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It is so exciting for me to get the opportunity to blog at the Nation for a month and thanks to all that have made this a possibility. The Nation was a pivotal publication in the formation of my political awareness, so to be asked to write here is pretty amazing.
In the summer of 1999, it was a Nation article that prompted me to write about a topic that went on to become one of my favorite issues to explore in the blogosphere. Hip-hop. I did a quick search at TheNation.com to find the article and found it was in fact online (isn't that fun!) and brought back nostalgia of my days in college, as an activist, feminist and hip-hop head, looking for words to express my new found political self. The article, "Rhyme and Resist: Organizing a Hip-Hop Generation," by Angela Ards delved into the need to connect to young people through hip-hop.
"When spirits got low, the people would sing," Brown explains: "The one thing we did right/Was the day we started to fight/Keep your eyes on the prize/Oh, Lord." Her rich contralto, all by itself, sounds like the blended harmonies of Sweet Honey in the Rock, but it's not stirring this crowd of 150 Southern youth. Two fresh-faced assistants bound on stage to join in like cheerleaders at a pep rally. Most of the others, however, take their cues from the older teens, slouched in their seats in an exaggerated posture of cool repose. Brown hits closer to their sensibilities when she resorts to funk. "Say it loud," she calls. "I'm black and I'm proud," they respond. But a brash cry from the back of the room speaks more to their hearts. "Can we sing some Tupac?" Another cracks, "Y'all wanna hear some Busta Rhymes?"
At this moment there were a handful of authors that had begun to talk about the possibility of organizing through hip-hop. It was already understood that hip-hop was political and it certainly gave many disenfranchised youth a vehicle through which to communicate the material conditions of their lives. There was no question that hip-hop was a movement, but whether it would ever be considered a "legitimate" political movement was yet to be seen.
At the time, I was enrolled at SUNY Albany in the undergraduate women's studies program, where a real woman of color feminism had yet to be adequately articulated. Most feminism about women of color was relegated to "international" issues rather than as an analysis of how women of color negotiate their identities in a culture of racism, imperialism, nationalism and media objectification. To be a feminist and a hip-hop head was a contradiction--feminists were assumed white and hip-hop heads black.
Influenced by Ards and a handful of other authors (Tricia Rose and Eisa Davis) that had started to talk about hip-hop and feminism, I began to write about the political power of hip hop, how it connected to feminism and the need for dialogue between these two worlds.
Ultimately, I was ambivalent, because I realized I would never be comfortable being called a "bitch" or a "ho" no matter how much I knew you didn't totally mean it, but I also realized I would forever love hip-hop. And here I am 10 years later, still working through the same questions, and continuing to function in a political climate that is hostile to youth and the hip-hop generation and a culture of misogyny and materialism that has drowned some of the most poignant and sharp criticism of oppression through words, beats and rhythms. Organizing the hip-hop generation and organizing young feminists is still a task for our current generation of activists. There are still tensions and splits between and within the communities, but through our words and our interventions, we can create space for the politics of women of color. As witnessed in the coverage of this upcoming election, the voices of women of color are still only heard marginally and it is on us to continually push ourselves into the forefront of political dialog.
It is through blogging that many of these discussions have continued and flourished, so thank you Nation for extending that audience ever so slightly more.
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Hi!
Posted by Zero at 03/04/2008 @ 2:51pm
Samhita: Ultimately, I was ambivalent, because I realized I would never be comfortable being called a "bitch" or a "ho" no matter how much I knew you didn't totally mean it, but I also realized I would forever love hip-hop.
You need to get some help! You've already wasted 10 years of your live.....and it shows on your face!
Hip-hop, IMO, is a direct opposite of everything sane women stands! It is also the embodiment of "Black Rednecks" that Thomas Sowell defined as one huge cause of why black society is so f*&dup!
Posted by Happy at 03/04/2008 @ 3:16pm
Ms Mukhopadhyay, don't fret about HAPPY.
If he had been born 50 years earlier, he'd have been one of those folks who said "Elvis was the Devil, and wore that bouffant hair-do to cover up his horns!"
Posted by Mask at 03/04/2008 @ 3:40pm
welcome samhita- hope you have thick skin, because most feminist posts get eaten alive here. On the topic at hand- Hip hop is dead. "Ghetto fabulous" has hijacked the movement and you'll be hard pressed to ever revive it and return it to its roots. A question I wonder often...who hijacked it, really? Why do all of these new age rappers have nothing better to do than to rap about than 22s, gold teeth and cristal? I think hip hop got bought by the record labels, and as it turned into a commodity instead of an art, it lost all substance and value.
Posted by jro555 at 03/04/2008 @ 3:45pm
and on the topic of feminism and hip hop.... um...are you kidding? of all the music genres, none is more misogynist and violent towards women than hip hop and rap.
Posted by jro555 at 03/04/2008 @ 3:47pm
don't fret about HAPPY.
Posted by MASK 03/04/2008 @ 3:40pm
Heheheheh....She swapped out her photo and only ZERO and I got to see it!!!
Thank you, Ms. Mukhopadhyay, for fretting about me.......I consider your `switch' high compliment!
Look forward to your possible `recovery'!
Posted by Happy at 03/04/2008 @ 3:48pm
Posted by HAPPY 03/04/2008 @ 3:48pm :: yes you would be proud wouldn't you. Congratulations on being a shallow, empty soul.
Posted by jro555 at 03/04/2008 @ 3:52pm
HAPPY -- I knew you were sort of delusional but stop flattering yourself--we switched the photo b/c I had made a mistake and initially had the wrong one put up. Had nothing to do with you.
JRO -- Listen to Under my Thumb or Brown Sugar sometime. Sadly, numerous musical genres reflect terrible sexism. It's not at all confined to hip-hop. I think it was Bob Dylan who cautioned" "Don't criticize what you don't understand."
Posted by Peter Rothberg at 03/04/2008 @ 3:58pm
Posted by JRO555 03/04/2008 @ 3:52pm
HAPP has this VERY bad habit of insulting women on their looks, even ones he DOESN'T see a picture of....ask him about my wife sometimes!
Posted by Mask at 03/04/2008 @ 4:10pm
Posted by PETER ROTHBERG 03/04/2008 @ 3:58pm:: Hi peter- "don't criticize what you don't understand"- does this mean you are an authority on hip hop and rap? What is it that I don't understand about rap/hip-hop? And more importantly- why do you presume I know nothing about the genre? You name two examples of sexism outside of rap- I can name hundreds of sexism in rap and hiphop. Their albums are saturated with it- how would I know? Because I own alot of them.
Posted by jro555 at 03/04/2008 @ 4:12pm
HAPPY -- I knew you were sort of delusional but stop flattering yourself--we switched the photo b/c I had made a mistake and initially had the wrong one put up. Had nothing to do with you.
Posted by PETER ROTHBERG 03/04/2008 @ 3:58pm
PETER: Thanks for the `compliment' for just being "sort of delusional"....payoff for my voting for Obama, right? I also admire your honesty, don't see that much.....except after somebody gets fired :~)
BTW, why don't you add back that original photo and explain who she was....I think it was still Ms. Mukhopadhyay....even if a terribly UNflatttering one!
Posted by Happy at 03/04/2008 @ 4:12pm
Posted by MASK 03/04/2008 @ 4:10pm :: yes he's such a charmer *gag*
Posted by jro555 at 03/04/2008 @ 4:13pm
Tell me Peter- how many rap or hip hop albums do you own?? who's your favorite artist?
Posted by jro555 at 03/04/2008 @ 4:15pm
Congratulations on being a shallow, empty soul.
Posted by JRO555 03/04/2008 @ 3:52pm
Just maybe, I have found my Entitlement to "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of HAPPINESS"! But wait, I AM HAPPINESS......(cue Gilda Ratner) "Never Mind!"
"I'm the One I have been waiting for!".....don't recall where I came up with this line.......some Smooth Operator somewhere....:)
Posted by Happy at 03/04/2008 @ 4:20pm
Posted by HAPPY 03/04/2008 @ 4:20pm ::: I find it especially funny you comment about "sane woman" above....but your posts are always bat shit crazy and nonsensical. But at least you're HAPPY :)
Posted by jro555 at 03/04/2008 @ 4:22pm
JRO -- From the way you write, I took a wild guess that you might not possess the requisite background to make credible sweeping judgements on the genre. From your reply, I feel confirmed in my initial view. I coincidentally happen to be seeing the Beastie Boys perform tonight. They're not nearly as sexist as the majority of rock/country/heavy metal singers. Of course there's some bad shit in hip hop but trying to tar is as THE sexist, materiaslitic genre is unfair and does not suggest a thorough knowledge of the musical form.
Posted by Peter Rothberg at 03/04/2008 @ 4:23pm
I doubt anyone will humor me but...staying on topic here... have there ever been any "feminist" rappers/ hip hoppers? Even back in the more innocent, youthful hip hop 80's , female empowerment or gender equality would be a hard subject to come by.
Posted by jro555 at 03/04/2008 @ 4:23pm
Posted by PETER ROTHBERG 03/04/2008 @ 4:23pm :: um, from the way I write? what, am I supposed to write a certain way to have some street cred?? Man, talk about "sweeping generalizations!" I lived in the 'burbs of NYC growing up, I went to school in Brooklyn, and I listen to hip hop and rap. Anyone who owns any rap albums knows whats on it, and you'll be hard pressed to name a single album that doesn't say "ho" or "bitch" in it. and the beastie boys?? Awesome group- but what about their song "Girls"?? "Girls to do the dishes"? Girls to clean up my room?" You ever listen to that one Peter?
Posted by jro555 at 03/04/2008 @ 4:26pm
I'm not surprised that you're from the 'burbs JRO.
Posted by Peter Rothberg at 03/04/2008 @ 4:27pm
And just for the recxord, KRS-One has recorded something like 25 rap albums with very little use of words like ho and bitch...
Posted by Peter Rothberg at 03/04/2008 @ 4:28pm
If he had been born 50 years earlier, he'd have been one of those folks who said "Elvis was the Devil, and wore that bouffant hair-do to cover up his horns!"
Posted by MASK 03/04/2008 @ 3:40pm
Well, this is one of my HAPPIER days.....kinda proud of myself for breaking new ground in voting in a Dem Primary......and this thread is the Diversion we all need away from the `Kitchen'!
I thought I was "born 50 years earlier", plus some change.....MASKy don't know this?!?!
Posted by Happy at 03/04/2008 @ 4:30pm
And I'm sorry Peter- but let me be frank. I'm 23 years old- I grew up listening to this stuff- hip hop and rap hit the scene in the 80's and I've grown to watch it evolve from playful, beat boxing, Fresh Prince style to hard core gangsta, 2pac and Dr. Dre, and then transform into ghetto fabulous P-diddy and 50 cent crap. Only hip hoppers keeping it real are Outkast,the Roots, Black Eye Peas, and Nas (sort of...).
Posted by jro555 at 03/04/2008 @ 4:32pm
Posted by PETER ROTHBERG 03/04/2008 @ 4:27pm :: hah, what's that supposed to mean? little jab at the city outsiders? nice. You always seemed like a nice enough fellow, I am often in agreement with your viewpoints and enjoy reading your blogs, but geez....don't ever disagree with you...
Posted by jro555 at 03/04/2008 @ 4:34pm
Posted by HAPPY 03/04/2008 @ 4:30pm
I meant what I said, HAPP. If you're in your 50s, you were born in the late 50s and grew up on rock-n-roll.
If you had been born in the 1900s, 1910s....you'd have been in your 50s in the late 1950s and grew up on Benny Goodman and Kate Smith....and would likely think "this rock AND roll stuff the kids listen to is satanic and will drive them to drink beer and smoke cigarettes!!!"
Posted by Mask at 03/04/2008 @ 4:40pm
BTW, not to appear as the stilted and obviously lying Bing Crosby discussing "modern music" with David Bowie in the Christmas Special, but...
I like some of the newer music, though I'm actually a classic blues fan or like a little Allman Brothers or Marshall Tucker.
Posted by Mask at 03/04/2008 @ 4:41pm
...little Allman Brothers or Marshall Tucker.
Posted by MASK 03/04/2008 @ 4:41pm
I know you are a Son of the South....and HAPPY that you didn't miss out on the South's major contributions to American Music....don't forget, the Free Bird singers!
Posted by Happy at 03/04/2008 @ 4:51pm
Actually- I retract my statement. Andre 3000 of Outkast has a handful of tracks that are really supportive of women.
Posted by jro555 at 03/04/2008 @ 4:58pm
Peter: the Beastie Boys are an interesting thing. In a very deep way, they reflect an exploitation of black musical genre by a group that doesn't always relate well to black people, American Jews. I suppose you're aware that the Beastie Boys started out as satirical schtick? It became a saleable act and went big, but they started out mocking black music and rap.
While white America has now created a global popular music industry based on white people playing music invented by black people, white America rails at the "sexism" etc. of the music when performed by some people of color. There are a lot of issues here.
Posted by Zero at 03/04/2008 @ 4:58pm
And JRO: to answer your question "what happened to hip-hop?" I think the reason is clear. The American corporate popular music industry is where good music goes to die and be reborn as audio Snickers bars to be fed to whitebread kids out in the 'burbs. Rap and hip-hop in mass produced form long ago ceased to be anything but vehicles for sneaker and athletic clothing salesman to ride in on MTV on their way to the big money. The same thing happened to the range of music called "rock", earlier. By the time the 1970's rolled around, the entire world of rock centered on the generation of album and concert-ticket sales, and by the time the 1980's rolled around, fashion sales as well became important. At this point, mass-produced corporate American music products and their performers really play second fiddle next to the highly visible product placements for the fashion industry and the pizza and soda pop commercials on MTV.
Posted by Zero at 03/04/2008 @ 5:04pm
(I am pleased to say that I avoid the L.A.-N.Y. fashion-entertainment Borg Collective by engaging with music either of underground genre or only available performed live, locally, in smaller venues.)
Posted by Zero at 03/04/2008 @ 5:07pm
Posted by ZERO 03/04/2008 @ 5:07pm :: yea..but some of the hottest indie bands are in NYC- one of my new favs is "blond redhead". Boston is a great city for low-key, indie rock bands too.
Posted by jro555 at 03/04/2008 @ 5:15pm
there's only two kinds of music:
good and not good.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/04/2008 @ 9:59pm
welcome samhita! great post! i am in the same quandary as you. i love hip hop. and i'm a feminist. i know there are feminists who would like to kill me for saying that. i couldn't care less.
keep ya head up by tupac is the most beautiful deeply feminist song there is. could there be a more feminist song than that?? i cry every time i hear it. i miss him.
brenda's got a baby and dear momma are two more by tupac that really address the problems of women. there is no music anywhere else that touches the rawness and pain and truth that women deal with. hip hop may contain the most overt misogyny but it also contains the most real heartfelt pro-woman messages.
eminem's mockingbird shows genuine honest love for his daughter. many hip hop artists have made beautiful songs for their mothers. i don't know about damien marley being considered hip hop but he has some great songs dealing with women's issues.
country and rock are filled with insidious, often hidden, misogyny. sometimes its in your face and much worse than rap. people don't seem to bitch about that as much though, if at all.
Posted by loveloki at 03/04/2008 @ 11:23pm
Posted by ZERO 03/04/2008 @ 5:04pm
WELL SAID.
Posted by JOMAMMA at 03/04/2008 @ 11:55pm
Welcome, Samhita! Pardon my poetry:
The most needful act
of your imagination
is to put yourself
in another person's situation.
I am not able to enjoy hip-hop as much as other art forms (at least not yet), but I consider this to be mostly my fault. Maybe I'm just too old (or still too immature).
The most revolutionary moments in hip-hop generally get the least air time. This isn't hip-hop's fault; the same rules make most of our corporate media a wasteland and send us scouring the internet for honesty and insight.
A previous progressive generation once said: "The revolution will not be televised." Well, at least it won't be widely broadcast. You have to dig for it, in every medium and in every genre.
I only wish people would not so easily dismiss what they do not know or cannot understand. I continue to try to correct this mistake as I continue to make it. The best thing would be for us all to practice articulate listening as well as articulate speech, which you can indeed find in hip-hop when you look for it. (Even I know this much.) Only in this way can we build a truly learned and civilized, diverse but peaceful culture.
Here's some more doggerel of mine (sorry, all you professionals out there):
The humanities and science
must form an alliance.
E pluribus unum!
We have the instruments;
now let's tune 'em.
Posted by JakobFabian at 03/05/2008 @ 04:35am
Welcome Samhita - I look forward to reading your posts.
Btw, for hip-hop that isn't sexist, look outside NY (shocking as the idea may seem). Ever heard of Godessa? (giving you three feminist rappers in one go) Roots Manuva? Hip-hop isn't dead...whatever that mainstream junk is, I wouldn't call it hip-hop any more.
Posted by Deadra at 03/05/2008 @ 06:17am
Oh, and those suggestions were just English language stuff I could think of right away...there are French, German and Italian feminist rappers as well, and those are just the ones I have access to, because I understand their lyrics.
Feminism and hip-hop go well together, I think.
Posted by Deadra at 03/05/2008 @ 06:24am
"eminem's mockingbird shows genuine honest love for his daughter. many hip hop artists have made beautiful songs for their mothers." - Ok..Eminem? He wrote songs about killing his girlfriend (you know, the mother of his daughter, or as Peter would have me say it to show that I have street cred, "his babies momma")and some really angry, violent rants against his mother. "Superman", "cleanin' out the closet", "bonnie and clyde", "Guilty Conscience" ,"Kill you" ....the list goes on for angry, violent towards women rants on the part of Eminem. In his defense...he didn't have the happiest childhood....
Posted by jro555 at 03/05/2008 @ 08:21am
Posted by DEADRA 03/05/2008 @ 06:17am - thanks for the 411, I'll be sure to check 'em out.
Posted by jro555 at 03/05/2008 @ 08:21am
"country and rock are filled with insidious, often hidden, misogyny. sometimes its in your face and much worse than rap. people don't seem to bitch about that as much though, if at all."Posted by LOVELOKI 03/04/2008 @ 11:23pm:: some examples?? (I know they're out there, just playing devils advocate).
Posted by jro555 at 03/05/2008 @ 09:55am
JRO -- Apologies for any insult. But I think the problem is that you're too young to know--again KRS-One and a whole host of strong female rappers suggest that the genre isn't as monothlithic as I think you suggest.
Posted by Peter Rothberg at 03/05/2008 @ 10:37am
i know about eminem, jro555. i should have said, even eminem, one of the worst for misogynist lyrics has the song mockingbird. i think its less about his childhood and more about shock value--its like he learned from madonna. i like the song with kim in the trunk. i've had murderous fantasies about an ex. i can relate.
as far as your devil's advocate question, i don't know. i'll have to think about it. i just woke up. i never ever listen to country. so the only country i could think of would be ancient. as for rock, there is some hideous song from nickelback. i'm not good with the names of songs. like i said it's early. i'll have to think about it.
thanks for the info deadra.
Posted by loveloki at 03/05/2008 @ 10:45am
Posted by PETER ROTHBERG 03/05/2008 @ 10:37am:: yea but Peter- too young to know? That is kind of inconsistent with your postings on the youth vote and student activism. You are actually the last person I ever expected to write off someone because of their youth. And on the subject matter at hand, I would dare suggest the youth have more clout and insight on the subject then our older posters who didn't grow up under the influence of rap and hip hop. But yes, rap and hip-hop aren't one big monolithic group as most would have us believe. BUT- the overt sexist (often violent) lyrics cannot be ignored, the objectification of women in music videos (rap videos these days put the 80s hairband video vixens to shame in their objectification of women) and women being referred to as "bitch", "ho" cannot be ignored. Maybe rap is just more popular and thats why its misogyny is so apparent- but the current popular manifestation of rap and hip hop are unquestionably rife with sexism.
Posted by jro555 at 03/05/2008 @ 11:56am
"even eminem, one of the worst for misogynist lyrics has the song mockingbird. i think its less about his childhood and more about shock value--its like he learned from madonna." ::: ok, please site some examples of Madonna being misogynist. Her sexual endeavors and preferences may differ from yours, but when has she ever belittled or acted violent towards women? And as for "mockingbird"- you think he wouldn't have the same love for a son? His tenderness is for his offspring, regardless of gender, and all other instances clearly show he has no respect or regard for women.
Posted by jro555 at 03/05/2008 @ 11:59am
ok jro555: billy idol, flesh for fantasy. kid rock--some song about staying home with granny if you can't take being sexually harassed. prince, little red corvette. i'm sure there's more by prince. van halen, catholic girls, sugar walls. who did centerfold? uncle cracker had at least one rather disgusting song. stand by your man always irritated me. the nickelback one says something like, "i like my hands around your neck. i like your pants around your legs..." isn't that nickelback? i'll try to think of some more.
why does rap get all the attention on this subject? it seems like people are trying to blame rap for creating something that existed long before rap. this smacks of racism to me.
Posted by loveloki at 03/05/2008 @ 12:22pm
jr0555, i was talking about madonna cashing in on "shock value", not misogyny. that is what i said.
Posted by loveloki at 03/05/2008 @ 12:24pm
Posted by LOVELOKI 03/05/2008 @ 12:24pm:: right, ok, but do you think she was being insincere? was she faking all the outlandish sex fetishes? I think she was sincere, this combined with her overt sexuality (in a time not quite as pro-sex as now) made it "shocking". Do you question Eminem's sincerity when he loudly expresses his violent hate toward his mother, his ex-wife, and women in general? I think he is sincere, and that combined with his shameless violent rantings against women (in a day and age that this should not occur) makes it "shocking".
Posted by jro555 at 03/05/2008 @ 1:06pm
Posted by LOVELOKI 03/05/2008 @ 12:22pm :: "why does rap get all the attention on this subject? it seems like people are trying to blame rap for creating something that existed long before rap. this smacks of racism to me." 1) it gets all the attention because rap and hip-hop are most popular these days 2) No one is blaming rap for creating sexism- we are blaming it for promoting it and instigating it. 3) how does drawing attention to overt misogyny qualify as racism? what, no one is allowed to be critical of a genre that is over saturated with sexist lyrics and disrespect towards women?
Posted by jro555 at 03/05/2008 @ 1:13pm
misogyny in rap/hip-hop songs: "low" flo rider feat Tpain, "Get Low"- Lil Jon & The East Side Boyz Featuring Ying Yang Twins, "Wait (The Whisper Song)" - Ying Yang Twins, "Money Maker" - Ludacris with Pharrell, "Shake Ya Tailfeather" - Nelly, P. Diddy & Murphy Lee, "Thong Song" - Siquo, "Gold Digger" - Kanye West, "Freek-A-Leek" - Petey Pablo, "Shake that ass" - Mystikal, "Big Pimpin'" - Jay-Z, "Holidae Inn" - Chingy with Ludacris & Snoop Dogg, "Magic Stick" - Lil Kim with 50 Cent, "Shake That" - Eminem with Nate Dogg :::: that's barely scratching the surface of it. And the song titles hardly do justice to the lyrics and subject matter.
Posted by jro555 at 03/05/2008 @ 1:21pm
funny enough, the nation has an article here about how sexist rap and hip-hop is and what some activists are trying to do to reverse it: Drop It Low: Sexist Rap Reconsidered- http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070604/sexist_rap
Posted by jro555 at 03/05/2008 @ 1:27pm
is rap the most popular? i heard country was. what's corrine bailey rae? she's popular. i know there's misogyny in rap, jr0555. i thought about restricting my teenage sons from listening to it. i decided to never censor their music, no matter how hideous it got. there are some pretty ugly things in rap, sexism is just one of many. there is also lots of beauty in rap. i'm not that into rap. i like some of it. i like most music. country is difficult for me to like. but i can find a few.
Posted by loveloki at 03/05/2008 @ 2:07pm
Posted by LOVELOKI 03/05/2008 @ 2:07pm::: good point, I think its definitely a regional thing. Up here in the north east, rap is pretty popular. Maybe elsewhere in the nation country music remains the most popular. I'm not trying to write off rap and hip-hop as ugly and irrelevant- I own tons of albums, I love the beats and yes there are certainly examples of great music and insightful lyrics too- but unfortunately, the bad outweighs the good in this scenario (in my opinion).
Posted by jro555 at 03/05/2008 @ 2:13pm
i find country to be the most repulsive, the most filled with ugly sentiment. it's the most popular in montana, exept in butte, thankfully. country music bars close down for want of patronage pretty quick here.
at christmas dinner, of course, i found myself in a most ironic argument with my step brothers over country music. they are native american and they were outraged at my inability to see the beauty of country music. one of them is a contrarian, so i understood where he was coming from. the other though, remains an enigma. he also likes rush and o'reilly. i completely adore him anyway.
Posted by loveloki at 03/05/2008 @ 3:24pm
JRO, I get your point, the bad does outweigh the good...whenever I see or hear 50 Cent I want to go and smash something.
Here's something else I noticed, though: My younger sister's boyfriend, who is pretty much the kindest, most open-minded and respectful guy his age I've ever come across, listens to a certain type of German rap (they call it 'Aggro', which should tell you all you need to know). One of the songs he played to me was about getting together with your 'homies' (they use the English words) to go find a 'bitch', and to slap her around until she stops moving, so you can fuck her the way you want it.
He was startled when I called him on how sexist the lyrics were. He didn't get why I was upset, because it was "just music". Music he listens to every single day, without reflecting on it for even a minute. I think that sexism in music (but particularly in rap, where the mix with that extreme masculinity that they promote makes it more brutal) *trivializes* misogyny. Perhaps that's not the right word. How best to describe a process that conditions people to dance and have a good time while you hear stories of women being brutalized?
Posted by Deadra at 03/05/2008 @ 3:27pm
Posted by DEADRA 03/05/2008 @ 3:27pm::: exactly!! I look back at my old rap albums and wonder, why, oh why, did I give this sexist jerk my money? The truth is- a lot of people don't even listen to rap and hip-hop for the lyrics, they just want to dance. Rap and hip-hop of course have great beat, rhythm and base- perfect to dance to! And so we dance...to the tune of violence, misogyny, drug abuse, materialism and greed.
Posted by jro555 at 03/05/2008 @ 4:00pm
and honestly... "dance" is a very generous term for what we do nowadays. I'm not much of a club hopper anymore, but the whole "grind" thing truly is stupid. I find so much more satisfaction in salsa and merengue (though I'm not any good yet)- there is reason, steps, teamwork involved...skill and talent!! Bumpin and grinding really is just a prelude to sex...there is very little else to it besides rubbing your crotch on someone elses crotch.
Posted by jro555 at 03/05/2008 @ 4:03pm
I actually give a lecture on feminist hip-hop in my rhetorical analysis class.
A lot of the men and women are suprised to here the empowering feminist hip-hop is actually a cornerstone of the late 80s early 90s golden age of hip-hop. Whether it's Roxanne Shante battling the guys, Mc Lyte refusing to kiss on the first date and warning women of Poor Georgies, Queen Latifah's "Ladies First" or Salt N Pepa's "Express yourself."
Instead their used to the 3rd wave/sexual materialism hybrid of Lil Kim and Trina. I think similar to male fans, a lot of women don't particularly embrace the prevailing trends, but thats all they are offered. Likewise for the women from poor backgrounds, "performing" hypersexuality is an ends to a mean--so its a sick feedback loop of youth desperate for riches and labels ready to exploit.
So i really do think hip-hop feminism can really connect with a wide range of women who are exasperated with the drama queens and Disney creations as well as a litany of issues that affect young women.
But with the decline of the industry I think we'll hear from more underground and emerging women, like Jean Grae. Also peep Kid Sister.
Glad hip-hop is represented in the Nation, keep doing your thang.
Posted by Slangdini at 03/05/2008 @ 9:05pm
Feminism I support and understand & Hip-Hop makes me barf. I see it as misogynistic, which puts it as an opposite of a feminist viewpoint- kind of like a hot snowball.
Musically, I see Hip-Hop as a refuge for those lacking the skill or discipline to learn a real instrument. Sampling is nothing more than plagiarism and a drum machine track or loop is no replacement for real percussion.
The bulk of today's 'Hip-Hop' is a minstrel show for white suburban kids. What that has to do with anything political of any serious value is negligible.
I reject the title and the concept.
Posted by NoPCZone at 03/06/2008 @ 02:14am
One thing I can't understand is how some can make broad sweeping comments about any particular genre and not immediately think, "Hey I'm about to make a broad sweeping comment about a particular genre, isn't that going to make me look very ignorant and possibly even arogant? Hmmm, poosibly so. In that case I shall keep my broad sweeping comment about a particular genre to myself so I don't look ignorant or arogant."
Posted by adamsr74 at 03/06/2008 @ 2:42pm
There is still a ton of good hip hop around, you just can't look towards the usual radio (c)rap suspects to find it. Immortal Technique, deltron zero, jedi mind tricks, the rza, vast aire, the roots, and countless others still put out music with a message deeper than bitches and bling. Zero and a few others already expressed exactly what happens- a new musical genre forms, the kids think its cool, corporate interests coopt it for profit, and the big name acts then all spew forth the same insipid drivel. Hardcore punk follows a very similar paradigm. Look beyond the douchebag radio acts for the good music- its still out there.
Posted by entropy at 03/06/2008 @ 3:01pm
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/action/ignore.mhtml?who=Deadra
maybe it sounds better in German?
Posted by emile duBois at 03/06/2008 @ 10:14pm
Bumpin and grinding really is just a prelude to sex...there is very little else to it besides rubbing your crotch on someone elses crotch.
Posted by JRO555 03/05/2008 @ 4:03pm | ignore this person
they used to say the same thing about
the waltz
Posted by emile duBois at 03/06/2008 @ 10:15pm
let's be clear. hip hop reflects the society, it does not lead it.
same with all other arts.
take film.in the 50s there was a soft soft core film genre where women would be shown raped and roughed up. in fact the movies were called "roughies"
this kind of thing is still featured in movies.
Incidentally I have a treatment for a film script about the parson, his sweet faithful wife and his adorable and kind children. but I can't seem to get any producers to return my calls.
Posted by emile duBois at 03/06/2008 @ 10:20pm
Musically, I see Hip-Hop as a refuge for those lacking the skill or discipline to learn a real instrument.
c'mon now. that's what they used to say about rock n' roll and a out ragtime before that. it's absurd and false. electronic instruments are instruments. don't be such an old fart.
don't listen to it.
Posted by emile duBois at 03/06/2008 @ 10:23pm
... and about...
Posted by emile duBois at 03/06/2008 @ 10:23pm
Okay i had to comment before reading all the posts. Someone posted that they were 23 and grew up on hip-hop. Congrats, dear. I'm 31 and I grew up on hip-hop as well. For people who want to criticize what they obviously don't understand(hip-hop is against what every sane woman stands for), do not stereotype. Grand Master Flash, Public Enemy, KRS-1, Nas, Eric B and Rakim are all artists who never had a bitch/ho rhetoric in their songs. I know today's brand of hip-hop has been hijacked by corporations to sell to kids who mostly have nothingin common with the rappers themselves. There are, though, new artists such as Lupe Fiasco, Kanye West, and Common who represent true hip-hop instead of the materialists, simple-lyric having rappers. True artists are called MC's. The young boys today are just rappers, not MC's. They couldn't move a crowd if they paid it. Hip-hop can be another vehicle for change, if used properly. Unfortunately in this day and age of coddling our children or outright neglecting parental duties due to chasing the dollar, these kids today don't have values. This isn't particular to the black community either since the majority of hip-hop buyers are white kids(more disposable income). So I must say to those that want to paint all hip-hop as mysoginist(sp?), please do the requisite research. Even my 63 year-old mother who once said that rap was a fad, doesn't streotype like most of you. I can't stand country music but I don't classify Clint Black as a whiny inbred hick.
Posted by k330k at 03/07/2008 @ 08:35am
Posted by SLANGDINI 03/05/2008 @ 9:05pm
I saw a Kid Sister video and I tried to listen to her lyrics and was disappointed. I don't know but I'll give her another listen. She looked like a pretty girl someone gave a chance to make a rap album. Like I said I will give her music another look. Great post, though.
Posted by k330k at 03/07/2008 @ 08:40am
Posted by ENTROPY 03/06/2008 @ 3:01pm
Damn! I forgot about "The Roots". Their "Illadelph" album was the shit. They make great music. The best live-band hip-hop group ever!
Posted by k330k at 03/07/2008 @ 08:42am
Tears of laughter as I mocked my children's for their stupid music.
Posted by MARYBRETBRAD 03/07/2008 @ 07:00am
grammar is one of karma's greatest weapons.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/07/2008 @ 09:22am
Rock created drugs. That's like being in a group called "Christians against Christ"
Posted by MARYBRETBRAD 03/07/2008 @ 07:14am
isn't the wine supposed to be christ's blood?
drugs in church.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/07/2008 @ 09:24am
Oxymoronic, I beleive is the term.
Posted by MARYBRETBRAD 03/07/2008 @ 07:14am
hip hop is just a set a rhythms.
the lyrical content can be expressed through any musical genre.
your cheatin' heart............
but the simplicity in the harmonic and melodic structure allows for more focus to be shone upon the lyrical content.
sexist and violent lyrics appeal to humans for the same reason SAW 17 breaks boxoffice records or the traffic slows down to look at THE TERRIBLE ACCIDENT -- we're animals and these things access our psyche through the quickest channels, those of procreation and survival.
it's the easiest way to make money.
art is sidelined.
poetry is motion,
declined.
"gimme pussy
then i'll break your face"
the disgrace of the race to the place
where dollars reign over pools, fools, and waste.
waste of our brains with rhymin' that's lame
a sham, a scam,
damn!,
but we know who's to blame...........
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/07/2008 @ 09:42am
Posted by K330K 03/07/2008 @ 08:35am
dollar-chasers... lol.
you know hip-hop is very popular outside the u.s., supplanting many other formerly popular style in many nations worldwide.
here's some mexican hip-hop:
GIMME THA POWER [youtube.com]
from japan:
Galaxy in the groove [youtube.com]
from south africa:
Hegemony [youtube.com]
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/07/2008 @ 10:12am
a dangerous statement.
Posted by frosty zoom at 03/07/2008 @ 11:10am
Posted by FROSTY ZOOM 03/07/2008 @ 10:12am
'Preciate the links FROSTY. The music was great. "Hegemony" by Ben Sharpa was the dopest of all. He reminds me of MC's from the nineties. I miss those times. Thanks for the knowledge.
Posted by k330k at 03/07/2008 @ 3:09pm
The only issue I have about the article is that hip-hop began as a political movement. The streets is all hip hop knew in it's infancy. The original artists came out of the 60's civil rights movement. What you are trying to do has already been done. What we need to address is the racism that continues to control the domain of discourse. What was important to speak about, justice, equality and freedom, was silenced in favor of money; cash and hoes. This was done thru reward and punishment. The artists that expressed the latter were rewarded while the former were branded as nationalists, extremists and reverse racists. Use hip-hop as a movement but remember what you are fighting against.
Posted by Heru at 03/10/2008 @ 4:01pm
I'm 43, and I remember when Grand Master Flash and the Furious Five, KRS One and Boogie Down Productions and Afrika Bambaata and the Soul Sonic force were considered "new".
I still love hip-hop, but what most of you are putting down is rap. I agree that it sucks.
But I'm also a Philly girl, so I can go to the Electric Factory every once in awhile and catch The Roots or any of the other hip-hop acts that gravitate to that venue.
You can find good stuff, but you have to make the effort. The record companies are not going to make it easy for you. Garbage sells, unfortunately.
Also, I'm hoping that as a hip-hop feminist that you're explaining to women your age that when a rapper uses the word 'bitch' or 'ho', that he is, indeed, talking about them, Ms. Mukhopadhyay. So many sistas fail to recognize that.
Good luck with your month at The Nation. You're going to meet some folks here that are going to remind you that the struggle for equality is far from over.
But then again, as a black feminist, the Obama/Clinton campaign has taught me that already.
Posted by edwriter at 03/10/2008 @ 7:38pm