McCain Picks Sarah Palin for Vice President

posted by John Nichols on 08/29/2008 @ 08:56am

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Apparently the John McCain campaign has decided the whole "experience" thing isn't all that big a deal.

The presumptive Republican nominee for president has chosen as his running-mate a candidate whose claim to fame until two years ago was her service as mayor of Wasilla, Alaska.

But Alaska Governor Sarah Palin is a woman.

And that made her particularly attractive to McCain, who seems increasingly determined to run an "outside-the-box" campaign for the presidency.

Palin, the first woman chosen to run on on a GOP slate, moved up McCain's short list of possible running mates as the Arizona senator and his aides reviewed polls suggesting that a significant number of supporters of Democrat Hillary Clinton-- who lost a long and sometimes bitter nomination fight to Barack Obama--might just back the right Republican ticket.

The McCain campaign telegraphed its determination to go after Clinton backers with television advertisements, press conferences featuring a dissident Clinton delegate and a steady stream of spin during the just-finished Democratic National Convention.

There was speculation that McCain would chose a senior senator, such as Texan Kay Bailey Hutchison. But Hutchison had some ethics troubles and a tendency toward moderation on some choice issues.

Palin, like McCain, is a determined opponent of abortion rights and a hero to so-called "right-to-life" activists.

But, like McCain, she's been something of a maverick -- not so much on issues as on style.

Palin beat the incumbent mayor of her hometown of Wasilla with an anti-tax campaign and then, from that position, beat the incumbent Republican governor in a 2006 primary.

And if McCain inspires jokes about his age, everything about Palin says "vigorous."

The governor is not just a woman but, at 44, she is young enough to be McCain's daughter.

She's a smart, edgy pol who is exceptionally popular in Alaska and has a story that the national media will enjoy telling almost as much as it does McCain's

Palin's married to a native Alaskan, she's got a kid in the Army, she likes to hunt and fish, eats moose burgers, and has taken on establishment Republicans to elbow her way onto the political stage.

As such, Palin's a smart if risky choice for McCain.

The vice presidential debate with Joe Biden will be tough, especially when it turns to foreign-policy matters.

And, while Palin has played well on the small stage of Alaskan politics, she is a distinct newcomer to the national scene.

Conservative writers have tried to build the governor up as a reformer. The Weekly Standard's Fred Barnes once described Palin as a "politician of eye-popping integrity" with "a great (and rare) story of how adherence to principle -- especially to transparency and accountability in government--can produce political success." But she's currently the subject of an investigation of whether she used her position to try force the firing of an Alaska state trooper, who was been involved in a divorce and child custody battle with the governor's sister.

And then there is the fact of passion--to borrow a phrase from T. Boone Pickens -- "for drilling our way out" of the energy crunch. Indeed, while it will be suggested that the governor's selection represents a big break from the current vice president, when it comes to what is politely referred to as "resource development"--Palin looks a lot like Dick Cheney.

Comments (288)

"If she's the pick, Palin's a smart if risky choice for McCain."

VERY risky for two reasons-

1. It will look like an obvious and BLATENT attempt to "woo Hillary voters", not pick the "best person to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency" (for a Prez candidate turning 72 today!).

2. Palin KILLS the "experience" argument against Obama. How does McCain attack Obama for "not having enough experience to be President"....when Obama will have MORE experience than the woman McCain wants to put "a heartbeat away"?!??!?

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 09:00am
Moose Burgers are pretty tasty when dipped in harp seal sauce. Don't knock it till you've tried it, old boy

Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 08/29/2008 @ 09:13am
John Nichols -- 10 September, 2007 -- The Nation

'If Petraeus tells the Congress today that President Bush's "surge" of troops into Iraq is succeeding in reducing violence -- as part of an argument for maintaining a massive U.S. military force on the ground in Iraq -- then the general will indeed be guilty of betraying the truth, and the troops, for political purposes.

If he has been listening at all to testimony from unbiased officials to Congress in recent days, if he has simply read the papers, Biden knows this to be the case. Even if he is inclined, against all evidence to the contrary, to believe whatever political statement the general makes, the senator has a sworn duty to check and balance the administration with pointed and skeptical questioning of those who speak on its behalf.

By issuing a pre-dated "blank check" to Petraeus, Biden makes it clear that he is not up to his current job. He is certainly not prepared to move up to the presidency.'

---

Christopher Hitchens -- 18 January 2008

'...Not to dampen any parade, but if one asks if there is a single thing about Mr. Obama's Senate record, or state legislature record, or current program, that could possibly justify his claim to the presidency one gets . . . what? Not much. Similarly lightweight unqualified "white" candidates have overcome this objection, to be sure, but what kind of standard is that?'

Posted by HonestLiberal at 08/29/2008 @ 09:35am
Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 09:12am

She's ran a state with a population ONE-FIFTH that of ALL of Chicago.

Again, Palin would take the "experience" argument off the table. How does McCain attack Obama for "lack of experience"...

when HIS Veep choice has been in office TWO YEARS LESS than Obama?!??!? And with a constituency that would barely fill Peoria, Springfield, and Cairo?

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 09:38am
Posted by HonestLiberal at 08/29/2008 @ 09:35am

HL, how do you square the quotes from "old McCain" on tax cuts, immigration, etc.....

with the quotes from "new McCain" running for President?

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 09:46am
"..and she is a governor of a bigger state than you know who was.....(both Bush and Billy..)"

Someone should check the census data.

Governors govern people.

Posted by drhammer at 08/29/2008 @ 09:56am
Posted by drhammer at 08/29/2008 @ 09:56am

Sarah governed a lot of ice and tundra....I can't deny that!

LOL

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 09:58am
BTW, I'm not saying McCain won't pick Palin.

He's turned into the "Pander Bear" and obviously Palin would be a pander to the female vote or the "Hillary vote" on the Dem side.

Given the way he's been since he dropped "maverick'ness" to run for President....he just might pick her.

I wonder how SHE'll answer the question in the debate...

"Governor, Senator McCain has made much of experience....yet YOU have two years less experience in office than Senator Obama and will be a heartbeat away from the Presidency...how do you square that?"....

"Well, Jim, I governed a BIG state...not too many people...but it's BIG, we're bigger than Texas...uh...not that I'm saying anything bad about Texas...but my state was BIG....did I mention it was BIG?"

Then she can go on to talk foreign policy with Joe Biden!

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 10:02am
I get the speculation as an attempt to change the subject from McCain's poor foreign policy judgment that came out in the speech last night, but the only person we know for sure who will be in Dayton AND who is on the short list is Romney.

If Palin is the choice, like MASK said, this takes away McCain's experience argument against Obama.

How could you say that Obama is not ready when you pick a 44-year-old governor with NO foreign policy experience and hasn't even finished her first term as governor?

Posted by Metteyya at 08/29/2008 @ 10:07am
Palin debating national/foreign policy with Biden?

Good luck with that...

Or did McPOWhowmanyMANSIONS for a moment believe apart from her being another younger attractive woman to use, that 'Alaska' is kinda 'exotic' and perhaps 'big' enough to counter Obama?

Posted by hsuBfools at 08/29/2008 @ 10:10am
Tomorrow McPOWhowmanyMANSIONS will pick someone else...

Posted by hsuBfools at 08/29/2008 @ 10:11am
Oooops

Posted by hsuBfools at 08/29/2008 @ 10:11am
A Lie berman debate with Biden would be interesting and fitting though.

Posted by hsuBfools at 08/29/2008 @ 10:31am
Politico, Chicago Tribune, AP and FOX report that Palin got the nod.

Gee, do you think having an African American on the ballot had any influence on McCain picking a women?

Nah, I am sure she was the most qualified candidate. Good thing repubs don't like quotas or pandering.

So, what's the poop on the first term governator? Other than she is "easy on the eyes"?

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 10:41am
Word out, it IS Palin.

Which means McCain just admitted that not having that much EXPERIENCE is "okay" to be President or a heartbeat away from being President.

TWO years governing a state with a population less than Jacksonville, Florida...is "enough". So FOUR years serving as US Senator from one of the most populous states in the Union should be too, right???

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 10:43am
Palin confirmed!

A dumb pick for McCain as it kills his ONLY argument against Obama concerning experience.

Even Republican women won't think Palin is ready to step in if 72-year-old McCain is not able to finish.

Posted by Metteyya at 08/29/2008 @ 10:45am
CNBC interview:

Kudlow: All right, drill, drill, drill! Nobody does it better than Alaska, if only Congress would let it. So here to tell us all about it, Alaska Republican Governor Sarah Palin.

Governor Palin, thank you ever so much for coming on. We appreciate it. I want to start with this, it's an oddball question. I mean, Senator McCain says it's too pristine to drill. Senator Obama says the drilling won't work. What is your response to this? How do you fight back?

Palin: Well it will work. And Senator McCain is wrong on that issue.

Kudlow: Alright, so now you've got another case where both candidates seem to be off course. Senator Obama wants a windfall profits tax on oil companies. And Senator McCain talks about obscene profits, which I regard as the near cousin to the windfall profits tax. What's your response to these criticisms?

Palin: Well we just went through a process of making sure that the oil and gas resources that Alaskans own are properly taxed. And we just increased a tax on profits of oil companies up here, because an earlier version of Alaska's tax formula had been corrupted by some politicians who are now in prison for the corruption. But we had to revisit the way that we were going to tax profits on oil companies. We just got through that, and it wasn't an obscene amount of tax placed upon them. In fact, it's driven more by a desire to explore and to develop with independent companies coming into Alaska. So you know, on a national level, they're going to have to deal with that, but we just dealt with it on Alaska's level. And we have a healthy valuation of our oil and gas reserves, and we're deriving healthy revenue for our state off that.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 10:47am
Wow, this has to be a huge mistake. It really looks like a 'let's get the Hillary votes' move that, if I was a woman, I'd be insulted over.

what exactly is HER qualifications anyways? Nothing I see in the list says to be VP or even President.

Posted by ankcdisney at 08/29/2008 @ 10:50am
Palin appears to be VINDICTIVE and prone to ABUSE OF POWER.

After Cheney and Bush, I don't think America wants more of the same!

Investigation to begin into whether Governor Sarah Palin abused her power in firing Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan By Corey Allen-Young, CBS 11 News Reporter Article Last Updated: 07/28/2008 06:49:51 PM AKDT

Lawmakers will hire someone within a week to investigate whether Governor Sarah Palin abused her power in firing Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan. The legislative council approved 100,000 dollars for the investigation that will find out whether Palin was angry at Monegan for not firing an Alaska State Trooper who went through a messy divorce with Palin's sister.

On Monday afternoon, the Joint Legislative Council, filled with Republicans and Democrats, voted 12 to 0 to formally call for an investigation against Governor Palin in a manner--that they are stressing--will be unbiased and done in a timely fashion.

Legislators approved hiring a special investigator to look into the controversial firing of former Public Courtesy, KTOO-TV Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan. Monegan was fired two weeks ago without explanation and has said he was pressured by the governor and her staff to fire a trooper who was once married to Palin's sister.

Accusations have risen that Monegan was fired for his refusal to fire trooper Michael Wooten. The council's intent is to investigate the circumstances and events surrounding the termination of Monegan and potential abuses of power and improper action by the Governor and her administration.

Posted by Metteyya at 08/29/2008 @ 10:53am
She was a pot smoker!!

Druggies in the WH!

OMG!

Husband works for British Petroleum. That should make the Energy policy even easier than Cheneys.

she exposed republican corruption. Thats good stuff.

former beauty queen. Well, that should make a good comparison to Paris Hilton.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 10:54am
This year's Dan Quayle.

Posted by Be Good at 08/29/2008 @ 10:55am
Posted by Metteyya at 08/29/2008 @ 10:53am

wow! Hard to believe that Grandpas "people" overlooked that.

---

alaska is 22 years younger than McCain! hehe.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 10:59am
PRESIDENTIAL PRECEDENT

NEWSWIRE--With John McCain's selection of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his running mate, voters will elect either the first black president or the oldest elected president and the first female vice president.

Is it race, sex or age? That's a mystery. But superlatives can be unpleasant: Although someone's assured to make history, They can still make a mess of the present.

www.newsandverse.com Light verse, ripped from the headlines

Posted by newsandverse at 08/29/2008 @ 11:01am
Blatent, DESPERATE pandering and just admitted experience doesn't matter.

Yep, that's the "judgement and leadership" of John McCain!

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 11:06am
Experience:

governor for 2 years, of a large state with small population. Much of their revenue comes from oil/gas taxes which is shared with the population in a socialized distribution scheme.

2 terms as a city councilwoman. the city of Wasilla :As of the census of 2000, there were 5,470 people, 1,980 households, and 1,360 families residing in the city. The town has a total area of about 12.4 square miles.

yep, her gender had nothing to do with this choice. nope. Best person for the job as President in Waiting. Yep.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 11:10am
Damn, WIKI is ON IT!!

"Sarah Palin, a former mayor of Wasilla, won the 2006 Republican primary race for governor of Alaska, defeating incumbent Frank Murkowski. She won the governorship, defeating the Democratic candidate Tony Knowles, and independent candidate Andrew Halcro. She became the first female governor and youngest governor in the history of the state. She was nominated to be the Republican candidate for Vice President in 2008."

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 11:13am
Posted by Zero at 08/29/2008 @ 11:10am

no kidding! I could almost feel Brooks frustration through the telly last night as he gave his "analysis" of Obamas very good speech. He was nitpicking and flip flopping all over the place. Usually he complains that O talks a lot and says nothing, he is too eloquent, he just works crowds. Last night he complained that O was too toned down, didn't work the crowd enough, gave too many examples.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 11:17am
Posted by frankgrits at 08/29/2008 @ 11:17am |

You have some drool on your chin, here, let me wipe that for you.

I thought you were about "experience"? I being a city council member of a city of 5,000 is good experience for dealing with Putin.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 11:20am
Pandering to frankgrits

And it worked.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 11:22am
Beauty and the Beast??

Sarah once seemed a bright and reasonable Republican. But so did Dick Cheney.

I'm sorry she's agreed to play the Snow White role to the Dwarf, Grumpy. Her oil and gas connections which is the sole reason she was chosen, and actually make her a female version of Dick Cheney.

GREAT!! We're about to have 4 MORE YEARS OF GEORGE BUSH AND DICK CHENEY.

Posted by hazmaq at 08/29/2008 @ 11:22am
This will,probably, get McCain Alaska's three electoral votes,but will end the GOPs ability to push the experience thing.Because of McCain's age his VP choice is a bit more relevant and he needed one with lots of experience in order to keep driving the experience thing home.This won't get him one Hillary supporter,either so I'm not sure why she was picked when there are experienced women he could have picked.

Posted by i'm nobody at 08/29/2008 @ 11:23am
The GOP could have nominated road kill and FrankGrits would vote for the road kill if that gave Hillary a shot at 2012 making his his posts are pointless and silly.

Posted by i'm nobody at 08/29/2008 @ 11:26am
Hillary could go onstage and pass some gas and FrankGrits would be telling us how that constituted a wonderful speech.

Posted by i'm nobody at 08/29/2008 @ 11:32am
FrankGrits-There hasn't been enough time,yet,for women to get excited by this choice which makes your claim that women are excited by it rather lame and silly.

Posted by i'm nobody at 08/29/2008 @ 11:37am
Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 09:16am

"......and she is a governor of a bigger state than you know who was.....(both Bush and Billy..)"

Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 10:15am

"I wasn't refering to geography...jeez"

Then what were you referring to, Johnny?

Posted by drhammer at 08/29/2008 @ 11:38am
FrankGrits-You try too hard to pretend to be a McCain supporter and it's quite obvious that you are trying to be one.

Posted by i'm nobody at 08/29/2008 @ 11:39am
Posted by i'm nobody at 08/29/2008 @ 11:37am

In addition, Governor Palin is stridently anti-abortion.

Her appeal to female voters will not be a done deal.

Posted by drhammer at 08/29/2008 @ 11:42am
I'll say one thing.....

Look who's getting the press after last night's speech.

Posted by bleedingheart at 08/29/2008 @ 11:42am
drhammer-It's interesting that FrankGrits believes that an anti abortion female will attract Hillary supporters.

Posted by i'm nobody at 08/29/2008 @ 11:43am
I think the idea that a woman would just vote for any woman is insulting. They are going to look at her stance on things..like abortion, eductaion, health care, guns, etc. Sure, might be good for GOP but you really believe that female democrates are just going to vote for her cause she has breasts?

Posted by ankcdisney at 08/29/2008 @ 11:43am
"She's a staunch pro life advocate and proved it by giving birth to a child with downs syndrome, something she knew and could have chose an abortion."

And this is going to bring in the Hilary supporters how? Being pro-forced childbirth isn't going to appeal to them. This blatant pandering will backfire.

Re McCain's experience; I don't think experience of backing Bush to the hilt the last eight years is going to work for him.

Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 11:50am
The MSM is already abuzz."

The MSM will buzz for vapid heiresses and two-headed babies.

"What an exciting pick. "

It long ago became obvious that once Frank hitches his wagon to a candidate, nothing less than hyperbole will suffice.

Posted by drhammer at 08/29/2008 @ 11:51am
Okay, is there ANYBODY here who didn't know that FRANK would...

(A) disparage Obama's speech?

(B) Gush over ANYBODY McCain picked as Veep?

Anybody?

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 11:51am
Mask, she's been Governor for two year. You knwo----Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008 @ 11:50am

Yes, but McCain says being a US Senator for "only four years" isn't enough experience when it comes to Obama...

and he just put a woman who "governs" a population less than Jacksonville Florida and has done it for HALF the time Obama has been in office.

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 11:53am
"It's a brilliant pick and will dominate the MSM coverage from here to election day." Posted by frankgrits at 08/29/2008 @ 11:32am

Most MSM coverage I've seen thus far seems puzzled by McCain's "desperation move". I think it will be a "quick burning" news story, generating a lot of attention at first, but fading fast. Between this and the Republican Convention, McCain will have played the last of his cards. Then we move on to the debates as McCain and Palin try to hold their own against the dream team of Obama-Biden. This is not a good year to be a Republican, Frank!

Posted by Be Good at 08/29/2008 @ 11:54am
FrankGrits-You might want to tone down your fake enthusiasm because real republicans don't seem to be particularly thrilled.In fact,on news shows many are saying that it was an ignorant choice.

Posted by i'm nobody at 08/29/2008 @ 11:54am
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008 @ 11:53am

Darin, Palin was elected in 2006...

Obama was elected in 2004.

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 11:54am
Posted by ankcdisney at 08/29/2008 @ 11:43am Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 11:50am

My point exactly.

The bad news is that McCain's VP pick is nothing more than pander.

The good news is that he can't even do that right.

Posted by drhammer at 08/29/2008 @ 11:56am
"VERY risky

1. It will look like an obvious and BLATENT attempt to "woo Hillary voters"."

Sort of like running on a "Get out of IRAQ NOW" platform in the primaries only to move right in the general?

Anybody out there who doesn't believe politics is POLITICAL is living in the vapors.

A politician who sticks to his beliefs....

RALPH NADER

And you see where he's at in polls!

Posted by bleedingheart at 08/29/2008 @ 11:56am
Darin-Her state has only three electoral votes because most of Alaska's population aren't human and aren't allowed to vote.

Posted by i'm nobody at 08/29/2008 @ 11:57am
A two year governor of a state with a population of 670,053 in 2006.

in 2006, Chicago's population is 2,828,586.

In other words..governor of a small population state vs A State legislator and State Senator for the 5th largest state via population.

Posted by ankcdisney at 08/29/2008 @ 11:58am
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008 @ 11:57am

Stretch much, Darin?

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 11:58am
Mask, she's been Governor for two year. You knwo

Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008 @ 11:50am | ignore this person | warn this person

As Mask pointed out, her executive experience constitutes running a state with a population of 677,000. If that is a qualification, then McCain could just as easily picked the mayor of Forth Worth.

Frank's point about her being the VP pick is immaterial. What this shows is that McCain clearly doesn't consider experience a prerequisite for someone who is supposed to be able to step into Presidential shoes.

By the way Frank, who are you trying to impress by showing us that you can actually copy and past from Wikipedia?

Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 11:59am
Posted by ankcdisney at 08/29/2008 @ 11:58am

That's the same population as the CITY of Charlotte, NC...LESS than the CITY of Jacksonville, Florida...

so...could McCain have picked a MAYOR of Charlotte (for only two years) and it still not kill the experience argument???

FRANK?....Darin????...bleeding?????

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 12:00pm
It could very well be Palin vs. Clinton in2012. Wouldn't that be a hoot.----Posted by frankgrits at 08/29/2008 @ 11:59am

Who would you vote for FRANK...and why?

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 12:01pm
McSame picks the former mayor of Moose-rump AK as his VP. The former beauty pageant runner-up could be a feeble heartbeat from POTUS.

Did the calender flip back to April 1st last night?

...and she might think like Cheney (gun-totin oil driller and all) but she's got a much nicer derrières!

NOTE TO THE NATION: IF YOU WANT TO SEE A NICE BLOG ENGINE GO TO NEWSVINE.COM IT SUPPORTS STUFF LIKE BOLD AND ITALIC AND SUCH, WITH LIVE PREVIEW

Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 12:01pm
Even Republican women won't think Palin is ready to step in if 72-year-old McCain is not able to finish.

Posted by Metteyya at 08/29/2008 @ 10:45am

That's disgusting!!!!lol

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/29/2008 @ 12:02pm
This will appeal to mothers everywhere. It's a winning principle.

Posted by frankgrits at 08/29/2008 @ 12:01pm | ignore this person | warn this person

Rubbish. The feminists who are Hilary backers aren't going to be enthusiastic about an anti-choice religious-rightist.

Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 12:03pm
FrankGrits-The only person that takes you seriously is lvliberty.

Posted by i'm nobody at 08/29/2008 @ 12:03pm
McCain very well may have won the election with this pick. A pro-life woman will end the all of the resistence of those Evangelicals who were ambivalent about McCain, no matter how justified they were in being so. Obama has made a very important mistake slithering away the way he did from his earlier positions on FISA, drilling, NAFTA, and campaign finance reform. He looks smaller and smaller by the minute because of that. And with Afghanistan/ Russia hawk, Joe Biden, next to him, he has no contrast to provide to McCain on foreign policy. The calculated move to the center, as duplicitous as it was when it happened, has taken the blush off this rose. I think he's toast and he deserves to be toast. Progressive voters deserved a lot better than Obama/Biden. Nader, for example.

Posted by john lowell at 08/29/2008 @ 12:03pm
Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 11:59am

bruno, McCain could have picked Rush Limbaugh as Veep and FG would eat everything he's ever said about El Rushbo and proclaim

"It's a good pick, solidifies his base, Rush DOES have management experience, he worked in the Kansas City Royals home office for many years and is a successful businessman. And 20 million people LOVE him. This will carry McCain across the finish line in November!"

Any doubters?

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 12:04pm
JohnLowell-I think that we're seeing a bit more of the real you.A partisan republican.

Posted by i'm nobody at 08/29/2008 @ 12:05pm
Son-Of-A-Gun!!

She is beautiful!!

I feel like a Black person who supports Obama because he's Black....

I may vote just that damn shallow this time.

And all that money I sent to Nader....

damnit!

Posted by bleedingheart at 08/29/2008 @ 12:06pm
It's obvious that people on here don't know much about politics in a state as unpopulated as Alaska is.

Posted by i'm nobody at 08/29/2008 @ 12:06pm
The mayor of a city does not deal with the issues a state governor does.----- Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008 @ 12:03pm

No, Darin, you're right. Sarah was right there on the front lines, guarding the Polar Circle from the Russians...not just baby-sitting a state with no significant domestic issues and a population less than nearly all others.

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 12:07pm
I wonder where McCain could find an expert on ANWR?

Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008 @ 12:06pm

Uh, Darin....I guess you haven't seen the interview with Palin on "Kudlow & Co." from last year, have you?

Where she says "Senator McCain is wrong" about ANWR?

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 12:09pm
Yep, that's the "judgement and leadership" of John McCain!

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 11:06am

And don't forget to throw the word honor in there. So, what McCain is basically saying is that Sarah Palin is the equivalent of Dick Cheney. lol

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/29/2008 @ 12:09pm
Speaking of LVLIBERTY...

don't you know he's thanking God right now it's not Mitt Romney!

LOL

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 12:10pm
#

You wanted a washington outsider, you got it.

You wanted youth, you got it.

You wanted change, you got it.

You wanted integrity, you got it.

You wanted a womem? You got it.

Posted by frankgrits at 08/29/2008 @ 12:04pm | ignore this person | warn this person

Actually what we wanted was someone who wasn't going to continue with the Bush string of policy failures. Palin's pick doesn't change the fact that McCain has been in lockstep with Bush.

Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 12:10pm
Oh my God! What is the one issue that the GOP has bitch slapped the Dems over recently?

Off-shore drilling. The Dems got fuckin' pasted when Pelosi had to back pedal on drilling.

I wonder where McCain could find an expert on ANWR?

Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008 @ 12:06pm

This is true.

It is this issue that poses the threat.

If the GOP frames it to their advantage, uh oh.

Posted by Benchrest at 08/29/2008 @ 12:11pm
The North Pole is Canada's problem, not Sarah's.----Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008 @ 12:09pm

Tell THIS guy...

Plus, that state shares a border with a hostile nuclear power. How's that for foriegn experience?----Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008 @ 11:57am

LOL.....hey, wait a minute. Just been re-reading some of this stuff?

Darin....are you being ...sarcastic??!?!??

or are you really that desperate to salvage this thing as FRANK is?

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 12:12pm
FrankGrits-Biden is quite popular in New England and is from Penn.See the difference?

Posted by i'm nobody at 08/29/2008 @ 12:13pm
If you want to converse with me, you'll have to play nice. I've just released you from the ignore pen. Dillweed and Zero are doing time there because they make no sense what-so-ever and have nothing substantial to add to the conversation.

You see the size of Frank's ego. Somehow his not listening to people is the same as locking them up. Zero and Mask are adding to the conversation whether he ignores them or not.

Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 12:15pm
....for the VP slot!

Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/29/2008 @ 12:13pm | ignore this person | warn this person

The raison d'etre for the VP is to be able to step in. That's why the constitutional requirements for the office are the same as those for the top slot.

Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 12:15pm
I think McCain now realized he was wrong and is ready to support drilling.----Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008 @ 12:11pm

Nope....he flips on ANWR, he loses one side of the "both sides" he's been trying to play. See, he uses the OFF-SHORE DRILLING thing to placate you guys on the Right....while keeping ANWR verboten to try to seem like he's SOMETHING of an environmentalist.

You DO know that McCain is a panderer, right?

If not...take a look at his "Hail Mary" (or "Hail Sarah") pass that he just made to try to get some air-time, excitement, and ineffectively woo "Hillary voters"!

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 12:16pm
FrankGrits-I don't care if you converse with me nor will I play nice.Get your unearned ego under control and grow up.The reason you pretend to put people on ignore is because you don't want to converse with people who know that you are a fraud.

Posted by i'm nobody at 08/29/2008 @ 12:17pm
Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/29/2008 @ 12:13pm

And HAPP, what happens to two year governor of Tundra-land...

if 72 year old John McCain dies in office?

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 12:17pm
"Politically speaking, this is a brilliant move because a large part of the country was hypnotized in a cultlike fashion to Obama."

Projection much?

Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 12:18pm
Happy-Considering McCain's age his VP choice is a bit more important and this does ruin the whole experience thing.

Posted by i'm nobody at 08/29/2008 @ 12:18pm
BTW, everybody...even you Darin...

don't cut & paste what I post.

FRANK will see it (since I'm "on Ignore").

And he'll put YOU on Ignore and...

that'll teach ya!

heheh

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 12:19pm
When this story broke, I'd bet money that people's first reaction was "Who?". Not exactly a good omen.

Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 12:20pm
Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 12:18pm

90% of FRANK's criticism of others...is projection off himself.

NOBODY is a bigger cultist (of Her Nibs) than FRANK.

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 12:21pm
The decoy candidate -- she has breats, children and she is gutsy too! But hwere does she stand on women's issues? Will she support equal pay for equal work (most Republicans voted against it)? Will she support abortion? Will she support p[ublicly funded childcare? What is her class background? Just cause you can shoot and belly up to the bar doesn't mean you can't be a millionaire who doesn't have to worry about childcare, cleaning your house and cooking when you come home from work, taking a second job to pay for your down's syndrome child's extra needs.

Don't buy the fake!

Posted by geminijen at 08/29/2008 @ 12:23pm
Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008 @ 12:20pm

Darin, somebody's going to have to contradict themselves on ANWR.

Either McCain or Palin. If McCain...well, that's one more flip-flop. If Palin, she can get an early start on it.

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 12:24pm
She's a smart, edgy pol who is exceptionally popular in Alaska and has a story that the national media will enjoy telling almost as much as it does McCain's

Palin's married to a native Alaskan, she's got a kid in the Army, she likes to hunt and fish, eats moose burgers, and has taken on establishment Republicans to elbow her way onto the political stage.

---------

Mr Nichols just summed up the Republican narrative that soon the media will be feeding to all of us. Already I've seen her described twice as a "self-styled hockey mom." (That phrase must be in the media playbook now.) This woman could very well be the President if McCain is elected (highly likely). Plus, she looks like Britney in 20 years. We loves us a beauty queen!

Dumbocracy, we are doomed.

Posted by Citizen54 at 08/29/2008 @ 12:27pm
I really thought McCain would have gone with Condi Rice for two obvious reasons...and at least Condi does have some experience (With Chevron). Her government work has been horrible to say the least, but when has that ever stopped the rethugs from picking folks like that. Take Cheney for case in point. Here's an ex Haliburton CEO and oil man loyal to everything but the U.S. and it's constitution.

The only thing Palin has going for her is that she looks better than Cheney, or Biden for that matter, but that's about all she has going for her.

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/29/2008 @ 12:27pm
and look at the press fall all over themselves playing musical chairs like idiots....

Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 09:16am

ooh,

looks like viagara sales just went UP in redstateland.

"honey, bray like a moose, bray like a moose!"

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 12:32pm
"Expereince" as a factor at the top of the ticket is a far, far bigger deal than for the #2 spot......---Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/29/2008 @ 12:27pm

HAPPY, you got me on Ignore too??!?!??

LOL

Okay, somebody else ask him "What happens if McCain dies in office to that "#2 spot"?" and how much "expereince" does she have?

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 12:32pm
"Expereince" as a factor at the top of the ticket is a far, far bigger deal than for the #2 spot.......anyone that discounts that, has drunk Kool-aid for too long! This remains in McCain's column as a big Plus!"

Simply incorrect. The VP is supposed to be able to succeed the President, a particularly important factor given McCain's age. If you don't think that matters, you have forgotten the buzz regarding the Ferraro and Quayle nominations, to which this is already being compared.

"Cosmetic "Change" as a factor? From a race & gender standpoint, Magic's side retains the advantage for the `Change' at the top of the ticket while the GOP, catches up with the Demos for first putting Ferraro in the VP Nominee slot!"

Except change is about policies. Palin's presence on the ticket doesn't change the fact that a McCain administration would essentially be a Bush third term.

"let's go after the non-black women votes and whatever the Demos throw at Ms. Palin, frame it as a Sexist attack just as they have"

Yes, except for her anti-choice position. Frame criticism of that as sexist.

We haven't drunk the Kool-Aid. I do think you've had too much HAPPY juice, however.

Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 12:32pm
Sarah governed a lot of ice and tundra....I can't deny that!

LOL

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 09:58am

a LOT less ice and tundra than before!

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 12:33pm
According to the CDC's latest published national statistics reports, McCain has about a 15% chance of dying during the next 4 years. I wonder if America would be stupid enough to take a 15% chance that a woman who, until 2 years ago, was mayor of a town of less than 9,000.

Posted by DeezNats at 08/29/2008 @ 12:33pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 12:32pm

Hey, come on, FZ.....an Alaskan is ALMOST a Northwest Territorian!!!!

heheh

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 12:35pm
smart move...McCain needed something drastic since he knows he cannot beat Obama/Biden straight up. He took a risk that will either pay off big or backfire. A lot will have to do with how the press plays it out...the reason I'm worried is that the press will find it hard to bring up her faults because unlike Hillary "the devil" Clinton, she seems quite amiable.

Posted by danconstan at 08/29/2008 @ 12:35pm
john mccain has sex with moose!

Posted by SOMEONE at 13/32/1134 @ 10:61am

1. He was a prisoner of war and treatd horriblyand survived..

Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 10:33am

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 12:36pm
john mccain knows nothing about economics

Posted by SOMEONE at 13/32/1134 @ 10:61am

1. He was a prisoner of war and treatd horriblyand survived..

Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 10:33am

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 12:36pm
john mccain lives off his replacement wife.

Posted by SOMEONE at 13/32/1134 @ 10:61am

1. He was a prisoner of war and treatd horriblyand survived..

Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 10:33am

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 12:36pm
john mccain is the anti-christ.

Posted by SOMEONE at 13/32/1134 @ 10:61am

1. He was a prisoner of war and treatd horriblyand survived..

Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 10:33am

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 12:37pm
john mccain is a lunatic hypocrite.

Posted by SOMEONE at 13/32/1134 @ 10:61am

1. He was a prisoner of war and treatd horriblyand survived..

Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 10:33am

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 12:37pm
john mccain caught in bathroom stall!

Posted by SOMEONE at 13/32/1134 @ 10:61am

1. He was a prisoner of war and treatd horriblyand survived..

Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 10:33am

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 12:38pm
john mccain reads the nation!

Posted by SOMEONE at 13/32/1134 @ 10:61am

1. He was a prisoner of war and treatd horriblyand survived..

Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 10:33am

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 12:38pm
The Obama people don't know how to handle it so they immediately chose to go negative, bringing up a silly investigation that is going on involving a state trooper that was fired. They're trying to connect it to her sisters divorce problems as if anybody cares.

Posted by frankgrits at 08/29/2008 @ 12:16pm

Frank, Silly little investigation?! Frank, democrats and republicans voted 12-0 to have her investigated? Sounds like a motive of vengence. It's one thing if she soaps this guys car. It's quite another if she uses her high office to get the guy fired. That's abuse of power, not a "little invesigation".

Would you consider W's politicizing of the justice department a "little scenario" too? Keep in mind this person may end up being the vice president and possibly president of this country. Do you want them doing petty crap like that at the level?

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/29/2008 @ 12:38pm
john mccain was a prisoner of war and treatd horriblyand survived!

Posted by SOMEONE at 13/32/1134 @ 10:61am

1. He was a prisoner of war and treatd horriblyand survived..

Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 10:33am

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 12:38pm
john mccain was a prisoner of war and treatd horriblyand survived!

Posted by SOMEONE at 13/32/1134 @ 10:61am

1. burp!

Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 10:33am

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 12:39pm
Can't wait to see her in the debate with Biden.....hope she doesn't cry -- too much.

Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 12:39pm
The North Pole is Canada's problem, not Sarah's.

Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008 @ 12:09pm

hahahahhaha!

ignorance on SO many levels.

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 12:40pm
Give 'em credit, they have stolen Obamas wind.

Very quickly.

I notice her lapel pin is MUCH larger than Obamas. Overcompensation for something?

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 12:41pm
Could someone remind me of what Obama said last night. The media is covering Palin, and I already forgot what the big O said. I think he said he was going to give me a Prius, but I want to know when I'm going to get it.

Posted by sntauri at 08/29/2008 @ 12:42pm
Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 12:41pm

A li'l bit of mandingo flagpole envy?

Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 12:42pm
Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 12:41pm

A li'l bit of mandingo flagpole envy?

Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 12:42pm
She was a pot smoker!!

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 10:54am

hey dude,

it's like riding a bike.

just ask HAPPY.

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 12:43pm
Funniest things so far about MCains pick and pony show at "the Nutter Center":

1: He picked a UNION member to live in Cheneys house

2: He picked a pot smoker

3: There will be kids named "Willow" and Piper" running around Cheneys house. How flower child is that!? What will Rush have to say about this FemiNazi ?

4: He/she are harping on corruption and the need to change Washington. Who, oh who could they be talking about?

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 12:46pm
Egads, I'm listening to the live feed while I blog. She's got that north state "donthca know" sort of accent. Kind of annoying (in a funny way)

she is kinda hot tho....oughta pull in the trailer-park vote I reckon.

But I think she will totally tank the debate

Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 12:46pm
That seems positively quaint compared to Obama sellin' rock in the hood. Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008 @ 12:46pm

1: Thou Shalt not lie

2: Thou Shalt not bring False Witness.

Bad Christian! Bad! Put on your hair suit and do 5 laps.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 12:48pm
The more you post the more grateful I am you are a Canadian...you are getting close to ignored list...too much nonsense, Frosty...

spare us.

Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 12:42pm

Come on JM. It was pretty funny. Everyone posting here on the right side of the equation keeps bringing up the fact that McCain was a POW and does seem to use that as an answer to everything.

I don't think Frosty was just singling you out, though he did use your posts about umpteen times in a row....OK, I guess you have a a right to be semi pissed off.

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/29/2008 @ 12:48pm
Bad Christian! Bad! Put on your hair suit and do 5 laps.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 12:48pm

LOL!!!

Posted by Benchrest at 08/29/2008 @ 12:50pm
If elected will they have to assign an agent to little Trig so he doesn't keep pressing the big red "Easy" button in the Oval Office?

Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 12:50pm
Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 12:39pm

But would you trust her to run the United States of America if, God forbid, McCain's cancer acts up again and he has to step aside?

I think the answer is NO for the vast majority of Americans and this is why this was a dumb move by McCain.

Hillary voters supported Hillary not because she has a vagina, but because she has been working on women's issues for years.

Posted by Metteyya at 08/29/2008 @ 12:50pm
I thought that that was one of the most boring acceptance sppeces that I ever heard.

Posted by frankgrits at 08/29/2008 @ 11:24am

i have just read the most boring post by the most boring poster.

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 12:52pm
A li'l bit of mandingo flagpole envy? Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 12:42pm

Spewed milk out me nose!

LOL!

Frosty, luv ya man! JO just has a funny bone the size of Wasilla AK. Wish I could be in the booth when he votes for a lazy union member!

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 12:52pm
Posted by Metteyya at 08/29/2008 @ 12:50pm

She could bake us all some cookies!

Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 12:54pm
Relax, libs!

I just found out about this, and thought it was breaking news, but there are 162 posts in ahead of me.

A lot of comments above, that is good that we live in a free society with free speech where people can say what they want.

However, I did want to post in and let you on the left know that you can relax a little bit and start planning for the next phase, the one that immediately happens when Republicans win elections.

You will have to start preparing for your "The election was stolen mode" - that you will be going into next - because it was determined today:

President-elect of the United States: John McCain.

Vice-President-elect of the United States: Sarah Palin

Barack Obama and Joe Biden will just have to return to the Senate, and you libs can relax for a while.

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 12:54pm
would someone tell freak to stop spamming.

Posted by Zero at 08/29/2008 @ 11:42am

more like sperming given his enthusiasm.

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 12:56pm
If elected will they have to assign an agent to little Trig so he doesn't keep pressing the big red "Easy" button in the Oval Office? Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 12:50pm

Fine form today LOC!

The real problem is pushing the correct "red button".

Plus, I think Chimpy broke that Easy button from constant use.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 12:59pm
Plus, that state shares a border with a hostile nuclear power. How's that for foriegn experience?

Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008 @ 11:57am

ooooooooh,

the yukon!

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 1:00pm
.breaks even, or with low expectations...wins by surviving..

Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 12:55pm | i

Low expectations.

They rallying cry of republicans for the last 12 years.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 1:01pm
.breaks even, or with low expectations...wins by surviving..

Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 12:55pm | i

Low expectations.

They rallying cry of republicans for the last 12 years.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 1:02pm
That was the attraction to Obama, remember? now you're changing your tune.

Posted by frankgrits at 08/29/2008 @ 12:38pm | ignore this person | warn this person

Not at all. I believe that many more people had heard of Obama by the time he announced that have heard of Palin.

Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 1:07pm
Darin, she has a downs child a few months ago, and chooses to leave quiet AK for Washington DC to be the VP. Good Family Values in your book?

I found out I have a family member that knows Palins family fairly well. Maybe I can gain some juicy tidbits.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 1:09pm
That was the attraction to Obama, remember? now you're changing your tune.

Posted by frankgrits at 08/29/2008 @ 12:38pm | ignore this person | warn this person

Not at all. I believe that many more people had heard of Obama by the time he announced that have heard of Palin.

Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 1:09pm
But he doens't need ANWR any more.

••••• nor do you, guzzler.

The new environmentalist is all concerned about renewable energy investment.

••••• aren't you?

So he can drill until the renewable energy research delivers viable results (probably never)

••••• so what will you do when the oil runs out?

The fusion reactor in France will pay off while the money we piss away waiting for the fusion reactor to yeild results will be enough to placate the environmentalist concerned with ANWR.

••••• fusion?!?!? sure thing.

Posted by Darin_the_Greedy at 08/29/2008 @ 12:20pm

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 1:13pm
There will aslo be a kid with Downs Syndrome. Even though she knew well in advance that her child would have this condition, she chose not to abort because she believes all of God's children are precious.

I think Rush just might focus on this.

Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008

As well he should.

They are wonderful kids.

Posted by Benchrest at 08/29/2008 @ 1:14pm
Low expectations.

"Plus, that state shares a border with a hostile nuclear power. How's that for foriegn experience?" Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008 @ 11:57am

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 1:16pm
The pick of Palin will motivate the right to accelerate the slouching toward Babylon to a jog. Doesn't matter. They'd have arrived anyway. Petroleum jelly anyone?

Posted by Sorelish at 08/29/2008 @ 1:18pm
Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 10:33am

Brilliant. Let's put the button to all our nukes in the hands of someone who has been damaged by years of torture.

Posted by frankgrits at 08/29/2008 @ 12:04pm

Ah, yes. Frank Grits. Impossible to find a female conservative politican he doesn't like.

On a personal note, McCain is trying to play it too many different ways. You can't get the women vote, independent "maverick" vote, and still appeal to the "base" by taking hard stances on abortion, military "victory", and dedication to flawed Bush-lite foreign policies and all that right wing nonsense.

Fitting choice for McCain. I'll leave it to others to draw out all the obvious analogies between McCain/Palin and Mondale/Ferraro. Like:

When the press gets over gushing all over themselves and start asking questions about her, will this little bump last until Novermbet? I doubt it. It's the same as Ferraro.

I'm particularly interested in hearing how an Assemblies of God member - ostensibly a peace church - is going to look on the integrity front given McCain's militarism. Or do they just thinking hiding behind her lifetime NRA membership and connections with the military is going to shield her from these kinds of questions?

Posted by srjenkins at 08/29/2008 @ 1:19pm
There will aslo be a kid with Downs Syndrome. Even though she knew well in advance that her child would have this condition, she chose not to abort because she believes all of God's children are precious. I think Rush just might focus on this. Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008

Lev.21:17-23 Whosoever ... hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God. For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous, Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded, Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken; No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God. ... Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 1:23pm
This is what I love about this sort of punditry. Palin is barely mentioned in this context for months, but as soon as her name is announced, everyone leaps to write what a 'smart' choice she was, and all the reasons. If it was a 'smart' choice, why wan't it predictable?

Posted by sagibson at 08/29/2008 @ 1:24pm
BOTTOM LINE:

1. Palin is NOT ready to govern this country;

2. Palin has no clue when it comes to foreign policy;

3. Palin has no clue when it comes to the economy; and

4. Palin has a VINDICTIVE streak and an ABUSE OF POWER problem like Cheney/Rove

Posted by Metteyya at 08/29/2008 @ 1:24pm
Brilliant.

The whole weekend will be about her and not the rehashed 'hope and change' speech The Dahli Bama gave at the temple on thursday.

Nothing new to talk about with Nobama, and A LOT of new info in the McCain camp.

I bet Karl Rove is behind this.

Posted by Zamfeer at 08/29/2008 @ 1:25pm
Leviticus is such an ugly grouping of words.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 1:26pm
Let's be fair....

McCain and the Repubs/cons have set the bar at "experience" and "resume'"....so let's use that-

For instance...in 1984--

Barack Obama's Veep, Joe Biden, had been a US Senator for 11 years...

John McCain's Veep, Sarah Palin...

was Alaska's "Miss Congeniality"

(BTW, Obama had already graduated from Columbia, and worked for Business International Corporation and then at the New York Public Interest Research Group!....but he never even PLACED in a beauty pageant so, so what?)

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 1:27pm
Each side throws insults at each other.

Each side tries to be sarcasitc and smug.

Each side has people in this forum just posting just to post.

Does any of this actually change your minds?

Posted by ankcdisney at 08/29/2008 @ 1:28pm
Everyone needs to listen to Sarah Palins interview on current TV. She directly says she is not qualified. She then say that the job of VP is basically BS and then says she will answer everyones questions when they tell her what the VP's job is.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 1:31pm
"There was zero risk that anybody was going to take the comment seriously."

!!!

Posted by drhammer at 08/29/2008 @ 1:31pm
[McCain and the Repubs/cons have set the bar at "experience" and "resume'"]

New strateegery, basically announced at the Nutter Center; McCain will be running against the culture of corruption in Washington.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 1:32pm
Hello ankcdisney,

You just asked " Each side throws insults at each other. Each side tries to be sarcasitc and smug. Each side has people in this forum just posting just to post. Does any of this actually change your minds? "

The answer to your question is No.

But fortunately, today the fact that the minds will not change because the conservatives should not and the liberals will not - is moot, at least with regard to this topic.

Today is a day of celebration, as the 2008 election was decided today, with Sen. John McCain the Repbulican in Name Only (RINO) and Gov. Sarah Palin the Republican the next President and Vice-President of the United States.

Today is a day to be happy.

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 1:37pm
Of course Frank is foaming at the mouth. Frank doesn't care about anything but bashing Obama.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 1:38pm
Think some of you should look at Palin's record. She is one extremely well credentialed lady who has an extensive list of practical achievements, and a very wide experience of life which all have to do with the art of governing. Obama is a good orator but has a very thin "governing" CV when compared with Palin.

Foreign policy committee experience, as in Biden's case, hasn't helped him get it right on Iraq or for that matter on Afghanistan. Someone who knows how to govern well, as Palin obviously does, knows where to get and how to effectively use any needed information for such things as foreign policy.

Experience then, is pretty worthless if one doesn't learn from it and know how to properly call on it.

John Nichols knows a bit about Palin and is obviously too smart to make a fool of himself by rubbishing Palin as some partisan knee jerk reactionary posters here have done. He did omit to say that she, as a proven fighter against government corruption, is the only authentic "Washington Outsider" of the three.

(saw him interviewed on Aussie TV by one of our lefty journos, a day or so ago, and I can tell you JN was a lot more balanced and circumspect in his analysis of the Dem Convention than a reader of this magazine would expect. Perhaps he knows he can't feed Aussies the sort of partisan stuff he sometimes throws in your direction).

Further this former beauty queen is, on the basis of her achievements, to the economically illiterate McCain, what Dick Cheney was reputed to be to Bush on foreign policy.

All that aside I know, if I were an American, whose face out of Joe and Barack and Sarah I would like greeting me over my breakfast cereal. A conjoining of Old plus Beautiful for me anytime. That's a unity ticket to warm any red-blooded male's heart.

Posted by lrjones4 at 08/29/2008 @ 1:40pm
Hello Cccomfo1,

You just said:

" Everyone needs to listen to Sarah Palins interview on current TV. She directly says she is not qualified. She then say that the job of VP is basically BS and then says she will answer everyones questions when they tell her what the VP's job is. "

That's good. She apparently says what she thinks. The last President/Vice-President that did that was Harry Truman, and many people today regard him as a good President.

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 1:42pm
Frosty, The more you post the more grateful I am you are a Canadian...you are getting close to ignored list...too much nonsense, Frosty... spare us.

Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 12:42pm

JM,

everything you post about economics is nonsense.

you're a walking cliché generator.

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 1:44pm
You wanted integrity, you got it.

This is the funniest line from Frank. She is under INVESTIGATION for ethics violations. Jesus. You can;'t even make this up.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 1:45pm
>>>Sounds alot like Obama...

Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 1:35pm<<<

Wrong!

Obama has showed BETTER JUDGMENT on the core foreign policy issues of the day than even McCain and he has been on the Senate Foreign Relations committee for 3 years.

Unlike Palin's pawltry 18 months experience as governor of a state with a VERY small population like Alaska, Obama spent 8 years in the Illinois state senate prior to coming to Washington, rising to the president of the senate in his last year.

And on the economy, Palin's communications degree at Idaho state college does not prepare her for the economic challenges in government and she has not had any economic policy initiative other than raising taxes on the the residents of a small town in Alaska where she was a part-time Mayor.

She has no academic and education qualifications and no experiences to qualify her to step in as president.

This the MOST UNQUALIFIED VP in the history of the United States!

Posted by Metteyya at 08/29/2008 @ 1:46pm
Hello lrjones4,

About your comment:

" Foreign policy committee experience, as in Biden's case, hasn't helped him get it right on Iraq or for that matter on Afghanistan "

I would add that an even more glaring example was that of Mr. Peanut, Jimmy Carter.

He did have no experience in that area going into his presidency, but he had a wealth of ideas and knowledge of and opinions about foreign affairs, and still does.

However, since every last one of his ideas or opinions about the subject were and are WRONG, his knowledge and ideas did the country no good, to say the least.

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 1:48pm
That's good. She apparently says what she thinks. The last President/Vice-President that did that was Harry Truman, and many people today regard him as a good President. Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 1:42pm

But that's the problem she is acknowledging it as a trophy position and nothing more. In so doing she is acknowledging that his pick was a pander and nothing more.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 1:48pm
JO, just want to get this straight

You will be voting for a person with little experience, a person that holds a liberal arts degree in journalism, CONTINUES to be a union member, advocates for the teaching of creationism in schools (think critical thinking skills here), supported guvt bailout for a guvt owned dairy using tax payer money, puts her career ahead of her family, received a whopping 147,000 votes to be governor, and (according to IM) belongs to a peace church?

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 1:51pm
Frosty, The more you post the more grateful I am you are a Canadian...you are getting close to ignored list...too much nonsense, Frosty... spare us.

Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/29/2008 @ 12:42pm

plus,

i think i made a valid point.

any criticism of mccain is countered with "he was a POW".

THAT is nonsense.

BTW have you answered my question about the #1 creator of budget deficits?

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 1:52pm
I always thought this "experience" nonsense concerning Obama was simply an excuse for racist voters to vote against him.

"We aren't voting against him because he is black, it's because he doesn't have experience". Sounds like a racist employer trying to justify why he hired a busty blond rather than a highly qualified black man.

With McCain's choice of Palin, this suspicion has been confirmed!

Posted by Metteyya at 08/29/2008 @ 1:52pm
sjchermak,

You just made my point to me about what is going on. All you did was a smug comment saying conservitives are right and liberals are stubborn.

Let us be really honest here. This is a close race. Very close. I know what I believe but I listen to both sides. I think this is a bad mistake because it looks much like a ploy towards women. Palin's remark using Hilary's 18 million cracks shows that plain as day. That is one point. A second point is looking at the overall experience. People say that VP experience isn't important. That is incorrect. McCain (and any president that is) could die and the VP is suppose to be ready to take over if needed. I do not see anything in her history that makes me think that she can do it. She is a great choice to most Republican in her positions. We like our guys. You like your guys.

Lucky, it all comes out in the ballot box. I'm not a hateful or spiteful man. I listen and I look at all sides. If you show me something that is fact, not polish, I'll listen to you.

Posted by ankcdisney at 08/29/2008 @ 1:54pm
Given that Senator McCain's two main talking points, reasons why we should choose him over Senator Obama, have been experience and judgment, this would seem to take those arguments off the table.

I guess the new one will be "I have a woman on my ticket!". Gov. Palin may have just given us a hint of another one; in her speech this morning, she referred to Senator McCain as "John F. McCain".

It would appear that the Republicans now have a "dream ticket"; however, it is probably the Democrat's dream.

Posted by ron cypert at 08/29/2008 @ 1:56pm
Whoops, sorry.

Gov Palin received 114,697 votes, not 147,ooo.

Not even the population of my home town.

good thing Vladimir has a "good soul" and Adidhiminthejohn is stable of mind.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 1:58pm
frankGrits-No one chanted USA when the Clintons spoke,either.Get over your tantrum and mature a bit so that you can get honest with yourself..

Posted by i'm nobody at 08/29/2008 @ 2:07pm
Barack Obama Campaign Spokesman Bill Burton responds to John McCain's choice of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his running mate:

"Today, John McCain put the former mayor of a town of 9,000 with zero foreign policy experience a heartbeat away from the presidency. Governor Palin shares John McCain's commitment to overturning Roe v. Wade, the agenda of Big Oil and continuing George Bush's failed economic policies -- that's not the change we need, it's just more of the same."

Sen. Chuck Schumer says:

"After the great success of the Democratic convention, the choice of Sarah Palin is surely a Hail Mary pass. It is a real roll of the dice and shows how John McCain, Karl Rove et al realize what a strong position the Obama-Biden team and Democrats in general are in in this election. Certainly the choice of Palin puts to rest any argument about inexperience on the Democratic team and while Palin is a fine person, her lack of experience makes the thought of her assuming the presidency troubling. I particularly look forward to the Biden-Palin debate in Missouri."

Rep. Rahm Emanuel:

"Is this really who the Republican Party wants to be one heartbeat away from the Presidency? Given Sarah Palin's lack of experience on every front and on nearly every issue, this Vice Presidential pick doesn't show judgment: it shows political panic."

Rep. Jim Clyburn on South Carolina ETV Radio:

"I do believe that McCain has to do something to reshuffle the cards, shake up the establishment, do something unexpected and Governor Palin has all the kinds of things that McCain might see as a way to shake things up. I think [her selection] would be something similar to Dan Quayle. Dan Quayle proved to be sort of an embarrassment as a campaigner.

Posted by Metteyya at 08/29/2008 @ 2:11pm
I love the Repubs like Happy and Darin trying to make more of this than it is. Every woman in this country sees this for what it is, pandering. He chose a young, attractive woman with no care for her experience or credibility. Happy and Frank as much as you try to say she doesn't need experience because she is the VP, that is not how most people view it. McCain is 72 and not in the greatest of health. His VP pick HAS to be able to step up into the slot. According to her she doesn't even know what the slot she is in now does. She is also under investigation for ethics violations.

Also. These women who he is pandering to are intelligent women. They see how contrived his pick is. I don't know if you've noticed but I would personally be insulted because he picked a woman only because she is a woman. There are much better people he could have picked out there. Hell there are much better women he could have picked. This is essentially what they accuse Obama of. She is an affirmative action candidate. She is being chosen not because she is superior to the other VP choices. She is being chosen because she is a woman and MAY be able to net him a gain in the women votes.

I thought you were against affirmative action Happy.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 2:13pm
Hello Ccomfor1 and also ankcdisney,

You said (Ccomfor1) "But that's the problem she is acknowledging it as a trophy position and nothing more. In so doing she is acknowledging that his pick was a pander and nothing more."

Then you, (ankcdisney) said ""Lucky, it all comes out in the ballot box. I'm not a hateful or spiteful man. I listen and I look at all sides. If you show me something that is fact, not polish, I'll listen to you.""

Here is why Sarah Palin was a good pick for VP:

1. The pick was not a "pander" but strategic, as many VP picks are - such as when John F. Kennedy chose Lyndon Johnson in 1960.

2. She is young, to offset McCain's age.

3. She is sufficiently Conservative to offset McCain's "maverick" behavior and the pick will not anger the Conservative base, as some other potential McCain picks may have done.

4. She is pro-life. I think this is extremely important. For many years now abortion has been cast as a "women's issue" by the left. We hear from many liberal women that it is their body and nobody dare tell them what to do with it. But there are many women who do not feel they have a "right to choose" and maybe now that will get some more public attention.

5. As a state governor she has administrative experience - more valuable to have a Senator and a Governor on a ticket than 2 Senators like the Dems have.

6. Regardless of whether one thinks the VP is of any significance or not, the job does have more involvement in important things now than in days past, such as when Harry Truman did not even know the U.S. was developing the atom bomb until he became President.

7. Her being a woman should not matter but right now there are a lot of Hillary supporters that are mad and will vote for McCain - Palin.

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 2:13pm
Rep. Jim Clyburn on South Carolina ETV Radio:

"I do believe that McCain has to do something to reshuffle the cards, shake up the establishment, do something unexpected and Governor Palin has all the kinds of things that McCain might see as a way to shake things up. I think [her selection] would be something similar to Dan Quayle. Dan Quayle proved to be sort of an embarrassment as a campaigner. Being thrust on a national stage like that could be very tough. Now Mondale tried to shake things up by going with Geraldine Ferraro.she proved to be a disaster as a running mate. And as a campaigner, she was absolutely awful. And so I just think that it is very risky for McCain to do this, but it may be all he has left."

Meanwhile, the non-partisan group Campaign Money Watch responded that the pick underscores McCain's loss of maverick reformer credentials:

"In choosing Governor Palin, Senator McCain is clearly trying to shore up his past maverick reformer image - an image that is now in tatters due to the type of campaign he's run and the big money lobbyists he depends on every day of the week," Donnelly said.

"This selection raises plenty of questions," Donnelly continued. "She bills herself as a reformer, but has been silent on whether she supports public financing of elections in her own state. As governor of an oil-producing state, she's been a friend to Big Oil. Given John McCain's extensive fundraising from Big Oil, her selection raises concerns of whether the McCain-Palin ticket will promise the same access for oil companies and their lobbyists that we've seen for nearly eight years from the Bush-Cheney administration."

Posted by Metteyya at 08/29/2008 @ 2:14pm
It's quite obvious that republicans know how bad this choice is and are having quite a difficult time spinning it.Had McCain picked someone with lots of experience he would have won as long as his choice wasn't too repulsive and that is particularly true if the experienced person had been a woman or racial minority,but he picks one that won't overshadow him,bit won't get him much,either.Of course,we know that McCain likes his women to be much younger than him which may have something to do with the choice.

Posted by i'm nobody at 08/29/2008 @ 2:14pm
Rock-ribbed Righties like that they finally get to put a pretty face on hard-core conservatism...

but Palin KILLS the one thing that McCain has constantly bashed Obama on...

and that WORKED...."experience".

Now, on his SEVENTY-SECOND birthday, he picks somebody who won less votes as governor than most MEDIUM-sized city mayors....and who has been in office for HALF of Obama's tenure as a Senator.

The adrenalin will fade....

and eventually Palin will debate foreign policy against Joe Biden ...

and of course the Repubs will WAAAAAAAAAAAY under play expectations on that....they'll say "Biden is Cicero...Palin a rank amatuer"...so that if she knows the capital of Ukraine, she'll have "won it".

But all in all, she'll merely be the "Republican Ferraro"...a big boost out of the Convention...that rapidly fizzles out.

Oh and keep an eye out for LOTS of pictures from the 1984 Miss Alaska swimsuit competition!

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 2:17pm
sjchermak,

For republicans, I agree it's a good pick. The biggest question goes to your comment of her age.

What happens if McCain dies in office?

Posted by ankcdisney at 08/29/2008 @ 2:18pm
This choice of Palin has succeeded in exposing all the rationalizing here and elsewhere about Obama's flip-floping on issues that were important to progressives: Campaign finance reform, FISA, drilling, an end to the bellicose foreign policy. With Palin uniting the Republicans, the patent stupidity of the Democrats fronting a posuer now becomes clear. Obama has lost significant support among progressives according to Zogby because of his eel-like flip-flops. That support is already lost and not recoverable. The only hope the DNC synchophants that think like Rahm Emanuel and call themselves "netroots" ever had was for Obama to appear real on change while McCain fretted about what the Evangelicals might do. Those questions are resolved now.

Posted by john lowell at 08/29/2008 @ 2:18pm
Her being a woman should not matter but right now there are a lot of Hillary supporters that are mad and will vote for McCain - Palin. Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 2:13pm

This last point I think is the opposite. I think a lot of intelligent Hillary supporters will look at this as calling them stupid enough to vote just because someone is a woman. I would be pissed right now if I was her and if I was the women being pandered to.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 2:18pm
Hello ankcdisney,

You want to know what happens if McCain dies.

By then Sarah Palin will have gained enough experience being 2nd in command, working with the President, to be able to take over.

Instead of Barack Obama, who would enter the White House with no experience, and who would he get that experience from?

Plus, it ususally happens that some of the people who staff an administration are people who have served in prior administrations.

With McCain-Palin, you get experience from people who do not believe in surrender to our enemies and weakining the military. With Obama-Biden, you would get experienced Democrats who would then set about weakening the military and letting other countries dictate what the U.S. should do.

The experience Obama would bring with him is experience we do not need.

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 2:38pm
Hello Cccomfor1,

Women have not been pandered to with this pick. Sarah Palin has enough experience in her own right to qualify as VP.

Hillary Clinton is no more qualified than Sarah Palin to be President or Vice President. She has never held an administrative position like Governor, as compared to her job as Senator.

And what totally disqualifies Hillary is not amount of experience, but experience in some of the wrong things.

Experience in lies, deception and corruption, that both she and "Bill" engaged in during the 8 Clinton years.

Experience in taking credit for the efforts Sen. Chuck Shumer did right after September 11 to get help quickly to those who needed it.

I can not fathom how Hillary supporters could look at the choice of someone who is cleary much better than the person they support (Hillary) and consider it pandering, just because Gov. Palin is a woman.

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 2:47pm
Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 1:23pm

LOL......gotta love old Leviticus. So Palin is "damned if she do, and damned if she don't" ...so to speak

& thanks Crabs....like your posts too

Posted by lrjones4 at 08/29/2008 @ 1:40pm

" A conjoining of Old plus Beautiful for me anytime. That's a unity ticket to warm any red-blooded male's heart." You know...LR might have something there. I remember renting a porno movie once with that theme. Old geezer, young hot librarian. Is that what the GOP campaign will be based on...cheesy old porn?

How's this for a headline "Palin, in bed with big oil" Headline, or porno movie ad?

Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 2:48pm
Wait til you see Sarah Barracuda chew up and spit Biden the Buffoon out like used chewing gum. If she can stand up to the corrupt political machine, she's got my vote forever, and Biden is neck deep in that despicable club and Obama Is just one of the newest members. They get sweetheart deals for themselves and their families while they pretend to be for the little guy. Look at Biden's family connections and Obama's wife unusually salary increase (over 100%) just after he secures millions of dollars of grant money for her hospital. Time for the Barracuda to help McCain chew op the corruption in Washington!

Posted by mldetch at 08/29/2008 @ 2:51pm
Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/29/2008 @ 2:47pm

Keep hoping happy.

I am already seeing and hearing women saying they are insulted.

I love this. Couldn't have bought an opportunity like this.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 2:52pm
So much flip-floppin goin' on in here I thought for a moment I had stumbled into an IHOP.

I just hope the neo-cons don't throw out their backs bending over to accommodate both sides of the positions they are now assuming.

Left leg on green, left arm on yellow, right arm on experience, left arm around the beauty queens waist.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 2:53pm
So much flip-floppin goin' on in here I thought for a moment I had stumbled into an IHOP.

I just hope the neo-cons don't throw out their backs bending over to accommodate both sides of the positions they are now assuming.

Left leg on green, right leg on yellow, right arm on experience, left arm around the beauty queens waist.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 2:53pm
I'm a little giddy right now about this choice.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 2:54pm
mldetch, You do realize that Sarah is being investigated by a 12-0 bipartisan vote for abusing her power.

right?

Posted by ankcdisney at 08/29/2008 @ 2:56pm
"if McCain dies in office.." There'll always be Dick Cheney to advise the Christian-right, abortion-hating, moose eating, ice hocket mom..

d9ck cheney to advise

Posted by hkaplan at 08/29/2008 @ 2:57pm
Tell me, where exactly is Daddy Magic and Mommy Magic? for the oh-so-youthful Junior Magic?

Daddy McCain died at age 70. Barack Obama, Sr. died in an auto accident while his mother died of ovarian cancer (I think Obama will be spared that possibility).

"Think some of you should look at Palin's record. She is one extremely well credentialed lady who has an extensive list of practical achievements, and a very wide experience of life which all have to do with the art of governing."

We have looked at it. Two years running a state with the population of Fort Worth and being the mayor of a small town don't make her "extremely well-credentialed".

Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 2:57pm
I think she is a great pick and find her very attractive--especially for an older women. And her daughters look good too.

Posted by nadal at 08/29/2008 @ 2:58pm
Posted by ankcdisney at 08/29/2008 @ 2:56pm

Egads ... she's McCain in drag

Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 2:58pm
Time for the Barracuda to help McCain chew op the corruption in Washington! Posted by mldetch at 08/29/2008 @ 2:51pm

did you have any particular corruption in mind, or just that of the last 8 years?

Imagine, the cons going into the booth to root out the corrupt pols they voted for in the past. Somebody pass me the syrup.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 3:01pm
The strategy is simple.

Picked an inexperienced running mate.

Let the democrats foam at the mouth for days about how inexperienced she is.

Let the American public wake up from the Obama Coma and realize...

Hey wait a second....

He (Obama) doesn't have any experience EITHER!

Whew! That was a close one.

I'm supporting McCain.

Keep criticizing her.

Posted by Zamfeer at 08/29/2008 @ 3:03pm
Just great. Ken and Barbie can have another baby to celebrate winning the White House. Wonder if she'll ever get to parley with Putin and Kim Jong Il while nursing and showing off her baby pictures.

Alaska isn't all ice and tundra, but, we are big and very diverse in population. Palin's a good governor. But, Ms. anti-deception swore up and down she wasn't interested in leaving the governor's mansion.

McGramps, Ralph Reed, and their ilk have the kind of baggage that Palin went up against. How will she square herself with that?

High school grad, beauty queen, small town mayor, 1.75 yrs. as governor going head to head with Russia, N. Korea, and Iran? The economy? I'm moving to Iceland if they get elected.

Brooke Heppinstall alt. delegate Clinton Alaska

Posted by alaskadiva at 08/29/2008 @ 3:06pm
"1. The pick was not a "pander" but strategic, as many VP picks are - such as when John F. Kennedy chose Lyndon Johnson in 1960."

We you have something clearly as unctuous as McCain picking her because she's a woman, that's a pander. LBJ actually demonstrated that he had much of the Democratic party behind him.

"4. She is pro-life. I think this is extremely important. For many years now abortion has been cast as a "women's issue" by the left. We hear from many liberal women that it is their body and nobody dare tell them what to do with it. But there are many women who do not feel they have a "right to choose" and maybe now that will get some more public attention." 7. Her being a woman should not matter but right now there are a lot of Hillary supporters that are mad and will vote for McCain - Palin."

Sorry, but being in favor of forced childbirth won't bring in any of the possibly disgruntled Hilary supporters he was clearly gunning for. If she weren't such a non-entity, there would be the prospect of helping him with the evangelical vote--but Huckabee would've been a far better choice for that.

"5. As a state governor she has administrative experience - more valuable to have a Senator and a Governor on a ticket than 2 Senators like the Dems have."

As has been pointed out, she is the governor of a state with a population smaller than our largest cities.

Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 3:06pm
"Hillary Clinton is no more qualified than Sarah Palin to be President or Vice President. She has never held an administrative position like Governor, as compared to her job as Senator.

And what totally disqualifies Hillary is not amount of experience, but experience in some of the wrong things.

Experience in lies, deception and corruption, that both she and "Bill" engaged in during the 8 Clinton years. "

That is laughable. By the Clinton years, do you mean the eight years of peace and prosperity? Her experience in the Senate gives her a much greater acquaintance with federal affairs.

"With McCain-Palin, you get experience from people who do not believe in surrender to our enemies and weakining the military. With Obama-Biden, you would get experienced Democrats who would then set about weakening the military and letting other countries dictate what the U.S. should do."

It's impossible to take you seriously. Iraq has done more to weaken our military than anything else. Incidentally,pulling out of a quagmire and putting more troops in Afghanistan is hardly surrender.

Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 3:09pm
Okay, FROSTY....Google challenge time-

I found the "crown & roses" shot-

http://www.tmz.com/2008/08/29/mccains-vp-miss-alaska-loser/

You need to find the swimsuit competition pics!

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 3:09pm
There is zero risk that anybody is going to take my comments seriously. Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008 @ 12:53pm | ignore this person | warn this person

Posted by emile duBois at 08/29/2008 @ 3:10pm
Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 3:06pm

AND SHES UNDER INVESTIGATION.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 3:11pm
Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/29/2008 @ 3:11pm |

Okay, HAPP...play it both ways..

Obama dies in office, a 30 year veteran of the Senate and expert on foreign affairs becomes President....

McCain dies in office, "Miss Congeniality-Alaska 1984" becomes President....

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 3:13pm
AK diva .. can you come up with the Palin swimsuit pic? I sure can't find it (and I'm usually so good at this sort of thing...)

Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 3:15pm
It is not ageism when you are looking directly at the very real possibility that he might not surive the first term. I do not wish this. I hope he lives quite a while but there is a very real fear there. Even if he was not at an age that the possibility of death is the elephant in the room, The VP of the United States needs to be at least experienced enough to take over at any time (aka assassination, accident, etc.)

She just doesn't have it and McCain doesn't get it.

Posted by ankcdisney at 08/29/2008 @ 3:21pm
Posted by frankgrits at 08/29/2008 @ 3:19pm |

Keep talking up Palin, FRANK....

if she runs against Hillary in 2012, it'll be GREAT watching you say "That was then, this is now"...again!

BTW....anybody NOT on FG's Ignore list, ask him why he's suddenly "pro-life", "anti-gay marriage", and believes in creationism?

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 3:22pm
Brunowe,

Here we go at it again, Peace and prosperity when Bill Clinton was president?

The economy was going into a downturn when Clinton left the presidency.

He treated terror as a criminal matter, thus setting the stage for worse after he left office. He, and Jimmy Carter, weakened the military during their time in office.

This appears to be typical of a modern-day Democrat to do this, thus it would be expected of Obama also.

And you mentioned Iraq and Afghanistan. What about if a new front of the war on terror opens up if Obama were to be president? (fortunately the election was decided today, by the way, and that won't happen).

If Obama were president, he would go to the U.N., we would engage in peace and dialog and negotiation and discussion and do what Europe would want us to do, and thus we would have been in a weaker position, and the cause of our enemies advanced.

This is an important consideration when choosing a candidate in 2012 (2008 has already been decided) as considerations about Iraq and/or Afghanistan. What would a potential Democrat do, and how would that action harm our country?

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 3:24pm
2Happy,

Are we reduced to racial insults now? You just lost any credibility you may of had in your arguement.

Posted by ankcdisney at 08/29/2008 @ 3:25pm
Reversed Sexism

Posted by nicholasclaxton at 08/29/2008 @ 3:26pm
Governor Sarah Palin is this election's Admiral James Stockdale. Which equals ... No way, No chance, No how, No McCain/Palin!!!

Posted by BleedingBlue at 08/29/2008 @ 3:27pm
McCain may have, oh, taking an educated guess.....4, 5, 6 & 7% chances of dying in office. But, what the chances of Magic dying in office based on his mother's early death and PLUS, HE WAS A SMOKER until just within the past 12 months?

Actually according to the CDC McCain has about a 12% chance of making it through his Presidential years. The life expectancy of most men is early 70s

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 3:28pm
McCain has made a pretty weak choice here.

A. Who? B. City counsel, then 2 years as Governor, backing up a 72-year-old man? C. Will not appeal to 'independents.' Pretty hard rightist. D. Hillary voters, who support the right to choose, and every other feminist agenda item, are not going for someone who doesn't care about feminism. E. Who?

Posted by ElyDog at 08/29/2008 @ 3:31pm
Okay,

With the conversation above about dying, lets get it out on the table right now. I have vibes, don't ask me why, about what is going to happen.

Sarah Palin will be the 45th President of the United States of America.

President John McCain will be the first President since Franklin D. Roosevelt to leave office early because of his health, if you get my drift.

Sarah Palin will do just fine as President. She will win re-election in 2012.

I don't have any vibes at all as to who she would pick as Vice-President. Maybe somebody who doesn't even come up in conversation today. We will just have to see.

Somebody above, I don't remember who, was wondering how she would match up against Vladmir Putin.

Putin won't even know what hit him!

Sarah Palin will do just fine. The country will be find. Everybody can relax.

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 3:34pm
How's this for a headline "Palin, in bed with big oil" Headline, or porno movie ad?

Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 2:48pm

I didn't exactly have a porno in mind LOC but I'll have to remember how easy it is to get corrupted when visiting with Liberals. (Think you may find on further investigation that she is not all that keen on getting into bed with oil companies. Particularly where government corruption is involved)

You may have noticed very quickly as I did that Palin doesn't take ACC very seriously (along with about 75% of your mob according to a poll I saw recently). That should endear her to the 75% who probably are beginning to realise, as Aussie blue collar workers are right now much to their horror, that a carbon trading scheme, being introduced by "their PM" is about the best way to lose their jobs to Asia and/or increase their energy bills astronomically.

This is one flip-flop, in the interest of harmony with his VP choice that might earn the maverick more votes than just a greater share of the women's vote.

Posted by lrjones4 at 08/29/2008 @ 3:34pm
Hmmm, THAT didn't take long, did it?

On top of that, what's Half & Half's chance of being assassinated over and above what McCain may also face?"----Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/29/2008 @ 3:21pm

Statistics and facts ugly things I know, HAPP....but McDaddy is 72 years old. Obama 48 years old. STATISTICALLY one of them more likely to pass away.

Now, YOU GUYS, just ATE months and months and months of "Experience is VITAL in a potential President"...by picking a woman who has been governor for 2 years of a state with a population less than Jacksonville, Florida.

and said "She's ready to become President!"

And we appreciate that, cuz it means McCain just undercut the ONE argument that polls have shown most hurt Obama...

in order to try a lame "Hail Mary pass" for attention and the DESPERATE attempt at winning over "Hillary voters"...WHO if they WERE going to vote for McCain, would vote for him anyway.

Good tactics, cutting into Obama's speech coverage....BAD strategy going into the Fall.

BTW, I bet YOU want to see those swimsuit competition pictures as much as anybody, huh?

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 3:35pm
Governor Sarah Palin is not the best Republican Woman. McCain slapped two of the best in the face, but that isn't surprising for an attacker of women in wheelchairs.

Two of them have been on Forbes Magazine's World's 100 Most Powerful Women.

Maine's Senator Olympia J. Snowe:

In 2006 Time Magazine named her one of the top ten U.S. Senators. Calling her "The Caretaker," Time magazine wrote of Snowe: "Because of her centrist views and eagerness to get beyond partisan point scoring, Maine Republican Olympia Snowe is in the center of every policy debate in Washington., but while Snowe is a major player on national issues, she is also known as one of the most effective advocates for her constituents."

Texas's Kay Bailey Hutchinson:

Senator Hutchison has played a vital role in shaping America's defense policy and fulfilling our nation's promises to our veterans as former Chairman and now Ranking Member of the Appropriations Subcommittee on Military Construction and Veterans Affairs and as a member of the Appropriations Subcommittee on Defense . She introduced and passed legislation creating an Overseas Basing Commission, which conducted a comprehensive review of the U.S. military's global footprint to help ensure that our Armed Forces are prepared to meet 21st century threats. She currently serves as Chairman of the Board of Visitors for the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. She received the National Military Family Association Award for Service to Military Families, 2001

McCain's choice shows that he is not capable of making important decisions. With his temper we do not need him anywhere close to the White House.

Posted by argonaut at 08/29/2008 @ 3:35pm
Darin ... I guess it did steal some thunder.

2Hap .... buy a sense of humor or something similar. I'm also showing "ageism" (as in McSame is too old) and "Dumbism" as he graduated in in the bottom 1% of his class...I say he's too fucking stupid to be POTUS.

how's that?

Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 3:35pm
Frank, I am not looking at him as some 90 year old man, I'm looking at someone who, while health, picked someone who is not ready to be Commander in Chief if something happens.

Yes, There are arguements about Obama's ability but my discussion is about her.

Posted by ankcdisney at 08/29/2008 @ 3:35pm
typo,

I meant "The country will be fine" up above.

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 3:37pm
Plus, that state shares a border with a hostile nuclear power. How's that for foriegn experience?

Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008

Wait now Darin, Now you're trying to tell us that Santa Claus runs a hostile nuclear state? Now we've even managed to piss of the C. man. We're screwed.

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/29/2008 @ 3:37pm
i'm looking.

found this:

(no pics, but still funny)

http://www.missamerica.org/news/press-releases.aspx?id=342

National Election News from The Miss America Organization

McCain Names Former Miss Alaska Contestant as Running Mate

We are pleased to announce that former Miss Alaska contestant, Sarah Heath Palin, has just been named as John McCain's vice-presidential candidate on the Republican ticket. In 1984, Palin was chosen as Miss Wasilla and went on to become the first runner-up in the Miss Alaska Pageant and received the Miss Congeniality award the same year. HER HUSBAND, TODD PALIN WAS A JUDGE IN THE 2008 MISS ALASKA PAGEANT.

Congratulations on this exciting news for the Miss Alaska Organization!

MISS MINNESOTA ANGELA MCDERMOTT TO PERFORM AT THE NATIONAL REPUBLICAN CONVENTION ON SEPTEMBER 1ST

Millions of people around the world will be watching as the Republican Party convenes its 39th nominating convention in Minneapolis – St. Paul.

The roughly 2,380 delegates and 2,227 alternate delegates elected to represent their states and territories will play a critical role in our nation's democratic process – and secure a place in political history as will our own Miss Minnesota, Angela McDermott who will perform the national anthem to mark the opening day celebration of the national convention.

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 3:41pm
Lord, between the gushing about how "attractive" this woman is, all the talk about experience - when everyone running on a major ticket doesn't have executive experience worth talking about that ignores the fact that both McCain, and faux tough guy talk about "Bring It on, Libs!", I'm having trouble identifying any kind of substantive or interesting commentary in this thread.

At least Mask, with his harping about experience, is on point.

And Frank Grits, didn't this guy say he was leaving forever? Shoot, I didn't used to mind his commentary until he lost his mind due to "sour grapes" over HRC. Let it go. I'd like to read something that didn't sound like you were desperately coming out to say something positive about Old Man McCain.

Posted by srjenkins at 08/29/2008 @ 3:42pm
Sarah Palin will do just fine as President. She will win re-election in 2012.

I don't have any vibes at all as to who she would pick as Vice-President. Maybe somebody who doesn't even come up in conversation today. We will just have to see.

Somebody above, I don't remember who, was wondering how she would match up against Vladmir Putin.

Putin won't even know what hit him!

Sarah Palin will do just fine. The country will be find. Everybody can relax.

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 3:34pm

SJ, What kind of medications are you using?!

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/29/2008 @ 3:43pm
The women that are in the news saying that they voted for Senator Clinton and are now for John McCain, I bet they are the Republican women that Russ Limbaugh was telling to cross over and vote for Hillary during the Primaries. I had wished that crossing over like that was against the law and they all should have been thrown in jail.

Posted by argonaut at 08/29/2008 @ 3:44pm
Posted by srjenkins at 08/29/2008 @ 3:42pm

I can't wait to hear all the "Hillary voters" who LOVE the idea of a woman Veep...

who is vehemently anti-choice on abortion!

I'm sure they could share a single Excurusion to the GOP Convention!

Posted by Maskdelta at 08/29/2008 @ 3:45pm
too funny!

in 1984, ms. palin lost to an african american!

(in alaska?!?!?)

her name,

maryline blackburn.

(i kid you not).

http://www.missalaskapageant.com/50yearsofmissalaska.html

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 3:48pm
sjchermak, I'm confused. Is it you don't want to vote for Obama because of his lack of experience or voting for McCain knowing that the inexperienced Sarah is set to be president?

Posted by ankcdisney at 08/29/2008 @ 3:49pm
i heard that mccain is considering lauren caitlin upton for secretary of state.

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 3:50pm
well mask,

no luck.

but it sure has been fun trying.

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 3:57pm
So we basically ingore all the crazy shit in Leviticus.

Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008

YOU MEAN LIKE SANE MUSLIMS DO??????????????????????????????

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 3:58pm
I have to admit that I was very surprised by this choice. The GOP is known for playing it safe and generally speaking when an election is close (like people say this one is) they tend to make a more conservative choice (not shoot for the moon).

Did the McCain internal polls show that they really needed to shake this one up? Did it show a need to shore up his base with a choice that was unequivocal on God, guns and gays? If you are not conflicted by this choice as a liberal, conservative or moderate, then you are lying. This choice could honestly go either way and I think we all know it.

Positives: 1) Looks -- yeah it's needed for this ticket that just looks stale 2)Change -- now she is in lockstep with many of the Bush policies and the conservative agenda but her background and sort of free spirit could paint her as "an agent of change" 3)Gender Politics -- Will this be seen as a pander to Hillary voters? Can you answer the question, "if she were a man with the same resume, would mccain have picked her?" But it could get some younger women who identify with her or older women that want to see someone near the oval office.

Negatives: 1) Lack of Experience -- Yeah the conservatives on here will belittle Obama, but can you say with a straight face that 20 months as gov. of a state that has such a small population is enough experience? (foreign or domestic) It does sort of deflate the whole main argument for McCain, that Obama doesn't have enough experience, then why choose someone who has less? 2)Gender Politics -- Will this be seen as a pander? 3) Lack of Political Experience -- She will be closely watched for gaffes and to see if she has what it takes to deliver in a national campaign, and that is just an unknown.

Posted by Tzimisce at 08/29/2008 @ 4:03pm
Hello ankcdisney,

I will vote for McCain-Palin, and not Obama-Biden (Democrats) because I believe in a strong national defense and not letting Europe decide American foreign policy, and because I believe in getting government off of people's backs so that we can have growth and opportunity in this country so people can succeed. And I believe in fixing the schools by stopping the liberal influence in how kids are educated, which has resulted in some dumbed-down kids in recent years (at best) and at worst many kids denied a decent eduation, which is supposed to be the great equalizer in American society.

I have not been raising the experience issue here, and only commented on it a little bit and on the fact that by the time Gov. Palin has to assume the Presidency she will have experience. The paragraph above reflects why I will be voting the way I do.

(although McCain would not have been my first choice to do the government getting off of people's backs part- but it is what it is now and have to vote with the candidate available)

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 4:03pm
You talk about Mccain like he's ninty years old. He's only seventy-two for God's sake. Many people nowadays work into their seventies and beyond. he's got plenty of vitality to last him through his first term. Whether he's looks for a second term or not depends on how well off we are after his first. We'll just have to wait and see. Posted by frankgrits at 08/29/2008 @ 3:31pm

The life expectancy for Americna men is early 70s

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 4:04pm
no,

mccain will live to be 90.

at least.

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 4:08pm
McCain has about a 10% chance in a normal, low stress, healthy situation to make it 75. He is 72 and would be entering the most stressful job in the world.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 4:09pm
"what if McCain dies in office..."

you mean he's still alive?

Posted by emile duBois at 08/29/2008 @ 4:10pm
Could someone remind me of what Obama said last night. The media is covering Palin, and I already forgot what the big O said. I think he said he was going to give me a Prius, but I want to know when I'm going to get it.

Posted by sntauri at 08/29/2008 @ 12:42pm

He basically said that most Americans have more in common than not. If we pulled our heads out of our asses maybe we can turn things around. OK, so maybe he put it in a more eloquent way, but pretty much the same thing.

Americans have short memories evidently. Remember what polarized this nation so much? When Bill Clinton won the first election against Bush senior and Ross Perot, fat boy commentator Rush Limbaugh got his start. His ranting got the right wing smear machine in high gear. Once they saw that this was somewhat successful, the GOP and right wing establishment started a 24/7 smear machine aimed at unseating Bill Clinton.

There were accusations of murder, bank fraud, you name it but nothing with substantial evidence. So, enter stage Ken Star. Impeachment proceedings of president Clinton because he lied about a bj. All because the spoiled right wingers couldn't have their way.

Next comes Rupert Murdoch. He figures, hey, I can make money trashing dems on television....faux commedy hour is created. Then Karl Rove's divide and conquers technique. Rove, Limbaugh, Fox New and of course Rupert Murdoch and Clear Channel are responsible for most of the polarization of the U.S.

The rich can stall bills by keeping congress in a permanent stalemate while quietly slipping in earmarks to benefit themselves. And most Americans are dumb enough to buy into it. The congress has been a god damned soap opera for 10 years mostly put on by the rethug party.

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/29/2008 @ 4:10pm
naw,

the man's mom is like 93.

imagine being the wife of an admiral.

that's stress.

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 4:11pm
back to some real news. a politician commands an audience of 80,000? you betcha.

Posted by emile duBois at 08/29/2008 @ 4:12pm
the Fundamentalists belive all words in the Bible carry exactly the same weight in importance. For ELCA Lutherans like myself, we believe some books are more relavent and important than others. So we basically ingore all the crazy shit in Leviticus. We focus on the important stuff, like Juses rising from the dead. Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008 @ 3:45pm | ignore this person | warn this person

So you have no problem with homosexuality?

How do you weigh the words? Do you include the weight of the papyrus?

Juses? Is that anything like Jeebus? Cuz Jeebus forsook Homer Simpson.

Is Palin a "real" Christian?

Posted by crabwalk at 08/29/2008 @ 4:13pm
Hello Wolfgang1,

You are the one who brought up Slick Willie, not me, in case somebody posts in questioning bringing him up in an unrelated "thread"

You said "Impeachment proceedings of president Clinton because he lied about a bj."

You seem to have forgotten that what started the whole thing was that Slick was sued by Paula Jones in civil court for sexual harassment, which one citizen can do against another in this country.

Once in court, the lying and obstruction began. It was only because the lying and obstruction were taking place that investigations took place and the Monica Lewinsky thing came to light, and with all they lying and obstruction and trying to have others perjure themselves that we wound up with impeachment.

So, I guess it was OK for Bill Clinton to?

1. Commit sexual harassment. 2. Lie in court.

Even though no other U.S. citizen but Bill Clinton has this privilige?

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 4:18pm
and not letting Europe decide American foreign policy...Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 4:03pm

Are you for real?! Who in the hell do you think has been deciding our foreign policy, besides Israel?

What concern of it to the U.S. is it if Iran attacks Israel? Are they attacking us? No Reverse the situation. Did Israel come to the aid of the U.S. in our Vietnam "police action"?

Then there's Euorpe. What countries have the most to lose over this Georgia business going on right now? The U.S. or the Europeans? Europe gets oil from Russia.

Good God man, the Europeans sent settlers here. Do you think they don't have ownership in the U.S. and buttloads of money invested and controlling the U.S. market, government and military?

What exactly does Great Britain produce? Why is the pound worth double what the dollar is. I would say that both parties are outright owned by lobbyists and a significant number behind those lobbyists are international entities, not American or definitely not American citizen interests. Who does Bush listen more to, AARP or AIPAC?

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/29/2008 @ 4:23pm
Us conservative are tingling like Chris Mathews getting a glimpse of Obama at the urinal. Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008 @ 4:09pm |

It's pandering to women AND his base. There are plenty of picks who would have cemented his base more. Huckabee for instance. This is obvious Darin. Don't try so hard to change the reality.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 4:24pm
Once in court, the lying and obstruction began. It was only because the lying and obstruction were taking place that investigations took place and the Monica Lewinsky thing came to light, and with all they lying and obstruction and trying to have others perjure themselves that we wound up with impeachment.

So, I guess it was OK for Bill Clinton to?

1. Commit sexual harassment. 2. Lie in court.

Even though no other U.S. citizen but Bill Clinton has this privilige?

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 4:18pm

How stupid are people. Let's see. Lewinsky blows Bill, never washes the dress and just happens to tell her friend Linda Tripp this on the phone in a conversation that Linda just happens to be recording. None of this sounds like a set up to you?

Clinton couldn't keep his pants on. The Paula Jones case was settled. Kenneth Starr was supposedly investigating the White Water scandal, not the Paula Jones nore the Linda Tripp incident. He just ended up there because he coudn't come up with anything on trumped up charges.

At least get your facts semi straight.

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/29/2008 @ 4:30pm
Zero, I agree about Brooks! He's quite a weasel and an Obama hater. He sure looked foolish doing his nitpicking dance with everyone else disagreeing with him! This Palin thing is the most pander-ful stuff I've EVER seen. The NOchoice anti-women people are sh#!tting their pants over her! The Reps. sure don't overestimate the gullibility of the American voter!

Posted by Amolibri at 08/29/2008 @ 4:31pm
2. Lie in court.

Even though no other U.S. citizen but Bill Clinton has this privilige?

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 4:18pm

At least Bill Clinton appeared in court. Karl Rove, Harriet Myers,Alberto Gonzales and on and on can break the laws, and not even have to show up when they've been subpoened.

Clinton probably wishes he had a time machine. If he would have used executive privelege like the Bush administration he couldn't have gotten off (in more than one way) without having to even testify.

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/29/2008 @ 4:35pm
So we basically ingore all the crazy shit in Leviticus.

Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008

and I was so looking forward to some slaves. Damn

To those defending McSame's age: remember that a term as POTUS ages one at least 10 years.

LRJ - you're the one who brought brought the sexism thing up...I just ran with it so you might wanna reconsider that first stone thing.

Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 4:38pm
couldn't have gotten ...

mistake again.. Should be could have gotten...

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/29/2008 @ 4:41pm
Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/29/2008 @ 4:27pm

Odd...you don't sound "2HAPPY" to me!

bwa-ha-ha-ha

Now `scuse me. Gotta go make sure the wimmen folks ain't took to wearin' shoes in the kitchen. Wonder who's turn it is to get pregnanat? Gotta be fruitful and multiply dontcha know (I'm out to offend right-wing femme-trolls AND fundyvangenuts.)

Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 4:50pm
Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 4:18pm

Please feel free to explain how an alleged act of sexual harrassment that happened when Bill Cinton was governor of Arkansas (three years prior to the filing of the court case) brought by lawyers funded by conservative backers and that was thrown out as having no merit - is an impeachable offense?

Or that the whole impeachment thing was a kangaroo court held by Republicans and basically broke along party lines?

Further, I find this concern for the "truth" quite interesting in a world where, if the President or his direct reports have someone to lie for them like Oliver North or Scooter Libby, then it is all kosher.

Notice the difference between Clinton and the two other examples? The other two are obvious abuses of executive authority and should have warranted impeachment but because they had someone lie for them - and no doubt offered them compensation in return - they could plausibly deny a connection. In other words, his only mistake was not paying her off sooner - given the standard practices of the times.

Posted by srjenkins at 08/29/2008 @ 4:55pm
YOU raise the prospect of death-in-office, YOU will just remind everybody of Magic's own vulnerabilities!

Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/29/2008 @ 4:49pm

Happy, Is this some sort of idle threat? You think it's cute that Kennedy was killed in office? You think it's cute or funny that we have redneck dipshits in this country who would kill a guy running for president because he's a black guy?

If you do, you are a major league asshole.

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/29/2008 @ 4:55pm
Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/29/2008 @ 4:49pm

Uh your 13% figure is BS. You have to count ALL Presidents not just the last few. I can make up percentages for ANYTHING if I just fudge the numbers like that.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 4:57pm
In the last 100 years there has been 1 Presidential assassination. That's 17 Presidents. That puts his chances at much better than your 13%. See how fake numbers work?

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 5:05pm
of course he would.

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 5:05pm
Please feel free to explain how an alleged act of sexual harrassment that happened when Bill Cinton was governor of Arkansas (three years prior to the filing of the court case) brought by lawyers funded by conservative backers and that was thrown out as having no merit - is an impeachable offense?

Posted by srjenkins at 08/29/2008 @ 4:55pm

SRJ, I didn't say that the GOP or right wingers were behind the Paula Jones ordeal. I said that Ken Star was not investigating that. He was investigating the White Water Scandal.

As far as the Lewinsky thing, hell yes I think it was a set up.

Now please feel free to tell me how politicizing the justice department falls under executive privelege? Is national security at stake here? Does the department of justice work at the pleasure of the president? (Yes in this case, but the real answer is no, it's not supposed to) That's why no charges have been brought forward on any of this. The Bush administration has meticulously put key people in positions to protect their asses at every turn.

The ones who do come out of the administration with a sense of guilt are steamrolled by the right wing smear machine.

Posted by Wolfgang1 at 08/29/2008 @ 5:06pm
Oh yeah, that's not going to piss women off. Any male governor wouldn't be dismissed so easily. Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008 @ 4:58pm

That's a BS argument and nothing more than bait. You don't KNOW that so you are saying it because it can't be proven or disproven.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 5:15pm
This is good news for republicans. Posted by frankgrits at 08/29/2008 @ 5:21pm

Nah. Because that outrages also includes the women McCain is reaching out to.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 5:27pm
this is all so stupid.

america is losing lives and piling on the debt in two wars,

the dollar is uncomfortable toilet paper,

greenland is about to fall into the north atlantic,

russia is about to control world gas supplies,

china is about to buy up america, and millions of americans have no job.

AND WE TALK ABOUT BATHING SUITS AND BLACKNESS.

wtf?

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 5:39pm
So Comfy, saying he as a 12% chance of surviving is completely wrong. It is an 86% or 94% chance, based on his last physicial.

Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008

good thing he's not black or HAPPY would want him dead much sooner.

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 5:46pm
well,

looks like viceroy harper is going to call an election for october 14th.

wow,

imagine that,

a 6 week campaign,

that's publicly financed ('cept for president harper's illegal dealings, of course).

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 5:50pm
People are sufficiently preoccupied with the state of the U.S. economy and the U.S. financial system (see: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) that it's easier to ignore, for the moment, the busted balance sheet of the U.S. government. Plus, there are few votes to be had for a politician who runs on a platform of financial pain. But raising taxes – a lot – and cutting benefits may be just what the next U.S. president, whether it's Mr. Obama or John McCain, will have to do, whether he wants to or not. Investors, take note.

Prof. Kotlikoff, a Harvard PhD, has given advice to the governments or central banks in Norway, Sweden, New Zealand, China, Italy and Japan, among other places, and is surprised that the day of reckoning has not already come. Of the many blunders of Bush the Second, among the most appalling is the fiscal irresponsibility of a so-called conservative President. Prof. Kotlikoff calculates the American "fiscal gap" has grown to $70-trillion (U.S.), and estimates that the current President is responsible for one-quarter of that amount. Nice legacy.

But what does the number even mean? Seventy trillion dollars is an impossible sum to fathom, which may be another reason the issue gets little political air time. Big, chronic problems aren't sexy. And this one is big. To earn $70-trillion in profit, you'd need 1,723 companies the size of ExxonMobil; $70-trillion would be equal to the annual sales at 1.35 million Wal-Mart stores. That's not the size of the U.S. government's debt, though. It's the shortfall between its projected future revenues and what it plans to spend (in today's dollars).

BATHING SUITS! HA!

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 5:58pm
pundits noted that Hillary did not come out with derogatory remarks about Palin as several other Dems like Pelosi and Boxer had today. Posted by lvliberty1 at 08/29/2008 @ 5:58pm

I knew that would happen. I think everyone should have known that would happen.

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 6:04pm
"The economy was going into a downturn when Clinton left the presidency."

After one of the longest booms in history. Just compare the GDP growth during the Bush, Jr. administration to that during the Clinton administration. Not even close.

"He treated terror as a criminal matter, thus setting the stage for worse after he left office. He, and Jimmy Carter, weakened the military during their time in office."

Actually, he caught the terrorists who did WTCI. Bush still hasn't caught bin-Laden or Zawahiri. Further, Bush pretty much ignored the terrorism issue until 9/11.

It is during the Bush administration that the armed forces have had to lower their recruitment standards, not rotate troops through training cycles and not properly maintain equipment.

"If Obama were president, he would go to the U.N., we would engage in peace and dialog and negotiation and discussion and do what Europe would want us to do, and thus we would have been in a weaker position, and the cause of our enemies advanced."

As usual,you're making stuff up as you go along.

Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 6:13pm
Argument "Reset"

There have been posts above regarding the chances of either candidate dying in office. Below is an example:

=========================

So Comfy, saying he as a 12% chance of surviving is completely wrong. It is an 86% or 94% chance, based on his last physicial.

Posted by Darin_the_Troll at 08/29/2008

good thing he's not black or HAPPY would want him dead much sooner.

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 5:46pm

=========================

First, regarding Barack Obama. He is 48 years old, and I have heard no indications of any health problems.

However, Tim Russert was still fairly young (58) and all of a sudden he is gone. So who knows?

But it doesn't matter what his statistical chances of making it through a term are - he is not going to be elected President.

As far as President-elect John McCain, Cccomfo1 says his statistical chances are 12% of surviving for a whole term, and Darin_the_Troll says it is 86% or 94%.

However, as I indicated above, it is 0%.

I am not a Psychic or a "fortune teller" or whatever, but my vibes tell me this. I got them last week, I do not know why.

I will admit I am partly wrong, however. My vibes told me it would be Joe Lieberman taking over.

I guess I figured John McCain was going to do what he would do, regardless if it would anger the conservative base.

But John McCain apparently likes to keep everybody guessing and show he is not predictible, so his replacement as President will be Sarah Palin.

And everybody, relax. When that happens, the country will be just fine.

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 6:38pm
Brunowe, cmon:

You said above, quoting me partly " He treated terror as a criminal matter, thus setting the stage for worse after he left office. He, and Jimmy Carter, weakened the military during their time in office. Actually, he caught the terrorists who did WTCI "

I know he caught the first World Trade Center terrorists. I told you that above, as you quoted me. And he TRIED THEM IN COURT! Like I said.

Why didn't he go to war against them, kill them if necessary, and then go to war and kill if necessary their ideological soulmates, such as al-Qaeda.

How did trying a few terrorists in court stop other terrorists of like mind?

Answer is, it didn't - and on August 3, 2008 I stood across the street from where there is nothing because of this, but used to be 2 buildings until 7 years ago.

When somebody goes to war against you, as terrorists did against us, you don't haul them into court. You fight back and defeat them, even if it means killing them.

How many times do we have to go through this?

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 6:46pm
Brunowe,

Actually, this back and forth between you and me on terrorists doesn't matter, because now that the election for 2008 has been decided, the policies you advocate will not be implemented in the near term, either by President McCain or President Palin.

So I guess I need to follow my own advice and relax, because your opinion is moot regarding this.

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 6:48pm
How many times do we have to go through this?

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 6:46pm

as many times as blind people like you elect people willing to blind.

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 6:49pm
here, sjchermak, a present:

SHANGHAI, China -- China and Iraq have signed a $3 billion deal revising an earlier agreement for China's biggest oil company to help develop the Ahdab oil field, an official at the Iraq's Oil Ministry said today.

4000 dead americans for china's oil!

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 6:56pm
Folks paying attention, MOST especially moderate & conservative women, know that with a McCain win, the chances for Palin to become the first female POTUS, is enormous! And, this is as it should be in an idealized chronology.....the first Female POTUS before a black POTUS (preferably a true 100% American black w/no question of legitimacy of birth being raised by some Demos who backed Clinton). Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/29/2008 @ 6:28pm

What!?

What the hell are you even talking about anymore Happy?

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 6:58pm
Why should it be a woman before a black man? What is your logic for that "idealized" chronology?

Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/29/2008 @ 7:00pm
Hello Frosty Zoom,

You said "here, sjchermak, a present: ......"

If we are talking about presents, and China, how about the present Bill Clinton gave China when he allowed Loral Space, (whose CEO was a financial supporter of his) to sell missile technology (otherwise prohibited without the presidential waiver) to the Chinese that gave Chinese missles the capablity to reach the U.S. West Coast with nuclear warheads, which they couldn't before?

How about that?

Somebody in these blogs said you were Canadian- don't forget the Chinese missles could reach Vancouver, too, thanks to Bill Clinton and his buddy Bernie Schwartz at Loral.

How about that, eh?

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 7:20pm
sjchermak,

do you own anything made in china?

listen,

you are the one who wanted to attack iraq. now you are bearing the "fruits" of your greed.

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 7:22pm
And hello again Frosty Zoom,

You also inferred I was blind.

Don't discount the capabilities of blind people, especially blind politicians.

The new governor of New York, David Patterson, IS blind, and he has taken on the special interests and is taking action on the budget and the necessary budget cuts in a way that no New York politician, Democrat or Republican, has dared to do before!

Blind sounds pretty good to me!

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 7:24pm
and honestly,

i'm much more worried about viceroy harper et al. selling out my country to the u.s. (and china and others) than chinese missiles.

por favor.

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 7:24pm
but those blind to their being manipulated are very dangerous.

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 7:25pm
i think a penguin should be first!

Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 7:26pm
Easy .. 2Hap is a racist.

Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 7:31pm
Frosty Zoom,

How was it greed to stop Saddam from:

1. running people through shredding machines, operating rape rooms, indiscriminate killing whenever the mood suited him, etc.

2. creating havoc in the middle east,

3. starting up his WMD programs again when he would have had the opportunity

4. eventually selling or giving the WMD to terror organizations.

5. sitting back in delight as terrorists did his dirty work for him and killed maybe millions with WMD.

???

Where does greed come in?

Yes, China is getting too powerful and too influential, but your grasping to say that we shouldn't have gone into Iraq because of the possiblity Chinese may get involved in oil after Saddam.

The world is complicated and can't be distilled into one equation. If China is too powerful we have to deal with that but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have gone into Iraq.

If the left, Europe (except Tony Blair), etc had their way and Saddam were still in power, then maybe China wouldn't have made the deal you referred to above, but they would be a thorn in our side anyway in a lot of other places. And besides, who is to say that China wouldn't have made a deal with Saddam for oil anyway?

I must be missing something, where does my "greed" enter into things here?

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 7:32pm
Quote:

"And, this is as it should be in an idealized chronology.....the first Female POTUS before a black POTUS (preferably a true 100% American black w/no question of legitimacy of birth being raised by some Demos who backed Clinton)". Posted by 2HAPPY at 08/29/2008 @ 6:28pm

You must think women are as dumb and incabable of logical thinking as McCain and his strategists who pushed Palin think we are. This choice was a clear pander, and worse, an insult--as was your comment.

The "proper chronology"??? What? WHAT? Preferably a true 100% black [..]"??!!

Go crawl back under your rock.

***********

And BTW, Nichols--this was a really pallid commentary about McCain's out of far-Rightfield choice.

Posted by planedon at 08/29/2008 @ 7:35pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 08/29/2008 @ 5:39pm

thanks for the reality check FZ

Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 7:32pm

because we went into Iraq to nation-make a US friendly oil-producer?

Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 7:40pm
http://tinyurl.com/6yd5qr

Posted by leftofcenter at 08/29/2008 @ 9:23pm
Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 7:32pm

Notice some of your reasons for backing the regime change in Iraq. I'm one of those who still backs the moral validity of the Iraq invasion on the basis of the human rights violations of the former autocratic regime.

The removal of Saddam Hussein from power has been official American policy since 1998 and though Bush may have taken that policy a little more literally than many of those who signed off on it in the end he had overwhelming cross party support for March 2003.

As you are probably aware Iraq, however much it was thankful for US military support in giving it a new start and a chance at a more democratic system of government, was never going to let the US or any other country for that matter control its oil resource. So the claim that the Iraq war was about the US getting its hands on the levers of Iraq oil just doesn't stack up.

Iraq now needs all the expertise it can get to develop that resource which fell into disrepair during Saddam's rule. That is behind Iraq's drive to get help not only from US, Russia (Lukoil), and European oil companies but also China's premier oilfield development company, CNPC. Iraq's present production is 2.5 million bpd. It aims to up it to 4 million bpd by 2010 when Ahdad comes on line and 6 million bpd after 2012.

I don't think we need to get paranoid about China and its voracious appetite for resources. It is not that it wants, militarily, to dominate the world but that it wants to bring its 1.3 billion citizens up to the standard of the West through rapid and massive industrialisation.

The only group of people who should be alarmed are the anthropogenic climate change true believers. That is another story but in the context of this thread that doesn't include Sarah Palin.

Posted by lrjones4 at 08/29/2008 @ 9:52pm
"I know he caught the first World Trade Center terrorists. I told you that above, as you quoted me. And he TRIED THEM IN COURT! Like I said."\

Meaning that they were all locked up. How exactly would shooting them outright have been an improvement. We see that Gitmo has been a terrorist recruiter's dream. Clinton did devote resources to trying to assassinate bin-Laden. Again, Bush ignored the problem until the Towers went down.

"Answer is, it didn't - and on August 3, 2008 I stood across the street from where there is nothing because of this, but used to be 2 buildings until 7 years ago."

I live in that city, and there is nothing there because Bush ignored the problem.

Incidentally, Clinton's DoJ did sucessfully break up the support network that Ramzi bin-Yusuf used.

"When somebody goes to war against you, as terrorists did against us, you don't haul them into court. "

Right, because I'm sure that you and others were calling for going into Afghanistan in force after the embassy bombings. The point is that you and your neo-con ilk were more concerned about a blow-job in the White House than about the security of this country.

"because now that the election for 2008 has been decided, "

Sure it has...

Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 10:16pm
"The removal of Saddam Hussein from power has been official American policy since 1998 and though Bush may have taken that policy a little more literally than many of those who signed off on it in the end he had overwhelming cross party support for March 2003."

A one-shot outlay of $75 million (chump change by DC standards) doesn't make a full-on invasion and occupation official policy. You also seem to forget that the Bush administration got its support through chronic misrepresentation of the evidence.

"As you are probably aware Iraq, however much it was thankful for US military support in giving it a new start and a chance at a more democratic system of government, was never going to let the US or any other country for that matter control its oil resource."

We are aware of nothing of the kind. Or do the no-bid contracts that Exxon Mobil, Shell, Total and BP not count.

"The only group of people who should be alarmed are the anthropogenic climate change true believers."

Ah, that overwhelming majority of the scientific community.

Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 10:25pm
B,

As I remember you had a bit of a problem with understanding the import of the 1998 ILA.

Using the same faulty intellectual approach to the Oct 2002 NIE you obviously have also had problems with the plain English of your incompetent intelligence agencies, of that time, who drafted that estimate. In the usual modus operandi of the conspiracy theorist you find one or two inconsistencies or inter-department disagreements to hang your tenuous arguments from.

I'm not too sure what the average IQ or educational standard of your Congress was in October 2002 through March 2003 but unlike you, most all of them decided that it would be a pretty good idea to remove the then current Iraq regime. Now perhaps like you they also knew that the intelligence was a lot of old codswallop but the funny thing is they told no one that at the time and even made more belligerent war mongering or war urging speeches than the fiend from hell himself. And then went ahead and voted to give Saddam the boot.

On top of that B, they (Congress's broad cross party membership) were and are telling us what they think of your theories by the fact Congress continued to up the Act's original $75 million to the many billions as of today to get the job done. So I think your own democratically elected Congress has sort of put paid to your assessment of the available intelligence.

No need to act like a jilted lover and you better get used to this sort of expense, for as I read it young Obama under the influence of old Biden is likely to get your mob into his preferred war in Afghanistan/Pakistan where real WMD do exist.

That as you should know would make Iraq seem like a Sunday school picnic and about as cheap.

My guess is that McCain is all bark and no bite and thus a lot safer on this one.

Posted by lrjones4 at 08/29/2008 @ 11:31pm
We are aware of nothing of the kind. Or do the no-bid contracts that Exxon Mobil, Shell, Total and BP not count.

"The only group of people who should be alarmed are the anthropogenic climate change true believers."

Ah, that overwhelming majority of the scientific community.

Posted by brunowe at 08/29/2008 @ 10:25pm

The point B, is not so much that many of the Iraq short term oil contracts were not let out to tender, which has potential for corruption but rather that Iraq's oil resource is at least quasi nationalised and no one country, the US included, has a chance of getting its hands on the oil control levers or to put it another way, getting Iraqi hands off those levers they are clinging on to for dear life.

In effect they are saying piss off lads unless you can help us and we will pay you what we think you are worth (they've been trimming the quotes) but this is our oil.

The scientists:? Well that's another story. Some of you are trapped in a no man's land between the two oceans which probably accounts for the idea you seem to have that the scientists will have any impact on the mitigation of GHG emissions. You need to get out and about in the world. She's a changing.

Google up on say India's National Plan On Climate Change 30 June 2008 and see where it ranks climate change against industrialisation in its official government statements. Then have a look at what China is doing and intends to do in terms of industrialisation. I think it shouldn't take you too long to discover that both countries rely on their own scientists and planners to map out their country's future for the next century and that your sort of scientist is irrelevant to them. China still has a long way to go on that path and its GHG emissions are already greater than those of the US.

Posted by lrjones4 at 08/30/2008 @ 12:47am
B,

As I remember you had a bit of a problem with understanding the import of the 1998 ILA."

Actually, you're the one with the problem understanding the difference between a one-shot grant to exiles that explicitly disavowed any military activity and a full-scale invasion/occupation.

"but unlike you, most all of them decided that it would be a pretty good idea to remove the then current Iraq regime. Now perhaps like you they also knew that the intelligence was a lot of old codswallop but the funny thing is they told no one that at the time and even made more belligerent war mongering or war urging speeches than the fiend from hell himself."

No one knew, at the time, that the Bush administration was fixing the intelligence. Their thought that removing Saddam would be a good idea was based on deceptions such as Powell's speech.

"continued to up the Act's original $75 million to the many billions as of today to get the job done."

No, they did a totally separate series of appropriations five years after the fact.

Posted by brunowe at 08/30/2008 @ 01:40am
No one knew, at the time, that the Bush administration was fixing the intelligence. Their thought that removing Saddam would be a good idea was based on deceptions such as Powell's speech.

"continued to up the Act's original $75 million to the many billions as of today to get the job done." No, they did a totally separate series of appropriations five years after the fact.

Posted by brunowe at 08/30/2008 @ 01:40am

Perhaps you have been repeating this unsustainable claim that the Bush Administration fixed the pre March 2003 intelligence for so long that you fail to see how ludicrous your claim is in light of what it says about the majority of Congress. B and a raggle taggle bunch of "experts", some of whom on investigation couldn't lie straight in bed, suddenly wise up after the fact that no WMD were found in Iraq that the Admin must have rigged the intelligence because why else could all the foreign policy experts in the various committees such as Biden get it so horribly wrong?

Give us a break B, were all those members of foreign policy committees, who surely had to be experienced in analysing intelligence documents, not up to twigging, by reference to all contrary sources that the intelligence was rigged? That's enough to stretch the imagination of all but the most credulous.

To my mind your imagined reality borders on delusions of grandeur.

We have been through this before but you, given your claims about the "rigged" intelligence, must be at a total loss to understand why Congress should not have been able to smell a rat with respect to such intelligence, and how most even out did Bush in their war making fervour.

There should be little doubt that the influence of the 1998 ILA was the pre-determining factor for many in Congress who supported the war.

Posted by lrjones4 at 08/30/2008 @ 02:40am
12 years of a congressional new con repub majority does a lot to diminish intelligence and literally pervert our constitution especially when bent over accepting a dic'tatorship and gestapo DoJ.

Posted by hsuBfools at 08/30/2008 @ 03:01am
" Their thought that removing Saddam would be a good idea was based on deceptions such as Powell's speech. "

The claim is not that the 1998 ILA is a detailed plan or blueprint for the 2003 war. It obviously had some reference to supporting opposition parties in Iraq.

However what it did make official is that the official policy of the US was thereby the removal of Saddam Hussein and his regime based partly on his gross HR violations against his own people.

A perusal of the act indicates how formative this document was in the Congress's bias against the Saddam regime. There can be little doubt that it is a statement of intentions already held but formalising it in that way gave it the didactic dimension that legislation invariably carries.

Then despite your protestations to the contrary here is how your Congress used the 1998 ILA in its authorisation of the war. This part is not about WMD (though other parts are) and it shows that your insistence that "rigged" intelligence was the "real" reason Congress gave its authorisation is not so:

PUBLIC LAW 107–243--OCT. 16, 2002 Iraq Resolution (Public Law 102–1),

...that Iraq's repression of its civilian population violates United Nations Security Council Resolution 688 and ‘‘constitutes a continuing threat to the peace, security, and stability of the Persian Gulf region,'' and that Congress, ‘‘supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals of United Nations Security Council Resolution 688'';

Whereas the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Public Law 105–338) expressed the sense of Congress that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove from power the current Iraqi regime and promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime;.......

Posted by lrjones4 at 08/30/2008 @ 04:10am
"SEC. 8. RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.

Nothing in this Act shall be construed to authorize or otherwise speak to the use of United States Armed Forces (except as provided in section 4(a)(2)) in carrying out this Act."

In short, the use of military force didn't become official policy until the hyped-up WMD "threat" The neo-cons weren't arguing human rights or the ILA, they were arguing WMD.

The existence of the ILA wasn't the crux of the debate, Iraq's ostensible WMD's and links to al-Qaida were. This is shown in that the one reference to the ILA was swamped by references to them. You have nine "Whereas" clauses covering WMD to one mention of the ILA.

Posted by brunowe at 08/30/2008 @ 06:51am
Fact:

No wmd's were found in Iraq.

You scared neo-cons can whoop and holler all you want. Chimpy either lied or was wrong.

Great Leader you got there. Great VP pick during a generational war you got there.

but hey, the American Taliban are happy with the pick, that is all that matters.

You guys are a frickin hoot. I have never seen so many people change their tunes so fast. Even Kerry could not flop that fast. How's the Kool-aid? Cold enough for you? Do you want more sugar coating with it?

Much like your ever changing justification to go into a 15 year war, your ever changing criteria for candidates leaves much to be desired.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/30/2008 @ 07:27am
10 months ago con-talk:

MCcain is too liberal, he will never get through the primaries

Now- McCain is our man.

2 months ago con-talk:

Obama does not have the experience needed to run a country.

Now- Palin has experience.

So, the cons are going to go out and hold water for one of the more lib-rool senators running with someone that 19 months ago was the mayor of a town with 5,000 souls. But they love her, because she prays to the right Imaginary Friend.

----

SJ---

BOO!

Posted by crabwalk at 08/30/2008 @ 07:33am
ahhh, I remember a time when "no religious test..."

the fantasy of the Good 'ol Days, back when the cons feared Catholics, before they feared Muslims or black men with funny names. Well, they have pretty much always feared black men. Now they just live in fear. Fear of Europe, fear of The Other.

Boooogey wooooogeeeyy!!!!!

I am sure Palins god will stand behind her as she stares down the Dear Leader of N. Korea, Adidhiminthejohn and the next Saddam Hussein that is created as a bulwark against Islamofascism and then turns to bite the feeding hand.

Posted by crabwalk at 08/30/2008 @ 07:38am
Posted by brunowe at 08/30/2008 @ 06:51am

B,

This is how the ILA begins and most people would accept that this summary is telling us what the Act is all about. Here it is and surely the intent is obvious:

SUMMARY:

(REVISED AS OF 10/05/98 -- Passed House, amended)

Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 - Declares that it should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and to replace it with a democratic government.

That B, is the intent of the Act and the later authorisation, by Congress, for the implementation of that policy (October 16, 2002 Iraq Resolution) uses the stark policy statement of The Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 as the basis for its resolution.

It is nonsense to say it is not about HR otherwise, without delving into the Act where some of Saddam's HR violations are listed, what is the significance of the words "replace it with a democratic government", surely nothing less than an implicit summary of the evidence mounted against him in Section 2. Para 4 in this summary reads as below:

"Urges the President to call upon the United Nations to establish an international criminal tribunal for the purpose of indicting, prosecuting, and imprisoning Saddam Hussein and other Iraqi officials who are responsible for crimes against humanity, genocide, and other criminal violations of international law."

So the 1998 ILA, contrary to your assertion, is shot through with references to Saddam's HR abuses.

Now whatever restrictions were placed upon the use of force in Section 4 of this document it is disingenuous to claim that this Act (ILA of 1998) is not what undergirds the war resolution of October 16, 2002.

This analysis is confirmed by Bush's address at the UN on 12 Sep 2002 in which HR are paramount.

Posted by lrjones4 at 08/30/2008 @ 09:24am
It isn't disingenuous at all. It is simply obtuse to assert that the main thrust wasn't Hussein's ostensible WMDs.

It is also incorrect to state that HR issue were paramount in Bush's speech to the General Assembly.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/ news/releases/2002/09/20020912-1.html

Both this speech and the authorization to attack Iraq mention WMDs much more often than Hussein's human rights abuses.

Posted by brunowe at 08/30/2008 @ 09:34am
We can mince words all day about WMDs (or lack thereof)or pretend the US cared about the Iraqi people OR we can cop to the real reason we all know is true deep down inside. OIL

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0110-01.htm

and from the AP

"Vice President Dick Cheney's energy task force appeared to have some interest in early 2001 in Iraq's oil industry, including which foreign companies were pursuing business there, according to documents released Friday by a private watchdog group.

Judicial Watch, a conservative legal group, obtained a batch of task force-related Commerce Department papers that included a detailed map of Iraq's oil fields, terminals and pipelines as well as a list entitled "Foreign Suitors of Iraqi Oilfield Contracts." "

Posted by leftofcenter at 08/30/2008 @ 10:45am
McCain's choice is so cliche it borderlines being ridiculous. Most women that would vote for Hillary will not vote for Sarah Palin, being a woman just won't do. She stands for everything that Hillary does not. 20 or pehaps a million years of steady relationship with her highschool sweetheart, working mother of five, PTA mom, mayor, and boy oh boy, she even has a son in Iraq! Who cares about her experience with foreign policy? Did Bush have any ? And look where we are at! Isn't that great?I feel all warm and fuzzy inside! Let me tell you, if any democrat was unsure about Obama, now they are really voting Obama. If any moderate intelligent Republican was unsure about Mccain, now they are really voting Obama. Now, for the super conservatives who love war , hunting, guns,oil, but want to save the lives of unborn fetuses and they think they are the only patriots left in the face of the earth...McCain is their choice.

Posted by urubu at 08/30/2008 @ 1:53pm
Posted by sjchermak at 08/29/2008 @ 4:03pm

"I will vote for McCain-Palin, and not Obama-Biden (Democrats) because I believe in a strong national defense and not letting Europe decide American foreign policy,"

Right. That's Israel's job.

".. and because I believe in getting government off of people's backs so that we can have growth and opportunity in this country so people can succeed."

Absolutely. Unless, of course, they are gay, black or against the status quo. or a woman. In spite of her association with euphemistically named "feminists for life", she is one sorry ass excuse for a feminist.

".. And I believe in fixing the schools by stopping the liberal influence in how kids are educated, which has resulted in some dumbed-down kids in recent years (at best) and at worst many kids denied a decent eduation,"

"eduation"? Nevermind. Not important. What is important is that creationism and homophobia are parts of the curriculum. That'll help move us forward.

"...which is supposed to be the great equalizer in American society."

Equalizer?!? Yer not some kind of commie, are you?

"I have not been raising the experience issue here, and only commented on it a little bit and on the fact that by the time Gov. Palin has to assume the Presidency she will have experience. The paragraph above reflects why I will be voting the way I do."

So anybody would do just fine after "12 months" of on the job training? A solid geographical background and a strong grasp of both history and currnet affairs is easily obtained in one whole year. Right?

"(although McCain would not have been my first choice to do the government getting off of people's backs part..."

Who would? Huckabee/Coulter?

Posted by Malcontent at 08/30/2008 @ 7:58pm
current*

Posted by Malcontent at 08/30/2008 @ 8:00pm

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McCain Picks Sarah Palin for Vice President

posted by John Nichols on 08/29/2008 @ 08:56am

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McCain Picks Sarah Palin for Vice President

posted by John Nichols on 08/29/2008 @ 08:56am

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About the Authors

Ari Melber (Posts | Bio)

Ari Berman (Posts | Bio)

Christopher Hayes (Posts | Bio)

Cora Currier (Posts | Bio)

John Nichols (Posts | Bio)

Katrina vanden Heuvel (Posts | Bio)

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