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RedditPreeminent neocon and newly-minted New York Times columnist Bill Kristol embarrassed himself last week by incorrectly stating that Barack Obama was present for one of Jeremiah Wright's fiery sermons and for neglecting to mention that his information came from the notoriously untrustworthy right-wing tabloid, Newsmax.com.
Now Kristol has embarrassed himself again this week by stating, in the wake of Obama's speech on race, that racism is not really a problem in America. "The last thing we need now is a heated national conversation about race," Kristol writes. "Racial progress has in fact continued in America. A new national conversation about race isn't necessary to end what Obama calls the 'racial stalemate we've been stuck in for years' -- because we're not stuck in such a stalemate."
Kristol provides no empirical evidence to back up such an ignorant claim. He fails to mention, for instance, that 50 percent of African-American men in New York City were unemployed as of 2004; or that 1 in 10 black men in their 20s are behind bars; or that more than half of all black men in inner cities do not finish high school; or that the subprime lending crisis is considered to be "the greatest loss of wealth for people of color in modern US history," according to United for a Fair Economy.
Of course we've made racial progress in America--and Obama is a testament to that. But only an idiot (or a racist) would allege that racism does not remain a major problem in our country, and that we don't need to do a lot more to address it. Kristol is not an idiot, he just plays one on the Times op-ed page.
His spectacularly bad judgment on the war in Iraq was reason enough to oppose Kristol's appointment as a Times columnist. The Times' own ombudsman called the hiring of Kristol a "mistake." It's worse than that. His basic disregard for facts of any kind is well beneath the Times--or any self-respecting paper of record.
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Racism IS a problem in America! It's the fact that it's the "Politically Correct" form of racism that Obama is getting away with. Michelle and Barack Obama are racists! The Dem. party is INVESTED in racism, therefore it will not go away.
Posted by barry25 at 03/24/2008 @ 3:00pm
Kristol is, has been, and always will be a flak for the ownership class GOP. The reason the Times put him on salary is that they are intimidated by right-wing charges of "liberal bias." So they counter that fake charge of liberal bias by hiring a known propagandist for the right. This is how the GOP bosses have continually shifted the "conversation" farther and farther to their end of the spectrum. It's easy to bully newsroom mavins and get them to carry your water. They work from paycheck to paycheck & don't want to give up their sinecures.
Posted by goyadad at 03/24/2008 @ 3:04pm
Ya gotta admit the irony there is hilarious....
Kristol on racism?... "because we're not stuck in such a stalemate."
Kristol on Iraq?...exact opposite!
heheh
Posted by Mask at 03/24/2008 @ 3:05pm
Posted by BARRY25 03/24/2008 @ 3:00pm
Again, BARRY...you're not voting for the Republican...you're not voting for the Democrat....so who cares what you think?
Posted by Mask at 03/24/2008 @ 3:06pm
Posted by BARRY25 03/24/2008 @ 3:00pm
You're skipping your meds again, fella. Now go quietly with Nurse Ratchet. She knows what's good for you.
Posted by goyadad at 03/24/2008 @ 3:08pm
IQ25...what's it like in your world, really?
Posted by lefthookjab at 03/24/2008 @ 3:24pm
GFoyadad, do you habitually smoke pot, or are you just another liberal moron? The NYT, along with the rest of the MSM,is blatantly liberal! Every story they print is slanted. They are constantly caught up in biased reporting or outright lies, and shockingly, every time they get caught it the story is negative towards the right! Dan Rather, mary Mapes etc. have lost their jobs and every time it's because of a false story attacking republicans! Furthermore, the NYT endorsed McCain ( a liberal )! Then they printed a false story about him. It goes on and on. Furthermore, the Dem's are such low, despicable people that they cannot be faithful to their wives, children or family long enough to serve one term in office. Whether it's Mayor Newsome, Mayor Kilpatrick, The former Gov. Spitzer or the replacement Gov. Patton , the bottom line is that these people are scum. Oh, I left out Slick Willy. The 2 things that all these scoundrels have in common is that they are all lowlife Dem's and they are all Narcissistic Sociopaths ( which is generally a prerequisite for inclusiion into the Dem party)!
Posted by barry25 at 03/24/2008 @ 3:26pm
Guys, guys, guys....
no point in wasting time with BARRY.
He thinks McCain is a liberal and is "leaving the Republican Party".
Less than zero (or ZERO) on the political importance scale.
Posted by Mask at 03/24/2008 @ 3:27pm
Don't you idiots see the pattern of each and every one of these pitiful Dem's. All of their actions are "SELFISH" with no regard to their family, their suopporters, and definitely not to the taxpayers ( but since when have Dem's EVR appreciated the taxpayer! ). Like I've been saying for years, they are " narcissistic sociopaths "! Their " selfishness" is the seed of their sociopathic behavior. Which is proven by the left's contstant ability to get away with their own personal belief that the people should " do as I say, not as I do"!
Posted by barry25 at 03/24/2008 @ 3:31pm
i actually (mostly) agree with kristol on this one......and the kind of "empirical evidence" the nation is looking for doesn't exist given the ontological assumption kristol holds. and the empirical evidence to which the nation points does not necessarily dispute kristol's claims.
if a majority of blacks are still living below the poverty line does not dispute kristol's claim that many legal protections and civil rights are in place for minorities. obama cited the "more, perfect union" as evidence that blacks, indeed, have it bad. but this only assumes that skin color is a bottom-line indicator of identity.
if someone is black, that only means that he/she gradually absorbed more sun that a white person. with some minor exceptions, of course.
whether one culture gradually presumed that another culture was inferior, because of that bottom line indicator, is not necessarily evidence that the former culture is racist (or has a problem with more darker skin). it is a deep, psychological and sexual machine working beneath the surface of all of our skin. and cannot be reduced to "kristol is racist" because he said.....blah, blah blah...
Posted by darladoon at 03/24/2008 @ 3:31pm
Posted by BARRY25 03/24/2008 @ 3:26pm
So if you don't like McCain or Obama, who are you going to vote for, BARRY25, and why?
Posted by Metteyya at 03/24/2008 @ 3:32pm
obama himself said something about how whites naturally fear walking through a black neighborhood, right? well, is he a racist? he said he UNDERSTOOD how white's feel. that's f*cking racist, according to the nation.
Posted by darladoon at 03/24/2008 @ 3:33pm
Posted by BARRY25 03/24/2008 @ 3:26pm |
C'mon IQ, you really don't want to go there do you? I mean with Senator Wide Stance, Idaho (R) and Congressman Page Chaser, Florida (R), your side has it's share of freaks as well.
Posted by lefthookjab at 03/24/2008 @ 3:36pm
Dear Mr. Berman,
I have reread Kristol's essay and confirmed that the title of your blog post is simply misleading.
Kristol: "Over the last several decades, we've done pretty well in overcoming racial barriers and prejudice. Problems remain."
Notice the second sentance. It flatly contradicts your assertion that Kristol's essay suggests that racism is "not a problem" in America. His statement that we are not "in a stalemate" does not mean that there are no problems, only that it is wrong to suggest that no progress is being made.
I suspect that you and Mr. Kristol would disagree about how serious the problem of racism remains in the United States. However, sicne Mr. Kristol flat-out states in his piece that "problems remain" in terms of "racial prejudice and barriers," you shouldn't write that he says "racism is not a problem". You should apologize for the mistake and rephrase your statement.
Yours,
Posted by mrhwb at 03/24/2008 @ 3:36pm
barry25-On the planet Earth republicans commit adultery,too,but,like all partisan people,you live in a fantasy world..In the real world politicians are pretty much the same.In the real world people are pretty much the same no matter which party they vote for.Sorry,to bring reality into this.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/24/2008 @ 3:39pm
Obama is not a racist. His much-hacked "typical white person" remark made the POINT that grandma wasn't a racist. Why the half-a-sentence quotes? because if you can't find something bad, you make something up.
Posted by johnny canuck at 03/24/2008 @ 3:41pm
Mask, I just come to this site to put the mirror in front of your face! I constantly point out the astronomical flaws of the left ( this includes you). The left is morally bankrupt! They have absolutely no values ( see: numerous Dem. leaders treatment of their wives , their friends wives, their families , their constituents etc, and the willingness of Dem's to not only defend this despicable behavior but to condone it! After ALL, IT'S JUST SEX! ) Now Mask, I know you're too selfish to understand that being betrayed by those closest to you is one of the most lastingly painful things an individual can go through, but I've seen people never recover from it! I know you think that betrayal is "human", and that's why you're SCUM! Now, rational people know that if a man can betray those closest to him, he can betray ANYONE, therefore he cannot be trusted to ANY position of power because his character is flawed! Somehow, you deep-thinking morons on the left can't grasp this common-sense notion and you continue to defend and re-elect adulteres, tax-dodgers, racists ( Obama for example )and even crackheads ( marion barry ). And, unlike you on the left who have no standards, I have left the Rep. party and will not vote for Mccain because he has BETRAYED me. Just think losers, if all of us held our own party to account and did away with the scoundrels, maybe America would be a better place, but none of you have the moral fortitude to do that! Pathetic!
Posted by barry25 at 03/24/2008 @ 3:44pm
Condi Rice baby! I'm going to write her in! She'll never run for Pres. and that's ok because she's worked far too hard and given way to much to this country only to be attacked and ridiculed by the immoral left! If only she had put a "D' next to her name! I respect and admire her tremendously and she should be a role model for not only black women but the entire human race!!!!!!
Posted by barry25 at 03/24/2008 @ 3:50pm
barry25-Nice fantasy world you have there where no one on the right commits adultery.Many people on the left are not democrats.Try keeping your posts more reality based.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/24/2008 @ 3:52pm
Any individual, white, black, asian etc. who sat in that "church" of hatred for 20 years IS. without a doubt, both a RACIST and and America hating/blaming fool! Any white republican who did the exact same thing would have been gone the next DAY. If you don't think so, look at what got Trent Lott in troublr and then ask yourself how Robert "KKK" Bird can still be serving! ( answer: the "D" next to his name) There is no more debate on the subject.
Posted by barry25 at 03/24/2008 @ 3:54pm
barry25-The GOP nominee is a guy who dumped his wife for a younger and richer one.Lots of right wing morals there.Condi Rice is a republican so can't vote for her since you left the party.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/24/2008 @ 3:55pm
Nobody, your repsonse was predicted and is typical of the moronic left! Republicans have committed adultery, pedophilia, and every other crime the Dem's have committed, although not nearly at the rate of Dem's. For the thousanth time, i'm going to explain the DIFFERENCE as simply as I can for you spoiled little brats! The left CONDONES, DEFENDS and RE_ELECTS the scum in their party that commits these acts! The left does this because they have NO VALUES and they are selfish sociopaths themselves, therefore they want these despicable acts to be universally accepted, thus justifying their own personal flaws! Hopefully you can understand simple english, but I'm not countin' on it!
Posted by barry25 at 03/24/2008 @ 3:59pm
McCain cheated on his wife? If I was going to vote for him, and this charge were true, he'd lose my vote! next!
Posted by barry25 at 03/24/2008 @ 4:00pm
whether one culture gradually presumed that another culture was inferior, because of that bottom line indicator, is not necessarily evidence that the former culture is racist (or has a problem with more darker skin). it is a deep, psychological and sexual machine working beneath the surface of all of our skin. and cannot be reduced to "kristol is racist" because he said.....blah, blah blah...
Posted by DARLADOON 03/24/2008 @ 3:31pm
Excuse me for asking-- I get the "blah blah blah" part-- but as for the rest, what on earth (or Mars, or Alpha Centauri P4, or Mongo, for that matter) are you talking about?
Make sense, please, if not for your sanity, then for the rest of us!
Posted by goyadad at 03/24/2008 @ 4:00pm
Nobody, what statement was not" reality based"? No careful, I've clowned just about every loser lib on this site, and if i set my sights on you, you might just stop posting here because of the humiliation you're about to feel! Bring it !
Posted by barry25 at 03/24/2008 @ 4:02pm
barry25-Got any statistics to back up your claims?Of course,you don't because you made it up.You are a hypocrite who says that my side is more moral than your side,but then go and prove that that isn't the case.You admit that your side does all the same things,but then claims that the other side does it more.That's like one serial killer trying to claim that they aren't as bad as this other serial killer.Like I said,your side just nominated a guy who dumped his wife for a younger and richer woman and most on the right will vote for him.Same morals.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/24/2008 @ 4:07pm
By the way Brainiacs, if racism is such a problem, we better all join forces against those evil; racist Asians, because they are outperforming even evil whitey on everything from education, to home-ownership, to income and that come's from the NYT! Now, if the racist white man was able to keep all non-whites down, how'd these japs, slants, gooks, nips etc ( i used these names to show that ythese people WERE discriminated against/ and the Japanese were evne interred ) become so successful? The answer: they didn't buy, believe or even follow the lies of the poverty-pimps on tyhe left, and the just took advantage of the endless opportunities that the greatest country on the planet offers! Thank you for allowing me to once again prove you all wrong with your own statistics ( NYT)!
Posted by barry25 at 03/24/2008 @ 4:07pm
Posted by BARRY25 03/24/2008 @ 3:44pm
Oh, jeez, BARRY, I'm sorry...I didn't realize you were insane.
I thought you were just a loud mouth Hard Rightie...but given you've called everybody from McCain leftward a "liberal"...and all liberals evil losers....I see that you're a clinical paranoid and needing of psychotherapy.
BTW, you think Condi is a virgin?...with men, I mean?...heheh
Posted by Mask at 03/24/2008 @ 4:09pm
barry25-If you can't figure out which of your statements aren't reality based then you just clowned yourself since I mentioned two in that response..
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/24/2008 @ 4:10pm
ARI, you seem more determined to maintain the arguments and the battles and guilt trips and all the rest, just like a good Democrat. After all what else can they hang their hat on: Without the race card to battle over they wouldn't know what to do with themselves.
Isn't it ironic that its a member of that protected minority who understands that the invocation of the race card does not heal but MAINTAINS the divisions:Obama understands this.
Move over Ari and Jesse and Al and Howard and Hillary and Julian: Your race and guiltmongering days are over: Hopefully in Nov., ther'll be a new sheriff in town.
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 03/24/2008 @ 4:13pm
Nobody, change your name to I'm a MORON! Did you not see the part where I stated that your side CONDONES, DEFENDS and even Re-elects these lowlifes! The Republicans don't! This is factual. Are you capable of independant thought? How stupid are you? You have a former GRANDMASTER of the KKK still serving in the senate, MORON! You have re-elected twice a crack-smoking, adulterous, tax-dodging mayor ( marion barry). Oh damn, this is futile, i'm dealing with a loser liberal, therefore, there's no getting through. I'll just keep paying outrageous taxes so the losers on the left can be fed!
Posted by barry25 at 03/24/2008 @ 4:13pm
A ANTI_AMERICAN RACIST SHERIFF, that is!
Posted by barry25 at 03/24/2008 @ 4:14pm
Well I'm glad to see there are no challenges to the facts that i presented regarding the fact that ASIANS are doing better than every other race in this country today ( which essentially proves that race plays no factor in success or failure in today's AMERICA), yet no one is hating on them because of their success! That's odd, it must just be the color of whitey's skin thayt get's the racists on the left so riled up!
Posted by barry25 at 03/24/2008 @ 4:19pm
barry25-I have voted for about the same number of republicans as democrats so I'm not sure what you mean when you say my side..Did you not see that I pointed out that the GOP just nominated a man who dumped his wife for a younger and richer one?You don't pay outrageous taxes nor do you feed anyone on the left.You made that up just as you made up your statistics.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/24/2008 @ 4:21pm
"Grrrrr....arrrghhh.... "Demoncrats".... mnnnhhharr...rrrarllrgarl...."Alibama".....mrrrghhhhrr.. ...dddrrraaggglll.... "secular regressives"..... mmarrrrrh.... grrrrrrrrrr...... slather...drool.... "Hillary Rotten (Satan's favorite daughter)..... grrrrrrrrr.....arrrggghhhh.... "I'm an independent!"----Posted by RIO BRAVO 03/24/2008 @ 4:25pm
Posted by Mask at 03/24/2008 @ 4:33pm
MarkCanyon-Obama is half white and was raised white.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/24/2008 @ 4:36pm
i kind of agree with kristol - "heated" debate not desirable, but meaningful, honest conversation and reflection is highly desirable.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 03/24/2008 @ 4:53pm
The double standard that kept O J Simpson from going to jail now wants to send Barack H Obama into the Oval Office. . . .
Demanding entry into the White House for a black scam artists will turn back race relations for generations.
Posted by MARKCANYON 03/24/2008 @ 4:34pm
Oh, I get it, BARACK HUSSEIN O'BINLADIN-BAMA = O J SIMPSON.
Gee, never saw it that way before. I take it back what I said about the Right Wing Hate Machine.
But where's Obama's bloody glove? His Bruno Magli shoe? So OJ really WASN'T there after all-- it was Obama doing his dirty work on Mark & Nicole.
And I have MARKCANYON to rely upon for all these transcendent truths. Thank God for Marky! mark-mark. mark. mark.
(BTW-- Who is "demanding" entry? By the front door, too? Damn them! Who do these uppity black fellows think they are? The South Will Rise Again! I say, Suh! Not by the soul of Jeff Davis, Suh! No, Suh! Fetch me my Hood! My Cross of Fire!)
Posted by goyadad at 03/24/2008 @ 4:53pm
That makes him a 21 carat bigot even as he accuses others of racism. This is The Nation at its most perverse.
Posted by MARKCANYON 03/24/2008 @ 4:34pm | ignore this person
takes one to know one, eh nazi?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 03/24/2008 @ 4:54pm
Posted by RIO BRAVO 03/24/2008 @ 4:25pm | ignore this person
nah...its got a pretty good rep for accuracy despite its stated ideological bent. right wing bullshit horns are forced to lie and bullshit, often without acknowledging their political agenda because the right wing view of reality is a lot further from reality.
i mean, hell...we're talking about a bunch who think the world was created 6000 years ago and that america never does anything bad. how can one respect anything resembling external objective reality who must force it all into such absurd anti-scientific intellectual straightjackets?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 03/24/2008 @ 4:58pm
Posted by BARRY25 03/24/2008 @ 4:13pm | ignore this person
you guys have a mule fucker...
horsley [tinyurl.com]
and he's an anti-abortion terrorist too!
Posted by ibbleblibble at 03/24/2008 @ 5:04pm
Well, nobody, if you think that paying over 70% of my annual income to taxes is not paying an " outrageous ", then could you tell me what % of taxes would be considered outrageous? Remember, and this may be news to you, but your income tax is only one of the boatload of taxes we pay every year!
Posted by barry25 at 03/24/2008 @ 5:06pm
anti abortion terrorist? you pee-on! First of all, I'm pro-choice until the third trimester even though i dis-agree with abortion in all forms. Second of all, dumbass, when was the last time a abortion clinic was bombed or when was the last time an anti-abortion protestor made headlines? Maybe Eric Rudolph? Everybody run, hide, forget the dangers of radical islam and suicide bombers, let's focus on the real threat, anti-abortion activists/terrorists waving signs and bibles. Those are dangerous weapons! Son, do you also fear the boogeyman under your bed? Do you still suck your thumb and wet the bed? Derelict!
Posted by barry25 at 03/24/2008 @ 5:19pm
Nobody wants to touch the Asian issue! I successfully cornered all you looney lefty racists with stats provided by your beloved, though impartial, NEW YORK TIMES! This is fun, fun , fun! Sometimes I bring friends over, some of them dumb-ass liberals that are too coddled to understand the errors of their ways yet they are still nice people, to view these blogs and show them how truly ignorant, racists, and anti-american the left is and how easily i clown them with facts! We enjoy beers while reading the countless posts in which you libs humiliate yourselves and how i put you all in your place! Fun Fun Fun!
Posted by barry25 at 03/24/2008 @ 5:25pm
barry25-70% of your income doesn't go to taxes nor do you clown liberals with facts since you never post any.I was unaware that there was an Asian issue...
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/24/2008 @ 5:31pm
It's time for BARRY25 and people like him to splash some cold water in their faces, shake their heads and wake up. See the world the way it is. The past seven years have been a catastrophe for America and Americans. The worldview that caused all this grief needs to be seriously rethought. We are all (including BARRY25) being desperately injured by this cult of militarism and world domination. Please, BARRY*, think what you are doing and stop doing it.
Posted by jread_21205 at 03/24/2008 @ 5:33pm
Posted by BARRY25 03/24/2008 @ 5:19pm | ignore this person
mule fucker...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 03/24/2008 @ 5:37pm
I had to send lil' barry to ignoreland, purely for lack of imagination. Which of course is polite for 'brains'.
Posted by winyahn at 03/24/2008 @ 5:51pm
Posted by WINYAHN 03/24/2008 @ 5:51pm | ignore this person
he's a troubled little terrible tyke.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 03/24/2008 @ 6:03pm
Konsider the Kontext, our pent up little Kristol... There's been no real news on Obama in last 48 hours. He's got the ultimate neocon venue! He's on the INSIDE - the New York @)(*@ Times! He's got Rush-Cheney-Rove's orders to tear down Obama. BUT he can't let on! He stares at the blank page...
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm
I got it! I'll tear down THE speech, the truly historic speech! I'll destroy it! I'll attach my pathetic little parasite self to something truly grand! It should be me! I should be leading the American people, not this bozo! Sure I slipped up last week. Stupid Newsmax! If I had all the people worshiping me that Obama has, I'd have more help. Damn, can't think like this! Type you fool! Remember Reagan!!!
Checks both ways, then pulls Reagan doll out of drawer. I am you Ronny, you in '08 baby!!! (kissing doll over and over) Yes, I'll tear that speech apart! But in a Kristol-klever way! That's me, super K Ronnnay!
I'll say there was no reason for it! Nevermind all the Wright Wright Wright mess. Got to type... This is too good. And these liberal socialist Times readers will never catch on!
Posted by winyahn at 03/24/2008 @ 6:10pm
I've heard several pundits declare that race relations have steadily improved since the Civil Rights Era, and many more nod their head in agreement. To quote Dick Cheney, "So?"
So, let's get this straight, because race relations have improved, from Jim Crow mind you, it is no longer an issue in America, we don't need to discuss it. True, you might be able to say Iraq is more pressing, or the lagging economy, but that's not the crux of their argument, because things are better, it is not an issue.
Bullocks. The list of things that could no longer be issues because they have bettered would be a mile long. We live longer and have more treatments for cancer, no need for that medical research! In order to make this claim there has to be evidence that relations have improved to a point that we as Americans can be satisfied with the results. The high rates of poverty, imprisonment, Katrina, and other pressing social issues that impact minorities more than whites says that this issue hasn't been solved.
Barack made a mistake though, I still don't think this country is ready to actually look at the skeletons in its closet. (Obviously since i said that i hate America because America is self-evidently perfect) The right wing echo chamber will state this isn't an issue, or they will attack Obama as being a reverse racist or any number of spurious arguments and will at all cost blur and avoid the issue. America is still a toddler when it comes to self aware behavior, we'd rather nod our heads, or bury them in sand, rather than actually look out our history, out policies and their impacts.
In the end what most progressives are proposing is nothing more than R & D. What were the problems with the last policy, law, or approach? What would make it better? How can you improve something if you can't accept that it is flawed or could at least be made better?
Posted by Tzimisce at 03/24/2008 @ 6:30pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 03/24/2008 @ 5:37pm |
That's not fair, IBB. BARRY would never have carnal relations with a mule!
They look too much like donkeys, which remind him of "evil loser" Democrats.
Now an elephant...or a Constitution Party eagle....
he'd bang the crap out of one of those (especially if his girlfriend Condi isn't "into guys"!)
Posted by Mask at 03/24/2008 @ 7:41pm
Posted by MASK 03/24/2008 @ 7:41pm | ignore this person
see...thats the great thing about bestiality - ya never have to worry about having to get yer partner an abortion...unless...
humanzee [tinyurl.com]
but the std's are a bitch though...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 03/24/2008 @ 7:51pm
Racism over ...... I don't think so ...... one candidate ....... and I'm not mentioning any names here ..... is getting 90% plus support from those of the same skin tone ...... people looking beyond the color of one's skin ..... it ain't happening ....
Racism exclusive to whites? HAHAHAHAHAH Not hardly!
Posted by bleedingheart at 03/24/2008 @ 8:01pm
Posted by IBBLEBLIBBLE 03/24/2008 @ 7:51pm
Actually a "humanzee" might explain BARRY25.
heheh
Posted by Mask at 03/24/2008 @ 9:32pm
Posted by MASK 03/24/2008 @ 9:32pm | ignore this person
if i ever pull a johannesrolf, i think my new handle will be "humanzee"...or i could do a sock puppet/steven colbert thing...nah...rightwingnuts would never call themselves "humanzee"...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 03/24/2008 @ 9:50pm
Posted by RIO BRAVO 03/24/2008 @ 10:46pm
Now, that is funny!
Posted by Malcontent at 03/24/2008 @ 11:11pm
dittohead: Well now, what else would rightwing conservatives do for fun if we didn't visit leftwingnut sites?
ANSWER: c i r c l e j e r k
Posted by winyahn at 03/25/2008 @ 12:09am
Posted by RIO BRAVO 03/25/2008 @ 12:15am
Другой гений Bushwingnut интеллекту альный паяет глубины его знания ого светского регрессивн 1086;го ritualism! Keating Five
Posted by winyahn at 03/25/2008 @ 12:22am
When you post a lot you are bound to say some silly things.
This might be the silliest Mask has been though:
Again, BARRY...you're not voting for the Republican...you're not voting for the Democrat....so who cares what you think
This borders on parody.
Posted by dentedpat at 03/25/2008 @ 01:18am
So, let's get this straight, because race relations have improved, from Jim Crow mind you, it is no longer an issue in America, we don't need to discuss it
what is there to discuss? ok, blacks have it bad. so what? whites have it bad, too. and if whites have it bad, too, that pretty much modifies the claim that blacks have it bad.
poor people have it bad. that's my position.
Posted by darladoon at 03/25/2008 @ 01:24am
Marx would find it ironic that religion, the "opiate of the masses," as he called it, would be used to spread communist ideology in the guise of a theology
this person has clearly never read marx!
Posted by darladoon at 03/25/2008 @ 01:25am
if blacks rally around their black-ness, in order to fulfill their goal of racial equality, are they not conceding that skin color is a bottom-line indicator of identity? as opposed to, say, culture?
and if so, are they not being 'racist'?
if whites rally around white-ness, would they not be considered white supremacists?
if whites demand a white history appreciation month, would they not be considered white supremacists?
Posted by darladoon at 03/25/2008 @ 01:39am
Bill Kristol is a loathsome, miserable, neo-"conservative" traitor. He should be deported to Iraq. But I basically agree with him here. Black crime is a bigger problem in America today than White racism. Black dysfunction is the primary factor in holding their community back, not White racism. Blacks need to get their act together, far more than Whites need to rid themselves of a tradition of racial bigotry that has already largely fallen by the wayside. While some White people are still racially bigoted, they are generally those without the power to enforce their values.
Since Blacks commit violent crimes at seven times the rate White people do, most police, and many other people (and certainly not all of them White, and even including many Blacks; Jesse Jackson spoke of how he would be relieved when the stranger he met on the steets of Chicago at night turned out to be White, and I very much doubt Barack and Michelle Obama would be particularly comfortable in the company of Black street thugs) are a bit more inclined to be on their guard around them, but that isn't racism, so much as it is an awareness of statistical reality.
When does "racism" stop being bigotry? When its based on facts. If Black people were no more likely to shoplift than Whites (all other factors being equal, that is), then sales clerks in stores wouldn't keep a closer eye on them. If Blacks were no more likely than Whites (again, all factors being equal), to rob cabs, or skip out on paying fares, they wouldn't find it difficult to hail cabs. People generalize, because that's what the human brain is designed to do. Racial generalizations that are rational aren't best regarded as racist. Cops pulling over a disproportionate number of young, Black male drivers aren't engaged in racial profiling; they're engaged in statistical profiling. Elderly Black women are not pulled over by the police with any great frequency, and for very good and logical reasons.
If the 12% of the U.S. population that is Black would stop committing about 60% of the murders, rapes, and robberies in this society, and stop being about 40% of the welfare caseload, a lot of White people would view them more favorably. The vast majority of White people have no problem accepting a Black person who demonstrates they are not part of that pathological morass associated with the hip-hop/"gangsta" sub-culture. By the same token, virtually all White people have very little difficulty in rejecting White thugs in their midst. Its not a question of racial preference, so much as it is the tendency of a person to make decisions based on limited knowledge about the individuals they meet during the course of a given day.
It'd be great if everyone could be accurately judged as an individual, but if the only thing you know about a young man is that he's Black, then you know right off the bat that he's far more likely to violently assault you, or to steal from your shop, or to be carrying a pistol in his belt, than a young White man of whom you likewise know nothing else. White people can't be reasonably expected to turn off part of their brains in order to make Black people feel more comfortable. Black people need to adjust their behavior. After 45 years of anti-poverty programs, affirmative actions, racial set-aside programs, etc., its not unreasonable for White people to suggest the ball is no longer in our court.
Posted by Kevin_OKeeffe at 03/25/2008 @ 02:46am
Listen, Barry25, I'm Asian and I can tell you that a lot of people DO hate Asians for their success in the United States (and elsewhere in the world). It IS an issue. But not as big as the "white" issue because there has never been a period in US history where Asians were an oppressive majority. Or have I missed something all this time?
Also, you don't seem to realize that a huge percentage (I'd say over 50%) of Asian people who come to the United States are college educated. Take a drive around the Silicon Valley. Walk into Intel, Cisco Systems, IBM. Count how many Asians are working there. These aren't blue-collar workers who leave their native country to come here, they're highly educated (which is why they get to come to the US in the first place). This is why their kids tend to do well in school, this is why Asians have the highest average income in the United States.
Finally, dude, chill out on your liberal-bashing. You sound so immature when you make out liberals to be subhuman/depraved/immoral . It wasn't LIBERALS who voted Democrats with questionable morals back into office, it was the people in the area (D.C., whichever state this supposed KKK grandmaster was from). And do you seriously think all liberals were OK with Bill Clinton's infidelity??
Every post of yours is more diatribe than even argumentation. You are the kind of nutjob conservative, one of millions, who thinks that lightly criticizing the Republican Party while constantly bashing liberals makes you independent. No, sorry, but you're still a conservative nutjob.
Posted by freeminded at 03/25/2008 @ 04:16am
This comment board is proof that the racial divide is wider than people would believe.
Posted by KQuark at 03/25/2008 @ 04:32am
Anyways, now to Kevin: Yes, Blacks (and Hispanics) commit a higher proportion of crimes when you look at how much of the population they constitute.
But the crime isn't being committed evenly among all Blacks and Hispanics if you look for correlations between income and crime within those groups. RICH Blacks and Hispanics aren't the ones crowding the prisons. Why not?
See, the issue isn't about race. It's about poverty. I would venture to say that poor whites living in 'the hood' probably commit crimes at the same rate that poor Blacks and Hispanics do. The same goes for Asians and Arabs and every other racial/ethnic group.
The problem is poverty. It's a huge problem for all Americans. But more for Blacks than Whites and basically every other ethnic group. You can't just say "why can't Blacks just not do those things that make people stereotype Blacks". That's not fair. What you should have said is "why can't poor people not commit crimes?" to which I would reply, "why can't we invest more in the inner cities and poor neighborhoods, you simple-minded conservative moron?"
Kevin, be honest, you wouldnt want your kids to live and go to school in 'the hood', would you? Ask yourself why not. What kind of school would you rather have your kids attend, some rundown crumbling school in Harlem or a glistening new school in Scottsdale Arizona?
Posted by freeminded at 03/25/2008 @ 04:37am
Btw, RIOBRAVO, how come it was a Democratic president, and not any of the Republicans who came into office after Lincoln, who supported and signed into law the vast majority of civil rights legislation? (R.I.P. Lyndon B Johnson)
Which in effect made all the racist Democrats join the Republican Party. Which in effect, makes the Republican Party of today =/= (emphasis on "=/=")the Republican Party of the 60s. The Repubs of the 60s were saints compared to what we have now.
Sigh. Sniffle. Oh, how things have changed.
I think Abraham Lincoln would be incredibly ashamed of the modern-day Republican Party.He would recognize that the America of today needs to do more to address racial gaps in education, income, etc., and he wouldn't call it "victimization" or "un-American".
P.S. For the sake of argument, I'll agree with your categorization of those crazy Black preachers, and of those crazy Commie liberation theology nutjobs:
I like how you talked about militant Black churches/theology and militant Latin American theology but completely neglect to mention the militant predominantly WHITE theology that's been injecting hate and ugliness into politics and public discourse since (most recently) the 80s and the rise of the religious right. Last time I checked, many many White Christian pastors "foment[ed] divisiveness and promote delusional thinking" too.
Posted by freeminded at 03/25/2008 @ 04:54am
Wright was smeared. having watched all of the sermons in their entirety without editing, I have seen no blanket condemnation of whites, no declaration of blacks as being especially virtuous. The video clips are a chimera created as a peg for the bigots to hang their hat on.
Posted by johnny canuck at 03/25/2008 @ 08:22am
Bill Kristol is the type to piss down your back and tell you its raining. I wonder what was the NY Times thinking when they hired him he has no credibility on anything and is partly responsible for one of the worse foreign policy disasters in history. The Times fires Jason Blair but then Hires this guy.
Posted by davidpliskin at 03/25/2008 @ 08:23am
Posted by DARLADOON 03/25/2008 @ 01:24am | ignore this person
back in the late 19th century in north carolina the populist party started attracting lots of poor black and white followers, who shared many problems. the old south dem party got skeered, called in the kkk, and ended that...
i've always thought this...ok - not a big affirmative action opponant, but not terribly comfy with it either. but...if minorities are poor, why not have programs that help all poor people rather than just non-white poor(/middle class)? wanna know why poor whites vote against their economic interest (republican)?
is it not obvious???? racism? perhaps...non-whites, many economically better off than they, recieving aid while they are called names, reviled, and recieve no aid? hmmm...
wealth redistribution programs in this country should be largely color blind. not that we want to wipe out all differences (time will do that), but did we not at one point, dream of a color blind society?
Posted by ibbleblibble at 03/25/2008 @ 08:46am
Posted by DENTEDPAT 03/25/2008 @ 01:18am
Sorry, PAT, if the subtleties of the joke passed you by or how I was provoking ol' BARRY...not making some argument for the two-party system.
Posted by Mask at 03/25/2008 @ 09:56am
Oh, that's nothing, Lou Dobbs just said that more than 99% of Americans are not racist at the same time he suggested Obama should measure his words more carefully!
Posted by cyberdyno at 03/25/2008 @ 10:38am
and then I rest my case:....---Posted by LIBSWARNEDU 03/25/2008 @ 10:24am
Oh...if only!
heheh
Posted by Mask at 03/25/2008 @ 10:54am
Note Kristol's sleight of hand as well. While Obama said "But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now," Kristol then cited Bill Clinton's "conversation about race" and proceeded to attack Obama for calling for such a "conversation." It is one thing to not ignore something and quite another to have a "conversation" about it. Even Kristol admits in the same article that Obama is not likely to address this issue much more. "Luckily, Obama isn't really interested in getting enmeshed in a national conversation on race." So Kristol set up a straw man just to knock it down and drag Obama along with it. It's less Kristol's idiotic punditry that bothers me than his willingness to be dishonest with facts and with arguments in the service of the most corrupt elites in America. The logical fallacy he employs is so obvious that it can only have been intentional. There can be no real dialogue with people like William Kristol, for dialogue presupposes honesty and principled arguments capable of being swayed by logical, fact-based counter arguments. For those who read the NY Times and don't surf the net, I think it is good to have some conservative view points. But Bill Kristol does not offer anything you can learn except that he and his ilk are a cancer on this country.
Posted by Marc K at 03/25/2008 @ 12:15pm
The vast majority of White people have no problem accepting a Black person who demonstrates they are not part of that pathological morass associated with the hip-hop/"gangsta" sub-culture. By the same token, virtually all White people have very little difficulty in rejecting White thugs in their midst.
Posted by KEVIN_OKEEFFE 03/25/2008 @ 02:46am
Kevin, you omitted the phrase "typical white people" from phrase above. But you are undoubtedly right that whites are all law abiding & moral whereas blacks are natural lawbreakers who cheer thuggery.
One thing that does puzzle me: who buys all that gansta rap that black artists record? and who gets rich selling it? and who is it mostly taking bullets from drive-bys, would you say? typical white people or typical black people?
You see, people-- esp. typical while people-- talk such a lot of uniformed trash about people they don't live with, don't know, and don't care about, so instead glean most of their "info" from 23rd- hand media sources and stereotypes, that when I find someone like yourself who seems so, um, knowledgeable, I just naturally want to get the real facts from him.
Let me pick your brain. Won't take more than a second or two to get my microsope & tweezers.
Posted by goyadad at 03/25/2008 @ 4:16pm
Posted by MARKCANYON 03/25/2008 @ 4:17pm | ignore this person
Being poor in the 30s and being poor today are two completely different things. I don't know how NYC's murder rates then and in the 90s proves that Blacks commit more crimes than most other groups. There are 5 times more Blacks in NYC today, but 10 times more murders, so the problem must be Blacks? IN PLAIN ENGLISH: Your conclusion just doesn't follow the statistic you spat out.
Also, it's clear that Abraham Lincoln believed in racial equality. Whether or not he believed in deporting freed slaves back to Africa is irrelevant, it in no way implies that he believed that Blacks were unwelcome in the United States. Some blacks supported that idea as well, in the belief that setting up African American communities in Africa would be better than staying in the United States.
Once again, another faulty conclusion.
Posted by freeminded at 03/25/2008 @ 7:10pm
BARRY25: "The 2 things that all these scoundrels have in common is that they are all lowlife Dem's and they are all Narcissistic Sociopaths ( which is generally a prerequisite for inclusiion into the Dem party)!"
'Duke' Cunningham, Bob Ney, Lester Crawford, Scooter Libby [w/ Perle and Rove], Jeff Gannon, Armstong Williams, Rick Renzi, Steven Griles, Jack Abramoff, John Doolittle, Mark Foley & Hastert, Alberto Gonzales, Bernard Kerik, Dusty Foggo, Randall Tobias, Tom Delay, Randal David Ankeney, Parket J. Bena, Rush Limbaugh, Lurita Doan, .. Apparently every Republican politician, state and national, in/from Alaska
Granted it's not a complete list. I know I missed a bunch of them. I tried to keep it down to Republicans who, since 2000, have been convicted or are under indictment.. (I got two Pedophiles :-) or who have blatently violated the law but have never been held to account (Doan and Gonzales come to mind for Campaign Law violations and perjury).
There are even a few in there that are scandalous but may or may not rise to the level of criminality (if there were any accountability. For example, I included Hastert for his supression of warnings about Foley.. but he could also be included as simply a scandal for his shady land deal which borders the generally unwanted highway project he pushed, to be constructed past his property.
However, I know there are several convicts I've missed. It just takes too long to gather together a definitive list of corrupt Republican for just the past 8 years.
I've certainly left out pure scandals that would never warrant any prosecutions. There are dozens of Bush appointees who could be grouped here, as well as prominent republicans (in and out of of office) who have simply lead scandalous lives. Though outside the time frame I mentioned, Newt Gingrich is the best example of this category. Aside from the 84 ethics charges filed against Gingrich and the $300,000 file levied against him, I like to remember Gingrich as the Thrice married guy who married his 2nd and 3rd wives after they were his mistresses during previous marraiges. In a particularly Republican All-Star move, Gingrich had his divorce papers served to his 2nd wife, Marianne while she was undergoing cancer treatment. .. Of course this last affair/divorce occurred while Gingrich was working to impeach Clinton after the expensive, baseless Whitewater investigation.
I see what you're talking about Barry.
Posted by ffakr at 03/26/2008 @ 12:21am
FREEMINDED: "Also, it's clear that Abraham Lincoln believed in racial equality. Whether or not he believed in deporting freed slaves back to Africa is irrelevant, it in no way implies that he believed that Blacks were unwelcome in the United States. Some blacks supported that idea as well, in the belief that setting up African American communities in Africa would be better than staying in the United States."
Perhaps I'm unclear on something, I just happen to be reading a book on Lincoln right now. I don't know that I've ever heard that Lincoln was in favor of racial equality even though he was strongly anti-slavery and used Douglas' equivocating on Slavery as a cudgel against him.
My understanding is that Lincoln believed strongly in the Constitution but that he had strong disagreements with others on Constitutional issues. You can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that Lincoln accepted that Blacks were not granted the full rights of Whites. Granted, Douglas used overtly Racist rhetoric in his senatorial campaign against Lincoln, and he accused Lincoln of seeking equality with Blacks. My understanding is that Lincoln never embraced the image that Douglas painted. Lincoln did not make any attempt, at least at this point, to speak of equality.
ffakr.
Posted by ffakr at 03/26/2008 @ 12:36am
What you should have said is "why can't poor people not commit crimes?" to which I would reply, "why can't we invest more in the inner cities and poor neighborhoods, you simple-minded conservative moron?"
We've spent trillions of dollars on "investments" on the urban poor since the 1960s, and the problems have only gotten worse. We spend more on education, per puil, that any other society on the planet, so are schools clearly aren't under-funded. Here in California, many of the under-performing, urban schools actually have a a higher per pupil expenditure rate than the highly performing suburban schools (either that, or the local, Bay Area newspapers are lying; I assume its the former). There's unfortunately no way to use money to make urban Black kids more interested in learning, and less interested in indolence and thuggery. If there were, we'd have fixed that problem decades ago.
Poor Whites simply don't commit violent crimes at the same rate as poor Blacks, or even all that close, so its patently false to suggest its stricly an economic issue. There are clearly other factors at play here.
Posted by Kevin_OKeeffe at 03/26/2008 @ 12:46am
"Kevin...you are undoubtedly right that whites are all law abiding & moral whereas blacks are natural lawbreakers who cheer thuggery."
Since I'm assuming you're intelligent enough to have the necessary reading comprehension skills so as to be able to discern I never said anything of the kind, perhaps you could explain why you are lying about what I said? The fact that Blacks commit violent crimes at seven times the rate that Whites do still means that most Blacks do not commit such crimes. And my point about Whites rejecting thug-types within their own community demonstrated that Whites who are cautious about their interactions with Blacks are doing so because of concerns relating to the statistical frequency of certain patterns of behavior within the Black community, not that they have a problem with them being Black per se, as they are just as bothered by White people they suspect may be low-life elements as they are by low-life elements within the Black community. Most people of all races are aware that the portion of the Black community comprised of low-lifes is substantially higher than it is among the White community, and so they react accordingly. It certainly doesn't mean most Blacks are low-lifes, but why should some innocent White be bothered to take the chance of finding out? Its statistically much safer to simpy minimize one's contact with the Black community. Why should Whites have to risk their safety in order to make Blacks feel more comfortable? The solution is for Black hyper-criminality to cease, not for White people to stop having any concern for the welfare of themselves, their family, and their communities.
"One thing that does puzzle me: who buys all that gansta rap that black artists record?"
Who cares? What does that have to do with anything? Is your point that White people can listen to that crap without being affected by it, but Blacks can not? Of course, in my neighborhood, Blacks make up about 5% of the population, and about 50% of the criminal class, but the other 50% of the criminal class seems to consist mainly of White people who have adopted the social mores of low-class Blacks to the best of their natural ability, so I'll grant that the disgusting "hip-hop" sub-culture is a destructive influence within the White community as well.
"and who gets rich selling it?"
A bunch of already-wealthy assholes in Manhattan, I should imagine.
"and who is it mostly taking bullets from drive-bys, would you say? typical white people or typical black people?"
I'm not sure what your point is here. Should I only object to Black violence when it is directed against Whites? I imagine the sort of Blacks who victimize other Blacks are pretty much the same ones who victimize Whites.
"Let me pick your brain. Won't take more than a second or two to get my microsope & tweezers."
Yes, I'm well aware that having unfashionable opinions about controversial social issues is regarded as an indication of stupidity, just as marching in lock-step with the opinions on these issues that are incessantly promoted by the dominant corporate media is regarded as a sign of intellectual rigour and independence. Yawn.
Posted by Kevin_OKeeffe at 03/26/2008 @ 01:32am
"it's clear that Abraham Lincoln believed in racial equality."
How is that even remotely clear? Lincoln was against allowing Blacks to vote, own property, inter-marry with Whites, or to travel freely across state lines (or to settle within western territories). All that's clear about Lincoln is A) he opposed Southern secession, and B) he was a tyrant with little concern for Constitutional niceties.
Posted by Kevin_OKeeffe at 03/26/2008 @ 01:36am
Lincoln also opposed allowing Blacks to serve on juries, or to testify against Whites. I meant to reference that in my last post. A racial egalitarian he was not.
Posted by Kevin_OKeeffe at 03/26/2008 @ 01:38am
"Our time of affluence [in the 90s]"?
"Ample welfare safety nets [for Blacks]"?
Question: how much did the economic boom of the 90s do for the poorest Black communities? Honestly now. The poorest are almost always left behind in times of so-called 'prosperity'.
Secondly, handing someone a welfare check isn't the same thing as giving someone a real opportunity to move up in the world. I hope you do realize that. The latter is what underprivileged groups want, NOT handouts. Look at France, a good example of the modern-day welfare state. Why were people rioting in the ghettos? Certainly not because they WEREN'T getting their welfare checks in the mail.
And finally, if you don't think that our educational system as a whole is underfunded, you must be out of your mind. Are you saying that education is OVER-funded in this country? Look at teachers' salaries. Look at our schools in poor neighborhoods. Other countries might not invest as much in dollars into public education, but that's not as relevant as say, percentage of GDP invested in education, or percentage of government spending that goes toward education.
Posted by freeminded at 03/26/2008 @ 08:58am