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RedditJohn McCain has put a statement supposedly clarifying his endorsement and campaign appearance yesterday with radical pastor John Hagee.
"Yesterday, Pastor John Hagee endorsed my candidacy for president in San Antonio, Texas. However, in no way did I intend for his endorsement to suggest that I in turn agree with all of Pastor Hagee's views, which I obviously do not.
"I am hopeful that Catholics, Protestants and all people of faith who share my vision for the future of America will respond to our message of defending innocent life, traditional marriage, and compassion for the most vulnerable in our society."
I am waiting for Tim Russert to press McCain on exactly which views of Hagee's he rejects. A preemptive strike on Iran? The failure of the Jews to accept the Lord? Referring to the Catholic Church as the "anti-Christ" and "Great Whore?"
More importantly, will McCain "reject and denounce" Hagee, as Obama was forced to do with Louis Farrakhan?
Clearly, the answer is no.
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If I'm reading this correctly, Grandpa used Hagee to look good to the right-wing nutjobs then threw him under the Straight Talk Express so he could maintain his indie cred. Real slick there ol' man!
Posted by yutsano at 02/29/2008 @ 4:52pm
come the rapture...we'll have the world to ourselves!
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/29/2008 @ 4:53pm
Clearly, the answer is no.
Not enough political fallout to force him to do so, as there are more in the US that support Hagee's views than there are that support Farakkahn's. McCain has the benefit of being able to distance himself from Hagee, as he did with his statement, and still benefit from Hagee's message that is reverberating it's way through Ignorant America. By the way, what percent of American's still beleive Saddam Hussein had something to do with 911?
Posted by MATTMAN at 02/29/2008 @ 4:58pm
How about "reject, denounce, AND repudiate"!
This really is getting silly.
Posted by Metteyya at 02/29/2008 @ 5:16pm
Hagee is NO Farrakhan.....that is the HUGE difference.
Posted by CPT at 02/29/2008 @ 5:30pm
Pastor Hagee's hateful views.
Posted by ZERO 02/29/2008 @ 5:00pm | ignore this person
I always chuckle when liberals speak of "hateful" views from the right......
Posted by CPT at 02/29/2008 @ 5:34pm
Posted by CPT 02/29/2008 @ 5:34pm | ignore this person
derision is an effective form of denial...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/29/2008 @ 5:51pm
I always chuckle when liberals speak of "hateful" views from the right......
Posted by CPT 02/29/2008 @ 5:34pm
Please elaborate on the hilarity of the xenophobic, racist, classist, homophobic tendencies of the right that the left take issue with.
Posted by MATTMAN at 02/29/2008 @ 5:54pm
Hagee is NO Farrakhan.....that is the HUGE difference.
Posted by CPT 02/29/2008 @ 5:30pm
Not in the least.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 02/29/2008 @ 6:28pm
HA HA HA! ITS ON THE MSM EVENING NEWS!!!!!
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/29/2008 @ 6:34pm
LORD PROTECT ME FROM YOUR PEOPLE!!!!
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/29/2008 @ 6:36pm
I watch Hagee on occassion, and he is sure as hell no farrakan.
Yes, the jews do reject jesus, why is that offensive to say? No, he does not call the catholic church "a whore", he talks about "end times" all the time and claims the reference in revelations to some sort of whore is really the catholic church.
And by the way, Mccain supports a pre-emptive strike on iran, so why would that be something to renounce?
Sorry, ari, but you should be spending your free time trying to figure out a way to get Naomi Klein to STFU, not worthlessly finding analogies that do not exist.
Posted by Stubine at 02/29/2008 @ 7:25pm
Zero, Farrakan has made statements such as "Judiasm is a gutter religion", "white people are devils", "Jews are pigs" etc etc etc
Hagee simply has never talked like this, even about homosexuals. You may not agree with him, but there's a difference between outright insults of groups and Hagee's preaching.
Posted by Stubine at 02/29/2008 @ 7:40pm
Mattman: do you reeaaaally want him to elaborate on anything at all? think carefully here. remember: if you don't ask him to elaborate, maybe he just won't.
Posted by ZERO 02/29/2008 @ 7:28pm
Just trying to pick a fight before I gotta leave. 5 minutes and counting!
Posted by MATTMAN at 02/29/2008 @ 7:40pm
Hagee is embraced by the right.
Farrakahn is embraced by neither the right or left, but somehow the media ties him to every black politician that's ever been in the same room with him. Since most black politicians are lefty, the fallacious logic then is deduced that Farrakahn is somehow a figurehead of the left.
Posted by MATTMAN at 02/29/2008 @ 7:43pm
Matt, yea, he's a total canard and its despicable that Obama ever had to even mention him.
However, Hagee still isn't Farrakan.
Posted by Stubine at 02/29/2008 @ 7:50pm
Louie the F may be a danger to me, personally, through the discredited ideas he spreads, but he has been of real service to his community. His bad ideas will never be implemented nationally or internationally.
McCain, in his own right, as a cold war dinosaur up to his knees in retrograde tar pit, is a dangerous man to the Republic and the world. His embrace of this Hagee character is a cliche of power-obsessed politics. What makes Hagee more dangerous than Louie the F is that he's white, white demagogues appeal to crazy white people, and crazy white people still run things hereabouts.
Posted by JFHill at 02/29/2008 @ 8:46pm
and Gloria Steinem.
Posted by ZERO 02/29/2008 @ 7:47pm | ignore this person
women are so frightening, aren't they?
Posted by emile duBois at 02/29/2008 @ 10:05pm
Who in the hell is Hagee??
If he spoke at the National Mall would 400,000 people show up and cheer as he spoke of the evils of other races, homosexuality, mixed marriages, and Jews?
Posted by bleedingheart at 02/29/2008 @ 10:16pm
Posted by BLEEDINGHEART 02/29/2008 @ 10:16pm | ignore this person
question? were you there to hear the speeches? have they been published anywhere?
Posted by emile duBois at 02/29/2008 @ 10:28pm
Didnt you get the memo you are only suppose to reject and denounce when its all forms of Islam radical Islam and Non Radical. Radical christianity is acceptable. We shouldnt be afraid of radical Christianity its better than All forms of Islam. Its interesting that Obama was making the point that John McCain is now making but Hillary came and said well you must emphatically reject and denounce which he did. Smart guy. Poor Hillary I think she thought he would fight her on the point. Thats why he is a better negotiator than her he knows when to argue a point and when to concede a point.
I was reading somewhere that Farrakhan told his followers to still vote for Obama. Its intersting because Farrakhan wasnt even endorsing Obama but this Hagee is endorsing McCain. Can we say double standard.
Carol
Posted by harriscrl3 at 02/29/2008 @ 10:56pm
Posted by MATTMAN 02/29/2008 @ 5:54pm | ignore this person
I find it very amusing the intolerance that LEFT has for any kind of thinking that isnt "correct" in their eyes......especially when of ALL people ZERO, who has on this site cited how Israel should not exist at all. Now perhaps he has had a change of heart....it has been long time since i have regularly posted here, but i doubt it.
Posted by CPT at 02/29/2008 @ 11:26pm
Posted by HARRISCRL3 02/29/2008 @ 10:56pm | ignore this person
Gee Carol, can you cite me where in the last 100 yrs where radical Christianity has caused thousands of deaths????? Go 200yrs, hell go back 300 if you can find it....somehow i doubt you will be able to though
Posted by CPT at 02/29/2008 @ 11:31pm
Posted by EMILE DUBOIS 02/29/2008 @ 10:28pm | ignore this person
Well forgive BleedingHeart, after all Farrakhan gives so many hateful speeches it is rather easy to get them mixed up on occasion
Posted by CPT at 02/29/2008 @ 11:33pm
Posted by RIO BRAVO 02/29/2008 @ 11:48pm | ignore this person
hmmm...bush took office in 01...its 08...uh oh!!!!
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/29/2008 @ 11:51pm
Posted by RIO BRAVO 02/29/2008 @ 11:48pm | ignore this person
yeah rio, the world's been ending for almost 2000 years now.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 02/29/2008 @ 11:53pm
Posted by CPT 02/29/2008 @ 11:31pm
How about the estimated 1.2 million killed by G.W. Bush in Iraq? He sure sold the invasion as a Holy Crusade. And if you are going to be so generous in giving me three hundred years, let's go closer to home and look at the genocide of pagan Native Americans by the christianist Americans.
Posted by human power at 03/01/2008 @ 12:03am
Posted by RIO BRAVO 03/01/2008 @ 12:22am
1.) Check out the treaty of Tripoli. That would be the first treaty unanimously ratified by the Senate. It states that we are most definitely not a "Christian Nation".
2.) Hey genius, how is bubba going to fill up his F-150 if we nuke the oil fields? For that matter, how is he going to eat with no fertilizer?
Posted by human power at 03/01/2008 @ 12:49am
Do you have to have everything explained to you?
Posted by RIO BRAVO 03/01/2008 @ 12:57am
Yes, I do. I'm not clear on how one drills for oil without a crew? Or do you anticipate suicide drilling crews. I understand death from radiation poisoning (loss of intestinal epithelium, loss of immune system, etc) is quite unpleasant even for the "saved" and certain of his heavanly reward.
Posted by human power at 03/01/2008 @ 01:02am
How about "reject, denounce, AND repudiate" Attorney General Michael Mukasey for succumbing to a hsuB dic'tatorship and throwing our government and laws under the bus. Where's the national outcry to the sickening cowardice?
WASHINGTON -- Attorney General Michael Mukasey refused Friday to refer the House's contempt citations against two of President Bush's top aides to a federal grand jury. Mukasey said White House Chief of Staff Josh Bolten and former presidential counsel Harriet Miers committed no crime.
As promised, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced that she has given the Judiciary Committee authority to file a lawsuit against Bolten and Miers in federal court.
"The House shall do so promptly," she said in a statement.
Mukasey said Bolten and Miers were right in ignoring subpoenas to provide Congress with White House documents or testify about the firings of federal prosecutors.
"The department will not bring the congressional contempt citations before a grand jury or take any other action to prosecute Mr. Bolten or Ms. Miers," Mukasey wrote Pelosi.
Pelosi shot back that the aides can expect a lawsuit.
"The American people demand that we uphold the law," Pelosi said. "As public officials, we take an oath to uphold the Constitution and protect our system of checks and balances and our civil lawsuit seeks to do just that."
Posted by hsuBfools at 03/01/2008 @ 01:39am
Weren't all you Conserves on here just gnashing your teeth at Obama he gave up his familiarity with Farrakhan. You were saying he was being a hypocrite and since he had associated with an associate of Farrakhan's he must be a horrible racist? You were saying he was appearing only politically advantageous and selling out his beliefs by not glorifying Farrakhan's endorsement.
Why is John McCain getting off where Obama didn't this is a very similar situation. He got an endorsement from someone who can be viewed as politically useful and politically suicidal at the same time. He manipulates the situation to say he appreciates the endorsement, so he doesn't piss off the evangelical right, however this doesn't mean he agrees with his views, so he doesn't piss off everyone else. This is just as politically crafty of what you accuse Obama of. However as usual you are willing to defend your politician against something that you attempt to crucify the other politician with.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/01/2008 @ 03:14am
Posted by RIO BRAVO 03/01/2008 @ 12:57am
Yeah problem is who is going to drill for oil in a nuclear hot zone? Also if we released enough bombs to destroy the entirety of the middle east we would destroy the entirety of the world with it.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/01/2008 @ 03:18am
I don't know about you Rio, but I'm not a roach I can't survive nuclear winter.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/01/2008 @ 03:19am
Posted by RIO BRAVO 02/29/2008 @ 11:48pm
I love Christians. You realize I could pick up the Bible and pull any interpretation out of it I want. I can use a billion different things to prove that the world should have ended already. The world isn't going to end by God's hand and it isn't going to happen according to some book in a bigger book that's for lessons not history and prophesying. It will end by wackjobs who think the first response to everything should be war.
Tell me which prophesies have come true in recent years to prove that the world is going to end and shouldn't have already?
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/01/2008 @ 03:28am
It is funny that the candidate from the right tries to get as "universal" (appeal to the electorate) as he possibly can - he even speaks of compassion to the most vulnerable evoking that other "compassionate-conservative" (really hawkish and spender) while not committing to any specifics drawing a line between himself and the pastor. Nice walk in the tight rope.
Except for three things: taxes, the war, and abortion, he will come up as almost 'any other blue dog Dem'. Is it not nice that our country is coming to be united!
Posted by Frank42 at 03/01/2008 @ 03:53am
>
Very good!
Posted by ishtar at 03/01/2008 @ 05:26am
How about "reject, denounce, AND repudiate"!
Very good!
Posted by ishtar at 03/01/2008 @ 05:27am
Posted by HUMAN POWER 03/01/2008 @ 12:03am | ignore this person
Sorry Buddy, you are way off base.....FIRSTLY your casualty estimates no doubt come from false far left sources....but you guys have a penchant for that stuff.
Secondly that wasnt a Christian crusade hero.......there hasnt been on of those in 700 yrs.......no doubt you are picking up that one word in one speech many years ago and taking THAT as the basis for a policy that doesn exist......wow talk about reaching.
But if you can call the office of Christian conversions in Iraq, give me the number and i shall stand corrected.
Posted by CPT at 03/01/2008 @ 09:52am
Posted by HSUBFOOLS 03/01/2008 @ 01:39am | ignore this person
Where was your false outrage when the Clinton adminstration did the SAME thing????? I guess your outrage depends o who does it
Posted by CPT at 03/01/2008 @ 09:57am
Posted by CCCOMFO1 03/01/2008 @ 03:14am | ignore this person
Gee if Farrakhan had only expressed hateful views of Jews, he would probably get a pass....but he has been very liberal in his hateful remarks....he doesn compare with Hagee....the only reason its an issue here is that Hagee is an evangelical....and the Nation cant stand those people.
Posted by CPT at 03/01/2008 @ 10:00am
Who in the hell is Hagee??
Posted by BLEEDINGHEART 02/29/2008 @ 10:16pm
My thoughts, almost exactly....except I've heard of his name but can't put a face to it! IF he's famous or influential, good for him....otherwise, he needs to consult w/Farrakhan on how to become really, really well known!
Posted by Happy at 03/01/2008 @ 11:12am
Posted by CPT 02/29/2008 @ 11:31pm | ignore this person
radical islam is a misnomer. these are radicals who happen to be muslim. there is no religious war there. they're not attacking us because we're christians, some of us are, they are fighting because the west has had its boot on their neck for a long time.
the arab countries have the oil. and who owns the oil? British and American oil companies.
yes, they use Islam to motivate their suicide bombers. give them some real bombers like B52s etc and they won't have to use suicide bombers. anyway, these are political struggles not religious ones.
Posted by emile duBois at 03/01/2008 @ 11:24am
Rio-Making it up that most of these prophesies have happened is rather lame and desperate since you have no evidence that that is the case..Not one person knows what the book of Daniel means nor does anyone have a clue as to what revelations means.If you'd actually read the Bible you'll discover that there aren't any prophets in it with one exception.Jesus.The rest flunked the prophet test that exists in Dt.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 11:29am
Rio-I know that you don't know enough about the Bible to answer this question,but I'll ask anyway.Jesus said that you sign seekers are evil,but you believe that Jesus is coming to get the people he said were evil so what does that say about your view of Jesus?
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 11:33am
CPT-Both farrakhan and hagee engage in the same behavior,but you excuse one,but not the other.In no way shape or form has farrakhan expressed liberal views.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 11:47am
Posted by EMILE DUBOIS 03/01/2008 @ 11:24am | ignore this person
To not recognize Islam has the primariy motivator in many of these attacks is akin to being in denial. Islam is the bedrock with which they justifiy and gain strength for their attacks. You are infidel....America is a nation of infidels according to Islam...we may be people of the book, but we do not accept Muhammend or his testimoney.
This is what motivates them to carry out their attacks whether it is 911 or a school of children in Beslan....the political issues while important are not what spurs them to these actions...it is RADICAL Islam that does this.
Posted by CPT at 03/01/2008 @ 11:59am
Posted by I'M NOBODY 03/01/2008 @ 11:47am | ignore this person
Oh yes, Farrakhan has....he is all about MASSIVE social programs to ensure social justice.
Hagee, has been critical of the Catholic Chruch....he has not called for the extremination of all Catholics.....he has not called Catholics inferior form of people nor has he made racists remarks about a segement of the US popluation....as Farrakhan has....there is a HUGE difference between the two....and MCCain has in fact distance himself with regrads to Haggees comments on the Catholic Chruch......Obama only reject a part of Farrakhan.....not Farrakhan as a whole. If anti-semitism was Farrakhan only vice, then that repudiation would work.....but he is not only anti-semitic...he is much more of a vile figure.
Posted by CPT at 03/01/2008 @ 12:10pm
CPT-You are either uniformed or lying about Hagee.Both are hate mongers who use religion to spew hate with,but neither is religious.Both are con artists who separate morons from their money.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 12:16pm
CPT-You have it backwards.Obama separated himself from Farrakhan,but McCain refused to separate himself from Hagee and was on stage with him..
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 12:18pm
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/action/ignore.mhtml?who=CPT
it's just not true. if Islam were ever to rise up, you would see a real world war. 1.6 BILLION
incidentally it was the gov't forces that killed most of the children at the school siege. the least you can do is get your facts right.
many of the conflicts are muslim vs muslim. take Bin Laden. his real enemy is the saudi ruling family. in Iraq both sides are muslims. in Indonesia, where most of the world's muslims live, it's muslim vs muslim.
when you get beyond looking at the world through you ideological prism, and study history and current events, then you might have chance to contribute something meaningful to the discussion.
the muslims in Chechnya are freedom fighters.
Posted by emile duBois at 03/01/2008 @ 12:21pm
We have more to worry about the Israeli agenda than the Nation of Islam. Obama is the real war monger. He said, "Our relationship with Israel is sacrosanct".
Posted by nursevic at 03/01/2008 @ 12:33pm
nursevic-You're a Hillary supporter and I'm wondering if you can show that Obama is a war monger,but Hillary isn't.Here is a hint.You'll need more than the one statement about Israel to prove that he is a war monger since that one statement means little and does not compare to Bill Clinton who said that he would die for Israel.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 12:39pm
nursevic-Do you,also,go by FrankGrits by chance?
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 12:44pm
Obama also said he will put troops in Afghanistan and he will bomb Pakistan. Nice way to dispose of our youth!
Posted by nursevic at 03/01/2008 @ 1:04pm
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/action/ignore.mhtml?who=nursevic
we already have troops in Afghanistan. and the bomb Pakistan was not nearly as simple as you make it. nuance is needed.
Posted by emile duBois at 03/01/2008 @ 1:11pm
nursevic-Responding to an attack does not make one a war monger.One more time.What evidence do you have that Obama,and not Hillary,is a war monger?This time don't respond with a lame sentence that has no meaning.If you're giving short answers in order to disguise who you really are then,please,mature,and be yourself.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 1:14pm
Hillary may be a war monger herself, but I hope my feisty girl wears Obama down long enough for Nader to make an impact. Obama makes McCain look like a boyscout selling lemonade by comparison. He must be stopped!
Posted by nursevic at 03/01/2008 @ 1:22pm
nursevic-In other words,you are a war monger who supports McCain.Thank you for finally making that clear.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 1:24pm
Posted by EMILE DUBOIS 03/01/2008 @ 12:21pm | ignore this person
Sorry Emile, but you cannot pretend to understand these things through your ideological prism and claim it fact.
I was referring to RADICAL Islam...not Islam as a whole....you guys do that well when ascribing radical Christians to the rest of the Christian world.
As a conservative i tend to be a little more discriminating. RADICAL Islamist use the Prophet actions to guide theirs....it is a plain and simple truth, look at it thru the Hadith and in the Suras of the Koran, Muhammends own compainions give us much of the history...now granted the RADICAL Muslims do use the more extreme examples of the Prophet...but they are there, they are not made up.
Perhaps when enlightened people like yourself view things as they are and not as you would like them to be, you will be able to come to grips with it.
Chechens? Freedom fighters? Which group? The Presdient of Chechneya has OPENLY denounced the RADICAL islamist groups liek those who killed over 300 at the Beslan school....180 of which were children under the age of 10....so which group are you defending here?????????
Thankfully the Russian Spetnaz put several bullets into Basayef, the mastermind of that wicked plot.
Posted by CPT at 03/01/2008 @ 1:26pm
Posted by I'M NOBODY 03/01/2008 @ 12:18pm | ignore this person
Sorry bud, but he did not, while he seperated himself from the comments, he did not seperated himself from the man. But look, so many have endorsed Obama it might take him a while to denounce them all.
Posted by CPT at 03/01/2008 @ 1:29pm
CPT-Get a grip on reality.Obama,unlike,McCain, was not on stage with the person when they endorsed him and your lying won't change that fact.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 1:32pm
Posted by I'M NOBODY 03/01/2008 @ 1:32pm | ignore this person
And HAGGEE is still NOT Farrakhan and no amount of denial be you will change that FACT!!!!
Posted by CPT at 03/01/2008 @ 1:33pm
Anybody is preferable to Obama; Hillary, Nader, McCain. This new corporate oil two faced war monger has despicably fooled millions. I hope his momentum bursts like a ballon after Tuesday.
Posted by nursevic at 03/01/2008 @ 1:37pm
Posted by CPT 03/01/2008 @ 1:26pm | ignore this person
it was the russians that killed the children in the siege, a fact that was widely reported.
Posted by emile duBois at 03/01/2008 @ 1:39pm
they may be radical, the maybe muslims, but it is not a religious war. you have not shown otherwise.
Posted by emile duBois at 03/01/2008 @ 1:39pm
CPT-The only difference between the two is that you agree with one and not the other,but they are the same.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 1:42pm
Posted by EMILE DUBOIS 03/01/2008 @ 1:39pm | ignore this person
It was also WIDELY reported that the Chechen terrorist radicals used the children as shields to hide behind when the Spetznaz assaulted the building.
They also rigged the gym to blow, where they had put all the hostages mostly children and detonated it when the assault came.
They did allow the babies who were still "nursing" to leave....all others were forced to stay.
Posted by CPT at 03/01/2008 @ 1:44pm
nursevic-Again,you refused to give facts and gave your usual one or two sentence response that has no facts and no meaning.You are a disgruntled Clinton supporter who is mad at Obama and you are now pouting and having a tantrum because Hillary won't get the nomination you feel that she is entitled to.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 1:45pm
Posted by EMILE DUBOIS 03/01/2008 @ 1:39pm | ignore this person
My dear Emile, its relgiously inspired to THEM......not us.
I am sure i dont have to tell you how radical Muslim terrorist are, they use Islam, reject modernity, relations with the West, want Sharia law strictly imposed in all Muslim lands, and long for the Caliphate to cleanse and reclaim the Muslim lands of history.
Posted by CPT at 03/01/2008 @ 1:48pm
Hagee is NO Farrakhan.....that is the HUGE difference.
Posted by CPT 02/29/2008 @ 5:30pm
thats right, Hagee has a massive following, even among those who post here.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2008 @ 1:49pm
I wonder how many more "disgruntled" Hillary supporters, or simply, how many more I-don't-buy-this-Obama-nonsense will go to Nader in November, when Obama would have spent his fortune fighting Hillary. McCain may very well win.
Posted by nursevic at 03/01/2008 @ 1:54pm
Posted by CRABWALK 03/01/2008 @ 1:49pm | ignore this person
yeah and those 400,000 who marched on the National Mall in support of a Farrakhan event...they are??????
Posted by CPT at 03/01/2008 @ 1:57pm
I read somewhere that Hagee had a "rapture "cruise. Whats up with the cruises?
Rapture Index 167
Net Change +1
Updated Feb 25, 2008
Rapture Index of 100 and Below: Slow prophetic activity
Rapture Index of 100 to 130: Moderate prophetic activity
Rapture Index of 130 to 160: Heavy prophetic activity
Rapture Index above 160: Fasten your seat belts
Yep, no question about it, prophecies are the bet way to live ones life. They are always clear, unimpeachable and impossible to misinterpret.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2008 @ 1:59pm
yeah and those 400,000 who marched on the National Mall in support of a Farrakhan event...they are??????
Posted by CPT 03/01/2008 @ 1:57pm
a drop in the bucket compared to the 16,000,000 "books" Hagee has sold.
The nutjob from the Nation of Islam has NEVER influenced a presidential campaign. And his "power" has waned quite a bit since that event.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2008 @ 2:02pm
Posted by CRABWALK 03/01/2008 @ 2:02pm | ignore this person
How many times has Haggee called for the extinction of a people?????? or nation state??????????
Posted by CPT at 03/01/2008 @ 2:05pm
What I never knew, is that scheduling a Gay Pride Parade can influence the weather.
But Hagee straightened me out.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2008 @ 2:09pm
Posted by CRABWALK 03/01/2008 @ 2:09pm | ignore this person
That is what freedom is all about...to able to think what you want to think.....without interference from the enlightend soothsayers
Posted by CPT at 03/01/2008 @ 2:11pm
CPT-You are desperately trying to claim that there is a difference between one hate monger and another and are failing.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 2:12pm
nursevic-Brain dead Clinton cult followers will do anything to screw the country and try and get McCain elected so that the Clintons can run again in 2012.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 2:14pm
nursevic-Don't forget that both Hillary and Nader were outsmarted by Bush making them dumber than Bush so why would anyone support someone dumber than Bush?
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 2:15pm
How many times has Haggee called for the extinction of a people?????? or nation state??????????
Posted by CPT 03/01/2008 @ 2:05pm
Well, the deaths of most Jews, Atheists, Muslims, Buddhists and non "real" Christians before, during or after The Rapture might qualify.
does Farakhan have a project whose sole goal is to produce a red calf in order to bring about the destruction of the Earth?
they are both total nutjobs!!! Like UBL or Muqtada al Sadr.
And, as I read it, Obama has repudiated Farakhan, whereas the straight talker is hedging his bets with Hagees Qaida, after having called them out a few years ago.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2008 @ 2:16pm
Posted by I'M NOBODY 03/01/2008 @ 2:12pm | ignore this person
To you...because you are moral relativist....you see no distinctions in any position but that which is filtered through the lens of ultra-leftist dogma.
I see distinctions.....big ones. Thank God for distinctions
Posted by CPT at 03/01/2008 @ 2:18pm
CPT-The fact that I'm not even close to being on the far left makes your response quite silly.I have morals,unlike you,and do not see a difference between one hate monger and another.You have yet to point out any distinctions.You have only shown that you are ignorant as to what Hagee has said.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 2:21pm
Posted by CRABWALK 03/01/2008 @ 2:16pm | ignore this person
Sorry that is a fairly big preversion of what the Rapture is all about...now i am Catholic........so i dont suscribe to the Rapture the way Haggee see it.
But that is not what is saying and i think you know that...but anything to put an Evangelical in his place...right?
Posted by CPT at 03/01/2008 @ 2:25pm
CPT-according to Hagee you are the anti christ and evil incarnate, since you're Catholic.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 2:27pm
Hasn't Hagee called for the bombing of Iran?
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2008 @ 2:31pm
Posted by I'M NOBODY 03/01/2008 @ 2:21pm | ignore this person
Well what you consider hateful is probaly in dispute...isnt it??
If you are against gay marriage...you are ahatemonger
If you are against affirmative action....you are a racist
Posted by CPT at 03/01/2008 @ 2:31pm
Posted by I'M NOBODY 03/01/2008 @ 2:27pm | ignore this person
Sticks and stones.......he didnt advocate violence against Catholics did he???
Posted by CPT at 03/01/2008 @ 2:32pm
i will Be back later
Posted by CPT at 03/01/2008 @ 2:33pm
Sorry that is a fairly big preversion of what the Rapture is all about
You interpret prophecy your way...
I'll continue to watch for the colored flying horseys
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2008 @ 2:35pm
CPT-What I call hateful is what pretty much most people call hateful.Saying that Catholics are evil incarnate and the anti christ sure sounds like hate to me and it is quite sad and quite telling that you don't view that as hate speech.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 2:37pm
i will Be back later
Posted by CPT 03/01/2008 @ 2:33pm
Macarthur or Christ quote?
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2008 @ 2:37pm
CPT-Jews should just say sticks and stones like you "Catholics" do.Yes,Hagee does advocate murdering Catholics,but is slicker about it than Farrakhan is.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 2:39pm
CPT-I find it hard to believe that any real Catholic would be on here defending Hagee.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 2:41pm
"What takes place after the Rapture?"
After The Rapture, God will begin executing judgments against unbelievers, during a period called the Tribulation. At the end of the Tribulation all nations will attack Israel, and Jesus Christ will physically return, leading the armies of heaven. At the Battle of Armeggedon they will destroy everyone who is not a believer. Then Satan will be bound, and Jesus will set up the Millennial Kingdom, headquartered in Jerusalem. Jesus and the saints will rule over the nations of the Earth for a thousand years. During this period there will be people born who are not loyal to Christ. However, it usually will not be obvious. Therefore, at the end of the thousand-year period, God will release Satan and let him tempt those who inhabit the Earth. A large group will take up arms against the Lord and be defeated. Then, Christ will judge all who have ever lived, giving rewards to some and punishment to others. Those who were "destroyed" will be cast into the Lake of Fire, i.e., Hell. After that, God will destroy heaven and Earth because they have been polluted by sin. He will create a new heaven and a new Earth, put those who were saved on the new Earth, and rule it forever.-http://www.godonthe.net/evidence/rapture.htm
So, what does this Christian have wrong about the whole Rapture/Tribulation prophecy/theory/fantasy?
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2008 @ 2:41pm
So, the Pope says ya'll fundy evangelicals are members of a false church.
One of your top leaders says Catholics are whores and anti-Christs.
Yep, Jesus has brought you The Truth.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2008 @ 2:44pm
LVLiberty-The KKK leaders rarely told their followers to actually commit an act of violence,but spent much of their time getting them worked up on hate so that they would commit acts of violence.Hitler pretty much did the same thing.One does not have to speak violence in order to promote violence.Hagee is a hate monger and violence is the goal of all hate mongers.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 2:45pm
Lvliberty-I did back up my statement and his quotes are everywhere for you to see,but you already know that he is a hate monger,but are excusing him.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 3:06pm
I guess calling a group The Great Whore, Anti-Christs and informing them that they have abandoned their religion is actually foreplay, not hateful.
this gentleman Bill Donohue seems pretty upset with your boy Hagee, he claims to know a little about Hagees anti-Catholic views.
"There are plenty of staunch evangelical leaders who are pro-Israel, but are not anti-Catholic. John Hagee is not one of them," Bill Donohue
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2008 @ 3:11pm
Yep, to quote CPT and House (kind of)
Hagee is all about puppies and cookies and love
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2008 @ 3:12pm
Appears to be an accurate summation to me and most theologians (except those from the liberal theology who reject Jesus as truly being the Christ).
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/01/2008 @ 3:12pm
No, No, you have been telling me I have it all wrong, but there it is: " At the Battle of Armeggedon they will destroy everyone who is not a believer....After that, God will destroy heaven and Earth because they have been polluted by sin.
So, you don't want theocracy, but a total destruction of non believers then Earth is cool?
gotta run too
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2008 @ 3:15pm
LvLiberty-Liberal Christians do not reject Jesus as truly being the Christ and that is just more nonsense you make up.You people need to stop listening to con artists like farrakhan,Falwell.Hagee,etc and learn to think.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 3:18pm
Con artists.
Best description yet.
Except for Joe Smith, he was the real deal. Oh, and that Jones fella.
Posted by crabwalk at 03/01/2008 @ 3:24pm
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/01/2008 @ 3:12pm
Funny that you say it like that LV but you don't look up the fact that Hagee says that Jesus WAS not the Messiah. He has a whole book about it.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/01/2008 @ 3:42pm
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/01/2008 @ 3:31pm
Lv you follow a lot of stereotypes. You assume that because SOME liberal theologians don't believe in Christ it means ALL liberal Christians don't. I know plenty of liberal Christians who still believe in Christ. Stop stereotyping people to try to support you views LV. You can't assume that because some people do it all people do it. Didn't you learn as a child not to stereotype people?
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/01/2008 @ 3:45pm
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/01/2008 @ 3:24pm
What about the man-made tenants within Christianity? The ones that don't come from the Bible. There are plenty spread throughout the religion.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/01/2008 @ 3:47pm
Obama, McCain, Hillary...yawn. We're debating subtle differences between three rulling class figureheads. Meanwhile, the planet is in peril...no matter who wins. Wake up Call [mickeyz.net]
Posted by coolobserver at 03/01/2008 @ 4:37pm
Ahh, I love watching McCain get into these types of predicaments. This will take away many of his independent voters. But if he "denounced and rejected" Hagee it will take away many uber-conservative voters. This is great.
Posted by ShamansBlues at 03/01/2008 @ 5:11pm
LvLiberty-Claiming that there is a different view of Jesus that is based on political belief excludes Jesus being anyones personal lord because people are being told what view to have rather than developing their own view through a personal relationship.Liberals,like everyone else,have views about Jesus that vary,but,as always,you need to lump everyone into neat categories so you can do your we good you evil BS.Your nonsense about Hagee's beliefs is just that.Nonsense.He,like you,is a hate monger who believes that you decide who is a real Christian and what everyones afterlife will be.You decide nothing.You don't even know what comes next let alone know how to have a good whatever comes next.Hagee has not simply expressed historic views about Catholics.He has spewed hate towards Catholics and has referred to them as evil and a cult,etc,but,as always,you try and whitewash his statements as you whitewash radical evangelical views on a regular basis.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/01/2008 @ 5:24pm
I would have thought that John McCain knew full-well what it means to be a member of the Republican party. This is the party that you join if you hate any particular ethnic group. And they certainly have 'come-out-of-the-woodwork' for poor John. So as a non-conservative he must learn to REJECT their support and hope that the intelligencia of the party carry him through. My personal opinion is that he ain't got a chance in h___. PS If the police arrest a mime do they tell him he has a right to be silent? Just wondering.
Posted by Lou Smith at 03/01/2008 @ 5:27pm
"I am hopeful that Catholics, Protestants and all people of faith who share my vision for the future of America will respond to our message of defending innocent life, traditional marriage, and compassion for the most vulnerable in our society."
Dear God, just what, pray tell, is John McCain's vision for the future of America....today?
A Master Flip Flopper is in the race this time. Too pathetic to be fun to watch.
Obama '08.
Posted by bobc at 03/01/2008 @ 6:28pm
"I am hopeful that Catholics, Protestants and all people of faith who share my vision for the future of America will respond to our message of defending innocent life, traditional marriage, and compassion for the most vulnerable in our society."
Dear God, just what, pray tell, is John McCain's vision for the future of America....today?
A Master Flip Flopper is in the race this time. Too pathetic to be fun to watch.
Obama '08.
Posted by bobc at 03/01/2008 @ 6:40pm
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/01/2008 @ 8:40pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8khCJTDD44
Well here is my response to that. Hagee advertising his new book that amongst many claims says that Christ did not come to earth to be the Messiah.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/02/2008 @ 02:12am
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/01/2008 @ 3:24pm
Why be dogmatic about it, indeed. For every dogmatic criticism you bring to bear against Catholics, you could bring similar arguments against practically every other Christian religious sect.
Perhaps for this discussion, the Cornerstone Church could be used as a good illustration.
Hagee writes, "One party is for a socialistic government where government controls every element of your life with a tax and spend philosophy that's breathtaking...The other party promises a strong national defense, to be pro-life, pro-Israel, and sustain the Bush Tax Cuts."
Most of these positions strike me as "based upon manmade doctrines not found in or supported by the Bible."
http://www.sacornerstone.com/cluster/Cluster_2008-02-24.pdf
"One of God's top priorities for the church is to be a bold and unapologetic voice in defense of Israel."
While I don't have any problems with taking a position in support of Israel based presumably on their position as the chosen people, I do take exception to a pastor claiming he has a bead on "God's top priorities".
http://www.sacornerstone.com/cluster/Cluster_2008-02-17.pdf
"This culture war is a battle between light and darkness; between truth and deception; between moral clarity and political correctness."
Beside being a crib from Neibuhr, it is remarkable that it also fails to understand one of the central themes of that work, "Democracy may be challenged from without by the forces of barbarism and the creed of cynicism. But it's internal peril lies in the conflict of various schools and classes of idealists who profess different ideals but exhibit a common conviction that their own ideals are perfect." (The Children of Light and The Children of Darkness, pg. 104).
Ironic that it both uses the metaphor and provides an exceptional illustration of the problems of "The Children of Light".
http://www.sacornerstone.com/cluster/Cluster_2008-01-27.pdf
And when we get past all the "Vote for the Bible" sermons and end times theology, we have a lot of talk about war and fighting and very little about messages such as these:
"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also...You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5:38-47)
I can't say I see much love or much of anything that can be called Christ's teachings in his weekly editorials. Further, I think his greater than $1 million dollar salary speaks volumes when Christ himself said, "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." (Matthew 6:24).
A little further on, Christ also provides some additional teaching that seems appropos:
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them..."Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' (Matthew 7:15-21)
Posted by srjenkins at 03/02/2008 @ 11:28am
LvLiberty-I have never stated that all conservative Christians are hate mongers.I have only mentioned a couple of televangelists and they are not all conservative Christians.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/02/2008 @ 12:16pm
LvLiberty-Not only have I never said that all conservative Christians are hate mongers,but I have great respect for conservative Christians,like my parents,who raised us to think for ourselves and told us to pick our own religion.My brother picked his wife's denomination,my one sister is an evangelical, and the other is Catholic and I am Spiritual,but not religious and they accept all our beliefs.I have nothing against conservative Christians.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/02/2008 @ 12:24pm
Posted by SRJENKINS 03/02/2008 @ 11:28am
you realize pastor larry is a cluster bomb engineer, don't you?
or so he says.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2008 @ 1:36pm
HEY MASK:
here's a freedom of speech question for you:
do you think pastor larry would censor some of his "statements" if we posted them on his church's website?
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2008 @ 1:37pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 03/02/2008 @ 1:36pm
Yes, I read that once. He also served in Vietnam, and I believe he was, at one time, a Evangelical Quaker pastor as well. While I generally don't agree with anything he says, I do find him interesting.
Posted by srjenkins at 03/02/2008 @ 1:49pm
I do find him interesting.
Posted by SRJENKINS 03/02/2008 @ 1:49pm
look unto the beast.................
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2008 @ 2:03pm
Hagee on Hurricane Katrina "All hurricanes are acts of God because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that." [NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06]
Hagee on African-Americans The San Antonio Express-News reported that Hagee was going to "meet with black religious leaders privately at an unspecified future date to discuss comments he made in his newsletter about a 'slave sale,' an East Side minister said Wednesday." The Express-News reported: "Hagee, pastor of the 16,000-member Cornerstone Church, last week had announced a 'slave sale' to raise funds for high school seniors in his church bulletin, 'The Cluster.' "The item was introduced with the sentence 'Slavery in America is returning to Cornerstone" and ended with "Make plans to come and go home with a slave." [San Antonio Express-News 3/7/96]
Hagee on Catholicism "Most readers will be shocked by the clear record of history linking Adolf Hitler and the Roman Catholic Church in a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews." "Adolf Hitler attended a Catholic school as a child and heard all the fiery anti-Semitic rantings from Chrysostom to Martin Luther. When Hitler became a global demonic monster, the Catholic Church and Pope Pius XII never, ever slightly criticized him. Pope Pius XII, called by historians 'Hitler's Pope,' joined Hitler in the infamous Concordat of Collaboration, which turned the youth of the [sic] Germany over to Nazism, and the churches became the stage background for the bloodthirsty cry, 'Pereat Judea'.... In all of his [Hitler's] years of absolute brutality, he was never denounced or even scolded by Pope Pius XII or any Catholic leader in the world. To those Christians who believe that Jewish hearts will be warmed by the sight of the cross, please be informed--to them it's an electric chair. (pp. 79-81)"[Jerusalem Countdown by John Hagee]
Hagee on Women "Do you know the difference between a woman with PMS and a snarling Doberman pinscher? The answer is lipstick. Do you know the difference between a terrorist and a woman with PMS? You can negotiate with a terrorist." [God's Profits: Faith, Fraud and the Republican Crusade for Values Voters, Sarah Posner]
"[T]he feminist movement today is throwing off authority in rebellion against God's pattern for the family." ["Bible Positions on Political Issues," John Hagee]
Hagee on LGBT Americans "The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing. I know that there are people who demur from that, but I believe that the Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings punishment sometimes before the day of judgment." [NPR Fresh Air, 9/18/06]
Hagee on Iran "The coming nuclear showdown with Iran is a certainty," Hagee wrote [in 2006] in the Pentecostal magazine Charisma. "Israel and America must confront Iran's nuclear ability and willingness to destroy Israel with nuclear weapons. For Israel to wait is to risk committing national suicide." [The Nation, 8/8/2006, http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060814/new_christian_zionism]
So, Hagee blames Katrina on the "sinners" of New Orleans, links the Catholic Church to Hilter and preaches that Catholic Church is a false religion that will bring about the Anti-Christ but he is not a hate monger? Speech like this is antethema to everything Christ represented. Could anyone imagine Christ saying to the Katrina victims "Oh well ye have brought it upon yourselves my children-go, without water/electricity/food/schools/shelter, and sin no more. Then the compassion and love of my followers will pour forth and bring you from these troubles"
Posted by BizarroRio at 03/02/2008 @ 2:23pm
Posted by BIZARRORIO 03/02/2008 @ 2:23pm
I could definitely see christ advocating the use of nuclear weapons. He was big into efficiency.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/02/2008 @ 3:10pm
Posted by CCCOMFO1 03/02/2008 @ 3:10pm | ignore this person
Indeed, it is the most humane form of genocide available.
He also believed that the invisible hand of the market will resolve ALL problems/
Posted by BizarroRio at 03/02/2008 @ 3:18pm
Posted by BIZARRORIO 03/02/2008 @ 3:18pm
Jesus was a worldly man. He will probably come back a great general, or a stock broker.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/02/2008 @ 3:26pm
Jesus was a worldly man. He will probably come back a great general, or a stock broker.
Posted by CCCOMFO1 03/02/2008 @ 3:26pm
no way!
spokesperson or foxnewsish pundit...........
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/02/2008 @ 3:32pm
Look, sane guys...LVLIB explained it back on (Posted by LVLIBERTY1 02/29/2008 @ 8:10pm)...
McCain NEEDS the Hard Right/Religious Righties.
We all KNOW how he REALLY feels about them, the way he called out Robertson and Falwell back in 2000. But he knows he'll need the Lunatic Lectors to get elected in the fall...so he'll take endorsements from Jimmy Swaggert to Jim Bakker, if that's what it take.
Posted by Mask at 03/02/2008 @ 4:54pm
Posted by MASK 03/02/2008 @ 4:54pm
Strange approach to democracy. Some of us in our less sane, undemocratic moments think most lefties should have psychiatric evaluation before being allowed to vote but we eventually see the light. These fine citizens that you slander are, in much the same way, part of the rich tapestry of American society that defines our diversity. I mean have you ever heard of a large European subset of religious nutters? I thought not. Interaction with that broad and unique American spectrum of opinion, religious and political, is supposed to be McCain's specialty, isn't it? So what's the problem?
I mean if being a looney barred one from participating in "public" life who then would be qualified to contribute to this forum?
Posted by harvey 79 at 03/02/2008 @ 9:17pm
Re: Will McCain ...
Well, who cares if McCain does anything, even love affair(s). However, it's serious if a running guy is a Muslim. Read this.
------------
Ohio Voter On 60 Minutes:... I Hear Obama Is a Muslim, doesn't know national anthem.
2008 election, 2008 Elections, Barack Obama 2008, Barack Obama Muslim Smear, obama 2008, Obama Muslim, Obama Muslim smear Ohio Voter On 60 Minutes: I Hear Obama Is a Muslim, doesn't know national anthem.
Posted by HelenDAO at 03/02/2008 @ 9:40pm
The extremist Moulitsas (spelling) of Daily Kos once mocked Hillary's demand to include Florida dem vote as the "40 state insult strategy". Now here comes the Obama's "200 million working Americans insult strategy" - no experience needed, just grab it! Read this.
-------------
Does Experience Matter in a President? David Von Drehle Time Feb. 28, 2008 A story is often told at times like this -- times when American voters are choosing among candidates richly seasoned with political experience and those who are less experienced but perhaps more exciting alternatives. Once upon a time, the torch was passed to a new generation of Americans, and a charismatic young President, gifted as a speechmaker but little tested as an executive, was finding his way through his first 100 days. On Day 85, he stumbled, and the result for John F. Kennedy was the disastrous Bay of Pigs. For scholars of the presidency, Kennedy's failure to scuttle or fix the ill-conceived invasion of Cuba is a classic case of the insufficiency of charisma alone. No quips, grins or flights of rhetoric would do. Kennedy needed on-the-job training, as he later admitted to a friend: "Presumably, I was going to learn these lessons sometime, and maybe better sooner than later." Unfortunately, when a President gets an education, we all pay the tuition. Barack Obama basks in comparisons to J.F.K., but this is one he'd rather avoid. In the run-up to what could be the decisive contests for the Democratic nomination, Obama's relatively light political résumé -- eight years as an Illinois legislator and three years in the U.S. Senate -- continues to be the focus of his rivals' attacks. Hillary Clinton advertises her seven years in the Senate and two terms as First Lady, saying "I am ready to lead on Day One." And the message has gotten through: by clear margins, voters rate her as the more experienced of the two candidates. The fact that this hasn't stopped Obama's momentum doesn't mean he's heard the last of it -- not with John McCain, who
Posted by HelenDAO at 03/02/2008 @ 10:03pm
Posted by HELENDAO 03/02/2008 @ 9:40pm
Does HELEN actually think she's convincing anybody with her "Obama is a Muslim" crap?
Seems anybody with half a brain in their heads (which seems to exclude her) would REVERSE the intention, and say "If Hillary has to rely on false 'charges' to win and basically LIES....eff da bi-ach. I'm voting for the 'Muslim'!"
Posted by Mask at 03/02/2008 @ 10:25pm
What the hell happened to separation of church and state?! Why do these bible thumpers get media attention, and why do they get tax exempt status when they are obviously in the political business?
Churches are tax exempt because of the right to worship, not to have a tax exempt pulpit to organize a voting base. This is complete crap. I don't think it's right with the southern baptist right wing movement, the catholic church, nor the black churches on the liberal side. It's complete crap.
If the government continues to allow this, Sundays will be nothing more than a day for politcal manuevering for the party that particular church represents. If people want to congregate for political reasons, more power to them, but not under a tax exempt status and further under a false premise of worship. If there is a God, I would think that would come very close to blasphemy....using the church to convince people to think that their position is God's position. It's the most phony, fake tabloid type thing going on in the U.S. today.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 03/02/2008 @ 10:31pm
Posted by MASK 03/02/2008 @ 10:25pm
Flat wrong Mask. it's not that whoever it is to go after whose ever it is religion. The problem is, intead of speaking out and straightforwardly about his religion, Mr. Obama would jump on everyone who talks about his religion? Islam as well as Chritianity are alright; bad Muslims and Christians are bad. Hiding something is also bad if you run for somrthing.
Posted by HelenDAO at 03/02/2008 @ 10:44pm
Posted by WOLFGANG1 03/02/2008 @ 10:31pm | ignore this person
Faith in America has been basterdized to include cash and politics. The Fed Govt. should pull tax exempt status for any religious group that enters into the political realm, including Hagee and Donahue's respective groups.
Posted by BizarroRio at 03/02/2008 @ 11:07pm
Hiding something is also bad if you run for somrthing.
Posted by HELENDAO 03/02/2008 @ 10:44pm | ignore this person
So how about those tax returns and the records from the Clinton Presidential Libary? Hiding something are we?
BTW-Spreading propoganda only hurts your candidate. No one really believes the bullshit you guys are spitting. Swift Boating a candidate from your own party is desperately pathetic and viciously obvious. I thought these tactics were supposed to belong to the Republicans-HRC and her followers should be ashamed of themselves.
Posted by BizarroRio at 03/02/2008 @ 11:15pm
Posted by BIZARRORIO 03/02/2008 @ 11:07pm | ignore this person
Should read "bastardized"
Posted by BizarroRio at 03/02/2008 @ 11:16pm
Posted by HARVEY 79 03/02/2008 @ 9:17pm |
Look, HARV, knock yourself out.
You and a TINY fraction of American Christianity want to call Catholicism a "Great Whore" and discuss how Israel can grind up Palestinians to use as fertilizer and we MUST support it or face "God's wrath"....fine with me.
I'm just telling you that McCain will USE you to get to the White House and then suddenly stop taking your calls as he tries to build a more centrist coalition for 2012.
Posted by Mask at 03/03/2008 @ 10:42am
Posted by MASK 03/03/2008 @ 10:42am
you used mccain and white house in the same sentence.
that's tabu......
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/03/2008 @ 11:00am
I'm just telling you that McCain will USE you to get to the White House and then suddenly stop taking your calls as he tries to build a more centrist coalition for 2012.
Posted by MASK 03/03/2008 @ 10:42am
Ha Ha, No Worries. I did indicate that I'm tolerant of loonies didn't I. You may be aware that I was a Romney fan, on the grounds that McCain seemed to me, after reading his whole life story, to be a bit of a maddie who may have a problem running a sandwich shop. Perhaps that's why McCain has not been returning my calls.
However considering the alternatives I don't have much trouble whoring myself, so to speak.
Posted by harvey 79 at 03/03/2008 @ 11:43am
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 03/03/2008 @ 11:00am
Anything's possible, FROSTY...Her Majesty could still be inaugurated on January 20th next year!
Posted by Mask at 03/03/2008 @ 12:35pm
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/03/2008 @ 12:00am
Wanna take bets on how long it is until Hagee is caught with a dead hooker or a live boy?
Your backing a hateful, vindictive prick.
It suits you so well.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 03/03/2008 @ 12:35pm
Posted by HARVEY 79 03/03/2008 @ 11:43am
Well, McCain isn't going to piss off the LVLIB Crowd by denouncing anybody short of Fred Phelps.
But they better not get the idea that James Dobson or "Diamond" Pat Robertson are going to be invited to any state dinners if Mac wins.
Posted by Mask at 03/03/2008 @ 12:38pm
I can't understand why some people have no problem forgiving Hagee for statements he made reagrding different groups but don't want to extend that same forgiveness to Farrakhan. I have watched him on television speak about the inclusion of everyone, including jews. Maybe if he had gone on a mainstream network an made his speeches, folks would know about it. I don't remember exact dates of his speeches. I do know there was no "hate" speech at the "million man march". That's okay, though. Obama did not seek Farrakhan's unsolicited endorsement. Obama also has no control over who his minister has relationships with especially when those relationships have fostered positive improvements in his community. People do sometimes change their ways or come to a new understanding. Malcolm X called white folks blue-eyed devils(to some black folks at that time, that statement was true)but eventually he came to see you can't paint all people with the same brush. He came to a new understanding. Is Farrakhan so scary that he can't get the same treatment as Hagee has gotten? I'm just saying.....
Posted by k330k at 03/03/2008 @ 12:41pm
Posted by DR DECIBELS 03/03/2008 @ 12:35pm
Hagee and LVLIB birds of a feather. Family "Cuculidae" (i.e. cuckoo)...species "Israel is more important than America".
Posted by Mask at 03/03/2008 @ 12:42pm
Posted by K330K 03/03/2008 @ 12:41pm
Odd, you attack those who issue apologia for Hagee...but then (as we saw last week when the Farrakhan flap emerged) try to issue apologia for Farrakhan.
How about this?...they're BOTH fringey wackadoodles.
Although Farrakhan does have a grasp of "esoteric math" (re: his "Million Man March" speech)...heheh
Posted by Mask at 03/03/2008 @ 12:44pm
"2. Ultimately Israel is more important than the US in God's plans..... But my first allegiance is to God, with country a very distant second."---Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/03/2008 @ 12:48pm
Another saver, LVLIB....for the next time you talk about how liberals "hate America". From a guy who puts a FOREIGN COUNTRY ahead of his own...that kind of attack will be taken for EXACTLY what it's worth!
Posted by Mask at 03/03/2008 @ 1:06pm
LvLiberty-Millions listened to Hitler,too,but I'm not so sure that that means that we should all listen to him.No one knows if God has any particular plans and no one knows if the modern state of Israel has any extra meaning for God or if God places any extra importance on that country.One cannot even argue that from a Biblical standpoint since the modern state of Israel did not come about in the Biblically prescribed manner.God is probably smart enough to know that countries have no meaning and that it's humans,in general,that are important and not country.God, quite possibly, believes that boundaries are a bad idea since those boundaries separate humans from one another.My guess is that God is more concerned about individuals and their actions than is concerned about country or religion.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/03/2008 @ 1:12pm
1. Being lumped in by you and libs with Hagee is a badge of honor, that I will humbly accept. Hagee is listened to and read by millions of Americans.
2. Ultimately Israel is more important than the US in God's plans. That doesn't mean I don't love my country. But my first allegiance is to God, with country a very distant second.
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/03/2008 @ 12:48pm
Thanks for revealing your true colors.
You can stick Hagee up your ass, where he belongs. I'm sure with a little grease he'll fit just fine.....
Why not MOVE to Isreal, then you can work on starting the End Times from Home Base. Freak.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 03/03/2008 @ 1:12pm
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/03/2008 @ 12:48pm
1. Being lumped in by you and libs with Hagee is a badge of honor, that I will humbly accept. Hagee is listened to and read by millions of Americans.
•••••• so is jerry springer.........
2. Ultimately Israel is more important than the US in God's plans. That doesn't mean I don't love my country. But my first allegiance is to God, with country a very distant second.
•••••• congratulations.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/03/2008 @ 1:25pm
2. Ultimately Israel is more important than the US in God's plans. That doesn't mean I don't love my country. But my first allegiance is to God, with country a very distant second.
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/03/2008 @ 12:48pm | ignore this person
Are you saying that a foreign countries interests, as long as those interests coincide with your interpretation of God's plan, are of higher importance than your own countries? If that is the case, you should have the intellectual honesty to completely remove yourself from your civic duties, and refrain from entering voting booths (a la the Amish). Or, you could immigrate to Isreal...your true loyalties seem to lie there.
Unbelievable...Hagee and like believers have the audacity to claim to understand God's plans and His chosen land supercedes loyalty to their own country.
Posted by BizarroRio at 03/03/2008 @ 1:26pm
Posted by BIZARRORIO 03/03/2008 @ 1:26pm
Add this to the list, too, BIZARR....LVLIB trust FOREIGNERS with our national security more than Americans...
"1. I trust Israeli intelligence more than our own and they disagree with the NIE"----Posted by LVLIBERTY1 02/26/2008 @ 6:40pm
Imagine what (in a more oblivious moment), LVLIB (or any fundamentalist) would say if some LIBERAL said
"VENEZUELA is more important than the US in the plan for world-wide socialism. That doesn't mean I don't love my country. But my first allegiance is to the poor and oppressed, with country a very distant second."? Or "I trust FRENCH Intelligence more than ours"?
Posted by Mask at 03/03/2008 @ 1:56pm
"1. I trust Israeli intelligence more than our own and they disagree with the NIE"----Posted by LVLIBERTY1 02/26/2008 @ 6:40pm
Posted by MASK 03/03/2008 @ 1:56pm | ignore this person
I responded to that post with disbelief, and more than a few links to instances of Isreali espionage against the US, as well. But, LVL trusts them more than he does us, so if he is a cluster bomb engineer (for the record and in the interest of intellectual honesty-FZ is the only source I have for this information) and a Christian Zionist who holds Isreal in higher regard than us...Am I to assume that LVL is willing to give defense secrets to Isreal if he feels it is within Gods plan?
Maybe I am pushing too far or overreacting, but that kind of bluster, from a man that calls all liberals part of the 'hate america' crowd, seems very dangerous to me...
Posted by BizarroRio at 03/03/2008 @ 2:40pm
LvLiberty-I was commenting on the modern state of Israel and not the word Israel.The modern state of Israel did not come about in the Biblically prescribed manner and that means that there is no reason to believe that even the god of Abraham would view it as important or part of his plan.The modern state of Israel is man made and you put down Catholics for believing in things that humans came up with.I don't recall the Bible mentioning more than one anti christ so the pope can't be the anti christ since there have been many of them.Of course,protestants did not get rid of the Catholic tree as Jesus said they should.They just cut of some branches and grafted other branches on.
Posted by i'm nobody at 03/03/2008 @ 2:40pm
Posted by BIZARRORIO 03/03/2008 @ 2:40pm
Well, LVLIB has turned religious and political hypocrisy into a true art form...
A "Christian" who believes in wholesale slaughter of civilian targets (nuking China in the 50s, "Dresden" for the "War on Terror")...
and now a 'real' patriot who attacks his political opponents for "hating America"...but who owes HIGHER allegiance to a foreign country than he does his own.
Posted by Mask at 03/03/2008 @ 2:44pm
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/03/2008 @ 2:30pm
go back to sword making...........
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/03/2008 @ 2:50pm
Maybe I am pushing too far or overreacting, but that kind of bluster, from a man that calls all liberals part of the 'hate america' crowd, seems very dangerous to me...
Posted by BIZARRORIO 03/03/2008 @ 2:40pm
he's also worked for the mossad..........
well that's what he said.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/03/2008 @ 2:51pm
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/03/2008 @ 2:30pm | ignore this person
Biblically speaking, Christ came to absolve sins. In doing so he absolved the covenant with Abraham, supplementing/replacing Himself for all provisions, including the "Holy Land" and Temple Atonement. Since the church is the continuation of Christ on earth, it would seem that the church would be the new benefactors of Abraham's covenant and summarily replace Israel as the "Holy Land".
For the record-Martin Luther was a wacko...
And, Thank you for your service...
Posted by BizarroRio at 03/03/2008 @ 3:05pm
he's also worked for the mossad..........
well that's what he said.
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 03/03/2008 @ 2:51pm | ignore this person
Explains alot...
Posted by BizarroRio at 03/03/2008 @ 3:12pm
Posted by MASK 03/03/2008 @ 2:44pm | ignore this person
WWJD? Nuke China and kill everyone in Fallujah, that's what he'd do...He would never say something crazy like:
"Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God"
Posted by BizarroRio at 03/03/2008 @ 3:16pm
"Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they will be called the children of God"
Posted by BIZARRORIO 03/03/2008 @ 3:16pm
Nawwww....sounds like pinko, leftist blather to the guy who said--
"3-5 nuclear weapons against China and a threat to Russia to keep in line or they would have been next would have given the world a much better opportunity for peace than we have seen as a result of not letting MacArthur achieve the victory that we should have."----Posted by LVLIBERTY1 01/10/2007 @ 4:32pm
BLOG | Posted 01/10/2007 @ 11:47am Comments for "Surge Homeward" by Katrina vanden Heuvel
and....
"Tell the military to take off their safety's, find some "Patton" style leaders; also, think Dresden; tell the president, his advisors, and the military staff to quit worrying about public opinion and just destroy every enemy-no prisoners."-----Posted by LVLIBERTY1 10/21/2007 @ 10:50am
BLOG | Posted 10/19/2007 @ 4:50pm Comments for "Moyers/Scahill Expose Blackwater"
Posted by Mask at 03/03/2008 @ 3:37pm
Posted by MASK 03/03/2008 @ 3:37pm | ignore this person
Gotta love hypocrisy. And do not forget that the Conservatives are the only ones that respect "God's word".
Posted by BizarroRio at 03/03/2008 @ 3:47pm
It took a while but Rome certainly experienced this after destroying Israel in the 1st century.
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/03/2008 @ 4:02pm | ignore this person
But wasn't Rome the seat of the Church? Without Rome Christianity would never have had a 1500 year foothold in the West, paving the way for the Reformation and your brand of Christianity. Why would God take a 13 centuries before his wrath would be wrought upon the Roman Empire? The Old Testament would refute the idea of God allowing centuries of prosperity then a slow decline before finishing them off with a great and powerful...uh, what ended the Eastern Roman/Byzantine Empire? Oh yeah, the Muslim Turks. The Lord works in mysterious ways...
"That said, I will acknowledge one caveat to that loyalty statement. Should the US ever turn against Israel, millions of Americans like myself would find ourselves in a difficult place of choosing what course to take."
And if Israel turns against us? Where would your loyalties lie then? Would you support your country against this hypothetical aggressor?
While were at it, by stating that it is America that would turn against Israel, and not the other way around, are you stating that the US should unequivocally follow Israel's soveriegn lead? What would constitute the US turning against Israel.
Posted by BizarroRio at 03/03/2008 @ 4:28pm
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/03/2008 @ 4:02pm
Never knew "spin" could come out of a literalist?....heheh.
So, you're loyal to the United States...right up to The Rapture?
But you still trust Israeli intelligence more than good, honest American intelligence, right? (or is that "Rapture"-centric as well?)
BTW curious on this-
"Should the US ever turn against Israel, millions of Americans like myself would find ourselves in a difficult place of choosing what course to take."
What "courses" would be involved? What options are you thinking of?
Posted by Mask at 03/03/2008 @ 4:29pm
And if Israel turns against us?----Posted by BIZARRORIO 03/03/2008 @ 4:28pm
Everything done by the duly elected Prime Minister and Knesset of Israel....
is in accordance with "God's plan".
If Israel turned against the US, we would have little recourse than to completely and utterly....surrender. And beg for merciful terms!
Posted by Mask at 03/03/2008 @ 4:31pm
Question: since you believe Martin Luther to be a wacko, are you a Catholic who denies the legitimacy of the Protestant Reformation?
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/03/2008 @ 4:27pm | ignore this person
No. I am a former theology student, raised in an Evangelical home, who is now an agnostic. Luthers rant against the Peasant Revolt is a good indicator of his wacko thoughts about the value of human life and what constitutes oppression.
Martin's Rant against the Peasant Revolt [tinyurl.com]
Posted by BizarroRio at 03/03/2008 @ 5:26pm
The Roman empire that destroyed Israel entered it's final collapse in 476 AD.
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/03/2008 @ 4:49pm | ignore this person
The Roman Empire and the Byzantine Empire are one and the same. The Western end of the empire did fall apart in 476 AD, to be followed by the Holy Roman Empire. The Byzantine Empire, what was left of the Roman Empire and under the same control, lasted until the 1400's, where it was defeated by the Ottoman Turks...
"Also, the only people Israel has ever turned against have been in a defensive posture against those who try and destroy it. "
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/03/2008 @ 4:49pm | ignore this person
We were once able to claim the same moral high ground, but you still did not answer the question of:
"While were at it, by stating that it is America that would turn against Israel, and not the other way around, are you stating that the US should unequivocally follow Israel's soveriegn lead? What would constitute the US turning against Israel."
Feel free to answer at your convenience.
Posted by BizarroRio at 03/03/2008 @ 5:35pm
What "courses" would be involved? What options are you thinking of?
Posted by MASK 03/03/2008 @ 4:29pm | ignore this person
You'll never get a real answer from the Christian Zionists, they cannot reconcile their love of Israel and their militaristic nationalism.
Posted by BizarroRio at 03/03/2008 @ 5:40pm
It is certainly the view of at least most Evangelical Christians that God will curse those who turn against Israel. It took a while but Rome certainly experienced this after destroying Israel in the 1st century.
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/03/2008 @ 4:02pm
The fall of Rome was based on exactly the problem the US is encountering now, which is an over abundance of greed and an over-stretching of imperialistic dreams, not some curse from God.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 03/03/2008 @ 5:46pm
It is little wonder that Mask and others have no understanding of my statements.
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/03/2008 @ 4:02pm | ignore this person
I understand completely...Since you reject the legitimacy of American interests that may be in conflict with your religious views on Israel, I only ask that you no longer participate in the political process. Your citizenship should reside in Israel, whose interests are penultimate.
If the US were to broker a deal between Israel and the Palestinians that would cede control of Jerusalem to say, the UN, would you begin working for the Mossad again?
Posted by BizarroRio at 03/03/2008 @ 5:48pm
Posted by LVLIBERTY1 03/03/2008 @ 7:52pm | ignore this person
First of all, I have and continue to thank you for your service.
In response to your post:
1. That still does not answer the question-another dodge.
2. Your vote seems compromised. You have stated that you will move to a neutral country in the, unlikely, event of war with Israel. I said the same thing to the leftwingnuts that told me they were moving to Canada if GWB were reelected.
3. I believe the idea of the Rapture is ludicrous, as do many Christians.
4. I did not realize that working for the intelligence agency of a foreign govt was serving God. Which Apostle taught this? I could not find it in the KJV or the NIV- Maybe the Gnostic Gospels?
Posted by BizarroRio at 03/03/2008 @ 10:37pm
4. I did not realize that working for the intelligence agency of a foreign govt was serving God. Which Apostle taught this? I could not find it in the KJV or the NIV- Maybe the Gnostic Gospels?
Posted by BIZARRORIO 03/03/2008 @ 10:37pm
You are wasting your time with Livberty. Some people want to believe in something so much that they will not notice the reality of life around them and what is really going on around them. In short, their wished for fantasy of reality is more real to them, then reality itself. I believe there is a term for this....it's called insanity.
Posted by Wolfgang1 at 03/04/2008 @ 08:24am