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RedditEmbattled Alaska Senator Ted Stevens said he wanted a quickie trial before the 2008 election so that he could clear his name in time for voters to hand the 84-year-old Republican a seventh term.
Stevens got the trial he wanted.
But the senator did not get the verdict he sought.
On Monday, a jury found Stevens guilty on seven counts of lying on federal financial disclosure forms. The lies were related to favors the senator received from a wealthy and politically-connected Alaska businessman who is at the center of a corruption scandal that has rocked the state.
Now, the senior senator's conviction is the biggest news story -- even bigger than that of long-time Stevens ally Sarah Palin's campaign for the vice presidency -- in the state as Alaskans prepare to vote November 4.
The timing could not be worse for Stevens and Republicans who hope to retain a muscular caucus in a narrowly Democrat-controlled Senate.
Though he is now a convicted felon, Stevens vows to keep campaigning.
"I am not stepping down," he said before the verdict came down. "I'm going to run through and I'm going to win this election."
But, unlike in most of his previous races, Stevens faces a credible Democratic challenger: Anchorage Mayor Nick Begich.
Recent polls have shown the Stevens-Begich race to be tight, but the Democrat has edged ahead in some of them. (One poll last week had it: Begich 46, Stevens 45.)
Presumably, the news that the senator has been found guilty of every charge on which he was tried could tip the Stevens race to his Democratic challenger.
That's a big deal not just for Alaska but for the country.
Democrats are trying to win at least nine Republican-held Senate seats this year, so that the party will have 60 seats and its first filibuster-proof majority in decades.
Polls suggest that all of the Senate's Democratic incumbents who are seeking re-election this year are comfortably ahead. So the competition is entirely on Republican turf.
As of Monday Democratic candidates for Republican-held open seats were well ahead in Colorado, New Mexico and Virginia. In New Hampshire, Democrat Jeanne Shaheen is well ahead of Republican Senator John Sununu.
Races in Oregon, North Carolina, Minnesota, Georgia, Kentucky and Mississippi looked to be close. The best bet is that these races will split, with some GOP incumbents surviving and others going down.
Let's imagine that Democrats get the four easy pick-ups and four of the close contests. Alaska could well be the state that gives them 60.
(On a Nation note: Ted Stevens lost an election for the Senate in 1962 -- yes, 1962 -- to former Nation associate editor Ernest Gruening. He was appointed to the Senate in 1968 and has won every contest since then.)
UPDATE: While the Alaska Democratic Party is calling on Stevens to step down, Governor Palin simply says, "I'm confident Senator Stevens will do what's right for the people of Alaska." She's trying to distance herself from the mess. But, just in case Palin conveniently "forgets" her past alliances with Stevens, here's a reminder...
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Palin's spokesperson just issued a statement declaring Governor Palin never met, nor has even HEARD of this so-called "Senator Ted Stevens" and he's likely something just made-up by the elite liberal media to run down the good, honest, hard-working Joe-the-Six-Plumber-Pack, hockey moms who buy clothes at thrift shops Alaskans who have never heard of this "Ted Stevens" either ...
oh, and it's obviously sexism!
(heheh)
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/27/2008 @ 4:53pm
bye bye teddy...
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 4:58pm
Perhaps Mr. Stevens should follow the "Palin Response Plan" and issue a press release thanking the court for its finding that he committed no wrongdoing. I would be willing to bet that some portion of the electorate will somehow agree.
Posted by Hman23 at 10/27/2008 @ 5:15pm
well...
the rightwing wacko terrorism has started up again...ALREADY!!!
crazy skinhead plot to murder lots of black people and try to assasinate obama uncovered and foiled...
watch out, america! the un-american, fascist, treasonous, traitorous, satano-aynrando, fundyvangelist, theocratic, seditious, seccesionist, america hatin', rightwing, wacko, terrorist, lunatic fringe, america and democracy haters are getting ready to unleash a campaign of violent terrorism on our great nation!
good job, mccain/palin! way to whip up your base!!!
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 5:17pm
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The ATF says it has broken up a plot to assassinate Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama and shoot or decapitate 102 black people in a Tennessee murder spree.
In court records unsealed Monday, agents said they disrupted plans to rob a gun store and target an unnamed but predominantly African-American high school by two neo-Nazi skinheads.
-----------------------------------------
way to whip up that base, palin/mccain!!!
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 5:24pm
"In court records unsealed Monday, agents said they disrupted plans to rob a gun store and target an unnamed but predominantly African-American high school by two neo-Nazi skinheads."
bring out...the nuts...
where are...the nuts?
oh - at a PALIN/mccain rally!!!
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 5:26pm
(I am not stepping down," he said before the verdict came down. "I'm going to run through and I'm going to win this election." )
This guy needs to be gone from politics in a serious way, for frickin ever.
Posted by Benchrest at 10/27/2008 @ 5:26pm
shoot or decapitate? 102?
geez! whats the thought process behind that?
ah, fascism!!!
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 5:28pm
"bring out...the nuts...
where are...the nuts?
oh - at a PALIN/mccain rally!!!"
*ignites lightsaber*
Bring it on bitches!!!
Posted by Darth_Vulgar at 10/27/2008 @ 5:29pm
BOSTON (Reuters) - Authorities in Massachusetts are investigating a gun fair where an 8-year-old boy died after accidentally shooting himself in the head with an Uzi submachine gun while under adult supervision, police said on Monday.
Christopher Bizilj lost control of the weapon on Sunday at the Machine Gun Shoot & Firearms Expo at a sportsman's club in Westfield, a city about 96 miles west of the state capital Boston, police said.
He was rushed to hospital, where he was pronounced dead.
Under Massachusetts law, children can legally fire a weapon if they are supervised by a licensed instructor and have consent from a parent or legal guardian, but gun control advocates said the boy should never have been allowed to fire the military-grade weapon.
"An Uzi or AK-47 should never be in the hands of an 8-year-old. It's a weapon of war. It's used on a battlefield by trained soldiers," said Jerry Belair, legislative director for Stop Handgun Violence, a Massachusetts nonprofit.
Westfield Police Lt. Hipolito Nunez said local and state police, the Hampden district attorney and the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives were investigating the shooting.
He said they were looking into whether the boy from Ashford, Connecticut, had parental consent and whether the gun fair followed state laws.
Officials of the private club could not be reached for comment.
(Reporting by Jason Szep; Editing by Eric Walsh)
-----------------------------------------
rightwing parenting. nice family values.
prayers to the boy and his family. how horrible.
what is wrong with us that we sanction such by law?
oh yeah! a "well armed militia"...
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 5:34pm
Bring it on bitches!!!
Posted by Darth_Vulgar at 10/27/2008 @ 5:29pm | ignore this person | warn this person
moohaha! the army of oppositional defiant demoncrats in service of the good grows!!!!
MOOHAHA!!!!
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 5:36pm
shoot or decapitate? 102?
MOOHAHA!!!!
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 5:36pm
Where's a shark with a frickin laser beam attatched to it's head when you need one?
Or some ill-tempered sea bass.
Posted by Benchrest at 10/27/2008 @ 5:48pm
Where's a shark with a frickin laser beam attatched to it's head when you need one?
Or some ill-tempered sea bass.
Posted by Benchrest at 10/27/2008 @ 5:48pm | ignore this person | warn this person
or some cyborg mooses and polar bears...
----------------------------------------
Posted by RedRiver_. at 10/27/2008 @ 5:54pm | ignore this person | warn this person
yeah, RIO, loose vs strict interpretations of the constitution - its an argument thats been around for quite a while.
unlike the bible, the constitution is a living document that can and has been ammended. like the bible it can be interpreted variously...
like interpreting "well armed militia" to mean any moron without a criminal record who wants to take his 8 year old kid to a gun show and pop off a few rounds out of an uzi...
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 6:04pm
Yeah, like the Bush Regime by-passing the Constitution every chance they got and then claiming "its for your protection".
Posted by Darth_Vulgar at 10/27/2008 @ 6:09pm
Posted by Darth_Vulgar at 10/27/2008 @ 6:09pm | ignore this person | warn this person
well, at least we have the USA FASCIST act to deal with the rightwing domestic terrorist to come...
wow...guess those fascists thought they had a real ace in the hole with that one when they figgered they'd never lose power...
once again an insight into the mind of the rightwing - lack of empathy and forethought...
(ie - evil AND stupid)
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 6:15pm
like interpreting "well armed militia" to mean any moron without a criminal record who wants to take his 8 year old kid to a gun show and pop off a few rounds out of an uzi...
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 6:04pm
or like interpreting the Equal Protection Clause to invalidate the proposed recount plan for Florida in the 2000 election.
Posted by Hman23 at 10/27/2008 @ 6:16pm
or like interpreting the Equal Protection Clause to invalidate the proposed recount plan for Florida in the 2000 election.
Posted by Hman23 at 10/27/2008 @ 6:16pm | ignore this person | warn this person
or like allocating my tax money to religious "charities" that are under no compulsion to hire non christians and use their charity work to proselytize their religion...
it goes on and on and on...
you know...i know ol' rese and plunger are a couple(?) of nuts, but the actions of the fascist party over the last 8 years really HAS been scary. MORE than scary enough to set off a few paranoid conspiracy theorists on the left...
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 6:21pm
Red River
If the Constitution was not amendable and had not been amended the US would still have legal slavery and women would still be unable to vote.
Bill Whittle's opinion may be that the Constitution was designed to limit government. Others, however, see it as a way of defining what a government "of the People, by the People" should be. The framers were looking to define a republican government that would free American's from the ills of authoritarian Monarchy (if that isn't redundant). Many Constitutional scholars see the Constitution as a set of Principles to guide the progress and development of a free society, rather than a strict set of laws that must be followed.
Otherwise, as I wrote, there would be no right to vote for women and Black human beings would still be owned by white human beings.
Posted by ohsotired at 10/27/2008 @ 6:27pm
Yeah, the tens of millions of murderous Nazi skinheads that make up the Republican base really love Palin
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 10/27/2008 @ 6:31pm | ignore this person | warn this person
hell yeah! cinnamon brunette haired gun totin' aryan queen!
hey...it only takes a few martyr seeking wackos to carry out the hatred and fear in the hearts of tens of millions for evil to win, darin...
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 6:34pm
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 10/27/2008 @ 6:31pm | ignore this person | warn this person
"uh he's no...he's not...uh...he's an A-rab..."
"kill him!!!!"
"off with his head!!!"
how many more nutty fascist warriors stand ready to get all "turner diaries" and stand up for their fellow palin/mccain supporters?
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 6:41pm
I assume you are talking about the tens of millions of pentagon-bombing domestic terrorists that make up the Democrat base.
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 10/27/2008 @ 6:38pm | ignore this person | warn this person
nah...haven't seen lefty domestic wacko violence since the days of the SLA...what, 30+ years ago?
righty wacko domestic violence? less than a decade ago...
ruby ridges, messianic gun totin' martyr fantasizin' child molester in waco, oklahomah city, eric rudolph and abortion clinic bombers...
those guys are still around. been quiet for about...8 years since they had their own in power, but...
now like cornered vicious beasts they see all their hypocritical red white and blue "gawd bless thuh yeeooo ess ayyy" fascist dreams swirling down the shitter of history and WATCH OUT AMERICA!!!!
THEY'RE BAAAACK!
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 6:48pm
ruby ridges, messianic gun totin' martyr fantasizin' child molester in waco, oklahomah city, eric rudolph and abortion clinic bombers...
OH OH OH!
and don't fergit them seccesionist rightwing polar militia types up in alaska!!!!
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 6:51pm
*grabs his fucking popcorn and watches the show even though he knows the outcome of the dexter666 and Darin_the_Troll exchange*
BAWHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Posted by Darth_Vulgar at 10/27/2008 @ 6:54pm
http://tinyurl.com/5edqwj
hmmm...think i found me a "PUMA"...
TAKES ALL KINDS...
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 6:58pm
http://tinyurl.com/3tkgt4
more fun folks...
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 7:19pm
http://tinyurl.com/5r53jz
john cleese on palin...
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 7:28pm
CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK - I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.
Sums up CEOs' view of themselves.
CONTINUITY - We're going to pretend this never happened.
Sums up the right-wingnuts' perception of reality.
EXPENDABILITY - Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Ensign Ricky are beaming down to the planet. Guess who's not coming back?
Sums up Corporate America's view of their employees.
LOGIC - Not as prevalent as you wish it were.
Sums up reality.
NOMAD - See the Universe, meet interesting people, and kill them.
Sums of the Bush Regime's foreign and military policies.
TANTALUS - You don't have to be crazy to work here, but it helps.
Sums up the Bush Regime.
KOBAYASHI MARU - It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose.
Sums up Rethuglicans during an election year.
NATIONAL PRIDE - Of course your country represents the pinnacle of cultural innovation. After all, they produced you, didn't they?
Sums up right-wingnuts perception of America and the world.
TALOS IV - Why does this place get such a bad rap? All these guys want is the whole of your physical and emotional existence. That's no different from working for a corporation, except instead of Casual Fridays these guys give you virtual sex.
I don't think this ones needs any explanation.
FLAMBOYANCE - When you're fabulous, you're fabulous. Don't hide your light under a bushel just because people can't handle how fierce you are.
Sums up CEOs' as they flaunt their money to the very people who's hard work made it possible.
THE PRIME DIRECTIVE - These people are so beautiful and happy and peaceful. Let's destroy their machine-god and teach them how to kill and screw.
Sums up Bush Regime's foreign policies again.
Source: http://echosp
Posted by Darth_Vulgar at 10/27/2008 @ 8:25pm
Source: http://echosphere.net/star_trek_insp/star_trek_insp.html
Posted by Darth_Vulgar at 10/27/2008 @ 8:26pm
Posted by Darth_Vulgar at 10/27/2008 @ 8:25pm | ignore this person | warn this person
nerds of the world unite!!!!
;) lol....
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 9:03pm
Damn Skippy! Whoever the fuck Skippy is.
Posted by Darth_Vulgar at 10/27/2008 @ 9:14pm
He's outta there!
Sixty baby. Stamp it!
Universal health care. Tax cuts for almost everybody. Green laws. An activist supreme court. Protectionism. Gun control.
Stamp. Stamp. Stamp.
Happy days are here again.
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/27/2008 @ 9:23pm
Happy days are here again.
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/27/2008 @ 9:23pm | ignore this person | warn this person
aw yeah baby!!!
except...probably not much on gun control, and not unlike the thirties we will likely have a conservative scotus for quite some time.
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 9:26pm
bye bye teddy...
Posted by dexter666 at 10/27/2008 @ 4:58pm
DOWN THE TUBES!
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/27/2008 @ 9:27pm
Universal health care.
no money.
Tax cuts for almost everybody.
no money.
Green laws.
no money to enforce them.
An activist supreme court.
that will make america gay.
Protectionism.
a very, very bad idea.
Gun control.
you are dreaming in colour.
Stamp. Stamp. Stamp.
plop, plop, fizz, fizz.
Happy days are here again.
it's october.
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/27/2008 @ 9:23pm
nonetheless, it will be nice to have the glass half-full.......
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/27/2008 @ 9:36pm
River, Obama had enough background from Harvard Law School to teach Constitutional law at U of Chicago. I've had Con Law myself and I think Obama was right to characterize the Constitution as in good part an enumeration of negatives. Especially if you look at the amendments, you see wording like "shall not deny," "without," etc. They tend to protect people from government but the protection didn't reach to individuals until the 14th Amendment was used to extend the Bill of Rights to people for protection from state action. It was this that the Warren Court was especially responsible for. Since people are usually more affected by state action than federal action, the Warren Court extension was crucial in adding to the rights of millions of people. If Obama is glad that we have these legal protections, that's GOOD. If he wins next week, we may have a President with real understanding of the Constitution.
Posted by mimsky at 10/27/2008 @ 9:41pm
oh, katha...
don't be nervous; open up the comments. democracy and such.....
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/27/2008 @ 9:55pm
"You get a passport for the first time in your life last year? I mean, I don't know what you can say. You can't say anything.... I think they ought to be just honest about it and stop the nonsense about, 'I look out my window and I see Russia and so therefore I know something about Russia.' ... That kind of thing is insulting to the American people.... [I]n a world that is so complicated, so interconnected and so combustible, you really got to have some people in charge that have some sense of the bigger scope of the world. ... I think that's just a requirement."
-- al franken
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/27/2008 @ 10:01pm
oops, sorry.
not franken, hagel.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/27/2008 @ 10:02pm
Posted by Darth_Vulgar at 10/27/2008 @ 8:25pm
Kirk: [War] is instinctive. But the instinct can be fought. We're human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands! But we can stop it. We can admit that we're killers ... but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes! Knowing that we're not going to kill - today!
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/27/2008 @ 10:28pm
Posted by RedRiver_. at 10/27/2008 @ 10:43pm
LOL...so Obama is both a Communist AND a Nazi?
Is that kind of like how he's "into black liberation Christianity" AND "a Muslim"?
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/27/2008 @ 11:03pm
Hitler.
Posted by RedRiver_. at 10/27/2008 @ 10:43pm
can't you pick some other loco. there's plenty.
colonel green or kahless the unforgettable come to mind.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/27/2008 @ 11:08pm
BTW, RED....
Titus 3:2
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/27/2008 @ 11:08pm
NEVERIDEALOGICALNOFOOLSFRAUDGULLIBLEFOOL
Posted by RedRiver_. at 10/27/2008 @ 10:43pm
i couldn't agree more.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/27/2008 @ 11:10pm
Titus 3:2
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/27/2008 @ 11:08pm
what on earth...
it's currently titus 17, colts 14
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/27/2008 @ 11:12pm
Titus 24, Colts 14
Posted by Balrog at 10/27/2008 @ 11:20pm
titus 31, former colts 14
damn, rio you beat me to it.
mask, titus 3:2 only works if those mentioned in titus 3:1 follow titus 3:2
"At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures."
Ώ‘Ώat one time?!?
We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another.
Ώ‘Ώlived?!?
But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared,
i sure hope he comes back soon. kindly, that is.
he saved us,
hey, thanks god.
not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy.
that's nice. i still try to do good things, though. does god have karma?
He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.
this one's been cool so far.
This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things,
go on,
so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good.
larry, oh, larry...
These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.
pay forward, they say.
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law,
this part is so palin.
because these are unprofitable and useless.
fivethirtyeight.com/
Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time.
and if that doesn't work?
After that, have nothing to do with him.
you mean, we're not supposed to "take 'em out"
You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.
ooh, god knows a thing or two about karma.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/27/2008 @ 11:41pm
What part of this do YOU have the most problem with?"
Posted by RedRiver_. at 10/27/2008 @ 11:27pm
The part where I'm expected to live my life based on a silly book of fables.
Posted by Balrog at 10/27/2008 @ 11:44pm
Woman alleges Frost had sex with her at age 16
Updated Mon. Oct. 27 2008 9:45 PM ET
The Canadian Press
≤≤≤≤≥≥≥≥
hey! that's slander!
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/27/2008 @ 11:48pm
Check this shit out.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/27/phony-va-election-flier/
Posted by Darth_Vulgar at 10/27/2008 @ 11:57pm
John Nichols writes..."UPDATE: While the Alaska Democratic Party is calling on Stevens to step down,"
How ironic! William Jefferson gets re-elected and placed on various congressional committees...and note, no calls from democrats to step down. Typical democrat M.O.
Posted by usc1 at 10/28/2008 @ 12:02am
How ironic! William Jefferson gets re-elected and placed on various congressional committees...and note, no calls from democrats to step down. Typical democrat M.O.
Posted by usc1 at 10/28/2008 @ 12:02am
1) On 15 June 2006, House Democrats voted to strip Jefferson of his committee assignment while the federal bribery investigation continued. Following Jefferson's reelection in Nov 2006, Speaker-elect Nancy Pelosi announced that he will not regain his seat on the Ways and Means Committee as long as he is not "cleared of wrongdoing in an ongoing federal corruption probe
2) Stevens was convicted. Jefferson has merely been indicted.
3) Next time, come to class prepared.
Posted by Balrog at 10/28/2008 @ 12:09am
Stevens: 7 felony convictions.
Jefferson: 0 convictions.
Posted by Balrog at 10/28/2008 @ 12:11am
still, mr. jefferson's pretty slimy.
"A few days after Hurricane Katrina hit, Jefferson utilized a National Guard detachment to recover personal effects and belongings from his home. After the truck in which he and the detachment traveled became stuck, the Guard helicopter aided Jefferson's party while rescue operations where still ongoing."
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/28/2008 @ 12:13am
that's funny.
for about a year i have been predicting that gas prices would be way down in time for the election.
i hadn't imagined it would be quite like this, however.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/28/2008 @ 12:18am
I have no need nor interest in your pity, Rio. Save it for someone that needs it...like the Republican Party.
Posted by Balrog at 10/28/2008 @ 12:24am
I would never tell anyone to go to hell that obviously already has reservations!
Posted by RedRiver_. at 10/28/2008 @ 12:22am
"Judge not, lest you be judged." Try living up to that book you allegedly believe in.
Posted by Balrog at 10/28/2008 @ 12:26am
Don't need reason
Don't need rhyme
Ain't nothin' that I'd rather do
[j/k, god]
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/28/2008 @ 12:36am
Now that is really dumb! I made NO judgement but, merely took your own words at face value! Were you lieing>
Posted by RedRiver_. at 10/28/2008 @ 12:35am
You made the judgement that I have reservations in hell. Looks like you are the one that is lying...and according to your mythology, you can go to hell for lying.
I'll save you a nice cozy warm spot, close to the fires.
Posted by Balrog at 10/28/2008 @ 12:42am
Posted by Balrog at 10/28/2008 @ 12:26am
Why bother with that stupid asshole?
Ignored!
Posted by TexasFlood at 10/28/2008 @ 12:43am
Why bother with that stupid asshole?
Ignored!
Posted by TexasFlood at 10/28/2008 @ 12:43am
Batman, the movie.
Jim Carrey, the Riddler: "WAAIIT!!! Dooon't kill im!! If you kill im, he won't learn nuthin!"
Posted by Benchrest at 10/28/2008 @ 12:49am
REDRIVER is like that angry ADHD kid everybody had in their fifth grade class, running around screaming and shouting and disrupting the entire class.
It's not like it's a worthwhile disruption, he's just ruining everybody else's time.
Don't feed the troll!
Posted by TexasFlood at 10/28/2008 @ 12:49am
Posted by Benchrest at 10/28/2008 @ 12:49am
LOL
Well while you have a point, do you see him LEARNING something?
I mean really, think about what kind of person comes around just to be a contrarian idiot? Consider what sort of demented asshole actually wastes whatever precious time they may have in a given day doing such a thing.
I guess he just has a lot of free time.
It's like running screaming into a Sean Hannity blog and expecting all the right-wingers to suddenly see the light of your wonderful perception on things.
"Back in the day" people that dumb, and deluded, would have never made it past their 20th birthday without being mauled to death by a bear.
Don't waste your time.
Posted by TexasFlood at 10/28/2008 @ 12:53am
Don't feed the troll!
Posted by TexasFlood at 10/28/2008 @ 12:49am
RIOBRAVO/REDRIVER has been here many years.
He is not a troll.
He will debate your ass off, which is why everyone is here.
Grow a pair.
Posted by Benchrest at 10/28/2008 @ 12:58am
I mean if you're looking for practice, you can just use me as an attack dummy.
Here ya go:
Blahblahblippityblah random bible scripture, blahboopglip racial epithet, aballahwalla americans are stupid. buballaswallakalla marxists, libz, blacks, mexicans!
Proceed.
Posted by TexasFlood at 10/28/2008 @ 12:58am
Posted by Benchrest at 10/28/2008 @ 12:58am
Grow a pair?
LOL
While my pair is large enough (thanks for asking) I would rather read/participate in something that isn't chock full of insane religious fanaticism and blind ideology.
There's a difference between debate, and running one's mouth and never responding to ANYTHING in a sensible manner.
I know who riobravo is, no worries.
Posted by TexasFlood at 10/28/2008 @ 01:01am
As evidenced by such gems as:
I would never tell anyone to go to hell that obviously already has reservations!
Posted by RedRiver_. at 10/28/2008 @ 12:22am
Now that is really dumb! I made NO judgement but, merely took your own words at face value! Were you lieing>
Posted by RedRiver_. at 10/28/2008 @ 12:35am
Completely contradicting himself, while being batshit insane, all within a whole 13 minutes.
I know I'm basically arguing against my own point by wasting this much time on him, but everybody's a hypocrite sometime eh?
Posted by TexasFlood at 10/28/2008 @ 01:03am
I know who riobravo is, no worries.
Posted by TexasFlood at 10/28/2008 @ 01:01am
It is much more interesting watching you two debate, than watching you ignore one another.
Crossing blades with someone you despise, and vice versa, makes the blog worth reading.
Otherwise, no fun = no posters.
Posted by Benchrest at 10/28/2008 @ 01:05am
1) On 15 June 2006, House Democrats voted to strip Jefferson of his committee assignment while the federal bribery investigation continued. Following Jefferson's reelection in Nov 2006, Speaker-elect Nancy Pelosi announced that he will not regain his seat on the Ways and Means Committee as long as he is not "cleared of wrongdoing in an ongoing federal corruption probe
2) Stevens was convicted. Jefferson has merely been indicted.
3) Next time, come to class prepared.
Posted by Balrog at 10/28/2008 @ 12:09am
1) (ahem) WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Eight months after Louisiana Rep. William Jefferson was ousted from the powerful House Ways and Means Committee for allegedly chilling stacks of dubious cash in his freezer, his Democratic colleagues voted to give him a seat on the Homeland Security Committee. (What was that Pelosi said about draining the swamp?)
2) Indicted, not convicted...hmmm, cash in the freezer, bribes caught on tape, aides pleading guilty...silly me...To think we might want to wait to see how the investigation turns out before we appoint him to the committee over HOMELAND SECURITY.
3) You hypocrites DID re-elect him, didn't you?
4) Class dismissed.
Posted by usc1 at 10/28/2008 @ 01:17am
Sorry, I did not realize you believe nothing in the Holy Bible, except its value for your use of it as a weapon against those who do believe it.
Posted by RedRiver_. at 10/28/2008 @ 12:59am
Just hoisting you on your own petard, Rio. If you don't like it, I suggest you stop waving it in everyone's face.
Posted by Balrog at 10/28/2008 @ 01:38am
Posted by RedRiver_. at 10/27/2008 @ 10:43pm
Rio, it was your Dear Leader's granddad who helped bankroll Hitler. Obama's grandfather fought Hitler. You're the one who supported the shredder of the Constitution. In doing so, you supported its shredding. The Warren Court acted constitutionally, time and time again. As for Rehnquist's court, would you like to explain to the class George Bush's 14th Amendment standing in 2000? Would you like to further explain to the class why, as a constitutional matter, that decision cannot be used as precedence?
Really, man, as you've shown yourself a supporter of fascism, it's more than a little disingenuous to read your screeds on Hitler and the Constitution.
Posted by jmusolino at 10/28/2008 @ 01:47am
Posted by usc1 at 10/28/2008 @ 01:17am
1) Well done. I didn't know he had been appointed to another committe.
2) Innocent until proven guilty, but, to be fair, at least Stevens resigned his committee seat when he was indicted.
3) I don't live in Louisiana.
4) I'll bring an apple for the next class.
Posted by Balrog at 10/28/2008 @ 01:50am
It's like running screaming into a Sean Hannity blog
Posted by TexasFlood at 10/28/2008 @ 12:53am
ooh, that sounds like fun.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/28/2008 @ 01:57am
Ted Stevens, the most repulsive redneck persona of anyone in that hallowed hall. He makes Mitch McConnell look like Brother Juniper. Fear not, TS, there's a place for you in the House of Wax-Gallery of Horrors.
Posted by Sorelish at 10/28/2008 @ 01:58am
Crossing blades with someone you despise, and vice versa, makes the blog worth reading.
Posted by Benchrest at 10/28/2008 @ 01:05am
Z
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/28/2008 @ 01:59am
that was one of them zorro deals.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/28/2008 @ 01:59am
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
"The plants and flowers that Henry David Thoreau lovingly inventoried around Walden Pond 156 years ago are disappearing due to climate change. Researchers from Harvard and Boston Universities have tracked how warming temperatures have shifted the flowering times of 473 plant species in the woods at Walden Pond and elsewhere in Concord. Orchids, dogwoods, lilies, and many sunflower relatives are declining more swiftly than other species."
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/28/2008 @ 02:51am
Posted by RedRiver_. at 10/27/2008 @ 11:27pm
So, RED, the way Christianity works to you is....if "nobody around you is a Christian, you don't have to be one either"?!??!?!?!?!??
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/28/2008 @ 07:07am
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 10/28/2008 @ 07:02am
Darin, I don't see your "history lesson" as disputing all of what dexter said.
OKC bombing and Eric Rudolph killed people in the name of an extremist right-wing ideology....how many have ELF, Greenpeace, or WTO protestors killed?
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/28/2008 @ 07:12am
Titus 3:2 Posted by Maskdelta at 10/27/2008 @ 11:08pm
what on earth...
it's currently titus 17, colts 14 Posted by frosty zoom at 10/27/2008 @ 11:12pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Titus 24, Colts 14
Posted by Balrog at 10/27/2008 @ 11:20pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Spit my cocoa! Gosh that was funnee!!
RIO- remember to give the new president the honor he deserves as an authority figure...and CIC.
----
1) (ahem) WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Eight months after Louisiana Rep. William Jefferson was ousted from the powerful House Ways and Means Committee for allegedly chilling stacks of dubious cash in his freezer, his Democratic colleagues voted to give him a seat on the Homeland Security Committee. (What was that Pelosi said about draining the swamp?)
Where else do you put corrupt congressmen, except on Chimpies payroll? HS is THE place to be if one wishes to enrich oneself at the public trough. Just ask Eric Prince, Neil Bush, Bucky Bush and friends.
----
I think it's a riot that STILL, after 7 years of BS, the cons still don't understand the difference between being GUILTY and being charged. And they want to lecture on the constitution! Too rich.
Posted by crabwalk at 10/28/2008 @ 07:52am
"s for "terrorism" both Waco and Ruby Ridge involved Federal agents attempting arrests on private property. There was no "terrorism" involved nor alledged."-DARIN
Ruby Ridge was a catastrophe..
Waco was terrorism. Federal agents were serving valid warrants, and were gunned down in cold blood. If Koresh had been to the left of the spectrum you would be beside yourself trying to link him to Obama.
Posted by crabwalk at 10/28/2008 @ 07:56am
OKC bombing and Eric Rudolph killed people in the name of an extremist right-wing ideology....how many have ELF, Greenpeace, or WTO protestors killed? Posted by Maskdelta at 10/28/2008 @ 07:12am
"0"
How many civilians have Darins war policies killed in the last 6 years?
Posted by crabwalk at 10/28/2008 @ 07:59am
The cons have taught us at least one thing, bombing to achieve results is OK.
Posted by crabwalk at 10/28/2008 @ 08:01am
I would never tell anyone to go to hell that obviously already has reservations!
Posted by RedRiver_. at 10/28/2008 @ 12:22am
Judgemental. Try something else.
Posted by Truthman at 10/28/2008 @ 08:10am
Why bother with that stupid asshole?
Ignored!
Posted by TexasFlood at 10/28/2008 @ 12:43am Yea, now thats the christians I know and love!
Posted by Truthman at 10/28/2008 @ 08:13am
Yea, now thats the christians I know and love!
Posted by Truthman at 10/28/2008 @ 08:13am That was a compliment.
Posted by Truthman at 10/28/2008 @ 08:22am
Posted by Balrog at 10/28/2008 @ 01:50am
No need for the apple...I'll probably have to eat my words if (when) Stevens gets re-elected. I find myself in the curious position of rooting against the republican incumbent (but not FOR the democrat...haha)...we can both agree that there is no place for these kinds of shady characters in government...democrat or Republican.
Posted by usc1 at 10/28/2008 @ 08:52am
GOP WARNS OF ONE-PARTY POWER.
ha ha.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/28/2008 @ 09:36am
Posted by crabwalk at 10/28/2008 @ 07:52am
I think it's a riot that democrats think cronyism is confined to the Republican party and not government in general.
Republicans don't know the difference between being charged and being guilty? Aaaand how many times have Bush/Cheney been called crooks, criminals, and worse on this very website? Aaaand what crimes have they been charged with, let alone convicted? Et tu Brute?
Anyway...kinda missed the point, dintya?
Posted by usc1 at 10/28/2008 @ 09:36am
Dex, you been schooled.
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 10/28/2008
clichιs are cheesy, darin.
especially when you're wrong.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/28/2008 @ 09:43am
Z
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/28/2008 @ 01:59am
Your sword is one of the sharpest of all.
frosty zorro zoom. It fits!
Then there is Mask with his light saber and phaser rifle.
Posted by Benchrest at 10/28/2008 @ 09:46am
Anyway...kinda missed the point, dintya?
Posted by usc1 at 10/28/2008 @ 09:36am
ew, palinspeak.
<i>Betcha by golly wow.....
You're the one that I've been waiting for... </i>
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/28/2008 @ 09:47am
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/28/2008 @ 09:36am
It's even more hypocritical, FZ.
I heard Hannity yesterday bemoaning how "Democrats will use their power to make it so they are PERMANENTLY in power!".....
Ya think any of the "Hannitized" remembers Karl Rove dreaming of a "permanent majority" in 2002????
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/28/2008 @ 09:49am
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/27/2008 @ 4:53pm "Palin's spokesperson just issued a statement declaring Governor Palin never met, nor has even HEARD of this so-called "Senator Ted Stevens" and he's likely something just made-up by the elite liberal media to run down the good, honest, hard-working Joe-the-Six-Plumber-Pack, hockey moms who buy clothes at thrift shops Alaskans who have never heard of this "Ted Stevens" either..."
Where did you hear this?
I found the following statement by Palin from CNN: "This is a sad day for Alaska and a sad day for Senator Stevens and his family," she said on the tarmac at Richmond International Airport. "The verdict shines a light on the corrupting influence of the big oil service company up there in Alaska that was allowed to control too much of our state. And that control was part of the culture of corruption that I was elected to fight, and that fight must always move forward regardless of party affiliation or seniority or even past service.
"As Governor of the State of Alaska, I will carefully now monitor the situation and I'll take any appropriate action as needed. In the meantime, I ask the people of Alaska to join me in respecting the workings of our judicial system and I'm confident that Senator Stevens from this point on will do the right thing for the people of Alaska," she said.
Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 10:02am
THE HOLY GRAIL
THE SARAH PALIN SWIMSUIT COMPETITION VIDEO
IT DOES EXIST:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSdFIDygFwM
Posted by leftofcenter at 10/28/2008 @ 10:11am
Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 10:02am
Sorry, jayne, I forgot humor isn't your strong point.
But look at what Palin DID say...
1. She expressed sadness for Stevens first...not celebration or even just simple acknowledgement of the conviction of a corrupt politician.
2. She then acted like she was somehow "fighting" Stevens' style of corruption...when in fact, she was a strong ally and had "an association" (sound familiar) with him.
3. Then pap over "nobody read too much into this...take a deep breath...let the process work out....and HOPEFULLY Stevens will step aside and not embarass me further by staying in the election until the bitter end!"
All of which is disengenuous given her ACTUAL relation with Stevens, what she DIDN'T do to "fight the corruption" that he was involved in, and obviously trying to distance herself from him and act like she was somehow working against it, instead of being a co-dependent enabler of him.
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/28/2008 @ 10:12am
we can both agree that there is no place for these kinds of shady characters in government...democrat or Republican.
Posted by usc1 at 10/28/2008 @ 08:52am |
HEAR! HEAR!
Posted by usc1 at 10/28/2008 @ 09:36amRE: Bush felonies.
In the case of Chimpy and Howler Monkey, they have used the might of the federal bureaocracy to fend off attempts to dig into their crminal activities. Their agents have refused supbeonas. And, Chimpy has been found in violation of several US laws by different courts, including the Supreme Court.
Posted by crabwalk at 10/28/2008 @ 10:15am
A lot fewer number than the number of civilians that were murdered under Saddam (400,000)
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 10/28/2008 @ 10:13am
How do you know that?
and does the number killed by Saddam regime include those killed while you supported Reagans support of Saddams regime?
Posted by crabwalk at 10/28/2008 @ 10:16am
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 10/28/2008 @ 10:12am
Darin, curious about something...
if a tactic isn't working in battle, would you keep trying it?
Obviously, I ask, because McCain tried Ayers-Obama in the last debate (or was it the second) (after first saying "It didn't matter to him...and then going on about it for nearly 90 minutes...heheh)...
and his polling got WORSE.
Or has it just gotten to be like some kind of "Whitewater/Gennifer Flowers" meme on right-wing radio and bloggers....and you'll still be talking about William Ayers 2-3 years into a potential Obama Presidency?!?!??!??
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/28/2008 @ 10:17am
Darin, you don't think that killing federal agents in cold blood and holding children hostage for weeks while holding off the FBI and ATF at gunpoint are acts of terrorism?
See, I think that if a member of the SLA or Earth First had done something similar, you would be all over it labeling it domestic terrorism.
Posted by crabwalk at 10/28/2008 @ 10:21am
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/28/2008 @ 10:12am
I didn't realize you had such insight into my sense of humor, but fyi text often doesn't translate sarcasm well. Your posts of fact are sometimes followed by a "haha" or "hehe" as in "haha got ya there" kinda way. Clarification is always good, because someone just reading you post mght think Palin's spokeperson actually said that.
Re: the fake assault on a McCain supporter (before we knew it was fake) An Obama spokesperson issued a statement saying that Obama thinks the woman may have instigated the attack. ;) j/k
I thoroughly enjoy humor and understand it quite well. Just last night my brother-in-law had me laughing so hard my sides actually hurt. :D
"She expressed sadness for Stevens first"
So now being sensitive and expressing sympathy for the man's family is bad/wrong somehow?
"...and obviously trying to distance herself from him"
Of course she is. The same way Obama has distanced himself from his previous negative associations. I don't know the extent of her association with Stevens, but I'm sure she worked with him, since he's a rep of her state, just as did many who worked on committees with him.
Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 10:36am
Darin Stevens was found guilty of graft. Do you have anything to say to that issue, without bringing up Jefferson, Ayers Waco or other obfuscations?
Posted by crabwalk at 10/28/2008 @ 10:48am
Koresh's agenda was to draw attention to his cause of freedom of religion. Had he been a ELF member, warlock or Muslim you would call him a terrorist, I think.
Posted by crabwalk at 10/28/2008 @ 10:54am
Posted by crabwalk at 10/28/2008 @ 10:48am
I just got a mental image of Darrin Stevens from "Bewitched" yelling "Sam"!
Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 10:54am
From iReport:
Palin's Ties to VECO and Senator Ted Stevens
Just this past week, indicted Senator Ted Stevens endorsed Sarah Palin as VP. As you may recall, on July 29, Stevens was indicted by a Federal Grand Jury following a lengthy investigation by both the FBI and the IRS for possible corruption involving his relationship with Bill Allen, former CEO of VECO, who has pled guilty to bribing Alaskan legislators, including Stevens' son. A majority of the Federal Grand Jury indictment focuses on an "extensive" remodeling project at Stevens' home. The remodeling work, which more than doubled the size of Stevens' modest home, occurred in the Summer of 2000 and was organized by VECO corporation, an oil-field service company that has strong lobbying ties in Juneau. Earlier in May of 2007, two top VECO executives pleaded guilty to federal conspiracy, bribery and tax charges (Bill Allen and Rick Smith. So, you might ask, how is Sarah Palin tied to Senator Stevens, and even more importantly, VECO? Well here you go...when Sarah Palin ran for Lieutenant Governor of Alaska in 2002 (ultimately losing) she gathered $5,000 (or 10% of her campaign fund) from VECO officials and/or their wives (public information), including $500 directly from Bill Allen (yes, the Bill Allen above who pleaded guilty to Federal charges of bribery and was forced to resign) including expensive gifts over the years, including a Viking gas grill and a new tool shed full of tools. Was Palin also bought by VECO? Why hasn't Palin returned those contributions following the guilty plea of Bill Allen?
Posted by Metteyya at 10/28/2008 @ 11:02am
VECO has now been tied to corruption charges involving Senator Ted Stevens, Congressman Don Young, State Senator John Cowdery, State Senate President Ben Stevens, State Representative Vic Kohring, State Representative Bruce Weyhrauch, State Senator Don Olson, and State Representative Pete Kott. Is Sarah Palin next?
Posted by Metteyya at 10/28/2008 @ 11:03am
That's the beautiful thing about America. You are allowed to be wrong.
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 10/28/2008
Bush's motto?
Posted by crabwalk at 10/28/2008 @ 11:15am
Just a note... Veco has past associations with Dems as well as Repubs.
From the Anchorage Daily News:
"Veco had a way of backing winners. Company officials supported Democrat Tony Knowles as governor with $23,000, and Knowles put [Veco chief executive Bill] Allen on his economic development transition team in 1994. Veco switched back to Republicans, backing Frank Murkowski for governor in 2002 and his daughter, Lisa, in her race against Knowles for U.S. Senate in 2004."
Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 11:17am
Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 11:17am
Power corrupts.
Too bad a vote for the guy that has never taken a bribe is considered a "wasted vote" by so many sheep.
Posted by crabwalk at 10/28/2008 @ 11:31am
"Power corrupts."
Absolutely!
And no vote is ever a wasted vote. The vote not cast is the only one wasted. Believing otherwise is simply apathy.
Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 11:34am
Of course she is. The same way Obama has distanced himself from his previous negative associations.----Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 10:36am
Wait a minute, jayne. On the OTHER thread, you said there was no comparison....now there is a "Palin-Stevens"/"Obama-Ayers" comparison?!?!??!?
(Careful, whatever you say about one, can be used for the other! Friendly warning!)
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/28/2008 @ 12:09pm
3) I'll only be talking about Ayers if Obama appoints him to AG or SCOTUS.---------Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 10/28/2008 @ 10:38am
Fair enuf....
stashed that post in the Archives.
(Sorry...no "take-backs" now...heheh)
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/28/2008 @ 12:11pm
That's the beautiful thing about America. You are allowed to be wrong.
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 10/28/2008
and still get to live in the white house for 8 years.
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/28/2008 @ 12:12pm
Oh, DTT, remember?
"The first resort of a sore loser is to gripe about how the game itself was unfair, how the other team doesn't play nice, how the very act of winning is all the proof necessary that the other side will "do anything" to win. The second resort is to simply make junk up about the other guy that makes you feel better about yourself."----Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 10/14/2008 @ 1:00pm
A Well-Deserved Prize for An Outspoken Liberal posted by Christopher Hayes on 10/14/2008 @ 10:46am
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/28/2008 @ 12:13pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/28/2008 @ 12:09pm
"Wait a minute, jayne. On the OTHER thread, you said there was no comparison....now there is a "Palin-Stevens"/"Obama-Ayers" comparison?!?!??!?"
Which thread was that?
"(Careful, whatever you say about one, can be used for the other! Friendly warning!)"
Anyway, I'm not directly comparing the two situtions (there are differences I won't go into), but I was comparing their reactions as politicians. What politician in his/her right mind wouldn't distance him/herself from a negative associate, past or present? It's done equally by candidates of all parties and is expected in this situation as well. That's all I'm saying.
Why ridicule Palin for doing what another candidate did, unless you think what he said was just as mush of a ruse?
Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 12:30pm
oops..."just as much of a ruse?"
Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 12:35pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/28/2008 @ 12:13pm
ROFLMAO.
Posted by crabwalk at 10/28/2008 @ 12:59pm
Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 12:30pm
Oh, okay, maybe I owe you an apology...
maybe you DON'T ascribe to the "Obama pals around with terrorists" stuff?
???
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/28/2008 @ 1:05pm
Worse than 8 years of Chimpy McFlightsuit...?
a cruise with KVH dressed as a "sexy" pirate
Posted by crabwalk at 10/28/2008 @ 1:15pm
"Wait a minute, jayne. On the OTHER thread, you said there was no comparison....now there is a "Palin-Stevens"/"Obama-Ayers" comparison?!?!??!?"
Again, which thread was that? I'm still curious...
Obama has some "questionable" associations in his past, but I'd wager nothing any worse than any other politician out there.
The point of the original post was to call you out on the hypocrisy of saying she's "disengenuous" for doing precisely what the candidate you support did (and any other candidate for that matter).
Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 1:19pm
of course he is going to keep running and why not ---wasnt marion berry reeclected after he got out of jail
Posted by lougee1043 at 10/28/2008 @ 1:32pm
Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 1:19pm
Okay, so again, you have no problem with Obama and Bill Ayers?
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/28/2008 @ 1:46pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/28/2008 @ 1:46pm
I don't think Obama is a terrorist. Is that what you're trying to get me to say?
. . .
"On the OTHER thread, you said there was no comparison....now there is a "Palin-Stevens"/"Obama-Ayers" comparison?!?!??!?"
Again, again, which thread was that? I'm dying to know...or was there no such comment on another thread?
Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 2:00pm
But given that they refused to surrender, by firing on federal agents they were no more guilty of terrorism than a bank robber or a car jacker who fires on police.
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 10/28/2008 @ 10:31am | ignore this person | warn this person
passive aggresive, messianic, rightwing martyr style terrorism.
break the laws of the land and DARE the authorities to come enforce them, thereby martyrizing you.
you should be ashamed of yourself for supporting terrorism, darin.
Posted by dexter666 at 10/28/2008 @ 2:16pm
I think it's fairly clear that the definition of terrorism is a subjective one. It has been since the origination of the term hundreds of years ago. Still today, the definition is fluid and can be used by either side against the other.
Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 2:25pm
<i>Betcha by golly wow.....
You're the one that I've been waiting for... </i>
Posted by frosty zoom at 10/28/2008 @ 09:47am
Chi-lites?
Posted by k330k at 10/28/2008 @ 2:48pm
Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 2:00pm
No, I'm trying to get you to say ...what you MEAN.
Again, are you giving a pass to BOTH Palin for Stevens and Obama for Ayers because "What politician in his/her right mind wouldn't distance him/herself from a negative associate, past or present? It's done equally by candidates of all parties and is expected in this situation as well."?
If so, then you must have no problem with the whole "Ayers" flap at all (not just "I don't think Obama is a terrorist", which not even LIMBAUGH tries to pull off)....
if you DO have a problem with Obama and Ayers' "association"....then you're just making excuses for Palin, but want to keep the "association angle" for Obama...
ergo it's simple partisanship if not hypocrisy.
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/28/2008 @ 2:49pm
And no vote is ever a wasted vote. The vote not cast is the only one wasted. Believing otherwise is simply apathy.
Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 11:34am
Very true.
I think it's fairly clear that the definition of terrorism is a subjective one. It has been since the origination of the term hundreds of years ago. Still today, the definition is fluid and can be used by either side against the other.
Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 2:25pm
Very true as well.
Well, it's official. I like jayne.
Posted by k330k at 10/28/2008 @ 3:00pm
Stevens will be fine. He'll get that pension and health-care for life(at this point it looks like he needs it.) If he does get re-elected, I won't be surprised. He wouldn't be the first corrupt politician, Dem or Repub, whose constituents have voted him back in office.
Posted by k330k at 10/28/2008 @ 3:03pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/28/2008 @ 2:49pm
I point out your hypocrisy and you try to spin it so that I'm a hypocrit?! Come on Mask! You're better than that.
I revealed the hypocrisy of you saying she's "disengenuous" for doing precisely what Obama did and you just say you want to know what I MEAN? Pot...Kettle...you get the picture.
You also continually evade the question about where I said "there was no comparison" b/w Palin/Stevens and Obama/Ayers. Please point it out or conceed that I never said any such thing. Thanks :)
IMO, Palin/Stevens is worrisome when you consider the "ends justifies the means" aspect of a Palin vice-presidency. Obama/Ayers is worrisome because it makes me question Obama's judgement when it comes to who he allows in his circle of support and advisement.
So there ya go, BOTH associations worry me a bit.
Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 3:05pm
And yet, there's almost NO relationship between Obama and Ayers.
At least nothing that can be proved without a load of conjecture and bullshitting.
The only people that think otherwise are the same people that believe Obama is a secret muslim/socialist/marxist.
Tell me, Jayne, do you think that Barack Obama is a secret muslim/socialist/marxist?
Posted by TexasFlood at 10/28/2008 @ 3:16pm
IMO, Palin/Stevens is worrisome when you consider the "ends justifies the means" aspect of a Palin vice-presidency. Obama/Ayers is worrisome because it makes me question Obama's judgement when it comes to who he allows in his circle of support and advisement.
So there ya go, BOTH associations worry me a bit.-----Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 3:05pm
Well, THAT's fine too, jayne and NOT hypocritical.
But, you're still going to vote for McCain/Palin, right, regardless of your "worry"?
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/28/2008 @ 3:19pm
I'll rephrase that last question...
Does ANYBODY here think that Mr. Obama is a secret muslim/socialist/marxist?
Posted by TexasFlood at 10/28/2008 @ 3:25pm
Does ANYBODY here think that Mr. Obama is a secret muslim/socialist/marxist?
Posted by TexasFlood at 10/28/2008 @ 3:25pm
I don't. I wonder if lvlib does, though? He's been throwing the word "marxist" around alot lately.
Posted by k330k at 10/28/2008 @ 3:29pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/28/2008 @ 3:34pm
Does that mean we can classify the republicans as marxists, and socialists since they seem to exhibit some of the very same principles?
Or for that matter, what about the label of "fascist" since they do indeed show at least some of the symptoms of what make up fascism?
Posted by TexasFlood at 10/28/2008 @ 3:59pm
And remember, this comes from somebody who spent half his Sunday arguing that the GOP is in no way shape or form, truly fascist.
Posted by TexasFlood at 10/28/2008 @ 4:00pm
Although I wasn't really looking for input from YOU, Mr. Liberty since we all know you love to apply the marxist/socialist label all willy nilly, and I've never seen you show even a drop of objectivity EVER, but it should at least be interesting to see you contradict yourself.
Posted by TexasFlood at 10/28/2008 @ 4:04pm
I've said it once, I'll say it again...
If Barack Obama is a socialist or a marxist, you can feel free to slap me around and call me Susan.
He's about as socialist as George Bush is conservative.
Posted by TexasFlood at 10/28/2008 @ 4:09pm
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/28/2008 @ 3:19pm "Well, THAT's fine too, jayne and NOT hypocritical."
How did pointing out your hypocrisy ever make me hypocritical? btw, still waiting for the proof that I said anything about "there was no comparison" earlier. Or an apology...whatever.
"But, you're still going to vote for McCain/Palin, right, regardless of your "worry"?"
I've stated before how I vote. Not Dem nor Repub, but the issues. My little bit of worry about either candidate's associations don't directly affect my decision on voting the issues I regard as the most important.
Posted by jayneslilsis at 10/28/2008 @ 4:11pm
How many Republicans are or have proposed increasing taxes in order to give to others that don't pay taxes?
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/28/2008 @ 4:29pm
Must we relive the bailout?
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 10/28/2008 @ 4:53pm
Having strong cultural values and a strong sense of nationalism does not constitute fascism.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/28/2008 @ 4:29pm
Just like wanting certain safety nets and intelligent government action does not make you a socialist.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 10/28/2008 @ 6:21pm