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RedditDETROIT -- From the "What Might Have Been..." file comes the "news" that John McCain actually won Michigan Republican presidential primary.
That's what the Michigan Republican Party declared moments after the polls closed Tuesday night.
A press release dispatched from the state GOP headquarters just minutes after the polls closed in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, congratulated McCain as the winner of the state's GOP primary.
Only later did embarrassed party staffers distribute a proper press release hailing the victory of former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney, the son of former Michigan Governor George Romney.
"We simply pushed the wrong button," explained state GOP spokesman Bill Nowling.
A better explanation might be that the Michigan Republican Party expected better of its primary voters.
But there is no way to avoid the fact that Michigan Republican voters, in backing Mitt Romney, resurrected the candidacy of a contender who loses -- badly -- to all the leading Democratic contenders in head-to-head polls.
While McCain actually beats Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama in most polls, and loses only narrowly to John Edwards, Romney finishes far behind all three Democrats in match-ups that anticipate fall pairings.
Remarkably, Romney runs no better than evangelical Republican Mike Huckabee against the Democrats.
A the most recent USA Today/Gallup poll had Huckabee losing by 6 points to Clinton and by 10 points to Obama.
USA Today/Gallup surveys have had Romney trailing Clinton by 6 points or more and Obama by at least 12 points.
McCain, in contrast, beats Clinton by 3 points and bests Obama by 5.
McCain loses only to Edwards -- in a 52-44 finish. Notably, Edwards beats Romney 59-37.
So perhaps it is not so strange that Michigan Republicans leaders entertained hopes of a McCain win. Unfortunately, wishing for a viable nominee won't make it so.
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Oh, PUH-LEA-ZEEEEEE! This is your conclusion from Land-Next-to-Frosty?
Posted by Happy at 01/16/2008 @ 11:53am
HAPPY, you think LVLIBERTY is alone among the Religious Right?
BLOG | Posted 11/02/2007 @ 2:30pm Calling the Question -- In the House -- on Impeaching Cheney by John Nichols
"2. On Romney, I clearly outlined to you why he is unacceptable to me as a Christian and it has nothing to do with "Northeastern liberal" Republicanism. As a Temple Mormon, he has taken a vow in support of Mormon Doctrine that the US government will one day collapse and the LDS will take over control of the US government and institute their theocratic rule. As I have also stated on numerous occasions, I am against any religion, including my own taking over the US government."---Posted by LVLIBERTY1 11/02/2007 @ 2:04pm
"Hope that makes it clear that for me, unless Romney disavows his "sacred" oath in the Temple, I cannot vote for Romney. I would do the same for any American whose faith has such a vow."---Posted by LVLIBERTY1 11/02/2007 @ 4:18pm
Posted by Mask at 01/16/2008 @ 12:02pm
I thought that Fred was supposed to come on like gangbusters and wipe out everyone.What happened?
Posted by i'm nobody at 01/16/2008 @ 12:13pm
Posted by I'M NOBODY 01/16/2008 @ 12:13pm
Thompson doing a bit better in SC, but can't last past Super Tuesday with continual 4ths and 5ths.
I think the idea was that Fred Thompson should PLAY the President in the next Tom Cruise or Bruce Willis (cue Don Francisco) "action thriller about international terrorism and one man's lone fight to save a city!!!"
Posted by Mask at 01/16/2008 @ 12:24pm
I thought that Fred was supposed to come on like gangbusters and wipe out everyone.What happened?
Posted by I'M NOBODY 01/16/2008 @ 12:13pm
He was busy napping.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 01/16/2008 @ 12:26pm
Hmmm I wonder how Bloomberg-Hagel would do, added to this mix ... {muah huah huahuahuaaaaaa %}
Posted by V at 01/16/2008 @ 12:50pm
McCain is the Republican party choke candidate - especially when the rest of the country gets to hear more about how he is more "bigot" than maverick. When there is a Democratic nominee, If McCain wins the Republican nomination, he will get buried - an appropriate fate for the old, establishment candidate.
Posted by srjenkins at 01/16/2008 @ 12:57pm
jomama-Fred went Hollywood and prefers that to DC.
Posted by i'm nobody at 01/16/2008 @ 1:08pm
Nation readers,
Here's a fine little piece by Jeffrey St Clair at CounterPunch that is appropriate to the subject.
Return of the Native
Great excerpt:
As for John McCain, he began his primary day in Michigan with a campaign stop at a funeral parlor. It was a presage of things to come. McCain, briefly reinflated out of New Hampshire, replaced Obama for a week as the press corps' dark horse candidate. He won Michigan in 2000, but fell decisively to Romney this time round. With good reason, too. The senator's message is grim: 100 years of war, unfettered free trade, belt-tightening and austerity for the poor and working people and tax breaks for the super-rich. And he is an unpleasant messenger, self-righteous, peevish and pedantic. He crackles with hubris when he wins and oozes self-pity when he loses. The former pilot has also proven to have a quick finger for the ejector seat button when he encounters the faintest signs of incoming flak. The rough-and-tumble South Carolina primary could once again prove his Waterloo or Khe Sanh, as the case may be.
~Enjoy!
Posted by b_kool_66 at 01/16/2008 @ 1:10pm
Bloomberg has been acting the primadonna lately. hagel? forget it. Bloomberg should have gone for the repub nomination as he towers over those candidates in reason, business acumen and success,charm, and money.
Posted by McQ at 01/16/2008 @ 1:11pm
Posted by JOMAMMA 01/16/2008 @ 1:09pm
If I were a betting man, I'd bet Rudy Giuliani is out. He has less chance than Edwards of pulling it out.
I also think the chances of Obama settling for VP are about as good as HRC settling for VP - which is to say it's close to nil. Too much ego and animosity to carry on as if it were a foregone conclusion.
Posted by srjenkins at 01/16/2008 @ 1:22pm
Posted by JOMAMMA 01/16/2008 @ 1:28pm
You are forgetting Obama is in his mid-forties. If he were not to win the nomination, it would be better to build on the name recognition, go back to the Senate, become a more entrenched party player and build a record - and have the option to disassociate himself with the Clintons if they fail to win the WH or can't manage the mess GWB is going to leave behind, when he decides to run again. This is more savvy play. The way you suggest, you live or die by the Clintons, and I doubt he will go for that.
Posted by srjenkins at 01/16/2008 @ 1:43pm
Posted by JOMAMMA 01/16/2008 @ 1:09pm
JOHN, if you're predicting Hillary will pick Obama as Veep....
I'm even LESS sure of your prognostication abilities.
No way. She can't be "over-shadowed" by her Veep (nor allow 4-8 years of "Geez, if only HE got to take over").
She'll pick a nice safe white guy governor from the South or Midwest.
Posted by Mask at 01/16/2008 @ 1:46pm
McCain, in contrast, beats Clinton by 3 points and bests Obama by 5.
I'd like to see those match up numbers in September, when voters have had a chance to see McCain as the "continuation of Bush/Cheney" on Iraq, Iran and and the pro-war agenda that is taking critical funds away from this country at a time when it needs them to ward off a recession.
This WAR/POOR ECONOMY link will sink any pro-war candidate as the economy and recession take center stage.
Posted by Metteyya at 01/16/2008 @ 1:53pm
Posted by METTEYYA 01/16/2008 @ 1:53pm
Don't discount McCain, METTE.
Unlike Bush and most neo-cons, as a real combat vet and former POW, he can speak authoritatively on military issues and with no baggage. Plus if it's not Obama, he can make the case that you and others make that Hillary voted for the war and supported it almost upto 2007...and paint her as a flip-flopper, while "atleast I've been consistant".
Plus, he's always had that "maverick streak" and though MUCH diminished since 2000, could probably still call in a few independents and maybe a few Democrats who don't want to see a "Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton" Dynasty.
Posted by Mask at 01/16/2008 @ 2:21pm
This article is SO BIASED! Romney has WON two states and came in a CLOSE SECOND in the other two. Huckabee and McCain are the BIG LOSERS each of them having lost in three states and only having won one! Romney has by far the most votes and the most delegates to date. Beyond that, Romney is the only one with real economic expertise. Romney will bring proven problem-solving skills, clear vision, and new fresh voices to Washington. Romney is the best hope for the future of our nation.
Posted by almanojodo at 01/16/2008 @ 2:43pm
Romney is the best hope for the future of our nation.
Posted by ALMANOJODO 01/16/2008 @ 2:43pm
Then we are well and truly fucked.
Romney is a pandering, soulless tool.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 01/16/2008 @ 3:01pm
Don't discount McCain, METTE.
Posted by MASK 01/16/2008 @ 2:21pm
He's not alone.....so do SRJ, he of "If McCain wins the Republican nomination, he will get buried"!
Rush went on a major attack today, of McCain, David Broder & the MSM in general for `dictating' who they want as the Repub Nominee. Like FRANKG, Rush's `job' is getting much tougher...Reality is often, not pleasant!
One thing about McCain, he absolutely deserves a Nov. shot to run for POTUS. With the right VP, GOP can go from competitive to formidable.
Similar to METT wrt Obama--who he thinks will be more progressive than he campaigns--I think McCain will govern more Conservatively than his recent anti-Bush track record.
Posted by Happy at 01/16/2008 @ 3:15pm
I think McCain will govern more Conservatively than his recent anti-Bush track record.
Posted by HAPPY 01/16/2008 @ 3:15pm
would...
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/16/2008 @ 3:21pm
McCain is superannuated.
Posted by mask2 at 01/16/2008 @ 3:29pm
Posted by MASK2 01/16/2008 @ 3:29pm
Looks like I have a fan....but he won't be a "Wrath of Khan" or "Aliens" type sequel...
more of a "Staying Alive" or "Airplane II" kind.
Posted by Mask at 01/16/2008 @ 3:35pm
Posted by HAPPY 01/16/2008 @ 3:15pm
There's a positive for McCain....Limbaugh hates him.
Gotta be a good sign!
Posted by Mask at 01/16/2008 @ 3:36pm
Matt Damon!
Posted by mattdamon at 01/16/2008 @ 3:38pm
Posted by HAPPY 01/16/2008 @ 3:15pm
All I know is that McCain has major liabilities and will have people out-Swift Boating the Swift Boaters he hired for his campaign. I can already see the attack ads and the media buys - featuring his support for the confederate flag in South Carolina (in non-Southern states and in Southern urban areas), quotes about gooks (in billboards in major Asian communities), video of his observations on Chelsea Clinton's looks (major cities), his singing about bombing Iran (probably everywhere), a parody of him walking through a market in Baghdad (everywhere), his support for immigration (for conservatives) and quotes about the religious right being agents of intolerance (for Evangelicals), and contrast the "straight-talk express" against every issue where the straight talk wasn't so straight.
Imagine what an advertising creative will come up with when he is paid to come up with ideas like these all day. McCain gives it to them on a silver platter.
Posted by srjenkins at 01/16/2008 @ 3:42pm
Mitt Romney can slam revolving doors.
Mitt Romney sleeps with a night light. Not because Mitt Romney is afraid of the dark, but the dark is afraid of Mitt Romney
Mitt Romney doesn't read books. He stares them down until he gets the information he wants.
Once a cobra bit Mitt Romney's leg. After five days of excruciating pain, the cobra died.
Mitt Romney is not hung like a horse... horses are hung like Mitt Romney
Giraffes were created when Mitt Romney uppercutted a horse.
Mitt Romney is 1/8th Cherokee. This has nothing to do with ancestry, the man ate a fucking Indian.
Mitt Romney is the only person on the planet that can kick you in the back of the face.
Posted by mattdamon at 01/16/2008 @ 3:58pm
I'm experiencing Mitt/Matt fatigue.
Posted by mask2 at 01/16/2008 @ 4:16pm
Posted by MATTDAMON 01/16/2008 @ 3:58pm
Old Chuck Norris list from Uncyclopedia.
Posted by Mask at 01/16/2008 @ 4:31pm
Posted by SRJENKINS 01/16/2008 @ 3:42pm
Don't forget about this. Precious stuff to any opponent, unless the opponent is a Bush clone. :)
Posted by jaded at 01/16/2008 @ 4:54pm
It appears that the Repubs are the terrorist enablers and funders -
Mark Deli Silijander (R) Mich was indicted today for activities related to a fundraising ring that has alleged ties to AQ and the Taliban. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080116/ap_on_go_co/ex_congressman_indicted )
He must hate America
Posted by skeletonman at 01/16/2008 @ 6:22pm
I believe you are correct...and who wants to increase the work load by 1000 fold, have half the country hate you, most of the world fear you and want to kill ypou believing they are doing God's work...and then take a massive pay cut.
Posted by JOMAMMA 01/16/2008 @ 1:11pm
I'd say Shrub, but he does about 1/1000th the work of the average adult working a full time job in the US.
Posted by skeletonman at 01/16/2008 @ 6:26pm
She'll pick a nice safe white guy governor from the South or Midwest.
Posted by MASK 01/16/2008 @ 1:46pm
e.g. Vilsack of Iowa
Posted by skeletonman at 01/16/2008 @ 6:27pm
I think she'll pick Evan Bayh (sp?).
Posted by USAPRIDE at 01/16/2008 @ 6:32pm
Posted by SKELETONMAN 01/16/2008 @ 6:27pm
And a poke at Obama, since she would win the state in the General Election that HE won in the Primaries.
Posted by Mask at 01/16/2008 @ 6:55pm
Posted by FRANKGRITS 01/16/2008 @ 8:22pm
FRANK and I agree for once. Not sure I'll bet she'll pick him...but Richardson would be a good sense choice.
Posted by Mask at 01/16/2008 @ 8:37pm
Richardson would be secretary of state.
Posted by USAPRIDE at 01/16/2008 @ 9:13pm
What kind of person calls another man's sons or daughters cowards?
Regardless of your views, beliefs or passions, this is out of line. Say anything you want about the candidate, but leave their families out of it.
For shame Frank.
Posted by USAPRIDE at 01/16/2008 @ 9:20pm
By that fucked up logic, why hasn't the Clinton daughter served? Her mom voted yes and is running for president.
Posted by USAPRIDE at 01/16/2008 @ 9:32pm
Frank, talking with you is like a dog chasing its own tail. I don't say that's a wrong thing to do. I'm just saying that maybe that dog should stop going around in circles and walk a straight line once in a while.
Posted by USAPRIDE at 01/16/2008 @ 9:50pm
Chelsea was just a child during the Clinton Presidency, besides she is also a woman. I don't think that it's a good idea to put a presidents daughter into harms way.
Frank, are you saying women can't or shouldn't serve? Why is it different for a president's son to serve and not a president's daughter?
Posted by FritztheCat at 01/16/2008 @ 9:59pm
That depends on your definition of invasion.
Kosavo.
Posted by USAPRIDE at 01/16/2008 @ 10:00pm
I'm sure Frank is a fine fellow. I have no doubt of this. I sense there is a chip on his shoulder that probably shouldn't as big as he allows it to be. However, I would never presume to judge his true character. I have faith in my fellow man.
Posted by USAPRIDE at 01/16/2008 @ 10:07pm
Where the hell is everybody tonight, watching American Idol? Maybe I have too many people on my ignore list. I'll have to release Mask again so I'll have somebody to talk to.
Posted by FRANKGRITS 01/16/2008 @ 9:59pm
hi frank.
hillary will make a great president,
if you're rupert murdoch et. al.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/16/2008 @ 10:11pm
Just as I suspected. You're a dumb fuck. First of all it's Kosovo and it was a NATO action to stop ethnic cleansing, not a unilateral invasion of a soverign nation.
Posted by FRANKGRITS 01/16/2008 @ 10:05pm
always quintuple check your own words when pointing out other's errors.
karma loves irony.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/16/2008 @ 10:12pm
Frank???
Posted by USAPRIDE at 01/16/2008 @ 10:22pm
Frank???
Posted by USAPRIDE at 01/16/2008 @ 10:27pm
I'll have to release Mask again so I'll have somebody to talk to.-----Posted by FRANKGRITS 01/16/2008 @ 9:59pm
Mocked him too much for being Chauvin to Her Nibs' Napoleon.
Posted by Mask at 01/16/2008 @ 10:29pm
Frank???
Posted by USAPRIDE at 01/16/2008 @ 10:46pm
Frank???
(Something contagious going around....heheheheh)
Posted by Happy at 01/16/2008 @ 10:58pm
Is it me happy? Should I go?
Posted by USAPRIDE at 01/16/2008 @ 11:04pm
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/action/ignore.mhtml?who=USAPRIDE
I think Frank is right. Romney injected his sons into the game, with his foot in his mouth of course. when he claimed his sons were fighting the war by campaigning for him, he was asking for it.
Posted by mask2 at 01/16/2008 @ 11:09pm
Should I go?
Posted by USAPRIDE 01/16/2008 @ 11:04pm
Absolutely...NO! What makes FRANKG, the "trust me, read her book, if blacks are smart" joke of The Nation, is We, the People! If there are no "we" to hear his falling timber, would FRANKG be funny?
Posted by Happy at 01/16/2008 @ 11:22pm
As a conservative, I think it is time we all move forward. Wherever that might take us, we need to let go of the resentment and try something different, so to speak.
Kind of reads like fluff, but maybe there's a bit of merit.
Posted by USAPRIDE at 01/16/2008 @ 11:37pm
uh, rio?
did you know that mitt romney owns:
Dollarama chain of dollar stores, based in Montreal, Canada and operating stores in the provinces of Eastern Canada were purchased by Bain Capital for $1.05 billion CAD.
everything they sell is madeinchina
In June 2005, Bain teamed up with Haier Group, China's largest appliance maker, and private equity firm Blackstone Group in an attempt to acquire Maytag for over $1 billion. The bid was dropped a month later.
china, again
On November 16, 2006, Clear Channel Communications agreed to be acquired by Bain Capital and Thomas Lee Partners for nearly $19 billion.
here comes big brother mitt
In June 2007 Bain Capital acquired Bavaria Yachtbau. The price is rumored to be about $1.5 billion
i'm sure yachts are just a hobby
Late on June 19, 2007, Bain Capital LLC, Carlyle Group and Clayton, Dubilier & Rice agreed to acquire Home Depot Supply for $10.3 billion, each firm buying a one-third stake in the division.
yes, that says "Carlyle Group"
On June 27, 2007, Bain signed an agreement with Guitar Center to purchase the music retailer for $1.9 billion, plus $200 million in debt. The buyout will be for $63 per share, a 26% premium on June 26's closing price. The deal was approved by shareholders on September 18th, 2007 and closed October 9th, 2007
squishing out every mom'n'pop music dealer in their path
On September 28, 2007, Bain and the Chinese networking company Huawei Technologies acquired 3Com for $2.2 billion in cash
hmmm, china
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bain_Capital
mitt romney doesn't give a toodly-doo about you, RIO.
look at his eyes.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2008 @ 12:05am
Posted by RIO BRAVO 01/17/2008 @ 12:19am
SQUISH THE TOWELHEADS!
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2008 @ 12:24am
China has problems coming down the road at them that we will never have.
Posted by JOMAMMA 01/17/2008 @ 12:24am
yeah, like trillions in soon to be worthless t-bills!
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2008 @ 12:25am
Posted by JOMAMMA 01/17/2008 @ 12:35am
but don't you sing the praises of socialist china?
seems like lots of businesses are still state owned.
lookie:
====== A-Z Index of China's State Enterprises ======
GOV.cn
Friday, October 21, 2005
Alcatel Shanghai Bell Co., Ltd.
Aluminum Corporation Of China Limited
Anshan Iron & Steel Group Corporation
Beijing General Research Institute of Mining & Metallurgy
Central Iron & Steel Research Institute
China Aerospace Science & Technology Corporation
China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation
China Architecture Design & Research Group
China Aviation Industry Corporation I
China Aviation Industry Corporation II
China Building Material Academy
China Changjiang National Shipping Corporation
China Datang Corporation
China Electronics Corporation
China Electronics Engineering Design Institute
China Energy Conservation Investment Corporation
China Exploration & Engineering Bureau
China FAW Group Corporation
China First Heavy Industries
China Foma (Group) Co., Ltd.
China Gaoxin Investment Group Corp.
China General Technology (Group) Holding
China Great Wall Computer Group Co.
China Haisum International Engineering Investment Corporation (Group)
China Harbour Engineering Company Group
China Huadian Group Corporation
China Power Investment Corporation
China Hualu Group Ltd.
China Huaneng Group
China Huanqiu Contracting & Engineering Corporation
China International Engineering Consulting Corporation
China International Engineering Consulting Corporation
China International Forestry Group Corporation
China International Travel Service
China International Water & Electric Corp.
China Light Industrial Corporation for Foreign Economic and Technical Co-operation
China Lucky Film Corporation
China Merchants Group
China Minmetals Corporation
China Mobile Communications Corporation
China National Arts & Crafts (Group) Corp.
China National Arts & CraftsImport & Export Corp.
China National Aviation Holding Company
China National Biotec Corporation
China National Building Material Group Corporation
China National Cereals, Oils and Foodstuffs Corp.
China National Chemical Construction Corporation
China National Chemical Engineering Group Corporation
China National Chemical Supply & Sales (Group) Corporation
China National Cotton Reserves Corporation
China National Erzhong Group Co.
China National Foreign Trade Transportation (Group) Corporation
China National Gold Group Corporation
China National Investment and Guaranty Co., Ltd.
China National Light Industrial Products Imp. & Exp. Corp.
China National Materials Industry Group
China National Medical Equipment & Supplies Import & Export Corporation
China National Nuclear Corporation
China National Offshore Oil Corporation
China National Packaing Corporation
China National Petroleum Corporation
China National Pharmaceutical Group Corporation
China National Postal and Telecommunications Appliances Corporation
China National Seed Group Corporation
China National Service Corporation for Chinese Personnel Working Abroad
China National Textiles Import and Export Corporation
China New Era Group Corporation
China Nonferrous Engineering and Research Institute
China Nonferrous Metal Mining & Construction (Group) Co., Ltd.
China North Industries Group Corporation
China Ocean Shipping (Group) Company
China Petroleum & Chemical Corporation
China Poly Group Corp.
China Power Engineering Consulting (Group) Corporation
China Putian Corporation
China Railway Construction Corporation
China Railway Signal & Communication Corp.
China Record Corporation
China Resources (Holdings) Co., Ltd.
China Road and Bridge Corporation
China Satellite Communications Corporation
China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation
China Shipping Group
China South Locomotive and Rolling Stock Industry (Group) Corporation
China Southern Airlines Company Limited
China Southern Power Grid Co., Ltd.
China State Construction Engineering Corporation
China State Shipbuilding Corporation
China Telecom Corporation Limited
China Textile Academy
China Three Gorges Project
China TieTong Telecommunications Corporation
China Travel Service Group
China TravelSky Holding Company
China WorldBest Group Co., Ltd.
DongFang Electric Corporation
Dongfeng Motor Corporation
FiberHome Technologies Group
General Research Institute for Nonferrous Metals
IRICO Group Corporation
Shanghai Baosteel Group Corporation
Shanghai Institute of Pharmaceutical Industry
Shanghai Ship and Shipping Research Institute
Shenyang Research Institute of Chemical Industry
Sinochem Corporation
Sino-coal International Engineering Design & Research Institute
Sinohydro Corporation
State Development & Investment Corp.
State Grid Corporation of China
Tianjin Cement Industry Design and Research Institute
Union Developing Group Of China
Xian Electric Manufacturing Corporation
Editor: Du Jing Source: Gov.cn
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2008 @ 12:50am
Posted by JOMAMMA 01/17/2008 @ 12:42am
i've lived very well stuffilogically speaking in the past.
but i've come to realize that stuff just doesn't mean much. i've asked you to define "better".
as a musician, my earnings fluctuate greatly. right now, things are sloooow, but honestly, i've never been happier.
seems like my son's gonna need braces soon. guess i'll take on a few more students.
we've got cool furniture. most of it i've found at yard sales. i've got a good eye and grew up with antique hunting parents.
as to my wife: she's currently studying biology, so we may end up living in tents or igloos one day. she's not really interested in stuff. she's interested in life.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2008 @ 01:04am
Think they might just know something about making a GOOD investment?
Posted by RIO BRAVO 01/17/2008 @ 12:46am
think they might just know something about cutting losses?
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2008 @ 01:05am
China is we were 100 years ago...discovering the joy of individual leadership and free enterprise spirit..is short, they celebrate capitalism and how it has lifted the lives of many millions that socialism and all its joy has not.
Posted by JOMAMMA 01/17/2008 @ 12:57am
so...that puts them at...1908...
1918...1928...plus one year equals 1929...so they got over two decades to enjoy their super profit capitalist la la land until they have a great depression and see the other sie of laiisez faire an have to rein it all in some...
their biggest consumer - us - is about to dry up, though. close to three decades of ever dropping real medium income here while consumer spending has increased as a result not of the average schmuk getting a bigger slice of the prosperity pie, but as a result of the gobs of irresponsibly lent and borrowed wealth that substituted for real income growth. because the credit lines for schmuk america are snapping at an alarming rate. when enough pop and people stop spending way more than they have, something really bad is going to happen to our economy and china is going to see the other side of the laissez faire prosperity coin...
oh well...
Posted by ibbleblibble at 01/17/2008 @ 07:30am
China is we were 100 years ago...discovering the joy of individual leadership and free enterprise spirit..is short, they celebrate capitalism and how it has lifted the lives of many millions that socialism and all its joy has not.
Posted by JOMAMMA 01/17/2008 @ 12:57am
a 100 years ago America was in its progressive era. read some history.
Posted by mask2 at 01/17/2008 @ 07:52am
That depends on your definition of invasion.
Kosavo.
Posted by USAPRIDE 01/16/2008 @ 10:00pm | ignore this person
you have heard of UN peacekeeping troops? that's what the American troops were and are there.
this is very different from Iraq. you owe it to yourself and us to be better informed.
Posted by mask2 at 01/17/2008 @ 07:54am
China is not a problem as it will become the largerst consumer in the near future and we will produce items for them to buy..if we do not panick. China has problems coming down the road at them that we will never have.
Posted by JOMAMMA 01/17/2008 @ 12:24am | ignore this person
with American manufacturing on its knees, exactly what will we produce for them to buy?
Posted by mask2 at 01/17/2008 @ 07:57am
Posted by JOMAMMA 01/16/2008 @ 10:06pm
...he ignore lists them...a sign of cowardice in the extreme with a recognition that he is unarmed.
One doesn't have to be a coward to not want to read people that post like they have the internet version of Tourette's syndrome (Annevilla), whose idea of social discourse is crapping in people's hats and name calling (Ponti), who seem to have a hard time understanding simple concepts (Brannigan), people that are so repetitive there is no need to read their posts (Metteyya), people that cut and past large chunks from somewhere else, particularly with some kind of delusions (Rese, hsuBfools) or people that habitually misrepresent what other people say (Mask).
Given that environment, I can understand being quick to use the ignore list.
Posted by srjenkins at 01/17/2008 @ 08:16am
Maasch, I happen to know that Lincoln Neb. has an excellent public library. here's one for you to try: "From Centennial to World War: American Society 1876-1917" by Walter T.K.Nugent
Posted by mask2 at 01/17/2008 @ 08:23am
Posted by JOMAMMA 01/17/2008 @ 12:57am
The irony of your support for China - land of more than 1/3 of the economy directly controlled by the government, coercive abortions, "entrepreneurs" suspected of organ harvesting, forced assimulation of Tibetians, intolerance of dissent, citizens need to get permission from the government to travel, countrywide Internet censorship, persecution of religious groups, etc.
Could it be that because your livelihood, once again, is in the mix that you'll find any justification not only to overlook China's problems that are in direct conflict with your political philosophy, but will go further and praise them because well, it's good for business?
Posted by srjenkins at 01/17/2008 @ 08:35am
or people that habitually misrepresent what other people say (Mask). ----Posted by SRJENKINS 01/17/2008 @ 08:16am
Gee, can't catch a break...re-post what people posted verbatim and they jump on me for "archiving all our old posts"...
logically show how what they post is illogical or contradictory (like all those Ron Paul supporters with "small" but "disposable" incomes) and I'm "misrepresenting what they say".
heheh
Posted by Mask at 01/17/2008 @ 08:58am
China's problems that are in direct conflict with your political philosophy, but will go further and praise them because well, it's good for business?
Posted by SRJENKINS 01/17/2008 @ 08:35am
plus, they might be listening! (i.e. reading).
hey JM, the chinese can't log in to blog at thenation.com.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2008 @ 09:18am
hey,
anybody remember this guy?
Seldom has an American President's visit left the region so underwhelmed, confirming Bush's huge unpopularity on the street and his sagging credibility among Arab leaders he counts as allies. Part of the problem was the Administration's increasingly mixed message, amplified by the intense media coverage of his trip. For example, in Dubai he gave what the White House billed as a landmark speech calling for "democratic freedom in the Middle East." But during his last stop in Sharm el-Sheikh Wednesday, he lauded President Hosni Mubarak as an experienced, valued strategic partner for regional peace and security and made no mention of Cairo's ongoing crackdown on opponents and critics -- and the continuing imprisonment of Mubarak's main opponent in the 2005 presidential election.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1704296,00.html?imw=Y
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2008 @ 09:55am
Sure they can..I did..from mainland China on a wireless, un-WEP encrypted network.
Posted by JOMAMMA 01/17/2008 @ 09:35am
yeah, i remember that. you did seem cautious.
now, what would happen if a chinese were to post a song like the one i wrote?
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2008 @ 09:58am
Posted by JOMAMMA 01/17/2008 @ 09:35am
could i, as a chinese poster say something equivalent to, say,
"stephen harper's policies amount to nothing more the last week's pig urine"?
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2008 @ 10:03am
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/17/2008 @ 10:03am | ignore this person
Just don't mention Tibet or the Dalia Lama.
Posted by FritztheCat at 01/17/2008 @ 10:07am
Just don't mention Tibet or the Dalia Lama.
Posted by FRITZTHECAT 01/17/2008 @ 10:07am
Big hitter, the Lama...but lousy tipper.
Posted by Mask at 01/17/2008 @ 10:09am
Posted by JOMAMMA 01/17/2008 @ 09:35am
i know lots of "fresh of the boat" chinese, because they are my neighbours, students, and friends.
good, honest folk. like people in decatur, copenhagen, or fallujah. just want to work, watch t.v.'n'eat, and make their kids strong and happy.
i can understand why you are happy working with these people.
just remember, what you are experiencing there is the "gringomundi".
and that the minor moral inconvenience in your heart of doing business in a totalitarian state has daily ramifications for ONE TOO MANY victims of the state's* "guidance".
people and places and realities you will never have to trod upon.
*and you scoff at the DMV.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2008 @ 10:18am
I have one for you...card catalog the name ADAM SMITH.
Posted by JOMAMMA 01/17/2008 @ 09:37am | ignore this person
that is exactly the kind of thinking that was superseded by progressivism.
Smith incidentally held labor higher than capital. perhaps you should actually read him.
Posted by mask2 at 01/17/2008 @ 10:21am
Yes, verbatim. Followed by expository prose that reads in a great deal more than the verbatim quote - adding in all kinds of extras and then proceeds to refute all the extra material that wasn't in there in the first place. And when you had nothing else to go on, you went for the ole amateur psychology move about ego that ranks right up there with "you hate America".
Mask, it's alright to say, "Hey, I misunderstood," or "That wasn't clear to me." But these moves to convince yourself your just quoting the person (when, in fact, you are doing a great deal more than that), inability to admit you might not understand something and so forth - leaves people like me wondering, "Why should I bother interacting with Mask, at all?"
Kind of sad really, since there was a time when your commentary, at least with me, was among the better ones.
I'll include the last post of the relevant thread to illustrate, but anyone can see for themselves by using the last link or by simply reading what you post - day in, day out. You need to move past this notion that you are merely quoting people, and try to engage people without playing these kinds of games. Hey, you might even try to stake out a substantive position yourself once in awhile.
I thought it was worth calling you out on this behavior. I expect better from you, and hopefully, it's just a short term flair up.
==
Posted by MASK 01/15/2008 @ 10:00pm
The whole discussion is based on this exchange:
You: Here's a wacky theory....More people agree with Ron Paul than Dennis Kucinich. And since both are opposed to the war in Iraq...it's not that, is it?
Me: Perhaps the answer is as simple as more people with disposable income to donate to a campaign like the idea of eliminating income taxes?
Yet, somehow after Maskification, you reduce it to: SRJ, the whole response thread between you and me, is based on a DEFENSE of Dennis Kucinich's inability to raise money.
How you get here, from the exchange, is beyond me. You asked why Ron Paul was making more money than Kucinich. I offered an explanation to why people might favor Ron Paul - not a terribly complicated one at that and one that didn't mention Dennis at all. Then, you manage to bring in some brain damaged nonsense about majority opinions, ego, and whatever other irrelevant points you cared to toss in. And then, you want to claim that I've fully surrendered a point I never contested in the first place.
I can't say I'm surprised. I see you do this kind of thing every day with one poster or another. But, the stupidity of this exchange sets a new low. Deeply disappointing.
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters/allcomments?pid=270356
Posted by srjenkins at 01/17/2008 @ 10:22am
Posted by JOMAMMA 01/17/2008 @ 09:34am
The problem is a number of you spend to much time in Libraries as a substitute for real time experience...book knowlege is great..but first hand is more accurate.
Reminds me of a CIA agent I knew once. Said he had expertise on Nicaragua because he was a mercenary on the ground. People on the ground, only know the ground they are on. That's why we have generals, who have commanded troops on the ground and are book smart.
Posted by srjenkins at 01/17/2008 @ 10:27am
The problem is a number of you spend to much time in Libraries as a substitute for real time experience...book knowlege is great..but first hand is more accurate.
Posted by JOMAMMA 01/17/2008 @ 09:34am | ignore this person
that applies especially to conditions in the 19th century, right? tell me again how all encompassing the knowledge gained by peddling trinkets is.
you are an anti-intellectual snob. fortunately the world has passed you by long ago. try not to infect your son with your know nothing-ism.
Posted by mask2 at 01/17/2008 @ 10:28am
and i think its great places like china can make tupperware and music stands and compact florescent bulbs and and and and and
spread the wealth, so to speak.
but why must WE, in collusion with their THEY, do everything so friggin' "cheap"?
are we so cheap that we want to save 26% on that kitter litter box even though the cheapness arises in the exploitation of fellow humans and the befouling of their environment?
why do they have to start in 1882? why can't we demand they start in at least 1972, for chrissake? why must we export our inflation onto their backs and into their lungs and rivers?
humans piss me off sometimes.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2008 @ 10:34am
Posted by SRJENKINS 01/17/2008 @ 10:27am | ignore this person
not an ideal example. Generals book smart?
when I was studying "military science" I did a report on the battle of Dien Bien Phu. I was not there. my report fell on deaf ears. and not just my report.
had Generals been a tad more literate, the Vietnam debacle might have been avoided.
reading "the Peloponnesian war" too could have been helpful.
peddling trinkets never came up.
Posted by mask2 at 01/17/2008 @ 10:35am
Posted by SRJENKINS 01/17/2008 @ 10:22am
Yes, and for those who would like to read the UN-EDITED version...go to it.
SRJ starts with his 'More people with disposable income who like Paul's no income tax plan'...i.e. hinting it's "the rich" who want to keep their ill-gotten loot.
Then switchs (after I point out that Paul's contributions are a LOT of SMALL donors) that it's 'folks with SMALL incomes'...
and then finally, SRJ agrees that more people like Paul's domestic agenda than Kucinich's but to "take the sting out of" admitting that a libertarian is more popular than a true "progressive"....adds "Dennis more dorky than Ron Paul" to paint it as a PERSONALITY and APPEARANCE thing...
rather than coming up short in the DEMOCRATIC choice of folks on who they want to support with their cash.
Posted by Mask at 01/17/2008 @ 11:05am
Posted by JOMAMMA 01/17/2008 @ 11:37am
squish the brownies. fuck china, let's exploit nigeria. they're CHEAPER!
i want my stuff CHEAP!
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2008 @ 11:45am
Posted by MASK 01/17/2008 @ 11:05am
SRJ starts with his 'More people with disposable income who like Paul's no income tax plan'...i.e. hinting it's "the rich" who want to keep their ill-gotten loot.
Thank you Mask for providing more examples of the very behavior I'm highlighting. I am not hinting anything about "the rich". I'm talking about the universe of people capable of contributing to a political campaign - as is evident from the so called, "switch". But rather than think back and go "Hey, I understood that wrong and rushed to an unwarranted conclusion," you prefer to believe it was a "switch".
Further, I never talk about Ron Paul's domestic agenda. You put quotes on things as if I actually posted them that I never said like "take the sting out of". And your whole analysis is even more ridiculous because I identify as left libertarian.
I'm doing you a favor. You're acting like an asshat. Take the clue, and do it less. Now, I'm putting you back on ignore, and when your done justifying by repeating the very things I'm talking about, sit back take a deep breath and make that change.
When I see people responding to all the positive contributions you are making, I'll know to take you off ignore. Until then, happy trails.
Posted by srjenkins at 01/17/2008 @ 12:03pm
Posted by SRJENKINS 01/17/2008 @ 12:03pm
Well, 1. (and obviously I'm doing this for the benefit of the less cowardly)...."I'm talking about the universe of people capable of contributing to a political campaign." Who are those people with the "small" but "disposable" incomes?
2. "I never talk about Ron Paul's domestic agenda"....as noted in that original thread, I mention that Paul and Kucinich have identical views on Iraq, the key FOREIGN POLICY agenda item...therefore no difference in the support that one over the other would receive on that score.
3. "And your whole analysis is even more ridiculous because I identify as left libertarian." Great....explain what that is and why it inspires a person to defend Kucinich over his lack of fund-raising?
and 4. "When I see people responding to all the positive contributions you are making"...in other words, when my politics fall more in line with yours, via the approval of those on the Left...you'll deign to be gracious enough to take me off Ignore?
Don't do me any favors.
Posted by Mask at 01/17/2008 @ 12:13pm
Adam Smith 1723-1790
Posted by mask2 at 01/17/2008 @ 12:15pm
What kind of person calls another man's sons or daughters cowards?
Regardless of your views, beliefs or passions, this is out of line. Say anything you want about the candidate, but leave their families out of it.
For shame Frank.
Posted by USAPRIDE 01/16/2008 @ 9:20pm
One who calls'em as he sees'em. I agree. They are leeches.
Posted by Dr Decibels at 01/17/2008 @ 12:19pm
HEY SRJ. thanks for the new vocab. i usually just make up my own words.
[americanasshat.com]
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2008 @ 12:23pm
Posted by JOMAMMA 01/17/2008 @ 12:14pm
no thanks.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2008 @ 12:25pm
Adam Smith, let's see BEFORE the industrial revolution, when most americans lived in rural areas. when gov't revenues came from tariffs rather than taxes.he';s not exactly the dernier cri of economics. you're reallyup to date, aren't you Maasch?
Posted by mask2 at 01/17/2008 @ 12:28pm
Posted by MASK2 01/17/2008 @ 12:28pm
How about Nash Equilibria?
Posted by Mask at 01/17/2008 @ 12:33pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Forbes_Nash
Posted by mask2 at 01/17/2008 @ 12:39pm
How about Nash Equilibria?
Posted by MASK 01/17/2008 @ 12:33pm | ignore this person
I love those old cars.
Posted by mask2 at 01/17/2008 @ 12:44pm
Posted by MASK2 01/17/2008 @ 12:44pm
That's pretty good. Mind you, you're still "Airplane II" to my original!
heheh
Posted by Mask at 01/17/2008 @ 12:55pm
new and improved. Mask 6.1
Posted by mask2 at 01/17/2008 @ 12:57pm
hey,
if you guys want to MASK DEBATE,
go to your rooms!
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2008 @ 1:10pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/17/2008 @ 1:10pm
Fine, FROSTY...let's have another pointless debate about how "You Americans buy all that cheap stuff from China, eh? Why don't you think ABOOT cutting back on your lifestyles and saving the planet?" and how JOMAMMA is doing business with Commies while bemoaning socialism?
That more relevant?
Posted by Mask at 01/17/2008 @ 1:19pm
slack tide around here.
Posted by mask2 at 01/17/2008 @ 1:19pm
Posted by MASK 01/17/2008 @ 1:19pm
Sorry, FZ...meant that more sarcastic, came off more snippy.
Posted by Mask at 01/17/2008 @ 1:20pm
Froz, I tossed you a bonbon on another thread.
Posted by mask2 at 01/17/2008 @ 1:21pm
Sorry, FZ...meant that more sarcastic, came off more snippy.
Posted by MASK 01/17/2008 @ 1:20pm
actually, maskdebate is a pun. self, maskiplication.
i thought it was funny, kinda like the bad dude with the sunglasses in "matrix".
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2008 @ 1:55pm
maybe he meant maskurbate
Posted by mask2 at 01/17/2008 @ 2:09pm
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 01/17/2008 @ 1:55pm
Okay....by the way-
"How do you get 100 Canadians out of the swimming pool?"
.
..
.
. ..
.
...
(spoiler space)
.
...
..
.
.
"You ask them to get out of the swimming pool."
Posted by Mask at 01/17/2008 @ 2:31pm
maybe he meant maskurbate
Posted by MASK2 01/17/2008 @ 2:09pm
That's your nick now too, BRANNI-Q.
LOL!
Posted by Mask at 01/17/2008 @ 2:32pm
"You ask them to get out of the swimming pool."
Posted by MASK 01/17/2008 @ 2:31pm
indeed. lol.
but wouldn't you rather join us in the pool. we have the best fun.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2008 @ 4:57pm
maybe he meant maskurbate
Posted by MASK2 01/17/2008 @ 2:09pm
masker of reality.
i saw the inframaskian activity and i thought "mask debate" was a stroke a genius.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2008 @ 5:04pm
Fine, FROSTY...let's have another pointless debate about how "You Americans buy all that cheap stuff from China, eh? Why don't you think ABOOT cutting back on your lifestyles and saving the planet?" and how JOMAMMA is doing business with Commies while bemoaning socialism?
That more relevant?
Posted by MR. SNIPPITY. 01/17/2008 @ 1:19pm
i would never accuse someone of being an electron hog here at the nation.
let the rabble babble! for i to accuse someone of tangentilizing the thread would be extradumbish.
but now you've hurt my feelings and i'm gonna cry. lol. actually, off to work.
BTW when i go on endlessly for nth time with jm about madeinchina, i use the pronoun "we" cause stuffpidity is pretty universal. i don't say AMERICA unless i'm talking about some particular foreign policy, and that generally only refers to the idiots at the top.
heck, i've even given heck to your KNAPSACK* selling buddy for his madeinprinceton attacks on humble people.
*and I go on and on...............
peace,
me.
Posted by frosty zoom at 01/17/2008 @ 5:12pm
So what do we learn by this? John Edwards is the most electible in the general. What is it with democrats and chosing candidates that can't win? It is almost like we want to lose the white house. So the question is: Do you want to have a historical election, or win the white house? You can't have both, not this year. It will be McCain or Romney for the GOP. Either way we know that the GOP are dirty campaigners, I don't think Clinton or O'bama can stand up to that. This doesn't even address the fact that the race between Clinton and O'bama is getting so nasty, the dems are lible to implode as a party because people are feeling disenfranchised which will cost either of these candidates votes in the general. If we want to win, Edwards needs to be the democratic candidate.
Posted by zillow at 01/17/2008 @ 6:20pm
Posted by ZILLOW 01/17/2008 @ 6:20pm | ignore this person
you make a good case, but it's far too early for me to decide. Incidentally I vote on super tuesday.
Posted by mask2 at 01/17/2008 @ 8:35pm