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RedditIt is frequently suggested that the Democratic Party, once fairly divided on the issue of trade policy, has moved in recent years toward the fair-trade camp. As such, while most Republicans continue to preach the free-trade orthodoxy of the 1990s with all the associated fantasia about a coming boom for U.S. manufacturers and farmers, relief of global poverty and the certain spread of democracy, Democrats are supposed to be the realists who recognize the failure of the North American Free Trade Agreement, granting permanent Most-Favored Nation status to China and other trade-related missteps of the Clinton years.
But for the critical position of Secretary of Commerce, which has a significant role in both the framing and advancement of trade policies, Obama has nominated former Washington Governor Gary Locke.
Obama says that Locke will be "a trusted voice in my Cabinet" on economic issues, while Locke says he'll make the Commerce Department -- which has traditionally been the corporate bastion in Democratic and Republican administrations -- an "active and integral partner" in shaping and promoting Obama's economic agenda.
Unfortunately, to the extent that Obama has expressed a desire to develop trade policies that are more responsive to Main Street than Wall Street, there is little reason to believe that the Commerce nominee is on board.
Locke has long been one of the Democratic Party's most ardent advocates for free trade agreements that get high marks from multinational corporations but are condemned by human rights groups and labor, farm and environmental organizations.
As the Wall Street Journal gleefully notes:
A lawyer by training, Mr. Locke moved to an international law firm, Davis Wright Tremaine LLP, focusing on Chinese trade. Mr. Locke long has been an advocate of free trade, supporting former President Bill Clinton's effort to make China a member of the World Trade Organization, and supporting the North American Free Trade Agreement.
Back in the days when Clinton was hustling to attain permanent normalization of trade relations (PNTR) with China, human rights groups objected that this would harm their ability to advocate for better treatment of Tibetans and other ethnic and religious minorities, as well as for labor rights in China.
Locke countered those arguments and others with the since-discredited argument that free trade would help bring more democracy and equity to China. Indeed, Locke was in the forefront of efforts to get congressional Democrats to stop listening to the human rights and labor advocates and embrace free trade. Among other things, he helped organize a letter from Democratic governors that was delivered to Congress shortly before the spring, 2000, vote and read in part: "We call on Democrats to put aside past conflicts over trade and come together on a dual strategy of expanding markets while expanding the 'winners' circle' -- to join President Clinton in his campaign to put a human face on the global economy, enabling workers both at home and abroad to improve their lives."
When Democrats continued to meet with and echo the concerns of Chinese human rights campaigners, Locke and his allies wrote to House Minority Leader Dick Gephardt, D-Missouri, with the specific purpose of countering the concern that passage of the PNTR legislation would be a setback for the cause of freedom. "This move will strengthen the rule of law and accelerate domestic reforms in China," read the letter signed by Locke, whose status as one of the nation's most prominent Chinese-American officials carried a good deal of weight. "The long-term political and social impacts of China's accession may even exceed the commercial benefits."
Locke has been proven wrong -- not merely by the yawning U.S. trade deficit with China but by the last report from the United Nations on human rights abuses in that country.
According to the State Department report, which was released Wednesday:
The [Chinese] government's human rights record remained poor and worsened in some areas. During the year the government increased its severe cultural and religious repression of ethnic minorities in Tibetan areas and the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region (XUAR), increased detention and harassment of dissidents and petitioners, and maintained tight controls on freedom of speech and the Internet. Abuses peaked around high-profile events, such as the Olympics and the unrest in Tibet. As in previous years, citizens did not have the right to change their government. Nongovernmental organizations (NGOs), both local and international, continued to face intense scrutiny and restrictions. Other serious human rights abuses included extrajudicial killings, torture and coerced confessions of prisoners, and the use of forced labor, including prison labor. Workers cannot choose an independent union to represent them in the workplace, and the law does not protect workers' right to strike.The government continued to monitor, harass, detain, arrest, and imprison journalists, writers, activists, and defense lawyers and their families, many of whom were seeking to exercise their rights under the law. A lack of due process and restrictions on lawyers further limited progress toward rule of law, with serious consequences for defendants who were imprisoned or executed following proceedings that fell far short of international standards. The party and state exercised strict political control of courts and judges, conducted closed trials, and carried out administrative detention. Individuals and groups, especially those deemed politically sensitive by the government, continued to face tight restrictions on their freedom to assemble, their freedom to practice religion, and their freedom to travel. The government continued its coercive birth limitation policy, in some cases resulting in forced abortion or forced sterilization. The government failed to protect refugees adequately, and the detention and forced repatriation of North Koreans continued to be a problem. Serious social conditions that affected human rights included endemic corruption, trafficking in persons, and discrimination against women, minorities, and persons with disabilities.
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Attorney General Eric Holder said Wednesday the Guantanamo detention center is a well-run, professional facility that will be difficult to close.
I guess Holder approves of the increase of prisoner abuse at the facility.
Posted by abell12ct at 02/25/2009 @ 4:16pm
Posted by abell12ct at 02/25/2009 @ 4:16pm
Who'd you vote for, abell?
www.cbs.com
SCOTT PELLEY: Would you close Guantanamo Bay?
JOHN MCCAIN: Yes. I would close Guantanamo Bay. And I would move those prisoners to Fort Leavenworth. And I would proceed with the tribunals.
PELLEY: Why? What's wrong with the way it was handled?
MCCAIN: Guantanamo Bay has become an image throughout the world which has hurt our reputation. Whether we deserve it or not, the reality is Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib have harmed our reputation in the world, thereby harming our ability to win the psychological part of the war against radical Islamic extremism.
Posted by Mask at 02/25/2009 @ 4:23pm
Anyway, back on-topic....
Mr Nichols, you got somebody pro-labor at the Labor Department...
don't expect Dick Gephardt or Thom Hartmann to get Commerce.
Posted by Mask at 02/25/2009 @ 4:25pm
Well, we know that human rights are not a genuine concern, especially when it concerns China which is the largest holder of U.S. debt. Just reference Hillary Clinton's recent remarks.
But the last paragragh of the short and sweet Nation online lead off piece by Robert Scheer nails the most cogent point in the wake of Barack Obama's glowing speech:
"The critical test for Obama will be to break that incestuous circle of influence, particularly the clout of the bankers and the war profiteers and the other top lobbies that pay off both parties, and put the public interest first."
This is the central and immediate challenge that progressives need to keep under a bright hot spotlight.
Are we capable of repeatedly catapulting that message?
As Chris Hayes said today, "TV is an absurdly powerful medium". Let's all help ensure that the growing progressive presence exemplified by the MSNBC evening lineup is the beginning of a historic turning point for our greater nation as a whole.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 02/25/2009 @ 4:30pm
Posted by b_kool_66 at 02/25/2009 @ 4:30pm
B_KOOL, if we go full-out protectionist against China...and they STOP buying our debt...
what happens?
Posted by Mask at 02/25/2009 @ 4:43pm
Mass media is paying no attention to it, but Gary Locke, as Governor of Washington, overruled his own party in the state legislative assembly during the depths of the dot-com bubble recession. His goal? Doing the bidding of Microsoft and Boeing corporations - both powers in Washington State - by attacking and undermining the state's unemployment insurance system. This alone should be grounds for preventing his confirmation.
Locke is a Bobby Jindal wannabee. His nomination to the Cabinet is yet another example of President Obama pandering to wealthy and corporate interests. If reporters were doing their jobs, Locke's attack on Washington's unemployment system during a recession - the very essence of what is hanging Bobby Jindal from a tree - would be front in center in media right now.
Posted by syfriendly at 02/25/2009 @ 4:51pm
Maskot,
You're off point......what a shock.
I'm not advocating now, nor have I ever, some kind of full blown trade war with China. We'd get our doors blown off if we tried --as it is now, we're just losing our shirts.
The U.S. best option is to get off the militant schtick, and end our overseas occupations. This would be followed closely by fiscal austerity on the home front and a renewed emphasis on developing high tech manufacturing to enable us to actually sell value added goods abroad --and not military technology, please.
But first, we need government to spend profligately to provide a sort of short term CPR for an arrested and critically damaged economy. And "TARP" needs to address underlying fundamentals and essentially take over the failing Big Banks, at least for awhile.
No sweat.
Everytings gonna be alright, mon.
I'm out. Later dudes.
Posted by b_kool_66 at 02/25/2009 @ 5:01pm
I have no problem with this nominee (so far).....as far as his predisposition to global trade.
Though there is factual evidence his son-in-law's business dealings (large vendor to the state of WA) benefited tremendously from living in the Governor's mansion for 2 years.....Are there `fire' behind this smoke? Does anybody in the Demo Party care?
Posted by Happy at 02/25/2009 @ 5:02pm
"By overundercapitalizing the financial institutions with privblic funding derived from asset based collateralized minority quasinational institutions of equity liquidity, we will avoid the unnecessary necessity of debt obligations to creditless creditors of corrective action in easing the inflammatory causes of investor cost capital injection size."
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/25/2009 @ 2:29pm
sorry for the repost, but i'm afraid mr. bernanke's quote got lost in the myparty'sbetterthanyours thread.
these words will come back to haunt us.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/25/2009 @ 5:20pm
"By overundercapitalizing the financial institutions with privblic funding derived from asset based collateralized minority quasinational institutions of equity liquidity, we will avoid the unnecessary necessity of debt obligations to creditless creditors of corrective action in easing the inflammatory causes of investor cost capital injection size."
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/25/2009 @ 2:29pm
sorry for the repost, but i'm afraid mr. bernanke's quote got lost in the myparty'sbetterthanyours thread.
these words will come back to haunt us.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/25/2009 @ 5:20pm
Right (lol) those are words sure to be on the lips of every American.
Posted by antisocialist at 02/25/2009 @ 5:23pm
well...sure. lets just continue shipping our manufacturing base out to countries that pay their workers so low that even located on the other side of the world they can still undercut our dwindling manufacturing base!!!
because once all our manufacturing might (you remember your history, right? how in ww2 our manufacturing power saved the world from totalitarianism?) is gone and we produce no wealth...
we'll be sitting pretty then!!!!
fuck "free" trade. economic autarky with free trade only with those who pay their workers comparably to us.
except for mexico - they're our neighbors and once this economic DEPRESSION is over mexico will become an excellent investment.
and the rio grande will be effectively moved several hundred miles south.
as a PS, time to talk with the mexican federales about getting together to kill and/or bring to justice the armed criminal insurrectionists who are rampaging along our border with impunity known as the mexican cartels.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/25/2009 @ 7:04pm
Attorney General Eric Holder said Wednesday the Guantanamo detention center is a well-run, professional facility that will be difficult to close.
I guess Holder approves of the increase of prisoner abuse at the facility.
Posted by abell12ct at 02/25/2009 @ 4:16pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Apparently BUSH ran a great place according to this most recent report! Why does Obamanation want to close it?
Posted by comancheamerican at 02/25/2009 @ 7:07pm
This guy is a great fit! He knows how to benifit relatives and other faithful followers of the Undemocrat party with huge contracts, pork, and taxpayer funded porkulus payoffs making him a very important addition to the Obamanation administration!
Posted by comancheamerican at 02/25/2009 @ 7:13pm
This guy is a great fit! He knows how to benifit relatives and other faithful followers of the Undemocrat party with huge contracts, pork, and taxpayer funded porkulus payoffs making him a very important addition to the Obamanation administration!
Posted by comancheamerican at 02/25/2009 @ 7:13pm | ignore this person | warn this person
LOL!!!
why gee, rio...never see that on the republican side, do we?
LMAO!!!
c'mon, man...imputing one's own side's iniquity onto the enemy just does not work so well once people actually start paying attention...
let me issue you a challenge...
i freely admit that some dems are corrupt. are NO republicans corrupt?
glass houses, my friend. if you are a republican and talking corruption and incompetance, givin the last 8 years...
your house is gonna be worth a whole helluva lot less real soon!!!
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/25/2009 @ 7:31pm
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/25/2009 @ 7:31pm | ignore this person | warn this person
challenge not accepted...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/25/2009 @ 8:44pm
Those darn republicans actually paying their taxes, what were they thinking!
Posted by comancheamerican at 02/25/2009 @ 9:02pm
Why would China change its human rights policy. They are still growing at ten percent, thanks to us, with a Marxist type, nationally controlled economy. Is there some kind of irony in the fact that we are going to have to go to them, hat in hand, to borrow some of our money back to get us out of this stupid mess? They executed 10,000 people last year. They still haven't acknowleged the Tienanmen square massacre, let alone apologize for it. Why would they change something that works so well for them? They allow us to go over there and hire labor at sub human wages, and we do.
Posted by julien38 at 02/25/2009 @ 10:14pm
Free trade? Where?
So we don't have anything resembling free trade, but the conclusion is free trade is detrimental to human rights...
Yep, real promising future. I hope I'm a house slave. I really am not interested in building highway overpasses. Thank you politicians!
Posted by freiheit1 at 02/25/2009 @ 10:34pm
Don't worry freihetz over 38% of the construction workers in America are Mexican legal or illegal aliens. Now that Obamanation and the Undemocrats are reinstating WELFARE for their constituents NONE of them will be looking for those jobs and more Mexicans will be able to work! They will be so thankful to the Undemocrats they and the welfare slaves will all vote for Undemocrats from now on!
Posted by comancheamerican at 02/25/2009 @ 10:51pm
rio,
what you have written is quite odd.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/25/2009 @ 11:08pm
as a PS, time to talk with the mexican federales about getting together to kill and/or bring to justice the armed criminal insurrectionists who are rampaging along our border with impunity known as the mexican cartels.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/25/2009 @ 7:04pm
perhaps taking away their market would be cheaper.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/25/2009 @ 11:10pm
perhaps taking away their market would be cheaper.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/25/2009 @ 11:10pm | ignore this person | warn this person
To late, Obamanation is giving all their customers new welfare money to buy more drugs with!
Posted by comancheamerican at 02/25/2009 @ 11:20pm
well, rio...........
seems like i see a lot of red states here:
Health Statistics > Alcohol related traffic fatalities (per capita) (most recent) by state
#1 Mississippi: 1.167 per 10,000 people
#2 Wyoming: 1.158 per 10,000 people
#3 Montana: 1.133 per 10,000 people
#4 South Dakota: 1.108 per 10,000 people
#5 New Mexico: 1.094 per 10,000 people
#6 South Carolina: 1.09 per 10,000 people
#7 Arkansas: 0.993 per 10,000 people
#8 Alabama: 0.97 per 10,000 people
#9 Louisiana: 0.915 per 10,000 people
#10 Tennessee: 0.87 per 10,000 people
#11 Oklahoma: 0.784 per 10,000 people
#12 Missouri: 0.774 per 10,000 people
#13 West Virginia: 0.749 per 10,000 people
#14 Kentucky: 0.738 per 10,000 people
#15 Arizona: 0.732 per 10,000 people
#16 Texas: 0.718 per 10,000 people
#17 Florida: 0.687 per 10,000 people
#18 Idaho: 0.651 per 10,000 people
#19 Wisconsin: 0.647 per 10,000 people
#20 North Carolina: 0.637 per 10,000 people
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/25/2009 @ 11:25pm
Didn't you hear alcohol is not a drug and it is so much safer than smoking cigarettes, cigars, or pipes that everyone should be drinking, just not driving! We should be giving it to our children to enrich their lives with this socially acceptable and responsible beverage! Just listen to the ads, tv, and movies!
Posted by comancheamerican at 02/25/2009 @ 11:32pm
rio,
what you have written is quite odd.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/25/2009 @ 11:08pm | ignore this person | warn this person
No, just true, and not prophetic since that is how it was here before Clinton and the Republicans ended welfare!
Posted by comancheamerican at 02/25/2009 @ 11:34pm
Free Trade …
The potato, of "Irish Potato Famine" fame is innocent, and Mother Nature has been castigated, when in point of fact it was "free trade" that willfully and knowingly caused the deaths of over two (of eight) million Irish men woman (75 percent of whom were feudal tenants) and children.
The blight hit North Carolina, first, then over approximately the next two years hit the rest of the Northern Hemisphere. Ireland was the only land that experienced famine and mass death. Though not their only crop, potatoes were the only, produce … the tenants were allowed to eat (and feed to their livestock).
In the words of certain of the main cast of characters:
Arthur Young historian, on the status of the Irish tenant in Ireland:
"A landlord in Ireland can scarcely invent an order which a laborer, servant, or cottier [tenant farmer] dares to refuse .... He may punish with his cane or his horsewhip with the most perfect security. A poor man would have his bones broken if he offered to lift a hand in his own defense."
Free trade exported or sold all the corn, wheat, barley, and oats Irish farmers grew, in order that they should pay their rents. All crops are now cash crops--and there was nothing left for the farmer and his family to eat.
1845, the blight hits …
Irish members of the British Parliament in London proposed the government buy stocks of grain otherwise to be exported, and sell it in the worst famine areas, especially in Connaught where starvation deaths were growing.
Prime Minister Lord John Russell : "Purchase by government of any food in ordinary use is forbidden in order to avoid competition with private traders."
Posted by V at 02/26/2009 @ 01:56am
"We ought to be really concerned about a bank takeover of the country because we borrowed money from the banks to give to the banks, the banks give us toxic assets or hoard the money, or they use it to buy other banks. I don't think the Founders envisioned government of the banks, for the banks and by the banks."
~ some kook.
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/26/2009 @ 01:56am
Northern Trust, a Chicago-based bank, sponsored the Northern Trust Open at the Riviera Country Club in L.A. We're told Northern Trust paid millions to sponsor the PGA event which ended Sunday, but what happened off the golf course is even more shocking.
- Northern Trust flew hundreds of clients and employees to L.A. and put many of them up at some of the fanciest and priciest hotels in the city. We're told more than a hundred people were put up at the Beverly Wilshire in Bev Hills, and another hundred stayed at the Loews Santa Monica Beach Hotel. Still more stayed at the Ritz Carlton in Marina Del Rey and others at Casa Del Mar in Santa Monica.
- Wednesday, Northern Trust hosted a fancy dinner at the Ritz followed by a performance by the group Chicago.
- Thursday, Northern Trust rented a private hangar at the Santa Monica Airport for dinner, followed by a performance by Earth, Wind & Fire.
- Saturday, Northern Trust had the entire House of Blues in West Hollywood shut down for its private party. We got the menu -- guests dined on seared salmon and petite Angus filet. Dinner was followed by a performance by none other than Sheryl Crow.
There was also a fabulous cocktail party at the Loews. And how's this for a nice touch: Female guests at the Chicago concert all got trinkets from ... TIFFANY AND CO.
The expected Congressional response can be found here.
Not to worry; Northern Trust recieved only $1.6 billion in TARP money, but didn't ask for it. It was just taxpayer money anyway - you know, little people. They also laid off 450 people, but, again, little people, so also no worries. More evidence that the US response to the financial crisis has degenerated into a sad joke.
http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/
Posted by frosty zoom at 02/26/2009 @ 01:57am
...
Relief Commissioner Col. Henry Routh : "there must be a distinction clearly kept between the ordinary distress of the people, and that resulting from the losses of the potato crop, which alone it may be our object to relieve."
Treasury Head Sir Charles Trevelyan to Colonel Routh: "The only way to prevent people from becoming habitually dependent on government, is to bring [relief] operations to a close. The uncertainty about the new crop [there were already signs of a second year of potato blight] only makes it more necessary.... These things should be stopped now, or you run the risk of paralyzing all private enterprise and having this country on you for an indefinite number of years."
In autumn 1846 crops failed in many European countries, sending prices through the roof.
Trevelyan: "The high prices will have a regulating influence, as nothing is more calculated to attract supplies, and especially from America.... Do not encourage the idea of prohibiting exports (from Ireland): perfect Free Trade is the right course. Nothing ought to be done for the West of Ireland which might send prices, already high, still higher for people who, unlike the inhabitants of the West Coast of Ireland, have to depend on their own exertions." Winter, 1846-47, the Irish people begin to die of starvation in large numbers …
Colonel Routh, memo: "represent to applicants for government supplies of food, the necessity for private enterprise and importations."
Colonel Routh, memo:"Even if it were practicable at the moment to open our depots [he knew they were actually empty] it would be prejudicial to owners of grain, inasmuch as at present extraordinary prices can be realized."
Posted by V at 02/26/2009 @ 02:00am
February-March 1847 much like it has at present, free trade, and for the not tragically dumbed down always, has, collapses …
Lord Clarendon Viceroy to Ireland: "What is to be done with these hordes? Improve them off the face of the earth, you will say, let them die. But there is a certain responsibility attaching to it."
End of 1847 Trevelyan: ``It is my opinion that too much has been done for the people. Under such treatment the people have grown worse instead of better, and we must now try what independent exertion, and the operation of natural causes, can do.... I shall rest after two years of such continuous hard work in public service, as I have never had in my life."
Trevelyan after vacationing in France: "[The] problem of Irish overpopulation being altogether beyond the power of man, the cure had been supplied by the direct stroke of an all-wise Providence."
The Irish population was officially 8.1 million in 1845. Some 1.5 million human beings died of starvation and disease in Ireland in four years, while more than one million attempted to emigrate; of these, about 500,000 died--usually of typhus--in passage (free trades tragic export) or in quarantine camps in Canada and New England.
… During 1846, Ireland exported enough wheat, barley, oats, oatmeal, pigs, eggs, and butter to feed its entire population.
Free trade …
Only the 28%'ers will differentiate between the words and mentality of the founding free traders and their neo-con controller (tick) heirs.
Posted by V at 02/26/2009 @ 02:02am
Not to worry; Northern Trust recieved only $1.6 billion in TARP money, but didn't ask for it. It was just taxpayer money anyway - you know, little people. They also laid off 450 people, but, again, little people, so also no worries. More evidence that the US response to the financial crisis has degenerated into a sad joke.
http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/
Posted by frosty zoom
Stock tip....
Invest heavily in...Crowley Chemical Co. one of the US' main TAR producers.
also invest in...SA Feather Co., a feather supplier.
It only makes sense.
Posted by koroviev at 02/26/2009 @ 03:33am
s a PS, time to talk with the mexican federales about getting together to kill and/or bring to justice the armed criminal insurrectionists who are rampaging along our border with impunity known as the mexican cartels.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/25/2009 @ 7:04pm
end prohibition.
------
On topic,
I guess this cabinet pick just goes to show us all how Marxist Obama really is, right Neo=cons?
Posted by crabwalk at 02/26/2009 @ 07:43am
No, just true, and not prophetic since that is how it was here before Clinton and the Republicans ended welfare!
Posted by comancheamerican at 02/25/2009 @ 11:34pm
Ended welfare?
I missed that.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/26/2009 @ 07:49am
"ended welfare"...
2007-2008, budget signed by George Bush, estimated general assistance to states= $42 billion.
2 months of what we borrow to stay in Iraq.
Again, a question none of the cons have answered, if you were willing to spend $1,000,000,000 a WEEK in Iraq, why are you unwilling to spend 1/2 that in the US?
Posted by crabwalk at 02/26/2009 @ 08:06am
Posted by crabwalk at 02/26/2009 @ 07:49am
RIO's lost his marbles, CRAB....go over to the "Draft Sirota" thread to see how badly.
Posted by Mask at 02/26/2009 @ 09:07am
I know this is way off topic here. But how does leaving a "residual" force of 50,000 troops in Iraq constitute a withdrawl? Why is no one on the left talking about this? That is like 3 divisions or maybe 10 brigades that will be left in Iraq after the "withdrawl." A residual force would be at most one brigade..
And when Obama talked about cutting wasteful spending on medicare and then raised Social Security in the same sentence he mumbled something about "Tax Free Savings Accounts", and that was it. Tax Free Savings Accounts were the Bush solution for privatization of Social Security.
What's up with this guy??
Posted by chaoszen at 02/26/2009 @ 09:59am
Posted by chaoszen at 02/26/2009 @ 09:59am
No, because he's not talking about REPLACING Social Security with TFSA or taking the money OUT of Social Security payroll taxes to put into TFSA.
It's the old "Social Security-Plus" idea that Clinton tried....but wasn't "good enough" for the Repubs who wanted to start SS towards privitazation.
Posted by Mask at 02/26/2009 @ 10:03am
Posted by Mask at 02/26/2009 @ 10:03am
In other words what you are saying is that we would also have the option of a TFSA on top of Social Security? Why didn't he say that? And it seems to me that would open the door to privatization. Why not just say he wanted to remove or increase the cap on Social Security payroll deductions. Everyone who looks into these things knows that would make Social Security solvent forever.. I'm trying to understand these things in order to look after my own best interest.
Kinda spooked me..
Posted by chaoszen at 02/26/2009 @ 10:15am
Another appalling pick by Obama! Mask, there are members of the economic establishment who are not ardent free traders, you know. Hell, I'd dance a jig if Paul Craig Roberts - Reagan Administration Treasury official and shockingly big fan of Milton Friedman (ptuh!) - were appointed as Commerce Secretary because he recognizes the faults of our current trade policies.
Of course, he's pro-civil liberties and gun rights, too, so there's no chance Obama would appoint him to anything.
Obama seems to love the idea of stocking his Cabinet with politicians instead of technocrats. You know, the get the job done types instead of the pinheads. I wouldn't object so much if he weren't picking politicians who are whores to Big Agriculture (Vilsack), Big Finance (Rahm Emmanuel, among others) and the Church of Free Trade (Locke).
Alexander Cockburn and others are right. The best we can hope for is that Obama and Co. will be pushed to the left by events and mass mobilization. Otherwise, it will be 4-8 years of very little change that we can believe in, and some changes (Social Security, et al) that will be just more of the same.
Posted by cka2nd at 02/26/2009 @ 10:42am
Posted by cka2nd at 02/26/2009 @ 10:42am
1. Like LVLIB on the other side, you set the bar at the extreme, CKA (being an admitted socialist)...so your analysis of Obama and Locke must be taken as hardly "mainstream".
2. We CANNOT get into the kind of protectionist mode RIGHT NOW that you and others want. Now don't start denying that's what you want, because it sure as hell SOUNDS like that from your rhetoric.
If we start f'ing with China on trade, they get pissy...and that means trouble when it comes to buying our debt and keeping the North Koreans (about to go "orbital") in line.
After some TIME, we might be able to start "get tough" on trade, but not in the middle of a major recession.
Posted by Mask at 02/26/2009 @ 10:47am
Why not just say he wanted to remove or increase the cap on Social Security payroll deductions. Everyone who looks into these things knows that would make Social Security solvent forever.. I'm trying to understand these things in order to look after my own best interest.
Kinda spooked me..
Posted by chaoszen at 02/26/2009 @ 10:15am
Because that would be taking more out of the "working familys" paychecks that the $13 he is putting back in for a tax cut...see?
And then he could no longer say he is helping the middle class when as a result of saving the Ponzi scheme, er, the SS system "forever", he is taking more of their money on top of the fyper spending spree we are now in..
Kinda spooks me.
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/26/2009 @ 12:11pm
After some TIME, we might be able to start "get tough" on trade, but not in the middle of a major recession.
Posted by Mask at 02/26/2009 @ 10:47am
Been hearing that for almost 20 years.
Meanwhile our debt grows, to one of the worlds largest abusers of human beings.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/26/2009 @ 12:37pm
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/26/2009 @ 12:11pm |
See? Take comfort, chaos.....MAASCH is "spooked".
Posted by Mask at 02/26/2009 @ 12:39pm
See? Take comfort, chaos.....MAASCH is "spooked".
Posted by Mask at 02/26/2009 @ 12:39pm
So should you...
...but I guess you think all this "stimulus" spending is just fine...PLUS the 8% increase of regular budget, the second stimulus bill coming.....and you see nothing wrong on the horizon regarding all these dollars entering the system...?
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/26/2009 @ 12:42pm
I honestly don't know why anyone would be 'gleeful' these days regarding 'free' trade. Not even the plutocrats who will benefit in the short run. If the US collapses do they think they will be spared or do they intend to actually go live in China?
Posted by SK9 at 02/26/2009 @ 12:50pm
Look to Asia
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/25/2009
"The party and state exercised strict political control of courts and judges, conducted closed trials, and carried out administrative detention. Individuals and groups, especially those deemed politically sensitive by the government, continued to face tight restrictions on their freedom to assemble, their freedom to practice religion, and their freedom to travel. The government continued its coercive birth limitation policy, in some cases resulting in forced abortion or forced sterilization. The government failed to protect refugees adequately, and the detention and forced repatriation of North Koreans continued to be a problem. Serious social conditions that affected human rights included endemic corruption, trafficking in persons, and discrimination against women, minorities, and persons with disabilities"
Johns new utopia. As long as the money flows, screw the human rights.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/26/2009 @ 1:50pm
Maybe if Sean Penn visited Hu?
Posted by crabwalk at 02/26/2009 @ 1:54pm
Posted by crabwalk at 02/26/2009 @ 1:50pm
Sounds like what is happening here or coming soon...
won't be long before some govt guy in a spiffy uniform and badge with ALGORES face on it comes to your house to measure your carbon print and says you have too many kids and are killing the planet...
then they will count the race of the family and regulate fair amount so the country has a racial balance and fairness...
judges already make laws from the bench...
govt control all of economy and financial system.
we already have discrimination against those who work hard and earn high incomes..so we take more from them at a faster and higher rate, damn them, even tho they pay for almost all of the jobs and taxes....
In the mean time China opens up more and heads towards a more open society..
and we head in the other direction as the left cheers progressiveness and govt mandated fairness for all outcomes!!!
eventualy, I can see a reversal of our 2 systems in the future...only question is how long will it take us to become them and they become what we used to be ...
Chrisianity and religion is being removed from everywhere....
we ignore our own history and deny our founding pronciples of the INDIVIDUAL..
We don't have N Korean problem..we have a Mexican problem..as Mexico descends into drug chaos we will invade some day...
your property can be confiscated and used by something else that produces more taxes for...govt...
Fairness Doctrine coming to "balance" out free speech..(or regulate it)
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/26/2009 @ 2:05pm
"and you see nothing wrong on the horizon regarding all these dollars entering the system...?"-----Posted by YourJomamma at 02/26/2009 @ 12:42pm
You had no problem with "all these dollars" disappearing down a rathole in Iraq ($650 BILLION of them to be exact)....yet somehow if it's spent IN AMERICA, we're "doomed"!
"Chrisianity and religion is being removed from everywhere...."---Posted by YourJomamma at 02/26/2009 @ 2:05pm
Specifally...where?
Posted by Mask at 02/26/2009 @ 2:18pm
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/26/2009 @
You have a strong imagination, my friend.
Why don't you discuss the recent supreme court decision "removing Christianity" from public places, authored by Justice Alito? Is he now a part of this leftist agenda you live in fear of?
On your jobs:
Based on your attack on my attempts to create jobs , I assume then that you have offered lifetime contracts to those 6 people, and you are picking up their health care (as 50k salary won't cover one heart operation )?
----
"In the mean time China opens up more and heads towards a more open society.. "
List some of the opening of political and religious freedoms. As I posted the other day, in 2008 they jailed more dissidents than Castro and Chavez combined. (and those are just the ones they admit to!)
List the newest freedoms of Tibetans.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/26/2009 @ 2:54pm
Fairness Doctrine coming to "balance" out free speech..(or regulate it)
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/26/2009 @ 2:05pm
House Bill #?
"your property can be confiscated and used by something else that produces more taxes for...govt... "
Not as bad as in say....China.
"we already have discrimination against those who work hard and earn high incomes.."
YEs, I can clearly see it in the rising equity of pay...NOT!!
Posted by crabwalk at 02/26/2009 @ 2:58pm
here ya go:
http://www.supremecourtus.gov/
opinions/08pdf/07-665.pdf
I know, I know....not "real" Christians. Therefore they should be denied the "right" to put their 7 Suggestions in the same park as the 10 Suggestions.
Meanwhile neither JOM, LUVVY, ANTI, USC1, CHIP, ABEL or SJ has been able to offer up a single instance of a Christian being denied the practice of their religion in their home or place of worship. Mega churches blossom like fungi after a spring rain, paying no property tax but occasionally avoiding zoning regs.
But, they KNOW they are under attack. From Code Pink.
Be afraid of little old ladies. They are not what they seem. When they open their mouths to eat little Joe Stalins heads pop out, like a Birkenstock wearin' Alien, and devour en uetero babies by the dozen.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/26/2009 @ 3:20pm
end prohibition
Posted by crabwalk at 02/26/2009 @ 07:43am | ignore this person | warn this person
yes, of course.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/26/2009 @ 4:10pm
Maybe if Sean Penn visited Hu? Posted by crabwalk at 02/26/2009 @ 1:54pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Hu's on first
Posted by emile duBois at 02/26/2009 @ 4:24pm
Posted by crabwalk at 02/26/2009 @ 2:54pm
It's a "throwaway phrase" (as is a lot of MAASCH's rhetoric).
"Chrisianity and religion is being removed from everywhere...."
Same for his "I'm a white, working, married, christian male...I'm endangered!"
Ditto-head fodder that Rush and Sean and Glenn Beck throw out, because it's no longer the "good ol' days" of 1953 (pre-Brown vs Board of course), where guys like MAASCH ran the show (or like Willy Loman THOUGHT they did) and women, non-Christians, and "others" knew their place and were well "taken care of".
Posted by Mask at 02/26/2009 @ 4:26pm
Off topic, but...
I know not many of you cherrish George Will the way I do, but I think you may find his juxtaposition fascinating.
His thesis is food is the new sex and he talks about a grandma and grandaughter.
Gramma eats meat and junk food but says sex outside of marriage is immoral.
The whippersnapper feels meat is immoral, but screws anything with a pulse. (Maybe I embellished that a little.)
Anyway, it's not a you'll-burn-in-hell-evil-fornicators-type piece, it's just an interesting observation.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/02/
mindful_eating_and_mindless_se.html
Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 02/26/2009 @ 5:32pm
Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 02/26/2009 @ 5:32pm | ignore this person | warn this person
i've always liked will, though i disagree with his love affair with satano-aynrando economics, which i do not consider conservative.
but you righties have the morality thing 100% right in the big picture. the devil, of course, is in the details...
on the one hand i agree that there has been a near complete breakdown of morality in this country and that much of this is the result of foolish ideas and notions of the sanctimonius, everything goes, ideologized left of the 60's and 70's, especially that which emanated from (and continues to do so) from post secondary social sciences and education departments...
the problems i have are twofold...
1. the moral rot is every bit as evident within the right as the left, with the ruling elite trust fund class as with the illegitimate baby factory classes...just different in terms of specific moral failure...
2. as a member of a religious minority who respects and believes in science as well as my personal mumbo jumbo, i have been horrified and dismayed at the rise of arrogant fundamentalist, politicized, christianity under the republicans' rise and fall...
time the republican party seriously re-thought its hardcore commitment to anarchic libertarian objectivist levayan satanism...
thats not real conservatism and undercuts the party's commitment to values. makes it look hypocritical.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/26/2009 @ 6:39pm
Did anybody else notice how subdued George Will looked last week on Stephaluffigus's talking head show? He was up against a couple of economists that saw tis meltdown coming. When you are getting your ideology trundled about by Krugman, you know your in trouble.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/26/2009 @ 6:59pm
this meltdown coming. When you are getting your ideology trundled about by Krugman, you know you're in trouble.
sorry.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/26/2009 @ 7:00pm
Posted by Mask at 02/26/2009 @ 4:26pm
They're black they're brown they're up their down
They're in they're out they're all about
They're far they're near they're gone they're here
They're quick and slick and insincere
Beware Beware Be a very wary bear
A Heffalump or Woozle is very confusel
The Heffalump or woosel is very sly
- sly - sly - sly
They come in ones and twoosels
but if they so choosels
before your eyes you'll see them multiply
- ply - ply - ply
They're extra-ordinary so better be wary
Because they come in every shape and size
- size - size - size
If honey is what you covet you'll find that they love it
Because they guzzle up the thing you prize
They're green they're blue they're pink they're white
They're round they're square they're a terrible sight
They tie themselves in horrible knots
They come in stripes or polka-dots
Beware Beware Be a very wary bear
They're extra-ordinary so better be wary
Because they come in every shape and size
- size - size - size
If honey's what you covet you'll find that they love it
Because they guzzle up the things you prize
They're black they're brown they're up their down
They're in they're out they're all about
They're far they're near they're gone they're here
They're quick and slick and insincere
Beware Beware Beware Beware Beware ....
Posted by crabwalk at 02/26/2009 @ 7:04pm
If we start f'ing with China on trade, they get pissy...and that means trouble when it comes to buying our debt and keeping the North Koreans (about to go "orbital") in line.
Posted by Mask at 02/26/2009 @ 10:47am
Sort of a damned if we do, damned if don't scenario.........
'Every major western government is borrowing hand over fist and the central bankers they appoint are printing money to prevent their profligacy from sending the cost of borrowing sky high. The US Congress, although by no means the only offender, is the worst. The only reason that this has not caused massive inflation is because China has so far been willing to take worthless paper in return for real goods. Like all rulers they're not acting out of the goodness of their hearts. A bout of inflation in China's number one customer would threaten Chinese prosperity and stability, and that would be bad for the communists.
The people accusing the Chinese of acting unfairly are the very people China is bailing out, i.e. Congress. They charge China with "stealing" jobs. It is true that some jobs that were once done in the west are now done in China but that does not mean that there will be fewer jobs here. China's currency manipulation means that we can have cheap borrowing and low prices. The economic equivalent of having your cake and eating it is behind the most powerful jobs-creation machine in the world.'
Excerpt:
Currency Manipulation: Why Blame China For Something We're All Doing Written by Mark Richard Adams Published May 13, 2006 Blogcritics.org
Obama sets stage for China trade war WASHINGTON -- U.S. President Barack Obama has set the stage for a possible trade war with China by branding the Asian giant a currency manipulator.....
The China Post; 01/24/09; Commentary; Ex
Posted by OneVote at 02/26/2009 @ 7:05pm
Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 02/26/2009 @ 5:32pm
Does George Will look like he gets a lot of food OR sex?
heheh
Posted by Mask at 02/26/2009 @ 8:01pm
Posted by OneVote at 02/26/2009 @ 7:05pm |
No...just not RIGHT NOW. Start paying down the debt...get some manufacturing jobs HERE...and then you can take on China.
But they hold too many strings now.
Posted by Mask at 02/26/2009 @ 8:02pm
CRAB,
My son likes the old Poohs...but THIS is his favorite song-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZnYzD-LnSU
Posted by Mask at 02/26/2009 @ 8:04pm
But they hold too many strings now.
Posted by Mask at 02/26/2009 @ 8:02pm | ignore this person | warn this person
I am on board with assessment. Ultimately, will are going to have to bring jobs to the US - and these jobs will need some protections. First things first, however. Good call.
Posted by OneVote at 02/26/2009 @ 8:13pm
Posted by crabwalk at 02/26/2009 @ 7:04pm | ignore this person | warn this person
the wonderful thing about tiggers is tiggers are wonderful things...
their legs are made of rubber and their tails are made of springs...
the wonderful thing about tiggers is tiggers are wonderful things...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/26/2009 @ 9:49pm
.....Start paying down the debt...and then you can take on China.
Posted by Mask at 02/26/2009 @ 8:02pm
Let me try your role....
When do you think we'll "Start paying down the debt"? And, how exactly that will come about?
Remember, Magic himself only said he aims to half the deficit to the 0h-so-low number of $500~$600 Billion by 2012. My call is $Trillion+ deficit every year of his Presidency!
The Gubberment can't make up for the loss of almost $20 Trillion in US wealth and the policies going forward, aren't conducive to reviving growth. US Economists just this week reduced GDP to minus 2% for `09 and 2010 growth from 3% to 1.2%...me thinks they are still way, way too optimistic!
Nobody today knows what the effects of so much loss of wealth, spread across so many people in every sector, will do to the economy longer-term....and from my standpoint, I see the glass is half empty for the country and personally.
I feel for the older Boomers who had done the right thing and saved but now, will have to cut back consumption, by a lot, and save even more in their last few working years.
Middle Boomers like me who had also saved, will cut back consumption some and invest far more conservatively.
So, which demographic group is going to pick up the slack? The Gubbers can print money only for so long.
BTW, China is spending $500 billion of its reserves stimulating its domestic economy and its surplus ain't what it used to be....I see no way they carry our debt!
Posted by Happy at 02/26/2009 @ 10:25pm
Posted by Happy at 02/26/2009 @ 10:25pm |
Sorry, HAPPY...again you're the last Rightie on this board to discuss deficits and debt.
Under questioning several months back (maybe a year now) you said you were relatively unconcerned with them...in fact, noted we could simply "wipe away all our foreign debt if we wanted to."
That's because it was debt going to YOUR pet projects...i.e. tax cuts and the Iraq War.
Also, unfortunately for you, in his budget released today Obama IS showing he's going to pay down the debt by....duh-duh-duhhhhh...raising taxes on the rich.
He goes upto 39.4%....now what is so interesting about that figure?
It's STILL 10.6% LESS than the top marginal rate at the start of the "Reagan recovery" 1983-1984.
He's also going to start ending those disasterous wars which YOUR man Dubya and his friends NEVER put on the budget....honest chaps that they were.
Posted by Mask at 02/26/2009 @ 10:34pm
Posted by Mask at 02/26/2009 @ 10:34pm
A $200~$300 billion deficit, mostly war and Homeland Security related, vs. a TRILLION $$ deficit, with built-in permanency to millions IN THE US,,,,are entirely different animal.
Like I said a day or two ago, time is the Repubs' friend!
You also recycle Reagan's top marginal rate being high (vs. today) but you didn't live through that period. I did!
While I didn't make enough money then, I was well aware of the huge smorgasboard of tax shelters that were `hot' and very well subscribed! In fact, my first employer after getting the MBA, was raising some of its funds, from such `investments'!
As Magic raises the rates, watch tax revenues drop, even if the economy is NOT tanking! Once them increases are put into law, compensation consultants will really get to work and financial advisors will also look to churn clients' accounts OUT OF IRS' reach!
What is it about what's happening to Cali and New York, the two highest taxed & fiscally the sorriest states, that's hard to understand? People, money & jobs LEAVE!
Posted by Happy at 02/26/2009 @ 11:10pm
1. the moral rot is every bit as evident within the right as the left, with the ruling elite trust fund class as with the illegitimate baby factory classes...
2. ... i have been horrified and dismayed at the rise of arrogant fundamentalist, politicized, christianity under the republicans' rise and fall...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/26/2009 @ 6:39pm
1. The only one around here with a trust fund is KVH. The pro-business repubs don't have trust funds. Mom and dad probably paid for college (a head start) but that's it.
2. I think you have a distorted picture of Repub's religion. Are all artists Warhol or Robert Maplethorpe? No, they'er just the most famous. Are all Christians like Swaggert or Robertson (or the Pope)? No, they're just the most famous. Yeah, you've got your pockets of snake-handlers here and there, but they are by no means representative.
Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 02/27/2009 @ 07:40am
Did anybody else notice how subdued George Will looked last week on Stephaluffigus's talking head show? He was up against a couple of economists that saw tis meltdown coming. When you are getting your ideology trundled about by Krugman, you know your in trouble.
Posted by crabwalk at 02/26/2009 @ 6:59pm
Whining that "the Republicans are ruining everything" doesn't count as a prediction.
Show me the column where Krugman cited weak loan standards as the impetus for a global contagion and you might have something. As it stands, he's as accurate as every Dem politician in the last 8 years.
Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 02/27/2009 @ 07:45am
It's STILL 10.6% LESS than the top marginal rate at the start of the "Reagan recovery" 1983-1984.
Posted by Mask at 02/26/2009 @ 10:34pm
Sorry to get all math mathematical on you, but you stubbornly refuse to consider slope along with position.
Going to 40% from 50% makes the economy grow faster. Going to 40% from 30% makes the economy grow slower.
That was Castro's problem. He didn't care about economic growth, So in 1959, every Cuban had the basic necessities to live a 1959 lifestyle. Unfortunately, in 2008 every Cuban has the basic necessities to live a 1959 lifestyle.
Too much collectivism completely destroy economic growth. You can handle debt if it is an investment to grow your wealth (like taking a loan for college). You can't handle debt if you just piss the money away on consumption (a loan to go on spring break).
Posted by Darin_the_Big_Fat_Troll at 02/27/2009 @ 08:05am
Posted by Happy at 02/26/2009 @ 11:10pm
1. "I used to get concerned when deficits were running in the tens of billions....I was young.....didn't realize how confidence in America was so powerful in the world and we can export US dollars that cost next-to-nothing and roll them over and over and over....
IF the US ever decides to be unethical, it can wipe away all foreign-held debt....that's a nuclear option surely tucked deep inside some `Emergency Plan' somewhere!"----Posted by HAPPY 09/11/2007 @ 10:22pm
2. "Like I said a day or two ago, time is the Repubs' friend!"....but given FORTY PERCENT of the Omnibus Spending Bill was for THEM....what credibility do they have when that "time" comes?
3. To Darin TT as well...again,
Why is it the rich were able to create jobs at a 50% personal income tax rate...but WON'T be able to with a 39.4% rate?
Posted by Mask at 02/27/2009 @ 09:10am
Oh, and Darin....please, please, please, please...do not read this article-
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0301.green.html
Your heart might be crushed when you get to the line-
"Faced with looming deficits, Reagan raised taxes again in 1983 with a gasoline tax and once more in 1984, this time by $50 billion over three years, mainly through closing tax loopholes for business."
Posted by Mask at 02/27/2009 @ 09:26am
Q: Is China a perfect utopia regarding human rights? A: Hardly. Q: Is it a whole lot better than it was 5,10,15 years ago? A: Undoubtedly
Why do you think that is? It occurred because of much more interaction with the Western World. The Chinese - like most people - do not take kindly to being lectured by people outside their culture. Who does? But they watch, and they learn, and they change because - in the long run - they will be better off and they know it. They'll do it their way - and over time their way will look more like our way.
Posted by bpickard at 03/03/2009 @ 12:07pm