Health Care Hoax Worse Than Balloon Boy

An attention grab that held millions of Americans transfixed. A story that seemed to be about life in the balance. It dominated the airwaves, the social networks, held Americans in its clutch. And then it turned out to have been nothing but a hoax. A play for attention that distracted the entire country.

Now that the Balloon Boy's story is blown, can we call out the health care hoax?

The anti-health care lobby is taking all our attention hostage and a nation's hopes (and votes) for quality health care are floating away.

If you're angry and feel played by the Heene family of Colorado, you'd better be furious at the private insurers.

If you want Richard Heene and his wife to be jailed and their kids taken into protective care -- you better be fighting for all Americans to be taken out of the custody of abusive wealth-insurance companies.

We know now that the Heenes were smart about how to manipulate the media in part because they'd starred in two episodes of Wife Swap. Cigna, Aetna, United Health own the news. They and their guns-for-hire lobbyists underwrite just about every pseudo-news show. Call it "News Swap." (Theirs for the real stuff.)

And right now, with their House Republican pals they're planning to stop a health care bill by spending the next three weeks arguing over a phony-facts study that claims that the Democrats' measure will be a bad deal for small businesses, senior citizens, and women and children,"

At least the empty balloon that the Heene's floated was harmless. The anti-health care lobby is taking us all for a ride. Where is the sheriff when you need him? And where are the felony charges?

The F Word is a regular commentary by Laura Flanders, the host of GRITtv which broadcasts weekdays on satellite TV (Dish Network Ch. 9415 Free Speech TV) on cable, and online at GRITtv.org and TheNation.com. Follow GRITtv or GRITlaura on Twitter.com.

Comments (58)

1. no more balloon boy!

   please.......

   Posted by frosty zoom at 10/20/2009 @ 09:35am

2. Wish our press had devoted as much time to investigating 9/11 as they did Balloon Boy. If Richard Heene were only prez.......

   12/2001

   QUESTION: One thing, Mr. President, is that you have no idea how much you've done for this country, and another thing is that how did you feel when you heard about the terrorist attack?

   BUSH: Well... (APPLAUSE)

   Thank you, Jordan (ph).

   Well, Jordan (ph), you're not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my chief of staff, Andy Card -- actually I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, "There's one terrible pilot." And I said, "It must have been a horrible accident."

   But I was whisked off there -- I didn't have much time to think about it, and I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my chief who was sitting over here walked in and said, "A second plane has hit the tower. America's under attack."

   Posted by OneVote at 10/20/2009 @ 10:01am

3. 01/2002

   Q What was the first thing that went through your head when you heard that a plane crashed into the first building? THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Well, I was sitting in a schoolhouse in Florida. I had gone down to tell my little brother what to do, and -- just kidding, Jeb. (Laughter.) And -- it's the mother in me. (Laughter.) Anyway, I was in the midst of learning about a reading program that works. I'm a big believer in basic education, and it starts with making sure every child learns to read. And therefore, we need to focus on the science of reading, not what may feel good or sound good when it comes to teaching children to read. (Applause.) I'm just getting a plug in for my reading initiative.

   Anyway, I was sitting there, and my Chief of Staff -- well, first of all, when we walked into the classroom, I had seen this plane fly into the first building. There was a TV set on. And you know, I thought it was pilot error and I was amazed that anybody could make such a terrible mistake. And something was wrong with the plane, or -- anyway, I'm sitting there, listening to the briefing, and Andy Card came and said, "America is under attack."

   Posted by OneVote at 10/20/2009 @ 10:02am

4. PRESIDENT: Ya' know, I was sitting there wondering, "dammit, Dick, couldn't ya have waited until I was done reading 'My Pet Goat'" -- it's one of my favourites, ya' know.

   Posted by frosty zoom at 10/20/2009 @ 10:39am

5. 'In the 35 years I've known George W. Bush, he's always had a book nearby. He plays up being a good ol' boy from Midland, Texas, but he was a history major at Yale and graduated from Harvard Business School. You don't make it through either unless you are a reader.'

   Karl Rove - HuffPost

   Posted by OneVote at 10/20/2009 @ 10:48am

6. no more balloon boy!

   nice rallying cry.

   but of course. the profiteering parasites LOVE folks like the heenes who use their kids for profit or let one fall down a well or something luridly shocking like that. sucks the attention of morons away from THEM, and anything that does that is A-OK with them.

   Posted by dexter666 at 10/20/2009 @ 10:54am

7. Ahhh, never let the facts get in the way of a good liberal rant . There is no anti health care lobby , but rather theyre against the bill in its current form . And who wouldnt fight against a plan whos goal is to drive you out of business (which by the way then senator Obama was recorded as saying on numerous occasions) was the ultimate goal of a public option .As for their "republican pals" they are simply doing what those people who voted them into office want , which last time I checked is the way a democratic form of government is suppose to work. On a personal note , ANY bill that Harry Reid is "negoiating " behind closed doors scares the hell out of me . I admire your passion Laura but get your facts straight dear.

   Posted by limoman at 10/20/2009 @ 11:02am

8. Where were the media "science guys" during the balloon flight -

   Size of helium balloon necessary to lift 50 lb. boy -

   No deformity of balloon due to load, and no apparent impact on flight -

   Pretty basic stuff.

   Just like why we need a bi-partisan healthcare bill, and why single pay off the table to start.

   Media mysteries....that always point to profit.

   Posted by OneVote at 10/20/2009 @ 11:02am

9. Size of helium balloon necessary to lift 50 lb. boy -

   No deformity of balloon due to load, and no apparent impact on flight -

   Pretty basic stuff.

   Posted by OneVote at 10/20/2009 @ 11:02am

   Exactly. Those were my thoughts as soon as I learned that it was a mylar/helium balloon.

   Posted by BlackFrancis at 10/20/2009 @ 11:16am

10. arrrgggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    NO MORE BALLOON BOY!!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/10/wall- street-drops-dem-donations.html

    Posted by frosty zoom at 10/20/2009 @ 11:26am

11. arrrgggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    NO MORE BALLOON BOY!!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/10/wall- street-drops-dem-donations.html

    Posted by frosty zoom at 10/20/2009 @ 11:26am

12. Baloon boy Hoax = ABSOLUTE TOTAL SUCCESS. Wow! Even though the Heenes may face some jail time, and their is 'talk' about taking their kids from em. This stunt has earned them well over their 15min quota. If Blago can score a reality show for being scum, well the Heenes are just gonna be soaring on their baloon into the tornado of reality series off of this one.

    As for Healthcare... We need a real bill that doesn't just mandate everyone to buy insurance without offering affordability and full coverage.

    Posted by Extraneous at 10/20/2009 @ 11:29am

13. i give up....

    BALLOON BOY FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 10/20/2009 @ 11:45am

14. BALLOON BOY FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 10/20/2009 @ 11:45am | ignore this person | warn this person

    Frosty - Balloon Boy = Tim Geithner;

    Hoping for a safe landing.....lol......

    Posted by OneVote at 10/20/2009 @ 11:48am

15. helicopter ben = BUBBLE BOY!

    now, why isn't that on every channel?

    stupid humans.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 10/20/2009 @ 11:50am

16. Exactly. Those were my thoughts as soon as I learned that it was a mylar/helium balloon.

    Posted by BlackFrancis at 10/20/2009 @ 11:16am | ignore this person | warn this person

    Instead we get how long can the boy go without suffering hypothermia - adding to the whole peril and anxiety...lol.... 'the higher you go, the cooler the atmoshpere, and likely the maximum height of the baloon is 10,000 feet, and at that altitude, it is difficult to get breathe and get sufficient oxygen, but likely the balloon won't be able to exceed 10,000 feet as gases condense at they cool................

    Lots of science - but no science pointing to improbability to begin with.

    Fascinating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Posted by OneVote at 10/20/2009 @ 11:55am

17. Posted by limoman at 10/20/2009 @ 11:02am | ignore this person | warn this person

    i like the way the right laces lies with truth, focuses on aspects which support your position, and either ignores or distorts facts which detract from your position.

    such is the ONLY way they can argue their position, so i respect that.

    "There is no anti health care lobby , but rather theyre against the bill in its current form . And who wouldnt fight against a plan whos goal is to drive you out of business (which by the way then senator Obama was recorded as saying on numerous occasions) was the ultimate goal of a public option"

    well...yes there is an anti health care lobby. it consists of the private insurance companies' paid lobbyists. and are they fighting to save their asses?

    OF COURSE THEY ARE!!!!

    they KNOW the wickedness for which they have been directly responsible for DECADES and are scared shitless that a critical mass of marching morons are awakening and seeing the ugly, ugly TRUTH.

    i wonder what nazi concentration camp guards and officers were feeling when patton forced the nearby townsfolk to clean up the dead bodies at their friendly nearby concentration camp.

    the truth is that if we had adopted a british or canadian style decades ago we would have saved uncounted buzillions of $$$$, and avoided the unnecessary sufering and untimely deaths of millions for decades.

    and i blame the slaves of the parasites (nearly 100% of the republican party and far to many slimey baucuses of the dems).

    i and millions of other americans could care less what happens to the health insurance pirates. they will likely never pay for their crimes against humanity...

    Posted by dexter666 at 10/20/2009 @ 11:57am

18. stupid humans.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 10/20/2009 @ 11:50am | ignore this person | warn this person

    keep printing money and keep interest rates at zero - huff and puff - the balloon will fly once again -

    Posted by OneVote at 10/20/2009 @ 11:59am

19. folks,

    please, please, please watch this tonight:

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/

    Posted by frosty zoom at 10/20/2009 @ 12:15pm

20. "Our economy is so completely fucked, the rich are running out of things to steal."

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/30481512 /wall_streets_naked_swindle/2

    Posted by frosty zoom at 10/20/2009 @ 12:21pm

21. frosty, I will be watching the "Warning" tonight, frontline is one of the best shows evar.

    Posted by Denise29 at 10/20/2009 @ 12:22pm

22. "There is no anti health care lobby "

    and this is from the same person who said this:

    "Ahhh, never let the facts get in the way of a good liberal rant"

    Posted by darladoon at 10/20/2009 @ 12:30pm

23. I don't appreciate the antics of 'balloonboy' and his family nor do I appreciate the antics of the tax and spend Congress. I'm very happy with my health care insurance and have no use for government run health care unless it provides for the following:

    1. Tort Reform

    2. Strengthening of Medicare and Medicaid

    3. Elimination of insurance companies denial of service because of 'prior condition.'

    4. Voluntary catastrophic illness coverage for anyone who wants it at a low monthly or yearly premium.

    Any bill presented without the inclusion of these four conditions should be voted down.

    Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/20/2009 @ 12:31pm

24. gunslinger1:

    why not just have everybody pay into a central fund and pay the doctors and hospitals from that?

    oh, yeah, too simple.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 10/20/2009 @ 12:36pm

25. Posted by frosty zoom at 10/20/2009 @ 12:15pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    looks good.

    but nobody, not even GOD HISSELF, could have told those history illiterate ideologues they were chugging down the well trod road to economic disaster.

    ms. rand told them all they needed to know. she told them what they wanted to hear - that they were smart, superior demigods who could do no wrong as long as they enriched themselves and that making money at any cost was a self affirming process of earthly salvation.

    and but for a precious few who paid attention in history class during the great depression or economics, who devoted some percentage of their brains to something beyond their personal lives or absurd pop cultural or recreational mental masturbation, the great mass of marching morons gulped that ideological poison down like it was mana.

    so the crash was inevitable and inexorable. the ONLY way to get suicidally voting marching morons to cease voting for their own destruction...was to crash and burn so that the truth was unavoidable.

    but although i blame and share some responsibility with all others...

    i gotta hold an especial revulsion to the ivey league jackasses who should have known better, but whose stupid ideology enabled otherwise reasonably intelligent people to act and speak stupidly and irresponsibly. i gotta reserve special disgust fro the thousands of mercenary minds who have busily toiled at satano-aynrando anarcho-libertarian lie factories like the heritage foundation, the cato institute, and all the other fake scholarly propaganda mills for years to sow self serving lies the result of which is the destruction of widespread prosperity.

    Posted by dexter666 at 10/20/2009 @ 12:42pm

26. 'To the rest of the world, the brazenness of the theft -- coupled with the conspicuousness of the government's inaction -- clearly demonstrates that the American capital markets are a crime in progress. To those of us who actually live here, however, the news is even worse. We're in a place we haven't been since the Depression: Our economy is so completely fucked, the rich are running out of things to steal.'

    Matt Taibbi -

    Cash sitting in money markets, checking accounts, savings accounts, low-yield fixed income, etc.......the target.

    Devalue the dollar, create an environment where cash is trash, coax money off the sidelines into bullshit liquidity bubbles like stocks and real estate, and whammo - you are going to hear that sucking sound all over again.

    Looked at gas prices lately? Remember, nearly 30% of the price is due to commodity traders that Bama was supposed to go after. They are back, and derivatives and credit default swaps are now being traded by ICE trading platform which is considered to be a member of The Federal Reserve. The major traders -you guessed it.....bailout recipients.

    I'll be expecting Taibbi to be doing an about face on 9/11 any day now. The more he digs and learns, the more his illusions are being stripped away. His anger and frustration are growing markedly.

    The underpinnings of the premise that "they would never do that" are falling one by one.

    Posted by OneVote at 10/20/2009 @ 12:56pm

27. "1. Tort Reform"

    estimated savings from the implementation of tort reform?

    5-10 billion.

    and let's keep in mind that tort reform has been implemented in several states, and hasn't lowered the cost of health insurance premiums. in fact, in georgia and texas, premiums have gone up. california, too.

    Posted by darladoon at 10/20/2009 @ 1:01pm

28. But the cons will keep screaming "tort reform! Tort reform!"

    Posted by BlackFrancis at 10/20/2009 @ 1:04pm

29. yes...tort reform IS an eternal obfuscating smoke screen.

    "its them damned lawyers!"

    yeah, easy target, non-issue in the big picture...

    Posted by dexter666 at 10/20/2009 @ 1:29pm

30. gingrich said today that the goal is to *kill* any healthcare reform currently in the congress.

    even though those reforms are incredibly generous to insurance companies, wall street, etc.

    talk about irony

    Posted by darladoon at 10/20/2009 @ 1:37pm

31. gingrich said today that the goal is to *kill* any healthcare reform currently in the congress.

    even though those reforms are incredibly generous to insurance companies, wall street, etc.

    talk about irony

    Posted by darladoon at 10/20/2009 @ 1:37pm

32. Ahhh, never let the facts get in the way of a good liberal rant . There is no anti health care lobby , but rather theyre against the bill in its current form .

    Posted by limoman at 10/20/2009 @ 11:02am

    There are millions spent by the health insurance industry on lobbyists who seek to keep health reform from occurring, period. They are against ANY bill in any form at all.

    So whatever facts you think you have are just fantasy, probably inspired by talk show 'infotainment'.

    56 to 60 percent of Fox news listeners think that Al Qaeda had a connection to Saddam Hussein, which is totally incorrect. So, clearly, people just believe what they want to believe if it bolsters their mean spirited outlook on life.

    Posted by ficheye at 10/20/2009 @ 1:40pm

33. 45,000 deaths per year in the US for lack of health insurance. 2,993 Americans died in the 9/11 attack. Trillions of dollars have been spent on the "War on Terror" while the real terrorists of the health insurance industry are making millions in rewards and bounces for excluding and denying health coverage for more and more Americans. Meanwhile, our, best money can buy Congress, is taking bribes from the same insurance terrorists to foil any real healthcare reforms, and thus more Americans die.

    The citizens of the banana republic would have been more indignant had this glaring injustice and corruption taken place in the banana republic. The balloon boy received more attention from the mainstream media, than the plight of the uninsured. cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/18/deaths. health.insurance/index.html

    Posted by CripThink at 10/20/2009 @ 1:42pm

34. <And right now, with their House Republican pals they're planning to stop a health care bill by spending the next three weeks arguing over a phony-facts study that claims that the Democrats' measure will be a bad deal for small businesses, senior citizens, and women and children,">

    Perhaps ms flanders, you would seem more informed if you knew how to count.

    The Republicans in the House have NO WAY to halt legislation. They do not have sufficient votes.

    Posted by antisocialist at 10/20/2009 @ 2:13pm

35. Posted by CripThink at 10/20/2009 @ 1:42pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Here is another "balloon boy" hoax - "Israel is our good friend and ally."

    'WASHINGTON – A scientist who allegedly tried to sell classified secrets to Israel had worked on the U.S. government's Star Wars missile shield program, and the Justice Department declared Tuesday that he had tried to share some of the nation's most guarded secrets.

    Arrested in an FBI sting operation, Stewart David Nozette was jailed without bond and accused in a criminal complaint of two counts of attempting to communicate, deliver and transmit classified information.

    A former colleague of Nozette says the scientist worked on the Reagan administration's Star Wars missile shield program.

    In an interview, Scott Hubbard said that a scientist arrested in an FBI sting, Stewart David Nozette, was primarily a technical defense expert working on the Reagan-era effort formally named the Strategic Defense Initiative.'

    Wonder how much media attention this story is going to get? (rhetorical question of course)

    Posted by OneVote at 10/20/2009 @ 2:13pm

36. i gotta hold an especial revulsion to the ivey league jackasses who should have known better, but whose stupid ideology enabled otherwise reasonably intelligent people to act and speak stupidly and irresponsibly. i gotta reserve special disgust fro the thousands of mercenary minds who have busily toiled at satano-aynrando anarcho-libertarian lie factories like the heritage foundation, the cato institute, and all the other fake scholarly propaganda mills for years to sow self serving lies the result of which is the destruction of widespread prosperity.

    Posted by dexter666 at 10/20/2009 @ 12:42pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    because they are destroyers of the sacred body of work that is the sum total of all the sacrifices of millions of americans for over two centuries. they are blasphemers who have dishonored the holy and unholy monumental sacrifices of both victim and victimizer - they have desecrated the temple of our ancestors, our nation, by their gluttony and slothful ignorance, to say nothing of blind greed.

    greenspan holds a special spot in my heart. i think he's a decent enough guy, but his ideology is poisonous, and the damage he did monumental. i almost feel sorry for him in the big picture. i also respect his wife.

    Posted by dexter666 at 10/20/2009 @ 2:41pm

37. The confusion is that opposing government over-involvement in health care is not being "against health care." Freeing up to make a better system without the warping burden of most of the counter-productive is "pro-people." Too much of what passes for analysis here is based on misunderstanding and lack of the motivation of the opposition forces. Most companies and individuals working in these fields have real concern for the public. But, unlike government, they must be realistic about cost/benefit ratios and getting enuf cash flow to survive. My best example is the need of doctors to generate the money to run their practices If the Medicare plan squeezes them too much, they will not provide services for it.

    Posted by balataf at 10/20/2009 @ 2:54pm

38. Wonder how much media attention this story is going to get? (rhetorical question of course)

    Posted by OneVote at 10/20/2009 @ 2:13pm

    Not much; the dog will never bite his tail. You can bet your money that the Justice Department will drop all charges, as was the case with Steven Rosen and Keith Weissman. You see, Obama's plate is so full right now, he can't take on AIPAC. More powerful and whiter Presidents have tried before and failed miserably (as was the case the single term presidents Carter and G. H. Bush). The Zionists are the kingmakers in Washington and our Congress is another Israeli occupied territory.

    Posted by CripThink at 10/20/2009 @ 2:58pm

39. "But, unlike government, they must be realistic about cost/benefit ratios and getting enuf cash flow to survive"

    perhaps that's part of the problem?

    Posted by darladoon at 10/20/2009 @ 2:59pm

40. Keep printing money and keep interest rates at zero - huff and puff - the balloon will fly once again –

    Posted by OneVote at 10/20/2009 @ 11:59am

    Any wonder that the coffers of Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, etc… are brimming with cash again. After rewarding them with the hefty bailout packages, we allowed them to borrow our tax dollar at near zero percent (all this happened after they committed the greatest heist of the century through their derivatives and credit default swap schemes). Now, they can take the zero percent gift from the Fed and loan it back to Joe-Six-Pack at 30%.

    Posted by CripThink at 10/20/2009 @ 3:10pm

41. Now, they can take the zero percent gift from the Fed and loan it back to Joe-Six-Pack at 30%.

    Posted by CripThink at 10/20/2009 @ 3:10pm

    joe six pack ain't gettin' no loan.

    jpgoldmorgansacks makes their "money" shuffling "money" on wall street.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 10/20/2009 @ 3:36pm

42. joe six pack ain't gettin' no loan.

    jpgoldmorgansacks makes their "money" shuffling "money" on wall street.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 10/20/2009 @ 3:36pm

    Joe-Six-Pack's interest rates on his credit cards have been increased to 30% in many instances.

    Goldman Sacks and JP Morgan have converted status from investment firms to commercial banks, just to take advantage of the bailout money and the 0% Fed money.

    If you just give up your obsession with the balloon boy and read some real news.

    Posted by CripThink at 10/20/2009 @ 3:48pm

43. You know, it would be easy to dispell all of this misinformation about the health reform proposals. Just make sure the bill is available online 72 hours before it is to be voted on. That way the people can see it for themselves and know the truth.

    It would be nice. Except that one political party doesn't want that to happen.

    They want to complain about the public being misinformed and lied to, but they are not interested in doing one thing that would eliminate that problem.

    Wonder why that is?

    Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/20/2009 @ 4:02pm

44. The Zionists are the kingmakers in Washington and our Congress is another Israeli occupied territory.

    Posted by CripThink at 10/20/2009 @ 2:58pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    I'll be surprised if this one ever gets prosecuted too. Just unbelievable. The United States of Israel.

    I'll bet he gets an earful tonight from the Zionist mafia. Bama spoke to the FBI today....no word of commendation to the FBI on their counterespionage success - just congrats on the FBI's efforts against the terrorist threats here at home (read Muslim terrorists).

    'President Obama is hosting a swanky fundraiser at the Mandarin Oriental in New York tonight -- and about a third of the 200 Democratic donors attending will be from Wall Street. Each donor is paying the legal maximum of $30,400.'

    'change you can believe in'

    Posted by OneVote at 10/20/2009 @ 4:15pm

45. Now, they can take the zero percent gift from the Fed and loan it back to Joe-Six-Pack at 30%.

    Posted by CripThink at 10/20/2009 @ 3:10pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    The bailout that just keeps on giving.

    Saw today where California is suing State Street Bank for currency exchange ripoff. Banks are riping off the little folks as well on currency exchanges by hiding fees and pretending that domestic US Dollar tranfers to US Dollar deposit in foreign banks are not an option. In other words, your domestic bank gets to pocket the exorbitant exchange fee. Credit card fees for responsible behavior are already being institued by the cartel.

    You would think that the bankers would be grateful to the US taxpayer?

    Wrong.

    Posted by OneVote at 10/20/2009 @ 4:35pm

46. I don't understand why people on this thread, and others on the Nation, keep bringing up Ayn Rand? Do they put her in the same categorie as Karl Marx?

    Posted by marilynm at 10/20/2009 @ 5:26pm

47. ms. rand told them all they needed to know. she told them what they wanted to hear - that they were smart, superior demigods who could do no wrong as long as they enriched themselves and that making money at any cost was a self affirming process of earthly salvation....

    Posted by dexter666 at 10/20/2009 @ 12:42pm

    And while Hank Reardon and Dagny Taggert were pursuing their own rational self-interest, the love of producing Reardon steel and running Taggert Transcontinental Railroad, how many jobs did they provide?

    Ever thought those who "were smart, superior demigods who could do no wrong" are the main job creators? Isn't it a given that they do not fear failure but rather not even trying? Heck, maybe even.........YOU....could be the next Reardon or Taggert?

    Posted by Happy at 10/20/2009 @ 6:14pm

48. I don't understand why people on this thread, and others on the Nation, keep bringing up Ayn Rand? Do they put her in the same categorie as Karl Marx?

    Posted by marilynm at 10/20/2009 @ 5:26pm

    Perhaps you ought to read Ms. Rand!

    Posted by Happy at 10/20/2009 @ 6:16pm

49. No, I wouldn't put Rand in the same category as Marx. For a number of reasons.

    The problems with Rand's books and characters is that the "heros" in her novels are not often seen in real life. They do not compromise their ideological purity. Also, I think Rand had some weird notions about sex and relationships between men and women. For example, Dagny should've been with Hank Reardon from start to finish. In real life, Reardon would've kicked Galt's ass.

    But I digress...

    The other problem with Rand's books (actually, it is our problem) is that her villians ARE highly visible in the real world. For example, when Obama misrepresented what the President of John Deere said about a stimulus bill to make it look like the guy was endorsing Obama's plan? That was straight from Atlas Shrugged.

    The problem with Karl Marx is that he didn't have any proof humanity would become this utopianist, altuistic culture. It was as realistic and believeable as Scientology. The shame is that so many people had to die in order to find this out. The lesson is to instantly disregard or ignore anything that reeks of utopianist drivel.

    Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/20/2009 @ 6:33pm

50. The problems with Rand's books and characters is that the "heros" in her novels are not often seen in real life....

    Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/20/2009 @ 6:33pm

    I'm a huge fan of hers and need to jump in here when a critique, from a fellow Rand reader, is off base.

    Isn't it true that the "heros" of most novels, plays, whatever "are not often seen in real life"? I mean, how many Rambos could there be? Jack Ryans? Harry Potter? Ian Fleming's James Bond? Big Jake?

    Posted by Happy at 10/20/2009 @ 6:46pm

51. yeah, seriously! why doesn't anita dunn quote roger ailes quoting ayn rand, and say, "look! he's an ayn rand lover! he's a capitalist! see?!"

    that would be a CLASSIC rebuttal for dunn.

    Posted by darladoon at 10/21/2009 @ 12:57am

52. Hey there, I have read Ayn Rand, that is why I am so surprised...

    Posted by marilynm at 10/21/2009 @ 03:16am

53. Can't quite dig Ayn Rand, Leni Riefenstahl was a better artist, less idealogue, not so preachy and didactic. Did you see her stuff by any chance? Same kind of message, not too subtle, but interesting in a certain context. I know it is harder to take metaphoric information visually but one feels less like one is being hammered on the head.

    Posted by marilynm at 10/21/2009 @ 03:20am

54. Posted by Happy at 10/20/2009 @ 6:46pm

    Hey Happ! Most people got over their infatuation with Ayn Rand after college. But I have to admit that sort of pie in the sky Objectivist philosophy would probably appeal to automatons like you who never grew up..

    Posted by chaoszen at 10/21/2009 @ 06:21am

55. The Yes Men baffoon the Chamber of Commerce on climate change - now that's a story.

    Cover that Nation.

    Posted by LarryB at 10/21/2009 @ 08:48am

56. Isn't it true that the "heros" of most novels, plays, whatever "are not often seen in real life"? I mean, how many Rambos could there be? Jack Ryans? Harry Potter? Ian Fleming's James Bond? Big Jake?

    Posted by Happy at 10/20/2009 @ 6:46pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    Alan Greenspan - a slavish devotee of Rand who admitted that he (and Rand) were wrong. "The Wizard" (revised to Wizard of Oz)is Greenspan's swan song.

    Posted by OneVote at 10/21/2009 @ 09:34am

57. Alan Greenspan - a slavish devotee of Rand who admitted that he (and Rand) were wrong. "The Wizard" (revised to Wizard of Oz)is Greenspan's swan song.

    Posted by OneVote at 10/21/2009 @ 09:34am

    Rand was not Godess and I seriously doubt all of her fans agree w/all of her views; certainly not I.

    I won't volunteer areas of disagreements I have w/her, but I totally buy her fundamental principles of rational self-interest & superiority of capitalism.....just as I buy 100% into the GOP's fundamental principles of individual responsibility & liberty, which are almost a perfect match w/Rand's main principles.

    Posted by Happy at 10/21/2009 @ 09:56am

58. Can't quite dig Ayn Rand, Leni Riefenstahl was a better artist, less idealogue, not so preachy and didactic. Did you see her stuff by any chance?

    Posted by marilynm at 10/21/2009 @ 03:20am

    No, to be honest, I've never heard of Leni. I am a late-bloomer on reading literature.....only in the past 10 years or so. Before for decades, I read almost exclusively business publications there wasn't too much new knowledge to be gained.

    Posted by Happy at 10/21/2009 @ 09:59am