Karen Thurman, Howard Dean and the Florida Fiasco

Florida Democratic Party chair Karen Thurman announced via e-mail Monday afternoon that the her wrongheaded proposal to select the state's delegates to this summer's Democratic National Convention in a June vote-by-mail primary has been scrapped.

That's good.

Unfortunately, Thurman tried to suggest that the rejection of the main-vote proposal meant that no one wanted a real primary.

"We spent the weekend reviewing your messages, and while your reasons vary widely, the consensus is clear: Florida doesn't want to vote again," Thurman wrote. "So we won't. A party-run primary or caucus has been ruled out, and it's simply not possible for the state to hold another election, even if the Party were to pay for it."

Thurman is wrong.

There are plenty of Floridians who understand that their state needs to hold a real primary, unlike the dysfunctional mess that Thurman and her compatriots arranged in January -- just as there are plenty of honest Democrats in the camps of both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama who recognize that delegates selected in the state's January 29 faux primary ought not be seated at this summer's Democratic National Convention. (That January vote was won by Clinton after she appeared in Florida on the eve of the primary -- technically for a fund-raiser but in reality for a photo-op designed to boost her candidacy -- in violation of a pledge by all the candidates to avoid campaigning there. Even Clinton backers know that to force the seating of a delegation selected under such circumstances would would -- if that delegation tipped the balance toward the New York Senator -- rip the party apart.)

For a good long while now it has been difficult to determine the identity of the more destructive player in this whole charade: Democratic National Committee chair Howard Dean, who has seemed to be more concerned about how much a new primary might cost than about ensuring a smooth end to a testy nomination fight, or Thurman, who has been unwilling to propose and promote the straight-forward primary that is the only rational fix for the Florida fiasco.

Dean's no hero. But it is now clear that Thurman is the greatest threat to the Democratic Party's 2008 prospects at this point.

If Democrats have a crisis at their convention, and that crisis costs them the White House in November, much of the blame will rest with her.

Comments (26)

1. Mannnn this is just not objective... Big pro-Hillary streak.

   Posted by winyahn at 03/17/2008 @ 9:44pm

2. Someone should tell Dean that Hillary or Obama can squash him like a donkey stepping on a rotten grape anytime either decides to.

   Posted by bleedingheart at 03/17/2008 @ 9:49pm

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   Posted by votenic at 03/17/2008 @ 10:03pm

4. Her photo for days on every blog - Who decided this? Based on what?

   Posted by winyahn at 03/17/2008 @ 10:05pm

5. If Democrats have a crisis at their convention, and that crisis costs them the White House in November, much of the blame will rest with her.

   Florida is more important to Hillary's prospect of winning in November than Barack's, so this may all be water under the bridge. The old Democrat red state-blue state math is what make Florida prominent, but as Barack puts more red states into play, you will see Florida's "swing state" status diminish.

   Posted by Metteyya at 03/17/2008 @ 10:10pm

6. Besides...

   I think McCain is going to choose Charlie Crist as his running mate, and his 70% approval rating in Florida is going to make this a near impossible state for the Democrats.

   Posted by Metteyya at 03/17/2008 @ 10:13pm

7. Two gray heads... might be the only negative. Also Crist is a newbie.

   Posted by winyahn at 03/17/2008 @ 10:34pm

8. NICHOLS: But it is now clear that Thurman is the greatest threat to the Democratic Party's 2008 prospects at this point.

   A NICHOLS' original!

   Why not put the blame where it already exists, in your two candidates and Demos' almost down-the-middle split in voters.

   Another culprit, the Superdelegates who have committed. Imagine ~800 Supers voting as a near unanimous bloc after holding their own Pre-Convention at the end of all the Primaries armed with Super knowledge of how it all went down from Jan. till July. Here we are in mid-March, Obama is NOT nearly the Magic Negro parodied by Rush and the Clintons have been proven to be like what the Repubs have known for much longer. Had the Supers been prohibited from committing until after the Primaries, one can even see wisdom in having them at all, for just this situation!

   NICHOLS' fingering Thurman isn't much difference to accusing a lineman of being offside costing a field goal or TD in the 2nd or 3rd quarter with the game decided in OT by a couple of points.

   You Demos are amazing.....you created the Supers but didn't know how to set them up to be DECISIVE. Either Obama or Clinton losing out with a margin of less than 4~5% of all delegates, with Repubs voting in your Primaries, and with undemocratic caucus system.......the only folks loving this are of course, us Repubs :~)

   Posted by Happy at 03/17/2008 @ 10:53pm

9. Two gray heads go over really well in Florida, last I heard.

   Posted by davefoley0 at 03/17/2008 @ 10:53pm

10. RE: Florida Fiasco ... Well, let's Mr. Obama's message of inclusiveness. We've had this all before, with Dubya's claim on all those "compassionate" and "reformer with purposes". So your inclusiveness concerns your acolytes only? Hollow, empty, although full of chicken sh- t.

    ------------

    Florida Democrats Won't Vote Again, Official Says

    By JOHN M. BRODER Published: March 18, 2008 WASHINGTON -- The Florida Democratic Party chairwoman on Monday officially buried the possibility of redoing the state's disputed January presidential primary, saying there was no practical or affordable way to conduct a new election.

    The Caucus: Share Your Thoughts: Online Voting in Michigan and Florida? (March 17, 2008) Florida Democrats Give Up on Mail-In Vote (March 17, 2008)

    Posted by HelenDAO at 03/17/2008 @ 10:58pm

11. Two gray heads -- nationally might be a negative. I think Obama campaign would prefer Crist to say Condi

    Posted by winyahn at 03/17/2008 @ 11:08pm

12. So what exactly is Thurman proposing? That her state's delegates not be seated at all? Or that HRC take her share of the cookies scooped up against party rules? And Obama gets the crumbs where he wasn't allowed to campaign? What is Thurman being promised by Billary, any guesses? And is it starting to sound disturbingly familiar to a certain Ms. Harris's shifty behavior in FL '00?

    Posted by sloper at 03/18/2008 @ 12:02am

13. Here we are in mid-March, Obama is NOT nearly the Magic Negro parodied by Rush and the Clintons have been proven to be like what the Repubs have known for much longer

    Yes, Happy you are a lilly white skin Republican with such prejudice that you see the devil when there is no money - I mean selfish Republicans- involved.

    Be it caucuses or primaries, Dems have participated democratically in a proportion of probably 10:1 compared to your party which when the chief says "Bow, Happy", you bow. Our problem may be excess of democracy, yours is play democracy, don't really believing in it.

    Posted by Frank42 at 03/18/2008 @ 01:15am

14. It seems to be the latest political fashion among the pundit class to carry water for Clinton by attacking Dean (no surprise with Nichols--he can't help himself). It is no secret that the Clintons despise Dean, he was, after all, the first to threaten to upset Billary's applecart--and that is when you saw the claws and fangs come up behind the false smiles. The Clintonistas got their meme out there in the ether and it echos off the walls---Dean is a lousy leader--Dean failed it this--and that and pushed by the Carvilles and the McAuliffes and their inside players who have always resented the Dean movement to take the party back. no one ever questions it. And here is Nichols, just another flak, helping to pass the manufactured conventional view along. Dean has done a damn good job of putting states, written off by the DLC, in their strategy of competing for the Rights cesspoll of corporate pay out-- back into play. It is Dean that has stood firm and tenacious in not allowing those who break the rules to get away with it, without consequences. If the leader doesn't stand firm and allows the Clintonistas to set the agenda, he is nothing but another yes-man to the Clintons lock on the party--and the rules become irrelevant. The Clintons have kept the Democrats at a stalemate and their shadow over the party prevents new leaders and effective alternatives from emerging and setting a new course. The clintonistas would rather the Democrats lose if winning means they would have to catch a bus back to Arkansas.

    Posted by Lil at 03/18/2008 @ 07:31am

15. Well, I tell ya.....we are rapidly approaching THE best example of "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory" that you'll ever see.

    Worst Presidency in decades...maybe forever....and the opposition, supposedly "the smartest people in the room", screwing it up for themselves.

    And what the hell kind of nomination does Hillary think she's going to win for herself? Tricks, seated delegates who shouldn't be seated, and super-delegates...and she thinks after it's all over end of August that the Party (not even the country) is going to rally to her?

    HAPPY, ready to revise my November prediction!

    Posted by Mask at 03/18/2008 @ 09:13am

16. FUCCK THE IDIOTS AT THE DNC.

    Posted by LIBSWARNEDU 03/18/2008 @ 09:06am

    I read Thurman's letter on the Florida Democratic Party site last night. It's really not clear how they arrived at the decision to bail. Still, I blame the DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee for the mess.

    I don't know how much more of this soap opera we can take here in FL. Seems nobody is in agreement as to how to go about settling the issue.

    Posted by jackwells at 03/18/2008 @ 09:27am

17. Posted by JOMAMMA 03/18/2008 @ 12:54am | ignore this person

    yer outta yer gourd. this will NEVER happen.

    Posted by emile duBois at 03/18/2008 @ 11:41am

18. Edmund Burke, in his speech to the electors of Bristol:

    'Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgement; and he betrays instead of serving you if he sacrifices it to your opinion.'

    Posted by HonestLiberal at 03/18/2008 @ 11:43am

19. Posted by MASK 03/18/2008 @ 09:13am

    Careful Mask, the Clintons own a ouija board.

    Posted by ACook at 03/18/2008 @ 12:19pm

20. Posted by ACOOK 03/18/2008 @ 12:19pm

    Well, still holding out SOME hope that "Four more years! Four more years! Four more years!" (i.e. the McCain campaign) will be rejected.

    Posted by Mask at 03/18/2008 @ 12:43pm

21. It is absolutely un-American what Howard Dean is doing to the people of Florida. It was a fair vote and if anyone should pay it should be Iowa. The votes were taken away from Florida and Michigan to benefit Iowa. Is that fair? I think not. As for Michigan, if Dems voted for Republicans in the primary, their vote counted and they should not be allowed to vote again. The only vote that didn't count were the ones who voted Democrat. So those Democrats who voted Republican should not be allowed to vote again. There is no other viewpoint or fair way or logical way to look at it.

    Posted by sienna at 03/18/2008 @ 8:45pm

22. Howard Dean is not the Problem Folks!

    Dean is developing DISCIPLINE in the party. Think about it. Do you let 2 kids in your classroom ruin the day for the rest of the class?? Nope! And you would chastise any teacher who did! So why let two states run amock and do whatever they want??? RULES ARE RULES!

    48 STATES abided by the rules. Why couldn't Florida (and Michigan)?? The leadership of the party at the STATE LEVEL IS TO BLAME. NOT HOWARD DEAN

    Posted by ajdjr73 at 03/18/2008 @ 11:22pm

23. The leadership of the party at the STATE LEVEL IS TO BLAME. NOT HOWARD DEAN

    Posted by AJDJR73 03/18/2008 @ 11:22pm

    How come the Republicans Party, state and national, found a solution that worked for both? DISCIPLINE is great and if you EXPELLED each student after any infraction, pretty soon you'll have perfect DISCIPLINE everyday.......no students left!

    Posted by Happy at 03/18/2008 @ 11:34pm

24. The DNC and the state of Florida need to split the cost. They have to have an election. They can't risk alienating the Florida voters in the Presidential. I do however put the blame squarely on the Florida Democratic leadership. Howard Dean is the only guy who has a clue with his 50 state strategy.

    Posted by Dethtol at 03/19/2008 @ 01:17am

25. doing nothing for now is best. keep them all guessing. make a deal at the convention, that's what it's for.

    Posted by emile duBois at 03/19/2008 @ 09:09am

26. The DNC and the state of Florida need to split the cost.....I do however put the blame squarely on the Florida Democratic leadership.

    Posted by DETHTOL 03/19/2008 @ 01:17am

    Why should the "state of Florida" pay for a re-vote for just registered Demos? Don't you think Repubs, Indies and other voters who pay FL taxes maybe even more upset at the Demos?

    BTW, playing the `blame' game is why there is NO solution.....as is so many things in life.

    Posted by Happy at 03/19/2008 @ 12:06pm