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RedditWith the Republican Party experiencing a full-blown implosion, conservatives are grasping at straws in a desperate effort to bring down Barack Obama.
The latest fashionable right-wing conspiracy theory: Obama didn't write his memoir, Dreams from My Father, Bill Ayers did!
You can't make this stuff up--or, if you're a writer for the fringe website the American Thinker (a major promulgator of numerous Obama smears) I suppose you can. One of its contributors, Jack Cashill, compared Obama's memoir with Ayers' Fugitive Days and concluded that only the former Weatherman could've authored Obama's book (even though, for starters, Obama got the contract for his book in 1990 and didn't meet Ayers until 1995, the year his memoir came out).
Normally I'd just ignore such bogus drivel, except that Cashill's smear was picked up by Andy McCarthy of National Review, which still enjoys (perhaps unfairly) a modicum of respectability.
"Did Obama Write Dreams from My Father ... Or Did Ayers?" asked McCarthy on Saturday. "I don't want to feed into what sounds, at first blush, like Vince Fosteresque paranoia," McCarthy writes, and then goes on to do just that. (In case you've forgotten, some conservatives accused Bill Clinton of murdering his longtime friend, Vince Foster, in 1993.)
McCarthy's rant was too much for fellow National Review contributor Jonathan Adler, the director of the Center for Business Law and Regulation at Case Western University, to handle. Wrote Adler:
C'mon Andy. Giving credence to Jack Cashill's maybe-Ayers-wrote-Obama's-book theory is a bit much. This is even more outlandish than his stuff alleging a possible connection between Enron and Ron Brown's death. Even if Obama's book was ghost-written---and I've seen no evidence that it was--fingering Ayers as the potential author is nutter-territory stuff.
Thus gave rise to a civil war at National Review's group blog, the Corner, over whether or not Obama wrote his own memoir. Responded McCarthy:
I resisted reading Cashill's analysis for a long time---and he's not the first to advance the idea that Obama did not write his book---because I didn't want to be accused of wading into what could be taken as nutter stuff. I was then persuaded that I should at least look at it with an open mind. I'm convinced it raises major questions. I tried to treat them in a serious way. I expected to get gruff, but I did hope it wouldn't come from my own (diminishing) ranks. But such is the way it is these days.
Yes, these days conservatives can call out other conservatives as lunatics. Get used to it, Andy. Responded Adler in round II:
It's still a giant leap to Cashill's suggestion that Ayers was the actual writer of Obama's book, his "analysis" notwithstanding. There are more serious issues at stake, and we can do better than that.
But can they? While the economy tanks and America plunges into recession, there's nothing but Ayers, Ayers, Ayers over at the Corner. Not so long ago, conservatives liked to brag about how they belonged to the "party of ideas." When those ideas run dry--or are actually implemented to disastrous effect (see Bush, George W.), conspiracy-mongering is all they have left.
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Gas prices down, stocks back up, McCain reinventing himself as underdog, Ohio rednecks' swinging into the red... Sure. Why not? A little swiftboat random filth for flavour.
Whatever it takes to keep the black man down, the middle class choking, and above all the corporatocracy marching on.
Posted by winyahn at 10/13/2008 @ 12:42pm
The repubs need to find out who in the Obama campaign silenced Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and enlist their help with these goons.
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/13/2008 @ 12:46pm
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/13/2008 @ 12:46pm
Anyboyd left who doubts bleeding is a GOP poser....read that again.
He takes an OBVIOUS slam against the Republican and Right by Mr Berman...
and tries to turn it into a slam against the Left (Jackson/Sharpton).
BH is a Republican...and a more than usual dishonest one!
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/13/2008 @ 12:51pm
On-topic....
at what point would an honest GOPer here admit that "Okay, yes...THAT is desperation, I admit it."
Sounds as if there are still a few left at National Review (as well as David Brooks, David Frum, Kathleen Parker, etc.)
But would you see a right-wing blogger admit that there is ANY wacko theory that is not "open for discussion and serious consideration"!?!??!?
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/13/2008 @ 12:54pm
>>>When those ideas run dry--or are actually implemented to disastrous effect (see Bush, George W.), conspiracy-mongering is all they have left.<<<
No, they have the RACE CARD left and will probably use it in these final weeks of this campaign to essentially say "vote for McCain because he is white".
When Hillary ran out of gas, that was her response in the final weeks of the primary campaign - appeal to racist voters and hope they forget about the kitchen table issues that are important to them.
Posted by Metteyya at 10/13/2008 @ 12:58pm
Sign this petition if you think McCain should stop talking about Obama and William Ayers...and start talking about the economy instead:
http://www.McCainPetition.com
Gregg
Posted by Greggegregg at 10/13/2008 @ 12:59pm
Obama passes 350 EC votes.
80 more than needed for victory.
No wonder the rightwing is desperate.
Now for 60 Dems in the Senate & the rightwing is buried for a generation.
The right is as bankrupt as the country that their owners have looted.
Posted by sloper at 10/13/2008 @ 1:06pm
"Now for 60 Dems in the Senate & the rightwing is buried for a generation."
Already Nancy is talking about a "stimulus package". This election is about CHANGE, we've already tried the Bush "stimulus packages". If the democrats don't CHANGE the way congress thinks, the generation will be measured in "bacteria" years.
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/13/2008 @ 1:23pm
The possibility that Ayers ghost wrote Obama’s book is not so terrible. Sorenson ghosted Kennedy’s, Profiles in Courage.
Revolting is the fact that Ayers spoke Obama’s language ideologically. They sat on the same foundation boards, they had the same friends, they practiced the same politics. When Obama made his first move into Chicago politics he was introduced to the local Hyde Park political establishment in Ayer’s living room. Obama announced his candidacy for the legislature from that living room. Yet now he says, Ayers was just someone who lived in the neighborhood.
I don’t know if anyone helped Obama write his book. But I do know for a certainty that he befriended and was politically allied with Ayers and Dohrn. He knew they were and are unrepentant Weathermen, who to this day say, they don’t regret waging revolution against the US and attempting to bomb US installations, they regret not having bombed enough.
I additionally know for a fact that Obama was for 20 years Reverent Jeremiah Wright’s acolyte. He called him his spiritual mentor and sounding board. He didn’t just attend Trinity United for 20 years; Wright became his close family friend, like a favorite uncle, to use Obama’s own description.
As such it is impossible to pretend Obama did not know Wright was a racist, a hater of white America, and of Jews and that he has paranoid convictions about the US govt. To such a man’s sermons Obama trooped most Sundays, never mind their private conversations. With such a man Obama remained good friends for 20 years.
At the same time we have Nichols of The Nation, and Carl Lewis of the Congress complaining, hands on hips, with righteous indignation, that the McCain camp is stirring up racial passions. Just how McCain is guilty of that is never specified, they just spit the charge as if it does not have to be proven.
Yet the evidence of Obama’s double talk, of his racists and radical left affiliations is patent and uncontrovertable. Mentioning this is what Nichols and Lewis consider hate mongering.
Posted by Hugo_Pirovano at 10/13/2008 @ 2:03pm
The National Review crowd are inclined to prevarication. Just because the hard core right wing nutjobs find them to be fastidious doesn't give them a pass. They were on top of the neo-con dog pile when things were going "right" & now they're bailing their hand-crafted canoes. What a joke.
Posted by Sorelish at 10/13/2008 @ 2:05pm
this is great. first he says:
"The possibility that Ayers ghost wrote Obama's book is not so terrible"
then later:
"I don't know if anyone helped Obama write his book"
and there we have it.....
Posted by darladoon at 10/13/2008 @ 2:06pm
They'll keep reaching until election day. The nutters come out of the wood work and all of a sudden gain legitimacy when a big loss is in sight.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 10/13/2008 @ 2:07pm
Jon Voight has joined the right wing fruit cakes with his "there is a socialist behind every door", conspiracy. Please don't call them conservatives they are to the right of Ghengis Kahn. Plutocrats with fascist tendencies. Voight and McCain think they are channeling Reagan when they are channeling Mortimer Snerd. A wooden puppet with saw dust for brains.
Posted by lachatte at 10/13/2008 @ 2:09pm
hugo-You do not know that Obama and Ayers are friends since there is no evidence of that.Conservative republicans sat on the same board and McCain,also,has had similar contact with less than reputable people.Palin is married to an anti US govt person who was a member of the AIP and has friends who are in the AIP,militia groups,and other anti govt groups.People stay in churches where preachers say loony things all the time.Not unusual.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/13/2008 @ 2:12pm
bill ayers and obama are friends. i don't understand why the leftists here are not proud of that fact. instead so many of them try to pretend they are not connected in any way.
why is that? is there something wrong with being philosophically related to ayers?
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 2:24pm
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 2:24pm
The connection is tenuous and has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Obama's policy initiative in his 8 years as a state senator or his 3 years as a US Senator.
To suggest that an "association" in and of itself is politically meaningful without connecting it to actual policy initiatives that are influenced by the association is DISTRACTION POLITICS, and simply won't work this time around.
Did you know Ayers was appointed to the same Board as Obama by a Reagan Republican? Why is no one talking about these "Republican" connections to Ayers?
Posted by Metteyya at 10/13/2008 @ 2:35pm
freiheit-There is no evidence that they are friends and you know that.You have delusional views of leftists,obviously.Even during the sixties the weatherman underground was condemned by most on the left.What about Palin's connection,through marriage and known friendships, to anti US government types?
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/13/2008 @ 2:38pm
Posted by bleedingheart at 10/13/2008 @ 1:23pm
I definitely agree with you here. Pelosi sucks doggy balls. She has no backbone whatsoever. She has not been a leader and definitely not a proponent of change. Her ass needs to go.
Posted by k330k at 10/13/2008 @ 3:02pm
Hugo_Pirovano
You are a fine example of what is wrong with conservatism in America today.
You defend the Republican tactic of tarring an obviously decent man with guilt by asociation, based on a few statements and actions of two individuals. Ignoring the long-term records of those two as socially responsible individuals.
And you vaguely accuse him of being a racist.
Yet, the main reason why you have a platform to claim such nonsense is worth considering is the Republican "southern strategy", an overtly racist exploitation of irrational fears that brought Richard Nixon, and several other Republican presidents, to the seat of power, and the authority that comes with it.
Your argument isn't simply illogical or stupid. It isn't even ironic. It's not illuminating in any way.
It's simply disgusting, after all the damage you people have done.
Posted by MyParadigm at 10/13/2008 @ 3:20pm
FREI, note the talking point used by Hugo_Pirovano (at 10/13/2008 @ 2:03pm)...
he doesn't say "friendship"...he says "associations".
Now you guys need to get it straight.
See,(everybody else) if they use "friendship", it isn't "menacing" enough. They've got to use "associations" to give the idea of Obama and Ayers in some back-room JUST WAITING for him to be elected so he can order an airstrike on our own Pentagon!!!!!
But buck up. All this indicates one absolute truth...
conservatives can't win on the issues anymore. Their Movement is in a coma.
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/13/2008 @ 3:21pm
Posted by Metteyya at 10/13/2008 @ 2:35pm
Exactly my point. There is nothing wrong with Obama being associated with Ayers. I'm contending that this should be applauded by you who see this as an enhancement of Obama's credibility. But, instead, you all seem to be threatened by it. Why?
I just wondered why you seem to be so put off by that characterization, as if there would be something wrong with Ayers hosting a campaign launch party for Obama in his home.
Here, like me, for instance, I frankly applaud Palin's husband for being a member in an anti-federal government group. I see no reason to play that down. That enhances her credibility as a candidate to me.
Why are you so afraid of the truth that Ayers and Obama have much in common? Isn't that a good thing?
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 3:56pm
From FactCheck.org:
McCain cranks out some false and misleading attacks on Obama's connection to a 1960s radical. Summary In a TV ad, McCain says Obama "lied" about his association with William Ayers, a former bomb-setting, anti-war radical from the 1960s and '70s. We find McCain's claim to be groundless. New details have recently come to light, but nothing Obama said previously has been shown to be false.
In a Web ad and in repeated attacks from the stump, McCain describes the two as associates, and Palin claims they "pal around" together. But so far as is known, their relationship was never very close. An Obama spokesman says they last saw each other in a chance encounter on the street more than a year ago.
McCain says in an Internet ad that the two "ran a radical 'education' foundation" in Chicago. But the supposedly "radical" group was supported by a Republican governor and included on its board prominent local civic leaders, including one former Nixon administration official who has given $1,500 to McCain's campaign this year. Education Week says the group's work "reflected mainstream thinking" among school reformers. The group was the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, started by a $49 million grant from the Annenberg Foundation, which was established by the publisher Walter Annenberg, a prominent Republican whose widow, Leonore, is a contributor to the McCain campaign.
Posted by Metteyya at 10/13/2008 @ 3:57pm
Mask, As usual you are fueled on emotion only. No one rational contends that Obama is going to order an airstrike on the pentagon because he is friends with Ayers, an unrepentant domestic terrorist.
But that is indicative of the contempt you hold for your fellow citizens. You seem to be led by an insatiable desire to identify hypocrisy in every channel you can.
I'll try it again. If you believe there is nothing wrong with Bill Ayers, why is it a problem correctly identifying the connections between he, his wife and the Obamas?
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 4:05pm
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 3:56pm
Can you define and prove your assertion of friendship?
Posted by winyahn at 10/13/2008 @ 4:06pm
freiheit-We don't know if Obama and Ayers have much in common.It would be good if more truth came out about Palin's connections to anti government groups because few people support such fringe group loons and that would scare America into an Obama landslide.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/13/2008 @ 4:08pm
"I'll try it again. If you believe there is nothing wrong with Bill Ayers, why is it a problem correctly identifying the connections between he, his wife and the Obamas?"
The connection - they were once on the same board. They both live in Chicago. Obama's wife worked for the same company as Ayer's wife, before Obama and Ayers ever met. It was a big company, so it's an inescapable conclusion that Michelle and Ayers bombed banks together, because if any two people work at the same company, and one of them is maried to someone with a shady past, and the other is a black Dem named Obama, they must have been bosom chums. Ergo, Obama is a terrorist.
Yup yup, nothing wrong with that you betcha!
Posted by johnny canuck at 10/13/2008 @ 4:11pm
Posted by Metteyya at 10/13/2008 @ 3:57pm
Right. I'm still wondering why anyone on the left cares?
Okay, lets look at all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the left concerning alleged impropriety on Palin's part trying to get her brother in law fired. So? In reality, don't you think they guy may have been a threat to her family and a dirtbag? Feel free to use this against her. Even painted in your worst light, I think it would help her more than it would hurt her.
This lack of focus on the issues really does play to Obama's advantage anyway. You should be happy.
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 4:13pm
Hey, FREI....you got any problem with somebody "associating with ACORN"?
http://www.politico.com /blogs/bensmith/1008/ Acorn_pushes_back_hugs_McCain.html?showall
(delete spaces to put in Address field)
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/13/2008 @ 4:15pm
freiheit-It is your side that cares about Ayers and it is your side that won't discuss the issues in favor of discussing Ayers, as you are proving.Palin's family does not view the trooper as a threat.if they did they never would have tried to get him fired and making more angry.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/13/2008 @ 4:17pm
Posted by johnny canuck at 10/13/2008 @ 4:11pm
Johnny, there is much more to it than that.
I contend that Obama be proud of it, that's all.
Why isn't he?
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 4:20pm
freiheit-You are contending nothing.You are making it up that Obama has a close relationship with Ayers even though no one can find any evidence that that is true despite the best efforts of the Clinton's and the GOP to find such a connection.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/13/2008 @ 4:22pm
I wonder what Hugo thinks of the white families whom are members of Trinity United? Do they hate white America too? Contrary to popular belief, Rev. Wright's church has a diverse congregation. A black person can be critical of government and not hate white people.
I wonder if people who still bring up Wright's sermon ever listened to his entire sermon?
Posted by k330k at 10/13/2008 @ 4:24pm
Hi Mask, I really don't know much about ACORN. What little I've read, it doesn't appear to be a group I would support.
I'm Nobody, It is the left who apparently wants to throw Ayers under the bus. I'm simply contending that Ayers would be a great fit with the leftists on this blog. (Do you have a problem with Ayers?!) I can't understand why you don't applaud any association or friendship between he and Obama, that's all.
Winyahn, I don't know. Maybe you should ask Hillary Clinton. Wasn't it her campaign that first raised the question of an Ayers Obama connection?..
k33ok, I have listened to quite a few of Wright's sermons from beginning to end. He seems to be surprisingly unaware of Satan's omnipresence on earth, choosing to identify other rationales for the evil we can plainly see. Funny, we don't seem to hear much about him these days, do we? I wonder why that is?
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 4:59pm
"A black person can be critical of government and not hate white people." -- k330k
Can a white person be critical of Obama and not hate black people?
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 5:13pm
freiheit-I don't understand why you keep making it up that Ayers and Obama are friends other than to believe that you are dishonest.It is not the left that wants to throw Ayers under the bus since he isn't running for anything.As you know,I'm not a leftist nor do I know much about who Ayers is now nor do I care since he has nothing to do with me.We don't hear much about Wright because he isn't running for anything and doesn't matter.I can't understand why you on the right aren't applauding Palin's ties to anti govt groups.Why is that?
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/13/2008 @ 5:20pm
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 5:13pm
Yep.
Posted by k330k at 10/13/2008 @ 5:30pm
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/13/2008 @ 5:20pm
I posted above that I AM applauding Palin's ties to anti federal government groups!
I refuse to distance Palin from that truth because it is an enhancement to her credibility in my opinion.
What I'm contending here is that Obama supporters who should be proud of any association between Ayers and Obama are refusing to allow even speculation on the issue.
Why?
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 5:37pm
Barry Obama will most likely win (not because he is the better candidate but because it is the Dems 'turn' to rule) and if you think things will improve, you are kidding yourself. This empty politician will deliver nothing but more empty speeches. Pathetic.
Posted by HNWBanker at 10/13/2008 @ 5:38pm
freiheit-You are contending nothing.You are making up nonsense about "the left" and Ayers when you know that most on the left do not approve of his past actions.You are being desperate,dishonest, and pointless.Most Obama supporters are not on the far far left like Ayers is and you know that and are being dishonest.You did not answer my question.Why is the right not applauding,or mentioning,Palin's ties to anti govt groups?
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/13/2008 @ 5:47pm
I'm Nobody, no, I don't know that most of the left do not approve of his past actions. Every single profile of him in the media I've read is extremely positive. Right down to the flattering photograph. No, Ayers is a darling of the left and you know it.
Why is the right not applauding Palins husbands association to a secessionist group in Alaska years ago? I don't know. I think they should. Probably for the exact same reason the left is denying any Obama Ayers links.
And I am not desperate, I'm Nobody. I am not a fan of Mccain's. In fact, I see little to no difference between the two candidates. I mean that sincerely. Either way we're screwed. BOTH voted for the bailout. Neither will reduce government spending. BOTH are for increased government influence over our daily lives. Neither represents change.
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 6:03pm
"I'm Nobody, It is the left who apparently wants to throw Ayers under the bus. I'm simply contending that Ayers would be a great fit with the leftists on this blog. (Do you have a problem with Ayers?!) I can't understand why you don't applaud any association or friendship between he and Obama, that's all."
"A black person can be critical of government and not hate white people." -- k330k
Can a white person be critical of Obama and not hate black people?
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 5:13pm
As to your first submission; Do you really think the bulk of 'left leaning' or 'right leaning' Americans, (NOT the extremist fringes), is comfortable with secessionist groups or bombers?
Sure, both, in different ways, wants to 'shut down' what they perceive is bad about washington. But, most people I know are not comfortable associating with those who want to destroy America's union or infrastructure.
They want change. Not destruction. Not disbandment of the union.
As to your post to k330k; I think you are just shit stirring. You are better than that. But I am not so I will call you on it.
Either I have misjudged all of your past posts. Or your well subdued partisanship is getting more insecure and more desperate.
Don't allow it to morph into racism. It will consume you.
Eric
Posted by Malcontent at 10/13/2008 @ 6:28pm
freiheit-Ayers is not the darling of the left,is never mentioned by the left,and most on the left did not know who he was until recently.The left will forget all about Ayers as soon as you people stop mentioning him.How the media portrays him is irrelevant.If you really believe that most on the left approve of his past acts then you truly are a moron and I rarely call people names,but I will you after reading something as idiotic as you wrote.Move to Alaska,join the AIP and start burying guns in your backyard with the rest of the loons.Your kind has ruined the state,anyway.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/13/2008 @ 6:35pm
The 2010 Congressional elections will be just like 1994. An overreaching Obama and Democratic Congress, in a frenzy of socialist legislation, pisses of most of America. Net result, back to the penalty box!
Posted by sntauri at 10/13/2008 @ 6:36pm
lvliberty-You were unable to show lies,but nice try at changing the subject.We are getting used to you guys doing that and it's understandable.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/13/2008 @ 6:38pm
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/13/2008 @ 6:30pm
Are you suggesting that the government pay the ENTIRE cost of the new employee or it is Obama spin?
Posted by Metteyya at 10/13/2008 @ 6:49pm
Malcontent, Racist? Hardly. I am deeply concerned about the unveiled threats of civil unrest if Obama doesn't win the election. Do you believe there will be claims of racism now if Obama doesn't win? I was gratified to read K33oK's affirmation that one can be anti-Obama without being accused of being a racist. That's how it should be.
I'm Nobody, I'm a moron? Okay, sorry you feel that way.
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 6:50pm
freiheit-I'm sorry that you had to post something that moronic.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/13/2008 @ 6:55pm
Madlib,
According to the NYT, Ayers own words on the his bombings were, "My memoir is from start to finish a condemnation of terrorism, of the indiscriminate murder of human beings, whether driven by fanaticism or official policy," he wrote. But he added that the Weathermen had "showed remarkable restraint" given the nature of the American bombing campaign in Vietnam that they were trying to stop.
Most of the bombs the Weathermen were blamed for had been placed to do only property damage, a fact Mr. Ayers emphasizes in his memoir. But a 1970 pipe bomb in San Francisco attributed to the group killed one police officer and severely hurt another. An accidental 1970 explosion in a Greenwich Village town house basement killed three radicals; survivors later said they had been making nail bombs to detonate at a military dance at Fort Dix in New Jersey. And in 1981, in an armed robbery of a Brinks armored truck in Nanuet, N.Y., that involved Weather Underground members including Kathy Boudin and David Gilbert, two police officers and a Brinks guard were killed.
In his memoir, Mr. Ayers was evasive as to which bombings he had a hand in, writing that "some details cannot be told." By the time of the Brinks robbery, he and Ms. Dohrn had emerged from underground to raise their two children, then Chesa Boudin, whose parents were imprisoned for their role in the heist. [New York Times, 10/3/08]
So, you might get a couple of AYES here Madlib, that is if anyone here can be honest.
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 7:30pm
freiheit-Some of the people in the AIP agreed with what McVeigh did as do groups they are connected to.Ayers was years ago.These people are the here and now.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/13/2008 @ 7:34pm
Madlib, Is Palin's husband really a secessionist? If he is, to me that's a good thing. Or do you approve of Congress and the Bush Admninistration?
Does it reflect on her. Yes. Keep touting how she's not a Washington insider. Show it in every way you can.
No wait. Instead tout the 3 year US Senator who voted for the bailout as the change agent... right.
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 7:34pm
Or even funnier, how about Mccain as the Maverick voice for "change?" LOL!
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 7:36pm
freiheit-I agree with you and McCain/Palin should stress her ties to these anti government groups in order to show that she isn't a DC insider.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/13/2008 @ 7:45pm
Posted by sntauri at 10/13/2008 @ 6:36pm
And the cycle starts all over again.
Posted by k330k at 10/13/2008 @ 7:46pm
I'm Nobody?
"Some of the people" and "those people are the here and now"?
Really? Well, you might be right. I don't know. But it is a feasible as believing that there are some in the Democratic Party who condone the actions of Ayers decades ago as he was bombing in protest in an effort to stop the US bombing of Vietnam...
Classic moral corruption.
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 7:46pm
freiheit-Ayers did not blow up a day care center,like McVeigh did.The former leader of the Michigan militia,who liked McVeigh,is now living Alaska and is a member of the AIP. Is there anything that you know about the subject of Ayers or the AIP because your responses show ignorance of both.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/13/2008 @ 7:49pm
I am deeply concerned about the unveiled threats of civil unrest if Obama doesn't win the election.Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 6:50pm
Where did you get that impression? What's funny is I get the same feeling from the folks at the McCain-Palin rallies if Obama does win. Interesting.
Posted by k330k at 10/13/2008 @ 7:51pm
freiheit-Members,like the former Michigan militia leader,said they approved of McVeigh.Have any democrats said they approve of what Ayers did?
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/13/2008 @ 7:53pm
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/13/2008 @ 7:49pm
Plenty about Ayers. That's why I feel to connect him to Obama is disingenuous. And blogged here that the left should embrace the criticism, not defend it.
As for AIP, I've not read a line about tying McVeigh to it in any way. Except for your indepth analysis, which I'm sure is well referenced from an impartial source too.
-------------------------
K33ok,
Can you cite one instance of civil unrest fueled by conservatives following any event in the United States since 1900? Just one? Serious question really. Because I know you've read the articles in the AP, and published in the NYT predicting unrest in the event of an Obama defeat. Outside of you, I have not seen a single reference to threats of civil unrest from the right in the event of a Mccain loss.
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 8:16pm
"Malcontent, Racist? Hardly. I am deeply concerned about the unveiled threats of civil unrest if Obama doesn't win the election."
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 6:50pm
k330k beat me to it.
I have only heard talk of the opposite. Can you point to anything as compelling as a Pallin campaign rally, that gives you such a concern?
Posted by Malcontent at 10/13/2008 @ 8:37pm
freiheit-I did not say that the AIP had connections to McVeigh.I said that some AIP members and groups they are connected to approved of what McVeigh did, like the former head of the Michigan militia.My source is me and the fact that I have lived in places like Montana and Alaska and knew these people and some were my friends.Unlike you,I actually know these people are some are quite dangerous.You,obviously,know nothing about either Ayers or the AIP,militia groups,etc and should get online and learn something.
Posted by i'm nobody at 10/13/2008 @ 9:24pm
Photos of McCain and war criminal Bush hugging! Far, far worse guilt by association than the Ayers-for-fears.
Posted by winyahn at 10/13/2008 @ 10:11pm
BH is a Republican...and a more than usual dishonest one!
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/13/2008 @ 12:51pm
Agreed.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 10/13/2008 @ 10:54pm
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 10/13/2008 @ 10:54pm
FROSTY has even put forth the idea that he might be FRANKGRITS!
Posted by Maskdelta at 10/13/2008 @ 11:00pm
Here, like me, for instance, I frankly applaud Palin's husband for being a member in an anti-federal government group. I see no reason to play that down. That enhances her credibility as a candidate to me.
Why are you so afraid of the truth that Ayers and Obama have much in common? Isn't that a good thing?
Posted by freiheit1 at 10/13/2008 @ 3:56pm
Um, actually, it was a secessionist group, frei. Not just an anti-federal government group. see. these guys actually wanted to leave the Union. So, you're OK with busting up the country into multiple countries? So maybe those of us in blue states should have our own country - we'll call it the United States of America - and you can join the old Confederacy in its own country? Alaska can be its own country? They're secessionists, frei. As for stuff in common, your administration has for the last 8 years borne a close resemblance to 1930s Germany, frei. And you certainly seem to embrace that.
Posted by jmusolino at 10/14/2008 @ 12:14am
And I don't want the govt paying a dime.
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/13/2008 @ 7:06pm | ignore this person | warn this person
.
Well, not exactly right Larry?
When the government gives YOU those big tax deductions for the 'religious expenses' for your 'church' you have no problem with the government paying through the nose.
Posted by Lillian at 10/14/2008 @ 12:22am
October 12, 2008
How Much Would You Pay in Taxes? Sens. Barack Obama and John McCain both say they'll cut federal taxes if elected. Here's what their proposals would mean for you.
Obama McCain If you make... you'd you'd save... save...
less than $19,000 $567 $21 $19,000-$37,600 $892 $118 $37,600-$66,400 $1118 $325 $66,400-$111,600 $1264 $994 $111,600-$161,000 $2135 $2584 $161,000-$227,000 $2796 $4437
If you're in the you'd pay you'd top 5% of earners an extra... save...
$227,000-$603,400 $121 $8159 $603,400-$2.87M $93,709 $48,862 more than $2.87M $542,882 $290,708
*Source: Tax Policy Center. Numbers have been rounded. For complete details, go to TaxPolicyCenter.org.
Posted by Lillian at 10/14/2008 @ 12:26am
OK, that table didn't cut and paste well.
It's a comparison between the tax plans of Obama and McCain and wht you'd pay or save under each plan, based on what your income is.
You can see it here...
http://tinyurl.com/4yaahr
It pretty much demonstrates Obama telling it like it is...
...and McCain lying through his teeth.
Posted by Lillian at 10/14/2008 @ 12:29am
The only relevent thing about the Ayers and Rev. Wright associations is that....
Nobody gives a shit.
McCain and his goon, Palin, have been beating this drum for a week and McCain's numbers have gone down in the polls.
All this bullshit is acheiving for McCain is to whip up the purple kool-aid huffing section. And, lets face it, the videos of these angry mobs is downright frightening to normal people.
Posted by koroviev at 10/14/2008 @ 01:23am
Cashill says Obama must have been some kind of "literary idiot savant" if you believe he wrote his books--um, excuse me, but the man graduated from Columbia and Harvard law...
One of the things that's so messed up about the right wing mentality is that they remain singularly OBSESSED about the 1960s. Vietnam, the Weathermen, and now they claim RFK in his last months was a Nazi. Seriously, the only time I ever give any thought to anything related to the 60s is when a Hendrix track comes up on my ipod. All that crap happened a long, long time ago--can we talk about something else now?
Posted by takemyveepplease at 10/14/2008 @ 02:47am
It was eventually bound to happen. It's like the old saying does 'Fool me once shame on you...fool me twice shame on me!'. It stood to reason eventually the most ignorant was going to wise up to their 'smear tactics'. So a lot of us have learned to let the Rev Wrights and the William Ayers go in one ear and out the other. The Republican's are only sucking slime out of their thumbs again!
Posted by ganddw42 at 10/14/2008 @ 10:26am
The next charge will be that Obama eats kittens. After all, can you PROVE he doesn't eat kitttens? And now there will have to be a discussion by the right-wingers "exploring" the charge. Of course, the discussion will end with "So far, Obama has not denied eating live or even dead kittens".
Posted by inLoveland at 10/14/2008 @ 11:43am
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/13/2008 @ 6:30pm
LVL. Proving the Republican need to insult anything Democrat. If a Republican had proposed all these tax cuts you would be yelling it from the roof tops but because it's a Democrat you are just calling it socialism instead. Let start with the first myth you are saying.
1. It is true. 95% of the American population will not get tax cuts. 87% will. Even if it's a tax credit it's still considered a cut. So call it anything you want but it's not a lie at all. It's truth. The truth is just not what you want to hear.
2. You say that the capital gains tax thing is a lie because no small business receive the capital gains tax. You then say than only 1 - 1/2% of small businesses receive the capital gains tax. Which disproves you own lie. Whether the percentage is negligible or not you can not claim he is lying if there is someone who is going to benefit from it. I don't know if you know what the definition of a lie is but it is a direct contradiction of the truth. This is not a contradiction of the truth. It may be an exaggeration of results but he is still in essence telling the truth.
3. The Tax Credit for hiring new employees is not spin or a lie. It's actually quite brilliant. This does not spur companies t go out and hire tons of new people. BUT it means that companies that are rapidly expanding are going to get tax credits for all the new employees they need to hire. Is this an incentive to hire more people? No. But does it add a little bonus to small - medium buisnesses in their expansion and attempts to become larger buisnesses, yes.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 10/14/2008 @ 11:49am
Posted by lvliberty1 at 10/13/2008 @ 6:30pm
You need to get your head out of the sand LVL. You look more and more like a loon every day. You call tax cuts and credits by a Democrat socialist because they will be more greatly felt by the Middle Class and not the upper class. However when Bush passes tax cuts that benefit the upper class most you are fine with it. Like I said if it was a Republican passing these tax cuts you would be jumping for joy but in your need to play partisan politics and blame the Demos you feel you have to insult and deride Obama for it.
The world will be well rid of your partisan politics when your generation finally disappears. We need more open minded people. Not dinosaurs who still play the blame game.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 10/14/2008 @ 11:52am
In one Ayre and out the other, Guppie. Most of the clones who post here have a certain goofy charm. Some even make a valid point now and then. You'll understand when you're older, dear.
Posted by MyParadigm at 10/14/2008 @ 12:19pm
The Republicans are desperate, hence their attempts at trying to make something out of a connection to Ayers.
How about McCain's good friend G Gordon Liddy, who did federal prison time for attempting to subvert the Constituion?
Liddy, following the tragedy of Waco: "Now if the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms comes to disarm you and they are bearing arms, resist them with arms. Go for a head shot; they're going to be wearing bulletproof vests. ... Kill the sons of bitches."
McCain, on Liddy's radio show last November: "I'm proud of you, I'm proud of your family. It's always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon, and congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great."
The Reublicans have taken hypocrisy to a new level this year. I've read McCain plans to bring up Ayers in tomorrow's debate. If he does, I hope Obama throws those quotes back in McCain's face.
Posted by OldUncleDave at 10/14/2008 @ 4:12pm
I have long hoped that when a jerk is called a jerk because of his actions and words he might understand he is being called a jerk BECAUSE HE IS ONE and not because he is tall or short, fat or skinny, blond or bald, or white or brown or black.
Today we see so much "political correctness" what's being said is 'pap'.
Posted by tucanofulano at 10/14/2008 @ 4:26pm
A real terrorist. Just sort of slipped in right under the DHS net, huh?
ROFL
Posted by A_Pax_On_Your_Houses at 10/14/2008 @ 9:44pm
In case freiheit1 appears again, here is a little of her thought from other places on the web...
http://boredboiblogging.blogspot.com/2008/08/it-all-about-eternity.html
Read it (posted below) and then go here http://www.truthout.org/101408S to read what a former fellow traveler of freiheit1 has to say about "wingnuts" like Palin and freiheit1.
But first read freiheit1 here....
She (Palin) was chosen simply to bring conservatives back to the Republicans. And it'll work.
Here's the deal. Democrats are incapable of comprehending that millions of Americans actually believe in God. Not like Pelosi believe in God, but actually believe in God. That millions of Americans actually believe in the Bible. And they live it even though they know they're sinners. Every one of them can see through the bulls**t, dime store christianity peddled by liberals.
These millions know that if you are pro-choice you cannot possibly be a true Christian.
Palin is not pro-choice.
Get ready for "What's the Matter with Kansas? Volume II" because you just don't get it. It's not about race or gender, it is about eternity.
Posted by freiheit1 at 08/29/2008
Posted by arroyoribera at 10/15/2008 @ 02:07am
I associate with - in the local, school organizations involving my kids - with some pretty wacky ex- hippies. We are freindly and cordial but that doesn't mean I subscribe to any of their radical ideas - and I am a Democrat.
So this is all devisive nonsense! It's the same old scare tactics!
The old maverick has dawned a saddle called Palin and he's gonna ride into the sunset with her on his back. His name is McShame!
Posted by NO-NONSENSE at 10/15/2008 @ 1:06pm
I read Cashill's "evidence" on his website and in a few other places. Not easy to do. His writing is loose and self-indulgent, unorganized and digressive, and many of his scattered articles on Ayers's ghost-writing contain no "evidence" at all. When he finally gets down to it, here's his best shot: (1) Obama's book contains many sea metaphors; (2) Ayers's own book contains many sea metaphors; (3) my (Cashill's) book contains no sea metaphors, not a single one. Conclusion: Therefore, Ayers ghost-wrote Obama's book.
His other pieces of "evidence" are flimsier than that one.
Posted by mts231f at 10/15/2008 @ 5:22pm