their original plan always relied on the justification of WMD.

    Now they are stuck - implementing a plan that did not account for the absence of a justified pretext for the war.

    Now their backs are to the wall, and they need to bomb Iran soon in order to create yet another distraction.

    They are now desperate for a Pretext - the result of which will surely include investigations, arrests, and hanging for treason - if not war crimes trials at the Hague.

    WILD CORNERED ANIMALS will do ANYTHING to protect their own skins.

    Cheney is plotting a False Flag Terror Attack on US Soil to justify the declaration of Martial Law and the bombing of Iran.

    ARREST DICK CHENEY.

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 05:53am

31. MARTIAL LAW TO BE DECLARED TO COINCIDE WITH NUCLEAR STRIKE ON IRAN:

    If you have yet to figure out that "BIRD FLU" is the FALSE FLAG means by which this DICTATOR will be declaring MARTIAL LAW - it's time to wake up.

    The globalists have now caused three events in recent days where massive bird kills have been discovered. They are doing this ON PURPOSE.

    You have been preconditioned by the GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED PROPAGANDA to believe that bird flu is contagious and deadly.

    In fact, less than 100 people have died of bird flu. There will be no pandemic - only 24/7 FEAR MONGERING designed to keep you off the streets and drive up the stock value of the pharmaceutical company that supposedly makes the antibiotic we will all need - conveniently owned by Rumsfeld.

    Are we all just sheep? Will the Generals put a stop to this madness?

    Made in the USA! Bio-Terrorism, Fear Mongering, and Propaganda... who benefits ?

    This is a man-made virus from a government lab and likely distributed via vaccine. Ask the SEC how much Donald Rumsfeld will profit off Tamiflu? Email: enforcement@sec.gov

    The Bird Flu Hoax: http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/birdflu.htm

    Bush's Fowl Play: http://www.mises.org/story/1960

    NO FEAR! http://educate-yourself.org/mw/message17oct05.shtml

    Also, Lori has extensive articles @ CLG http://www.legitgov.org/flu_oddities.html

    And, Lew Rockwell / Bill Sardi: http://www.lewrockwell.com/sardi/sardi45.html

    Do you know that 'bird flu' was discovered in Vietnam 9 years ago?

    Do you know that barely 100 people have died in the whole world in all that time?

    Do you know that it was the Americans who alerted us to the efficacy of the human antiviral TAMIFLU as a preventative.

    Do you know that TAMIFLU barely alleviates some symptoms of the common flu?

    Do you know that its efficacy against the common flu is questioned by a great part of the scientific community?

    Do you know that against a SUPPOSED mutant virus such as H5N1, TAMIFLU barely alleviates the illness?

    Do you know that to date Avian Flu affects birds only?

    Do you know who markets TAMIFLU?

    ROCHE LABORATORIES. DO you know who bought the patent for TAMIFLU from ROCHE LABORATORIES in 1996?

    GILEAD SCIENCES INC.

    Do you know who was the then president of GILEAD SCIENCES INC. and remains a major shareholder?

    DONALD RUMSFELD, the present Secretary of Defence of the USA.

    By: kagan on December 22, 2006 at 02:34am

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 05:54am

32. ATTENTION WAR PROTESTORS AND DRAFT RESISTORS...

    HERE'S YOU NEW HOME:

    What's going of with a FUCKING CONCENTRATION CAMP in Wyoming? Let's make Cheney the first customer. Read the designations on the photos carefully. Housing for FAMILIES in a forced labor prison camp?

    Swift Luck Greens: http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?tid=297

    http://209.157.64.201/focus/f-bloggers/1607403/posts

    Latitude: 41.92 Longitude: -106.521944

    Civilian Inmate Labor Program: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Inmate_Labor_Program

    Bush's Mysterious 'New Programs' http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/47/17936

    Hanna Coal Basin "RAG Shoshone 1" facility stopped production of 1 million-plus tons of coal per year as of 2001:

    http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:gNcoT3lrnlsJ:www.wma-minelife.com/co al/coalfrm/coaldat.htm+coal+shoshone+1&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4

    Did the government close the mine only to TAKE it for their use? Interview their former CEO and ask him. http://www.fmshrc.gov/decisions/commission/west199934202042004.html

    What is the mine used for? Are they storing nasty stuff there? Is it legal for the Army and DHS to jointly run this facility? What about the Posse Comitatus Act? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

    What about the 15,000 foot military runway? What's that for?

    Read this guy's take: http://tinyurl.com/y48vxo

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 05:55am

33. HOW IS THE WAR IN IRAQ TIED TO 9/11 AND HALLIBURTON'S ASBESTOS LIABILITY?

    ASK DICK FUCKING CHENEY THE QUESTION!

    BUSH ORDERED THE LIE…

    PEOPLE ARE DYING:

    LEVELS OF ASBESTOS

    A statement about discovery of asbestos at higher than safe levels in dust samples from lower Manhattan was changed to state that "samples confirm previous reports that ambient air quality meets OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) standards and consequently is not a cause for public concern."

    Language in an EPA draft stating that asbestos levels in some areas were three times higher than national standards was changed to "slightly above the 1 percent trigger for defining asbestos material."

    This sentence was added to a Sept. 16 news release: "Our tests show that it is safe for New Yorkers to go back to work in New York's financial district." It replaced a statement that initial monitors failed to turn up dangerous samples.

    A warning on the importance of safely handling ground zero cleanup, due to lead and asbestos exposure, was changed to say that some contaminants had been noted downtown but "the general public should be very reassured by initial sampling."

    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0823-03.htm

    COLLEGE STUDENTS DYING FROM INHALED ASBESTOS:

    http://www.bupipedream.com/pipeline_web/display_article.php?id=3259

    ALL SO HALLIBURTON COULD REMOVE THE WTC ASBESTOS LIABILITY FROM ITS BOOKS:

    The WTC was a $15 billion HALLIBURTON liability.

    HALLIBURTON HAD ACQUIRED DRESSER TO SAVE THE BUSH FAMILY FROM THE LOSING POSITION IT WAS STUCK IN…all because of the pending Asbestos law suits:

    GW included the issue in his State of the Union speech in 2005.

    "To make our economy stronger and more competitive, America must reward, not punish, the efforts and dreams of entrepreneurs. Small business is the path of advancement, especially for women and minorities, so we must free small businesses from needless regulation and protect honest job-creators from junk lawsuits. (Applause.) Justice is distorted, and our economy is held back by irresponsible class-actions and frivolous asbestos claims -- and I urge Congress to pass legal reforms this year."

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 05:56am

34. CHENEY, HALLIBURTON, THE BUSH FAMILY, AND ASBESTOS

    Dick Cheney, Halliburton, Inc., and, reportedly, the Bush family are surprisingly well acquainted with asbestos-related concerns.

    On December 18, 2002, CBS News reported that Halliburton "has agreed to pay about $4 billion in cash and stock to settle hundreds of thousands of asbestos claims against it." Reportedly, Halliburton inherited its asbestos liability from Harbison-Walker, a unit of Halliburton's subsidiary Dresser Industries, and from Halliburton's Kellog Brown & Root subsidiary.

    On December 13, 2001, the World Socialist Web Site reported that "During the 2000 election campaign critics noted that in the last several years Cheney and Halliburton had contributed $157,500 to congressional candidates who had co-sponsored legislation to cut off victims' rights to a fair recovery when injured or killed as a result of asbestos exposure."

    And on August 11, 2002, The Olympian (from Olympia, WA), carried a Washington Post article noting that:

    "Dresser had close ties to a family Cheney knew well: the Bushes. Cheney's boss while he served as Secretary of Defense, President George H.W. Bush, was once being groomed to run Dresser, a company that Bush's father and grandfather had reshaped decades earlier.

    When Dresser went public in the 1920s, it turned to W.A. Harriman & Co., whose president was George Herbert Walker, grandfather and namesake to former president Bush. Prescott Bush, the former president's father, helped organize Dresser and select its new president, H. Neil Mallon. Prescott Bush eventually sat on the board and by 1941, still held 1,900 shares of Dresser stock. Mallon was so close to former president Bush that he described him in his autobiography as "surrogate uncle and father-confessor." One of his sons, Neil Mallon Bush, is named after him. After World War II, Mallon employed George H.W. Bush and Dresser executives expected him to take over the company, according to journalist Darwin Payne, who wrote a history of Dresser. Instead, the former president left to prospect for oil.

    While Cheney saw sound business reasons for acquiring Dresser, there was a problem in its past -- the use of asbestos in Harbison-Walker division products."

    GW included the issue in his State of the Union speech in 2005.

    "To make our economy stronger and more competitive, America must reward, not punish, the efforts and dreams of entrepreneurs. Small business is the path of advancement, especially for women and minorities, so we must free small businesses from needless regulation and protect honest job-creators from junk lawsuits. (Applause.) Justice is distorted, and our economy is held back by irresponsible class-actions and frivolous asbestos claims -- and I urge Congress to pass legal reforms this year."

    ASBESTOS AT GROUND ZERO?

    WOW, WHAT A COINCIDENCE!

    WHAT WOULD THE DEMO COST HAVE BEEN TO DISMANTLE THE TOWERS IN ANY OTHER WAY - GIVEN THAT THEY WERE FULL OF ASBESTOS?

    WOW, WHAT A COINCIDENCE!

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7750532340306101329&q=silverste in&hl=en

    WOW, WHAT A COINCIDENCE!

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 05:57am

35. McCain Says Major Financiers Will Back His 2008 Bid

    December 15, 2006

    One of the most prominent on the list of finance committee co-chairmen is the head of the New York Stock Exchange, John Thain. Mr. Thain, whose title is CEO of NYSE Group, Inc., previously served as president and CEO of Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.

    A New Jersey-based investment banker deeply involved in fund-raising efforts for the 2004 Republican convention, Lewis Eisenberg, is signing on with Mr. McCain. Mr. Eisenberg is a former Goldman Sachs partner who served as chairman of the Port Authority board at the time of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

    WHAT A FUCKING COINCIDENCE!

    It was Eisenberg who passed the $15 billion Asbestos Liability represented by the Twin Towers onto Larry Silverstein, the man who confessed publicly to having Building 7 "PULLED" by explosives – despite the fact that no plane struck it:

    Rescuer 2: "Keep your eye on that building, it will be coming down soon." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr5TxKTMRx0

    LISTEN to the firefighters and police: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnbpz9udYus

    Listen to the owner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYaUeGvYYxc

    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0823-03.htm

    COLLEGE STUDENTS DYING FROM INHALED ASBESTOS:

    http://www.bupipedream.com/pipeline_web/display_article.php?id=3259

    ALL SO HALLIBURTON COULD REMOVE THE WTC ASBESTOS LIABILITY FROM ITS BOOKS - HALLIBURTON HAD ACQUIRED DRESSER TO SAVE THE BUSH FAMILY FROM THE LOSING POSITION IT WAS STUCK IN…all because of the pending Asbestos law suits

    Planning days in advance to bring down WTC7 by planting explosives inside it implies only ONE THING...FOREKNOWLEDGE OF THE ATTACK ON 9/11.

    Google: "Dancing Israelis"

    The Zionists did it. McCain is in their employ. Lieberman is absolutely his running mate. Apparently McCain doesn't realize that once they are "installed" in the White House, his own days on planet earth are numbered by dark forces who will not rest until Israel has installed a Zionist as President in YOUR White House.

    Follow the money.

    Google: Greenquest

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 05:58am

36. McCain / Lieberman is being shoveled down your throat - as is this WAR WITHOUT END.

    Watch and listen. What is Joe Lieberman actually up to? What about the role of Michael Chertoff? Why did Bush go so far out of his way to take all of the blame for Chertoff's failures in the Katrina debacle? Had you EVER heard Mr. Bush accept responsibility for ANYTHING prior to that? Coincidence?

    Fox News: Israeli Spy ring

    Fox News, alone of all the media, actually ran the story as a four part broadcast, and put the story up on its web site. Then, without explanation, Fox News erased the story from their web site and have never mentioned it again.

    http://100777.com/node/180

    Now a local FOX affiliate has again provided air time to expose the truth about 9/11:

    http://www.wicz.com/fox40/video.asp?video=%2F12%2D02+Terror%2DConspiracy %2Ewmv

    The Israeli Political Influence in the United States

    It should be noted here that the professional Israeli lobby in America is huge in size and is considered even by our American colleagues to be a very powerful and entirely dominant factor in American politics.

    The American Israel Public Affairs Committee is the largest foreign lobby in Washington and fourth most powerful lobby in the country. Other Israeli groups also include the Anti-Defamation League (from whose national offices, along with the Israel Trade Mission and the many Israeli Consulates, many Mossad agents were working,) the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA) and the Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA).

    For detailed studies of the fabrications of groups like CAMERA and MEMRI, visit:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,773258,00.ht ml This is must reading about MEMRI and its "credibility" http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1869.shtml http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article445.shtml http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article7.shtml http://www.abunimah.org/features/020815memri.html http://electronicintifada.net/features/mediaonmedia/20010821camera.html http://www.abunimah.org/features/000403camera.html http://santacruz.indymedia.org/feature/display/13401/index.php

    WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 05:59am

37. ISRAEL'S ATTACK ON "LIBERTY"

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/margolis12.html

    Why did Israel try to sink a naval vessel of its benefactor and ally? Most likely because 'Liberty's' intercepts flatly contradicted Israel's claim, made at the war's beginning on 5 June, that Egypt had attacked Israel, and that Israel's massive air assault on three Arab nations was in retaliation. In fact, Israel began the war by a devastating, Pearl-Harbor style surprise attack that caught the Arabs in bed and destroyed their entire air forces.

    Israel was also preparing to attack Syria to seize its strategic Golan Heights. Washington warned Israel not to invade Syria, which had remained inactive while Israel fought Egypt. Bamford says Israel's offensive against Syria was abruptly postponed when 'Liberty' appeared off Sinai, then launched once it was knocked out of action. Israel's claim that Syria had attacked it could have been disproved by 'Liberty.'

    MC CAIN'S ROLE IN THE COVERUP:

    Liberty Cover-Up and John McCain's Conscience

    Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) is the "Conscience of the Senate." Nevertheless, he won't come clean about what really happened to the USS Liberty, at the hands of the Israelis.

    One of the Navy bigwigs pushing hard for a sanitized Liberty inquiry was none other than Sen. McCain's father, Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., Commander-in-Chief, Naval Forces Europe. He wanted the investigation done in less than a week. Boston said a "proper inquiry would take at least six months." Admiral McCain also wouldn't permit Admiral Kidd to travel to Israel or to contact any potential Israelis witnesses. In fact, according to Boston, the written affidavits of 60 witnesses from the Liberty itself, who were hospitalized at the time of the restricted Inquiry, were also excluded from the final report and not considered as part of the evidentiary record. Boston is convinced, too, that the Israelis' machine-gunning of the Liberty's lifeboats, while the crew was trying desperately to assist their colleagues that were seriously wounded, was "a war crime."

    http://www.dissidentvoice.org/July2004/Hughes0712.htm

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 06:00am

38. JINSA presents an annual Distinguished Service Award, named in honor of the late-Senator Henry M. "Scoop" Jackson to U.S. government leaders.

    Last year the recipient was General Peter Pace.

    This years recipient is none other the AIPAC Butt Boy and USS Liberty Coverup Specialist, JOHN McCain.

    http://www.dissidentvoice.org/July2004/Hughes0712.htm

    Tuesday December 5th, JINSA is proud to honor Senator John McCain with the 24th annual "Scoop Jackson Distinguished Service Award...sponsored by Rolls Royce.

    DO THE MATH FOLKS!

    http://www.jinsa.org/home/home.html

    McCain / Lieberman is your future.

    DO THE MATH

    Possible McCain-Lieberman Alliance

    Introducing McCain to a packed ball room of pro-Israel business executives, defense contractors, and Washington insiders, was Sen. Joseph Lieberman, fresh from being re-elected as an independent after losing the Democratic Party primary in Connecticut.

    Lieberman's glowing tribute to his Republican colleague did not go unnoticed. "McCain-Lieberman? There's something to that," JINSA board member Morris J. Amitay told the crowd.

    http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/12/6/111221.shtml?s=lh

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 06:00am

39. MC CAIN:

    In an interview with Chris Matthews, John McCain was pressed to explain just where another 100,000 troops are supposed to come from for Iraq:

    "I don't think we need to think of the draft again because I don't think it makes sense in a whole variety of ways. But I guarantee you, if these young people felt that this nation was in a crisis and we asked them to serve, virtually every one of them would stand up because I have the greatest confidence in the young people of America."

    (Transcript at: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15330717/)

    CRISIS?

    WHAT CRISES?

    ARE WE IN A CRISIS, OR ARE YOU FORETELLING ONE?

    JOHN MC CAIN – YOU'VE GOT FOREKNOWLEDGE OF A PENDING ATTACK. EXPOSE IT TO PREVENT IT – OR SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES.

    Is THIS the pending CRISIS?

    http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/104451

    Here is the DRESS REHEARSAL for the sinking of the USS Enterprise:

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-05-17-ship-reef_x.htm

    McCain's Dad covered up Israel's attack on the USS Liberty - is history repeating?

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/margolis12.html

    The stranglehold of AIPAC

    THE ARCHITECTS OF TERROR ARE IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

    WITHOUT TERROR - THEY HAVE NO POWER.

    IT IS THEY WHO ARE ATTACKING US.

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 06:01am

40. BUSH HARBORS TERRORISTS

    Is The Sunday Herald a reputable paper?

    What are we to make of this?

    Sunday Herald - 02 November 2003

    Five Israelis were seen filming as jet liners ploughed into the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001 ...

    Were they part of a massive spy ring which shadowed the 9/11 hijackers and knew that al-Qaeda planned a devastating terrorist attack on the USA?

    Neil Mackay investigates...

    THERE was ruin and terror in Manhattan, but, over the Hudson River in New Jersey, a handful of men were dancing. As the World Trade Centre burned and crumpled, the five men celebrated and filmed the worst atrocity ever committed on American soil as it played out before their eyes.

    Who do you think they were? Palestinians? Saudis? Iraqis, even? Al-Qaeda, surely? Wrong on all counts. They were Israelis - and at least two of them were Israeli intelligence agents, working for Mossad, the equivalent of MI6 or the CIA.

    Their discovery and arrest that morning is a matter of indisputable fact.

    It has always been a long-accepted agreement among allies - such as Britain and America or America and Israel - that neither country will jail a "friendly spy" nor shame the allied country for espionage. Chip Berlet, a senior analyst at Boston's Political Research Associates and an expert in intelligence, says: "It's a backdoor agreement between allies that says that if one of your spies gets caught and didn't do too much harm, he goes home. It goes on all the time. The official reason is always visa violation."

    What we are left with, then, is fact sullied by innuendo. Certainly, it seems, Israel was spying within the borders of the United States and it is equally certain that the targets were Islamic extremists probably linked to September 11. But did Israel know in advance that the Twin Towers would be hit and the world plunged into a war without end; a war which would give Israel the power to strike its enemies almost without limit? That's a conspiracy theory too far, perhaps. But the unpleasant feeling that, in this age of spin and secrets, we do not know the full and unadulterated truth won't go away. Maybe we can guess, but it's for the history books to discover and decide. PNAC is about Zionists.

    The "New Peral Harbor" was their creation...the "pretext"

    Learn.

    http://www.overthrow.com/lsn/news.asp?articleID=6819

    http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/ostrovsky.html

    http://ww1.sundayherald.com/print37707

    http://judicial-inc.biz/uss_liberty.htm

    http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

    http://vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2004/06/141355.php

    http://www.savethemales.ca/

    http://www.serendipity.li/wot/911_a_hoax.htm http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=75266&contras sID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

    http://www.antichristconspiracy.com/HTML%20Pages/ABCNEWS_com_Were_Israel is_Detained_Sept_11_Spies.htm

    http://cryptome.org/dea-il-spy.htm

    http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_ti meline&startpos=200&theme=israel

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20040328/news_mz1e29libert.html

    http://washingtontimes.com/world/20041014-121528-8981r.htm

    The PNAC plan, which is in the process of being implemented to the letter, called for a "New Pearl Harbor" as the essential trigger for its implementation.

    The Signatories to the PNAC plan include most of those who worked within the power positions to direct the activities surrounding 9/11 and the lead up to the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 06:04am

41. BUSH CHENEY HARBOR A TERRORIST IN THE US WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM:

    Where is Kobi Alexander?

    Here is the PsyOps story planted by the CIA regarding Kobi Alexander's "purported" whereabouts...out of sight and out of mind for months - despite a US extradition request.

    Last update - 07:21 15/12/2006 Namibian court orders Alexander's accounts unfrozen By Shirley Yom-Tov

    It almost feels like the Namibian authorities are on the side of Kobi Alexander, the former Comverse Technologies leader who fled American justice after being implicated in securities crime. Since summer, Alexander and his family have been in Windhoek, the capital city, from where he is fighting extradition to the U.S.

    According to the newspaper The Namibian, the Windhoek court agreed to reactivate his two local bank accounts, which were frozen at the beginning of October. That frees up about $17 million in cash. U.S. Alexander petitioned the court this week with an urgent request.

    Judge Elton Hoff of the Namibian High Court ruled yesterday that Standard Bank and Bank Windhoek must allow the Israeli to use his money as he pleases.

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=801628&contrassID= 1&subContrassID=7

    Total Bullshit.

    The guy is wanted in the US on Federal charges, and we are capable of rendering anyone off the street anywhere in the world.

    He's in the US.

    He's in the Witness Protection Program.

    He's a 9/11 co-conspirator being protected by YOUR GOVERNMENT LEADERS.

    His wife and kids might be living in Namibia, but he's not. The money that was purportedly "freed up" was a condition of his coming into the program, to ensure that his wife and kids were well taken care of.

    Here is the truth about his company, COMVERSE:

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.htm

    It was a Mossad front with eavesdropping and wiretapping capabilities on every US citizen - even the White House.

    This enabled total knowledge of all US investigative movements AND enabled blackmail of every Congressman and Senator. The same technology was used to wiretap Clinton and Lewinski having phone sex - all of which led Clinton to back down relative to restrictions he had imposed on Israel.

    ALEXANDER WAS A CO-CONSPIRATOR WITH GHW BUSH TO BRING DOWN THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION AND IMPLEMENT THE 9/11 PNAC PROGRAM

    WHERE IS KOBI ALEXANDER?

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 06:07am

42. "Every conversation monitored under Bush's warrantless domestic surveillance program is a missed opportunity to get someone who is talking with terrorists off the streets and behind bars.

    Why? Because evidence obtained by Bush's warrantless domestic spying program is probably not admissible in court. Convictions obtained with evidence from this program may be overturned."

    STOP RIGHT THERE! THINK.

    Clearly the Bush Administration knew that to be true. So what EVIDENCE do you have that Bush actually wants potential terrorists prosecuted? How many terrorists have been CONVICTED AND SENTENCED since 9/11?

    Do the math folks. Think like a criminal. The clearest explanation is often right under your nose. False flag terrorism is a TACTIC of the Mossad and the CIA. The terrorists are merely doing the bidding of this administration and their surrogates. Any actual TRIAL with TV CAMERAS and EVIDENCE would blow their entire operation.

    If they really want to arrest AND CONVICT terrorists, they would absolutely follow the letter of the law. They CHOSE not to. Coincidence? NOT!

    What more do you need to know?

    http://www.countercurrents.org/usa-hassan050405.htm

    Let's start out with a recap of some highly disturbing events in this country, as reported by a mainstream newspaper on the United States in August of 2005:

    http://www.timesherald.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15114089&BRD=1672&PAG=46 1&dept_id=33380&rfi=6

    Now can you help me out with a plausible explanation for this:

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.htm

    And this official DEA report:

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/deareportisraelispying.html

    THE "REAL TERRORISTS" ARE IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND IN ISRAEL

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 06:09am

43. JOHN NICHOLS - AMERICAN HERO!

    DISTRIBUTE FAR AND WIDE:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHfMneQKdDM

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 06:20am

44. To understand the entire 9/11 Middle East War conspiracy in context - go here:

    http://plungerspeaks.blogspot.com/

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 06:28am

45. Creating your own enemies:

    Israel CREATED Hamas. Israel ensured the Hamas political victory. Israel also installed the present leader of Iran.

    The US CREATED Al Qaeda. The US and Israel conspired to pull off 9/11.

    These are mere PRETEXTS.

    Leave your morality aside and think like a globalist whose goals include depopulation. The value of human life is ZERO. If you can't put yourself in that frame of mind, you will never comprehand the game being played at your expense.

    Take off the blinders. Think like a morally bankrupt (ends justify the means) megalomaniac whose power and control over world events and perceptions is absolute. Only then can you begin to comprehend how meaningless your vote is.

    When you invent your own (weaker) enemies, and create the context with which to justify actions against the countries in which they (apparently) operate, it "justifies" sanctions and/or military action against that state.

    All of this noise about "countries who harbor terrorists" is just that, noise.

    There are no "terrorists" that were not created by either Israel of the United States for the sole purpose of justifying the acquisition of territory and resources, and the genocide of the people who reside atop "our oil."

    Nothing is as it appears. Nothing.

    Whatever you are told is true, assume the opposite to be true.

    Stop obsessing on "politicians" and start looking at the REAL POWER STRUCTURE. Identify the players and their operatives by name and expose their actions.

    9/11 is but one of their actions.

    Stop mentioning Bin Laden in connection with 9/11. He had nothing to do with it. The FBI agrees.

    Next comes the nuking of Iran with "tactical nukes" and the imposition of Martial Law in the United States (aided by a conveniently timed avian flu pandemic, the remedy for which is of course a vaccine that the globalists will all profit from - and the advice to avoid crowds - of demonstrators).

    If you fail to comply, the KBR-built Concentration Camps (800 of them) are ready for your occupancy:

    http://tinyurl.com/y48vxo

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 06:42am

46. Many, if not most, of the people that read and comment on this are probably too young to remember the actual event. Those of us who do, especially those living in Texas, find this as no surprise.

    The three hobos, the shooter on the grassy knoll, LBJ's ranch hand and BBQ chef, that was a crack former Marine Corps sniper and who suddenly disappeared right after JFK's death, the phony autopsy -- none of that was every properly investigated, or if it was, the investigation was a cover-up, all point to a conspiracy.

    The last chance at finding out the truth of what the Warren Commision covered up, Gerald Ford, just died. What he knew went with him, but the role of the CIA spoke at Ford's funeral when Bush the Elder speaking just like an arsonist that has to go back to the fire, could not keep his mouth shut and had to mention the Warren Commission cover-up.

    Kennedy was trying to get us out of Vietnam, in fact just before his death had given orders to start withdrawing our "advisors." Before JFK was even in the grave LBJ had remanded that order and ordered additional troops to Vietnam.

    The prime contractor for all of the construction and other services in Vietnam was who? Brown & Root through a JV with Morrison Knudson, known as MK-BRJ -- Morrison Knudson - Brown & Root Johnson -- with Johnson being Lady Bird Johnson. LBJ made a fortune off of the Vietnam war.

    So, who is Brown & Root today?

    KBR is the combination of Kellog and Brown & Root, and KBR is owned by Halliburton.

    And the beat goes on . . .

    Listen to Hunt -- he knows -- he was a shooter and he knows that LBJ authorized the hit.

    Halliburton has in fact built Civialian forced labor prison camps in the United States. This is one of 800:

    http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?tid=297

    These are the actual GPS coordinates of its location:

    Latitude: 41.92 Longitude: -106.521944

    This is the Program:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Inmate_Labor_Program

    The Army Corps of Engineers awarded Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg Brown & Root a $385 million contract to construct detention centers somewhere in the United States, to deal with "an emergency influx of immigrants into the US, or to support the rapid development of new programs," KBR said. [Market Watch, Jan. 26, 2006]

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 06:46am

47. It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots of the dancing Israeli Mossad agents

    "Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information."

    US official quoted in Carl Cameron's Fox News report.

    In fact, he said, the nature of the investigation changed after the names of two of the five Israelis showed up on a CIA-FBI database of foreign intelligence operatives, he said. At that point, he said, the bureau took control of the investigation and launched a Foreign Counterintelligence Investigation, or FCI.

    FBI investigations into possible links to the September 11 attacks are usually carried by the bureau's counterterrorism division, not its counterintelligence division.

    "An FCI means not only that it was serious but also that it was handled at a very high level and very tightly," the former official said. That view was echoed by several former FBI officials interviewed.

    According to ABCNEWS sources, Israeli and U.S. government officials worked out a deal -- and after 71 days, the five Israelis were taken out of jail, put on a plane, and deported back home.

    The men all underwent at least two polygraph tests each, the lawyer added. He said one of the Israelis took the test seven times, a very unusual total according to several polygraph experts interviewed by the Forward. All failed their tests.

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html

    http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/Artstudents.htm

    http://killtown.blogspot.com/2005/11/dancing-israelis-on-911.html

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 06:47am

48. http://www.ichblog.eu/content/view/32/1/

    Attack On The Golden Mosque; truth or psy-ops?

    The Bush administration is very serious about controlling information. That's why they launched the Pentagon's Dept of Strategic Information. The military is now deeply engaged in "full spectrum dominance" of all information technologies.

    Consequently, "controlling the narrative" is more important than one might think. Propaganda is the cheapest and most effective way to control public behavior. The growth in public relations illustrates the importance that political leaders put on managing perception in a way that compels the masses to conform to an elite agenda. That's why the administration has spent zillions on PR campaigns and inserted themselves into every area of human communication. They are forever looking for the right combination of patriotic and religious imagery that will get the public to march along in harmony.

    The Bush administration has made some notable contributions to the traditional propaganda-paradigm. In fact, former Counselor at the State Dept, Philip Zelikow, (who was also executive director of the 9-11 Commission and author of the National Security Strategy NSS) is an expert in "the creation and maintenance of ‘public myths' or ‘public presumptions', which he defines as beliefs thought to be true although not necessarily known to be true with certainty, shared in common with the relevant political community (sounds like Rumsfeld)….He has taken a special interest in ‘searing' or ‘molding' events that take on ‘transcendent' importance and, therefore, retain there power even as the experiencing generation passes from the scene". ("Thinking about Political History" Miller Center report; winter 1999)

    "Searing' or ‘molding' events that take on ‘transcendent' importance"?!? Like 9-11, for example?

    "In the Nov-Dec 1998 issue of Foreign Affairs he co-authored an article called ‘Catastrophic Terrorism' in which he speculated that if the 1993 bombing of the World Trade center had succeeded ‘the resulting horror and chaos would have exceeded our ability to describe it. Such an act of catastrophic terrorism would be a watershed event in American history. ‘It could involve loss of life and property unprecedented in peacetime and undermine America's fundamental sense of security, as did the Soviet bomb test in 1949. The US might respond with draconian measures scaling back civil liberties, allowing wider surveillance of citizens, detention of suspects and use of deadly force. More violence could follow, either future terrorist attacks or US counterattacks. Belatedly, Americans would judge their leaders negligent for not addressing terrorism more urgently". (Wikipedia)

    The previous paragraph is certainly worth rereading 2 or 3 times KEEPING IN MIND THAT ZELIKOW'S ARTICLE WAS WRITTEN IN 1998!?! 3 YEARS BEFORE 9-11!

    Where, one might ask, did Zelikow get his crystal ball?

    Zelikow correctly assumed that if a "catastrophic" event were to take place in America, it would trigger a massive revaluation of all our ideological commitments; "civil liberties, surveillance of citizens, detention of suspects and use of deadly force".

    History would be divided into "pre 9-11 and post 9-11." And, all the restrictions on presidential power, inalienable rights, and aggressive war could be swept away in an instant.

    Isn't this the exact blueprint for what is taking place right now? What part of Zelikow's dark-vision has not been actualized?

    This theory is the intellectual foundation for the creeping fascism that has infected our country. Its evil-brilliance is that it goes beyond propaganda's limited ability to shape public opinion and actually creates history by fabricating events that have a "searing" or "molding" effect on the collective psyche.

    Zelikow has figured out that the real essence of controlling behavior is not simply "propagating" ideas but understanding how humans process information and, then, corrupting that process so it meets the objectives of the ruling elite.

    Both 9-11 and the blowing up of the Golden dome Mosque are examples of how this theory works. 9-11 has been used to erase 200 years of legal precedent and establish a "unitary president" who has absolute power. The destruction of the mosque transforms a brutal colonial occupation into a "humanitarian intervention" which requires the US military to stay on indefinitely to prevent Iraqis from killing each other. In both cases, the "catastrophic" event creates the internal logic for the subsequent response.

    Doesn't this explain why the administration has devoted so much energy to controlling the narrative?

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 06:54am

49. The Executive Director of the 9/11 Commission states the following:

    "Why would Iraq attack America or use nuclear weapons against us? I'll tell you what I think the real threat (is) and actually has been since 1990 -- it's the threat against Israel," Zelikow told a crowd at the University of Virginia on Sep. 10, 2002, speaking on a panel of foreign policy experts assessing the impact of 9/11 and the future of the war on the al-Qaeda terrorist organization.

    "And this is the threat that dare not speak its name, because the Europeans don't care deeply about that threat, I will tell you frankly. And the American government doesn't want to lean too hard on it rhetorically, because it is not a popular sell," said Zelikow.

    The statements are the first to surface from a source closely linked to the Bush administration acknowledging that the war, which has so far cost the lives of nearly 600 U.S. troops and thousands of Iraqis, was motivated by Washington's desire to defend the Jewish state.

    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0329-11.htm

    Philip D. Zelikow is Executive Director of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, otherwise known as the 9-11 Commission.

    There's a raft of evidence to suggest that Zelikow has personal, professional and political reasons not to see the commission hold Rice and other Bush officials accountable for pre-9/11 failings, and may be the de facto swing vote for Republicans on the panel.[1] http://antiwar.com/sperry/?articleid=2209 Here are just a few of them:

    * He and Rice worked closely together in the first Bush White House as aides to former National Security Adviser Brent Scowcroft. Zelikow was director of European security affairs, and Rice was senior director of Soviet and East European affairs, as well as special assistant to the president. Rice reportedly hired Zelikow. Both started in 1989 and left in 1991.

    * A few years after leaving the White House, Zelikow and Rice wrote a book together called, "Germany Unified and Europe Transformed: A Study in Statecraft."

    * The two associated again when Zelikow directed the Aspen Strategy Group [2] http://www.aspeninstitute.org , a foreign-policy strategy body co-chaired by Rice's mentor Scowcroft. Rice, along with Dick Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz, were members.

    ∑ Zelikow also directed the Markle Foundation's Task Force on National Security in the Information Age [3] http://www.markletaskforce.org

    under co-chairman James Barksdale, a Bush adviser and major Bush-Cheney donor. A 9/11 commissioner, Republican Sen. Slade Gorton, also served with Zelikow on the task force. (Interestingly, the pair serves together on yet another panel - The National Commission on Federal Election Reform - with Gorton acting as vice-chairman and Zelikow as executive director.)

    * After the 2000 election, Zelikow and Rice were reunited when George W. Bush named him to his transition team for the National Security Council. Rice reportedly asked Zelikow to help organize the NSC under the Scowcroft model, which was insular and steeped in Cold War worldview.

    * Former White House terrorism czar Richard Clarke says he briefed not only Rice and Hadley, but also Zelikow about the growing al-Qaida threat during the transition period. Zelikow sat in on the briefings, he says.

    * A month after the 9/11 al-Qaida attacks, President Bush appointed Zelikow to the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, which is chaired by Scowcroft.

    * Zelikow's regular job, the one he'll return to after the commission releases it final report in late July, is director of the Miller Center of Public Affairs at the University of Virginia. The center is dedicated to the study of the presidency, and maintains contact with the Bush White House, which fought the creation of the commission.

    Kristen Breitweiser, a 9/11 widow, insists Zelikow has a "clear conflict of interest." And she suspects he is in touch with Bush's political adviser, Rove, which she says would explain why the White House granted him, along with just one other commission official, the greatest access to the intelligence briefing Bush got a month before the 9/11 suicide hijackings.

    Phillip David Zelikow was appointed to the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board (PFIAB) on October 8, 2001, by President George Walker Bush.

    Zelikow (http://www.virginia.edu/topnews/releases2001/zelikow-oct-8-2001.html) has served as Director of the University of Virginia's Miller Center of Public Affairs since 1998. He is also White Burkett Miller Professor of History. He was director for European security affairs at the National Security Council from 1989 to 1991. In this position, Zelikow advised current PFIAB Chairman Brent Scowcroft and President George Herbert Walker Bush "on European issues, including the unification of Germany and the multinational coalition against Iraq."[4]

    http://www.virginia.edu/topnews/releases2001/zelikow-oct-8-2001.html

    "After serving in government with the Navy, the State Department, and the National Security Council, he taught at Harvard before assuming his present post in Virginia to direct the nation's largest research center on the American presidency. He was a member (2001-2003) of the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board and served as executive director of the National Commission on Federal Election Reform, chaired by former Presidents Jimmy Carter and Gerald R. Ford, as well as the executive director of the Markle Foundation Task Force on National Security in the Information Age.

    "Zelikow's books include The Kennedy Tapes (with Ernest May), Germany Unified and Europe Transformed (with Condoleezza Rice), and the rewritten Essence of Decision (with Graham Allison). Zelikow has also been the director of the Aspen Strategy Group, a policy program of the Aspen Institute."

    He is also a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.[5]

    http://www.americanpresident.org/action/about/philipzelikowbio.article.s html

    According to Melvin Goodman, Zelikow "headed a case study project at Harvard and took hundreds of thousands of dollars from the CIA. He used CIA documentation and produced case studies that exonerated the CIA from any charges of politicization of intelligence, particularly with regard to the Soviet Union." [6]

    http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Philip_D._Zelikow

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 06:55am

50. When you view any video of the plane striking the second WTC Tower, isn't it astounding how huge the fireball is that results? How much jet fuel was that…really?

    Remember the big Boeing Tanker lease scandal that arose just prior to 9/11?

    Dov Zakheim, called for "some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor" being necessary to foster the frame of mind needed for the American public to support a war in the Middle East that would politically and culturally reshape the region. A respected and established voice in the intelligence community, his views were eagerly accepted, and Dov went from his position at Systems Planning Corporation to become the Comptroller of the Pentagon in May 2001. Perhaps not so coincidentally, it was an SPC subsidiary, TRIDATA CORPORATION, that oversaw the investigation after the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center in 1993.

    SPC, according to their official website, specializes in many areas of defense technology production and manufacture, including a system developed by their Radar Physics Group called the Flight Termination System, or FTS. This is a system used to destroy target drones (craft that would be fired on by test aircraft or weaponry) in the event of malfunction or "misses". This highly sophisticated war-game technology allows the control of several 'drones' from a remote location, on varying frequencies, and has a range of several hundred miles. This technology can be used on many different types of aircraft, including large passenger jets.

    According to the SPC website, a recent customer at that time was Eglin AFB, located in Florida. Eglin is very near another Air Force base in Florida-MacDill AFB, where Dov Zakheim contracted to send at least 32 Boeing 767 aircraft, as part of the Boeing /Pentagon tanker lease agreement.

    The Boeing lease deal involved the replacement of the aging KC-135 tanker fleet with these smaller, more efficient Boeing 767s that were to be leased by Dov Zakheim's group. The planes were to be refitted with refueling equipment, including lines and nozzle assemblies.

    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2775

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 06:56am

51. Missing Trillions Rumsfeld Buries Admission of Missing 2+ Trillion Dollars in 9/10/01 Press Conference

    On September 10, 2001, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld held a press conference to disclose that over $2,000,000,000,000 in Pentagon funds could not be accounted for. Rumsfeld stated: "According to some estimates we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions."

    Such a disclosure normally would have sparked a huge scandal. However, the commencement of the attack on New York City and Washington in the morning would assure that the story remained buried. To the trillions already missing from the coffers, an obedient Congress terrorized by anthrax attacks would add billions more in appropriations to fight the "War on Terror."

    The Comptroller of the Pentagon at the time of the attack was Dov Zakheim, who was appointed in May of 2001. Before becoming the Pentagon's money-manager, he was an executive at System Planning Corporation, a defense contractor specializing in electronic warfare technologies including remote-controlled aircraft systems. Zakheim is a member of the Project for a New American Century and participated in the creation of its 2000 position paper Rebuilding America's Defenses which called for "a New Pearl Harbor."

    http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/trillions.html

    Dov Zakheim stole $2 TRILLION from you.

    His company (Sysplan) made the technology (Flight Termination System) that was utilized on 9/11 to guide planes to their targets.

    Flight 77 was shadowed (within just a few feet) on 9/11 enroute to the Pentagon by a Raytheon A-3 Skywarrior powered by a Thiokol motor and equipped with bombs.

    When you see the new video of the Pentagon attack - the white smoke is from the Thiokol motor of the A-3. NO 757 hit the Pentagon. Period.

    AA flight 77 crashed short of the Pentagon in Virginia and was quietly cleaned up. The A-3 continued the mission and THAT is what you see slamming into the Pentagon.

    Nearly EVERYONE in the Pentagon and the White House and the Congress know this to be true.

    They all know that 9/11 was an inside job.

    All of them.

    So does the media.

    THIS EXPLAINS IT.

    The type of aircraft and engines used to attack the Pentagon.

    This shows the Raytheon connection to 9/11.

    THE ANSWER:

    http://www.rense.com/general70/safe.htm

    It was this collaborative approach that led Jon and I to conclude that no 757 hit the Pentagon so we looked for alternatives. The only plane that made sense was either a 737 or an A3 Skywarrior, both of which can use the same types of jet engines up to a point.

    The wing span of most 737 jets fall into the range of between 93.0 ft and 112.6 ft which is still 19 feet to 38 feet of wing that cannot be accounted for in impacting the face of the Pentagon before it mysteriously disappeared. When the absence of surface impacts and the size of a 737 including height of the tail are weighed, it is probable that a smaller plane was used to affect the attack on the Pentagon.

    I defy anyone to find an A3 Skywarrior in the hands of any Arab terrorist on 9-11 or any other day. There are only three sources of those jets: 1.) a few (3 to 6) remaining in USAF inventory; or 2.) Davis Monthan AFB where many jets are stored due to lack of humidity; or 3.) the fleet of 12-15 once owned by Hughes and now controlled by Raytheon after that corporation acquired Hughes.

    Jon Carlson and I are convinced that the plane used to attack the Pentagon is an old USAF / Navy plane designated as the A3 Skywarrior.

    The wingspan of an A3 is 74 feet and in the Navy version the wings were designed to fold up for storage on an aircraft carrier (visible on the drawing above). At a distance, painted like an American Airlines plane, this plane would easily be mistaken for a 737, 757, 767 type of aircraft because the two engines hang under the wing but are of far smaller dimensions than the 9 foot diameter jets on a 757 that not only hang under the wing but also hang lower than the bottom of the fuselage.

    That is an important point because there were no marks on the Pentagon lawn of those two jet engines dragging the ground and they would have based on how low the Pentagon was hit. Said another way, forget about the fuselage dragging on the ground. The engines of a 757 would have been plowing the Pentagon lawn but that did not happen.

    The wingspan of a 757 is 124 feet 10 inches. The width of the overall opening, even what is visible as possible wing marks slamming into the face of the building is closer to 74 feet than it is 124 feet 10 inches. In short, there is 50 feet missing to substantiate the Official Lie put out by Washington, DC as to what hit the Pentagon. Said another way, there is 25 feet on each side of the centerline of the strike point (that 14-16 foot hole left in the side of the Pentagon) that left no evidence of a wider wing span 757 hitting the building.

    They also cannot (or more appropriately will not) explain what happened to the two 9 foot diameter engines that mysteriously disappeared. Some official government sources claim that the fire was so hot it melted the engines to nothing, yet they claim they found DNA of the passengers. That math does not compute, or the science either.

    I remember the first conversation I had with Karen Kwiatkowski, a retired Lieutenant Colonel who was in the Pentagon that day. She is the lady that went public about the Office of Special Plans where they were falsifying the intelligence regarding Iraq. She vividly remembers being downstairs and around the corner in about 10 minutes to help get people out and the FBI agents were at the CITGO station confiscating the video tapes of what hit the Pentagon.

    Other eyewitnesses have stated that they smelled explosives such as cordite, not burning jet fuel. Those were military witnesses that know that exploded ordnance smells like.

    What little video evidence there is does show a white trail of smoke before the Pentagon explosion. Jet fuel burns dark at sea level and jets do not leave white contrails at sea level. What does leave a white trail of smoke at all elevations is the solid fuel of a rocket, Thiokol in most rockets being the type of solid fuel.

    According to the US Government's own website which is specifically designed to debunk conspiracy theories:

    http://usinfo.state.gov/media/Archive/2005/Jun/28-581634.html...

    With regard to the World Trade Center attacks, Mr. Meyssan ignores or dismisses the facts that:

    "THE GOVERNMENT DECLARES):

    "Boeing commercial aircraft can not be remotely controlled"

    This assertion is false.

    Dov Zakheim was the Pentagon's comptroller and CFO during 9/11. Over $3 trillion is unaccounted for during his tenure. He was (is?) Corporate VP at System Planning Corporation, a major player in the "Homeland Security" industry. One of the products that SysPlan sells is the Command Transmitter System, a remote control system for planes, boats, missiles and other vehicles . It's highly customable and configurable to interface with an almost limitless number of vehicle types.

    The CTS is a tunable UHF FM transmitter designed for ground use in controlling guided missiles, pilotless aircraft and pilotless boats.

    Many takeoff and lending tests were performed using this system on a commercial size Boeing aircraft under the supervision of Raytheon in the days prior to 9/11.

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 06:57am

52. http://judicial-inc.biz/Dov_zakheim.htm

    Deciphering Dov Zakheim

    Of all the Zionists in Washington - Zakheim is considered the King

    Zakheim, who is a dual Israeli/American citizen and a Shul Rabbi, has stalked the halls of US government for 25 yrs. He has set defense policy which influenced Presidents Reagan, Clinton and Bush Sr. and Jr. This rabid Zionist was the controller of the Pentagon when an audit discovered over a trillion dollars was missing.

    Most of Israel's armament was obtained thanks to him. Squads of US F-16 and F-15 were classified as military surplus and sold to Israel at a fraction of their value.

    Israel, a country of 4.8 million Russian and Polish Jews sits on one of the largest Air Forces in the world.

    Grandfather Was Born In 1870

    Julius Zakheim (Zhabinka), born in the Ukraine, was a Russian rabbi who married a relative of Karl Marx. He was a Menshevik/Bolshevik and played a leading role in the 1905 turmoil that paved the way for the 1917 Bolshevik Revolution.

    The Bolshevik master plan called for state of Israel. Israel was chosen for it's location to the world's oil and the aura of the religious significance.

    Father ...Rabbi Jacob I. Zakheim Born 1910

    The Father was born and reared in Poland's hotbed of Zionist assassins and bombers. He was from a Polish town near Bialystok - same as Yitzhak Shamir. The family numbered Menachem Begin and Moshe Arens as friends.

    Dov's father was an active member of Betar.

    Betar was formed in 1923 Riga, Latvia, and it's goal was control of the Mideast (and it's oil). Jabotinsky knew the Jews needed their own country and they chose Palestine and claimed it as a Jewish state "on both sides of the Jordan."

    T H I S

    M A N

    W A S

    P U T

    I N

    C H A R G E

    O F

    T H E

    E N T I R E

    P E N T A G O N

    B U D G E T

    B Y

    R U M S F E L D

    F O R

    I S R A E L

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 06:59am

53. Raytheon and 9/11

    The planning was conceived in pitiless detail by social engineers. In the 1960s, Abt Associates - a consulting firm founded by Clark C. Abt, a German who migrated to the U.S. in 1937, earned a degree at MIT and joined Raytheon after the war - assisted the Pentagon and CIA with Project Camelot, a computer model for destabilizing foreign governments.

    Socialist scholar Guerry Hoddersen writes that Abt Associates "developed a simulation game called Politica that drew information from a computer linking the files of the CIA, the Defense Intelligence Agency and the State Department. Politica was used in training Third World police" and predicting "which social forces could be mobilized against leftist governments.

    And now they have used it against US.

    Raytheon, maker of Patriot and Tomahawk missiles, watched its stock take off after the 911 attacks.

    Purchases of call options contracts on Raytheon stock increased sixfold on September 10, 2001.

    Purchases of call options contracts on Raytheon stock increased sixfold on September 10, 2001.

    Purchases of call options contracts on Raytheon stock increased sixfold on September 10, 2001.

    http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_842.shtml

    The Raytheon option contracts made money, if shares were more than $25 each. The price zoomed up nearly 37 percent to $34.04 during the first week after post 9/11 trading.

    Parenthetically, Raytheon had also been hit with millions of dollars in fines for padding costs of equipment it sold to the US military. Raytheon also has a hush-hush subsidiary, E-Systems, whose clients include the CIA and NSA, the latter about to make a hostile takeover of the other.

    CLEARLY, Bets were placed in advance of 9/11 with foreknowledge of 9/11. This isn't just War Profiteering, this is TERROR PROFITEERING.

    Raytheon had a DIRECT role in 9/11.

    http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/raytheon-connection-to-9-11

    Americans (too many) do not know that Raytheon executives were killed on 9-11, or at least wound up permanently missing, which may be a more accurate way of saying it. It is who wound up missing that is most interesting.

    This is an excerpt of the email we received and is information that we knew as of the issuance of the flight manifests for all four of the planes allegedly involved in 9-11:

    Subject: Raytheon and 9/11

    OK, I'm not gonna say anything here, except to let you read the evidence and then you can tell me what you think. (These are people who supposedly died on 9/11.) Mike

    Raytheon and 9/11

    2001-09-11 Stanley Hall Raytheon Director of Electronic warfare program management. Raytheon did the retrofit of the A-3 that hit the Pentagon, where Bush claimed Flight 77 hit it. Disappeared on American airlines Flight 77, the one that supposedly hit the Pentagon but did not.

    2001-09-11 Peter Gay Raytheon VP of Electronic Systems on special assignment at the El Segundo, CA division office where the Global Hawk UAV remote control system is made. Raytheon did the retrofit of the A-3 that hit the Pentagon, where Bush claimed Flight 77 hit it. Disappeared on American airlines Flight 11, the one that supposedly hit the North World Trade Tower I.

    2001-09-11 Kenneth Waldie Raytheon Senior Quality Control for Electronic Systems. Raytheon did the retrofit of the A-3 that hit the Pentagon, where Bush claimed Flight 77 hit it. Disappeared on American airlines Flight 11, the one that supposedly hit the North World Trade Tower I.

    2001-09-11 David Kovalcin Raytheon Senior Mechanical Engineer for Electronic Systems. Raytheon did the retrofit of the A-3 that hit the Pentagon, where Bush claimed Flight 77 hit it. Disappeared on American airlines Flight 11, the one that supposedly hit the North World Trade Tower I.

    2001-09-11 Herbert Homer Raytheon Corporate Executive working with the Department of Defense. Raytheon did the retrofit of the A-3 that hit the Pentagon, where Bush claimed Flight 77 hit it. Disappeared on United airlines Flight 175, the one that supposedly hit the South World Trade Tower II.

    These are not only the type of people but they are the people that would be assigned to UAV type projects involving Mode 4 and Mode 5 upgrades. Why would they be in Boston and those planes coming from that direction and from north of Manhattan Island?

    That 16 foot tunnel through three rings of the Pentagon is only made by a directional blast weapon. Rumsfeld has even slipped up and mentioned the missile that hit the Pentagon.

    Some have seen the Pentagon parking lot camera video and the white trail of smoke. Jets do now leave white trails of smoke at sea level, but Thiokol powered AGMs do, at all altitudes.

    A Real 9-11 Commission should have certain Hughes and Raytheon parties summoned for questioning.

    None of the right parties were being asked the right questions nor were any of the right issues addressed by the bogus 9-11 Commission that Bush appointed.

    It would be a systematic, slow and painful process but in the end it would be beyond painful for certain parties. In the end, it would be a long overdue flushing of the toilet that is Washington, DC.

    Bear in mind, these are the 9-11 Commission members that keep holding press conferences urging the President and Congress to implement their plan and findings, with all urgency.

    Yes, they are urgent because the Truth is on their trail...

    , as well as those that follow:

    Condoleezza Rice and the entire Chevron Board of Directors and key management in the United States and Caspian Basin area; and

    Dick Cheney, for his role on the Oil Advisory Board of Kazakhstan as well as Vice President of the United States; http://www.contractwatch.org/datavault/backgrounddocs/Halliburton/housto n.pdf and

    James H. Giffen, for the following reasons: http://www.seen.org/PDFs/Tug_of_war.pdf

    Certain parties from the World Bank, Asian Development Bank, OPIC [Overseas Private Investment Corporation]; and

    At least 8 of the 10 commissioners sitting on the 9-11 Commission (see yesterday's email update); and

    Thomas Kean and all of the Amerada Hess board members, including Nicholas Brady and Edith Holiday. See except below from another article I wrote; and.

    Richard Armitage relating to his role and activities with the Pakistani ISI prior to 9-11 and since, and his Armitage & Associates which included the OPIC president Peter Watson; and

    Numerous Big Oil executives and board members; and

    Numerous Big Defense executives; and

    FBI Translator Sibel D. Edmonds with the identity of all foreign and American names she found financing 9-11; and

    Bridas Corporation executives and in the field operations people from the Caspian Basin region; and

    Certain executives from US energy companies that operate natural gas fired electrical generators in Pakistan and need cheaper natural gas to improve their already bloated bottom lines; and

    Certain former ENRON executives and operations people and certain current Prisma Energy International executives,

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisma_Energy_International_Inc.

    the new name for Cayman Island based ENRON and run by former ENRON and Halliburton execs; and

    Certain Federal whistleblowers from multiple agencies; and

    Certain Federal Reserve Bank persons including some who detected the same money laundering that Sibel Edmonds found; and

    Certain parties affiliated with the WTC and PANY&NJ; and

    Certain parties affiliated with asbestos removal and other WTC problems since at least 1988: and

    Certain parties of the Pentagon personnel records division, including the records for specific persons; and

    Certain parties with certain demolition companies; and

    Certain FBI officials, or purported FBI officials, that seized all of the known tapes in and around the Pentagon; and

    Certain persons from the Clinton – Gore Administration, Bush Administration, and certain consulting firms; and

    Literally thousands of other people since the puzzle literally has thousands of pieces.

    You can see another Part I, Pop Goes the Bush Mythology Bubble article at this link: http://www.mideastbeat.com/2005/12/and_in_the_beginning_was_911.html

    Edith Holiday was later elevated to Secretary of the Cabinet in the George H. W. Bush administration. She also sits on the boards of White Mountains Insurance, and Heinz (which I found interesting). On the White Mountains board is another Amerada Hess board member, Frank A. Olson, and another from Citigroup, Arthur Zankel. It only took one "Google" to find a gaggle that included WTC Larry Silverstein and Mr. Zankel.

    We might even have a Walker--Bush relative buried on that board too: F. Borden Walker, former Mobil Oil, Fairfax County, Va., board and now with Amerada Hess. That nasty matter of bribes in Kazakhstan involving Mr. James H. Giffen did involve Mobil, as well as Texaco, Amoco and Phillips Petroleum.

    Yes, Mr. Kean, Nicholas Brady, Ms. Holiday and F. Borden Walker will all benefit by the removal of the Taliban and Bridas Corporation. Part II--Pop Goes the Bush Mythology Bubble in part addresses the pipeline all of these people conspired to take over. They could not make billions from oil investments in Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan and not have a way to get the landlocked oil and gas out. They had to have that pipeline across Afghanistan and the Taliban / Bridas Corporation were blocking the way. Chevron and Condoleezza Rice had to have been sitting in that boardroom down there, too, trying to figure out ways to get control of that pipeline so the oil and gas could get out."

    Following the trail and the trial of James H. Giffen makes for interesting reading:

    http://www.onlinejournal.com/archive/05-16-02_Chin-Pt_2.pdf

    http://enews.ferghana.ru/4printer.php?id=1230

    http://kazhegeldin.addr.com/2004en/engl_03_06_04.html

    None of the right parties were being asked the right questions nor were any of the right issues addressed by the bogus 9-11 Commission that Bush appointed.

    It would be a systematic, slow and painful process but in the end it would be beyond painful for certain parties. In the end, it would be a long overdue flushing of the toilet that is Washington, DC.

    Bear in mind, these are the 9-11 Commission members that keep holding press conferences urging the President and Congress to implement their plan and findings, with all urgency.

    Yes, they are urgent because the Truth is on their trail...

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:00am

54. CIA

    At least four of those named to the 9/11 Commission and staff have links to the intelligence apparatus.

    Several years ago, Zgibniew Brzezinski talked about Operation Cyclone, which he initiated in 1979 at the end of Jimmy Carter's presidential term. The CIA helped foster Islamic fundamentalism in Afghanistan to destabilize the region because of the Soviet Union -- and oil.

    The program continued throughout the 1980's when G.W. H. Bush was vice president and CIA assets like bin Laden and Saddam Hussein directly or indirectly carried out U.S. covert activities and shadow government policies.

    Council on Foreign Relations

    Half of those named to the Commission -- Kissinger, Mitchell, Kean, Hamilton, Lehman, and Gorelick -- are members of the CFR. Rice was on the nominating committee in 1991.

    As part of the shadow government, the Council has influenced national security policy so that its titular head has profited in arms and oil.

    Since 1950, the Council on Foreign Relations has been David Rockefeller's child. The CFR serves the interests of Rockefeller's global empire of oil and financial interests (Exxon, Chase Manhattan Bank, JP Morgan Chase).

    While the Council has 2,000 to 3,000 members -- movers and shakers in politics, media, and corporate board rooms, the Historical Rosters of Directors and Officers show key CFR players are key players on the global scene: Allen W. Dulles, the first CIA director, was a primary CFR participant from 1927 to 1969; William (McGeorge) Bundy, National Security Advisor in the Kennedy and Johnson administrations and an architect of the Vietnam War, was editor of the Council's publication, Foreign Affairs, from 1972 to 1984. Others notables include Averill Harriman; Brzezinski; George H.W. Bush; Kissinger; Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, and Dick Cheney.

    Photos from the CFR 1991 annual report near the end of the first Bush administration portray a snapshot of the Council near the end of the first Bush administration. David Rockefeller's picture is prominent throughout the report. Photographs include Cheney in Paris, October 1990; the President of Mexico and David Rockefeller, and Cyrus Vance with the Security General of the U.N. and David Rockefeller. That 1991 meeting was prescient looking at the Gulf and the Future of the U.N.

    Another photo is of Ahmed Chalabi, founder and former chair of Petra Bank, at a March 1991 round table discussion on the topic For Democracy in Iraq. He gave the current Bush administration misleading and fabricated information before the U.S. invaded Iraq last year.

    http://www.communitycurrency.org/joycelynn.html

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:01am

55. Both of these are Brief – important viewing

    David Rockefeller – American Traitor:

    Founder of Council On Foreign Relations:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ensmPJm5B5A&NR

    David Rockefeller & Dick Cheney:

    American Traitors…

    Cheney laughs about lying to his constituents in order to get elected:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdxLYuvvbgs&NR

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:02am

56. Why was Dick Cheney meeting with a notorious "terrorist" supporter in the 1990's? Why did the CEO of Ptech confirm Cheney's close relationship to this man? What role did Ptech play in Cheney's activities on 9/11?

    http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/searchResults.jsp?searchtext=cheney&e vents=on&entities=on&articles=on&topics=on&timelines=on&projects=on&titl es=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on&search=Go

    Mid-1990s: Al-Qadi Claims Good Relationship with Cheney

    Saudi multimillionaire Yassin al-Qadi will say in an interview shortly after 9/11, "I have also met with US Vice President and former Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney in Jeddah [Saudi Arabia]. I spoke to him for a long time and we still have cordial relations." The US had named al-Qadi a supporter of terrorism and frozen his assets two days before.

    Oussama Ziade, CEO of Ptech, a US computer company that al-Qadi had invested in and that will be raided for suspected terrorism ties, later will claim that al-Qadi "talked very highly of his relationship" with Cheney. Ziade will claim he only knew al-Qadi for a few years starting around 1994, so presumably the contact between al-Qadi and Cheney happens during the mid-1990s.

    http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=68463

    "Ptech was with MITRE Corporation in the basement of the FAA for two years prior to 9/11," Singh said. "Their specific job is to look at interoperability issues the FAA had with NORAD and the Air Force in the case of an emergency. If anyone was in a position to know that the FAA – that there was a window of opportunity or to insert software or to change anything – it would have been Ptech along with MITRE."

    http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=68985

    Ptech "produced software that derived from PROMIS, had an artificial intelligence core, and was installed on virtually every computer system of the U.S. government and its military agencies on September 11, 2001,"

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:03am

57. NATIONAL COMMISSION ON TERRORIST ATTACKS UPON THE UNITED STATES Public Hearing Friday, May 23, 2003 Hart Senate Office Building Room 216 Washington, DC

    ......excerpt........

    [[the following Cheney stand down order is confused for a shoot down order]]

    MR. HAMILTON: We thank you for that. I wanted to focus just a moment on the Presidential Emergency Operating Center. You were there for a good part of the day. I think you were there with the vice president. And when you had that order given, I think it was by the president, that authorized the shooting down of commercial aircraft that were suspected to be controlled by terrorists, were you there when that order was given?

    MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And --

    MR. HAMILTON: The flight you're referring to is the --

    MR. MINETA: The flight that came into the Pentagon.

    MR. HAMILTON: The Pentagon, yeah.

    MR. MINETA: And so I was not aware that that discussion had already taken place. But in listening to the conversation between the young man and the vice president, then at the time I didn't really recognize the significance of that.

    And then later I heard of the fact that the airplanes had been scrambled from Langley to come up to DC, but those planes were still about 10 minutes away. And so then, at the time we heard about the airplane that went into Pennsylvania, then I thought, "Oh, my God, did we shoot it down?" And then we had to, with the vice president, go through the Pentagon to check that out.

    MR. HAMILTON: Let me see if I understand. The plane that was headed toward the Pentagon and was some miles away, there was an order to shoot that plane down. [[notice the panel member is trying to coerce the witness to affirm this]]

    MR. MINETA: Well, I don't know that specifically, but I do know that the airplanes were scrambled from Langley or from Norfolk, the Norfolk area. But I did not know about the orders specifically other than listening to that other conversation.

    MR. HAMILTON: But there very clearly was an order to shoot commercial aircraft down. [[notice the panel is forcing a perspective that doesn't exist]]

    MR. MINETA: Subsequently I found that out.

    MR. HAMILTON: With respect to Flight 93, what type of information were you and the vice president receiving about that flight?

    MR. MINETA: The only information we had at that point was when it crashed.

    MR. HAMILTON: I see. You didn't know beforehand about that airplane.

    MR. MINETA: I did not.

    MR. HAMILTON: And so there was no specific order there to shoot that plane down.

    MR. MINETA: No, sir.

    MR. HAMILTON: But there were military planes in the air in position to shoot down commercial aircraft.

    MR. MINETA: That's right. The planes had been scrambled, I believe, from Otis at that point.

    MR. HAMILTON: Could you help me understand a little the division of responsibility between the FAA and NORAD on that morning?

    MR. MINETA: Well, FAA is in touch with NORAD. And when the first flight from Boston had gone out of communications with the air traffic controllers, the air traffic controller then notified, I believe, Otis Air Force Base about the air traffic controller not being able to raise that American Airlines flight.

    references...

    http://newsmine.org/archive/9-11/norad-faa-response/cheney-stand-do

    http://www.9-11commission.gov/archive/hearing2/9-11Commission_Heari

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:03am

58. Thanks for the comprehensive coverage of yesterday's demonstration for peace Rese and Plunger. And Skeetjr, I/we disagree with your Leninism, prefering John Lennon's heart to Vladimir Lenin's cognitions/strategies.

    And I just learned of Molly Ivins' hospitilization. My thoughts and best wishes go out to her and I encourage others here to send their's as well.

    Posted by lewwelge at 01/28/2007 @ 07:06am

59. Look - here's the deal:

    The biggest problem we face (a coup by a foreign power and treason within) cannot be openly discussed. The "special relationship" IS the problem. Dov Zakheim stole $7 trillion from the DOD and sent it to Israel. Want to know why Bush is unafraid of the supposed "power of the purse" and the threat by Congress not to fund his escalation? The money is not needed. They stole it in advance of 9/11 (witness Rumsfeld's admission of $2.3 trillion missing on 9/10/2001). The entire campaign is ALREADY FUNDED.

    Zakheim stole the money on behalf of the co-conspirators in the coup (the Bush Cabinet and Likud - in concert with The Crown). They looted the US Treasury IN ADVANCE OF 9/11.

    They did it because it was all part of the master plan. Chaos in Iraq is PART OF THE PLAN. The funding for the escalation is NOT coming from any budget that Congress has ANY CONTROL OVER. The money was already sent to Israel in advance of PNAC's "NEW PERLE HARBOR" and will now be tapped on an as needed basis - having lost the backing of the American people and congress.

    This ALL planned for.

    Ask Dov Zakheim about the $7 trillion.

    He and Kobi Alexander (former CEO of Comverse) were co-conspirators in the implementation of 9/11. Zakheim's "Sysplan" provided the fly-by-wire technology and Comverse / Ptech provided the software.

    Why is Kobi Alexander (wanted on Federal Charges) under the cover of the Witness Protection Program in the United States?

    Where is Kobi?

    Where is Dov?

    Expose That!

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:10am

60. L I E D

    U S

    I N T O

    W A R

    .

    CLAIMS & FACTS

    Rhetoric, Reality and the War in Iraq

    CLAIM: "The regime of Saddam Hussein cultivated ties to terror while it built weapons of mass destruction." – President Bush's UN speech, 9/23/03 CLAIM: "Iraq [is] the central front in the war on terror." – President Bush's UN speech, 9/23/03 CLAIM: "You can't distinguish between al-Qaida and Saddam." – President Bush, 9/25/02 CLAIM: "There's no question that Saddam Hussein had al Qaeda ties." – President Bush, 9/17/03 CLAIM: "There was a relationship between Iraq and al-Qaeda." – Vice President Cheney, 9/14/03

    CLAIM: "We have never claimed that Saddam Hussein ... had either direction or control of 9/11." – National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, 9/16/03

    CLAIM: "We found the weapons of mass destruction." – President Bush, 5/29/03 CLAIM: "We know where the WMDs are." – Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, 3/30/03 CLAIM: "The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder." – President Bush, 3/19/03

    CLAIM: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." – President Bush, 1/28/03 CLAIM: "We believe Saddam has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons." – Vice President Cheney, 3/16/03

    CLAIM: "Evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program...Iraq could have a nuclear weapon in less than a year." - President Bush, 10/7/02 CLAIM: "[Saddam] is actively pursuing nuclear weapons at this time."- VP Cheney, 3/24/02 CLAIM: "We believe Saddam has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons." - VP Cheney, 3/16/03 CLAIM: "We do know that [Saddam] is actively pursuing a nuclear weapon."- National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, 9/10/02 CLAIM: "Iraqis were actively trying to pursue a nuclear weapons program." - National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, 7/11/03

    CLAIM: "We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories." -President Bush, on locating the mobile biological weapons labs, 5/29/03 CLAIM: "We know where the [WMD] are." - Don Rumsfeld, 3/30/03 CLAIM: "Iraq has at least seven mobile factories for the production of biological agents - equipment mounted on trucks and rails to evade discovery." –President Bush, 2/8/03 CLAIM: "I'm absolutely sure that there are weapons of mass destruction there and the evidence will be forthcoming. We're just getting it now." - Colin Powell, 5/4/03

    CLAIM: "There can be no doubt that Saddam Hussein has biological weapons and the capability to rapidly produce more, many more...Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough agent to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets." – Colin Powell, 2/5/03 CLAIM: "[Saddam has] amassed large, clandestine stockpiles of biological weapons, including Anthrax, botulism, toxins and possibly smallpox. He's amassed large, clandestine stockpiles of chemical weapons, including VX, Sarin and mustard gas." --Don Rumsfeld, 9/19/02 CLAIM: "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt that he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us." –Vice President Cheney, 8/26/02 CLAIM: "The Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons...And according to the British government, the Iraqi regime could launch a biological or chemical attack in as little as 45 minutes." –President Bush, 9/26/02 CLAIM: "Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent." –President Bush, 1/28/03 CLAIM: "His regime has large, unaccounted-for stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons -- including VX, sarin, cyclosarin and mustard gas; anthrax, botulism, and possibly smallpox -- and he has an active program to acquire and develop nuclear weapons." – Don Rumsfeld, 1/20/03

    F A C T S

    FACT: No evidence exists to substantiate the claim that Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda had any connections. In fact, most intelligence points to the contrary. FACT: Under the headline "Allies Find No Links Between Iraq, Al Qaeda," the LA Times reported on 11/4/02 that U.S. allies fighting Al Qaeda in Europe found no evidence of an IraqiQaeda connection. FACT: On 12/18/01, the London Telegraph reported a story under the headline "Iraq link to Sept 11 attack and anthrax is ruled out" detailing how key assertions made by the Administration were unfounded. FACT: The NY Times in June reported, "The chairman of the monitoring group appointed by the United Nations Security Council to track Al Qaeda told reporters that his team had found no evidence linking Al Qaeda to Saddam Hussein." [6/27/03] FACT: The bipartisan September 11th commission report "undercuts Bush administration claims before the war that Hussein had links to Al Qaeda." [LA Times, 7/19/03]. FACT: The New York Times reported "since the fall of Baghdad, coalition forces have not brought to light any significant evidence demonstrating the bond between Iraq and Al Qaeda...Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah, the two highest-ranking Qaeda operatives in custody, have told investigators that Mr. bin Laden shunned cooperation with Saddam Hussein." [NY Times, 7/20/03]. FACT: National Journal reported on 8/9/03, that "three former Bush Administration officials who worked on intelligence and national security issues said the prewar evidence tying Al Qaedea was tenuous, exaggerated and often at odds with the conclusions of key intelligence agencies."

    FACT: President Bush sent a letter to Congress on 3/19/03 saying that the Iraq war was permitted specifically under legislation that authorized force against "nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001." FACT: Vice President Cheney said on 9/14/03 "I think it's not surprising that people make that connection" between Saddam and 9/11- with no evidence to back up his claim. FACT: Two days after Cheney made that statement, Reuters reported on 9/18/03 that "President Bush distanced himself from the comments."

    FACT: No WMD have been found. According to Reuters on 9/15/03, the Administration's hand picked weapons inspector has come up with no WMD on his visit to Iraq. "A draft report on the search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq provides no solid evidence that Iraq had such arms when the United States invaded the country in March." (Note: the chemical weapons Bush was referring to at the time never materialized.) FACT: Despite the claim that Iraq's supposed WMD posed an imminent threat to the U.S., Secretary of State Colin Powell said on 2/24/01 that Saddam Hussein "has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction."

    FACT: On 7/8/03, the W. Post reported the Administration admitted the Iraq-Nuclear allegation was false. "Revelations by officials at the CIA, the State Department, the UN, in Congress and elsewhere" made clear that the White House knew the claim was false before making the allegation [7/20/03]. In fact, "CIA Director George Tenet successfully intervened with White House officials to have the reference" removed from a Bush speech in Oct. of 2002. [W. Post, 7/13/03] FACT: The UN reported on 9/8/03 that Iraq was not capable of pursuing an active nuclear weapons program after 1991. The report said ""No indication of post-1991 weaponization activities was uncovered in Iraq." FACT: Voice of America reported on 9/16/03 that, "A senior official in Iraq's new science ministry says the country never revived its nuclear program after inspectors dismantled it in the 1990's." The scientist, now a member of the U.S.-backed administration in Iraq, "says Iraqi scientists had no way to re-start the program because the inspectors took away all the necessary resources."

    FACT: "We have not uncovered evidence that Iraq undertook significant post-1998 steps to actually build nuclear weapons or produce fissile material." - Bush Administration Weapons Inspector David Kay, 10/2/03

    FACT: "We have not yet been able to corroborate the existence of a mobile biological weapons production effort...Technical limitations would prevent any of these processes from being ideally suited to these trailers." - Bush Administration Weapons Inspector David Kay, 10/2/03

    FACT: "Iraq did not have a large, ongoing, centrally controlled chemical weapons program after 1991... Iraq's large-scale capability to develop, produce, and fill new chemical weapon munitions was reduced - if not entirely destroyed - during Operations Desert Storm and Desert Fox, 13 years of UN sanctions and UN inspections." - Bush Administration Weapons Inspector David Kay, 10/2/03

    HANG THE LIARS.

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:11am

61. http://proliberty.com/observer/20000906.htm

    From the September 2000 Idaho Observer:

    RAND analyst admits Defense Secretary fits profile of domestic terrorist?

    "Astute observation" begs question: "Who are the real terrorists?"

    The Department of Defense's definition of terrorism is:

    "The calculated use of violence or the threat of violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or try to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious or ideological."

    "All acts of terrorism are politically motivated,"

    "Why would Cohen, who has access to all chemical/biological weapons intelligence data, including that disseminated by RAND, scare the public with the imminence of a chemical/biological threat? Is he not mirroring the intent of 'terrorists' to leave a specific impression on a gullible public," asked Don Harkins of The Idaho Observer.

    Chalk gave a thoughtful and lengthy answer to Harkins' question. Chalk explained that Cohen's public announcement was undoubtedly prompted by lobbyists who used the Clinton cabinet member as political leverage to fund their anti-terrorism programs and research.

    "Earlier today Dr. Hoffman stated that 'all terrorist acts are politically motivated.' What you just described to me is that Cohen's threat of imminent chemical or biological attack was politically motivated. How, then, is Defense Secretary Cohen's behavior different from what you guys have described as that of a domestic terrorist?" Harkins asked.

    With a smile that seemed to say, "touchet," Chalk said, "Your observation is very astute."

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:12am

62. "Every pretext for war is created by those with the capacity to profit from it."

    Plunger

    http://www.rense.com/general31/cyc.htm

    The CIA's "Operation Cyclone" - Stirring The Hornet's Nest Of Islamic Unrest FriendsOfLiberty.com 10-27-2

    Zbigniew Brzezinski not long ago revealed that on July 3, 1979, unknown to the American public and Congress, President Jimmy Carter secretly authorized $500 million to create an international terrorist movement that would spread Islamic fundamentalism in Central Asia and "de-stabilise" the Soviet Union... The CIA called this Operation Cyclone and in the following years poured $4 billion into setting up Islamic training schools in Pakistan (Taliban means "student").

    Young zealots were sent to the CIA's spy training camp in Virginia, where future members of al-Qaeda were taught "sabotage skills" - terrorism.

    Others were recruited at an Islamic school in Brooklyn, New York, within sight of the fated Twin Towers.

    In Pakistan, they were directed by British MI6 officers and trained by the SAS.

    The result, quipped Brzezinski, was "a few stirred up Muslims" - meaning the Taliban.

    The Wall Street Journal declared: "The Taliban are the players most capable of achieving peace. Moreover, they were crucial to secure the country as a prime trans-shipment route for the export of Central Asia's vast oil, gas and other natural resources."

    No American newspaper dares suggest that the prisoners in Camp X-Ray are the product of this policy, nor that it was one of the factors that led to the attacks of September 11.

    Nor do they ask: who were the real winners of September 11?

    The day the Wall Street stock market opened after the destruction of the Twin Towers, the few companies showing increased value were the giant military contractors Alliant Tech Systems, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon (a contributor to New Labor) and Lockheed Martin.

    As the US military's biggest supplier, Lockheed Martin's share value rose by a staggering 30 per cent.

    Within six weeks of September 11, the company (with its main plant in Texas, George Bush's home state) had secured the biggest military order in history: a $200 billion contract to develop a new fighter aircraft. The greatest taboo of all, which Orwell would surely recognize, is the record of the United States as a terrorist state and haven for terrorists.

    This truth is virtually unknown by the American public and makes a mockery of Bush's (and Blair's) statements about "tracking down terrorists wherever they are."

    They don't have to look far.

    THERE IS NO OSAMA BIN LADEN.

    AL QAEDA IS MERELY AN IDEA.

    THERE IS NO "WAR ON TERROR"

    THERE IS MERELY TERROR, CAUSED DIRECTLY BY THOSE WHO GAIN THE MOST FROM IT.

    AFGHANISTAN'S OPIUM PRODUCTION IS AT ALL TIME HIGHS SINCE 9/11 AND OUR RESULTING INVASION.

    GEORGE HW BUSH'S CIA/DEA DRUG IMPORTATION OPERATIONS ARE AS PROFITABLE AS EVER.

    THE US IS LEADING THE "WAR OF TERROR."

    GOOGLE: "FALSE FLAG"

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:13am

63. K A R L

    R O V E

    T H E

    T E R R O R I S T

    Despite his prior illegal actions, Karl Rove still retains his security clearance, and knew for WEEKS prior to London's latest fake terror alert what was coming. The odds that Rove himself advised London precisely what time to make this announcement are approximately 100%.

    This gave Rove the time necessary to plan a full frontal assault on the minds of the American People.

    Bill O'Reilly revealed Classified information in his recent live interview with Mossad Agent Michael Chertoff. While Chertoff wouldn't confirm or deny it, O'Reilly revealed that the FISA PROCESS was utilized to obtain warrants prior to placing wiretaps on some suspects in the US. While none of the suspects in the US was deemed to have been involved, this example was clear proof that the FISA Court WORKS – to the chagrin of Gonzales.

    http://progressivedailybeacon.com/more.php?page=opinion&id=1235

    Neo-Con Madmen Strike Again - The London Fear Frenzy

    Well before Wednesday the administration was aware of Britain's plans to launch a raid against a possible terror plot.

    With the knowledge of a terror-scare coming soon, all day Wednesday the entire Neo-Conservative Republican political apparatus had been busy assailing their political enemy's supposed unwillingness to fight terrorism. On Thursday the Neo-Con assault intensified and finally peaked when news of the British scheme was made public. Then, in the most vile and unbecoming manner possible, Republicans accused Democrats of having forgotten the attacks of 9/11. Some Republicans were even gleeful enough to remind reporters that with the anniversary of 9/11 fast approaching their attack on Democrats, coupled with the London conspiracy would do wonders for their lagging poll numbers:

    "Weeks before September 11th, this is going to play big," one White House official said.

    P L A Y

    B I G ? ? ?

    T E R R O R

    I S

    A

    G A M E ? ? ?

    For Karl Rove, terror is THE GAME.

    The timing of the release of this information was not coincidental. Let's take a look at how many other circumstances coincided with this fake terror scare…

    Lieberman was not the Democratic Party candidate - he was quite literally the Israeli candidate.

    AIPAC lost to Lamont, cracking the door open for an anti-AIPAC rebellion at the polls.

    Less than 36 hours later...

    "TERROR IN THE SKIES" was the headline on all news programming in the United States - and CNN would have you believe that the entire world changed that day (again).

    The world didn't change - but CNN's fear-mongering role in it on behalf of Israel has been clearly exposed.

    All of the President's NeoCons have made it known since Lieberman's loss to Lamont, just how important Lieberman has been to their agenda - the Zionist Agenda.

    They knew that Lieberman would lose, and Rove planned a full frontal attack for the aftermath – which by necessity always leads with a terror scare. Rove even called Lieberman directly to offer his help.

    As part of the game – a CNN talking head asks the question…

    "Lamont is the Al Qaeda Candidate???"

    KARL ROVE WROTE THAT TALKING POINT.

    CNN READ IT ON AIR.

    "When did you stop beating your wife?"

    Equally loaded questions.

    CNN's behavior is not coincidental.

    They're owned by Timer Warner, a company run and owned predominantly by Jews. That's not a racist remark - it is a fact. Just ask Ted Turner his opinion about CNN's propaganda slant toward Israel.

    T H E

    N E W

    I R A E L I

    E S P I O N A G E

    S C A N D A L

    At approximately 11:48 a.m. August 9th, CNN reported that Ariel Weinmann - a US Sailor - had been arrested for espionage committed on behalf of Russia. CNN intentionally lied. They know precisely that Weinmann had spied for Israel, as does the Jewish Media:

    Report: US sailor spied for Israel David Keyes, THE JERUSALEM POST

    Aug. 9, 2006

    CNN created a false anonymous source, and claimed that an American Jew was spying for Russia.

    THE CNN LIE:

    From Barbara Starr CNN Washington Bureau Wednesday, August 9, 2006; Posted: 1:57 p.m. EDT (17:57 GMT)

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A sailor facing espionage and desertion charges has been held at a Norfolk, Virginia, brig since March, the U.S. Navy said Wednesday.

    Ariel Weinmann, 21, is suspected of having worked on behalf of Russia, said military sources close to the case.

    http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/09/sailor.charge/index.html

    C N N ‘ S

    B A R B A R A

    S T A R

    I S

    A

    C I A

    D I S I N F O M A T I O N

    A S S E T

    Barbara Starr was CNN's correspondent at the Pentagon. The Pentagon is being run in concert with Israel. During the lead up to the Iraqi invasion – Karen Kwiatkowski confirmed that Israeli Generals were free to come and go at will – and NEVER recorded their visits.

    Israeli Mole Larry Franklin worked in the Pentagon – inside Rumsfeld's Office Of Special Plans.

    Franklin was arrested for spying in concert with AIPAC – for Israel.

    Israel calls the editorial shots at CNN.

    This Weinmann spy case is HUGE! As big as the Jonathan Pollard case.

    Notice it is NOT IN THE HEADLINES?

    Yet another story pertaining to Israeli spying was released into the ether during the fake terror hype.

    T H E

    A I P A C

    S P Y

    S C A N D A L

    The Israeli Connection

    http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m25108&l=i&size=1&hd=0

    On the morning of February 12th, 2003, a small group of FBI eavesdroppers were listening intently for evidence of a treacherous crime. At the very moment that American forces were massing for an invasion of Iraq, there were indications that a rogue group of senior Pentagon officials were already conspiring to push the United States into another war--this time with Iran.

    A few miles away, FBI agents watched as Larry Franklin, an Iran expert and career employee of the Defense Intelligence Agency, drove up to the Ritz-Carlton hotel across the Potomac from Washington.

    T H I S

    H E A D L I N E

    W A S

    B U R I E D

    A M I D

    T H E

    F A K E

    T E R R O R

    S C A R E

    Judge denies motion to toss pro-Israel spy case

    Friday, August 11, 2006; Posted: 10:06 a.m. EDT

    The indictment against Steven Rosen of Silver Spring, Maryland, and Keith Weissman of Bethesda, Maryland, alleges that they conspired to obtain classified reports on issues relevant to American policy, including the al-Qaida terror network; the bombing of the Khobar Towers dormitory in Saudi Arabia, which killed 19 U.S. Air Force personnel; and U.S. policy in Iran.

    Rosen and Weissman, former lobbyists for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, are accused of sharing the information with reporters and foreign diplomats. No trial date has been set.

    K H O B A R

    T O W E R S ? ? ?

    Why was Israel so keen to have Classified information relative to the Khobar Towers incident? Did they want to see if the US Intelligence officials had figured out that Mossad did it?

    S O…

    Are you a Coincidence Theorist?

    Pakistan's Intelligence Service purportedly uncovers a massive terror cell - and the news just happens to hit right on the heels of the biggest AIPAC loss in a decade.

    It couldn't very well have been "revealed" by Mossad" - as that would have been too obvious - so they credit Pakistan's ISI for uncovering the purported plot.

    Sure...you bet.

    9/11

    Within 10 minutes of the second twin tower being hit in the World Trade Center... CNN said Osama bin Laden had done it. That was a planned piece of disinformation by the real perpetrators. It created an instant mindset and put public opinion into a trance, which prevented even intelligent people from thinking for themselves.

    This was clearly an inside job.

    Karl Rove had advance knowledge of EVERY TERROR ALERT since Bush took office in 2000.

    Because he creates them.

    "T H E

    A R C H I T E C T"

    O F

    T E R R O R

    I S

    K A R L

    R O V E

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:14am

64. W H O

    A R E

    T H E

    R E A L

    T E R R O R I S T S ?

    August 14, 2006 The UK Terror plot: what's really going on?

    I have been reading very carefully through all the Sunday newspapers to try and analyse the truth from all the scores of pages claiming to detail the so-called bomb plot. Unlike the great herd of so-called security experts doing the media analysis, I have the advantage of having had the very highest security clearances myself, having done a huge amount of professional intelligence analysis, and having been inside the spin machine.

    So this, I believe, is the true story.

    None of the alleged terrorists had made a bomb. None had bought a plane ticket. Many did not even have passports, which given the efficiency of the UK Passport Agency would mean they couldn't be a plane bomber for quite some time.

    In the absence of bombs and airline tickets, and in many cases passports, it could be pretty difficult to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt that individuals intended to go through with suicide bombings, whatever rash stuff they may have bragged in internet chat rooms.

    What is more, many of those arrested had been under surveillance for over a year - like thousands of other British Muslims. And not just Muslims. Like me. Nothing from that surveillance had indicated the need for early arrests.

    In all of this, the one thing of which I am certain is that the timing is deeply political. This is more propaganda than plot.

    http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/archives/2006/08/the_uk_terror_p.html

    T H E

    T I M I N G

    W A S

    D E T E R M I N E D

    B Y

    K A R L

    R O V E

    T H E

    T E R R O R I S T

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:15am

65. 9/11

    9/11

    9/11........

    Hey Karl...here's one for ya...

    Prior to 9/11, those numbers in that sequence signified an emergency number to call for help in the United States.

    What was the significance of selecting that date for the attack?

    Clearly, it was so that it tied into our prior media conditioning about 911.

    You thought of that - didn't you Karl?

    You selected the date for what it represents to Americans.

    No man in a cave in the desert came up with that.

    No one is more clever than you.

    You picked the date for the attack, didn't you Karl?

    You are sooooooooooo clever.

    And now to imply that if only we had allowed the NSA to violate the Constitution prior to 9/11, it might never have happened...well you know that's bullshit, because the NSA WAS performing warrantless wiretaps prior to 9/11 - weren't they, Karl?

    You and the boys were relying on Comverse wiretaps to keep track of what the intelligence agencies were up to.

    That's how you knew to order the stand-down of the Able Danger Operation.

    That's how you knew to order the FBI to stop all work on the Bin Laden family in advance of 9/11.

    That's how you managed to run interference for the Mossad, the ISI, Cheney and others in advance of the actual event on 9/11.

    Only a few of us actually know and appreciate your particular genius, Karl.

    We know how many balls you are capable of juggling at the same time.

    We know that you are the master of misdirection and manufactured reality.

    We know you are the mastermind of THE 9/11 COVERUP.

    We know, Karl.

    We know.

    We know.

    We know.

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:17am

66. Karl:

    Put your hand on the bible.

    Now, under oath, do you swear that the NSA, AT&T, Comverse and others were NOT conducting Warrantless Wiretaps in advance of 9/11 during the early months of the Bush Administration, so help you God?

    What's that Karl, I can't hear you, could you speak up please, you're mumbling.

    You're not willing to swear to it under oath?

    You mean the Bush Administration ALREADY WAS engaged in warrantless wiretaps prior to 9/11, and 9/11 happened any way?

    Well shit, that changes everything, doesn't it Karl?

    Maybe it's the case that 9/11 could never have happened WITHOUT your warrantless wiretaps prior to 9/11.

    How else could you orchestrate all of the interference to enable the attacks to be pulled off on the exact same day and at the exact same time as NORAD had been ordered to stand down to conduct drills simulating planes being hijacked and flown into buildings?

    We know Karl.

    We know what you did.

    We know.

    We know.

    We know.

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:18am

67. Chandra Levy and Monica Lewinsky – "Swallows" for Israel.

    Isn't it interesting that Lieberman's name pops up in the case of two similar-looking tarts, who were "Honey Pots" (or "Swallows" - the term used to describe women in the employ of Israel whose job is to compromise US Officials) for Israel's Mossad?

    Note that his article dated less than TWO MONTHS PRIOR TO 9/11.

    Police to return to parks in Levy case Experts: Condit damaged own reputation

    July 22, 2001 Posted: 6:07 PM EDT (2207 GMT)

    Sen. Joseph Lieberman, D-Connecticut, said it wouldn't be productive to focus on Condit's conduct. In 1998, Lieberman was the first prominent Democrat to criticize Clinton for his affair with Monica Lewinsky.

    Lieberman said the two matters are different and he declined to say whether Condit should resign, as two Republican lawmakers have said.

    "The Chandra Levy case is a missing persons case. And I think we all ought to let the law-enforcement authorities focus on finding Chandra Levy and relieving the terrible trauma and nightmare that her family and friends have gone through," Lieberman told Fox News Sunday. "And when that is over, politicians can begin to speak out."

    Saturday, a spokeswoman for Vice President Dick Cheney, said Cheney met with Condit around the same time Levy was logging off her computer in her apartment May 1.

    Juleanna Glover Weiss said the meeting happened between 12:30 p.m. and 12:50 p.m. in Cheney's office in the House of Representatives. The meeting was "at Condit's request," she said, and included Cheney and some of Cheney's staff discussing the California energy crisis.

    http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/07/21/missing.intern/index.html

    CHENEY ORDERED THE HIT TO PROTECT THE 9/11 OPERATION?

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:19am

68. http://www.aztlan.net/israeli_sexpionage.htm

    Israeli Sexpionage : The McGreevey, Condit and Clinton Affairs

    Chandra Levy and Monica Lewinsky, which I will discuss later, can be called "Swallows".

    Zionist Israel places great importance in its "symbiotic" relationship with the USA. In fact, the State of Israel would be unable to exist without the vast amounts of aid, both military and social welfare, that is sent yearly to prop up the Zionist government. This total amount is estimated to be more than 5 Billion dollars per year. In addition, Israel survives and depends on critical technology transfers that are obtained both through cooperation and covertly. For example, Israel now possess thermonuclear bombs and missiles, thanks to an American Jew, Jonathan Pollard, who stole the "nuclear secrets" while working as a US Naval Analyst. Pollard, it was admitted by the Israeli government, was a MOSSAD spy. He is presently doing a life term in a US Federal Prison for his crime.

    The success and effectiveness of the Israel/USA symbiotic relationship depends on many factors. One is massive propaganda through the US based Zionist press that keeps the American people in a constant stupor about certain political and economic realities. Another is the near total subserviency of corrupt politicians, especially of the Democratic Party, who do not speak up because they are on the take. Another is the massive infiltration into government of what are nothing less than Israeli agents. Israeli agents in the Pentagon, for example, has caused the USA dearly in terms of the costs of the "War on Iraq" and in terms of its "hated image" around the world.

    Lastly, a factor that is very important for Israel in keeping a profitable symbiotic relationships with the USA is effective sexpionage. Sexpionage is so important to Israel, that it has opened an office for this purpose right smack in the center of US political power -- Washington D.C. The office fronts as a post 911 anti-terrorism institute and is located at 3811 N. Fairfax Drive, Suite 720 Arlington, VA 22203. The Chief of the office is non other that the immediate former Director of the Israeli MOSSAD, Shabtai Shavit.

    The target in this sexpionage operation was the married Gary Condit, who was a senior member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. As member of the committee, Condit was privy to highly classified information of much interest to Zionist Israel. The MOSSAD leaned on their "sleeper and sexpionage agent" Chandra Levy to obtain the secret US government information that the Israeli government needed. The MOSSAD arranged for Chandra Levy, than a US government intern, to meet Congressman Condit. Soon, the married Condit was having a sexual affair with the voluptuous 24 year old Chandra Levy.

    Whatever classified information Levy was able to obtain, on her "sexpionage mission", was at the cost of her life. One day before she was to return to California, she disappeared without a trace. The Washington D.C. police searched Congressman Condit's apartment for clues to no avail. Thirteen months later the "skull and bones" of Chandra Levy were found at Washington's Rock Creek Park even though the park had been repeatedly searched during the early phases of the investigation.

    Everyone reading this report should be acquainted with the President Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky affair. This has been called "The Mother of all Sexpionage Scandals" because it almost toppled a US presidency. Generally less known is the fact that Monica Lewinsky was actually a "sexpionage agent" working on behalf of the Israeli government. She was, and probably still is, what the MOSSAD calls a "Swallow".

    It is believed that Lewinsky's primary mission was to sexually compromise Bill Clinton in order to bribe him to release the Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard. The timing and unfolding of the "White House Sex Scandal" coincided with the efforts and meetings by the then Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu with President Bill Clinton in the White House.

    The mission for Israel failed but it ended giving the Zionist state some peripheral benefits. In an effort by Clinton to rid himself of the "Swallow", he transferred her to the Pentagon with the highest "security clearance" possible and which is only afforded to top brass and a few high level government officials. Soon Monica Lewinsky was cavorting with Admirals and Generals and became pregnant. She says she aborted the baby.

    No one knows what Pentagon secrets Lewinsky was able to pass on to the Zionists, but perhaps Paul Wolfowitz' great success in involving the USA in the War against Iraq may be the results of Monica Lewinsky's efforts on behalf of Israel. Sexpionage pays and it is paying big for Israel.

    .

    http://www.aztlan.net/israeli_sexpionage.htm

    Israeli Sexpionage

    Israel now possess thermonuclear bombs and missiles, thanks to an American Jew, Jonathan Pollard, who stole the "nuclear secrets" while working as a US Naval Analyst. Pollard, it was admitted by the Israeli government, was a MOSSAD spy. He is presently doing a life term in a US Federal Prison for his crime.

    The success and effectiveness of the Israel/USA symbiotic relationship depends on many factors. One is massive propaganda through the US based Zionist press that keeps the American people in a constant stupor about certain political and economic realities. Another is the near total subserviency of corrupt politicians.

    Sexpionage is so important to Israel, that it has opened an office for this purpose right smack in the center of US political power -- Washington D.C. The Chief of the office is non other that the immediate former Director of the Israeli MOSSAD, Shabtai Shavit.

    As member of the committee, Condit was privy to highly classified information of much interest to Zionist Israel. The MOSSAD leaned on their "sleeper and sexpionage agent" Chandra Levy to obtain the secret US government information that the Israeli government needed. The MOSSAD arranged for Chandra Levy, than a US government intern, to meet Congressman Condit.

    Whatever classified information Levy was able to obtain, on her "sexpionage mission", was at the cost of her life. One day before she was to return to California, she disappeared without a trace.

    Monica Lewinsky was actually a "sexpionage agent" working on behalf of the Israeli government. She was, and probably still is, what the MOSSAD calls a "Swallow".

    It is believed that Lewinsky's primary mission was to sexually compromise Bill Clinton in order to bribe him to release the Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard. The timing and unfolding of the "White House Sex Scandal" coincided with the efforts and meetings by the then Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu with President Bill Clinton in the White House.

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:20am

69. U.S. Nuclear Weapons Being "Guarded" by Israel American supporters of Israel were delighted to learn that an Israeli company, Magal Security Systems--owned in part by the government of Israel--is in charge of security for the most sensitive nuclear power and weapons storage facilities in the United States.

    The largest perimeter security company in the world, Magal started out as a division of Israeli Aircraft Industries (IAI)--which was owned in part by the government of Israel. In recent years, however, Magal evolved into a publicly-traded company, although IAI (and thus the government of Israel) still holds a substantial share in the highly successful firm.

    What all of this means is that the government of Israel will actually have control over the security of America's nuclear weapons.

    Supporters of Israel say that this is a splendid idea, since Israel is said to be perhaps America's closest ally on the face of the planet. However, there are some critics who question the propriety of America's super-sensitive nuclear security being in the hands of any foreign nation, particularly Israel which, even today, officially denies that it is engaged in the production of nuclear arms.

    Be that as it may, however, Magal's global interests are quite broad-ranging. Having secured 90 percent of Israel's borders through a wide-ranging array of super-modern "space age" technology, Magal has now branched out internationally. Not only does Magal provide security for American nuclear facilities, but it also does likewise for most major nuclear facilities in Western Europe and Asia.

    In addition, the Israeli firm also provides security for Chicago's O'Hare Airport and, for the last fifteen years, has kept watch on the Queen of England's famed Buckingham Palace in London. What's more, Magal provides security for 90% of the American prisons that utilize electronic systems.

    Magal brags that its other clients around the globe include: borders, airports, industrial sites, communication centers, military installations, correctional facilities, government agencies, VIP estates and residences, commercial buildings and storage yards. There is hardly a major country or major enterprise that does not have Magal's security specialists keeping a close watch on their activities.

    Clearly, Magal is no small enterprise. While 27% of its total sales are in the Israeli market, its largest market is in North America, which currently accounts for 35% of its sales.

    However, Magal's American outreach is expected to increase substantially, especially now that firm has set up a Washington, D.C. office which will promote its products to federal agencies and to the members of Congress who provide funding for federally-supervised security projects across the country at all levels: local, state and national.

    And with current U.S. Homeland Security Chief, Michael Chertoff, not only a strong supporter of Israel but also the son of a woman who has strong Israeli ties--even including service with El Al, the national airline of Israel--Magal, owned in party by Israeli Aircraft Industries--will be a clear-cut favorite in the eyes of the power brokers in official Washington who have the power to grant lucrative security contracts.

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/nukesguardedbyisrael.html

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:21am

70. THINK

    "Al Qaeda In Iraq" is a BRAND NAME born of US Marketing sensibilities.

    Do you really believe that if there were a terrorist group in Iraq, they would have a store front and letterhead with the name "Al Qaeda In Iraq?"

    This is Karl Rove INVENTION for US consumption.

    The media blissfully plays along without questioning whether such an "organzation" actually exists.

    Karl Rove is a BRANDING STRATEGIST.

    He's the one who selected "911" as the date for the false flag attack - chosen for it's implied reference to "EMERGENCY" in the collective American conscience.

    These are not coincidences - you're being SOLD a PRODUCT.

    They have the bought and paid for Zionist-controlled media on their side selling you a WAR WITHOUT END - all for the creation of the GREATER ISRAEL:

    THIS is Eretz Israel:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Israel

    The Agents of Israel who post here under hundreds of different names using MEGAPHONE software (invented by Mossad) are part of the campaign to expand Israel's territory and kill as many Arabs as possible in the process.

    America has been duped into enabling genocide - under a marketing and promotional plan devised to sell it to you as though it were a product to be Bought.

    Could it be any more obvious?

    There is no "Bin Laden"

    There is no "Al Qaeda"

    There was no "Al Zarkawi"

    This entire administration and the entire mainstream media is at the service of Israel - whose ONLY goal is total war until all of the water and oil of the Middle East is under their control.

    You'd be a fool to believe otherwise.

    The EVIDENCE is OVERWHELMING

    http://killtown.blogspot.com/2005/11/dancing-israelis-on-911.html

    http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/blitzer2.htm

    http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=4178

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/06/giyus_megaphone/

    http://www.eretz.com/NEW/

    Scroll down to this:

    GIYUS.ORG - Give Israel Your United Support

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:23am

71. Interpret it however you choose, but I've seen enough evidence to know that this poster is not merely here on his own behalf.

    By: AmericanTruthSeeker on January 21, 2007 at 06:03am

    Show me the objective evidence re: "Bama is not merely here on his own behalf"

    Show it to me and I'll believe. Otherwise .....

    By: ExRepublican on January 21, 2007 at 06:12am

    Fair enough...

    I posted twice in the early morning hours yesterday - my first two posts under this screen name EVER. Both posts were on topic.

    Bama's immediate response was this:

    Been to C&L lately? The same thing is going to start happening here if you don't knock off your spamming bullsh*t. Wait and see. We got the 350 word limit, and we'll shut you up if you can't present your ideas in a reasonable fashion.

    By: BamaBlues on January 19, 2007 at 05:53am

    How did Bama presume to know who I was? I've never posted under this screen name on C&L. What connections does Bama have to C&L to know who they have banned? They don't make a list public of those they have banned.

    Who is the "we" to whom he refers? To be sure, "THEY" sure have some powerful technology at their fingertips if "they" can immediately identify a poster's IP address, AND get them banned.

    This is all a very sophisticated operation, but occassionally, "little boy blue" blows his cover:

    HELP!!!!!!!!

    I'm SURROUNDED by NAZI'S over at the "UN VETO" thread!

    I can REALLY use some SUPPORT there.

    By: bluestateman on November 12, 2006 at 05:11am

    Note the emphasis of the word SUPPORT above?

    As in: Give Israel Your United SUPPORT (GIYUS)

    YOU'RE TOTALLY BUSTED!

    Look at this:

    "We need 100,000 Megaphone users to make a difference. So, please distribute this mail to all Israel's supporters.

    Do it now. For Israel.

    Amir Gissin - Director Public Affairs (Hasbara) Department

    GIYUS currently claims 24,000 Megaphone users."

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/06/giyus_megaphone/

    Who calls for "reinforcements" on a message board?

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:26am

72. There is no way to trust any news out of Israel - or the US Government for that matter.

    Hasbara is specifically designed to promote the Likud's goals - not advance the truth:

    Nathan Guttman has characterized hasbara as "pro-Israel propaganda, " while Avi Hyman has said "while propaganda strives to highlight the positive aspects of one side of a conflict, hasbara seeks to explain actions, whether or not they are justified."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasbara

    HASBARA IN ACTION:

    For detailed studies of the fabrications of groups like CAMERA and MEMRI, visit:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,773258,00.ht ml This is must reading about MEMRI and its "credibility" http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1869.shtml http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article445.shtml http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article7.shtml http://www.abunimah.org/features/020815memri.html http://electronicintifada.net/features/mediaonmedia/20010821camera.html http://www.abunimah.org/features/000403camera.html http://santacruz.indymedia.org/feature/display/13401/index.php

    MEGAPHONE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaphone_desktop_tool

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:26am

73. FAULTY MEMRI

    HUDSON INSTITUTE...

    Meyrav Wurmser, an opponent of the Oslo peace accords and a central neoconservative figure.

    In 1996 she helped write "A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm" and advised then-Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu "to work closely with Turkey and Jordan to contain, destabilize, and roll-back" regional threats, help overthrow Saddam Hussein, and strike "Syrian military targets in Lebanon" and possibly in Syria proper. Coauthors of the report included Richard Perle, David Wurmser, and Douglas Feith.

    She also cofounded with Yigal Carmon, a former colonel in the Israeli military intelligence, the Middle East Media and Research Institute (MEMRI).

    According to her Hudson Institute bio, Wurmser "helped to educate policymakers about the Palestinian Authority two-track approach to ‘negotiating peace' with Israel: calling for peace in the English press and with western policymakers while inciting hatred and violence through official Arab language media."

    Although it describes itself as "non-partisan," MEMRI–which has offices in London, Washington, Jerusalem, and Berlin–has frequently been accused of being nothing more than a propaganda outfit of Israeli intelligence.

    According the Guardian, which dug up deleted pages from MEMRI's web site through the internet archive, "Retrieving another now-deleted page from the archives of Memri's website also throws up a list of its staff. Of the six people named, three–including [Yigal] Carmon–are described as having worked for Israeli intelligence. Among the other three, one served in the Israeli army's Northern Command Ordnance Corps."

    The Guardian's Brian Whitaker also reported: "Although Memri claims that it does provide translations from Hebrew media, I can't recall receiving any. Evidence from Memri's website also casts doubt on its non-partisan status.

    Besides supporting liberal democracy, civil society, and the free market, the institute also emphasises ‘the continuing relevance of Zionism to the Jewish people and to the state of Israel'. That is what its website used to say, but the words about Zionism have now been deleted. The original page, however, can still be found in internet archives."

    http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1394

    .

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:27am

74. "The CDI's Ledeen, Amitay and Sobhani were featured speakers at a May 2003 forum on "the future of Iran' sponsored by AEI, the Hudson Institute and the Foundation for Defense of Democracies. The forum, chaired by the Hudson Institute's Meyrav Wurmser, the Israeli-born wife of David Wurmser (he serves as Cheney's leading expert on Iran and Syria), included a presentation by Un Lubrani of Israel's Ministry of Defense.

    Summarizing the sentiment of neoconservative ideologues and strategists, Meyrav Wurmser said: "Our fight against Iraq was only a battle in a long war. It would be ill-conceived to think we can deal with Iraq alone. We must move on, and faster."

    JINSA, a neoconservative organization established in 1976 that fosters closer strategic and military ties between the United States and Israel, also has its sights on Iran. At a JINSA policy forum in April 2003 titled "Time to Focus on Iran-The Mother of Modern Terrorism," Ledeen declared, "The time for diplomacy is at an end; it is time for a free Iran, free Syria and free Lebanon."

    JINSA, along with CSP, serves as one of the main institutional links to the military-industrial complex for neoconservatives. Ledeen served as JINSA's first executive director and was JINSA's "Godfather," according to Amitay. Amitay is a JINSA vice chair. JINSA board members or advisers also include former CIA director James Woolsey, former Rep. Jack Kemp and the AEI's Joshua Muravchik. After he joined the administration, Feith resigned from JINSA.'s board of advisers, as did Vice President Dick Cheney and Undersecretary of State for Arms Control John Bolton."

    http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Central_Asia_watch/Is_Iran_Next.html

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:28am

75. http://english.daralhayat.com/opinion/OPED/12-2005/Article-20051227-6d02 4106-c0a8-10ed-00d8-7731782f8f9d/story.html

    David Wurmser:

    What do Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, and David Wurmser have in common? We know that they're in the cabal of neocons, who want to destroy the Middle East in order to benefit Israel. But what they specifically have in common, after the fall of Iraq, is their hostility toward Syria

    I've mentioned on several occasions in this column a study of the cabal that appeared in 1996, entitled "Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm." It contains a call for removing the Saddam Hussein regime, followed by attacking Syria and finding an alternative to Yasser Arafat.

    This study became the Bush administration's policy after 11 September 2001. Since the part related to Iraq has been achieved, the cabal is now working to implement the portion concerning Syria.

    Iran remains a final goal, but Iran is very strong and the US needs to isolate all of its allies (such as Syria) and disarm them (such as Hezbollah), before taking on the Islamic Republic.

    The study called on Israel to ally with Turkey and Iran and strike at Syria through Lebanon, just as Wurmser has written time and time again calling for joint US-Israeli efforts against Syria. Wurmser repeated this call in 2000

    Whatever I say about Wurmser isn't sufficient to describe how dangerous he is for the Palestinians, Syria and every Arab country. He's absolutely Israeli; he wants the US to wage Israel's wars in the Middle East. Wurmser's name has been linked to the Office of Special Plans, which Douglas Feith at the Pentagon created to shape intelligence supporting a war against Iraq when the intelligence organizations failed to provide the necessary lies. Wurmser worked as an advisor to John Bolton at the Pentagon and the two try to outdo each other in peddling lies about Syria and inciting the Bush administration against it. Bolton moved to the United Nations, where Bush appointed him Washington's ambassador in the face of congressional opposition, and during its summer recess. Wurmser, meanwhile, moved to Dick Cheney's office and both continued to spread their poison against Arabs and Muslims. Iraq was one step, and Syria was another. The cause is Israel and how it can dominate the region in the face of a huge majority of peoples that the cabal is trying to strip of their independence.

    I hope readers appreciate the fact that I'm not exaggerating, because it is difficult to exaggerate the danger posed by an Israeli apologist like Wurmser to Arab interests. The older study called specifically for striking Syria, Iran, and Hezbollah, and proposed that the US help Israel. The cabal has changed nothing of this policy; instead it encouraged the bringing down of the Saddam Hussein regime. All of Wurmser, Perle and Feith's statements since the 1990s until the present have repeated these same positions.

    There is no difference between Netanyahu or Wurmser being Cheney's adviser. If there's any hope of ridding ourselves of the danger of the vice president and his advisers, it lies in the investigation by special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald into the leaking of CIA agent Valerie Plame's name to the media, to exact revenge against her husband, Joseph Wilson, who returned from Niger to say that reports of Iraqi attempts to purchase uranium yellow cake were trumped up.

    We know that the investigation has gotten rid of Libby and threatens the position of Karl Rove, Bush's adviser or "brain." However, I read that the special prosecutor is interested in the role of Wurmser, who has agreed to provide information in order to protect himself. There's also suspicion that he and Bolton leaked Plame's name when the former was the latter's adviser at the Pentagon, and that the leak took place thanks to advice "from above."

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:28am

76. Any questions about WTC 7 were answered by the owner himself when he confessed to ordering that the building be demolished on PBS:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7750532340306101329&q=silverste in&hl=en

    When you have the man himself admitting on camera that he ordered the towers be "pulled" (down), it's GAMEOVERVILLE.

    Any demolitions expert will tell you that the building had to have been pre-wired weeks earlier - and it had to have been done secretively as well.

    Unless we are all just supposed to shut off our collective ability to reason, there is only one conclusion that can be drawn.

    The man ordered that his building be prepared for demolition prior to 9/11 - and then ordered it to happen at 3:00 - and watched it drop into its own footprint successfully - as planned - at 5:00.

    There's really nothing left to question about the matter.

    He admitted it on camera - and you saw it fall on camera.

    CONSPIRACY FACT.

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:29am

77. RAYTHEON & 9/11 CONNECTIONS OVERVIEW:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/09/06/nbc-news-army-may-have-_n_28869 .html?p=2#comments

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:33am

78. The Media is in on the coverup…

    Talking Head Barry McCaffrey and his Raytheon Connections:

    Background

    Vertex Aerospace LLC, formerly Raytheon Aerospace LLC, was acquired by Veritas Capital, a private equity investment firm, in 2001. The company changed its name from Raytheon Aerospace LLC in June 2003, but Raytheon Company (its former parent) retains about a quarter of the company.

    Vertex Aerospace LLC has its headquarters in Madison, Miss. The company is considered one of the leaders in aviation and aerospace technical services, and its 6,300 employees operate in 42 states and 32 countries. About 95 percent of its sales are for the U.S. government, and its annual 2001 sales totaled about $500 million.

    From 1997 to 2002, Vertex Aerospace (then Raytheon Aerospace) received around $2.1 billion in U.S. government contracts.

    Former parent Raytheon, which maintains an interest in Vertex Aerospace, had more than 5,300 contracts with the U.S. government from 1990 through 2002 worth nearly $58.5 billion.

    Barry McCaffrey, a member of the board of directors, was on the advisory board of the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, a Washington lobbying group formed in October 2002 to increase public support for the war in Iraq. Richard Perle, who serves on the Defense Policy Board, a government-appointed group that advises the Pentagon, served on the same committee. Perle, who advised the Turkish government through his International Advisers Inc., also helped the Raytheon Company in attempts to sell its Patriot missiles to Turkey in the early 1990s. In June 1991, the Defense Department awarded Raytheon a $346.3 million modification to an existing contract, which included funding for 32 Patriot missiles for Turkey under a foreign military sale. Afghanistan contracts

    According to a list of Pentagon contracts, Vertex Aerospace has a contract for aircraft equipment maintenance and repair in Afghanistan worth nearly $7.4 million. Government ties

    According to chairman of the board Robert McKeon, the former government officials that work for Vertex or serve on its board offer "insight, not political connections or clout. They know what our customer, the Pentagon, needs and wants." Members of Vertex's board of directors who have government connections are indeed numerous.

    Director Richard Hawley, who spent 35 years with the U.S. Air Force, served as Air Combat Commander from 1996 to 1999 and the commander of the Allied Air Forces Central Europe and the U.S. Air Forces Europe from 1995 to 1996. He was a graduate of the U.S. Air Force Academy.

    Director Barry McCaffrey served as the head of the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy from 1996 to 2001. Prior to assuming his "drug czar" duties, McCaffrey had a long career with the military, culminating in his service as commander-in-chief of the U.S. Southern Command from 1994 to 1996. He graduated from the U.S. Military Academy. McCaffrey serves as a frequent media commentator on military matters, including the most recent Iraq war.

    DRUG CZAR = BUSH 41 EMPLOYEE

    BUSH 41 OWNS THE CIA.

    IT'S A PRIVATE COMPANY.

    SO IS THE FEDERAL RESERVE.

    SO IS THE IRS.

    http://www.publicintegrity.org/wow/bio.aspx?act=pro&ddlC=46

    Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 07:34am

79. I was at the demonstration, and what I found more interesting than the demonstration itself was the tiny, but very, very angry counter-demonstration set up outside the metro station near the Mall where the march began. This group consisted largely of middle-aged white men consumed with rage, one of whom was shouting "traitors" through a bullhorn. They had hung someone in effigy, but I couldn't tell if it was Saddam, Ted Kennedy, or Jane Fonda. As the dust settles from Bush's Iraq atrocity after the inevitable US bug-out, an important domestic question will be what to do with these people, the deluded Limbaugh and Fox News crowd. If you think they're angry now, just wait....

    Posted by chimpwatch at 01/28/2007 @ 08:18am

80. Maybe this belongs here too:

    JR, the right wingers are in Iraq and Afghanistan, fighting for the "American Empire" you so detest.....You know, the empire that makes it possible for you to blog your dissenting viewpoints so freely?

    Posted by DAVEBARLETT 01/27/2007 @ 10:58pm

    Maybe when Mohammed Atta wasn't meeting with Iraqi intelligence agents in praque he was actually working with Iraqis to steal my internet service. Or maybe the aluminum tubes that could never be used in a centrifuge were actually meant to steal words from the pipes of the internets. Perhaps the 23,000 liters of anthrax were actually going to be used in the Silicon Valley. How about the Niger forgeries? Maybe Chimp should have used his freedom to use "the Google" to find out the PM that signed the papers had been gone for years. Or maybe Saddams stockpile of nukes was really jut to be used to screw up the electro-magnetic fields so we could not argue at The Nation.

    More likely, all of those things you were frightened of were total BS and either never happened or never existed. Maybe your cute little war was based on false information, propaganda and fear of The Other.

    Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 09:43am

81. It is now 9:46 am Jan 28, 2007, do you know where Oasma Bin Laden is?

    Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 09:46am

82. SKEETJR

    Delusional Idiocy No. 1 – Invading Iraq Was Wrong

    The line you neo-cons peddled wasn't that Hussein stopped wanting WMDs but that he had them. To this end, the admininstration peddled such exaggerations as the Niger uranium story, the bioweapons lab story, the UAV story, etc. The ISG clearly states that Iraq ordered the destruction of WMDs in in 1991.

    Common sense dictates, and the ISG confirms, that there's no way a handful of inspectors, operating in a country the size of California, could uncover the OFF scandal or its use in bribing other countries and purchasing WMD-related items banned by the U.N.

    What the ISG says is that Hussein took advantage of the withdraw of UNSCOM inspectors prepartory to the Desert Fox strikes to bar their reentry. It is true that the US military build-up in 2002-3 compelled him to let UNMOVIC inspectors in but since the inspection regime was cut short by the invasion of Iraq, you can hardly say what the inspections would ultimately have found. It's useful to note that whenever UNMOVIC check out sites the the US said had WMD evidence, they found nothing.

    Iraq documentation captured during the invasion proved that Saddam was training thousands of foreign terrorists, known as the Feyadeen, who Saddam had ordered to attack U.S. interests.

    Flat-out wrong. The Fedayeen Saddam was an IRAQI force of politically-reliable irregulars whose job was to function as a politcally reliable force to be used domestically. It fought a guerilla campaign until the fall of Baghdad when it collapsed, with many of its members joining other Sunni insurgencies.

    Delusional Idiocy No. 2 – We need to get out of Iraq now.

    The point is that al-Qaida wants us in Iraq as it provides a key recruitment plus for them. In fact, a letter to Zarqawi that was captured after his killing stated that "prolonging the war in Iraq is in our interest."

    Based on Al Qaeda information captured in Iraq, Al Qaeda's strategy is to spark a civil war, which will cause the U.S. to retreat from Iraq. They've developed this strategy, knowing they can never defeat the U.S. militarily but can do so politically. In other words, both Al Qaeda knows and we know that guerilla wars, like the one that Al Qaeda is waging in Iraq, is 80% political and 20% military.

    At most, 10% of the people fighting in Iraq are foreigners. The sectarian strike is overwhelming the work of Iraqis on both sides. The fact that al-Qaida applauds this development doesn't change that. This isn't a struggle against an international terror network, it is a fight against Iraqi insurgents and it is a civil war that US forces are stuck in the middle of.

    Al Qaeda will press ahead with their chief goal: attacking us here in our own country and anywhere we have interests. The insurgent terrorists in Iraq will attack with increased ferocity to bring down the only democratic government that Iraq has known and make the country a safe haven, from which Al Qaeda can recruit and train terrorists.

    The Sunni insurgents don't have anything like the power to bring down the government. They can deny it's writ in Anbar and parts of Baghdad but that's about it. Further, the US presence in Iraq is what galvanizes many Iraqis. It's will be much harder to recruit people for anything except fighting other Iraqis without a US occupation.

    Finally, very few people are actually stating "get out now", so that's a straw man. The Iraq Study Group and the International Crisis Group reports, for example, talk about a phased withdrawal in tandem with efforts at a political solution involving the US Security Council members and Iraq's neighboring states.

    The war on terror is either exaggerated or unnecessary

    Another straw man. I doubt that you'll find many people who have said that. The point is that Iraq was a harmful strategic diversion from necessary actions such as Afghanistan, where the administration's neglect has permitted not only the Taliban to regroup but possibly al-Qaida.

    Terrorism is a guerilla war that is not limited to just one country but several. So, not only can you fight a war against terrorism, you should, since not fighting it only encourages terrorist attack.

    Terrorism is not a guerilla war but a form of organized political criminal activity. It can require a military solution, as in Afghanistan, but stamping it out is no more a "war" then dealing with drug cartels.

    The World Trade Center bombing (1993); Khobar Towers bombing; the Kenyan Embassy bombings; the U.S.S Cole bombing; the attempted millenial bombing in Los Angeles; 911; the attempted bombing of an airliner by the "shoe bomber;" the capture of Jose Padilla, an Al Qaeda operative who was charged with developing a dirty bomb; the Bali bombing, the Madrid Train bombing; the Chechen terrorist attack on a Russian school; terrorist attacks in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia; the bombing of the London subway, the attempt to bomb multiple planes flying over the Atlantic (which was foiled by British authorities) the attempt to fly an airplane into the tallest building in Los Angeles

    Your attempt to wind these up into a single struggle only shows how out of touch you are. The 1993 bombing was a free-lance act organized by Ramzi Yousef, who didn't establish links with bin-Laden until afterwards. Padilla's indictment actually doesn't mention the "dirty bomb" plot at all. The Chechens may have al-Qaida partisans but the leadership and fighters are overwhemingly Chechen nationalists and the origins of the struggle are based on local concerns, not international plotting. The Khobar Towers bombing was done by Saudi Hezbollah, a Shi'ite organization not likely to be tied to the Sunni al-Qaida.

    Posted by brunowe at 01/28/2007 @ 09:47am

83. Not only can't the wingnuts march on Washington in favor of their war, as can be seen here, they are unwilling to march to Baghdad.

    Dave, Sliver, Maasch, Rio and Skeetr, the CPT is a recruiter (allegedly). Ask him to post his duty station and all of you can run down and enlist.

    Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 09:53am

84. SkeetrJ, 18 resolutions? Wow, that's pretty bad. But no where near another country. This country actually has massive stockpiles of nookyoolar bombs, tens of thousands of liters of chemical and biological agents. They have invaded neighboring countries and continue to occupy lands owned by other nations and peoples. Some of their leaders have been war criminals. They have at least 68, count em, 68, violations of UN resolutions.

    Can you name this country? When are we invading to bring peace to the ME? This country is not Iran, but can you tell me why Halliburton continues to do business with Achminijad? All the while hiding the profits in the Cayman Islands? Same with Bechtel, and many other giant US companies.

    You are right about the OLD connections between the "left" and communism. But, guess who champions Communism now? That would be your friends on the right. MFN status for china and Vietnam. They, and I bet you, support the crackdown on Christians in China.

    Good job Brunowe. But alas, i fear fear is what drives these poor souls, laying out facts does nothing to assuage the fear of the non-existent threat from Saddam Hussein, Dick Cheneys former business partner.

    http://tinyurl.com/28ekv5

    Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 10:11am

85. i will ask again, how many new, stable, functioning democracies have been established in the Midle Eat since March 2003?

    Answer: None.

    Has Islamic terrorism been quelled, stopped, lessoned since March 2003?

    Answer: No.

    How many leftists have bombed federal buildings, medical facilities or gunned down fedeeral agents since the 1980's?

    answer: None.

    How many rightwingers have bombed federal buildings, medical facilities and Olympic venues or gunned down federal agents?

    Answer: several.

    what was the response when America declared war on a rightwingnut that shot federal agents?

    answer: outrage and the killing of 168 people, an attack on a child care facility.

    amount given to the victims of a rightwingnut attack on a childcare facility/federal building?

    Answer: Squat.

    amount given to the victims of the Bin Laden family, many of whom were rich beyond your wildest dreams already? paid from your tax dollars.

    Answer: millions. billions?

    Number of Iraqis involved in 9/11?

    Answer: zero

    Number of Saudis involved?

    Answer: 15

    Connections between the Bush family, the Saudi guvt and the Bin Laden family?

    answer: deep and long.

    Number of lives saved by killing Saddam Hussein?

    answer: zero

    number killed after the invasion of Iraq?

    Answer: 600,000.

    the "right" has fought to keep the 60's and 70's from returning for decades now, but by their actions hey have brought it all back again. Incompetence is the rule, not the exception.

    Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 10:34am

86. Yes. I'm glad you and Plunger are so assiduous in your efforts.

    By the way, Jacquelyn Mitchard's fiction and Jon Krakauer's non-fiction accounts of Mormon culture are useful tools to prevent, by analogous comparison, prejudice against Hebrews, while still being anti-Zionist and anti-superstition, IMHO.

    Posted by lewwelge at 01/28/2007 @ 10:36am

87. Posted by LEWWELGE 01/28/2007 @ 10:36am

    LEW, what's your take on the....Jesuits?

    Posted by Mask at 01/28/2007 @ 10:40am

88. In three days...

    1. Congress overwhelmed by the turnout this weekend, ends its joking around and comes up with a BINDING resolution, or more important defense appropriations bill....and ATLEAST stops the "Surge" from continueing.

    2. Nothing. A meaningless non-binding resolution and more talk until some important domestic issue comes up to take Iraq off the radar for a bit more...and then we're into the 2008 Primary Season.

    3. Something inbetween? If so...what?

    Left, Right, or Middle....a simple poll amongst "Nation" bloggers...which do you think will happen?

    Posted by Mask at 01/28/2007 @ 10:43am

89. You guys missed the point: 64% of Americans think the Congress is doing too little to restrain Bush.

    That means that a) a supermajority of the American public wants Bush put on a leash and his war ended and that b) the Democrat leadership is too weak and sold out.

    Posted by ZERO 01/27/2007 @ 11:24pm

    One of the most peculiar pretenses still making the rounds is that a Democrat has to project a diluted version of Bush's aggressive imperialist ambitions to get elected President. They're just making excuses for a variety of different Democratic politicians who know damned well that's bogus but they maintain a pretense of believing that because they implicitly share in those aggressive imperialist ambitions.

    . . according to the latest NEWSWEEK Poll. The president's approval ratings are at their lowest point in the poll's history--30 percent--and more than half the country (58 percent) say they wish the Bush presidency were simply over, a sentiment that is almost unanimous among Democrats (86 percent), and is shared by a clear majority (59 percent) of independents and even one in five (21 percent) Republicans. Half (49 percent) of all registered voters would rather see a Democrat elected president in 2008, compared to just 28 percent who'd prefer the GOP to remain in the White House.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16840614/site/newsweek/

    Posted by fromredbird at 01/28/2007 @ 11:07am

90. Posted by CHIMPWATCH 01/28/2007 @ 08:18am

    what I found more interesting than the demonstration itself was the tiny, but very, very angry counter-demonstration set up outside the metro station near the Mall where the march began. This group consisted largely of middle-aged white men consumed with rage, one of whom was shouting "traitors" through a bullhorn.

    Very observant of you CW. These are the folks I call the face painters. You've seen their types on TV at NFL games hanging out of the stands screaming their support for the losing team.

    They believe that politics is somehow like sports. If you paint your face really mean, and maybe your really fat belly too, and scream at the top of your lungs then your team will win no matter how poorly they play.

    Well, at least part of the 30% that still support the chimp/chump are the Neo-Nut face painters that would still support this moron president if he stole babies from mothers' arms, ripped off their heads and drank their blood.

    Seems to me that CPA, Rio Wacko, Muusch for brains and others here fit the category of face painters. They continue to think "If we scream real loud, we'll be right". "Yeah, we'll scream real loud. They'll see, if we scream real loud, we'll be right(wing whacko's)."

    Keep screaming face painters, fewer and fewer people are listening.

    "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time and your government when it deserves it." Mark Twain

    Posted by COProgressive at 01/28/2007 @ 12:06pm

91. Oh, I forgot again,

    Over five years now...

    got bin laden?

    Posted by COProgressive at 01/28/2007 @ 12:08pm

92. Posted by ZERO 01/28/2007 @ 11:47am

    Posted by ZERO 01/28/2007 @ 11:50am

    It's clear that we only get to elect the candidates who are first selected by a combination of the news media and supermoney. The only thing that will ever offset that is development of a long term, grassroots voting bloc. Until that happens we're never going to get supermoney out of the hegemonic position it occupies as the gatekeeper of democracy.

    I suspected it before and I think it's becoming more evident now that Bush's surge was nothing more than a way to give Democrats who share his goals space to "centralize" on continuing the occupation that America wants to get out of.

    Posted by fromredbird at 01/28/2007 @ 12:09pm

93. crabby

    I am a Soldier..thats all

    Posted by CPT at 01/28/2007 @ 12:26pm

94. Taking another look- check out the huge "don't know" for which party is preferred:

    Now thinking ahead to the next presidential election? In general, would you rather see a Republican or a Democrat elected as our next president in 2008?

    Total preferences: Republican 28% Democrat 49% Other party 3% Don't Know 20%

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16829011/site/newsweek/

    18% of Republicans and 31% of Independents checked off "don't know". These people are ready for a new third party that would leave the LVLIBERTY1-style Republican Party a long-term minority party. That would mean there's even less reason for the Democrats to be a Republican-lite party. This poll is probably making the New Democrat/Democratic Leadership Conference soil it's pants.

    Posted by fromredbird at 01/28/2007 @ 12:36pm

95. would still support this moron president if he stole babies from mothers' arms, ripped off their heads and drank their blood.

    I think he sided against late-term abortion.

    It seems that you have no animosity towards the Dem leadership that also supports the President, while taking the fence-sitting position publicly. That was the point that alot of us were making about protests just being the same old, same old Church of Victimhood being trotted out every few years or so. With the same faces, screaming about the same injustices, pimping for cash to support these "National Coalitions" that in reality are not much more than a dusty fax machine sitting in a spare bedroom.

    If you or these protesters wanted to make real change, have Congress propose to stop the funding by drafting a written resolution. Put your money where your mouth is and sign on the dotted line. THAT is who these protestors should have been addressing yesterday. Bush already had a few protests in his honor.

    The Democratic leadership aren't stupid. If they knew that a pullout would go well and flowers would bloom again in the ME, they would have done that yesterday. They know that a pullout would make things worse and having their signature to that order wouldn't bode well for their chances of holding office in the future...and rightly so.

    Posted by Sliver at 01/28/2007 @ 12:42pm

96. Posted by ZERO 01/28/2007 @ 12:21am

    I agree that it's difficult to see how it's going to come about but things like universal healthcare and an America that isn't continually on the hunt for new conflict aren't considered radical by most Americans. They're also getting fed up with a system that they know is ruled by money.

    Those of us who want change need to focus on the basics, bring them up with everyone we come in contact with, support progressive candidates, and refuse to support candidates who are insufficiently progressive.

    Have to go now.

    Posted by fromredbird at 01/28/2007 @ 12:53pm

97. Fer chrissakes, RESE, give it a friggin' rest! Let somebody else talk, and stop jamming the comments section with extensive quotes from other sources. Stick to the subject. Are you even reading anybody else's comments??

    Posted by barnesgene at 01/28/2007 @ 1:03pm

98. I was at the peace march yesterday. You will always have fringies hanging out at these things (Socialists, anarchists, Palestinian advocates) and TERRIBLE geriatric musicians playing "Blowin' in the Wind" on their kazoos. Democracy is pretty messy, but a march still seems to be the only way to get people's attention.

    Two themes emerged that had a general consensus:

    (1) Impeach Bush for crimes to numerous to count.

    (2) Congress, do what we voted you to do: End the war now by unfunding it.

    That's why everyone came out. They didn't come there to validate the fringies' agendas, so let's not get off the track and talk about the crazies.

    Posted by barnesgene at 01/28/2007 @ 1:13pm

99. Also, for the stay-at-home poster who proclaimed that the women at the peace march were ugly, sorry, pal, the young and the pretty were there too, and too numerous to count. You see on TV what you want to see.

    Posted by barnesgene at 01/28/2007 @ 1:20pm

100. "Posted by BARNESGENE 01/28/2007 @ 1:13pm "

     I tend to agree with your assement as to the intentions of the marchers..

     ..but what is to be concluded from the puny and pathetic turn out if the issue(anti Iraq war) is big enough to turn out a ruling majority from congressional power. The issue should have generated a massive turn out..there are enough people in Maryland and Virgina alone to clog the strees..no counting the variuous groups of unemployed loons who always attend these outings

     Or is it the reality, that the repubs were fired more than progressives and their agenda hired? In other words, maybe there are only a few fringe group who support the marchers and their views after all?

     Posted by john maasch at 01/28/2007 @ 1:25pm

101. ". That would include Jimmy Carter, even, a former US president. Is Carter a "crazy"?

     NO, just dillusional and silly....his presidency would have been better off building houses for the homeless since he help create so many of them, instead of destroying foriegn policy.

     Posted by john maasch at 01/28/2007 @ 1:27pm

102. This is the 30% in a nutshell: from the RNC website "- In Case You Missed It: Bush SOTU Speech Exceeded Expectations "

     Set the bar on the ground, then rejoice when a chimp finds his way over it.

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 1:47pm

103. "what I found more interesting than the demonstration itself was the tiny, but very, very angry counter-demonstration set up outside the metro station near the Mall where the march began. This group consisted largely of middle-aged white men consumed with rage, one of whom was shouting "traitors" through a bullhorn."

     Was anybody able to spot the true patriots, Ollie North, Liddy or the former legal counsel for Marc Rich in the crowd?

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 1:51pm

104. Sliver.

     Let me get serious again. You're right about the Dem Congress and they being timid, to say the least, about addressing ending this war.

     Over the last 5 years the American people have been told, and now somewhat believe, that America is a conservative nation. We have been told that to not support the president is Un-American. We have been told that to not support the president is to not support the troops. We have been told that we were attacked and we must fight back or we are cowards.

     Now the American people are seeing things in a new light. They (we) have decided that no matter what we have been told, our own logic has told us that we are going in the wrong direction. They (we) are starting to see that there are others who feel the same way and have made their (our) sentiments heard by all November 7th that they (we) want a new direction for this country.

     The majority of the people of America realize we have needlessly stuck our collective fist into a hornets nest called Iraq. Do we just keep smashing our fist around antagonizing them, or do we remove it and allow the hornets nest to calm itself down in its own good time.

     Yes, the congress is still timid. But it has been shown time and time again that if the people lead, the leader must follow. Deep down in every American there still is the belief that we are a country run by the people. Most people are too busy living their lives to pay much attention to the daily hubbub of our government until something goes out of line. Slowly the great number of everyday Americans start to raise their heads and start to take notice. They start to see that there is something wrong. They start to take notice and they start to see that something must be done.

     The march in Washington as well as other marches and gatherings elsewhere around the country may have been attended by the outspoken non-timid, yes and even some of our face painters, but as that little belief deep down start to rise and "We the People" will let our government know that "We" run the country. And as more and more people start to use their good sense, more and more good Americans will see that dissenting isn't Un-American and that dissenting doesn't mean not supporting the troops.

     It means that "We" are being taken in a direction "We" chose not to go.

     If congress is smart they will start to support the will of "We the People".

     The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone.

     James Madison

     Posted by COProgressive at 01/28/2007 @ 2:04pm

105. Crab,

     I don't think conservatives spend much time in the streets, except a few of the religious nuts,...the bulk are working and remain silent...as in silent majority.

     Posted by john maasch at 01/28/2007 @ 2:05pm

106. Posted by JOHN MAASCH 01/28/2007 @ 1:25pm | ignore this person

     There goes the bad-ass blunderbuss again, trying to make American apathy out to be a monumental thumbs-up to the warmongers. MAASCH, do you too believe the phantoms and bugaboos are out there to get you? That Iran, Venezuela, Syria, Bolivia or any other nation who's government you don't agree with (based on zero knowledge of said places) would be crazier than the rascals in the White House, dreaming their atomic dreams based on inventions and completely exaggerated nightmares, and decide to commit suicide by attacking you? America has becom so pathological in its fear of EVERYTHING that it can't even distinguish real from unreal, outlandish lie from Hollywood feature.

     You guys deserve what you have coming in the form of RFIDs in everything, national identity cards, cameras on every corner, tapped phones, radars following you 24/7 and fear to even think anything not sanctioned by your freedom-loving leaders. You've turned a small groupo of rapscallion Al-Qaeda nuts into one of the world's most popular bands, despite the fact that they can't sing and don't have any instruments. The wave of fear and panic in reaction to a few terrorist acts has proven to be more catastrophic than anything that happened in NY, DC, Madrid or London. Go watch 24 and be suspicious of everyone you encounter in life. And be sure to believe and listen to everything they tell you in order to survive, since surely the USA is only minutes away from being pulverized. More Americans believe in ghosts than believe in God. What does this say about your supposed enlightenment?

     Posted by chimichenga at 01/28/2007 @ 2:11pm

107. John,

     I'm sure you meant to say silent minority?

     Posted by COProgressive at 01/28/2007 @ 2:13pm

108. I guess all ya'll that despise "the left" as anti-troop have failed to notice the veterans groups in the protest. Have you noticed who has joined your definition of "the left"? here is a short list.

     Pat Buchanon

     General Wesley Clark, former Supreme Commander of Nato

     Former Secretary of the Navy under Reagan, graduate of the US Naval Academy, Jim Webb

     Former Director of National Security Agency, member of the Military Intelligence Hall of Fame, General Odom

     Lt. Gen. Bernard Trainor

     Lt. Gen. Greg Newbold

     Of course there is Zinni and Shinseki, and the Army College of War recognized the futility of this war back in 03.

     the left is truly insidious, managing to turn these men into America hatin', anti-military traitors.

     Isn't it great to be a part of such a powerful group?

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 2:17pm

109. silent majority.

     Posted by JOHN MAASCH 01/28/2007 @ 2:05pm

     Let me sing you a song of the silent majority. Here in my twp the republican council decided to undo the farmer forefathers zoning regs. The new regs allow the new farmers to sell off their land at will, regardless of the impact on our schools, fire and police dept, let alone the water in our myriad lakes and streams. (It also means selling to liberals from Ann Arbor, thereby altering the political makeup of the twp over time, ruining the repub majority. But when that is pointed out the repubs get all red in the face.)

     when it was learned that this was going to happen, the populace rose up. At the 1st public hearing the opposition the the repub plan was 8-1 against the new changes. We were told we were the "vocal minority", that those that were in favor of the changes stayed home because there was no reason for them to come out to express support. It was a given that if they didn't show they were in favor of the boards policy, a "silent majority". So, they held a second hearing, calling for support. At this hearing the opposition was 6-1 against. Again, we were told we were the "vocal minority". They passed the new zoning law.

     So we held a referendum and kicked their ass. In an overwhelmingly repub area we won a land use election, to preserve open space, by a 2-1 margin. Of course the repubes spread lies and distortions about us and what the referendum would do (drive farmers out of business. They broke election laws and violated federal law by using mailboxes to distribute literature without postage). But we still won.

     Now, we were the "tyranny of the majority". The board overturned the election.

     when I pointed out at a planning comm hearing that we had men and women fighting to preserve democracy, 3 days later I was given a zoning violation notice for having a licensed, insured vehicle parked in my orchard. to wit "creating a blight". Never mind that my neighbor has junk cars and an abandoned 1/8 finished house on his property.

     so, a "silent majority" is the grasping at straws of those that cannot turn out their side, because their side is NOT the majority. Just like the "moral majority".

     70+% think Chimpy is doing a poor job. THAT is a majority.

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 2:38pm

110. You've turned a small groupo of rapscallion Al-Qaeda nuts into one of the world's most popular bands, despite the fact that they can't sing and don't have any instruments.Posted by CHIMICHENGA 01/28/2007 @ 2:11pm

     BUWAHAHAHAHA..HAR!.

     good one, Chimi.

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 2:44pm

111. CPT, RIO...much like the Imperial Germans in 1917, who think "one more surge" and the Von Schlieffen Plan will come to fruition.

     Posted by Mask at 01/28/2007 @ 2:47pm

112. dear nation it is impertinent to talk against the war. how many democrats voted/authorized the war, too many. pl tell them to resign their seats, for the wrong vote. how many democrats still support war through a non-binding resolution, too many, tell them to resign. how many people voted in 2004 to re-elect bush to continue the war over 51%, the people of usa brought the war onto themselves. will democrats stop funding for war, no. will they investigate the wrong doings of the current goverment, no. bush sounds more honest than democrats and the people, when he talks about war. democrats will show us a game of tennis, mcenroe against connors and work for prize of presidency in 2008, and will do nothing other than cheap talk. congratulations on watching a great game and political circus, presidency and congress is a representative of people, we get waht we deserve. sherrod brown after winning election wants to occupy iraq for 18 months, while bush wants for 24, bipartrisan congress of the democrats will do it for 21, in the middle. Let us demonstrate against the war after 21 months, in sept 2008. arun misra

     Posted by misrausa at 01/28/2007 @ 3:38pm

113. Posted by MASK 01/28/2007 @ 2:47pm | ignore this pers

     As opposed to people like yourself who believe that Iran SHOULD be allowed nukes because they are not "suicidal" lolol

     Truly funny

     Posted by CPT at 01/28/2007 @ 3:50pm

114. You've turned a small groupo of rapscallion Al-Qaeda nuts into one of the world's most popular bands, despite the fact that they can't sing and don't have any instruments.Posted by CHIMICHENGA 01/28/2007 @ 2:11pm

     BUWAHAHAHAHA..HAR!.

     good one, Chimi.

     Posted by CRABWALK 01/28/2007 @ 2:44pm | ignore this person

     CRABWALK

     Hey foolish one....were you born AFTER 911??????? Exactly what happened that day????

     Do you remember the damage and cost in lives??????????????

     Its great that you laugh at that simple band, like AQ.....it was PRECISELY that kind of thinking that ENABLED 911 to occur.

     What a dopey statement...and your side is the enlightened side???

     BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...HAR!!!!!!

     Posted by CPT at 01/28/2007 @ 4:10pm

115. Posted by BRUNOWE 01/28/2007 @ 09:47am

     Posted by CRABWALK 01/28/2007 @ 10:34am

     Bravo......

     Posted by leftofcenter at 01/28/2007 @ 4:25pm

116. Thank goodness this article mentions We the People are the deciders!!!

     Just days ago, I sent the following to Pelosi, Durbin, Kucinich (my wise brave hero), Clinton, Conyers (hero), Obama, Boxer (hero), Feinstein, D.K.Davis... Please go to www.senate.gov and www.house.gov to get contact info. Here it is with intended redundance of We the People:

     Please note the following document, The Constitution of the United States says "We the People", not the Congress nor the President establish the Constitution, the highest laws of the land.

     This Constitution of We the People gives Congress the power to declare war and provide for the military and gives the president the power of commander-in-chief. Therefore, Congress should be able to withdraw consent for war, that is end the war, and deny the budget for military expansion, and those who giveth power have the power to taketh away the power of the commander-in -chief. He is the servant of We the People and derives his powers from We the People. We the People find him incompetent, corrupt, and abusive of power. The president is not the sole decider, as this current usurper tries to convince the ignorant.

     We the People will not tolerate a dictator and the Constitution of We the People guards against this kind of tyrant and law breaker. The importance of impeachment is so great that it is given an entire section of its own. This president and his vice president have, beyond any doubt of a reasonable person, met the requirements for this section regarding impeachment. Therefore, We the People, insist the demands of the Constitution be met. The writers of the Constitution made explicit in the document of We the People, from which all power of the legislature has come, those in executive office must not abuse power, and are not above the law of We the People. The Constitution, in the name of We the People, in my name, and all the citizens and voters and inhabitants of this nation, demands, not asks you, Congress, to do your constitutional duty. In case you have forgotten, I have provided below, those parts of the Constitution for you to review.

     This executive usurper has already premeditated doing impeachable acts, therefore, he demanded appointment of his own loyalist as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, who the Constitution assigns to preside over the Senate in his impeachment. This offensive usurper is now calling for the resignation of U.S. Attorney's to prevent the indictment or prosecution of his loyalists who are guilty of corruption. His vice president has slipped into bills, which have become law, the outrageous pardoning of the president, vice president and all those collaborators and actors of corruption and abuse of power acting after 9/11/2001.

     We the People have given the Congress the power and obligation to stop this abuse and corruption. We the People demand by our Constitution for Congress to do its duty. November 7, 2007 over the enormous corruption of elections by the GOP, like that done in Ohio in 2004 and in Florida in 2000, We the People have sent a message to Congress and the President, We the People do not approve of this president's agenda and policies and actions. Admit the mistakes of Congress to trust the word this unhonorable usurper and correct the mistakes.

     The Constitution of the United States of America

     We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

     Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States; To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water; To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years; To provide and maintain a navy; To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces; To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

     Section 4. The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

     Posted by Nationleslie at 01/28/2007 @ 4:46pm

117. ey foolish one....were you born AFTER 911??????? Exactly what happened that day????

     Do you remember the damage and cost in lives??????????????

     Its great that you laugh at that simple band, like AQ.....it was PRECISELY that kind of thinking that ENABLED 911 to occur.

     What a dopey statement...and your side is the enlightened side???

     BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...HAR!!!!!! CPT

     The carnage caused by mostly SAUDI extremists on 911 pales in comparison to the massive destruction that US foreign policy has unleashed upon the world. We are without a doubt the single greatest purveyor of terror, state or otherwise. Until we amend our ways we will continue to be vulnerable to such attacks, and no amount of millitary adventureism on behalf of the ruling elite will prevent this. Terrorism is a methodology, not an end- declaring war upon it is simply another half assed platitude meant to lull the sheep to sleep.

     Posted by entropy at 01/28/2007 @ 5:12pm

118. MAASCH I usually reluctantly respect the "business conservative" point of view as at least rational, even though not ultimately defensible in my worldview, but you cross over into absurdity and zealotry when you issue your faith based prognostications about the Iraq war. You also seem to have a great deal of disdain for the poor, and blame their condition solely upon personal shortcomings, while advertising your "wealth" and thinking that it is all because of your own personal triumphs. Both premises are false, as the intervening variables of life have much more to do with "success" than any inherent personal qualities.

     Also- Mispelling the names of people/ groups you disagree with is no clever or funny in any way. Typing "Hellsbolla" instead of Hezbollah, or "Armjihad" for Ahmadinejad simply makes you appear to be an ill informed buffoon, incapable of expressing your views without resorting to such peurile antics.

     Posted by entropy at 01/28/2007 @ 5:28pm

119. Posted by CPT 01/28/2007 @ 4:10pm

     CPT, i remember exactly where i was, what i was doing when those planes hit. Alqaida used our instruments against us, because they have none of their own. I have written before about how consumer groups wanted lockable/secure cockpit doors. they were told emphatically not to mess with the free mkt. 3000 people paid the price for that short sited viewpoint. I said out loud,"go get 'em!" But alas, we have taken our eye off the ball, run onto another ball field and accepted poor coaching and management.

     We are talking about Iraq here. Al Qaida in Iraq did not exist before march 2003. you know that. you also know no member of attas group was Iraqi or had anything to do with Hussein. You should know that the iraqi war has nothing to do with Al Qaida, except to act as a training ground.

     Answer me this question posed by your old boss: Are we killing or capturing terrorists at a greater rate than they are being "produced"? how do you propose to hunt down every last one? how much are you willing to spend to do it? How many are you willing to sacrifice?

     How much more American can it be to gather in the streets and offer up peaceful protest? Do they allow that in china, Cuba, Iran, N. Korea, Uzbekistan, or your retirement home, Turkmenistan?

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 6:18pm

120. And CPT, why do you have so little respect for your Generals?

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 6:20pm

121. The carnage caused by mostly SAUDI extremists on 911 pales in comparison to the massive destruction that US foreign policy has unleashed upon the world. We are without a doubt the single greatest purveyor of terror, state or otherwise. Until we amend our ways we will continue to be vulnerable to such attacks, and no amount of millitary adventureism on behalf of the ruling elite will prevent this. Terrorism is a methodology, not an end- declaring war upon it is simply another half assed platitude meant to lull the sheep to sleep.

     Posted by ENTROPY 01/28/2007 @ 5:12pm

     A couple of problems with this. First and foremost, could you provide us with some examples of this massively destructive US foreign policy? Before you start coming up with a list, though, I think a few things need to be kept in mind:

     1) Many of the actions you may list were performed during the Cold War, and it is likely that a decent portion of them were necessary in order to combat international Soviet influence, which I doubt anyone here could say is a good thing.

     2) None of the US' misdeeds in the past justifies terrorism, insofar as terrorism involves the deliberate and specific targeting of innocence.

     Second, I think it's silly to suggest that if we just left the rest of the world alone and guarded our own borders, terrorism would go away. Presumably, if there's some ongoing threat (which there clearly is, ie, al Qaeda exists as a meaningful entity), it would be much better to eliminate it at the source rather than just hope we can intercept every single terrorist who comes through our borders. Pulling out of the Middle East certainly won't eliminate terrorism, unless you're also suggesting we completely abandon Israel.

     Posted by Thrawn at 01/28/2007 @ 6:21pm

122. It was a massive demonstration in Washington... it took over 3 hours just to march around the Capitol. The mall was absolutely packed by the time of the rally. I've never before seen so many people at a rally, because I was just a little kid in the 60s (although apparently, I tagged along on a few.)

     After riding a bus 16 hours from Indiana, marching all day, then riding a bus 16 hours home the same night (I just got back,) I am dumbfounded to see the corporate media describing 'tens of thousands' and talking about how 'less showed up than the organizers expected.' Absolute, bald faced LIES. Don't believe it for one second... I wish I could post all of my pictures, but I couldn't have gotten an arial view for you anyway. Hopefully someone in a helecopter took a good photo - and will actually print it.

     Hundreds of thousands of people were there, from all over the country... and I suspect all over the world (I was approached by one reporter from London.) Doctors, lawyers, teachers, families with kids, union workers, families of deployed soldiers - everyone under the sun was there.

     It was a very proud day... felt good to walk by the Capitol and know that - whether they admit to it or not - Washington insiders saw the anger of the people today. We took it to the temple of democracy, and they saw us. They may lie about how many of us were there (so as not to encourage any more of us,) but they know the truth. And so do we. And every one of us who had a camera will spread our pictures around, and our stories - and our hope.

     Posted by feduphoosr at 01/28/2007 @ 6:25pm

123. good for you Feduphoosr!!

     Thank you.

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 6:27pm

124. I am dumbfounded to see the corporate media describing 'tens of thousands' and talking about how 'less showed up than the organizers expected.' Absolute, bald faced LIES.

     Posted by FEDUPHOOSR 01/28/2007 @ 6:25pm

     corporate media = conservative sleaze media

     They are one. They are the same

     Posted by Will C. at 01/28/2007 @ 6:28pm

125. Pulling out of the Middle East certainly won't eliminate terrorism, unless you're also suggesting we completely abandon Israel.

     Posted by THRAWN 01/28/2007 @ 6:21p

     That would be a good start.

     but you create a red herring argument. Few are calling for a complete withdrawal to only our borders. And i can think of no other country that meddles in the affairs of as many countries as the US. look at some of the fine people we have stood up, Pinochet, Hussein, The Shah, Batista, Nasriya, Mushareff. We have also stood behind some fine leaders, but we don't always choose wisely with a look toward the future. Mostly for short term benefit, often for corporate gain over human rights. Just think, pineapples and bananas were more important than peasants in guatemala.

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 6:34pm

126. Entropy,

     "Also- Mispelling the names of people/ groups you disagree with is no clever or funny in any way. Typing "Hellsbolla" instead of Hezbollah, or "Armjihad" for Ahmadinejad simply makes you appear to be an ill informed buffoon, incapable of expressing your views without resorting to such peurile antics"

     I respect your opinion even if I don't adhere or agree with your assesment of mine......as far as the spellings..I find a little ironic humor in them...

     perhaps you should address those here who spell names backwards, use rodents as verbs/nouns, use chimps, and a variety of name calling here...you might want to sweep this porch of trash before noticing your neighbors........

     Posted by john maasch at 01/28/2007 @ 6:36pm

127. Posted by CRABWALK 01/28/2007 @ 6:34pm

     Did you ever notice how the hamsters are bi-polar? The idea that we could enforce the UN resolutions pertaining to Israel and at the same time not abandon Israel is completely invisable to them.

     Their minds are incapable of perceiving that band of the spectrum

     Posted by Will C. at 01/28/2007 @ 6:37pm

128. Entropy,

     and this..

     " We are without a doubt the single greatest purveyor of terror, state or otherwise"

     Is madness on your part and from this you dilute your posts down to kook status...however, I believe you are brighter than this...

     Posted by john maasch at 01/28/2007 @ 6:39pm

129. perhaps you should address those here who spell names backwards, use rodents as verbs/nouns, use chimps, and a variety of name calling here...you might want to sweep this porch of trash before noticing your neighbors........

     Posted by JOHN MAASCH 01/28/2007 @ 6:36pm

     or... he might not want too

     Ha Ha Ha Ha

     Posted by Will C. at 01/28/2007 @ 6:39pm

130. Is madness on your part and from this you dilute your posts down to kook status...however, I believe you are brighter than this...

     Posted by JOHN MAASCH 01/28/2007 @ 6:39pm

     so we call it shock and awe instead of terrorism. The people on the receiving end are still terrified.

     Posted by Will C. at 01/28/2007 @ 6:41pm

131. "You should know that the iraqi war has nothing to do with Al Qaida, except to act as a training ground. "

     Is like saying New Mexico had nothing to do with Japan...it was only a training ground.

     Posted by john maasch at 01/28/2007 @ 6:41pm

132. and if they are conseratives, they are shitting their pants

     Posted by Will C. at 01/28/2007 @ 6:41pm

133. "It was a massive demonstration in Washington... it took over 3 hours just to march around the Capitol. The mall was absolutely packed by the time of the rally. I've never before seen so many people at a rally, because I was just a little kid in the 60s (although apparently, I tagged along on a few.)"

     Driving from downtown LA to the airport has the same effect...and has the same impact..

     Posted by john maasch at 01/28/2007 @ 6:43pm

134. Is like saying New Mexico had nothing to do with Japan...it was only a training ground.

     Posted by JOHN MAASCH 01/28/2007 @ 6:41pm

     new mexicans are training in japan.

     fascinating

     Posted by Will C. at 01/28/2007 @ 6:43pm

135. Driving from downtown LA to the airport has the same effect...and has the same impact..

     Posted by JOHN MAASCH 01/28/2007 @ 6:43pm

     except that walking burns off mantits

     Posted by Will C. at 01/28/2007 @ 6:44pm

136. Chimpy McFlightsuit, Worst POTUS ever. kept in power by the hamster elite, the repube party. hsuB, worst CEO president ever.

     did i leave anything out? Fascist warmongers? Witless drones?

     --Posted by CRABWALK 01/28/2007 @ 10:34am

     Bravo......

     Posted by LEFTOFCENTER 01/28/2007 @ 4:25p

     I went looking for what I done good, but I cannot find it.????

     Posted by WILL C. 01/28/2007 @ 6:37pm,

     Yes, although bi-polar is a very nice way of saying it. 68, Thats right, 68 violations of UN resolutions. what do they get? Mo money.

     How many countries does China occupy now? Are they not calling for the destruction of the Taiwanese democracy ? Duncan Hunter today pointed out that China is using our trade dollars to build a HUGE army, including using our dollars to build nukes. Good long range planning.

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 6:49pm

137. FED,

     "I am dumbfounded to see the corporate media describing 'tens of thousands' and talking about how 'less showed up than the organizers expected.' Absolute, bald faced LIES. Don't believe it for one second... I wish I could post all of my pictures, but I couldn't have gotten an arial view for you anyway. Hopefully someone in a helecopter took a good photo - and will actually print it. "

     Glad you enjoyed the bus trip...I don't think amyone has to lie about crowds...it is too easy to count using photographs and there is a mathamatical way of calculating heads quite accuratly..

     Do you realize Simon and Garfunkle as well as Garth Brooks drew over 5 times as many as your parade in Washington...5 times more people ..each...

     Your naiveté dumbfounds me..if you were a baby in the 60s that means you are around your 40s now and should know better..

     Posted by john maasch at 01/28/2007 @ 6:51pm

138. Posted by WILL C. 01/28/2007 @ 6:44pm

     Bad Will! Bad!.

     Perform Ten hail Mary Cheneys as penance.

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 6:51pm

139. I smell saw dust, and there fore, a TWOT(total wate of time)...off to dinner..I will turn this back over to Rese...

     Posted by john maasch at 01/28/2007 @ 6:54pm

140. Do you realize Simon and Garfunkle as well as Garth Brooks drew over 5 times as many as your parade in Washington...5 times more people ..each.

     I always laugh at comparisons to funstuff like concerts and sporting events. Do you honestly think someone would take a 30 hr bus ride for fun? To get that many people off their fat asses to go to DC is quite an accomplishment, I think. Especially in January, in DC. Thousands more make it to FT. Lauderdale to swill whisky and chase booty, should we call that real democracy? how about we become a country of swillers and chasers? oohh, too late.

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 6:56pm

141. Duncan Hunter today pointed out that China is using our trade dollars to build a HUGE army, including using our dollars to build nukes. Good long range planning.

     Posted by CRABWALK 01/28/2007 @ 6:49pm

     I've been saying for over a year now that the hamsters are selling us out to commie china. And as always the hamsters are the last to know.

     It'll be interesting to see if this flash of insight by hunter will disappear with the setting sun in hamsterland or will it be his first step on his trek back to liberalism.

     I for one am always happy to welcome a hamster back to reality.

     Posted by Will C. at 01/28/2007 @ 6:59pm

142. Of course at that point, he'd no longer be a hamster

     Posted by Will C. at 01/28/2007 @ 6:59pm

143. I will join John in that dinner idea, plus the stinkeye from the LW is burning a hole in the back of my head.

     Are we any closer to ending terrorism than we were in 2003?

     "I doubt that the journalists at the New York Times and NPR or at ABC or at CNN are going to ever admit just how wrong their negative pronouncements were over the past four weeks." (MSNBC's Joe Scarborough, 4/9/03)

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 7:00pm

144. "? To get that many people off their fat asses to go to DC is quite an accomplishment, I think."

     A 40 year old riding a bus to a demonstration? The demonstration was a sporting event for ol'Jesse, Jane, the 6 kooks from Congress, the Tim Robbins family...I wonder if they ate at a 5 star restaurant before they flew home on their G5s...waving at the guy getting on the bus....

     please...

     Posted by john maasch at 01/28/2007 @ 7:01pm

145. Posted by WILL C. 01/28/2007 @ 6:59pm

     Naked mole rat?

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 7:01pm

146. I smell saw dust, and there fore, a TWOT(total wate of time)...off to dinner..I will turn this back over to Rese...

     Posted by JOHN MAASCH 01/28/2007 @ 6:54pm

     Interesting. The smell of sawdust causes hamsters to flee.

     I hope al qaeda never figures that one out

     Posted by Will C. at 01/28/2007 @ 7:02pm

147. Posted by JOHN MAASCH 01/28/2007 @ 7:01pm

     "Now that the war in Iraq is all but over, should the people in Hollywood who opposed the president admit they were wrong?" (Fox News Channel's Alan Colmes, 4/25/03)

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 7:02pm

148. "Duncan Hunter today pointed out that China is using our trade dollars to build a HUGE army, including using our dollars to build nukes. Good long range planning. "

     They have always had a 200 million man army, but a far as long range planning? That came from Clintons and Loral group and the encrypting of rocket data and guidence systems leaping them 50 years forward...for campaaign contributions, of cource..

     Posted by john maasch at 01/28/2007 @ 7:04pm

149. dammit, i can't quit you boys.

     Interesting. The smell of sawdust causes hamsters to flee.

     What about the cedar shavings they reside in? Maybe that s the cause of the bi-polarity. They run and run on the wheel, but cannot escape the smell of free speech.

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 7:04pm

150. Off to a filet and a nice bottle of Pinot..

     Posted by john maasch at 01/28/2007 @ 7:05pm

151. Naked mole rat?

     Posted by CRABWALK 01/28/2007 @ 7:01pm

     It is a bedrock value of liberalism to keep the door open to all who would be free. Malice toward none, charity toward all I belive it was once phrased.

     It's not the hamster fault that they are mindless tools, slaves to an uninspiring dogma.

     Should they ever break the ties that bind them and willfuly step back into the light, they will be welcomed back as Americans

     Posted by Will C. at 01/28/2007 @ 7:06pm

152. Posted by JOHN MAASCH 01/28/2007 @ 7:04pm

     In case you missed it, that continues to this day.

     when you are in Taiwan, ask them what they think of the the Chinese quest to end their existence as a free country. and ask them to refund the money we spend in their defense. We wouldn't want any welfare going on.

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 7:07pm

153. That came from Clintons and Loral group and the encrypting of rocket data and guidence systems leaping them 50 years forward...for campaaign contributions, of cource..

     Posted by JOHN MAASCH 01/28/2007 @ 7:04pm

     and then you dummies sold them our industrial base to build them.

     Nice going slick.

     Posted by Will C. at 01/28/2007 @ 7:08pm

154. Off to a filet and a nice bottle of Pinot..

     Posted by JOHN MAASCH 01/28/2007 @ 7:05pm

     cool... maasch is getting sloshed again

     Posted by Will C. at 01/28/2007 @ 7:09pm

155. John, enjoy.

     mmmm, dead beast. Second only to the full leather interior of the Crabmobile. Medium rare, please. (Maybe your steak was cut by an illegal?)

     French pinot?

     Peace.

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/28/2007 @ 7:11pm

156. "It is a bedrock value of liberalism to keep the door open to all who would be free."

     This is true of true liberals, and there are few left in the country today,...but Will, you ain't no liberal, you are a simple kook thru and thru.. Take pride in that fact, as it is hard to do and you have mastered the art with a consistancy. You are a poster boy, along with Zero,and Fromdbirdshit. Pros.

     Posted by john maasch at 01/28/2007 @ 7:14pm

157. Crab,

     I am in Nashville,... the Pinot will be California and the steak Nebraska most likely...as far as illegals.....probably the grapes were picked and converted at Pelosi's non union illegals wineyard and the steak cut by one of Hagels illegals in a Nebraska stockyard.

     Why do you wonder?

     Piece.

     Posted by john maasch at 01/28/2007 @ 7:17pm

158. Crab,

     My rental car Cadillac does have leather seats, tho..19 MPG, too, even at 90 mph.

     Posted by john maasch at 01/28/2007 @ 7:18pm

159. Posted by JOHN MAASCH 01/28/2007 @ 7:14pm

     True, the great liberal center of america is a little thin these days. We can only credit that to the massive shift rightward in this country by those hamsters who would vapidly plung us into the abyss.

     As to your assertion that I am no liberal... what no supporting thesis? I'll tell you what, get sloshed and then come back and make your case.

     It'll be a hoot

     Posted by Will C. at 01/28/2007 @ 7:18pm

160. Wow, now that i am an official "registered" poster, the landscape is far less perilous to navigate minus the plethora of rese/plunger posts i can now ignore. I will side with Chomsky on this issue- i.e it is a waste of valuable effort to engage in 9/11 conspiracy debates, and it detracts from the goal of changing US foreign policy.

     Posted by entropy at 01/28/2007 @ 8:06pm

161. Posted by THRAWN 01/28/2007 @ 6:21pm could you provide us with some examples of this massively destructive US foreign policy? Before you start coming up with a list, though, I think a few things need to be kept in mind:

     1) Many of the actions you may list were performed during the Cold War, and it is likely that a decent portion of them were necessary in order to combat international Soviet influence, which I doubt anyone here could say is a good thing.

     Whether combating international Soviet influence was a good thing or not has nothing to do with the perception of the US in the eyes of the people of the ME.

     The nations of the ME have played off the West with the Soviets for years in an attempt to gain the most in terms of aid and military hardware and military support to the detriment of the people who live there.

     The unforeseen results of US and other countries foreign policies has exacerbated hatred of the US and the West as well as the actions of multinational corporations who have run rough shod over the area for the last 100 years.

     You may recall it was the US and others that supported and trained the Afghan mujahideen and armed them with Stinger missiles while they fought the Russians. It was our mujahideen that morphed into the Taliban. Who provided a safe haven for the Saudi al-Qaeda and we know what resulted from that. BTW, got bin Laden?

     2) None of the US' misdeeds in the past justifies terrorism, insofar as terrorism involves the deliberate and specific targeting of innocence.

     And being under the "Shock and Awe" in Baghdad isn't terrifying? Did the US not fire bomb Dresden and Tokyo? Were all those deaths just "Collateral Damage"? And the people in those cities were not terrorized? Get real.

     Second, I think it's silly to suggest that if we just left the rest of the world alone and guarded our own borders, terrorism would go away.

     You're right there. There is always the threat of another Oklahoma City bombing.

     It is when power is wedded to chronic fear that it becomes formidable. Eric Hoffer (1902 - 1983), The Passionate State of Mind, 1954

     Posted by COProgressive at 01/28/2007 @ 8:14pm

162. Hey, lay off on Maasch in regard to his alcohol consumption- I am quite certain that i am more innebriated than he, though i consume good ole cerveza, nectar of the masses.

     THRAWN- How does the fact that many of the US atrocities i mentioned were cold war related mitigate their severity? @ million dead in SE Asia is still @ mil. corpses on our hands regardless of our little competition with the soviets. The overthrow of the Arbenz gov in Guat., Allende in Chile, backing of Somoza in Nica, Support of Suhartos pogrom against the Indo commie party, Funding of the Mujahheddin in Afganistan, installation of the brutal trujillo regime in DR, firebombing of tokyo and dresden, nuking of hiroshima and nagasaki, and countless other US atrocities stand as evidence of our repeated criminality, regardless of the context of the trumped up cold war withn the soviets.

     Posted by entropy at 01/28/2007 @ 8:17pm

163. you beat my response coprog- agree with much of your analysis.

     Posted by entropy at 01/28/2007 @ 8:19pm

164. It makes a lot more sense to just put MUUSCH FOR BRAINS on the ignore list than to keep agonizing over his gross stupidity. He represents a bizarre interest group that has a next to nil chance of ever again having their dearest views and goals represented in American government for a very long time. That's usually what happens when Americans make the dumb mistake of giving them another chance to prove that they aren't utterly incompetent and self-destructive morons.

     Posted by fromredbird at 01/28/2007 @ 8:42pm

165. Wow, now that i am an official "registered" poster, the landscape is far less perilous to navigate minus the plethora of rese/plunger posts i can now ignore. I will side with Chomsky on this issue- i.e it is a waste of valuable effort to engage in 9/11 conspiracy debates, and it detracts from the goal of changing US foreign policy.

     Posted by ENTROPY 01/28/2007 @ 8:06pm

     Can we all assume that you buy the government's "9/11 Conspiracy Theory?"

     If you simply bury your head in the sand, the landscape will appear just as the globalists intend.

     Enjoy the darkness.

     Posted by plunger at 01/28/2007 @ 8:47pm

166. Regarding using the Iraq war as a smoke screen for the ultimate goal of attacking Iran, you should be aware that the USS Ronald Reagan (aircraft carrier) left San Diego two days ago for parts unknown. It had last been stationed in the Persian Gulf. I wonder where it is headed?

     Posted by Merryg at 01/28/2007 @ 9:59pm

167. Posted by COPROGRESSIVE 01/28/2007 @ 8:14pm

     Whether combating international Soviet influence was a good thing or not has nothing to do with the perception of the US in the eyes of the people of the ME.

     The nations of the ME have played off the West with the Soviets for years in an attempt to gain the most in terms of aid and military hardware and military support to the detriment of the people who live there.

     Contrary to your claims, these questions have everything to do with whether we were correct to challenge the Soviets in the Cold War. Your ability to criticize US decisions with regard to the Middle East during the Cold War is contingent on whether those actions could be justified in the larger context of the Cold War. As a result, that question does come to the forefront.

     As much as Entropy may describe a "trumped-up Cold War," the historical reality doesn't match that absurd claim in the least. Both the evidence that we had back then and evidence that's being obtained now makes it clear that expanding Soviet influence was a very serious concern, not just to the US, but also to democracy in general.

     Moreover, the example you provide is very telling:

     You may recall it was the US and others that supported and trained the Afghan mujahideen and armed them with Stinger missiles while they fought the Russians. It was our mujahideen that morphed into the Taliban. Who provided a safe haven for the Saudi al-Qaeda and we know what resulted from that.

     Hmm, the campaign in Afghanistan. I'm pretty sure that the result of this campaign was a defeat of the Soviet invasion force, which helped demoralize their military and contribute to their downfall. One significant mistake we made, though, was to just pull out of the country afterwards and leave it to its own devices. Because we did that, we left a power vacuum that the Taliban and their al Qaeda allies were all too eager to fill.

     And being under the "Shock and Awe" in Baghdad isn't terrifying? Did the US not fire bomb Dresden and Tokyo? Were all those deaths just "Collateral Damage"? And the people in those cities were not terrorized? Get real.

     The definition of terrorism isn't "are we scaring people?" Otherwise, Halloween would count as terrorism against innocent little children. Rather, terrorism necessarily consists of the deliberate targeting of innocent civilians to the exclusion of military personnel. To my memory, neither of these were pure civilian targets; Dresden was attacked because of its military significance in terms of military communications with German troops and the coordination of troop movements. Tokyo was firebombed with the intention of facilitating a surrender, against a population in which very little division between civilian and military actually existed.

     And then, this gem:

     Second, I think it's silly to suggest that if we just left the rest of the world alone and guarded our own borders, terrorism would go away.

     You're right there. There is always the threat of another Oklahoma City bombing.

     So in other words, al Qaeda doesn't really exist. Not only that, this argument would have to accept the premise that al Qaeda has been made substantially weaker since 9/11. Somehow, I doubt that's a claim you'll agree with.

     THRAWN- How does the fact that many of the US atrocities i mentioned were cold war related mitigate their severity? @ million dead in SE Asia is still @ mil. corpses on our hands regardless of our little competition with the soviets. The overthrow of the Arbenz gov in Guat., Allende in Chile, backing of Somoza in Nica, Support of Suhartos pogrom against the Indo commie party, Funding of the Mujahheddin in Afganistan, installation of the brutal trujillo regime in DR, firebombing of tokyo and dresden, nuking of hiroshima and nagasaki, and countless other US atrocities stand as evidence of our repeated criminality, regardless of the context of the trumped up cold war withn the soviets.

     Posted by ENTROPY 01/28/2007 @ 8:17pm

     I've already dealt with the "trumped-up Cold War" nonsense, and I think the question about whether the Cold War was justified (yes...) greatly influences how many US actions are understood morally. Many times, actors are confronted with a choice between the lesser of two evils, and I would argue that this is what many of the actions you mention are.

     Posted by Thrawn at 01/28/2007 @ 10:19pm

168. Posted by CPT 01/28/2007 @ 3:50pm

     CPT, you've brought up Iran and nukes before, and I guess I never asked you....

     So what the HELL is the Bush Admin. doing about it???

     Unless they follow through with the "Scott Ritter/RESE" plan and invade, which they can't given we're still waiting to secure Baghdad before we could DREAM of moving onto Teheran....nothing.

     Or is that the "Surge of '08"?

     Posted by Mask at 01/28/2007 @ 10:31pm

169. firebombing of tokyo and dresden, nuking of hiroshima and nagasaki, and countless other US atrocities stand as evidence of our repeated criminality, regardless of the context of the trumped up cold war withn the soviets.

     Posted by ENTROPY 01/28/2007 @ 8:17pm

     Uh THRAWN, you might also want to inform ENTROPY that Tokyo, Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki....

     were World War-II, not the Cold War.

     (Given the guy is probably a pacifist radical lefty, I'd skip mentioning that all of those were done by two men now considered the Founding Fathers of modern liberalism, BTW!)

     Posted by Mask at 01/28/2007 @ 10:34pm

170. (Given the guy is probably a pacifist radical lefty, I'd skip mentioning that all of those were done by two men now considered the Founding Fathers of modern liberalism, BTW!)

     Posted by MASK 01/28/2007 @ 10:34pm

     why is it given? Are you making shit up again?

     Posted by Will C. at 01/28/2007 @ 11:05pm

171. Posted by MASK 01/28/2007 @ 10:34pm

     Uh THRAWN, you might also want to inform ENTROPY that Tokyo, Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki....

     were World War-II, not the Cold War.

     Hmm, fair point. It seems fairly implicit in the response, but fair point nonetheless.

     (Given the guy is probably a pacifist radical lefty, I'd skip mentioning that all of those were done by two men now considered the Founding Fathers of modern liberalism, BTW!)

     Posted by MASK 01/28/2007 @ 10:34pm

     why is it given? Are you making shit up again?

     Posted by WILL C. 01/28/2007 @ 11:05pm

     I mean, it's probably a stretch to say that it's a given, but I don't think that it's that difficult of an inference to make either...

     Posted by Thrawn at 01/28/2007 @ 11:30pm

172. I mean, it's probably a stretch to say that it's a given, but I don't think that it's that difficult of an inference to make either...

     Posted by THRAWN 01/28/2007 @ 11:30pm

     you have to make your case first.

     then I can respond to the question.

     Posted by Will C. at 01/28/2007 @ 11:39pm

173. Posted by THRAWN 01/28/2007 @ 10:19pm

     Contrary to your claims, these questions have everything to do with whether we were correct to challenge the Soviets in the Cold War.

     Your reference to the Cold War is a Red (pardon the pun) Herring. At issue in this blog thread is the march in Washington to end the war in Iraq. Leading back to the war was how and why we became involved in it. Back from there was the invasion of Afghanistan and the (temporary) overthrow of the Taliban. Prior to that was the attack of 9/11 and prior to that, to shorten the history of the ME in this post, why we were attacked. It had nothing to do with the Cold War.

     The mindset in the ME has a long memory even if we in the US can't remember who won the Superbowl in 1998. Their collective hatred goes back for a millennia and a half and that is just the hatred among Muslims.

     They also still remember back 900 years to when the Infidels from Europe came to convert them to some other form of religion at the point of a sword.

     Then there was Genghis Khan and the Mongols. The Turks and their Ottoman Empire have breezed through the area as well. Jumping ahead to the British and American involvement in the area once oil was discovered and the British fleet switched to fuel oil for their warships.

     The area itself was a dynamic feudal and tribal area and in many areas the feudal and tribal rule remains. It was the British and the French that invaded and controlled the region in the early part of the last century. The British with their mania for mapmaking needed boarders to draw on their maps. So while the British and French controlled the area nations were created were none were before. The British and the French encountered the same insurgence that the US troops are seeing and were forced out of the region.

     It was the not learning from history that has gotten us into this mess. The two oilmen that run this country, along with the Neo-Nut world supremacist, believed Iraq to be a pushover. They thought the last great superpower on earth would be able to topple SH's government, which it did very well, we would be greeted as liberators, we would create a democracy in an Arab land, and we were told casualties would be minimal and the Iraq oil profits would pay for the 5 to 8 billion dollar war. With the exception of being able to topple SH's regime, the rest were all pipe dreams.

     I feel I'm working on my thesis rather then answering your convoluted pretzel logic, so I'll cut it short here.

     Second, I think it's silly to suggest that if we just left the rest of the world alone and guarded our own borders, terrorism would go away.

     You're right there. There is always the threat of another Oklahoma City bombing.

     So in other words, al Qaeda doesn't really exist. Not only that, this argument would have to accept the premise that al Qaeda has been made substantially weaker since 9/11. Somehow, I doubt that's a claim you'll agree with.

     al-Qaeda does exist, I never said it didn't. It was born out of the desire to remove the Western influence in the Arab region and to remove the "Infidels" from the Muslim holy lands. The unfortunate problem is that all that Multinational Oil Companies oil is under their sand. So, we must defeat al-Qaeda to get our oil back. Is al-Qaeda weaker now then before 9/11? I don't think so. Not with this administration invading an Arab country and setting out recruitment signs for them and giving them the opportunity to earn Masters Degrees in Insurgency.

     To refresh your memory, if we seal the boarders, let none of them damn foreigners in, we can still have terror attacks from home grown skinny white boys who hate their government as much as Timothy McVeigh and it's pretty juvenile to think otherwise. I thought you might be smarter than that.

     I'm sorry everyone for the long post.

     "Against logic there is no armor like ignorance." Lawrence J. Peter

     Posted by COProgressive at 01/29/2007 @ 12:07am

174. Got here to late, you beat me to it John! I see the relevent facts in truth has them all confused again, have a good week on the road!

     Posted by RIO BRAVO 01/29/2007 @ 12:04am

     So a 200 million man army scares the shit out of you doesn't it rio? That's not surprising. Just one question for you. How do you think they are going to get them here in any capacity other than fallout?

     Posted by Will C. at 01/29/2007 @ 12:10am

175. They will be marching west to the valley of meggido! Just ask your fellow carpenter since he will be there later.

     Posted by RIO BRAVO 01/29/2007 @ 12:26am

     Then I guess we have nothing to worry about do we? You can rest easy tonight little camper.

     but just to keep things interesting, why would the chinese march a 200 million man army to the state of Isreal. What would make them possibly give a shit about a piss ant little state that has absolutly nothing do with their country, their people or their interests?

     Posted by Will C. at 01/29/2007 @ 12:31am

176. Posted by COPROGRESSIVE 01/29/2007 @ 12:07am

     I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that the questions at hand have nothing to do with the Cold War, especially since al Qaeda's roots emerged from the mujahideen during the Soviet attempt to invade Afghanistan. Outside of the ancient history you cite, which incidentally does not at all involve the United States, there's only one bit of history other than the Cold War which seems relevant here (namely, the British and French empires), which also is one where our influence there was not uniquely significant. As such, the Cold War seems central to the discussion not only because it was a more immediate cause of al Qaeda, but also because it was the only time where the US had a unique level of involvement with the Middle East.

     It's also unclear how analogous the US and British occupation attempts really were, seeing as how one of these was attempting to reverse a brutal dictatorship and one of these was not.

     That aside, though, the Cold War is the only source of unique blame that people can point to with any legitimate connection to 9/11, and I would argue that many of the actions we took during that time were justified.

     al-Qaeda does exist, I never said it didn't. It was born out of the desire to remove the Western influence in the Arab region and to remove the "Infidels" from the Muslim holy lands. The unfortunate problem is that all that Multinational Oil Companies oil is under their sand. So, we must defeat al-Qaeda to get our oil back. Is al-Qaeda weaker now then before 9/11? I don't think so. Not with this administration invading an Arab country and setting out recruitment signs for them and giving them the opportunity to earn Masters Degrees in Insurgency.

     Here's the problem. I think it's apparent to pretty much everyone here that al Qaeda was a meaningful threat around the time of 9/11. If you're contending that al Qaeda has not seriously been weakened, then it follows that al Qaeda is still a meaningful threat.

     I then make the argument that defensive action is not enough, which means that I'm actually arguing that opposite of what you seem to pin me to. My point is precisely that sealing off the borders is not a good enough solution, and therefore that withdrawing from the Middle East (which would include abandoning Israel completely, a really dumb decision) will not be anything near adequate to combat terorrism. This, of course, is not to say that terrorism at home is never a threat, but rather to suggest that another terrorist threat exists that cannot be dealt with simply through domestic police investigations.

     Posted by Thrawn at 01/29/2007 @ 12:45am

177. "Duncan Hunter today pointed out that China is using our trade dollars to build a HUGE army, including using our dollars to build nukes. Good long range planning. "

     They have always had a 200 million man army, but a far as long range planning? That came from Clintons and Loral group and the encrypting of rocket data and guidence systems leaping them 50 years forward...for campaign contributions, of cource..

     Posted by JOHN MAASCH 01/28/2007 @ 7:04pm

     Got here to late, you beat me to it John! I see the relevent facts in truth has them all confused again, have a good week on the road!

     Posted by RIO BRAVO 01/29/2007 @ 12:04am

     You two guys, with your fairy tale hyperbole, are so in the dark it's pitiful. You and your primate-President never saw an israeli military technology transfer to israel that you didn't like. Next stop, Beijing.

     China on Friday hailed the development of its Jian-10 fighter jet, aircraft engines and air-to-air missiles as a sign it had soared into the top levels of aerospace defense technology.

     China "has become the world's fourth country that is capable of developing on its own advanced fighter planes, engines and missiles," Geng Ruguang, deputy general manager of China Aviation Industry Corp., was quoted as saying by the official Xinhua News Agency.

     Almost 20 years in development, the Jian-10 is a latest-generation multi-role fighter bomber believed to have been developed with Israeli help using the U.S. F-16 fighter as a template.

     http://tinyurl.com/yyu9bw

     Posted by fromredbird at 01/29/2007 @ 01:04am

178. The marching is going the other direction RIO BLOTTER ACID. An army of israeli technicians marching our military tecnology to israel for - - cash.

     Posted by fromredbird at 01/29/2007 @ 01:06am

179. MUUSCH FOR BRAINS and RIO BLOTTER ACID on ignore. Validated.

     Posted by fromredbird at 01/29/2007 @ 01:07am

180. Posted by THRAWN 01/29/2007 @ 12:45am

     I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that the questions at hand have nothing to do with the Cold War, especially since al Qaeda's roots emerged from the mujahideen during the Soviet attempt to invade Afghanistan.

     al Qaeda's roots did not emerge from the Mujahideen. They emerged as an independent Sunni organization rooted in the Gulf States to recruit Muslims to fight the soviets in Afghanistan. They did not emerge from the Mujahideen. They also couldn't give a shit about the cold war. Their stated goal then as it is now is to remove western powers from Muslim lands and they are staying true to their word. The cold war is over, the Soviet Union gone and they are still fighting to remove western powers from Muslim lands.

     Outside of the ancient history you cite, which incidentally does not at all involve the United States, there's only one bit of history other than the Cold War which seems relevant here (namely, the British and French empires), which also is one where our influence there was not uniquely significant. As such, the Cold War seems central to the discussion not only because it was a more immediate cause of al Qaeda, but also because it was the only time where the US had a unique level of involvement with the Middle East.

     That is ridiculous. You may as well say that al Qaeda has its roots in the southern confederacy. They were both fighting for the some reasons. They don't want our armies roaming around their neighborhood

     It's also unclear how analogous the US and British occupation attempts really were, seeing as how one of these was attempting to reverse a brutal dictatorship and one of these was not.

     Unclear eh? Then let me help clarify. Both put western powers in Muslim lands. Sound familiar?

     That aside, though, the Cold War is the only source of unique blame that people can point to with any legitimate connection to 9/11, and I would argue that many of the actions we took during that time were justified.

     Again, al Qaeda couldn't give a shit about the cold war. Their stated goal is to remove western powers from Muslim lands. That is something Muslims have been working at for around a thousand years. The cold war lasted a little over forty years.

     Here's the problem. I think it's apparent to pretty much everyone here that al Qaeda was a meaningful threat around the time of 9/11. If you're contending that al Qaeda has not seriously been weakened, then it follows that al Qaeda is still a meaningful threat.

     First of all define a meaningful threat? That sounds like one of those hamster terms that essentially means nothing but is used to generate petrifying, heart stopping, pants shitting fear in other hamsters.

     I then make the argument that defensive action is not enough, which means that I'm actually arguing that opposite of what you seem to pin me to. My point is precisely that sealing off the borders is not a good enough solution, and therefore that withdrawing from the Middle East (which would include abandoning Israel completely, a really dumb decision) will not be anything near adequate to combat terorrism. .

     Israel is part of Eucom not Centcom. Strategically we can withdraw our Centcom forces from the Middle East and Israel is still under the Eucom umbrella.

     This, of course, is not to say that terrorism at home is never a threat, but rather to suggest that another terrorist threat exists that cannot be dealt with simply through domestic police investigations.

     All criminal threats within the United States, to include terrorism, will be dealt with through police investigations. Overseas we have the option of using either military force or allowing our FBI to work with the internal security forces of the various nation states. Of course you hamsters have stupidly tied our hands by insisting that we only use military force overseas. Limiting our freedom to maneuver using the various agencies available to us was a bone headed move. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

     Posted by Will C. at 01/29/2007 @ 01:42am

181. Posted by WILL C. 01/29/2007 @ 01:42am

     Wondered where you've been Willie. You can't fool us. Come on fess up; you've been on the battery charger, haven't you? You should have got 'em to insert a new information chip before they unplugged you.

     Posted by lrjones4 at 01/29/2007 @ 04:05am

182. (when was the last time a gasbag like maasch spelunked the interior of his navel? or, for that matter, saw his own genitalia without the assistance of a hydraulic crane, to elevate his gut? and why is that fat, loud old men are the ones who cheerlead for horrible, violent and destructive conflicts - on other peoples' land? i'll never understand this aspect of humanity, the tie-in between sloth, laziness, obesity, and the cheering at poor people dying horrible violent deaths as if they are an inferior team in a sporting match.)

     Posted by ZERO 01/29/2007 @ 03:39a

     ZERO, this is a truly sublime account of truth embedded within poetic expression.

     Indeed, at times, there is no task more necessary than humiliating the tireless flatulence machine that is JOHN MAASCH. The next time the Bearded Lady of Omaha cites even the faintest shadow of a shred of evidence for his chauvinistic Bush-rimming nonsense absorbed without question from the depraved "thought leaders" in his hamster community will be the first time. It is hallmark of the most acute form of indoctrination to believe in some given thing for no reason at all, as if just thinking it phantasmically made it true, with the sureness of the belief inversely covarying with the utter lack of reason and evidence (i.e., less of the latter bizarrely occasioning more of the former). In this regard, a person who spent decades in a re-education camp could not be more pathetically brainwashed than MAASCH, the lowly tinker trying to sell usless shit to people who hold him in complete contempt.

     Aside from being abjectly brainwashed, completely and absolutely, the other thread that runs through all of MAASCH's puppyshit postings is the desperate need to posture as if he is better than someone else. Skim over them, if you have the stomach to deal with the stench, and see what I mean. He should just imbibe a case of Schlitz and drive (walking is out of the question) to Omaha's skid row and then rant from his car window about his "income" and "prestige" while waving 5 dollar bills (all he can afford) from his car window at bewildered bums on the street to affirm his towering "superiority" over them.

     It would be no less bizarre a spectacle than his appearences here where JOHN MAASCH regularly gets reamed by people infinitely superior to him in intellect, education, grasp of fact and argument, and form of expression -- all the while continuing to stick his tits in people's faces as if he is their equal and not Loman-like, boot licking detritus.

     Posted by Glenn Lemon at 01/29/2007 @ 08:41am

183. Posted by WILL C. 01/28/2007 @ 11:05pm

     Poor WILL, he would have been flummoxed if he hadn't found SOMETHING in this thread to disagree with me on....hehe.

     How about this, my young friend? ENTROPY included several incidents from WORLD WAR-II in his recitation of "Cold War atrocities by the United States".

     Now, I'll grant that pure historical ignorance doesn't indicate his politics, but I'd say it's a pretty good clue that he like lumping ANY war events into trying to make his point and therefore considers those incidents part of "American aggression".

     BTW, do YOU consider Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman.....war criminals?

     oops, wait...forgot...if you gave an opinion (for or against), you might piss off some of your "friends" here...my bad!

     Posted by Mask at 01/29/2007 @ 09:13am

184. Zero and Lemon head demonstrate the lefy loon kook section mind. Brilliant writings...and you wonder why you can't find the mainstream..thats because you are standing in the stream of your own urine boys, yup, pee'd down your pants and into your own shoes.....you are emotional misfits...you must be proud...when a lib job rants emotional rants like a school girl of 12 , the rest of the big boys can see we(the middle) have gotten through to the core of shallowness of your mind...you have been reduced to school yard name calliing. Congradulations...and your permanent seats in the kook section row 1 are secured, and yes, take a look at FROMBIRDSHITFORBRAINS,..you too, get the hat with the propeller on top...A RED ONE!!! ENJOY...hall of fame for sure...keep it up girls, you are doing just fine...keep posting...

     Posted by john maasch at 01/29/2007 @ 09:18am

185. Stop the ESCALATION of the war! Support our president to defeat the "Withdrawal" strategy. The withdrawal will lead to massive bloodshed and a wider regional war. The Democrats are pushing this plan so they can go in in 2008 and take over the whole Middle East. The Democrats are aiming to take all of the oilfoelds. They must be stopped!

     Posted by abell12ct at 01/29/2007 @ 09:44am

186. Posted by JOHN MAASCH 01/29/2007 @ 09:18am

     MAASCH,

     As you have -- predictably -- positioned yourself as in the "middle", explain. As part of the mainstream of self-hating Americans who lick the feces off preeening metrosexual pussy GW Bush's boots: Explain why you prefer to see further bloodstains on Americans. In Iraq: No dictator. No WMD. No 911 role and no alQ, at least before 2003. "Mission Accomplished". But no exit strategy. About 1 billion USDs a week plus the cost in lives -- and those are names, not numbers. And, interestingly, no JOHN MAASCH enlisting to help out even while he chest beats endlessly, like a man preparing for ruff sex with himself, as he insists on fighting to the last drop of thousands of other people's blood.

     So: why are we there, boot licker, aside to assuage your status as a "mainstream" self-hating American, subordinate to Bush/Cheney/Rove self-hatred as they stubbornly insist on continuing their violent commission of self-inflicted wounds in a strategic deadend?

     Of course, while MAASCH cheerleads for Bush's failed Americastan with his flailing cleavage, China and India and the EU are just standing still -- right, MAASCH? Are they waiting until Bush the Failure is finished with his fiasco of immolating his own tail in the desert so they may resume their activities at bettering their own situations? Sitting on their hands, idle? MAASCH, has everyone else has put their own economies on hold, patiently, until Bush's failure is terminal and the game can resume?

     If the most effective way to destroy a nation is from the inside, then JOHN MAASCH is the poster person apotheosis for the "mainstream" -- mainstream self-hating American, that is, eager to drag others down with him. It is past time to briskly deposit the self-hating Americans like MAASCH -- feeling Farwell and robustly Robertsonian while they bootlick Bush, as they are programmed to do -- in the ashbin where they belong and return to the project of bettering rather than weakening America.

     Posted by Glenn Lemon at 01/29/2007 @ 09:47am

187. Posted by RIO BRAVO 01/29/2007 @ 09:31a

     Those of you new to posting here should know that RIO BRAVO is a David Koresh enthusiast. He has also consisently refused to respond to the question of whether he also supports indicted rapist and cultist Warren Jeffs, although I have asked him for a simple "yes" or "no" answer on about a half dozen occasions.

     Draw your own conclusions about this freakoid BRAVO.

     Posted by Glenn Lemon at 01/29/2007 @ 09:51am

188. Lemonhead,

     Keep posting.

     Posted by john maasch at 01/29/2007 @ 10:04am

189. RIO,

     As I have never said a word in favor of NAMBLA for the straightforward reason that I think they are freaks and have, in fact, noted the congruence between your refusal to answer my Jeffs inquiry and being a Ramblin'-NAMBLAn Man yourself where pedophilia is concerned, here is conclusion: You are making shit up out of whole cloth. Surprise!

     But I will take the opportunity, thankyouverymuch, to ask again: Are you pro- or anti- Warren Jeffs? (As there may not be a dictionary in your trailer: "pro" means more or less "yes", "in favor", whereas "anti" stands for "no", "against").

     As for "activists" legislating from the bench, let's be empirical: which SCOTUS justices have voted most often to over-rule legislation passed by the people's deputies? Try the usual suspects, Scalia and Clarence "Uncle" Thomas.

     Posted by Glenn Lemon at 01/29/2007 @ 10:12am

190. Lemonhead, Keep posting.

     Posted by JOHN MAASCH 01/29/2007 @ 10:04am

     My pleasure.

     To tell you the truth, JOHN, I sometimes think that there is hard-core liberal within struggling to liberate himself from your intensely boring rightwing tirades -- given that you post here more than anyone save MASK, your wife is a Dem, you only seem to have fun with liberals by your own testimony (JOHANNES) and, maybe most telling, your support for foresaken family members that you have mentioned here (sounds impressively bleeding heart).

     Too bad the bluster and comments that lead with the chin get in the way with such force and regularity of where you may otherwise be coming from.

     Posted by Glenn Lemon at 01/29/2007 @ 10:22am

191. At this point, it has become increasingly apparent that once the Democratic Party selects their nominee for 2008....

     he or SHE will be the next President of the United States.

     Bush has lost Congress, he's split the Republicans (even pushing Right of the Right guys like SAM BROWNBACK!?!?!? against the Surge), and the leading nominee of the GOP, is McCain who supported a BIGGER surge and is trying to "distance himself" from the Administration by blaming Iraq on Cheney and Rumsfeld (while leaving Bush out of it).

     The odds of another Republican Administration are almost exactly the odds of the Surge "stabilizing Iraq"....almost negligible.

     Posted by Mask at 01/29/2007 @ 10:24am

192. Posted by GLENN LEMON 01/29/2007 @ 10:22am

     GLENN, not sure I rank up there with RESE on posts!

     Posted by Mask at 01/29/2007 @ 10:25am

193. The prophet? yea baby! What a fine man he is.

     Rio supports him? NAMBLA must be proud.

     And yes Blotto, we do have the constitution on our side. Glad you finally realized it.

     glenn is spot on about the most "activist" judges. plus, most circuit/district judges have ben appointed by repubs.

     And how about that Insight magazine? Still sticking with the "hillary planted the Obama madrasa story" line neos?

     Never, never let the facts interfere with your hatred.

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/29/2007 @ 10:31am

194. MASK,

     I typed it and realized my error is partly based on what I do actually read. Filtering and concision would serve RESE well as there are postings worth reading in the uber-garage sale that he emits (for example, interview with human rights lawyer Francis Boyle, formerly of Amnesty International).

     As for Dem inevitability in '08: While Brownback (BRING HIM ON!) may have the look of his generation's Goldwater or Mondale, it is also worth recalling that a thoroughly undistinguished Gerald R. Ford almost was elected a mere two years after Watergate. If the election had been a week later, the clumsy Michigander may easily have turned the tables on Carter.

     Point is, the party has got to play to win and not play not to lose, with the idea of fixing the political climate and installing the political wall paper for the next generation (during which time the Repugnanats can be kept busy inhouse, with the matches safely out of their hands, by vetting their Inhofes and other detritus).

     Posted by Glenn Lemon at 01/29/2007 @ 10:38am

195. Wow - looks like it's market day here, and off to a booming start. I can see that the MAASCH emporium of beastly bosh is actively trading with MASK's rancid outlet of replicated moonshine. Shares of articulated dementia are for sale by RIO, but as usual the offer piques more fright than purchase. There is no shortage of submissions when it comes to erecting the Nation's nitwit hit parade.

     It's a sad day when people boast of being square in the middle, adorned with all the pre-packaged thoughts and beliefs tolerated by the managers of society. If you consider yourself a part of this "mainstream", rest assured that you are as dull and unimaginative as an onager, which is what you're encouraged to be, while being as original as a cup of coffee. What the world needs is more fearless thinking, yet here we find a regular salute to the timorous and piggybacking. Someone open up a window.

     Posted by chimichenga at 01/29/2007 @ 10:40am

196. And how about that Insight magazine? Still sticking with the "hillary planted the Obama madrasa story" line neos?

     Posted by CRABWALK 01/29/2007 @ 10:31am

     CRABW, You The Man: What is the latest on this particularly ugly, desperate slur on both OB and HRC?

     Posted by Glenn Lemon at 01/29/2007 @ 10:40am

197. As I recall Gerald Ford was never elected to anything. He is also the first King to be President. No no Its TRUE! He was a King. Leslie King was adopted and had hie name changed to Gerald Ford.

     Posted by abell12ct at 01/29/2007 @ 10:44am

198. What a freak show but fun was had by all. I asked one of the 'active duty' soldiers why he joined the military. That dope said that he joined to get $$$ for college but didn't realize that he'd be sent to Iraq. I asked him if he takes any responsibility for this decision but then some skank whisked him away and started asking me if what news organization I was with. Saw sections that looked to be designated for smoking pot. Saw a few Hollywooders.

     Posted by woodyee at 01/29/2007 @ 10:46am

199. ABELL,

     Note the word "almost" in the sentence I assume you're talking about.

     In the trivia sphere, you are right about Ford/King. Here's another: Clinton's birthname was William Jefferson Blythe for the guy who sired him and died in a car accident while Virginia was preg-o.

     Posted by Glenn Lemon at 01/29/2007 @ 10:48am

200. Its Monday.

     Posted by john maasch at 01/29/2007 @ 10:48am

201. Posted by GLENN LEMON 01/29/2007 @ 10:38am

     Interesting thought. And I'm not TOTALLY ruling out the possibility of a GOP White House in 2008...everybody knows Hillary can energize a base...the Republican base...better than anybody.

     Frankly, though I see Brownback having more trouble getting past the 30% Crowd (CPT, RIO, LVLIB) with his opposition to the "Surge"....than Hillary does getting past the liberal base with her "born again dove" routine. If Edwards, Obama, and even Kucinich split the "anti-Hillary" vote....she wins the nomination.

     On Gerald Ford, and "playing to win, not to lose"....interesting scenario for an alternative history....What IF Ford had won re-election in 1976? With Dole as his Veep, Reagan wouldn't have gotten the nomination in 1980 and would have DEFNITELY been too old for it in 1984. Also, if you grant that the 2nd Oil Crises and Iran were "out of Carter's hands", Ford and Dole would have had major problems in 1980 and given it was his last shot at the nomination....a possible TED KENNEDY Presidency in 1980!

     Same for Bush in 2004....as I noted on another thread, his re-election did more to HELP the Democrats than any Kerry Presidency. In fact, given a Kerry victory in 2004, it's likely the GOP would have kept the Congress and when Kerry "lost" Iraq....the Repubs and Bush could have easily spun it as "We WERE winning when Bush left office in 2004...Kerry cost us Iraq".

     So in two cases...by winning (in 1976), the Dems lost...and by losing (in 2004), the Dems won!

     Posted by Mask at 01/29/2007 @ 10:54am

202. I find the most encouraging aspect of Saturday's march to be the Hampsters' responses.

     To think that one could marginalize the efforts of hundreds (or even tens) of thousands of actual demonstrators from the warmth of one's little digital spewhole shows that, despite the elections of '06, and the 60-70 percent of Americans against the war, the wingnuts haven't lost their talent for self-delusion.

     Posted by drhammer at 01/29/2007 @ 10:56am

203. Posted by WOODYEE 01/29/2007 @ 10:46am | ignore this person

     As for the prudential soldier you rubbed up against, sounds like one of "America's finest". Is this the type of person who should be shouldering the task of bringing "democracy" and "freedom" to one of the most complex and convoluted regions of the world? If you can't even understand the deal one of the rank recruiters like CPT peddles to you in hopes of getting anyone's neck on the battlefield but his own, than what can be expected once you're thrown into action with a machine gun in hand? If this guy wasn't lied to about what joining up would entail, he is as bright as the poor sap in Baghdad asked to drive a stranger's car to a US checkpoint so it can be blown up from afar.

     Posted by chimichenga at 01/29/2007 @ 11:05am

204. Posted by RIO BRAVO 01/29/2007 @ 11:06am | ignore this person

     Give them six years of inaction and lie-gulping and then you can talk.

     Posted by chimichenga at 01/29/2007 @ 11:22am

205. Chimi - This guy couldn't have been that clueless. He probably got psyched up after 9/11 and joined but then got scared about what he heard about Iraq.

     Posted by woodyee at 01/29/2007 @ 11:30am

206. Wow! Make one politically incorrect crack about NAMBLA and all their supporters and members flock to the boards! Is there a My Space link up here that I missed seeing?

     Posted by RIO BRAVO 01/29/2007 @ 10:42am

     Care to back that up with some hard proof that I support NAMBLA, moron? How about Glenn? this is what he wrote "As I have never said a word in favor of NAMBLA for the straightforward reason that I think they are freaks"

     only someone truly disconnected from reality could take that and make it into support. Someone that reads INSIGHT on-line.

     WASHINGTON, Jan. 28 -- Jeffrey T. Kuhner, whose Web site published the first anonymous smear of the 2008 presidential race, is hardly the only editor who will not reveal his reporters' sources. What sets him apart is that he will not even disclose the names of his reporters.

     In the last two weeks, Mr. Kuhner's Web site, Insight, the last remnant of a defunct conservative print magazine owned by the Unification Church led by the Rev. Sun Myung Moon, (Rev Moon has declared himself "King of the Universe- Crab)

     he controversy started with a quickly discredited Jan. 17 article on the Insight Web site asserting that the presidential campaign of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton was preparing an accusation that her rival, Senator Barack Obama, had covered up a brief period he had spent in an Islamic religious school in Indonesia when he was 6.

     "Mr. Kuhner said he was not yet convinced by reports from officials of the elementary school that Mr. Obama attended in Indonesia about its secular history. "To simply take the word of a deputy headmaster about what was the religious curriculum of a school 35 years ago does not satisfy our standards for aggressive investigative reporting," he wrote.

     Under his tenure, Insight's Web site has claimed a series of anonymous scoops, many centered on the White House. In addition to the article about Mr. Bush's feud with his father, there was also a January 2006 report that the United States was preparing for a covert attack on Iran and a February 2006 report that Vice President Dick Cheney would step down after the midterm elections. (the Iran thing is in there for MASK, ref: Ritter)

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/29/2007 @ 11:31am

207. Gasp! The neo's are finally recognizing that some people join the Army for a paycheck!! I am shocked that this has been going on.

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/29/2007 @ 11:33am

208. We have to assume by RIOS silence that he does in fact support the Prophet Jeffs and his child trading/raping religious freedoms.

     there is room for you at the Utah/Arizona border, although it is not as fun as it was, what with the feds being in control of the trust fund now.

     Posted by crabwalk at 01/29/2007 @ 11:36am

209. Glen,

     Here's a tasteless but thus great joke for you.

     Rio gets home from work one day and finds his girlfriend packing.

     He says "What are doing?"

     "I'm leaving you"

     "Why?"

     "I've found out you're a pedophile" . . . . . . . . "My that's a big word for a ten year old"

     Posted by freedomplease at 01/29/2007 @ 11:39am

210. Posted by FREEDOMPLEASE 01/29/2007 @ 11:39am | ignore this person

     Looks like some of you really like that joke. I bet RIO doesn't get it.

     Posted by chimichenga at 01/29/2007 @ 11:55am

211. MAASCH I usually reluctantly respect the "business conservative" point of view as at least rational, even though not ultimately defensible in my worldview, but you cross over into absurdity and zealotry when you issue your faith based prognostications about the Iraq war. You also seem to have a great deal of disdain for the poor, and blame their condition solely upon personal shortcomings, while advertising your "wealth" and thinking that it is all because of your own personal triumphs. Both premises are false, as the intervening variables of life have much more to do with "success" than any inherent personal qualities.

     Also- Mispelling the names of people/ groups you disagree with is no clever or funny in any way. Typing "Hellsbolla" instead of Hezbollah, or "Armjihad" for Ahmadinejad simply makes you appear to be an ill informed buffoon, incapable of expressing your views without resorting to such peurile antics.

     Posted by ENTROPY 01/28/2007 @ 5:28pm

     HEAR HEAR.

     Posted by New Dawn at 01/29/2007 @ 12:09pm

212. I think it's silly to suggest that if we just left the rest of the world alone and guarded our own borders, terrorism would go away. Presumably, if there's some ongoing threat (which there clearly is, ie, al Qaeda exists as a meaningful entity), it would be much better to eliminate it at the source rather than just hope we can intercept every single terrorist who comes through our borders. Pulling out of the Middle East certainly won't eliminate terrorism, unless you're also suggesting we completely abandon Israel.

     Posted by THRAWN 01/28/2007 @ 6:21pm

     I like what you're saying here - it makes sense.

     Question: What is the "source"?

     Posted by New Dawn at 01/29/2007 @ 12:12pm

213. Favorite line I heard was from a high school kid(?) who said "This is like the 60's!!!".

     Posted by woodyee at 01/29/2007 @ 12:36pm

214. Posted by NEW DAWN 01/29/2007 @ 12:12am | ignore this person

     The source is in your newspapers, magazines and televisions, which most Americans bury their heads in so that they can escape reality. Gringos seem to forget Rumsfeld on Meet the Press with diagrams of Osama's multiple fortresses in Tora Bora - the most elaborate caves ever conceived by man, big enough to support an ecosystem of Neanderthals. Were they discovered? Of course not, because the Al-Qaeda threat is so exaggerated and so blown out of proportion, which has in turn made them out to be a sophisticated global army masquerading among the mob, ready at any moment to unleash hell whenever and wherever they please as simply as turning on a switch. The reality? There is an extreme ideology that exists among Muslims and Arabs which is akin to what the Zawahiris and Qutbs believe, but there is in no way anything beyond a few thousand nuts who've fought and died in Afghanistan or Iraq. Sure, there are insurgents in Iraq, but the invasion and Gitmo spawned more than Al-Qaeda could have ever hoped to.

     So while there is certainly an ideology of hate among Muslims and Arabs, there is also one in Israel towards Palestinians, in America towards Hispanics, in Spain towards "Moors", in Russia towards Chechnya. If you choose to believe your life is imperiled on a daily basis because of Al-Qaeda, you've done your patriotic duty of abdicating your rights and letting your leaders fleece you in the name of security, while all other real and immediate problems go on festering. Now that is palpable. Al-Qaeda? The panic engendered and propagated by the West has made them out to achieve a brand name as popular as McDonalds, though the latter has probably claimed more victims than the former. The US refuses to kick Al-Qaeda off the stage, despite the months that pass without even a peep from its sinister leaders plotting disaster without respite. Even in his decrepit state with declining health, Castro is more powerful than Bin Laden when it comes down to it. That next to no one discusses the threats from within the US speaks volumes and represents the true sophistication of the enemy, whose surreptitious shadow will one day suddenly leave the nation enfettered, each victim adorned with the key to his chains around his neck, right below his smile….

     Posted by chimichenga at 01/29/2007 @ 12:36pm

215. Also, a LOT of smokers. If you ban smoking around the Capital, you'd get none of these protesters showing up.

     Posted by woodyee at 01/29/2007 @ 12:37pm

216. "and there was NO, repeat NO mandate as most got there with much less than a 1% majority of the vote in a LOW turnout election!"

     Posted by RIO BRAVO 01/29/2007 @ 11:06am

     What do you think RIO's take on "winning by less than 1%" and "mandates" was in....

     November 2000?

     Posted by Mask at 01/29/2007 @ 1:06pm

217. "I've found out you're a pedophile" . . . . . . . . "My that's a big word for a ten year old"

     Posted by FREEDOMPLEASE 01/29/2007 @ 11:39am

     Perhaps RIO IS Warren Jeffs, hence the "modesty" about his megolomania & infallibity in addendum to the earlier reference to having "children".

     Posted by Glenn Lemon at 01/29/2007 @ 1:47pm

218. How about this, my young friend? ENTROPY included several incidents from WORLD WAR-II in his recitation of "Cold War atrocities by the United States".

     Now, I'll grant that pure historical ignorance doesn't indicate his politics, but I'd say it's a pretty good clue that he like lumping ANY war events into trying to make his point and therefore considers those incidents part of "American aggression". MASK

     MASK, my partial list of US crimes was not meant to solely entail the cold war- it was thrawn who brought up the cold war, not I. That being said, an argument can definitely be made that the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was in fact, the opening salvo of the cold war, an act to make the Soviets pause and reflect the scope of our newfound destructive power. In the future I would appreciate it if you would not so quickly jump to conclusions regarding my grasp of history. BTW, you are right about my politics being fairly radical, but dead wrong about the pacifism.

     Posted by entropy at 01/29/2007 @ 1:48pm

219. Posted by ENTROPY 01/29/2007 @ 1:48pm

     ENTROPY, your politics and your historical outlook are indistiquishable. THE Left Paradigm of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is that they were "un-necessary and just used by Truman to scare Stalin...a Pacific Island test would have convinced the Japanese".

     Believe me I've heard it for TWENTY years, from the old anti-nuke guys I met in college. But it's 20/20 hindsight and fails to take into account the FIERCE (almost "Iraqi insurgency" level) struggle that the Japanese were offering in late summer 1945.

     Even AFTER the Bomb, there were Japanese militarists who resisted surrender. And if Truman had wanted to "scare Stalin", ONE Bomb would have done it. (Ignoring the fact that the Soviet atomic program was well-underway and ol' Joe wouldn't have been scared for too long!)

     You also threw in "Tokyo" and "Dresden"....two items which WELL preceded the end of the war. Both done at a time when we were VERY friendly with the Soviets, running supply convoys to Murmansk and trying our damnedest to "open up a second front" for them in Europe.....so those examples fail as well.

     As far as "pacifist" charges go....read it as NO insult. I have political and logical differences with pacifists, but I cannot argue against their moral or philosophical approach...after all, read correctly, it's the ONLY truly "Christian" stance to take.

     My point was that you strike me as the type (as I said, one I'm quite familiar with over the years) that is basically "Blame-America-First" "The Cold War was OUR fault" "The Soviets would have collapsed without us outspending them militarily", etc.....which IS radical and atleast "smells" of pacifist.

     Posted by Mask at 01/29/2007 @ 2:24pm

220. Posted by MASK 01/29/2007 @ 09:13am

     Poor WILL, he would have been flummoxed if he hadn't found SOMETHING in this thread to disagree with me on....hehe.

     True, I would have been. But you once again you came through like a champ.

     How about this, my young friend? ENTROPY included several incidents from WORLD WAR-II in his recitation of "Cold War atrocities by the United States".

     (gasp) be still my beating heart

     Now, I'll grant that pure historical ignorance doesn't indicate his politics, but I'd say it's a pretty good clue that he like lumping ANY war events into trying to make his point and therefore considers those incidents part of "American aggression".

     I can always count on you to state the obvious like it was THE monumental discovery of the new century.

     BTW, do YOU consider Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman.....war criminals?

     no

     oops, wait...forgot...if you gave an opinion (for or against), you might piss off some of your "friends" here...my bad!

     All and all this post of yours was a a rather feble attempt at a smoke screen mask. It wasn't very effective. I could still see your sorry ass trying to skitter away. But then we really don't expect that much from you any more. And after all those wild girations you did, you still didn't answer my question. Please don't worry about pissing anyone off if and when (and I'm not holding my breath) you actually do grow a little grey matter and answer the question I asked...

     you don't have any friends here.

     Posted by Will C. at 01/29/2007 @ 2:43pm

221. Mask- I clearly stated that my examples were not meant to only include criminal US actions during the cold war. What part of that statement continues to elude you?

     Posted by entropy at 01/29/2007 @ 2:58pm

222. Posted by MASK 01/29/2007 @ 2:24pm

     ENTROPY, your politics and your historical outlook are indistiquishable.

     Why?

     THE Left Paradigm of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is that they were "un-necessary and just used by Truman to scare Stalin...a Pacific Island test would have convinced the Japanese".

     define: the left

     Believe me I've heard it for TWENTY years, from the old anti-nuke guys I met in college. But it's 20/20 hindsight and fails to take into account the FIERCE (almost "Iraqi insurgency" level) struggle that the Japanese were offering in late summer 1945.

     (giggle) the japanese resitance during any point of WWII, especially at the end, almost reached the level of the Iraqi insurgency?

     Ha Ha Ha Ha

     son you need to pull your head out of your ass and pick up a history book.

     Even AFTER the Bomb, there were Japanese militarists who resisted surrender.

     not very effectively

     And if Truman had wanted to "scare Stalin", ONE Bomb would have done it.

     why?

     (Ignoring the fact that the Soviet atomic program was well-underway and ol' Joe wouldn't have been scared for too long!)

     so five years isn't too long. How about six years, is that too long?

     You also threw in "Tokyo" and "Dresden"....two items which WELL preceded the end of the war. Both done at a time when we were VERY friendly with the Soviets, running supply convoys to Murmansk and trying our damnedest to "open up a second front" for them in Europe.....so those examples fail as well.

     I'm not so sure we were ever very friendly with the Soviets. We just chose sides. I can see where there might be some confusion generated by this action considering you live your life with a fence pole up your ass

     As far as "pacifist" charges go....read it as NO insult. I have political and logical differences with pacifists, but I cannot argue against their moral or philosophical approach...after all, read correctly, it's the ONLY truly "Christian" stance to take.

     charges? more like flimsy baseless accusations: the hamster norm. You've yet to make any case supporting your flimsy baseless accusations

     My point was that you strike me as the type (as I said, one I'm quite familiar with over the years) that is basically "Blame-America-First" "The Cold War was OUR fault" "The Soviets would have collapsed without us outspending them militarily", etc.....which IS radical and atleast "smells" of pacifist.

     again, feel free to make your case. Though flimsy baseless accusations probably earn you lots of alfalfa pellets out their in hamsterland

     Posted by Will C. at 01/29/2007 @ 2:58pm

223. What part of that statement continues to elude you?

     Posted by ENTROPY 01/29/2007 @ 2:58pm

     Mask has a tendency to create his own reality and then impose it on the rest of us.

     Posted by Will C. at 01/29/2007 @ 2:59pm

224. Mask- I also stated that a valid argument could be made that there were non- tactical motives to the dropping of the a- bombs, not that I wholeheartedly agreed with that view. I think that the main concern was to finish the war, but that the strategic intimidation of Stalin's Soviet Union was not an unwelcome consequence and was surely discussed amongst Truman and his advisers. In my opinion it was immoral and yes, criminal, to unleash such destructive power on cities full of civilians. If, as Thrawn argued earlier, terrorism is defined as attacks purposefully meant to inflict civillian casualties, then Nagasaki Hiroshima, Dresden, and Tokyo all constitute acts of state terrorism, since we knew full well what the civilian cost of such actions would be.

     Posted by entropy at 01/29/2007 @ 3:07pm

225. I may have a glass of wine now and then..but Will...

     I can see Will has been drinking out of the douche bag again instead of making more sawdust for his boss...

     he is stealing from his boss again.

     Posted by john maasch at 01/29/2007 @ 3:17pm

226. I been drinking form the douche bag?

     maasch has last nights binge carried over into today... again?

     Posted by Will C. at 01/29/2007 @ 3:20pm

227. your really a sick pup when you're drunk

     Posted by Will C. at 01/29/2007 @ 3:20pm

228. Posted by WILL C. 01/29/2007 @ 2:58pm

     As on the other thread....WILL's logical and Socratic argument tends to be...

     "Nuh-huh, you're a dummy head!"

     But hey...always glad to see him show up this time of the afternoon...

     means he got home from school okay and made it up to his room safely!

     Posted by Mask at 01/29/2007 @ 3:33pm

229. Posted by MASK 01/29/2007 @ 3:33pm

     I asked you to make a case to support your flimsy baseless accusations and this is what you came back with?

     You just made my case.

     Ha Ha Ha Ha

     You're such a tool

     Posted by Will C. at 01/29/2007 @ 3:40pm

230. Posted by ENTROPY 01/29/2007 @ 3:07pm | ignore this person

     the war ended in Europe on May 8th. The Russians offered to help the US in the Pacific War against Japan if the latter wasn't triumphant 90 days later. The first A bomb was dropped on August 6th, the second a few days later. In between those two devastating days came to pass day 90 since the Russian promise. The US knew that if Russia had lent a hand in ending that conflict, post-war Japan would be rebuilt by both nations, so the timing of those two bombs was in fact the beginning of the Cold War, as the US pushed its useful enemy away after their concerted efforts to defeat the Nazis and claimed Japan for itself.

     Posted by chimichenga at 01/29/2007 @ 3:42pm

231. A lot of times, I come on these blogs and I learn something, even if it is just something small.

     But sometimes, like today, I hop on one of these blogs and am reminded of why I occasionally entertain doing one of two things (a)living my dream of becoming a American Expatriate in Spain or (b)going to bed, putting a blanket over my head, and never leaving the house again.

     Between the conspiracy theorists and the folks that believe in an imperial presidency (a thought that should scare the fuck out of anyone who has ever cast a vote in this country), I don't know which is worse.

     All that I do know is that enough is enough and that it's time that we do all of the military brats in this country who are anxiously awaiting the return of their parents a favor...send them home...now!

     Posted by edwriter at 01/29/2007 @ 3:48pm

232. Posted by ENTROPY 01/29/2007 @ 3:07pm

     ENTROPY, that's the same ol' debate I remember from college too.

     The problem of course is that it's all based on the idea that the Nazis or the Imperial Japanese militarists would have been "reasonable" or that there IS such a thing as "civilian targets" in a industrialized nation-state where you've got the ball-bearing factory surrounded by the apartments and houses of the workers at the factory....who in themselves are part of the (and you'll love this phrase) "military-industrial complex" of a warring nation.

     The first part is the most ridiculous. The idea that "seeing a test bomb in the Pacific" would have "convinced" rabid Japanese nationalists that they should surrender is self-indulgent and self-REFERENTIAL sophistry. Or that Germany's fighting ability (i.e. tank, aircraft, etc. production) wouldn't have mattered in their defeat if it had been "left along" and not attacked on a consistant basis by both us and the RAF (in a manner and with technology which precluded "pin-point strikes").

     Frankly such arguments are a key reason that the Left has had this "stereotype" of "weak on defense" around its neck for decades. First...for rejecting THEIR OWN LEADERS (like FDR and Truman) as "war criminals"...second for promulgating the idea that they would fight a "nice war" if America was attacked or her security threatened.

     Only the complete incompetence of the Bush guys have given them a "default" win on national security...which may last them several years. But if the "Kucinich/Dept. of Peace" branch takes over...it's back to the "warmongers" of the Republicans, because your line of thinking is, was, and will be in the minority....even among Democrats.

     Posted by Mask at 01/29/2007 @ 3:49pm

233. Posted by CHIMICHENGA 01/29/2007 @ 12:36am

     With all due respect, Chimi, do you read my posts?

     I've been trying for days to get the right-wingers here to explain the root cause (the "source" I was referring to) of Islamic (or any other kind) of extremism.

     Posted by New Dawn at 01/29/2007 @ 3:51pm

234. Posted by CHIMICHENGA 01/29/2007 @ 3:42pm

     To further prove my assertion....if the always reliable CHIMI agrees with you, you can't get a better endorsement for it being "Blame-America-First'ism".

     Remember he's a guy who is no longer a "gringo" (despite probably looking like his parents were from Stockholm) because he's now a "hermano de Colombia" and is innocent of all the evil done by us Americanos and our materialistic lifestyles!

     (atleast until some time after the wedding, when his esposa bonita starts hinting that "Maybe we move back to Estados Unidos, so little Jose' can have dual citizenship, no?" and he settles in suburbia and enjoys the "evil materialistic American lifestyle" again!)

     Posted by Mask at 01/29/2007 @ 3:56pm

235. Posted by WILL C. 01/29/2007 @ 2:58pm

     As on the other thread....WILL's logical and Socratic argument tends to be...

     "Nuh-huh, you're a dummy head!"

     But hey...always glad to see him show up this time of the afternoon...

     means he got home from school okay and made it up to his room safely!

     Posted by MASK 01/29/2007 @ 3:33pm | ignore this person

     Posted by MASK 01/29/2007 @ 3:33pm

     I asked you to make a case to support your flimsy baseless accusations and this is what you came back with?

     You just made my case.

     Ha Ha Ha Ha

     You're such a tool

     Posted by WILL C. 01/29/2007 @ 3:40pm

     Will is absolutely right, Mask.

     Posted by New Dawn at 01/29/2007 @ 3:56pm

236. Mask,

     You and I have been mocking CPT and Rio for failing to answer our questions.

     Answer Will's.

     Posted by New Dawn at 01/29/2007 @ 3:58pm

237. Jesus, are there really two whole pages of Rese and Plunger posts?

     God, I love the iggy button.

     Posted by New Dawn at 01/29/2007 @ 3:59pm

238. Posted by NEW DAWN 01/29/2007 @ 3:51pm | ignore this person

     Of course I read your posts, but they cannot name a source when the most frequently assumed source doesn't exist. The US has inflated another enemy so that it again has a bogus raison d'etre to drop bombs all over the place while tightening the screws on the domestic control mechanisms. Don't forget that the same kooks who convinced the US that Nicaragua was a mortal threat are those who have beat you over the head with the lie about Al-Qaeda wanting to take over the world. Anyone who believes such a thing is possible is delusional.

     Posted by chimichenga at 01/29/2007 @ 4:07pm

239. Posted by MASK 01/29/2007 @ 3:56pm | ignore this person

     Yet another ramshackle response from the notorious MASK, pounding his chest as he pushes out another declamation from his little heart in Trashcanistahn. Boy, have you made knowing nothing a sport, while turning a life of torpor into a career. To think that life in the US is some kind of kindred journey to Heaven is a joke. Sounds like typical gibberish from yet another of the 86% of the Great Eden that doesn't possess a passport, and thus knows the world only through words and images. But hey, what more do you need?

     BTW, you know damn well the US would be the first to cry foul if China bombed every major city in the US if there was a showdown between the two. Just shutting down powergrids in the northeast and making New Englanders spend winter without heat would provoke cries of cruelty, irrationality and terrorism from the US.

     Posted by chimichenga at 01/29/2007 @ 4:25pm

240. NEW DAWN....okaaaaaaay-

     ENTROPY, your politics and your historical outlook are indistiquishable.

     Why?

     -----Because interpretation of history is invariably linked to personal philosophical or political ideology. Noam Chomsky would have a VERY different opinion of Hiroshima from....Dick Cheney or Bill Kristol, wouldn't he???

     THE Left Paradigm of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is that they were "un-necessary and just used by Truman to scare Stalin...a Pacific Island test would have convinced the Japanese".

     define: the left

     ----Well, how about CHIMI, who just espoused that theory? Or is he on the Right?!?!?!?

     Believe me I've heard it for TWENTY years, from the old anti-nuke guys I met in college. But it's 20/20 hindsight and fails to take into account the FIERCE (almost "Iraqi insurgency" level) struggle that the Japanese were offering in late summer 1945.

     (giggle) the japanese resitance during any point of WWII, especially at the end, almost reached the level of the Iraqi insurgency?

     Ha Ha Ha Ha

     son you need to pull your head out of your ass and pick up a history book.

     ---------I'm sorry, the Japanese at Okinawa were offering what? "token resistance"? NEW DAWN, ANY explanation for this rebuttal?!?!?!?

     Even AFTER the Bomb, there were Japanese militarists who resisted surrender.

     not very effectively

     -----Doesn't mean it didn't exist. Why don't YOU read some history. Again, he doesn't argue that it didn't exist, but that it wasn't effective...which isn't what I said.

     And if Truman had wanted to "scare Stalin", ONE Bomb would have done it.

     why?

     ------Because ONE bomb would have proved the existance of atomic weaponry. You could argue that TWO "indicated" we had a lot (which we didn't), but seeing a blasted landscape would be a pretty good indicator to Stalin that we DID possess the technology to make more. Is WILL arguing for argument sake, or arguing that nuking Nagasaki was necessary here?!?!?!??

     (Ignoring the fact that the Soviet atomic program was well-underway and ol' Joe wouldn't have been scared for too long!)

     so five years isn't too long. How about six years, is that too long?

     -----August 29, 1949. That's FOUR years, not five or six, after Hiroshima.

     You also threw in "Tokyo" and "Dresden"....two items which WELL preceded the end of the war. Both done at a time when we were VERY friendly with the Soviets, running supply convoys to Murmansk and trying our damnedest to "open up a second front" for them in Europe.....so those examples fail as well.

     I'm not so sure we were ever very friendly with the Soviets. We just chose sides. I can see where there might be some confusion generated by this action considering you live your life with a fence pole up your ass

     -----"I'm not so sure". Now who has to prove his "baseless allegations"? We could have NOT done the "Arctic Convoys" and let the Russians keep slogging away with the Germans until we were ready to invade...but we didn't. NEW DAWN, note his "rebuttal" ends with personal attack, btw.

     As far as "pacifist" charges go....read it as NO insult. I have political and logical differences with pacifists, but I cannot argue against their moral or philosophical approach...after all, read correctly, it's the ONLY truly "Christian" stance to take.

     charges? more like flimsy baseless accusations: the hamster norm. You've yet to make any case supporting your flimsy baseless accusations

     ----His opinion.

     My point was that you strike me as the type (as I said, one I'm quite familiar with over the years) that is basically "Blame-America-First" "The Cold War was OUR fault" "The Soviets would have collapsed without us outspending them militarily", etc.....which IS radical and atleast "smells" of pacifist.

     again, feel free to make your case. Though flimsy baseless accusations probably earn you lots of alfalfa pellets out their in hamsterland

     -----More opinion, with more ad hominem attacks. Nothing to refute.

     Posted by WILL C. 01/29/2007 @ 2:58pm

     Posted by Mask at 01/29/2007 @ 4:39pm

241. Posted by CHIMICHENGA 01/29/2007 @ 4:25pm

     CHIMI, I give it a year. One year from the day you and your senorita tie the knot that she starts talking about "moving to Estados Unidos".

     First the visit with your parents (those evil gringos!)...then about Christmas-time, she says "Perhaps it would be good to have a baby in USA so that he has dual citizenship and no problemo when he comes to visit abuela".

     So you cave (don't worry, all married guys do) and set up with an apartment back in the ol' "materialistic American greed-head" home-town until the baby comes. You get a job in town or nearby. Baby CHIMI shows up and you say "Miel, when do you want to move back to Medellin?"

     and she says "Oh, baby. Not so soon, the baby just got here"...and that stretches into a year or two. You get promoted at work, and then she says "We need a real house for the baby, CHIMI"....

     and suddenly your mind races back to 2007 and that evil SOB "MASK" and his prediction and you think "Goddammit!"

     (Here's where I ruin a WILL joke...Oh, and you can say "The only true part of that post, MASK, is the part where you say you are a SOB!!!!")

     Posted by Mask at 01/29/2007 @ 4:46pm

242. Posted by MASK 01/29/2007 @ 4:46pm | ignore this person

     Do you watch cartoons on Saturday morning? For Christ's sake reading your posts is like listening to a kid wax enthusiastic about Play-Doh.

     To assume anyone who wasn't born in the US doesn't love their own country more than any other, despite its problems, is so crass, yet this is what ubernationalism does to the human cerebrum. I guess absolutely no one does well for themselves outside your shores. While pleny understand there are certainly many oportunities in the US, they come at a price, especially for a foreigner. I mean, do you think that sign at the foot of the Statue of Liberty means anything anymore? You've replaced the welcome mat with a machine gun and barbed wire.

     Either way, I'm quite cozy and content, working to live and not living to work. I hope you don't consider yourself a travel agent for the greatness of your nation, for you do a lousy job of inciting anyone to see the greatness you boast of all the time. If rubbing elbows with people like you is what my novia o esposa could expect, I'm sure she'd prefer her beautiful country with its open people.

     Posted by chimichenga at 01/29/2007 @ 5:07pm

243. Mask have you taken to talking to yourself? Your 4:39 post is a bunch of incoherent gibberish, and quite frankly I have a tough time taking anyone who uses FOXisms like "blame America firsters" in their arguments very seriously. And what the hell does insisquishable mean anyway?

     Posted by entropy at 01/29/2007 @ 5:16pm

244. Chimi,

     Buenos Tardes!... Hey, how did that march go? Is the US leaving Iraq yet? How was Pelosi's speech, was it better than Reid's?

     I apologize for not being in the loop. I had to forgo the news this weekend so I could catch-up on "24." I'm only on Season 2 disc 3, only 16 more episodes to go until season 3.

     Posted by WallStreet at 01/29/2007 @ 5:17pm

245. MASK is just another wooden do-gooder who sits upon the lap of the Chattering Class and moves his mouth to their words.

     Posted by chimichenga at 01/29/2007 @ 5:18pm

246. Mask you pretend to know an awful lot about people you've never met in your entire life- your analysis of the post marital prospects of cyber chimeras is sooo enlightening.

     Posted by entropy at 01/29/2007 @ 5:18pm

247. WALLSTREET,

     You should stop watching 24. Besides the fact that Kiefer is washed-up, balding and unable to eject a line without shouting, it is perfect rubbish. But I imagine it's a nice dessert after your evening indoctrination via FOX and friends.

     Posted by chimichenga at 01/29/2007 @ 5:20pm

248. Posted by ENTROPY 01/29/2007 @ 5:16pm | ignore this person

     I'm with Entropy, I say we blame Russia or Iran first. Although after watching Rocky IV, I think we like the Russians, so I guess we blame Iran, then Russia.

     Posted by WallStreet at 01/29/2007 @ 5:20pm

249. Wow, this discussion has turned into a real steaming turd, what with Mask waxing poetic about Chimis imaginary esposa and WS talking about TV shows and Rocky. I'm out- maybe after a few brews...

     Posted by entropy at 01/29/2007 @ 5:23pm

250. Nice comeback. The show could do with a little less of that goofy blonde daughter that can't seem to talk the writers into giving her character some brains.

     That said, my wife told me the same thing you did. Freaky. If Chimi is my wife somehow, I only watched 2 episodes last night after you went to bed. Don't get mad.

     Am I still a new-conservative republican, I thought we cleared that up last week?

     Posted by WallStreet at 01/29/2007 @ 5:25pm

251. Did Entropy say something meaningful before I got here? I must have missed it. All I saw was some yammering about enlightenment.

     Posted by WallStreet at 01/29/2007 @ 5:30pm

252. neo-conservative... oops.

     Posted by WallStreet at 01/29/2007 @ 5:31pm

253. Don't knock Chimis imaginary esposa, sometimes those are better than the real thing.

     Posted by WallStreet at 01/29/2007 @ 5:32pm

254. NEW DAWN....okaaaaaaay-

     ENTROPY, your politics and your historical outlook are indistiquishable.

     Why?

     -----Because interpretation of history is invariably linked to personal philosophical or political ideology. Noam Chomsky would have a VERY different opinion of Hiroshima from....Dick Cheney or Bill Kristol, wouldn't he???

     You can answer that question yourself mask. Perhaps you would care to fill us in on what Chomsky's opinion on Hiroshima is mask, as well as the opinion of Cheney and Kristol. It'll give you a chance to demonstrate that you might actually know something as opposed to always blowing shit out your ass. However, this point like all your others is meaningless. Pat Buchanan and dick Cheney have very different opinions about the invasion of Iraq. Buchanan was against it, Cheney for it. Yet they are both conservative republican. That distinction alone kills the relevance of your week explanation and plants you firmly back in the blowing it out your ass department

     ----Well, how about CHIMI, who just espoused that theory? Or is he on the Right?!?!?!?

     So the left is composed of chimi. And he doesn't even live in the United States. Crushing rebuttal mask

     ---------I'm sorry, the Japanese at Okinawa were offering what? "token resistance"? NEW DAWN, ANY explanation for this rebuttal?!?!?!?

     No, compared to the Imperial Army of Japan, the Iraqi insurgency is offering token resistance. This makes your original statement giving the Iraqi resistance superiority to the Japanese defense of their occupied territories (almost "Iraqi insurgency" level) laughable

     -----Doesn't mean it didn't exist. Why don't YOU read some history. Again, he doesn't argue that it didn't exist, but that it wasn't effective...which isn't what I said.

     I'm very aware of the feeling of the general staff in Japan after the bombings. Again, so what, you are pointing out the obvious. What is relevant is that those who wanted to continue to wage war from Japan after the bombings were overruled.

     ------Because ONE bomb would have proved the existance of atomic weaponry. You could argue that TWO "indicated" we had a lot (which we didn't), but seeing a blasted landscape would be a pretty good indicator to Stalin that we DID possess the technology to make more. Is WILL arguing for argument sake, or arguing that nuking Nagasaki was necessary here?!?!?!??

     But we dropped two, and Stalin wasn't afraid of us. As a matter of fact he left his army in Europe faced off against our forces, as we were drawing down, to act as a counter to our new weaponry. And I'm not arguing that bombing Nagasaki was necessary. But if I was in Truman's shoes, I would have done it.

     -----August 29, 1949. That's FOUR years, not five or six, after Hiroshima.

     So are you saying that four years wasn't too long, to a guy who wasn't afraid of us?

     -----"I'm not so sure". Now who has to prove his "baseless allegations"? We could have NOT done the "Arctic Convoys" and let the Russians keep slogging away with the Germans until we were ready to invade...but we didn't. NEW DAWN, note his "rebuttal" ends with personal attack, btw.

     Well, I'm not sure. This would exclude my statement from the category of accusations, baseless or otherwise. You, considering that once again you didn't take that opportunity to provide a basis for your original statement, are still guilty of baselessness. Providing supplies to an ally in war doesn't mean we are VERY friendly with them. If it does then we would have to say the Ronald Reagan and papa bush was VERY friendly with al qaeda because their administration provided them with money and weapons during the soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

     ----His opinion.

     If this were true then you can produce your argument that supports your flimsy baseless accusations. But you can't. You didn't make one

     -----More opinion, with more ad hominem attacks. Nothing to refute.

     Again. If this were true then you can produce your argument that supports your flimsy baseless accusations. But you can't. You didn't make one.

     Posted by Will C. at 01/29/2007 @ 5:32pm

255. One more thing mask. I'm not going anywhere.

     Take as long as you need with your hissy fit

     Posted by Will C. at 01/29/2007 @ 5:33pm

256. (Here's where I ruin a WILL joke...Oh, and you can say "The only true part of that post, MASK, is the part where you say you are a SOB!!!!")

     Posted by MASK 01/29/2007 @ 4:46pm

     why do you talk about yo momma like that mask?

     Posted by Will C. at 01/29/2007 @ 5:35pm

257. 1 Bomb, 2 Bombs, 12 Bombs... Did it work?

     Posted by WallStreet at 01/29/2007 @ 5:39pm

258. 1 Bomb, 2 Bombs, 12 Bombs... Did it work?

     Posted by WALLSTREET 01/29/2007 @ 5:39pm

     didn't you see the pictures?

     Posted by Will C. at 01/29/2007 @ 6:02pm

259. One more thing mask. I'm not going anywhere.

     Posted by WILL C. 01/29/2007 @ 5:33pm

     NO SHIT!!!!!!!!

     Posted by john maasch at 01/29/2007 @ 6:34pm

260. NO SHIT!!!!!!!!

     Posted by JOHN MAASCH 01/29/2007 @ 6:34pm

     Touchy

     Posted by Will C. at 01/29/2007 @ 6:37pm

261. Twot

     Posted by john maasch at 01/29/2007 @ 6:44pm

262. Twot

     Posted by JOHN MAASCH 01/29/2007 @ 6:44pm

     yet... here you are.

     you're a psycho

     Posted by Will C. at 01/29/2007 @ 6:54pm