The Wright Stuff

Sermons of Rev. Jeremiah Wright of Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ, otherwise known as Barack Obama's pastor, are circulating wildly around the internet the last 24 hours. They show Wright passionately denouncing racism against blacks in America, in sometimes sharp language, and pointing out the ills of American foreign policy pre-9/11. Fox News and the right-wing blogosphere are outraged, the mainstream media is eagerly amplifying the selected sermons and the Clinton campaign is delighting that Obama's Chicago ties are receiving serious scrutiny.

Before delving into the specifics, there's a bit of irony here. Democrats have been told over and over that they need to get religion. And then when a candidate like Obama comes around--who regularly attends church and speaks about his faith in an inclusive, authentic way--he's attacked for which church he attends. It's a lose-lose situation! Before the primary Obama was accused of not being black enough. Now he's too black. To the right-wing and much of the media, Rev. Wright is just the latest evidence of Obama's radical black nationalist past. (See my latest Nation article, "Smearing Obama," for an anatomy of the smear campaign hatched against Obama.)

Wright has always been an outspoken maverick and some of his words will likely turn some voters off, although these are probably people who would never vote for a Democrat anyway. You'd expect that, in the heat of an election, he'd be a little bit more tactful about what he says, though he did retire last month. Yes, Obama borrowed the title of one of Wright's sermons, "The Audacity of Hope," for his most recent book. But Wright's words, by and large, are not Obama's. Their connection is a personal one, not political.

And, by the way, how come righteous Republicans are rarely asked about the views of their spiritual advisers? Or why wasn't George W. Bush (and the presidents preceding him) forced to distance himself from the anti-semitic comments of Billy Graham?

Over at TPM Cafe, MJ Rosenberg of the Israel Policy Forum makes a great point about the separation that should exist between congregation and congregant:

I've been a member of a conservative Jewish congregation for 25 years. I love the rabbi but not his sermons on Israel and the Palestinians. He is a total Israel hawk. To put it mildly, I am not. I am all about the two-state solution (the so-called Clinton plan).

Even worse, the congregation has become the favorite of Washington's neocons including the worst warmonger of all: Douglas Feith. The idea of communing with God together with a thug like Feith is sickening to me. Then there is Charles Krauthammer who, in 2001, disrupted Yom Kippur services by bellowing at the rabbi for expressing, in the most general terms, the desire for Middle East peace. The worst moment I've ever had at my congregation was when a visiting rabbi from Europe (he comes every year for the High Holy Days) devoted an entire sermon to the value of hate. "To everything there is a season. This is a season for hate." He was talking about the Palestinians. I almost puked.

And yet I am a member of this congregation and will remain one. Why? As I said, I like the rabbi (the regular one, not the annual visitor) despite disagreeing strongly with many of his views. More important, this is the congregation that my kids grew up in. This is where their Bar Mitzvahs took place. The people there (not the war criminals though) are kind of like family. It's home. Probably how Obama feels about his church.

The bottom line is that I am not discredited as a strong supporter of a Palestinian state and the end of the occupation because my rabbi has a different view. Pro-peace Israelis, Palestinians, and other Arabs do not refuse to work with me because I go to the "neocon" synagogue. My writings on Israel/Palestine are not disregarded because my rabbi is a Likud guy.

Of course, not. My rabbi's views are his views. He is my spiritual adviser not my political adviser.

What Wright is saying, moreover, is not particularly radical. The legacy of racism in America--and its existence today--can't simply be ignored or washed away. As one of Wright's church members says of his sermons near the end of a highly skewed ABC News "investigation" into Obama's Chicago church, "I wouldn't call it radical. I'd call it being black in America." Amen.

Comments (256)

1. "They show Wright passionately denouncing racism against blacks in America, in sometimes sharp language, and pointing out the ills of American foreign policy pre-9/11."

   What am I missing. Is it the "sharp language"? What's the fucking problem? Is a church guy not supposed to talk about racism or American foreign policy? I did not KNOW that!

   Posted by MATTMAN at 03/14/2008 @ 2:57pm

2. More swift boat b.s. from the Billary camp.

   Instead, vide the marvellous piece re Obama's mom in today's NYTimes. Now there's something worth writing about & considering ... an extraordinary person. An oasis of inspiration that story in a week of pretty dismal news.

   Posted by sloper at 03/14/2008 @ 2:58pm

3. Of course, not. My rabbi's views are his views. He is my spiritual adviser not my political adviser.

   This where the mainstream press should show some discretion. Political views may say very little about your spiritual views and vice-versa.

   The classic case is the Catholic church in which most priests are against abortion but many church goers are pro-choice. If I play a sermon by a priest on the evil of abortion, does that mean that every person who goes to that church is against choice as well?

   I don't think so, and it is time for the press get smarter about this.

   Posted by Metteyya at 03/14/2008 @ 3:06pm

4. BERMAN: As one of Wright's church members says...."I wouldn't call it radical. I'd call it being black in America." Amen.

   I can't speak for everyone who heard the audio of THE Wright Sermon ragin, but it's clearly anti-America.......but I happen to believe your average Joe and Mary out there--NOT partisan bloggers like us--would have AT LEAST that opinion.....`radical' is a much more difficult adjective and greatly depends on ones' overall grasp of social and economic realities.

   In any case, the quoted church member, and ARI, seem to be telling me, is that "being black in America", as described by Rev. Wright, is being anti-America.

   Posted by Happy at 03/14/2008 @ 3:14pm

5. BERMAN: ...Over at TPM Cafe, MJ Rosenberg of the Israel Policy Forum makes a great point...

   I am not great w/history.....can someone point me to when this guy ran for the Presidency? Otherwise, why is his opinion worth any more than mine? or even Bermans? :)

   Posted by Happy at 03/14/2008 @ 3:17pm

6. Posted by HAPPY 03/14/2008 @ 3:14pm

   "America" means different things to different people. It's not a monolithic and unchanging concept.

   Posted by habiba at 03/14/2008 @ 3:25pm

7. In any case, the quoted church member, and ARI, seem to be telling me, is that "being black in America", as described by Rev. Wright, is being anti-America.

   Wrong!

   Being black in America is loving your country so much that you want to see it succeed on its promise as a source of opportunity for all and a beacon of light to uplift the human condition.

   How is that "anti-American"?

   Posted by Metteyya at 03/14/2008 @ 3:30pm

8. I just want to make sure I understand your bias: it's o.k for the candidate of hope, who claims to be post-racism, and promotes a-feel-good-about-your-country-new-age-pseudo-philosophy to have been listening to/adhering to racial/sexist venom for 20 years? Wow, that takes an enormous suspension of disbelief...Is it true that literally nothing could come to light about BHO that might, just might make some of you think twice? And I thought this was an online community of intellectuals! You know what they say about a foolish consistency!

   Posted by KJW at 03/14/2008 @ 3:57pm

9. "America" means different things to different people.

   Posted by HABIBA 03/14/2008 @ 3:25pm

   Certainly! But let's add a couple of words......

   Is there any question in anyones' mind, other than cultists of BH Obama, as to the meaning of "God Damn America"?

   Posted by Happy at 03/14/2008 @ 4:06pm

10. "Wright has always been an outspoken maverick and some of his words will likely turn some voters off, although these are probably people who would never vote for a Democrat anyway. "

    Yeah, sorry, Mr Berman, but...radicalism just doesn't sell to the independents and moderates, and a FAIR number of Democrats aren't too keen on it too.

    If Obama were a Republican who graduated from Bob Jones...or attended church with Falwell or Robertson....I think you might take a different tack.

    I don't know if HAPPY and RIO and the boys (and of course the Hillary contingent) should consider this a "deal breaker"....but they definitely have good cause for being gleeful.

    Posted by Mask at 03/14/2008 @ 4:06pm

11. This appeared in the DailyKos and may help shed some light on the Rev. Wright thing:

    That clip from Rev. Wright's Sermon was a barn burner! Whoo!

    Why is he so angry? And how dare he say 'God damn America'?

    In this diary, I intend to examine each and every one of his claims from the clip to see if anything he said makes any sens at all. Please follow me belos the fold...

    * smhbubbles's diary :: :: *

    First let's examine the first claim.

    Rev. Wright: "They give us the drugs."

    Unfortunately, that is a true and well documented statement. Anyone old enough to remember the Iran Contra hearings will remember that the illegal operation was financed by the CIA through the sale of crack cocaine. As the dailykos community has debated the injustice of disparate sentencing guidelines, most of us are aware that black and latino communities were targeted to receive the crack and suffered devestating effects because of it. Worse still, many of the evil geniuses who brought us Iran Contra have been prominently featured in George Bush's government where they have presided over rendition, torture, murder and all the other skills they picked up in the 1980s.

    Rev. Wright: "They built bigger prisons."

    Yes, the U.S. government expanded prisons and built new ones including assistance to the growing private prison industry. Only last week, I read diaries on this website expressing dismay at the rate of adult incarceration in this country. Rev. WRight is merely connecting the dots.

    Rev. Wright: "Passes a three strike law."

    Who can deny the truth of this? This is only one of the laws that disproportionately impacts the poor and people of color.

    Rev. Wright: "...and then they want us to say, God Bless America. Naw, naw, naw...God Damn America."

    Here is the thing. You don't have to be black to see and agree with Rev. Wright's case against America. In the clip he referrs to South African Apartheid as state sponsored terrorism and points out the United STates supported the system for years. Who here disagrees with that characterization? He has not said anything in his clip that I have not seen the mostly white bloggers here at dailykos saying for the last several years. I think most Kossacks who visited Wright's church would find themselves nodding their heads in agreement most of the time during his sermons. I know, I do.

    But...even accepting the truth of the case against our country, we all have a choice to make. We can either damn America as Rev. Wright does or we can resolve to save America.

    Barack Obama is just young enough to have reached the conclusion that America is worth saving. And because we can see the palpable strength of his belief in this country, many of us who are weary, are able to give the political process one more try. And new people who tune out politics are willing to get involved.

    I realize that people in this country have no long term memory. But some individuals do. And to condemn a man for stating matters of public record from the pulpit is the definition of cynicism. -DailyKos

    Posted by Metteyya at 03/14/2008 @ 4:24pm

12. We are in the TMZ/Britney Spears part of the campaign, where issues have entirely left the building.

    The point of this whole exercise is to recast Obama as a black radical. It's politics, folks. And, whatever your opinion on Wright, it's just going to distract voters from discussing Obama's positions on issues. That's why it's bad news.

    The only possible upside is that this issue clearly shows everyone that Obama is, in fact, a Christian.

    Posted by nepat at 03/14/2008 @ 4:25pm

13. Posted by METTEYYA 03/14/2008 @ 4:24pm

    I look forward to someone citing all those points on behalf of BHO, on as many networks as possible....heck, it owuld have the biggest impact to have Michelle or BHO himself, to explain to us! Besides, gives BHO a chance to rehearse this when he, IF he wins the Nom, debates McCain!

    BTW, you know America does NOT look like Kos heads, right?

    Posted by Happy at 03/14/2008 @ 4:29pm

14. Posted by HAPPY 03/14/2008 @ 4:06pm

    When you look at the context of Wright's sermon as seen in my last post, it is clear that the reverend was saying "God Damn America" instead of "God Bless America" for failing in its promise, for continuing to treat black and brown men with contempt by pushing crack cocaine in black and brown neighborhoods, for using three strikes as a method of locking up more black and brown people, and building more prisons to help "prison industries" get slave labor wages for their profit making ventures.

    This oppression of black and brown people is NOT something "any" American should be proud of, and Barack holds out the promise of making all American proud again.

    You can either revolt and tear down the system, or you can reform the system so that it works for all Americans. Barack has chosen the latter, and I don't think that is something that even pastor Wright would question.

    Posted by Metteyya at 03/14/2008 @ 4:33pm

15. ....but they definitely have good cause for being gleeful.

    Posted by MASK 03/14/2008 @ 4:06pm

    I actually didn't want the scrutiny on Obama's church skeletons....until after the Nomation and only if he won over HRC.......Hillary should have attacked this long, long ago when she realized she's lost the black votes post-SC. I'm not sure who dug into this "God damn America" clip.....could be Hillary's operatives....just don't know, for her, better late than never is enough......however effective this `clip' is, the Repubs can learn smething out of this.....the Wright `vein' is rich and long....lots of stuff for the `Discovery' phase.

    Posted by Happy at 03/14/2008 @ 4:33pm

16. Barack Obama is just young enough to have reached the conclusion that America is worth saving. And because we can see the palpable strength of his belief in this country, many of us who are weary, are able to give the political process one more try. And new people who tune out politics are willing to get involved.--Daily Kos----Posted by METTEYYA 03/14/2008 @ 4:24pm

    Here's the problem politically, METTE.....Kos doesn't need to be saying that.

    Obama does.

    And until he does...this, for the next six weeks and then Her Majesty winning Pennsylvania?....will make a LOT of ....super-delegates very nervous about supporting Obama.

    (whereas uptil now they've been nervous about supporting her!)

    Posted by Mask at 03/14/2008 @ 4:35pm

17. When you look at the context of Wright's sermon...

    Posted by METTEYYA 03/14/2008 @ 4:33pm

    Do political ads take "context" into consideration? Do folks like you mocking McCain's singing "Bomb Iran" ever explain the "context" of his singing? When you see video of Winter Soldiers, do you think of the broad "context" of their goals? Heard of "Politics is combat by other means"?

    Posted by Happy at 03/14/2008 @ 4:39pm

18. Posted by HAPPY 03/14/2008 @ 4:06pm

    "God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people . . . God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

    How is his statement any more anti-American than other religious figures who have made public speeches saying that America is going to hell in a handbasket because of abortion, gay rights, etc?

    Posted by habiba at 03/14/2008 @ 4:39pm

19. I actually didn't want the scrutiny on Obama's church skeletons....until after the Nomation and only if he won over HRC.......---Posted by HAPPY 03/14/2008 @ 4:33pm

    Well, yes, of course. As we've already aired out....McCain can't win on the issues.

    Posted by Mask at 03/14/2008 @ 4:49pm

20. Posted by HABIBA 03/14/2008 @ 4:39pm

    Remember what Robertson and Falwell said in the wake of 9/11???

    Posted by Mask at 03/14/2008 @ 4:50pm

21. Posted by HAPPY 03/14/2008 @ 4:39pm

    That is the politics pf the PAST. Americans are tired of smears, distortions, and guilt by association tactics, and this is one of the key reasons Hillary is losing to Obama.

    Posted by Metteyya at 03/14/2008 @ 4:53pm

22. Posted by MASK 03/14/2008 @ 4:50pm

    "We have allowed rampant secularism and occult, et cetera, to be broadcast on television. We have permitted somewhere in the neighborhood of 35 to 40 million unborn babies to be slaughtered in our society. We have a Court that has essentially stuck its finger in God's eye and said, 'We're going to legislate you out of the schools, we're going to take your Commandments from off the courthouse steps in various states, we're not going to let little children read the Commandments of God, we're not going to let the Bible be read -- no prayer in our schools.' We have insulted God at the highest levels of our government. And, then we say 'why does this happen?' Well, why its happening is that God Almighty is lifting His protection from us."

    Posted by habiba at 03/14/2008 @ 4:59pm

23. Remember what Robertson and Falwell said in the wake of 9/11???

    Posted by MASK 03/14/2008 @ 4:50pm

    Did they baptize McCains' two sons? give him `mentorship' or guidance? Did McCain refer them as `uncle'?

    As much as we like to think issues OUGHT to drive elections, the reality is not the case. Issues are often complex, Iraq is an excellent example, UHC even more so! Most folks will want to vote for somebody they can `IDENTIFY' with.......the process of actually finding out, identifying if you will, who or what shaped Magic, is finally underway. Guess the media is starting to get some reversal of `thrills up the legs'....besides, Rev. Wright is good for business, he's controversial....too bad Farrakhan wasn't a member of same church!

    Posted by Happy at 03/14/2008 @ 5:01pm

24. That was Pat Robertson talking about the September 11th attacks. Thank [insert cosmic force here] I'm an agnostic! ;)

    Posted by habiba at 03/14/2008 @ 5:01pm

25. You know, I am often amazed at just how much white people don't get it regarding the experiences of blacks in America.

    And you know something, you don't even have to go all the way back to the Middle Passage to talk about how smacked about black people have been by America. Hell, you don't even have to go back to the '60s, although that is as good a place as any to start.

    You need only go back to the '90s, when crack dealers were getting life in prison while cocaine dealers were merely getting their Park Avenue townhouses confiscated. Or the 2000s where prisons were being built faster than anyone could fill them.

    And don't get me started on the constant demands by the larger society that we strip ourselves of our culture and become this homogenous, white-bread mass in order to be considered more "American". That's why you assholes on the right keep bringing up Sen. Obama's middle name.

    Here's a little education for you: in Kenya, where Obama's father is from (he's a "junior" by the way), Hussein is a common name. In fact, it's a favored one. If you got your heads out of your asses, left Deer Country every once in awhile, and saw the rest of the fucking world, this wouldn't be a news flash for you!

    But it is. And for that I fault the large conglomerates that run the news media these days. The first thing that gets shut down in a budget cut is foreign bureaus. Because we have a guy who can be considered an internationalist running for president right now, the knowledge we could get from other places around the world (not counting Iraq, which we own), would be invaluable. In fact, it might just take a useless campaign snipe out of the rotation and make it so the issues could be clearly and consisely focused on.

    Now I may not agree with how Rev. Wright has presented himself, but what he (and a great deal of my friends) feel about how people of color have been treated in this country is legitimate. If some of you could slip the bonds of your white, male priviledge for five minutes, you might realize that.

    But then again, I'd be asking for too much. Many of you are quite comfortable with how out of touch you are on these issues.

    Posted by edwriter at 03/14/2008 @ 5:09pm

26. We are in the TMZ/Britney Spears part of the campaign, where issues have entirely left the building.

    Posted by NEPAT 03/14/2008 @ 4:25pm

    Apparently so. Evidently, guilt by association is much more important to the MSM than any policy positions. Shame on the Clintons if they try to leverage this tangential episode.

    Posted by jackwells at 03/14/2008 @ 5:13pm

27. One silver lining for the Obama campaign: at least now people won't think he's a Muslim- just a radical Afro-centric evangelical.

    Posted by Billy_Budd at 03/14/2008 @ 5:13pm

28. Posted by EDWRITER 03/14/2008 @ 5:09pm

    How are Africans treating Africans these days?

    Posted by usc1 at 03/14/2008 @ 5:18pm

29. ....we strip ourselves of our culture...

    Posted by EDWRITER 03/14/2008 @ 5:09pm

    You don't know much on the root of your "culture"! It's is the Deep South culture of the Antebellum days. Thomas Sowell couldn't wait for black folks--he's a black from Harlem--to dump this "culture" he defines as "Black Redneck" culture left over from the Scottish and Northern England lower-classes that immigrated to the American South. After the Emancipation, Southern blacks moved enmass north and spread. You need to read the chapters "The Real History of Slavery" and "Black Education" (in his book Black Rednecs, White Liberals) to see how much regret he has in the alleged progress of the black masses since the 1960s'. He detest the Brown vs. The Board of Education decision which ruined excellent black high schools like Dunbar HS in D.C.

    Posted by Happy at 03/14/2008 @ 5:24pm

30. How are Africans treating Africans these days?

    Posted by USC1 03/14/2008 @ 5:18pm

    Now you've done it....touchy cultural issue!

    Posted by Happy at 03/14/2008 @ 5:25pm

31. All of what you are saying is not the point. The point is he can never win now, not only because of the remarks by his pastor/mentor/spiritual advisor, but because he has been unarguably exposed as a flagrant hypocrite after his unfair attacks on Ferraro, etc. Unfortunately Obama has lost me because he lacked the good judgement and moral integrity to get out of that church the first time he witnessed the man spewing racial hate. I mean, do you hang out with racists? I don't. And I certainly would never call one my spiritual advisor. But because of this Obama is finished now. Believe me. Finished. He cannot separate himself from this - all the apologies of Obama supporters can't change that. The videos are simply too strong - the attacks against the US are too strong, and the attacks against the Clintons are too filthy. Everyone who stays on the Obama train now are like Nader in 2000. They will get McCain elected. If Obama wins the nomination, that's what will happen now. Bank on it. Please, you can't be so naive as to think that during a time when we are in two wars and facing an economic meltdown that a man with no record to speak of can get elected in this country when he has had the lousy judgement to associate with and make this racist his spiritual advisor. People are not going to wonder if he was in the pew the day Wright was screaming God D*** America, they are only going to be horrified that for 20 years he followed and supported this man. Please get off the Obama train so we don't wind up with McCain. Please. Obama's loss is inevitable now.

    Posted by rj percy at 03/14/2008 @ 5:49pm

32. Posted by HAPPY 03/14/2008 @ 5:24pm

    Sowell is a conservative hack that conservative whites hide behind when they want to attack black people. He is completely insensitive to the psychological legacy of slavery, which accounts for the difference in incomes between immigrant blacks and natives. In one of his first books, entilted "Markets and Minorities", he argues that all blacks have to do is act like immigrants and they will fine.

    It is great that Sowell was a loner and no good at sports, and was therefore able to hang out at the libraries in NYC without feeling any peer pressure by other black kids. But this is NOT the reality that most blacks face, and until these psychological shackles are addressed, Sowell's "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" rhetoric comes up empty.

    The irony, is electing Barack Obama for president will do a lot more for the psychological welfare of black people than any of Sowells lectures. Sowell should be rooting for Obama rather than continuing to play the black shield role that shields conservative whites from being labeled a racist for attacking black people.

    Posted by Metteyya at 03/14/2008 @ 5:59pm

33. Ooooooooo GOTCHA! In bed with a bigot! It's over fella!

    McCain Embraces Endorsement from Anti-Catholic, Anti-Gay, Anti-Muslim Televangelist John Hagee

    Posted by winyahn at 03/14/2008 @ 6:08pm

34. Posted by RJ PERCY 03/14/2008 @ 5:49pm

    RJ PERCY(FRANKGRITS heheh),

    You are doing Hillary no good with your race-baiting guilt-by-association attacks. Hillary is a pathetic candidate that wouldn't even be a US senator if she didn't have the Clinton last name.

    You have not only FAILED to explain how Rev. Wright is a "racist", you seem to be joining forces with the swift-boating Republicans, which I don't think the "Democrats" in the next few primaries are going to feel too good about.

    Hillary had a 20 point lead in PA a couple of weeks ago, now it is down to 11. If Barack ends up beating her in 6 weeks, this will be another example of Hillary's race-baiting coming back to bite her, as it is WHITE voters who want to move beyond race and are completely turned off by Hillary's constant efforts to remind us of Barack's "blackness".

    You know as well as Hillary, that Barack is A LOT more than race, and that fact that Hillary could not inspire a bullfrog, and has no political ability whatsoever, as evidenced by her failed healthcare initiative, has not been lost on the American people!

    Posted by Metteyya at 03/14/2008 @ 6:09pm

35. From the mountains, to the prairies, to the oceans white with foam, God damn America, my home sweet home, God damn America, my home sweet home....

    Posted by feinfein at 03/14/2008 @ 6:09pm

36. MCCAIN embraces not denounces - not rejects - the endorsement from Anti-Catholic, Anti-Gay, Anti-Muslim Televangelist John Hagee

    Embraces... with vague qualification. "Obviously" he doesn't agree with everything the Pastor says.

    MSM response: "oh, OK"

    SWIFTBOATERS&SWIFTBOATLOVERS&SWIFTBOATERS&SWIFTBOATLOVERS&SWIFTBOATERS&S WIFTBOATLOVERS&SWIFTBOATERS&SWIFTBOATLOVERS&SWIFTBOATERS&SWIFTBOATLOVERS

    Posted by winyahn at 03/14/2008 @ 6:38pm

37. How ironic, if Obama falters and the superdelegates decide the downside risks are just too great to go w/Obama......

    Had the black voters themselves been more even-handed in splitting between Magic & HRC, say 60/40, the overall racial overtone wouldn't be nearly as heavy and detrimental to Obama! Now, Obama is clearly known as the Black Candidate who attended for 20 years, a black church w/strong strain of anti-Americanism! I still like the guy over HRC, just not as my President for now. After a term as Governor of IL, stay out of Emperor Club, we'll see!

    Posted by Happy at 03/14/2008 @ 6:43pm

38. Posted by JOMAMMA 03/14/2008 @ 5:44pm

    Your assessment discounts the legacies of European colonialism, environmental racism, habitat destruction, and epidemic disease, none of which any Africans ever asked for.

    Not denouncing you, I'm just saying, you're trying to compare apples to oranges...

    Posted by nicR at 03/14/2008 @ 6:46pm

39. Obama is not gay, not Muslim, not Mormon, not in the Skull & Bones club, not in the Carlyle Group, did not make deals with Saddam in the 80s, did not shoot Vince Foster, play White Water in Iowa, earn zillions from Halliburton or declare "Mission Accomplished".

    He loves America and Jesus too.

    Posted by winyahn at 03/14/2008 @ 6:49pm

40. Had the black voters themselves been more even-handed in splitting between Magic & HRC, say 60/40, the overall racial overtone wouldn't be nearly as heavy and detrimental to Obama!

    Posted by HAPPY 03/14/2008 @ 6:43pm

    The overall racial overtone? What does that mean, Happy?

    People are forgetting that, just a few months ago, more Blacks WERE going for Hillary...then there were some incidents in South Carolina & elsewhere which demonstrated the Clintons' clear disdain for black people (there is a clear disdain for anyone who doesn't offer blind support).

    Now, some whites are surprised/disturbed that blacks are overwhelmingly supporting the more inspirational candidate?! I don't get it...

    Posted by nicR at 03/14/2008 @ 6:53pm

41. If Rev.Wright disdains this country so much, what not pack his shit and leave.

    America may not be perfect be there's not tens of thousands of people trying to get into Iran, Iraq, Kenya, China, Chile, Cameroon, Thiland, Indonesia, or anywhere else.

    Fuck the racist motherfucker...

    Posted by bleedingheart at 03/14/2008 @ 7:11pm

42. Had the black voters themselves been more even-handed in splitting between Magic & HRC, say 60/40, the overall racial overtone wouldn't be nearly as heavy and detrimental to Obama!

    When Bill Clinton was getting 90% of the black vote rather than Sharpton, no one complained. Why is that? Blacks can only get excited about a white candidate, and if they get excited about a "black" candidate they are racist?

    This is all part of Hillary's strategy to try to shame black voters into supporting her. It won't work.

    Hillary doesn't appeal to blacks because she is too much top-down and not enough bottom-up. Her appeal only works with well-off blacks that are playing the same insider-connection game that Hillary is used to. That doesn't work with common black folk, as they know they are not going to get invited to the White House for tea with Hillary.

    Obama, on the other hand, with his grassroots appeal, is telling blacks and whites that he wants to include them in our government for the first time, and he wants to be the first "citizen president" that will listen to ordinary people before signing off on legislation. What a breath of fresh air, not only for blacks, but for all ordinary folks that have been left out of the process.

    Posted by Metteyya at 03/14/2008 @ 7:22pm

43. I still like the guy over HRC, just not as my President for now. After a term as Governor of IL, stay out of Emperor Club, we'll see!-----Posted by HAPPY 03/14/2008 @ 6:43pm

    We'll "see" what? You going to try and tell us you'd vote for ANY Democrat ('cept maybe Joe the Schmoe)???

    Posted by Mask at 03/14/2008 @ 7:34pm

44. Why is it. When McCain received endorsements from Hagee, and all he did was say I reject his anti-catholic views, never once saying he didn't want his endorsement, all the conservatives on this site were fine with that. But when Obama says he doesn't support Anti-semitic views everyone assumes he must be lying?

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/14/2008 @ 7:36pm

45. On his campaign bus recently, Sen. John McCain told reporters, "I hated the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live." Although McCain said he was referring only to his prison guards, there are many reasons why his use of the word "gook" is offensive and alarming

    There is McCain making a racial remark about a group. Hmm came out of his mouth not the mouth of someone else.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/14/2008 @ 7:37pm

46. This is kind of an old story, but anyone still up in the air on McCain ought to know about it. Seems McCain is raising money for George Wallace's son (yes, that George Wallace). Well, Junior Wallace hasn't exactly atoned for the sins of the father. Turns out he's a close friend of the Council of Conservative Citizens. Here's some info for the uninitiated. Basically, the CCC is the Klan without the bedsheets. So, why would McCain endorse and raise money for a white supremacist? Sounds like a good question for the next tour of the "Straight Talk Express".

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/14/2008 @ 7:40pm

47. McCain's chief South Carolina Spokesman is Richard Quinn, founder and editor in chief of the magazine "Southern Heritage". According to Salon.com:

    Quinn's articles have called Nelson Mandela a "terrorist" and King a man "whose role in history was to lead his people into a perpetual dependence on the welfare state, a terrible bondage of body and soul." In another piece, Quinn said of former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke, "What better way to reject politics as usual than to elect a maverick like David Duke?"…

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/14/2008 @ 7:41pm

48. Doesn't seem too hard to attach people to racists.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/14/2008 @ 7:43pm

49. Had the black voters themselves been more even-handed in splitting between Magic & HRC, say 60/40, the overall racial overtone wouldn't be nearly as heavy and detrimental to Obama!

    And what about Schummer or Lieberman or Feinstein's Jewish support? No one complains when 90% of the Jews vote for these candidates, or when 90% of the Mormons vote for Mitt Romney.

    We really need to check ourselves on this affinity group thing, as only allowing non-black affinity groups to support their candidate IS racist!

    Posted by Metteyya at 03/14/2008 @ 7:43pm

50. "Had the black voters themselves been more even-handed in splitting between Magic & HRC, say 60/40, the overall racial overtone wouldn't be nearly as heavy and detrimental to Obama!"

    Why is it when most of the whites were voting for Edwards and HRC it was fine. When most of the blacks are voting for the black man it racism. Not because he stands for something they believe in. Something that would help them as a people. No because they aren't intelligent enough to realize that. They are just voting because he is black.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/14/2008 @ 7:47pm

51. Because we have a guy who can be considered an internationalist running for president right now,

    Posted by EDWRITER 03/14/2008 @ 5:09pm

    Ed, I couldn't have said it better myself.....And Barry Oh! is just doing his internationalist duty, like you are, trying to make us foolish rednecks see the light...

    This calls for the Obama Chant!

    Hope for change, hope for change, change, change, hope, hope!

    (Makes ya wanna be a citizen of the world, like Barry Oh! (Course, I can't, 'cause I ain't multiculti like obamie....)

    Posted by TransitDave at 03/14/2008 @ 7:50pm

52. Posted by CCCOMFO1 03/14/2008 @ 7:41pm

    At this point, CCC....McCain doesn't even have to bring this stuff up.

    He'll let the surrogates (Limbaugh, Hannity, Fox, 527s, the Right Bloggies) do it and stay "above the fray"...even condemn it...just as Her Nibs is doing (and did with Ferraro).

    But it does show one thing...they (including HRC of course) are scared s**tless of Obama and don't think they can beat him on personality OR the issues. Otherwise, they wouldn't be lobbing the Big Bertha artillery NOW to try to de-rail his shot at the nomination.

    Posted by Mask at 03/14/2008 @ 7:50pm

53. Posted by TRANSITDAVE 03/14/2008 @ 7:50pm

    BTW, DAVE, you know what the McCain chant is, don't you?

    Four More Years!...Four More Years!...Four More Years!

    Posted by Mask at 03/14/2008 @ 7:51pm

54. Statistically you can make the exact same race argument. Instead of race, let's have a look at income. Wow! Turns out poor folks in Mississippi are racist. Conclusion: hating whites leads to an inability to make $.

    Obama loves this country. Hating him and using bogus logic to both diffuse and vent your feelings is something he is relatively accustomed to. But because the MSM spews each new twist on the old venom, he has to try and balance responding with his preference for focusing on issues. Most of this sort of logic is 2004 recycled. Remember evil, un-American Kerry.

    Posted by winyahn at 03/14/2008 @ 8:06pm

55. Posted by EDWRITER 03/14/2008 @ 5:09pm

    EDWRITER's comments and Rev. Wrights comments are going to play well in Ohio, Penn., NY, Missouri and Florida. These are heavy blue collar uberpatriotic states that wont vote for anyone associated with these sentiments. As with Michelles, "This is the first time I have ever been proud of America" comment,this will kill the Obama race!

    Posted by Blome at 03/14/2008 @ 8:12pm

56. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barack-obama/on-my-faith-and-my-church_b_9 1623.html

    Posted by ttr at 03/14/2008 @ 8:18pm

57. oops, sorry... the link was too long, so here's the first part the article in Huffington written by Obama today.

    The pastor of my church, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who recently preached his last sermon and is in the process of retiring, has touched off a firestorm over the last few days. He's drawn attention as the result of some inflammatory and appalling remarks he made about our country, our politics, and my political opponents.

    Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue.

    Because these particular statements by Rev. Wright are so contrary to my own life and beliefs, a number of people have legitimately raised questions about the nature of my relationship with Rev. Wright and my membership in the church. Let me therefore provide some context.

    As I have written about in my books, I first joined Trinity United Church of Christ nearly twenty years ago. I knew Rev. Wright as someone who served this nation with honor as a United States Marine, as a respected biblical scholar, and as someone who taught or lectured at seminaries across the country, from Union Theological Seminary to the University of Chicago. He also led a diverse congregation that was and still is a pillar of the South Side and the entire city of Chicago. It's a congregation that does not merely preach social justice but acts it out each day, through ministries ranging from housing the homeless to reaching out to those with HIV/AIDS.

    Most importantly, Rev. Wright preached the gospel of Jesus, a gospel on which I base my life. In other words, he has never been my political advisor; he's been my pastor. And the sermons I heard him preach always related to our obligation to love God and one another, to work on behalf of the poor, and to seek justice at every turn...

    (continued)

    Posted by ttr at 03/14/2008 @ 8:27pm

58. 9 1623.html

    should read

    91623.html

    take out the space

    Posted by ttr at 03/14/2008 @ 8:36pm

59. Posted by TTR 03/14/2008 @ 8:27pm

    Anyone think it is odd that, BHO has been attending this church for over 20 years and he has never been there when the Rev has made these types of comments? If the Rev truly believes in these comments, they did not just pop into his head recently, these would be long held beliefs that he would have spoke of often.

    Posted by Blome at 03/14/2008 @ 8:39pm

60. If Mr. O does get the nomination, there will be more and more of these revelations. For some reason, lots of white voters are antipathetic to the extreme America-bashing that Rev. Wright indulges in. The only results of Mr. O's candidacy would be driving more white voters from the Democratic Party and delivering the White House to McCain.

    Posted by feinfein at 03/14/2008 @ 8:49pm

61. BLOME 03/14/2008 @ 8:39pm

    Oh, stop...

    BHO has been attending this church for over 20 years. What has the congregation accomplished? Probably a heck of a lot more than yours... and you have the gall to go "Rush Lim" headlong into another 'swift boating' skirmish over a flagrant rant, in Obama's absence, by an ex "Marine with honors"... taken out of context...

    Hmmmm... shall we do a straight historical analysis of Rush's Inflammations? And then contrast them with his nonexistent public service?

    Posted by ttr at 03/14/2008 @ 9:02pm

62. Seems fair to speculate that Obama appreciates the pastor's spiritual gifts, that ever the years Wright helped foster, strengthen Obama's personal relationship with Jesus. You know the stuff a congregation member might be concerned about.

    Probably another factor is friends over the years, and the Sunday school for his girls. He's just not the type to fear others' projections based on guilt-by-association and therefore did not whine about the idiot remarks Wright's made intermittently.

    Also, seems fair to speculate that Wright was expressing anger not at the Grand Canyon, Lincoln, but at a narrow definition of "America", e.g., the contemporaneous version of "the man", for example, neocons in Washington. You know the same guys that helped out when Katrina hit.

    Just to point to these wretched remarks which Obama did not make and doesn't endorse is not to assert your actual suspicions or speculations. Just more whisper. Speak up, what are you saying exactly?

    Posted by winyahn at 03/14/2008 @ 9:06pm

63. Posted by TTR 03/14/2008 @ 9:02pm

    You might want to stop from jumping to conclusions. I am a very liberal brown skin atheist. So, I have no congregation as you say, and what accomplishments do you even know of? Frankly, anyone who listens to religious rantings can't have good judgment!

    Posted by Blome at 03/14/2008 @ 9:09pm

64. BLOME 03/14/2008 @ 9:09pm

    From Obama's own words in the post above...

    He also led a diverse congregation that was and still is a pillar of the South Side and the entire city of Chicago. It's a congregation that does not merely preach social justice but acts it out each day, through ministries ranging from housing the homeless to reaching out to those with HIV/AIDS.

    Oh yeh... stoopid bible thumpers don't do no good, nohow...

    Posted by ttr at 03/14/2008 @ 9:15pm

65. BLOME Is 'Jesus is Lord' an example of a rant?

    Posted by winyahn at 03/14/2008 @ 9:17pm

66. Also, seems fair to speculate that Wright was expressing anger not at the Grand Canyon, Lincoln, but at a narrow definition of "America" Posted by WINYAHN 03/14/2008 @ 9:06pm

    I like how people are able to assume what the man meant, just to satisfy their own sensibilities. So, can we assume since Don Imus was only talking about certain nappyheaded ho's, that he is not a racist?

    Posted by Blome at 03/14/2008 @ 9:18pm

67. Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/14/2008 @ 8:28pm |

    Oh....yeah...that's COMPLETELY different!

    heheh

    Posted by Mask at 03/14/2008 @ 9:20pm

68. Dude, I own it as my speculation based on the totality of evidence. I could be wrong. You could be right, but it's hard to glean your own personal conclusion. You're posting for a reason. What's your best guess at the implications of this 'scandal'? That Obama has very poor judgment? If yes, in what ways do your worry this might manifest of he were president?

    Posted by winyahn at 03/14/2008 @ 9:24pm

69. i gave obama a chance. at one point i considered voting for him, because as a conservative, i want McCain to lose. No More! Obama IS a racist. There is no way a man can sit next to a blatant " america hating " racist for 20 years, have his children get baptised by him, have him preside over his wedding, have him as one of his closest advisor ...etc. etc. etc. ....AND NOT SHARE AT LEAST SOME OF THE RACIST BELIEFS OF THE RACIST THEY KEEP CLOSE COMPANY WITH! Barack and Michelle Obama are RACISTS, PERIOD! He's DONE ALLLLLLL DONE!!!!!

    Posted by barry25 at 03/14/2008 @ 9:28pm

70. Don Imus was quickly fired, and Wright is now retired or soon will. Next!...

    "...All slanderous incursions need to be filled out in triplicate an inserted into slot 2-b between 10am and 4pm monday through friday in room 2351... which is up the stairs, then left, and then down the hall... third door on the right. Thank you, and have a nice day."

    Posted by ttr at 03/14/2008 @ 9:28pm

71. Posted by TTR 03/14/2008 @ 9:28pm

    Imus is back on the air and the rev is still on obama's staff!

    Posted by Blome at 03/14/2008 @ 9:32pm

72. ergo (??) everyone that attends that church is a racist.

    '08 is going to be a lot of fun.

    Posted by winyahn at 03/14/2008 @ 9:32pm

73. Let's not forget his connections to Farrakkan and make sure you look into how Michelle Obama's salary misteriously TRIPLED right around the time Obama decided to run! And then look into the earmarks pushed by Obama that eventually steered $100,000 to his wife's employer!!!

    Posted by barry25 at 03/14/2008 @ 9:33pm

74. So Obama's even more morally bankrupt than Clinton or McCain?

    Posted by winyahn at 03/14/2008 @ 9:35pm

75. Barack is lying! You cannot listen to and be guided by a man for 20 years without hearing these racist anti-american beliefs! he's done! A TRUE RACIST! Note to all loser libs: the chickens are comin' home baby! How's it feel! Racism is fueled by the left, I've been saying it for a long time, and now it's becomming harder and harder for the MSM to hide this FACT!

    Posted by barry25 at 03/14/2008 @ 9:37pm

76. Far more than McCain from what i Know about him ( i still won't vote for him though ), but how can anyone be any more morally bankrupt than Hillary? Bill maybe?

    Posted by barry25 at 03/14/2008 @ 9:38pm

77. It may have been a million? I'll have to check that one.

    Posted by barry25 at 03/14/2008 @ 9:40pm

78. In what ways do you worry whatever your accusing Obama of might manifest of he were president???

    Think he'll lie about reasons to go to war? Have an affair? Enslave whites?

    Posted by winyahn at 03/14/2008 @ 9:40pm

79. Posted by WINYAHN 03/14/2008 @ 9:24pm

    The final judgment! 1) Obama's takes spiritual advice from a racists...maybe he is not really going to bring the country to a "postracial" state. 2) Obama says he is against the war before he is a senator and then votes to fund the war after he becomes a senator...what kind of logical judgment is that? 3) Rezko a friend for many years in which they brought property adjacent to each other, and oh yeah, the guy is a corrupt pig wearing handcuffs now....bad judgment, well even obama can't argue this one.

    I could go on, but, I don't want to overload you!

    Posted by Blome at 03/14/2008 @ 9:42pm

80. Posted by BARRY25 03/14/2008 @ 9:38pm

    Bee-25, if you're not voting for McCain, Obama, or Hillary....

    who cares what you think? You'll DO nothing about the body politic, except TALK about it.

    Maybe when 2012 rolls around and Sam Brownback or Duncan Hunter try to run again...but until then....so what?

    Posted by Mask at 03/14/2008 @ 9:42pm

81. 1. Wright is right to fight racism in the U.S. 2. Wright is wrong to denounce the U.S. ("Goddamn America", etc) when he lives here under the protection of our country. 3. If you think Wright is right, is Obama wrong for denouncing him? Can Obama be right now that he has denounced Wright, or has Obama now become one of the racist oppressors? 4. You guys at the Nation live safely in the U.S. where you are protected by our laws and system of justice. if you move your paper to one of your pet countries (e.g., Palestine), the Palestinians would probably bomb your offices in about 10 minutes. 5. get real; grow up!

    Posted by nechayev at 03/14/2008 @ 9:42pm

82. All racists are leftists

    All leftists are racists

    therefore

    The chickens are coming home

    Posted by winyahn at 03/14/2008 @ 9:43pm

83. I'm writing in Condi! Does her "blackness" count? It doesn't matter. I like her for HER!

    Posted by barry25 at 03/14/2008 @ 9:47pm

84. Quick! Someone get Obama a stick of Beaman's... He's going for the sound barrier again!

    I think Obama is a decent guy, who tries to do the right thing with the right stuff... and his campaign bodes well for the future of this country.

    It'll take more than this 'sonic boom' to hold him back.

    Posted by ttr at 03/14/2008 @ 9:47pm

85. BLOME: Once more, in what ways do you worry whatever your accusing Obama of might manifest of he were president???

    Posted by winyahn at 03/14/2008 @ 9:47pm

86. I don't want an Ant-american running America, moron!!!! Now that may be a little intolerant for you touchy-feely loser libs, but i kinda like our country!

    Posted by barry25 at 03/14/2008 @ 9:49pm

87. IMO the single biggest risk going forward is the already advanced legal, corporate corruption of government - and Obama will be far superior to Clinton and McCain in this regard.

    Posted by winyahn at 03/14/2008 @ 9:52pm

88. Obama loves America.

    Posted by winyahn at 03/14/2008 @ 9:54pm

89. If you are opposed to decorated war hero McCain are you UnAmerican?

    Posted by winyahn at 03/14/2008 @ 9:56pm

90. BARRY25 03/14/2008 @ 9:49pm | ignore this person

    Ant America is coming! Ant America is coming... and they all march in single file rows and live in garbage and infest hard working American's subflooring...

    They're coming to take us away... Ha Ha... they're coming to take us away!

    Posted by ttr at 03/14/2008 @ 9:56pm

91. Posted by WINYAHN 03/14/2008 @ 9:47pm

    Dude you are dense: 1) As PRESIDENT, maybe he won't bring the country together but, further divide it along racial lines. 2) As PRESIDENT, maybe he doesn't have it in him to end the war QUICKLY! 3) As PRESIDENT, maybe he will buy property next to GW Bush and he will learn to become an urban cowboy :-)

    Posted by Blome at 03/14/2008 @ 9:58pm

92. He wears a lapel flag, is the Rep nominee, and is endorsed by Bush and Romney.

    Posted by winyahn at 03/14/2008 @ 9:58pm

93. further divide it along racial lines...

    A real Jesse Jackson type. Bill would agree with you.

    Posted by winyahn at 03/14/2008 @ 10:00pm

94. Yep, I've said it for 27 years now...

    Obama is a shill for Malcom X's secret underground overthrow the whities movement, a paid operative of the Black Panthers, and a mole for the Black Islam revolutionary consortium.

    And that's just what this blog of losers just can't get through their thick tin foil skulls...

    Oh, why do I waste my time with you idiots anyway?

    ;^)

    Posted by ttr at 03/14/2008 @ 10:10pm

95. Posted by WINYAHN 03/14/2008 @ 10:00pm

    Jesse obviously thinks so, since he endorsed obama.

    http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070423/hutchinson

    Posted by Blome at 03/14/2008 @ 10:13pm

96. I'm writing in Condi! Does her "blackness" count? It doesn't matter. I like her for HER!----Posted by BARRY25 03/14/2008 @ 9:47pm

    So you're pro-choice?

    "I've called myself at times mildly pro-choice."---Condoleezza Rice---March 2005

    Posted by Mask at 03/14/2008 @ 10:15pm

97. Well I can't blame blome or blome blame for not wanting to be sold and shipped off to Africa.

    Posted by winyahn at 03/14/2008 @ 10:19pm

98. Posted by WINYAHN 03/14/2008 @ 10:19pm

    I don't know WINY, the white slave market seems to be recession proof..don't turn your back!

    Posted by Blome at 03/14/2008 @ 10:25pm

99. MASK 03/14/2008 @ 10:15pm

    Your recall abilities and keen sense of timing are second to very few, Mask... well done.

    Posted by ttr at 03/14/2008 @ 10:26pm

100. Posted by TTR 03/14/2008 @ 10:26pm

     I take no credit....all due to a little thing called "Google".

     Curious as to what a "true blue con" like BARRY25 thinks of the fact that Condi is a "mild" "baby killer"!

     heheh

     Posted by Mask at 03/14/2008 @ 11:00pm

101. His comments can be damaging if you are running for President but quite frankly I have heard stronger in my Sociology classes in college in fact you should hear what my Defense policy National Security professor said in his classes about the stuff that America has done around the world it aint pretty. I dont see this affecting Obama's base of Progressive whites the young, AA college educated I think it might hurt with Independents and moderates

     Carol

     Posted by harriscrl3 at 03/14/2008 @ 11:21pm

102. Watch out Condi he might whip out the anti-American slur.

     Or worse, blomer will toss down ye olde race card.

     Posted by winyahn at 03/14/2008 @ 11:21pm

103. Something that's being overlooked is the fact that Obama is a religious person at all. We've had a religious freak as president for eight years now. The problems in Israel, the middle east, Iraq, are for the most part; religious wars. Rev.Wright, Pat Roberson, what's his name Hagee, all kooks! If someone still believes the mythology in 2008, fughedaboutit! I'm voting for Nader......

     Posted by bleedingheart at 03/14/2008 @ 11:38pm

104. Good point. That'll be the day when a candidates' powers of reason, expertise/ embrace of science are critical to the public.

     Posted by winyahn at 03/14/2008 @ 11:48pm

105. We'll "see" what?

     Posted by MASK 03/14/2008 @ 7:34pm

     With one, better two, terms at being a governor of a big state, presumably with some executive accomplishments, there won't be nearly the legitimate question over his (lack of) experience. He will also be under the limelight more for people actually to see him perform his politics of hope & bi-partisanship, instead of demanding voters to just, HOPE!

     If I come to you, armed with my MBA and say, MASK, hand me over $100k and I'll turn it into $200k in 5~7 years, but I can't prove to you of having done this for anyone, should you trust me no matter how smooth of an `Operator' I can be up on the podium? Now, if I show you actual results (my own IRA is the most accurate since no money comes out), then, perhaps you needn't just HOPE!

     Posted by Happy at 03/15/2008 @ 12:19am

106. General response to METT,

     When someone runs for (still) the most powerful position on earth, which happens to be the POTUS of our country, he/she needs to be vetted and held to a higher standard.

     If Obama flames out, when looking back, people will realize there have been quite a few warning signs. I won't go into a rehash of everything I've read.....but the signs are there......"The Wright Stuff" is just the most visual/audible....also don't forget, Rezko is just warming up....Fitzmas wants a scalp out of this after a downer w/Scooter Libby.

     Posted by Happy at 03/15/2008 @ 12:27am

107. Well, it's going to be interesting to see how this turns out. Assuming Obama gets the nomination, we won't know the answer to that question until November, because this will certainly stay with Obama as long as he's in the race.

     I don't know much yet about Rev. Wright. I've heard rumors of really off-the-wall remarks (something about the white man being responsible for AIDs? Oh, my!), but the actual video I've seen and heard, other than containing quite an obscenity for one standing in the pulpit, hasn't sounded very bad to me. I kind of liked what I heard, but I'm sure there's more. I've also heard that the Reverend has a reputation for being somewhat of an intellectual. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but we might eventually see enough of Rev. Wright to start having some affection for the "crazy old uncle" ourselves. Ok, it probably is wishful thinking. At least so far, I haven't been totally depressed by what I've actually verified.

     The problem is that most everyone around us is pretty crazy: our preacher, the President, most Congressmen and Senators, McCain (certainly), Hillary (lately? Come on!), your barber, and at least 62% of your co-workers. Obama's public persona is consistently mature, and such a contrast to the prevailing landscape. Will we latch on to that, or will we use this as a reason to destroy a promising career? It could happen. We're certainly perverse, and crazy, enough.

     Posted by Donald Weed at 03/15/2008 @ 12:27am

108. HAPPY 03/15/2008 @ 12:27am

     Just keep on 'hoping' that some miracle will take down Obama, Happy...

     While Obama hits his second wind...

     Maybe you could try Ouiji or voodoo or there's always 'witchcraft'... maybe some combination of these things would keep him from listening to and reaching out to the fine and talented people of the United States of America.

     Posted by ttr at 03/15/2008 @ 01:33am

109. DONALD WEED 03/15/2008 @ 12:27am

     Great post Donald... It's like someone spiked the punch... the punch that came out of nowhere.

     So, as we are all dusting ourselves off... we should take care to notice just how many of us there actually are... dusting ourselves off.

     Just another day in Democracy, and the 'dumb down' stops here.

     It's OK to wise up and get real. In fact it's in the job description for being an American.

     Posted by ttr at 03/15/2008 @ 01:58am

110. Posted by BARRY25 03/14/2008 @ 9:28pm

     Did you not see the post I made about McCain funding members of the C of CC. The newer more business like version of the KKK. If you statement is true then McCain giving money to racists makes him racist too.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/15/2008 @ 04:05am

111. I like how every Republican here is jumping on Obama for associating with someone who is racist. Giving money to people or at least supposedly giving money to people. However all the Republicans are willing to ignore McCain funding someone in the C of CC. So it's ok if McCain funds someone in a white supremacist group however it's not ok for Obama to associate someone who is a black supremacist.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/15/2008 @ 04:15am

112. "The country is seeing what its best intentions, heroic and costly efforts at integration, massive affirmative action, has led to. We now have highly educated. privileged, people like Barack and Michelle who at bottom detest the United States"

     Posted by MARKCANYON 03/15/2008 @ 04:12am

     Soooo, what it would still be better for separate but not equal? Or how about we throw all the the darkys like me back into slavery!

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/15/2008 @ 04:18am

113. I call myself mildly "states rights"/ "pro( informed )choice"! BARRY25

     Posted by barry25 at 03/15/2008 @ 04:19am

114. I like how everyone is saying that a person, who has spent over a year now using his best efforts, massive amounts of money, time and energy to become President. Who has politically served his country for many years now is all of a sudden Anti-American. Anti-Americans don't run for president you morons. Anyone who believes Barack Obama is Anti-American needs to get a CAT Scan because something is loose up stairs. No body spends this much time, money and energy to become president because they are anti-american. No body spends this much time in politics because they are anti-american. Get your heads out of your asses.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/15/2008 @ 04:21am

115. Also calling a man who has many many many white people working for him. Who has worked closely with many many many white people. Who has confidences with many many many white people is all of a suddenly a horrible racist. Jesus christ stop being sheep of the media who believe every bullshit breaking news story. Why would he staff so many white people if he was nothing but a racist? He had a WHITE mother. Look past your stupid claims and the bullshit that the Hillary campaign and the Right have been spreading. First you guys were trying to deflate him by saying he isn't truly black because he is only half. Now you are trying to deflate him by saying he is too black and a racist who hates half of his heritage and his own mother. Get real you morons.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/15/2008 @ 04:27am

116. Posted by MARKCANYON 03/15/2008 @ 04:12am

     That is such a good name. It makes me think of fighter pilots and American heroes. Thank goodness, Mark, for your 40 years of white tolerance. As for your list, well, I'm not sure I believe the AIDS story.

     Rev. Wright is a product of his time, and Barack Obama is a product of his. Rev. Wright, or Jesse Jackson, could not have become President, and Obama is well aware of that. That's why his message is not their message.

     Posted by Donald Weed at 03/15/2008 @ 04:35am

117. "You know damn well that McCain has not supported, certainly not knowingly, any racist organization, let alone the KKK."

     Actually it was reported not long ago that McCain was financially funding a member of the C of CC.

     "Senator John McCain (R-AZ) is fundraising for George Wallace Jr., who is running for Lt. Governor of Alabama."

     "Several bloggers document Wallace's longstanding association with the Council of Conservative Citizens, a racist organization that refers to blacks as "a retrograde species of humanity."

     http://www.progressive.org/blogressive1128

     Maybe you should try reading up on the person you support. I didn't say the KKK and I didn't say he gave money directly to the organization. I said he gave money directly to a member of the C of CC. So why don't you dig a little Mark instead of immediately jumping to namer calling.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/15/2008 @ 04:49am

118. "In June 2005 he opened up the first day of the annual national convention of the Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC), a conservative group that critics describe as "white supremacist". This was not Wallace's first interaction with the CCC; he gave speeches to the CCC once in 1998 and twice in 1999."

     More ties between Wallace and the C of CC. Wallace being someone McCain fundraised for.

     "In another piece, Quinn said of former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke, "What better way to reject politics as usual than to elect a maverick like David Duke?""

     Then you have quotes like this from McCains SC advisors Quinn. So don't tell me McCain doesn't also associate with racists.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/15/2008 @ 04:52am

119. "A new study from the Justice Policy Institute (http://www.justicepolicy.org), a Washington, DC-based think-tank that advocates for alternatives to prison, has found that after two decades of harsh criminal justice policies, there are more black men in jail or prison than in college. At the end of 2000, 791,600 black men were behind bars and 603,032 were enrolled in colleges or universities"

     Funny how some of his sermon is true Mark. I don't excuse his racist rants but you should try digging instead of being a sheep.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/15/2008 @ 04:57am

120. "No black man will ever be considered for president, no matter how hard you run Jesse [Jackson] and no black woman can ever be considered for anything outside what she can give with her body."

     Weren't a lot of you Republicans who were trying to stop Obama earlier saying that white people wold never ever vote for a black man. That the majority of this nation would never vote for a black man because white people don't vote for blacks. I guess you guys agree with this part of his sermon.

     "Racism is alive and well. Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run."

     See above comments.

     "America is to blame for the 9/11 attacks"

     This can actually be mildly justified funnily enough. If we hadn't have funded Al Qaeda and just let the Russians stomp them out we would no longer have Al Qaeda and 9/11 would have never happened. You could even argue if we had better middle east policy it wouldn't have happened but I won't go into that.

     "The US supports terrorism against Palestinian"

     Again this is an issue of perspective and opinion. To Palestinians and much of the non-right what Israel does to Palestine is terrorism just like what Palestine does to Israel is terrorism.

     "We do not care if poor black and brown children cannot read and kill each other senselessly."

     See the comment about more blacks men being in prison than in college.

     "Our standard of living depends on making Third World people live in grinding poverty."

     Look at what we have done to much of South America. This isn't completely untrue either.

     Your examples are bad ones Mark because much of what is said there can be justified. The AIDS thing is completely ridiculous. But the Tuskegee experiments with Syphilis DID exist. They didn't create the virus but they wouldn't offer treatment to African-Americans so they could be used as lab rats.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/15/2008 @ 05:05am

121. "I'd call it being black in America." Amen.

     Amen brother Ari. I am sure a black person like you knows all about what it is like to be black in America. All black Americans say "Goddamn America," right? And they all believe that American started the AIDS epidemic too? Condoleezza Rice for example, believes that?

     Why not let black American individuals voice their own beliefs. Do you think they need you to speak for them?

     See The Wright stuff, Obama, truth and the Jews [zionism-israel.com]

     Posted by Ami Isseroff at 03/15/2008 @ 08:22am

122. I imagine Martin Luther King, Jr. would have agreed that "spiritual" and "political" cannot be separated. His critiques of American society were every bit as sharp as Wright's, but they came out of a whole different ideological and spiritual context. King loved his country--and his enemies. Wright's ravings--however on target some of his points may be-- come out of anger, ignorance, and hatred. (No, my fellow whites, not "racism". That term does not apply here.)

     And this is the guy Obama has sought out for spiritual advice??? And before this he never noticed or reacted to his political rants?

     The point is that Obama--who I voted for--turns out to be far more shallow than I ever thought he was, and his tepid response to this controversy is either disingenuous or naive. Put simply: you can either be President of the United States, or you can get "spiritual advice" from a preacher who loudly proclaims how much he hates America. In that regard, speaking as a Jew, I disagree with Berman. His rabbi is a flaming hypocrite, and if Berman had any guts, he'd challenge him. Or leave his synagogue.

     Unfortunately, this all fits in with accusations that Obama really doesn't have any clear or consistent political views, and that he is nothing but soothing rhetoric. My fear is that he is just like his friend, my state's governor Deval Patrick, whose campaign slogan was "Together We Can"--and whose only innovative idea so far is to build casinos throughout Massachusetts. Patrick has also shown he cannot work with the legislative branch, and pouts when he is criticized.

     So stop making excuses, my fellow leftists. At this rate, Obama is on his way to losing either the nomination or the election. And since I have no love lost for Hillary, I must say I write all this with a great deal of sadness.

     Posted by Mengel at 03/15/2008 @ 09:21am

123. And then "The Nation" lost its Objectivity because it was caught by the self inflicted BIAS - i just wonder what these idiots would be writing (shamelessly biased nusings in this case) if this clown was so close to any other candidate.

     There are clear signs of patterns here - Michelle Obama just vocalize them with her "\pride less adult life"

     Nation is off my list of reliable source

     Posted by lotusmed at 03/15/2008 @ 10:31am

124. All said and done I think Obama is the person to address these issues and they NEED to be addressed. No offense but white Presidents aren't going to do it. Bill Clinton the Black president didnt do it. These things are not as uncommon as people would like to think. I have a friend who's now deceased that use to speak like that I didnt agree with some of the things she said but there was no way that not being around her was going to be an option for me. Contrary to what people think you can be around someone listen to them and not share their views. I got too much from the relationship for me to just cut if off because of things I dont agree with.

     I think this can be a good opportunity for America to talk about some of these issues and address them. See Identity politics may not be a bad thing after all. It can spark meaningful dialouge that we SHOULD be having. I dont agree that this is a distraction from real issues this is a "real issue"

     Carol

     Posted by harriscrl3 at 03/15/2008 @ 10:32am

125. From what I have seen of Mr. Wright's comments, I would say that he is right on anyway. 9/11 was chickens coming home to roost. If we could admit the truth of that, we would be better for it.

     Posted by Steve C. at 03/15/2008 @ 11:05am

126. NOLA contendere

     Posted by hsuBfools at 03/15/2008 @ 11:27am

127. This article was so laughable and contained so much derision I did not know whether to laugh or cry. Ari claimed that Repubs never have to talk about their religion. What a misleading and false lie! What about Mitt Romney? A man who does NOT belong to a racist Church. A man who DOES belong to a Church that states that if you say diparaging remarks against another man because of his race . . . then you are not a true follower of Christ. Because of religious bigotry, he lost this race even though he was the best, by far, to get us back on track economically. Mitt Romney got much more criticism for his great Church than Barack Hussein Obama has had for his deplorable, bigotted one. Wright was not just a religious advisor, he was a political advisor to Hussein. But liberals, claim he was only a religious advisor. Did Hussein not say that what Wright taught effected aspects of all his life? Romney's Church stays out of politics and yet people said they wouldn't. Obama's wouldn't stay out of politics and yet people say it would stay out of politics. It is axiomatic that his Church would not stay out because that is what he taught in his "sermons." Romney's Church never taught politics. I am ashamed at the part of America that calls evil good and good evil, just as Isaiah prophecied though. Too bad.

     Posted by ConservativeJ at 03/15/2008 @ 11:29am

128. Few of you on, or perhaps still clinging on w/dear life, the Obama bandwagon paid much attention......but Magic's rise is inextricably linked to Rev. Wright.....these early warnings of trouble have been there.....even by the NYT!

     A Candidate, His Minister and the Search for Faith

     By JODI KANTOR

     Published: April 30, 2007

     CHICAGO -- Members of Trinity United Church of Christ squeezed into a downtown hotel ballroom in early March to celebrate the long service of their pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. One congregant stood out amid the flowers and finery: Senator Barack Obama, there to honor the man who led him from skeptic to self-described Christian.

     Twenty years ago at Trinity, Mr. Obama,....had sampled various faiths but adopted none until he met Mr. Wright, a dynamic pastor who preached Afrocentric theology, dabbled in radical politics and delivered music-and-profanity-spiked sermons.

     Few of those at Mr. Wright's tribute in March knew of the pressures that Mr. Obama's presidential run was placing on the relationship between the pastor and his star congregant. Mr. Wright's assertions of widespread white racism and his scorching remarks about American government have drawn criticism, and prompted the senator to cancel his delivery of the invocation when he formally announced his candidacy in February.....

     Posted by Happy at 03/15/2008 @ 11:35am

129. Racism in this country is not even-steven. Ignorant white racists will use whatever means possible to put a black person down. They will attempt to kill every effort to equalize power. God-Damn them and their America.

     Does that make more sense?

     Posted by hsuBfools at 03/15/2008 @ 11:35am

130. "Obama is not gay, not Muslim, not Mormon, not in the Skull & Bones club, not in the Carlyle Group, did not make deals with Saddam in the 80s, did not shoot Vince Foster, play White Water in Iowa, earn zillions from Halliburton or declare "Mission Accomplished". He loves America and Jesus too. Posted by WINYAHN 03/14/2008 @ 6:49pm | ignore this person"

     And what is wrong with being Mormon? You are a ridiculous, bigotted, odious, and macabre person! You put Mormonism in your list as if it is a nazi-like culture. Your bigotry, ignorance, and lack of mentail capacity show so much your words become hollow. I suppose there are always mental and spiritual deficient people, such as yourself in the world. There always have been. Example besides yourself? They crucified the Son of God. Why not have a cretin like yourself saying the LDS or Mormon Church is bad? Get educated by the CORRECT SOURCE before you say stupid things!

     Posted by ConservativeJ at 03/15/2008 @ 11:43am

131. Proof of a Damned American is all over what's happened in New Orleans.

     To some, that was what makes America GREAT!

     Not.

     Posted by hsuBfools at 03/15/2008 @ 11:44am

132. Posted by CONSERVATIVEJ 03/15/2008 @ 11:43am |

     That's true. Actually it's LVLIBERTY and the Religious Right who have a problem with Mormons.

     Posted by Mask at 03/15/2008 @ 11:53am

133. Obama's message is a narrative of hope and healing; mending the past.

     The truth that there is so much pain, 'is' the reason there is a great need for Obama's message.

     And the reason for racists to resist it.

     Posted by hsuBfools at 03/15/2008 @ 12:04pm

134. Posted by Ari Berman

     What Wright is saying, moreover, is not particularly radical.

     Not particularly radical? Well, let's summarize what Wright has been saying:

     - drugs are all a plot by white America to attack black America

     - Blacks should sing 'God Damn America'

     - AIDS was invented by the white man to keep the black man down

     These are all 'not particularly radical'? I'd hate to think what Ari Berman considers radical!

     Posted by pontificus at 03/15/2008 @ 12:04pm

135. None so blind... Yes, JoMa, it's all their own fault. That would make total sense to people that have chosen to be blind/deaf and live all alone in their own head without any compassion or soul. What great amount of hate for others, people that believe the storm was their own fault, must have.

     The Katrina storm hit the entire area that lost the means to help themselves. Most that evacuated lost everything and were stranded outside and in. The national guard and most of it's equipment were in Iraq-- hsuB's chosen war. While the feds twiddled their thumbs on vacation from reality.

     Posted by hsuBfools at 03/15/2008 @ 12:24pm

136. Just keep on 'hoping' that some miracle will take down Obama, Happy...While Obama hits his second wind...

     Posted by TTR 03/15/2008 @ 01:33am

     Overlooked ya! I'm NOT nearly as HOPE-based as the Rev. Wright is "God Damn America"-based. I'm perfectly willing to allow for the possibility Obama may NOT be taken down until he has become the POTUS......it's just a matter of looking in his past and his associations.

     Look how long it took to find out what a man of `HOPE' Gov. Spitzer is and he was a `star' too!

     Posted by Happy at 03/15/2008 @ 12:25pm

137. Racists will use anything to keep a black person down, even the argument that blacks don't enjoy being put down. Especially why that argument isn't used all the time!?!?!

     Posted by hsuBfools at 03/15/2008 @ 12:30pm

138. But I do know, as you have made it very clear, that you are a shameless liar.

     Posted by MARKCANYON 03/15/2008 @ 05:56am

     Do your research. I'm not lying. He has spoken at C of CC meetings. Keep denying it to yourself. But it;s not a lie. Prove me wrong with something other than opinion Mark and I will concede.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/15/2008 @ 12:39pm

139. JoMa will create an entire world to shield himself from the fact that he doesn't care about the suffering of others if they're dems--- especially if they're poor black dems.

     Posted by hsuBfools at 03/15/2008 @ 12:47pm

140. Believe what you want to Mark but I have already proven that your candidate gives money to and supports racists. You have yet to disprove that. So you can sit here and villify democrats saying WE are ALL racist but look in your own stock. You have them there too and your candidate that you so love is helping two of them out.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/15/2008 @ 12:53pm

141. I wonder how the term looney left came into being.

     Posted by JOMAMMA 03/15/2008 @ 12:57pm

     Wonder where the term repugnant right came from?

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/15/2008 @ 1:02pm

142. HAPPY Possibility, ?Probability?:

     IF Magic loses Pennsylvania, by same or more than Ohio, he'll withdraw his candidacy in order to save Howard Dean, the Demo Party, Gloria Steinam, MI, FL, Rev. Wright, his Trinity Church, Michelle, and his own future political prospects.

     He who `sells' HOPE and Change, and want 300+ million Americans (plus the world) to buy his `wares', have had ~20 years to do so at his own (?anti-America?) church! Plus, for the past ~10 years, Magic held political offices to give him some real clout, then? The Hope-monger had done exactly diddly squat!

     PS: I'd be just as HAPPY, maybe even more so, if `The Demo Show' goes on into August! I'm so psyched!

     Posted by Happy at 03/15/2008 @ 1:06pm

143. Speaking of repubs and the Katrina storm aftermath-- the hsuB/cHeney admin could've insured competition with the dems for the black vote via a decisive fed rescue of New Orleans. No, the decision was the total opposite. It was a total write-off; a mindful death wish for an old annoyance: a peak into the empty crevasse save for 30 silver coins that is the repub soul, and in the repub thought bubble--the subliminal lynching of NOLA.

     Posted by hsuBfools at 03/15/2008 @ 1:17pm

144. Blind and deaf is as blind and deaf does....

     Posted by hsuBfools at 03/15/2008 @ 1:33pm

145. In the coming days & weeks, will there be:

     Uncommitted Superdelegates endorsing HRC?

     Committed Obama Supers rescind their endorsements & change to Uncommitted or perhaps, even endorse HRC?

     Any major Demo players, anonymously, leak the desire for Magic to step down?

     Tears from Barack to cleanse his "Wright Stuff"?

     Major offensive by the Obama team to attack HRC?

     Lastly, hey, fellow righties, are we still having fun?

     Posted by Happy at 03/15/2008 @ 1:33pm

146. Yes, remind me again to: "Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience."

     Posted by hsuBfools at 03/15/2008 @ 1:38pm

147. Another point by a dif author, the same tile:

     The Wright Stuff

     by Scout Finch

     Sat Mar 15, 2008 at 08:43:11 AM PDT

     "Without weighing in on whether or not the content of Reverend Jeremiah Wright's sermons should be denounced by Barack Obama, I do find one aspect of this story quite troubling. We have now seen more sermons from Barack Obama's minister in 48 hours than we ever did of Mike Huckabee ---- and Mike Huckabee was a presidential candidate for 14 long months. Why is it acceptable to scour every last sermon given by Wright, but only weeks ago we weren't allowed to see or read Mike Huckabee's sermons? In fact, not only was it totally ignored by the traditional media, but the few times the question of Huckabee's sermons was raised, it was brushed aside as inappropriate."

     http://dailykos.com/

     Posted by hsuBfools at 03/15/2008 @ 1:58pm

148. Is it because Mike's white?!?!?!?

     NAW, it can't be-- tell us why JoMa.

     Posted by hsuBfools at 03/15/2008 @ 1:59pm

149. er, title

     Posted by hsuBfools at 03/15/2008 @ 2:00pm

150. God save America*,

     Land that we've raped,

     Raise her from the ashes and guide her

     Thru the night with a light of humility;

     From the melting mountain glaciers, to the strip-mined prairies,

     To the oceans dead with fertilizer,

     God save America.

     Posted by frosty zoom at 03/15/2008 @ 2:15pm

151. * in the continental sense [necessary disclaimer]

     Posted by frosty zoom at 03/15/2008 @ 2:16pm

152. Again-- why was it that NOLA could take care of itself, but Iraq couldn't and can't? Oh, I see, a different kind of black 'commodity' that can be exploited for ever greater profits... legally.(?)

     Posted by hsuBfools at 03/15/2008 @ 2:24pm

153. See-- I knew JoMa could explain why Damn America is so GREAT. If you're black-- you get a pass.

     Posted by hsuBfools at 03/15/2008 @ 2:40pm

154. Mike's white, but his sermons about the evil abortion baby killers and the gay's marriage destroying and their aids as a just punishment, were a MSM pass because he wasn't a presidential 'hopeful. Whereas Obama's black pass, is being revoked because he's a presidential 'hopeful'. I take it then that the proof is that McCave's white, but not a presidential hopeful? And then that also means that neither is Billary?

     WOW, JoMa is a genius and not a souless idiot.

     Posted by hsuBfools at 03/15/2008 @ 2:55pm

155. JoMa has just proven through his finite logic that Barack Obama is the one only presidential 'hopeful'! McCave and Billary need only bow out; don't count.

     Want a GREAT Damn America we live in.

     Just brings a tears to my eyes...

     Posted by hsuBfools at 03/15/2008 @ 3:03pm

156. Reading through these posts - the conspiracies, fallacies and projections are flying! Swiftboaters on left and right. "A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing" indeed!

     For my money, neither side will ultimately turn out to be as hideous or categorical as these claims. Hopefully the more nuanced, less exciting truth will come to the fore faster than it has with respect to Area 51, Kennedy conspiracy iterations, and/or 911 as part of coming one world government.

     Posted by winyahn at 03/15/2008 @ 3:06pm

157. It is hard for those out there that are cross-eyed... one would have to assume.

     Posted by hsuBfools at 03/15/2008 @ 3:10pm

158. My softspot for conspiracy and paranoia ("just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're really not coming after you") pertains to the so-called "corporatocracy" which both left and right has legally, largely openly corrupted both left and right "establishment". Naderville.

     Posted by winyahn at 03/15/2008 @ 3:13pm

159. Fascism.

     Posted by hsuBfools at 03/15/2008 @ 3:16pm

160. Awesome book on USA sanctioned imperialistic tactics: John Perkins, Confessions of an Economic Hitman".

     Posted by winyahn at 03/15/2008 @ 3:24pm

161. It beats the hell out of the white televangalist milking their flocks for millions to spend on themselves. Many white churches insist their pastor live like a Roman Emporer. Wright has a message that resonates with his flock for social and economic justice. Which would Jesus most likely agree with?

     Posted by Happydog at 03/15/2008 @ 4:30pm

162. Billy Graham saved George Bush from a life of public, frat boy drunkenness only to see his disciple become the scourge from hell-ruining baseball teams, energy firms, economies and countries. Pastor Wright, on the other hand, saved Barack Obama from secular hell only to see his disciple flounder on the shoals of Hillary Clinton's venomous and racist wrath. Oh, you week and meek who seek the solace of these religious imposters and their God -will -save -you nostrums! They are worse than opium or the crack that invades our fair cities. Fie on them.

     Better for the world if George Bush kept on pulling awful preppy jokes on his Skull and Bones chums and blowing up frogs in his back yard and for Barack Obama to find Populism and Democracy rather than the wicked Pastor Wright that he indulges or the curse of corporate globalism that he embraces. George Bush, happily, is done for- off to his presidential library with its two books: The Pet Goat, and Clearing Brush for Profit and Pleasure. There is still time for Obama: Rid yourself of the Pastor!

     (I see he did. Good for him, he found the light. Moral: Avoid the church like a plague! and Go Populist!)

     Posted by hkaplan at 03/15/2008 @ 5:21pm

163. Posted by HAPPYDOG 03/15/2008 @ 4:30pm | ignore this person

     Yeah...man fight the power that be...know what i am sayin

     Sure Jesus would be fine with ole boy saying G*D Damn America!

     Posted by CPT at 03/15/2008 @ 6:06pm

164. Posted by HKAPLAN 03/15/2008 @ 5:21pm | ignore this person

     Amen!! Go Populist and LOSE the election....just DukCOCKis

     Posted by CPT at 03/15/2008 @ 6:07pm

165. But how has this couple responded to America? They have made a black racist who hates the US and blames her for all the world's ills, their mentor, their moral guide, their pastor.

     Posted by MARKCANYON 03/15/2008 @ 06:44am

     The storm is passing over. They huffed and puffed, and it actually had me worried for a while, but there just isn't enough there to hold the attention span-challenged public for very long. Mr. Canyon's argument above will carry weight for a very few, and certainly no one that might have ever considered casting a vote for Obama. It's just pretty hard for a reasonable person to characterize Obama as hostile. I mean, sheesh!

     What's come out in the open is potentially a very good thing, although I'd much prefer to have this discussion after the election, for selfish reasons. The injustices felt so keenly by Rev. Wright, who so despised his country that he served as a Marine, are felt by many of us black and white. Many don't express those feelings in such uncompromising terms, but many haven't seen the things that Rev. Wright has seen. I don't condone everything he's said. If Obama actually did hear some of those things in church, it wouldn't really bother me, but it might bother some people, including some potential Obama voters, but I do think the worst of the storm is over, at least for now.

     I've tried to stay open to learning new things all my life, and I've learned a whole lot on my own. Obama has taught me a thing or two about dealing with opposition, and I've had some pretty high-level training from Microsoft trainers and managers, and on-the-job experience in conflicts with competing technology and development groups, especially during my five-year cycle working to develop Windows Vista. Obama's methodology is a distillation of the best workgroup and conflict resolution techniques in practice at Microsoft, and that's as charged an environment as exists, take it from me. We're only beginning to learn about Obama's capabilities, and there's more than sufficient depth there to put the Reverend controversy far behind in the rear view mirror. Romney, by contrast, would have had to take a lot of extra courses at MS before he'd have got very far in conference discussions.

     When the time comes, there's plenty of unexplored depth in the example of Rev. Wright, and beyond the incendiary phrases, I suspect there's a lot more good to be gleaned from his examples than any you might unearth from the long and mostly undistinguished lives of Geraldine Ferraro and her ilk. I think Obama has stuck with him because he knows there's more asset there than liability, but rest assured I'll speak the truth about him, whichever way it falls, as more comes to light.

     Guilt by association, is it? Ok, then, I demand that Barack Obama reject and denounce Hillary Clinton! :)

     Posted by Donald Weed at 03/15/2008 @ 6:35pm

166. All this inflammatory coverage by Fox incensed me to the point where I had to contribute another $50 to Obama cool my blood. The absurd and over-hyped coverage is the type of thing that should unify the left just like the NYT article attacking McCaine galvanized the right. Unfortunately I don't think most Hillary backers are at that point yet, and you can be sure that her campaign will do everything they can to keep the flames ablaze.

     Posted by mpeng at 03/15/2008 @ 7:01pm

167. Posted by DONALD WEED I've tried to stay open to learning new things all my life

     Excellent. There's research on the opposite sort... the work on authoritarian personality is fascinating relative to these debates and hostilities (see books by ex-Nixonian John Dean).

     Helps explain, for ex., how a great many otherwise smart people actually perceived Monica scandal as worse than WMD lies. A key (empirically-derived) insight is that despite all the hot air about individualism, the run of the mill rightwinger psychologically needs to look up to, follow, revere and subordinate themselves to a person they experience as an alpha, boos, leader type. Very much in play in the Limbaugh / Dittohead phenomena which helped usher in these past wondrous 7 years. Non followers are evil, deluded, weak/bleeded hearts, morally corrupt and..... drum roll....... UNAMERICAN. Sheep in denial aren't likely to study and therefore learn and thereby break free. Ironically, the real freedom-lovers are those who manage to traverse this lower stage of development.

     Posted by winyahn at 03/15/2008 @ 7:10pm

168. The research on authoritarian psychology helps explain some of the insanity provoked here by Wright's polemical spewings. Sheep in denial, convinced they are tough wolves, literally have no way to imagine not being sheep/followers, and so project themselves into the understandably intolerable position of being some sort of Wright- brainwashed clone.

     Posted by winyahn at 03/15/2008 @ 7:17pm

169. Posted by WINYAHN 03/15/2008 @ 7:17pm | ignore this person

     Gee...how very pedantic of you to say so....what lucid and masterful thesis topic that you have.

     I would counter your unique and..drumroll please; unassailable liberal free thinking position, that all who tend to disagree with "free thinking" and sophisticated liberal ideology are in FACT based more on what one values and a discerning mind which distinguishes between, your own example, what is a geo-political foreign policy decsision and perjury under oath in an American court of law. As per your example......in its totality one your position deal with the very real and unpleasent reality of your own failure.

     This reef of truth and enlightenment on all position that people like yourslef claim to have. Have in FACT FAILED to persuade the larger majority of us that your position is the truth. So understand your frustration.....you claim all this knowledge but are unable to apply it......how lefty of you. But take heart you and your kind shall always have your blueblooded group of academics who sip over starbucks coffee and lament the state of the USA.

     God Bless You

     Posted by CPT at 03/15/2008 @ 9:11pm

170. Huh?

     Posted by winyahn at 03/15/2008 @ 9:19pm

171. Jom your logic is just stupid. I try to respect everything you say and take it with a grain of salt. However I am sorry you are very finite in your intelligence and logic. The fact that you can actually believe that everything the left says is wrong and factless while everything the right says in intelligent and with merit is the dumbest drivel I have ever heard. Yeah repugnant right was made by baseless and emotional lefts while loony left was made by intelligent, all knowing, godly rights. Jesus christ some people just amaze me.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/15/2008 @ 9:49pm

172. I've gotta hand it to the Jomammas, Happys and other rightwingers of this blog.

     It took you mere seconds to prove my point, put the full flower of your ignorance on display, and showcase all of the things that folks like you think and why they make folks like me think you're stupid as hell.

     You don't get it. You never will. And bringing up Africa is merely your way of trying to ignore what I've said. I didn't say shit about Africa, a country that has it's own issues.

     I was talking about America, a place that still doesn't want to recognize that it has issues that it needs to work out.

     Posted by edwriter at 03/16/2008 @ 12:37am

173. Obama's pastor of 20 years:

     Wright [youtube.com]

     Posted by peterNation at 03/16/2008 @ 12:40am

174. Cheney's using R-word again, at Heritage Club Echo Chamber: "REGIME"

     Are the right-wingers here actually proud of Cheney? You voted for him two-times right?

     Do you neither denounce nor reject your chosen leader of the last many, many years?

     Posted by winyahn at 03/16/2008 @ 01:02am

175. Edwriter,

     I'm sorry that you and evidently some other African-Americans have views that would find any justification for Rev Wright's remarks. That you think there is any legitimacy is sad and I hope you find some spiritual and emotional healing to change this outlook.

     I guess than I'm fortunate that none of my African-American family and extended family share in those feelings. They never utter these kind of defamatory views. They love this country, their lives, and the opportunities they have. This doesn't mean they are unaware or ignore some of the past evil committed against their ancestors (and to be honest, a few are second generation Americans from the Caribbean and Central America). However, they all live in the today and not dwelling on the past.

     One added note, I would never even consider the kind of inflammatory language the Rev Wright used, especially when I am in the pulpit.

     Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/14/2008 @ 8:37pm | ignore this person

     I know that in your own way, LVLIBERTY, you're trying to express some heartfelt feeling regarding the issues that I raised in my previous post.

     So I apologize in advance for some of the response that I'm about to give to it.

     I'll start off simply by saying that you have a lot of nerve.

     If you read my post thoroughly, something that your post tells me that you didn't do, I never said that I agreed with Rev. Wright's presentation. I did, however, say that some of the issues that he brings up are indeed legitimate.

     Since you are not, nor will ever be black, where do you get off telling me that they're not? I'd be willing to bet that even your patron saints, JC Watts and Thomas Sowell will tell you that they've had to deal with some things that are uniquely tied to their experiences as black men.

     (On second thought, they probably wouldn't. They both remind me of the young girls that I see on the streets that don't realize that when rappers call women "bitches" and "hoes" that they're talking about them. I wonder how many "nigger" jokes these two have laughed at to keep from being seen as hypersensitive?)

     But back to my point, which is where do you get off?

     You're not the one who had a parent who served his country for 32 years and used to occasionally tell the story of how he couldn't go to certain parts of the southern state in which he grew up with his Army uniform on, lest he come upon a Klan lynching party with evil intentions. And this was after World War II.

     You're also not this same man's daughter, a person who had to take a different route home from work each night and had to check under the hood of her car for explosives and other shit because she had the nerve to write about the activities of radical white supremacist groups as a reporter.

     You're not someone who has seen people beaten and forced out of neighborhoods because their white neighbors didn't want them there...because who wants to live next to a black people, even if they are doctors and lawyers?

     In case you're wondering, the first one is my dad and the second one is some friends of mine.

     The one in the middle, the reporter trying to do her job and having her life threatened for it, well that was me. And if you don't think that I should still be a little angry because these bastards had my mother so worried for me that she could barely sleep, you're asking for a whole lot from me.

     So again, I say, how dare you! Where in the hell do you get off?

     And since the subject is hate from the pulpit, let's talk about some, shall we? We've got the late Rev. Jerry Falwell who believed that black folks in South Africa actually liked being demoralized, marginalized and in some cases killed during the Apartheid regime. We've got the Rev. Pat Robertson, whose litany of hateful sermons is so extensive that I can't even list it here.

     John Hagee, James Dobson, the list goes on.

     But I guess that because Rev. Wright is (a)black (b)knows Louis Farrakhan personally and (c)is connected to a presidential candidate, he should be subject to much more scrutiny.

     This is exactly the kind of bullshit that's slowly turning me into an agnostic, by the way. Hypocrisy makes my teeth hurt, and they always seem to hurt the most around Christians anymore. I'm personally starting to think that God's asleep at the switch because he lets some of you assholes get away with this crap in his name.

     Now I've never been to your church, LVLIBERTY, so I don't know what you preach. But two things have always bothered me coming from white, evangelical Christian ministers when it comes to dealing with black folks:

     1-Just how many more cheeks are we supposed to turn?

     I find it facsinating that whenever black folks bring up the issues that America still has when it comes to us, we're accused of "living in the past" or not "appreciating the opportunity of America". Remember those examples that I gave you earlier? Only one of those, my father's World War II experience, happened in the past. The other ones are less than 10 years old. What's the statute of limitations, LVLIBERTY?

     2-Why is it that you never hear the word "love" come from evangelical pulpits? My boyfriend, who still pretty much believes in God, is the one asking this question.

     Like I said, I'm sorry if I come off as if I don't recognize your heartfelt views. But it's really hard for me to keep hearing "get over it" when I have yet to hear "I'm see your point."

     Posted by edwriter at 03/16/2008 @ 01:23am

176. I'm see your point."

     I meant to say "I see your point."

     Posted by edwriter at 03/16/2008 @ 01:29am

177. To your dad wherever he may be: THANK YOU SIR FOR YOUR SERVICE

     Powerful words EdWriter

     Posted by winyahn at 03/16/2008 @ 01:32am

178. Posted by EDWRITER 03/16/2008 @ 01:23am | ignore this person

     My Mexican-American grandfather used to tell me...."only white people can be made to feel guilty over an offense that their grandfathers gave."

     How many other cheeks are you supposed to turn??? I think the was 72 or seven times that.....bibically speaking.

     Let me ask you.....how much BS do we have to hear about how someone is oppressing one group.

     I am an American of Latino descent. And yeah lower expectations, police looking at you a little harder, growing up in Texas. It wasnt smooth......but SO what???

     Is this your excuse for low achievement??????? My grandfather was beaten up after WWII the old ZOOT suiters, it wasnt merely in LA, he was forced out of a nieghborhood.

     But he told us NEVER to allow that to hold you back or fall into the mold of those who BLAME everyone else but themselves for the problems in their life. No one is going to take care of you, but you. And if you go to a place were you are not wanted??? Then fucking leave, you will be better off. Live the best life....follow the Christian values of do unto others and turn the other cheek and love God the Father, Son and HS. Well thats what he would tell us.

     So REV Wright is a FOOL. Obama went to THAT Church for 20 years and NEVER heard the crap he was spewing?? BS.

     This country is the BEST in the world.....no other comes close.

     Posted by CPT at 03/16/2008 @ 01:47am

179. You don't get it. You never will. And bringing up Africa is merely your way of trying to ignore what I've said. I didn't say shit about Africa, a country that has it's own issues.

     I was talking about America, a place that still doesn't want to recognize that it has issues that it needs to work out.

     Posted by EDWRITER 03/16/2008

     Gee, Ed, you're right. Us dumbass right-wingers just don't get it. But, Obama does. And, of course, you do. That's what makes you smart, and us dumb.

     And, That's why Africa is a country, not a continent. Now I get it.

     Posted by TransitDave at 03/16/2008 @ 02:04am

180. This country is the BEST in the world.....no other comes close.

     Posted by CPT 03/16/2008 @ 01:47am

     Considering thats opinion and not fact I wouldn't put too much weight on that statement.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/16/2008 @ 03:29am

181. Also, I think Markcanyon is ..NACL

     Posted by JOMAMMA 03/15/2008 @ 11:05am

     a pillar of salt...

     Posted by frosty zoom at 03/16/2008 @ 09:19am

182. ...BTW, know anywhere I can get a good price on baby seal coats? I know some Chinese who will buy all they can get..?

     Posted by JOMAMMA 03/15/2008 @ 2:28pm

     like i tried to disclaim,

     we (you and i) are essentially the same "people" and some lines drawn on a piece of paper mean nothing to the sky.

     greed knows no boundaries.

     the world's biggest single source emitter of sulphur dioxide is in sudbury, ontario.

     canadians pump out just as much CO2 as americans.

     much of ontario is completely deforested and this computer is nuclear powered.

     smacking seals with baseball bats is sick.

     and alberta is covered with feedlots cramming cows full of antibiotic feed.....

     god save america (in the continental sense, that is)

     Posted by frosty zoom at 03/16/2008 @ 09:28am

183. No different than McCains religous supporters Only they favor slavery.

     Posted by legion at 03/16/2008 @ 10:04am

184. And as Transitdave shows us again, presentation is more importan than content when it comes to the right.

     And CPT, while America may be the best to you, it's not the best to everyone. I can't see myself living anywhere else, except maybe for Spain, but that doesn't mean that I find America infallible. I'm a reporter that covers education and politics. I see America's big, glaring warts everyday.

     They're not going to go away until we put the Compound W of truth on them.

     Besides, one of the best things about America is this little thing that George W. Bush uses to wipe his ass with called the Constitution. That First Amendment that leads off the Bill of Rights says that I can point out America's foibles and try to get them fixed.

     And, by the way, so can Rev. Wright.

     Posted by edwriter at 03/16/2008 @ 10:31am

185. I'm a typo machine today.

     I forgot the 't' on the end of important.

     Also, I know that Africa is a continent. And like I said, it's got its own issues.

     But so does America. When are we going to deal with them?

     Posted by edwriter at 03/16/2008 @ 10:32am

186. "Pastor Wright, on the other hand, saved Barack Obama from secular hell only to see his disciple flounder on the shoals of Hillary Clinton's venomous and racist wrath." HKAPLAN

     Is Obama really floundering? Maybe it's just me, but he seems to look increasingly dignified & COOL headed & reasonable with every blast from the Billary slime machine. At the same time that Billary manufacture more poison gas for the GOP to use after Labor Day, they afford Obama yet another op, albeit highly testing, to show his qualities, which stand in such contrast to Billary's increasingly self-tarnished brand. Vide today's NYTimes piece on Super Delegates, wherein many Supers, none too subtly, express their exasperation with Billary.

     Posted by sloper at 03/16/2008 @ 10:56am

187. Posted by EDWRITER 03/16/2008 @ 10:32am | ignore this person

     Dont worry most of us dont take off for spelling.

     I am not saying it is perfect, it is simply better than other place in my opinon. in predomiantly Islamic countries you have dont have freedom of religon or speech, even moderate ones, you have to be careful. In Africa, corruption is riddles most of those govt, not to mention tribal and clanal issues. In Europe, they are too liberal for their own good, massive social programs and unwise immigration policies with HYPER-sensitive govts to their Muslim populations are going to bankrupt their countires, hell thats why they had to unite into the Union, just to compete.

     So yeah i think this country is GREAT for all its faults....it has a wonderful mechanisms of self-correction.

     And we do deal with our issues......you and your liberal friends, believe the government should take an active role with mountainous legislation, i believe differently

     Posted by CPT at 03/16/2008 @ 11:00am

188. Yo, EDWRITER you are so totally right on the money. Thank you for the inspiration.

     Posted by sloper at 03/16/2008 @ 11:02am

189. Posted by SLOPER 03/16/2008 @ 10:56am | ignore this person

     Yeah Wright has been great for OBAMA. OBAMA has been a memeber of his Chruch for 20 YEARS, he baptize his children, ministered his wedding, and OBAMA NEVER knew his radical and ridiculously stupid viewpoints

     Posted by CPT at 03/16/2008 @ 11:04am

190. I was a Barack Obama supporter but have serious problems with the excuses he is making about his pastor. How can you be an active member of a church for twenty years and claim that you were never present when the pastor made anti-American and anti-Israel sermons? Are we supposed to believe that the pastor made these statements only a few times? How stupid does Obama believe the voters are? The fact remains that in Black churches across America anti-semitism is a big problem and lambasting America is commonplace as well. The only surprise is that White Americans and Jewish Americans were not aware of what is going on every Sunday in these so called houses of worship. They are too often houses of hate.

     Posted by mjkoch at 03/16/2008 @ 11:50am

191. ...Happys and other rightwingers of this blog.....folks like me think you're stupid as hell....You don't get it. You never will.....

     Posted by EDWRITER 03/16/2008 @ 12:37am

     I see a lot of `victomology' in your writings and, whether you acknowledge or not, you bought into the America of Jesse Jackson & Al Sharpton. We maybe `stupid', even as we hope, and in my case, actively try to help the black underclass w/charter schools, to overcome this `victim' mindset that has outlived its uusefulness.

     What the `victim' mindset older blacks, typified by the Rev. Wright, refuses to do, is take a serious look at other minorities that have succeeded.....this covers the Irish (recall "No Irish Needs to Apply" signs of bygone times), Jews, the Chinese coolies building the rails in Western U.S., the interned Japanese-Americans, the Vietnamese Boat People, the Idians (from India), the Hipanics (normally after the first illegal generation), Africans, Caribean blacks, and on and on.

     America has stayed consistently the land of opportunity that even black men like Frederick Douglas recognized but not the Jacksons and Sharptons.

     Look at the reality of Obama's candidacy and tell me racism is central to the American experience. You're probably middle class or better, doesn't that tell you anything?

     You try to justify Rev. Wright's sermons....that some of his points are legitimate....try this and see how you feel:

     HAPPY's demonstration of the Wright' GDA sermon, but by a white Rev.: The black community's biggest problem today is mostly internal...it begins with the disappearance of the nuclear family, includes the embraces the rap culture, the disparaging of blacks who `ape' whites by focusing on education.....blah, blah, blah....God Damn Blacks in America.

     The charter school movement I'm in, is trying to drive the mindsets of folks JUST like you! "Be all you can be" is the mindset we are building with these poor black kids! Almost all the black adults in our local charter organization, are under 40....your generation stands in the way of your own race's future in America!!!!

     Posted by Happy at 03/16/2008 @ 11:53am

192. The charter school movement I'm in, is trying to drive OUT the mindsets of folks JUST like you....

     Posted by Happy at 03/16/2008 @ 11:56am

193. Interesting! Having read these postings for the better part of a year, I pretty much see the same posters. Some come and go, some are in for the long haul. But the thing that strikes me over and over again is the polarization, which will never be overcome. It doesn't matter who wins. I wonder if the populace as a whole is as polarized as the writers here? It is possible to get blog fatigue, and maybe perspective is lost. I personally have ideology fatigue. In my dark moments, I sometimes wish for Civil War II. Let's just quit the talking and finally have at it. Let the survivors rebuild as they see fit.

     Posted by sntauri at 03/16/2008 @ 12:44pm

194. I think "both are true". Racial factors are numerous, overlapping and complex. When oversimplified one major dimension or another is glossed over. GENERALLY SPEAKING it's better not to be named Hussein and to wear a flag lapel pin, and there's not zero hunger to see a person of color transcend the shadow of slavery / Jim Crow, or zero positive identification with Obama on behalf of some folks of some, e.g., poor/once poor & non-white.

     Actually, I haven't seen an analysis but I wonder how strong the correlation of voting based on income. How strong is the effect of poor/lower middle class status (regardless of race) on voting?

     Perhaps a variable like "personal experience of racial discrimination" would prove to be pretty strong.

     Hillary and McCain fans' preferences, in any sort of statistical analysis, would show some degree of sway based on comfort with same color, gender, economic class - but certainly less so: those most desperate in terms of economic hardship are most likely to vote based on the person they believe will help change their status. Those making 40,80,200,500K/year are simply less assaulted daily by shitty healthcare, , tv's, air conditioning, heat, cars, homes, schools, jobs.

     To argue this is due to a victim mindset, etc., is apples/oranges. I am only commenting on the relative weight of income/economic status on voting preferences.

     Posted by winyahn at 03/16/2008 @ 12:45pm

195. SNTAURI -- great insertion of reality. It's like we're all just talking to ourselves. Left-echobox and Right-echobox, and never the twain shall meet. Almost like it's just us and our little keyboards saying the same *&^$#@* over and over - to ourselves!

     I guess on the other side is the concept that even either a McCain or Hillary presidency = movement. America's bowel movement maybe, but this is a very under-rated bodily function.

     Posted by winyahn at 03/16/2008 @ 12:52pm

196. I have been a lifelong Democratic voter but I can no longer support Barack Obama and his hate-filled spiritual advisor. I will vote Republican in the next election for the first time.

     Posted by pontificus at 03/16/2008 @ 12:53pm

197. PONTIFICUS - if the criteria were "least suffering of humans across the globe for the next four years", would you still vote for McCain over Obama? With respect --

     Posted by winyahn at 03/16/2008 @ 1:08pm

198. Ponti-Can you try writing an honest post?

     Posted by i'm nobody at 03/16/2008 @ 1:12pm

199. Well, I wanted to vote for Obama because they told me he was a uniter, not a divider. I'm not sure how his condoning of the idea that white America invented AIDS and drugs to keep black America down fits into that objective.

     Posted by pontificus at 03/16/2008 @ 1:17pm

200. Ponti-You should have changed ids before lying.You guys did not care that Bush was endorsed by and counseled by preachers who are hate mongers and you don't care about this,either.

     Posted by i'm nobody at 03/16/2008 @ 1:19pm

201. Posted by I'M NOBODY 03/16/2008 @ 1:19pm

     Oh, I see. Two wrongs make a wright?

     Posted by pontificus at 03/16/2008 @ 1:20pm

202. Ponti-No.Your partisan hypocrisy makes you a joke.

     Posted by i'm nobody at 03/16/2008 @ 1:22pm

203. Hey IM, do you also condone sermons encouraging black people to sing 'God Damn America' as a way to 'unite, not divide' America?

     Posted by pontificus at 03/16/2008 @ 1:22pm

204. Ponti-Unlike you,I don't condone any form of hate monger,but you do as long as the hate monger is a Republican.

     Posted by i'm nobody at 03/16/2008 @ 1:24pm

205. Posted by I'M NOBODY 03/16/2008 @ 1:22pm

     Hey IM, maybe you could work that accusation of hypocrisy into Mr. Obama's reworked version of 'God Damn America'. You know, the one where he tells us we have to put down our hate?

     Posted by pontificus at 03/16/2008 @ 1:25pm

206. Ponti-I'm talking about you partisan hypocrites and your need to excuse your hate mongers while pointing the finger at someone else's hate monger.

     Posted by i'm nobody at 03/16/2008 @ 1:27pm

207. Posted by I'M NOBODY 03/16/2008 @ 1:24pm

     Ponti-Unlike you,I don't condone any form of hate monger

     That's odd. You say you are in favor of uniting the country and healing against hate mongering, and yet presumably you will vote for someone whose most important spiritual advisor preaches that black Americans should sing 'God Damn America' and that white America is killing blacks on purpose with drugs and AIDS. And you say that I am the hypocrite?

     Posted by pontificus at 03/16/2008 @ 1:29pm

208. Hey IM, sounds to me like you've been taking lessons in moral consistency from Mr. Spitzer.

     Posted by pontificus at 03/16/2008 @ 1:34pm

209. Hey, does anybody know what Party Gov. Spitzer belongs to? I think I've read about a dozen news stories about him, but it never seems to say. He must not be a Republican, the press never seems to have any problem identifying THEM when they get into ethical soup. Curious, that.

     Posted by pontificus at 03/16/2008 @ 1:36pm

210. Ponti-I'm the one condemning all hate mongers while you are the one sounding like Spitzer.I'm not going to vote for the preacher.I don't think he's running for anything,anyway.

     Posted by i'm nobody at 03/16/2008 @ 1:38pm

211. Ponti-Spitzer has been identified as a Democrat hundreds of times.Why did you lie about that,also?

     Posted by i'm nobody at 03/16/2008 @ 1:39pm

212. Posted by I'M NOBODY 03/16/2008 @ 1:38pm

     Oh, I see. So the fact that Rev. Wright is Obama's most trusted spiritual advisor troubles you not a whit? Whatever.

     Posted by pontificus at 03/16/2008 @ 1:41pm

213. Ponti-As you know,that preacher is no longer his adviser and hasn't been for awhile.And,no,I don't particularly care what someones preacher said.I want to know what the person says.

     Posted by i'm nobody at 03/16/2008 @ 1:43pm

214. Posted by I'M NOBODY 03/16/2008 @ 1:43pm

     Ponti-As you know,that preacher is no longer his adviser and hasn't been for awhile.And,no,I don't particularly care what someones preacher said.I want to know what the person says.

     Oh, so I guess if McCain regularly attended lectures by David Duke or the leader of the American Nazi Party, you would not hold that against him? My, you are open minded, aren't you.

     Posted by pontificus at 03/16/2008 @ 1:51pm

215. Posted by I'M NOBODY 03/16/2008 @ 1:43pm

     Ponti-As you know,that preacher is no longer his adviser and hasn't been for awhile.

     What, you mean like, a week? About the same amount of time this became a problem for Obama? After 20 years?

     Posted by pontificus at 03/16/2008 @ 1:57pm

216. Ponti-The discussion is about preachers who are hate mongers.If McCain had said that Falwell had been his mentor,but that he disagreed with his hate speech and claim that gays caused 9/11 then I would not hold it against him that Falwell had been his mentor.I think that Obama picked a bad mentor,but that was awhile ago and he has distanced himself from him as I would expect McCain to do had Falwell been his mentor.I'm afraid that this isn't mattering to most people and is something that will be forgotten shortly so enjoy it while you can.

     Posted by i'm nobody at 03/16/2008 @ 2:03pm

217. Ponti-Your desperation to make this into a big deal amuses,but,like all such things,America will forget about it shortly.

     Posted by i'm nobody at 03/16/2008 @ 2:05pm

218. Posted by I'M NOBODY 03/16/2008 @ 2:03pm

     The discussion is about preachers who are hate mongers.

     So, you're saying that although Obama's most important spiritual advisor for the last 20 years is a hate monger, you hope that people will forget about that soon?

     Posted by pontificus at 03/16/2008 @ 2:08pm

219. Ponti-I did not say that I hoped that people would forget about it soon,but you already knew that.I said that America will forget about it soon because that's what we do.The moment another politician is caught with their pants down or when another politician says or does something news worthy it will be Wright who?Never heard of him.That's the way we are.That's why it's good for Obama that it came out now.It will be played out and forgotten by November.

     Posted by i'm nobody at 03/16/2008 @ 2:13pm

220. Posted by I'M NOBODY 03/16/2008 @ 2:13pm

     Ponti-I did not say that I hoped that people would forget about it soon,but you already knew that.I said that America will forget about it soon because that's what we do.The moment another politician is caught with their pants down or when another politician says or does something news worthy it will be Wright who?Never heard of him.That's the way we are.That's why it's good for Obama that it came out now.It will be played out and forgotten by November.

     So we'll all forget about it because we're stupid?

     Posted by pontificus at 03/16/2008 @ 2:15pm

221. Ponti-We Americans quickly forget and move on to the next thing because that is what our cultural coding tells us to do.That is the attitude that conquered and settled this country.It's a big country with many people getting themselves in the news by saying and doing scandalous things,but we tire quickly of the latest scandal and want a new one.That's just the way we are.

     Posted by i'm nobody at 03/16/2008 @ 2:19pm

222. Posted by I'M NOBODY 03/16/2008 @ 2:19pm

     Oh, I see. So if it became public knowledge today, say, that McCain had been attending KKK lectures for 20 years, it would be okay as long as he stopped attending them as soon as it became public knowledge, because Americans are forgiving people?

     Posted by pontificus at 03/16/2008 @ 2:22pm

223. Posted by I'M NOBODY...

     Don't feed the trolls...

     These guys (guise?) seem to think that being disagreeable makes them seem smart. Unfortunately, so too do your ernest replies. This is not a reflection on you... He's just screwing with you.

     Like about 66.6 % of the internet. (I'm in a charitable mood this Sunday morn...)

     Posted by ttr at 03/16/2008 @ 2:23pm

224. Ponti-Byrd was forgiven for his KKK past.Attending KKK or nazi party meetings is viewed differently than attending church,but you already knew that.

     Posted by i'm nobody at 03/16/2008 @ 2:24pm

225. Posted by TTR 03/16/2008 @ 2:23pm

     And you making excuses for Obama makes you smart?

     Posted by pontificus at 03/16/2008 @ 2:25pm

226. TTR-It does appear that he is just arguing for the sake of arguing.

     Posted by i'm nobody at 03/16/2008 @ 2:26pm

227. Ponti-As you know,I did not make excuses for Obama and stated that I would not hold this against a Republican which I didn't when I found out that Bush had advisers who are hate monger preachers.Bush lost my support because of his weak response to 9/11 and Iraq.I did not care about the preachers he hung out with.I figured that freedom of religion means just that as does freedom to speak..My views are consistent,but yours are partisan and hypocritical.

     Posted by i'm nobody at 03/16/2008 @ 2:31pm

228. KKK = A sermon... MMM Hmmm... sure.

     Leave that dead horse alone, Ponti... People are starting to wonder... ;^)

     Posted by ttr at 03/16/2008 @ 2:33pm

229. Ponti... I've tried everything, and all I can tell you is that nothing makes me smart.

     I have to make up for it by trying really hard, and reading a lot...;^)

     Posted by ttr at 03/16/2008 @ 2:38pm

230. eular-Ever since Hillary endorsed McCain he has gone up in the polls and is now soundly beating both in a head to head GE match up.

     Posted by i'm nobody at 03/16/2008 @ 3:13pm

231. The vile anti-semitism among American Blacks is equal to and sometimes worse than the hatred of Jews in Arab countries. Jews account for less than 2% of the population in America. They are teachers, lawyers, accountants, doctors, salesman, computer programmers, etc., etc. Jews do not head the oil companies, pharmaceutical companies, automobile companies, or major manufacturers and are normal, every day citizens in normal every day jobs. The President and Vice President are not Jews, neither is the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court or the Speaker of the House of Representatives. There is no candidate running for President who is Jewish, but yet Blacks intensely hate Jews FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER. When Tim Russert asked Obama about Farrakhan Obama did respond correctly about healing the breach between Blacks and Jews but how can you heal the breach when you sat there for twenty years hearing your pastor attack Jews and you kept silent? If Hillary Clinton or John McCain were enthusiastic members of a church for twenty years that constantly and openly demeaned and debased Blacks with vile hateful rhetoric do you really believe the Democratic and Republican parties would allow them to be their nominee? There is a double standard and the Pied Piper of Chicago is getting away with something no white politician who sat idly by while their pastor's anti-semitic rantings continued without end would ever be granted a pass on.

     Posted by mjkoch at 03/16/2008 @ 4:25pm

232. Take a more thorough look, MJ... Obama isn't anti-semetic in the least...

     Posted by ttr at 03/16/2008 @ 5:14pm

233. How is "God damn America" any different from Falwell's statement that America deserved to be attacked on 9/11? Or John Hagee's comment about the Catholic Church being the Great Whore?

     Mr. Obama denounced and rejected Mr. Wright's comments saying, "Let me say at the outset that I vehemently disagree and strongly condemn the statements that have been the subject of this controversy. I categorically denounce any statement that disparages our great country or serves to divide us from our allies. I also believe that words that degrade individuals have no place in our public dialogue, whether it's on the campaign stump or in the pulpit. In sum, I reject outright the statements by Rev. Wright that are at issue."

     And here is what Mr. McCain had to say about Mr. Hagee's comments and endorsement, "When he endorses me, it does not mean that I embrace everything that he stands for and believes."

     Posted by tomanderson at 03/16/2008 @ 7:10pm

234. That about wraps it up, Tom...

     Thanks

     Posted by ttr at 03/16/2008 @ 8:17pm

235. How is "God damn America" any different from Falwell's statement that America deserved to be attacked on 9/11? Or John Hagee's comment about the Catholic Church being the Great Whore?

     Posted by TOMANDERSON 03/16/2008 @ 7:10pm

     Falwell had his moment of insanity when he echoed the anti-America Left and sounded just like Rev. Wright! Given 9/11 is the single most traumatic national event in just about all our lives--acknowledgement to those who remembers Pearl Harbor first hand--excuses can be made for the extreme range of reactions! To some of our relief, at least Falwell didn't advocate interning all gays and lesbians.

     Hagee's prejudice against the Catholic Church is material here in what way? Does anyone equate the CC w/America? Or that Hagee mentored any POTUS candidate for 20 years, married said candidate, baptized him and his children?

     Posted by Happy at 03/16/2008 @ 8:38pm

236. Wright was not pissed at the Grand Canyon, Paul Revere, Lincoln, -- but at a narrow definition of "America", some contemporaneous version of "the man" (as in driving while black, whether on not one judges such a perspective = some terrible victim mindset). You know the mannnn - the one that helped out when Katrina hit.

     Hagee's whore comment was aimed at Catholicism, with Catholic Americans an obvious subset. At least I doubt he meant only French, German and Iraqi Catholics.

     Posted by winyahn at 03/16/2008 @ 9:21pm

237. "In my dark moments, I sometimes wish for Civil War II. Let's just quit the talking and finally have at it. Let the survivors rebuild as they see fit."

     Posted by SNTAURI 03/16/2008 @ 12:44pm

     Hmmm.....lemme think....

     Posted by PONTIFICUS 03/16/2008 @ 1:22pm Posted by PONTIFICUS 03/16/2008 @ 1:25pm Posted by PONTIFICUS 03/16/2008 @ 1:29pm Posted by PONTIFICUS 03/16/2008 @ 1:34pm Posted by PONTIFICUS 03/16/2008 @ 1:36pm

     ...OK.

     Eric

     Posted by Malcontent at 03/16/2008 @ 10:31pm

238. Happy,

     Why don't you compare the personal histories of Rev Wright, John Hagee, and Jerry Falwell before making such an asinine comment?

     Blacks in America were slaves for 250 years, followed by another hundred years or more of inequality. Rev Wright was born in 1941 and grew up during the most violent time of America's domestic history. During this time, it goes without saying that Rev Wright was part of an oppressive culture ON A DAILY BASIS. Many blacks living during this time witnessed some of the most inhumane treatment of blacks and others ON A DAILY BASIS. And in 1961 Rev Wright honored his country by serving in the armed forces even before his country would honor him or his race as equals. And even though the Civil Rights Amendment of 1964 was passed, equality did not happen over night.

     None of the controversial topics by Falwell, Hagee, or Wright or defensible, but Mr. Wright's is certainly understandable. Since when have Christians in America been persecuted like blacks?

     Like Mr. Obama said, Rev Wright is part of a different generation. Unfortunately, some of them haven't gotten over it. But at least Mr. Obama is trying to transcend the problems of the past (and present). And all this talk about 20 years of attending this church. You and others act as if Rev Wright was damning America every Sunday. Was he? If so, please show some documentation.

     Let me give you another example. If a Native America said God damn America, I would not think he or she is unpatriotic. My god, what have we given them to be patriotic about?

     Get the picture?

     Posted by tomanderson at 03/16/2008 @ 10:36pm

239. Developmental data shows that crossing the chasm from ethnocentric, my country - love it or leave it reductionism - to the next, worldcentric perspective, takes many people decades.

     Posted by winyahn at 03/16/2008 @ 10:48pm

240. If a Native America said God damn America, I would not think he or she is unpatriotic. My god, what have we given them to be patriotic about?

     Get the picture?

     Posted by TOMANDERSON 03/16/2008 @ 10:36pm

     I "get the picture" loud clear....those who say "God damn America" and those who defends them, are UNPATRIOTIC A-HOLES AND ARE THE PROBLEMS, NOT THE SOLUTION!

     Do you "God Damn" your parents for anything they have done wrong when in the whole, they were decent parents? Do you "God Damn" your wife? Your kids? Your friends? and more so, shout it out in public anger to the world, to incite said world?

     Do YOU get the picture of why the Rev. is such a Big Story? I hope all of you get on the news to make the `defenses' as you did here! There are things that can't be defended, STUPID!

     Posted by Happy at 03/17/2008 @ 12:23am

241. Unfortunately, the candidates do not exhibit the courage to tell the media directly that they will not respond to questions about someone else's behavior; that if they want an understanding to what someone says, they should talk with that person. All humans make mistakes. My views are my views, his/her views are his/her views. I will not denounce or reject any American, though I may disagree with them. I support the Constitution of the United States and the laws that govern us, but each of us are responsible for our own actions.

     Posted by afrothetics at 03/17/2008 @ 12:32am

242. Happy,

     No need for namecalling. It's clear that you are letting your emotions interfere with your intellect. I'm reluctant to respond to your emotional comments because I doubt you will be able to rationally debate the issue at hand. Nonetheless, I will give you the benefit of doubt. Now, do you get the big picture? If not, no need to respond. We will just have to agree to disagree.

     Have I ever damned my parents, wife, kids, etc? No, because they have never directly persecuted or oppressed me. Neither have they served as part of a institution that perpetuated a system of persecution or oppression against me.

     Posted by tomanderson at 03/17/2008 @ 12:40am

243. CORRECTED RESPONSE TO HAPPY PLEASE DISREGARD EARLIER COMMENT

     Happy,

     No need for namecalling. It's clear that you are letting your emotions interfere with your intellect. I'm reluctant to respond to your emotional comments because I doubt you will be able to rationally debate the issue at hand. Nonetheless, I will give you the benefit of doubt.

     Have I ever damned my parents, wife, kids, etc? No, because they have never directly persecuted or oppressed me. Neither have they served as part of a institution that perpetuated a system of persecution or oppression against me. Now, do you get the big picture? If not, no need to respond. We will just have to agree to disagree.

     Posted by tomanderson at 03/17/2008 @ 12:43am

244. Billary & Co. will do whatever it takes to stop Obama from winning what they & their major donors believe is their entitlement. None of this past week's race card dirt tactics should surprise us - how dare people of color damn the society that oppressed them, what unpatriotic gall. No surprise at all, not in view of the Billary-backing NYTimes running that front page piece a few weeks ago suggesting Obama's assassination. Never a similar inflammatory, unconscionable peep of sordid speculation about Billary. That suggestion of murder said it all. We are now on notice.

     Posted by sloper at 03/17/2008 @ 02:57am

245. John McCain 28 February 2000

     '...Neither party should be defined by pandering to the outer reaches of American politics and the agents of intolerance, whether they be Louis Farrakhan or Al Sharpton on the left, or Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell on the right....'

     - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

     National Public Radio Blogs 17 March 2008 http:// www.npr.org/ blogs/news/2008/01/ barack_obama_and_the_influence.html

     '...Washington Post columnist Richard Cohen, however, is not so crazy about Wright's message. He writes that in 1982 Wright founded Trumpet Newsmagazine; his daughters serve as publisher and executive editor. And Cohen takes exception to the magazine's naming of Louis Farrakhan as the winner of the Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Trumpeter Award, saying he was a man who "truly epitomized greatness."

     Cohen, however, believes that Farrakhan "epitomizes racism" for most Americans. He adds that he sees nothing in Obama's record that supports anti-Semitism of any kind, or agrees with the award given to Farrakhan. But praise for an "anti-Semitic demagogue is not a minor difference or an intrachurch issue."

     "The Obama camp takes the view that its candidate, now that he has been told about the award, is under no obligation to speak out on the Farrakhan matter," writes Cohen. "It was not Obama's church that made the award but a magazine. This is a distinction without much of a difference. And given who the parishioner is, the obligation to speak out is all the greater. He could be the next American president. Where is his sense of outrage?"...'

     Posted by HonestLiberal at 03/17/2008 @ 09:32am

246. I've spent a lot of time on here talking about the need to get over our obsession with race, to can the guilt trips about what is for the most part a magnificient history: to forget red & blue, black & white and divisive agenda driven concepts like "multiculturalism".

     Guys like Wright are part of the problem.He's a despicable parasite who would die of boredom if he had no outlet for his hate. This is not to say that ARI is wrong when he points up the same nonsense coming from the Feiths' of the world. Together they represent the Left & Right Towers of Castle Malice.

     Obama stands to change all this: Thats why he'll no doubt have my vote if he's the Dems choice. As for Hillary, if Wright is an example of the hate driven, guilt mongering support she has, then they can all go to hell, and I will consider her eight year reign an interregnum.

     Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 03/17/2008 @ 11:05am

247. Though he still lives in Goddammed America Wright seems to have no problem enjoying its Goddammed wealth or partaking of its Goddammed freedoms. Bet he couldn't find all that in his Goddammed country of origin, could he? Sounds like a Goddammed hypocrite to me!

     Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 03/17/2008 @ 11:57am

248. Chip-Wright was born in Penn and last I heard Penn was part of America making America his country of origin.

     Posted by i'm nobody at 03/17/2008 @ 1:01pm

249. I'm Nobody:

     You know what I mean

     Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 03/17/2008 @ 1:11pm

250. Chip-I have no idea what you mean.Hopefully,you aren't saying that wherever our ancestors came from is our country of origin since that would be nonsensical.Few Americans are purebreds.We're Heinz 57.Mutts .

     Posted by i'm nobody at 03/17/2008 @ 1:46pm

251. This may be a shock, but apart from the "GD America" rant, the words of Rev. Wright were true and would be supported by most African Americans in the USA. Moreover, to criticize this nation is not to be separatist or un-American. Watch the HBO special on John Adams. He was a patriot. If we cannot accept fiery words of dissent, then we have forgotten what the Constitution means. Visit a black church and you will hear spirited sermons every Sunday. While most focus on the Bible, there are many who address the more mundane issues of life as a member of a minority group whose ancestors were brought here as slaves and can still feel the stings of second class citizenship. I have a Harvard Law degree, but was called the "N" word in Harvard Square. I cannot shop in high-end stores without the accompaniment of a store detective. When I indignantly called the CEO of the company, I had a senior position in a congressional committee. What more do I have to do to be equal? This is something we live with every day. At least Barack has the optimism to believe the majority will get past its own race-consciousness to allow all of us to be welcome, after nearly 400 years.

     Posted by ShirleyJ at 03/17/2008 @ 2:03pm

252. I was referring to his African heritage, I'm Noby, and his ability to live the kind of life here, which he seems to hate so much, compared to there, where he wouldn't return to any more than you or I would. I'm not a "love it or leave it" type, but for Christ sake, if you feel such malice for your country, why the hell do you stay?

     Or perhaps he's really a peaceful sheep and Hillary just paid him to make Barack look bad.

     Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 03/18/2008 @ 07:51am

253. Chip,

     With all due respect, I think you and others let someone else's emotions (in this case hatred) influence your own emotions. This is how wars start. More people need to learn how to let things go. Was Rev. Wright breaking the law or was he expressing a protected right under the law? SO what if he dislikes or even hates some aspects of America. Just because one lives here doesn't mean one has to accept or like everything. And I seriously doubt Rev Wright preaches like that every Sunday. If he does, oh well. He must be doing something right because his church has about 8000 members. In the end, I think there are more important things to worry about, like healthcare, poverty, the economy, etc. And I don't trust the Republicans to take care of such things.

     Posted by tomanderson at 03/18/2008 @ 09:43am

254. You know Tom, you're absolutly right.

     Sometimes I just really let the hatred get to me, especially when it comes from the side thats going to "make us all better Americans"

     But clear thinking people realize that. And I'm not being sarcastic either. You're right. Thanks

     Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 03/18/2008 @ 10:25am

255. Chip,

     Sarcasm or not, it still beats hatred. Good job.

     Posted by tomanderson at 03/18/2008 @ 10:58am

256. Have a good day, old boy

     Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 03/18/2008 @ 11:12am