Obama Tears Down the Wall

Barack Obama had several responsibilities when he embarked on the global tour that John McCain dared him to make.

The young senator from Illinois needed to establish himself as a credible world leader by going to Iraq and Afghanistan evidencing both his recognition of George Bush's manifest mistakes and his willingness and ability to wage a functional fight against legitimate terrorist threats. Check!

He needed to establish himself as respected commander-in-chief by not just appearing for photo-opportunities with troops in the field but by connecting with soldiers so that that all Americans who recognize their confidence in the man who seeks the authority to send these young men and women into life-and-death battles. Check!

He needed to establish himself as a diplomat capable of finessing the demands of Israelis and Palestinians in a manner that might suggest that, unlike Bill Clinton or George Bush, he is committed to advancing a difficult Middle East peace process from Day 1 of his presidency. Check!

And, of course, he needed to confirm his status as the greatest political orator of the era by delivering far more than just a stump speech in Berlin. Check!

How impressive did Obama's speech have to be to the citizens of Berlin, who greeted the Democrat who would be president with chants of the candidate's "Yes We Can" slogan?

Before Obama's arrival, London's Telegraph newspaper, a bible at the very least of the English-speaking European establishment, published a list of the 25 greatest political speeches of the past century.

"When Senator Barack Obama steps onto the stage on Thursday, next to Berlin's Victory column, the world will be expecting a momentous speech," the Telegraph observed. "The bar is high because, as even his detractors concede, Mr Obama is a remarkable orator. He first shot to prominence when he moved many at the 2004 Democratic convention to tears. He announced he would run for president last year with a beautifully-crafted address in Abraham Lincoln's home town of Springfield, Illinois. A pivotal moment of his epic primary battle with Hillary Clinton was his Philadelphia speech about race after the incendiary utterances of his former pastor Jeremiah Wright threatened to scupper his White House bid. But what makes a truly great speech?"

The definition chosen by the newspaper – "rhetorical brilliance, originality, historical importance, lasting influence, delivery and inspirational quality" -- was broad enough to include Obama even before he reached Berlin.

His 2004 Democratic National Convention keynote made the list at No. 25, after addresses by Winston Churchill, Adolf Hitler, John Kennedy and Ronald Reagan.

Ironically, the Kennedy (""Ich bin ein Berliner") and Reagan ("Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!") speeches were made in Berlin, not far from the spot where Obama spoke on Thursday evening. And the Hitler and Churchill speeches – respectively declaring Germany's determination to wage a world war and Britain's determination to win that war – were not unrelated to the city.

Such was the weight of history that Obama carried with him to the podium.

It was not just the crowd in Berlin that greeted him.

The whole world really was watching – including aides and allies of the McCain campaign who, frustrated by the success of their Democratic rival's global positioning, would be searching for some sign of a John Kerry-esque "Frenchness."

The McCain camp did not get what it was looking for.

Obama began his speech on a profoundly patriotic note.

I come to Berlin as so many of my countrymen have come before. Tonight, I speak to you not as a candidate for President, but as a citizen – a proud citizen of the United States, and a fellow citizen of the world.

I know that I don't look like the Americans who've previously spoken in this great city. The journey that led me here is improbable. My mother was born in the heartland of America, but my father grew up herding goats in Kenya. His father – my grandfather – was a cook, a domestic servant to the British.

At the height of the Cold War, my father decided, like so many others in the forgotten corners of the world, that his yearning – his dream – required the freedom and opportunity promised by the West. And so he wrote letter after letter to universities all across America until somebody, somewhere answered his prayer for a better life.

That is why I'm here. And you are here because you too know that yearning. This city, of all cities, knows the dream of freedom. And you know that the only reason we stand here tonight is because men and women from both of our nations came together to work, and struggle, and sacrifice for that better life.

That was good, but easy for a candidate who has made this rhetoric central to his appeal.

Where Obama hit his mark was with the bridge that linked his Americanism essay to the world. He did it as Kennedy and Reagan had before him, by celebrating the historic support of the United States for the people of a city that became the symbol of the Cold War.

Ours is a partnership that truly began sixty years ago this summer, on the day when the first American plane touched down at Templehof.

On that day, much of this continent still lay in ruin. The rubble of this city had yet to be built into a wall. The Soviet shadow had swept across Eastern Europe, while in the West, America, Britain, and France took stock of their losses, and pondered how the world might be remade.

This is where the two sides met. And on the twenty-fourth of June, 1948, the Communists chose to blockade the western part of the city. They cut off food and supplies to more than two million Germans in an effort to extinguish the last flame of freedom in Berlin.

The size of our forces was no match for the much larger Soviet Army. And yet retreat would have allowed Communism to march across Europe. Where the last war had ended, another World War could have easily begun. All that stood in the way was Berlin.

And that's when the airlift began – when the largest and most unlikely rescue in history brought food and hope to the people of this city.

The odds were stacked against success. In the winter, a heavy fog filled the sky above, and many planes were forced to turn back without dropping off the needed supplies. The streets where we stand were filled with hungry families who had no comfort from the cold.

But in the darkest hours, the people of Berlin kept the flame of hope burning. The people of Berlin refused to give up. And on one fall day, hundreds of thousands of Berliners came here, to the Tiergarten, and heard the city's mayor implore the world not to give up on freedom. "There is only one possibility," he said. "For us to stand together united until this battle is won…The people of Berlin have spoken. We have done our duty, and we will keep on doing our duty. People of the world: now do your duty…People of the world, look at Berlin!"

People of the world – look at Berlin!

Look at Berlin, where Germans and Americans learned to work together and trust each other less than three years after facing each other on the field of battle.

There was the theme.

There was the heart and the soul of Obama's message.

If reconciliation between the United States and Europe was possible after the battles of World War II, then surely it is possible after the battles of the Bush-Cheney era.

In Europe, the view that America is part of what has gone wrong in our world, rather than a force to help make it right, has become all too common. In America, there are voices that deride and deny the importance of Europe's role in our security and our future. Both views miss the truth – that Europeans today are bearing new burdens and taking more responsibility in critical parts of the world; and that just as American bases built in the last century still help to defend the security of this continent, so does our country still sacrifice greatly for freedom around the globe.

Yes, there have been differences between America and Europe. No doubt, there will be differences in the future. But the burdens of global citizenship continue to bind us together. A change of leadership in Washington will not lift this burden. In this new century, Americans and Europeans alike will be required to do more – not less. Partnership and cooperation among nations is not a choice; it is the one way, the only way, to protect our common security and advance our common humanity.

That is why the greatest danger of all is to allow new walls to divide us from one another.

The walls between old allies on either side of the Atlantic cannot stand. The walls between the countries with the most and those with the least cannot stand. The walls between races and tribes; natives and immigrants; Christian and Muslim and Jew cannot stand. These now are the walls we must tear down.

Yes, that was an echo of Ronald Reagan that Berlin and the world heard Thursday night.

To be sure, Obama's critics will do their best to miss it.

But those who chose to give the most significant international policy address yet delivered by the man who would be president an honest hearing will be hard-pressed to suggest that he did not stand as tall as the great communicator in Berlin.

Great speeches are rarely recognized for their significance at the time when they are delivered.

History makes them epic. Reagan's "tear down this wall" line became the stuff of history when the wall was torn down.

Obama's "the walls between old allies on either side of the Atlantic cannot stand" line will become the stuff of history if and when an Obama presidency achieves not just a reconciliation but a new era of global cooperation – on issues of peace, poverty and global warming.

That is a tall order.

Taller, indeed, than any of those placed before Obama when he began his improbable journey.

But on another historic night in Berlin, when the whole world was watching and listening, it seemed… possible.

Comments (169)

1. Barack Obama has a lot of nerve going to Europe and apologizing for America while our troops are still dying in Iraq and Afghanistan. He should be run out of town on a rail.

   Posted by frankgrits at 07/24/2008 @ 5:45pm | ignore this person | warn this person

   nice kneejerk john birch response.

   LUV OR OR LEAVE IT! NEVER ADMIT TO ANY MISTAKE! NEVER EVER SAY ANYTHING ABOUT AMERICA THAT IMPLIES WE ARE LESS THAN PERFECT!

   THUH POWER UV PIDE!!! GAWD BLESS THUH U....S....AAAYYYYYYY!!!!!!

   you are amazing.

   Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/24/2008 @ 6:10pm

2. Once again the right wingers here are slapping each others behinds in some sort of twisted glee... Come on guys, time to get your heads out of the sand. Your 'Man' Mccain wont be president. That simple. No matter how much bloviation comes from your keyboards. You guys really should get some sort of 'club' going.. You could call it something like 'The Far From Reality Boys Club' or something ... Happy could recruit at his KKK rallys, Lvl could recruit at his snake charmer/healing church and Frank... Hmm, sometimes I don't mind Frank... But come on Frankie... You have to see the writing on the wall here don't you...?? From now on, could you guys refer to Barack as President Obama..?? Just get used to it 'friends'....

   Posted by Vvf1969 at 07/24/2008 @ 6:20pm

3. "Barack Obama has a lot of nerve going to Europe and apologizing for America while our troops are still dying in Iraq and Afghanistan"

   frank, i'm sorry, but you are such a moron. i can't be any more blunt than that, sorry.

   your posts just reek of stupidity, anger, nonsense....

   Posted by darladoon at 07/24/2008 @ 6:20pm

4. no progressive or liberal really, truly loves obama. the only reason we want him in there is to prevent a mccain presidency (which would be a total disaster for our country).....

   will frank vote for mccain?

   Posted by darladoon at 07/24/2008 @ 6:22pm

5. honestly frank - and perhaps i've missed something - but i never remember mask being nasty to you or anyone.

   what i DO remember is the guy mercilessly and obnoxiously grilling you and not letting you off the hook for your little zel miller betrayal of your former party.

   i mean...look...i'm a dem who does not "love" his party nor rubber stamp everything all of them do...and had my candidate succumbed i would have been let down and upset. i probably would have disapeared for a while, concentrated on other things, sulked and cried into my belly button.

   i don't know if i could have passionately supported her...

   BUT I SURE AS HELL WOULD NOT HAVE GONE ALL ZEL MILLER, ABANDONED THE PARTY, AND VICIOUSLY TURNED ON MY PARTY TO AID AND ABET THE GUY WHO WANTS TO CONTINUE ALL THE POLICIES OF THE LAST GUY I SPENT RAILING AT FOR YEARS...

   until my son came home to safety and my pride got dinked by a combination of my candidate losing and a few posters at the nation calling me out on the whole thing.

   Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/24/2008 @ 6:26pm

6. "He spoke in submission to Europe"

   is it me, or do right wingers live in perpetual fear of being sodomized? just look at the choice of words: "submission". as if europe was f*cking us in the rear. as if obama were to weak or effeminate to f*ck europe in the rear, he has to 'submit' and as to be f*cked.

   it's so sad.

   should obama have gone to berlin and done the opposite? "we will not be fucked by europe; only we will do the fucking!"

   liberty = douche extraordinaire

   Posted by darladoon at 07/24/2008 @ 6:26pm

7. Posted by lvliberty1 at 07/24/2008 @ 5:56pm

   Posted by 2HAPPY at 07/24/2008 @ 5:48pm

   Posted by frankgrits at 07/24/2008 @ 5:45pm

   You guys (FRANK/HAP/LVLIB) are all living in the past. The days of US hegemony are over, as the cowboy has fallen off his horse! Global cooperation and community is long overdue, as it is disrespectful to the people and cultures of the world to insist that they emulate the worst aspects of America to be accepted.

   Reckless selfishness and blind individualism that ignores the effect of one's actions on others is irresponsible, and the notion that only those born into privelige should enjoy the fruits of life is wrong-headed, as talent does not limit itself to the rich, and rewards must be distributed to ALL who contribute to producing them in a fair and just world.

   It is high time that America get off its high horse and join the community of nations with a humble heart, so that we may lead with our best ideals rather than our worst inclinations.

   Posted by Metteyya at 07/24/2008 @ 6:33pm

8. Posted by darladoon at 07/24/2008 @ 6:26pm | ignore this person | warn this person

   never admit to a mistake. never back down!

   darla - there's not a thing obama can say that will not be nitpicked, twisted, dispaaged, etc. by...

   THOSE WHO WILL NOT VOTE FOR HIM.

   the kneejerk gallery of rightwing posters, like LL, PONTY, FRANK...just got their talking points and fixed notions and thats all there is to it.

   once again mr. obama's virtue and popularity elicit the worst of nitpicking bullshit from the talking point party of mendacious sophistry...

   par for the course.

   Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/24/2008 @ 6:37pm

9. Repugs have written off the great majority of countries on all continents as enemies or those inimical to "our" interests. How dare an aspirant to the presidency of the US speak in a conciliative manner!

   Posted by Sorelish at 07/24/2008 @ 6:41pm

10. HAPPY to say, I won't be there to see it! Posted by 2HAPPY at 07/24/2008 @ 6:52pm

    Yes, you & your cohorts are doing your best to make sure none of us will be there.

    Posted by Sorelish at 07/24/2008 @ 7:01pm

11. Ahh, Larry, Maasch and Happy (yeah, you too Frank), where to begin? You all sound, strangely enough, just like McCain - petulant spoiled brats in the personages of bitter old men. Frank, your bitterness at Hillary's unsuccessful run for the White House is profound, and more than a bit pathetic. As for the other 3 righties, it is Bush, Cheney, McCain and their fellow travelers on your side of the political spectrum who are an embarrassment, not just to this country, not just to the ideas that constitute the concept of "America", but to humanity. Nothing but a bunch of sick, bitter, twisted, pathetic old men who confuse human decency with weakness while simultaneously confusing abject ugliness, bestiality, and utter depravity with strength. While, of course, you all remain here, far from the damage and death in which you otherwise happily collaborate. Larry, you continue to give ministers a bad name - you think that being an American and a human (you know, a "global citizen") are somehow mutually exclusive. The bad news for all of you is that Obama, while not the messiah, blah, blah, blah, that you all like to whine about, has nonetheless shown orders of magnitude more truly American leadership than this country has seen in 40 years. And he did it again today.

    Posted by jmusolino at 07/24/2008 @ 7:03pm

12. <sigh ...> I don't know why I bother with this, but ...

    HAPPY, just how do you think other countries want to catch "up with us in term of their own lifetimes"? (I only ask b/c you're automatically assuming that other countries want what the U.S. has, which, in the real world, is far from the case. Another question: What indications do you have that other countries do want to be like the U.S.? ... this outta be good).

    And, U.S. firepower is the "security blanket" for whom exactly, and from whom exactly? I suppose we could just fill this answer in with *every country in the world that wants to be like the U.S.* and *this week's country I don't like*

    Posted by Litz at 07/24/2008 @ 7:04pm

13. Thanks, John Nichols, for the fine post on what was a fabulous speech by Barack Obama.

    The best thing about the speech is that it sets a marker for future cooperation between the U.S. and Europe on critical issues.

    It's a marker placed at a sufficiently far distance that the effort required to meet the challenge has at least some reasonable chance of bringing about a better future for all of us.

    Let's hope anyway.

    And hopefully, President Obama will continue to set important markers at the requisite long distances.

    Now that's change that I might even believe in.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 07/24/2008 @ 7:27pm

14. Skip visiting wounded soldiers so you can work out at the Ritz-Carlton. Check!

    Posted by woodyee at 07/24/2008 @ 7:31pm

15. Now, if we can just manage to avoid a conflagration with Iran, and an increasingly precipitous meltdown of the American economy.

    I don't believe that the Vegas odds (if available) on either event not occuring would be very encouraging, sad to say.

    Fasten your safety belts, it's promising to be a bumpy ride.

    Posted by b_kool_66 at 07/24/2008 @ 7:39pm

16. Sure it was a nice speech. He's awfully good at it. Lofty rhetoric indeed. It's too bad that his foreign policy imperialism is not much different that GWB's.

    His statements about Iran, Afghanistan, Israel policies, and the war on terror sound eerily similar to the current occupant of the White House.

    Posted by ebennet at 07/24/2008 @ 7:39pm

17. Do you guys really cut and paste from Drudge ?

    Woodyee.. You really chimed in with that one... ZOINKS..! Im sure it went something like... " Senator, you really should go visit the wounded vets today... Nah, F-them, I cant miss another Tai-Bo session "... Is that how you imagine it Wood..? Cuz ya know how stupid Barack is... Just not a smart guy.. One thing WE dont need in the Oval Office is someone Smart these days... "Four More Years" !! "Four More Years" !!

    Posted by Vvf1969 at 07/24/2008 @ 7:47pm

18. In his article above, Mr. Nichols lists what he feels were Barack Obama's responsiblities in Berlin, along with the comment "Check!", indicating he supposedly met them.

    Read Obama's recent interview with Katie Couric:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/22/eveningnews/main4283623.shtml

    Uncheck!

    God almighty, this man (Obama) has no clue in the world what to do!

    Here's a quote from the Couric interview:

    "Obama: Katie, I have no idea what would have happened had we applied my approach"

    Wow!

    God help us if this man becomes President! Mr. Nichols is enthralled because Barack Obama is a brilliant orator when delivering a scripted speech. What Mr. Nichols doesn't see is that there is no substance behind the oratory at all.

    Darladoon, I see you are posting in on this thread. I have a favor to ask, and given where you said you were headed in a thread a few weeks back, you may be able to help.

    My request is - if Barack Obama wins the Presidency, will you loan us Stephen Harper to run things in place of Obama?

    Posted by sjchermak at 07/24/2008 @ 7:51pm

19. Yes, they have sipped the kool-aid and Obama will do nicely thank you. No more arrogant American supremacy. Their America will submit to the UN and the European Union. Their America will become a "good social democracy". Forget about our national security, forget about being the one country that defends the powerless, forget about Israel and those pesky Jews;

    But, most wet dreams are just that. They aren't real and neither is their dream for America.

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 07/24/2008 @ 7:46pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    so...if we don't act like a bunch of arrogant, imperious, assholes...

    we are caving into the euros??? there's no other way to see this?

    doesnt make sense, but since when does that matter to the right?

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/24/2008 @ 7:52pm

20. Posted by 2HAPPY at 07/24/2008 @ 7:43pm

    Can you confirm that he asked them to distribute them there?

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/24/2008 @ 7:59pm

21. Wow ... Another Katie fan ! She goes from left wing hack to respected reporter... Hows that happen ??

    God help us..?? You still in Y2K mode at your shelter SJC..?? Come on out man its safe... Dudya is almost gone(said in whisper voice)...

    Please guys, Its President Obama. Just let sink in. Say it again... President Obama....

    You will be assimilated...

    Posted by Vvf1969 at 07/24/2008 @ 8:01pm

22. Posted by sjchermak at 07/24/2008 @ 7:51pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    "Couric: And I really don't mean to belabor this, Senator, because I'm really, I'm trying … to figure out your position. Do you think the level of security in Iraq …

    Obama: Yes.

    Couric … would exist today without the surge?

    Obama: Katie, I have no idea what would have happened had we applied my approach, which was to put more pressure on the Iraqis to arrive at a political reconciliation. So this is all hypotheticals. What I can say is that there's no doubt that our U.S. troops have contributed to a reduction of violence in Iraq. I said that, not just today, not just yesterday, but I've said that previously. What that doesn't change is that we've got to have a different strategic approach if we're going to make America as safe as possible."

    now...lets see your out of context quote...

    "Obama: Katie, I have no idea what would have happened had we applied my approach"

    yup. same-o lame-o repugnant truth twisting crap!

    the way i see it the biggest difference between mr. obama and the repugnants in this respect is that mr. obama admits he's not omniscient, can't predict the future nor results of every action.

    the repugnants either really believe they know everything (which, combined with their hyper ideologically charged sense of superiority/actual terrible judgement goes a long way toward explaining the mess of iraq) in which they are dangerously, arrogantly, foolish.

    now if in their private moments they realize they do make mistakes, are not omniscient, and really cannot say with total certainty what the exact results of everything they do will be yet don't admit such...

    they are pandering liars.

    personally i suspect a little of both.

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/24/2008 @ 8:02pm

23. Is Obama running for President of Europe?

    He was embarassing today....after all the history lesson he gave today he forgot to mention the fact the Europeans were responsible for getting the slaves from the African tribes and shipping them to America.....

    Horrible speech while not there "not campaigning"

    Posted by JOMAMMA at 07/24/2008 @ 6:49pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    was mccain campaigning in colombia?

    oh really! obama should have hectored the europeans for slavery? oh my...

    i'm sure you would LOVE to see mr. obama act and speak stupidly. and if he did, of course you would call him down on such stupidity.

    but of course when he knocks one out of the park...even worse!!!!

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/24/2008 @ 8:12pm

24. Vvf1969,

    I do not want to be assimilated.

    That is what some of you on the left promote, assimilation of people into some kind of happy go lucky world socialist community where the government provides one with all their needs, as the government sees it. So you then get to have a dumbed down and lousy system of health care, with long wait times like in Canada or shoddy conditions like that found sometimes in the NHS in the UK. And you get to enjoy a society where all are equal - equally poor, like "the people" enjoyed in the ultimate Utopia, the Soviet Union.

    Did I mention the Soviet Union? Gee, what happened to that? It no longer exists because, in Berlin, John F. Kennedy pointed out the shortcomings of Communism and said it would not be tolerated, and Ronald Reagan told Gorbachev it was over, which it was, because Ronald Reagan shoved it out of existence.

    Those two individuals went to Berlin for a purpose, and that purpose was achieved when the Berlin Wall came down.

    Why did Obama go to Berlin? Berlin is just another city in the world now, not anyplace special or noteworthy anymore, because John F. Kennedy and Ronald Reagan delivered it from the communism that caused it to be different and divided.

    There was nothing left in Berlin to do, yet Obama went there anyway. Why? He went there to campaign for President of the United States, that is why. Same reason Obama went to Jerusalem, to campaign for President of the United States.

    So Obama's trip did have a purpose, and was at least partially successful judging by the reaction of people like John Nichols.

    You talk about coming out of the shelter when George W. Bush is gone. You are 180 degrees out of phase. NOW is when it is safe. If Obama wins, then it WILL be time to go into the shelter, unless Darladoon is willing to loan us Stephen Harper.

    Posted by sjchermak at 07/24/2008 @ 8:36pm

25. WoW.. Impressivo !! You scared me ! Tell me if JFK were running right now, you loonies wouldn't be smearing him too.. And as far as the Soviets... It was all Regan huh...? God i miss the good ol' days of superhigh inflation and all the cold war bravado...

    Look into your crystal ball for us SJC.... Whats it say... oh ? Obama wins..?? thought so... Get used to it... Oh wait.. is the Fox news terror alert going off on my TV..?!?! WHat color ?? DARK MAGENTA ..?? Is that bad..??

    Heres a prediction... Obama wins, everyone turns gay, 9 yr old girls pregnant (and get standard govt. sponsored abortions), income tax up 234% .... etc..ok... You get my point (prolly not)..

    You sound surprised Pres. Obama campaigned overseas.... DiD that shock you?? lol... Do you think Mccain OR Obama do anything but campaign these days..?? Get with reality ...

    Partially successful?? LOL.. Try again sport... Just plain ol' successful.

    you will be assimilated...

    Dont be scared ... Say it with me... Pres-I-Dent Obama...

    Posted by Vvf1969 at 07/24/2008 @ 9:06pm

26. Lib... I live in a constant state of Near orgasm... Lets get that straight. Mkay..?

    You should give it a whirl..

    Posted by Vvf1969 at 07/24/2008 @ 9:37pm

27. You could almost imagine him asking permission for the US to join the EU.

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 07/24/2008 @ 5:56pm

    you could only be so lucky.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 9:44pm

28. should obama have gone to berlin and done the opposite? "we will not be fucked by europe; only we will do the fucking!"

    Posted by darladoon at 07/24/2008 @ 6:26pm

    hey,

    invite canada and venezuela and mexico, too.

    we've got oil, nudge, nudge.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 9:47pm

29. He was embarassing today....after all the history lesson he gave today he forgot to mention the fact the Europeans were responsible for getting the slaves from the African tribes and shipping them to America.....

    Posted by JOMAMMA at 07/24/2008 @ 6:49pm

    hmmm?

    john maasch?

    sounds european to me.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 9:51pm

30. ALL other countries have no terrestial HOPE of ever catching up with us in term of their own lifetimes.

    by HPPAYPAPY

    what on earth does this mean?

    catch up how, debt?

    murder rate?

    # of wendy's?

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 9:53pm

31. A Paris correspondent on the Lehrer Report said it all: "By comparison John McCain has all the appearance as coming from the past century". She had the tact and good grace not to call him Grandpa.

    Posted by mystic at 07/24/2008 @ 9:53pm

32. -US fire power is still their last security blanket and they know it!!

    by HPPAAHPPAHY

    i suggest you limit such ramblings if visiting other nations.

    they might put little curly hairs in your flambé.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 9:55pm

33. Enjoy your liberal version of global `equality'....HAPPY to say, I won't be there to see it!

    Posted by 2HAPPY at 07/24/2008 @ 6:52pm

    ah, the good old days when some people were able to die of poverty.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 9:57pm

34. I live in Southern California and I don't think I've ever even heard of that kind of church here.

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 07/24/2008 @ 6:55pm

    "And these signs will accompany those who believe:

    In my name they will drive out demons;

    they will speak in new tongues;

    they will pick up snakes with their hands;

    and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all;

    they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

    Mark 16:17-18

    hiiiiisssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 10:00pm

35. suicide-via-multiculturalism

    bybybyby HHHPPPPPAAAAY

    that's right!

    white people slaughtered the indians so we could be safe and white.

    if only we could send them darkies back.

    i wonder if they come with a money back guarantee, heheh.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 10:04pm

36. English as the global language

    by HAHAHAHAHAPPY

    now, that's something that is sooooooo stupid.

    inglish iz dumbbbbbb.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 10:06pm

37. why do we have bases in over 100 countries?

    Posted by 2HAPPY at 07/24/2008 @ 7:24pm

    alas,

    sometimes greed knows no limits.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 10:06pm

38. Here is what Bush's speech in Berlin would have been:

    Greetings from the world's biggest polluter! Haw-haw. Just kiddin,' Dick Cheney told me to break the ice with that. I'm sure glad to be here in Berlin. I was kind of surprised to see the Wall down, though. When did that happen? Well, as they say, Ick Irma Berliner. That means "I speak German," you know. Haw-haw. Berlin is a great country. You know, I became familiar with your history watching Hogan's Heroes on TV back when I used to snort coke in the Texas Air National Guard. And now here I am, standing in front of the Wall that isn't there anymore for some reason, really happy to meet y'all. I sure wish that Wall was there--it'd be a great photo op. As it is I'm just gonna have to grope Merkel again. Hope Condi isn't too jealous. Haw-haw. Anyway, the Yuu-ninet States is glad to have Germany as such a strong ally after saving your asses in World War Two against the Nazis. They were tough sons a bitches too--did y'all ever see Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade? Great flick. I loved it when Harrison Ford punched the Nazis in the balls. Haw-haw. Y'all should Netflix it sometime.

    Here is what Cheney's speech in Berlin would have been:

    Greetings, gooks! I mean, krauts! Hey, here's a song for ya: Bomb-bomb-bomb, bomb bomb Berlin. Bomb-bomb-bomb, bomb bomb Berlin... Aw, come on, that's funny, why isn't anyone laughing? I am in Berlin, right? I tried to chart my trip on the Internet but I don't know how to work a computer yet. Cindy got me a Commodore 64 for my birthday, though, and I'm working on it. Next I have to find out what a "modem" is. Maybe some of you fellers could help me out, because I hear you're good with technology and stuff. Not like us, we're in a mental recession back home and so we can't do anything right. Funny how you and those Asians are so into that tech stuff...must be in the genes. Anyway, I lasted longer than the Berlin Wall, so I'd make a helluva good president, don't you think?

    Posted by Europhile at 07/24/2008 @ 10:09pm

39. His statements about Iran, Afghanistan, Israel policies, and the war on terror sound eerily similar to the current occupant of the White House.

    Posted by ebennet at 07/24/2008 @ 7:39pm

    yep.

    fool 'em once.

    fool 'em twice.

    fool 'em thrice.

    maybe's he's just got to forkfeed the same pablum that people "understand".

    please, america, please.

    not one more.

    please elect someone sane for a change.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 10:09pm

40. Posted by Europhile at 07/24/2008 @ 10:09pm

    nicely done.

    however, it seems the second speech is by mccain and not cheney.

    cheney's would be more like:

    "so?

    qwah! qwah! qwah! qwah!"

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 10:14pm

41. Posted by lvliberty1 at 07/24/2008 @ 7:46pm

    anachronistic ramblings, at best.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 10:16pm

42. Posted by sjchermak at 07/24/2008 @ 8:36pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    now thats a lot of typical kneejerk, semi-accurate, satano-aynrando ideological lockstep quackage!

    seems like "socialist" europe stood with us against communist soviet union for 40+ years, SJ.

    "So you then get to have a dumbed down and lousy system of health care, with long wait times like in Canada or shoddy conditions like that found sometimes in the NHS in the UK"

    HEY FROSTY! hows that healthcare system you guys got? there's always some gasbag rightwing talkingbox yakking about how you poor canadians are suffering under such an awful horrible healthcare system.

    you see, our privately run system is great! nobody gets turned down, has to fight tooth and nail to recover benefits...and if you DO have lots of money and great insurance you don't have to wait at all to get semi-necessary non-vital surgical procedures!

    "And you get to enjoy a society where all are equal - equally poor, like "the people" enjoyed in the ultimate Utopia, the Soviet Union. "

    canada? all people are equal? HEY FROSTY - ARE ALL PEOPLE IN CANADA EQUAL? perhaps frosty fears internment in stalinist style canuck gulags...

    but gee - western europe is communist? like the chinese? hmmm...i'm learning so much from you here!

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/24/2008 @ 10:22pm

43. WND

    BY HPPPPAPPPPPY

    WND? what a joke.

    The tragedy of Anglo-Saxon self-hatred

    Posted: June 22, 2007 1:00 am Eastern

    By Tristan Emmanuel © 2008

    Multiculturalism destroys the cultural integrity of a free and democratic society, and that is why the Bush immigration policy is bad news. Unfortunately, liberals would prefer to call people names rather than deal with the facts.

    http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56300

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 10:24pm

44. > That is what some of you on the left promote, assimilation of people into some kind of happy go lucky world socialist community where the government provides one with all their needs, as the government sees it. So you then get to have a dumbed down and lousy system of health care, with long wait times like in Canada

    Hmmm...Been sick in the U.S. and been sick in Canada. Several times both countries. Guess whose wait was longer, whose medicine was more "dumbed down"? I won't even touch Europe, where I lived for 7 years and which still has the best healthcare I've ever experienced.

    > or shoddy conditions like that found sometimes in the NHS in the UK.

    Don't look to the UK as a model of Europe. They go their own way and ape the U.S. more closely than the EU--to their detriment.

    > And you get to enjoy a society where all are equal - equally poor,

    Then how come Europe's GDP, per capita, is higher than that of the U.S?

    > like "the people" enjoyed in the ultimate Utopia, the Soviet Union.

    Oh yeah, equate the USSR with the EU and Canada. How ignorant and totally uninformed. Shows what a Faux News dittohead you are.

    Posted by Europhile at 07/24/2008 @ 10:25pm

45. > Multiculturalism destroys the cultural integrity of a > free and democratic society

    I agree. Send the Irish back to Ireland before it's too late!

    Posted by Europhile at 07/24/2008 @ 10:27pm

46. WND!

    CHECK IT OUT.

    WHACKOLANDNEWS.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 10:28pm

47. > Multiculturalism destroys the cultural integrity of a > free and democratic society

    Or, as Robert Orben says, illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian.

    Posted by Europhile at 07/24/2008 @ 10:29pm

48. Oh yeah, equate the USSR with the EU and Canada. How ignorant and totally uninformed. Shows what a Faux News dittohead you are.

    Posted by Europhile at 07/24/2008 @ 10:25pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    those stupid europeans! consistantly reporting to be statistically significantly happier than us americans, healthier, saving 10%+ of their income...

    and how dare they have successful market based economies while assuring the health and education of their people?

    SHEESH!

    they are all sooooo poor!!!!

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/24/2008 @ 10:30pm

49. Notice that the leftists are nearly in orgasm because Obama has bowed to Europe.

    by lvliburntofferings.

    orgasm?

    bowed?

    how racy, pastor.

    "OBAMA TO DANCE IN LEATHER AT U.N. PRIDE PARADE"

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 10:33pm

50. will you loan us Stephen Harper to run things in place of Obama?

    Posted by sjchermak at 07/24/2008 @ 7:51pm

    you have confirmed your moronocity.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 10:35pm

51. unless Darladoon is willing to loan us Stephen Harper.

    Posted by sjchermak at 07/24/2008 @ 8:36pm

    "Maxime Bernier's term as foreign affairs minister ended Monday with a 130-word letter of resignation to Prime Minister Stephen Harper.

    "This is to inform you that I am resigning my post as Minister of Foreign Affairs, effective immediately," he wrote.

    "I informed you late this afternoon that last night I became aware that I had left behind classified government documents at a private residence.

    "Prime Minister, the security breach that occurred was my fault and my fault alone and I take full responsibility for my actions."

    He left the documents in the home of former girlfriend Julie Couillard -- a woman who had once been involved with members of the biker underworld. The documents involved material related to the NATO summit held in Bucharest, Romania in early April."

    *********** ah, the brilliance. **********

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 10:40pm

52. She had the tact and good grace not to call him Grandpa.

    Posted by mystic at 07/24/2008 @ 9:53pm

    well,

    i should be so lucky to live so long.

    i hope someone calls me "grandpa" some day.

    making fun of someone's age is pathetic.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 10:42pm

53. I agree. Send the Irish back to Ireland before it's too late!

    Posted by Europhile at 07/24/2008 @ 10:27pm

    don't forget the austrians like maasch.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 10:43pm

54. I was always happy to leave.

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 07/24/2008 @ 10:42pm

    open you eyes.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 10:44pm

55. McCain's got the big MO.

    Posted by frankgrits at 07/24/2008 @ 10:33pm

    and you've got tired clichés.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 10:45pm

56. I do not want to be assimilated.

    Posted by sjchermak at 07/24/2008 @ 8:36pm

    too late!

    just ask the federal reserve bank.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 10:47pm

57. Also you don't display enough cognitive abilities to pass the pre enlistment testing

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 07/24/2008 @ 10:36pm

    who cares? send 'em to kill!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 10:48pm

58. Notice that the leftists are nearly in orgasm because Obama has bowed to Europe. This is what they have begged for on these pages for years now. Today they got a taste of their wet dream. An America that yields to the "superior" and "more sophisticated" Europe.

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 07/24/2008 @ 7:46p

    And so-called Americans are orgasming all over themselves while standing subserviant to the Europeans.

    Posted by frankgrits at 07/24/2008 @ 10:38pm

    ™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™™

    Love is in the air

    Everywhere I look around

    Love is in the air

    Every sight and every sound

    And I don't know if I'm being foolish

    Don't know if I'm being wise

    But it's something that I must believe in

    And it's there when I look in your eyes

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 10:51pm

59. Posted by frankgrits at 07/24/2008 @ 10:38pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    man. you really have been tuning into el rushbo a lot lately, dittohead.

    "two hundred thousand socialists turned out to see a socialist make a speech that they could agree with."

    really? they were all a bunch of socialists? so our closest allies are socialists? maybe...our allies are our enemies! now thats scary!

    "And so-called Americans are orgasming all over themselves while standing subserviant to the Europeans."

    oh my god! "so-called Americans". you mean...treasonous traitors? liberal commie treasonous traitors? please frank, enlighten us all on the nature of betrayal and turncoating. you are an expert.

    goodamned fifth column of uhmuhrukuns! scheming to make us subservient to them commernist europeans!!!

    "Obama has a hell of a lot of nerve going to Europe and apologizing for America at the same time are troops are giving their lives"

    thats what he did? how so? again, perhaps i should trust your judgement when you talk about someone else having a "lot of nerve". you should know...

    "I think all you Obama cultists should get used to saying President McCain. Now that has a genuine ring to it doesn't it?"

    i love the truth, traitorous ditto-head liar. who know what tomorrow will bring? perhaps the great silent army of ageing racists and ignorant fascist dupes WILL come through for old flippy mac in the end.

    this is going to get sooooo much uglier before its done.

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/24/2008 @ 10:51pm

60. Posted by frankgrits at 07/24/2008 @ 10:38pm

    Kind of funny FRANK calling Obama a socialist when...a few months back when Hillary still had a shot and Obama had only won a few primaries/caucuses...

    FRANK "graciously" was going to "allow" Obama to be Hillary's Veep and then "let him run after her 2nd term was over in 2016"....

    now, in the throes of his madness (i.e. supporting McCain to "avenge Hillary" in 2012)...he calls Obama a "socialist" like HAPP or LVLIB would (and have for months).

    How do I knnow Obama's speech was monumental and politically powerful here and abroad...

    the fact that our local Right-Wingers (LVLIB, HAPP, and of course FRANK)...

    are freaking the f**k out!

    LOL

    Posted by Maskdelta at 07/24/2008 @ 10:56pm

61. Posted by Maskdelta at 07/24/2008 @ 10:56pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    isn't it eerie how much like el rushbo yankee grits is sounding? creepy.

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/24/2008 @ 10:58pm

62. watch out MASK! you are being watched!

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/24/2008 @ 10:59pm

63. Posted by frankgrits at 07/24/2008 @ 10:38pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    I dont get it. All I see or hear these days, especially after the primaries is Obama leading in the polls(and fund raising), and McCain making another gaffe. Can you show me where McCain is doing so great? A web site? T.V. station?(other than fox news please) Anything?

    I've tried, and had no luck. Finding all this goodness about McCain is like trying to find Waldo in a peppermint plant.

    Posted by Daisenryaku at 07/24/2008 @ 10:59pm

64. To all...

    while I was on vacation last week...

    did FRANK go around saying that he had "reported me and got me banned"?

    Oh, PLEASE, tell me he was that stupid and egomaniacal?

    Posted by Maskdelta at 07/24/2008 @ 11:00pm

65. Posted by Maskdelta at 07/24/2008 @ 11:00pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    i dont know about last week, but he just said it on either this or one of the last two blog response pits of the campaign 08 thingy, MASK.

    its here somewhere...

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/24/2008 @ 11:04pm

66. are freaking the f**k out!

    LOL

    Posted by Maskdelta at 07/24/2008 @ 10:56pm

    they're all a-fluster with orgasm talk.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 11:04pm

67. Were you singing that while the terrorists were flying toward the towers?

    Posted by frankgrits at 07/24/2008 @ 11:00pm

    fuck you.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 11:05pm

68. Posted by frankgrits

    pathetic.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 11:08pm

69. frank,

    i'm putting you on ignore for a while.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 11:12pm

70. here frank:

    A SAD DAY IN MEXICO, A FEW YEARS AGO

    the secretary told me,

    and so i ran to the t.v. (the one with the good reception)

    and i saw and didn't believe

    and i changed the channel

    but it wouldn't go away

    a crash? the chaos. the bystander standing by,

    hoping as i was, as you were (where were you?)

    dust, screaming, bewilderment, "MOVE, NOW!"

    as if one could put order to the insanity

    and yet time was frozen

    so much confusion

    yet time was frozen

    now the radio, too

    i called my wife

    "oye, no vas a creer lo que pasó"

    "i know" i said, "i'm watching CNN en español"

    and then, the rumours, the hope stopped.

    and the icy grip on time was shattered

    as the second testament to,

    what shall i call it?

    hate, malice, ignorance,

    nothing will suffice

    insufficient words suffer when faced with

    such a daunting task

    and people leapt one last time

    praying to land in the arms of those who wanted them back

    and time raced forward and backward--but with what aim?

    one cannot feel empathy for the dead,

    for death is theirs alone.

    but to those trapped, trapped

    because they forgot their lunch box

    or wanted to get a good start that day

    i felt their pain and fear and why? why? why?

    if only for a moment

    and then i could not share their pain

    now, no one could.

    we could only run

    my condolences to all

    fz

    Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 09/11/2007 @ 02:46am

    Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 11:18pm

71. Take your shots now, I'm outta here.

    Posted by frankgrits at 07/24/2008 @ 11:15pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    nitey nite, traitorous dittohead lie and bullshit repeater.

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/24/2008 @ 11:19pm

72. "Sure. Check the latest Gallop poll. Obama's lead is a mere two points when it should be about twenty at this point."

    And what do you base that on, except your metaphorical abasement before the idol of Hilary? Incidentally, most polls show a slightly larger lead. As to your prediction about Obama "crawling" to the Clintons; I'll just take comfort in your consistently wrong track record on this election.

    "socialists turned out to see a socialist make a speech that they could agree with. And so-called Americans are orgasming all over themselves while standing subserviant to the Europeans. "

    Right, Obama is a socialist. You have only a nodding acquaintance with the truth, don't you? And where exactly are Americans being subservient to the Europeans? Incidentally, you misspelled subservient and how does one be that if one is standing?

    Posted by brunowe at 07/24/2008 @ 11:22pm

73. "Notice that the leftists are nearly in orgasm because Obama has bowed to Europe"

    yet another sexual connotation: obama "bows" to europe...as if being sodomized.

    "the fact the Europeans were responsible for getting the slaves from the African tribes and shipping them to America....."

    they (france + england) were also responsible for recognizing the moral depravity of slavery in the first place (before the united states, i should add).

    so, again, maasch, you are being silly.

    Posted by darladoon at 07/24/2008 @ 11:24pm

74. It was a good speech, a solid speech that conveyed some solid ideas. It wasn't a "great" speech but we have become so accustomed to inarticulate and unintelligent leaders that anyone who can string two coherent sentences together becomes a new Pericles or Daniel Webster.

    We have been the vicitms of an idiocracy. We have spent eight years governed by morons and the cronies of morons. We long for a President that doesn't make us embarrassed because he did too much coke in his earlier years or is in the incipient stages of dementia. We long for a President who is not someone who can shoot the breeze with us but someone who can inspire us and lead us. Barack Obama is capable of doing that.

    He is not the Second Coming of Jesus. He is a mortal human being practicing politics and applying skills he learned as a community organizer. We are a community that needs to be organized after eight years of incompetence. That's why he inspires hope in us.

    Posted by midnight04 at 07/25/2008 @ 12:01am

75. is "frank" not over the hillary loss yet?

    Posted by Zero at 07/24/2008 @ 11:44pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    he's a dittohead now.

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/25/2008 @ 12:06am

76. "But the question, then, becomes this: If McCain thinks Obama wants to lose in Iraq, and thousands of troops support Obama's policies, does this mean that McCain thinks those troops want to lose in Iraq?"

    http://tinyurl.com/5j4u2e

    Not to mention more than half of the USA!

    When people actually think about most things that come out of new con repubs' mouth, one can sometimes empathize that new con repubs are somehow mentally disabled per their denial of reality for so long where it's become anything is possible 'if' it pays off in the end. Has greed finally sucked the ability to reason completely out of the new con repub mind? I do believe it's a done deal. There's so much evidence.

    Say hello to President Barack Obama.

    Intelligence is back.

    And it's 'not' HBO...

    Posted by hsuBfools at 07/25/2008 @ 12:12am

77. The celebrations may soon be over, as we're very close now to war with Iran. I wish I was joking, but I'm pretty worried.

    At the end of May, the House introduced Concurrent Resolution 362. In Section 3, Congress...

    *demands that the President initiate an international effort to immediately and dramatically increase the economic, political, and diplomatic pressure on Iran to verifiably suspend its nuclear enrichment activities by, inter alia, prohibiting the export to Iran of all refined petroleum products; ***imposing stringent inspection requirements on all persons, vehicles, ships, planes, trains, and cargo entering or departing Iran***; and prohibiting the international movement of all Iranian officials not involved in negotiating the suspension of Iran's nuclear program* (emphasis added)

    This resolution calls for Bush to initiate a coalition to embargo and blockade Iran. It sits in committee with a guaranteed majority of 246 cosponsors.

    http://tinyurl.com/3vk9zb

    This was quickly joined in committee by Senate Res 580, which has only picked up 41 cosponsors so far, and which specifically demands only slightly milder things such as an international refined petroleum embargo, "among other measures."

    http://tinyurl.com/3vk9zb

    It seems Obama may not be the one to stop it. He's just now been talking VERY TOUGH in Israel (please click through to Haaretz and The Jerusalem Post on Obama's visit and his pretty militant language):

    http://tinyurl.com/57g7kj

    http://tinyurl.com/6c2axc

    Do you think Iranian leaders ever read the Israeli dailies? TODAY, they shut down all further cooperation with the IAEA, which reported in May that it thought Iran was hiding something:

    http://tinyurl.com/6hgxle

    Bad feeling. Just me?

    Posted by man00ver at 07/25/2008 @ 12:34am

78. Aw, distraction.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 07/25/2008 @ 12:43am

79. Well, not much to think about here, Americans. Obama says we'll all have to accept working harder for less when he is elected. Not sure that's what I was hoping for in our next President.

    So what can we anticipate from President Obama? Cuts in Social Security? Cuts in SSDI? Smaller homes? Colder winters? A slower internet? Rationed fuel? Rationed food? Rationed medical care? I'd really like to know what he means by "change". He never really says, but call me paranoid, I'm a little nervous about his ideas that he can't seem to really let anyone in on.

    And I'm wondering if his supporters think he isn't talking about them when he suggests sacrafice? Maybe they think he's just talking about us rich Republicans.

    Posted by Elcobar at 07/25/2008 @ 12:59am

80. Dont be scared ... Say it with me... Pres-I-Dent Obama...

    Posted by Vvf1969 at 07/24/2008 @ 9:06pm

    I'm having serious doubts you have ever served in the military. Unless you have been one of those typical FU's we occasionally get.

    Also you don't display enough cognitive abilities to pass the pre enlistment testing

    Posted by lvliberty1 at 07/24/2008 @ 10:36pm

    Mr. Liberty... 'WE' Occasionally get...?? We who..?? are you a recruiter..? detailer..?? Please... Dont talk out your ass... (i know thats hard for you) but pay attn.... please..

    Im deployed AS I TYPE THIS mr. liberty... AFN tv full tilt... On a ship that just left Augusta Bay, Sicily... Spent time at the MWR shack playin hoops last week... Went to Sig to get some supplies too... But WTF would you know about any of that... Dont say we... You have no idea... One enlistment in supply or the chow line makes you a nobody as far as 'WE' are concerned. If you want we can swap 'war stories' just like your hero ollie... But i'm sure yours would top mine... So save your doubts chickenhawk, mkay.. so something if your so pro-military... What are you doing besides stuffing your face full of doritos (no offence to the dorito brand) and sucking down diet coke...?? What are you doing for the GWOT..?? Im harrasing merchant shipping in the eastern med right now... You..?? Chickenhawk.....

    Posted by Vvf1969 at 07/25/2008 @ 01:47am

81. I believe that it is essential for our new president to build bridges and repair our standing with the international community.

    I do not think that you can do that with jokes about bombing another country, (bomb-bomb Iran).

    McCain standing in the CHEESE isle as he lectures about "the surge", says it all to me.

    He is all lies and lacks the cogent fortitude to string together sentences for the press, how is he going to put together a plan for the 21st century?

    I'll tell you how--PUPPET MASTERS. Do you want a competent leader, or a puppet?

    Your choice.

    Posted by PrairieDeb at 07/25/2008 @ 03:12am

82. Why does the Nation have some of the most moronic, vitriolic, and delusional right-wing comments on the web?

    Many of the above comments are juvenile and cynical, like the tirades of drunken frat boys.

    Posted by redemma at 07/25/2008 @ 07:42am

83. "Obama will come begging to the Clintons any time now."----Posted by frankgrits at 07/24/2008 @ 11:05pm

    Another keeper for the FRANK Prognostications That Are TOTALLY Off-the-Mark File!

    LOL

    Posted by Maskdelta at 07/25/2008 @ 08:57am

84. BTW, I also love this...

    "Rush Limbaugh says there's nothing to worry about. McCain will be the next President."----Posted by frankgrits at 07/24/2008 @ 11:15pm

    Remember OLD FRANK?

    "Limbaugh may be able to fool a willing dupe like yourself but he's have to go a long way to put one over on me and the majority of Americans for that matter. I will concede that there are millions of his Dittoheads out there. It has something to do with the part of their brain that beleives bullshit. Give it up. Limbaugh is not credible."----Posted by FRANKGRITS 10/05/2007 @ 1:42pm

    OR...

    "If you want to be taken seriously, if you want to be respected, if you want to have any chance at the future, if you love this country and all the opportunity it affords, turn off Limbaugh and Faux News. You're being brainwashed and controlled. Later."------Posted by FRANKGRITS 06/21/2007 @ 12:38pm

    Posted by Maskdelta at 07/25/2008 @ 08:59am

85. Posted by frosty zoom at 07/24/2008 @ 10:51pm

    Were you singing that while the terrorists were flying toward the towers?

    Posted by frankgrits at 07/24/2008 @ 11:00pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Frank, that was way out of line! You truly have lost it. You are officially in line with the worst of the authoritarian, fear-mongering, racist wing of the GOP. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    Posted by BizarroRio at 07/25/2008 @ 09:06am

86. This article made me puke. There was NO heart and soul to his 'message' because THIS CANDIDATE has not much heart and soul in his message. Lots of ego, yes. Lots of conceit, yes. Lots of know-it-all-attitude, yes. But, sorry, NOT any measurable heart and soul. I just can't figure out why anyone, ANYONE, finds this man inspirational. Just because he can manipulate 'words' a hero does not make!!! I wish I had a front row seat; just so I could have actually puked onto his shoes.

    Posted by tinydancer at 07/25/2008 @ 09:09am

87. Posted by tinydancer at 07/25/2008 @ 09:09am | ignore this person | warn this person

    why do you not find him inspirational? no heart and soul...hmmm...

    what the hell is that supposed to mean? non-sequiter inarguable partisan bullshit.

    perhaps you are projecting a tad...

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/25/2008 @ 09:24am

88. You're being brainwashed and controlled. Later."------Posted by FRANKGRITS 06/21/2007 @ 12:38pm

    Posted by Maskdelta at 07/25/2008 @ 08:59am | ignore this person | warn this person

    considering the fact that he reported regularly listening to el rushbo...

    strangely prophetic, eh?

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/25/2008 @ 09:26am

89. Even the MSM is noticing Obama's incoherence and all-talk, no-substance style when it comes to foreign policy. Yesterday the Washington's Post published an outstanding editorial from yesterday about Barack Obama and Iraq, but it merits more attention than that. I'd like to focus in particular on two points that may not have received sufficient emphasis on this blog and others.

    First, Prime Minister Maliki's statements (which are not fully in line with Obama's anyway) do not reflect the views of Sunni leaders in Anbar province. As the Post notes (and Obama has acknowledged) these leaders say that American troops are essential to maintaining the peace among Iraq's rival sects, and that they are worried about a rapid drawdown.

    Incidentally, this view badly undercuts Obama's efforts to minimize the impact of the surge by insisting that the "Sunni awakening" was the key factor. If Sunni leaders still believe that American troops are essential, even after al Qaeda has been routed, then the role of our troops, and of the new strategy associated with the surge, must have played a critical role in sustaining the "awakening" when al Qaeda was running rampant.

    Second, the Post brilliantly takes on Obama's claim that Afghanistan is the "central front" in the battle against terrorism:

    [T]here are no known al-Qaeda bases in Afghanistan, and any additional U.S. forces sent there would not be able to operate in the Pakistani territories where Osama bin Laden is headquartered. While the United States has an interest in preventing the resurgence of the Afghan Taliban, the country's strategic importance pales beside that of Iraq, which lies at the geopolitical center of the Middle East and contains some of the world's largest oil reserves. If Mr. Obama's antiwar stance has blinded him to those realities, that could prove far more debilitating to him as president than any particular timetable.

    The Post calls Obama's position here "eccentric." I would have said "cynical, " and the last sentence in the quotation above hints at this, I think. Either way, Obama's position is misguided and dangerous.

    Posted by pontificus at 07/25/2008 @ 09:39am

90. Is Obama put in this position by the CFR and the Banksters, like all the rest? I sure hope not, but...

    GOT INCEST?

    In the WSJ article entitled "Fed's Fireman On Wall Street Feels Some Heat", it states that Timothy Geithner, President of the NY Fed:

    "…initiated a series of dinners at the New York Fed's executive dining room, in which five or six executives from a major Wall Street firm would meet his own top people…"

    Such relationships may help the Wall Street Banks, but do not serve the public interest. It is completely inappropriate for officials who have regulatory duties to be socializing with the people they are supposed to regulate.

    Kissinger Associates is a front for "David Rockefeller, Inc." also known as the CFR and JP Morgan "Chase" AND Exxon.

    Geithner is Rockefeller's bankster, and Rockefeller is calling the tune on literally everything.

    That helps to explain why Rockefeller named his Manhattan office building "The Tower Of Power."

    Geithner is the operational head of the snake...and the body is fully revealed here:

    In 2001, he left the Treasury to join the Council on Foreign Relations as a Senior Fellow in the International Economics department. He then worked for the International Monetary Fund as the director of the Policy Development and Review Department until moving to the Fed in 2003. In 2006 he became a member of the influential Washington-based financial advisory body, the Group of Thirty.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_of_Thirty

    The Group of Thirty was founded in 1978 by Geoffrey Bell at the initiative of the Rockefeller Foundation which also provided initial funding for the body. Its first chairman was Johannes Witteveen, the former managing director of the International Monetary Fund. Its current chairman of trustees is Paul Volcker.

    The Group of Thirty's groundbreaking work on derivatives, Derivatives: Practices and Principles, published in 1993 was commissioned in the 1990s just as the use derivatives grew and began to move into the mainstream of finance.

    former members include:

    Austrian-American economist, Fritz Machlup

    former deputy Bank of England governor, Rupert Pennant-Rea

    former Bundesbank President, Karl Otto Pöhl, and

    the former Federal Reserve chairman, Alan Greenspan

    Masters Of The Universe, all tied to Rockefeller and the IMF:

    http://www.imfsite.org/abolish/whyrock.html

    Posted by plunger at 07/25/2008 @ 09:47am

91. HEY, PLUNGER, you're back...

    and here we are a YEAR AND FOUR MONTHS after World War-III started....glad you escaped the concentration camp!

    BLOG | Posted 03/28/2007 @ 02:14am MoveOn Launches Online Townhalls by Ari Melber

    "Time is up. World War III starts Friday – and it will coincide with conditions inside the US that lead to Martial Law, through either an Anthrax attack or a phony Bird Flu Outbreak."----Posted by PLUNGER 03/28/2007 @ 7:46pm

    Posted by Maskdelta at 07/25/2008 @ 10:02am

92. there are indeed some points with which i disagree with mr. obama.

    no big deal. only simpletons and zombies agree with everything someone else believes.

    for example...

    i don't mind there being a few fences in this world. good fences make good neighbors.

    furthermore i'm becoming increasingly convinced that the future of the world will increasingly involve a devolvement in terms of power and primary political entities such as municipalities, states, provinces, etc. large nations such as the united states seem to me to be increasingly untenable and massive exchanges of populations of people with vastly different value systems and beliefs seem far more likely to result in conflict and tension than kumbayah love.

    a lot depends on how much sea levels rise over the next few decades. if the climate change is drastic enough i'm afraid developed nations may be forced to become fortress states in order to survive, even in order to assist less developped nations. it will go best for those areas which can supply as much of their own needs as possible - economic autarchy.

    but indeed geographical devolution of power will be more pleasant if international peace is sponsored by wise leadership, and the better the world leaders get along the better the chance for such.

    but despite my differences with mr. obama, the above being only one of two or three, i'm still voting and working for his presidency.

    it just could not get much worse than what we have seen this last 7 years, and although i do think mccain is more competant...well...

    1. thats not necessarily saying much and...

    2. he's still a cog in that evil satano-aynrando repugnant cancer and i just can't support that kind of soft core corporate fascism.

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/25/2008 @ 10:04am

93. Posted by pontificus at 07/25/2008 @ 09:39am

    So who wrote that PONTI? Bob Novak?

    Posted by Maskdelta at 07/25/2008 @ 10:04am

94. >>>So then America is a nation of torturers and against the rule of law! We are a discriminatory nation and have yet to extend equality and opportunity to our people!

    Posted by pete kent at 07/25/2008 @ 10:24am<<<

    Yes, that is correct.

    Under Bush, America has consistently ignored international law in invading another country to control their natural resources and enrich US defense-related corporations, and Bush also ignored the Geneva Conventions on torture, and ignored US law regarding warrantless wiretaps.

    Discrimination against non-whites in a wide range of high wage jobs persists in America, especially against blacks. Blacks represent less than 1% of the physicians, attorneys, top executives, tenured professors, major news editors, investment bankers, and business owners in America.

    Obama is simply articulating that under an Obama Presidency, he intends to reverse some of these short-comings of America that got worse under Bush, and this is a good thing for Europeans to hear as well as Americans.

    Posted by Metteyya at 07/25/2008 @ 10:42am

95. Well, this is a disappointment: the improper use of the word "ironic" in The Nation. It has become more and more commonplace to use "ironic" to mean "oddly coincidental," yet it is still not actually correct to do so. I cringe at the day that the descriptive grammarians who write our dictionaries make it so, and if outlets such as The Nation are using it that way, that day can't be far away. I would expect as much from, say, The New York Times. But not The Nation! So sad.

    Posted by baklita at 07/25/2008 @ 11:04am

96. Posted by Metteyya at 07/25/2008 @ 10:42am

    You're a shining example of the idiotic, paranoid, America-hating leftist, steeped in knee-jerk, lapping up and regurgitating every leftist shibboleth. Let's parse your latest ranting:

    "Under Bush, America has consistently ignored international law"

    Which international laws are you talking about? And when did I vote for the people who enacted such laws? This country should obey 'laws' enacted by 'leaders' of the 'world community' in the UN, most of which leaders are unelected thugs and murderers? These are the people whose laws America should be obeying? Give me a break?

    "in invading another country to control their natural resources and enrich US defense-related corporations"

    Treating your wholly unsubstantiated accusations as established fact is totally normal for your ilk.

    "and Bush also ignored the Geneva Conventions on torture"

    To date, there have been a total of THREE people exposed to waterboarding. And since waterboarding does not harm anyone physically, but is psychological coercion, it is highly debatable whether it even qualifies as torture. But of course, in your world, the accusation serves as its own proof.

    ", and ignored US law regarding warrantless wiretaps."

    Total fabrication. Wiretaps are conducted pursuant to FISA, which was recently renewed by BOTH HOUSES AND BOTH PARTIES in Congress.

    Posted by pontificus at 07/25/2008 @ 11:17am

97. He closed with this: "Let us . . . once again engage in that noble struggle to bring justice and peace to our world." ONCE AGAIN? When did this nation ever stop? And will it only start again upon his ascension to the Presidency?

    Posted by pete kent at 07/25/2008 @ 10:24am | ignore this person | warn this person

    let me guess...yer a republican mccain supporter.

    yes - once again. because your parties little illegal 7 years have wrought more suffering, lined more pockets as a result of greed and incompetance, and brought this country closer to wicked fascism than at any time since mccarthy or the business plot. exactly - start again!

    your evil tresonous traitor heroes have suspended decency and will get away with their crimes, but obama hasn't told the half of it in terms of the lies and evil your party has wrought.

    lying, evil, treasonous, traitors.

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/25/2008 @ 11:34am

98. Posted by pontificus at 07/25/2008 @ 11:42am | ignore this person | warn this person

    that gasbag is a lying fascist. you post his lies, so your either a dupe or a liar too.

    gosh gee golly! and i was thinking that obama's "frightening svengali like mesianic charisma" would even turn old rush! (lmao)...

    you know, not that i believe in any of this, but if the christian messiah did come back...

    i'm positive he'd get crucified by some good god fearing christians - probably republican rapture fantasists when he tells them they ain't getting anywhere near heaven and there is no rapture...

    Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/25/2008 @ 11:56am

99. Stop McBush Now or we won't have another generation...90% of Europeans know who is the ONLY CHOICE for President and it is not McBush....

    Mcbush claims that he's going to "look at entitlement program" waste as a means of solving the budget crisis,but will give billions more to oil companies.

    We are in the midst of a political movement to concentrate private wealth into fewer and fewer hands while at the same time placing more and more of the burden for public expenditures on working people. McBush proposes to phase out the estate tax: the proposal to phase it out by the year 2010 would save the Walton family alone $30 billion) and targeting "entitlement" programs for cuts while "continually funneling an ever-expanding treasure trove of military appropriations down the befouled anus of pointless war profiteering, government waste and North Virginia McMansions" -- while we troll walmart aisles as zombie robots listening to the Fox News blaring from their in store TVs, we are mesmerized by the typical media-generated distractions, yammering about whether or not Michelle Obama's voice is too annoying, about flag lapel pins, about Jeremiah Wright and other such idiotic bullshit.

    We need to wake up!!!! It is almost but not too late.....GOP is desperate.....they have ruined our country and (almost) our future...there is almost nothing left....after my town went to Wash DC on several busloads to protest the war, within a few weeks, bush set about enacting laws prohibiting protesting on the washington mall.....look it up....

    EPA values our life less by $1 million than only five years ago, so they don't have to protect us from as much pollution...look it up.....

    Impeach Bush

    Elect Obama!!!!!

    Change NOW

    Posted by jrs112 at 07/25/2008 @ 11:59am

100. And since waterboarding does not harm anyone physically, but is psychological coercion, it is highly debatable whether it even qualifies as torture.----Posted by pontificus at 07/25/2008 @ 11:17am

     PONTI, who are voting for in the Fall...

     and what is HIS opinion on if waterboarding is torture?

     Posted by pontificus at 07/25/2008 @ 11:42am

     And what is Rush's view of your candidate?...and the candidate's likely view of Rush?

     Posted by Maskdelta at 07/25/2008 @ 11:59am

101. He ventured forth to bring light to the world The anointed one's pilgrimage to the Holy Land is a miracle in action - and a blessing to all his faithful followers Gerard Baker

     And it came to pass, in the eighth year of the reign of the evil Bush the Younger (The Ignorant), when the whole land from the Arabian desert to the shores of the Great Lakes had been laid barren, that a Child appeared in the wilderness.

     The Child was blessed in looks and intellect. Scion of a simple family, offspring of a miraculous union, grandson of a typical white person and an African peasant. And yea, as he grew, the Child walked in the path of righteousness, with only the occasional detour into the odd weed and a little blow.

     When he was twelve years old, they found him in the temple in the City of Chicago, arguing the finer points of community organisation with the Prophet Jeremiah and the Elders. And the Elders were astonished at what they heard and said among themselves: "Verily, who is this Child that he opens our hearts and minds to the audacity of hope?"

     In the great Battles of Caucus and Primary he smote the conniving Hillary, wife of the deposed King Bill the Priapic and their barbarian hordes of Working Class Whites. Background

     * Obama fears the Blair effect as tour continues

     * The Europhiles are not the future, Mr Obama

     * The Bugle - Barack Obama is coming to Europe!

     * Our leaders go after some Obama magic

     And so it was, in the fullness of time, before the harvest month of the appointed year, the Child ventured forth - for the first time - to bring the light unto all the world.

     He travelled fleet of foot and light of camel, with a small retinue that consisted only of his loyal disciples from the tribe of the Media. He ventured first to the land of the Hindu Kush, where the

     Taleban had harboured the viper of al-Qaeda in their bosom, raining terror on all the world.

     And the Child spake and the tribes of Nato immediately loosed the Caveats that had previously bound them. And in the great battle that ensued the forces of the light were triumphant. For as long as the Child stood with his arms raised aloft, the enemy suffered great blows and the threat of terror was no more.

     From there he went forth to Mesopotamia where he was received by the great ruler al-Maliki, and al-Maliki spake unto him and blessed his Sixteen Month Troop Withdrawal Plan even as the imperial warrior Petraeus tried to destroy it.

     And lo, in Mesopotamia, a miracle occurred. Even though the Great Surge of Armour that the evil Bush had ordered had been a terrible mistake, a waste of vital military resources and doomed to end in disaster, the Child's very presence suddenly brought forth a great victory for the forces of the light.

     And the Persians, who saw all this and were greatly fearful, longed to speak with the Child and saw that the Child was the bringer of peace. At the mention of his name they quickly laid aside their intrigues and beat their uranium swords into civil nuclear energy ploughshares.

     From there the Child went up to the city of Jerusalem, and entered through the gate seated on an ass. The crowds of network anchors who had followed him from afar cheered "Hosanna" and waved great palm fronds and strewed them at his feet.

     In Jerusalem and in surrounding Palestine, the Child spake to the Hebrews and the Arabs, as the Scripture had foretold. And in an instant, the lion lay down with the lamb, and the Israelites and Ishmaelites ended their long enmity and lived for ever after in peace.

     As word spread throughout the land about the Child's wondrous works, peoples from all over flocked to hear him; Hittites and Abbasids; Obamacons and McCainiacs; Cameroonians and Blairites.

     And they told of strange and wondrous things that greeted the news of the Child's journey. Around the world, global temperatures began to decline, and the ocean levels fell and the great warming was over.

     The Great Prophet Algore of Nobel and Oscar, who many had believed was the anointed one, smiled and told his followers that the Child was the one generations had been waiting for.

     And there were other wonderful signs. In the city of the Street at the Wall, spreads on interbank interest rates dropped like manna from Heaven and rates on credit default swaps fell to the ground as dead birds from the almond tree, and the people who had lived in foreclosure were able to borrow again.

     Black gold gushed from the ground at prices well below $140 per barrel. In hospitals across the land the sick were cured even though they were uninsured. And all because the Child had pronounced it.

     And this is the testimony of one who speaks the truth and bears witness to the truth so that you might believe. And he knows it is the truth for he saw it all on CNN and the BBC and in the pages of The New York Times.

     Then the Child ventured forth from Israel and Palestine and stepped onto the shores of the Old Continent. In the land of Queen Angela of Merkel, vast multitudes gathered to hear his voice, and he preached to them at length.

     But when he had finished speaking his disciples told him the crowd was hungry, for they had had nothing to eat all the hours they had waited for him.

     And so the Child told his disciples to fetch some food but all they had was five loaves and a couple of frankfurters. So he took the bread and the frankfurters and blessed them and told his disciples to feed the multitudes. And when all had eaten their fill, the scraps filled twelve baskets.

     Thence he travelled west to Mount Sarkozy. Even the beauteous Princess Carla of the tribe of the Bruni was struck by awe and she was great in love with the Child, but he was tempted not.

     On the Seventh Day he walked across the Channel of the Angles to the ancient land of the hooligans. There he was welcomed with open arms by the once great prophet Blair and his successor, Gordon the Leper, and his successor, David the Golden One.

     And suddenly, with the men appeared the archangel Gabriel and the whole host of the heavenly choir, ranks of cherubim and seraphim, all praising God and singing: "Yes, We Can."

     Posted by pontificus at 07/25/2008 @ 12:03pm

102. Posted by Maskdelta at 07/25/2008 @ 11:59am

     "PONTI, who are voting for in the Fall..."

     The lesser of two evils.

     "and what is HIS opinion on if waterboarding is torture?"

     I disagree with him on this issue. And if it were you or your loved ones that a captured target was targeting, I suspect you would too.

     Posted by pontificus at 07/25/2008 @ 11:42am

     "And what is Rush's view of your candidate?...and the candidate's likely view of Rush?"

     Rush doesn't like McCain. But I suspect that Rush will be voting for him as well, just like me.

     Posted by pontificus at 07/25/2008 @ 12:06pm

103. Posted by pontificus at 07/25/2008 @ 12:03pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     did you write that? not bad.

     fascist.

     Posted by frankgrits at 07/25/2008 @ 12:05pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     dillweed is honest enough to make implacable enemies.

     and damn frank - honestly - you sound exactly like a dittohead these days.

     Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/25/2008 @ 12:10pm

104. The closed mindedness of many Americans is jeopardizing the golden opportunity for all Americans. This man is NOT perfect but he carries many attributes that can herald the American agenda around the world. We cannot keep acting as if we are the lone cowboys out there engaging in unpopular invasions of other countries and sole putting the economic and physical burdens on the shoulders of the American taxpayers... this is lunacy!

     Smarten up people, the only way we can survive and thrive is to build strong economic and military allies with other countries. Our staunch political divisions are going to destroy us as it blinds us to the best opportunities for ALL Americans.

     A nation with out vision shall surely perish....

     Posted by nerakami at 07/25/2008 @ 12:11pm

105. Posted by frankgrits at 07/25/2008 @ 12:05pm

     Sorry, FRANK...don't think so.

     As your madness grows, you are rapidly becoming HAPPY or PONTI...i.e. quoting Rush on attacks on Obama.

     To "avenge Hillary" you've made a pact with the Devil you once warned the rest of us to avoid or he'd destroy us.

     Look at PONTI's post above (Posted by pontificus at 07/25/2008 @ 11:42am) lifted directly from www.rushlimbaugh.com...

     anything in that YOU wouldn't post???

     Posted by Maskdelta at 07/25/2008 @ 12:13pm

106. But I suspect that Rush will be voting for him as well, just like me.----Posted by pontificus at 07/25/2008 @ 12:06pm

     Maybe...after all, JUST LIKE FRANK, getting the Clintons back in the game for 2012 improves Limbaugh's fortunes LONG term.

     Of course, short term under a McCain Presidency, Limbaugh would be in the "back of the auditorium" in GOP politics.

     As for McCain and waterboarding...good to know that Obama OR McCain....(like on global warming, stem-cells, etc.)...

     you're ALREADY in the "back of the auditorium"!

     heheh

     Posted by Maskdelta at 07/25/2008 @ 12:16pm

107. "And we torture."

     well, then. wouldn't wanna forget that little bit.

     i can add some more:

     "and we imprison our own citizens, on our own soil, indefinitely, without probable cause."

     and:

     "and we spy our our own citizens without warrants."

     and:

     "we changed the tax codes so that the wealthiest americans could steal from the commoners."

     and:

     "we continue to fund an illegal and immoral war."

     and:

     "we threaten virtually any country we want."

     and:

     "the president can break the law with impunity."

     and:

     "the vice president can break the law, too."

     and:

     "the president can order someone buried alive."

     (serious)

     Posted by darladoon at 07/25/2008 @ 12:17pm

108. Posted by frankgrits at 07/25/2008 @ 12:15pm

     Hey, FRANK, as somebody who knows "real black people" and what the "black community" is all about...

     tell your robot "joke" again huh?

     Posted by Maskdelta at 07/25/2008 @ 12:17pm

109. did you see that, just last week, john yoo told john conyers, in a senate hearing, that he (yoo) couldn't deny that the president could order someone to be buried alive?

     Posted by darladoon at 07/25/2008 @ 12:18pm

110. the absolute stupidity of some of these posts clearly demonstrates the downside of democracy....

     ignorance should not be allowed a vote...

     Posted by nerakami at 07/25/2008 @ 12:19pm

111. Posted by frankgrits at 07/25/2008 @ 12:15pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     wow - its like listening to limbaugh, or coulter, or savage...

     its kinda creepy. no fanatacism like that of the recently converted!

     maybe FRANK has been possessed by the spirit of that goddamned wacked out traitor, zel miller!

     duel anybody? lol

     Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/25/2008 @ 12:22pm

112. Posted by frankgrits at 07/25/2008 @ 12:21pm

     So first it's "All he is, is a good speaker...nothing substantive to him"...

     now it's "He can't speak!"

     LOL@desperation

     Posted by Maskdelta at 07/25/2008 @ 12:23pm

113. has anybody noticed how obama resembles some kinda mule-latto version of satan? seriously! look at his bumpy little mule-latto head - you can see the horns there kinda trying to poke out, or maybe he sawed them off like in that hellboy movie - except that unlike hellboy, obama is really diabolically demonically evil!

     Posted by frankgrits at 07/25/2008 @ 12:21pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     hmmm frank. i'll look real hard next time. maybe you're right...hmmmm...

     Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/25/2008 @ 12:27pm

114. Posted by frankgrits at 07/25/2008 @ 12:26pm

     FRANK, my "little hobby" of saving your posts...

     has shown you to be a liar, a fraud, and/or probably a little bit nuts.

     Without them, you'd get away with this crap that you are a "life-long Democrat" who is supporting McCain because he is more qualified and a better person than Barack Obama...

     when in point of fact, it is merely that you WERE a Democrat who supported the Clintons and with the demise of her campaign, came up with this BIZARRE and contradictory strategy to try to elect McCain...so that Hillary could run again in 2012 (whereas with an Obama victory, her Presidential hopes end for good).

     You've even ADMITTED that that's what it's all about...

     "Her pleas of support for Obama will fall on deaf ears. We will bide our time util November when we will avenge her."----Posted by frankgrits at 06/3/2008

     Posted by Maskdelta at 07/25/2008 @ 12:36pm

115. Wow. Frank is sounding more and more neo-con every day. He is now using the socialist scare. Jesus. Next he will be the first to take up the sticks for the drumbeat of war.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/25/2008 @ 12:36pm

116. The Nation is infested with Obama cultists. Their objectivity has gone right out the window. It wasn't always this way.

     Posted by frankgrits at 07/25/2008 @ 12:31pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     who should they support? mccain?

     man - one pearl of wisdom after another!

     Posted by ibbleblibble at 07/25/2008 @ 12:38pm

117. Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/25/2008 @ 12:36pm

     His desperation is showing...as is his new COZY relationship with the Repubs/cons.

     Five months ago, he was COMPLIMENTARY to Obama...as long as it was him accepting Veep to Her Majesty. No "socialist" or "he's not really black" talk then.

     Now? He's copying his new buddies talking point.

     Posted by Maskdelta at 07/25/2008 @ 12:42pm

118. I thought Obama's speech was thoughtful, well-written, and a representation of the America we all want to be. Having a would-be president stand before Berlin and speak these truths was just what our country needed to begin to heal the rift that exists between us and other countries. This is the reason that Obama must become our president.

     Posted by staceray7 at 07/25/2008 @ 12:56pm

119. I do not want to be a European. They are socialists. They cannot afford the massive welfare state they have built because their birthrate is so low....so they ship in second-class citizens to do the dirtywork, then never let them assimilate. This is the model that those on the left want here. Obama wants to build up the welfare state. He has said so over and over in his brief career.

     My friends in Europe tell me that many in Europe secretly admire Bush, that the Bush-hating remarks stop once they start drinking...and that many a drunk Frenchman has said, "Thank God for Bush...the Americans know how to get things done."

     I'm not thrilled with McCain, but I know he won't sell us out. And he had the vision, early on, to know what needed to be done to fix the Iraq mess.

     Obama is like the guy who takes you on a whirlwind romance, but after a few weeks, you realize that having something in common actually does matter.

     Posted by DogT3 at 07/25/2008 @ 1:04pm

120. Posted by DogT3 at 07/25/2008 @ 1:04pm

     So the Europeans are a bunch of miscreant socialists....

     but they secretly love Bush and would like McCain?!?!?!?!?

     Posted by Maskdelta at 07/25/2008 @ 1:09pm

121. Posted by frankgrits at 07/25/2008 @ 12:52pm

     FRANKGRITS,

     You sound like someone who has a personal financial stake in having the Clintons in the White House.

     Were the Clintons going to help you get rich if they got elected? If so, how?

     Posted by Metteyya at 07/25/2008 @ 1:10pm

122. No, Europeans are swell. I don't have to demonize them to disagree with them on politics. But I'm an American. I like it here. I like the way it works here: work hard, very hard, and you can achieve anything. A woman I know who immigrated here from Afghanistan told me she could have gone anywhere in the world, but she picked the USA over, say, France (she speaks fluent French) because the French would never consider her a "Frenchwoman." "Here," she told me, "I could become an American."

     That means something to me. Americans gave 300 billion dollars to charity last year. BILLION. I like Americans. I don't like being lectured to by foreign nationals. And I certainly don't like being told that we are in any way inferior (except when it comes to maybe, food....Americans eat so much terrible crap...and we are exporting it all over the world. Ick.)

     Posted by DogT3 at 07/25/2008 @ 1:16pm

123. that's because you're buying Dillweeds crap. If you want to have an intelligent conversation with out the invective, I'm at your disposal. But not for long. Posted by frankgrits at 07/25/2008 @ 12:54pm

     Actually not really. I rarely read Mask. He is quantifiable. I tend to only read the people I find fun to talk with. No offense Mask. I often times know what he is going to say. The reason I say you sound neo-con and the reason you are so vehement is because right now, you are using every argument the neo-cons used against Kerry. "He is not strong enough on foreign policy", "He is a secret socialist".

     The socialist thing gets brought up EVERY TIME a demo is running by Con's. It is their battle cry. Their rallying call. You are using it like you are one of them.

     Also whether you are willing to admit it or not. Mask is right before Hillary started to lose you were complimentary of Obama. You said I can't quote this directly so I am going off memory, that you would be opposed to him being her Veep and then running in 2016. Or you said he should go back to Congress and lead in Congress then become President. Once Hillary started losing all of a sudden he was this horrible man.

     Now that Hillary has lost all of a sudden Obama isn't even qualified to be in the Senate. Frank the change is too well timed with the downfall of Hillary. Be careful Frank your colors are are showing. Unless you are the Republican operative that you always claim to be finding. Because you sound unnervingly like them. Only THEY invoke the fear the socialist card. Usually because they have to run their Presidents on fear instead of policy.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/25/2008 @ 1:20pm

124. "I'm willing to bet that you don't like a Presidential candidate going to a foreign country, especially Germany, and apologize for you. Am I correct?"--

     We're at war. Whether you agree with it or not, our guys our putting their asses on the line as we sit here. I think any politician who travels to a foreign country in a time of war has to respect that. You don't trash your country while our people are out there getting shot at.

     But I don't think Obama crossed the line. He came as close as he could get. But you have to ask yourself, what was he trying to accomplish?

     I think, aside from the "looking presidential" thing--because, let's face it, even those who love him have to admit has no record of accomplishment, none (and please don't say law review...can you imagine that nerdly achievement being a qualifier for commander in chief?)--I think he really does want world rock star status, because that translates to power. And power is the coin of the realm. Everywhere. Next to money.

     Does he actually believe what he's saying? Sure. But, if you do a close read of his speech, he doesn't really SAY anything meaty. It's all glorious. You can try and translate it in policy. But unless you know who this guy is, that's like reading tea leaves.

     I don't trust him yet. He was supposed to go to Iraq on a fact-finding mission. He treated it like a pure photo op. His statements to Terry Moran worry me. And they should worry his supporters, too.

     Posted by DogT3 at 07/25/2008 @ 1:30pm

125. Wait a minute...this is a KEEPER (if McCain wins)...

     "Of course you're wrong yet again. I never said that McCain wouldn't be an excellant President. He would be a great President but I don't think he'd want to serve more than one term. we'll see who his VP choice is. That will tell us alot."----Posted by frankgrits at 07/25/2008 @ 1:14pm

     So FRANK is betting that he won't HAVE to choose in 2012 (if Maverick wins) between him and Her Majesty!

     (BTW, like most of FG's predictions, don't bet on it!)

     Posted by Maskdelta at 07/25/2008 @ 1:44pm

126. Oh, man...you guys reading the latest breaking scandal on John Edwards? Looks like we're going to see another chastened husband, standing before the microphones, begging forgiveness from the stalwart wife.

     National Enquirer have filed a criminal complaint, probably as a ruse to get him to go on the record. Dudn' look good.

     Posted by DogT3 at 07/25/2008 @ 2:00pm

127. To John Nichols: Wow, what a great read!

     In the Georgia Primaries I voted for Hillary. When I saw the YouTube broadcast of Obama speaking in Berlin my thought was that I like this man more and more. He is amazing. His capacity to think and verbalize outside the Bush box gives me reason for hope for our future.

     For all you Obama supporters out there, "Go Obama!".

     Susan in Atlanta

     Posted by sbrewer1 at 07/25/2008 @ 2:04pm

128. Are there still people who read the National Inquirer?

     Posted by julien38 at 07/25/2008 @ 2:15pm

129. --Are there still people who read the National Inquirer?--

     Sure. They actually break stories from time to time. They got a lead on this rendezvous, and staked the place out.

     The police report is smart. It forces the LAPD to substantiate.

     Would I want my kid to do this kind of work (stake out politicians having extracurricular sex), no. But it's out there.

     Mr. Family Man.

     Why on earth do these guys take such stupid risks?

     Posted by DogT3 at 07/25/2008 @ 2:28pm

130. Posted by DogT3 at 07/25/2008 @ 2:28pm

     Hey, Dog...do you know how John and Cindy McCain's relationship began?

     Posted by Maskdelta at 07/25/2008 @ 2:29pm

131. "Second, the Post brilliantly takes on Obama's claim that Afghanistan is the "central front" in the battle against terrorism: "

     Rubbish. AQM was never a threat to take over the country and now that they've turned the Sunnis against them, they are even less of one. On the other hand, pressure against al-Qaida's Taliban allies makes things harder for al-Qaida. And who says that Obama can't launch strikes against their bases in Pakistan, or use the threat of same to goad Pakistan into action?

     "by insisting that the "Sunni awakening" was the key factor. If Sunni leaders still believe that American troops are essential, even after al Qaeda has been routed, then the role of our troops, and of the new strategy associated with the surge, must have played a critical role in sustaining the "awakening" when al Qaeda was running rampant."

     Rubbish again. As has been pointed out, the Awakening preceded the surge. Any Sunnis wanting US troops to stay are doing it because they are more worried about the Shi'ites then about AQM. Especially once Shi'ite-dominated army and police forces establish a greater presence in the Sunni provinces.

     ""Under Bush, America has consistently ignored international law"

     The Geneva Conventions, the prohibition against wars of aggression. Incidentally, torture is defined in the UN Convention Against Torture as "Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession"

     Drowning someone via waterboarding constitutes exactly that. Incidentally, it's only three people that we KNOW about.

     "Total fabrication. Wiretaps are conducted pursuant to FISA, which was recently renewed by BOTH HOUSES AND BOTH PARTIES in Congress."

     Wrong again, the Bush administration had been wiretapping without warrants and had even claimed it had the authority to do so.

     Posted by brunowe at 07/25/2008 @ 2:45pm

132. In Iraq, he was told by Maliki that his formula for withdrawal was correct. He was also told by General Patraeus that it was not. I'll go with the American General thank-you.

     Posted by frankgrits at 07/25/2008 @ 1:57pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     Right Frank, heaven forbid that the wishes of the titular head of the government of a country count for more than the commander of the foreign forces occupying same.

     Posted by brunowe at 07/25/2008 @ 2:46pm

133. I honestly don't, Mask.

     McCain was a bad boy, for sure. But I kinda give him a little pass. He was subjected to major psychological stress, for five years. His first wife says he's a champ. He adopted her two boys, and never walked away from them after the marriage went south.

     Difference is, back then, he was a private citizen. He wasn't out there preaching to the masses about compassion. Anything but. He was an admiral's kid. A screw around.

     I give Obama a pass on doin blow when he was a teenager, too. He was a mixed-race kid being raised by white people who probably said plenty of racist stuff in his presence. He had issues. He got over it. He matured.

     But Edwards is out there being Mr. Supportive Husband, pushing his cancer-ridden wife all over the stage. Different deal entirely.

     Posted by DogT3 at 07/25/2008 @ 2:58pm

134. Outside the box? He was reading from a teleprompter for God's sake. Get a grip. Posted by frankgrits at 07/25/2008 @ 3:01pm

     Do you know what a TelePrompTer actually looks like? On top of that anything he is reading was written by someone. I am guessing a lot of it was approved by him if not written by him also. So does it make a difference if he was reading it? Kennedy read his speeches. Lincoln read the Gettysburg address. Give me one President who ad libbed and entire speech. You are castigating him for reading speeches when all Presidents read their speeches. Jesus you really are looking for anything to criticize him for.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/25/2008 @ 3:17pm

135. I normally don't post on these sites. I think they devolve into playground insults. Total waste of time.

     But, I'm curious about what people are thinking about Obama. I sure wish he were less into the government hand-out thing. Poor people like being empowered, not pandered to. Welfare is good, but too often, it creates dependency. I'd love to see someone like him in the White House. It would be healthy for the country.

     But, oh, my, we're facing some big challenges: boomers retiring in huge numbers and not enough replacement workers to pay the social security freight. The system is going bankrupt and everyone is pretending otherwise. People under 30 are totally screwed unless we fix it.

     "Taxing the rich" does not help the economy. Rich people and corporations are also investors and employers. Just a fact. Fairness what people want.

     Iran, unlike any other country, seems willing to use a nuclear weapon. Ahmadinejad doesn't care about blowback to his own population...screw the people (as he has been). It's about Allah. They have to be marginalized. And Europeans may love Obama, but they have not been cooperative on sanctions. Germany and France are two of Iran's biggest trading partners. Outrageous.

     Environment: what good is it if we spend a fortune creating green industry, if China and India are killing us in the market and dirty as can be? Cap and trade is an illusion. Irresponsible.

     Wind and sun won't make cars go or planes fly. Just won't. Let's focus on the 80% of energy policy that everyone agrees on, rather than the stuff on the margins. Electric, flex-fuel cars! Look at what Brazil accomplished in three years. They run on surgarcane.

     These are the real life things I worry about, not whether Obama "insulted" me by reaching out to Europeans.

     Say this for Obama: he totally outsmarted the Clintons. Props, man. They are still sitting there trying to figure out what him them.

     If he can do that to Al Qaeda, that would be awesome.

     Posted by DogT3 at 07/25/2008 @ 3:24pm

136. Do your homework on Maliki. He won't be around much longer.

     Posted by frankgrits at 07/25/2008 @ 3:05pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     I have done more on this than you have. The point is that most Iraqis want us gone and Maliki, whatever his political weakness, is still more qualified to speak for Iraq than Petraeus is.

     "boomers retiring in huge numbers and not enough replacement workers to pay the social security freight. The system is going bankrupt and everyone is pretending otherwise. People under 30 are totally screwed unless we fix it. "

     No, it isn't going bankrupt. Once the trust surplus runs out, it would still be able to pay out 75% of what it's supposed to. That needs fixing (I've suggested raising the retirement age and removing the cap on FICA taxes) but it's not catastrophic.

     "Rich people and corporations are also investors and employers."

     Except that they clearly haven't done much investing here. Fewer jobs now than before the Bush tax cuts. If the money goes into financial speculation and moving jobs overseas, it doesn't help us.

     " Ahmadinejad doesn't care about blowback to his own population...screw the people (as he has been). It's about Allah."

     Ahmadinejad doesn't have the last word. Further, Iran is playing a shadowy game; not enough hard evidence to justify anything except tighter sanctions.

     "Wind and sun won't make cars go or planes fly. Just won't. Let's focus on the 80% of energy policy that everyone agrees on, rather than the stuff on the margins. Electric, flex-fuel cars!"

     No, but they will do a lot of other stuff. Further, the electricity that would power electric cars has to be generated by something. No reason why wind/solar can't ultimately do that. Further, as oil prices stay high, more energy-efficient countries will have an edge. That's the good in creating a green industry.

     Posted by brunowe at 07/25/2008 @ 3:59pm

137. I honestly don't, Mask.

     Posted by DogT3 at 07/25/2008 @ 2:58pm

     You don't, or you don't want to SAY?

     BTW, FRANK, the answer is...

     he came home...Carol Shepp McCain had been in a terrible car accident and put on weight...

     and McCain started a series of adulterous affairs, then eventually resulted in him marrying Cindy, an heiress 15 years younger, who helped to finance the start of his political career.

     YEARS later, he reconciled with Shepp.

     Posted by Maskdelta at 07/25/2008 @ 4:15pm

138. Say this for Obama: he totally outsmarted the Clintons. Props, man. They are still sitting there trying to figure out what him them. If he can do that to Al Qaeda, that would be awesome. Posted by DogT3 at 07/25/2008 @ 3:24pm

     Probably one of the most succinct and intelligent postings in a long time. I may have minor disagreeances on some points but I think everything was to the point.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/25/2008 @ 4:16pm

139. Not against solar & wind. Bring it on.

     But 70% of energy needs are transportation, e.g. airplanes move a more cargo than most people realize. Aviation vital to the economy, not just for travel. Trucks won't go on wind and sun either.

     Don't wanna sound like I'm the shit.

     What I think, is all.

     Posted by DogT3 at 07/25/2008 @ 4:45pm

140. Mask--

     Dude, just scrolled back....you gotta cut the man a break on that.."Series of adulterous affairs." The man had his mind f**ked with for five years. He was tortured, yeah, but they also made him listen to his fellow prisoners being ripped up. Guys he was surviving with. C'mon, man.

     I'm no shrink...imagine the anger issues he had to work out. Sex isn't always about sex.

     Anyway, that's not anything like Edwards' deal. Not in a million years. C'mon, dude.

     Posted by DogT3 at 07/25/2008 @ 5:01pm

141. Jan 2007: Obama "I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse." So manifestly wrong was Obama about the surge that his spokesmen are saying he always believed it would reduce violence, and earlier this month his campaign removed negative references to it on his website. Yea, terrific wisdom Senator.

     Posted by hughm88 at 07/25/2008 @ 5:45pm

142. A US President must motivate more than corporate payola at all cost.

     A US President must inspire the average amongst us towards greater accomplishment, greater honesty and to clarity of ones own leadership responsibility.

     Rather than the current misdirection of fear: firewalls of failure and misdeeds that is the hsuB / cHeney / McCave admin.

     Obama has called on those of us that live in a world where greed and cowardice can be left behind with the simple minded and ignorant; for a greater good-- that can tear down the walls of established apathy and lost faith.

     There can once again be intelligence in our White House and in our Congress-- rule of law.

     The Supreme Court, not so much...

     Posted by hsuBfools at 07/25/2008 @ 6:21pm

143. Wow, Obama must be the Messiah. He's going to end greed and cowardice.

     Posted by lvliberty1 at 07/25/2008 @ 6:54pm

     Yep-- "can be left behind with the simple minded and ignorant"

     Posted by hsuBfools at 07/25/2008 @ 7:11pm

144. Wow, Obama must be the Messiah. He's going to end greed and cowardice. Posted by lvliberty1 at 07/25/2008 @ 6:54pm

     Nah. Just hopefully he won't screw things up as bad.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 07/25/2008 @ 7:30pm

145. I'm reminded of Obama's speech on race. That incredible event, according to the press, that would start the discussion to cure all the ills of race that have existed in the country. Then people started reading it and asking, did he really out his Grandmother as a racist? And of course after the defense of Rev Wright and the his follow up antics that speech is laid to rest in the dustbin of embarassing speeches. Now John Nichols gives us his critique...well not critique....maybe joyous proclamation is more like it, to the wall,wall,wall,wall,wall,wall,wall,wall,wall,wall, wall, wall, wall speech as I'm sure it will come to be known. Most reviews didn't seem to find it quite so fabulous, but Nichols is clearly infatuated! Well how about reading it? Kennedy and Reagan gave stirring meaningful speeches addressing incredibly serious issues and telling the world America would not bend to tyrany regardless of whether the rest of the world liked it. Obama references those great men, and then does the opposite, promising American surrender and appeasement, and praying that everyone will like us again. What a sad travesty...Kennedy and Reagan must be weeping in their crypts. John Nichols..try and be a journalist....stop sucking Obama's toes!

     Posted by valwayne at 07/25/2008 @ 7:44pm

146. Lib... Since i like to flame it up i expected more nasty ness... I apologize... I do get to Rota.. I was stationed there... I am part of a Maritime Sec Force(for now).. We used to babysit ships (MSC) and the like thru the STROG. That has Slowed.. Now we do things a little different. W/O violating opsec, i can say I have been boarding 'VOI'.. (vessels of interest) for the last 4 months.. Feels more like harrasment at times. But we have made a dent in the arms smuggling in the East Med. Ask your sons if they ever got on the MPS ships (The Marine Corps) ones... The Bobo class ships.. They are all named after MOH rec... In closing, would like to know what your sons thought of thier'Iraqi Freedom' exp...?? I'm still confused and still convinced anyone that smiled at us just did so because I was carrying an m4. Truce..??

     Posted by Vvf1969 at 07/25/2008 @ 7:50pm

147. flippity-flop, salagadoo I knew it, John, you'd do it too, even the Times called the speech weak but you extoll it, up to the peak. Katrina must have, with little tact, read you aloud the riot act.

     Next time perhaps you'll have some luck but this post, mister, ain't worth a puck.

     Posted by chinpoko at 07/25/2008 @ 8:05pm

148. but America has been a leader in equality, in provision of opportunity.

     Posted by pete kent at 07/25/2008 @ 10:24am

     well,

     i bet the comanche disagree.

     Posted by frosty zoom at 07/25/2008 @ 11:25pm

149. My people came from Germany...

     Posted by JOMAMMA at 07/25/2008 @ 10:30am

     MULTICULTURAL THREAT!

     Posted by frosty zoom at 07/25/2008 @ 11:29pm

150. Which international laws are you talking about? And when did I vote for the people who enacted such laws?

     •••••••• Article VI

     All debts contracted and engagements entered into, before the adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the Confederation.

     This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding. •••••••••••

     This country should obey 'laws' enacted by 'leaders' of the 'world community' in the UN, most of which leaders are unelected thugs and murderers?

     •••••••• of 192 u.n. members, about 120 are democracies. you are the thug. •••••••••

     These are the people whose laws America should be obeying? Give me a break?

     •••••••• of course not. squish at will. •••••••••••

     "in invading another country to control their natural resources and enrich US defense-related corporations"

     •••••••• well, duh. •••••••••••

     Posted by pontificus at 07/25/2008 @ 11:17am

     Posted by frosty zoom at 07/25/2008 @ 11:37pm

151. Suffice it to say that Rush knows exactly what "moment" it is.

     Posted by pontificus at 07/25/2008 @ 11:42am

     glad to see you've improved your sources.

     Posted by frosty zoom at 07/25/2008 @ 11:41pm

152. And since waterboarding does not harm anyone physically, but is psychological coercion, it is highly debatable whether it even qualifies as torture.----

     Posted by pontificus at 07/25/2008 @ 11:17am

     god is frowning.

     Posted by frosty zoom at 07/25/2008 @ 11:43pm

153. Obama worshippers who have become convinced that he will usher in a second European wave of socialism.

     Posted by lvliberty1 at 07/25/2008 @ 1:24pm

     look out! look out! pink elephants all about!

     Posted by frosty zoom at 07/25/2008 @ 11:49pm

154. America--you need to choose!

     Don't buy into their fear machine.

     McCain does not put his country first, he puts his play for power first and that is squarely in the back-pockets of lobbyists.

     Obama's position has not changed. He will pull out our troops RESPONSIBLY. Unlike the REPUBLICANS who got us into this money pit.

     McCain will begin paying for this war by denying American citizens the federal funds that they have paid into. But paying for mercenary soldiers at three times what our service men and women make is OK? Sure, as long as we vote to stop expanded benefits for our beloved soldiers, neglect VA hospitals, ignore healthcare and our crumbling infrastructure and siphon our tax dollars to KBR and Blackwater.

     This mess was made by REPUBLICANS exploiting our national tragedy by claiming that anyone who did not go along with their LIES FOR A WAR OF CHOICE were unpatriotic.

     To think that more of the McSame would be good for America is to sell out your country. This would be a dangerous road to go down. You are talking about TRUSTING individuals who lied us into war. And if your of the mind to say that Mccain is not the same as Bush, then why does he have the same people running his campaign?

     Republican leadership is corrupt. They have proven it again and again. Watergate; Iran/Contra; Savings and Loans; Keating Five, Abramoff, subprime loans, the list goes on and on. What about DeLay's corruption; how about Frist; Libby; and yes, what about Cheney? How much evidence do you all need?

     McCain voted AGAINST waterboarding being designated as torture; AGAINST the new and improved GI bill; he plans on reducing the deficit by halting earmarks, when earmarks fund our infrastructure! Yes, our hard earned tax dollars can pour into Halliburton/KBR and Blackwater, but our bridges--no way!

     Open your eyes.

     McCain is all lies and lacks the cogent fortitude to string together 5 sentences for the press, how is he going to put together a plan for the 21st century?

     I'll tell you how--corporate puppet masters.

     Do you want a competent 21st century leader (one that can log himself on), or a puppet?

     Your choice. PLEASE AMERICA, please, please, please, don't blow it a third time.

     Posted by PrairieDeb at 07/25/2008 @ 11:52pm

155. Posted by DogT3 at 07/25/2008 @ 3:24pm

     eek!

     Posted by frosty zoom at 07/25/2008 @ 11:55pm

156. Trucks won't go on wind and sun either.

     Posted by DogT3 at 07/25/2008 @ 4:45pm

     oil is a finite resource.

     Posted by frosty zoom at 07/25/2008 @ 11:57pm

157. Going by the numerous responses - criticism - of Barack Obama's historic unifying speech at the Victory Column, it seems that many of the victimised Americans - by Bush's administration - are yet to come to terms with the blessing that they have in fact been endowed upon with a genuine leader like Barack Obama to inhabit the White House as their 44th president!

     Take your time, guys. The world has already witnessed - and accepted - the arrival of Barack Obama as a potential global leader. You too will start feeling proud of him very soon :)

     Posted by AnjuChandel at 07/26/2008 @ 12:50am

158. It's kinda late, and I wanna make sure I read this right. Did FRANK tell BRUNOWE to do his homework?

     Posted by onetime at 07/26/2008 @ 01:34am

159. Kool-Aid was invented by Edwin Perkins and his wife Kitty in Hastings, Nebraska, USA. Its predecessor was a liquid concentrate called Fruit Smack.

     fruit smack?

     hahahaha

     Posted by frosty zoom at 07/26/2008 @ 09:11am

160. actually,

     the jonestown folks drank flavor aid.

     http://www.jelsert.com/products_flavoraid.asp

     Posted by frosty zoom at 07/26/2008 @ 09:12am

161. Obama is totally inspiring, like a preacher or an inspirational speaker. (This is why all the jokes about Obamessiah....for a hilarious satire, see Gerard Baker's at http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/gerard_baker/article 4392846.ece)

     But his policy positions aren't convincing.

     For instance, he has been asked how he's going to pay for his health care plan, and his answer is, raise taxes on the rich (defined as those making $200,000 or more per year.) He even recently said that he wants the plan to cover illegal aliens. (Mmmmkay, let's give 'em more reasons to risk their lives, sufficating in the back of smugglers' trucks.) But the numbers don't add up. He just makes it up as he goes along.

     McCain may be old, and he may be stiff reading a TelePrompter, but Daddy ain't gonna lie to ya, or promise what he knows is complete BS.

     I got kids. I'm not given the country away for a politician's feel good moment in front of a gaping crowd.

     "We are the ones we're waiting for." Is he serious? Boys and girls, they will chew him up on the Hill. And I ain't even talkin about Conservatives. I'm talkin about the dealshitters in his own party.

     They will have Obama by the gonads. Some of the party elders are just waiting to show him what for (for a preview, see Jesse Jackson acting out the gesture of a shiv, "I'd like to cut out his nuts out."

     They will do this, even as they're smiling at his side.

     Posted by DogT3 at 07/26/2008 @ 10:10am

162. FEAR fuliness

     Posted by hsuBfools at 07/26/2008 @ 2:15pm

163. McCain may be old, and he may be stiff reading a TelePrompter, but Daddy ain't gonna lie to ya, or promise what he knows is complete BS.

     are you sure?

     mr. mccain seems to have limited understanding of many issues.

     does expressing an opinion based on ignorance count as lying?

     Posted by frosty zoom at 07/26/2008 @ 2:22pm

164. "mr. mccain seems to have limited understanding of many issues."

     Frosty, c'mon. Give the man some credit for defying Bush, defying Rumsfeld, defying the polls, and urging what become the successful strategy in Iraq.

     Part of the surge as imagined by Petraeus was to "clear and hold" rather than go back to base camp. His officers and senior non-coms drank endless cups of tea with Suni sheiks in dinky villages all over Anbar, convincing them that the American military would have their back if the stood up to Al Qaeda.

     Obama even told an audience (I think it was during the Miami debate, forget which one) that the tide was turned because the village sheiks were listening to Democrats on the Hill threatening to pulling troops out. If anything, it was the opposite. They were emboldened by assurances that we would not stab them in the back by leaving.

     Obama's statement was embarrassing. As if these people living in huts made of mud and sand were following the play by play in Congress.

     Up until that moment, I was impressed by Obama. But that was such a revealing piece of ignorance, and the ease with which he said it told me he really had no clue as to how wrong he was.

     Now, it seems, he has to stick to his story, come hell or high water, for fear of conceding that McCain was right about this and he was just. flat. wrong.

     He complains that "I couldn't have known."

     Well, I beg to differ, sir. How did McCain know? Experience, ladies and germs. And listening to the GOG--the Guys on the Ground. Say what you will about other issues, but when it comes to military issues, he knows this cold.

     "I couldn't have known." Lame. And not acceptible from a president.

     Posted by DogT3 at 07/26/2008 @ 4:44pm

165. DogT3

     "Boys and girls, they will chew him up on the Hill. And I ain't even talkin about Conservatives. I'm talkin about the dealshitters in his own party."

     Don't you remember? They tried that already. It was called THE PRIMARY, otherwise known as THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN!

     I do agree that some peoples expectations may be a bit overboard, for we have many problems due to the siphoning of our national treasure. We simply do not have any wiggle room with our finances. I honestly feel that that was the plan with the Republicans any way. They did that with Reagan. They always leave us with a HUGE deficit and at least a scandal or two.

     Obama's been vetted like no other. They now try to slash him for what anyone who is remotely connected to him says. Like the Jesse Jackson thing--it was covered as Obama's problem for two solid weeks when PHIL GRAMM called the American people WHINERS!! Remember what happened with the Rev. Wright comment? Nothing remotely compared to that for McCain's press on that.

     There is no doubt that this America has some tough issues to handle, but I'm looking for a problem SOLVER not a doddering puppet of corporate interests. Yeah, some will dig in their heals, but I think the majority will see an opportunity to improve our standing in the world and begin to reset our priorities to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness--not nation building.

     And by the way, McCain lies. Remember his little walk through an Iraqi market, trying to make like it was just a stroll in any old American rural fair. He was trying to deceive. That is lying, plain and simple. And he has many other lies under his belt.

     America don't make the same mistake three times.

     Posted by PrairieDeb at 07/26/2008 @ 5:04pm

166. Jan 2007: Obama "I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse." So manifestly wrong was Obama about the surge that his spokesmen are saying he always believed it would reduce violence, and earlier this month his campaign removed negative references to it on his website. Yea, terrific wisdom Senator.

     Posted by hughm8 at 07/26/2008 @ 6:35pm

167. Posted by DogT3 at 07/26/2008 @ 4:44pm

     Frosty, c'mon. Give the man some credit for defying Bush, defying Rumsfeld, defying the polls, and urging what become the successful strategy in Iraq.

     ••••••••••• iraq should never have been invaded. "security" is better because the sunni have been driven out of baghdad.

     Part of the surge as imagined by Petraeus was to "clear and hold" rather than go back to base camp. His officers and senior non-coms drank endless cups of tea with Suni sheiks in dinky villages all over Anbar, convincing them that the American military would have their back if the stood up to Al Qaeda.

     •••••••••• al qaeda?!?!? what a joke. maybe 200 guys.

     Obama even told an audience (I think it was during the Miami debate, forget which one) that the tide was turned because the village sheiks were listening to Democrats on the Hill threatening to pulling troops out. If anything, it was the opposite. They were emboldened by assurances that we would not stab them in the back by leaving.

     •••••••••• you can't stay forever. the power will be grabbed.

     Obama's statement was embarrassing. As if these people living in huts made of mud and sand were following the play by play in Congress. Up until that moment, I was impressed by Obama. But that was such a revealing piece of ignorance, and the ease with which he said it told me he really had no clue as to how wrong he was.

     ••••••••••• obama's is worse, true. but mccain is worsererest.

     Now, it seems, he has to stick to his story, come hell or high water, for fear of conceding that McCain was right about this and he was just. flat. wrong. He complains that "I couldn't have known."

     •••••••••• does mr. mccain have ANY idea how the fed operates and how the devaluation of the dollar is paying for this mess?

     Well, I beg to differ, sir. How did McCain know? Experience, ladies and germs. And listening to the GOG--the Guys on the Ground. Say what you will about other issues, but when it comes to military issues, he knows this cold.

     •••••••••• the u.s. is broke. the only military issue you should be worried about is stopping wasting your great great great great grandchildren's future.

     "I couldn't have known." Lame. And not acceptible from a president.

     •••••••••• is murder?

     Posted by frosty zoom at 07/26/2008 @ 6:42pm

168. It's funny to me that Sen. McCain is still attacking Sen. Obama for not admitting the 'surge' was successful. Sen. Obama has said repeatedly that our troops always complete every task we ask of them, and has never questioned the ability of our military, only adding that many other agents figure in to the level of stability we see in present day Iraq. Sen. McCain considers this a bad judgment call on Obama's part. What's funny is that Sen. McCain, as well as most of the nation it seems, has forgotten the worst judgment decision of all, that he, along with many others in our Congress made, which was to invade Iraq in the first place. When will he admit that crucial mistake in judgment that he made? Regardless of political interests, we as a nation can not afford to forget that decision. So unless Sen. McCain still believes the Iraqis have wmd's, or that their government worked with al Qadea and supported them in their attacks on our country,or that Iraq was such an immediate threat to the U.S. that we had to redirect our attention from the real culprits of our tragedy, who our still free and growing, he owes the American people an apology for this very badly misguided judgment call. Unfortunatly Sen. McCain, this was the most important test of this entire 'War on Terror' saga, and you failed, while Sen. Obama was head-of-class. So the next time Sen. McCain decides to flaunt his 'great judgment', just remember why any decision ever had to be made with our troops in Iraq. Remember why Sen. McCain thought it was so important we invade Iraq instead of finishing what we started in Afghanastan (not on the border of Iraq, by the way), and the 'judgment' he used in that decision. With the truths about statements supporting the Iraqi invasion completely destroying their credibility, what was his judgment based on?

     Posted by mikeba at 07/26/2008 @ 9:22pm

169. Frankgritz 1st Post:

     He did no such thing. He was calling for team work. Big surprise you don't get that.

     Please America, not again--not three times.

     Posted by PrairieDeb at 07/28/2008 @ 02:03am