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RedditWe've spent the last six weeks speculating what will happen in Pennsylvania. But for all its hype, the April 22 contest, now finally a week away, isn't likely to significantly alter the Obama-Clinton race.
Short of an upset by Obama, which seems unlikely given the pounding he's received over the last five days by Clinton, McCain and the conservative media, the campaign will move on to Indiana and North Carolina on May 6, and on and on from there. Clinton will of course score a PR bounce by winning the Keystone state, but the mathematics of clinching the nomination won't change much. "Clinton, even with a victory in Pennsylvania, would make only a small incremental gain against Obama's overall lead in the delegate race," Congressional Quarterly predicted today.
Obama's lead in pledged delegates remains virtually insurmountable. "[Clinton] isn't going to win at the polls," Jonathan Chait of The New Republic wrote last month in a provocative column. "Barack Obama has a lead of 144 pledged delegates. That may not sound like a lot in a 4,000-delegate race, but it is. Clinton's Ohio win reduced that total by only nine. She would need 15 more Ohios to pull even with Obama. She isn't going to do much to dent, let alone eliminate, his lead."
Based on these numbers, Chait goes on to make the case for why Clinton should exit the race for the good of her party. (Chait's argument, incidentally, has been strengthened by the events of the last week, with Clinton and McCain sharing the same talking points against Obama.)
One's perception of the race still hinges on whether you think the contest is about math or momentum, as Tim Noah of Slate has chronicled. Before Iowa, the press was all about momentum--whomever won the early states would go on to capture the nomination. Three months later, before Ohio, the press was all about math--and Obama's string of victories since Super Tuesday, they concluded, made it impossible for Clinton to win.
After Ohio and Texas, the media doesn't seem to know what to believe, the "arithmecrats" or the "momentucrats," as Noah calls the respective groups. Most political reporters I know privately believe Obama is all-but-certain to be the Democratic nominee, no matter what Clinton does. Yet they continue to cover the contest, in Pennsylvania and elsewhere, as if it's a dead heat.
The math has favored Obama for the past two months and will likely continue to. The momentum swings back and forth. Obama had it after Clinton's Bosnia gaffe and the Mark Penn scandal. Clinton had it after Obama's Jeremiah Wright scandal and small-town gaffe last week. These controversies, real or invented, last for a week or so and then give way to something else.
The momentum impacts the math, particularly when it comes to influencing the votes of superdelegates who continue to (maddeningly) sit on the sidelines. But the math is ultimately what matters, and will decide when this never-ending primary finally comes to a close and that other race, against John McCain, finally begins.
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"But for all its hype, the April 22 contest, now finally a week away, isn't likely to significantly alter the Obama-Clinton race."
Exactly...only two scenarios would change that. One, as Mr Berman mentioned, would be an Obama victory in Pennsylvania (if by 1/2 a % point)....Hillary would be through, no more "Big State" excuses left.
OR...if Obama lost by some MONUMENTAL fraction (like 25-30% to her 70-75%), which could upset the delegate and popular vote count signifincantly.
Neither likely. She'll win it...but not "gigantic" and the fight goes on.
Meanwhile, the REAL contest becomes one of two IDEAS--
1. "Hillary wins the Big States...best suited to take on McCain....Obama too liberal or too..uh..something to win!"
2. "Obama won the delegates, the popular votes, and the number of states. He fires up people, where HRC doesn't"
And which idea the Super Delegates choose as more worthy. And which RISK they are willing to see as less risky-
1. Pick Obama, and the Hillary folks might bolt for McCain out of spite or to try to give her 2012 (aka the "FRANKGRITS Plan")?
2. Pick Hillary, and watch Cora Currier and Peter Rothberg's 'youth vote' (and perhaps a BIG chunk of the African-American vote) stay home...or even vote for Big Ralph?
Posted by Mask at 04/15/2008 @ 2:29pm
MATHMENTUM!
Posted by ibbleblibble at 04/15/2008 @ 2:33pm
and suddenly the passage of time stopped.
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/15/2008 @ 2:38pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 04/15/2008 @ 2:33pm
Ask your doctor if "Mathmentum" may be right for you. Pregnant women, nursing mothers, infants, toddlers, young children, adolescents, sexually active adults, sexually inactive adults, pre-menopausal women, post-menopausal women, men at risk of prostate troubles, and the elderly should not take "Mathmentum".
Posted by Mask at 04/15/2008 @ 2:55pm
Posted by MASK 04/15/2008 @ 2:55pm
save 25% when you order from canada......
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/15/2008 @ 3:05pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 04/15/2008 @ 3:05pm
Discontinue using "Mathmentum" if any of the following side effects occur...
nausea dizziness incontinence enuresis skin rash hair loss hair gain diarrhea headaches dry mouth failure to reach orgasm liver failure heart failure pineal gland failure systemic failure spots ringing of the ears sneezing runny nose reverse peristalsis dimensional shifts clamminess of the hands or feet hallucinations yellow fingernails the "heebie-jeebies" muscle or back aches The Ripley blurry vision tingling in the extremities fever dehydration hyperglycemia ketonuria visions of Mother Abigail
or scalp itch
Posted by Mask at 04/15/2008 @ 3:23pm
The superdelegates suck! I'm so tired of that word and those people. Make a fuckin' decision already. This whole campaign process just increases my joy for politics....not. Jeez, I swear, I hate this whole process. If not for me knowing the importance of voting, of me having my right to vote as well as using that right, I would refrain from voting altogether.
Posted by k330k at 04/15/2008 @ 3:30pm
Posted by EULER 04/15/2008 @ 3:43pm
You're preaching to the wrong pew-sitter, EULER.
I never bought the "youth vote will change everything" theories of Peter Rothberg and Ms Currier....check their previous postings on it. I never thought they were a "defining" voter bloc...
but, they do exist and if they stay home or vote Big Ralph, they do make SOME impact.
She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed doesn't inspire them, and her "McCain-lite"ness will likely turn them off and ratchet up their cynicism.
Now, if she somehow wins in November, and shows her Administration to be as ham-fisted and dim-witted as her campaign...they might get revved up again in 2012 for a primary challenge.
But again, they're not the "power bloc" some thing...just a small but noticeable component.
Posted by Mask at 04/15/2008 @ 3:50pm
Posted by MASK 04/15/2008 @ 3:23pm
i heard hillary's been using mathmemtum for "offbrand" purposes.
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/15/2008 @ 3:50pm
Posted by EULER 04/15/2008 @ 3:46pm |
You predicting Hillary wins PA by 20-25%?
Posted by Mask at 04/15/2008 @ 3:50pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 04/15/2008 @ 3:50pm
I heard she brought peace to Ireland with Mathmentum....and had to duck and run for cover as Serbians lobbed Mathmentum at her in Tuzla!
Posted by Mask at 04/15/2008 @ 3:52pm
Posted by EULER 04/15/2008 @ 3:51pm
like Hillary trying to speak with a Southern accent in a black church?
Posted by EULER 04/15/2008 @ 3:51pm
Got it saved...thanks.
Posted by Mask at 04/15/2008 @ 3:53pm
Is the pope really a superdelegate?
Only Billary know for sure.
Desperation breeds ... bitterness ... and grasping for supernatural help ... but, we hope, not the gun this time. Just the figurative knife in the back, that Billary have been wielding so energetically.
Posted by sloper at 04/15/2008 @ 3:57pm
Posted by SLOPER 04/15/2008 @ 3:57pm
Hey, by the time of the Convention....CHELSEA will be a "Super Delegate" according the Hillary Cultists.
Think about it....Hillary is qualified to be President, because she was First Lady. Your average Super is nothing more than a Congressman, Governor, even ex-officials.
So why not the First Daughter under the Clinton Years?
heheh
Posted by Mask at 04/15/2008 @ 4:13pm
The Democrats may yet snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Posted by RAGGEDSTEP at 04/15/2008 @ 4:17pm
Posted by RAGGEDSTEP 04/15/2008 @ 4:17pm
Possibly. Unfortunately, the "solution" satisfies nobody.
Just have to hope that the Nominee can "fix it" between August and Nov. 4th.
Posted by Mask at 04/15/2008 @ 4:28pm
OMG.....ROFLMAO (as the kids say)....
FRANK has finally flipped. NOT ONLY am I an "employee of 'The Nation'"....BUT, I'm a "Communist" and...yes...."The Nation" is "Communistic"!
(my bolds)
"You've proved to everyone here that you are an employee of The Nation. The Nation has been critisized by rightwingers as being a Communist publication. Communists do indeed collect evidence to use agains their enemies at a later date. Communist Russia was famous for it. You'd do well there but it looks like The Nation finds your services useful as well. You're not fooling anyone. It's time to go away and come back under another name like some of your buddies have. I'll still see through you."-----Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/15/2008 @ 4:26pm
OBAMA FALLOUT: THE BACKLASH AGAINST THE BACKLASH ...Posted by Ari Berman at 04/14/2008 @ 1:41pm
Posted by Mask at 04/15/2008 @ 4:37pm
Posted by MASK 04/15/2008 @ 4:37pm
Frank isn't even worth dealing with. He is completely nuts. He thinks anyone who isn't doesn't agree with him HAS to be working for the Nation.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/15/2008 @ 4:45pm
Posted by CCCOMFO1 04/15/2008 @ 4:45pm
No, now that's not completely fair. He grants that SOME might be poor, ignorant fools who he will 'educate' out of the kindness of his heart to change their ways and either support Her Nibs or Maverick John.
But, failing to abide by FG's teachings, means that you're "stupid" or "a child" or a "Republican operative" or yes, at the end...a "Communist employee for the Communist 'Nation' magazine"!
heheh
Posted by Mask at 04/15/2008 @ 4:53pm
Is there any point in trying to reason with Frank "my white boy is home now, so fuck-off" Grits?
Posted by Malcontent at 04/15/2008 @ 5:01pm
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/15/2008 @ 5:11pm
You quote the times which has endorsed Hillary, making them biased toward Hillary. So it's fine to quote someone who has a Hillary bias but not an Obama one. It's also funny you say that about the supers when a lot of the ones pledged for Hillary are now turning coat.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/15/2008 @ 5:14pm
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/15/2008 @ 5:12pm
Sorry I forgot we should all bow down to the almighty Frank. You make yourself look more and more pompous and insane the more often you post.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/15/2008 @ 5:15pm
Communists do indeed collect evidence to use agains their enemies at a later date.
hillary is a communist?
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/15/2008 @ 5:17pm
Frank isn't even worth dealing with. He is completely nuts. He thinks anyone who isn't doesn't agree with him HAS to be working for the Nation.
Posted by CCCOMFO1 04/15/2008 @ 4:45pm
i'm an intern.
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/15/2008 @ 5:19pm
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/15/2008 @ 5:15pm
Yeah voters in Florida and Michigan can count. We will hold another primary where both contenders will run in those states and the people will vote again and all their votes will count. What are you afraid of sissy?
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/15/2008 @ 5:36pm
Posted by MASK 04/15/2008 @ 2:55pm | ignore this person
MATHMENTUM! APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE GUT! (of 50 foot queeny's campaign! lol)
Posted by ibbleblibble at 04/15/2008 @ 5:36pm
You're fine with offering solutions that help Hillary only and calling everyone sissy's for not agreeing. But when someone offers a perfectly fair solution of running the primaries again and letting the people vote on a race that both contenders are on the ballot like Michigan and where both contenders run you are all of a sudden screaming foul. Are you afraid Hillary will lose and that why you don't want the states to vote again. If she is so inevitable and such a better candidate why are you SO against her running in the states for real and not just voting according to name recognition or a lack of other options?
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/15/2008 @ 5:38pm
Posted by EULER 04/15/2008 @ 3:46pm
You know what they say about ASSUME. And a two digit win - let's not even get into your figure in the 20s - only demonstrates that you don't have a good grasp on this race.
Posted by EULER 04/15/2008 @ 3:51pm
Yeah, let's do that - although I don't really see the point in waiting that long. You're as wrong now as you will be then. It will be single digits, and she still could lose it.
Posted by srjenkins at 04/15/2008 @ 6:03pm
Posted by CCCOMFO1 04/15/2008 @ 4:45pm
Great advice.
Posted by srjenkins at 04/15/2008 @ 6:07pm
Don't think that the spin cycle doesn't wash brains and smooth out the wrinkles and crenulations? It does.
Example: yesterday, at a press conference, one MSM operative, William Dean Stanton, Chair of the AP Board, asked the junior Senator from Illinois whether he thought it prudent to redeploy troops to Afghanistan to counter the resurgent Taliban as well as "OBAMA BIN LADIN and Al Qaeda."
Yeah, he really said it that way. It's on tape, and it's not the only instance.
It just shows what Ailes and Murdoch have always said: you repeat a stupid, obvious, outrageous falsehood often enough, it becomes accepted fact.
(Or was that Himler and Goebbels?)
Posted by goyadad at 04/15/2008 @ 6:32pm
"He [Obama] knows that minorities will never succeed in today's American meritocracy."
Posted by MARKCANYON 04/15/2008 @ 3:38pm
Yeah, that is like so perceptive to perceive. After all, it was in the Meritocracy that is America wherein an intellectual giant, a genius at foreign policy, a swami of economic strategy like one GEORGE W. BUSH of Texas (a privileged white male, by the way) rose to rule over these here United States of America as Prisydint 'n Cummander 'n Cheef!
That's proof enough, isn't it? Only those of great merit succeed in this here Merytokrasy in 'Merika, like ya know. See?
[Sorry, folks. It was just so obvious, I couldn't resist.]
Posted by goyadad at 04/15/2008 @ 6:45pm
Posted by GOYADAD 04/15/2008 @ 6:45
You make a good point. George Bush was a C student who never did anything extraordinary in his life other that come out of a woman who was married to the President. He ran a few companies that failed and was governor for a while. Not even a Senator for God's sake.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/15/2008 @ 7:16pm
Let's see, what are the non-issue issues that Team Clinton has tried to hose up against the competition? . . .
1) The Scandalous Rev. Wright Kurfuffle: the Right Rev. it seems, has the golldurn gall to say that everything ain't right with America. Gotta be Obama's fault, doncha think? Why does BO hate America?
2) The Great Lapel Pin Controversy: Obama, unlike Brand X Y & Z candidates, refused to wear a flag pin on his lapel. Again, why does this closet Moslem hate America? (I think is about time that Congress passed legislation--maybe Red White and Blue PATRIOT PIN & TEST ACT FOR TRUE AMERICAN LOYALISTS that disqualifies anyone from public office that does not have a flap lapel pin worn constantly, backed up with a flag tatoo on their right butt-cheek.)
3) The Typically Angry Black Person's "Typical White Woman" Comment and Ensuing Mass-Media Massacree (in Three-Part Harmony): It seems that as a Black American, Obama has had the unhopeful audacity to opine that white Americans have nurtured some fairly consistent preconceptions about Black Americans they have not ever met or interacted with. Damn! Why does Obama hate White America (or is that a pleonastic expression?)
4) And yes, The Shocking 'Blue-Collar Rust-Belt Americans Are "Bitter" and into "Guns" and "Religion" a Bit More Intensely Than Other Identifiable Regional and Ethnic Demographics' Imbroglio: Yeowie! This is beyond all beyonds! What an outrage! What patent, flagrant, open, and manifest reverse-retrograde-counter-anti-non-inclusive RACISM! Gasp! Never mind that it is simply repeating the polling data that was given to him by the professional demographers hired by his and all the other campaigns. This here uppity N-word fella has the gall to talk about it publicly! (Well, sorta semi-publicly at a fundraiser arrranged by private supporters in the "Satanic Axis of All That Is Evil and Immoral"--San Francisco CA!) Why oh why does this man hate White Male WASP Republican Fascistic America (it's the only REAL America, after all--says so right in the Constytooshun) and why are we still permitting him to speak in public?
This madness must end, now!
Posted by goyadad at 04/15/2008 @ 7:25pm
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/15/2008 @ 5:11pm
(Wisconsin accent) "Mr. Berman, have you now....or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party? We know that your little 'magazine' 'collects information' on loyal Americans by saving what they say and re-posting it showing how we contradict ourselves in service of The Queen....would STALIN do any less?....ANSWER THE QUESTION, Mr. Berman...none of your Red subtleties....The Committee already has you on record as being biased against Her Worshipfulness...do you deny that, sir?"----The FRANK Un-American Anti-Hillary Activities Committee of 2008
Posted by Mask at 04/15/2008 @ 7:38pm
Posted by GOYADAD 04/15/2008 @ 6:45pm
GOYA...MARKCANYON is a freakin' neo-Nazi! Real deal...no "Godwin's".
Posted by Mask at 04/15/2008 @ 7:40pm
MARKCANYON, wtf are you talking about?
White people = have ability, compete fairly Colored people = have no ability, mooch off whiteys?
Israel = ability and competence Arabs= have no ability, hate Israelis for having ability?
Jesus, I didn't know people made such stupid racial generalizations in this day and age. It's like 100 years ago when people believed people living in hot tropical climes were naturally inclined to be lazy.
Wtf, markcanyon.
Posted by freeminded at 04/15/2008 @ 7:44pm
And this radical conservative view that progressives want to destroy competition and fairness in this country is absurd. But then, that's why it's called the "radical conservative view", innit?
Posted by freeminded at 04/15/2008 @ 7:47pm
no "Godwin's".
Posted by MASK 04/15/2008 @ 7:40pm
Mask,
I think I managed to avoid invoking Godwin's Law by not mentioning the Then-Chancellor of Germany by name. Only some lower level functionaries in the government of that era.
A technicality, I realize, but there's a reason these technicalities exist--to give people like me some cover and "plausible deniability." (OOOPS! Did I accidentally trigger Olscamp's Third American Corollary to Godwin's Law by using a phrase from the Nixon Regime? My bad. Sorry.)
Posted by goyadad at 04/15/2008 @ 7:48pm
Posted by GOYADAD 04/15/2008 @ 7:48pm
No, no, no. I'm saying that for my purposes, that I'm not using "Nazi" hyperbole.
MARKCANYON is an ACTUAL neo-Nazi, who has called the Holocaust "one bright moment in history".
Posted by Mask at 04/15/2008 @ 7:51pm
Wtf, markcanyon.
Posted by FREEMINDED 04/15/2008 @ 7:44pm
Wtf, markcanyon, Wtf indeed.
(As the poet wrote, so movingly and so profoundly: "free your mind and the rest will follow, / be colorblind, don't be so shallow")
Posted by goyadad at 04/15/2008 @ 7:55pm
MARKCANYON is an ACTUAL neo-Nazi, who has called the Holocaust "one bright moment in history".
Posted by MASK 04/15/2008 @ 7:51pm
Check. Roger. Gotcha. Totally grok that. Thanks for the clear-up.
But you know, that whole skinhead, faux-Gestappo, leather-skull-and-swastika aesthetic is a massive turn-on in a surprising number of circles. No wonder Mark-boy clings to it with such aplomb and conviction. It's like so post-punk radical chic.
Posted by goyadad at 04/15/2008 @ 8:03pm
Getting back to the campaign for a minute . . .
The more I think about it, the an better idea it is to demand flag pins of all our candidates. Here's how we could pitch it:
Neidermeyer: (to Obama) All right then! Report to the stable tonight and every night at 1800 hours. And [not] without that pledge pin! Do you understand? Flag on lapel at all times! You got that, maggot?
Posted by goyadad at 04/15/2008 @ 8:17pm
Check out the article "Jerry Smith and Messiah College" http://savagepolitics.com/?p=285 and "Back Room Deals" http://savagepolitics.com/?p=279
http://www.savagepolitics.com Their articles are like nothing I have read in any of the current media outlets. It is brilliant writing plus it offers a great community in which to discuss. The editor actually takes time to answer and the political humor section is awesome!!!
Posted by elsylee at 04/15/2008 @ 8:22pm
BTW, Reuters/Bloomberg has Hillary up by 5% over Obama in Pennsylvania, with 13% un-decided.
Seems even if Her Nibs wins ALL the undecided and holds her 5....EULER will be short 2% in his prediction.
(and she WON'T get ALL the un-decided!)
Posted by Mask at 04/15/2008 @ 9:38pm
Just curious..........
Posted by JOMAMMA 04/15/2008 @ 10:57pm
"For one bright moment that came to view well enough in Europe when there were no people of color to confuse the picture. Then the right people, for once, were locked up, and put on Death Row, and sent to gas chamber. For a short moment the picture was clear and honest folks knew what to do......Working people must come to their senses. We must defend the innocent against the true enemy. We need a prisoner exchange: Blacks out, Jews in."-----Posted by MARKCANYON 10/06/2007 @ 1:15pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/15/2008 @ 11:11pm
As all the undecided... for whom these blogs are writ
To pollsters unconfided... their partison pearls of wit
Suspense predictions wryly... and wrongly, as we've seen
We wrestle with the wily... and waltz with warbling spleen
But common sense is king now... where fashion's unrequited
Pennsylvania shows us how... with all the undecided
Posted by ttr at 04/15/2008 @ 11:17pm
more filth:
Eugenics is the idea that heredity matters. The stuff parents and grandparents are made of works on in their offspring. Eugenics grew out of Darwinism. Darwin admired the work of his relative, Frank Dalton (?) the founder of Eugenics. Charles' bulldog, Thomas Huxley was a eugenics enthusiast. His son Leonard headed the British Eugenics Society. Those people were capable of being wrong, but they were not given to rooting in garbage.
Eugenics, like racism was for the longest time, plain common sense. Even Plato studied and admired the way the Spartans kept their breed healthy and fierce. Racism and eugenics were supporterd by the best people and remained in good standing, until the Hitler period. Then Nazi excesses drove both into disrepute.
But that won't last. Fashions, by definition, change, and PC is a fashion. It might govern fools forever, and everyone for a while. But sensible people will before long rebel. Who still thinks, heavy metal is music and that rap artists are artists? Morons, only morons.
The times they are a changing. In my father's time Black help in hotels and restaurants was restricted to bootblacks and perhaps busboys. When I was a boy they worked everywhere as waiters and doormen, etc. But no more. Latinos have driven Blacks out of those trades. Now even a Black parking attendant is a rarity. Because, while Blacks can be very courteous and friendly, Latinos are more reliable, more capable.
Sure, Blacks are in more positions of power nowadays. And there are Black neighborhoods with a higher average income than some White neighborhoods. And Blacks of achievement are endlessly showcased by the media. Yet the generality of Blacks are falling ever further behind. Relative to the White norm they are today worse off than 30 years ago. And back then, as the ghettos burned, they looked longingly to the livable places ghettos had been 30 years earlier. Just so are Zimbabwe's Blacks now nostalgic for life in racist Rhodesia. In short, in America, under Black mayors, congressmen, aldermen, judges, teachers and equality legislation, and millions of make-work jobs stuffing good wages into Black pockets, the inequality truth remains undeniable.
So too with the Jews. The loathing and detestation of that race is again patent across most of the world. For the moment it is masked as anti-Zionism. But in fact, it is Jew-hate, not least in a Europe still sensitive to the Nazi memory. Back then those craven people collapsed before an able nation that dared to tackle the world. In the Middle East Europeans see it again, a handful consistently beating 50 to 1 odds. Is there a better demonstration of the truth of race?
Jews are identified as Nazis for good reason. For good reasons the Jew's are the foremost promoters of the PC muzzle. But resentment of Jews is irrepressible. Before long the word, racism will cease to cow and it will again become possible to defend oneself with unashamed anti-semitism. That is relatively speaking, "eminent".
Posted by MARKCANYON 10/19/2007 @ 04:20am
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/15/2008 @ 11:23pm
Crabwalk, you're crawling interference for Waxman, and Waxman waxes indignant over thievery in Iraq to sidetrack a real examination. He wants to point at Maliki and away from the real source of the corruption, his own brethren.
Posted by MARKCANYON 10/06/2007 @ 3:02pm
hmmmm?
brethren, huh?
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/15/2008 @ 11:30pm
But you shy away from Waxman. You don't want to accept that he too, just like Mr. Chimp is doing his job, for his brethren. You are not being consistent. Suddenly you are blind to the writing on the wall. You are either stupid, or playing stupid. Or are you one of them yourself!
Posted by MARKCANYON 10/06/2007 @ 5:53pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/15/2008 @ 11:30pm
"You make a good point. George Bush was a C student who never did anything extraordinary in his life other that come out of a woman who was married to the President. He ran a few companies that failed and was governor for a while. Not even a Senator for God's sake."
Posted by CCCOMFO1 04/15/2008 @ 7:16pm
C3, you should never want a Senator or House Rep to be your President. They're too out of touch with the people and will make your life a lot more miserable then you think.
Posted by ACook at 04/15/2008 @ 11:36pm
for you j.m. and happy2 and frank and anybody else who is tempted to fall into the canyon of filth:
It isn't that there are too many people in jail, but that the wrong people are in jail. It isn't that Death Row is overcrowded. It's that the real killers, the real danger, the real enemies of humankind are running loose. We're gassing the wrong felons.
They have driven Blacks to desperation. They have exploited them, impoverished them, forced them into drugs, into mugging, into degradation. They don't want to spread the wealth. they don't want everybody to succeed, they don't want freedom and equality for all. For them, friendship and harmony between races is a danger. Because once white America stops hating Blacks, America will recognize the real enemy.
That's why the prisons are crammed with 13% of the population. That's why there is always some enemy of color. So that the true fiends, hiding behind a white skin, but with a black heart, won't be noticed.
For one bright moment that came to view well enough in Europe when there were no people of color to confuse the picture. Then the right people, for once, were locked up, and put on Death Row, and sent to gas chamber. For a short moment the picture was clear and honest folks knew what to do.
That gave the crooks a fright. That was when they hollered like stuck pigs and forced America into war, and bombed Europe to rubble. Then they decided to employ the American answer over there too, and gigantic waves of immigration from Turkey and Africa began to flood Europe. Now there too they have a distraction, fall guys to hate, the wrong people to persecute and jail. Now the fast talking swine are back to ruling the roost even in Russia.
That's the calculus. Find a scapegoat, a distraction, somebody to hate, keep putting em in jail, and keep the focus off the real culprits.
Working people must come to their senses. We must defend the innocent against the true enemy. We need a prisoner exchange: Blacks out, Jews in.
Posted by MARKCANYON 10/06/2007 @ 1:15pm
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/15/2008 @ 11:37pm
i bet the lord of the underworld's got a bunk bed in david berkowitz's room just waitin' for ol' marky.
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/15/2008 @ 11:43pm
The Zionists have suckered people of color into addiction. Where do you think Ecstasy comes from? Who do you think was an early experimenter in opiates, Sigi Freud, a Zionist uber alles, the inventor of screwing with people's minds.
First you had all those Zionist MDs writing prescriptions to get folks on drugs. Then they left em cold turkey. What do you think all those kindly Jews ministering to the poor up in Harlem were doing, playing Mother Theresa? They were feeding Blacks poison. They were screwing with their minds. They were feeding them into prisons. So that America had someone to hate that wasn't Jews. Can you understand that my man, my little man, my maladroit, mental retard?
The Left's gotta wise up. The Left has a responsibility to people of color. The Left has to realize who its true enemy is, who is always letting it down, why it is always failing. Though poor people and working people and non-Jews are way in the majority the Left is always failing. Why is that? Why doesn't equality work, why don't elections work, one man one vote work? Because someone, something is always working against the Left. Guess who? Who was always at the head of the Left?
The Jews, the Samuel Gompers (founder of the AFL), and the Sidney Hillmans (founder of the CIO). Who were always the biggest power brokers in govt? The Bernard Baruchs, the Jacob Javitses, the Lehrmans, the Morgenthaus.
Who are all the experts nowadays, the pollsters, the political advisers, the congressional staffers, the columnists, the pundits, the finessers and sharp dressers? Damn right, the Jews. If they are not sharp dressers themselves, they are in charge of dressing sharp. They took over the fashion business when they sold the garment industry to China. When not enough Blacks were going to jail in the 70s they instituted high heels for men's shoes so that the brothers couldn't run from the police. They got everybody coming and going. They got the army going to Iraq. While they are coming from Israel and Blacks going into the clink.
But how do you respond?
You ask: WTF are you implying? "It's all the jews fault"? Correct this presumption, (created by reading you post), if you can/ desire to.
I'm not implying nothing, I'm saying it straight out you dolt.
You ask: Who and what is driving Blacks into prisons? in Blacks going bad? Is it the Left, is it working people?
I'm saying it straight out, you moron. Unplug your ears. Why are you so amazed that people are finally catching on? Why are you so dense? Wake up. Rise and shine out of that moldy tent.
Posted by MARKCANYON 10/07/2007 @ 11:10am
jews, please! leave my mind alone.
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/15/2008 @ 11:49pm
oops, baaaad bolding!
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/15/2008 @ 11:50pm
FRANKGRITS 04/15/2008 @ 11:41pm
Smart politics says "Out with the old, and in with the smart"
Safe politics says "What do the people think?"
Sleep well, Frank...
Posted by ttr at 04/15/2008 @ 11:54pm
Damn, I mean I've had some bad days but...
Posted by winyahn at 04/15/2008 @ 11:57pm
Canyon's darkness shines through a good many of his posts and ad hominem attacks.
Posted by winyahn at 04/16/2008 @ 12:32am
Live and Let Live!
Posted by HAPPY2 04/16/2008 @ 12:07am
i wish no harm upon mr. canyon. in fact, i feel rather bad about having wished him a hellish roommate.
nonetheless, it is troubling to see some of my fellow typists swayed to gaze upon such hateful couplets with approval.
cow shit crafted into a disco ball is still cow shit.
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/16/2008 @ 02:34am
The Medi Political Pundits are about as Accurate as Weather men in Michigan. Rarely right. Only jobs you can be consistently wrong and Not lose your jobs. 'Opinions are like assholes - everyones got one'- except these guys use it to speak with. Being from the "buckle' of the 'rust Belt' MI I amazed by the people who are given a Microphone to speak- rea elitists who have no idea what the Average AmericaN is thinking or experiencing. Then again considering the absolute Idiots who are Propped up puppets in this 'Gov't' It really is no surprise. Nepatism runs rampant in Both.It's not what you know, or how intellegent your are- it's who you know and how easily they can manipulate you.Few exceptions-Mika B. certainly has earned her place as a real media/news person. Best so far Op Ed's Keith O (ruthlessly Honest) Rachael Maddow (You go girl, Your usually the smartest person in the debate) and Eugene Robinson. Not to mention the Real News people on PBS News Hour.Other then Countdown the rest are the 'Stupid stick' beating AmericaNs over the head 24/7
Posted by Purple girl at 04/16/2008 @ 06:59am
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/16/2008 @ 08:30am
As a capitalist oppressor of the proletariat, you shall fail.....I have spoken with Comrade vanden Heuvel and Comrade Nichols and the rest of the Politburo here at "The Nation"....our "KGB" ("Katrina Golden Bloggers") files are complete on you, imperialist swine, soon comes your re-education!
(heheh)
Posted by Mask at 04/16/2008 @ 08:56am
BTW....Gallup Reports-
Gallup Daily: Obama 51%, Clinton 40%----Both Democratic candidates have 46% to 44% margins over McCain----USA Election 2008 Gallup Daily Americas---Northern America
PRINCETON, NJ -- Barack Obama is maintaining his lead over Hillary Clinton among Democrats nationally in the latest Gallup Poll Daily tracking, with a 51% to 40% margin in the April 12-14 average.
Posted by Mask at 04/16/2008 @ 08:58am
Posted by PURPLE GIRL 04/16/2008 @ 06:59am
sonny eliot is never wrong!
Posted by frosty zoom at 04/16/2008 @ 09:11am
Last time I checked, the rules don't say anything about momentum. Also I'd say that both momentum and the math are in Obama's favor.
Posted by bridoc at 04/16/2008 @ 09:17am
It's over. But Billary are too bitter bitter bitter to acknowledge their loss.
Soon, soon they will exit, stage right, taking potshots at Obama all the way to the bank.
Posted by sloper at 04/16/2008 @ 09:26am
Edmund Burke, in his speech to the electors of Bristol: 'Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgement; and he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion.'
Ari Berman -- The Nation -- 16 April 2008: 'The momentum impacts the math, particularly when it comes to influencing the votes of superdelegates who continue to (maddeningly) sit on the sidelines.'
Benjamin Linus -- Lost on ABC -- 'Us? We're the good guys.'
Posted by HonestLiberal at 04/16/2008 @ 09:32am
Posted by HONESTLIBERAL 04/16/2008 @ 09:32am
The river Temarc in winter!
Posted by Mask at 04/16/2008 @ 09:35am
Froz, why on earth would you repost the filth Canyon spreads here? I have the dumb fuck on ignore, bit you are thwarting my intention. so you're on ignore too. as is any one who repeats Canyon.
Posted by emile duBois at 04/16/2008 @ 10:17am
Posted by EMILE DUBOIS 04/16/2008 @ 10:17am
Geez, Professor ROLF, he did it to show to MAASCH that MC was an actual neo-Nazi. Not to piss you off personally.
Lighten up, for gosh sakes...for a change.
Posted by Mask at 04/16/2008 @ 10:33am
Frank may very well be right about the outcome in the upcoming primary states. It doesn't really matter, Obama will still be 100-150 delegates ahead in the count and only 100 or so delegates away from getting the nomination.
If the uncommitted SDs split the way the comitted ones have, then that's Obama's 100 right there. Two things they will look at are 1) who got more actual votes/delegates in the primaries and 2) avoiding a protacted nomination fight. Interestingly enough, depending on how SD and uncomitted delegate votes shape up, letting the Florida/Michigan delegates sit as they are could put Obama over the top. Although Clinton would get most of the delegates, Obama looks to get about 50-60 from Florida and 30-40 from Michigan (bearing in mind that a vote for Uncomitted in Michigan was usually an anyone-but-HRC vote).
Also, there are 186 unpledged delegates from races that have already taken place. The first group is states Obama won with the total unpledge, the second is Clinton and Missouri, a dead heat.
Alabama, Connecticut, Georgia, Kansas, Utah, Nebraska, Vermont, Wyoming--74 Massachusetts, New Jersey, Tennessee, Ohio, Rhode Island--96 Missouri--16
Of course, there's no guarantee that they will break the way the pledged delegates broke but it they trend that way, it will be another situation where Clinton makes a slight gain but Obama gets right at the finish line.
The NYTimes has an interesting graphic [nytimes.com] breaking down Clinton-Obama support. It seems Clinton has an edge in counties dominated by less-educated whites while Obama does well among black and the better-educated. The graphic goes into greater detail.
Posted by brunowe at 04/16/2008 @ 10:57am
Posted by MADLIB 04/16/2008 @ 10:57am
Or worse, how about some supposed progressives and Democrats from the Hillary Cult, who will agree with him when he attacks Obama?
Posted by Mask at 04/16/2008 @ 11:12am
HAPPY2: "he has a sharp mind and is an exceptional writer"
That's the most offensive thing I've read on this discussion board today, including all of Canyon's unsubstantiated, rhetorically-ill advised, absurd claims.
Posted by Butler at 04/16/2008 @ 11:14am
What in holy hell do you mean by "good writing"? Have you ever done research? Do you believe there's any value in specificity or supporting your claims?
Anyone can string together wild generalizations in a provocative style.
God, this is exactly why Obama will never connect with some Americans.
I am pissed. >:(
Posted by Butler at 04/16/2008 @ 11:19am
MSNBC 10 February 2008 : '...Obama's speech Tuesday night in Chicago: "We are the ones we've been waiting for, we are the change we seek."...'
David Brooks: 'If we are the change we have been waiting for then why have we been waiting since we've been here all along?'
Leon Wieseltier (describing John Updike): 'a man who has words for everything and nothing but words.'
Posted by HonestLiberal at 04/16/2008 @ 11:26am
A last observation about Canyon's writing:
He doesn't write to communicate. He has no interest in persuasion. He's just screaming, and the content of his scream is less important to him than the noise it makes.
Posted by Butler at 04/16/2008 @ 11:38am
I agree with you, JO. A discourse should be a testing ground for ideas. But when someone denies the responsibility of listening, I believe they also forfeit the right to be listened to.
Posted by Butler at 04/16/2008 @ 12:06pm
"Speech is a right..to be heard is not."
And yet the one means nothing without the other, does it not?
How does one "prove" listening? By listening himself.
Posted by Butler at 04/16/2008 @ 12:18pm
HONESTLIB, I'm sure some people also thought "we have nothing to fear but fear itself" was hokum.
Posted by Butler at 04/16/2008 @ 12:25pm
Posted by ACOOK 04/15/2008 @ 11:36pm
The reason I made that point is because so many people on here think if you haven't served time in he Senate you aren't qualified to be President.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 04/16/2008 @ 12:45pm
Froz, why on earth would you repost the filth Canyon spreads here? I have the dumb fuck on ignore, bit you are thwarting my intention. so you're on ignore too. as is any one who repeats Canyon.
Posted by EMILE DUBOIS 04/16/2008 @ 10:17am
Geez, Professor ROLF, he did it to show to MAASCH that MC was an actual neo-Nazi. Not to piss you off personally.
Lighten up, for gosh sakes...for a change.
Posted by MASK 04/16/2008 @ 10:33am | ignore this person
Thanks for the heads up Frosty..
I find Mark disturbing in these posts and am puzzled by his point of view...
and I am in agreement with Happy, that many of Marks analysis are dead on and he does have a way with words that the Nation writers here could only hope to achieve..
But the fact reamins ..some of these post are horrible.
It is because of his way with words that I thought he might be NACL, for he had a great writing style...but Old Salty was not an anti semite.
Posted by JOMAMMA 04/16/2008 @ 10:43am
Posted by frosted zoom at 04/16/2008 @ 1:05pm
'We have nothing to fear but fear itself' -- Franklin Roosevelt
'Before the Trumpet - Young Franklin Roosevelt' by Geoffrey C. Ward, 1985, Harper & Row, pages 183-184: 'Pumping was dreaded more, imposed before the entire school [Groton] with the tacit sanction of the rector and only after a solemn, drawn-out ceremony that made its cruelty all the more excruciating for the victim. ... "the fourth formers seized him and rushed him down the back stairs to the cellar, where he was turned upside-down and held under the gush of a faucet - the water power was excellent - until he had almost fainted" ... Having suffered all the initial sensations of drowning, still retching and gasping, he was then asked if he fully understood the seriousness of his offense, and if he failed to be properly enthusiastic ... the tap was turned on a second time... The next fall he [Franklin Delano Roosevelt] reported, "You will be pleased to hear that George Cabot Ward Low has been pumped, & a pretty sight he was! He left off swaggering immediately!"...'
Posted by HonestLiberal at 04/16/2008 @ 3:22pm
Well ther's mo biz like politics. Do some rhetoric and get tons of money. Ah, smart guy this Obamacaca.
----------
Obama reports income of $4.2 million in 2007 tax returns By BETH Ther's no biz like politics: Do some rhetoric and get tons of money.
FOUHY, Associated Press Writer Wed Apr 16, 7:13 PM ET
PHILADELPHIA - Democratic Sen. Barack Obama and his wife, Michelle, made $4.2 million last year as widespread interest in the presidential candidate pushed the sales of his two books.
Posted by HelenDAO at 04/17/2008 @ 02:29am
Too soft for too long? Well, why not just tell the guy to sit down and that he's not mature and wait for his turn. ObamaCaca is all disaster. The Americans are naive so this time they will vote for saanother disaster named McCain.
------------
Clinton Uses Sharp Attacks in Tense Debate Sign In to E-Mail or Save This Print Single Page Reprints Share DiggFacebookMixxYahoo! BuzzPermalinkBy ADAM NAGOURNEY and JEFF ZELENY Published: April 17, 2008 PHILADELPHIA -- Senator Barack Obama found himself consistently on the defensive as he and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton met Wednesday night in a tense debate that left him parrying questions and criticism on issues including values, patriotism and his association with onetime radicals from the 1960s.
Posted by HelenDAO at 04/17/2008 @ 02:56am
Posted by HONESTLIBERAL 04/16/2008 @ 3:22pm | ignore this person
the difference between hazing and torture is that the victim of the latter believes himself to be killed. the victim of the former knows that his tormentors WILL stop before he dies.
this kind of hazing is strictly in the past for most campuses today.
Posted by emile duBois at 04/17/2008 @ 09:23am
Posted by BUTLER 04/16/2008 @ 12:25pm | ignore this person
after witnessing the run on banks, and their effect turning a recession into a depression, those words surely had more resonance then.
Posted by emile duBois at 04/17/2008 @ 09:24am
Those who want Hillary to quit should trust the democratic process. Would they advise a sports team to stop playing just because they are behind? Are they considering that caucuses do not represent all the Democrats in their area, let alone the entire electorate? Would we want ANY president to give up a struggle when the chances of winning are bleak? No. Hillary may lose, but she should not be intimidated.
Posted by SENSOCRAT at 04/17/2008 @ 2:20pm
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/action/ignore.mhtml?who=SENSOCRAT
in this case the sports metaphor fails.
Posted by emile duBois at 04/17/2008 @ 2:29pm
Obviously the campaign has gone on too long -- we've been side-tracked into "gaffes" and personality traits instead of good ideas and the skills to implement them. The media are desperate for any kind of a story so they take stuff out of context and blow it up into something that the pundits can claim is a major misstep -- all this while the most incompetent President in living memory continues to kill thousands of people with his outright LIES.
Posted by SENSOCRAT at 04/17/2008 @ 2:33pm
Hillary Clinton should stay in the race, at least until the last primary. Having two strong candidates has energized the party at the local level. Here in Eastern Pennsylvania, Democratic registration has increased four percent in the last month. For the first time, Democrats are the majority in Bucks County, outside Philadelphia. We will probably re-elect the first Democratic representative in twenty years. The party will have plenty of time to unify around the chosen candidate, regardless of who it is. Although I plan to vote for Sen Clinton, because I think she would be a better president, I think that Sen, Obama would be an excellent candidate, too. The difference between Sen Clinton and Sen Obama are trivial relative to the difference of either to Sen McCain. I have little respect for Democrats who would vote for Sen. McCain if their preferred candidate failed.
Posted by donald Sachs at 04/17/2008 @ 3:39pm
I have little respect for Democrats who would vote for Sen. McCain if their preferred candidate failed.
Posted by DONALD SACHS 04/17/2008 @ 3:39pm | ignore this person
you got that right. even worse is that they wear this as a badge of honor.
Posted by emile duBois at 04/17/2008 @ 4:42pm
It IS a dead heat. Less than 5 percent separates their pledged delegate count. Add FL and MI popular vote, even if it is split, and Clinton is ahead. Most Americans believe that popular vote should be the determining factor in superdelegates' choice.
Barack Obama is unelectable, whether you like it or not. Last night gave voters an indication of why.
Posted by mabelle at 04/17/2008 @ 6:39pm
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/action/ignore.mhtml?who=mabelle
oh please we've heard that song so many times before. this makes him unelectable, that makes him unelectable. Barry did fine.
Florida and Michigan should and likely will not be seated. they defied party rules. end of story.
Posted by emile duBois at 04/17/2008 @ 7:21pm
It's not math, it's simple arithmetic.
"Nine Ohios" is pure poetry.
Bob
Posted by RJClawson at 04/18/2008 @ 12:17am
It's not math, it's simple arithmetic.
nonsense, gibberish. drivel.
Posted by emile duBois at 04/18/2008 @ 10:54am
Arithmetic or arithmetics (from the Greek word αριθμός = number) is the oldest and most elementary branch of mathematics,
Posted by emile duBois at 04/18/2008 @ 1:58pm