Holder: Waterboarding Is Torture

Attorney General-nominee Eric Holder faced often aggressive grilling from members of the Senate Judiciary Committee Thursday. But one of the first statements made by President-elect Barack Obama's designee to head the Department of Justice during the confirmation hearing was perhaps the most important.

Under oath, with not just senators but the world watching, Holder declared that "waterboarding is torture."

Judiciary Committee chair Patrick Leahy, D-Vermont, referred to waterboarding -- which is broadly recognized as torture but which President Bush, Vice President Cheney and their legal aides defended, at times obliquely, at times overtly -- in his opening round of questions for Holder.

The former Deputy Attorney General responded: "I agree with you Mr. Chairman, waterboarding is torture."

Holder went on to say that "the president does not have the power" to authorize torture.

That statement came during a hearing that saw Holder adopt a humble stance, admitting past mistakes--particularly with regard to his counseling former President Bill Clinton regarding the controversial pardon of fugitive Marc Rich. "I don't mean to minimize what I did by calling it a mistake," the nominee said, under appropriately tough questioning from Pennsylvania Senator Arlen Specter, R-Pennsylvania. "I take what I did seriously and have expressed regret for what I did consistently."

Holder also expressed a regard for the Constitution that was rarely in evidence during the Bush-Cheney years.

Conscious of criticism he has taken for being too deferent to the presidents he has served in the past, Holder placed special emphasis on his understanding of his responsibility to serve not just the man who is appointing him but the Constitution.

Holder promised to be a "guardian of the document" and recognized that "congressional review and judicial oversight are necessary."

Holder is not a perfect nominee. He will not be a perfect Attorney General. But his declaration to the committee that the Department of Justice must serve not a president or a party but the Constitution and the American people was a refreshing indication that Holder "gets it" in ways that Alberto Gonzales and Michael Mukasey never did.

That said, while Holder's statements were important, he should also have been listening to the committee charged with providing not just consent but advice to the new administration and its Attorney General.

"We need an Attorney General, as Robert H. Jackson said 68 years ago, 'who serves the law and not factional purposes, and who approaches his task with humility,'" said Leahy in his opening statement. "The next Attorney General will understand our moral and legal obligation to protect the fundamental rights of all Americans and to respect the human rights of all people."

Leahy says he believes Holder will be that sort of Attorney General.

And Holder provided some evidence on Thursday that he would meet the standard. In so doing, he did his nomination prospects good service -- all but assuring that the man many see as the president-elect's most vulnerable nominee will be approved by the committee and confirmed by the full Senate.

Once that happens, Holder's first task should be to reward this confidence by using his powerful position to give meaning to his testimony of Thursday by assuring that no one detained by the United States will ever again be subjected to the torture that is waterboarding.

Comments (29)

1. When I read Holder's comments, I admit I was surprised. His candidness was refreshing. I hope he's honest as well. He obviously does not have a problem with admitting past mistakes. I also hope that extends to mistakes that may happen in the present.

   Posted by k330k at 01/15/2009 @ 12:02pm

2. Nichols,

   Would you water board Bin Laden to find out when and where he is attacking America? to find out where your wife and kids are? or if you could stop a dirty nuke, say, planted in the Nation Magazine office?

   I would faster than you could fill the bath tub....I would try to save your family and mine even if you wouldn't...you could always get him an ACLU team right after the resuce.

   Posted by YourJomamma at 01/15/2009 @ 12:08pm

3. He obviously does not have a problem with admitting past mistakes. I also hope that extends to mistakes that may happen in the present. Posted by k330k at 01/15/2009 @ 12:02pm

   That's refreshing isn't it? Instead of just denial, denial, denial.

   Posted by Cccomfo1 at 01/15/2009 @ 12:09pm

4. Holder should declare that holding alleged terrorists captured on foreign soil violates the Geneva Convention and that the U.S. is bound by the Convention until the President, then the Senate, determine differently, as prescribed by the Constitution. Secondly, that prisoners of Gaunt-Bay must be moved to U.S. soil for immediate health and psychological evaluation, arraignment with counsel, and a determination by a special prosecutor regarding whether to continue moving toward trial. All trial should be conducted within two years. No evidence obtained by illegal coercion or discovered indirectly through illegal means is admissible. Any prisoner not suitable for trial should be offered to his/her home country for release. If refused, he/she should file for asylum under U.S. law and request assistance finding a country willing to take him/her. If none is found, he/she should be released in the airport of his home country for their action. In the meantime, he/she should be housed under military guard.

   Posted by Cannonball at 01/15/2009 @ 12:28pm

5. Well, of course we get the Right-wingers "I love '24', man, Jack Bauer rules!" crowd.

   (BTW, MAASCH, RIO...Dubya said we DIDN'T torture, was he lying or did he tell the truth and wants the terrorists to win???)

   But where are all our "Obama and his Administration will be no different from Bush" Lefties?!?!??!??

   Posted by Mask at 01/15/2009 @ 12:30pm

6. Posted by comanchenation above...

   Evidence of legal contributions to a candidate is not evidence of collusion. Politico is not a credible news source but a GOP mouthpiece. If the NYT knows about something, it isn't "behind the scenes" and why shouldn't Citibank lobby for more money? Congress approved this socialism for the rich, so why not get in line? Bundling is not illegal and the pharmacy and healthcare companies have most of the GOP in their pocket as GOP's largest contributors. Why do you think the healthcare in this country sucks? Finally, who is bought and paid for? Obama? He can't both be a Marxist who will give tax credits to the poor and piss on the rich and a tool of big business? Except in your fevered imagination...

   Posted by Cannonball at 01/15/2009 @ 12:37pm

7. I hope Mr. Holder realizes, and I think he does, that waterboarding, sleep deprivation, attack dogs, personal indiginites, and the entire evil cocktail sanctioned by the war criminal cabinet also constitutes torture. The US signed the Geneva Conventions and the UN Conventions against Torture years ago. They are not "quaint" relics of a bygone era, but a critical and necessary wall of defense against a lawless and uncontrollable government, like the Bush government that will soon take its rightful place within the dustbin of history on Tuesday.

   Posted by RPerry at 01/15/2009 @ 12:47pm

8. He can't both be a Marxist who will give tax credits to the poor and piss on the rich and a tool of big business? Except in your fevered imagination...------Posted by Cannonball at 01/15/2009 @ 12:37pm

   OH, yes he can, Cannon.

   You forget your basic Orwell. Rush, Sean, etc. can convince the comanche/RIO set of two contradictory things at the same time.

   "Obama is a Marxist radical" AND "He's in the pocket of Big Business"

   AND (even a third contradiction) "Big Business doesn't control you when they make a donation!" (when they're discussing REPUBLICANS!)

   Posted by Mask at 01/15/2009 @ 1:05pm

9. all those Bushies who signed off on torture should themselves imprisoned be at Guantanamo, cum waterboarding. we need no trials. these are the worst of the worst.

   Posted by emile duBois at 01/15/2009 @ 1:12pm

10. Posted by lvliberty1 at 01/15/2009 @ 1:21pm

    A more clear cut case of psychological "projection", I've never seen.

    heheh

    Posted by Mask at 01/15/2009 @ 1:24pm

11. Posted by YourJomamma at 01/15/2009 @ 12:08pm

    "Would you water board Bin Laden to find out when and where he is attacking America? to find out where your wife and kids are? or if you could stop a dirty nuke, say, planted in the Nation Magazine office?

    "I would faster than you could fill the bath tub....I would try to save your family and mine even if you wouldn't...you could always get him an ACLU team right after the resuce."

    Terrific, YJ. But do us a favor. Save these sentiments for the suicide note.

    Posted by john lowell at 01/15/2009 @ 1:38pm

12. Posted by YourJomamma at 01/15/2009 @ 12:08pm

    "Would you water board Bin Laden to find out when and where he is attacking America? to find out where your wife and kids are? or if you could stop a dirty nuke, say, planted in the Nation Magazine office?

    "I would faster than you could fill the bath tub....I would try to save your family and mine even if you wouldn't...you could always get him an ACLU team right after the resuce."

    Terrific, YJ. But do us a favor. Save these sentiments for the suicide note.

    Posted by john lowell at 01/15/2009 @ 1:44pm

13. I am pleased with this appointment, and it is my hope he will prosecute any American who violated the law in Iraq, Afghanistan, or anywhere!

    Posted by P. J. Casey at 01/15/2009 @ 1:47pm

14. Holder got over the very low bar set by Mike Mukasey when he was being confirmed as AG. Mukasey famously waffled and triangulated for days over the waterboarding question.....then Obama and others voted to confirm him.

    So yes it is refreshing to see Holder admit that the sky is blue, but is this really something to celebrate?

    Many bloggers wanted a question along these lines:

    Would you promise to investigate and prosecute (if evidence is there) past government officials for torture and war crimes?

    A yes to that and we would know that change is coming. The fact that this question was NOT asked is as telling as a Holder answer might have been.

    People would do well to research Holder and his "war on drugs" zealotry.

    They should also know about his high level involvement in the decades long atrocities in central and south America against labor leaders and indigenous peoples. Dole, Chiquita, our government and the CIA worked mainly in Honduras and Colombia with compliant puppet governments and made a lot of money. Many people are somewhat familiar with this dark side of our nation, but most are unaware of the role of Eric Holder in it. Google is your friend.

    Posted by LesserOf2Evils at 01/15/2009 @ 1:50pm

15. Posted by YourJomamma at 01/15/2009 @ 12:08pm

    torture the martyr first. smart. as if he'd say anything.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 01/15/2009 @ 1:59pm

16. Saying that Waterboarding IS Torture, ISN'T enough. A lot of things get said all the time. The fact of the matter is that if Holder along with Obama do NOT prosecute George W. Bush and Dick Cheney for admitting their knowledge of the illegality of and still using waterboarding as a means of interrogation, then his oath to protect the constitution is just as meaningless and just as much a lie and a crime. It is We the People who need to hold the incoming administrations feet to the fire, and demand prosecutions, as well as a lot of other things, like; And End to These Wars in the Middle East, an End to Illegal laws such as the FISA Bill and the US Patriot Act, that grossly violate our rights under the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. I also call for a new and complete, independent Investigation of What REALLY Happened in 9/11, and why the first responders, Fire and Police and Rescue workers are not giving proper treatment and care for health related problems due to the unsafe conditions surrounding ground zero, for months after the actual 9/11 incident. We must ALSO demand that out government stops its one-sided support and funding of Israel and its Military. Well, in 5 days we are going to see if the people who voted for change and everyone who has been PROMISED change are actually going to see any, or not. Please visit my blog @ http://enemyartistkristofer.blogspot.com

    Posted by kristofeR! at 01/15/2009 @ 2:03pm

17. Posted by kristofeR! at 01/15/2009 @ 2:03pm

    "The fact of the matter is that if Holder along with Obama do NOT prosecute George W. Bush and Dick Cheney for admitting their knowledge of the illegality of and still using waterboarding as a means of interrogation, then his oath to protect the constitution is just as meaningless and just as much a lie and a crime."

    And with the squishy soft Obama - as he is almost guaranteed to do when it comes to questions that require moral rectitude - gutlessly leaving the question of prosecution of Bush and Cheney to Holder alone, we get the measure of the man's humanity. As I see it, there's not much more to Barak Obama morally than a daily trip to the gym, so don't get your hopes up for anything earthshaking. Maybe we'll have better luck with President Holder.

    Posted by john lowell at 01/15/2009 @ 2:41pm

18. I wrote:

    Evidence of legal contributions to a candidate is not evidence of collusion. Politico is not a credible news source but a GOP mouthpiece. If the NYT knows about something, it isn't "behind the scenes" and why shouldn't Citibank lobby for more money? Congress approved this socialism for the rich, so why not get in line? Bundling is not illegal and the pharmacy and healthcare companies have most of the GOP in their pocket as GOP's largest contributors. Why do you think the healthcare in this country sucks? Finally, who is bought and paid for? Obama? He can't both be a Marxist who will give tax credits to the poor and piss on the rich and a tool of big business? Except in your fevered imagination...

    Liberty wrote:

    Aside from your ignorance of history, law and facts, your conclusions are just inane.

    but I'm sure that won't stop you from continuing to spew on in ignorance and lies.

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 01/15/2009 @ 1:21pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Not sure how my opinion on this can be a lie. Do you feel better if I say I really mean it! As to ignorance, I am open to be taught, so educate me. What did I say that is erroneous?

    As to "spew" and "inane": I don't mind silliness, but I think this discussion might be worth taking seriously. And I rarely spew. How about you?

    Posted by Cannonball at 01/15/2009 @ 3:16pm

19. Questions:

    1. Since waterboarding is not torture, why is it being defined as such by Mr. Holder?

    2. How come some those who are hyper-concerned about what they perceive to be torture now, who are old enough to have been around in the late 60's and early 70's, did not then and do not now express negative opinions about what the North Vietnamese did to our soldiers, which was actual torture causing severe physical injury and in many cases, death?

    Posted by sjchermak at 01/15/2009 @ 3:28pm

20. Now that the definition of waterboarding is settled, we only need to figure out what the definition of "is" is.

    Posted by Prospector at 01/15/2009 @ 3:48pm

21. The truth is that any lawyer worth his salt can finagle a new definition of almost anything. It only depends on how much silliness we are willing to tolerate.

    Posted by Prospector at 01/15/2009 @ 3:51pm

22. Posted by sjchermak at 01/15/2009 @ 3:28pm

    Questions-

    1. WHO said waterboarding is not torture?

    2. How come those who claim to have hated what the North Vietnamese did...now want to imitate it?

    Posted by Mask at 01/15/2009 @ 4:02pm

23. Mask,

    The answer to your 2 questions lies in the comparison of the effects of what happens to somebody as a result of waterboarding versus the things the North Vietnamese did.

    Posted by sjchermak at 01/15/2009 @ 4:23pm

24. Prospector,

    You said "Now that the definition of waterboarding is settled, we only need to figure out what the definition of "is" is. "

    I guess there are enough Clinton people being brought into the Obama administration so if anybody can figure it out, they certainly can.

    Posted by sjchermak at 01/15/2009 @ 4:24pm

25. Posted by sjchermak at 01/15/2009 @ 4:23pm

    So YOU is the answer to #1....

    and "We're only HALF as bad as the North Vietnamese" is the answer to #2?

    I certainly do love this ditto-head logic...."It isn't torture...and even if it is, it's not AS bad as what the Vietnamese did to our boys, which was horrible and showed what brutes they were!"

    Which by that logic means that if the North Vietnamese had ONLY used waterboarding....you'd have to give them a pass, wouldn't you?

    Posted by Mask at 01/15/2009 @ 4:34pm

26. How typical of John Nichols! Bush and Cheney have allowed our intelligence professionals to pour water down the noses of a handful of terrorists involved in 9/11, or trying to pull off new 9/11s. None of these terrorists were permanently harmed, disfigured, or killed, and we have the sworn testimony of the head of CIA that information was obtained that saved American lives. Yet the crazy left want to accuse Bush and Cheney of being war criminals. Eric Holder on the other hand enable the most corrupt pardon in U.S. history. Marc Rich was a fugitive wanted by the FBI hiding out in a foreign country. He arranged donations to the Clinton library, and Hillary Clinton's Senate campaign. His pardon was an act of such vile corruption that it shocked even the crazy left when Clinton made it. And now we know one of the reasons Holder enable it was because he wanted to be A.G. in a Gore administration. This is even worse than what Gov Blagojevich did! So he says oops "sorry"...and John Nichols just looks the other way. So we will have a corrupt man as A.G. of the U.S. who's committed to putting behind bars any intelligence agent who says a nasty word to a terrorist. The crazy left isn't just crazy...its going to get Americans killed!

    Posted by valwayne at 01/15/2009 @ 4:42pm

27. Mask,

    But you forget... People like Communists, Nazis, Islamic radicals and extremists, etc. do not ONLY use waterboarding, they certainly do not even bother with waterboarding.

    And a lot of times Saddam, for example, didn't even bother with torture, just direct and instant death.

    So your question about giving a pass is moot, because your "if" is only purely hypothetical, and not reality.

    Posted by sjchermak at 01/15/2009 @ 4:42pm

28. Someone please refresh my memory . . .

    Didn't we try the Geneva Convention, ACLU route before? Didn't we arrest the guys who tried to blow up the WTC in 1993? Didn't we convict them and aren't they getting three meals a day, 5-times-a-day prayers at tax payer expense in some federal prison somewhere?

    Refresh my memory . . .

    Didn't we show the world how civilized and compassionate and sensitive we were by treating the 1993 terrorists with all respect and human rights? And aren't the twin towers only a memory today? Didn't the bad guys just laugh at our niavete and simp-minded thinking and blow the towers away?

    You lame-brained, bleeding-heart liberals make me retch. You tout rights and respect for everybody who wants to kill you, and heap scorn on the people actually putting their butts on the line to protect you. Damn fools!

    I thought you fools were all going to Canada if Bush won. Why are you still here ruining our country? Go up north and freeze. And never mind the -50 degrees, we're in the midst of global warming. More of your foolish, inane idiocy.

    Posted by Truzak at 01/15/2009 @ 9:23pm

29. "Would you water board Bin Laden to find out when and where he is attacking America? to find out where your wife and kids are? or if you could stop a dirty nuke, say, planted in the Nation Magazine office? I would faster than you could fill the bath tub....I would try to save your family and mine even if you wouldn't...you could always get him an ACLU team right after the resuce."--Posted by YourJomamma at 01/15/2009 @ 12:08pm

    So if there was an invasion of aliens from the fifth planet of the Alpha Centauri V system, and they came wielding Betty Crocker cookbooks instructing them to steal all our canned Goya products and steam them before consuming them, and those subsequent farts were to result in global warming, should we threaten the new Mrs. Butterworth with being turned back into glass from her new anthropomorphic plastic self?

    That question holds about as much validity in the real world as the one you posed. What scares me is that this is probably true in your world too.

    Posted by onthehelm at 01/15/2009 @ 10:31pm