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RedditEven historians who are not particularly sympathetic to Jimmy Carter's presidency share the widely accepted view that Carter's vice president, Walter Mondale, was one of the most engaged and effective occupants the nation's No. 2 job.
So it means something when Mondale says there are limits to what a Vice President can and should do. And it should mean a lot that Mondale is arguing forcefully that Dick Cheney has exceeded those limits with results that are as practically dangerous as they are politically troubling.
"I think that Cheney has stepped way over the line," Mondale, who during his tenure as Carter's Vice President served as a senior adviser to the President and a prominent spokesman for Administration policies, explained Friady in an aggressive critique of the current Vice President during the opening session of a three-day University of Georgia conference on Carter's presidency.
"I think Cheney's been at the center of cooking up farcical estimates of national risks, weapons of mass destruction and the 9/11 connection to Iraq," Mondale continued in his Friday morning address, which focused on one of the most serious complaints aboit Cheney's tenure in the Bush White House: the penchant of the Vice President and his aides to pressure federal agencies, particularly the Central Intelligence Agency, to produce reports that reflect Cheney's biases rather than reality.
Prior to the March, 2003, invasion of Iraq, Cheney repeatedly visited the CIA headquarters and demanded that briefers confirm his personal theories about the presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and about supposed links between Iraqi President Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda network.
When veteran CIA briefers informed the Vice President that the facts could not be forced to conform with his political views, Cheney dismissed them and demanded that other analysts brief him.
Eventually, members of the House Intelligence Committee wrote a letter to the Vice President urging him to stop pressuring CIA specialists to warp their reports to match his political whims. By then, however, Cheney was relying on the more politically analysts in an "intelligence" operation that had been set up within Donald Rumsfeld's Department of Defense.
Cheney got the reports he wanted. And President Bush, who meets daily with his Vice President and has made it clear that he defers to Cheney on a host of foreign and domestic policy matters, incorporated Cheney-certified theories and schemes into his public statements early in 2003.
Mondale says that Cheney's determination to fix intelligence in order to make a case for invading Iraq ill served both Bush and the best interests of the nation.
"If I had done as Vice President what this Vice President has done, Carter would have thrown me out of there," Mondale told the University of Georgia forum. "I don't think he could have tolerated a Vice President over there pressuring and pushing other agencies, ordering up different reports than they wanted to send us. I don't think he would have stood for it."
The current President has not been as deliberate or as muscular as Carter and other occupants of the Oval Office were in defining the role of the Vice President. Rather, Bush has accepted Cheney's ill-thought interventions, just as the chief executive has stood by the man many refer to as his "co-president."
But that does not mean that Congress and the American people have to stand by Cheney.
The record of Cheney's distortions and deceits, as well as his efforts to pressure government agencies to confirm his fantasies, is well established.
If Congress wants to force this Administration to accept reality--in the Middle East and elsewhere--the place to begin is by holding Cheney to account.
...................................................................
John Nichols, the author of The Rise and Rise of Richard B. Cheney [The New Press] is also the author of a new book on holding presidents and vice presidents to account, THE GENIUS OF IMPEACHMENT: The Founders' Cure for Royalism. It has been hailed by authors and historians Gore Vidal, Studs Terkel and Howard Zinn for its meticulous research into the intentions of the founders and embraced by activists for its groundbreaking arguments on behalf of presidential accountability. After reviewing recent books on impeachment, Rolling Stone political writer Tim Dickinson, writes in the latest issue of Mother Jones, "John Nichols' nervy, acerbic, passionately argued history-cum-polemic, The Genius of Impeachment, stands apart. It concerns itself far less with the particulars of the legal case against Bush and Cheney, and instead combines a rich examination of the parliamentary roots and past use of the "heroic medicine" that is impeachment with a call for Democratic leaders to 'reclaim and reuse the most vital tool handed to us by the founders for the defense of our most basic liberties.'"
The Genius of Impeachment can be found at independent bookstores and at www.amazon.com
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John Nichols
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It ALSO says something that Walter Mondale couldn't beat NORM COLEMAN!?!?!?!, possibly the lamest Senator in years, for ...
PAUL WELLSTONE's seat?!?!!?!?
Al Gore, maybe. But Mondale's opinion isn't that much greater than the average Joe Blow, Vice-President or not.
Posted by Mask at 01/19/2007 @ 3:46pm
Oh, crap....I got first post.
Dammit, NEW DAWN is going to kill me!
hehe
Posted by Mask at 01/19/2007 @ 3:47pm
Have intelligent Americans finally gotten the message that it's dangerous to allow elections to be decided by the kind of benighted characters who admire the dangerous stupidity of someone like Dick Cheney?
Posted by fromredbird at 01/19/2007 @ 3:49pm
LMAO!!! Maybe it'll inspire him to run for president again.
Posted by woodyee at 01/19/2007 @ 3:53pm
"Mr President, I know there are hostages in Iran and I'm sure they're being treated pretty bad but there are some things that I can't do."
Posted by woodyee at 01/19/2007 @ 3:54pm
"No Mr President!! Sure, we could do that but we won't!! I don't care how they're being treated; we're above that. If we were to get them out by doing that then it wouldn't be right..."
Posted by woodyee at 01/19/2007 @ 3:56pm
Given the satirical nature (un-intended) of this...new stories from Uncyclopedia News-
The Triad ends the war in Iraq! [uncyclopedia.org]
Thank God, a New Way Forward on this Shark-Jumper! [uncyclopedia.org]
Posted by Mask at 01/19/2007 @ 4:09pm
i agree with nicholson except...how could he possibly expect concrete brained hobcontrolls to respect mondale?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 01/19/2007 @ 4:47pm
Posted by MASK 01/19/2007 @ 3:47pm |
ever try "fashionably late"?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 01/19/2007 @ 4:48pm
Cheney over the line?
You mean the way he developed FORCED LABOR CONCENTRATION CAMPS IN WYOMING?:
http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?tid=297
http://209.157.64.201/focus/f-bloggers/1607403/posts
Latitude: 41.92 Longitude: -106.521944
http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/47/17936
Bush's Mysterious 'New Programs'
Hanna Coal Basin "RAG Shoshone 1" facility as having stopped production of 1 million-plus tons of coal per year as of 2001:
http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:gNcoT3lrnlsJ:www.wma-minelife.com/co al/coalfrm/coaldat.htm+coal+shoshone+1&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4
Did the government close the mine only to TAKE it for their use?
http://www.fmshrc.gov/decisions/commission/west199934202042004.html
Read this guy's take:
http://tinyurl.com/y48vxo
Posted by plunger at 01/19/2007 @ 5:14pm
But Bush just wouldn't be Bush without Cheney. Jeez! What was Mondale thinking?
Posted by John Earl at 01/19/2007 @ 5:29pm
But Mondale's opinion isn't that much greater than the average Joe Blow, Vice-President or not.
Posted by MASK 01/19/2007 @ 3:46pm
Now that IS a funny comment. Only because I pay such close attention to what you say. About once a week or so. Once every two weeks? Because I signed out to take a look at the nine posts I didn't see. What a waste of time that was.
Posted by fromredbird at 01/19/2007 @ 5:43pm
Why, oh why, has it taken six years for Democrats to starting pointing out the truth? And why is it only ex senators, or ex vice presidents who speak out? Why not those in office now? What are people afraid of?
Posted by theleftcoast at 01/19/2007 @ 6:28pm
Why, oh why, has it taken six years for Democrats to starting pointing out the truth? And why is it only ex senators, or ex vice presidents who speak out? Why not those in office now? What are people afraid of?
Posted by THELEFTCOAST 01/19/2007 @ 6:28pm | ignore this person
they are afraid of fear. the fear of the electorate, who might turn on them.
Posted by johannesrolf at 01/19/2007 @ 6:58pm
Why, oh why, has it taken six years for Democrats to starting pointing out the truth?
this should read: SOME democrats... Kucinic for instance, and Dean and many others DID speak out. there were numerous votes against the war resolution. remember they, like all of us were lied to. truth and justice work very slowly, but thoroughly.
Posted by johannesrolf at 01/19/2007 @ 7:15pm
Mondale is still alive!!? I thought he became a hermit....
Posted by ACook at 01/19/2007 @ 8:11pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 01/19/2007 @ 4:48pm
Nawwwww...that's no fun. Although think I figured out why me being "first post" seems to irritate so many (like NEW DAWN yesterday)...
think it's because the libs here are so crushed down and disheartened (I mean, jeez, look at the past THIRTY-FIVE years for them) that seeing a cynical opposing view SO QUICKLY after some great liberal punditry from the "TN" folks...just crushes their poor little spirits!
They finish reading and instead of some fellow lib Hi-5'ing Mr.s Nichols, Berman, Corn, Rothberg or Ms vanden Heuvel....
more "right-wing" contrast, even rebuttal....and it's like a super-big splash of cold water....even reality!
Posted by Mask at 01/19/2007 @ 8:57pm
Posted by FROMREDBIRD 01/19/2007 @ 5:43pm
FRB, for God's sake....quit lying.
This "I just peeked, now you go back on Ignore for the next 40 years...or until I peek again next Tuesday" crap is really tiring!
Posted by Mask at 01/19/2007 @ 8:58pm
truly pathetic mask do you sit at your computer all day waiting for these blogs so you can "comment" nevermind,dumb question,it's abundantly obvious that you do theres this thing called life,the outdoors,women,men,give it a try you might actually like it seriously you have to get a fuckin life you are truly pathetic
Posted by ericseadler at 01/19/2007 @ 9:30pm
Posted by ERICSEADLER 01/19/2007 @ 9:30pm
Gee, ERIC...did I miss your posts on "getting a life" to...
ZERO?
or RESE and PLUNGER?
or FROMREDBIRD?
or is it just the people who say things you don't like that you want to go outdoors and get a boy or girlfriend?
Posted by Mask at 01/19/2007 @ 9:58pm
Posted by ERICSEADLER 01/19/2007 @ 9:30pm | ignore this person
would it make any difference if he agreed with you?
Posted by johannesrolf at 01/19/2007 @ 10:25pm
...the libs here are so crushed down and disheartened...that seeing a cynical opposing view SO QUICKLY after some great liberal punditry from the "TN" folks...just crushes their poor little spirits!
....and it's like a super-big splash of cold water....
Posted by MASK 01/19/2007 @ 8:57pm | ignore this person
And in one singularly unguarded moment, Mask finally reveals EXACTLY why, no matter what the subject or who the author, he just LOVES to alwsys be first to post on every thread at The Nation!!!
But then, we all knew it wasn't because he felt he had anything intersting to add to the discusssion. We've all known that, for him, it's always been all about providing that "...super-big splash of cold water..."
RONTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Lillian at 01/20/2007 @ 12:15am
John's article is good, but cries out for a bit of editing for misspellings ("Friady" and "aboit") and missing words. (E.g., "Cheney was relying on the more politically analysts..." is obviously missing a word, like "more politically driven" or something.) Also, in the credits at the bottom, the title of John's book should be in italics. On the bright side, only two sentences begin with "And." My humanities professors at MIT would have given a failing grade to a paper that had ONE sentence that began with "And." (One was a bit more lenient about beginning sentences with "But.") Perhaps journalists aren't as bound by correct grammar.
Posted by gslusher at 01/20/2007 @ 01:44am
truly pathetic mask do you sit at your computer all day waiting for these blogs so you can "comment" nevermind,dumb question,it's abundantly obvious that you do theres this thing called life,the outdoors,women,men,give it a try you might actually like it seriously you have to get a fuckin life you are truly pathetic
Posted by ERICSEADLER 01/19/2007 @ 9:30pm
Take it easy on him. He's been undergoing an intensive home schooling political reeducation course since the mid-term elections. He's hoping it will help him adjust his persona enough to continue to at least (almost) appear to be the Democrat concerned about his party that he claims to be. Imagine how nervewracking that can be.
He should try to relieve some of his tension by calling me anti-semitic or referring to me as FROMHEZBOLLAH or FROMHAMAS. If he doesn't the rubber band's going to snap and he's going to become a permanent mental inhabitant of LOVELIBERTYSTAN.
Posted by fromredbird at 01/20/2007 @ 02:05am
Do the country a favor - expose this:
What's going of with a CONCENTRATION CAMP in Wyoming? Read the designations on the photos carefully. Housing for FAMILIES in a forced labor prison camp?
Swift Luck Greens: http://www.democracyforums.com/showthread.php?tid=297
http://209.157.64.201/focus/f-bloggers/1607403/posts
Latitude: 41.92 Longitude: -106.521944
Civilian Inmate Labor Program: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_Inmate_Labor_Program
Bush's Mysterious 'New Programs' http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/47/17936
Hanna Coal Basin "RAG Shoshone 1" facility stopped production of 1 million-plus tons of coal per year as of 2001:
http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:gNcoT3lrnlsJ:www.wma-minelife.com/co al/coalfrm/coaldat.htm+coal+shoshone+1&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4
Did the government close the mine only to TAKE it for their use? Interview their former CEO and ask him. http://www.fmshrc.gov/decisions/commission/west199934202042004.html
What is the mine used for? Are they storing nasty stuff there? Is it legal for the Army and DHS to jointly run this facility? What about the Posse Comitatus Act? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
What about the 15,000 foot military runway? What's that for? Is the airspace overhead restricted?
Read this guy's take: http://tinyurl.com/y48vxo
Posted by plunger at 01/20/2007 @ 05:35am
Noble, American cousins, Evening all from your continental aircraft carrier in the southern hemisphere. Couldn't you guys do something about this creep? He and his hand puppet George W. have put it in our Prime Minister's mind that he's a 'great man' and 'a man o'steel'. It's making life pretty unpleasant. Could you also point out to 'man o'steel' that Joseph McCarthy died in the 1950s? There's no point us saying anything, he only listens to Americans. Business Man, Oz.
Posted by Business Man at 01/20/2007 @ 06:10am
Posted by LILLIAN 01/20/2007 @ 12:15am
No, LILL....if you could actually comprehend what you read, I said that was the reason the LIBERALS get pissed when I get "first post".
I never care...it's always somebody like NEW DAWN, ERIC, etc. who brings it up!
Posted by Mask at 01/20/2007 @ 07:15am
Posted by FROMREDBIRD 01/20/2007 @ 02:05am
Do I HAVE to go back and post where you CLAIM you had me on Ignore just a few hours earlier?
Atleast quit lying about THAT, FRB...before moving onto other lies!
hehe
Posted by Mask at 01/20/2007 @ 07:17am
or referring to me as FROMHEZBOLLAH or FROMHAMAS.
Posted by FROMREDBIRD 01/20/2007 @ 02:05am
BTW....why does THAT upset you? Not much either of those groups support that you don't?!?!?!
Posted by Mask at 01/20/2007 @ 07:38am
Cheney, Rove and fortunately, formerly Rumsfeld, are archtypal in their overcompensatory bullyings. Their pompous mendacious mannequin Ranger Bush is the Worst Prez EVER!!
Posted by lewwelge at 01/20/2007 @ 08:22am
For those who want to understand the RESE mind...
"The Culture of Conspiracy" by Michael Barkun (find it at amazon, etc)
Posted by Mask at 01/20/2007 @ 09:10am
RESE, I'll also recommend "The Paranoid Style in American Politics" by Hofstadter--
"The paranoid spokesman sees the fate of conspiracy in apocalyptic terms -- he traffics in the birth and death of whole worlds, whole political orders, whole systems of human values.
"He is always manning the barricades of civilization. He constantly lives at a turning point. Like religious millenialists he expresses the anxiety of those who are living through the last days and he is sometimes disposed to set a date for the apocalypse."---Richard Hofstadter
Posted by Mask at 01/20/2007 @ 09:19am
Posted by GSLUSHER 01/20/2007 @ 01:44am | ignore this person
they HAVE been a bit sloppy lately.
Posted by johannesrolf at 01/20/2007 @ 09:29am
BTW, as far as RESE and his "Jesuits"...see if this sounds familiar?---
Discussing the Jesuits...."A conspiracy exists," Morse proclaimed , and "its plans are already in operation…we are attacked in a vulnerable quarter which cannot be defended by our ships, our forts, or our armies."
That's from "Foreign Conspiracies against the Liberties of the United States" by Samuel Morse, telegraph inventer himself.
in 1835!
Posted by Mask at 01/20/2007 @ 09:47am
Mondale is still alive!!? I thought he became a hermit....
Posted by ACOOK 01/19/2007 @ 8:11pm
I spent the week in Minnesota ...saw and heard Mondull...you are correct in your first question...
He is indeed dead..through and through...and we still laugh at him, even those up here..
Posted by john maasch at 01/20/2007 @ 10:21am
"Mr President, I know there are hostages in Iran and I'm sure they're being treated pretty bad but there are some things that I can't do."
Posted by WOODYEE 01/19/2007 @ 3:54pm | ignore this person
Or, how about your divinely stupid Ronald Reagan; self-righteous, lying bastard, who, oblivious to the rank hypocrisy, yells "Tear down this wall!" while simultaneously arming and coddling a kind of Dream Team for the worst murdering dictators list. But the real kicker is that I still hear the the kind of knuckledragging rhetoric that loves to resurrect the principles and strength of Ron Reagan, "if only we had some leader like Reagan to make those Iranians kneel down before our great Christian nation," while conveniently ignoring the fact that this administration of idiots (one of their first actions was to rip away the solar panels installed on the White House roof, ostensibly to declare a "War on Alternative Energy"), these villians formulated a tough-guy policy to sell military weapons to the Iranians to have hostages released. From there they would use the illegal profits to fund Contra terrorists in Central America to deal with the Nicaraguan people; meddlers who loused up a long-standing relationship between the US government and some nice dicator family superb at keeping the population in check.
So, go ahead, mock the Carter administration while conveniently passing on Reagan and his thugs; many of whom have been recylced with Bush, brought back to terrorize us and the world again.
Posted by Oustbush at 01/20/2007 @ 10:36am
. . this administration of idiots (one of their first actions was to rip away the solar panels installed on the White House roof . .
Posted by OUSTBUSH 01/20/2007 @ 10:36am
What pitiful but still despicable sociopaths.
Posted by fromredbird at 01/20/2007 @ 11:02am
It ALSO says something that Walter Mondale couldn't beat NORM COLEMAN!?!?!?!, possibly the lamest Senator in years, for ...
PAUL WELLSTONE's seat?!?!!?!?
Al Gore, maybe. But Mondale's opinion isn't that much greater than the average Joe Blow, Vice-President or not.
Posted by MASK
Cynical. Cynical. Cynical.
Maybe we should just let this administration trash the country and say nothing? Does that sound good, Mask?
Posted by hhemwm at 01/20/2007 @ 11:18am
I have no idea what the 2002 Senate race has to do with Walter Mondale's experiences as Vice President of the United States. . .
Care to enlighten us, Mask?
Posted by hhemwm at 01/20/2007 @ 11:19am
John Maasch, it would appear you also have no understanding of why a former Vice President's views and experiences might be of some value.
Fiddle while Rome burns. . . .
Posted by hhemwm at 01/20/2007 @ 11:20am
if, as is apparent, Cheney is the real pres behind Bush the mouth piece, who was the real pres for Reagan, the amiable dunce, who could not distinguish reality from cinematic fiction? the US has been suffering from a decade long coup d'etat by reactionary forces. perhaps it was Reagan's vice.
Posted by johannesrolf at 01/20/2007 @ 11:24am
IBBLEBLIBBLE;
We have SO MUCH to learn from the Carter Mondale philosophy of dealing with Islamo-Facist Terrorists and their state supporters!
LOL LOL LOL LOL, BWAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Now if Ross Perot had something to say..........
Posted by RIO BRAVO 01/19/2007 @ 11:50pm | ignore this person
Yes, indeed. Because the Bush administration has been so good at handling terrorism. Invading Iraq has definetly solved our problems and created a more peaceful world, not to mention eased our problems with Iraq. . . .
It is comforting to know that the Righties who post here still rely on that good ole' chestnut of blaming the Democrats for their own failed maneuvers.
Who was it again that sold weapons to Iran to help fund an illegal war in Nicaragua again? Oh yes, Reagan and the GOP. And that really helped matters didn't it? Last I heard Iran was developing a nuclear bomb and, lo and behold, Daniel Ortega was BACK IN POWER in Nicaragua.
So, Rio, you will pardon me if I don't exactly have any faith in what the GOP is capable of in dealing with geo-politics and terrorism.
Posted by hhemwm at 01/20/2007 @ 11:25am
And there are rumors that Bush is setting his sites on a military confrontation with Iran.
With what army?
Posted by hhemwm at 01/20/2007 @ 11:27am
Oh, I forgot. . . Rio is going to enlist!!! I feel better now.
Posted by hhemwm at 01/20/2007 @ 11:27am
With what army?
Posted by HHEMWM 01/20/2007 @ 11:27am | ignore this person
it will likely be "surgical" airstrikes. Maybe that famous surgeon Dr. Frist can help with that.
Posted by johannesrolf at 01/20/2007 @ 11:33am
I think you are right about the "surgical airstrikes." And then what? Does anyone really think Iran will just sit there and do nothing?
I guess Bush/Cheney think it will be the straw that breaks the back of the unpopular Ahmadijenad regime and then the force for democracy (the students) will overthrow the government and we will see a new democracy emerge?
Posted by hhemwm at 01/20/2007 @ 11:48am
I guess Bush/Cheney think it will be the straw that breaks the back of the unpopular Ahmadijenad regime and then the force for democracy (the students) will overthrow the government and we will see a new democracy emerge?
Posted by HHEMWM 01/20/2007 @ 11:48am | ignore this person
this will never happen. my guess is that Iran will avoid a direct confrontation, but step up their support of proxy terrorist groups, who will then attack america's interests, if not the US itself.
Posted by johannesrolf at 01/20/2007 @ 11:51am
Interesting that we again see another log on the camels back leading to more investigations of gw & co.
Will the rope get them for their high crimes and treasonous acts? One can only hope, the odds of this actually happening are moving upward again when will the camels back break?
To the wanker squad Hillary got your knees shaking yet? get ready she's coming.
Posted by dycel8r at 01/20/2007 @ 11:53am
" this administration of idiots (one of their first actions was to rip away the solar panels installed on the White House roof . .
Posted by OUSTBUSH 01/20/2007 @ 10:36am"
They didn't work, but maybe thats not what is important, the idea of panels on WH roof is...but they meant well,,,right? Should have spent more money on them...
Posted by john maasch at 01/20/2007 @ 12:53pm
"From there they would use the illegal profits to fund Contra terrorists in Central America to deal with the Nicaraguan people; meddlers who loused up a long-standing relationship between "
but at least Ortega had to win in a pesky election this time,(something Castro never had to trifle with or Chavez should ever have to again) that I am sure he was ready to install, right after meetings with his mentor, Castro, and now Chavez....
Posted by john maasch at 01/20/2007 @ 12:56pm
Mask,
Instead of shooting the messenger, in this case Mondale, how about responding to the points Mondale has made?
Is Mondale wrong when he claims that Cheney put enormous pressure on the CIA to change their intelligence to fit Cheney's fantasies?
Answer that question and desist from your ad hominem attacks.
Posted by blue photon at 01/20/2007 @ 1:06pm
They didn't work,
solar panels do not work? I'm sure that would come as news to NASA, and a few million other users.
Posted by johannesrolf at 01/20/2007 @ 1:06pm
Posted by RESE 01/20/2007 @ 09:52am
So if Morse 170 years ago was "cutting & pasting" on the Jesuits....and here we are 170 years later and they're GAINING power...
what do you think will happen 170 years from NOW, despite YOU.
After all, RESE...you haven't even invented a new communications system like Morse did!
hehe
Posted by Mask at 01/20/2007 @ 1:17pm
I read something about those units...my brother in law sold units when tax credits were offered and the technology wasn't there...the new ones actually work fine....
I have a unit I am trying to sell to Target and Shopoko type stores that have a German battery and American circuts and LED light....works on sunlight all day and then lights up all night to illuminate stairs, patio sidewalks or mail boxes in the country so snow plows can see them on blizzardly night, fog or just to light the way down unlit roads....there last for years and cost $8.00 retail....I am working on someone to buy ton of them its tough....
Posted by john maasch at 01/20/2007 @ 1:19pm
Posted by HHEMWM 01/20/2007 @ 11:19am
Posted by BLUE PHOTON 01/20/2007 @ 1:06pm
The messenger IS important. Everything Mondale says is true...
too bad it's a guy who was part of the LAST disasterous Presidency, who got STOMPED by Reagan, and who couldn't beat a nitwit like Coleman, saying it!
Posted by Mask at 01/20/2007 @ 1:19pm
" this administration of idiots (one of their first actions was to rip away the solar panels installed on the White House roof . .
Posted by OUSTBUSH 01/20/2007 @ 10:36am"
They didn't work, but maybe thats not what is important, the idea of panels on WH roof is...but they meant well,,,right? Should have spent more money on them...
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 01/20/2007 @ 12:53am | ignore this person
John,
I realize that it would make you feel better about yourself if this were true...but once again, you are wrong. The solar panels were used by a small college in Maine, after Reagan and his henchmen had them taken out of sight from such a symbolically significant location.
From the AP WIRE
Thursday, October 28, 2004 5:15 pm
Maine college to auction off former White House solar panels
Associated Press
UNITY, Maine -- A Maine college that used solar panels on one of its buildings after they were removed from the White House nearly two decades ago wants to auction them off, officials said Thursday.
Unity College will remove the worn-out panels and may offer them online to the highest bidder to raise funds for some of its programs, or perhaps at a live auction, spokesman Mark Tardif said. The panels may come down before next week´s election.
But because the panels are historically significant, the central Maine environmental and outdoors studies college wants to find out first whether it´s legally authorized to auction them, or if they must be returned to the government, said Tardif.
The 32 panels were put on the presidential mansion during a period that the country was reeling from the effects of an Arab oil embargo.
After calling for a nationwide campaign to conserve energy, President Jimmy Carter ordered the panels erected in 1979 to set an example for the country, according to the White House Historical Association.
The solar heating panels were installed on the roof of the West Wing, but removed during Ronald Reagan´s presidency in 1986, after the energy crisis and worries about dependence on foreign oil had subsided.
The panels were being stored in a government warehouse in Franconia, Va., when a Unity College official heard about them and asked that they be released to the school. College development officer Peter Marbach picked them up from the warehouse and drove them in an old school bus owned by Unity back to Maine.
Promotional materials sent to prospective students, for example, are not only printed on recycled paper, but also produced with wind-generated power, Tardif said.
Unity received a note from Carter after the panels were reinstalled there saying he was glad they had found a new home. The college still has a large framed photo of the former president at a ceremony marking the installation of the panels at the White House.
Posted by Oustbush at 01/20/2007 @ 1:21pm
"I realize that it would make you feel better about yourself if this were true..."
?
I feel great...why would your post "down me out"....you are not important to my life...
Posted by john maasch at 01/20/2007 @ 1:30pm
Mask,
Instead of shooting the messenger, in this case Mondale, how about responding to the points Mondale has made?
Posted by BLUE PHOTON 01/20/2007 @ 1:06pm | ignore this person
Excellent question Blue! And Mask's answer...?
After spending some 70 words trashing Mondale, and 480 words trashing everybody else who posts here, we get 5 words that say "Everything Mondale says is true..."
In other words Blue, Mask AGREES with Mondale. It's just that, talking about the issues, or whether or not he agrees with anybody, isn't why Mask posts here. He's already revealed upthread that his purpose in posting here (and posting first as often as he can) is to throw "a super-big splash of cold water" so that "the libs here are so crushed down and disheartened".
Posted by Lillian at 01/20/2007 @ 2:05pm
"I realize that it would make you feel better about yourself if this were true..."
?
I feel great...why would your post "down me out"....you are not important to my life...
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 01/20/2007 @ 1:30pm | ignore this person
John,
Sincerely, I'm glad to hear you are a happy, good-natured guy. My postings are irrelevant, I'm sure. What I'm alluding to is your phenomenal talent for making factually incorrect statements; particularly true when defending Republican leaders like, George W. Bush or Ronald Reagan.
Posted by Oustbush at 01/20/2007 @ 2:12pm
They didn't work, but maybe thats not what is important, the idea of panels on WH roof is...but they meant well,,,right? Should have spent more money on them...
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 01/20/2007 @ 12:53am
massch on the solar panel issue see http://www.ecomall.com/greenshopping/solarwhitehouse.htm
The panels weren't defective the administration was. The current system produce's some 12,525 wdc after inverter thats 109 AC amps continuious every day the sun shines. More than enough power to run your whole house.
Posted by dycel8r at 01/20/2007 @ 2:18pm
Walter Mondale is an honorable man and, especially when compared to Moron and Psycho...er...Bush and Cheney..the man is a true statesman. Does that mean he was the most effective person to make this statement? I say the question is a complete non-sequiter. It wasn't like the Democratic party crafted this special message and then went searching for someone to present it. The man was invited to attend a forum at the University of Georgia...he did so and he spoke his mind in an open and articulate manner. Good for him...and he has my gratitude for saying what needs to be said as often and to as many people as possible. And to those that he offended, and especially to the Lilliputian intellects here who are trying to denigrate the man, all I can do is laugh. However much they try to cast him in a negative light, the man was the VP of the United States for heavens sake and, in stark contrast with recent Republicans like Darth Cheney, Dan Quayle, and Spiro Agnew, is widely accepted by those who have an impartial view of history as one of the best and most effective to have ever served. So deal with it.
Posted by Lillian at 01/20/2007 @ 2:24pm
Posted by LILLIAN 01/20/2007 @ 2:05pm
Yep, but that was Mr Nichols' point. That somehow Mondale adds "extra authority" to the critique of Cheney...he doesn't.
Al Gore...maybe. The late Nelson Rockefeller, or the late Hubert Humphrey (less so)....but not the LAST Vice-President of a disasterous Administration going after the PRESENT Vice-President of a disasterous Administration.
Obvious answer to Mondale is...Was it REALLY that much more wonderful under YOUR Vice-Presidency, Mr Mondale?
What are those "stagflation/malaise" numbers again???
Posted by Mask at 01/20/2007 @ 6:39pm
Posted by MASK 01/20/2007 @ 6:39pm | ignore this person
Yep, but that was Mr Nichols' point. That somehow Mondale adds "extra authority" to the critique of Cheney...he doesn't.
Of course he does Mask. You just could never admit that because you trashed Mondale at the begiing of this thread...even though you later admit that he was exactly right!
Al Gore...maybe.
Oh yes, now that makes perfect sense, Mask. If only Al Gore had said these things...no wing-nuts would ever think to trash Mr. Gore!!
...or the late Hubert Humphrey
Excuse me?!?!? Are you suggesting that somebody dig up "the late Hubert Humphrey", re-animate him, and have HIM present the message that Cheney stepped over the line?!?!
Obvious answer to Mondale is...Was it REALLY that much more wonderful under YOUR Vice-Presidency, Mr Mondale?
First, why are you calling him "my" vice president? Because I pointed out how utterly lame it is to trash a man with whom YOU agree??
And, I have absolutely NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER stacking the Vice Presidency of Walter Mondale up against that of Darth Cheney...any time, any day. Mondale was NEVER my favorite VP but really Mask...in such a comparison he comes off looking like Mother Theresa compared to Dick Cheney's Joan Rivers!!
Or are you now going to start defending Dick Cheney rather than admit that I got this one right?
Posted by Lillian at 01/20/2007 @ 7:21pm
Or is this yet another case of Mask trying "to throw "a super-big splash of cold water" so that "the libs here are so crushed down and disheartened".
Posted by Lillian at 01/20/2007 @ 7:23pm
Obvious answer to Mondale is...Was it REALLY that much more wonderful under YOUR Vice-Presidency, Mr Mondale?
Just re-read that and realized you were imagining yourself responding to Mr. Mondale, Mask. (Sorry Mask, I just don't live in these little fantasies the way you seem to.)
Still think you'd come off as looking pretty lame with that question...in defense of Dick Cheney! Hell, all Walter would have to respond is "At least I never shot a guy in the face during my term...and then forced him to apologize to me!"
Posted by Lillian at 01/20/2007 @ 7:43pm
Hey, it was great seeing your posts again Oustbush! My nephew-by-marriage, Ethan Reid, who's just completed his first freshman semester with a respectable 3.5 or so at Virginia Tech would do well to engage in discussions with you, ImHO.
Anyway, also, Rese, again, I'm mentally and physically unable to read your more than a bit of your voluminous contribution(s) here. However, I will go to antiwar.com and check out more of your, alas, IMHO, oft prolix inimitableness. Aw...mea culpa. I'm unable to keep up. You're a prophet. Are you related to Plunger?Where art thou?
Posted by lewwelge at 01/20/2007 @ 7:55pm
Mask needs to check himself- as no one ever Elected him Vice president. Cheney is the dark hand behind the throne to be sure. Any Impeachment effort must include the evil man as well as his figurehead 'Boss' George W. Bush.
Posted by gwats1957 at 01/20/2007 @ 11:59pm
Lieberman and McCain were the featured guests at the AEI event McCain spoke at.
They were also the featured guests at the recent JINSA Awards banquet held to honor McCain with their annual War Mongers Award (Scoop Jackson Award), given out annually to the American militarist who best serves the interests of Israel (last year it was General Peter Pace).
McCain / Lieberman is your future - and this will NOT be determined by your votes. This is preordained.
DO THE MATH
Possible McCain-Lieberman Alliance
Introducing McCain to a packed ball room of pro-Israel business executives, defense contractors, and Washington insiders, was Sen. Joseph Lieberman, fresh from being re-elected as an independent after losing the Democratic Party primary in Connecticut.
Lieberman's glowing tribute to his Republican colleague did not go unnoticed. "McCain-Lieberman? There's something to that," JINSA board member Morris J. Amitay told the crowd.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/12/6/111221.shtml?s=lh
"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.
McCain Says Major Financiers Will Back His 2008 Bid December 15, 2006
One of the most prominent on the list of finance committee co-chairmen is the head of the New York Stock Exchange, John Thain. Mr. Thain, whose title is CEO of NYSE Group, Inc., previously served as president and CEO of Goldman Sachs Group, Inc.
A New Jersey-based investment banker deeply involved in fund-raising efforts for the 2004 Republican convention, Lewis Eisenberg, is signing on with Mr. McCain. Mr. Eisenberg is a former Goldman Sachs partner who served as chairman of the Port Authority board at the time of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
WHAT A COINCIDENCE!
It was Eisenberg who passed the $15 billion Asbestos Liability represented by the Twin Towers onto Larry Silverstein, the man who confessed publicly to having Building 7 "PULLED" by explosives – despite the fact that no plane struck it:
Rescuer 2: "Keep your eye on that building, it will be coming down soon." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vr5TxKTMRx0
LISTEN to the firefighters and police: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnbpz9udYus
Listen to the owner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYaUeGvYYxc
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0823-03.htm
COLLEGE STUDENTS DYING FROM INHALED ASBESTOS: http://www.bupipedream.com/pipeline_web/display_article.php?id=3259
ALL SO HALLIBURTON COULD REMOVE THE WTC ASBESTOS LIABILITY FROM ITS BOOKS - HALLIBURTON HAD ACQUIRED DRESSER TO SAVE THE BUSH FAMILY FROM THE LOSING POSITION IT WAS STUCK IN…all because of the pending Asbestos law suits
Planning days in advance to bring down WTC7 by planting explosives inside it implies only ONE THING...FOREKNOWLEDGE OF THE ATTACK ON 9/11. Google: "Dancing Israelis"
The Zionists did it. McCain is in their employ. Lieberman is absolutely his running mate. Apparently McCain doesn't realize that once they are "installed" in the White House, his own days on planet earth are numbered by dark forces who will not rest until Israel has installed a Zionist as President in YOUR White House.
Follow the money. Google: Greenquest
The conquest of the Middle East is being conducted at Israel's INSISTENCE - via BLACKMAIL.
Their espionage has resulted in Israel controlling the neclear targeting and launch codes of our US nuclear arsenal. As Sharon stated clearly "Israel CONTROLS the US."
Expose the criminals in the Bush Cabal who are so guilty on so many levels that they have allowed the United States to fall into foreign control. Expose the blackmail. EVERYTHING that is happening is under the direct control of Israel. If the new hate crimes legislation passes, it will be illegal to even discuss it. THAT is the reason ISRAEL is promoting it through their AIPAC-owned puppets in Congress.
Freedom of Speech is on the line. EXPOSE IT!
Posted by plunger at 01/21/2007 @ 03:42am
Mel Sembler heads up Scooter Libby's Legal defense Fund. Mel is a lifelong Republican with a very checkered past:
http://alternet.org/story/27725/ http://www.thestraights.com/index.htm
"In February 1989, President George H.W. Bush appointed Sembler United States Ambassador to Australia and Nauru"
"In 1998 Sembler and his wife went to Israel with George and Laura Bush. Sembler has close personal ties to both George W. and Jeb Bush. Sembler's wife Betty was a fundraiser for Jeb's gubernatorial campaign. As a gesture of gratitude, Jeb declared August 8, 2000 "Betty Sembler Day" in Florida."
AND THIS:
US Representative Michael Bilirakis escorting Vice President George H. W. Bush and Barbara to a Straight Open Meeting in 1988.
http://www.thestraights.com/news/charlie-crist.htm
How's this for coincidence? Mel just happened to be the Ambassador to Italy (of all places, in that he didn't even speak the language) at the same time that Ledeen makes a trip to Rome to meet with him and others - then magically - the purported Niger Yellow Cake document appears in Italy.
Even more interesting, when Lieberman loses to Lamont in the DEMOCRATIC primary, it is Republican Sembler who hosts a fundraiser for Lieberman to run as an Independent (with the full support of the White House and Karl Rove).
Now if you always keep the PNAC in mind, and remember the AGENDA that is being pursued on Israel's behalf, it becomes very clear that a massive conspiracy to SELL THE INVASION OF IRAQ was in play.
I believe that the only explanation is that GHW Bush and the agents of Israel (including Lieberman) formed a CONSPIRACY (each for their own reasons) to work together to take down Clinton with Sexpionage (and that alliance continued through 9/11 and the invasion of the Middle East):
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=2189 http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/zionism/mossad/israeli_sexpion age.htm http://www.heretical.com/costello/12sexspy.html http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=node/1254
and to then implement the PNAC - to the benefit of Bush 41's "Poppy Interests" in Afghanistan, Big Oil's interests throughout the Middle East (and resolving the overhanging ($15 billion) Asbestos liability of Halliburton, represented by the Twin Towers), the Military Industrial Complex (Carlyle) and Israel - whose primary interest is the acquisition of resources and territory to create "Greater Israel."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Israel
GHW Bush, Cheney, Lay and Rumsfeld planned it all during the Clinton administration, and used Lay's FAKE energy crisis as the platform to INSTALL the purported "energy experts" in the White House.
Sembler/Israel is in business with GHW's CIA. Bush's CIA has a fleet of Gulfstream Jets in Florida used primarily to transport drugs. The kids are just fronting for their dad's business.
Cheney + Mossad = 9/11 (the PRETEXT / NEW PERLE HARBOR). The 9/11 operation was botched big time and they've been covering their tracks ever since.
All that has followed is ON-PLAN, including the intentional Mayhem in Iraq to justify Genocide and the acquisition of resources and territory. There was no exit strategy - as there is NO GOAL to exit - EVER. Rummy threatened to fire any General who worked on the post invasion plan:
What more proof do you require? Iraq is perfectly "ON-PLAN."
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB198/index.htm http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Future_of_Iraq_Project http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2006_09/009469.php
LESS THAN ONE MONTH AFTER 9/11:
"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.
(Certainly the FBI's cover-up of the Israeli spy ring/phone tap scandal suggests that Mr. Sharon IS CORRECT.)
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7545.htm
Do the math - it's all the same conspiracy.
Look - here's the deal:
The biggest problem we face (a coup by a foreign power and treason within) cannot be openly discussed. The "special relationship" IS the problem. Dov Zakheim stole $7 trillion from the DOD and sent it to Israel. Want to know why Bush is unafraid of the supposed "power of the purse" and the threat by Congress not to fund his escalation? The money is not needed. They stole it in advance of 9/11 (witness Rumsfeld's admission of $2.3 trillion missing on 9/10/2001). The entire campaign is ALREADY FUNDED.
Zakheim stole the money on behalf of the co-conspirators in the coup (the Bush Cabinet and Likud - in concert with The Crown). They looted the US Treasury IN ADVANCE OF 9/11.
They did it because it was all part of the master plan. Chaos in Iraq is PART OF THE PLAN. The funding for the escalation is NOT coming from any budget that Congress has ANY CONTROL OVER. The money was already sent to Israel in advance of PNAC's "NEW PERLE HARBOR" and will now be tapped on an as needed basis - having lost the backing of the American people and congress.
This ALL planned for.
Ask Dov Zakheim about the $7 trillion.
He and Kobi Alexander (former CEO of Comverse) were co-conspirators in the implementation of 9/11. Zakheim's "Sysplan" provided the fly-by-wire technology and Comverse / Ptech provided the software and wiretapping / blackmail capabilities.
Why is Kobi Alexander (wanted on Federal Charges) under the cover of the Witness Protection Program in the United States?
Posted by plunger at 01/21/2007 @ 03:44am
202-456-1111 -White House Comment Line Call and say that you fully SUPPORT George Bush's NEW PLAN FOR THE DEPLOYMENT OF 20,000 MORE TROOPS IN IRAQ!!!! Comment by Sir Greg Nevins -- January 11, 2007 @ 5:43 am
This is an Israeli Hasbara Operative - take that to the bank. This is 100% Israel's War. The online "Hasbara" program is a Mossad Operation. Read and learn:
HELP!!!!!!!! I'm SURROUNDED by NAZI'S over at the "UN VETO" thread! I can REALLY use some SUPPORT there. By: bluestateman on November 12, 2006 at 05:11am
Note the emphasis of the word SUPPORT above? As in: Give Israel Your United SUPPORT (GIYUS). YOU'RE TOTALLY BUSTED Look at this:
"We need 100,000 Megaphone users to make a difference. So, please distribute this mail to all Israel's supporters.
Do it now. For Israel. Amir Gissin - Director Public Affairs (Hasbara) Department. GIYUS currently claims 24,000 Megaphone users." http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/09/06/giyus_megaphone/
Click here: http://www.eretz.com/NEW/ Scroll down to this: GIYUS.ORG - Give Israel Your United Support
"Many of us recognize that the internet is the new battleground for Israel's image. Now is the time to improve our efforts on this front by better coordinating our on-line efforts. An Israeli software company has developed a free, safe, and useful tool for this purpose: the Internet Megaphone. Please go to www.giyus.org and download the megaphone. You will then receive daily updates with links to important internet polls, problematic articles that require a response, and more."
"PROBLEMATIC ARTICLES?" Oh - you mean TRUTHFUL! Yeah, that's a problem - when you're a FALSE FLAG TERRORIST. There is no way to trust any news out of Israel - or the US Government for that matter.
Hasbara is specifically designed to promote the Likud's goals - not advance the truth: Nathan Guttman has characterized hasbara as "pro-Israel propaganda, " while Avi Hyman has said "while propaganda strives to highlight the positive aspects of one side of a conflict, hasbara seeks to explain actions, whether or not they are justified." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasbara
HASBARA IN ACTION: For detailed studies of the fabrications of groups like CAMERA and MEMRI, visit: http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,773258,00.ht ml This is must reading about MEMRI and its "credibility" http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1869.shtml http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article445.shtml http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article7.shtml http://www.abunimah.org/features/020815memri.html http://electronicintifada.net/features/mediaonmedia/20010821camera.html http://www.abunimah.org/features/000403camera.html http://santacruz.indymedia.org/feature/display/13401/index.php
MEGAPHONE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaphone_desktop_tool
Posted by plunger at 01/21/2007 @ 03:46am
Three years ago, I too viewed "conspiracy theories" regarding 9/11 as outrageous. Having since conducted literally thousands of hours of my own research - not any more.
The bottom line is that 9/11 REQUIRED a conspiracy, regardless of who you believe did it. The word "conspiracy" is a legal term. Larry Franklin and AIPAC conspired to transfer secret information on Iran to Israel. Scooter Libby and Dick Cheney conspired to out Valerie Plame as a CIA Agent. Jack Abramoff was charged with, among other things, "conspiracy."
In your writing, you clearly stated that you "WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH." This single statement is the key to solving any crime. Until EVERY American really comes to that conclusion, the government and the media will continue to have us under their spell.
How many times have you ever heard the words "conspiracy theory" used by the government or the media in a positive light? How about NEVER? Yet we all watch the who-done-it movies and TV shows that virtually REQUIRE the investigators to have a theory about the conspiracy in order to solve the crime.
Having a theory about a conspiracy cannot be an inherently bad thing, yet we've all been conditioned since the Kennedy assassination to believe that EVERY theory about a conspiracy is inherently unpatriotic, insane, wacko - or whatever other negative adjective the Media and the government have conditioned us to believe. How did we all come to accept that only the law enforcement community has the where with all to "think like a criminal" - investigate the means, motive and opportunity, understand whether multiple players might be involved (the very definition of "conspiracy"), and develop a THEORY about the most logical explanation with respect to who committed the crime, and why?
It is a fact that five Mossad Agents were arrested in New York on 9/11, after having been witnessed celebrating (Google: "Dancing Israelis"). Who else celebrated in New York on 9/11? Shouldn't we start to unravel the thread right there?
This one incident is the beginning of a path of logic that DOES NOT FIT the official government explanation of 9/11. This was the starting point for all of my research. How is it that five foreign agents were apprehended, found to have explosive, cash and box-cutters in their possession, were interrogated for six weeks, failed seven polygraph tests, and were quietly released by Israeli Citizen, Michael Chertoff?
Forget everything else you know or think you know about 9/11 and explain that single incident. You can't. It Happened. It can only mean one thing.
Now - WHO WANTS TO KNOW THE TRUTH? How badly do you want to know? Pull the thread - and the entire story quickly unravels.
Means: (Sysplan, Ptech, Comverse, Mitre, Raytheon) Motive: PNAC Implementation Opportunity: Installation of NeoCon Cabal
The conspiracy was primarily between Likud (and their agents within the United States - Wolfowitz, Feith, Libby, Wurmser, Ledeen, Zelikow, Rhode, Rove, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Miller, Zakheim, Alexander, etc.) and the GHW Bush controlled CIA and Shadow Government.
GHW Bush is the largest drug dealer on earth. He uses CIA aircraft to run drugs. Afghanistan just had a bumper crop for ol "Poppy." This is one of the means by which the globalists are able to fund their agenda outside of the Congressional budget process. Congress has been totally neutered. they DO NOT control the spending of the Shadow Government. While acting as "Comptroller" at DOD in the months prior to 9/11, Dov Zakheim stole $7 TRILLION and off-shored it to Israel. THAT'S YOUR MONEY.
Are you a coincidence theorist - or would you prefer to know the truth?
Posted by plunger at 01/21/2007 @ 03:48am
The financial links between those who lied, and those who benefited as a direct result of the lies (primarily in the oil and military industries - to say nothing of Israel) are clear. The evidence that the President's speech knowingly included a lie about the Niger Yellow Cake is proveable in a court of law under oath.
That the Vice President knew for a fact that the claim was based on a forgery in advance of the President's speech is a given (he ordered that the forgery be created and sent Ledeen to do it). That he instructed others to ensure that the sentence made it into the speech is also a given. What did the Vice President know, and when did he know it?
Every time the Vice President knowingly lied to the American People to advance the cause of war, he committed a crime against the United States which both directly harmed other US citizens and directly enriched himself.
Indict Dick Cheney for Fraud. Section 1031. Major fraud against the United States
(a) Whoever knowingly executes, or attempts to execute, any scheme or artifice with the intent - (1) to defraud the United States; or (2) to obtain money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, in any procurement of property or services as a prime contractor with the United States or as a subcontractor or supplier on a contract in which there is a prime contract with the United States, if the value of the contract, subcontract, or any constituent part thereof, for such property or services is $1,000,000 or more shall, subject to the applicability of subsection (c) of this section, be fined not more than $1,000,000, or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.
(1) the gross loss to the Government or the gross gain to a defendant is $500,000 or greater; or
(2) the offense involves a conscious or reckless risk of serious personal injury.
The outing of Valarie Plame falls into precisely the same category, as it was specifically designed to ensure that the lead up to war continued apace...
Consummate diplomats like Wilson typically do not speak of "lies." So outraged was Wilson, though, that this bogus story had been used to "justify" an unprovoked war, that he made a point to note that the already proven dishonesty begs the question regarding "what else they are lying about."
It was a double whammy. And, as is now well known, the White House moved swiftly-if clumsily (and apparently illegally)-to retaliate.
It was clear from the start that Vice President Dick Cheney and Kemosabe (Amer. Indian for "Scotter") Libby, as well as Karl Rove, were taking the lead in this operation to make an object lesson of Wilson and his wife.
But there is abundant evidence that senior White House officials were aware of the CIA's doubts regarding the Niger story long before the State of the Union. Nearly a year earlier, in February 2002, the CIA had dispatched former Ambassador Joseph Wilson to Niger to investigate the claim about uranium purchases. When the CIA debriefed him in March, his findings were emphatic: As Wilson explained in a New York Times op-ed on July 6, "It did not take long to conclude that it was highly doubtful that any such transaction had ever taken place." CIA Director George Tenet claimed on July 11 that Wilson was sent to Niger by junior nonproliferation experts at the CIA acting "on their own initiative" and that senior administration officials were unaware of his mission. But this is not true. Wilson was told by CIA officials that the mission had been specifically requested by the office of the vice president. Indeed, Dick Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, told Time magazine that Cheney had "asked a question about the implication of the [uranium] report." And, as Wilson tells The New Republic, "When an executive agency is tasked to find something out and it gets an answer, it goes back to the person who requested it." For the White House to suggest that Cheney's office was unaware of the results of Wilson's inquiry strains credulity.
Moreover, there is strong evidence that the CIA clearly conveyed its doubts about the Niger allegation to the White House on more than one occasion prior to the State of the Union. When Bush wanted to include the claim in an October 7, 2002, speech in Cincinnati, Tenet personally intervened, imploring Condoleezza Rice's National Security Council (NSC) deputy, Stephen Hadley, to cut the allegation from the speech, which he did. The idea that no one involved with the State of the Union was aware of this earlier, emphatic intervention is implausible. And when the latter speech was being written, the CIA again raised questions about the Niger assertion. According to The New York Times, when NSC proliferation staffer Robert G. Joseph called his CIA counterpart, Alan Foley, to ask about including the allegation in the State of the Union, Foley told Joseph the CIA was not confident about the information.
Indict Vice President Cheney. Put him under oath.
Posted by plunger at 01/21/2007 @ 03:49am
The Top 100 Worst Conspiracy Theories....for my pal RESE- (and in HIS style!)
100. Illuminati. The world is going to be taken over by a bunch of Steve Jacksons board games playing nerds who couldn't even intimidate their own little sisters if they tried.
99. The Protocol of All Kinds of Sion There are secret agendas ruling the world politics. Influential financial groups are putting pressure on even the mightiest Presidents of the World to secure things such as making the promised land of Kaanan reserved for the sons of Moses and the neighbouring countries under the supervision of the Seven Sisters. As if world leaders could be made to act like mindless puppies?
98. The Matrix The machines have taken over the world and people have been reduced to inanimate blobs jacked up to computers who runs their lives completely. People get their self image boosted by digital interaction so that they finally lose all self perspecitve about who they really are. Come on - where could you find such peoples?
97. The Patriarchacy This theory states that all men in the world constitutes a conspiracy against all women, while the more truthful state is that all men conspires against all other men in order to get as many women as possible.
96. Capricorn One theme. So man on the moon was just a hoax? Why shouldn't the United States President have balls enough to waste thousands of billions of dollars on teasing the communist Russians instead of giving proper housing and safe schools to his own dispossesed citizens?
Besides, If you think landing on the moon is possible, why don't YOOOOOU try it?
95. Chemitrails. The goverment has a secret plan to make us all impotent and docile by spraying os with poisonous chemicals from aeroplanes from high altitudes. As if the ordinary industrial pollution and TV soap operas wouldn't do that job good enough.
94. Hell Theory stateing that Hell is a lie perpitrated by "the church" to control the masses. Naturaly the person who thought this up is now Satans BITCH.
93. Ice ICE?! Theres no such thing as ice! Ice is just a myth!
92. The Man Theory stating that somewhere "The Man" is keeping you down. Is it the result of some sort of push-down machine? Maybe a suction device or mutant power. No, it was gravity all along. Gravity is what's keeping you down and you better be thankful for that. Outer space is full of robots, mean robots.
91. Mirrors Mirrors don't reflect, they're actually portals to a parallel universe containing people's evil twins. When you're not looking you're evil twin will jump out of the mirror, kill you and take your place.
George Bush is a Grue.90. Russian Reversal In most places the conspiracy manipulates you. In Soviet Union conspiracy still manipulates you. That's why it's a conspiracy.
89. Washed up Stars Internet Meme Conspiracy Jeff Goldblum keeps surveilence over people at the moment of defecation, waiting for just the right moment to signal Patrick Duffy. Duffy's eyebeams will knock to target over. Prone and pantless the target is vulnerable to having his balls eaten by Mr. T. Why is Mr.T eating balls? Only Mahir and the Dancing Baby know for sure.
88. Science Science is all one big conspiracy formulated by Satanist-athiest Charles Darwin to destroy Christianity. Scientists don't actually do research in their labs, they just worship Satan, eat babies, invent new lies and sodomize eachother all day.
87. The Pirate Conspiracy You can't spell conspiracy without "piracy". Think about it.
86. Entry 85 is a lie! Because it is, as you can plainly see for yourself.
85. Entry 86 is the truth! Because it is, as you can plainly see for yourself.
84. France Come on people, no one likes lobsters THAT much.
83. Steve Irwin's Death A man Fucks with Crocs and snakes his entire life, and a tiny fish killed him? No, no no no no no no no. It was the Parrots wot got him.
82. Emo There's no such thing as Emo. It's all a big gag created by Something Awful when they realized they were running out of things to hate. Using some false livejournal accounts, a digital camera and clothing from a thrift shop they created a trend that people could hate despite the fact that it doesn't really exist. Think about it. How much anti-emo sentiment have you come across? Now how many people have you met that actually like emo? Can such a disproportionate amount of hatred for something so trivial be anything more than a practical joke? I'm going to put on some Simple PLan and cut my wrist now, then write a poem about how much I hate everything.
81. World Trade Center 9/11 Attacks Muslim terrorists didn't pilot two jumbo jets into the World Trade Center. Larry Silverstein actually piloted the Twin Towers into the path of two jumbo jets in order to kill the Muslims onboard.
80 Freemasons Freemasons are not actually free, with shipping and handling, the hookup charge, and hidden service charges they actually cost about $50 each.
79 The New Father Christmas There is no New Father Christmas. It is the same old gheezer every year. Krinkenberry, Krinkstein, Kriegsmarine something like that. I don't remember the name right now but it sounds German. His first name is Klaus.
78 The Earth is round Come on anybody who believes that is obviously crazy!...Right?
77 The Hemispherical Canada Mocking Conspiracy Isolated cells of fanatics living in the USA are being supported by South American governments while covertly trying to make Spanish the official language of the United States. This conspiracy reaches from Dora the Explorer on down. The final goal is to make everyone speak Spanish so everyone can make fun of Canada for being the only major country in the landmass that can't speak Spanish. If there is time left Haiti (French) and Trinidad and Tobago (English) will be mocked too.
76 Trinidad and Tobago Tobago Suffers from diasassociative identity disorder and will assume the personality of Trinidad in times of great emotional stress. This was originally developed as a mental defense reflex after suffering severe mental abuse at the hands of Venezuela. Tobago often claims to have witnessesed Trinidad's action though will adamantly refuse that he took part in them and will claia lost time and amnesiac blackouts are a result of low blood sugar.
75 The BBC All creative people aspire to have their work broadcast on the BBC. Occasionally, just occasionally people with no talent whatsoever get the job, kudos, fame, sexy girlfriend, squillions of pounds and as much fame as they can possibly hope for. How does this affect you? You have to sit there and listen to the opinions of this Zee list epsilon-brained nobody who just got lucky... and you thought the days of the casting couch were over.
74 Dick Cheney There is no Dick Cheney. He's really an ex-Mr. Clean spokesman who got fired because he thought the earring was "girly."
42 The meaning of life Life, the Universe and...well...just about everything is totally and utterly meaningless. You live, then you die, then you're dead. That's it.
4. Jesus He never loved you.
3. Democracy You're not going to tell me you actually thought it existed?
2. Guns n Roses Sure they exist. Just a conspiracy why anyone thinks theyre good.
1. Cabal There is no Cabal.
0.5. Water People dont need to drink, were just addicted to the stuff. Tap water only furthers the stereotype that its nessisary. Cve men were well known for not drinking ANY liquids, and they turned out just fine.
Posted by Mask at 01/21/2007 @ 11:04am
Mask, you wrote:
"The messenger IS important. Everything Mondale says is true...
"too bad it's a guy who was part of the LAST disasterous Presidency, who got STOMPED by Reagan, and who couldn't beat a nitwit like Coleman, saying it!"
I see what you are saying but you forget that even Nixon became an elder statesmen later in life and he engaged in criminal activity, Mondale has always been above the board. He may have lost in 1984 and he may not have been able to beat Coleman, but the truth of his words is what matters and transcends the messenger.
Mondale may have had some defeats but he is not a man people think lacks integrity.
Posted by hhemwm at 01/22/2007 @ 02:07am
No one should ever compare Mondale to Cheney. Cheney has no integrity and he lied us into a war that has cost tens of thousands of innocent lives. . . and for what???
None of us here are so cynical as to try and believe for even one minute that a good man and an honest man can be compared in the same breath to a man like Cheney. Plain and simple.
Posted by hhemwm at 01/22/2007 @ 02:10am
Cheney is a war criminal.
Posted by hhemwm at 01/22/2007 @ 02:10am
As is President Bush. He has many lives to account for.
Impeachment would be getting off easy for the president. I blanch when I think of what he must have on his conscience.
Posted by hhemwm at 01/22/2007 @ 02:12am
And this is not a matter of partisanship. If we can no longer evaluate public servants on the basis of their actions and think only in terms of cynical partisan affiliations/loyalties, things are much darker than I would like to believe.
I object to Bush and Cheney because I am a human being who believes in life, in integrity, honesty and peace. This is a war that is based on a lie. And what is horrifying is now we know that the Iraqi government is asking Bush to pull troops out of their country and he will not do it.
Apparently this man now thinks that Iraq is his fiefdom. A majority of Americans want our troops out, the Iraqis want our troops out, our military does not want troop increases and what does it matter? The president will not listen.
Posted by hhemwm at 01/22/2007 @ 02:14am
It is not impossible to see our president as a war criminal. It may be hard for some to believe that the United States could produce one, but that is exactly what has happened. LBJ and Nixon were war criminals as well. But this is even worse.
Posted by hhemwm at 01/22/2007 @ 02:16am
Posted by HHEMWM 01/22/2007 @ 02:07am
But the fact remains, he's the WRONG GUY to be talking. Being "slightly better" or "bad, but not terrible" isn't the kind of bona fides you want in a critic of the Administration. (A fact lost on many here, who think Saddam could offer "valid points" against Bush and Cheney).
AND it's a reminder of the Carter years and linkages to Democrats....stagflation, Soviet expansionism, Iranian theocracy and hostages, "malaise".
Images Speaker Nancy and Harry Reid don't need resurrected.
Posted by Mask at 01/22/2007 @ 09:14am
Well, the hope is that if someone starts talking others will follow.
Posted by hhemwm at 01/22/2007 @ 09:48am
Posted by HHEMWM 01/22/2007 @ 09:48am
The anti-war movement has Chuck Hagel and John Warner, and even Sam Brownback against the "surge"....
THOSE guys against Bush are much more powerful an image than Walter Mondale calling Cheney a lousy Veep!
Posted by Mask at 01/22/2007 @ 10:32am
But the fact remains, he's the WRONG GUY to be talking.
Posted by MASK 01/22/2007 @ 09:14am | ignore this person
You see, that's the 'point' that is so utterly lame. Mr. Mondale got invited to speak at a forum at a university. Apparently Mask, you think...what?...that he should have have ignored his own convictions and kept his mouth?...consulted with the DLC about what he was going to say and asked if they thought he was the 'best person' to carry the message?...what?
He went, he spoke his mind, and what he said was so dead on, even YOU agreed. So good for him...and he has my thanks!
Posted by Lillian at 01/22/2007 @ 1:40pm