Another Debate, Another Good Night for Hillary Clinton

Thursday night's Democratic presidential debate at Howard University was a lovefest, not a slugfest. The candidates essentially agreed on the issues and frequently displayed a chumminess that suggested most of them would gladly join a ticket led by the eventual nominee. The good will was flowing so freely that, well into the discussion of racial justice, healthcare and education issues. New York Senator Hillary Clinton, D-New York, exclaimed, "It's hard to disagree with anything that has been said."

The candidates vied to impress with rhetorical flourishes rather than jabs.

Even if they had not been appearing on the campus of a historic black university, the eight contenders would all have expressed appropriate concern about the Supreme Court's ruling Thursday to ease restrictions against segregation in public education. But the fact that the debate took place at Howard brought out the best in the candidates, as they angrily denounced the courts decision to "roll back the clock" on civil rights.

Illinois Senator Barack Obama, the only black candidate on the stage, was especially eloquent in his denunciation of the current court's assault on the protections set in place by the 1954 Brown v. Board of Education ruling that barred state-sponsored school segregation Speaking of the courageous students, parents and civil rights lawyers who fought to bring the Brown v. Board of Education case to the high court more than half a century ago, he mused, "If it were not for them, I would not be standing here."

Yet it was not Obama's reference to the civil rights movement, nor former North Carolina Senator John Edwards' "this issue of poverty is the cause of my life" declaration that drew the evening's most passionate response.

Rather, it was a comment by Clinton to the reality of how deeply racial disparities still divide and damage the United States. During a discussion of responses to the AIDS crisis, which had hit young African-American women especially hard, the senator from New York said, "Let me just put this in perspective: If HIV-AIDS were the leading cause of death of white women between the ages of 25 and 34 there would be an outraged, outcry in this country."

Clinton had to struggle to finish the sentence, as the crowd's applause rose to deafening levels. It was a masterful moment; one that, fairly or unfairly, inspired comparisons with the best performances of his husband, Bill. And, while Clinton did not dominate this debate as she did the last one in New Hampshire, she again came off as the most polished of the candidates.

On the AIDs policy question in particular, Hillary Clinton communicated an understanding of the issue at hand that went far deeper than talking points. She seemed to "get it." And the crowd rewarded her with a genuine embrace.

No, Clinton's not any better on most issues than she was before this campaign got started. No, she's not as progressive as Edwards, Obama or most of the other candidates.

But she is scoring in the debates, and that appears to be helping to to maintain her frontrunner status.

Is that fair? Perhaps not. But it is the reality of the political moment -- a reality that the other candidates will have to deal with if they hope to displace Clinton.

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John Nichols' new book is THE GENIUS OF IMPEACHMENT: The Founders' Cure for Royalism. Rolling Stone's Tim Dickinson hails it as a "nervy, acerbic, passionately argued history-cum-polemic [that] combines a rich examination of the parliamentary roots and past use of the 'heroic medicine' that is impeachment with a call for Democratic leaders to 'reclaim and reuse the most vital tool handed to us by the founders for the defense of our most basic liberties.'"

Comments (77)

1. I am still amazed at how much good will Bill has with the African-American community and how this is rubbing off on Hillary.

   If the Jews or Mormons had a presidential candidate, I don't think they would split their vote based on the good will of an "outsider".

   This just shows how mature the African-American community has become in which it can support a white woman over one of their native sons!

   Posted by Metteyya at 06/29/2007 @ 12:02am

2. Wow, John, she "gets it" on one issue and you're sold?

   C'mon, let's have a little more knowledge of her lacking of getting it on every other issue infused into your analysis?

   She's clueless on practically every issue and her getting it on this one issue highlights that reality.

   Posted by neaguy at 06/29/2007 @ 12:06am

3. Neaguys' right, she delivers a line that someone on her team gave to her and now she "gets it"? Please.

   And furthermore, isn't the applause line "if men got pregnant abortion would be legal and there would be Federal funding for it!" now nullified by her remarks? Just saying.

   Posted by dualdiagnosis at 06/29/2007 @ 01:26am

4. Clinton was not all that good tonight and did not stand out. I believe Sen. Obama had the night. One thing about Hillary is that she seems to embrace the old fashioned idea of defining herself by her husband's career. She claims what he did as her experience rather than what she has done and what is her experience alone. You cannot use what someone else does as your experience. but, like the 50s woman who defined herself thru her husband, clinton is doing this and no one seems to see this.

   Posted by vwcat at 06/29/2007 @ 01:52am

5. I am still amazed at how much good will Bill has with the African-American community and how this is rubbing off on Hillary.

   I don't know if Bill's "goodwill" with African-Americans is rubbing-off on Hillary or not.

   I think, however, that whatever your opinion of Senator Clinton may be, few disagree with the fact that she "always comes prepared". And "always coming prepared" is a virtue that most thoughtful people admire, irregardless of race.

   In her first Senate campaign, this disciplined approach served her well in winning over even the most dubious voters in the reddest parts of New York state. As she now seeks the Presidency, "always coming prepared" may be the very thing that enables Senator Clinton to establish her own "goodwill", independent of her husband's.

   Posted by JoeCHI at 06/29/2007 @ 02:38am

6. "A good night for Hillary"? Unbelievable!

   She was only less boring and believable than Kusinich (Did I spell it right?)

   Helen Thomas has it right or at least more accurately about her: "Will the real Hillary Clinton stand up?"

   Posted by atomase at 06/29/2007 @ 02:39am

7. Well FRANKGRITS is going to be insufferable on this thread...heheh.

   Posted by Mask at 06/29/2007 @ 07:21am

8. Funny I just pulled this up as I heard on NPR Hillary's racist statement that "if AIDS were happening to 34-45 year old WHITE women there would be an outrage. Ah, the Queen of Guilt rants on! As far as I'm concerned, she can rent herself an African Green Monkey and disappear.

   Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 06/29/2007 @ 07:36am

9. Funny I just pulled this up as I heard on NPR Hillary's racist statement that "if AIDS were happening to 34-45 year old WHITE women there would be an outrage. Ah, the Queen of Guilt rants on! As far as I'm concerned, she can rent herself an African Green Monkey and disappear.

   Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 06/29/2007 @ 07:36am

10. Clinton was not all that good tonight and did not stand out.

    I disagree. She did a great job of prefacing her responses in such a way as to make herself appear to be on a higher level than the others. In a debate with that many people, all you gotta do is be memorable, and some of her responses will be among the handful of moments remembered from this debate.

    I believe Sen. Obama had the night.

    He did well, although he momentarily lost his "above the fray" demeanor when Biden told everyone he had been tested for AIDS. When Biden said that he almost fell over. The look he gave Biden was one of total disbelief and (I want to say) rage. That was a low blow, I think, from Biden, calculated to knock Obama off his stride and down a few notches; or perhaps Biden is just a fool who knows nothing of the fact that homophobia has one of its strongest footholds (statistically speaking) in the African-American community. It would have been very difficult for Obama to do poorly last night given the friendly confines of the venue.

    One thing about Hillary is that she seems to embrace the old fashioned idea of defining herself by her husband's career. She claims what he did as her experience rather than what she has done and what is her experience alone. You cannot use what someone else does as your experience. but, like the 50s woman who defined herself thru her husband, clinton is doing this and no one seems to see this.

    Perhaps we don't see it because it isn't true. We should go to the transcript to confirm this, but I would be willing to bet that she referenced her own experience and her own accomplishments far more often than her husband's.

    Posted by BlueSpark at 06/29/2007 @ 08:12am

11. Hillary's racist statement that "if AIDS were happening to 34-45 year old WHITE women...

    what is racist about it? Explain.

    Posted by BlueSpark at 06/29/2007 @ 08:13am

12. Well, aside from the fact that its not true, or at least extremely debatable, it is simply a remark geared to do nothing but create animosity between the races. Dems do that all the time: Its a control technique used on unwitting minorities. The now-old cliche is called "playing the race card." How else would the DEMS get any votes?

    I've referred to this before, but again keep in mind Howard Dean's comment after the last mid term elections, when he declared that his party needed to take care not to allow another "Michael Steele problem" meaning a black candidate who will encourage his people to think for themselves instead of listening from the confines of the liberal plantation. Hillary is an elitest & a racist, one of the "New Racists" who does nothing but play to the crowd.

    Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 06/29/2007 @ 08:45am

13. ""Let me just put this in perspective: If HIV-AIDS were the leading cause of death of white women between the ages of 25 and 34 there would be an outraged, outcry in this country."

    Did anyone mention personal behavior along with acquiring AIDS at all during these "debates" and the higher rates in black communitys?

    Always somebody else fault, and we are all vicitms horseshit, ...some of the best pandering to the black community in years.....and they will buy it lock, stock, and barrel,.. an embarassing display of blaming everyone but the person him/herself that might play a role...they "get it alright"...

    ....come on Frank...the little bell has rung, time for ball licking...

    Probably not..

    Posted by john maasch at 06/29/2007 @ 09:01am

14. What's interesting is the back-slapping Hillary is getting for...

    a hypothetical.

    Seems some people LIKE them now....heheh!

    Posted by Mask at 06/29/2007 @ 09:22am

15. Hey JOHN, you see these photos of Hillary on the site? Look how ANGRY she looks. Just what we need, eh, for the spirit of the country: a female Al Gore, doing whats best for us whether we need it or not.

    Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 06/29/2007 @ 09:25am

16. From Michele Malkin's website:

    "Well, isn't this rich? Howard Dean is scolding the Maryland state Democratic Party for being too..white:

    Saying Maryland Democratic leaders must do more to encourage black candidates so "we do not have another Michael Steele problem," Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean on Thursday criticized the state party's lack of diversity on its recent winning tickets.

    Speaking at a breakfast meeting in Washington, Dean expressed concern about Steele, Maryland's black, Republican lieutenant governor, who was defeated in his quest to fill a vacated Senate seat in Tuesday's election.

    "I just think we have got to do a better job in Maryland four years from now about diversity on the ticket," Dean said."

    The rest of you can make your own call on the context of Dean's statement.

    Posted by drhammer at 06/29/2007 @ 09:33am

17. Then again...there's this--

    By William Douglas MCCLATCHY WASHINGTON BUREAU Contra Costa Times

    WASHINGTON -- More than half of Americans say they wouldn't consider voting for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton for president if she becomes the Democratic nominee, according to a new national poll made available to McClatchy Newspapers and NBC News. The poll by Mason-Dixon Polling and Research found that 52 percent of Americans wouldn't consider voting for Clinton, D-N.Y. Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, a Republican, was second in the can't-stand-'em category, with 46 percent saying they wouldn't consider voting for him.

    Clinton has long been considered a politically polarizing figure who would be a tough sell to some voters, especially many men, but also Clinton-haters of both genders.

    Thursday's survey provides a snapshot of the challenges she faces, according to Larry Harris, a Mason-Dixon principal.

    "Hillary's carrying a lot of baggage," he said. "She's the only one that has a majority who say they can't vote for her."

    Clinton rang up high negatives across the board, with 60 percent of independents, 56 percent of men, 47 percent of women and 88 percent of Republicans saying they wouldn't consider voting for her.

    Romney struggled most with women: 50.9 percent said they wouldn't consider voting for him.

    "It's the flip-flop of Hillary," Harris said of Romney. "One could suppose it's the Mormon issue -- we didn't ask follow-up questions -- but his religion is an issue."

    On name recognition, Clinton also led the 2008 presidential pack in voter disapproval, with 42 percent saying they recognized her name and were unfavorable toward her, versus 39 percent favorable.

    That gave her a double-digit lead in that bad-news category over Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona and former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards, a Democrat. They each had 28 percent unfavorable recognition.

    Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani had the highest favorable recognition at 43 percent, with Clinton close behind at 39 percent. Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., was third at 36 percent, followed by McCain at 33 percent and Edwards at 32 percent.

    McCain rang up the highest favorable rating among independent voters with 39.4 percent, followed by Giuliani with 37.3 percent. Edwards scored well with independents, too, with 31.1 percent favorable; Obama had 28 percent favorable.

    The Mason-Dixon survey was conducted June 23-25 with 625 likely general-election voters. It has an error margin of plus or minus 4 percentage points.

    Posted by Mask at 06/29/2007 @ 09:47am

18. Yeah, I agree Drammer, Dean went way too far there in Maryland. We're so sensitive about caustic comments and criticism generally that we mustn't damage our chances of electoral success with unintended "in spite of ourselves" judgementalness, especially after "winning." Of course, this "winner take all" system of ours encourages demagoguery and amnesia of the fact the "ends DO NOT justify the means." Principled behavior/argument will win eventually, imho.

    Posted by lewwelge at 06/29/2007 @ 10:01am

19. Hillary's racist statement that "if AIDS were happening to 34-45 year old WHITE women...

    what is racist about it? Explain.

    Posted by BLUESPARK 06/29/2007 @ 08:13am | ignore this person

    Well, aside from the fact that its not true, or at least extremely debatable, it is simply a remark geared to do nothing but create animosity between the races. Dems do that all the time: Its a control technique used on unwitting minorities. The now-old cliche is called "playing the race card." How else would the DEMS get any votes?

    I think her claim was absolutely true, for the same reason that it is true that murders of black people generally do not make it onto the national news, despite their happening all the time in great numbers. Black-on-black violence, despite its being one of the major problems in our society, seldom makes it onto the evening news. If you are white, middle-class and pregnant, though, there is no way you won't be instantly famous upon being killed--unless you are ugly, of course. (It is also true that stories about ugly children who are killed are not considered newsworthy.) It just so happens that the media is run by and large by whites and the news is geared to a white audience. If AIDS were the chief cause of death of white women in their prime career and child-bearing years, it would affect the people in the media directly (either through newsrooms losing female employees to the disease or male employees losing their wives/partners) and it would be a big story.

    On your other "point," there are many reasons people vote for the Democrats other than "the race card": the Dems are less likely to allow corporate interests to rape the environment, the Dems are more likely to side with labor, the Dems are more likely to spend on social programs, the Dems will tax the rich more, the Dems are pro-choice, the Dems are more pro-gay-rights, the Dems don't contain as many members as the GOP who are anti-immigrant or theocratic, etc. You may not like any of these things, but half the country (at least) disagrees with you.

    Posted by BlueSpark at 06/29/2007 @ 10:20am

20. So, how many reports has it been from Nation journalists attesting to the fact that Clinton walks on water? All of them? Oh, what a surprise, the Nation gushing over Republican Clinton again, in lock-step with the MSM in preparing the way for her coronation. Kucinich or Gravel pointed out the the funding squandered in Iraq could be applied to addressing many of the issues discussed during the debate, but it seems to escape certain journalists attention where Clinton stands on the issue. The fact that we are being steamrolled with Clinton and all her corporate powerbrokers is enough of a disgrace without the so-called progressives jumping on the bandwagon. The only thing I can figure is that it is a social-economic comfort level ultimately that defines people's allegiances. In days to come, I wonder if any Nation readers will point out how Nation journalists covering electorial politics never sounded a peep on the issues in their pep rally coverage.

    Posted by Lil at 06/29/2007 @ 10:53am

21. Well, your right about half the country disagreeing with me. Since Conservatives (I hesitate to say Repubs these days)favor entreprenuership & true competition, do not view being rich as a crime, are not interested in turning the whole country into an unproductive National Wildife Refuge, don't like to steal businesses' profits or believe that business exists to "serve" people, favor private property,legal immigration coupled with assimilation, individualism over collectivism, and generally believe that man & not Govt is the best decision maker regarding his own actions. Yup, unfortunately about 46-50% don't believe this anymore. Sad. Hope the US survives the "wisdom" of the Boomers.

    Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 06/29/2007 @ 10:54am

22. '..if AIDS were happening to 34-45 year old WHITE women...'

    Ignorant remark since historically women have disproportionately suffered from neglect--from research to reproductive choice, regarding issues of health.

    Posted by Lil at 06/29/2007 @ 11:01am

23. Money talks! How shallow can HRC be? Even if Bush had quadrupled AIDS funding last week, not the soooooo distant month of May, she likley would still used the AIDS `race card'! Why, the funding increase wasn't her initiative!

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    Posted on Thu, May. 31, 2007

    Bush: Double AIDS funding

    By Michael A. Fletcher

    Washington Post

    WASHINGTON - President Bush's call yesterday for a doubling of the U.S. commitment to battling AIDS worldwide was met with broad support uncommon in Washington.

    International aid organizations, advocacy groups and members of Congress from both parties offered praise for the proposal - even if some argued that the increase was insufficient.

    Speaking yesterday in the Rose Garden, Bush called on Congress to increase funding for the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief to $30 billion over five years, beginning in October 2008.

    In his State of the Union address in 2003, the president promised $15 billion to fight AIDS over the five years, which end September 2008 - then the largest financial commitment by a nation to battling a disease.

    ....Bush's statement was immediately applauded by members of Congress, as well as by representatives of international aid organizations and other advocacy groups.......

    Posted by Happy at 06/29/2007 @ 11:03am

24. Posted by CHIP THORNTON 06/29/2007 @ 07:36am | ignore this person

    you have revealed yourself to be a right wing aparatchik, Chip. from this perspective your views on Hilary are to be filed as: same old, same old.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/29/2007 @ 11:16am

25. Well, your right about half the country disagreeing with me. Since Conservatives (I hesitate to say Repubs these days)favor entreprenuership & true competition, do not view being rich as a crime, are not interested in turning the whole country into an unproductive National Wildife Refuge, don't like to steal businesses' profits or believe that business exists to "serve" people, favor private property,legal immigration coupled with assimilation, individualism over collectivism, and generally believe that man & not Govt is the best decision maker regarding his own actions. Yup, unfortunately about 46-50% don't believe this anymore. Sad. Hope the US survives the "wisdom" of the Boomers.

    Posted by CHIP THORNTON 06/29/2007 @ 10:54am | ignore this person

    this is ALL nonsense.liberals are just as entrepreneurial as Tories, etc. you are delusional, and merely a mouth piece for these ridiculous slogans.get real.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/29/2007 @ 11:20am

26. Posted by LEWWELGE 06/29/2007 @ 10:01am

    I'm not sure we're tracking, Lew, because I wasn't trying to say that Dean went too far. (If you were being facetious, then it went over my head.) I posted the content from (yuck) Malkin's website because I didn't walk away with the same context or interpretation as Chip.

    As a Marylander, I watched Michael Steele's campaign with a great deal of interest. I heard nothing from him that was inspirational, and saw no indication that he was any less inclined to exploit racial difference than any other mainstream politician. (I voted for Kevin Zeese in that race.)

    And, just as a frame of reference, I am no fan of Hillary's.

    Posted by drhammer at 06/29/2007 @ 11:23am

27. Posted by CHIP THORNTON 06/29/2007 @ 10:54am | ignore this person

    let's just have a reality check here, to show where we're coming from.

    I have not had a wage job since '77. after that time I have been building my own business, a small video production company. I did so without any major capital, and no gov't help. I get no unemployment insurance, when there is no work, and my business is seasonal, I get nothing. During this time I have trained numerous apprentices. During this time I have also trained myself to be a historical scholar, in both musicology and dance history. I have received fellowships in both of those subjects, and have written articles and given lectures before college audiences.

    so Chip, who is the entrepreneur here? you or me?

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/29/2007 @ 11:42am

28. Jeez, JR is that the best you've got? More blanket statements laced with insults. Typical.

    One thing though, regarding your 11:42 post, good for you, really. I would think, then, that you would know better than to support a system, or person, that would make what you did almost impossible. Hillary already demonstrated her contempt for small businesses years ago with her comments during the Health Care issue.

    Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 06/29/2007 @ 12:00pm

29. Will someone please explain to me how the current administration supports small business?

    Posted by drhammer at 06/29/2007 @ 12:13pm

30. Jeez, Chip is that the best you've got? mindless slogans all. lying mindless slogans at that. those folks who invented the PC? conservatives? not on your life. Boomers, yes indeed. Gates, Jobs, conservatives? hahahaha, you are a joke Chip.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/29/2007 @ 12:21pm

31. Chip, the insult here is you insulting our intelligence with these absurd posts. I can only conclude that you post them to see your stuff in print. who here believes this kind of crap? Ok, maybe Maasch does, but he doesn't whine when he's savaged.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/29/2007 @ 12:40pm

32. Obama spoke to the heart of issues facing not only black americans but every day americans. Aids, lack health care, poor education, limited economic grown, katrina. These are all symptoms of oppression and he spoke to that.

    The other candidates gave talking points, be they good ones, to the symptoms and gave unrealistic policy ideas. But Barack Obama is a big picture candidate who knows that we have to see beyond giving false hope and to actually find the root of a problem to solve it together.

    alexandben.com [alexandben.com]

    Posted by AJSpearman at 06/29/2007 @ 12:46pm

33. But Barack Obama is a big picture candidate who knows that we have to see beyond giving false hope and to actually find the root of a problem to solve it together. ----Posted by AJSPEARMAN 06/29/2007 @ 12:46pm

    Curious, AJ, if you think THIS from Senator Obama is part of that "beyond giving false hope" idea?

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama laid out list of political shortcomings he sees in the Bush administration but said he opposes impeachment for either President George W. Bush or Vice President Dick Cheney.

    Obama said he would not back such a move, although he has been distressed by the "loose ethical standards, the secrecy and incompetence" of a "variety of characters" in the administration.

    CAMPAIGN 2008: Barack Obama

    "There's a way to bring an end to those practices, you know: vote the bums out," the presidential candidate said, without naming Bush or Cheney. "That's how our system is designed."

    The term for Bush and Cheney ends on Jan. 20, 2009. Bush cannot constitutionally run for a third term, and Cheney has said he will not run to succeed Bush.

    "I think you reserve impeachment for grave, grave breeches, and intentional breeches of the president's authority," he said.

    "I believe if we began impeachment proceedings we will be engulfed in more of the politics that has made Washington dysfunction," he added. "We would once again, rather than attending to the people's business, be engaged in a tit-for-tat, back-and-forth, non-stop circus."

    Posted by Mask at 06/29/2007 @ 1:01pm

34. Well, your right about half the country disagreeing with me. Since Conservatives (I hesitate to say Repubs these days)favor entreprenuership & true competition, do not view being rich as a crime, are not interested in turning the whole country into an unproductive National Wildife Refuge, don't like to steal businesses' profits or believe that business exists to "serve" people, favor private property,legal immigration coupled with assimilation, individualism over collectivism, and generally believe that man & not Govt is the best decision maker regarding his own actions. Yup, unfortunately about 46-50% don't believe this anymore. Sad. Hope the US survives the "wisdom" of the Boomers.

    So you take the point that it is not only "the race card" that gets people to vote for Dems--good. It's odd, though, I agree with just about everything you say "conservatives" believe in the above-quoted paragraph, and yet I will be voting for a Democrat in 2008, and would vote for Hillary over any of the GOP nominees. Perhaps your mental picture of what makes a person a conservative or liberal is flawed?

    Posted by BlueSpark at 06/29/2007 @ 1:03pm

35. Posted by HAPPY 06/29/2007 @ 11:03am

    Yeah, gotta agree with you on that, HAP - AIDS funding is one of the very very very few things on which I can compliment Bush. All the many, many monstrous stupidities to his "credit" kind of drown out the good accomplishments that he comes up with every 15 months or so....

    Posted by ILOVEPHYSICS at 06/29/2007 @ 2:57pm

36. Posted by CHIP THORNTON 06/29/2007 @ 08:45am

    Ah, that Slippery Chip...what a jokester. Boggles the mind that Ole Mr. Bumper Sticker wants to attack Clinton, calling her a racist. In the practice of psychology, I believe that's called transference.

    Posted by nathanhale at 06/29/2007 @ 3:10pm

37. Frei, despite your chagrin with all pres candidates, it will be a dem in the white house. congress too will be more dem than repub. the boy genius Rove has lead his party into the wilderness. look for Bush to be increasingly trashed by his own party, something I predicted in these pages long ago.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/29/2007 @ 3:43pm

38. If you've never read this, it's not bad [uncyclopedia.org].

    Posted by Mask at 06/29/2007 @ 3:51pm

39. Wealth is moving quickly to the top of the pyramid and this transfer from the many to the elite few was not soley the work of Republicans sacrficing our collective wealth and resources before the altar of dogmatic free market abstractions. These ideas of market fanaticism were also facilitated by the Clinton administration, which did the absolute minimum to assuage the real world consequences inflicted upon the working people. Former Secretary of Labor, Robert Reich, left after the first term because of the Clinton cowardice (or complicity to be more accurate). When considering the poor quality of the people who have actually served as president over the years, there are a number of good candidates on the Democratic side (Edwards, Obama, Gravel, Kucinich) but Clinton is not one of them.

    Conservative policies have dominated for the past several decades and we are now experiencing the kinds of conditions that existed prior to the Great Depression, when the rotten system crashed. Our corporations are less competitive on the global market and rely more on mergers and acquisitions than developing their own R&D programs, the domestic population after seeing wages decline and debt rise is feeling greater anxiety regarding their future, wealth is shifting, and due to our frightening trade deficits we are dangerously dependent upon the Japanese and Chinese for foreign funds to keep the blood flowing. And the new Supreme Court radicals who appear opposed to all forms of progessive reform for the public good, are just some of the obvious canaries in the coal mine. We are desperate for leaders of extraordinary vision and courage, not supplicants to power and wealth. Hillary is a bad joke.

    Posted by Oustbush at 06/29/2007 @ 4:17pm

40. Our corporations are less competitive on the global market

    as long as the dollar keeps tanking, our exports are doing great. of course our imports will keep getting more expensive.this in turn will lead to more borrowing. yes, the house is shaking, when will it tumble?

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/29/2007 @ 4:21pm

41. Our corporations are less competitive on the global market

    as long as the dollar keeps tanking, our exports are doing great. of course our imports will keep getting more expensive.this in turn will lead to more borrowing. yes, the house is shaking, when will it tumble?

    Posted by JOHANNESROLF 06/29/2007 @ 4:21pm | ignore this person

    Yes, as long as our exports are seen as being worth purchasing by more critical consumers in Europe and Asia. Of course, the other nations are dependent on American consumerism, despite the shakiness of the system. I hope the transition will go smooth. Europe and Asia must open up to more spending within their economies as it's too imbalanced to rely upon America with all these signs of sickness.

    Did you hear the recent report on the BBC detailing the UK and how despite the "strenght" of their economy, they have miserable productivity, and the most uneducated population among industrial nations? Shows how misleading the financial numbers can be once one peaks into the underlying structures.

    Posted by Oustbush at 06/29/2007 @ 4:31pm

42. Just got back JR, and I see you continue to respond to logical posts with invective, insults, ridiculous accusations and unwarranted horn blowing. You have a sticks-and-stones mentality which I find surprising in a supposedly intelligent guy. Too bad.

    Have a seething weekend

    Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 06/29/2007 @ 4:31pm

43. Johannesrolf,

    I have to get out of here, but have you read anything by Jack Beatty? I just finished a book about the American corporation called COLOSSUS-How the Corporation Changed America. Beatty gives fantastic historical context to his work and he's not anti-business but yet grounded in the humanism of our system. Have a nice weekend.

    Posted by Oustbush at 06/29/2007 @ 4:38pm

44. You've gotta pander to your core constituencies.

    Posted by mtspence05 at 06/29/2007 @ 4:45pm

45. Hey JOHN, you see these photos of Hillary on the site? Look how ANGRY she looks. Just what we need, eh, for the spirit of the country: a female Al Gore, doing whats best for us whether we need it or not.

    Posted by CHIP THORNTON

    When people insist on acting like spoiled children, you have no choice but to treat them as such.

    Posted by mtspence05 at 06/29/2007 @ 4:48pm

46. I'm still not voting for Hillary.

    But she's right on the whole HIV/AIDS issue. If it were white women of a certain age dropping dead from HIV/AIDS, you'd hear no end of it.

    The HIV epidemic has been getting progressively browner and more female over the years, not just in this country but all around the world. That's why no one is really paying attention to it in the media or anywhere else.

    Now you can get as mad about my saying this all you want Chip and Mask, and you can also throw the "personal responsiblity" card, but that doesn't take away from the fact that I'm right. As long as it's people who are closer to my complexion than they are to yours (and I'm assuming you're both white men, sorry if that's not the case), it's not going to get the same sort of notice. I don't care what Juan Williams said in the New York Times, racism is still here, and one of the places that it keeps showing up is in the healthcare system. (there are several studies on health care desparities that you can look up to prove that point.)

    And don't throw Bush's AIDS plan in my face, either. Take a look at where that money is going. It's not going to Philly, or New Jersey, or New York, or LA or San Francisco. It's going to Africa and other places overseas. While I believe that we should help these folks all that we can, charity begins at home. I'll believe that this administration gives a damn about domestic HIV/AIDS patients when it stops cutting the shit out of the Ryan White fund.

    Also, for those of you who don't think that who gets to select the next Supreme Court nominee is important, check out this year's Supreme Court term. Thanks to these folks, I'd hate to be an advocate for the poor, or a high school student with a sense of humor, or a school district trying not to end up resegregated or a person who wants to make sure that faith-based organizations aren't stomping on the separation of church and state....

    Posted by edwriter at 06/29/2007 @ 4:48pm

47. Rese, dammit, will you stop? You fill up these boards with your conspiracy theories and other things that I really wish you would post onto either your own blog or site, or somewhere where those of us who might want to read them can.

    Or if you're going to regale us with this stuff, could you at least keep it to the topic at hand?

    Posted by edwriter at 06/29/2007 @ 4:52pm

48. Obviously Bush will be trashed by his same party in the manner Bill Clinton was by his, so I don't think your 'prediction' is all that salient.

    you've got to be kidding with this. Clinton had good ratings the whole time of his presidency. the dems did not turn their back on Bill. you are off the reservation with that statement. as far as my predictions, you ain't seen nothing yet.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/29/2007 @ 5:02pm

49. I like Obama for the most part; however I was appalled by his yea vote on that incredibly Draconian bankruptcy law which the Dems helped pass last year. HRC is too DLC and corporate-tied for my tastes. Kucinich and Gravel are unnominatable (is that a word?). Edwards seems a little soft for a long, hard campaign. I am sick to death of progressive and liberal candidates who cannot counter-punch. Richardson? i don't know. BUT they are all a vast improvement of C Plus Augustus, aka the Current Ocupant.

    Posted by The Goods at 06/29/2007 @ 5:04pm

50. good points ed. it is gross to blame the victim.

    as far as Rese goes, stop railing, ignore, ignore, ignore. does anyone read that nutcase?

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/29/2007 @ 5:04pm

51. Seriously, after listening to the dems candidates, I don't believe a single one can win on ideas.

    they don't have to. the country is done with Bush and his enablers in congress. the dems have a lock.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/29/2007 @ 5:06pm

52. Ed, as for the supremes, the worm will again turn. god willing the center judges make it till '09. Scalia and Thomas are not immortal. when one of them goes, the court will again turn to the center. but yes, they are a sorry bunch now.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/29/2007 @ 5:08pm

53. why we didn't see Gore and Clinton in the same frame for half a year,

    this is just not true, though Gore could have made better use of Clinton, and I do think impeachment played a role in making the race close enough to be stolen in Florida.

    aside from Gore, dem politicians did not turn their back on Clinton and his policies. nothing like we are seeing now, and believe me it will get far worse for Bush.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/29/2007 @ 5:26pm

54. Goods, they're all just shadowboxing now. Richardson, by the way is toast, VP at best. my guess is the campaign won't seriously start until after labor day, with the fight starting after Xmas. take that you Xtians.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/29/2007 @ 5:33pm

55. I find your overconfidence surprising considering the time remaining.

    Posted by FREIHEIT 06/29/2007 @ 5:46pm | ignore this person

    the war will not change before election day. Bush's numbers will not rebound. all his policies have come up a cropper. the repub candidates have nothing to offer. the people want change. they have said so in the last election. I do not see that changing.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/29/2007 @ 5:53pm

56. Bush has not satisfied his base anymore than Pelosi has satisfied her base

    this is nonsense. Bush is a disaster. Pelosi is smart enough not to shoot a drowning man.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/29/2007 @ 5:55pm

57. Bushs base doesnt require satisfaction - in fact satisfaction tends to kill off their ranks.

    Posted by conshame at 06/29/2007 @ 5:58pm

58. Bush IS a Conservative Republican. FACT.

    Posted by conshame at 06/29/2007 @ 5:59pm

59. Bush IS a Conservative Republican. FACT.

    Posted by CONSHAME 06/29/2007 @ 5:59pm

    Bullshit!

    Economic Conservative ONLY! Rockerfeller (Big Spending) Republican! No spending Veto & Trillion-dollar prescription meds for seniors! No Child Left Behind! Compassionate Conserative, et. al..

    Don't you know anything about someone you guys HATE, for almost 7 years?!

    Posted by Happy at 06/29/2007 @ 6:36pm

60. Clarification wrt "Economic"....

    Even there, he toes the line only in regards to pro-growth tax policies!

    Posted by Happy at 06/29/2007 @ 6:37pm

61. .....racism is still here, and one of the places that it keeps showing up is in the healthcare system.....

    And don't throw Bush's AIDS plan in my face, either. Take a look at where that money is going.....It's going to Africa and other places overseas. While I believe that we should help these folks all that we can, charity begins at home.....

    .....a school district trying not to end up resegregated....

    Posted by EDWRITER 06/29/2007 @ 4:48pm

    Racism....ah, that `bad word'! Some degree of Racism will always be with us simply because we are biological beings! It's nature's way of social grouping and what creates distinct cultures! Frankly, I have no problem admitting that if two individuals are absolutely IDENTICAL in every measurable way (academic scores, previous experiences, etc.), I would hire someone that's culturally/socially closer to me...and the reality is, that would be someone of my race. As a Realist, this is my reality....if you, Jesse and Al like to point me out to the `flock' as a Racist, all I can say is, you are entitled to your opinion but it's me that have to work with and pay the person I hire! The real Racists are the ones pandering to them to keep them `locked up' in a mindset of dependency!

    Unequal healthcare: A black family was our neighbor and the man worked for a subsidiary of Coke. His son had cancer and was treated at the MD Anderson Cancer Center, tops in the world! You want to compare equality of healthcare, you need to compare apples to apples--since you don't understand what I mean, I mean black & white families with similar health plans going to the same doctors and med facilities. The fact a higher % of blacks are poor, have one or less income due to absent fathers, etc....are precisely the reason they get less healthcare....very different than what you try to intone!

    Schools! Simple.....Do you believe big city schools today lean toward integrated or segregated in student makeup? Do the average big city black student today have caring teachers of their own race or generally the lesser (certainly on experience) teachers each region produces while the better teachers, including black teachers, are out in the burbs?

    Reading an articulate black man's stunted views....merely confirms my sad conclusion that the bulk of the blacks in this country are lost....still looking to others as causes of their misfortunes! IMHO, the blacks in America have been poorly led and easily fooled! Despite growth economies that are the linchpin of Republicanism for the past 27 years, it's shocking that more blacks have not climbed up to the solidly middle class rung!

    Consider this Reality: I love Oriental food and go to their ethnic areas about once a week! In the `70s and `80s, Houston absorbed a shitload of non-English-speaking Vietnamese refugees. Today, that (60,0000~70,000) community is thriving! Vietnamese-American businesses today is on par with the Chinese-American community which has been in Houston forever! I've visited LA and observed similar.

    This post will draw much flies! So be it!

    Posted by Happy at 06/29/2007 @ 7:25pm

62. "As far as I'm concerned, she can rent herself an African Green Monkey and disappear."

    Posted by CHIP THORNTON 06/29/2007 @ 07:36am

    Probably will regret asking you to elaborate on this statement. But please do.

    (And what are the odds, you have one of those "Heritage, not Hate" bumperstickers)?

    Eric

    Posted by Malcontent at 06/29/2007 @ 8:16pm

63. " Despite growth economies that are the linchpin of Republicanism for the past 27 years, it's shocking that more blacks have not climbed up to the solidly middle class rung!"

    Posted by HAPPY 06/29/2007 @ 7:25pm

    Perhaps they are the folks we stop counting as unemployed, in your psuedo-government's psuedo statistics, when their benefits ran out.

    Perhaps they too, have watched their purchasing power slip, as inflation outruns their pay raises.

    Perhaps, you don't understand the concept that people who start out at a disadvantage, statistically, have a lower success rate later in life. (I don't know about you, but I was not born wealthy. But my parents where both the first college graduates in their respective families. Yet they made sure I could read before I started school and inspired my intellectual curiousity. I am betting, that regardless of you economic status, as a child, you parents did the same).

    What do you think the odds are, that a low wage earner, probably with two jobs, who can barely read themselves, did the same to their child? By the time you've left elementary school, if you are that far behind, nobody is going to help teach you. And if you were never inspired to learn, and live in an anti-intellectual enviroment, you'll not know enough to, until you are to old to.

    Now some of these folks will get it together, and their kids will do well...but the rest are stuck where they're at, til somebody gives a shit.

    You can claim (and I'd agree) that this is their parents job. But if they don't do it, you cannot blame the child.

    If you were like most children/adolescents you probably did something stupid. And your parents probably intervened, to keep you from "ruining your life".

    I suggest, instead of trashing the disadvantaged, you do one thing as I have done; Call your parents and thank them for giving a shit. (makes you feel good too. It's OK you can still be a big mean republican afterwards).

    Eric

    Posted by Malcontent at 06/29/2007 @ 8:31pm

64. Eric

    Posted by MALCONTENT 06/29/2007 @ 8:31pm

    Eric, may I assume you're black?

    In any culture, in our mutual estimations, the family is one of the, if not THE main, key! It explains the success of the Vietnamese refugees...overwhelmingly UNeducated......which you conveniently didn't acknowledge and instead, and very typically, moved right into bashing me for "trashing the disadvantaged"!

    I am old enough to remember, back to the 60s', that most black kids lived in `real' families. While I don't know for sure, I have no reason to think the blacks' out-of-wedlock birth rates are much different from the whites at that time. Then, what happened? Tearing down the institutional barriers via Civil Rights laws were the right and just things to do....but somewhere, somebody decided to `help' them directly with Aids to Families w/Dependent Children ("welfare"). What it created is a monster that no one seems to know how to deal with it--most certainly NOT the highly vocal & visible black `leadership'! Blacks in the know, Bill Cosby types, are considered Oreos! Well, shit, if Oreos are more successful and have better family success rates in rasing productive and competitive children, sure beats being Charcoals!

    The Liberals, the ones who f***ed up the black families, shouldn't be trusted, again, to `help' the blacks. That leaves the Realists/Conservatives....Back to the Future and Back to the Families....which unfortunately today, doesn't have the old glue of religion to help. And the best remedy is a steadily growing economy with diverse opportunities. Still, without credible black leaders, I am not optimistic about the `black condition' and their signature rap-heavy `culture' of today.

    Posted by Happy at 06/29/2007 @ 9:20pm

65. ".Back to the Future and Back to the Families....which unfortunately today, doesn't have the old glue of religion to help."

    Posted by HAPPY 06/29/2007 @ 9:20pm

    Ignoring the bulk of your post and skipping right to this part; Exactly how does any of that hyperbole address the problem of upward mobility, into the ever shrinking middle class, for the disadvantaged? (Sure, everything was perfect, back in the 50s when nobody even noticed, so nobody cared and you didn't have to hear about it).

    All the crap about the Vietnamese etc. missed the entire point. If they had help from an educated family then, by defintition, they were not disadvantaged.

    Not much of a fan of "black culture" myself. Then I'm not much of a fan of "average white" culture either.

    "And the best remedy is a steadily growing economy with diverse opportunities."

    Ah. Still using rovian economic math, huh? Where if the answer is a scary looking number, you just adjust the initial parameters, til it all looks purty.

    The whitehouse spin machine can post all the numbers they want. And you can regurgitate them here, if you wish. But, real purchasing power has gone down for most Americans.

    Eric

    Posted by Malcontent at 06/29/2007 @ 10:54pm

66. Johannerolf, the people want change every election. Haha, you announce it like some kind of revelation!

    no they don't. how many times has the incumbent been reelected?

    you are ignoring the biggest issue, the war. the repubs dragged us into this failed adventure, some dems were quite willing, nevertheless it is the repubs who will be punished for it. I stand by my prediction.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/29/2007 @ 10:54pm

67. Posted by HAPPY 06/29/2007 @ 9:20pm | ignore this person

    you are clueless. have you ever seen a black person?

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/29/2007 @ 10:56pm

68. Opps. I contradicted your "UN-educated" with my "educated" parent, without elaborating.

    I don't know alot about the average Vietnamese immigrants education. But, I would hazard a guess, that if they aquired the means to immigrate (The Pacific is a tad wider than the Rio Grande) and came with some entrepunerial skills, than they also, by defintition, weren't "UN-educated".

    Eric

    Posted by Malcontent at 06/29/2007 @ 11:00pm

69. real purchasing power has gone down for most Americans.

    Eric

    Posted by MALCONTENT 06/29/2007 @ 10:54pm

    You are too dogmatic w/your views and convinced that the bulky `middle' is both smaller and worse off.....never mind the explosion of recreational spendings my folks never partook........not to mention spendings on electronic gadgets, computers and cellular stuff. I grew up in a family w/one TV! Today, even my poorest tenant has at least 2, most, 3 or more. Spending priorities!

    I am where I am because I know how to save & today, invest. My father was career Air Force, big money back then!

    I got a good feel for your worthiness, I won't be wasting more time with you on any extensive postings!

    Posted by Happy at 06/29/2007 @ 11:03pm

70. Bush IS a Conservative Republican. FACT.

    Posted by CONSHAME 06/29/2007 @ 5:59pm

    Wrong..

    CONSHAME = IDIOT

    Now this is a fact...

    Bush a conservative is hillarious...

    Posted by john maasch at 06/29/2007 @ 11:15pm

71. " I grew up in a family w/one TV! Today, even my poorest tenant has at least 2, most, 3 or more."

    I paid over 500, for my first color tv. Now you can buy a bigger (Chinese made, American branded) one at wally world for $99. $39 DVD players. What an extravagance. Irrelevant point there.

    "I got a good feel for your worthiness"

    Now, you're the judge of my worthiness?!? Fascinating. (Musta been the cuss word. Yea, I gotta feel for your petiness and narrowmindedness too).

    Whatever. Comment if you wish. Or don't comment. I could give a shit.

    Either way, when you post something stupid, if I feel indulgent, I will comment. Your response or lack thereof, is irrelevant.

    Eric

    Posted by Malcontent at 06/29/2007 @ 11:17pm

72. Posted by RIO BRAVO 06/30/2007 @ 12:10am | ignore this person

    this is all bull crap. Slogans from the gilded age from a poster who continues to spout slogans which bear little relation to truth. His pissing on a college education suggests the lack of one in the poster.

    Posted by johannesrolf at 06/30/2007 @ 08:09am

73. Reply to John Nichol's comment that Hillary did well in the Democratic Snooze-Off at Howard U.

    Wow! Hillary did really well? I guess you would also say they all did well in this 'beauty contest' some call a debate. How boring and useless must these 'debates' have to become before we all throw up?

    We have the most criminally irresponsible administration in our lifetimes, our boys are dying daily in Iraq as we attract more and more young men [and women] to groups training them to harm the West, America's prestige has fallen to a new low, and you John of all people say Hillary did herself proud in spouting an idiotic rant -'if it were white...]. Please John, I had some respect for you - you've got it right on the impeachment issue - don't spoil it now by pandering to these spineless cowards on stage these day, OK??

    Posted by lilmurt at 06/30/2007 @ 2:08pm

74. ...have you ever seen a black person?

    Posted by JOHANNESROLF 06/29/2007 @ 10:56pm

    Attended fully integrated public middle and high schools! Have been a small-time landlord since 1980 and better than 2/3 of my tenants, have been blacks! Houston RE is cheap, most whites own their own homes! I'll wager, I have dealt w/`real' blacks, outside of any work environment, more than anyone here....unless you work in social services of some kind....even then, it's a entirely different relationship than what a landlord goes through. At my `peak', owned over a dozen residential rentals!

    Posted by Happy at 06/30/2007 @ 4:24pm

75. Thanks DRHammer for the clarification about Dean's comment(s) in Maryland. I misunderstood your post(s).

    As a supporter of progressivism and positive policy changes which are, obviously to me, few and far between since the social revolutions which were the "New Deal" and the Civil Rights and Peace movements, I enjoy reading and contributing here.

    And Rese, while I do use my scroll down keys on much of your offerings, I refuse to ignore you and instead consider you THE hardest working contributer in this blogosphere.

    Posted by lewwelge at 06/30/2007 @ 11:37pm

76. Only something very bizaar can derail her now.

    Like a general election.

    Posted by BlueSpark at 07/02/2007 @ 07:50am

77. Well, at least you're sticking to the topic, Rese. That's a small victory.

    As for you Happy, I don't know quite what to say and, to be frank, I don't feel like having the discussion. I'm at a point in my life where I'm tired of trying to show white men, especially those who vote Republican, that the rosy picture they want to paint of the overall existence of people of color doesn't exist and never has.

    I say that because for every kid gets to go to MD Anderson for treatment, there's a kid that dies because he can't get his infected tooth removed due to lack of insurance.

    But, like I said, Rese is sticking to the topic at hand, so that's a small victory. By the way, having covered the HIV/AIDS epidemic for most of my 15 years as a reporter, I've read most of the stuff that you've stuck here, dude.

    Oh, and Frankgrits, "bizarre" is the proper spelling....and I'm still not voting for Hillary. I'd love to be able to vote for the first female president, but she's not the chick for the job. Too tied to the DLC and too willing to help George Bush pass some pretty bad laws (I'm thinking the Patriot Act) for me to give her my vote.

    Plus, I'm still pissed off at her husband for the Telecommunications Act of 1996.

    Posted by edwriter at 07/02/2007 @ 5:54pm