O'Biden: Nader Hits the "MasterCard VP" Choice

Barack Obama's supporters are saying that that Joe Biden is the perfect pick for vice president.

John McCain's supporters are saying that Biden was right when he said Obama was not ready for the job.

Who to believe? How about Ralph Nader.

The veteran consumer activist and frequent presidential candidate -- this year bidding as an independent -- offers a frank assessment that notes Biden's strengths but also explains why the senator from Delaware does not exactly represent "change we can believe in."

Here is Nader's take:

In naming the MasterCard Senator and pro-war Joe Biden to be his Vice Presidential nominee, Senator Obama has chosen a running mate whose biting primary season criticisms of Obama will be used by McCain.

While Biden has shown backbone by supporting the Violence Against Women Act of 1994, habeas corpus for Guantanamo prisoners and voting for the McCain-Feingold overhaul of campaign finance, it is difficult to see what Biden brings to the Obama campaign other than the possibility of being a rhetorically populist attack man against the McCain campaign.

Biden will have a tough time when people find out that as MBNA's man in the Senate--MBNA has been his biggest financial backer, after contributing $214,000 over his career--he was the long-time champion and key architect of, in the words of Chair of the Senate Banking Committee, Senator Chris Dodd, "one of the "worst bills ever," the anti-consumer bankruptcy law, which helped pave the way for the present foreclosure crisis by shifting the risk for engaging in predatory lending practices from predatory lenders to hapless borrowers.

I doubt that the millions of Americans being pushed out of their homes and squeezed on interest rate payments will want to vote for a ticket with Biden's name on it when he was the one who worked through two presidential administrations to ram this legislation through, first with President Clinton who had the good sense to veto it, and then President Bush who had the moral bankruptcy to sign it.

The chief knock on Obama, besides his numerous flip-flops on matters of civil liberties, the war and justice, has been his lack of experience. That Obama ultimately picked the one person who most bluntly criticized his experience and readiness for the Presidency suggests that one of the reasons the Illinois Senator picked Biden was for his foreign policy experience. Does that include his Iraq war support? Does that include his support for the militaristic repression of Palestinians and their homeland instead of supporting the Israeli and Palestinian peace movements for a majority backed two-state solution?

Biden is highly regressive on criminal justice issues. He was the architect of the modern drug war (i.e., the Anti-Drug Abuse of 1986), including mandatory minimum sentencing that can be credited with the world record U.S. prison population. On foreign policy, Biden is a hawk who supported the use of military force in Iraq and has voted for every funding bill, put forward by Bush-Cheney

By picking Biden, arguably the most powerful pro-war Democratic Senator, to fill his foreign policy experience vacuum, Obama has squandered his biggest perceived image distinction with McCain, and can no longer ride the coattails of the anti-war movement and the majority of Americans who oppose Bush and Cheney's illegal foreign wars.

Biden, who voted for reauthorizing the PATRIOT Act along with Obama, will not help much with the millions of independent voters who care about the Constitution. Hillary Clinton who after voting, like Biden, for this bill the first time in 2001, decided to vote against the reauthorization of the notoriously misnamed PATRIOT Act.

Coming from Delaware, Senator Biden knows full well the weak Delaware State chartering for large corporations that have, for 100 years, chosen Delaware as a most permissive jurisdiction for the concentrated powers of corporate officers and directors over all the corporate stakeholders, including shareholders and workers. We look forward to his broader responsibility as a vice presidential candidate to see whether it will include support for the long overdue federal chartering of large corporations endorsed by Presidents Teddy Roosevelt and William Taft.

Comments (44)

1. Ralph Nader gave us George Bush because he couldn't see a diffference between Bush and Gore. That error in judgement pretty much ended any interest I might have in Mr. Nader's opinions. Pity, he once was a hero of mine.

   Posted by Pogge at 08/23/2008 @ 8:04pm

2. Happiness is relative and relative to McCain Joe Biden would make me happy.

   Posted by Pogge at 08/23/2008 @ 8:14pm

3. Oh great. Nader comes out again to have his public jerk sess. The day Nader becomes viable then maybe his opinions will matter. Until then he looks like a child who wants attention.

   Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/23/2008 @ 8:18pm

4. Got forbid, if something happens to Obama after being elected, will progressives be happy with Joe Biden as their President? Posted by frankgrits at 08/23/2008 @ 8:05pm

   Would progressives want McCain as their President? Your question is worthless because Biden is better than the alternative.

   Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/23/2008 @ 8:19pm

5. Wooowww. $250,000 over 30 years? Thats 8,333.33 cents a year. Amazing. I wonder how much McCain got from defense contractors? I wonder how much Nader gets from gullible progressives.

   Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/23/2008 @ 8:21pm

6. Ralph is depressingly right as usual. But I'm still voting for Obama/Biden. We can't afford to elect John McCain.

   Sad that Nader's anti-corporate politics don't ever seem to get anywhere in this country. But we have a congress bought by big business. How can we change that by voting for no hopers like Kucinich and Nader himself.

   Now, I wish Nader would please take some time to trash the Republicans, just as he has trashed the Democrats. They are just as bad if not worse in terms of their corporate affiliations and ideologies. At least the Dems aren't constantly hammering on about privatization and the magic of tax cuts.

   Posted by kkuchenb at 08/23/2008 @ 8:24pm

7. When Ralph Nader proves he's an absolute political saint (oh yeah he's never held an elected office, my bad!) then he can feel the need to rip on those who have more political success than him. Honestly, I wish he would just be a social critic instead of being a progressive's wet dream Presidential candidate. After all, how does HE expect to work with a Congress he only knows from sitting in committee chair meetings?

   Posted by yutsano at 08/23/2008 @ 8:29pm

8. Didn't Nader the Prognosticator...

   say it was going to be Hillary????

   and kkuchenb is right. Ralph spends more time trashing Dems and I think I know why.

   If McCain is elected, Ralph gets to say "See? Obama was a Repub-lite, you need to run a REAL progressive, Dems!" (though no viable Dem would EVER meet Ralph's standard). And he gets to come back in 2012 with another ego-trip.

   If Obama wins, the tiny remaining protons and neutrons of Nader's RELEVANCY are gone for good.

   Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 8:30pm

9. Posted by frankgrits at 08/23/2008 @ 8:05pm

   As the campaign wears on, and especially if Obama is elected, look for more and more FRANK posts on "God forbid, but if 'something' should happen to Obama...."

   and know, folks, EXACTLY what his thinking there is. And it ISN'T worry about "progressives be(ing) happy with Joe Biden as their President"!

   Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 8:32pm

10. I agree and that is why, when Obama and Biden get in the white house, we have to stay on them and stay on our congress.

    Posted by askkeynes at 08/23/2008 @ 8:44pm

11. Little Ralph Nader, just back from the trader

    Missed his Clintonian Ruse

    He stuck in his fork

    And pulled out some pork

    Saying read my 'objective' reviews...

    Posted by ttr at 08/23/2008 @ 9:10pm

12. by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 8:32pm...

    F'grits' went to the Karl Rove school of "Honest Intentions"... and lettered in 'soccer mom scare tactics'... which if we let him have his way... will become an Olympic level sporting event.

    ;^)

    Posted by ttr at 08/23/2008 @ 9:19pm

13. Posted by ttr at 08/23/2008 @ 9:19pm

    Well, we ALL know FG's true motive....McCain in '08, so Hillary his Dark Goddess, can have her "rightful" last shot at it in 2012.

    Nothing more, nothing less.

    BTW, wouldn't it be funny if Hillary is more patriotic, more gracious and more accepting of her loss than some of her nutso cultists and if she ever met FRANK, she'd tell him to "knock if off and help get Obama elected."

    And no doubt FRANK would say "She's just being nice, she doesn't mean it. She is the Chosen One!"

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 9:27pm

14. Alas and alack... if only Bill was the still "the decider"...

    ...then we too would be facsimillated...;^)

    Posted by ttr at 08/23/2008 @ 9:34pm

15. "If Obama wins, the tiny remaining protons and neutrons of Nader's RELEVANCY are gone for good."

    He does not care about relevancy as much as citizenship and living up to the ideals of this country. If that makes one irrelevant in another's eyes, so be it. You still fight. I voted for Nader in 2000, not living in Florida, but even if there, I would still be proud of that vote. Democrats like to give supposition that nothing bad would ever happen. Please, if nothing else, remember that George Bush has killed less Iraqis than Bill Clinton...who also gave us NAFTA, deregulation of media, so-called welfare reform; simply a shill for corporate America.

    I guess I am supposed to sweep these things under the rug because that's what being a good American is all about.

    Posted by onthehelm at 08/23/2008 @ 10:08pm

16. Posted by onthehelm at 08/23/2008 @ 10:08pm

    Call 2000 Nader exhibiting "naive idealism"...

    his run in 2004 and especially the run this year are pure ego.

    Lest we forget this is the man who said there was "little difference between Al Gore and George Bush" and now seeks to make the same claims about Barack Obama and John McCain.

    Well, TRILLIONS in debt, 4100+ dead GIs, untold thousand dead Iraqis, and a city in Louisiana filled with AMERICAN refugees later...

    he's lost his privilege to be considered "naively idealistic", much less relevant.

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/23/2008 @ 10:35pm

17. Actually, I think we need Ralph now more than ever. What's frequently overlooked is that the majority of congressional Democrats went along on this ride and the guy who'd like to take the wheel shows no signs of substantially changing course. If we've gotten to the point where things like reducing corporate influence, ending a clearly illegal and manipulated war, seeking real energy solutions, and redirecting excessive military spending to infrastructure are considered irrelevant......then we are well and truely screwed. Perhaps presidential candidates should focus on the important things like "what is a marriage" and "do you believe in evil"

    Posted by biobill at 08/23/2008 @ 11:16pm

18. Something REALLY WIERD is happening--I was frozen out of volunteering for Obama and out of thelynn sweet and swamp blogs today--there is a LID on free speech that is being twisted down very hard right now. It's like they do NOT want to from 'lefties' pushing them to the left. Which is silly. They might just make me vote green for prez and dem for all the other stuff. And I'm in the 'great state' of Daley, er, Illinois. Ironically, here is what I woulda posted: Vote for Obama or Clinton or WHOMEVER ENDS UP AS THE CANDIDATE AFTER DENVER, but next time, REMEMBER how the DEMS failed US, and in the meantime WORK HARD LOCALLY for the instant runoff/second choice ballot: http://www.migreens.org/hvgreens/irv-agen.htm And KEEP REMINDING WHICHEVER DEM IS OUR CANDIDATE IN THE FALL (AND I COULD REALLY CARE LESS--ALTHO I THINK HILLARY WOULD WIN BETTER) DO NOT GO FURTHER TO RIGHT. http://www.thenation.com/blogs/dreyfuss/347724

    Tell BARACK OBAMA or if it ends up being Hillary after Denver, TELL HILLARY--- NO UNILATERAL ATTACK ON PAKISTAN---LEAVE AFGHANISTAN ALONE QUIT GIVING MONEY TO THE DEFENSE INDUSTRY AND THE DEFENSE MEDIA AND WE WANT SOLAR POWER WE WANT WIND POWER (EITHER OF WHICH COULD SUPPLY ALL OF OUR Electric needs for each year.) WE WANT HEALTH CARE. WE WANT THE OIL COMPANIES TAKEN OVER BY GOVERNMENT AFTER ALL THEIR MALFEASANCE AND KILLING OUR TRAINS AND BUILDING THE SUBURBS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F

    Upset? Don't vote Green yet or they will steal it again!

    Posted by populismworks at 08/23/2008 @ 11:41pm

19. Whom I vote for is the very last bastion of my idealism, and I will hold onto it until I die.

    Here IS the problem. Someone like Ralph Nader is called an EGOTIST, when he is the ONLY candidate who has truly and sincerely, and WITHOUT PROFIT, HELPED ME PERSONALLY. AND YOU, AND EVERYONE ELSE IN THE COUNTRY. EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN has been helped by Mr. Nader.

    There has rarely been a Presidential candidate in this country, who has so TIRELESSLY fought to make our lives better, and DONE IT!!

    Since when has HOPE turned into EGO??

    Can we then say the same about a man, such as Barack Obama, who has practically trademarked the word HOPE? Isn't then his hope, entirely ego driven?

    And the fact that someone can argue that Nader could never be viable, because Congress would never work with him..... uhm....... isn't that...... er, um, kind of an issue? I mean do we just simply just resign to the lesser of the evils?

    Posted by DJGoody at 08/23/2008 @ 11:47pm

20. I mean do we just simply just resign to the lesser of the evils? Posted by DJGoody at 08/23/2008 @ 11:47pm

    Why not, it's the All-American way. One party (the Property Party), 2 branches.

    Posted by sloper at 08/24/2008 @ 12:27am

21. Biden is one of the chief enablers of the Iraq Invasion probably most guilty of any Democrat. Since Biden is one of the most craven of the puppts for the Israeli lobby, Obama thinks this will put him in good grace with the rich powerful Israeli lobby. And of course Biden is a puppet for the banking industry. Obama knows where the power lies: the Zionist lobby and the banks. Picking a snake like Biden says a lot about Obama. And what it says is really stinky.

    Posted by philbq at 08/24/2008 @ 12:28am

22. But Hillary is not a "liberal democrat". She is a Republican in most of her policy positions. That is why I will not vote for her ever. I voted once for her husband and I learned my lesson. Both Hillary and Obama kiss the feet of the Israeli lobby, and would start a war with Iran for them. I won't vote for either.

    Posted by philbq at 09/26/2007 @ 08:37am

    Picking a snake like Biden says a lot about Obama. And what it says is really stinky.

    Posted by philbq at 08/24/2008 @ 12:28am

    I have a feeling you would bad mouth anyone he picked. You made up your mind a long time ago.

    Posted by Benchrest at 08/24/2008 @ 12:41am

23. but a mastercard politician is the perfect fit.

    <I>CHARGE IT!</I>

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/24/2008 @ 01:20am

24. What is dillweed exactly?

    Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/23/2008 @ 11:55pm

    dill |dil|

    noun

    an aromatic annual herb of the parsley family, with fine blue-green leaves and yellow flowers. The leaves and seeds of dill are used for flavoring and for medicinal purposes. • Anethum graveolens, family Umbelliferae.

    • (also dillweed or dill weed) the fresh or dried leaves of this plant used to flavor food.

    ORIGIN Old English dile, dyle; related to Dutch dille and German Dill; of unknown ultimate origin.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/24/2008 @ 01:25am

25. It's interesting to notice that Obamathons attack Nader the person because they can't refute what he says. The truth is hard to refute, basically because it's the truth. Nader is the progressive Socrate's of our time, and once upon a time progressive Nation readers would gladly have him drink from the poison cup. I'll take substance over style anyday. The Nation turned into Thumper along time ago when it came to Obama and it hasn't been pretty. Gosh, now I see that we are all going to send the Obama campaign a hectoring letter about his positions. How feeble is that?

    Posted by manderso at 08/24/2008 @ 01:37am

26. but a mastercard politician is the perfect fit.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 08/24/2008 @ 01:20am

    They are all the same. It is a lost cause.

    Honest Abe.

    George Washington - "I cannot tell a lie."

    How far we have fallen.

    Posted by Benchrest at 08/24/2008 @ 01:50am

27. What, exactly, was the last major position Ralph Nader fought for? I mean all I can recall him doing the last eight years is two quixotic presidential runs and sniping from the sidelines. I mean if I'm missing a detail please someone feel free to enlighten me.

    Posted by yutsano at 08/24/2008 @ 02:15am

28. Posted by frankgrits at 08/23/2008 @ 11:33pm

    Yes, FRANK, we know. And we also know that it's a LIE when you say it's about how "McCain is the more experienced candidate"...it's about-

    "Get Mccain elected is the plan for her supporters. Hillary gets her debt wiped out, gets her respect at the convention and then runs against Mccain in 2012. You got to admire her political genius. She learned from the best. She got blindsided from obama's campaign and her stratgists made some serious miscalculations. They all learned a valuable lesson. It will help in 2012."-----Posted by frankgrits at 06/27/2008 @ 8:49pm

    BTW, my joke about Hillary was a joke....your comments on "something happening to Obama" were not.

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/24/2008 @ 08:40am

29. "What is dillweed exactly?"---Posted by JOMAMMA at 08/23/2008 @ 11:55pm

    Answer- FG's lack of imagination showing.

    heheh

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/24/2008 @ 08:42am

30. #

    What, exactly, was the last major position Ralph Nader fought for? I mean all I can recall him doing the last eight years is two quixotic presidential runs and sniping from the sidelines. I mean if I'm missing a detail please someone feel free to enlighten me.

    Posted by yutsano at 08/24/2008 @ 02:15am

    End the war in Iraq. Single payer healthcare. IMPEACHMENT. Repeal Taft/Hartly. Reign in corporate influence. And on and on. It's understandable that you are unaware of his platform as he and his brilliant running mate, Matt Gonzalez, are mostly shut out from the mainstream media (and the Nation too unfortunately) His website is votenader.org and there's lots of videos on youtube

    Posted by biobill at 08/24/2008 @ 09:46am

31. Reading and listening to Democrats crying so much proves Mr Nader's relevance. Mr. Nader has the guts to say what some are afraid to accept. This two party system is morphing into a one party, corporate controlled democracy?. Most of the taxes we pay subsidize corporate welfare. So where are we with health care, habeas corpus, war, the environment, political appointees, food and product safety, the enormous pay backs for corporations paying to play, gerrymandering, the presidential debate fiasco, run off elections, oil dependancy, the "Patriot" act, how veterans and soldiers are treated? Waste? Did your $300 buy you enough gas? Thank God for Mr. Nader and his persistance, a voice "for the people." I for one am tired of the spin, the costly negative sound bites and the use of labels to designed to keep the public from using their brains. We no longer have "news" but misleading entertainment on what once were "our" airwaves. Just because some are ok with this will not stop the rest of us from voting for REAL change. What will it take to overcome this denial? Another levee which should have been ready? Another war? We are living in Dick Cheney's world not because of Ralph Nader. Gore actually won, even though how many democrats voted for bush/cheney in Florida? We have allowed these two parties to become what they are. Until "we the people" are forefront in the mindset of "our" "elected" officials we will continue on a path detrimental to the well being of our republic. So long as "our" "leaders" are beholden to those with the means to influence, we will continue to pay the price. If you think either Obama or McCain will be of, by and for the people, you are delusional. Looks like we will continue to flip flop between these "two" parties.

    Posted by 4nonduopoly at 08/24/2008 @ 11:22am

32. More "Newbies" who are here to push us to vote Nader.

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

    Would any of them work at:

    310 First Street SE

    Washington, D.C. 20003

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/24/2008 @ 12:31pm

33. FYI, I'm most definitely not a newbie. And my name is D. James Goodwin, I am an independent record producer living in NY.

    I'm a very typical person living in this country, who has enough good sense to see that most of us have been bamboozled by the "Obama-mania", and its attempts to pass itself off as a "revolution".

    Posted by DJGoody at 08/24/2008 @ 12:52pm

34. Maskdelta, Just a guy from upstate NY who's worried about the kind of country my kid is going to inherit. http://www.nesea.org/buildings/ny01.htm I'm remote enough that the madness is pretty much irrelevant, but still, this was once a pretty nice republic.

    Posted by biobill at 08/24/2008 @ 2:19pm

35. Posted by lvliberty1 at 08/24/2008 @ 1:42pm

    Want a WORST endorsement of Nader...

    the fact LVLIB wants him around and active.

    You think Larry isn't interested in power.....for HIS side?

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/24/2008 @ 2:24pm

36. Of course Nader knocks Biden. old Ralph is stuck in the middle of the last century with the Chevy Corvair.he reminds of a comic strip of Ralph the sheep dog guarding a flock of sheep and the wolf and he spar all day long until; the bell rings and they both punch out on the clock and go home with their lunch buckets. Ralph is a ringer, spoiler if you will, who just shows up to provide color and drama to an otherwise silly process called campaigning. We are going to elect the same corporate sycophants who will give us 200.00 dollar oil and continue to sell America to the highest bidder. I hear that sovereign wealth funds are buying up some of our toll interstates highways.

    Posted by lachatte at 08/24/2008 @ 3:32pm

37. Dillweed is much loved by Nordics & other Europeans, excellent with many fish dishes & boiled potatoes.

    But what the hell it has to do with Biden et al, who knows.

    Turd blossoms more fitting.

    Bullshit blooms.

    A constrained choice, Biden, that might not have happened, if Georgia hadn't been pitched as victim of Russian aggression ... instead of a pliable tool of US & Israeli policy.

    Why else would Bush have sent Biden to Tblisi where Joe did nada in his briefest of visits.

    Posted by sloper at 08/24/2008 @ 4:05pm

38. A PLEA TO HILLARY SUPPORTERS WHO WON'T VOTE FOR OBAMA:

    Hello there. I'm an actual swing voter, a registered independent. I'm a pragmatist. I'm forced to vote for Obama, and this is why.

    John McCain gives his ear to the very same Neoconservative voices that have advised Bush these past eight years. We will fail--crumble from within--under that direction. Also, his off-shore drilling is a non-idea, as we in the scientific community know all too well, and energy crises can cripple even superpowers.

    I'm voting for Obama, a genuine diplomat, and a great intellect on issues like renewable energy.

    PLEASE HILLARY PEOPLE--won't you please help to turn this country around? I understand you are angry, disappointed. So have many people been for several years. But you will punish the whole country, not only Obama, by staying home on election day, or worse, voting for McCain. And many of this country's citizens (not all, but many) deserve better. You deserve better.

    Posted by Speculativa at 08/24/2008 @ 4:50pm

39. "It's interesting to notice that Obamathons attack Nader the person because they can't refute what he says. The truth is hard to refute, basically because it's the truth," said "Manderso."

    Thank you for stating the obvious! Though you are a little hard on "The Nation." After all, John Nichols has printed Nader's critique here, hasn't he? What other major news outlet has done that?

    I also owe a loud "thank-you" to my frequent opponent, "LVLiberty." I very much appreciate your defense of Ralph Nader, even if your main point is that Liberals are cowardly fools. Actually, in some respects, we are...

    Of course, I am not by any means suggesting that it is certifiably safe to VOTE for Ralph Nader. I am only suggesting that we would all do well to LISTEN to him.

    Posted by JakobFabian at 08/24/2008 @ 7:43pm

40. November 5th 2008--

    Ralph Nader goes underground again...ONLY to re-emerge sometime in late February-early March 2012 to announce his...what would it be?....sixth? shot at the Title?

    Between 2009-Christmas 2011...no signs will be found!

    Posted by Maskdelta at 08/24/2008 @ 9:43pm

41. So Nader only has credible opinions if he is a viable candidate? Wow, I guess then including you and I, there are very few people in this country with credible opinions. Posted by lvliberty1 at 08/24/2008 @ 1:33pm

    Actually no. Nader's opinions are invalid because his run for the Presidency is nothing but an ego-trip. Same with his opinions of other candidates. Notice NO ONE is ever good enough to him. He's on a many year long ego trip. Appearing only to criticize.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/24/2008 @ 10:43pm

42. Mask, CCC, and the like are being exposed for their true intentions. It isn't anti-war, it's not some progressive Universal Health Care program; it's just good old fashioned power. As nutty as Zero, Frosty, and some others can be, at least they are consistent in not being Democrat lemmings. Posted by lvliberty1 at 08/24/2008 @ 1:42pm ''

    Couldn't be more wrong in you over-inflated assessment. I never liked Nader. It's apart of hating people who only act to stroke their ego. Nader only ever comes out around Presidential election time to inflate his ego a little bit and then disappear. Maybe you should actually ask people why they think of someone what they do before making stupid criticisms.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/24/2008 @ 10:46pm

43. To see many of these liberal and leftist bloggers fall all over themselves defending Biden as a great progressive running mate to Obama is great fun by itself. Posted by lvliberty1 at 08/24/2008 @ 1:42pm

    Maybe you should actually read what I've written then you wouldn't come to these conclusions. Biden is not a pure Progressive and I have never claimed so. He is a good choice for Obama I said. Why? He has mucho foreign policy experience and clout. THAT'S why. He's not a progressive but neither is Obama.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 08/24/2008 @ 10:50pm

44. Maskdelta replies to my comment by calling some a name "newbie" and implying some are from somewhere in DC. Neither is true of me. What is true is how the democrats & republicans "spoil" our country and so many continue to be ok with it. But reading some of these comments tells the story, and corporate america is ok with that.

    Posted by 4nonduopoly at 08/25/2008 @ 8:21pm