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Of all Charmin's wiping-challenged bear ads, this one stands out. It's less the stray pieces of wet tissue that have somehow become stuck across two-feet of bear butt than the strategically placed football--did Charmin's superwholesome parent company Procter & Gamble really animate a poop?
For several post-Mr. Whipple years now, Charmin ads have been demonstrating ever more detailed aspects of swabbing one's privates. Does paper migrate from the anus? They have the spot above or this slightly less graphic one for you. Are you torn between your desire for an extra strong or an extra soft tissue? They offer this ad (coming out before the election, it not so subtly suggests that red-staters crave strong and blue-staters, well, you know, they're soft on everything).
If your overriding concern, however, is absorption, then this boast about the brand's "6,009 tiny absorb bubbles on each sheet" is the thing. For the demographic more grossed out by the bears' cuteness than their hygiene, Charmin has this tad hipper, Web-only spot in which an apparently Brooklyn-based bear auditions to be the brand's mascot by repeating the line, "Charmin Ultra Strong doesn't leave behind leave-behinds."
But actually, Charmin and other companies that cut down forests to make toilet paper produce leave-behinds much worse than hypothetical globs of lint: for instance, toxic chlorine-based bleach, used to turn tree pulp into a whiter white; and carbon dioxide, the main greenhouse gas that contributes to global warming--normally trees absorb CO2, of course, but, unlike the short fibers in recycled material, virgin trees have nice long fibers that can be made into the billowy soft paper to which we've become accustomed.
"This is a product that we use for less than three seconds and the ecological consequences of manufacturing it from trees is enormous," says Allen Hershkowitz, a senior scientist at the Natural Resources Defense Council. "Future generations are going to look at the way we make toilet paper as one of the greatest excesses of our age. Making toilet paper from virgin wood is a lot worse than driving Hummers in terms of global warming pollution."
Toilet-paper news was on a roll last week when Greenpeace issued an ecological guide to the best and worst toilet paper (based on the percentage of recycled content and use of nontoxic bleach), and the plusher flusher brands, Charmin and Cottonelle, were found seriously wanting. For the past few years, Greenpeace has been targeting Kimberly-Clark, producer of Cottonelle, Scott, and Kleenex, to go green. Cottonelle also uses an adorable animal, a puppy, to push its ultra velvety luxo softness in its "Be kind to your behind" campaign.
Producing TP out of recycled paper saves forests, reduces global warming, uses less water, and creates less waste, so why aren't we demanding that the major paper players do it? Some of us may mistakingly believe that toilet paper made of recycled paper (newspapers, etc.) is made of recycled toilet paper. Yikes! That would be gross (and impossible: how would it be retrieved?). Or we believe it's too rough. But the oldest maker of recycled paper in the country, Marcal, has already shown that green TP is quite comfy enough. It's expected to launch a national ad campaign for a still greener roll on Earth Day.
The prime reason Americans have been obsessed with softness, while Europeans and others are just fine with recycled (and use less paper in the first place) is that people in other countries haven't been subject to hundreds of millions of dollars worth of pulp fictions like Mr. Whipple and puppies and bears (oh my). Decades of such marketing has created a fetish for softness for our (increasingly soft) bottoms.
It's embarrassing that such ads, much less such products, are made in the name of our "consumer preferences"--especially in a time of worldwide economic and environmental crises. Forget adorable animals, the more apt mascots for Charmin and Cottonelle are those morbidly obese, infantilized folks in Wall-E (they appear below about one minute in). The film, which won the Oscar for best animated feature last month, doesn't mention how the bots service the wiping needs of the humans, but surely they do it with TP containing far more than 6,009 absorb bubbles in each sheet.
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important stuff, thanks for writing
Posted by darladoon at 03/02/2009 @ 12:22pm
Whats next...Tampons?
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 12:33pm
i have found plastic tampon applicators on practically every beach i have ever visited.
so, yes, john.
"and it is estimated that 5 million sea birds and 100,000 marine mammals die each year from swallowing the type of plastic contained in these products."
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 2:26pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 2:26pm
figured you would take the bait...
thanks for the laughs...
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 2:42pm
Why don't we just wipe our rears with the Constitution?
Oh, wait...Isn't that the ultimate goal of the "environmental movenment" anyway?
Posted by freiheit1 at 03/02/2009 @ 2:44pm
Why don't we just wipe our rears with the Constitution?
Oh, wait...Isn't that the ultimate goal of the "environmental movenment" anyway?
Posted by freiheit1 at 03/02/2009 @ 2:44pm
The last budget did that....and the paper it is printed on is a threat to the enviroment in many ways.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 2:53pm
Anne Coulter books serve my ass-wipin' needs perfectly.
Posted by MATTMAN at 03/02/2009 @ 3:01pm
I'm looking forward to Leslie Savan's upcoming expose on the environmental impact of abortions in the US. The environmentally harmful disposal of millions of plastic bags annually and the horrible waste of precious fresh water to clean up the mess in the clinics nation-wide. It is really a global problem when you think of it...
But that expose will never be written. I wonder why not?
Just kidding. I don't wonder why not.
Posted by freiheit1 at 03/02/2009 @ 3:04pm
Posted by MATTMAN at 03/02/2009 @ 3:01pm
Well, at least her writing is connecting directly to your brain that way!
Posted by freiheit1 at 03/02/2009 @ 3:06pm
Posted by freiheit1 at 03/02/2009 @ 3:06pm
Well played Frei, well played.
Posted by MATTMAN at 03/02/2009 @ 3:16pm
i have found plastic tampon applicators on practically every beach i have ever visited.
so, yes, john.
"and it is estimated that 5 million sea birds and 100,000 marine mammals die each year from swallowing the type of plastic contained in these products."
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 2:26pm
I don't know what kind of beaches you visit Frosty, but they are unlike any I have ever been to.
Posted by antisocialist at 03/02/2009 @ 3:18pm
Mattman, nice of you to say, but I felt it was a bit of a cheap shot and regretted it immediately.
Just curious, have you ever sat down and read any of Ann Coulter's books?
Posted by freiheit1 at 03/02/2009 @ 3:19pm
May begins "Disenfranchised Moldavian Female Workers History Month"
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 03/02/2009 @ 3:21pm
Mattman, nice of you to say, but I felt it was a bit of a cheap shot and regretted it immediately.
Just curious, have you ever sat down and read any of Ann Coulter's books?
Posted by freiheit1 at 03/02/2009 @ 3:19pm
It's okay. I'm asking for it by setting out that type of "bait".
I can't say I've read anything cover to cover, no, but I've flipped through a couple in the bookshops, parousing the chapters. I've seen her in enough interviews on TV to know that I completely disagree with her perspectives on pretty much everything though.
Posted by MATTMAN at 03/02/2009 @ 3:24pm
Mattman, thanks for the candid answer. Fair enough.
To fully understand your feelings about Coulter, I just have to think about my own regarding Nancy Pelosi. :-)
Posted by freiheit1 at 03/02/2009 @ 3:33pm
Using virgin, old-growth forests to make toilet paper is immensely wasteful and STUPID!
Is anybody surprised that John is jumping in to defend it?
Posted by Lillian at 03/02/2009 @ 3:36pm
How 'bout a nude jello wrestling match between Pelosi and Coulter.
EEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 03/02/2009 @ 3:37pm
Jello wrestling? No, but between those two, I'd pay to watch them battle it out in paintball.
It would not end well for Nancy.
Posted by freiheit1 at 03/02/2009 @ 3:46pm
Posted by Lillian at 03/02/2009 @ 3:36pm
Are you suggesting that old growth forest should not be harvested at all, Lillian, or are you suggesting if they are, it should be for high-end furniture, flooring, or art instead of toilet paper? You know, more 'dignified' uses.
Posted by freiheit1 at 03/02/2009 @ 3:50pm
Using virgin, old-growth forests to make toilet paper is immensely wasteful and STUPID!
Is anybody surprised that John is jumping in to defend it?
Posted by Lillian at 03/02/2009 @ 3:36pm
we don't have to use trees for TP, LIL ...Obama and the DEMS(progressives) are turning our currency into toilet paper...and at the rate they are spending and printing, we might be able to use it to heat our homes...
Problem with trees solved.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 3:56pm
I don't know what kind of beaches you visit Frosty, but they are unlike any I have ever been to.
Posted by antisocialist at 03/02/2009 @ 3:18pm
He lives in Winsor, CA...which is Detroit...imagine the fine beaches..
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 3:57pm
Oh, wait...Isn't that the ultimate goal of the "environmental movenment" anyway?
Posted by freiheit1 at 03/02/2009 @ 2:44pm
wtf?
i thought it was to keep my child from being filled with heavy metals.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 4:08pm
figured you would take the bait... thanks for the laughs...
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 2:42pm
i figured i'd just put some sand in the gears of your dream world.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 4:09pm
figured you would take the bait... thanks for the laughs...
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 2:42pm
i figured i'd just put some sand in the gears of your dream world.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 4:11pm
Toilet talk, huh?
Here' s mine.....the Wilshire 5000 went further in the toilet by 4.8%....and the small cap Russell 2000, fitting even nicer into the `throat' of the toilet, dived by 5.5%.....
At this point, I have to add into the realm of possibilities, that Team Magic is in fact, some sort of Manchurian Regime out to destroy our country.
Who knows, at this rate, we just might have us another Great Depression......HOPE AND CHANGE!
Posted by Happy at 03/02/2009 @ 4:15pm
on the environmental impact of abortions in the US.
Posted by freiheit1 at 03/02/2009 @ 3:04pm
quite odd, frei.
i expect such drivel from captain crass, mr. maasch, but from thee...
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 4:18pm
Posted by Happy at 03/02/2009 @ 4:15pm
And of course, it's all Obama and the democrats' fault. If only they'd cut taxes and start another war...
Posted by MATTMAN at 03/02/2009 @ 4:22pm
I don't know what kind of beaches you visit Frosty, but they are unlike any I have ever been to.
Posted by antisocialist at 03/02/2009 @ 3:18p
larry,
i have been to beaches far, far from "humanity".
and they ALL are covered with plastic.
don't you realize they comb the beaches every morning for the tourists:
Plastic blights Hawaii's beaches
By Matt Wells
BBC News, Hawaii
Hawaiian beaches have a reputation for their beauty From even a short distance away, the beaches of Hawaii are everything you imagine them to be: crested turquoise waves crashing down onto pristine, golden shores. In the resort areas of Oahu, and on the crowded sands of Waikiki - near the state capital of Honolulu, you can stretch out a towel and run your toes through the fine, sun-baked sand to your heart's content.
But try that on a more remote beach just a few kilometres to the east, and chances are you will be in for a nasty shock. Small, sea-worn pieces of plastic lie everywhere on the sand's surface, and buried just below it.
"I'm from Australia, and I thought Hawaii was this unspoilt, beautiful paradise. I was just totally shocked when I saw all this trash everywhere," says Suzanne Frazer, who is one half of the locally-based duo who recently founded Beach - short for Beach Environmental Awareness Campaign, Hawaii.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 4:24pm
UK beaches 'blighted by plastic'
Jon Kay spoke to Emma Snowden of the Marine Conservation Society Britain's beaches are being blighted by more plastic rubbish than ever before, a new survey has found. The Marine Conservation Society's Beachwatch survey used 4,000 volunteers to look for rubbish on more than 350 beaches across the UK last September. The results show more than 300,000 items of litter were collected. Plastic litter accounted for more than 50% of the rubbish found, and had increased more than 120% since the survey started in 1994. Plastic items included bags, bottles and plastic-based cigarette butts. 'Shocking' Emma Snowden, Litter Projects Coordinator at the Marine Conservation Society (MCS), said: "Plastics are of particular concern as they could persist in the marine environment for centuries, with fatal consequences for marine wildlife.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 4:25pm
State panel targets plastic trash at beaches
By Kenneth R. Weiss, LA Times Staff Writer February 9, 2007
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 4:29pm
(Pulitzer Prize winner) Paul Krugman: Stimulus Too Small, Second Package Likely:
The $787 billion stimulus is not nearly enough to fill the "well over $2 trillion hole" in the economy, Krugman said. "A fair bit of the bill is not really stimulus," he adding, noting that just about $650 billion would actually spur consumer spending and other types of stimulus.
I suspect this guy really doesn't know what he's talking about. You know, they hand those Pulitzer Prizes out to anybody these days.
Posted by MATTMAN at 03/02/2009 @ 4:33pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 4:18pm
Simply airing some of my frustration with the so-called environmental movement. I do believe in the sincerity of the rank and file, but a long look at its roots and direction, the leadership is all about power.
"The fact that corporate interests dominate government agencies that regulate them is not new. This has been going on for decades. Furthermore, multinational corporations and their cartels have always been the largest source of funding for the environmental movement. Without corporate funding and grants from tax-exempt foundations that the corporations control, the environmental movement as we know it wouldn't even exist. Their game plan is brilliant: Use environmentalism as an excuse for expanding government power in all aspects of life; strengthen their already substantial control over every level of government; make sure that they themselves are exempt from any unmanageable restrictions on their ability to operate at a profit; use those same restrictions to destroy competition from any business venture outside the cartel; and create a world-wide corporate state, based on the model of collectivism, which they fondly describe as The New World Order. Once you understand this game plan, the thrust for global power under the banner of environmentalism becomes painfully clear." -- G Edward Griffin
Posted by freiheit1 at 03/02/2009 @ 4:34pm
Are you suggesting that old growth forest should not be harvested at all, Lillian, or are you suggesting if they are, it should be for high-end furniture, flooring, or art instead of toilet paper? You know, more 'dignified' uses.
Posted by freiheit1 at 03/02/2009 @ 3:50pm
toilet paper is made from tree farm trees.
buy recycled paper.
there are so few old growth forests left that every effort should be made to preserve them.
don't buy paper from china.
forests can be managed well, providing wood for human uses as well as being fair to the other inhabitants of this planet.
i believe if our money were TREE BASED (not gold, ¿who needs that?)
we'd be MUCH richer.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 4:35pm
Obama and the DEMS(progressives) are turning our currency into toilet paper...and at the rate they are spending and printing, we might be able to use it to heat our homes... Problem with trees solved.
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 3:56pm
john,
our money has been debt based for quite a while.
mr. obama inherited quite a mess.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 4:36pm
Posted by MATTMAN at 03/02/2009 @ 4:33pm
You'd enjoy reading Coulter's take on Krugman...
Posted by freiheit1 at 03/02/2009 @ 4:36pm
He lives in Winsor, CA...
Posted by YourJomamma at 03/02/2009 @ 3:57pm
Point Pelee was made a national park in 1918 at the urging of birders and hunters. Commercial fishing continued in the park until 1969. Point Pelee was the only Canadian national park to allow hunting until duck hunting was ended in 1989. This site was named "Pointe-Pelée" or "bare point" by French explorers because the eastern side was rocky and had no trees. It forms the southernmost point in mainland Canada (its latitudinal position is the same as the northernmost counties of California) and is part of a bird and butterfly migration corridor over Lake Erie via Point Pelee and the Lake Erie islands. Over 360 bird species have been recorded in the park. The peak time for bird migration is spring, especially May, when tired migrants make first landfall after their journey north across the lake. Many birdwatchers from North America and abroad visit the park in spring, often staying in the nearby town of Leamington. One attraction, apart from the sheer numbers and variety of bird passing through on migration, is the opportunity to see more northerly breeding species such as Blackpoll Warbler before they move on. In March 2006 high winds washed away the sand point and all that remained was a platform.[1] In October 2007 the level of lake Erie dropped enough to reveal the point again extending at least half a mile out into the water and at least 25 feet (7.6 m) wide with a beautiful winding curving shape to it and covered with sand and round rocks of all shapes and colours.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 4:38pm
Long Point is an outstanding example of sand dune and sand-spit formation in the Great Lakes region. In 1982, Long Point National Wildlife Area was recognized as a wetland of international significance under the Ramsar Convention. It was designated as a World Biosphere Reserve by UNESCO in 1986. The Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources classifies Long Point as a Macrosite, an area which contains numerous ecological or geological provincially-significant zones,[1] such as Areas of Natural and Scientific Interest. Long Point is the location of an Ontario provincial park, Long Point Provincial Park, a popular warm weather destination for day visitors and campers.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 4:40pm
Who knows, at this rate, we just might have us another Great Depression......HOPE AND CHANGE!
Posted by Happy at 03/02/2009 @ 4:15pm
mr. obama inherited quite a mess.
was it mr. obama who allowed the overleveraging of air?
imagine how things would be going with the
MCCAIN PALIN GRAMM triumvirate.
imagine.......
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 4:43pm
Posted by freiheit1 at 03/02/2009 @ 4:36pm
I'm sure. They don't just hand out the internationally recognized and highly esteemed "Ann Coulter Awards" either ya know!
Posted by MATTMAN at 03/02/2009 @ 4:45pm
I suspect this guy really doesn't know what he's talking about. You know, they hand those Pulitzer Prizes out to anybody these days.
Posted by MATTMAN at 03/02/2009 @ 4:33pm
He got the prize....after being right on just one recession, the present one, after calling for two every year since lord knows when.....
But note, even he confesses your Messiah's Pork Bill, is non-stimulative...""A fair bit of the bill is not really stimulus,"....
Posted by Happy at 03/02/2009 @ 4:47pm
Posted by freiheit1 at 03/02/2009 @ 4:36pm
Coulter isn't concerned about old growth. In fact she isn't concerned about tp either. Seems that she uses a cork..& every time she releases a new book...tsunami!
Posted by Sorelish at 03/02/2009 @ 4:48pm
Once you understand this game plan, the thrust for global power under the banner of environmentalism becomes painfully clear." -- G Edward Griffin
Posted by freiheit1 at 03/02/2009 @ 4:34pm
i believe mr. griffin misses the mark here.
i mean, which people?
¿sierra club, wwf, greepeace?
sure they get money from corporations, but they are the last people we need to worry about.
what, you think the rainbow copters are coming for you?
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 4:49pm
If only they'd cut taxes and start another war...
Posted by MATTMAN at 03/02/2009 @ 4:22pm
move over, geithner!
MATTMAN has the answers!
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 4:50pm
Speaking of prizes, didn't a couple of guys, an Israeli and an Egyptian, who's last names have the initials BS, got some Swedish award for peace in the ME?
I do agree, prizes are nice....makes some folks feel all warm and fuzzy!
Posted by Happy at 03/02/2009 @ 4:50pm
May begins "Disenfranchised Moldavian Female Workers History Month"
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 03/02/2009 @ 3:21pm
it's about frikkin' time!
"Prostitution in Moldova is currently illegal, but because it is Europe's poorest country it is a major exporter of human trafficking of women for the purposes of the sex trade."
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 4:51pm
LESILIE SAVAN IS CAMPAIGNING FOR THE RETURN OF OUTHOUSES AND CORNCOBS!??? (in n.central and northern climes)
Just darn! All we have is wheat and oat straw! Now some of that range grass is okay if you're really careful. And to think our neighbor Texas have all those pricklypears going to waste, poor guys.
When you go to the grocery be sure to ask for PAPER only bags! Good luck!
Posted by comancheamerican at 03/02/2009 @ 4:55pm
If only they'd cut taxes and start another war...
Posted by MATTMAN at 03/02/2009 @ 4:22pm
There is no doubt in my mind on the first....a serious supply-side type tax cuts sometime in the next 6~9 months, such as suspension of all FICA taxes from employees AND employers!
The war part is more iffy, not entirely Magic's call.....events may unfold where he chooses NOT to partake. On the other hand, shouldn't the Afghan War be considered to have been ReSet for a new start? Seems to be, 17,000 more, and perhaps more on top of that, on a base of 30,000 troops for 8 years, ought to constitute something other than status quo!
Posted by Happy at 03/02/2009 @ 4:57pm
Posted by Happy at 03/02/2009 @ 4:57pm
There is no doubt in my mind on the first....a serious supply-side type tax cuts sometime in the next 6~9 months, such as suspension of all FICA taxes from employees AND employers!
I'm sure you've answered this before- I seem to have missed it, but didn't Bush and Hoover both impose "serious supply-side" measures?
And the follow up: wasn't it the demand created by the New Deal and the economic activity generated by WWII that lifted us from the depression (after 1st creating a massive debt)?
Posted by MATTMAN at 03/02/2009 @ 5:07pm
Posted by MATTMAN at 03/02/2009 @ 5:07pm
You know the answer...Bush did with his tax cuts that favored capital in `01 & `03. Hoover made the wrong moves and did nothing after the stocks crashed...and stocks are now crashing.
I don't buy the `demand' created by the New Deal but WWII was a real stimulus, as is all wars.
The Repubs have no problem for debt-financed real stimulus, but for once, I agree w/Pulitzer Krug. Your Messiah is on the cusp of giving us a fair replay of the GD.....
Obama is dangerous, the only question is if what he's unleashing, warring against capital, as laid out by Kudlow, is willful and traitorous.
Posted by Happy at 03/02/2009 @ 5:20pm
The war part is more iffy, not entirely Magic's call.....events may unfold where he chooses NOT to partake. On the other hand, shouldn't the Afghan War be considered to have been ReSet for a new start? Seems to be, 17,000 more, and perhaps more on top of that, on a base of 30,000 troops for 8 years, ought to constitute something other than status quo!
Posted by Happy at 03/02/2009 @ 4:57pm
Escallation, "surge", Operation ReSet...I guess however you phrase it the republicans have at least something to feel good about in these days of being "left out".
Posted by MATTMAN at 03/02/2009 @ 5:22pm
"...and traitorous."
Posted by Happy at 03/02/2009 @ 5:20pm
And you never struck me before as one of those paranoids like some of your cohorts on these pages.
So are the 67% of Americans who support him and his direction traitorous as well?
Posted by MATTMAN at 03/02/2009 @ 5:28pm
"Obama is dangerous, the only question is if what he's unleashing, warring against capital, as laid out by Kudlow, is willful and traitorous."
~Happy the Clown at 5:20pm
So, the "candy-colored clown" worships at the altar of Larry Kud-chew?
I'm shocked......SHOCKED.
Your breathlessness is breathtaking.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 03/02/2009 @ 5:31pm
Don't squeeze the charmin squeeze blackcoptermedia.com, Clear cut everything!
Posted by thesid at 03/02/2009 @ 5:37pm
You know the answer...Bush did with his tax cuts that favored capital in `01 & `03. Hoover made the wrong moves and did nothing after the stocks crashed...and stocks are now crashing.
I don't buy the `demand' created by the New Deal but WWII was a real stimulus, as is all wars.
Posted by Happy at 03/02/2009 @ 5:20pm
New York Times- Income Gap Is Widening, Data Shows DAVID CAY JOHNSTON March 29, 2007 Income inequality grew significantly in 2005, with the top 1 percent of Americans -- those with incomes that year of more than $348,000 -- receiving their largest share of national income since 1928"
I suppose this is insignificant though, right?
As for the New Deal and WWII-- both were incidents of massive governmental spending that created economic activity, ie demand, and jobs. Whether spending on infrastrucure or bomb production, the economic ends were congruent.
Posted by MATTMAN at 03/02/2009 @ 5:38pm
"And you never struck me before as one of those paranoids like some of your cohorts on these pages."
~Mattman
Don't let 'im fool ya, Mattman, "Happy" is one delusional and deeply disturbed puppy.
He has waxed longlingly on these threads about having "missed out" on Vietnam --barely-- due to his age (too young). I personally find "Happy" and his typically smug, self-satisfied demeanor offputting to the extreme.
Trust me, he's one of the biggest putzes on this board.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 03/02/2009 @ 5:38pm
From wiki.....
"In 1987 (Larry) Kudlow was hired by Bear, Stearns & Company as their chief economist and senior managing director. He was fired in 1994 after his out-of-control drug use resulted in him missing an important client presentation."
Somehow, I'm just not at all surprised.
"BLOW"hards of the world UNITE!!!
Posted by b_kool_66 at 03/02/2009 @ 5:48pm
One more for the road......
And Larry Kudlow's current wife (number three) is Judith Pond....which I suppose bequeaths her the new name, Judith Pond-Scum.
Ba-dump-bump.......
Posted by b_kool_66 at 03/02/2009 @ 5:55pm
Posted by b_kool_66 at 03/02/2009 @ 5:38pm
Oh well I was aware of the smug, self-satisfied narcissistic traits; the paranoia itself was new, that's all.
Posted by MATTMAN at 03/02/2009 @ 5:55pm
"Oh well I was aware of the smug, self-satisfied narcissistic traits; the paranoia itself was new, that's all."
~Mattman
He has me on permanent ignore. For the life of me, I have no idea why.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 03/02/2009 @ 6:00pm
Since we're (kind of) on the topic of economics, here's four minutes of sublime entertainment from one of my favorite websites, Tom Feeley's fantastic Information Clearinghouse:
informationclearinghouse.info/article22131.htm
"....all necessities provided...all anxieties tranquilized...all boredom, amused...."
Sure enough, welcome to utopia. We're almost there, people.
Just trust Big Banker.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 03/02/2009 @ 6:21pm
Gotta get home B, I'll be back tomorrow if the workload permits!
Posted by MATTMAN at 03/02/2009 @ 6:31pm
The Dow Jones industrial average slid 299.64 points, or 4.24 percent, to 6,763.29. The Standard & Poor's 500 Index fell 34.27 points, or 4.66 percent, to 700.82. The Nasdaq Composite Index shed 54.99 points, or 3.99 percent, to 1,322.85.
All of the Dow's 30 components ended in the red, while all 10 of the S&P's sectors also were negative.
GOOD JOB OBAMANATION AND UNDEMOCRAT CONGRESS OF SUCCESSFULLY DESTROYING THE ECONOMIC COMMERCE OF THE U.S.A. IN LESS THAN 3 MONTHS!
I nominate them all for the nobel peace prize- sure winners one and all!
Posted by comancheamerican at 03/02/2009 @ 7:22pm
So are the 67% of Americans who support him and his direction traitorous as well?
Posted by MATTMAN at 03/02/2009 @ 5:28pm
You know my comeback is real easy!
Your line of "support the troops but not their mission" is exactly my line today......as Rush has painstakingly explained.....WE SUPPORT OBAMA but not his policies!
So far, with stocks down more than an (!unimaginable) 35% in just 4 months (since Nov. 4), and more than half since he won the nomination, unemployment accelerating, pension funds cratering, tax revenues collapsing,....the shit is finally hitting the fan!
Just as Magic is seeking to reorder the US economy, the business sector will react....and worker bees will pay in hardship while capitalists will pay will lower wealth.....everybody lose!
We'll begin to see large numbers of mergers of necessity as one definitive way to deal with gross overcapacity and dramatically diminished expectations. Overly weak players won't be merged, they will die, like many newspapers with NO buyers or merger partners.
HOPE AND CHANGE!
Posted by Happy at 03/02/2009 @ 7:23pm
Even though this article is about making toilet paper out of old growth trees , it quickly fluctuated to the rant of the moment, which is:
How come Obama is doing all this bad stuff?
Answer: George Bush made him do it.
The RW response: Who is George Bush? Does he know Anne Coulter? She's so HOT!
I mean, a Palin/Coulter mud wrestling contest... THAT would bring out the color in Rush Limbaughs face.
I guess this means that they don't want to talk about the trees.
Posted by ficheye at 03/02/2009 @ 8:30pm
I guess this means that they don't want to talk about the trees.
Posted by ficheye at 03/02/2009 @ 8:30pm | ignore this person | warn this person
.
Actually, none of them gives a **crap** about the trees.
Obviously.
;-)
Posted by Lillian at 03/02/2009 @ 9:18pm
GOOD JOB OBAMANATION AND UNDEMOCRAT CONGRESS OF SUCCESSFULLY DESTROYING THE ECONOMIC COMMERCE OF THE U.S.A. IN LESS THAN 3 MONTHS!
Posted by comancheamerican at 03/02/2009 @ 7:22pm
rio,
that is so amazingly stupid even you don't believe it.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 9:43pm
trees?
they're only good for toilet paper.
END THE FIAT FRENZY!
INSTITUTE TREE-BACKED CURRENCY!
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 9:45pm
BUSH GETS HIS REVENGE:
Yale will fire up to 300 staff
By Isaac Arnsdorf and Victor Zapana Staff Reporter, Staff Reporter
New projections on staff attrition indicate that as many as 300 employees could be laid off as Yale copes with the economic downturn, though administrators said today that the University will double severance benefits for those who lose their jobs in the next six months.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2009 @ 9:46pm
Posted by freiheit1 at 03/02/2009 @ 4:34pm
FREI, just curious....if you don't want ChemCo dumping dioxin in your river...or don't want to see TimberCo get the right to level Yellowstone...
what "non-power grabbing" method or organization do you suggest?
Posted by Mask at 03/02/2009 @ 11:19pm
Forests fall en masse and pulp mills pollute the air, water and land so that America can wipe it's ass with nice soft absorbent crap smearing paper. Wonderful.
America has apparently not yet discovered the "Bidet." You know, that "other" plumbing fixture that is intended to wash the genitals, buttocks and anus. It is considered unhygienic by a much of the world to use paper to smear feces all over your backside with a wad of paper. Even in the most austere of circumstances a container of water and the hand are all that is needed to properly sanitize your equipment.
But we remain quite uncivilized in this area, and the result as usual is environmental disaster.
Posted by chaoszen at 03/02/2009 @ 11:23pm
It is easier to find a school teacher NOT having sex with their students than an Obamanation nominee actually PAYING thier income taxes!!!!
Another Obama administration nominee has tax troubles. This time, it's Ron Kirk, the president's choice to be U.S. trade representative.
Kirk owes an estimated $10,000 in back taxes from earlier in the decade and has agreed to pay them, the Senate Finance Committee said Monday. The committee said the taxes arise from Kirk's handling of speaking fees he donated to a scholarship fund that he set up at his alma mater, and for his deduction of the full cost of season tickets to the Dallas Mavericks professional basketball team.
Kirk also agreed to make changes in his accounting of charitable deductions, including reducing the claimed value of a donated television from $3,000 to $1,500.
The former Dallas mayor is the fourth nominee by President Barack Obama to run into tax problems.
Posted by comancheamerican at 03/02/2009 @ 11:23pm
More change for you and less hope to believe in!
Posted by comancheamerican at 03/02/2009 @ 11:24pm
While we are on the topic of radical proposals, here's one. Why not completely dispense with toilet paper altogether?
Wiping your rear can be accomplished quite satisfactorily using your hand, which you then rinse off and wash. There is no need for toilet paper at all - as the vast majority of Indians (and people from other cultures) prove every day.
Toilet paper is an environmental nightmare no matter how it is produced or how it is used. Maybe it is time to reconsider this practice - along with our cars, the suburban coopting of farmland that are car centered lifestyles enable, and the shipping of our manufacturing base to foreign countries during the onset of peak oil.
Posted by srjenkins at 03/02/2009 @ 11:33pm
We need an ad campaign with the mantra. "Wash it! Don't wipe it!" Think of all the manufacturing jobs and plumber apprenticeships that would be created as we retrofitted America with the latest backside cleansing technology. Not to mention the positive impact on our forests, air and water quality.
Posted by chaoszen at 03/02/2009 @ 11:34pm
It's the simple things, like how we clean our ass that can change the world..
Posted by chaoszen at 03/02/2009 @ 11:40pm
Posted by chaoszen at 03/02/2009 @ 11:23pm
When I started writing, Mask was the last post. Looks like you and I were on exactly the same page at the same time.
Posted by srjenkins at 03/02/2009 @ 11:48pm
Are you suggesting that old growth forest should not be harvested at all, Lillian...
Posted by freiheit1 at 03/02/2009 @ 3:50pm | ignore this person | warn this person
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Oh sure Frei...exactly right. why, as everyone can plainly see, those are the only 2 possible ways to go. No stupid, lame-ass false dichotomy there - no, no.
.
I know - let's follow the wing-nut, neo-con, Marie Antoinette, couldn't-care-less-about-anything approach and use...
...ENDANGERED SPECIES to wipe our butts!
Posted by Lillian at 03/02/2009 @ 11:49pm
For those who are squeamish about having any skin in the game when it comes to ass to hand contact someone could devise a product similar to "ShamWow" that might be called "ButtWow" or "AsswWow" that would be reuseable and easily sanitized for re-use. It could even have your personal monogram so that there would be no confusion as to whose "AssWow" was whose.. Unlimited potential here..
Posted by chaoszen at 03/02/2009 @ 11:59pm
...ENDANGERED SPECIES to wipe our butts!
Posted by Lillian at 03/02/2009 @ 11:49pm
Exactly! We may aswell be using a panicked Spotted Owl to wipe our Ass!
Posted by chaoszen at 03/03/2009 @ 12:11am
Posted by srjenkins at 03/02/2009 @ 11:48pm
Well, it's nice to know there is someone on the same page. I think in the margins most of the time and often feel like the Lone Stranger.
Posted by chaoszen at 03/03/2009 @ 12:28am
It is easier to find a school teacher NOT having sex with their students than an Obamanation nominee actually PAYING thier income taxes!!!! Posted by comancheamerican at 03/02/2009 @ 11:23pm
When I read your posts and make an attempt to get into your head, I always feel dirty and the need to take a shower.
What in the hell does a school teacher having sex with a student have to do with an Obama nominee having tax problems? You are one sick puppy. Diseased minds seem to go part and parcel with wingnut ideology.. Yuck.
Posted by chaoszen at 03/03/2009 @ 12:39am
Probably spoils the argument a bit but about 95% of CO2 expelled to the atmosphere is taken up by the worlds oceans, which leaves about 5% for herbage and trees to "absorb". Then of course paper recycling is not without its costs in terms of greenhouse gases produced by the fossil fuels used in the process.
The recent forest fires in Victoria, Australia devastated large swathes of old growth forests. It has been estimated that these wild fires, that lasted just several days, produced more greenhouse gases, including CO2, than one whole year's coal fired power generation for the entire nation produces.
The horrific human suffering and death and the generational destruction of that environment, has caused many who lived in these once idyllic places, with a philosophy of living in harmony with nature, to question the wisdom of that assumption.
The biblical command to have dominion over and subdue the earth, though not expressed in that formula, is having more resonance amongst those who have until now been seduced by an unwarranted embrace of something like James Lovelock's Gaia Hypothesis. In some form or other that undergirds all the modern environmental movements.
Sadly it is out of touch with an earth that is inhospitable to humans. That is not grasped by those who simply don't how much we need human science and its technologies and a willingness to keep shaping the earth to human needs.
That includes energy production to keep us from freezing to death or dying of heat exhaustion.
Then there is the technological subduing of all those illnesses caused by a massive array of naturally occurring viruses and bacteria, that used to cut short human lives.
(Mundanely it extends to clearing old growth vegetation from around our dwellings in fire prone places).
Posted by lrjones4 at 03/03/2009 @ 12:46am
Sadly it is out of touch with an earth that is inhospitable to humans. That is not grasped by those who simply don't how much we need human science and its technologies and a willingness to keep shaping the earth to human needs. Posted by lrjones4 at 03/03/2009 @ 12:46am
Instead of "shaping the earth to human needs", why not try shaping human needs to conform with the needs of the earth? That is a much more realistic approach. We are after all marooned on and dependent on the health of a planet. Look at it like a life boat floating in the sea of the universe. There are only so many resources available to support life. The planet "Gaia" is itself a living and breathing entity. We are just riders on a vehicle which travels in space.
If we don't work to maintain the functions of that which gave us life, the host will die. If the host dies, we die. The purpose of this life is to teach us how to care and nourish the bounty we were given. But we plunder instead. Stupid humans..
Posted by chaoszen at 03/03/2009 @ 01:16am
There are only so many resources available to support life. The planet "Gaia" is itself a living and breathing entity. We are just riders on a vehicle which travels in space.
If we don't work to maintain the functions of that which gave us life, the host will die. If the host dies, we die. The purpose of this life is to teach us how to care and nourish the bounty we were given. But we plunder instead. Stupid humans..
Posted by chaoszen at 03/03/2009 @ 01:16am
That is a nice little sermon but lacks a certain necessary logic. If in fact it is a "living, breathing" entity that gave us life, then it should be able to maintain itself without any help from us (humans).
The reality is closer to your first proposition viz an (inanimate) vehicle.
On this vehicle are all sorts of life forms that are at the mercy of this capricious earth. The extinction of countless numbers of species over the millions if not billions of years since they appeared is testimony to that reality.
So far from there being a dependent and supposedly necessary relatedness of all things, to maintain the integrity of a "living, breathing" earth, they have and are being shed by this ancient vehicle with wild abandon, as she continues on her way through space, without as much as a blink.
The earth doesn't need humans either for its existence and has all sorts of little nasties like fire, flood, pestilence and famine to finish us off also. And that is the obvious and logical reason why the only thinking, rational species on this vehicle needs to mould the earth to its needs to guarantee its own future as a species. This it has done with progressively increasing sophistication since it got on board.
Posted by lrjones4 at 03/03/2009 @ 02:11am
And that is the obvious and logical reason why the only thinking, rational species on this vehicle needs to mould the earth to its needs to guarantee its own future as a species. Posted by lrjones4 at 03/03/2009 @ 02:11am
So you look at the relationship between mother and child as being antagonistic and competitive in nature? Did you have an overbearing and dominate human mother? Perhaps you didn't feel properly nutured and cared for as a child? In any case the Earth mother does not seek to dominate and compete with it's children. It seeks to teach balance and union.
Nature plays no favorites and does at times seem to be a harsh mistress. But without providing a challenging arena for growth and adaptation she would spoil her offspring. There is no malice in the Earth, only a desire to fulfill her mission to teach us in no uncertain terms the value of compromise and balance.
It is up to us to decide our fate. We are in school here. The Earth only provides a backdrop for our education. You will see that when you die. Only then will the amnesia that is necessary for learning in life lift and you will see the true nature of your soul and the many lives you have lived.
I really should stop at that. Too much information.
Posted by chaoszen at 03/03/2009 @ 03:09am
I really should stop at that. Too much information. Posted by chaoszen at 03/03/2009 @ 03:09am
Right on. We need to work with the earth, not conquer it. That's lame.
Posted by ficheye at 03/03/2009 @ 03:27am
Sadly it is out of touch with an earth that is inhospitable to humans. That is not grasped by those who simply don't how much we need human science and its technologies and a willingness to keep shaping the earth to human needs.
Posted by lrjones4 at 03/03/2009 @ 12:46am
There are so many species that we have killed and landscapes ruined with our conquering of nature and adventurism that it's ridiculous.
I can see that you are being objective in your own way and I can appreciate that.
I just feel that you are wrong.
You don't have to be a tree hugger to see that living in balance with the planet instead of subduing it is the better way to go. And the forest fire/global warming parallel is quite a stretch. It's like saying "Since there are fires, then, existentially, it's OK to burn lots of stuff since it happens in nature". No. It's up to us to minimize that influence, especially considering our massive population. You don't pave paradise and put up a parking lot.
Posted by ficheye at 03/03/2009 @ 03:35am
Posted by chaoszen at 03/03/2009 @ 03:09am
CH the most charitable thing that I can is that that is mostly drivel.
The earth is not your mother or mine. Your analogy is childish in the extreme. The only reason you can think in such a naive way is because you are either ignorant of the earth's long history as well as that of our species or you have a disconnect between that secular history and normal deductive and inductive thought processes.
If my memory serves me correctly your pre suppositions are essentially Buddhist, which would go a long way to explaining why you have this pre-scientific view of reality. That is your prerogative but it is not a common view amongst the scientific community. Most consider Lovelock's Gaia earth as unscientific and contrary to the evidence (Dawkins, Gould et al).
That many environmentalists readily embrace it gives credence to the broader charge that much environmentalism (eg as a ground of ecology and of bio-diversity) belongs to a quasi religio/philosophical rather than a scientific genre.
Posted by lrjones4 at 03/03/2009 @ 03:44am
Posted by lrjones4 at 03/03/2009 @ 03:44am
You are correct in your assumption that my philosophical leanings fall into the category of a certain fascination with Buddhist teachings. I am however an Atheist. I don't find any contradiction there as the Buddha said when asked if he was God, replied that, No, the only difference between you and I is that I am awake and you are asleep. The Buddha expressed the opinion that God, if there was one was unknowable and therefore of no great concern.
This does not mean that I don't understand or have no interest in scientific principles. I can talk science all day long. I don't really understand how you can have the opinion that science somehow validates your obvious position that mankind should take a position of opposition to the planet that gave us life. You seem to look at your role in life as a mission to dominate and subdue a wild and out of control planet to suit your selfish needs. That is a purely pathological world view.
Science does not support that conclusion, unless you have a twisted view of Darwinism. Darwin always spoke of morality and compassion. Maybe you should revaluate your position.
Posted by chaoszen at 03/03/2009 @ 04:30am
Recycled moon tape...
There will always be an urban legend that goes..."Hey, that toilet paper from recycled paper was already used...etc"
It's just too perfect for that sort of stupidity.
They'll have to advertise and make it a point exactly what it is.
Posted by koroviev at 03/03/2009 @ 06:39am
"Science does not support that conclusion, unless you have a twisted view of Darwinism. Darwin always spoke of morality and compassion. Maybe you should revaluate your position."
Posted by chaoszen at 03/03/2009 @ 04:30am
Again Ch you are merely digressing whilst embracing an imaginary, pre-scientific earth that simply does not exist now and never did.
The most limited grasp of history tells us that humans have always been subject to the devastating effects of natural disasters, with things such as droughts and floods causing famine, hunger and premature death. Then of course throughout human history there have been many devastating diseases that have decimated populations including the young. That is sheer history and cannot be credibly whitewashed. These are some effects and there are many more, that should lead one to the conclusion that this earth is not an in balance ecologically or otherwise "garden of Eden". That is true for any species, but especially for our own. It is a habitation in which humans need to strive against all the negatives that nature hurls at them.
Those effects are still with us today in many parts of the earth in much the same sort of devastating way they have been with us throughout all our history.
The question that needs to be answered is where have rampaging famine and hunger and disease been beaten back (ie subdued) and the damage inflicted by natural disasters been best mitigated? Do I need to answer that for you? Surely it is in societies like ours where human science and technologies have moved us a little closer to "heaven on earth".
That you will find is why China and India and others are pursuing the same sort of path we have travelled. And that, so their peoples can enjoy a more secure, healthier life on earth.
Posted by lrjones4 at 03/03/2009 @ 07:55am
The biblical command to have dominion over and subdue the earth,
Posted by lrjones4 at 03/03/2009 @ 12:46am
THOU SHALT ENSLAVE THE COWS!!!!!!!
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/03/2009 @ 09:10am
That you will find is why China and India and others are pursuing the same sort of path we have travelled. And that, so their peoples can enjoy a more secure, healthier life on earth.
Posted by lrjones4 at 03/03/2009 @ 07:55am
God forbid that India should ever take to industrialism after the manner of the west... keeping the world in chains. If [our nation] took to similar economic exploitation, it would strip the world bare like locusts.
~Mahatma Gandhi
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/03/2009 @ 09:12am
That you will find is why China and India and others are pursuing the same sort of path we have travelled. And that, so their peoples can enjoy a more secure, healthier life on earth.
Posted by lrjones4 at 03/03/2009 @ 07:55am
you need to read this:
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/
2007/12/last-empire-chinas-pollution-problem-goes-global
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/03/2009 @ 09:15am
Once we start a TP recycled project our problems will be all behind us.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
sorry
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 03/03/2009 @ 09:16am
Wiping your rear can be accomplished quite satisfactorily using your hand, which you then rinse off and wash. There is no need for toilet paper at all - as the vast majority of Indians (and people from other cultures) prove every day.
Posted by srjenkins at 03/02/2009 @ 11:33pm
I take it your wife turned you `on' to this earth-friendly accomplishment.....how enlightening.....I wonder how many Indians I meet, do what your family does, wipe your ass w/your hands.
I think I may stop going to Indian restaurants!
Posted by Happy at 03/03/2009 @ 11:30am
I wonder how many Indians I meet, do what your family does, wipe your ass w/your hands. Posted by Happy at 03/03/2009 @ 11:30am
Hey Happ! What do you wipe your ass with? Your feet? I assume it is your hand with a wad of toilet paper in it. Do you wash you hands after? People who actually wash their butts with water instead of smearing crap all over their buttocks with paper also wash their hands after they do their business. They have a clean butt and clean hands. With your tree killing method all you end up with is clean hands and a smelly butt...
Posted by chaoszen at 03/03/2009 @ 12:53pm
I think I may stop going to Indian restaurants!
Posted by Happy at 03/03/2009 @ 11:30am
Yeah Happy, just chundered up me brekky but SR is correct. We had friends who visited India and the lady of the house did the honors aka naked female hand on naked male a... (a bit below an Indian blokes dignity I guess or perhaps males lack technique anyway my understanding is the Indian men get the ladies to wipe theirs too).
My understanding is one hand (always the same one) is used for botty cleaning and the other kept pure for handling food etc. Thus in times of drought, washing can be skipped.
Haven't been to an Indian eating house since I learned of that delightful practice. (Since our dog disappeared I've been dodging the local Vietmanese one too). We Westerners must have weak stomachs.
Posted by lrjones4 at 03/03/2009 @ 6:14pm
.....in times of drought, washing can be skipped.....that delightful practice.....
Posted by lrjones4 at 03/03/2009 @ 6:14pm
My imagery of Ghandi, srj and chaoszen, have been completed!
Posted by Happy at 03/03/2009 @ 6:41pm
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/
2007/12/last-empire-chinas-pollution-problem-goes-global
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/03/2009 @ 09:15am
Couldn't find the relevant article there FZ.
The sort of objective measures I would be interested in would be changes in the status of various diseases and life expectancy trends. The latter tells you how well you are going on the first and also tells one something about how safe (for human life) the specific environment is.
Posted by lrjones4 at 03/03/2009 @ 6:46pm
Save Trees? Save money and the Earth and be clean at the same time! Get serious and add Bathroom Bidet Sprayers to all your bathrooms. I think Dr. Oz on Oprah said it best: "if you had pee or poop on your hand, you wouldn't wipe it off with paper, would you? You'd wash it off" Available at www.bathroomsprayers.com with these you won't even need toilet paper any more, just a towel to dry off! Don't worry, you can still leave some out for guests and can even make it the soft stuff without felling guilty. It's cheap and can be installed without a plumber; and runs off the same water line to your toilet. You'll probably pay for it in a few months of toilet paper savings. And after using one of these you won't know how you lasted all those years with wadded up handfuls of toilet paper. As for water use a drought is always a concern and must be dealt with prudently but please remember that in the big picture the industrial water users always far exceed the water use of household users and in the case of toilet paper manufacture it is huge. The pollution and significant power use from that manufacturing process also contributes to global warming so switching to a hand bidet sprayer and lowering your toilet paper use is very green in multiple ways.
Posted by Jeff9 at 03/03/2009 @ 9:06pm
Both the author and the Greenpeace are being disingenuous if not out right lying. NO old growth forests are being cut down for toilet or any other type of disposable paper. Most logging going on in old growth forests are for upper end furniture items.
Paper products are all made using trees specifically planted and grown for that purpose on tree farms. There is no danger of these tree farms disappearing, the paper companies keep the crop up to meet the expected demand. Indeed between these commercial tree farms and the forest management the US has more acres of trees today than they did 200 years ago.
As for the various suggestions about alternatives to toilet paper, I personally like bidets but you have to remember how toilet paper came to be the preferred method in the US in the first place. Until just recently running water and indoor plumbing were not common everywhere and fresh water supplies have ALWAYS been an issue in the US particularly in the Southwest. I find it rather ironic that the eco crowd jumping on the article's bandwagon without thinking and immediately suggest using bidets when one of the major eco issues is future fresh water supplies.
Posted by Stardreamer at 03/03/2009 @ 9:58pm
NO old growth forests are being cut down for toilet or any other type of disposable paper. Most logging going on in old growth forests are for upper end furniture items....Paper products are all made using trees specifically planted and grown for that purpose on tree farms.
Posted by Stardreamer at 03/03/2009 @ 9:58pm
You are correct....an owner of old growth forests (like Maxxam) who sold his centuries old board feet for generic paper products would be more insane than the disingenuous author or Greenpeace!
However, I want to mention something.....
6~7 years ago, I lived and worked out of Oakland for about 3 months, and I noticed that in some Home Depot, one can buy fencing pickets made of red wood...it sent chills up my spine....I can appreciate red wood is hardy and likely to outlast the cedar and pine pickets that are the norm here in Texas, still.....red wood for fencing! Pretty nutty!
Posted by Happy at 03/03/2009 @ 10:08pm
lrj.....
http://tinyurl.com/dgfgdp
that should work.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/03/2009 @ 10:29pm
lrj.....
here's another one:
China birth defects 'up sharply'
A senior family planning official in China has noted an alarming rise in the number of babies with birth defects, a Chinese media report says.
Jiang Fan, from China's National Population and Family Planning Commission, said environmental pollution was a cause of the increase.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7863290.stm
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/03/2009 @ 10:30pm
flush your toilet with your old bath water.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/03/2009 @ 10:34pm
Posted by Happy at 03/03/2009 @ 11:30am
You'll recall I lived in India for 10 weeks last year. Many toilets are not equiped to flush paper, so by necessity, you learn how to go without and you learn the social customs that entails.
I think your commentary is an excellent example of why the term, "Ugly American" became so widespread. Maybe you should read the book.
Posted by lrjones4 at 03/03/2009 @ 6:14pm
In most circumstances, people wipe their own ass in India. Exceptions are sometimes made for the sick or very old - just like where you live. Women don't wipe the asses of their men - not now or traditionally.
From a practical point of view, people use their left hand for ass wiping. People generally view anything done with the left hand as unclean.
I will also point out that having a social convention of which hand to use and treating that hand differently is more thoughtful and hygienic that going to other parts of the world that use bidets and don't have a similar social custom.
Additionally, by the logic you are using, you should stop eating at food at places serving cuisine from France, Greece, Brazil, any Arabic speaking country, Japan, and so forth. Many places don't use toilet paper.
Posted by srjenkins at 03/04/2009 @ 12:02am
Additionally, by the logic you are using, you should stop eating at food at places serving cuisine from France, Greece, Brazil, any Arabic speaking country, Japan, and so forth. Many places don't use toilet paper.
Posted by srjenkins at 03/04/2009 @ 12:02am
You'll have to fill me in on the rest but snails and raw fish rule out French and Japanese eateries for me.
But it's probably best we don't always know what delicacy is on our plate when we eat out.
Recently a New South Wales pub got into a bit of trouble in the courts here for serving up a human turd in a bowel of ice cream. It seems it was a payback for the rudeness of a very snobbish women patron. The only redeeming feature, as far as I can see is that it was an Aussie turd (courtesy of the aggrieved chef).
(I got those anecdotes about Indian toilet habits from my wife. It was her girlfriend, who had been in India with her husband for several months, who gave her the basic information so there may have been a little poetic licence involved in the transmission (to me) process).
Posted by lrjones4 at 03/04/2009 @ 12:59am
Hmmm funny way to spell bowl.
Read your stuff FZ. That's progress for you. Two steps forwards then one backwards. You will notice that it is human science (medical this time) that will sort out what is causing that spike in birth defects and correct it. From memory I think the release of mercury in the burning of coal is thought to be a significant factor in birth defects.
China will have to sort out its pollution problems in much the same way as Western Europe did post the Industrial Revolution. Sort of confirms the hypothesis that nature is always out to beat us and "subduing it" is always in the present tense .
Posted by lrjones4 at 03/04/2009 @ 03:53am
You'll recall I lived in India for 10 weeks last year. Many toilets are not equiped to flush paper, so by necessity, you learn how to go without and you learn the social customs that entails.
I think your commentary is an excellent example of why the term, "Ugly American" became so widespread. Maybe you should read the book.
Posted by srjenkins at 03/04/2009 @ 12:02am
I don't have much problem with the "when in Rome, do as the Romans do"....and when I traveled in Asia, or for that matter went camping in the US in primitive areas with outhouses, I've certainly used latrines that are just holes in the ground.....but always, toilet papers are either provided or one is expected to supply ones' own.
What I have a problem w/your posts, and that chaoszen, is that, IMO, it's highly doubtful that you do as you preach here in the US....and for my sake and those you `touch', I sure hope so.
As for resorting to the strawman attack of "Ugly American", what's fair is fair, as I surely consider Indians (generically in India) as Dirty Indians...and please, don't tell me you have never thought of stereotyping some groups.
Posted by Happy at 03/04/2009 @ 11:29am
Posted by Happy at 03/04/2009 @ 11:29am
The irony of your complaining about a "strawman attack" on your ethnocentric, cultural bigotry while engaged in same is not lost on me.
There is a cost involved in wiping one's ass. Savan is raising the issue, and chaoszen and I are merely taking her concern to the logical conclusion.
Also, here's a tip. Arguing that you suspect that chaoszen and I don't practice what we preach - is a strawman argument. Our behavior has no bearing on the validity of our argument. So, if you are going to complain about people engaging in strawmen, then you should practice what YOU preach and not engage in it yourself.
Posted by srjenkins at 03/04/2009 @ 12:42pm
Arguing that you suspect that chaoszen and I don't practice what we preach - is a strawman argument. Our behavior has no bearing on the validity of our argument....
Posted by srjenkins at 03/04/2009 @ 12:42pm
You would be an excellent right-hand (not a dirty left hand) man to Al Gore or any preachy big name.....it's the thought count, I get it.
Note that I have no problem in being honest by professing of thinking Indians as generically Dirty......just as I tend to think most blacks I see as from single-parent families, uneducated or raised by grandparents...stereotypical? Yes! Honest? You bet! True more often than not? Absolutely!
Posted by Happy at 03/04/2009 @ 2:16pm
Posted by Happy at 03/04/2009 @ 2:16pm
It's called logic, Happy. So, yes, it's the thought that counts not one's gut or prejudices.
What Indians are, generically, is poor. People working in the fields make about 50 rupees (about US$1.20 a day). And like poor people everywhere, they have to deal with people calling them Trash, Dirty or other adjectives that deny their humanity.
If not for an accident of your birth, you could have been among them. There may even come a time, yet, where you find yourself on the streets begging for change or alone in a hospital bed waiting to die penniless - because your life savings has been wiped out by a cancer diagnosis. But, hey, maybe you'll be lucky - but not everyone is.
Posted by srjenkins at 03/04/2009 @ 3:31pm
OK, in the spirit of bi-partisanship.....
I'll rephrase, to be more PC, that Indians are, generally by "accident" of birth, born poor and like poor people anywhere, are predisposed to be dirty.
BYW, the fact I hold such view on the average Indian (in India), which you agree in your PC way, doesn't at all mean I would call them "Trash, Dirty or other adjectives that deny their humanity" to their face....is there a way for you to concede such?
You may think your boss a dirty, greedy scoundrel, but something tells me, you like your high-paying job far more than moving beyond mere "thought"....but the thought count, right?
Us conservatives want everybody above the poverty line, everybody to have a piece of the Ownership Society.......presumably, no arguments from you as to our thoughts counting as much as any of yours!
Posted by Happy at 03/04/2009 @ 6:06pm
Posted by Happy at 03/04/2009 @ 6:06pm
There is a difference between acknowledging the fact that someone is poor and thinking they are dirty. In short, I don't agree with you at all.
I would also argue that thinking someone is "dirty" - whether or not you are overt about it or not - changes your interactions with them. A racist that thinks of black people as niggers is still a racist whether or not he says the word to black people or not. Same principle applies.
Now, you may be honest about your attitudes and prejudices - and you are right, at least that is something. But honest racism isn't any more appealing than any other kind.
Also, the problem you have with what you call is PC is your ideas that it is false - that underlying it is a hidden racism. That's a legitimate point. That's just as bad as the overt kind.
But, people you claim are being PC also have a legitimate point. We should think long and hard about the way that we think about people and our prejudices and make our best effort to put them aside - actually and not some B.S. pretending.
I won't bother responding to your comment about "my boss" - since it doesn't reflect anything akin to reality.
"Us conservatives want everybody above the poverty line..."
Interesting. I read quite a bit of thoughtful conservative commentary - but rarely does poverty figure into the conversation. "Conservatives", as near as I can tell, think poverty is best handled by churches, non-profits and so forth and doesn't figure into their political philsophy (particularly federal government) hardly at all.
In my view, it's a lot of wishful thinking about markets and rising tides lifting all boats and what not - that is belied by reality.
Posted by srjenkins at 03/04/2009 @ 8:46pm