Blue-Dog Leaders Revolt Against Bold Stimulus

posted by John Nichols on 02/05/2009 @ 5:41pm

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Barack Obama got a Blue Dog problem.

And it could pose a serious threat to his ability to enact a stimulus plan that is bold enough to respond to the economic meltdown.

Key leaders of the "Blue Dog Coalition" that represents the conservative wing of the House Democratic Caucus are now openly revolting against the stimulus package's spending proposals -- a stance that dramatically strengthens the hand of Republicans who, for obvious partisan reasons, hope to undermine Obama's popular appeal and ability to move on critical economic issues.

The Blue Dog Coalition, which claims forty-seven House members, went public with its opposition to elements of the plan that Obama and Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-California, are supposed to be promoting in a letter sent Thursday to the speaker.

For Obama, the positioning of the Blue Dogs represents a serious political challenge at a point when he is still dealing with the fallout from the withdrawal of Secretary of Health and Human Services nominee Tom Daschle and other challenges relating to Cabinet picks.

That challenge involves, at core, the matter of whether he can hold together the electoral coalition that gave him the Democratic nomination and the presidency.

As a candidate, Obama built a remarkable coalition when he was seeking the Democratic nod, cobbling together endorsements from key players in his party's liberal, moderate and conservative wings.

Among his early and enthusiastic supporters were a number of so-called "Blue Dog" Democrats, who are relatively conservative representatives mostly from southern and rural western districts that might otherwise elect Republicans -- and who adjust their policies accordingly.

During the campaign, Obama's Blue-Dog supporters were generally more loyal to the man -- who many of them preferred as a fresh alternative to the woman Obama beat for the nomination, Hillary Clinton -- than to the economic agenda that the candidate outlined in his campaign speeches.

Therein lies what may turn out to be the greatest challenge for President Obama and mainstream Democrats as they seek quick approval for a stimulus plan that is unlikely to win substantial (or, perhaps, any) Republican support.

When the House voted on its version of the stimulus plan, the Republican caucus was unified in its opposition. Joining the Republicans in voting "no" were eleven Democrats, almost all of them Blue Dogs. After the vote, at least one of the Blue Dogs who opposed it, Tennessee Congressman Jim Cooper, tried to suggest that the Obama administration had quietly encouraged opposition to the $819 billion economic stimulus plan. "Well, I probably shouldn't tell you this, but I actually got some quiet encouragement from the Obama folks for what I'm doing," Cooper claimed in a radio interview. "They know it's a messy bill and they wanted a clean bill. Now, I got in terrible trouble with our leadership because they don't care what's in the bill, they just want it to pass and they want it to be unanimous."

The fact is that, if Obama or any of his "folks" are encouraging Democrats to divide with regard to the stimulus, they are playing with political fire.

The stimulus package will be the defining initiative of Obama's first 100 days, and if he cannot get it passed quickly and with most of the initiatives he is supporting included, it will be a serious setback.

Obama seems to recognize this. He has indicated that he is working with Pelosi -- not against her -- and he has said that passing the stimulus plan is an urgent priority.

"The time for talk is over, the time for action is now," says the president.

Unfortunately, key Blue Dogs are no longer on board.

Thursday's letter from leaders of the coalition called on Pelosi and House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Maryland, to abandon their support for an ambitious stimulus and its spending priorities.

Breaking with the House Democratic leadership and throwing their support behind a push by conservative senators for a bill with less spending, the letter from Blue Dog leader Stephanie Herseth Sandlin, D-South Dakota, and other key leaders of the coalition said of the proposed cuts in stimulus spending: "We believe that's a highly worthwhile goal, and that there are additional provisions that would be better left for consideration in regular order."

It is not clear whether all forty-seven Blue Dogs are signaling that they will oppose the next version of the stimulus package that comes before the House -- where another vote is now all but certain. Many members of the coalition are Blue Dogs "in name only" -- joining for image purposes rather than out of a sincere commitment to the group's stated agenda. Others (such as Californian Jane Harmon) represent districts that voted overwhelmingly for Obama or that are really hurting (such as Maine's Mike Michaud).

But this letter represents a serious new challenge for Obama.

The president, who has hoped to sign a stimulus package by President's Day, is looking at a situation where a divided Democratic caucus House and united Republican opposition, along with splits between the House and Senate Democrats, threaten to make a mockery of his suggestion that action is urgent and necessary.

Comments (135)

Isn't this about the time that the congressional Democratic leadership is supposed to start busting balls...er...heads?

Oops.....who's in charge of the House Dems again?!

Oh well, better luck next time --whenever that might be.

Posted by b_kool_66 at 02/05/2009 @ 5:54pm
Sink the Porkulus Bill!

Posted by pontificus at 02/05/2009 @ 5:57pm
Looks like some of those BDDs took a good hard look at that bill and didn't like what they saw.

Posted by ACook at 02/05/2009 @ 6:12pm
You mean some of these guy may have actualy...READ the bill and what they found made them think?

Or at least hungry enough to order out for..pork ribs to eat as they read..

Kill this bill.

Oh, yeah...Obama...welcome to the real world and the MSM can carry your water here.

Posted by YourJomamma at 02/05/2009 @ 6:19pm
Obama has to grow a pair. The Rethugs want nothing more than to weaken the Pres. asap. They are already planning their comeback in 2010. Meanwhile, the country burns. O should watch his back. There are plenty of pols in D.C. who would relish playing Brutus to Obama's Caesar.

Posted by k20thmaine at 02/05/2009 @ 6:24pm
>>>"Well, I probably shouldn't tell you this, but I actually got some quiet encouragement from the Obama folks for what I'm doing,"<<<

I don't know what Cooper is smoking but Obama has made passing the stimulus bill a priority and does NOT want the bill delayed because it may include some pet projects of some Democrats.

While it is true that some projects may be pet projects, the litmus test is whether they create jobs and other economic activity that stimulates the economy.

Blue dog or not, if Democrats try to defeat the stimulus by parroting Republican attacks, it only hurts them in the end by weakening a Democratic president.

Republicans (and Blue dogs) have NO real alternative to the stimulus but the failed economic policies of the Bush Administration, in which untied tax cuts were thought to "invisibly" stimulate the economy. As Citibank has reminded us with their purchase of corporate jets from France, the extra money corporations have to spend based on government bailouts or tax cuts does NOT "automatically" lead to economic activity that benefits this country.

Posted by Metteyya at 02/05/2009 @ 6:28pm
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/05/2009 @ 6:19pm

"Oh, yeah...Obama...welcome to the real world and the MSM can carry your water here."

I particularly liked his "Hurry up! Sign it! We don't have time for you to read it! Hurry hurry hurreeeeee.....!

Posted by pontificus at 02/05/2009 @ 6:30pm
I wonder what would happen if the govt announced that instead of increasing spend they were going to cut it..drasticaly...

and cut taxes for business and tax payers...those who actually paid taxes get a break for a change...

and no bail outs..

Posted by YourJomamma at 02/05/2009 @ 6:44pm
>>>I wonder what would happen if the govt announced that instead of increasing spend they were going to cut it..drasticaly...

and cut taxes for business and tax payers...those who actually paid taxes get a break for a change...

and no bail outs..

Posted by YourJomamma at 02/05/2009 @ 6:44pm<<<

More of the same Bush failed economic policies that got us into this mess!

For every corporation that wants a tax break, I would tie this to hiring half of the workers they laid off in the last two years, or building a new manufacturing plant, or opening up a new branch, or "some" economic activity that justifies the tax cut.

No more "unconditional" tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy!

Posted by Metteyya at 02/05/2009 @ 7:00pm
The opposition to this bill reflects the stark reality that this nation does not have what it takes to avoid the downward spiral into a depression at least equal to, and possibly worse than, the Great Depression. This downward spiral cannot be reversed without MASSIVE government intervention with both "printed money" not borrowed money) and job creating initiatives that create national wealth. The printed money needs to be legitimized through PRODUCTIVE wage work. That money will circulate, restore economic activity, and generate the tax revenue necessary to avoid inflation. In addition to consumer spending, that money will also be saved, deposited in banks, and invested thereby re-energizing the financial system. We need to avoid "giving" printed money to either banks or individuals. It needs to be INVESTED productively. We need a "command economy" at least for a period of time - and that is the RUB. There is NO SUPPORT for even a temporary command economy, for fear that it will become permanent.

Sadly, I believe we will have to experience the misery of a REAL Depression for at least a few years before enough realize that there is no alternative to a command economy - at least for a time.

And if the conservatives had any brains they would realize that the longer the Depression, the more likely the command economy will become permanent.

Posted by johnny at 02/05/2009 @ 7:05pm
NICHOLS: "But this letter represents a serious new challenge for Obama."

Come on, John! For The Messiah, how can a mere "letter" be a challenge?

He should invite the Dogs in, or better, do a `Dinner' at Blue Dog leader Stephanie Herseth Sandlin's home and presto, challenge over!

I never bought into the mantra that BHO is all that smart....his very late (by 20 years) recognition of Rev. Wright's `politics' said it all to me!

Now we've seen the exact same thing with Daschle & Geithner--though one is the Treasury Sec., he is a wounded duck with a string so short, he'll be among the first two to go--"absolutely" standing by someone poinsonous just before throwing him under the bus....damn, ALL truly smart people would've done immediately when the scope of problems emerge in full public view.

Magic's lack of good judgment is not his fault per se, he just isn't that smart....certainly above average but not nearly smart enough to handle the world as it is today.

He is the POTUS because of his handlers, and specifically whoever decided to focus on the early caucus states, and of course, his Bi-Racial makeup.

Posted by Happy at 02/05/2009 @ 7:22pm
"and cut taxes for business and tax payers...those who actually paid taxes get a break for a change..."

we tried that? remember?

didn't work.

Posted by darladoon at 02/05/2009 @ 7:27pm
I tell you what - it is encouraging to see Republicans act like Republicans. They are doing what they are suppose to be doing. BO wants partisan support on pork - fat chance. Shout out to Blue -Dogs Dems too.

Let BO squeak this one by in the Senate, and then he can take credit for it.

What's the matter BO.....no courage in your convictions that this bill is absolutely, positively, sky is falling, world is going to end tomorrow, gotta do it now, necessary to be passed right away?

Posted by OneVote at 02/05/2009 @ 7:41pm
I never bought into the mantra that BHO is all that smart....

Posted by Happy at 02/05/2009 @ 7:22pm | ignore this person | warn this person

Check out Hardball with Chris Matthews today. Matthews was wondering why BO couldn't make a few simple comments supporting his stimulus bill without aid of his trusted friend and companion the teleprompter. Speaking from the heart, with knowledge and conviction? Not.

Matthews laid it on thick. In closing, Matthews wondered if BO talked to his family with the aid of a teleprompter as well. Ouuuuccchhhhh!

Posted by OneVote at 02/05/2009 @ 7:47pm
Is this Blog on "The Nation" website?

Or did I accidentally get to the "Republican Review".

Oh well... regardless of your political affiliation Please go to economy.com -- the analysis is very thorough.

One point blows the "no tax cut for low earners" mantra. Note: These people DO work, they simply get their income tax contributions back via the tax return...they are NOT welfare recipients as it has been widely and incorrectly presented.

These are the people that are most likely to spend the money they get. Spending by individuals is essential to get the economy moving. Think of it... spending by me is buying to you, the retailer/ manufacturer / service provider...etc.

Then you make more and have to buy more to do that... and so on and so on.

Spending IS Stimulus...

Posted by AloeVera at 02/05/2009 @ 8:06pm
Wow, the minority party and its friends is going to hamstring the Federal attempt to jumpstart the economy, intended to reduce the downside of one of the worst modern recessions for millions and millions of people. God, who would have thought supposed leaders could be so colossally irresponsible or corrupt.

Posted by syfriendly at 02/05/2009 @ 8:43pm
Time for Obama to tell the any opposers to get out of his way and get that bill passed. All this nicey, nicey with the Repubs is over and they have had long enough..just how much clout do they think they have exactly? Still the same old obstructionists it's time for them to get lost and Obama do what needs to be done for the good of the country. Let them huff and puff as they are all full of hot air like their talk radio mentor Limbaugh, their days of hogging the show are over.

Posted by Caj at 02/05/2009 @ 9:02pm
Posted by Happy at 02/05/2009 @ 7:22pm

Thank you Happy ... you, after everything stated by you in regards to the economy being absolutely wrong ... here you are doing a bad "Mask," and making assertions as to another human being's intellect.

Twas enough to make my day.

Thanks.

Posted by V at 02/05/2009 @ 9:38pm
Again, I just ask our right-wing friends...HAPP, PONTI, MAASCH, even ACOOK...

So you don't think a stimulus bill is going to pass?

(Hint-Here's where you say "I think SOMETHING will pass...just not ALL that Pelosi and Reid wanted!"....and you'll count 80% lost as a "victory")

Posted by Mask at 02/05/2009 @ 9:54pm
Posted by Mask at 02/05/2009 @ 9:54pm

Obviously SOMETHING will pass - but hopefully it won't be the Porkapalooza Bill. The country may need a short-term stimulus to address the housing and credit situation, but we don't need an orgy of spending on Democratic payoffs and boondoggles, especially not those that won't even kick in for 2 years. If the Republicans can limit the damage the big-spenders want so badly, that's the best we can hope for.

And just today, Debbie Stabenow vowed that she would hold hearings intended to give government control over what's broadcast on talk radio. Funny how increased government control in some area always seems to be the goal on the liberal agenda. It's going to be an interesting 4 years.

Posted by pontificus at 02/05/2009 @ 10:03pm
Matthews laid it on thick. In closing, Matthews wondered if BO talked to his family with the aid of a teleprompter as well. Ouuuuccchhhhh!

Posted by OneVote at 02/05/2009 @ 7:47pm

THAT Matthews??? Wow! Think maybe he's turning into one of them `bitter newscasters clinging to their microphones', now that the tingles are gone...LOL! I almost have to see it to believe it. Thanks!

BTW, I don't have cable or satellite.....and yes, I've got the two converter coupons quite a while ago for my 4 analog TVs...one RCA, vintage 1980, will be retired when The Switch is made....and I bought, without ANY subsidy, a third converter...imagine that!

Posted by Happy at 02/05/2009 @ 10:04pm
Bush has to grow a pair. The Deamoncrats want nothing more than to weaken the Pres. asap. They are already planning their comeback in 2008. Meanwhile, the country burns. W should watch his back. There are plenty of pols in D.C. who would relish playing Brutus to Bush's Caesar.

Posted by k20thmaine at 02/05/2005 6:24pm

Posted by freiheit1 at 02/05/2009 @ 10:08pm
He is the POTUS because of his handlers, and specifically whoever decided to focus on the early caucus states, and of course, his Bi-Racial makeup.

Posted by Happy at 02/05/2009 @ 7:22pm

he's a mulatto, you know.

HE'S FATHERED BLACK CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by frosty zoom at 02/05/2009 @ 10:08pm
"and cut taxes for business and tax payers...those who actually paid taxes get a break for a change..."

we tried that? remember?

didn't work.

Posted by darladoon at 02/05/2009 @ 7:27pm

I wonder if the democrats paid taxes too... Nah, we can't appoint 'em all to the cabinet.

Posted by freiheit1 at 02/05/2009 @ 10:10pm
"I wonder what would happen if the govt announced that instead of increasing spend they were going to cut it..drasticaly... and cut taxes for business and tax payers...those who actually paid taxes get a break for a change... and no bail outs.."

Well, things would be at least twice as worse as they are now since such policies got us here. But thanks for giving us a textbook example of insanity.

Posted by onthehelm at 02/05/2009 @ 10:11pm
hey, happy.

send me one of them converter box coupons. i've got a great old t.v. from the seventies which i'll miss because i can get sanford and son and good times over the air.

but we ain't getting no coupons here, so............

Posted by frosty zoom at 02/05/2009 @ 10:12pm
ARF!

Posted by frosty zoom at 02/05/2009 @ 10:12pm
So you don't think a stimulus bill is going to pass?

Posted by Mask at 02/05/2009 @ 9:54pm

That's right, I don't think a stimulus bill will be passed....a Pork Bill? Rather likely!

The solutions to the ideological battle is really simple, but Magic isn't any smarter than Pelosi or Reid.

Here's how to proceed:

There is general agreement on TRUE stimulative measures...such as spending for infrastructures. Well, then let's pass that pronto and let the project planning be underway so that actual buying of steel, concrete, hiring and turning of the shovels can begin by 3rd or 4th quarter.

Next, tackle extended benefits to the unemployed....sliding scale (based on time) of extended weekly benefits so as to NOT lead folks to try to use fully, the extended benefits...ie, they shouldn't be too picky on jobs that are out there.

The rest of the Pork bill is to be canned and taken up as your side's agenda afte the 100 days....the ill will in the current process can be boiled down to your saying you can't "waste" this crisis!

Posted by Happy at 02/05/2009 @ 10:13pm
Posted by onthehelm at 02/05/2009 @ 10:11pm

And our continuing to provide heroin to our heroin addict financial system is not "twice as worse"? Do you even know what's going on onthehelm?

We aren't changing anything are we? I think we should. You are apparently fully bought into the too big to fail scam.

Posted by freiheit1 at 02/05/2009 @ 10:14pm
Wow, the minority party and its friends is going to hamstring the Federal attempt to jumpstart the economy, intended to reduce the downside of one of the worst modern recessions for millions and millions of people. God, who would have thought supposed leaders could be so colossally irresponsible or corrupt. Posted by syfriendly at 02/05/2009 @ 8:43pm

Maybe they actually read the bill. Did you? Maybe it is a stinker.

Posted by twillie at 02/05/2009 @ 10:14pm
Two questions, PONTI-

If "SOMETHING" will pass, will it be 10% of the present bill?....20%....30%....50%....75%....80%....90?

And will you declare "you won the war"?

and #2...since you left the other thread...again-

Bill Gates forced to personally pay an extra million to the IRS, he's going not only not hire more folks at MS, he's going to CUT jobs....out of spite or something???----Posted by Mask at 02/05/2009 @ 1:45pm

Posted by Mask at 02/05/2009 @ 10:15pm
Spending IS Stimulus..............

repeat

Spending IS Stimulus.

If you choose to support the conservative mind set... think upon the two Stimulus efforts done under GW Bush. They did include tax cuts and tax rebates ... (follow, here's the point)... with an assumption "money in the pocket of these taxpayers will be money SPENT"... but it didn't work because though the low income people DID spend, [wealthier] people who didn't get the rebates, at the same time were reacting to economic markers by NOT spending.

Tax cuts' usefulness is to encourage spending. Often the taxpayer/recipient just doesn't play along. This is indicated currently by all markers. Fear is driving a "crisis of confidence". Tax cuts will not work NOW.

Hence ... Spending. Direct spending.

What is being called "pork" in the ARR Act... really is not. It's not special interest earmarks (even John McCain grudgingly admitted that... though he HAD to throw in a weak and snarky caveat). It's not pork, it is specific spending that has a more limited impact and often is intended to be more like a "second wave" in order to KEEP the economy moving.

Do yourselves a favor... read up on economics instead of politics. The needs we have NOW are too important for politics.

bye, bye for now

Posted by AloeVera at 02/05/2009 @ 10:29pm
Chinese Investors Looking to Purchase Lady Liberty

Thursday, February 5th, 2009

New York (Xinhua)

Sources within the U.S. National Parks Service have revealed that talks are underway for the sale of New York Harbour's famous Statue of Liberty to a consortium of Chinese investors.

"I believe they plan on opening a bubble tea shoppe in the torch" an anonymous source told Xinhua.

http://www.rubberbuck.con/china_to_revamp_liberty.html

Posted by frosty zoom at 02/05/2009 @ 10:46pm
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn312/

Paul_H_Rosenberg/Zindi-tbl-2-expanded.jpg

excellent summary of impact of differing "stimulate us" strategies.

seriously.

Posted by frosty zoom at 02/05/2009 @ 10:54pm
Aloe wants economics, well what do economists have to say about the freight trains of porkulus heading our way?

Posted by comancheamerican at 02/05/2009 @ 10:57pm
"Obama and his confidants view this "crisis" with eager anticipation as an opportunity to actualize their dreams for government to assume its rightful place as Master of the Universe and choreograph the economy on a super-macro level.

Even the bipartisan Congressional Budget Office has revealed Obama's bill is largely not stimulative. It's more accurate to describe it as a grandiose slush fund for his preferred projects, support groups and constituencies on the spending side and a massive redistribution of income on the tax side.

When the bill is stripped of its rhetorical disguise, we see it's a license for government to shackle the invisible hand of the free market and appoint itself manager of the gross domestic product according to the superior wisdom of central planners.

Why do you think the Obamites are constantly blaming market excesses, greed and Wall Street for our financial problems, when most of the blame lies with politicians themselves? Why do you think they trash talk the economy every day, when they know that such pessimism from "on high" will cause real economic damage, considering that much of the spending downturn is related to a crisis in consumer confidence? The answer is that they need us in panic mode -- the only mindset likely to divorce us from our ordinary walking-around sense and make us receptive to the big-government remedies they're salivating to employ.

Note that President Obama doesn't even pay lip service to making his interventionist plans short-lived. And by their terms, it's impossible they could be. This is an effort to restructure our economy radically toward the type of command and control model that has accompanied tyrannical regimes throughout history."

Yea, we KNOW exactly what this PORKULIS spending bill

Posted by comancheamerican at 02/05/2009 @ 10:57pm
The most intresting prospect about this whole Porkulus package is that there may finally be a gleamer of intelligence and guts among "blue dog" democrats! This would be a welcome change from the cultists of Obamanation!

Posted by comancheamerican at 02/05/2009 @ 11:15pm
Posted by Mask at 02/05/2009 @ 10:15pm

"If "SOMETHING" will pass, will it be 10% of the present bill?....20%....30%....50%....75%....80%....90?"

I have no idea. Most likely, he'll pick off a few RINO's and spend 800 billion dollars we don't have on programs we don't need. And then when it doesn't work, he'll look to do the same thing all over again. The man has utterly no clue.

"And will you declare "you won the war"?"

We all lost the day the America people became stupid enough to elect Obama. We're just quibbling over the details now.

"Bill Gates forced to personally pay an extra million to the IRS, he's going not only not hire more folks at MS, he's going to CUT jobs....out of spite or something???----Posted by Mask at 02/05/2009 @ 1:45pm"

He's already cutting jobs my friend. Didn't you see the news? And he won't be re-hiring them until the economy recovers - something which will not happen so long as 'spending - any spending' is the policy of this government. As Morgenthau said 8 years into the great depression - spending only made them more in debt and no better off. Looks like we'll all learn THAT lesson again.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10148168-56.html

Posted by pontificus at 02/05/2009 @ 11:16pm
you don't think a stimulus bill is going to pass?

(Hint-Here's where you say "I think SOMETHING will pass...just not ALL that Pelosi and Reid wanted!"....and you'll count 80% lost as a "victory")

Posted by Mask at 02/05/2009 @ 9:54pm | ignore this person | warn this person

Yes.

Hint:

I have said so for days. I hope no repubs sign on.

Posted by YourJomamma at 02/05/2009 @ 11:40pm
send me one of them converter box coupons. i've got a great old t.v. from the seventies which i'll miss because i can get sanford and son and good times over the air.

but we ain't getting no coupons here, so............

Posted by frosty zoom at 02/05/2009 @ 10:12pm

I'm shocked at Canada! Free healthcare but NO subsidized converter boxes....time to hit the streets & protest!

Today's guest host for Rush, took a hammer to the Pork Bill where some additonal gazilions is slated for MORE converter coupons. Seems that there are still folks that got caught by this `surprise' and when they applied, the coupons ran out.

Seems that lots of folks who did NOT need them, that's a lot of smart folks, applied for the coupons anyway and turned around selling them on eBay at a discount to the $40 face value! I tip my hats to those folks.....a bit of work to get the coupons and deal w/eBay...but basically money raining from the sky....a very, very good example of how our pols blow public money!

Posted by Happy at 02/05/2009 @ 11:46pm
Some fascinating polling results from Rasmussen:

1) The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 37% favor the legislation, 43% are opposed, and 20% are not sure.Two weeks ago, 45% supported the plan. Last week, 42% supported it.

2) Opposition has grown from 34% two weeks ago to 39% last week and 43% today. Sixty-four percent (64%) of Democrats still support the plan. That figure is down from 74% a week ago. Just 13% of Republicans and 27% of those not affiliated with either major party agree.

3) Seventy-two percent (72%) of Republicans oppose the plan along with 50% of unaffiliated voters and 16% of Democrats.

4) Despite the declining support, 78% say it is at least somewhat likely that the economic recovery package proposed by PresidentObama and congressional Democrats will become law during Obama's first 100 days in office. That figure includes 36% who say passage is Very Likely. That latter figure is down significantly from a week ago when 52% said passage of the legislation was Very Likely.

5) A stimulus plan that includes only tax cuts is now more popular than the economic recovery plan being considered in Congress. Forty-five percent (45%) favor a tax-cut only plan while 34% are opposed.

Me: Whatever the economic impact of the Obama plan, it is not a confidence builder. And that is a huge problem.

Wonder why Hsubfools is not here running up the numbers about how great voters feel about the Porkulus package and how Undemocrat congressmen shouldn't worry what citizens think of the Porktrain headed their way?

Posted by comancheamerican at 02/05/2009 @ 11:50pm
ALL STIMULOUS IS DIFFERENT.Some moves with faster volicity.Directly increasing the payrolls of the poorest 80% will generate higher volicity money then tax breaks to the top 5%.

Posted by worker-bee at 02/05/2009 @ 11:52pm
Posted by worker-bee at 02/05/2009 @ 11:52pm | ignore this person | warn this person

So show us WHERE in the bill it increases the payrolls of the poorest 80% since NOONE else has found that?

Posted by comancheamerican at 02/06/2009 @ 12:03am
Posted by comancheamerican at 02/05/2009 @ 11:50pm

Funny how if you add up all the spending in the stimulus bill that has been specifically tagged as "pork" by the repugs or even some democrats it adds up to about 1% of the total package.

So now I suppose we have the 1% threshold as the barometer for whether on not an entire bill is "Porculus". Go figure..

Posted by chaoszen at 02/06/2009 @ 12:11am
Wonder why Hsubfools is not here running up the numbers about how great voters feel about the Porkulus package and how Undemocrat congressmen shouldn't worry what citizens think of the Porktrain headed their way?

Posted by comancheamerican at 02/05/2009 @ 11:50pm

I asked him yesterday...he said the public wanted the package 70% or so favorable...go figure.

Posted by YourJomamma at 02/06/2009 @ 12:12am
And that 1% figure is if you add things back that have already been cut from the bill.

Posted by chaoszen at 02/06/2009 @ 12:13am
Chaos,

1%? ..maybe you should look at the lists again as to where the money is going..and how long it will take....

Posted by YourJomamma at 02/06/2009 @ 12:14am
So, Where's the Pork??

Posted by chaoszen at 02/06/2009 @ 12:16am
Posted by comancheamerican at 02/05/2009 @ 10:57pm

I think that Nobel Laureate Krugman is saying something along the lines of: "Fire up the grill and fetch the barbeque sauce."

Clearly a stimulus package at home for creating jobs and putting earned money back into the pockets of the 9% and growing unemployed Americans can't compare to pissing trillions down a banking rathole with no end in sight.

I lay awake nights worrying whether our Wall Street Bankers will have a roof over their heads and porridge on the table in the morning.

Glad to know where our priorities should lie. Thanks for the edification.

Posted by canaarak at 02/06/2009 @ 12:18am
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/06/2009 @ 12:14am |

I looked at all the portions of the bill that I could find that anyone specifically tagged as "pork" and when you add up the spending for each one it comes out to roughly 1% of the total package. Unless I missed something really huge. And I don't believe I did.

Posted by chaoszen at 02/06/2009 @ 12:19am
Posted by comancheamerican at 02/06/2009 @ 12:03am

The poorest 80% don't have payrolls by and large. 9% of them don't even have paychecks.

Posted by canaarak at 02/06/2009 @ 12:24am
Ask workerbee who posted it! I tried, but no one is home!

Posted by comancheamerican at 02/06/2009 @ 12:36am
There are over 300 economists of remarkable stature around this nation that said that increased government spending doesn't improve economic productivity or economic performance in our nation including three Nobel Prize winners.

What the American people know is allowing them to keep more of their own money and putting appropriate incentives in place for businesses who are the job creators in this country is the answer. If borrowing and spending would have gotten us out of the challenge that we're in right now we would have been out of it long ago. We've done a lot of borrowing and spending. Somehow, I don't think Obamanation or any Undemocrat congressman are economic geniuses!

There guys don't even know how to figure their own income taxes and certainly don't even seem to worry about paying them!

Posted by comancheamerican at 02/06/2009 @ 12:44am
You're right. That's what I get for reading the posts from the bottom up. Thought it was yours. My bad.

Posted by canaarak at 02/06/2009 @ 12:44am
NRO has examples of 50 things in the Porkulus bill that all conservatives, Republicans, and now the blue dog democrats who are slowly waking up find untenantable!

Posted by comancheamerican at 02/06/2009 @ 12:49am
Summary: $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts $380 million in the Senate bill for the Women, Infants and Children program $300 million for grants to combat violence against women $2 billion for federal child-care block grants $6 billion for university building projects $15 billion for boosting Pell Grant college scholarships $4 billion for job-training programs, including $1.2 billion for "youths" up to the age of 24 $1 billion for community-development block grants $4.2 billion for "neighborhood stabilization activities" $15 billion for business-loss carry-backs $145 billion for "Making Work Pay" tax credits $83 billion for the earned income credit $650 million for digital-TV coupons; $90 million to educate "vulnerable populations" $150 million for the Smithsonian $34 million to renovate the Department of Commerce headquarters $500 million for improvement projects for National Institutes of Health facilities $44 million for repairs to Department of Agriculture headquarters $350 million for Agriculture Department computers $88 million to help move the Public Health Service into a new building $448 million for constructing a new Homeland Security Department headquarters $600 million to convert the federal auto fleet to hybrids $450 million for NASA (carve-out for "climate-research missions") $600 million for NOAA (carve-out for "climate modeling") $1 billion for the Census Bureau $89 billion for Medicaid $30 billion for COBRA insurance extension $36 billion for expanded unemployment benefits $20 billion for food stamps $4.5 billion for U.S. Army Corps of Engineers $850 million for Amtrak $87 million for a polar icebreaking ship $1.7 billion for the National Park System $55 million for Historic Preservation Fund

Posted by comancheamerican at 02/06/2009 @ 01:02am
$7.6 billion for "rural community advancement programs" $150 million for agricultural-commodity purchases $150 million for "producers of livestock, honeybees, and farm-raised fish" $2 billion for renewable-energy research ($400 million for global-warming research) $2 billion for a "clean coal" power plant in Illinois $6.2 billion for the Weatherization Assistance Program $3.5 billion for energy-efficiency and conservation block grants $3.4 billion for the State Energy Program $200 million for state and local electric-transport projects $300 million for energy-efficient-appliance rebate programs $400 million for hybrid cars for state and local governments $1 billion for the manufacturing of advanced batteries $1.5 billion for green-technology loan guarantees $8 billion for innovative-technology loan-guarantee program $2.4 billion for carbon-capture demonstration projects $4.5 billion for electricity grid $79 billion for state fiscal stabilization fund.

The analysis of all of these finds little in the way of jobs present or near future!

Posted by comancheamerican at 02/06/2009 @ 01:06am
Much of what you have listed would fall broadly under infrastructure. No one is contesting infrastructure spending on the whole. I haven't seen many of the things you listed as having been tagged as "pork" by any legislators. And many of those projects would provide jobs and economic stimulus.

Economic recovery does not happen overnight after all it took all these years from Reagan up to now to screw it all up. There is no magic pill. And tax cuts have already been proven to be a leading cause of the trouble we are in. But the repugs keep reciting the same old mantra. Remindes me of the definition of insanity. Trying the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.

Posted by chaoszen at 02/06/2009 @ 01:33am
Posted by comancheamerican at 02/06/2009 @ 01:06am

You don't do yourself any favors by quoting anything from the National Review. Puts a huge strain on your credibility. Only the real freaky deekies put any stock in that rag. Most regular republicans I know hold their nose when they hear anyone mentioning the National Review..

Posted by chaoszen at 02/06/2009 @ 01:39am
Posted by chaoszen at 02/06/2009 @ 01:33am | ignore this person | warn this person Posted by chaoszen at 02/06/2009 @ 01:39am | ignore this person | warn this person

Wish list of leftwing "entitlement programs" are NOT infrastructure, and produce no meaningful economic recovery or jobs. Economic recovery can happen overnight when it is a matter of consumer confidence which has been depressed by leftist political tactics supported by a collaborating liberal MSM as it is now.

You can decry sourses all you wish but the fact remains a simple reading of the bill which is being more widely done is what is convincing EVERYONE how POOR a Porkulus this bill really is! Economist left and right are holding their noses!

Posted by comancheamerican at 02/06/2009 @ 02:46am
Posted by comancheamerican at 02/06/2009 @ 02:46am

"$6 billion for university building projects"

This (the above) as lead in to the following was just too funny ... and revealing.

"Wish list of leftwing "entitlement programs" are NOT infrastructure, and produce no meaningful economic recovery or jobs."

"Economic recovery can happen overnight when it is a matter of consumer confidence"

One can be a confident as one wishes ... (here is just the reflected dysfunctional punditry of the Dubya years, if we would only go shopping ... ).

"has been depressed by leftist political tactics supported by a collaborating liberal MSM as it is now."

Ever notice how it is that those on the "left" when they do speak of it decry the paucity and lack of balanced information, as a rule, but those on the right seemed locked into a kind of Stepford group think regarding the existence of a "liberal MSM(?)," and not only that but a (gee whiz) collaborating one at that? I find that interesting.

The way out is paved with invention, and production. And the most efficient way to do, and augment such production is with a coherent and sound infrastructure.

The "mini me" monetarist dribble in its attempts at passing as sound economic policy can provide but homour as it did above, at best ...

Posted by V at 02/06/2009 @ 08:29am
The Republicans would know all about spending,they have frittered money away over the years and no one batted an eye lid over it. Now all of a sudden they have suddendly found religion and want to stop this package going through because it's too much!!! Give me a break! If it involved tax cut upon tax cut they would be thrilled as that's all they ever want to do and that really helped the country didn't it? They should be renamed The Cuttaxican Party!!!!

Posted by Caj at 02/06/2009 @ 08:35am
And if the conservatives had any brains they would realize that the longer the Depression, the more likely the command economy will become permanent.

Posted by johnny at 02/05/2009 @ 7:05pm | ignore this person | warn this person

pretty much yup...

my magnanimity toward the opposition and those who aid and abet their obstructionist, self aggrandizing, showboating, satano-aynrando ideologizing is about at an end.

if this thing or something very similar does not get passed by next week i say let the senate bastards filibuster and mobilize the groundroots...

start the attack.

run a commercial linking grover norquist's anarchic fantasy some years back of destroying the federal government to the ideology of the obstructionist partisans on the right...maybe link such to the lack of regulation...

you know - one of those commercials where some sarcastic sounding person wonders aloud about the absurdity of those against whom the commercial is directed and procedes to burp up a few informative talking points?

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 08:37am
One can be _as_ confident as one wishes ... it is just that doing so while ones net capacity to produce vanishes, belies an honest belief in magic or a complete ignorance of economic science.

Posted by V at 02/06/2009 @ 08:38am
He's already cutting jobs my friend. Didn't you see the news? And he won't be re-hiring them until the economy recovers -Posted by pontificus at 02/05/2009 @ 11:16pm

Wait a minute, PONTI.

Gates hasn't had his taxes raised "sky high" yet by Obama. And is still under the BUSH/GOP Congress tax rates.

Why is he cutting jobs?!?!?? I thought as long as we kept tax rates low for those top 1%ers....it would "trickle down" and they'd be generating new jobs?!??!?!??

It would be only AFTER Obama and the Deams "soaked the poor rich", that they'd cut jobs and not hire anybody new?!??!?????!??!????????!???!!!!!???

heheh

Posted by Mask at 02/06/2009 @ 08:55am
run a commercial linking grover norquist's anarchic fantasy some years back of destroying the federal government to the ideology of the obstructionist partisans on the right...maybe link such to the lack of regulation...

you know - one of those commercials where some sarcastic sounding person wonders aloud about the absurdity of those against whom the commercial is directed and procedes to burp up a few informative talking points?

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 08:37am | ignore this person | warn this person

really...whereas suggesting such ideology attacking spots a few short years ago would have been laughable considering the state of the ADD-jaywalking-marching moron-popculturally-lobotomized-sily ninny-trivialand national mentality...

i think the time is ripe now. with the marching morons sliding into economic hell and worried not only about where next month's cable bill money is coming from, but if there will even be a job to go to or home to return to...

i think ding dong schwing schwong the former consuming zombie will listen and think...

the mob wants heads on poles. the mob demands villians on which to blame their own misery and stupid choices.

sure, give the marching morons a healthy dose of hellfire and brimstone shame eliciting preaching about personal responsibility, but also give them some faces at which to throw darts...or PBR cans...

DO IT DEMS...THE AGE OF DEXTER IS YOURS. BE THE DEXTER...DO IT. DRIVE THE DAGGER HOME. HURT THEM.

our country's welfare depends on the commitment of righteous wickedness.

the big difference between what i'm suggesting and the repulbicans' gameplan is that...

we don't really have to lie. tell the ugly vicious truth - much more deadly than ugly, vicious lies...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 09:39am
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 09:39am

I love it when you talk dirty.

Posted by Benchrest at 02/06/2009 @ 09:46am
Posted by Benchrest at 02/06/2009 @ 09:46am | ignore this person | warn this person

when i'm good i'm good and when i'm bad i'm better...

lol

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 10:11am
I particularly liked his "Hurry up! Sign it! We don't have time for you to read it! Hurry hurry hurreeeeee.....!

Posted by pontificus at 02/05/2009 @ 6:30pm

Where might he have learned such a tactic?

PATRIOT ACT?

Economic Stimulus bill of 2008?

----

I think it is good that this process is being slowed so that SOME reason can be applied. Let's be realistic, even if this process took 6 months, some pork is going to squeal through. I see no reason that this could not be passed in late Feb.

Now, the republicans had their way for years, they got their tax cuts, they got their off -budget wars, they got the regulatory environment that they wanted. They put their own in charge of the FCC, the FDA, Commerce, SCC to watch the hen houses. And where did it get us? A "mental recession". Now they act shocked that the peoples eggs have been stolen by the gold plated, mink wearing foxes.

SO it is left to the republicans to be as obstructionist as they possibly can, already prepping for mid-terms 2010. Many of them are already on record saying they want to see Obama fail, and let's be honest again, they really don't give a shit if 90% of the country fails with him, as long as The Masters keep the campaign checks coming and the "fact finding " tours in Scotland open for enrollment.

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 10:20am
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 10:11am

When your good, your good, when you're bitter your better.

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 10:23am
Again, I just wonder why the Democrats are "committing political suicide"....according to our local Righties?

I mean IF their polls are correct and "the public by huge margins opposes the stimulus bill" (one Rasmussen)....

then obviously it'd be political SUICIDE for Dems to support it?!??!??

And even MORE suicidal for a Republican....yet...

Same guys...MAASCH, HAPP, SJCHER, PONTI, all saying it'll pass and GET some (if small) Republican support.

Why, that's odd???

Posted by Mask at 02/06/2009 @ 10:24am
Posted by Mask at 02/06/2009 @ 08:55am

Talk to the wall. You'll have better luck.

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 10:27am
Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 10:23am | ignore this person | warn this person

i wear my bitterness like a warm blanket, BENCH...

sure...i'll admit it...

if the dystopic future (which is now) ends up really taking a downward spiral into chaos and mad maxland...

my true stalinist nature will be revealed to all. my gang of bolshevik post apocalyptic biker commies will have the opposition hanging from every lamp post or rotting away in psychiatric wards for the politically insane...

but don't worry. i think society WILL maintain the cohesiveness to prevent such natural, brutal tendencies of mine from ever manifesting, and one day we'll all wake up into a bright, prosperous, peaceful, "yes we can" world and all this dystopic future stuff will seem like naught more than a bad dream. no more witches or evil winged monkeys...

but if i'm wrong, watch out...my red starred fur caps and soviet ironmongery are ready to bust out at a moments notice...

(actually the only ironmongery i own is a new england arms .32 magnum with oversized pachmeyer grips. loaded with hollow points and a katana...but its a start...)

lol...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 10:34am
Apparently what the cons are relying on is...

feelings.

Whoa whoa whoa

feelings.

They are looking for consumer confidence to rise, in other words, they want people to FEEL confident.

They want the fear on Wall street to subside. Face it, the herd mentality on the street has as much to do with feelings as it does with sound mathematical analysis, maybe more.

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 10:35am
"...but its a start..."

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 10:34am

You can borrow some of mine.

They are all very,

very,

special.

Posted by Benchrest at 02/06/2009 @ 10:44am
(actually the only ironmongery i own is a new england arms .32 magnum with oversized pachmeyer grips. loaded with hollow points and a katana...but its a start...)

lol...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 10:34am

You were supposed to turn that in to the jack boots on Jan 21.

But, keep it, according to the con thought, you may need it to fight off this:

http://tinyurl.com/ynjnyo

I will be using my model 870 on this:

http://tinyurl.com/31ap

Remember, the core reason for owning arms is to fight off the American government, you America Haters!

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 10:45am
One of the very best commentary by Ms. Noonan, today's WSJ; I'll paste in the beginning through a good Superman anecdote:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123388255500354969.html

Bracing Ourselves

America prepares for the worst, and Republicans suddenly seem serious.

* By PEGGY NOONAN

All week the word I kept thinking of was "braced." America is braced, like people who are going fast and see a crash ahead. They know huge and historic challenges are here. They're not confident they can or will be met. Our most productive citizens are our most sophisticated, and our most sophisticated have the least faith in the ability of our institutions to face the future and get us through whole. They have the least faith because they work in them.

Tuesday I talked to people who support a Catholic college. I said a great stress is here and coming, and people are going to be reminded of what's important, and the greatest of these will be our faith, it's what is going to hold us together as a country. As for each of us individually, I think it's like the old story told about Muhammad Ali. It was back in the 1960s and Mr. Ali, who was still Cassius Clay, was a rising star of boxing, on his way to being champ. One day he was on a plane, going to a big bout. He was feeling good, laughing with friends. The stewardess walked by before they took off, looked down and saw that his seatbelt was unfastened. She asked him to fasten it. He ignored her. She asked him again, he paid no attention. Now she leaned in and issued an order: Fasten the seatbelt, now. Mr. Clay turned, looked her up and down, and purred, "Superman don't need no seatbelt."

She said, "Superman don't need no airplane. Buckle up." And he did....

Posted by Happy at 02/06/2009 @ 10:46am
(actually the only ironmongery i own is a new england arms .32 magnum with oversized pachmeyer grips. loaded with hollow points and a katana...but its a start...)

lol...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 10:34am

You can borrow some of mine.

They are all very,

very,

special.

Posted by Benchrest at 02/06/2009 @ 10:44am

I am getting my `arms' greaseed up for `battle' too! IF Sen. Stebnow, whose hubby works for Air America, gets the Fairness Doctrine going targeting talk radio and succeeds.....we're talking serious insurrections.......HOPE and CHANGE from our ?most divisive? Congress and POTUS!

Posted by Happy at 02/06/2009 @ 10:52am
"and people are going to be reminded of what's important, and the greatest of these will be our faith, it's what is going to hold us together as a country."

Feelings

whoa whoa whoooa

feelings.

What was it Ms. Noonan had to say about the GOP slate in 2008? I think it boiled down to "Vote MajiK"

Right HAPPY?

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 10:56am
Remember, the core reason for owning arms is to fight off the American government, you America Haters!

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 10:45am

See?

"I am getting my `arms' greaseed up for `battle' too! IF Sen. Stebnow, whose hubby works for Air America, gets the Fairness Doctrine going targeting talk radio and succeeds.....we're talking serious insurrections.."HAPPYTHEPATRIOT

he won't go fight Islamo-fascists in Iraq to save his way of life, but GodDammit! He will track down a 60 year old woman and blow that bitch away!!

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 11:02am
The dire shitmess thought processes of JO', PONTI, (etc) never can explain why they embrace this sort of govt waste:

"How do you screw the taxpayer for millions, get away with it and then ride off into the sunset with one middle finger extended, the other wrapped around a chilled martini? Ask Earnest O. Robbins -- he knows all about being a successful contractor in Iraq. You start off as a well-connected bureaucrat: in this case, as an Air Force civil engineer...when you retire to take a job as an executive for Parsons, a private construction company looking to do work in Iraq. A few months later, in March 2004, your company magically wins a contract from the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq to design and build the Baghdad Police College, a facility that's supposed to house and train at least 4,000 police recruits. But two years and $72 million later, you deliver not a functioning police academy but one of the great engineering clusterfucks of all time, a practically useless pile of rubble so badly constructed that its walls and ceilings are literally caked in shit and piss, a result of subpar plumbing in the upper floors.

You've done such a terrible job, in fact, that when auditors from the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction visit the college in the summer of 2006, their report sounds like something out of one of the Saw movies: "We witnessed a light fixture so full of diluted urine and feces that it would not operate,"..."the urine was so pervasive that it had permanently stained the ceiling tiles" and that "during our visit, a substance dripped from the ceiling onto an assessment team member's shirt." The final report helpfully includes a photo of a sloppy brown splotch on the outstretched arm of the unlucky arm of the unlucky auditor."

Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 02/06/2009 @ 11:05am
HAPPY, you can find Stabenow some Sundays at Grace United Methodist Church in Lansing MI. You may as well kill her under Jesus.

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 11:05am
Posted by Benchrest at 02/06/2009 @ 10:44am | ignore this person | warn this person

if not for my murderous mittyesque fantasies...i'd probably be in jail...lol...

----------------------------------------

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 10:45am | ignore this person | warn this person

thats all some mighty fine capitalist pig ironmongery, crabs...the hard part is getting hands on it...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 11:06am
the hard part is getting hands on it...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 11:06am

Tell em your name is Saud, you'll need help carrying it all.

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 11:17am
the hard part is getting hands on it...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 11:06am

Go back the next day, tell em your name is Rubeniwitz, you'll need help carrying it all.

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 11:18am
Next day, tell em your name is Ganesh, you'll need help carrying it all.

Then, tell em your name is Khan, you'll need help carrying it all.

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 11:21am
The 11:05 post above is: "The Rip-off in Iraq: You Will Not Believe How Low the War Profiteers Have Gone", By Matt Taibbi, RollingStone.com. Posted August 30, 2007. Also available at: http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/60950/

I invite everyone to read the whole article. It is a real shocker, a real shit-kicker.

I did post it before, like around the time it was first published. Then I asked that boob JOMAMMA (or whatever ridicule-worthy handle he was employing at the time) what he thought. Did the bold self-proclaimed "libertarian" denounce the pork gone berserk in Mesopotomia for connected insiders?

Fuck no! JOMAMMA *gloried in* millions and billions pissed away on "projects" halfway around the world that do not function to acceptable specifications and that are a high-suction siphon hose from the taxpayers' wallet to industry captains many associated with the regime of George W Loser. After all, JO "I won't be the last man to die for a Mistake in Vietnam" MAMMA is veeeerrry serious about "fighting" in the Middle East until the last drop of someone else's blood.

All this brazen puppyshit aboput "pork" and "restrained government" from JOMAMMA, PONTI, the racist clown CRAPPY? It's to be taken as seriously as...

Larry Craig vehemently insisting that he is Family Values Man with no interest in tawdry venues in the airport men's room.

Or as seriously as George W Loser claiming to be the epitome of the little guy who had to make do coming from a very modest upbringing, scrapping and saving for college...

As serious as Mark Foley championing himself as staunch defender of children from the terrifying shadows of the ped'...

...Or as seriously as Saint Sarah proclaiming allegience to "America 1st" a week or so after whoring herself for "Alaska 1st"...

Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 02/06/2009 @ 11:22am
Tell em your name is Saud, you'll need help carrying it all.

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 11:17am | ignore this person | warn this person

looks like the russkies are getting back into the ironmongery game...

still might be able to buy a submarine with enough capital.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 11:22am
Posted by Happy at 02/06/2009 @ 10:46am

Actually if you read the ENTIRE Noonan article you'll see...

it's a mess. A mish-mash of "Hold onto your faith, the world is ending"...Cheney apologia...advice to Repubs...and ends with "Nobody's in charge" doomsaying again.

She's embracing the "Armegeddon" talk of the Right (which emerged "miraculously" within the last few months and the fact THEY are no longer in power). It seems the world just can't make it unless HER side has some power (Note: She says she was fine with Pelosi as opposition to Bush...in other words, Doomsday was put off as long as there was SOME Republican in power.)

It really just comes off as babbling and a form of "self-interested depression"...all based on her ideology.

Posted by Mask at 02/06/2009 @ 11:55am
Very very... Neo-con contrary

Hide the unemployed...

Stand together

Naught and nether

Manifest devoid.

Posted by ttr at 02/06/2009 @ 11:56am
>>>Breaking with the House Democratic leadership and throwing their support behind a push by conservative senators for a bill with less spending, the letter from Blue Dog leader Stephanie Herseth Sandlin, D-South Dakota, and other key leaders of the coalition said of the proposed cuts in stimulus spending: "We believe that's a highly worthwhile goal<<<

These Blue Dogs are stuck in the past like most Republicans!

If you want to comb the stimulus bill for things not thought to "immedietely" help stimulate the economy, you need to RE-FOCUS on the $270 billion in tax cuts, not spending, as many of these tax cuts are just "gifts" to corporations without any requirement that do something REAL to stimulate the economy in exchange for the tax cut.

As written, these corporations could take the tax savings from these tax cuts and do like Citibank and buy corporate jets from France which does absolutely NOTHING to stimulate the US economy!

Posted by Metteyya at 02/06/2009 @ 12:09pm
Blue Dogs need to be reassured that any negotiations with the Axis or any other furrin nation should be handled by diplomats fully armed & with the appropriate junk yard dog mentalities.

It is imperative that meeting rooms be large enough & only flimsy wooden tables used for seating the adversaries. No fancy "Geneva" style interiors. That way if things don't go according to plan, our guys can yell out, "You lying sumbitches!" & upturn the tables on the towelheads.

This will accelerate defense spending at home with all the attendant austerity measures directed at "pork".

We'll get em on board, even if we have to change our own plan! Unity & inclusion trumps liberal appeasement!

Posted by Sorelish at 02/06/2009 @ 1:34pm
The leftists great hope that a master of change had arrived in Washington was quickly dissipated as the House-passed stimulus package "suggested an effort exclusively of, by, and for Democrats, and it played to some of the worst stereotypes of the Democratic Party and of politics as usual on Capitol Hill," writes Cook. "It implied that Obama had become a captive of, rather than the victor over, old-style politics."

The House stimulus debacle belied Obama's determination to build a large and durable coalition - not to merely win with a very narrow majority.

"History shows that the biggest and most meaningful public policy changes of the last century were achieved through bipartisan efforts, not by one party muscling its agenda through! Nancy Pelosi's first act in the new congress was to ASSURE that there would be NO BI-PARTISONSHIP through change in the house rule some going back 100yrs!

Posted by comancheamerican at 02/06/2009 @ 2:23pm
All this brazen puppyshit aboput "pork" and "restrained government" from JOMAMMA, PONTI, the racist clown CRAPPY? It's to be taken as seriously as... Larry Craig vehemently insisting that he is Family Values Man with no interest in tawdry venues in the airport men's room. Or as seriously as George W Loser claiming to be the epitome of the little guy who had to make do coming from a very modest upbringing, scrapping and saving for college... As serious as Mark Foley championing himself as staunch defender of children from the terrifying shadows of the ped'... ...Or as seriously as Saint Sarah proclaiming allegience to "America 1st" a week or so after whoring herself for "Alaska 1st"... Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 02/06/2009 @ 11:22am

As seriously as Geithner saying he "didn't know he had to pay taxes"? As seriously as Daschle saying "Ooops! That car service was so deserved I didn't know it counted as income"? As seriously as Holder not realizing what a crook Marc Rich was?....

Posted by twillie at 02/06/2009 @ 2:45pm
Posted by twillie at 02/06/2009 @ 2:45pm

Duopoly are fun.

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 2:59pm
SO it is left to the republicans to be as obstructionist as they possibly can, already prepping for mid-terms 2010. Many of them are already on record saying they want to see Obama fail, and let's be honest again, they really don't give a shit if 90% of the country fails with him, as long as The Masters keep the campaign checks coming and the "fact finding " tours in Scotland open for enrollment. Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 10:20am

"Many of them are on record..."? Which ones? Just name 4 or 5. With a source.

Given the Dem "fact finding " tours to the Caribbean and Kingsmill golf resort, should we assume that they don't give a shit either?

Posted by twillie at 02/06/2009 @ 3:03pm
Obama is partly to blame for his own predicament. First, he should have led the effort to come up with a workable stimulus bill in the house, not leave it up to the bay area whacko types which gave us this monstrocity. Second, he should have done actual vetting of people he wanted in his government. He was in too much of a hurry to hit the ground running that this slipped through the crack. If anyone needs to crack heads it's Obama, as it relates to the house, especially that idiot Peloci. The blue dogs are the ones that can save the credibility of the house by forcing reasonable policy. So much of the bill does not create private sector jobs, just more government instead, which means more control over our lives - perfect for the bay area fascists but not the rest of America.

Posted by pyeatte at 02/06/2009 @ 3:55pm
I am getting my `arms' greaseed up for `battle' too! IF Sen. Stebnow, whose hubby works for Air America, gets the Fairness Doctrine going targeting talk radio and succeeds.....we're talking serious insurrections.......HOPE and CHANGE from our ?most divisive? Congress and POTUS!

Posted by Happy at 02/06/2009 @ 10:52am | ignore this person | warn this person

HAP, as i've said before...when my commie minions begin assessing appropriating your property for work to wealth ratio taxation and perhaps appropriation, if we take you alive i promise the very best in state run psychiatric care and rehabilitation for the politically insane.

i'll make sure your loved ones are not "exampled" or "extirpated", and once you get rehabilitated or can pass yourself off as, you can become a commie and i'll set you up in a cushy spot in the capitalist affairs section of the supreme american soviet.

then you'll have it made!

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 4:17pm
Posted by comancheamerican at 02/06/2009 @ 2:23pm | ignore this person | warn this person

i'll take care of you and jomamma and darin and all you fascist capitalist enemies of the people too. see above.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 4:20pm
IBBLE,

"Sen. Stebnow, whose hubby works for Air America, gets the Fairness Doctrine going targeting talk radio.. "

Doesn't this trouble you...even a little? Sensorship comes to mind...

Posted by YourJomamma at 02/06/2009 @ 4:30pm
by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 4:20pm...

Institutional 'help' for the politically inane?

Seems most of us fall into that category at one time or another...

;^)

Posted by ttr at 02/06/2009 @ 4:37pm
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/06/2009 @ 4:30pm | ignore this person | warn this person

i believe their should be more hyper anti-trust emphasis in media. if enough different, independent actors are competing, it should balance out on its own.

i just fear a very few entities dominating media - don't you find that scary too?

but i wonder if the argument might just be obsolete regardless, with this here webby tubey thing they call the internet. i DEFINATELY support internet freedom.

except for virus spreaders and child buggerers...both would be shot in my soviet union of america...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 4:42pm
"i just fear a very few entities dominating media - don't you find that scary too? "

Yes...the MSM is left..even they acknowlege it...but I do not need a bill from govt complete with rules penaltys and "enforment officers" showing up at CBS...I can make the descision and turn it off..

That is my point...

I am the arbitor...I make the decsion...not a govt apparetchik

Posted by YourJomamma at 02/06/2009 @ 4:45pm
except for virus spreaders and child buggerers...both would be shot in my soviet union of america...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 4:42pm

yup...and spamers...

We do have the internet and I would remind you, we have hundreds of cable stations...should all of them be subject to FD?

Think TSA..

It would grow jobs for govt, tho,..uniforms with name tags, badges, cars, radios and union breaks...

Posted by YourJomamma at 02/06/2009 @ 4:49pm
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/06/2009 @ 4:30pm

I don't think the FD will come back, but curious...

has Rush explained EXACTLY how enacting it will force him off the air?

Posted by Mask at 02/06/2009 @ 4:53pm
i'll take care of you and jomamma and darin and all you fascist capitalist enemies of the people too. see above.

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 4:20pm | ignore this person | warn this person

People living under Stalin, Hitler, and Mao probably had friends that were ideolistically if not spiritually at odds with them also. Trouble is no one ever saw them again on earth!

Now there are still a few people with tatoos and ex-servicemen of many nations who recall what those guys who declared "I Won" did to those who would not conform!

Posted by comancheamerican at 02/06/2009 @ 4:55pm
Posted by YourJomamma at 02/06/2009 @ 4:45pm | ignore this person | warn this person

i dont see them parsing airtime to different political views.

i say the just limit the size of outlets owned based on blah blah and blah blah and geography...

maybe temporarily as an effort in the "war on recession" (LMAO!!!!), make it as easy for small time broadcasters and wannabe broadcasters with a little capitol and big ideas...to operate and make at LEAST a little profit...

see, john, i'm a real wierd commie...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 5:03pm
Posted by comancheamerican at 02/06/2009 @ 4:55pm | ignore this person | warn this person

RIO,

under MY soviet union of amerika, you will be put out to pasture...literally and in a good way.

i'll find you some nice spot, perhaps your current residence, from which to do something the soviet american government needs done in that area that involves you being paid to do stuff outside that you like...or sit around in a guard shack or observation tower or something...

and you get "free" healthcare, childcare for the grandkids, and all the john wayne movies you could ask for.

i'm watching out for ya, ya old politically retarded cuss...

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 5:09pm
Someone should explain clearly to the Congressmen who are saying that the stimulus package is too big that while they are correct to be concerned about the country's growing debt they should be more concerned at present to the prospect of a deeper and longer recession resulting in production and income losses which are gone forever, never to be regained. The best economists are urging a bigger, not a smaller stimulus package.

Posted by Ralph Deeds at 02/06/2009 @ 5:20pm
Posted by comancheamerican at 02/06/2009 @ 4:55pm

Got your escape planned, RIO?....or don't even believe your own bullcrap?

Posted by Mask at 02/06/2009 @ 5:22pm
Is this FD threat the same as Obama taking my gun?

What we have had under the Bush FCC is LESS competition. The anti-free market. Somewhat like the drug bill passed by the republican congress, no negotiating in the free market.

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 5:23pm
Posted by Mask at 02/06/2009 @ 5:22pm

He is simply a conduit, garbage in, garbage out. I actually don't remember him ever engaging anybody in discussion. As far as I can tell he does a good job of rephrasing the talking points du-jour, adding in his personal touches of demon and satan for flavor.

baaa baaaa demon baaa satan baaa black white house

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 5:27pm
I don't think Rush or anyone else will be off the air but their time may be regulated and we will be forced to turn off Air America despite the fact no one listens to it and it could not support itself financialy(Frank end $2 mil ahead) , it will be mandated on the air and we will begieced to pay for it.

That's a problem for me on many levels.

Posted by YourJomamma at 02/06/2009 @ 5:28pm
Posted by Ralph Deeds at 02/06/2009 @ 5:20pm |

I think the phrase you are looking for is "deficits don't matter".

who said dat?

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 5:29pm
"Hey, dittoes to everything you just said, Rush. Do you know what the problem with America today is, Rush? Nobody thinks for themselves.

Does your website have a list of the nearest Ruth Chris?"

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 5:33pm
who said dat?

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 5:29pm | ignore this person | warn this person

you?

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 5:33pm
iPhone +poor typing =garbled

Be forced to pay for it.

Posted by YourJomamma at 02/06/2009 @ 5:34pm
Ibble, you are onto the solution..

a "war on recession"

We can do it all "off budget", fill it full of black-ops super secret stuff that no one can question or oversee. We can hand out contracts on a strictly cost-plus basis, which will create wealth and free the entrepreneurial spirit.

And who would complain? The anti-war crowd? pffft, a small fringe of society.

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 5:39pm
who said dat?

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 5:29pm | ignore this person | warn this person

you?

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 5:33pm

that's just mean. Did I ever accuse you of shooting someone in the face?

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 5:41pm
that's just mean. Did I ever accuse you of shooting someone in the face?

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 5:41pm | ignore this person | warn this person

i would never admit to anything like that!

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 5:45pm
That's a problem for me on many levels.

Posted by YourJomamma at 02/06/2009 @ 5:28pm

But you don't have a problem with one company owning the radio, tv and print media in the same market? Say, some liberal company like...clearchannel?

Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 5:46pm
ATTENTION EARTHLINGS!

After having reviewed your balance statement, we have found you to be in arrears substantially in regards to the maintenance of your planet.

Therefore we have no remedy but to declare you in default and notify you that we will be taking possession of your planet.

You have until February 14, 2009 to pack your belongings and leave said premises.

Yours Cordially,

God

Posted by frosty zoom at 02/06/2009 @ 6:33pm
God

Posted by frosty zoom at 02/06/2009 @ 6:33pm | ignore this person | warn this person

thats impossible!

Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/06/2009 @ 6:50pm
But you don't have a problem with one company owning the radio, tv and print media in the same market? Say, some liberal company like...clearchannel? Posted by crabwalk at 02/06/2009 @ 5:46pm

Which market is that?

Posted by twillie at 02/06/2009 @ 10:41pm
Humpty Dumpty can't be put together again. Humpty Dumpty shouldn't be put together again. The stimulus plan, any stimulus plan, will be a welcome temporary relief for traumatized US workers. But the financial system is toast. "Free" market capitalism is toast. Heigh Ho the Merry O. The wicked witch is dead! http://amoleintheground.blogspot.com/

Posted by docg at 02/06/2009 @ 10:46pm
Which market is that?

Posted by twillie at 02/06/2009 @ 10:41pm |

1: What? You want me to back up my claim? Can I do an SJ (blacks don't want to vote) SCHERMAK and say "I don't have time to look it up for you, I know I saw it somewhere though"?

2: Or maybe a JOMAMAMA, "I know clear channel dominates the market, if they didn't my ideology would be wrong, and my ideology is not wrong, therefore I am correct."

3: the deal :

"SAN DIEGO -- If you want to hear Aretha Franklin or Lauryn Hill or Metallica on the radio in San Diego, you have no choice but to tune to a Clear Channel station. The same goes for sports talk, local news and Rush Limbaugh.

In the radio world, this pattern is about as unusual as a "first-time caller, longtime-listener."

From Honolulu (seven stations) to Des Moines, Iowa (six), and Ft. Myers, Florida (eight), Clear Channel Communications dominates the dial across the country.

In San Diego, for instance, Clear Channel took over the sales and programming of a small talk station but didn't buy it outright in order to circumvent the eight-station limit. Clear Channel also raided five Tijuana radio stations that broadcast in English, taking over the latest two in May.

For instance, a new Clear Channel country station called "Bob 99.3" -- "Turn your knob to Bob" -- ripped off the name and motto of a defunct Minneapolis station. Dimick said it appears to be a twin of a country station in Phoenix.

And when a San Diego rock station called "Mix" debuted in 1999, it was one of more than a dozen Clear Channel stations nationwide with identical nicknames, identical logos and similar playlists. While the San Diego station folded, the number of "Mix" stations nationwide has grown to 25.

Posted by crabwalk at 02/07/2009 @ 08:44am
Above from 2002 WIRED article .

Now are ya'll going to tell me how Clearchannel, dominate MSM source, is ....liberal?

Posted by crabwalk at 02/07/2009 @ 08:52am
2002 was a VERY interesting time for "the liberal media". The new FCC regs were up for review. These new regs allow large companies to own several media outlets int he same market, allowing domination by a single group. (If that group were Air America we know the cons would be up in force. )

In order to get these new regs, the media groups had to play along with The Powers That Be, at the time CHimpCo. CHimpCO was rolling out a new product in 2002, the War in Iraq. SO, on the airwaves of theses stations and in the print of the newspapers we read all about the threat from Saddam Hussein, his drone planes, his anthrax, his nuclear stockpiles, his linbks to AQ. We heard from such "independents" as Barry Macaffery and Colin Powell. We heard little from the darn Europeans Hans Blix or our own David Albright. The "liberal media" did show us some dissenters from Hollywood, but they are easily dismissed as "liberal elites from Hollywood".

BOOM!

ChimpCO get's it war, CLearChannel/Viacom etc get to buy up the competition. Now we have less entrepreneurship and more centralized control of the media.

And the cons love it.

a neo-conundrum.

Posted by crabwalk at 02/07/2009 @ 09:04am
"You have a game plan by a large national corporation to try and capture market share by driving everyone out of the business: overpaying for talent so other promoters can't afford to compete and raising ticket prices on a broad basis so the consumer has to pay for it." -- Greg Perloff speaking about Clear Channel

Perloff is big time promoter.

Clear Channel owns seven San Francisco radio stations, a labyrinthine concert business, and about half of the city's billboards.

---

Mayor Willie Brown jammed a law through City Hall banning free-standing newsracks in parts of the city. They would be replaced by larger, multibox racks called ped mounts. The city also entered into a 20-year contract with Adshel, which would install and maintain the ped mounts, and have the right to place illuminated ads--as large as 18 square feet--on the backs of the mounts.

The news-rack contract establishes a 20-year relationship with Clear Channel, which in recent years has become a media behemoth on par with Viacom and Gannett, stirring up much criticism in the process. The company's mission is aptly summarized in its tagline: "How many ways has Clear Channel reached you today?

The company's subsidiary--Clear Channel Outdoor--controls an estimated fifty percent of San Francisco's outdoor billboards. The company also places ads atop local taxis and in hundreds of malls across the country, according to its website. And since acquiring SFX and Bill Graham Presents, Clear Channel Entertainment has had the exclusive right to book and promote shows at a wide array of venues, including the Fillmore, the Warfield, and the Shoreline Amphitheater.

Posted by crabwalk at 02/07/2009 @ 09:28am
The pugs round here love to always bring up the "leftist" MSM, and act as if it really exists. Lately all the cable news networks (with perhaps the exception of MSNBC) have been giving republicans a two to one advantage on talking heads appearing on their news shows. When they were critisized for that back when the pugs held power in the government they explained it away as "Well they are the Party in power." Well so who is in power now? So WTF?

I will answer my own question. It's because the corporations that own these networks are in bed with the Limbaugh Republicans. And the sad thing is that when you couple that with radio talk being dominated by right wingnuts you have a powerfull tool. Thats why you hear so many of the ignorant parroting right wing talking points.

We need to bring back some form of the fairness doctrine to combat this menace. Did you see how Hannity had his hair on fire demanding that Senator Debbie Stabenow just "Try and take the microphone out of my mouth"?

Posted by chaoszen at 02/07/2009 @ 10:06am
On another point. If we really want to get the economy back on track we need to start putting pressure on our representatives to roll back the Reagan Tax Cuts. I know that may sound impossible given the "godlike" status of the ghost of Reagan. Compliments of historical rewrites by determined neo-cons. But it needs to be done.

When you want to cure a disease you have to treat the cause, not the symptoms. Rolling them back would put a stop to the bubble and bust economic model so favored by the right. The thing is, those assholes make enough money during the bubble stage to ride out the bust stage. The rest of us just suffer for their greed.

When the progressive tax system works properly corporations are much less likely to pull money out of the business and suffer the tax consequences. They roll that money back into the business and grow the business. Which results in more jobs. Which puts money in the hands of the people who spend it. The result is a stable sustainable economy.

The way it is now with these over generous tax rates is that those companies pull money out of the business and invest it in exotic instruments like hedge funds and derivatives. This creates a bubble. The fat cats make a fortune and then ride out the inevitable bust. While the rest of us eat shit.

They know exactly what they are doing. It is evil and criminal. But they don't want all of us to know. That is why you see an Orwellian/Huxley obfuscated and twisted effort on their part to hide it.

This has been going on for a long long time. Look at history. But we have a short memory. WAKE UP AMERICA!

Posted by chaoszen at 02/07/2009 @ 10:56am
Knowledge is the enemy of these demons that plague us. Why do you think they abhor education and science? Better to keep the rabble uneducated and poor, to obscure the truth. They believe in a two class system. The poor and the rich. Because only they "The Elite", "The Masters of the Universe" are capable of ruling the world. With the rest of us peons serving their needs. This crap has been going on for many millenia.

The Middle Class is their greatest threat. That is why they violently oppose unions. That is why a police state is always attempted. That is why a country spies on it's own people. A strong Middle Class is the only thing that can defeat them. And that is why they attack it.

Once you get your head wrapped around the truth is when the real work begins. But the truth allows focus. The truth allows victory over those that would oppress us. Ignore the static.

One word of warning. The truth can also drive you crazy. But it's like.. "Good Crazy".

Posted by chaoszen at 02/07/2009 @ 11:28am
Hannity had his hair on fire demanding that Senator Debbie Stabenow just "Try and take the microphone out of my mouth"?

Posted by chaoszen at 02/07/2009 @ 10:06am

I guess nobody is reading this particular blog anymore. Just my luck. So I will explain the joke for the record (never a good idea). I had hoped someone else would pick up on it. But as usual I am a day late and a nickle ninetyfive late.

In his tirade/tantrum Hannity referenced the fact that the microphone was "in his mouth". I found this very revealing. Most broadcasters speak into the microphone. Apparently Hannity envisions it in his mouth. A microphone is generally shaped in a form remeniscient of a penis. Is it possible that Hannity has been sucking the corporate dick for so long that he doesn't know the difference?

Posted by chaoszen at 02/07/2009 @ 12:58pm
I thought deficits didn't matter.

Posted by schnellerheinz at 02/07/2009 @ 3:10pm
We voted for, and got, a Chicago politician. Now we live with that choice. People can rant all they want about class warfare, destruction of the middle class, police state, provocateurs, Great Depression, but the fact is, as we see, government is rolling along just about the way it always has. The party and characters have changed, but that's about it. How sad.

Posted by jsens at 02/09/2009 @ 10:46am

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Blue-Dog Leaders Revolt Against Bold Stimulus

posted by John Nichols on 02/05/2009 @ 5:41pm

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Blue-Dog Leaders Revolt Against Bold Stimulus

posted by John Nichols on 02/05/2009 @ 5:41pm

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About the Authors

Ari Melber (Posts | Bio)

Ari Berman (Posts | Bio)

Christopher Hayes (Posts | Bio)

Cora Currier (Posts | Bio)

John Nichols (Posts | Bio)

Katrina vanden Heuvel (Posts | Bio)

Laura Flanders (Posts | Bio)

Leslie Savan (Posts | Bio)

Max Blumenthal (Posts | Bio)

Tom Engelhardt (Posts | Bio)

Victor Navasky (Posts | Bio)

Archives

» The Beat

» The Notion

» Altercation

» Editor's Cut

» The Dreyfuss Report

» Act Now!