House of Labor Wrangling: UNITE-HERE v SEIU, AFL v CtW

At precisely the point when the labor movement should be consolidating gains made in the 2006 and 2008 elections -- an advancing policy initiatives such as the Employee Free Choice Act -- a series of nasty internal fights are absorbing key unions and the country's two major labor federations: the AFL-CIO and the Change to Win coalition.

UNITE-HERE, the amalgamated union of clothing workers and hotel and restautant employees that has one of the richest and most honorable histories in the U.S. labor movement, appears to be breaking apart and key leaders are now angling to exit the Change to Win federation to rejoin the American Federation of Labor-Congress of Industrial Organizations..

The UNITE-HERE move is a blow to the key player in Change to Win, Service Employees International Union president Andy Stern.

Stern is being accused by his critics of encouraging the break up of UNITE-HERE in order to bolster the position of an ally, veteran UNITE leader Bruce Raynor.

A statement released Friday afternoon by the UNITE-HERE board announcing the decision to leave Change to Win and rejoin the AFL-CIO, actually took a swing at Stern's union. The board said it had "authorized President Wilhelm to negotiate with the AFL-CIO for the re-affiliation of UNITE HERE, and further that UNITE HERE will disaffiliate from Change to Win given SEIU's brazen interference in UNITE HERE's affairs and its intrusion on UNITE HERE's industry jurisdiction."

Raynor, whose roots are in the clothing workers union that evolved from the merger of the old Amalgamated Clothing and Textile Workers Union (ACTWU) and the International Ladies Garment Workers Union (ILGWU), has been working closely with Stern since UNITE-HERE's factional dispute broke out. The other faction, led by John Wilhelm, has its roots in the old Hotel Employees and Restaurant Employees union. (The clothing workers have been hard hit by plant closures that have decimated their membership, but have significant resources in the form of the Amalgamated Bank; the hotel workers have had more organizing success in recent years, especially in the Las Vegas area, but are financially weaker.)

Here's the statement from the UNITE HERE General Executive Board:

Today, UNITE HERE's General Executive Board met to address the attempt by a splinter group to secede from the union. The Board followed the democratic processes contained in its Union Constitution and made lawful decisions.

By substantial margins, the Board voted to:

· Declare invalid and to revoke the charters of Joint Boards that took illegal secession votes.

· Recover all property, including funds, real estate, books and records of all Joint Boards that voted to secede.

· Take immediate legal action, with personal liability at stake, against Joint Board Managers who expended union funds to pursue secession from the International Union.

· Authorized President Wilhelm to negotiate with the AFL-CIO for the re-affiliation of UNITE HERE, and further that UNITE HERE will disaffiliate from Change to Win given SEIU's brazen interference in UNITE HERE's affairs and its intrusion on UNITE HERE's industry jurisdiction.

The Board has authorized the Union to enforce its decisions as appropriate in the courts and elsewhere.

An overwhelming majority of our Union continues to believe that maintaining our unity as one Union continues to be in the best interests of our members.

Here's the statement from Raynor:

Earlier today, a General Executive Board meeting was held at which John Wilhelm and his followers continued their effort to silence the voice of those 1,500 rank-and-file members - representing 150,000 workers - who voted to disaffiliate their joint boards from UNITE HERE and the more than 75,000 members from those joint boards who have signed petitions to form a new union. Thousands more members are signing petitions every day.

At this point it is clear that there is a total breakdown of the union and the merger has reached its official end. Not surprisingly the General Executive Board meeting has become dominated by the Wilhelm faction's delusion that the former UNITE side Joint Board's and a number of HERE locals can still be governed by this kangaroo court. Today, we saw the board as a shell of its former self, with nearly half of its membership comprised of union professional staff who represent no workers.

Rather than hearing the wake-up call of 75,000 members and listening to the expression of their democratic will, Wilhelm wants to punish those members and their leaders who disagree with his wishes by passing resolutions trying to seize resources, revoke charters, and trustee locals. That is Wilhelm Soviet-style democracy in action. These actions are unconstitutional and will not stand.

Wilhelm now plans to unilaterally negotiate a return to the AFL-CIO – abandoning the Change to Win movement led by several unions, UNITE HERE among them, to take organizing in a new, more effective direction. This is further evidence that the merger has failed in its fundamental purpose; sadly Wilhelm seems to be the last person who will recognize this, despite the wishes of 150,000 members.

There is no way to read these two statements without coming to the conclusion that this nasty dispute within the house of labor -- which extends far beyond UNITE-HERE, because of the engagement of other unions and dualing federations with the fight -- is far from over.

Two things are certain:

If UNITE-HERE returns to the AFL-CIO, that would be a significant development. Rich in history and potentially in resources, and still strong in many regions, this is an important union and its affiliation matters.

A UNITE-HERE exit would reduce Change to Win, which formed in 2005 in a split from the AFL-CIO, to six member unions: SEIU, the Teamsters, Laborers, Carpenters, Food and Commercial Workers, and United Farmworkers.

But what if UNITE and HERE split? Does UNITE stay with Change to Win, while HERE goes to the AFL-CIO?

It starts to sound a little like a labor soap opera.

But there is a very serious side to all this wrangling.

If the UNITE-HERE affiliation struggle evolves into a legal and jurisdictional fight, which could well happen, it will stir things up in both federations.

The problem, and its a big one, is that Change to Win and the AFL-CIO are both struggling to win passage of the Employee Free Choice Act, health care reform and other labor agenda items.

Internal battles aren't going to improve the union movement's prospects at a time when -- with allies in control of the White House and Congress -- it should be flexing its muscles.

Comments (106)

1. Why highlight dissension within the Labor rank?

   did Axlerod, Gegala, or Carville put you up to this, John? Is there some secret angle/directive from the WH that an insider like you can share w/us?

   Inquiring minds want to know!

   HOPE AND CHANGE

   Posted by Happy at 03/13/2009 @ 4:19pm

2. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

   Posted by YourJomamma at 03/13/2009 @ 4:49pm

3. Yawn...the real battle is who will get all those health care workers in their union...and the rest of us(not me and mine) get stuck with the over priced, over regulated, restricted, rationed "care" as you wait in lines measured in miles as 3 of the 7 windows are open...and the 4th window is processing for 1/2 hour to check the worker out, the next 2 are closed cause the "care provider engineer" are both on break..and the 7th is closed for a work slow down.

   I can see the signs on the road now from the strikeing health care workers that reads...HONK IF YOU ARE WILLING BLEED IN THE STREET FOR FAIR WAGES.....as the patient(victim) dies.....in the waiting lobby of the Post Office Health Care Center.

   Posted by YourJomamma at 03/13/2009 @ 5:11pm

4. I read this article with the same level of interest as the brochure for sludge dewatering that arrived in the mail. Actually, the sludge brochure was more relevant.

   Posted by sntauri at 03/13/2009 @ 8:04pm

5. This may be more appropiate here than the other thread...

   I've had plenty of occasions when I could have gotten govt help and made life easier for myself and my family. But I've never resorted to that. It meant going without meals, it meant no normal activities and life at times, but that is part of life. I tried through my example and teaching to bring that same philosophy to my children.

   Posted by antisocialist at 03/13/2009 @ 5:17pm

   This, to me, is the "content of character" that Dr King mentioned...on every level.

   This separates those who view the negatives of America and DEMAND the rest of us, who somehow cheated, give them a piece of our work....and those who come here and sees a "no way can I lose!" opportunity.

   THAT is the difference between those who claim they victims of 200 years of history, the conquistedores, the English, the Germans, the Jews, the Irish, the whites, the last name they were cursed with, the neighborhood, the fact they never knew the right people, ....and the those who come here from another country, of the same ethnic origin of those who have been here for generations,and with in 1/2 of a generation...own not only the business that they used to work for, but they own the entire block.

   The ability to recognize an opportunity and not is teh biggest difference between success and ...a union job.

   Posted by YourJomamma at 03/13/2009 @ 9:35pm

6. The ability to recognize an opportunity and not is teh biggest difference between success and ...a union job.

   Posted by YourJomamma at 03/13/2009 @ 9:35pm

   Once again a load of sentimental BS, not in keeping with reality. It's sweet to hear and all but when faced with reality that is not statistically supported and is becoming less and less the case as time passes. The reason you could do this stuff in America more than anywhere was because we were a brand no country with no previous system. Which meant the class system was not filled out. As the classes become more filled out there is less room at the top. Which means slowly but surely sentimental stuff like this becomes more and more of a fantasy and reality dawns that not everyone gets to move up. You may work just as hard and produce just as much as your neighbor but for some reason your neighbor will have success and you won't. You make work harder than some kid who has slacked off and was handed everything in life yet that person will be rich and famous and you will middle class.

   You want proof that riches are not given out based on achievement? Paris Hilton.

   Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/13/2009 @ 11:25pm

7. Posted by YourJomamma at 03/13/2009 @ 9:35pm

   John, if you are so bored with this article...

   why do YOU have the most posts on it (as of 9:35pm 10/13/09)??!?!??

   Posted by Mask at 03/14/2009 @ 07:36am

8. Posted by YourJomamma at 03/13/2009 @ 5:11pm

   You are never wrong about your fears, so I am sure the labor camps and long lines at the emergency room are just around the corner. Oh, wait, the lines are already there. Never mind. You may leave the country now, I hear sleeping is great in communist countries.

   Posted by crabwalk at 03/14/2009 @ 09:32am

9. Posted by YourJomamma at 03/13/2009 @ 9:35pm

   John, if you are so bored with this article...

   why do YOU have the most posts on it (as of 9:35pm 10/13/09)??!?!??

   Posted by Mask at 03/14/2009 @ 07:36am

   thought of something while it about to put me to sleep...and as you can see...it was important...:)

   Posted by YourJomamma at 03/14/2009 @ 09:39am

10. Posted by Mask at 03/14/2009 @ 07:36am

    Because he wants to make sure that those of us that have positive experience with unions know that his experience has caused PTSD, and that our experience cannot possibly be real. I cannot imagine what is like to live in fear as he does.

    I want to hear about how he is being denied his religion by the 1.6% of Atheists in America, again. Or how scientists are like Nazis and want to see capitalism fail.

    My wifes Jewish Grandfather came here, and joined a union. That gave him a stable income so that he could raise up a gaggle of grandkids to be doctors and such. Evil unions!

    Posted by crabwalk at 03/14/2009 @ 09:44am

11. "You may work just as hard and produce just as much as your neighbor but for some reason your neighbor will have success and you won't. You make work harder than some kid who has slacked off and was handed everything in life yet that person will be rich and famous and you will middle class.

    You want proof that riches are not given out based on achievement? Paris Hilton.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/13/2009 @ 11:25pm

    Depends on what you are working on...if your neighbor has prepared himself for a career that is in demand he will do well, where as the other guy who has prepared himself for English, Art History, or Polictical Science, no matter how hard they work, will find little demand except at the place where they learned what they were doing is indispensible...the universitys...away from the real world.

    Now, as to the brand new country...the largest group of people coming here at any one time, in any era of the US were the worlds...poor....

    and why did they succeed to build the greatest country on earth?

    They worked, fought, invented, struggled,planted,developed, built, created everything they needed with their own hands , they wanted to become ANERICAN, not hyphenated Americans, nor Americans who demanded their neighbors money..they had a goal of becoming an American, spoke English and learned, blended into the culture...

    Now one expects or demands the govt do it for them..in their native language...with a check.

    Paris Hilton? Clown for sure...if she is the fool she appears, she will be broke or less wealthy...but it appears someone is buying her schtick...with their own cash...I have no problem with inherited wealth..it doesn't represent that much of the total wealth...most billionares have been created in the last 20-30 years from nothing.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 03/14/2009 @ 09:50am

12. most billionares have been created in the last 20-30 years from nothing.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 03/14/

    And not many union members among them...but all labored...most with their own hands and sept out the place at closing.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 03/14/2009 @ 09:51am

13. Posted by YourJomamma at 03/14/2009 @ 09:39am

    Maybe in your spare time you should research:

    Mother Jones

    Terence Vincent Powderly

    The Pinkerton Agency

    The Johnstown Flood

    Child labor in the 19th and early 20th century.

    How unions keep out illegal aliens

    mine safety prior to and after unions.

    Read this, it will take one minute: http://tinyurl.com/aredrf

    Posted by crabwalk at 03/14/2009 @ 09:54am

14. Why highlight dissension within the Labor rank? Posted by Happy at 03/13/2009 @ 4:19pm

    Hey HAPP! The reason for dissension within various Unions who realize that soon the ranks of American Workers represented by a Union will swell to twice the size or more than they are now should be obvious. But then if obvious was a snake your body would be chock full of venom and bite marks.

    The swelling must be terrible by now and I suggest you seek immediate medical attention.

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 10:02am

15. You want proof that riches are not given out based on achievement? Paris Hilton.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/13/2009 @ 11:25pm

    Ccc, a piece of advice for you. You'll be a lot happier as you go through life if you would quit worrying and complaining over how someone else got rich and start concerning yourself about your own future prospects. Obviously you are very envious and extremely jealous over the fact that the Hilton's et. al. are wealthy and are able to pass down the fruits of their success from generation to generation. May I suggest that you would not begrudge the poor folk who have become wealthy overnight for doing nothing more than buying a lottry ticket. You wouldn't say that was based on any special achievement, would you?

    Here's a news flash for you. LIFE IS UNFAIR and nothing you can do or any system you can dream up can ever make it fair. The sooner you accept this fact, the better off you'll be. Be thankful that you live in a country that allows each individual to pursue their own dreams according to each one's ambitions, talents, and motivations. Even then, outcomes will be different because each one of us is different. Some will achieve success while others won't. Some people are leaders and some are followers. However, this doesn't mean it's wrong or evil.

    My grandfather was a farmer and helped feed his family (Grandma and 4 kids) by hunting squirrels and rabbits during the Great Depression just so his children wouldn't go hungry. No food stamps then, either. Both my parents worked so I could get an education so I wouldn't have it so tough. Now, I make more than my mom and dad combined and my kids will have it even easier. The one thing my kids don't do is worry about how much the next person has.

    Understand?

    Posted by fram at 03/14/2009 @ 10:08am

16. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

    Posted by YourJomamma at 03/13/2009 @ 4:49pm

    Whenever Jomamma yawns, it means he is gearing up for something that really rattles his cage. He yawns and feigns disinterest to disguise abject fear and horror. Then he will launch a plethora of inane posts to soothe his shattered reality.

    It's always great entertainment.

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 10:14am

17. http://www.clb.org.hk/en/files/share/File/general

    /Child_labour_report_1.pdf

    Read it if you dare. Hippy lies, all.

    It's funny, JOM says that union members are lazy and don't want to exhibit entrepreneurial tendencies. But, the reality is that many, many thousands of businesses are started by and for union members.

    The self employed plumber I use...union.

    the self employed HVAC tech I use...union. All his employees...union. They work for huge companies as well, those poor companies must be getting ripped off! I better call them ASAP.

    The pipe fitter that taught me to weld, he helped build nuclear plants and bio tech facilities... retired at 52 with a couple of million in the bank...union. Now he runs his own blacksmithing company, he has work across the nation.

    nah, that cannot be. JOM said they are lazy do nothings that expect hand outs.

    Posted by crabwalk at 03/14/2009 @ 10:15am

18. The reason for dissension within various Unions who realize that soon the ranks of American Workers represented by a Union will swell to twice the size or more than they are now should be obvious. But then if obvious was a snake your body would be chock full of venom and bite marks.

    The swelling must be terrible by now and I suggest you seek immediate medical attention.

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 10:02am

    Of course the union ranks will swell...

    ..government is taking over more of the economy...

    where else can unions survive?.. no competition..

    the better jobs will flee off shore faster than before. You guys just don't get it...you can't legislate good jobs...they must be created from demand.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 03/14/2009 @ 10:16am

19. "It's funny, JOM says that union members are lazy.."

    I was in a union for 2 years.

    Never said lazy..just may not be driven and want a place where they can't be fired or they get paid for showing up...that ain't lazy...just not driven....

    UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 03/14/2009 @ 10:19am

20. Understand?

    Posted by fram at 03/14/2009 @ 10:08am

    Yes, I do, but no one here will.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 03/14/2009 @ 10:19am

21. "Utah's coal mine tragedy killed six miners and three rescuers. West Virginia's 2006 Sago tragedy killed 12. America was shaken, and vowed still more mine safety rigors.

    Yet during the same period, thousands upon thousands of coal diggers perished inside China's treacherous underground mines. Their deaths cause only a tiny fraction of the public notice triggered by U.S. disasters. "Mine safety in China is about where we were in the United States in the 1800s," Phil Smith, a United Mine Workers spokesman, said after the Sago tragedy. "There is little or no regard by the companies for their workers. Their only goal is for production."

    The latest underground tragedy in China came when a rain-swollen river flooded two coal mines Aug. 23, trapping 181 miners. Chinese officials accepted no responsibility, calling it a "natural disaster." In 2005, the Beijing government reported that 5,986 Chinese coal miners died in accidents -- a death rate more than 100 times higher than America's

    Cheap but unsafe Chinese imports attract wide attention in U.S. news these days. Yet few Americans think about repressive working conditions that let Chinese companies produce such cheap products by paying their workers pennies an hour to work in unsafe conditions. The exploding Chinese economy depends on coal-fueled power plants for the vast majority of its electricity. Since 2000, coal production has more than doubled. More miners probably died in China in the past five years than died in the United States since 1900." http://minedisasters.blogspot.com/2007/09/mine-deaths.html

    What happened in America circa 1900 that has saved thousands of lives?

    Could it be the advent of ...unions? Evil unions save lives. Remember how precious life is? Or is that only WHILE in the womb?

    Posted by crabwalk at 03/14/2009 @ 10:20am

22. nah, that cannot be. JOM said they are lazy do nothings that expect hand outs.

    Posted by crabwalk at 03/14/2009 @ 10:15am

    I celebrate his wealth and success, he is exceptional..did he make his wealth in the union working by the hour, or did he start something extra OUTSIDE of his regular union job?

    ...THATS THE DIFFERENCE, the drive..for if he stayed in the union working for the company..he would not have stsrted his own and become wealthy..thats the connection I am making.

    ...is he the norm? or the exception....?

    I celebrate the exception everywhere, since I hope to be exceptional....they are rare..

    Posted by YourJomamma at 03/14/2009 @ 10:24am

23. UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 03/14/2009 @ 10:19am

    Oh, I see. If someone wants to go "to work", sleep, not produce, get paid for not showing up...and not get fired....that really isn't laziness.

    Sure. I understand that you want to back up from your positions.

    Tell me again how cops and fireman want to be paid for doing nothing. And how Boeing machinists work without competition.

    But that's OK, John. You keep doing business with the largest communist nation on earth, a nation that has ZERO concern for life, while you attack your hard working neighbors that are losing their homes due in part to dropping labor pay caused by a run to Communist nations for cheap labor. And then you can blame the run to communist countries on unions, cuz they built America while being un driven.

    Posted by crabwalk at 03/14/2009 @ 10:28am

24. What happened in America circa 1900 that has saved thousands of lives?

    Could it be the advent of ...unions? ..?

    Posted by crabwalk at 03/14/2009 @ 10:20am

    Yes, definately saved lives and now those rules are code into law...the union helped that come about..in 1900 in the US..

    ..today they are a drag on job growth, profits, and economic development in the US..

    China might need unions...perhaps YOU should go there too and show them, instead of chew my ass as I sell CHINA AMERICAN MADE PRODUCTS BUILt, DESIGNED, AND SHIPPED BY AMERICANS WHO DO NOT BELONG TO A UNION, WOULDN'T DREAM OF JOINING ONE, AND EARN MORE IN 6 MONTHS THAN ANY UNION WORKER IN A YEAR OR TWO.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 03/14/2009 @ 10:29am

25. Police and Firemen are govt workers...

    Boeing has to compete globaly with Airbus, a government run conglomeration, and as such, is losin g its ass to Boeing, a private company...and if they want to unionise, it is their right..no problem from me... however, should another company open up and try to compete with Boeing and have non union workers who are just as qualified..I would bet there would be HUGE pressure on labor costs at Boeing..

    TRY to understand...I am only saying that unions are a trap for people who just want to go to work and go home...that to me is not lazy, but just not driven to do something else..

    and all I am saying if one chooses that path, chances are they will never leave the path..a rut to me..maybe a paradise a home to you...

    juist don't be surprised when the realities of life end the union job.

    I was in a union for 2 years.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 03/14/2009 @ 10:35am

26. The one thing my kids don't do is worry about how much the next person has. Posted by fram at 03/14/2009 @ 10:08am

    The reason your kids don't worry about how much someone else has is probably because they have enough. And there is nothing wrong with that. Sounds like your Grandfather worked hard and both your parents. To the result that you got a decent education that enabled you to provide for your children. Nothing wrong with that.

    Unfortunately not everyone has had a Ward and June Cleaver upbringing that led to the fortunate outcome for you and your family. So what is wrong, is that you seem to hold your fortunate circumstances in high regard and feel entitled to feel that somehow you and yours are superior to the less fortunate.

    And your final word "Understand?" is a testament to that.

    In other words "Who in the Hell do you Think You Are?"

    Just a thought..

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 10:39am

27. Wow, Union members don't make $50 k in 2 years?

    Fascinating.

    Last year you were complaining that UAW members made 70 bucks an hour.

    You know, I would go to China and tell them about unions, but they might put me with the Chinese citizens that do that.. in a labor camp, hung upside down in the "airplane" position, burn me with cattle prods and sentence me to work.... in a mine.

    Interesting that union membership is dropping like a stone and JOM has to look to China for paying customers. Coincidence?

    "..today they are a drag on job growth, profits, and economic development in the US.. "-

    but meanwhile their membership is dropping. HOw do you balance what you claim, that UNIONS are dragging down the economy....while their membership wains? Is that anything like the 78% of Americans that call temselves Christian being under ATTACK from the 1.6% atheists?

    Or how about your fear of Eminent domain in the USA running amok?

    "Zheng and about a hundred residents of Shanghai's Dongbakuai neighbourhood, whose property was expropriated without adequate compensation, were turned back at the Shanghai Supreme People's Court on Tuesday when they tried to register to observe the trial of property developer Zhou Zhengyi

    On Tuesday morning, police surrounded Zheng on his way to court, beat him in front of many passer-bys and then dragged him to his sister-in-law Jiang Zhongli's house. Five police cars and more than 30 police officers were allegedly blocking the exits of the street, keeping the latter's home under close surveillance"

    Posted by crabwalk at 03/14/2009 @ 10:40am

28. "All attempts at establishing independent workers' organisations are repressed. Organisers are arrested. Some are sentenced to forced labour (officially called "reform through labour", or "lao gai") after criminal trials in which their rights as defendants are systematically ignored. Others are sent to "rehabilitation through labour" ("Lao jiao", formerly translated by the authorities as "re-education through labour"), a form of administrative detention in principle not exceeding three years and imposed by public security authorities without trial or the right of appeal. In practice, these periods of forced labour can be extended at the authorities' will, as has been proven in many cases. As a result, organisers of independent unions or other collective action by workers, such as protest demonstrations and marches or strikes, mostly remain underground. Fearing arrest, workers protesting at non-payment of wages, corruption, embezzlement of company funds and faked bankruptcies are generally reluctant to send representatives to negotiations with the authorities or the employer.

    Psychiatric detention

    Incarceration in a psychiatric unit is another form of punishment meted out to labour activists. Wang Wanxing and Wang Miaogen, both involved in the Workers' Autonomous Federations (WAF), have been incarcerated in psychiatric hospitals for almost ten years. Another labour activist, Pen Yuzhang, a member of the Changsha Workers' Autonomous Federation in 1989, has also been held in a psychiatric institution; government reports about his release have not been independently confirmed.

    Posted by crabwalk at 03/14/2009 @ 10:44am

29. "In June 1, Di Tiangui, 57, formerly a state employee at Dazhong Machinery Factory, was jailed in a detention centre in Taiyuan, capital of Shanxi province, on suspicion of "establishing an illegal organisation". In fact, he had attempted to set up a national federation for 30 million workers retired from State-owned enterprises, many of whom had been left destitute by the restructuring and privatisation of the Chinese economy. On July 15, Di was formally charged with "incitement to subvert State power", a charge that often leads to heavy prison sentences. While in detention, Di remained shackled and handcuffed "in a way making it impossible for him to stand upright", according to relatives who visited him on June 21. His health had deteriorated precipitously since he had been arrested. Intimidated by this treatment, other independent labour activists in the area had gone into hiding.

    Heavy prison sentences against two trade union rights defenders

    Hu Mingjun and Wang Sen, two workers' rights activists who are also provincial leaders in Sichuan Province of the China Democratic Party (CDP), which is not recognized by the authorities, were arrested in April and May 2001 respectively, and charged with "incitement to subvert the power of the state" - a charge that carries a maximum sentence of 5 years' imprisonment. They were given a secret trial at Dazhou Intermediate People's Court, over one year later, on May 30 2002, and sentenced to 11 and 10 years' imprisonment respectively, after the charge had been changed to "subversion", a more serious charge, frequently levelled at independent labour activists. No information was available at year's end concerning Zheng Yongliang, who had been arrested at the same time as Hu and Wang. "

    Posted by crabwalk at 03/14/2009 @ 10:50am

30. "At least four leaders and activists of the underground "Free Labour Union of China" (FLUC), which was an attempt to organise an independent trade union organisation in Beijing, in 1992, remained in detention throughout the year. They are: Hu Shigen, sentenced to 20 years; he suffers from liver, heart and stomach illnesses and has developed a hearing impairment while in jail; Kang Yuchun, sentenced to 17 years, seriously ill with heart problems; Liu Jingsheng, sentenced to 15 years, who has a history of gastric problems, has lost his teeth and suffers from hypertension, and Wang Guoqi, a printer, sentenced to 11 years, seriously ill with scabies.

    More recent cases include Cai Guangye, a doctor employed in a military hospital, arrested in December 2001 for supporting protesting workers at a chemicals company in Jilin; Lu Wenbin, a special correspondent for the Textile Daily newspaper, arrested on December 22, 2001 for documenting a strike and interviewing workers at the Huainan Textile Factory in Dafeng; Li Wangyang, a veteran independent trade union activist, sentenced to 10 years' forced labour on September 20 2001, and his sister Li Wangling, sentenced to 3 years' re-education through labour on June 7 2001 for helping him to publicise his demands; Li Jiaqing, a leader of the independent labour movement in Zhengzhou, Henan province, arrested in August 2000 and charged with disrupting social order on February 13 2001, and Liao Shihua, detained in June 1999 after organising a protest by workers of the Changsha Automobile Electrical Equipment Factory and sentenced in December 1999 to six years' imprisonment. Except for his case, no information about the detainees mentioned in this paragraph was available at year's end. "

    Posted by crabwalk at 03/14/2009 @ 10:55am

31. CHINA AMERICAN MADE PRODUCTS BUILt, DESIGNED, AND SHIPPED BY AMERICANS

    Posted by YourJomamma at 03/14/2009 @ 10:29am

    CHINA AMERICAN MADE PRODUCTS

    Try as I might I can't quite wrap my head around that string of words. "China American Made"

    BUILt, DESIGNED, AND SHIPPED BY AMERICANS

    If they are built, designed and shipped by Americans, what does that have to do with China? Are you exporting American Made Products to China?

    EARN MORE IN 6 MONTHS THAN ANY UNION WORKER IN A YEAR OR TWO.

    Maybe you would like to expand on that. What are you selling? And how do you pay workers what must be well over $150,000 a year to manufacture products to export to China?

    Something smells here..

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 11:10am

32. And your final word "Understand?" is a testament to that.

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 10:39am

    Obviously chaos, you don't. Perhaps you should re-read my post. It was Ccc who was jealous of what other people had...not me.

    As to having good parents, I came into this world the same as everyone else. In other words, I started with the same chance as everyone else. Having two loving parents didn't lead to or guarantee anything. Remember the Menedez brothers?

    As for some less fortunate people who didn't have two parents growing up, I can lay that right at the feet of liberals, too. It was liberal policy that told women they don't need fathers to help raise their children. It was liberal policy that paid women to have babies. It was liberal policy that has torn families apart. It was liberal policy that has given us a permanent welfare state. You can resent what I'm saying all you want, but it's the truth. It was the liberal's intentions to help people but, just once, why don't you step back for a moment and truely examine the results.

    Posted by fram at 03/14/2009 @ 11:26am

33. Obviously chaos, you don't. Perhaps you should re-read my post. It was Ccc who was jealous of what other people had...not me. Posted by fram at 03/14/2009 @ 11:26am

    Maybe you should re-read my post. I never claimed any jealousy on your part to what other people have. I just questioned your motives and response.

    Now you repeat this obsession with jealousy. Which leads me to believe you are being disingenuous when you describe your circumstances.

    Then you blame, repeatedly, liberal policies in an attempt to blame those policies for an imagined scenario that has liberals paying women to have babies? And tearing families apart? Very strange.

    Most disturbing however is bringing up the "Menedez Brothers" as a supposed example of the perfect family gone terribly wrong. When you really have no idea of the internal dynamics of that family or what may have led to that tragedy. Seems like in some way you identify with that family.

    As usual. Another Wingnut..

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 11:49am

34. It was the liberal's intentions to help people but, just once, why don't you step back for a moment and truely examine the results.

    Posted by fram at 03/14/2009 @ 11:26am

    The results, from the POV of those of us who cherish and live by, self-determination & maximizing ones' opportunities (and in my case 22 yrs ago, turning lemon into lemonade), are quite obviously disasterous. Yet, to the libs, most anyway, the denial persists!

    One has to include as a possibility, perhaps the end goal of the Great Society, cynical and well-hidden by the inner-circle of policy designers, was in fact, to re-enslave America's blacks.

    I am tending to similar possibilities, as to Obama's present War on Business/Capital, cynically disguised as HOPE AND CHANGE....to enslave the entire country....hence, `The Manchurian Magic' is within the realm of possibilities.

    By destroying the capital/stock market, folks willl gravitate far more into buying bonds as their only means of savings....these bonds, are then used by the Gubbers.....I mean, they've GOT TO KNOW that there isn't enough foreign buyers for the trillions and trillions of deficits designed into our future. Even I bought my first bond fund just in the past few weeks.........did I fall into a well-camouflaged trap????

    Posted by Happy at 03/14/2009 @ 11:53am

35. Posted by Happy at 03/14/2009 @ 11:53am

    Hey HAPP! So sorry to see you have irretrievably imploded into incomprehensible gibberish. I see it happening all throughout the wingnut insect hive. Just take it easy, and stop mainlining the Koolaid. Find a safe place to Detox. And try to find a reliable liberal to bring you down safely.

    Best of Luck!

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 12:08pm

36. The pro-central control advocates (Pelosi, Boxer, Feinstein, Reid, Kennedy, Obama, etc. have been successful in dictating to Americans what type light bulbs we may use, etc. Of course those Marxist-Leninists overlooked the fact such "new" bulbs will be available in a very limited range, thus obsoleting millions of fixtures, and the fact the mercury poisons in them will likely further degrade the brain-power of future generations since no adequate provision for disposal of burned-out mercury-laden bulbs was made. Sadly this is typical of what central-planners do, other than remove choice.

    Now the latest is the elimination of the secret ballot.

    Jimmy Hoffa would have loved this latest sceme of the central-planners to require or allow over-the-shoulder supervision of voters by the "toughs" who ensure voters select the "politically-correct" so-called choice.

    The so-called "Employee Free Choice Act" basically provides that voters' kneecaps would be at risk of removal by baseball bats wielded by toughs there to persuade Americans in the voting booth. Allowing "Carmine", "Vito","Jose",or "Jesus" to peer over our shoulders to ensure we "vote" in open the way their "boss of all bosses" insist is yet another giant step into the Gulags.

    Posted by tucanofulano at 03/14/2009 @ 12:09pm

37. imagined scenario that has liberals paying women to have babies? And tearing families apart? Very strange.

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 11:49am

    There is nothing imagined about it. I didn't say liberals were paying the women, it's the welfare policies that liberals champion that does it. You've never heard of LBJ's "Great Society"?

    Do we have to sit down and actually draw you a picture?

    Posted by fram at 03/14/2009 @ 12:10pm

38. I am only saying that unions are a trap for people who just want to go to work and go home

    Posted by YourJomamma at 03/14/2009 @ 10:35am

    I am one of those who just wants to work and go home. So if you want to make more money than me, go on with your bad self. Other things are more important to me. I will not agitate for redistributing your wealth into the greenshirt brigades or paid pro-government picketers or save-the-boweevil programs.

    Unions are not the government, they are a means by which skilled, hard-working people can take back from the great capitalist system something commensurate with what they put in.

    Posted by gangpapist at 03/14/2009 @ 12:12pm

39. Best of Luck!

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 12:08pm

    Sound like to me, you're part of the inner-Manchurians!

    GDP decline of just a "not so bad" 1.2% and growth resumes (in 2010) at 4%.....your Koolaid works on the hopeychangers, but I don't touch the stuff.

    Posted by Happy at 03/14/2009 @ 12:24pm

40. So who has caused more misery in the world... the small percentage of people who game the system from the bottom, or the small percentage who game it from the top...take your time...

    Posted by dekist at 03/14/2009 @ 12:33pm

41. Think...

    Posted by dekist at 03/14/2009 @ 12:35pm

42. Think harder...

    Posted by dekist at 03/14/2009 @ 12:36pm

43. You can do it...

    Posted by dekist at 03/14/2009 @ 12:36pm

44. Waiting for rationalization...

    Posted by dekist at 03/14/2009 @ 12:37pm

45. I feel moral certitude building...

    Posted by dekist at 03/14/2009 @ 12:37pm

46. Come on...

    Posted by dekist at 03/14/2009 @ 12:39pm

47. Now the latest is the elimination of the secret ballot. Posted by tucanofulano at 03/14/2009 @ 12:09pm

    Have you even read the legislation? Of course not. You most likely get your information from insect brained idiots like Hannity, Drudge, Limbaugh, Ingraham, Coulter or a host of other body snatchers.

    The law in the legislation does not eliminate the use of a secret ballot in the workers decision to form a union. It gives the workers the ability to decide which process to use. Card check or Secret Ballot. In most cases workers will chose Card Check in order to expedite the process.

    In fact the current legislation does not require a process that is any different from a voters participation in an election. When you register as a Republican, Democrat, Independent, Green Party or whatever, it is no secret. It is visible to all. But when you enter the voting booth, you do so in private and cast your vote.

    Same with Card Check. There is no vote in public. You vote in private.

    As far as thugs breaking kneecaps or whatever, that is a ridiculous picture taken out of some imagined Hollywood movie from the past. In fact even evoking the picture of that could be construed as a terroristic inflammatory act.

    Check your B.S. at the door asshole.

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 12:39pm

48. Do we have to sit down and actually draw you a picture?

    Posted by fram at 03/14/2009 @ 12:10pm

    Im sorry, maybe you didn't inderstand. I have dismissed you..

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 12:43pm

49. Unions are not the government, they are a means by which skilled, hard-working people can take back from the great capitalist system something commensurate with what they put in.

    Posted by gangpapist at 03/14/2009 @ 12:12pm

    "commensurate with what they put in" is so subjective as to be unenforcible!

    While union contracts fix wages, commonly with stepped increases in wage and/or benefits, the market place does not have fixed demand much less stepped increases in prices. I'm not talking about a business contract to build a building for xyz dollars and completion in 24 months, or an Accenture consulting contract to implement SAP.

    Union contracts take away one of the biggest `tool' of a business to in fact, judge whether its labor costs are too high by wage-reductions, work-sharing, rescheduling work to take advantage of lower (nightime, for eg) power costs, etc.......In some really bad contracts, they even prohibit savings from layoffs (re the finally abolished Job Bank programs of US automakers).

    What union contracts are today, is the greatest anti-competitive leg iron of any unionized business. They seek to equalize the labor cost factors while forcing companies to rely on other tactics to improve sales/profits via lobbying, corrupting of purchasers (kickbacks), marketing (Madison Ave. branding), and the more exotic financial `engineering' and disguised offshoring.

    In this age of globalization, flexibility must be maximized......not doing so is suicide by a thousand cuts.

    Posted by Happy at 03/14/2009 @ 12:45pm

50. In this age of globalization, flexibility must be maximized......not doing so is suicide by a thousand cuts.

    Posted by Happy at 03/14/2009 @ 12:45pm

    More meaningless Jabber from the HAPPster!

    I thought you were on your way to the Detox facility?

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 12:53pm

51. As far as thugs breaking kneecaps or whatever, that is a ridiculous picture taken out of some imagined Hollywood movie from the past. In fact even evoking the picture of that could be construed as a terroristic inflammatory act.

    Check your B.S. at the door asshole.

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 12:3

    Then you must never have had any experience with the Teamsters. I witnessed plenty of violence during the 5 years I was in the Teamsters. Some of it everyone knew was ordered from higher ups. I saw managers get their legs broken in "accidents". Scabs get run over.

    Is that kind of violence everywhere? No it isn't. but don't say it's movie fiction, you don't know what you're talking about.

    Just this week, we had the LA teachers union (UTLA) threatening any one who didn't support their demand to have no layoffs. One radio station read a number of the threats over the air.

    Posted by antisocialist at 03/14/2009 @ 1:06pm

52. Posted by antisocialist at 03/14/2009 @ 1:06pm

    I'm not saying that Unions or Management have never been violent. By grandfather was a longshoreman and related to me his experiences back in the 30's in California ports when longshoreman would battle company thugs for the right to strike. That's how we got many of the hard fought concessions for workers that most labor takes for granted today.

    My grandfather admitted to the fact that Union workers fought and were killed and also killed in these altercations. There is no doubt about that. But it is ridiculous to assume that the violence that occured then has any relevance now.

    I don't condone violence in the course of Union negotiations. But it is after all a constant economic war between the greedy and those who preform the work. It can become emotional. What do you expect?

    I have been active in Unions from the Sheet Metal Workers Union to the Ironworkers to the APWU and I have never yet seen any violence whatever. So you are full of shit as far as my experience goes. Threats occur. So what? We are fighting for our lives.

    If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen and continue to suck the ass of your corporate hero..

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 1:36pm

53. More meaningless Jabber from the HAPPster!

    I thought you were on your way to the Detox facility?

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 12:53pm

    You've had more than your share of chances to contribute...and, now, you have used up your bandwidth w/me.

    In this Age of Wealth Destruction, I'm much less charitable, with my money and time......`click'!

    Posted by Happy at 03/14/2009 @ 1:54pm

54. all this talk of unions and management....

    kinda reminds me of the scene in bowling for columbine where mr. moore is interviewing the missile-making dude and the dude says he has no idea why there's so much violence in today's world, and all the while he's standing in front of the biggyrocket human vaporizer.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 03/14/2009 @ 1:54pm

55. Posted by frosty zoom at 03/14/2009 @ 1:54pm

    Do you honestly think that making weapons for the military is what causes violence here and elsewhere in the world?

    Violence comes from the fallen nature of mankind Frosty and all of your wishing otherwise will not change that.

    Posted by antisocialist at 03/14/2009 @ 2:00pm

56. Posted by frosty zoom at 03/14/2009 @ 1:54pm

    Moies, ahhhhh....I just bought Da Vinci Code from eBay 15 min. ago.....read the novel about a month ago and couldn't find it in the `Used' section at my neighborhood Blockbuster. Today, rainy & cold here, decided to bite the bullet and blow $6...what the heck, to help the economy and all!

    Didn't see that "columbine" movie and don't know how good/bad it is....you recommend? Have yet to see any of Moore's work.

    Posted by Happy at 03/14/2009 @ 2:01pm

57. The Orwellian 'Employee Free Choice Act' aka the 'Union Thug Empowerment Act' provides a good example of a two-fer when it comes to illustrating the principles of lefty ideology - forcing people to do something 'for their own good', while also lying about it while they're doing it. Even many lefties, like George McGovern, won't go along with this sham. Many of the remainder can be found here on site of The Nation.

    Posted by pontificus at 03/14/2009 @ 2:13pm

58. Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 1:36p

    I can see why you're against a secret ballot. It's hard to intimidate people to vote for the union when you don't know how they voted, isn't it?

    Posted by pontificus at 03/14/2009 @ 2:17pm

59. More meaningless Jabber from the HAPPster!

    I thought you were on your way to the Detox facility?

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 12:53pm

    You've had more than your share of chances to contribute...and, now, you have used up your bandwidth w/me.

    In this Age of Wealth Destruction, I'm much less charitable, with my money and time......`click'!

    Posted by Happy at 03/14/2009 @ 1:54pm

    ????? LOL! The "click!" part was just an entirely satisfing blogging experience. And the bandwidth thingie was the icing on the cake.

    Does the HAPPster have bandwidth? The kernal density estimation of HAPP's bandwidth must be somewhere between 0 Hz and -0 Hz.

    Gotta Love it..

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 2:17pm

60. Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 2:17pm

    It's people like you who demonstrate that thuggery in America hasn't disappeared, it's only in remission, like a virus in the body, waiting for the right conditions to come back out and fester. In this case, you and people like you would just love to make people vote in public, so you can threaten them into voting the 'right' way. It's too bad real Americans can't ship you folks over to somewhere like North Korea or some other dictatorship, where thugs like you would be welcomed.

    Posted by pontificus at 03/14/2009 @ 2:22pm

61. Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 1:36p

    I can see why you're against a secret ballot. It's hard to intimidate people to vote for the union when you don't know how they voted, isn't it?

    Posted by pontificus at 03/14/2009 @ 2:17pm

    When did I ever say I was against the secret ballot? Your another repug living in the insect brain of an alternate reality.

    I said the Employee's have a democratic decision with the Free Choice Act between a choice of Card Check and Secret Ballot. And then I indicated that even when using Card Check there was no violation of privacy. The employee's still vote in private. No different than when you go to the polls to vote for a Governor a Senator a Congressman or a local Representative.

    No one knows how anyone votes. What are you dickweeds afraid of? I know you are afraid, otherwise you would not be so full of lies..

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 2:31pm

62. It's too bad real Americans can't ship you folks over to somewhere like North Korea or some other dictatorship, where thugs like you would be welcomed.

    Posted by pontificus at 03/14/2009 @ 2:22pm

    Since when do the North Koreans allow Unions or Democratic votes? Are you nuts? Well nevermind, your previous post is answer enough to that question..

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 2:36pm

63. Posted by YourJomamma at 03/14/2009 @ 09:50am

    Again. I have to agree with Darin. Saying anyone can achieve anything is ignoring circumstance. Not anyone can be a billionaire. The reason Bill Gates is a billionaire isn't because of just hard work. He was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time. LUCKY. He happened to be in his university at the time when someone else was coming up with the idea for the desktop pc. He latched on, then took credit. So many cases of people "working" their way up to being billionaires are cases of happening to be in the right place at the right time. So not EVERYONE can be a billionaire those who happen to be in the right place at the right time can be.

    Again how can you say everyone has an equal chance when the poor have a better chance of ending up in jail than going to college? You are ignoring reality and subscribing to sentimentality if you believe that if anyone just works hard they can move up. Life doesn't work that way. I appreciate your sentimental attitude. But go to a poor neighborhood where a single mother is working 2 or 3 jobs to raise her children. She is working harder than most anyone and is not moving anywhere.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/14/2009 @ 2:47pm

64. I believe they are cowering before the sight of a level playing field.

    Posted by snowball666 at 03/14/2009 @ 2:37pm

    Yes they are! And it is a pleasure to watch them squirm in an out of the intestines of their foul existence, like the worms they are.

    A level playing field is an anathema to their one sided view of the world. These vampires cannot exist in the light of day. And they wither and die when confronted with a rational and fair arena.

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 2:51pm

65. Again how can you say everyone has an equal chance when the poor have a better chance of ending up in jail than going to college? Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/14/2009 @ 2:47pm

    Thats why we need free education for all through college and beyond. Education is the enemy of those that wish to remain in an elite economic position. That is precisely why they constantly attack public education, science, mathmatics and all forms of higher education.

    They want the people to be hamstrung by ignorance so that they can take advantage and essentially enslave the population through exclusion.

    Their motives are not difficult to understand or defeat. Education by it's very nature is the way to level the playing field. It is the very thing that evil wishes to suppress.

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 3:02pm

66. Thats why we need free education for all through college and beyond.

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 3:02pm

    I was with you on the unions, but then you dropped that bomb. As is, American kids go to college to get drunk for six years, then take some antibiotics to shake the clap off, and get a job at the FBI looking for bin Laden in broom closets. And that's when they're paying for it (or mom and dad).

    Make it free and you'll have a 10% grad rate. No incentive to show up for class, and our K-12 system barely prepares kids to maybe get a degree in Lesbian Samoan studies.

    But don't despair. Only thing of value left at the U's is the sciences, but we can import people from India for that. There's like eleventy gazillion people in India and all of them are smart. I've recently started eating curry every day and my vocabulary has improved expo-nentially.

    We Americans need to go to trade schools or get apprenticeships, if we're lucky, and collectively bargain with the Man.

    Posted by gangpapist at 03/14/2009 @ 3:29pm

67. We Americans need to go to trade schools or get apprenticeships, if we're lucky, and collectively bargain with the Man.

    Posted by gangpapist at 03/14/2009 @ 3:29pm

    The Finnish have a free education system and they are the smartest students in the world judging by testing. So what's the difference in the kids?

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/14/2009 @ 3:44pm

68. Try as I might I can't quite wrap my head around that string of words. "China American Made"

    BUILt, DESIGNED, AND SHIPPED BY AMERICANS

    If they are built, designed and shipped by Americans, what does that have to do with China? Are you exporting American Made Products to China?

    EARN MORE IN 6 MONTHS THAN ANY UNION WORKER IN A YEAR OR TWO.

    Maybe you would like to expand on that. What are you selling? And how do you pay workers what must be well over $150,000 a year to manufacture products to export to China?

    Something smells here..

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 11:10am

    Read the 2 little words before the capitalised word China...

    Hint: I sell....

    ...perhaps for the "challenged" amonst the blog I should have inserted the word "to" between Sell and CHINA...

    The people that build our units earn $40k per machine and it takes 2 months to build a machine.. and the sales people on the phone earn 20% commission on any contract they land for domestic service. The average contract is around $ 100k but many are at the $35-50k level...remember we are new business and growing..I just landed Miller for $200k for a 45 day contract, and a refinery may take us on full time...We are also testing for a nuclear power plant and have contacted some coal fired plants. We pay the scanners $50k a year to start..

    Our goal is to have the least paid person earning $100k a year plus stocks and bennys...this will last until competition enters in about 8 years when the patents run out.. I plan to be in the Islands 3 years before that..

    Posted by YourJomamma at 03/14/2009 @ 3:49pm

69. This article is so cynically hilarious & did bring a smile.....Oh, Magic, Yes They Can! God Bless America's Young, from Orange County Register:

    March 14, 2009 7:00 AM

    The Brokest Generation

    Our kids are the ultimate credit market, and the rest of us are all pre-approved!

    By Mark Steyn

    Just between you, me, and the old, the late middle-aged, and the early middle-aged: Isn't it terrific to be able to stick it to the young? I mean, imagine how bad all this economic-type stuff would be if our kids and grandkids hadn't offered to pick up the tab.

    Well, okay, they didn't exactly "offer" but they did stand around behind Barack Obama at all those campaign rallies helping him look dynamic and telegenic and earnestly chanting hopey-hopey-changey-changey. And "Yes, we can!"

    Which is a pretty open-ended commitment.

    Are you sure you young folks will be able to pay off this massive Mount Spendmore of multi-trillion-dollar debts we've piled up on you?

    "Yes, we can!"

    We thought you'd say that! God bless the youth of America! We of the Greatest Generation, the Boomers, and Generation X salute you, the plucky members of the Brokest Generation, the Gloomers, and Generation Y,....

    Because, as politicians like to say, it's about "the future of all our children." And the future of all our children is that they'll be paying off the past of all their grandparents. At 12 percent of GDP, this year's deficit is the highest since the Second World War, and prioritizes not economic vitality but massive expansion of government. But hey, it's not our problem....You're the ultimate credit market, and the rest of us are all pre-approved!

    ......

    Posted by Happy at 03/14/2009 @ 4:58pm

70. Are you sure you young folks will be able to pay off this massive Mount Spendmore of multi-trillion-dollar debts we've piled up on you?

    Posted by Happy at 03/14/2009 @ 4:58pm

    Maybe we can work it off with mandatory five year stints washing dishes in Chinese restaraunts. Real Chinese restaraunts in China. Oh crap, I hope they have Sesame Chicken!

    Posted by gangpapist at 03/14/2009 @ 5:14pm

71. I hope they have Sesame Chicken!

    Posted by gangpapist at 03/14/2009 @ 5:14pm

    I always go for the Kung Pao Chicken, slightly spicy, lunch special....$5.95 + tea....one of my `regular' lunches.

    Wouldn't you know the coincidence, with four friends, we'll be hitting a Chinese restaurant, reservation at 7 pm, having pre-ordered (2 hour advance notice required) Beijing Duck.....yum, yum!

    Posted by Happy at 03/14/2009 @ 5:27pm

72. Posted by Happy at 03/14/2009 @ 5:27pm

    I want duck! Instead I'm making steak and potatoes.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/14/2009 @ 5:50pm

73. Posted by Happy at 03/14/2009 @ 5:27pm

    I want duck! Instead I'm making steak and potatoes.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/14/2009 @ 5:50pm

    In China they have Sesame chicken, Kung Pao Chicken and a thousand varieties of everything...with 1.3 biullion people, everyhing is in the food chain...and on the menu...starting with the slowest creatures and working up...

    But CCC,..I have never had Peking Duck like I had in Beijing....unbelievable...a large duck prepared for you at the table constantly, along with 10 side dishes and 1 litre beers...for 4 people...multiple beers...the duck was ..I can't even describe it...

    for $40 including tip....

    Posted by YourJomamma at 03/14/2009 @ 6:41pm

74. Regardless of what the internal politics of the unions may be, the Free Choice Act will be a boon for our Economy. Labor must be a force in order to reinvigorate the middle class. Hopefully, congress will pass this legislation and the president will sign it.

    Posted by erazma at 03/14/2009 @ 7:03pm

75. Didn't see that "columbine" movie and don't know how good/bad it is....you recommend? Have yet to see any of Moore's work.

    Posted by Happy at 03/14/2009 @ 2:01p

    columbine is good. mr. moore can be over the top, but he makes some good points.

    nonetheless, i'm not one to recommend movies as i only watch godzilla or old b-movies.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 03/14/2009 @ 7:16pm

76. I always knew godzilla was a communist.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 03/14/2009 @ 6:41pm

    Holy shnikees! That sounds like sum DUCK!

    Posted by gangpapist at 03/14/2009 @ 11:07pm

77. godzilla is a product of the human's lack of respect for our world.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 03/15/2009 @ 01:49am

78. for all you palinoids:

    According to Taxpayers for Common Sense, a Washington-based watchdog group, Alaska will receive more money, per capita, from the bill's earmarks than any other state. (Alaska will pocket $209.71 for each state resident.) One hundred earmarks in the bill, worth a total of $143.9 million, are tagged for Palin's state.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 03/15/2009 @ 01:52am

79. the airport to nowhere:

    The Alaska earmarks also include $1.2 million for construction work on an airport on Akutan, a tiny island that relies on seaplane for contact with the Alaskan mainland.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 03/15/2009 @ 01:54am

80. According to Taxpayers for Common Sense, a Washington-based watchdog group, Alaska will receive more money, per capita, from the bill's earmarks than any other state. (Alaska will pocket $209.71 for each state resident.) One hundred earmarks in the bill, worth a total of $143.9 million, are tagged for Palin's state.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 03/15/2009 @ 01:52am

    She will be for it, against it, for it, against it, then for it before she is against it. For it when she puts the check in the bank, against it when she speaks at the next con love fest, which likely will not be another AIP "we hate America" party. Bill Ayers was not seen at any AIP party, BTW.

    -----

    Notice the continued misinformation campaign spewing forth from PONTIFICUS and the other cons. They keep saying the EFCA takes away the secret ballot, even after several people explain the reality to them? WTF? Why is that? Could it be because they listen to the same people that told them about wmd's, Plame not being covert and that the recession started on Nov 5, 2008? Why would a person continue to spread misinformation when they have the actual facts before them? Could it be ideology trumps reality, again?

    Could it be that if we want unions we should go to N. Korea....because why again?

    Could it be that by looking at Swedens system we will end up like Cuba?

    Or is it that by citing Chinas union breaking abuses we support the Chinese support of N. Korea?

    Could it be that those that claim kool-aid drinking as a part of the "left" are even more guilty than those they attempt to sway with their misinformation campaign?

    PONTI, what do you think of our 2nd largest trading partners support of N. Korea? When was the last time you saw a "lefty" praising N. Korea?

    Posted by crabwalk at 03/15/2009 @ 09:19am

81. Simplest way to keep out unions:

    Pay people good wages, keep your workplace safe, treat your employees like human beings not resources.

    Like JOMAMMA says he is doing.

    gasp!

    It's so hard to understand.

    Posted by crabwalk at 03/15/2009 @ 09:24am

82. At least Bush destroyed OTHER countries.

    Posted by abell12ct at 03/15/2009 @ 09:40am

83. Crab,

    Regarding keeping out unions, the business plan we built is based on all in our little company working hard and earn our reward based on our production. Not who has sernority bullshit or we get paid no matter what or we shut down and kill off the whole business.

    Everything that unions are about we are against with vigor. And no lib loon politician with an umcomfortabe to listen to lisp is going to tell us what to pay the CEO or the guy who assembles the final phase based on some formula devised by an ice cream company in Vermont.

    And anyone who is disatisfied with the working conditions or the compensation us free to find work elsewhere. We are too small for a union shop. If it came to that problem, we would easily farm out various process to other shops that don't have unions either. It's after the entrepenuers have struggle, starved, worked 80 hrs a week with no pay,and built a market where none or the jobs hadn't existed before that some thug comes around with a GED education decides those working with us are now against us and demands a chunk of the pie.

    Won't happen,what we will do is send them down to the workers paradise..... The public school district or the govt hiring office, with a glowing letter of recommendation,of course.

    We do not require unskilled workers and at this point we see no use for any and therefore I fertile ground fir union formation.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 03/15/2009 @ 10:16am

84. typo...therefore no fertile ground for..

    Posted by YourJomamma at 03/15/2009 @ 10:58am

85. He only destroyed wealth in the US.

    Posted by snowball666 at 03/15/2009 @ 11:02am

    What complete and utter BS.

    Posted by antisocialist at 03/15/2009 @ 11:30am

86. We know that,while you can pick us off as individuals, we can take you on together.

    Posted by snowball666 at 03/15/2009 @ 11:37am

    Those that work with us as we grow...would never let you in the door...you are a job killer...

    you watch.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 03/15/2009 @ 12:06pm

87. Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 2:51pm

    "A level playing field is an anathema to their one sided view of the world. These vampires cannot exist in the light of day. And they wither and die when confronted with a rational and fair arena."

    If it wasn't so despicable, it would be funny how you lefties project your wretched view of things on those who disagree with you.

    Your latest attempt to hide your agenda from the truth is that under the EFCA, people can 'request a secret ballot', rather than just agree to pressure from union organizers to join the union. In essence, the very fact that a worker must 'request' what should be his/her by right (a secret ballot) amounts to stripping the worker of that right, because why would anyone in favor a the union not simply sign the card check up front? In actuality, anyone with the temerity to 'request' a secret ballot will be targeted as a 'scab' or someone who does not support the union.

    But you already knew this, it's just that you will continue to lie to other people and yourselves, because it furthers the interests of your thuggery. Even if you people win this fight, you will still be the losers, because you are execrable, dishonorable people, and that is its own punsihment.

    Posted by pontificus at 03/15/2009 @ 1:10pm

88. Posted by chaoszen at 03/14/2009 @ 2:51pm

    The Union Thug Empowerment Act (EFCA) illustrates the very essence of liberalism in America - coercing people to follow leftist ideas, while simultaneously denying doing so. Kudos to you for following your indoctrination just as you have been programmed to do.

    For an advanced realization of this philosophy, check out Hugo Chavez's forcing of food companies to provide free food in order to prop up his thuggish regime. Same principles in action.

    Posted by pontificus at 03/15/2009 @ 1:26pm

89. Anyone who thinks thuggishness is all on the union side has no idea. At one time, it was about physical survival on the line. The assembly line, that is. Once upon a time there was the famous "Ford Services Department", headed up by Harry Bennett and company. Re "Battle of the Overpass", 1937. One wrong word to this assortment of ex-boxers and felons and they would FOLLOW YOU HOME to make their point.

    Now THERE was a crew.

    P.S. I forgot who asked about it, but someone was asking about why in Detroit there's such abundant steam coming up from the manhole covers. I believe that is because of the advanced state of disrepair to the city's underground steam delivery system.

    Pedestrians beware!

    Posted by schnellerheinz at 03/15/2009 @ 2:20pm

90. Go Red Wings.

    Posted by schnellerheinz at 03/15/2009 @ 2:22pm

91. Posted by YourJomamma at 03/14/2009 @ 6:41pm

    Sounds absolutely and utterly delicious.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/15/2009 @ 3:14pm

92. For those who want to watch, this is a hefty 20 minute video but well worth watching, this is from the TED convention. It's a speech by Mike Rowe, the star of dirty jobs, creator of many Discovery Channel shows, and practically the voice of discovery channel. This speech is about his celebration of dirty jobs. As well as what he has deemed the American war on work that we all participate in. Not just Republicans or Democrats. Republicans AND Democrats. Hollywood AND Madison Ave. All of us in different ways. Republicans denigrated hardworking people by calling them mediocre and lazy. Democrats denigrate them by making them out to be charity cases. This speech makes a lot of fine points about how we as Americans have sought to basically insult and put down most skilled labor in this country. It is very humorous and the first couple minutes are a story about castrating sheep, disclaimer to the weak of stomach.

    I highly recommend watching it. Or don't, I don't care but I found it really interesting and poignant considering today's discussion. Here is the link:

    http://tinyurl.com/cpxvs2

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/15/2009 @ 3:22pm

93. Missing in all these comments about the EFCA is an issue that should not be overlooked: THE CURRENT SYSTEM IN THE U.S. FOR FORMING UNIONS IS BROKEN. This should be a big deal to anybody who believes the Constitution should apply to Americans (re: First Amendment, Freedom of Assembly/Association). If the majority of workers want to be in a union, then they should have a union.

    To quote Rep. George Miller (D-Calif.), chairman of the U.S. House Committee on Education and Labor:

    "The current process for forming unions is badly broken and so skewed in favor of those who oppose unions, that workers must literally risk their jobs in order to form a union. Although it is illegal, one-quarter of employers facing an organizing drive have been found to fire at least one worker who supports a union. In fact, employees who are active union supporters have a one-in-five chance of being fired for legal union activities. Sadly, many employers resort to spying, threats, intimidation, harassment and other illegal activity in their campaigns to oppose unions. The penalty for illegal activity, including firing workers for engaging in protected activity, is so weak that it does little to deter law breakers.

    Even when employers don't break the law, the process itself stacks the deck against union supporters. The employer has all the power; they control the information workers can receive, can force workers to attend anti-union meetings during work hours, can require workers to meet with supervisors who deliver anti-union messages, and can even imply that the business will close if the union wins. Union supporters' access to employees, on the other hand, is heavily restricted."

    Does an employer-dominated union certification system sound like democracy to you? It does not to me.

    Posted by garethhe at 03/16/2009 @ 02:07am

94. the very fact that a worker must 'request' what should be his/her by right (a secret ballot) amounts to stripping the worker of that right, because why would anyone in favor a the union not simply sign the card check up front? Posted by pontificus at 03/15/2009 @ 1:10pm

    In the latest version of the bill employee's (not a single worker) can request a secret ballot election if 30% of the employees petition for one. Which allows the "employee's" rather than the employer the right to decide to use a secret ballot or not. As it is now if the employee's elect to use a card check process the employer can chose to accept the results or not. This is patently unfair.

    And you are correct in your assumption that those in favor of a Union would chose to use card check rather than secret ballot in order to expedite the process and avoid harassment by the employer. Are you afraid of empowering people to use their democratic right to form a Union to represent their interests? If so you are un-american.

    Polls indicate that 73% of Americans support the EFCA. That is not only a majority it is a mandate. Why do you wish to deny your fellow Americans the right to use collective bargaining?

    Posted by chaoszen at 03/16/2009 @ 09:05am

95. ....the process itself stacks the deck against union supporters. The employer has all the power; they control the information workers can receive, can force workers to attend anti-union meetings during work hours, can require workers to meet with supervisors who deliver anti-union messages, and can even imply that the business will close if the union wins. Union supporters' access to employees, on the other hand, is heavily restricted."....

    Posted by garethhe at 03/16/2009 @ 02:07am

    You object to workers listening to the employer's viewpoint while `on the clock' being paid? Maybe we should allow employers to visit employees at home or perhaps sponsor after-work gatherings, lubed w/free food & drinks & bands, to listen to their pitch. Sounds good to me......much cheaper than to lose hours of productivity for a lot of employees.

    I suppose since you approve of unions fixing wages, you would have no problem for employers to fix prices and force its customers to buy set quantities....just to be Fair and Balanced and all.

    Posted by Happy at 03/16/2009 @ 11:01am

96. Exactly how much control over my person should I cede to my employer during work hours?

    Posted by snowball666 at 03/16/2009 @ 07:27am

    Theoretically total....as long as you're being paid for all 60 min. of each hour to carry out the normal tasks of your employers' business. Any time you take for chit-chatting breaks, union contracted or just informal, toilet-hugging, blogging, personal emailing/phoning, etc...are `gifts'.

    I had been an employer and there is absolutely no desire to be one again.......and unionism was not a factor at all.

    Posted by Happy at 03/16/2009 @ 11:13am

97. You object to workers listening to the employer's viewpoint while `on the clock' being paid?

    Posted by Happy at 03/16/2009 @ 11:01am

    Yes, I do. I object to a system where employers have essentially unlimited access to "inform" workers of their rights to not join a union while unions have extremely circumstribed access to "inform" workers of their rights to join a union. You do not see a problem with employers using time (and money) to politically indoctrinate/intimidate their workers? Employers should not dominate in the union-formation process. Employers currently do dominate in the union-formation process. And this needs to change.

    I object to a system where the right to free speech applies only to those with wealth. I do not believe that property rights are inviolate. There are points in which human rights should take precedence over property rights, and this is one of them.

    Ideally, let's have a system where employers and unions have equal access to workers and let the workers decide for themselves whether or not they want to join a union. I do not know of any practicable way to accomplish this, but your BBQ idea would certainly be an improvement over the current state of things.

    PS Employers fix prices all the time. Look at the price of Coke and Pepsi, or Bud Light and Miller Lite, for some quick examples.

    Posted by garethhe at 03/16/2009 @ 11:59am

98. Look at the price of Coke and Pepsi, or Bud Light and Miller Lite, for some quick examples.

    Posted by garethhe at 03/16/2009 @ 11:59am

    Notice that you, us consumers, have a choice & surely, you know that Coke and Pepsi go `On Sale' on a regular, likely alternating basis....so we all buy at about half of `sticker' price.....instead of $4.99 per 12-pack, most people buy `On Sale' at 4 or 5 12-packs for $11 or $12.

    Do Labor Unions, say the UAW, ever put `On Sale' their wages just to help their employers sell more Saturns or Cobalts? Or is it more like pulling teeth and only until the patient is almost dead?

    Posted by Happy at 03/16/2009 @ 2:02pm

99. Yes, I do. I object to a system where employers have essentially unlimited access to "inform" workers......You do not see a problem with employers using time (and money) to politically indoctrinate/intimidate their workers?

    Posted by garethhe at 03/16/2009 @ 11:59am

    40 hours out of 168 weekly hours are hardly "unlimited".....and the employees get paid....that's plenty of incentives by employers to make their time efficient. Unions get the other 128 hours a week to work with!

    As a stockholder, I certainly approve of underwriting the lost productivity in the hope of convincing employees NOT to join unions. Just as employees are free to leave....I am free to bail (as a stockholder) if MY company won't be able to compete....which is exactly what I did decades ago with US Steel (my early tuition-paying days as a neophyte cyclical investor) when unions were killing it....and more recently when I actually made good money on GM...bought it when it was in the dumps and sold it soon after its union made big concessions as part of the Delphi spin-off (OK, that was a speculative play!) which unfortunately, did not reform its pension obligations, otherwise, I'd hung on for much larger gains; good thing, selling for over $30!

    Posted by Happy at 03/16/2009 @ 2:10pm

100. Happy: if you interested in increasing your knowledge on company collusion regarding fixing prices, look up the terms "sticky prices" and "oligopoly". These concepts describe very well the beer and soft drink industries in the U.S., as well as many other industries.

     But I would rather return attention to the real point in this discussion: workers in the United States are systematically denied their basic legal right to form unions of their choosing.

     Posted by garethhe at 03/16/2009 @ 2:18pm

101. The Rasmussen Reports (mis)quoted by comancheamerican stated that 9% of NONUNION employees wish to join a union. Rasmussen Reports also published a survey concluding that 55% of Americans had at least a somewhat favorable opinion of labor unions.

     I have on my shelf a book titled "What Workers Want," by Richard Freeman (economist, Harvard University) and Joel Rogers (Professor of Law, Political Science, and Sociology, University of Wisconsin-Madison), published in 1999 by Cornell University Press. This is a statistical analysis completed with scientific rigor, funded neither by unions nor companies. If anybody knows of a more reliable survey, please let me know. I'll quote you from pages 178-179:

     "We asked half of the sample if they wanted a union that 'negotiates or bargains' and the other half if they wanted an employee organization that 'negotiates or bargains'. Because 'employee organization that negotiates or bargains' with management over issues is essentially a union, this verbal distinction might seem silly. But one of our union advisors said that if we asked about 'unions,' we would be biasing responses against organizations that negotiated for workers. He cited AFL-CIO polls that showed that workers respond less favorably to "the U word" than to other nomenclature.

     23% chose a union as their preferred option. This is much greater than the 14% in our sample who currently belong to unions. But 31% chose an employee organization that negotiates with enmployers, a union in all but name."

     31% wanted an employee organization that negotiates with employers. 14% had an employee organization that negotiates with employers.

     Should not these numbers be roughly the same, since U.S. law expresses gives workers the legal right to form such groups?

     Posted by garethhe at 03/16/2009 @ 5:22pm

102. 40 hours out of 168 weekly hours are hardly "unlimited".Posted by Happy at 03/16/2009 @ 2:10pm

     40 hours with a captive audience. Let's see the average person sleeps 8 hours a day. There goes about 56 hours right there, leaving 72 hours. Then take into consideration the time (not compensated) an employee spends each day commuting to and from work, dressing and undressing for work or after work. personal hygiene necessary to wash off dirt from work. Laundry of clothing for work. Vehicle cost, maintenance and time involved to maintain transportation to work. There goes about another 15 hours a week. Bringing us to about 57 hours a week. Then subtract the fact that most people work way more than 40 hours a week in order to survive. So lets chuck another 10 hours or more a week. 47 hours now. And then factor in a personal life (if they have one) involving family and friends and that 40 hours with a captive audience starts looking pretty damn good.

     Posted by chaoszen at 03/16/2009 @ 6:02pm

103. When you look at it closely an "employee" is basically a slave that has to pay for his/her own rent, food and overall upkeep. Great deal for the slave owner. And on top of that the "slave" gets the illusion of freedom. What a coup!

     Posted by chaoszen at 03/16/2009 @ 6:11pm

104. Woohoo! Weez all sharecroppin' now!

     Posted by snowball666 at 03/16/2009 @ 6:18pm

     And to top it all off when we get sick or injured we get to pay outrageous prices to fix our broken bodies and go into debt or bankruptcy in order to have the priviledge of serving our masters once again. Who may at that point look at us as damaged goods and discard us at their whim.

     We are sooo lucky to live in a society that takes so much or it's time to figure out ways to screw us! If the masters of the universe did not care, why would they give up so much valuable time in order to insure our misery?

     And then to rightfully punish and deny us the opportunity to better ourselves by cutting us off at the knees when it comes to bargaining for our labor.

     You can readily see how our betters are looking out for our best interests!

     Give me another drink of that Koolaid. I'm losing my peak.

     Posted by chaoszen at 03/16/2009 @ 7:37pm

105. How do you think you retards manage to pad the bottom line and cover for your inadequacies quarter after quarter?

     Posted by snowball666 at 03/16/2009 @ 8:05pm

     (from the USPS thread) Happy's need to be a lazy jackoff, and capital markets for all the great stuff we pack into our holes to create fire hazards.

     Posted by snowball666 at 03/16/2009 @ 5:46pm

     I just noticed your tendencies of resorting to name-calling in our direct exchanges....of not more than a half dozen or dozen.....there won't be anymore if I see it again. You haven't earned my lasting attention!

     Posted by Happy at 03/16/2009 @ 9:30pm

106. Posted by snowball666 at 03/16/2009 @ 9:34pm

     HAPP is threatening to put you on ignore like he did me. If we all call HAPP some names maybe he will put us all on ignore and we won't have to listen to his crap anymore..

     Posted by chaoszen at 03/17/2009 @ 07:59am