The Most Vital Political Statement of 2006

We have entered the ugly season of the political cycle, the time when election day looms close enough that politicians, parties and pundits are willing to utter just about any claim, any innuendo, and libel in order to sway a vote.

Reasonable Americans are understandably inclined to shut off the noise and presume that nothing more of importance can or will be said in the final weeks before the vote.

It is in precisely in such white-hot moments, however, that the statements that matter most are often made. And such is the case with a short article titled "After Pat's Birthday," which appeared Friday morning at the essential online magazine site Truthdig. Since then, the words of Kevin Tillman, the brother of perhaps the most famous casualty of the Bush administration's military adventuring, have ricocheted around the internet faster than the speed of light – a proper rate, as what veteran of the Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts has to say is far more illuminating than anything on offer from the current crop of candidates.

After September 11, 2001, Pat and Kevin Tillman signed up for the U.S. Army. It was an especially dramatic sacrifice for Pat, a player with the Arizona Cardinals football team who turned down a $3.6 million contract to play the next three years with the Cardinals in order to join the Army Rangers in Iraq and then Afghanistan.

Pat Tillman was killed in Afghanistan on April 22, 2004, and received war-hero honors at a memorial service where U.S. Senator John McCain spoke. Supporters of the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, endeavors that by the time of Tillman's death were growing increasingly controversial, sought to spin the football star's sacrifice as evidence of the nobility of the Bush administration's military adventure. Sunshine patriot Sean Hannity swore his allegiance to Tillman on his television program, declaring: "I love him and admire him..." Ann Coulter oozed, "Tillman was an American original: virtuous, pure and masculine like only an American male can be."

The propaganda push eventually fell apart, however, when it was learned that the Pentagon had delayed revealing to Tillman's family the circumstances of his death -- he was shot three times in the head by so-called "friendly fire" and U.S. troops then burned his body armor and uniform in an apparent cover-up attempt -- until after the memorial service, with all its patriotic flourishes and media attention, was finished. Later still, it was revealed that Pat Tillman had during the course of his service become an outspoken critic of the war in Iraq and was in the months before his death urging fellow soldiers not to vote for President Bush's reelection.

Kevin Tillman survived his deployments, and was discharged from the Army in 2005. Now, on the eve of the first national election after that discharge, with "After Pat's Birthday," he has made it clear that he shares his brother's disenchantment with the armchair warriors of the Bush administration and its amen corner in the media.

In so doing, Kevin Tillman has made the most vital political statement of 2006:

It is Pat Tillman's birthday November 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice.... until we get out.

Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat's birthday.

Kevin Tillman's election message -- and, thankfully, with its references to November 7, there can be no question that this is an election message -- is not particularly long. With a little trimming, it might make a compelling radio or television commercial. After all, this is the dose of truth that needs to be administered to voters who are still searching for perspective as they prepare to cast their ballots.

But Kevin Tillman's message ought not be circulated by a campaign committee or a political party. It should be shared, citizen to citizen, first on the internet, but then in phone calls to family members and old friends, in conversations over coffee and along the sideline at the soccer field, in leaflets slipped under the doors of neighbors and handed to one another after church.

This is the message that, unvarnished and unpackaged, can touch the hearts and the minds of voters who -- if they read seriously the words of the brother who made it back – will come to understand that they can and must redeem the American experiment on the day "After Pat's Birthday."

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John Nichols' new book, THE GENIUS OF IMPEACHMENT: The Founders' Cure for Royalism is being published this month by The New Press. "With The Genius of Impeachment," writes David Swanson, co-founder of the AfterDowningStreet.org coalition, "John Nichols has produced a masterpiece that should be required reading in every high school and college in the United States." Studs Terkel says: "Never within my nonagenarian memory has the case for impeachment of Bush and his equally crooked confederates been so clearly and fervently offered as John Nichols has done in this book. They are after all our public SERVANTS who have rifled our savings, bled our young, and challenged our sanity. As Tom Paine said 200 years ago to another George, a royal tramp: 'Bugger off!' So should we say today. John Nichols has given us the history, the language and the arguments we will need to do so." The Genius of Impeachment can be found at independent bookstores and at www.amazon.com

Comments (115)

1. Thanks, "The Nation," for posting and reposting this important message. As soon as I read it the first time (posted by FRANKGRITS in reply to Ms. Vanden Heuvel's "Trudeau (Continued)" post), I immediately called my 2 roommates and 2 houseguests over to the screen and insisted they read it, too. All five of us were speechless.

   I simply can't think of anything at all to say, in response to such a solemn piece of writing, that would matter in the least.

   Posted by liveeasy at 10/20/2006 @ 11:59pm

2. Please keep this at the top of the Blogs section for as long as possible.

   Posted by liveeasy at 10/21/2006 @ 12:00am

3. I'm going to sound like a soulless cretin here, but who is surprised by what happened in Afghanistan? Who is surprised that these certifiable buffoons f-ed up a justifiable response to 9-11 by turning it into a military mission without actually defining the mission or conceiving how success might be defined?

   As a football fan, the first thing I thought when I heard Tillman had enlisted was that he was an idiot. He could have chosen to give his massive salary to the victims of 9-11; instead he decided to be John Wayne rather than Mother Teresa. In no way does his poor decision let the military and our administration off the hook for lying to us and to his family about his death. But signing up for the military at that time was neither courageous nor, ultimately, tragic. It was just stupid to put your life on the line for something about which you could know nothing nor have any control over.

   The real question is how many other parents, siblings, children and friends have been lied to in an attempt to cover up additional incompetence in Afghanistan, or Iraq for that matter. I am glad that Kevin Tillman is speaking out rather than retiring from public view. And what he and his family have suffered is awful. But enlisting at that time was literally like volunteering for a game of Russian roulette: an utterly pointless game where people who touch the trigger die and other who would not dare hold a gun exchange money.

   Posted by tjbehrens1 at 10/21/2006 @ 12:08am

4. And to try to make political hay over this is more than I can take. How few of our politicians failed to have their heads up each others' asses before agreeing to launch our military into Afghanistan? It's just ridiculous. One of these days we will begin to elect people who know stupid and wrong when it hits them in their heads.

   Posted by tjbehrens1 at 10/21/2006 @ 12:11am

5. Posted by TJBEHRENS1 10/21/2006 @ 12:11am

   Read the article in the 9/11 Sports Illustrated about Pat Tillman, and then respond to his actions. Don't apply your belief system to him (or anybody else). From reading the article, it seems that Pat Tillman was one recruit who enlisted for the right reason, and it wasn't some overdeveloped sense of patriotism.

   He and his brother may be the best and most effective spokesmen for the horror that has developed over the past 5 years.

   Posted by Turk33 at 10/21/2006 @ 12:15am

6. i was simply filled with joy at the expression on anne coulter's face when she found out that tillman was reading chomsky before he was killed.......

   Posted by darladoon at 10/21/2006 @ 12:26am

7. Turk,

   I did read extensively about Tillman when the stories of the truth surrounding his death began to come out. And what belief systems should I apply to Tillman or any other person but my own? All I would be left with is patting everyone on the back for a good decision regardless of my strong belief that he/she was completely wrong. Perhaps I could withhold applying my beliefs on Mohammad Atta or bin Laden?

   Sorry. No attaboy from me. Sympathy, absolutely yes. Never should have happened. Never should have been concealed. But in the big picture this is a tiny lie among tremendous and, in many cases, ongoing lies. And couldn't the Tillman family be making the same statements regardless of the loss of Pat?

   I know what this reads like: I sound like an awful SOB. And I don't like that. But this kind of stuff really ticks me off, when people are seemingly unable to grasp the true horror of a situation until they suffer directly. People need to have their eyes opened before they suffer, not just after.

   Posted by tjbehrens1 at 10/21/2006 @ 12:28am

8. You're right - you do sound like a soulless cretin...

   On several occasions I've wondered about those who, like Kevin Tillman, came back from their military service feeling completely disillusioned by the set of events and decisions that sent our military to Afghanistan and Iraq, while never once indicating any bit of regret for their decision to join the military in the first place.

   In this post, Kevin goes further than anyone with whom I've spoken. He admits that he was told, going into the experience, that by signing up he was willingly making himself a pawn in someone else's game...rendering himself voiceless.

   It occurs to me, though, that most all of us have, at some point in our lives, made ourselves a pawn in someone else's game...played by someone else's rules with the hopes of better things to come. Most of us do not end up regretting such decisions.

   I wonder what Kevin Tillman would say (and what Pat Tillman, if he had the chance, would say) if asked whether or not he regrets his choice to join the military.

   If you have never in your life made a decision that you might have later come to regret, than I suppose you might be justified in your soulless judgement of the the Tillman brothers. But I suggest that, in the future, before you judge that someone is an idiot because of a choice they made with his own life, you reflect back on some of the idiotic decisions that you, and I, and everyone else has made in our own lives.

   Posted by liveeasy at 10/21/2006 @ 12:34am

9. On the other hand...if you want to call Bush and Co. a bunch of idiots for the decisions they have made with other people's lives, then you know I'm all for that.

   Posted by liveeasy at 10/21/2006 @ 12:36am

10. On the other hand...if you want to call Bush and Co. a bunch of idiots for the decisions they have made with other people's lives, then you know I'm all for that.

    Posted by LIVEEASY 10/21/2006 @ 12:36am

    Of course, we can always agree on this point. But beware: this puts you in ugly company. ;-)

    Posted by tjbehrens1 at 10/21/2006 @ 12:48am

11. You mean the ugly company of those who call deceased soldiers idiots, without having any clue as that what their motivation may have been for joining the military in the first place?

    Posted by liveeasy at 10/21/2006 @ 01:00am

12. In the end... we want to believe.

    In our god, in our nation, in our family and friends, in ourselves.

    We've been raised to believe in truth and justice.

    We've been taught to believe that we are the good guys.

    and we are.

    This is why the treachery of our current leadership is that much more despicable. They took our beliefs and parroted them back to us like they too believed. But hidden behind their talk, they twisted our beliefs and perverted them. They made America unrecognizable, first to the world, and now to ourselves.

    The three elections that have past before us have been like the sprits in Ebenezer's long cold Christmas Eve. We've seen our past, our present and now our future. And our future is a terrible thing to behold.

    But come the morn we have an election, a chance to start again. One last opportunity to turn back the dark and evil night that awaits us if we stay the course. I hope with the crisp chill of the morning air, the senses of our countrymen will return and we will once again walk out among mankind as good friend and better neighbor.

    We can change our future so that our grandkids don't have to bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity.

    We can undo what has been done

    We can believe again

    Posted by Will C. at 10/21/2006 @ 01:06am

13. Posted by LIVEEASY 10/21/2006 @ 01:00am

    Uh, yeah. Sorry. Didn't mean to step into the Thread of Sancitimony without leaving my cynicism at the door.

    Posted by tjbehrens1 at 10/21/2006 @ 01:11am

14. Posted by WILL C. 10/21/2006 @ 01:06am

    Beautiful post.

    The three elections that have past before us have been like the sprits in Ebenezer's long cold Christmas Eve.

    As one who is only 25 years of age, the three elections that have passed before us have been my entire political life. You can imagine what I feel about politics...the staggering heights of cynicism to which I might rise before I grow old.

    We can undo what has been done...We can believe again

    Your post gives me a hopeful thought to dwell upon as my mind recedes into dreamland. Thanks for that.

    Posted by liveeasy at 10/21/2006 @ 01:17am

15. Posted by TJBEHRENS1 10/21/2006 @ 01:11am

    TJ...this late at night, I can't decide whether or not to take your "Sorry" sarcastically or seriously....

    So I'll just say, apology accepted...I guess...

    G'night.

    Posted by liveeasy at 10/21/2006 @ 01:18am

16. I'm not offended by TJ's comments. All perpectives deserve consideration, and his is certainly valid. I found his take refreshing - and I suspect that the late Pat Tillman might, in retrospect, agree with it.

    B.

    Posted by Blinky at 10/21/2006 @ 02:57am

17. .

    None of this is going to end well. The United States is totally compromised on a global basis.

    ALL of the top politicians are being blackmailed, and GHW Bush is at the top of that list.

    Interpol = Russian Mafia, and they know everything about 9/11. China knows too. The only people who don't know are US citizens.

    Russia was threatening and blackmailing Kobi Alexander over his direct role in 9/11, and the US "brought him in" to the witness protection program weeks ago. The recent claim of his arrest in South Africa is a smoke screen. He's in the US right now - and the Administration is protecting him. He knows EVERYTHING...Comverse Wiretaps, Blackmail, Ptech override of NORAD by Cheney - EVERYTHING.

    Dov Zakheim didn't just "lose track" of billions of dollars of DOD cash, he literally transferred it to Israel - and it wasn't $2.3 Trillion - it was $7 TRILLION! Repeat - ISRAEL HAS $7 TRILLION OF US TAXPAYER DOLLARS STOLEN BY DOV ZAKHEIM - WITH THE COMPLICITY OF RUMSFELD.

    Zakheim's SYSPLAN technology guided the planes to their targets on 9/11. Israel and their paid operatives (the entire Bush Cabinet) attacked America on 9/11. Bin Laden does not exist.

    Rumsfeld and Zakheim looted the US of $7 trillion!!!

    Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush, all of them are ON ISRAEL'S PAYROLL. All of them were directly involved in 9/11, and many foreign intelligence services have them dead-to rights, and are blackmailing them.

    Mel Sembler is evil personified - and involved up to his eyeballs (Niger Forgery).

    The Lieberman, GHW Bush, Cheney, Sembler connection needs to be revealed.

    Mel Sembler hosted a fundraiser for Lieberman recently - EXPOSE THE CONNECTION.

    This is FAR bigger than any election can solve.

    Wild cornered animals - in the headlights.

    .

    .

    Posted by plunger at 10/21/2006 @ 05:44am

18. .

    THE $7 TRILLION HEIST

    WTC 7 was Command Central for the attack on the WTC and the detonations that brought down the Twin Towers.

    Who was in WTC 7 that morning with a front row seat, controlling the action?

    Rudi?

    Rudolph Giuliani Got Warning WTC Towers Were Going To Collapse.

    Giuliani was operating out of Building 7

    ON ABC WITH PETER JENNINGS:

    "We were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was gonna collapse."

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2005/090405gotwarning.htm

    WHO DID RUDI TELL THAT HE GOT THE WARNING?

    DID RUDI ORDER THE TOWERS EVACUATED WHEN HE GOT THE WARNING?

    WHO WARNED RUDI?

    ACTUALLY - IT WAS IN THE SCRIPT THAT HE WAS READING FROM AS HE SAT IN THE WTC7 - 9/11 ATTACK COMMAND CENTER.

    Giuliani was operating out of Building 7 which he evacuated before that too was 'pulled' by means of demolition as Larry Silverstein admitted in a September 2002 PBS documentary.

    LARRY SILVERSTEIN'S CONFESSION:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7750532340306101329&q=silverste in&hl=en

    WTC 7 HAD TO BE DESTROYED IN ORDER TO HIDE THE EVIDENCE THAT THIS WAS THE COMMAND CENTER FOR THE ATTACK –

    AND THE CONTROLLED DEMOLITION OF THE TOWERS,

    AND THE TRANSFER OF $7 TRILLION FROM DOV ZAKHEIM'S US DEFENSE DEPARTMENT BUDGET TO ISRAEL.

    ZAKHEIM RUMSFELD, CHENEY, GHW BUSH, MYERS, AND A LONG LIST OF OTHERS - ALL OF THEM WERE IN ON IT.

    The controlled demolition of the WTC was enabled by the five "Dancing Israeli" Mossad agents (explosives experts) who were caught filming their handywork on 9/11.

    The actual control panel used to demolish the towers was operated from WTC 7. They had front row seats to those leaping to their deaths, as they pushed the buttons that detonated the Thermate charges that destroyed America in accordance with the PNAC doctrine (the NEW PEARL HARBOR) to enable Israel's "ERETZ ISRAEL".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Israel

    READ EVERY LINK:

    http://www.takeourworldback.com/short/israel.htm

    Kobi Alexander's Ptech enabled Cheney to blind NORAD. Alexander is in the witness protection program.

    .

    Posted by plunger at 10/21/2006 @ 07:32am

19. In the generic, the Iraq War will be the issue of the election...and it will result in a 3-4 seat majority for Dems.

    In the specific, key races will still be lost to pro-war Repubs or pro-war Dems.

    And in January 2007, the real debate starts...as House Dems try to figure out HOW to pressure Bush into doing "Murtha".

    Posted by Mask at 10/21/2006 @ 07:46am

20. .

    A N T H R A X

    U S E D

    A G A I N S T

    P O L I T I C A L

    E N E M I E S

    The repeated lie that "we haven't been attacked here since 9/11" is absurd.

    The Anthrax attacks instilled at least as much fear in the American public as did 9/11. Rumsfeld and Cheney made it happen, all under the direction of the REAL PRESIDENT, GW's Father, Bush 41.:

    The anthrax lead RIGHT BACK to the same place the 9/11 funding eventually lead back to: the bowels of the US government. It was PROVEN by the FBI that the anthrax originated from a secret army lab in Fort Dietrich maryland. Funny how the White House was put on Cipro on 9/10 by the same guy (Jerry Hauer) who sent FBI agent John O'neil to die in the towers.

    F L A S H B A C K:

    Conspiracy Flashback to the Ford Administration - and look who is running the ANTHRAX coverup...

    http://www.frankolsonproject.org/Articulations/Script-CodeNameArtichoke. html

    The conspiracy originated at the top, in the White House, initiated by Donald Rumsfeld and Richard Cheney. It had just been learned that the CIA allegedly drugged its employee Frank Olson with LSD before his supposed suicide.

    Rumsfeld and Cheney. Experience with Weaponized Anthrax. Political opponents to keep in line. The world's largest supply at their disposal.

    Means, Motive & Opportunity.

    RESULT: A complicit press, a compliant Congress, and a war. No Questions Asked.

    US DOMESTIC GOVERNMENT SPONSORED TERROR AGAINST THE CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES.

    Daschle: Congress Denied Bush War Powers AND DOMESTIC SPYING in U.S.

    By Barton Gellman Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, December 23, 2005; Page A04

    The Bush administration requested, and Congress rejected, war-making authority "in the United States" in negotiations over the joint resolution passed days after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, according to an opinion article by former Senate majority leader Thomas A. Daschle (D-S.D.) in today's Washington Post.

    Daschle's disclosure challenges a central legal argument offered by the White House in defense of the National Security Agency's warrantless wiretapping of U.S. citizens and permanent residents. It suggests that Congress refused explicitly to grant authority that the Bush administration now asserts is implicit in the resolution.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/22/AR2

    And then...a few weeks later...

    W A S H I N G T O N, Nov. 1 A group of military scientists is feverishly examining the microscopic spores of anthrax sent to Sen. Tom Daschle for clues to a mystery that could have profound implications for the United States and its ongoing war on terror: Who made it?

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92006&page=1

    Posted by plunger at 10/21/2006 @ 08:09am

21. Well, we should support our troops!

    Lets make Tillmans sacrifice mean something. Vote the repube bums OUT!!

    Posted by crabwalk at 10/21/2006 @ 10:02am

22. http://www.gocomics.com/doonesbury/

    Posted by crabwalk at 10/21/2006 @ 10:18am

23. The message Kevin Tillman is so eloquently conveying is one of accountability. Republicans must not be allowed to prevail this November 7th. Otherwise the message received will be: we can wage a war under false pretense and get away with it. The best way to honor Pat Tillman's memory and others who made the supreme sacrifice is to vote the bums out.

    Intrepid Liberal Journal

    Posted by trebor007 at 10/21/2006 @ 10:32am

24. As far as "anti-war" votes go...I may have to revise ONE prediction though (my "Lamont pulls it out" one)...

    latest Quinnipiac has Lieberman over Lamont by SEVENTEEN points!

    two weeks out...that's a bit hard to overcome for Ned the Head!

    Posted by Mask at 10/21/2006 @ 11:11am

25. After reading the ramblings of Pat Tillman's brother Kevin, I was reminded of Ron Kovic, of "Born on the fourth of July" fame, whose pain and sacrifices in Vietnam made him rabidly opposed to that war, and the government he served. But, there's another similarity: Like Kovic, he served 2 combat tours, and I have to ask, why didn't either man speak out, or declare himself a pacifist after the first tour? I mean, why didn't Kovic oppose the war before his terrible injuries, which occured on his second tour? And, why didn't Kevin Tillman speak out against the war before his brother's untimely death, only after?

    I don't doubt that Kevin Tillman's pain and bitterness are genuine, nor should anyone. But, then again, neither should we be blinded by the fact that it is misdirected. If Kevin Tillman can't forgive himself for not talking his brother out of enlisting, then perhaps someone needs to remind him that Pat accepted the risks when he took the oath.

    And, someone needs to tell the editors of The Nation that exploiting a distraught man's grief for the sake of a headline is contemptable; that it was published under the auspices of helping defeat the republicans invokes the only principal of the unprincipaled, that is that that the end justifies the means. Say it ain't so, Katrina!

    Posted by davebarlett at 10/21/2006 @ 1:16pm

26. TJ, you have my profoundest respect for that post.

    the misadministration had no qualms in politicizing the death of Tillman. it is the height of hypocrisy to accuse the anti war movement of doing the same.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 10/21/2006 @ 1:23pm

27. Bartlett, it doesn't matter when a person speaks out, but rather that he speaks out against this abominable war.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 10/21/2006 @ 1:24pm

28. sorry, Barlet

    Posted by johannesrolf at 10/21/2006 @ 1:25pm

29. And in January 2007, the real debate starts...as House Dems try to figure out HOW to pressure Bush into doing "Murtha".

    another dishonest post. the repubs have been falling all over each other to find a way to withdraw the troops from Iraq. the pressure to withdraw has become truly bipartisan.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 10/21/2006 @ 2:02pm

30. Zero, why do you still feel shocked about everything that's going on?

    In my opinion, Congress is wholly responsible for giving its authorization for war along with the huge price tag. You don't put up that kind of investment, and not seek any returns. They are the only ones that have the power to hold the President in check. Not the other way around. And, it seems to me they were more in favor of stirring things up then they let on. I'm just about certain the most powerful in Congress were hoping to make a fast buck and hightail it out of both countries before anybody took a hard look at what they were doing.

    And, now that the war has taken so many twists and turns, and their profits not so much, Congress collectively decided to doubleback on the trail and come from behind and stab the President in the back for instigating the whole war and "not revealing everything or lying" to save their own hides from getting voted out of office. Right now they're laughing because they played both ends against the middle.

    If you or anyone else is really serious about stopping all of the shenanigans in US Federal Government as a whole, then start a petition to limit both elected parties to 2 terms in office. Ask yourself this question, if the Constitution limits the presidency to 2 terms, then why are there no consitutional amendments to limit the legislative and judicial branches the same way?

    You feel me?...Holla back...

    Posted by ACook at 10/21/2006 @ 3:32pm

31. Oh, and definately start a petition to stop all lobbying in the Federal, state and local levels.

    Peace.

    Posted by ACook at 10/21/2006 @ 3:33pm

32. The Tillman letter is a moving and thought provoking statement. It makes me wonder how anyone can be 'pro-Iraq-war'?

    And yet, when some people speak, even in some of the posts on THIS VERY THREAD, they 'somehow' manage to convey a most palpable glee in the fact that there are 'anti-Iraq-war' candidates who are poised to lose their respective votes.

    "Somehow' that just seems incredibly sad and pathetic.

    Posted by Lillian at 10/21/2006 @ 4:56pm

33. Zero, I still say, Congress isn't naive. Their power is immense. They do not take the approach to "war" lightly. If they aren't getting anything out of it, no troops get deployed. Just look back a few years, we did nothing about Rhwanda and the former President was dogged for going around Congress and asking NATO to help stop the bloodshed in the former Yugoslavia. Congress was very angry that 60K active US troops were involved. Think about it....

    The intellegence committeess in both the house and senate saw everything. They poured over a decades worth of resources and manpower into keeping the "Butcher of Baghdad" away from the Shias and the Kurds. The call to get rid of Saddam was on the table well before President Bush came into office. Even the former President Clinton wanted to get rid of him.

    However, Congress saw a long time ago that they were'nt getting any returns...oops, I mean results...the "diplomatic way", (you know the story, "more oil for your country, if you keep the dictator away and we'll get rid of him" kind of promise from Chalabi!) so, they said 'Screw this shit! You Iraqies owe us because you haven't made good on your promise to get rid of that son-of-bitch dictator. As a matter of fact, we're going to come in and kick your asses for wasting our time and money!!!"

    I'm not trying to change your mind or anyone elses mind about GWB but this story has many facets to it. To say that this President is the worst of all is based on the left's bias. Remember, the extremist brought the fight to us, not us to them. Regardless to how they felt about our foreign policies, they had to right to attack us repeatly.

    Posted by ACook at 10/21/2006 @ 5:23pm

34. Ooops...I meant they had no right to attack us...sorry for the poor sentence.

    Posted by ACook at 10/21/2006 @ 5:49pm

35. As I read brother Tillman's words and understood his grief and anger, not only because of my own brother's problems with Vietnam, but also as a father now with a 21 and a 16 year old that very well may get pulled into this if as hsuB says he's into it no matter what for the long haul. The mention of a draft stopped me cold a couple of years ago, but there hasn't been mention of that in a while especially since repubs have been questioning the sanity of 'stay the course'. But what if that's only repub election drivel?

    http://www.drudgereport.com/flash7.htm

    What if the repubs retain the congress by whatever means without anothe election for another 2? Then what? Even as the polls all show over-whelmingly dem numbers, there is a part of me that does not trust our election process. Hope is a spark at the end of the tunnel. But as in Peanuts, what if the football gets pulled away just as Charlie Brown is about to kick it, again. All I can see is that the only logical next time-- the aim will not, nor should it be, the football. Speaking as a patriot to our country and not the "unchallenged parasites." We better en masse challenge the hell out of these monsters.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 10/21/2006 @ 7:29pm

36. What if the repubs retain the congress by whatever means without anothe election for another 2? Then what?

    Posted by HSUBFOOLS 10/21/2006 @ 7:29pm

    Then the thing we know as America dies...and something else will take it's place.

    Posted by Will C. at 10/21/2006 @ 9:19pm

37. Just one last point or two:

    please don't ever call anyone who has worn the uniform and offered his life in the service of his country stupid. Put the blame squarely where it belongs. It belongs in the Oval Office and in the halls of Congress. It doesn't belong on the ground in either Iraq or Afghanistan.

    Posted by FRANKGRITS 10/21/2006 @ 9:50pm

    I know where you are coming from, but in any other career choice it would be considered stupid to work for a company run by a half-wit. Just because one chooses to "do one's duty and serve his country" does not excuse him from considering from whom he is ultimately taking his orders and whether those orders have any chance of a successful outcome. I get weary of the immunity those who serve in the military are supposed to have from judgment about their decisions. I've made poor decisions during my life and career, and will be the first to call some of them stupid--embarrassingly so. Even recognizing that Tillman was not a true Rambo wannabe and even if he had completed his tour(s) unscathed, his decision to enlist was rash, to be kind. I thought so at the moment it was announced and no more so when his death was announced. Awful, tragic and unnecessary: just the type of sensitive thing for two-bit politicians to hype in lieu of substantial ideas.

    Posted by tjbehrens1 at 10/21/2006 @ 11:33pm

38. Posted by TJBEHRENS1 10/21/2006 @ 11:33pm

    So what you're saying (and have been saying) TJ is that you are a pacifist and that these militaristic jingoists may as well be in the GOP.

    One doesn't need to be as bright as you to draw that conclusion but it's nice to have one's suspicions about these frauds confirmed (also by that ex-European pacifist).

    The thought does occur that once the Dems take over Congress and set about beefing up the war effort to stick it up old Rummy, these types will be right behind such a repectable war with flags, bells, whistles and versed doggerel (re Willie's "sanctimonious" sermon).

    Can see why you're concerned.

    Posted by lrjones4 at 10/22/2006 @ 12:10am

39. The thought does occur that once the Dems take over Congress and set about beefing up the war effort to stick it up old Rummy, these types will be right behind such a repectable war with flags, bells, whistles and versed doggerel (re Willie's "sanctimonious" sermon).

    Posted by QuagmireJONES4 10/22/2006 @ 12:10am

    oh quagmire, are you saying that we are not the good guys. That we don't want to believe in our god, in our nation, in our friends and family... in ourselves?

    Are you saying our beliefs haven't been twisted and perverted by our current leadership?

    Are you saying that we are doomed to the future that you hamsters have created and that our elections mean nothing anymore?

    The only way I could be holier than thou is if that is what you are saying

    But then… that goes without saying

    Posted by Will C. at 10/22/2006 @ 01:00am

40. and dummy... I'm guessing that you are clueless because you live on the other side of the world, but ever since john warner came back from Iraq...

    we're not talking about beefing up the war effort

    Posted by Will C. at 10/22/2006 @ 01:01am

41. Posted by RIO BRAVO 10/22/2006 @ 12:48am

    so what you're sayin than rio, is that chimpy would sign them.

    nice job in electing the chimp buddy

    Posted by Will C. at 10/22/2006 @ 01:08am

42. Ha Ha Ha Ha

    Posted by Will C. at 10/22/2006 @ 01:10am

43. Not entirely a pacifist, but I admit to being close. It just so happens that I believe invasions of countries that do not threaten my country's existence in any way to be well over the line of reason, or even sanity. I don't give a crap about which party is in charge because both have long histories of getting all jazzed up with the power of the president and a powerful military machine. During the 40 years of my existence, I see no legitimate reason why our military should have participated in any war. While there have been civil wars that have led to humanitarian crises, these were moments for the US to flex its diplomatic muscle first to coerce the international community to respond as one to stem the bloodshed. And we have failed during those moments, looking for cheap military victories for maximum political glory rather than addressing true threats and suffering. Unfortunately there are only so many Grenadas in the world begging for our might to make things right.

    Posted by tjbehrens1 at 10/22/2006 @ 01:14am

44. If Democrats retake Congress in the November elections, investors predict that the ability of the US dollar to remain strong will fall, Reuters reports

    Posted by RIO BRAVO 10/22/2006 @ 01:47am

    rio

    this administration has taken the weak dollar approach

    Posted by Will C. at 10/22/2006 @ 02:34am

45. that democrat Bill Clinton was the strong dollar man

    Posted by Will C. at 10/22/2006 @ 02:35am

46. and why would we need furners to finance our national debt if we once again start paying it down...

    as opposed to what you conservatives do, ballon it

    Posted by Will C. at 10/22/2006 @ 02:37am

47. Posted by TJBEHRENS1 10/22/2006 @ 01:14am

    TJ,

    I think you are a person of genuine convictions, who has heart and I hear what you are saying. There are many others with convictions, which have about as much depth as an attachment to a sporting team.

    I think I'm a "theoretical" pacifist who, perhaps paradoxically, has a pretty dim view of human nature (maybe a product of my Calvinistic childhood and a cursory glance at the last few centuries of the belligerence of those nations that were heirs of the Enlightenment) thus in my reckoning armies and soldiers are a necessary evil. On that basis it is easier for me than for you, I guess, to be beguiled by a good argument for a just war.

    Posted by lrjones4 at 10/22/2006 @ 03:41am

48. "oh quagmire, are you saying that we are not the good guys. That we don't want to believe in our god, in our nation, in our friends and family... in ourselves?"

    Hi Willie, think I'll reserve judgement on that one until I know a bit more about your god, your friends and your family.

    "Are you saying our beliefs haven't been twisted and perverted by our current leadership?"

    Can't really tell. Probably depends on how shaky your attachment to your beliefs was before they were subjected to those ravaging influences.

    "Are you saying that we are doomed to the future that you hamsters have created and that our elections mean nothing anymore?"

    We hamsters are devious sneaky bastards so I ain't tellin'. (Check it out with Rese).

    "The only way I could be holier than thou is if that is what you are saying

    But then… that goes without saying"

    Deep bro deep. (wish the bloody hell I knew what you were talking about).

    And that other question. Just because you are the local bagman for the Party doesn't mean that they will tell you all the dirty deals they plan to do with the Chief Hamster.

    Willie you are a school teacher aren't you? Bet you got the kids to do that mini essay. Sort of not your style. Sounds more like hamster stuff.

    Posted by lrjones4 at 10/22/2006 @ 04:24am

49. Posted by RIO BRAVO 10/22/2006 @ 01:47am

    Rio,

    The US economy is really going gangbusters at the moment by just about any measure.

    From memory your current government deficit is less than two percent of GDP, which is historically low. The worry is your trading account deficit and that has more to do with trade liberalisation than anything else. The good thing about it is that the holders of that debt (trading nations) are beholden to US markets and are not likely to want to bail out.

    Australia, which has removed some tariffs and reduced others also runs a fairly high current account deficit but has been running high government surpluses over the last decade.

    Tax cuts in Australia as in your country have helped produce historically high government receipts as workers have been spending up. That has helped (along with a resources boom) produce record profits for companies. The greatest percentage increase in revenues has come from (30% rate) company tax. Which, as I remember, is what is significantly filling your government coffers as well.

    Posted by lrjones4 at 10/22/2006 @ 05:05am

50. .

    CHRIS MATTHEWS - PAY ATTENTION!!!

    John McCain sat on stage with you in Iowa at a university and used your show and your name as a platform for recruiting cannon fodder.

    As he sat next to you, he did so with the CERTAIN KNOWLEDGE that 300 US servicemen had just been killed in the "FORWARD BASE FALCON" disaster - and that nearly all of our ammunition and special fuels had been destroyed.

    McCain also has certain knowledge that then DOD Comptroller Dov Zakheim stole $7 trillion in Defense Department funds and shipped it off to Israel - where some has been round-tripped into bribes and blackmail operations against the leaders of the United States - many of whom are compromised for their foreknowledge of and/or complicity in the 9/11 attacks...and the rest are simply blackmailed for their immoral and illegal behavior.

    McCain - your complicity with AIPAC / Israel ends here. How much blood money is enough?

    Chris Matthews - you are either with US or against US.

    If you continue to shill for them, and coverup the truth for from those you purport to serve - the American People - your father will never forgive you, and neither will we.

    It's time, Chris. Take a lesson from Olbermann.

    I'm with the Americans.

    You?

    .

    Posted by plunger at 10/22/2006 @ 06:25am

51. Posted by FRANKGRITS 10/22/2006 @ 08:49am

    Good morning, Frank. These and your other good comments help temper my beliefs. I know a few parents of young men who enlisted post 9/11 and went on to Iraq. These parents were proud of their sons' decisions to the point that one of the fathers was seriously considering re-upping (in his early 40s) to join his son. These people have a form of attachment to this country that is completely different from mine. The attachment seems equally positive and negative to me; sacrifice is a noble thing, but when it reaches the point that you are within a stone's throw of signing the suicide bomber's contract without reading it, I worry. Fortunately, these parents, like you, have welcomed their sons home physically intact. However, one of them left a vital portion of his psycholgical well-being in Iraq. And neither a virgin nor a parade has been offered as partial restitution.

    Posted by tjbehrens1 at 10/22/2006 @ 09:19am

52. I thought this an apt copy/paste about stupidity and our conduct in the Eastern Hemisphere, from today's NYT:

    In an interview with Al-Jazeera television aired late Saturday, Alberto Fernandez, director of public diplomacy in the Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs at the State Department offered an unusually candid assessment of America's war in Iraq.

    ''We tried to do our best but I think there is much room for criticism because, undoubtedly, there was arrogance and there was stupidity from the United States in Iraq,'' he said.

    ''We are open to dialogue because we all know that, at the end of the day, the solution to the hell and the killings in Iraq is linked to an effective Iraqi national reconciliation,'' he said, speaking in Arabic from Washington. ''The Iraqi government is convinced of this.''

    State Department spokesman Sean McCormack, in Moscow with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, later said that Fernandez disputes the description of his comments.

    ''What he says is, that is not an accurate reflection of what he said,'' McCormack said. Asked whether the Bush administration believes that history will show a record of arrogance or stupidity in Iraq, McCormack replied ''No.''

    A senior Bush administration official questioned whether the remarks had been translated correctly.

    "Translated correctly"? This stupid response, from the administration which has trademarked the expression "What he meant to say was...". This arrogant response, from the administration that created the leak-and-deny method of conversing with the press.

    Posted by tjbehrens1 at 10/22/2006 @ 09:30am

53. By the way, ESPN.com now has the AP story of Kevin Tillman as a headline on its site this morning.

    Posted by tjbehrens1 at 10/22/2006 @ 09:44am

54. SURPRISE:

    October Already Deadliest Month Of '06

    Death Toll Climbs For American Troops And Iraqi Civilians

    WASHINGTON, Oct. 22, 2006

    CBS/AP) Bombs ripped through crowds of shoppers stocking up on sweets and other delicacies ahead of the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Fitr, killing at least five people, police said Sunday.

    VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

    American officials said the Bush administration will present Iraq's prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, with a timetable aimed at giving Iraq's military greater control of its security, the New York Times reports. Specific milestones, such as disarming sectarian militias, would be included in the timetable, the officials said.

    So far this month, an average of about 43 Iraqis have been killed each day, according to an Associated Press count. That compares to an average daily death toll of about 27 since April 2005. The AP count includes civilians, government officials and police and security forces, and is considered a minimum based on AP reporting.

    The actual number is likely higher, with many killings left unreported. The United Nations estimates about 100 Iraqi civilians are killed each day.

    Alongside the soaring death toll among Iraqis, 78 U.S. troops have died this month, surpassing the year's previous monthly high of 76 in April. With more than a week left in the month, October is on course to be the deadliest month for American service members in two years, a development U.S. officials blame partly on the increased vulnerability of American forces during a major two-month security sweep in Baghdad.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/22/iraq/main2112918.shtml

    The hsuB admin is so full of shit it smells even when I hold my nose. The problem as always, are those that actually enjoy the smell and see it as an art project while they play with it...

    Posted by hsuBfools at 10/22/2006 @ 10:58am

55. "... the last few centuries of the belligerence of those nations that were heirs of the Enlightenment)"

    Posted by LRJONES4 10/22/2006 @ 03:41am

    Was staying out of this one...just reading along. But I have to ask; can you explain/clarify that statement?

    Eric

    Posted by Malcontent at 10/22/2006 @ 11:46am

56. Posted by RIO BRAVO 10/22/2006 @ 1:05pm

    I believe, the word you meant to fomit up, was "foment".

    Posted by Malcontent at 10/22/2006 @ 1:10pm

57. Mal,

    Maybe he is both foaming at the mouth and vomiting his particular brand of hatred....hence "fomit"

    Posted by leftofcenter at 10/22/2006 @ 1:24pm

58. Hi Willie, think I'll reserve judgment on that one until I know a bit more about your god, your friends and your family.

    Posted by LRJONES4 10/22/2006 @ 04:24am

    Hi quagmire. Since you've just admitted you don't know enough about our god, our nation, our family and friends (which would also mean you don't know much about ourselves) to pass any judgments, that pretty much makes this and every other assertive post you leave here...

    ignorant

    Ha Ha Ha Ha

    But keep up the good work dummy. You do wonderful job demonstrating that the hamsters grow em just as schtoopid in australia as they do here.

    Posted by Will C. at 10/22/2006 @ 2:31pm

59. Posted by RIO BRAVO 10/22/2006 @ 3:42pm

    my favorite one was when you said

    It is about HATERED for the American intervention in the middle east specifically our taking the opposition to Islamic terrorism HOME to their region of influence after their attacks against our nation and its people.

    Posted by RIO BRAVO 10/22/2006 @ 1:05pm

    what's funny about it is that saddams iraq one one of the few places in the middle east where evangleic "muslims" had almost no influence.

    until you hamsters gave them an in.

    Nice goin dummy's

    Posted by Will C. at 10/22/2006 @ 3:47pm

60. "one one" correction... was one

    Posted by Will C. at 10/22/2006 @ 3:49pm

61. I think that the only thing people really learn from is events, and in the United States, most people- including the so-called liberal left- are only going to learn how foul this political culture is after the democrats continue to pursue this war, with their usual pious asides. Four years from now, short of an actual independent political movement, the war in the Middle East will drag on, because neither side of the aisle wants to seriously re-examine our wretched foreign policy there. Too much money in the mix. Too great a willingness of the public, thus far, to endure this criminality. Events will teach us. Bankruptcy will teach us, police state politics will teach us. Nothing else will, I'm afraid. We're just too good, too weaned on the myths of American exceptionalism, to understand that the political culture has succumbed to investor imperialism, political gangsterism, and bread and circus politics. But it has happened here. And it is only great trauma, great reverses, that will teach us to challenge this mess.

    Posted by hureaux at 10/22/2006 @ 4:52pm

62. Well Rio, let's go back upthread a mite : Posted by RIO BRAVO 10/22/2006 @ 12:48am, where you reprint a tale spun on an obviously right-wing "FauxNews Wannabe" CNSNews.com. There they tell the terrible tales of liberals wanting horrid things like equal rights, adequate health care for the US populace, betterment of labor practices, and the spectre of fiscal responsibility at the Fed leve (the fruits of which, I might remind you, was the Clinton legacy that Dubya squandered meaningllessly).

    Oh sure, there are some few pieces that give some semblance of balance to the site, but the tripe you quote - snippets of legislative items taken out of context and woven together with the typical GOP threads of fear and suspicion take good intentions and twist them into what they aren't.

    Bravo, Bravo, for staying true to your colors. Its good to know where you stand - in the corner shrieking at what you don't agree with or can't understand as being something evil and unAmerican. We on the left, however, know better. This is why the Dem message now is "Strong and Smart" as opposed to your side's "Strong but Wrong" agenda for these 6 years.

    Posted by leftofcenter at 10/22/2006 @ 5:43pm

63. Rio, you have a twisted outlook.

    Sad.

    Posted by crabwalk at 10/22/2006 @ 7:16pm

64. Barron's saying that Repubs will hold the Congress.

    Who knows? I kinda doubt it.

    One thing, if they do....we may finally be done with PLUNGER and RESE posts. Can't expect an impeachment if the GOP holds the House.

    Posted by Mask at 10/22/2006 @ 7:45pm

65. Already I'm reading these stories of vote rigging before we even get close to voting. It's like fore shadowing of weirdness to come. All I know is if the polls are putting a dem ahead somewhere by 10-15 or 15-20 points and the repub pulls it out of his ass at the last minute and none of the numbers add up-- bet is there's going to be a knew type of revolutionary war. One in which this king finds he has no army backing him up anymore.

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    A loaves & fishes/Holy Ghost victory for the GOP in November?

    By Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman Online Journal Guest Writers

    Oct 20, 2006, 01:16

    VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

    Which is brings us to the Holy Ghost turnout. As Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., has reported in Rolling Stone Magazine, in Georgia 2002, U.S. Senate incumbent Max Cleland went into Election Day with a very substantial lead in the polls. He proceeded to allegedly lose by a substantial margin. Church-state operatives like Ralph Reed attributed this astonishing turn-around to an alleged last-minute mass turnout of evangelical voters.

    Similar things were said about Florida and Ohio 2004.

    But it never happened. There are no visual reports or other reliable indicators of extraordinary lines or massive late-in-the-day crowds at the polls. Throughout all those election days, it was every bit as quick and easy to vote in rural precincts that gave Bush his miraculous victory as it was impossible to do so in your average black neighborhood. But there was no extraordinary turnout of last-minute Bush voters.

    What happened instead hearkens to the Holy Ghost, made manifest in electronic voting machines that cannot and will not be monitored. The miraculous pro-Bush margins give new meaning to the phrase "ghost in the machine." While the Democratic vote count was slashed and trashed in urban precincts, the rural voting stations, through the miracle of untrackable electronics, materialized just the right number of GOP votes to keep the Men of God in the White House (where it's recently reported they dare to mock those earthly evangelicals who allegedly gave them their margin of victory).

    There's absolutely nothing to prevent this from happening again in 2006. Major studies from the Conyers Committee, the Government Accountability Office, Princeton University, the Brennan Center, the Carter-Baker Commission, and esteemed others, have all come to the same conclusion: it takes just one individual with inside access -- or even just a wi-fi machine -- to change the outcome of any election anywhere.

    Electronic voting machines can be preprogrammed, reprogrammed, recalibrated, electronically adjusted, hacked, jimmied, jammed or otherwise blessed with a few well-placed electrons and -- LO AND BEHOLD! -- a Democratic landslide can be born again to a Republican deliverance.

    We already see the signs. The corporate bloviators predict a last-minute surge for Bush. The Fox/Rove media machine has planted suggestive stories at the New York Times and elsewhere about the alleged hidden powers of the GOP juggernaut. They will, they say, once again turn out those invisible legions of evangelical voters when and where necessary.

    Every two years, Rove leaks some story that is implausible and easily refuted: 4 million new evangelical voters are identified nationwide; or, a late surge of homophobic Old Order Amish rush to the polls in Ohio; or shy and reluctant right-wing Republican women flood the polls at closing and slip out unseen without speaking to exit pollsters (but, they are only shy in the early evening in Republican counties).

    And the Democrats? They say they are also turning out voters. But what happens when their names are miraculously gone from the new electronic registration rolls? When there aren't enough machines in their precincts on which to vote? When they press a Democratic name on their touch screen and an anointed Republican's lights up? Or when techno-gods from private partisan vendors barge in unchallenged to "adjust" the e-machines in the middle of the voting process.

    So far, the Democrats have heaped abuse on those who dare to warn of all this.

    But as it is written, so it shall be: unless there are armies of trained, dedicated citizens prepared to monitor this upcoming election, electronic and otherwise, the Holy Ghosts will vote, the loaves & fishes will multiply and be counted, and the GOP will once again emerge with total control of the checks and the balances -- this time, perhaps, for all Eternity.

    http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1336.shtml

    Posted by hsuBfools at 10/23/2006 @ 12:01am

66. After reading Rios account of some of the bills the dems will want to pass, I feel I have to reactivate an overseas account...many of us can't afford a "partner" the lies of Jackson or Waxman and still stay in business.....

    Posted by john maasch at 10/23/2006 @ 12:12am

67. If Democrats retake Congress in the November elections, investors predict that the ability of the US dollar to remain strong will fall, Reuters reports. With Democrats in power, financiers advise foreign investors would be frightened into "cutting back temporarily on buying dollar-denominated assets." Posted by RIO BRAVO 10/22/2006 @ 01:47am | ignore this person

    If you really believe this, then you should buy puts on the dollar. What's a matter, no guts? On the other hand, maybe you think it is un-American to short the dollar in the free market.

    Posted by seattlescribe at 10/23/2006 @ 02:50am

68. Beautiful message...and perfectly expressed...and with the elections after his brothers birthday truly cosmic...

    Posted by tleviness at 10/23/2006 @ 04:15am

69. I'm going to sound like a soulless cretin here, but who is surprised by what happened in Afghanistan? Who is surprised that these certifiable buffoons f-ed up a justifiable response to 9-11 by turning it into a military mission without actually defining the mission or conceiving how success might be defined? Posted by TJBEHRENS1 10/21/2006 @ 12:08am | ignore this person

    I think your posts on Tillman are a candid reflection of your thoughts plus a bit of a desire to stir the pot. Your argument that he was "an idiot" to enlist is a reflection of middle age wisdom and overlooks youthful decision-making processes.

    The elimination of the draft coupled with real shooting wars going on today in Iraq and Afghanistan awaiting fresh cannon fodder puts added pressure on young people to think carefully before signing on the dotted line of a military enlistment contract. Putting aside the brothers Tillman for a minute, generally young people will make some wrong decisions before they begin to develop mature thought processes and a mental framework for making good decisions. When they sign that military enlistment contract, however, it is not like other mistakes a young person can make. This contract is strictly enforced and its fulfillment carries very high risks. It is not like joining the college Republican club.

    Our young people enlist for many reasons including idealism, patriotism, escapism and others. It sounds like Pat Tillman was a thoughtful person. I read somewhere he was motivated to enlist mostly for patriotic reasons, but after seeing reality up front and personal, he questioned the whole premise of our occupation. I think that does make his death a tragedy. Our protagonist was a young vital man motivated by idealism to set aside fame and wealth for a greater good, or so he believed. Later on, battle hardened with first hand experience, truth comes to him like an Aeon from mythology and causes him to awaken. A moment later, it is too late.

    It is unfortunate that the death of this one young man seems to overshadow the deaths of nearly 2800 others. However, in becoming an American tragic figure, Pat Tillman's death makes the argument against Bush's neocon military adventures more palpable.

    Posted by seattlescribe at 10/23/2006 @ 05:01am

70. .

    FALSE FLAG ATTACK COMING ANY DAY…

    BUSH:

    President Bush gently admonished his father for saying he hates to think what life would be like for his son if the Democrats win control of Congress in the November 7 election.

    "He shouldn't be speculating like this, because -- he should have called me ahead of time and I'd tell him they're not going to (win)," a smiling Bush told ABC "This Week"

    http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=politicsNews&storyid =2006-10-22T193206Z_01_N22305445_RTRUKOC_0_US-BUSH-FATHER.xml&src=rss&rp c=22

    WHY ALL THE CONFIDENCE, GEORGE?

    GOT RIGGED ELECTIONS & MARTIAL LAW?

    MC CAIN:

    In an interview with Chris Matthews, John McCain was pressed to explain just where another 100,000 troops are supposed to come from for Iraq:

    "I don't think we need to think of the draft again because I don't think it makes sense in a whole variety of ways. But I guarantee you, if these young people felt that this nation was in a crisis and we asked them to serve, virtually every one of them would stand up because I have the greatest confidence in the young people of America."

    (Transcript at: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15330717/)

    CRISIS?

    WHAT CRISES?

    ARE WE IN A CRISIS, OR ARE YOU FORETELLING ONE?

    See the connection? Both of these men are tipping their hand to a pending "CRISIS" that will solve both the recruitment problem and win (OR CANCEL) the elections.

    JOHN MC CAIN – YOU'VE GOT FOREKNOWLEDGE OF A PENDING ATTACK. EXPOSE IT TO PREVENT IT – OR SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES.

    Is THIS the pending CRISIS?

    http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/104451

    Here is the DRESS REHEARSAL for the sinking of the USS Enterprise:

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-05-17-ship-reef_x.htm

    McCain's Dad covered up Israel's attack on the USS Liberty - is history repeating?

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/margolis12.html

    The stranglehold of AIPAC

    THE ARCHITECTS OF TERROR ARE IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

    WITHOUT TERROR - THEY HAVE NO POWER.

    IT IS THEY WHO ARE ATTACKING US.

    .

    Posted by plunger at 10/23/2006 @ 06:51am

71. .

    ISRAEL'S ATTACK ON "LIBERTY"

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/margolis12.html

    Why did Israel try to sink a naval vessel of its benefactor and ally? Most likely because 'Liberty's' intercepts flatly contradicted Israel's claim, made at the war's beginning on 5 June, that Egypt had attacked Israel, and that Israel's massive air assault on three Arab nations was in retaliation. In fact, Israel began the war by a devastating, Pearl-Harbor style surprise attack that caught the Arabs in bed and destroyed their entire air forces.

    Israel was also preparing to attack Syria to seize its strategic Golan Heights. Washington warned Israel not to invade Syria, which had remained inactive while Israel fought Egypt. Bamford says Israel's offensive against Syria was abruptly postponed when 'Liberty' appeared off Sinai, then launched once it was knocked out of action. Israel's claim that Syria had attacked it could have been disproved by 'Liberty.'

    MC CAIN'S ROLE IN THE COVERUP:

    Liberty Cover-Up and John McCain's Conscience

    Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) is the "Conscience of the Senate." Nevertheless, he won't come clean about what really happened to the USS Liberty, at the hands of the Israelis.

    One of the Navy bigwigs pushing hard for a sanitized Liberty inquiry was none other than Sen. McCain's father, Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., Commander-in-Chief, Naval Forces Europe. He wanted the investigation done in less than a week. Boston said a "proper inquiry would take at least six months." Admiral McCain also wouldn't permit Admiral Kidd to travel to Israel or to contact any potential Israelis witnesses. In fact, according to Boston, the written affidavits of 60 witnesses from the Liberty itself, who were hospitalized at the time of the restricted Inquiry, were also excluded from the final report and not considered as part of the evidentiary record. Boston is convinced, too, that the Israelis' machine-gunning of the Liberty's lifeboats, while the crew was trying desperately to assist their colleagues that were seriously wounded, was "a war crime."

    http://www.dissidentvoice.org/July2004/Hughes0712.htm

    .

    Posted by plunger at 10/23/2006 @ 06:52am

72. .

    IF A US AIRCRAFT CARRIER IS SUNK OFF THE COAST OF IRAN IN THE DAYS PRECEDING THE ELECTION, THIS ISRAELI DOLPHIN CLASS SUB WILL HAVE BEEN RESPONSIBLE:

    http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/naval/dolphin/Dolphin.html

    In May 2000 Israel is reported to have secretly carried out its first test launches from two German-built Dolphin-class submarines of cruise missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads. Israel is reported to possess a 200kg nuclear warhead, containing 6kg of plutonium, that could be mounted on cruise missiles.

    http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/air_missiles/pope ye_turbo/Popeye_Turbo.html

    CONSIDERING HOW HARD IT IS TO SINK A US AIRCRAFT CARRIER (IT TOOK 25 DAYS TO SINK THE USS AMERICA):

    http://www.cdnn.info/news/industry/i050522a.html

    Here is the DRESS REHEARSAL for the sinking of the USS Enterprise:

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-05-17-ship-reef_x.htm

    HERE IS THE FEARED FALSE FLAG ATTACK TO JUSTIFY ISRAEL'S NUKING OF IRAN AND MARTIAL LAW IN THE US:

    http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/104451

    IF ISRAEL HADN'T DONE THE EXACT SAME THING IN THE PAST, AND HAD MCCAIN NOT ACTIVELY COVERED IT UP, WE MIGHT ALL BE MORE CONFIDENT THAT THEY WOULDN'T DO IT AGAIN.

    ISRAEL'S ATTACK ON "LIBERTY"

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/margolis12.html

    MC CAIN'S ROLE IN THE COVERUP:

    http://www.dissidentvoice.org/July2004/Hughes0712.htm

    9/11 was a False Flag attack coordinated by the Bush Administration and Israel.

    The "NEXT 9/11" which Cheney has guaranteed us is coming is also guaranteed by him to result in a strike against Iran with nuclear weapons:

    Cheney's proposed "contingency plan" did not focus on preventing a Second 9/11. The Cheney plan is predicated on the presumption that Iran would be behind a Second 9/11 and that punitive bombings could immediately be activated.

    READ THIS!

    http://www.onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1096.shtml

    They've telegraphed the entire event.

    Demand that Israel keep its subs in port and away from US vessels.

    .

    Posted by plunger at 10/23/2006 @ 06:52am

73. RIO reads the words of an ex-Ranger, someone that has served under Chimpy, and comes away feeling that the1st Amendment helps terrorists. Just like the 4th. He feels that after having served his country, Kevin Tillman should keep his trap shut, ignore what is obvious to the one eyed King and stay the course. Rio does not support our troops.

    Hey, Rio, do you know who Pat was reading before he was gunned down by his own men? Before his name waas used by Chimpy to support an illegal war? Hint: it was not Coulter or Hannity. How could such a traitor make it into the Army Rangers?

    MAASCH and RIO, if the dems win congress, please feel free to move away. Again, I recommend Saudi Arabia, Khasikstan, Uzbekistan and Iran. You will love it there, no traitorous scum, no lib media. Obviously Europe is out of the question for you and S. America is leaning leftward as well. I here China has policies you like too. Have fun!

    Posted by crabwalk at 10/23/2006 @ 08:53am

74. yes, i speled hear rong. sory

    Posted by crabwalk at 10/23/2006 @ 08:54am

75. Posted by RIO BRAVO 10/23/2006 @ 12:37am

    Seeing "demons" again this morning Loco? Better up the thorazine!

    I'll bet you loons would have thought twice about Chimpy if you knew he what his agenda actually was too.

    As to the future, you only have a couple weeks to wait.

    Posted by leftofcenter at 10/23/2006 @ 09:37am

76. Could it be that NO ONE WOULD VOTE FOR THOSE CANDIDATES IF THEIR REAL AGENDA IS KNOWN BY THE MAJORITY OF VOTERS!

    Posted by RIO BRAVO 10/23/2006 @ 12:37am

    Hahahah-- RIOB--- do you have any idea what the US citizenry would have done with the repubs in 2000 if we had known the hsuB admin/GOP/MIC 'SECRET' AGENDA? Most probably arest them-- not elect them-- that's for sure. Does anyone have a list of all the secret shit the hsuB admin/repubs have done that are now known that would've sent them packing a long time ago. The repubs are scared as shit because when the dems win and really do their jobs like 'OVERSIGHT', the US citizenry are going to see the REAL REPUB AGENDA, ALL THEIR ILLEGAL, CORRUPT, INCOMPETENT SHIT THE REPUBS HAVE KEPT HIDDON FOR FEAR OF PRISON TIME. Yeah, lets talk hidden and secret and real AGENDAS especially those of the corrupt repub perv enablers.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 10/23/2006 @ 09:42am

77. What follows is straight from the Republicans' press release (well, then it must be 100% true) :

    Justice for the Unprotected against Sexually Transmitted Infections among the Confined and Exposed Act (JUSTICE) Act (Lee, D-CA)-H.R. 6083. Requires community organizations to be allowed to distribute sexual barrier protection devices (e.g. condoms) in federal prisons. Also prohibits a federal prison from taking adverse action against a prisoner who possesses or uses a sexual barrier protection device. (I suppose you would prefer that all the bad people in prison get AIDS and die - another slice of your hypocrisy ; reduction of civil liberties for those who scare you)

    Crack-Cocaine Equitable Sentencing Act (Rangel, D-NY)-H.R. 2456. Eliminates the mandatory minimum sentence for crack-cocaine convictions. (Punish 'em all! Build more prisons for people who need treatment, and slash funding for schools that just might reduce the number of criminals - BRILLIANT!)

    Tupac Shakur Records Release Act of 2006 (McKinney, D-GA)-H.R. 4968. Enshrines copies of government records concerning rapper Tupac Shakur in a specially created collection at the National Archives. (This one you get right - it's almost as ridiculous as legislation creating a bridge to nowhere!)

    Antibullying Campaign Act (Nadler, D-NY)-H.R. 3787. Creates a new federal grant program aimed at reducing bullying in public schools "based on any distinguishing characteristic of an individual." (Leave it to a reactionary bully to be agains legislation attempting to reduce bullying)

    To provide for coverage under the Medicare and Medicaid Programs of incontinence undergarments (Frank, D-MA)-H.R. 1052. Makes adult diapers a covered item under Medicare and Medicaid. And this is bad because...? Got compassion? Apparently not.

    Gas Stamp Act (McDermott, D-WA)-H.R. 3712. Creates billions of dollars in gas stamps each year for people to get free gas, to be distributed to those already eligible for food stamps. Goddamn, better not let all those welfare queens driving Escalades have free gas - except that stereotype is an extreme exaggeration of reality brought to you by your friendly neighborhood reactionary Republican

    States' Rights to Medical Marijuana Act (Frank, D-MA)-H.R. 2087. Allows physicians in states with medical marijuana laws to prescribe marijuana without violating federal law. Medical marijuana is proven to be a godsend for people with certain medical conditions. What's the matter, this take money out of big Pharmaceutical's pockets?

    Ex-Offenders Voting Rights Act (Rangel, D-NY)-H.R. 663. Allows those convicts who are just out of prison to vote. Just because someone has done their time, screw 'em! Last ime I checked, people released from prison who entered as US citizens are still US citizens.

    Department of Peace and Nonviolence Act (Kucinich, D-OH)-H.R. 3760. Establishes a U.S. Department of Peace and Nonviolence, as well as a Peace Day. The department would promote "human rights," international conflict prevention, nonviolent intervention, structured mediation, and peaceful conflict resolution. Yeah, why would anybody be dumb enough to want to promote peace, nonviolence and human rights?

    National Health Insurance Act (Dingell, D-MI)-H.R. 15. Institutes a new 5% value-added tax on property and services and creates a board to oversee payment to any individual for medical services not covered by Medicare. (I agree that this would create more bureaucracy, but if the reactionary Republicans would actually get off their asses and work at solutions for the medical care crisis, we wouldn't need this type of thing.)

    Freedom of Choice Act (Nadler, D-NY)-H.R. 5151. Creates a right to unrestricted pre-viability abortions, and late terms abortions for the life and health of the mother. No more offensive than the other side trying to eliminate constitutionally-protected right to privacy.

    End the War in Iraq Act (McGovern, D-MA)-H.R. 4232. Defunds the War in Iraq, forcing immediate troop withdrawal. Well, this one's just silly - don't they know we're going to stay the course even if every general, Laura and the family pooch say that the war is a failure!

    Public Interest Lawyer Assistance Relief Act (Andrews, D-NJ)-H.R. 1753. Forgives the law school debt for attorneys working for a tax-exempt organization or the government. Not sure why this bothers you - you don't seem smart enough to be a lawyer jealous that you missed out on this opportunity to work for a good cause at reduced compensation.

    A Living Wage, Jobs for All Act (Lee, D-CA)-H.R. 1050. Builds on and strengthens FDR's "Economic Bill of Rights," creating rights to "decent" jobs (shocking!), income for individuals unable to work (silly!), a "decent" living for farmers (how dare they!), freedom from monopolies (bring back the Gilded Age, with robber barons, horrendous working conditions - you know, the good old days the reactionary Republicans are working to bring back!) "decent" housing, (keep 'em in tenements!) "adequate" health care (only if you can afford it!), Social Security (who cares about retired people - they're old and will die soon anyway!), education (with monopolies, kids won't need school, as they'll be working in the mines and in the factories and not in classrooms), work training (factory workers don't need training, and besides, all the jobs will be in China soon, wo why worry about it?), collective bargaining (how dare people think they have a right to be treated fairly - they should be grateful to have a job at all!), a safe working environment (safe, schmafe - shut up and get back to work, Lefty!), information on trends in pollution sources and products and processes that affect the well-being of workers throughout the world (screw the rest of the world - unless they have oil, and then really screw them!), voting (yeah, there's no need to worry about accurate, fair and monitored elections!), and personal security (You want to be safe? Trust the Republicans - things are much safer under them! Just ask the thousands of dead US soldiers, the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi's, people in Darfur, the refugees from Hurricane Katrina, and so on, and so on...). The bill also requires the Attorney General to create a registry of all corporations convicted of violating state or federal law (Robber barrons do not get convicted of anything - they've paid for the government, and it should do as they say!).

    Social Security Forever Act (Wexler, D-FL)-H.R. 2472. Imposes a new income tax on workers, employers, and self-employed businessmen to fund Social Security (I thought this was the Republican's big thing - saving Social Security? What's the matter with this plan - it actually helps Social Security instead of destroying it?).

    Health Security for All Americans Act (Baldwin, D-WI)-H.R. 2133. Requires states to create programs to ensure universal health coverage, and allows states to force employers to pay for health insurance for their employees (Boy, those Democrats are just fussy about the little things - like healthcare.).

    Universal National Service Act (Rangel, D-NY)-H.R. 4752. Makes it an obligation of every U.S. citizen, and every other person residing in the U.S., between the ages of 18 and 42, to perform a two-year period of national service, either as a member of an active or reserve component of the armed forces or in a civilian capacity that promotes national defense. (I have always been a proponent of this - let's spread service to our country across socioeconomic/cultural/racial groups - and no deferments!)

    Living American Wage Act (Green, D-TX)-H.R. 5731. Mandates that the federal minimum wage be equal to or greater than 112% of the federal poverty threshold beginning in 2007, and states that the minimum wage should be revised every four years. (Poor people get too much now, so why should they get more?)

    Media Ownership Reform Act (Hinchey, D-NY)-H.R. 3302. Restricts ownership of radio and television stations, forcing some owners to divest their holdings, and regulates broadcast content. (Monopolies are a good thing - bring back overpriced, low quality products and services; oh wait, we're already there!)

    Universal Education Act (Kind, D-WI)-H.R. 3930. Creates a Universal Education Corporation that provides taxpayer dollars to foreign countries that enter into education reform agreements with the U.S. (Preposterous - why educate the foreigners - then we couldn't subjugate them!)

    Medicare for All Act (Dingell, D-MI)-H.R. 4683. Increases taxes on workers and employers to offer to all citizens, and other individuals legally present in the U.S., Medicare benefits equivalent to the health care plans federal employees receive. (How stupid! It's not like heatlhier citizens would mean savings for all!)

    Menu Education and Labeling Act (DeLauro, D-CT)-H.R. 5563. Regulates what certain restaurants must print on their menus. (Why the hell should people know what they're ingesting - shut up and eat, and eat, and eat!)

    And then there are the proposed amendments to the U.S. Constitution:

    -- regarding the right of all citizens of the United States to a public education of equal high quality (Jackson, D-IL)-H.J.Res. 29. Creates a constitutional right to equal public education. (Rio, did you have a rough time of it as a lad? How in the world could equal public education be a bad thing? Unless you're one of those who wants a certain segment of the population ignorant - oh wait, you do!)

    -- regarding the right of citizens of the United States to health care of equal high quality (Jackson, D-IL)-H.J.Res. 30. Creates a constitutional right to equal health care. (What do you have against health care?)

    -- respecting the right to decent, safe, sanitary, and affordable housing (Jackson, D-IL)-H.J.Res. 32 and Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States respecting the right to a home (Rangel, D-NY)-H.J.Res 40. Creates a constitutional right to housing. (Again, seems superfluous, but for the millions of people living in third world conditions in America.)

    -- respecting the right to full employment and balanced growth (Jackson, D-IL)-H.J.Res. 35. Creates a constitutional right to full employment. (But this would stop the exporting of American jobs overseas!)

    By Susan Jones CNSNews.com Senior Editor October 20, 2006

    Posted by RIO BRAVO 10/22/2006 @ 12:48am

    Rio, do we really want to get into the waste of time perpetrated by the reactionary Republicans? Recall the reactionary Republican-controlled congress spending any time on homophobic legislation, anti-American restriction of free speech (flag burning) legislation, anti-scientific, legislation concerning an individual (Terry Schiavo), and on and on? And what has the reactionary Republican-controlled Congress actually accomplished the last 5 plus years (besides being complicit with the commando in chief's anti-American assault on civil liberties and his illegal war?

    Posted by Turk33 at 10/23/2006 @ 10:07am

78. Posted by RIO BRAVO 10/22/2006 @ 12:48am

    RIO....look at the sponsers of those bills. Rangel, Dingell, Kucinich, Jesse Jackson Jr.

    A Democratically controlled Congress in 1994 could pass "Hillary-care"...you think they're going to pass bills from the Left of the Left?

    They'll pass POPULAR legislation, like a $7.25 minimum wage hike (not "living wage" hikes of $16-20 an hour)...or health care for poor kids....or school funding. Not the socialist agenda of their base. They need to prove that THEY are the "moderates" and not radical like the Republicans were.

    THE most disappointed group with a Democratic Congress....is NOT going to be you or anyone on the Right...but those on the Left!

    Posted by Mask at 10/23/2006 @ 10:16am

79. the latest from the righty blogs (and friends) is that this is all hogwash. That Tillman did not write this, that there are 3-6 versions floating around the net and that he is being used by the Left for electioneering porpoises (move through the water like a porpoise, alternately rising above it and submerging).

    any thoughts or revelations?

    Posted by crabwalk at 10/23/2006 @ 11:56am

80. Posted by FRANKGRITS 10/23/2006 @ 11:37am

    Frank, I agree that the thread was stolen, and apparently I can't help myself when given the chance to expose Rio's hypcrisy and ignorance. I think the Tillman story is a microcosm of the whole Iraq debacle - patriotism and love of country soured with fear-mongering, lies and half truths, and the smearing of those who have the temerity to call a spade a spade and shout that the emperor has no clothes (sorry for the mixed metaphor) is just the method the reactionary Republicans have for limiting the damage that statements such as Tillman's. That and changing the subject - mea culpa for taking the bait.

    any thoughts or revelations?

    Posted by CRABWALK 10/23/2006 @ 11:56am

    I think there is enough evidence about the Tillman's beliefs from several reliable outlets that this rumor should die a quiet death - but I bet the reactionary Republicans will jump on that with both feet in order to spin the sad state of affairs they have foisted upon the American people.

    Posted by Turk33 at 10/23/2006 @ 12:20pm

81. Sorry; that should have been - I think there is enough evidence about the Tillmans' beliefs - since both brothers have made statements regarding their opinions.

    Posted by Turk33 at 10/23/2006 @ 12:22pm

82. "any thoughts or revelations?"

    Posted by CRABWALK 10/23/2006 @ 11:56am

    Yes.

    Desperate horseshit.

    Posted by drhammer at 10/23/2006 @ 12:24pm

83. Posted by RIO BRAVO 10/23/2006 @ 2:27pm | ignore this person

    #1 - Any statistics to back this statement up?

    #2 - Any notion how this is relevant to the discussion of Pat and Kevin Tillman?

    #3 - Any chance that the statistics you manage to dredge up come from something other than Fox News, Republican's Quarterly, Reactionaries 'r' Us, of some other pseudo-intellectual, biased organization?

    #4 - Any comment on Pat and Kevin Tillman's comments regarding the incredible mess the commando in chief and his merry band of reactionaries have made of the world situation, specifically in Iraq and Afghanistan? Or do you only support the troops who still believe that Saddam was involved in 9/11?

    Posted by Turk33 at 10/23/2006 @ 2:48pm

84. Posted by RIO BRAVO 10/23/2006 @ 4:08pm

    Funny...cause I responded already.....

    Posted by leftofcenter at 10/23/2006 @ 4:57pm

85. Monday, October 23, 2006

    Active troops ask congress to end Iraqi occupation

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Sixty five active duty service members are officially asking Congress to end the war in Iraq -- the first time active troops have done so since U.S. invasion began in 2003.

    Three of the service members will hold a press conference Wednesday explaining their decision to send "Appeals for Redress" under the Military Whistleblower Protection Act to their members of Congress. Under the act, National Guard and Reservists can send communications about any subject to their member of Congress without punishment.

    -CNN Ticker Producer Alexander Mooney

    Posted 10/23/2006 11:32:00 AM

    Posted by hsuBfools at 10/23/2006 @ 5:20pm

86. hsuB has so much blood on his hands he's going to have run a lot faster to arbitrarily within a few days of an election distance himself from his own 3 years of BS about 'stay the course' non-strategy just because Rove calculates it doesn't sell well right now.

    U.S. Deaths Confirmed By The DoD:_________________2786

    Reported U.S. Deaths Pending DoD Confirmation:________14

    Total:_____________________________________2800

    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

    1. U.S. 'Will Stay the Course' in Iraq, Bush Says-- By Casie Vinall, Special to American Forces Press Service

    WASHINGTON, July 10, 2003 – The United States "will stay the course" in Iraq, President Bush said today in Gaberone, Botswana, following a meeting with President Festus Gontebanye Mogae.

    2. April 13, 2004-- President Addresses the Nation in Prime Time Press Conference Press Conference of the President, The East Room

    Now, I'll be glad to take your questions. I will start with you.

    Q Thank you, Mr. President. Mr. President, April is turning into the deadliest month in Iraq since the fall of Baghdad, and some people are comparing Iraq to Vietnam and talking about a quagmire. Polls show that support for your policy is declining and that fewer than half Americans now support it. What does that say to you and how do you answer the Vietnam comparison?

    THE PRESIDENT: I think the analogy is false. I also happen to think that analogy sends the wrong message to our troops, and sends the wrong message to the enemy. Look, this is hard work. It's hard to advance freedom in a country that has been strangled by tyranny. And, yet, we must stay the course, because the end result is in our nation's interest.

    3. November 30, 2005-- President Outlines Strategy for Victory in Iraq United States Naval Academy-- Annapolis, Maryland

    hsuB: Some critics continue to assert that we have no plan in Iraq except to, "stay the course." If by "stay the course," they mean we will not allow the terrorists to break our will, they are right.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/11/20051130-2.html

    4. Tony Snow on 'Stay the Course' Correction

    By E&P Staff, Published: October 23, 2006 5:55 PM ET

    Q: Tony, it seems what you have is not "stay the course." Has anybody told the President he should stop calling it "stay the course" then?

    MR. SNOW: I don't think he's used that term in a while.

    Q Oh, yes, he has, repeatedly.

    MR. SNOW: When?

    Q Well, in August, because I wrote a story saying he didn't use it -- and I was quite sternly corrected.

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    Bush: ‘We've Never Been Stay The Course'

    http://thinkprogress.org/2006/10/22/bush-stay-the-course/

    Posted by hsuBfools at 10/23/2006 @ 7:43pm

87. Trust me when I tell you, that majority is already there. And then some.

    Posted by FRANKGRITS 10/23/2006 @ 6:30pm

    No joke. I'd say closer to 65-70% and growing every day. And if the congress stays repub, this nation will be stearing headlong into a black hole, one so empty and with so much pull, I see an ugly chaotic end. I see 'everyone' turning on hsuB. The repubs need to lose for the sake of our nation and I do believe some repubs already know this and are ok with it.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 10/23/2006 @ 8:01pm

88. Last Friday, Eric Alterman wrote a very compelling piece on the Lancet study that estimated 655,000 Iraqi dead since the US invasion in 2003. http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/43224/

    'Somehow' the number of Iraqi deaths sounds entirely plausable to those who are actually living the war...

    http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

    ...yet 'somehow' the right-wingnut-apologists have dismissed it, with a yawn and a wimper but damned little logic or examination, as being an inaccurate estimate.

    And as Mr. Tillman states, 'somehow' all those deaths are tolerated.

    Posted by Lillian at 10/23/2006 @ 8:57pm

89. KO-- per hsuB's "stay the course" -- "never been stay the course" -- he's a 'flip-flopper'!

    Posted by hsuBfools at 10/24/2006 @ 12:20am

90. Drudge just took off a link to Tillman's letter. He only had it up for a few hours after I shot him an message stating that he was a coward for not siting it as significant. Even then he didn't link it directly but to a story about the letter leading to another link to read it. Now poof.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 10/24/2006 @ 12:49am

91. Actually, I think "The Most Vital Political Statement of 2006" may have been made two days ago by Nancy Pelosi....

    when she said on "60 Minutes" there would be "no impeachment of Bush if I am Speaker".

    Posted by Mask at 10/24/2006 @ 09:20am

92. ever since the Nuremberg tribunals, the excuse "I was only following orders" is not valid. TJ understands this, do you Frankgrits?

    Posted by johannesrolf at 10/24/2006 @ 10:39am

93. Posted by FRANKGRITS 10/24/2006 @ 11:47am

    You might have just made an enemy or two on the Left, FRANK.

    The drooling over "getting Bush" by the Obsessed is near fever-pitch. And anybody (like you, me, or "Speaker Nancy") who says that it's a waste of time and energy is likely to get snapped at!

    Posted by Mask at 10/24/2006 @ 12:17pm

94. "I certaintly wouldn't critisize anyone who gave their life while serving their country."

    no one gives their life, unless you want to count suicide bombers, it is taken.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 10/24/2006 @ 12:48pm

95. The drooling over "getting Bush" by the Obsessed is near fever-pitch.

    "Drooling" is particularly apt, especially when one sees endless headlines alluding to premature celebration by the Dems. The question is whether the takeover will be enough to make impeachment stick.

    Can you imagine how crazy 2008 will be? I mean, if both sides are so hot and bothered now...

    Posted by Beausoleil at 10/24/2006 @ 12:49pm

96. "Drooling" is particularly apt, especially when one sees endless headlines alluding to premature celebration by the Dems.

    Posted by BEAUSOLEIL 10/24/2006 @ 12:49am

    could you link some of those headlines for us?

    Posted by Will C. at 10/24/2006 @ 12:52pm

97. Sure.

    Here's one: http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2006/102006/10152006/228508. It came up on Google immediately.

    That one actually mentions Dems "drooling with anticipation" in the body of the article.

    The NY Times is full of them too. I don't have time today to link them all, but I see many of them every week.

    Posted by Beausoleil at 10/24/2006 @ 1:10pm

98. I'm really disappointed.... This post has been up for four days, and LVLIBERTY1 still has not called Kevin Tillman a traitorous John Kerry-type.

    Posted by nathanhale at 10/24/2006 @ 1:26pm

99. Frank you, unlike I, have difficulty in making the most basic distinctions. a suicide bomber facing certain death, gives his life. a soldier, or cop or fireman for that matter does not, though he may go on a "suicide mission".

    Posted by johannesrolf at 10/24/2006 @ 1:54pm

100. Posted by BEAUSOLEIL 10/24/2006 @ 1:10pm

     BEAU...by providing proof to WILL...

     he's going to go into "silent running" mode, now...LOL!

     Posted by Mask at 10/24/2006 @ 1:54pm

101. Mask,

     Yeah-you-right.

     Or maybe he's preparing a shock `n awe response.

     Posted by Beausoleil at 10/24/2006 @ 2:00pm

102. Frankgrits, how comforting it must be to live in a world of absolutes. no wonder you strain for absolutist solutions to our problem.

     Posted by johannesrolf at 10/24/2006 @ 2:02pm

103. Until we take the country back, there is no playing nice.Lenin

     Posted by johannesrolf at 10/24/2006 @ 2:10pm

104. oh sorry for my mistake, I thought it was a quote from Lenin, but it was from Beria.

     Posted by johannesrolf at 10/24/2006 @ 2:11pm

105. Frank, by calling for preventing people from voting, and for abrogating their right to free speech, you have become the enemy, which you would smite.

     Posted by johannesrolf at 10/24/2006 @ 2:17pm

106. Posted by FRANKGRITS 10/24/2006 @ 2:21pm

     FRANK...two points.

     1. What if they "educate themselves" and still don't believe as you do on issues?

     2. What if they refuse to honor your "request" to not vote until they do?

     Or is this just some fantasy of yours?

     Posted by Mask at 10/24/2006 @ 3:38pm

107. Frankgrits, are you done now, puffing yourself up with tough talk?

     Posted by johannesrolf at 10/24/2006 @ 4:10pm

108. But it is not the America I grew up in.

     back in my day we didn't let....(fill in the blank), vote. and we didn't bother with free speech. you either spoke the way we wanted you to or we shut you up.

     I remember that country too.it was the US.

     Posted by johannesrolf at 10/24/2006 @ 4:47pm

109. If the educate themselves, they will agree with me and 2, I don't harbor any pretenses that anyone will listen to my request but we'd all be better off if they did.

     I think you should let the air out of your over inflated head.

     Posted by johannesrolf at 10/24/2006 @ 6:25pm

110. Geez, guys. Chill. While Frank was being very hyperbolic, and technically, JR makes valid points, I think he was blowing off some steam. Have any of us not looked back at bushco supporters and thought, "WTF is wrong with those guys. Who let them vote?".

     Of course, this America and (allegedly) we all get a vote. But, I think you are getting as excitable about reality as Frank was about his emotions.

     FWIW, I am not, at all the "military type" and I have always wondered what motivates those who do join up. I have never had a conversation with an active military member, which I didn't walk away afterwards, wondering what they were thinking. (My brother apperared, to me, positively brain damaged, until yrs. after he got out.) But I have always stayed mute. Grateful that they were there to defend my country.

     Just my opinion. I agree with you JR. But I think a stern lecture, in the face of over emotional hyperbole, has started an pointless argument between otherwise reasonable people.

     Eric

     Posted by Malcontent at 10/24/2006 @ 6:56pm

111. thanks Eric, I will take your comments to heart.

     Posted by johannesrolf at 10/24/2006 @ 7:12pm

112. Posted by RIO BRAVO 10/22/2006 @ 12:48am

     Huh...read your list and I agree with at least the spirit of most of that (although the amendments are a bit much) yet you make them sound like "bad things." How strange, how pitiful, how "unChristian" you must be to think the ideals presented in most of these proposals are "bad."

     Instead you cheerlead the fight against freedom. Let's legalize and codify torture, let's allow the goverment to invade our personal privacy, let's allow corporations to write the laws that regulate their industries, let's start wars for no real reason, let's allow schools to teach religion instead of science in science class, let's ignore the other nations of the world because "we know best."

     Dude, you really should crawl back under the rock from whence you sprang...

     Posted by leftofcenter at 10/25/2006 @ 11:18am

113. Posted by RIO BRAVO 10/22/2006 @ 12:48am

     Huh...read your list and I agree with at least the spirit of most of that (although the amendments are a bit much) yet you make them sound like "bad things." How strange, how pitiful, how "unChristian" you must be to think the ideals presented in most of these proposals are "bad."

     Instead you cheerlead the fight against freedom. Let's legalize and codify torture, let's allow the goverment to invade our personal privacy, let's allow corporations to write the laws that regulate their industries, let's start wars for no real reason, let's allow schools to teach religion instead of science in science class, let's ignore the other nations of the world because "we know best."

     Dude, you really should crawl back under the rock from whence you sprang...

     Posted by leftofcenter at 10/25/2006 @ 11:20am

114. oops...sorry about the dbl-post. Dunno what happened

     Posted by leftofcenter at 10/25/2006 @ 11:20am

115. Lefty, it bears repeating.

     Posted by johannesrolf at 10/25/2006 @ 11:22am