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RedditOn substantive questions of foreign policy, one of Barack Obama's most effective -- and perhaps only -- methods of distinguishing himself from Hillary Clinton has been touting his opposition to the invasion of Iraq. Though Obama's opposition was expressed in a twenty minute speech on the floor of the Illinois state legislature, the credibility his anti-war stand has granted him is well-deserved, and it should remain a central issue in the primaries.
Given the way Obama has voted on Iraq-related bills since his arrival to Congress, however, any attempt by the junior senator to cast himself as a genuine anti-war candidate is disingenous. Greg Sargent and Eric Kleefeld have compiled a side-by-side study of Obama and Hillary's votes on Iraq-related bills and what they found is startling.
Of 69 votes related to Iraq, Obama differed with Hillary on only one: He voted for the confirmation of Gen. George Casey and she voted against it. In no way does Sargent and Kleefeld's study negate the importance of Obama's oppositon to invading Iraq, but it does add some nuance to an otherwise simplistic debate.
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THIS might add some nuance too...
By MIKE GLOVER Associated Press Writer
SIOUX CITY, Iowa (AP) - If President Bush vetoes an Iraq war spending bill as promised, Congress quickly will provide the money without the withdrawal timeline the White House objects to because no lawmaker ``wants to play chicken with our troops,'' Sen. Barack Obama said Sunday.
``My expectation is that we will continue to try to ratchet up the pressure on the president to change course,'' the Democratic presidential candidate said in an interview with The Associated Press. ``I don't think that we will see a majority of the Senate vote to cut off funding at this stage.'' (my bolds)
Posted by Mask at 04/02/2007 @ 4:21pm
Imagine that. Politics as usual. When are we going to get some real change? When will Americans wake up and stop voting for these corporate-financed fakes?
Posted by douginslc at 04/02/2007 @ 4:29pm
What are the Dems supposed to do, allow themselves to be framed as the party willing to cut funding to the troops out in the field, in the fight? No, just allow Jr to continue wasting lives and our tax dollars in Iraq; give the fool all the rope he wants. And continue digging,uncovering, investigating the deeds perpetrated while a Repub controlled Congress turned a blind eye to the malfeasance. Let it simmer at a very low boil until the election season comes.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/02/2007 @ 4:35pm
yup, they're war supporters on paper, but obama can out-debate hillary any day of the week....and he's had far more courage to oppose it than she has.
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 4:38pm
and to think that there are still a lot of people who believe that media is overwhelmingly liberal---even in light of the fact that a full 70% of americans believed that saddam was involved with 9.11 as of september 2003. and even in light of the fact that people like 'godaddy' believe that the consitution is a "quaint" document (and proceeded to use what he termed a 'gonzalesism'). even in light of the fact that mitt romney and rudy guiliani would consider 'indefinite detention' during their terms, should either one become elected in '08.
yup, that's a liberal media, when americans become increasingly left in the dark on so many vital issues. i've made up my mind, americans are DUMB (and fat).
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 4:42pm
Posted by DARLADOON 04/02/2007 @ 4:42pm
So when's the big move to Vancouver, DD?
Posted by Mask at 04/02/2007 @ 4:46pm
Hillary is the Dem nominee and I really don't know why no one here really knows this, the rest of the country has known this for years..and Obama, while a surprise event on the scene is just that and Hillary is dispatching him as we type...this is over and has been for a long time..
The real question should be asked is, what next? The endless investigations are to be expected from this group and it may be their undoing , and I hope they investigate everything..I want to see nothing but Waxman and his nose hairs on TV for the next 1 and 1/2 years...and I want to hear more .."I am gonna take those profits and give them to..." speeches so we can really see the difference between the partys running for office...real debate...
so far we have a plan to ,
1. Cut off funding for the troops
2. Raise taxes for health care
2. Spend more on pork than ever.
3. Increase the tax rates on every one paying taxes.
4. Keep an open border
5. ERA???
Not a word, after all the bitching about Repubs and deficits, not one word about cutting or triming anything but other peoples paycheck sizes and confiscation of revenues..is this because the deficit IS actually disappearing because the economy IS doing well for the majority?
What are your friends in Congress going to do if Iran takes American hostages? Sue Iran? Are you going to invade Pakistan? What if after Bush leaves ofice and the dems yank the troops home the Middle East gets WORSE and some Muslim supporter reads the Dems message as a "lets get out of here" and decides it is a perfect time to have another 9/11? Gonna hold hearings and investigations?
For every one on this site the only thing in the world is Iraq and end the war at all costs regardless of anything else thats is happening..just Iraq and come home...then what? All you hear is crickets..and the jingling of the tax man and the increase of the govt in all our lives...maybe if we get real lucky and the dems win it all in 08 then we too, can send in 65% of our income on some sort of govt or another...and most of you will do exactly that like good robots who say we need it...and the rest of us send ourselves into a different direction... we do not have a shortage of funds for govt, we have a shortage of accountants who can keep track of it... we have no managers..just autocrats and unionsed workers robots just plodding along...voting dem of course..and spending. It is going to get worse.
Elections are coming faster than you think and the clowns in the fire truck currently in Washington are going to have to run on SOMETHING...their "majority" is extremely thin and I don't see alot of support for Congress these days...maybe Bushfooled again should cut and paste the lastest polls on Congress ratings or who the general public is leaning to in the Presidential ring so far...(Hint, it aint who you think it is..)
Posted by john maasch at 04/02/2007 @ 5:13pm
Have you no shame you old, lying coward?
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/02/2007 @ 5:15pm
Don't you have some child laborers in Bangladesh to exploit?
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/02/2007 @ 5:18pm
Posted by FREIHEIT 04/02/2007 @ 5:16pm
uhhhh . . . if you want a good example of blanket generalizations look no farther than Maasch's #1-5 above.
Posted by Hman23 at 04/02/2007 @ 5:32pm
Hman,
1-4 came out of the recent house bill.You want generalizations and simpleton thought process out of a hand book..how about these gems..
"Don't you have some child laborers in Bangladesh to exploit?"
or
"There never was a liberal media, just an honest one"
Thses guys represent your team...
but take my 1-5 ..
20% increase over what was asked for in a military funding bill...and we get Spinach, horses...et al...from the party thats going to change spending and fix the deficit?
1.Are they not cutting off funds for the troops to be in Iraq?
2.No tax increase for health care? Is it free? They can steal ALL the rich money and in will not keep the program alive...high school math shows all the speniding with built in increase will not work without higher taxes ...
3.Are they NOT going to let the tax cuts expire? If they do ALL RATES RETURN TO HIGHER LEVEL? NO?
4.Any new border policys coming to regulate the border as much as they want to regulate Walmart or Exxon profits? Is the border NOT remaining open?
5.Did the DEMs NOT annouce a reintroduction of the ERA last week?
Show me where these are NOT true.
Posted by john maasch at 04/02/2007 @ 5:49pm
Maasch - you speak in hyperbole.
1. There has been no vote to cut off funds.
2. There has been no increase in taxes.
2. This Congress is not spending more "on pork than EVER." Please show me otherwise.
3. The potential repeal of the Bush tax cuts is not for "every one paying taxes."
4. Most Democrats do not support an open border policy.
5. Agreed but what do you have against equal rights for women?
Posted by Hman23 at 04/02/2007 @ 6:07pm
Posted by ZERO
That's why Al Jazeera English isn't allowed on the tube over here.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/02/2007 @ 6:07pm
4. Most Democrats do not support an open border policy.
Business interests in the US sure as hell are for an open border. People like the old, lying coward want all that cheap labor so their commissions won't decrease.
Posted by mtspence05 at 04/02/2007 @ 6:09pm
1. Cut off funding for the troops
2. Raise taxes for health care
2. Spend more on pork than ever.
3. Increase the tax rates on every one paying taxes.
4. Keep an open border
none of these are based on facts. they are far, far right wing talking points.
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 6:26pm
it is becoming more and more evident that maasch is either:
1) a fraud;
or
2) an idiot
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 6:27pm
Madame MT,
You do not vote and do nothing but criticize with no real input or output other than slanders and name calling. You are not worthy to be taken seriously and for me you have no value or contribution to make..if you are employed..then thank you for your taxes, if you have been in the military..then thank you for your service.
You know nothing of me, about me and you are someome I would never let in my circle of trust on any condition. I have many people I care about who have views and ideas 180 degress from mine that I respect and would sacrifice for them...but man, you make careing for your fellow man a challenge...so, you win....
other than that for me you are nothing...using up my oil and wasting my air. You have fallen into the worst category one can fall into with me or any human..apathy. It simple doesn't matter to me what you think of me, life, America,politics, be it mine or anyone elses, or your opinions on me, my character, or anything else..I have determined you are one of those guys who gives critical advice to both sides while incapable of actually doing anything. Your responces regarding international trade are juvenile at best and embarassing for you at the very least..I have been reading you for a while now and have concluded there is nothing there..and I have looked at your writing, but you are sour.
Hopefully you are not a teacher...you sour the gene pool.
Posted by john maasch at 04/02/2007 @ 6:28pm
Frank,
Someday you have to get off the Limbaugh, Hannidy, Fox news paraniodal train you seem to be stuck on...
Again, for your sake.
1. Limbaugh is entertainment.
2. Hannidy is on a good day annoying..I can't stand him.
You are hard to take seriously..I throw bombs here sometimes to let some fur fly...but you actually believe the fodder you post all the time.
Posted by john maasch at 04/02/2007 @ 6:31pm
Frank,
A pox on both houses concerning the border..it is one of the main issues I can't stand about Bush...plus I will never forgive Bush, either of them, for lying to me about being a conservative...they are not conservative..ever.
As to illegal immigrants being good democrats...thats why the dems want them here..to be another dependent class like they made of the blacks in America, and as a result they court them every year at election time and then screw them over the day after...
The business clowns want them here for cheap labor... these guys should be jailed and charged for all the services the illegals cost, from crimes to all the free entitlements including the cost of teaching ENGLISH...may be you like pressing 1 for English, I would rather have it said only in English...you are losing your country and don't even know or care, apparently.
Posted by john maasch at 04/02/2007 @ 6:38pm
oh, maasch, settle down, and admit that you're a terrible debater, nay horrible debater. i love this quote of yours: "are they not cutting off funding for the troops?" hysterical. and yet hannity is entertainment?
and later on, here's the moron freiheit's "analysis":
Frank, the media is indeed liberal, by its own admission. Nothing wrong with the fact that most reporters are democrats. Most are pro-abortion and liberal regarding the death penalty and the war in Iraq. There is a serious lack of "diversity" of thought in America's newrooms. Because you are liberal, liberal means normal to you. But there is clearly a bias in news to the left. Because you can't see it, or refuse to see it, doesn't mean it isn't there.
does he provide ANY facts to support his claim? no. does even wonder why not a single television network regularly includes any progressive voices at all? does he even wonder why not a SINGLE anti-war figure was shown in the run-up to the invasion? does he wonder why 70% of americans believed that hussein was involved with 9.11 by september of '03? does he even wonder why every single sunday morning---there are no progressive (read: liberal and NOT necessarily democratic) voices? does he even wonder why kristo, kagan and hewitt (who have been wrong about everything since 2001) are STILL given a WEEKLY PLATFORM TO SPOUT their far right wing nonsense?
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 6:51pm
fact: americans ARE the fattest nation on the planet.
fact #2: americans ARE the dumbest nation on the planet (how else to explain this fact: out of 34 industrialized nations, america ranked #33 in terms of their acceptance of evolution as fact. only turkey was below them).
a majority of americans believe that GOD created humans in their present form less than 10,000 years ago.
hello? how is this not dumb?
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 6:54pm
keep this in mind, too, when considering how stupid americans are:
we are the only country on earth (and the richest one at that), where a vast majority doesn't speak a second language. almost every other country on earth speaks at least a little english. the only ones that don't? they are poor, isolated.
we are rich, central, etc. overflowing with $$$. but everyone is soooooo stupid (except for in major cities). just think about it: you leave san francisco or new york, it's all fast food, chain stores, ugly suburbs (all thanks to maasch's "theories" of starving the government, and encouraging private investment).
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 6:57pm
"fact #2: americans ARE the dumbest nation on the planet (how else to explain this fact: out of 34 industrialized nations, america ranked #33 in terms of their acceptance of evolution as fact. only turkey was below them)."
It doesn't mean they are dumb..it means they have a spiritual side..and you being not one of the "dumb" Group..should know the following(have another toke, BTW)
Its called the "EVOLUTION THEORY"..look up the word theory...
as far as the rest of Americans being dumb compared to the rest of the industrialised nations...we have public schools and teachers unions run the place..we are victims..
Posted by john maasch at 04/02/2007 @ 7:04pm
Darla -
Simply because more reporters are Democrats (even IF true) does not necessarily mean that the media, as a whole, exhibits a liberal bias. There are plenty of good pieces refuting this. See Examining the "Liberal Media" Claim [fair.org] for an example.
Your line of reasoning can only be true if one first accepts as true the proposition that journalists (not columnists and opinion personalities) are unable to keep their personal views out of their reporting. Personally, I think that outlook does a disservice to many reporters. And if you look at the stats in the link I provide above, you will see that for many issues, journalists are actually to the right of the public, whether they claim to be Democrats or not. If anything, the myth of the liberal media (and it is a myth) may actually cause many newspapers, magazines, reporters, columnists, television networks to actually overcompensate so as not to appear biased.
I think a more accurately view of the media is that they exhibit a pro-corporate bias.
Posted by Hman23 at 04/02/2007 @ 7:25pm
It doesn't mean they are dumb..it means they have a spiritual side..
oh, a "spiritual side"? right, dude. you can be spiritual but STILL accept the air-tight, and extraordinarily indisputable fossil record. i'm hella spiritual, but i also think that gravity exists. that's because i read books, and think for myself.
evidently, a majority of americans can't do either.
Won't really be long until a vast majority of Americans speak spanish. Will that mean we're no longer stupid?
that's right. studies show that people who speak two languages are more intelligent. goto canada. they speak two languages. you think it's a problem? think again. canadians who come down and go to our high schools and colleges breeze through them, that's how retarded we are.
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 7:25pm
hman, you shouldn't be referring to me on that point. i'm a former media studies scholar, and anthropologist, have done numerous studies on the 'liberal media myth'. thanks.
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 7:26pm
maasch, there's a reason why evolutionary theory has the word "theory" after it---and it isn't because intelligent design is now fierce competition.
you gotta think harder, bro. you're too slow for me.....
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 7:28pm
Its called the "EVOLUTION THEORY"..look up the word theory...
Posted by JOHN MAASCH 04/02/2007 @ 7:04pm
So...this is something that has bugged me for a long time. In scientific inquiry, a theory is not synonymous with a hypothesis:
theory
A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena. Most theories that are accepted by scientists have been repeatedly tested by experiments and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
The American Heritage® Science Dictionary Copyright © 2002 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Posted by Thrawn at 04/02/2007 @ 7:28pm
thank you, thrawn. indeed, evolutionary theory, especially darwin's, has been so thoroughly tested, and for so long, that no evolutionary biologist has been able to formulate anything significantly beyong him. apparently, the maasch's of the world, this means that darwin's theories were inherently limited, or worse yet, inferior to "intelligent design." this is so laughable, on its face, that it goes without saying.
yes, more work is needed, and all theories are inherently limited; however, it's not like any scientists are currently testing the hypothesis that god created humans in their present form less than 10,000 years ago.
!!!!
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 7:32pm
freiheit, i speak fluent french, spanish (and obviously) english. and yes, i am far more intelligent for it. learning languages is not only difficult, and proven to increase brain activity and longevity, but it also allows you to travel to those countries with ease, engage their peoples, engage the culture, and allow you to learn more and more. that is so obvious it goes without saying.
But the majority of the personalities we see on TV news are liberals
not only is this not true, but it doesn't even matter. here, i propose a little research for you, freiheit. watch all of the sunday morning talk shows this sunday, and count how many progressive (or even truly liberal) voices there are, versus conservative or moderate voices. without a doubt, conservatives will dominate. less so now that the president is in a shit hole, but still a lot. if you had done this project 3 or 4 years ago, the amount of liberal commenators would have been either astoundingly low, or invisible. like i said, in the run-up to the iraq invasion, there were ZERO anti-war commenators on ANY networks. ZERO. does that mean anything to you?
and regarding house of nanking, yes of course. it's a cool place, they have always given me lots of extra, free food for some reason.
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 7:58pm
and by "liberal" or "progressive" i mean:
1. anti iraq war (immediately deadline for withdrawal)
2. pro habeas corpus
3 anti indefinite detention
4. resolute against the president
5. global warming exists, and caused by humans (no doubt)
6. israel is the real problem (who says this?)
7. pro abortion
8. pro gay rights
9. anti bush tax cuts
10 pro universal health care
i'm talking liberal or progressive across the board, here. find me one on TV. i dare you.
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 8:01pm
DARLA....again...thought you were moving to Vancouver?
Posted by Mask at 04/02/2007 @ 8:12pm
Posted by DARLADOON 04/02/2007 @ 8:01pm | ignore this person
Not all Canadians speak two languages Darla. You must be talking about French Canada...that is where everyone is forced to speak French. Take a trip to western Canada and see how much French is spoken...no the mandatory road signs in French don't count. Western Canada would like nothing better than to say bye bye to Quebec. Western Canada....where all the English speaking only people are is kicking the economic crap out of eastern Canada by the way. Take a look a real estate prices in Vancouver, Calgary, Victoria, and Edmonton. Their lack of a second language doesn't seem to be hurting them at all....whew..... Better move to Montreal...you will be appreciated there but ignored elsewhere in Canada.
Posted by OneVote at 04/02/2007 @ 8:47pm
1 year, mask, 1 year. i am engaged in three different (and recently contracted) projects that i simply cannot abandon at this point in time.
i am still very serious about vancouver though. great city, great country. wonderful (the most wonderful) people. so unpretentious, so kind, so polite, so fair, so everything americans are not. and their political debates are structured as 'left wing' vs. 'center-left wing'. there are no right wingers (like here) in canada. and right wingers make life difficult for everyone (except the really rich) here.
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 8:48pm
"The only biased journalism I've witnessed is on Faux News. All the other networks are fair and balanced."
Posted by FRANKGRITS 04/02/2007 @ 5:59pm
FRANK!
Listen to yourself. You criticize Faux News, but use Murdoch-speak as you do it. Remember this about the term "fair and balanced"-
-It does not the same thing as "truthful".
Posted by drhammer at 04/02/2007 @ 8:50pm
Take a trip to western Canada and see how much French is spoken.
wrong. most canadians speak a modicum of french. period.
in fact, french is spoken (often) in ontario, nova scotia, and pei, and the maritimes, out of courtesy.
and it is compulsory is most canadian schools within these provinces.
most americans do no speak a modicum of spanish. period.
Western Canada would like nothing better than to say bye bye to Quebec.
total horse shit! i don't even have time to answer such nonsense.
Take a look a real estate prices in Vancouver, Calgary, Victoria, and Edmonton. Their lack of a second language doesn't seem to be hurting them at all....whew..... Better move to Montreal...you will be appreciated there but ignored elsewhere in Canada.
again, TOTAL HORSESHIT! french canada has WAY MORE people, FAR MORE unions (powerful, so powerful inf act, that if western canada were to say 'bye bye' to eastern canada? no comment). and their productivity eclipses the rest of canada ALL TOGETHER. you are out of your mind, dude.
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 8:52pm
the ONLY reason there is a boom in western canada is OIL and NATURAL GAS. period. it has NOTHING to do with french you buffoon!!!!!!!!!
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 8:53pm
total horse shit! i don't even have time to answer such nonsense.
My...my...your arrogance and self righteousness will do you well in Montreal dear. Do the west coast a favor and move to Montreal. Folks on the west coast are a little more shall we say "down to earth."
Posted by OneVote at 04/02/2007 @ 8:58pm
anyone who claims that french-speaking eastern canada has lost its influence over the rest of the country has instantly proven his pointlessness in the debate. eastern canada IS canada. western canada is running on a short-lived, tech, hollywood and oil boom. but where is this money coming from? where is it going to? who does it actually support? how does it help average canadians?
oh, brother. when morons speak.
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 8:59pm
the ONLY reason there is a boom in western canada is OIL and NATURAL GAS. period. it has NOTHING to do with french you buffoon!!!!!!!!!
Posted by DARLADOON 04/02/2007 @ 8:53pm | ignore this person
Correction DD. They want nothing to do with the French.
Posted by OneVote at 04/02/2007 @ 9:01pm
Folks on the west coast are a little more shall we say "down to earth."
so, that's your rebuttal? i get upset about a ridiculous comment, and therefore i'm not "down to earth"? even though i'm a west coast, herb-growing, jewish hippie? are you f*cking serious?
you just made a ridiculous comment, dude. YOU are the one that needs some education.
oh, btw, i know canada VERY well. have relatives and friends all over, visit 10 times a year, and speak quebecoise.
what can you say?
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 9:01pm
They want nothing to do with the French.
they are not french, onevote, they are quebecoise. there is a difference. yes, they speak french, but nowhere near the haute parisien variety. in fact, they openly rebuke it.
to claim that western canada wants nothing to do with the french is so patently absurd, i don't even know where to start. do you have any evidence to support your claim? from canadian media, bien sur.
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 9:04pm
quebec has threatened to secede from canada from decades, but that threat no longer exists for preciesely the OPPOSITE reason for which onevote claims. the rest of canada came to realize NOT that french is a problem, but that french canada is the very ECONOMIC BACKBONE of canada.
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 9:05pm
Darla -
My apologies, I did not see that you were quoting Freiheit's earlier post. Explains my surprise that the thought (wrongly) was yours.
Freiheit - you have to do a little more than give it the back of your hand: "But the majority of the personalities we see on TV news are liberals."
Posted by Hman23 at 04/02/2007 @ 9:12pm
hman,
yeah, i tried to italicize freiheit's "lecture," but failed to do so.
Posted by darladoon at 04/02/2007 @ 9:17pm
What would we call this Canadian argument?
Un concours de pissant?
Posted by drhammer at 04/02/2007 @ 9:30pm
Freiheit
Do you think that there may be a distinction between the perceived, or even professed political leanings of the media personalities themselves, and the politics of those who decide what stories actually get broadcast?
('Cause I do.)
Posted by drhammer at 04/02/2007 @ 9:40pm
You know the thing I'm always curious about Canadians is is...
why do the TALENTED ones keep moving down here, if things are so great in Canada?
Shatner, Mike Myers, Jim Carrey, Leslie Nielsen, Peter Jennings, Alanis, Ackroyd, etc., etc., etc.
Oddly the nice free health care and polite people didn't stop them from heading for where the Big Bucks were at!?!??!?
Posted by Mask at 04/02/2007 @ 10:35pm
"and by "liberal" or "progressive" i mean:
1. anti iraq war (immediately deadline for withdrawal)
2. pro habeas corpus
3 anti indefinite detention
4. resolute against the president
5. global warming exists, and caused by humans (no doubt)
6. israel is the real problem (who says this?)
7. pro abortion
8. pro gay rights
9. anti bush tax cuts
10 pro universal health care
i'm talking liberal or progressive across the board, here. find me one on TV. i dare you.
Posted by DARLADOON 04/02/2007 @ 8:01pm
NO.. this is a definition of a socialistic loon...a kook, Darla.... You need to read the posts more slowly..it is not that we are to slow for you..it is that you don't read slow enough to garner the facts of ones post or you just don't comprehend the position stated.
And I am not in the camp of the creation in 10,000 years nor am I full blown Darwin fan...and a theory is true until proven false, but it is not a solid fact... I believe somewhere in between...if you are a true Darwinist..wouldn't an anti Israeli black lesbian jew be a perfect example of an endangered species?..can't reproduce oneself in the same form and has made an emeny of herself in her own tribe? Biologocally reproduction , under nature for you would be an accident at best? How are you the fittest?
No slam intended but just food for thought...if we are truely Darwinian, we would let the weak die off for the strength of the herd.....we do not do that...if fact if society were truely a darwin utopia, we wouldn't have any liberals..would we...at leadst no socialists...:)
Posted by john maasch at 04/02/2007 @ 10:54pm
maasch-Your social darwin theory makes no sense considering the fact that conservatives are not strong and liberals are not weak.Each has a mixture of both.
Posted by i'm nobody at 04/02/2007 @ 11:06pm
I'M.
Just rying to wake up Darla...difficult as it is..
Posted by john maasch at 04/02/2007 @ 11:15pm
Oddly the nice free health care and polite people didn't stop them from heading for where the Big Bucks were at!?!??!?
oh, what a shallow, shallow argument: money = happiness? intelligence?
what would you say about zen buddhists, mask? ignorant? hmmmm?
just curious, and i take back what i said about you making more sense than maasch.
Posted by darladoon at 04/03/2007 @ 12:18am
No slam intended but just food for thought...if we are truely Darwinian, we would let the weak die off for the strength of the herd.....we do not do that...if fact if society were truely a darwin utopia, we wouldn't have any liberals..would we...at leadst no socialists...:)
and white, christian america is witnessing a......resurgence? all signals point towards a major (even hedonistic, on par with the romans) collapse. we herb-growing, goddess-worshipping hippies possess the long-term view, maasch. when all land is parched, and putrid salt water permeates, you'll be coming to us for help! maasch, if you have read darwin, you would have noticed that he doesn't provide any moral basis for his arguments about the strengths or weaknesses of a given species.
and btw, if you don't think darwin is "fact" until proven so, then i'm curious how you feel about intelligent design, which is based on.......faith (and faith only).
Posted by darladoon at 04/03/2007 @ 12:25am
thanks, frank. yes, yes. perhaps we will meet when you need some good herbs.....
Posted by darladoon at 04/03/2007 @ 12:27am
maasch insists that only socialist kooks are for habeas corpus!
Posted by darladoon at 04/03/2007 @ 12:38am
no WONDER mitt romney is a leading presidential contender!
Posted by darladoon at 04/03/2007 @ 12:38am
'to claim that western canada wants nothing to do with the french is so patently absurd, i don't even know where to start. do you have any evidence to support your claim? from canadian media, bien sur.'
Posted by DARLADOON 04/02/2007 @ 9:04pm | ignore this person
I think your claim to intelligence based on your asserted tri-lingualism is belied by your "big picture" ignorance. Better not run around Western Canada with your cultural superiority theories. You may just be sent packing.
Source: Western Canada Referendum on Independence
To: Premiers of BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan & Manitoba Petition to our Provincial Government
Whereas, we the undersigned citizens of Western Canada, desire to escape the long-standing grievances which we have experienced by reason of the nation of Canada at the hands of its government at Ottawa;
And whereas we have considered after a long period of serious reflection, and every reasonable effort at accommodation and co-operation, that these long-standing grievances do not exist for mere light, transitory or partisan reasons, but are indelibly imposed on the nature and fabric of the Ottawa government and will never be remedied, no matter how often we compromise to suit its needs;
And whereas we have concluded that the grievances are so serious and permanent as to be no longer tolerable because they tax us without benefit or real representation, they oppress us with unnecessary laws and destroy our freedom beyond endurance;
Therefore we are resolved to seek to achieve a greater and more perfect unity in a nation of our own, chosen by us in our own referendum in each Western Canadian province when a majority of us so desire;
And whereas the Government at Ottawa has, through its own act entitled "An Act to give Effect to the Requirement for Clarity as set out in the opinion of the Supreme Court of Canada in the Quebec Secession Reference" and passed in the 2nd session of the Thirty-Sixth Parliament and assented to on June 29th, 2000 A.D.;
And whereas by this Act, the right of self-determination by any province is affirmed if the government of any province of Canada consults its population by referendum on any issue and it is entitled to formulate the wording of its referendum question;
And whereas the said Act requires both a clear question and a clear majority;
And whereas we the undersigned desire clarity to be established on both issues;
We, the undersigned citizens, hereby petition and demand of our provincial government as follows:
(1.) That immediately upon this petition being signed and delivered to the Premier by 10% of the population who voted in the last provincial election, the following question shall be put to all the electors of our provinces by a general referendum within 90 days of the ratification of this number of signatories to this petition by the Chief Electoral Officer of our province;
(2.) That to satisfy section 1(1) of the aforesaid Act, we hereby demand that the government of our province, in our legislative assembly, forthwith upon receipt of this petition duly signed by us, table in the legislative assembly, the following referendum question for consideration by the House of Commons at Ottawa, and thereafter put the following question to the people of our province for consideration in a referendum:
"Question: Do you desire our province to cease to be a part of Canada and become an independent sovereign nation state?"
(3.) That to satisfy the terms of Section 2(1) of the aforesaid act, our provincial government ratify, and we declare, that a clear majority shall consist of the number of 55% of all those persons who vote in the referendum to be held pursuant to section 1 hereof;
(4.) That the legislative assembly of our province formally adopt and enact the terms of this petition with no unnecessary modifications, to achieve the spirit and intent of this resolution and petition, which is to clearly express a clear majority in favour of secession of our province from Confederation as soon as legally possible.
We the undersigned free men and women of Western Canada hereby declare our solemn oath that we shall persevere by all peaceful means to escape the political economic and social oppression of the unjust system of government created by Canada and to create our own new nation by the democratic process of a constitutional convention for the creation of a nation, for the freedom of our descendants, and the preservation of our land and heritage and to this end we pledge our best efforts and our most sacred honour.
Sincerely,
Posted by OneVote at 04/03/2007 @ 06:35am
Posted by DARLADOON 04/03/2007 @ 12:18am
then DD ....why DO they move down here?
Posted by Mask at 04/03/2007 @ 07:14am
"Posted by DARLADOON 04/03/2007 @ 12:18am
then DD ....why DO they move down here?
Posted by MASK 04/03/2007 @ 07:14am |
For our medical care when they really need an operation, transplants or treatment for a disease that will kill them while they wait in line for such treatment.
Posted by john maasch at 04/03/2007 @ 09:04am
"The whole purpose of screening is to free teammates from their defenders. It's very difficult to stay with a player cutting off a screen. Therefore, setting a good screen is the best way to get your teammates open."
Posted by Bruens at 04/03/2007 @ 09:31am
why do the TALENTED ones keep moving down here, if things are so great in Canada?
Posted by MASK 04/02/2007 @ 10:35pm
You think it has anything to do with the commute from Canada to Hollywood?
Posted by Hman23 at 04/03/2007 @ 10:24am
Posted by HMAN23 04/03/2007 @ 10:24am
Lots of stars live in Montana, New York, LONDON...and get plenty of work in Hollywood. Toronto and Vancouver a short hop.
Called "private jets" (then they go to 'awarness-raising' events on Global Warming...hehe).
Plus, DD said my "money argument was shallow"....I think maybe it's the Canuck actors, singers, newsreaders who may be!
Posted by Mask at 04/03/2007 @ 10:36am
Posted by MASK 04/03/2007 @ 10:36am
Whatever. I think many of them have more than one home, probably the folks in Canada too.
Posted by Hman23 at 04/03/2007 @ 11:22am
Posted by HMAN23 04/03/2007 @ 11:22am
Look, it's an easy answer....
Because THIS (the US) is ...as Sam Kinison used to say to the Ethiopians about food....IS WHERE THE LOOT IS!
Shatner doesn't become a billionaire from Priceline and real estate, if he stays in Ottawa and works at the Toronto Community Theatre instead of ending up at Paramount making a TV series by Gene Roddenberry. Carrey doesn't pull down $20 Million a picture working for Lionsgate making romantic comedies in Vancouver. Alanis doesn't get $100,000 a show playing Windsor and Moose Jaw...she gets it playing 20,000 seat venues in Philly, Atlanta, Chicago, or Seattle.
Was Peter Jennings going to pull down a couple million a year....working as an anchor for the CBC?!?!?!
For all the "wonders" of Canadian life and largesse from the boys in Ottawa.....when the talented Canadians go looking for a better life....they go South.
And they somehow ENDURE our lack of nationalized health care...and our depressingly low tax rates!
Posted by Mask at 04/03/2007 @ 1:28pm
For all the "wonders" of Canadian life and largesse from the boys in Ottawa.....when the talented Canadians go looking for a better life....they go South.
And they somehow ENDURE our lack of nationalized health care...and our depressingly low tax rates!
Posted by MASK 04/03/2007 @ 1:28pm | ignore this person
GO GET EM MASK....HAHAHAHA.....
Posted by OneVote at 04/03/2007 @ 2:09pm