Did Obama Deserve the Nobel Peace Prize?

My reaction to Barack Obama's Nobel Peace Prize elicited some decidedly "un-peaceful" responses from my friends and followers on social networking and blog sites.

As readers here at The Notion can attest -whether with glee or disdain-I have been an ardent supporter of President Obama. Despite some disagreements, I have urged the left to view this administration as an opportunity for genuine change and to regard it as friendly to progressive aims. But my response to the Nobel Peace Prize announcement was not particularly celebratory.

Yesterday I indulged in some Nobel Prize humor on Twitter. "Maybe Obama was awarded the NPP because he didn't smack Joe Wilson." I also made a joke on Politico.com "Maybe Kanye West will show up and grab the mic in protest."

I criticized the idea of awarding a Nobel Peace Prize to a president whose short presidency has included drone attacks with devastating civilian causalities, the escalation of the war in Afghanistan, and a painfully slow response to the basic human rights issues facing LGBT communities. I respect the President's accomplishments in diplomacy but believed these issues were relevant to assessing his record on peace.

The criticisms were not meant as a sweeping indictment of President Obama's administration, nor do they indicate my faltering support. I was using the occasion of the Nobel Peace Prize award to ask what the international community recognizes as indicative of a broad commitment to peace.

I was stunned by the swift and angry responses from dozens of readers, followers, and friends. Some suggested I was a "hater." Others felt my jovial tone was disrespectful of the President. Several fretted that conservatives would justify further attacks on President Obama using my words. I have disagreed with and criticized Obama as both a candidate and president before, but I have never elicited this kind of anxiety from readers.

In these responses, I detected a very particular American racial anxiety. Let's call it the "Affirmative Action Dilemma." Beginning in the 1980s, conservatives, led by African American thinkers like Shelby Steele and Thomas Sowell, began to argue that affirmative action has a deleterious psychological impact on African Americans. Affirmative action, they lamented, leads black people to always wonder if their success is real, deserved, and meritorious, or simply illusory, unearned, and political. Yesterday's anxiety about my critique of the Nobel Peace Prize Award appeared to echo these worries. Some felt that by raising my disagreement I was implying President Obama did not deserve the prize, and that politics, not merit, was responsible for the committee's decision.

I heard the unspoken Affirmative Action Dilemma lurking. "Please professor, don't make them think we have things we didn't earn"

Generally the response to affirmative action anxiety is to list all of the individual's accomplishments and thereby prove the individual is actually worthy of the award or position. Most Obama faithful pursued this tactic yesterday. Many demanded that I tune into The Rachel Maddow Show and several sent me lists of all President Obama's accomplishments in the area of diplomacy. Uh...ok, but that strategy is limited. (Particularly because it doesn't really negate the whole two wars, drone attacks thing)

I think a more effective counter to the Affirmative Action Dilemma is a little honesty about the wages of whiteness.

I am an affirmative action baby (born in 1973), and I have never felt any dilemma about the policy. I did not sit in my college classroom fretting about whether my white peers thought I deserved to be studying beside them. I have never lost a night of sleep worrying about my colleagues who regard my tenured position at Princeton University as a policy decision, rather than a scholarly accomplishment. This is not because I am so sure of my personal worthiness- that ebbs and flows-rather my general lack of affirmative action anxiety is derived from my clear sense of the continuing reality of white privilege.

White privilege is the bundle of unearned advantages accessible to white people in America. White privilege is not equivalent to racial prejudice. All whites share certain element of racial privilege regardless of their political or racial views. This does not mean that life is perfect for all white people. I was raised by a single, white mother, so I certainly know that white American face real barriers and struggles based on class, opportunity, gender, education, sexuality, and other cross-cutting identities. But white privilege exists and has powerful consequences. This does not mean that race is more important than socioeconomic class. It does mean that in the United States there is a preferential option for whiteness, and this preference means racial privilege produces a certain wage of whiteness.

Simply put, not everything that white people have was earned by merit. Some was, some was not. Some of the wealth, access, prizes, goodies, and political power currently held by white people are ill gotten gains from centuries of accumulated white privilege. Knowing this makes me a lot more relaxed about having to prove that I "deserve" every success, acknowledgement, or position I have.

I encourage my friends and readers to calm down a little about having to prove Obama deserved the Nobel Peace Prize. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. The point is that he has it now. I, for one, have been doing a little "impeach that suckers" dance ever since I heard. This one is in the history books. No turning back.

Rather than give into the racial anxiety to prove the President's worthiness let's celebrate that President Obama responded to the prize with humility and grace.

"I will accept this award as a call to action, a call for all nations and all peoples to confront the common challenges of the 21st century. These challenges won't all be met during my presidency, or even my lifetime. But I know these challenges can be met so long as it's recognized that they will not be met by one person or one nation alone."

This is an instructive response for everyone who experiences the benefits of privilege and access. Imagine how different our world would be if, instead of proving that we deserved our prizes and positions, we chose to earn them through the service we offer our fellow man.

Comments (173)

1. Here's what I wrote after voting in the NATION's poll:

   The Nobel Peace Prize committee needs to add a new category: the dishonorable mention, or "Nobel Peace Penalty."

   Then we might have seen George W. Bush and Dick Cheney taking the Peace Penalty, perhaps several years in a row. Indeed, to my mind, this is exactly what the Norwegians are trying to express now, retroactively and indirectly, by bestowing the Peace Prize upon a dithering, centrist Democrat whose most salient virtue is that he is Not Bush.

   (Yes, I heard the rumor that President Bush was actually seriously considered for the Peace Prize a few years ago. If he had won it, maybe that would have put the meaning of this year's prize properly in perspective. And we mustn't forget Kissinger, as "hsansom" has helpfully reminded us.)

   This year's Nobel Peace Prize should have been awarded to somebody much more deserving, such as the Colombian Senator Piedad Cordoba or the Afghan physician and human rights activist Sima Samar, who were runners-up this year.

   Posted by JakobFabian at 10/10/2009 @ 12:28pm

2. 'Some suggested I was a "hater."'

   Expositional: Meant to demonstrate that the author hangs out in "da hood," and not just in academia.

   That's too bad for the hood. It could use some real intellectuals. How many black lives will be destroyed by the racialist mindset while you do your little "I'm a sista too" charade?

   'I, for one, have been doing a little "impeach that suckers" dance ever since I heard.'

   I bet you have.

   Posted by gangpapist at 10/10/2009 @ 12:30pm

3. Didn't we get the same collective groan from the far right when Gore got his? Granted he's been around a bit longer, but that really didn't matter did it.

   I think Grayson gets it.

   And until there's a Nobel honoring best blood sucking tick, new con repubs will feel ever slighted from even having the right DNA for the competition.

   Posted by hsuBfools at 10/10/2009 @ 12:30pm

4. I think they gave Obama the prize as a push in the direction of peace, wishful thinking? Probably, but we can always hope.

   Posted by Denise29 at 10/10/2009 @ 12:33pm

5. 'Beginning in the 1980s, conservatives, led by African American thinkers like Shelby Steele and Thomas Sowell, began to argue that affirmative action has a deleterious psychological impact on African Americans. Affirmative action, they lamented, leads black people to always wonder if their success is real, deserved, and meritorious, or simply illusory, unearned, and political. '

   Ah, if only the "good old days" would return.

   You know: the days before Affirmative Action, when African-Americans never had to wonder whether their success was "real, deserved, and meritorious, or simply illusory, unearned, and political."

   No, in the "good old days," African-Americans only had to wonder whether their LACK of success in comparison to the "white standard" was real and due to their own personal lack of merit, or perhaps due to pure racism.

   Which is better: to HAVE success and to worry about whether you deserve it, or to LACK success and to worry about whether you deserve it?

   Affirmative Action works. It works by neutralizing the effect of racism, which obviously still exists and is still in need of a remedy. Professor Harris-Lacewell is right about white privilege, and the research backs her up.

   Any successful person who is HONEST will ALWAYS tell you that nothing is ever purely earned. There is always the luck factor: being in the right place at the right time, having had a stable childhood and a good education, having enjoyed good health, having supportive colleagues, or being well-adapted to the work environment in which you happen to find yourself.

   Posted by JakobFabian at 10/10/2009 @ 12:44pm

6. MELISSA?

   Not you TOO!

   Obama DESERVES the peace prize because he has reset American foreign policy so America is now a responsible member of the world community, and not some cowboy nation that goes willy-nilly into other countries with the hope of "taking" their natural resources.

   While Afghanistan is still a case in progress, there is no doubt that Obama is asking the RIGHT questions neglected by Bush, including asking Afghanis what would be best for them as we transition from war to peace keeping and nation building there.

   This Obama bashing on the left only serves the right, and it is time for us to grow up and govern in a sustainable way that extends progressive gains for several generations to come.

   Obama is NOT a leftest dictator. If some on the left thinks he has to be in order to govern America, then they really are not paying attention to history or what practically has to happen to enact progressive policy.

   Like Obama says, "we did not get here overnight", and therefore change is like turning around a ship liner....you gradually slow it down, and then enter into a wide turn, and THEN move in a different direction.

   Your lack of patience is ASTOUNDING!

   Posted by Metteyya at 10/10/2009 @ 12:56pm

7. " I respect the President's accomplishments in diplomacy but believed these issues were relevant to assessing his record on peace"

   What accomplishments in diplomacy?

   What is his record on peace? My record on peace is I am all for it, unless you disturb my peace...then I am against you.

   Obama was on the job for 11 days...most people on a new job for 11 days(5 if you include only weekdays and 2 weekends, which include inagauration cerimonys and partys..is 2 actual days of work, when introductorys and things like finding the bathrooms and how the phone works..leaves...1 day?

   He received the award for being..black?

   Or was it to influence his policys because he is easily influenced by those who "put" him there...example?

   " Olympic sacrifice trip..."

   Posted by YourJomamma at 10/10/2009 @ 12:58pm

8. "This Obama bashing on the left only serves the right"

   oh, please! there are legitimate criticisms emanating from the left, especially the argument that obama's continuation of the bush policy of indefinite detention has not upheld any general definition of a peace-maker.

   Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 1:01pm

9. Well said. If you want to get specific, almost every white ceo, most white mba's, Wall St. speculators, most banksters, all politicians and half of Corporate America don't deserve one tenth of what they have. We used to be a country founded on work, usually by slaves or immigrants, but nowadays we can't even claim that much. Our manufacturing is gone, agriculture drying up, our high-tech sector is marginal at best, our finances are a pathetic joke in the eyes of the world who are scrambling to mitigate their losses and our educational system is among the worst in the industrialized world. Still, if you want to talk about ill-gotten gains, I think you need to talk about a labor problem and a how-not-to-finance-and-reward labor problem, not a race problem.

   Then of course, you could get into the issue of out-of-control privilege for CERTAIN whites who cause our Middle-East wars and rape our financial system. Then you would REALLY start to incur the wrath of the media, who do everything they can to maintain and promote this blatantly racist power structure.

   Just trying to say that this is a much larger issue than black-white relations.

   Posted by DejaVu at 10/10/2009 @ 1:03pm

10. I answer this article like I answered a lot of other comments made by some progressives. To use the things not done by a Nobel Peace Prize winner as proof of being undeserving seems unfair. We can use that against any winner of any year. It only provides us an opportunity to chastise a person or president to see things our way. As an African American man, a fan of history and as someone who grew up in the harsh reality of the US neighborhood, I do not share the concerns of some about the escalation in Afghanistan. I desire justice as well as peace. Peace for the sake of peace is not true peace. My ancestors gain the right to be free through means of war. And yes, the peaceful protests of the 60's help us be equal in the eyes of the law but it was the bloodshed of our ancestors that freed us from bondage. So as I would crave peace, Baruch Spinoza said Peace is not the absence of war; it is a virtue; a state of mind; a disposition for benevolence; confidence; and justice. Dorothy Thompson once said They have not wanted Peace at all; they have wanted to be spared war -- as though the absence of war was the same as peace.

    Posted by Righteousisright at 10/10/2009 @ 1:06pm

11. Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 1:01pm

    Nearly ALL of the criticisms I have seen have concerned the PACE of reform (it has been LESS than one year), or questions concerning pragmatism of what can practically be passed in the current political climate.

    BOTH of these kinds of criticisms are NOT valid, as they don't concern what Obama would LIKE to do, only what he can do. The critics on the left have become like the impatient child whining on the floor because they only have two toys to play with rather than three.

    It really is absurd!

    It has be 30 years since the Reagan Revolution. To undue this, it will take at least 8 years, and perhaps more.

    THINK before you criticize!

    Posted by Metteyya at 10/10/2009 @ 1:12pm

12. This is a most unfortunate choice of a nobel peace prize recipient. Prior recipients have suffered long and made significant lifetime achievements of peaceful contributions. The truth is that he recieved the award because he is Black. There is no other justification. He is Black and he is Hopeful. That plus 5$ may get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

    This demeans all accomplishments by other Black people. Suppose your doctor is Black. Is he or she truly qualified, or was the award of a medical degree made because of affirmative action? Can you trust this doctor with your life? How about the airline pilot, or the engineer?

    By the way, the prize is awarded based upon accomplishements before the cutoff, which I believe is before February of 2009. President Obama accomplished even less in that period.

    The nobel prize being awarded to President Obama may accomplish the laudable objective of ending affirmative action, and removing afirmative action as an impediment to the recognition of real accomplishment by Black people.

    Posted by fairness at 10/10/2009 @ 1:20pm

13. Obama was on the job for 11 days...

    Posted by YourJomamma at 10/10/2009 @ 12:58pm

    Aren't nearly all Nobel award recipients, percentage wise, not US presidents with completed records?

    Mostly they're for the direction of the attempt and goal.

    If one does not need affirmative action it's simpler ( but rare) to blame it if hard work itself doesn't bare extra fruit.

    But more often than not it's blamed by those not needing affirmative action projecting their own hardly work ethic.

    Would new con repubs complain if there were a Nobel affirmative action for them?

    Oh, but no need, just wait-- next video of a fake hooker and pimp is filming on a flight to Oslo as I type...

    Posted by hsuBfools at 10/10/2009 @ 1:31pm

14. Posted by fairness at 10/10/2009 @ 1:20pm

    It really is unfortunate that MELISSA-HARRIS-LACEWELL - of all people - has spawned such an unhelpful discussion on affirmative action.

    Whites ENSLAVED blacks and LEGALLY DISCRIMINATED against them for hundreds of years! THIS is why we have affirmative action. Period.

    The legacy of this slavery and discrimination are present today, despite Obama's election. How many black professors do you see on campus? What about black venture capitalist of investment bankers? What about doctors? What about geologists? Rocket scientists? The list goes on and on.

    Obama may have been a beneficiary of affirmative action, but he is also the poster child for why it works. It is not HOW you got in to college, your first job, or any other opportunity or honor - it is what do you do with the opportunity once you get it?

    Obama has shown throughout his history that his focus is on taking full advantage of opportunities presented to him rather than engaging in self-doubt about how he got the opportunity.

    I think others on this board, including MELISSA, can learn from Obama's example and use this to inspire black people rather than cause them to doubt themselves.

    Posted by Metteyya at 10/10/2009 @ 1:35pm

15. "THINK before you criticize!"

    metteya, reagan didn't initiate the practice of indefinite detention, george w. bush did. so, to undue this practice would not require a massive undertaking.

    and please, do tell me how my criticism of indefinite detention demonstrates of lack of thinking.

    there is no shield around obama. he is as vulnerable to criticism as anyone. and my pinpointing of this awful, inhumane practice (indefinite detention) does not mean that i'm racist, un-thinking, or naive. it just means that:

    a) i think indefinite detention is seriously wrong

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 1:36pm

16. ..but it was the bloodshed of our ancestors that freed us from bondage. So as I would crave peace, Baruch Spinoza said Peace is not the absence of war; it is a virtue; a state of mind; a disposition for benevolence; confidence; and justice. Dorothy Thompson once said They have not wanted Peace at all; they have wanted to be spared war -- as though the absence of war was the same as peace.

    Posted by Righteousisright at 10/10/2009 @

    And many of our ancestors shed blood, including mine...fighting for the North.

    And I agree..the absence of war is not the same as peace.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 10/10/2009 @ 1:39pm

17. "He received the award for being..black?

    Or was it to influence his policys because he is easily influenced by those who "put" him there...example?"

    moron,

    before you jump in with your regularly scheduled idiocy, i highly recommend you watch the nobel committee chair's reasoning behind the selection of obama. while i don't necessarily agree with the choice of obama for the prize, he did not receive the award for the (ridiculous) reasons you believe.

    the type of diplomacy in which obama has chose to engage has opened up new avenues for peace between nations. i don't know how anyone can disagree with that.

    standing armies and weapons caches have also been reduced under obama.

    check the video, maasch, before you spout more and more bullshit. it's seriously annoying, and i'm so glad i was on vacation the last 5 days to avoid it.

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 1:40pm

18. Oh, but no need, just wait-- next video of a fake hooker and pimp is filming on a flight to Oslo as I type...

    Posted by hsuBfools at 10/10/2009 @ 1:31pm

    I believe the NPP was for dedicated hard work with accomplishments that benefited mankind as a whole...not the hopes that some put in one to do that when at least half and maybe many more than that, believe just the opposite of the same person....a pereson who despite no real job, had written 3 life autobiographies, never ran a business, created a single job,....

    I guess that is part of the "hope and Change" you guys believe so strongly in..even in the face of reality.

    and what ACORNS collapse under its own corruption, from inception and embezzlement to Donald Duck voter fraud has to to with this I'll never know.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 10/10/2009 @ 1:45pm

19. Obama missed a chance to sky rocket in many of his opponents mind with this NPP...he had a Clinton moment and..failed..

    Had he said ,"Thank you very much, but I have done nothing to earn this, especialy 11 days on the job...please give it to the Chinese dissedents, or anyone of the people who did earn this by risking life and limb for years.."

    Man oh man, Obama would have soard in my eyes...but no...

    We were left with, golly, gee, gosh., I don't deserve it, the ah, American people do...but I'll keep it and give away the cash...and put the trophy in my library...

    This is how one termers are self made, and deservedly so. It is going to be a rough midterm. Could be the earliest lame duck presidency in history, and may well end up a disappointing foot note in history as well.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 10/10/2009 @ 1:51pm

20. maasch,

    can you PLEASE do us all a huge favor and just leave?

    you are the most annoying, nauseating person here.

    please, maasch, leave. leave us alone so we can debate amongst ourselves.

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 1:53pm

21. Posted by YourJomamma at 10/10/2009 @ 1:45pm

    BWAHahahah, you actually do believe your own crap!?!

    Remember to flush repeatedly. BWAHahahah.

    HELLO, even Nobels for science discovery aren't for their 'application' accomplishments but about the pure science producing possibilities or-- HOPE!

    Posted by hsuBfools at 10/10/2009 @ 1:58pm

22. 77% of Nobel prizes in physics have been given to discoveries, compared with only 23% to inventions

    Posted by hsuBfools at 10/10/2009 @ 2:08pm

23. This is the MSM's plan for a "post-racial" America. Create a personality cult around their black trophy that even he is not comfortable with. Label every criticism of him or his cracker chorus of worshippers (in a nation where every president is despised by approx. half the nation) as racially motivated.

    Tell black people every day that the only reason those people oppose him is he's black. Make them feel that their white neighbors, coworkers et al must hate them if they don't support Obama. Tell middle America whites every day that they are racists. Make them feel that their black neighbors, co-workers et al must believe they are racist if they don't support Obama.

    Make sure that the opportunity for black americans to shed the "these crackers won't let me get ahead" mentality is wasted. This mentality helps justify thuggery and black-on-black crime, which destroys many black lives. Lives that the MSM could not care less about.

    Promote division. Pray for racial violence.

    Disgusting. I can only pray that these promoters of Helter Skelter get sucked into the malaise along with the innocent people white, black, and brown, that they are so fervently trying to create.

    Posted by gangpapist at 10/10/2009 @ 2:08pm

24. >>>This is how one termers are self made, and deservedly so. It is going to be a rough midterm. Could be the earliest lame duck presidency in history, and may well end up a disappointing foot note in history as well.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 10/10/2009 @ 1:51pm <<<

    How do you like the sound of PERMANENT MINORITY?

    You are going to LOSE seats in the midterm, as your party brass is till fixated on distracting the public with character assassinations on Obama rather than accepting that the country has changed from your selfish ideology to one of selfless service to humanity.

    Selfishness just doesn't sell any more except to your 30% Sarah Palin base. You can't win NATIONAL elections with this base, and we are going to tie this base around your neck and sink you with it.

    Reagan is dead, and so is his Ayn Rand ideology!

    Posted by Metteyya at 10/10/2009 @ 2:17pm

25. maasch,

    can you PLEASE do us all a huge favor and just leave?

    you are the most annoying, nauseating person here.

    please, maasch, leave. leave us alone so we can debate amongst ourselves.

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 1:53pm

    Don't like my right to freedom of expression ?

    I encourage you to post more...it is very entertaining..

    Posted by YourJomamma at 10/10/2009 @ 2:20pm

26. HELLO, even Nobels for science discovery aren't for their 'application' accomplishments but about the pure science producing possibilities or-- HOPE!

    Posted by hsuBfools at 10/10/2009 @ 1:58pm

    This I understand..

    any given out to an unknown entity for pure Hope for 11 days on the job?

    Posted by YourJomamma at 10/10/2009 @ 2:22pm

27. and i'm so glad i was on vacation the last 5 days to avoid it.

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 1:40pm

    How does one with no job, due to a disability that requires getting stoned...take, muchless, pay, for a vacation? What is the difference between a vacation for 5 days and the rest of the week,month, years, of no job?

    With stimulus money?

    And you criticize me for free time? I have created jobs,created tax payers,pay high taxes, high taxes, while sitting at an airport...and you?

    Posted by YourJomamma at 10/10/2009 @ 2:26pm

28. PLUS...you stick the poor bastards in Canada with your health care bills!!

    Posted by YourJomamma at 10/10/2009 @ 2:26pm

29. "How does one with no job, due to a disability that requires getting stoned...take, muchless, pay, for a vacation? What is the difference between a vacation for 5 days and the rest of the week,month, years, of no job"

    so, owning a business = "no job"?

    interesting.

    and you have to understand that "vacation" for me = not tending to my gardens for 5 days, and visiting a friend's place up north....to......help her with her gardening.

    and i've never had any medical care in canada, maasch.....it's an option if care is Unaffordable down here....

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 2:35pm

30. apparently, in maasch's mind, the people who grow his food, and deliver it to his fat ass, are unemployed.

    but if you sell crap to the chinese?

    now you're a real patriotic american!

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 2:36pm

31. Jommama, me thinks you protest to much.

    Posted by Denise29 at 10/10/2009 @ 2:43pm

32. I truly believe that there are those among you that are driven by egalitarianism and justice, and that if given the chance you would put your lives on the line for what you believe. You would be like Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner.

    But the opportunity simply isn't there. The country has changed. It must be doubly frustrating, because you have this immense pressure on you to act as if it has not changed, but the fact that it has leaves you bereft of purpose, with all of this energy but no real opportunity to convert it into action.

    How do you prove to your self that you matter, that you contribute? The temptation is to project an unspeakable evil onto other Americans, the provincials. That counterweight of evil can be used to measure your own goodness.

    Obama becomes the embodiment of the liberal ethos. Every accolade, award, affirmation of him is simultaneously a rejection of the dark side, the ugly white face, that which you fear in your self.

    I have considered that some of you are animated primarily by a sense of compassion and justice, not by hatred. Consider this. Many of us out here on the other side are as well. We may be different, culturally, but we want the same things. I spent a year in Iraq, and questioned some of what I saw there but also believe that groups of people there, for now, live free of the threat of genocide, in part because of the blood shed by american soldiers, some of whom were my friends.

    I probably oppose about 60 percent of the obama agenda, none of it based on his race. The elevation of him to a God disturbs me, because it seems to go hand in hand with the denigration of people like me, and my "religulous" parents as devils.

    Posted by gangpapist at 10/10/2009 @ 2:57pm

33. Posted by hsuBfools at 10/10/2009 @ 1:58pm This I understand.. any given out to an unknown entity for pure Hope for 11 days on the job? Posted by YourJomamma at 10/10/2009 @ 2:22pm

    Apparently you do not get the concept. You're fixated on the weirdest thing-- what, was Obama 11 years old?

    Obviously something was 'discovered' in those 11 days plus the days before and after November 4, 2008; per the previous 3000 days of failed experiments...

    And just as obviously, you'll never get the prize for discovering the simplest of truth.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 10/10/2009 @ 3:03pm

34. Ms. Lacewell's article reveals a glaring, fundamental, falacy of progressive thinking. She thinks that a President, any President but this one in particular, has no business waging war against America's enemies.

    Really now, would progressives like to tie one arm of every one of our troops behind their backs and then let them try to fight it out against a well armed and trained enemy, bent on destroying America. I just don't understand their rational. This is THEIR country too, (progressives). Our military is charged with the mission to protect your sorry asses. Our President doesn't need any crap from you suggesting that he should put his tail between his legs and run.

    The alternative to a weak policy on facing down America's enemies is capitulation. Stop hating George Bush, dig down deep and summon your patriotism and get behing our forces so that they can fight with both hands. And tell, in a loud and clear voice, to give General McChrystal the troops he requested so that he can get the job done and bring our troops home.

    As for Obama's NPP, this is just a blatant example of outsiders trying to control America. Obama needs to summon up the courage, that war Presidents like FDR, Truman, Lincoln and both Bushes had before him.

    If I were Barack Obama, I would not take the easy way out by kowtowing to political interests. I would do as GWB did and say polls be damned, America comes first. It's too damn bad if other countries think we are meanies because we are in the process of kicking the collective asses of some very bad people.

    The jury is still out on this President but he should of said to the Nobel Committee, "Thanks but no thanks. We are at war and the stakes are high, for America and the world."

    Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/10/2009 @ 3:05pm

35. "Ms. Lacewell's article reveals a glaring, fundamental, falacy of progressive thinking. She thinks that a President, any President but this one in particular, has no business waging war against America's enemies."

    gunslinger, you are obviously not a very intelligent person. that's my first point.

    my second point is a question: can you pinpoint exactly where the "glaring, fundamental fallacy" in ms. lacewell's thinking is? if it is, indeed, so glaring and fundamental, then it shouldn't be very difficult for you to cite it.

    thank you.

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 3:11pm

36. If I were Barack Obama, Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/10/2009 @ 3:05pm

    I swear I just heard a collective sighed of billions...!

    Posted by hsuBfools at 10/10/2009 @ 3:12pm

37. and btw, who are "america's enemies"?

    you mean, the afghani people?

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 3:13pm

38. er ha, I swear I just heard a collective sigh of relief from billions...!

    Posted by hsuBfools at 10/10/2009 @ 3:14pm

39. "I probably oppose about 60 percent of the obama agenda, none of it based on his race"

    nobody said it was.

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 3:16pm

40. One more thing Ms. Lacewell, affirmative action was an abomination. Many qualified people were refused for jobs because their skin was white, just to hire people whose skin was black, brown or whatever. While the policy enabled some people of color to succeed, the overall result was a dumbing down of America in the workplace.

    That's not meant to insult anyone of color. It's meant to reveal the falacy of a policy that would advance people because of race, rather than experience or intellect. Testing was dumb downed and promotional exams were dumb downed just to supposedly right the wrongs of what should be a color-blind society but instead practiced racism in it's hiring practices. In other words, the intention was good but the re

    sults were flawed. Look at your own words. People of color now suffer from 'affirmative action dilemma.' It's a stigma that will always exist in minority communities. Minorities, however, have come a long way, partially from taking jobs from people who were more qualified, but also because of good old-fashioned America ingenuity. Those who are successful got a break and made something of themselves. But what about those who were given the opportunity but ended up doing nothing with it. That's where the policy as a whole, failed, on a massive scale. Look at the unemployment demographics.

    Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/10/2009 @ 3:18pm

41. Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 3:11pm

    'I criticized the idea of awarding a Nobel Peace Prize to a president whose short presidency has included drone attacks with devastating civilian causalities, the escalation of the war in Afghanistan, and a painfully slow response to the basic human rights issues facing LGBT communities. I respect the President's accomplishments in diplomacy but believed these issues were relevant to assessing his record on peace.'

    Been hitting the bong again Darla?

    Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/10/2009 @ 3:21pm

42. and btw, who are "america's enemies"?

    you mean, the afghani people?

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 3:13pm

    And you thinkI'm unintelligent? Take another hit.

    Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/10/2009 @ 3:22pm

43. Darla, what will you think if President Obama decides to send 40,000 more troops to Afghanistan. Will you support him? Will you support the troops? WILL YOU SUPPORT AMERICA? If you can't answer 'yes' to all three of those questions, you have no business arguing with me.

    Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/10/2009 @ 3:25pm

44. "I probably oppose about 60 percent of the obama agenda, none of it based on his race"

    nobody said it was.

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 3:16pm

    C'mon Darla, just about everyone on the left cries RACISM! at every opportunity when someone challanges Obama. I'm afraid his Presidency has done more to set the cause of black people in this country on it's head than any other factor in the country's short history. Obama has the weight of the world on his shoulders. He has to find some courage soon or else you and I an people of all colors will be suffering for his lack of it. He needs to close his door to his advisors and just think for awhile. He is the President of ALL the people.

    Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/10/2009 @ 3:32pm

45. At least the true left is less conformist than the MSM. It is frighteningly reminiscent of the way the Bolsheviks would receive a complete reversal of previous policy as if it had never existed.

    Everybody was obviously caught off guard, including the president. I don't think anybody had editorialized that Obama should receive the award. NOBODY had even given it a thought.

    But the new Comintern had issued the communique, and the MSM rolled with it, ready to smear the mensheviks if they dare question party line.

    Interestingly, there are now two issues the MSM will allow itself or anybody else to disagree with Obama about: race and His own greatness.

    Twice Obama has rejected race as the driving force behind criticism of himself, and the unpopular governor of New York. But the MSM has rejected the first black president as an authority on racism, that role is reserved for white leftists.

    Now, the Great One may be disagreed with for questioning his own Greatness.

    The MSM believes that in these two instances, they know better, even than Obama. Even He cannot be allowed to make them dispense with their two most treasured weapons of propaganda: the cult of personality, and the promotion of racial animosity

    Posted by gangpapist at 10/10/2009 @ 3:34pm

46. "While the policy enabled some people of color to succeed, the overall result was a dumbing down of America in the workplace. That's not meant to insult anyone of color"

    no, not at all.

    "C'mon Darla, just about everyone on the left cries RACISM! at every opportunity when someone challanges Obama"

    evidence?

    "Darla, what will you think if President Obama decides to send 40,000 more troops to Afghanistan. Will you support him? Will you support the troops? WILL YOU SUPPORT AMERICA?"

    no, no, and no.

    "And you thinkI'm unintelligent? Take another hit."

    ok. i think it's about time i did.

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 3:39pm

47. Yes, he deserves it for the mire fact that he had the courage to run for president in the most racist country in the world. AND HE WON! Again I say, BRAVO, Mr. President! Well deserved, sir!

    Posted by MASHnews at 10/10/2009 @ 4:10pm

48. This is for my white leftist homies cause I feel your pain.

    There comes a time when, as an altruistic white person, you come to realize your country's sordid past, and racism having been America's greatest flaw you want to not only not be a racist, but you want to somehow contribute to the defeat of racism, and the well-being of non-white people.

    But what do you do? You can vote for a guy who you agree with and who is black, but that doesn't exactly make you John Brown. In fact, you may have to resolve that unless you stumble upon some skinheads beating a black person, and you intervene and beat up the skinheads, you will not have much opportunity for truly hands on, heroic acts of anti-racism.

    Allow me to explain my approach to right white living. It is only one approach, but I don't think it's so bad.

    I truly believe that at this stage in our history, white racism is not the PRIMARY factor that drives down quality of life for many black people. It takes some courage to take this stance, but not that much.

    Most of the racism that I have encountered in my lifetime is in-group racism. Sometimes I wonder what world other people live in, because in my world, I hear black people say denigrating things about black people all the time.

    When I hear this racism, I counter it. Ex: a black neighbor told me she asked me a question about her computer because "you don't ask a nigga something like that, you ask a nigga if you want to know who got shot."

    When I hear something like that, I tell the speaker that they are denying themselves their full potential by thinking in stereotype.

    I think this approach is better than tilting at phantom klansmen and throwing around unwarranted accusations. That may awaken some pockets of...

    Posted by gangpapist at 10/10/2009 @ 4:24pm

49. real white racism, but why would you want to do that?

    I think we should also revisit some issues such as how it could possibly be healthy for a black child to be reminded hundreds of times a day by his peers that he is a "nigga." Or how a form of music which has created almost as many creative phrases for killing a "nigga" as there are for having sex somehow always manages to escape constructive criticism.

    This is one approach, my approach. It may not be the best one, but I don't think it's a bad one, and it beats stirring up animosities where there don't need to be any.

    Posted by gangpapist at 10/10/2009 @ 4:25pm

50. gangpapist,

    i think if you want your opinions to have any influence on me whatsoever, you need to think A LOT deeper.

    there's only one interesting thinker in the Nation's comments pages: jakobfabian.

    thrawn used to be part of this list, until he revealed himself to be nothing short of your basic modern-day pragmatist/technocrat/centrist/capitalist.

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 4:35pm

51. Posted by gangpapist at 10/10/2009 @ 4:25pm

    Nice try. But if you want to open a dialogue about racism in America, you are on the wrong site. Progressives use accusations of racism as a means to an end here. If it suits their purposes they will cry racism. A good example was the outcry over the white cop and the black professor in Ma. recently.

    Those on the left use racism as a weapon against rightist ideals because it's the easy way out. Rather than arguing a question on it's merits they will say that it's because Obama is black. It's really quite juvinile and it is really getting old. When you sit in the middle, as I do, it becomes so plain to see.

    Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/10/2009 @ 4:42pm

52. "Progressives use accusations of racism as a means to an end here."

    again, where's the evidence? i don't see any.

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 4:46pm

53. darla,

    Although my comments were earnest, the childish simplicity of phrases like "right white living" is tongue-in-cheek.

    I do think that white people face a dilemma in how to approach race, and though I'm sure there are "deeper" minds than mine, my approach is Einsteinian compared to the MSMs frenzied promotion of racial conflict.

    I will, of course, always attempt to better myself and fine tune my ideas. I disagree - there are a few interesting thinkers here, though i wish there were more.

    Posted by gangpapist at 10/10/2009 @ 4:47pm

54. "A good example was the outcry over the white cop and the black professor in Ma. recently."

    duh! who WOULDN'T cry racism in that case?!

    jeez!

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 4:47pm

55. hey gunslinger, are you white? or black/brown?

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 4:48pm

56. so to support his claim that progressives use racism as a means to an end, gunslinger cites the gates arrest.

    now *that*, my friends, is the epitome of pathetic.

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 4:53pm

57. Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/10/2009 @ 4:42pm

    Ya. My feeling about leftists is that many start out with good intentions, but then, like commies, their quest for ideological purity morphs them into a hategroup. But some have not made the full transition. My appeals are directed at those who can still recognize the humanity of myself and other Americans with whom they have political differences.

    Posted by gangpapist at 10/10/2009 @ 4:53pm

58. "My feeling about leftists is that many start out with good intentions, but then, like commies, their quest for ideological purity morphs them into a hategroup"

    (quote of the month)

    note: for those not aware of these awards i bestow, they are not given for intelligent, thoughtful, or otherwise englightened comments, but for sheer, breathtaking inanity.

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 5:19pm

59. examples of how leftists have turned into a "hategroup"?

    would LOVE to hear them.

    as opposed to, say, the right, who clearly (!) have morphed into one, as EVIDENCED by:

    *talk radio

    *fox news

    *tea baggers

    *right wing militias

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 5:30pm

60. even our very own intelligence agencies have warned of increasing hatred of the right wing.....but no, it's the left who has "morphed into a hategroup"!

    you really can't get much funnier than that....

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 5:31pm

61. darla,

    Was it my use of the term "commies?" That was tongue-in-cheek too. From my experience, lefties tend to loathe middle america so intensely that the mere thought of say, a guy in a pick-up truck who has never committed violence against something that lacks antlers, but who uses the word "commies," is far more, clutch-the-pearls, horrifying than the murderers and serial rapists that guarded the gulags. So, ya, I'll throw it around for fun.

    Anyway, thanks for the distinction.

    Posted by gangpapist at 10/10/2009 @ 5:32pm

62. "From my experience, lefties tend to loathe middle america so intensely that the mere thought of say, a guy in a pick-up truck who has never committed violence against something that lacks antlers, but who uses the word "commies," is far more, clutch-the-pearls, horrifying than the murderers and serial rapists that guarded the gulags"

    examples of how lefties "loathe" middle america?

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 5:41pm

63. Evidence? That's easy. Watch MSNBC or other MSM. EVERY day they promote racial conflict and label huge groups of people as vile racists and "psychos."

    Totalitarians have ALWAYS done this. They place labels on people to dehumanize them.

    Do a google image search on the Cultural Revolution? Same animus. Provincials, labeled, dehumanized, for the furtherance of sweeping social change. No, Obama is not Mao, but the elites in the media sure act like they wish he was.

    Posted by gangpapist at 10/10/2009 @ 5:46pm

64. " Watch MSNBC or other MSM. EVERY day they promote racial conflict and label huge groups of people as vile racists and "psychos.""

    that's not evidence. send me a link where this happens. i want to see EVIDENCE of your incredibly flimsy claim.

    "Obama is not Mao, but the elites in the media sure act like they wish he was."

    most retarded statement i've read all week.

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 5:52pm

65. And just as obviously, you'll never get the prize for discovering the simplest of truth.

    Posted by hsuBfools at 10/10/2009 @ 3:03pm

    The relevance of the 11 days is this..

    Obama was considered after only 11 days in office...so it can't be his record since he has none...so what is it the fact he was elected by a white dominated culture to the highest office and trust?

    I can accept you comments on the NPP award going for an idea that has been worked on for generations or years...but Obama doesn't fit that senario either..

    ergo, it was nothing short of political manipulation,. an attempt to box him in..and he ran into the box..an experienced leader, a natural leader, or one really in charge of his world views would have taken a few steps back and at least pondered, "What am I missing here?"

    So, why was he picked over others around the world, placed near real heros and risk takers like MLK, who in words and deed, lived the ideas he was representing...

    Instead we are left with ashes in our mouths and billions of average peole, when they heard the news, espcially after Carter, and the the idoit in chief, ALGORE received one....had to roll their eys and write of 10 plus years of Nobel "Laureates"..as another "participant" ribbon...who is next?

    Chavez? Castro for free medical care?

    Posted by YourJomamma at 10/10/2009 @ 6:00pm

66. gangpapist=kook

    Posted by Denise29 at 10/10/2009 @ 6:03pm

67. Jomamma=kookiest

    Posted by Denise29 at 10/10/2009 @ 6:05pm

68. I am not going to send you a link. Yesterday Ed Schultz began his show by saying that the right-wing "hate machine" was criticizing the NP choice, yada, yadda, they hate Obama because of the "color of his skin."

    Almost every day, he and Olbermann, and Maddow, make statements like that one. They are easy to find.

    Why? Because labeling dehumanizes. For the Left, a racist is the worst thing a person can be. A child rapist may be redeemable, but a racist is irredeemable, even if their only crimes are thought crimes.

    And maybe there is another reason. Maybe the white elitists of Manhattan realize that they share far more in common with Wall Street, than they do with the common people (minorities) they supposedly love so much. What is Manhattan, where most of the MSM reside composed of? Mostly white, spoiled rich kids, conformist leftists, who work in non-producing, parasitic industries, just like the capitalists they supposedly hate.

    Americans across the racial spectrum have many cultural differences, but white, black, or brown we have more in common with each other than we do with the elites. We are not horrified by people who believe in the Bible, or comfortable with people who think that euthanasia for children might be OK.

    The elites know this. It keeps them awake at night. So they bring race into every issue. They want division. They need blood.

    Posted by gangpapist at 10/10/2009 @ 6:13pm

69. we (the intelligent among us) all know it's ludicrous that obama won this award......but can we all just have some perspective please?

    this was a thoughtful comment, but one with which i don't agree:

    "So as I would crave peace, Baruch Spinoza said Peace is not the absence of war; it is a virtue; a state of mind; a disposition for benevolence; confidence; and justice. Dorothy Thompson once said They have not wanted Peace at all; they have wanted to be spared war -- as though the absence of war was the same as peace"

    this clearly does not apply to afghanistan or iraq.

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 6:15pm

70. Obama won because Al Gore set it up. Why? My guess : carbon caps.

    Posted by dgscol at 10/10/2009 @ 6:20pm

71. Have not picked this up with a quick skim through the Journo's efforts and the posts here but this information, if correct, puts Obama's award into perspective.

    Listening to some political commentary here a few moments ago one journalist stated that nominations for the 2009 Peace Prize closed 17 days into Obama's presidency. His comment was : "What a joke".

    However the joke is really on him and of course on those who list Obama's subsequent more belligerent agenda in Afghanistan.

    This was the criteria given by the founder Alfred Nobel:

    According to Nobel's will, the Peace Prize should be awarded "to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses."

    Nobel died in 1896 and did not leave an explanation for choosing peace as a prize category. The reason behind the peace prize is less clear. According to the Norwegian Nobel Committee, there's significant evidence his friendship with Bertha von Suttner, a peace activist and the first winner of the prize, may have profoundly influenced his decision to include peace as a category.

    (And here are the bits they don't want you to know):

    Scholars who studied Nobel have said it was Nobel's way to compensate for developing destructive forces (Nobel's inventions included dynamite and ballistite).

    None of his explosives, except for ballistite, were used in any war during his lifetime,[3] although the Irish Republican Brotherhood, an Irish nationalist organization, did carry out dynamite attacks in the 1880s[4] and he was instrumental in turning Bofors from an iron company to an armaments company whilst he owned it. wiki

    So hold your head up high Kissinger. You are in "good" company.

    Posted by lrjones4 at 10/10/2009 @ 6:36pm

72. It is always fascinating to me that we, as in the US, always think that our point of view is the only prism through which anything meaningful should be evaluated. Any other point of view is minimized, examined, speculated over, criticized, and generally second-guessed. So we decide that the NPP committee must certainly be suspect, less than qualified, et al just because they chose President Barack Obama as the recipient of the Noble Peace Prize. What a hoot.

    Curious. If this was such a non-award, as minimized by those who teeter on the brink of.... (inanity, insanity, profanity -- take your choice) Why all the noise, boys? Or does this Prize become the fly in the ointment of those with other agendas yet unspoken?

    This President did not create the two wars we are in, nor was he the creator of the current economic crisis. He is however, doing his best to resolve the problems in the people's best interest -- without the assistance of those who have the power to make things better for you and me. The outrage should be that the "conservatives," right wingers, Republicans and/or bed linen people are not proud that an American won the Nobel Peace prize. The confusion is why you folks who follow these people haven't figured out yet that their agenda is not your agenda.

    Posted by E_Joyce at 10/10/2009 @ 6:52pm

73. Posted by E_Joyce at 10/10/2009 @ 6:52pm

    Wow! How do you pack so much intellect into just a few paragraphs?

    Lee Harvey Oswald was an American, but he had traveled abroad so I suppose he could have picked up his unique perspective on how to greet the president's motorcade somewhere else. If he were to have won an award, instead of what Ruby gave him, we could be doubly proud, cause an american won an award, but won it while demonstrating the ability to see things from another perspective!

    Posted by gangpapist at 10/10/2009 @ 7:19pm

74. gangpapppy=kook

    Posted by Denise29 at 10/10/2009 @ 7:40pm

75. I just don't understand, Ms Lacewell, your continuing support for Barack Obama. I find him narcissistically ambitious. That view is the only one that seems consistent with his behavior from his candidacy to his service to the financial industry and the military-imperialists: He is just a very bright boy who suffers from Narcissitc Personality Disorder (NPD) (Please Google "Ali Sina".) BO has NPD and won the NPP!

    Posted by goedel at 10/10/2009 @ 7:41pm

76. Come on. let's show some positivity, here. The President won the Nobel Peace Prize.

    I can't wait for him to win the Nobel Prize in Economics next year, for his plans to create millions of green jobs, and for all of the "jobs saved and jobs created" (I still don't know what that means, check with his economics tsar).

    I can't wait for him to win the Nobel Prize in Medicine next year, for that whole healthcare thing he has going.

    Honestly, though, he'll have to wait until he leaves office and writes his great Presidential memoir before I will think he deserves the Nobel Prize in Literature.

    Posted by twillie at 10/10/2009 @ 10:23pm

77. hey gunslinger, are you white? or black/brown?

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 4:48pm

    I'm American.

    Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/10/2009 @ 10:32pm

78. Posted by E_Joyce at 10/10/2009 @ 6:52pm |

    Oh really? Democrats control all three branches of government with the SC bing the only one close to neutral. So, how long do you think Obama gets away with blaming someone else. Will he still be doing so, say ten or fifteen months from now? Probably. A leader doesn't place blame, he/she 'leads.'

    Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/10/2009 @ 10:40pm

79. I think that the decision to give President Obama the Nobel prize was at least not enough meditated, however it is a glory that over the last ten years three prominent Democrats: Jimmy Carter, Al Gore, and Barack Obama have won the prize. Is the world trying to say something to Republicans? You bet.

    There are some common circumstances. As everybody, the Norwegian Parlament knows that the Presidency of the US (or a quasi President and effective veep like Al Gore) bestows so much power and a quite universal assessment of the world problems associated with violence. That was the fountain where they drink in the past, and the reason why Carter found his anew pacifist career, Clinton found his initiatives towards fighting poverty, and Gore his environmental crusade. Obama however, is still of course President and his actions are and will be tainted with violence as he can not play games with our forces stationed abroad nor leave precipitously without occasioning further damage.

    I think that the central idea with Obama's prize is the hope of the whole world that there is a dim (but still reasonable) hope that with him US policies will change for the better with the past. That we as a nation will have the courage to leave the empire to integrate ourselves into the community of nations as common Sam chats with other uncles.

    The final question remains: will the US relinquish power in any way? I don't think so, but economic realities will be the more than subtle way in which the world will teach us to humble for the better.

    Posted by Frank42 at 10/10/2009 @ 10:42pm

80. Posted by Denise29 at 10/10/2009 @ 7:40pm

    Do you have anything else to contribute besides insults? Oh hell, you might as well be the first on my ignore list. Nothing lost there.

    Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/10/2009 @ 10:43pm

81. The final question remains: will the US relinquish power in any way? I don't think so, but economic realities will be the more than subtle way in which the world will teach us to humble for the better.

    Posted by Frank42 at 10/10/2009 @ 10:42pm

    The free world better pray that we don't relinquish power in any way. If we go down so do they. Hell, if it wasn't for America, the continent of Europe would be called Germany now and the continent of Asia would be called Japan. How soon we forget. I wonder if Barack Obama has ever read any history besides the basics. He seems to be an expert on politics and oration though.

    Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/10/2009 @ 10:49pm

82. Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/10/2009 @ 10:49pm

    Thank you gun. You seem to understand that the American conservative has become the defender of liberalism, while the elitist Left has become the enabler of tribalism, misogyny, and terror.

    Posted by gangpapist at 10/10/2009 @ 11:04pm

83. "the elitist Left has become the enabler of tribalism, misogyny, and terror"

    wow!

    looks like two guys have usurped the idiocy of antisocialist, bigpasture and jomamma.

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 11:41pm

84. "I wonder if Barack Obama has ever read any history besides the basics"

    but bush, of course, was the true scholar!

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 11:42pm

85. "if it wasn't for America, the continent of Europe would be called Germany now and the continent of Asia would be called Japan"

    and? what's your point? that since we conquered the world with our military prowess......we should......continue doing the same?

    i mean, serious, what the fuck are you trying to say?

    do you have any clue how ridiculously uneducated you seem by prancing around proclaiming how awesome america is because we.......what? have bombs?

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 11:45pm

86. do gangpapist and gunslinger have ANY idea who the real Elitists are? any?

    let me tell you something guys: they aren't educated urban liberals like myself.

    they are old, old money. and mostly republican. and they control your lives like you wouldn't believe.

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 11:56pm

87. The Peace Prize really is a bit of a prestige non starter given some of the rogues who have received it in the past.

    The greater prestige comes with the Nobels for physics, chemistry, physiology or medicine as these can be objectively measured by peer experts, and literature (the letter has about as much relevance as the Peace Medal but at least it keeps the arty farties happy).

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Obama, who is nobody's fool, is very gracious in condescending to receive such a tainted dud award.

    Posted by lrjones4 at 10/11/2009 @ 12:11am

88. latter (instead of letter)

    Posted by lrjones4 at 10/11/2009 @ 12:32am

89. Professor Melissa Harris-Lacewell's piece 'Did Obama Deserve The Nobel Peace Prize' seems to have created a bit of a tempest. Let me say this: I knew Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Most people today know him as a 'Great Man', which he was. But they will never have the chance to know that he was a 'Great Guy'. At the very least, Obama provides an example that could/should/would be emulated. (Full-disclosure: I respect him even though he is a "politician"). First, whether or not I agree with the professor she raises valid points. Funny that so many of those claiming to be patriotic and so quick to call others un-American can' allow that anyone but they have a right to an opinion. Second, since the "debate" headed in this direction - (American) history is a shameful litany of atrocities. It should not be necessary and it is impossible to list them all here. That more "Americans" aren't ashamed of what they call 'a proud history' is disturbing. As an exercise: imagine the tables were turned! What does this history look like to you now? The fact that we can't have a serious discussion about so many things because we cannot be honest about the truth of the past is the worst-case practice of denial. When Prof. Gates of Harvard's arrest situation happened there was 'a teachable moment', but even as President of the United States, "the most powerful man in the world" dared not wake that sleeping dog, the taboo whose name we dare not speak. The situation in the country reflects the level, the ugliness, the hatred practiced all along while at the same time people preached 'christian-ity' (small 'C' Christ had nothing to do with this).

    How can you say you love God, whom you've never seen, yet not love your brother whom you see everyday?

    Posted by wmrjackson at 10/11/2009 @ 12:34am

90. they aren't educated urban liberals like myself.

    they are old, old money. and mostly republican. and they control your lives like you wouldn't believe.

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 11:56pm

    You're educated? Proof please...

    You are a poster clown for the indoctrinated, stoned and unemployable in the real world.

    Posted by YourJomamma at 10/11/2009 @ 12:52am

91. Congratulations! Every American should be proud and honored.

    The Globe & Mail has a piece "Obama deserves the Nobel: He has changed the international game in issues that matter."

    Time will show he absolutely deserves the award.

    "Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future."

    It is to his credit that he was chosen unanimously out of so many. It is a vote of confidence in Obama's vision & action in health care, education, climate change & a nuclear-free world - a vote of confidence to encourage progress in society.

    Obama has an 82% approval in England and Canada (higher in France) where Bush had a 17% approval, but is about more than respect for Obama. He is popular in countries that have excellent public health, where people live longer and healthier because they want for the American people what they already are thankful to have: a basic right to quality and accessible health care.

    Obama is a transformative figure. Health care reform alone will save and improve countless lives.

    Obama is following through on the thing for which Al Gore received a Nobel. No other country had invested more in green technology more than the US because of Obama.

    I give credit for McCain for showing grace. Those that undermine this great award only make themselves seem smaller, not the President.

    Limbaugh said "I'm with the Taliban" and I agree he has quite a few things in common with them. He is not interested in a healthy, confident & educated population because they would never listen to him. Even republicans are speaking out to say he undermines the party's credibility:

    "We conservatives are submitting our movement to some of the most unscrupulous people in American life." David Frum

    Posted by Canadianmom at 10/11/2009 @ 01:26am

92. Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/10/2009 @ 10:49pm

    seems to me, that if it hadn't been for slavery, america wouldn't have been able to be america*.

    see,

    the wheels on the bus go round and round,

    and the entity with the greatest military potential suddenly becomes the next shining light on the hill.

    at least in their own minds.

    perhaps saving flint would be a better place to start.

    *nothing personal -- if it hadn't been for the "removal" of the ojibwa, i wouldn't live were i do. etc.,

    Posted by frosty zoom at 10/11/2009 @ 01:27am

93. They should've given the Nobel Peace Prize to Dubya because he drove this country so far into the ground we can't attack anyone else.

    Posted by koroviev at 10/11/2009 @ 01:28am

94. Posted by gangpapist at 10/10/2009 @ 2:08pm | Posted by gangpapist at 10/10/2009 @ 4:24pm | Posted by gangpapist at 10/10/2009 @ 4:25pm |Posted by gangpapist at 10/10/2009 @ 6:13pm | Posted by gangpapist at 10/10/2009 @ 11:04pm |

    I was enjoying your revelations and speaking of truth to the "indoctrinated", but just couldn't disappoint the shrill responders or those choosing to just simply ignore or supress their kneejerk reactions to your posts.

    Matthew 7:6 " Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

    This kind of gives me pause sometimes, but then one does tire of the obtuse "programming" that most exhibit reguarding race and other red flags that are regularly deployed for weapon value only.

    I see nothing wrong with your "eyesight" and your national service is to be commended!

    Posted by BigPasture at 10/11/2009 @ 01:37am

95. Obama has an 82% approval in England and Canada (higher in France)

    Posted by Canadianmom at 10/11/2009 @ 01:26am |

    The pitiful thing is that none of them have him and we are stuck with him for another 3 1/2 yrs!!!!

    Posted by BigPasture at 10/11/2009 @ 01:41am

96. while the elitist Left has become the enabler of tribalism, misogyny, and terror.

    Posted by gangpapist at 10/10/2009 @ 11:04pm

    now, i understand the EPA!

    wait, wasn't that nixon?

    nevermind.

    ••

    anyhoo,

    wasn't it mr. reagan who armed the pashtuns?

    they seem pretty whatever those "qualities" were.

    ••

    and what about that sunni awakening -- not the nicest fellows to say the least?

    the wheels on the bus certainly do travel far.

    ••

    you can't see the forest for trees because you've cut them all down.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 10/11/2009 @ 01:41am

97. The pitiful thing is that none of them have him and we are stuck with him for another 3 1/2 yrs!!!!

    Posted by BigPasture at 10/11/2009 @ 01:41am

    wanna trade?

    Posted by frosty zoom at 10/11/2009 @ 01:43am

98. do you have any clue how ridiculously uneducated you seem by prancing around proclaiming how awesome america is because we.......what? have bombs?

    Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 11:45pm

    why don't you give them reasons to see why america is great?

    may i humbly suggest:

    being able to type away here on this here bloggarito without fear (hi, nsa! cold this year, huh..)*

    sonny rollins

    gumbo

    timmy geithner

    (oops)

    flint

    apple fucking pie!

    lead by example.

    *darla's right, guys. you don't need to blow people up in order to make them not hate you. maybe paying them fairly is a better place to start.

    Posted by frosty zoom at 10/11/2009 @ 01:50am

99. ha ha!

    Posted by frosty zoom at 10/11/2009 @ 01:53am

100. The free world better pray that we don't relinquish power in any way.

     Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/10/2009 @ 10:49pm

     you're right!

     i mean, what's timbuktu without a wendy's?

     Posted by frosty zoom at 10/11/2009 @ 01:55am

101. hey gunslinger, are you white? or black/brown?

     Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 4:48pm

     hi darla.

     sorry to butt in...

     i'm kinda pinkish, myself.

     although this summer i was more cupric.

     not blue, though.

     if someone were black, you wouldn't see them.

     a truly white person would be a rainbow waiting to happen.

     i see lotsa brown folks, though.

     hey, that's another good thing about america.

     Posted by frosty zoom at 10/11/2009 @ 02:00am

102. When war becomes peace,

     When concepts and realities are turned upside down,

     When fiction becomes truth and truth becomes fiction.

     When a global military agenda is heralded as a humanitarian endeavor,

     When the killing of civilians is upheld as "collateral damage",

     When those who resist the US-NATO led invasion of their homeland are categorized as "insurgents" or "terrorists".

     When preemptive nuclear war is upheld as self defense.

     When advanced torture and "interrogation" techniques are routinely used to "protect peacekeeping operations",

     When tactical nuclear weapons are heralded by the Pentagon as "harmless to the surrounding civilian population"

     When three quarters of US personal federal income tax revenues are allocated to financing what is euphemistically referred to as "national defense"

     When the Commander in Chief of the largest military force on planet earth is presented as a global peace-maker,

     When the Lie becomes the Truth.

     Michael Chossudovsky 10/11/09

     Nothing more to be said!

     Posted by foxlies at 10/11/2009 @ 06:09am

103. All the rationalizing in the world will not change the travesty rendered by the Nobel Committee in selecting Obama as its Peace Prize recipient. He should have gracefully declined because accepting the award is an insult to the many people around the world who put their lives on the line in attempting, sometimes successfully, in ameliorating the worst forms of terrorism--and the most prevasive--state terrorism. What exactly has Obama accomplished for peace? Nada. The talking heads and Obama supporters like Melissa Harris-Lacewell are pointing to his rhetoric. He's a politician. Talk is cheap, representing no more than appearances. Obviously, there are those who operate on a faith-based approach to change in the US and now Scandinavia.

     In my opinion, the ONLY American who deserved such an award is Cindy Sheehan, a patriot who Obama has ignored throughout his campaign and his presidency. Until he gets his behind on the mean streets of the world and risks something more than bad breath, he should be totally disrepected. He is a political whimp despite the dementia evident in the Nobel Committee decision to award and his own decision to accept.

     Posted by afrothetics at 10/11/2009 @ 09:03am

104. billions of average peole, when they heard the news, espcially after Carter, and the the idoit in chief, ALGORE received one....had to roll their eys and write of 10 plus years of Nobel "Laureates"..as another "participant" ribbon...who is next? Chavez? Castro for free medical care? Posted by YourJomamma at 10/10/2009 @ 6:00pm

     Billions no, maybe a million or so far right new con repubs that hate the USA. New con repubs feel better that our nation lose than dems win anything. And that's the crust and mantle to your entire argument. Hate is at its core and it has rotted your brain and what little is left of a soul.

     The only thing boxing in Obama are the soulless members of a greed machine that has infected all levels of our society. It cares little in human suffering only in bottom line profits and in the hoarding of that control; even if it means the USA loses.

     Posted by hsuBfools at 10/11/2009 @ 09:59am

105. Gunslinger1, you are appropraitely named, you believe in war and you are as wrong as as Big P and a whole host of warmonging rightys . You want to put me on ignore? Waaa, Not.

     Posted by Denise29 at 10/11/2009 @ 10:27am

106. "You're educated? Proof please..."

     indeed, i am well educated....2 years of post-graduate....plus 2 undergraduate degrees.

     and maasch, A LOT of educated professionals smoke weed. way more than you think.

     and NORML estimates that over 40 million americans regularly use herb.

     it's a good, safe drug.

     and, let me just ask you: do you drink?

     if the answer is yes, then you really have absolutely no business criticizing a pot smoker/eater.

     alcohol is equally bad/good as pot. if not worse (car accidents, violence, anger). plus, herb grows out of the ground. requires nothing but sun/water and my hands. no oil, gas, toxins, plastic needed.

     what's the worst that happens to a pot head? like kat williams says, "hungry, happy, sleepy, those are the effects!"

     Posted by darladoon at 10/11/2009 @ 11:05am

107. Ya Darla, I'd love to do a poll here on how many of the bloggers smoke, but most probably would not answer truthfully.

     Posted by Denise29 at 10/11/2009 @ 11:08am

108. You'll notice, whenever Jommama mentions your smoking, every one of the bloggers just pass over the comment without writing something, why is that, if I noticed it, others have too.

     Posted by Denise29 at 10/11/2009 @ 11:10am

109. denise,

     perhaps another good question would be how many bloggers here are on any form of medication?

     certain anti-depression/anti-anxiety drugs are really, really strong. and they are terrible for the body, and for the environment.

     do people here have any idea how many drugs are flushed into our water supply? it's simply staggering. it's actually a very serious environmental problem.

     but back to the nobel award: liz cheney (of course) objects to obama receiving this award, and thinks that obama should give it to the mother of a fallen soldier who has kept america safe these last 10 years.

     only a cheney would argue that the US military should receive the nobel peace prize.

     do americans (like maasch and bigpasture) have ANY idea what foreigners think of the united states? under bush, they HATED the united states.

     but since obama was elected, our stature has risen, and now with this award, it will rise again.

     and if we stick to this path, things will improve, but republicans have to get on board on stop with this brainless scorched earth policy. it's hurting america.

     Posted by darladoon at 10/11/2009 @ 11:29am

110. I agree, and I agree, war is not the answer, and pot never caused anyone to kill, abuse or hurt other people.

     Posted by Denise29 at 10/11/2009 @ 11:47am

111. I agree, and I agree, war is not the answer, and pot never caused anyone to kill, abuse or hurt other people.

     Posted by Denise29 at 10/11/2009 @ 11:47am

     Unless Jesus was a liar, war will be with us until the Judgment.

     Posted by antisocialist at 10/11/2009 @ 1:18pm

112. I stick by my answer, war is not the answer, I am a mother and I know how I would feel if my children had to fight in war, and I'm an airforce brat so I have heard the discussions for and against, and I still say war is not the answer.

     Posted by Denise29 at 10/11/2009 @ 1:28pm

113. "Unless Jesus was a liar, war will be with us until the Judgment"

     we know jesus lied about at least one thing: his claim to be the son of god.

     thank goodness we jews never bought into that one.

     Posted by darladoon at 10/11/2009 @ 3:08pm

114. we know jesus lied about at least one thing: his claim to be the son of god.

     thank goodness we jews never bought into that one.

     Posted by darladoon at 10/11/2009 @ 3:08pm

     Really Darla? What is your proof?

     Jews never bought into it? Who were His disciples?

     Who were most of the believers in the first few decades of the church?

     Ever hear of Messianic Jews today?

     Posted by antisocialist at 10/11/2009 @ 3:20pm

115. Well, would Jesus give a peace prize to himself?

     Posted by hsuBfools at 10/11/2009 @ 3:38pm

116. Posted by darladoon at 10/10/2009 @ 11:45pm

     I'd like to argue the point with you but when you say you don't support our troops or America itself, I just can't be associated with your 'educated urban liberalism'. It's harming my country.

     Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/11/2009 @ 4:17pm

117. "I'd like to argue the point with you but when you say you don't support our troops or America itself, I just can't be associated with your 'educated urban liberalism'. It's harming my country."

     you really have a short-term memory, don't you? you did place a condition on my support for america and the troops: that i support an escalation of violence in afghanistan, which i fundamentally oppose, and against which i marched in 2001.

     and let's be serious, gunslinger, how am i harming your country? i mean, get a grip, pal.

     the elite corporatists destroyed the economy, and begged the taxpayers for relief, which we gave them.

     and educated urban liberals, like myself, are harming YOUR country?

     you've got some serious nerve making that claim.

     Posted by darladoon at 10/11/2009 @ 4:40pm

118. Posted by darladoon at 10/11/2009 @ 11:05am

     College degrees don't gaurentee an education, as you have so profoundly proven. its what one does with it that can be a greart baramometer.. I have a hard time seeing you as an expert in Swedish health care system...

     I too, have 2 degrees, but I value my travels and experience with other cultures and my ability to come out of difficult, if not completely failed situtations that define "education"...5 degrees in worthless areas of study do not mean you are educated...it simply means you sat through required classes another idiot designed.

     To answer your question, I drink wine with dinner a few times a week and a coule of beers while watching the games...I don't drink and drive and think those that do should go straight to jail. My oldest son has an alcohol issue so I am familiar with the pitfalls. Dope has its obvious pitfalls as well.

     Same with stoners...I believe the AMA actualy recommends 2 glasses of wine or 2 drinks a day for health reasons..I don't recall a similar recommendation for pot..althought many say it helps them "see things better"....

     I have no problem with those who get high to ease chemo or whatever...not my call. I am one of those whothinks pot should be legalised and controled(yup, govt regulated)...

     But I hardly think you are an example of the benefits of pot nor an advocate of education after reading so many of your ,ah, "logic" driven weird posts...

     Posted by YourJomamma at 10/11/2009 @ 4:42pm

119. Well, would Jesus give a peace prize to himself?

     Posted by hsuBfools at 10/11/2009 @ 3:38pm

     no, but liberals would...and do...kinda like Hollywood and the academys..mutual admiration society..my aren't we great!! Stay in it long enough you gat a prize.

     The Nobel Peace Prize has been devalued as much as the dollar after Obama spending stimu..er, payoffs...

     Posted by YourJomamma at 10/11/2009 @ 4:47pm

120. "5 degrees in worthless areas of study do not mean you are educated"

     for the record:

     according to maasch, anthropology, otherwise known as the study of humans, is a "worthless area of study"

     yet another priceless maaschian quote!!

     Posted by darladoon at 10/11/2009 @ 4:51pm

121. "5 degrees in worthless areas of study do not mean you are educated"

     for the record:

     according to maasch, anthropology, otherwise known as the study of humans, is a "worthless area of study"

     yet another priceless maaschian quote!!

     Posted by darladoon at 10/11/2009 @ 4:51pm

     You constantly proove my point regarding the value of your edjacation..your illogic is mind numbing.

     .....read your post...and tell me EXACTLY how you arrived at your" anthropology" statement and how it relates in any way to the sentence fragment you parsed abve?

     Posted by YourJomamma at 10/11/2009 @ 5:16pm

122. Uh Jomamma if you going to argue for or against education you should probably spell "edjacation" right.

     Posted by Denise29 at 10/11/2009 @ 5:35pm

123. Uh Jomamma if you going to argue for or against education you should probably spell "edjacation" right.

     Posted by Denise29 at 10/11/2009 @ 5:35pm

     Really?

     Posted by YourJomamma at 10/11/2009 @ 5:48pm

124. MH-L: "I did not sit in my college classroom fretting about whether my white peers thought I deserved to be studying beside them."

     Of course you shouldn't! You have been properly indoctrinated by the Lib-run education industrial complex....which explains even today, how thousands showed up in Detroit to apply for some free money.........you've been taught well!

     I will state a fact based on my (now mid-50s') career experience. Not a single black professional I've worked with was above average while many non-black minorities, I'd say most, were above-average.

     AA is exactly what the real African American thinkers thought it.......cheapens ALL blacks in the professional workplace....until they prove themselves above-average in performance....a hurdle most just can't surmount.

     No, I am not talking about generally worthless Black Study professionals!

     Posted by Happy at 10/11/2009 @ 7:51pm

125. Well being the messiah allowed him to be quoted I guess. Was Jesus an expert on the Roman Empire? Was this one of 5027 quotes he gave on war and how people would participate in it.Is this a justification of our 21st century nation building. In regards to higher education ,what is wrong with it. On the Nobel prize, if it is a reaction to the last 8 years of American diffidence to the rest of the world take it as such.

     Posted by whatozz at 10/11/2009 @ 7:55pm

126. There is no racial component to the circumstance of President Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize.

     It has absolutely nothing to do with race whatsoever, discussions started by Ms. Lacewell that wound up delving into subjects such as affirmative action and white privileged, are totally misplaced to be tied in with discussion about Nobel Prizes.

     President Obama won the prize because of his policy. His leftist (excuse me, "progressive") policy.

     People at the Nobel committee very clearly lean way to the left. Past winners include Jimmy Carter and Algore, but going beyond that, one year the terrorist murderer Arafat was a co-winner of the prize.

     Obama has done the following over the past year.

     1. He has conducted a world apology tour, apologizing for things that America owes no apology for, but which those on the left think we do.

     2. He made agreements with Russia where he gave up things and got nothing in return. Leftists think this is good - it takes America down a notch.

     3. He made agreements recently with Iran that they will likely try to use to buy time to get the nuke that everyone (other than leftists, it seems) knows they are working on.

     4. He has attempted to put pressure on Israel and seems clearly biased towards the Palestinians with regard to troubles in the Middle East. Libs think that is good. That approach is the wrong approach but libs do not understand that.

     5. He has shown inclination to close Gitmo and give terrorists abilities and rule of law that only should apply to American citizens and not people who do not even follow conventional rules of war that would be subject to the Geneva convention. Libs think this is good.

     All these are wrong and do not bring peace, they bring the opposite of peace, but also bring Nobel Prizes from ignorant libs.

     Posted by sjchermak at 10/11/2009 @ 7:59pm

127. I think that the decision to give President Obama the Nobel prize was at least not enough meditated, however it is a glory that over the last ten years three prominent Democrats: Jimmy Carter, Al Gore, and Barack Obama have won the prize. Is the world trying to say something to Republicans? You bet.

     Posted by Frank42 at 10/10/2009 @ 10:42pm

     Pray tell, what is "the world" saying to repubs? Did "the world" vote for his award? I never got my ballot. I think you're mistaking "the world" for 5 or 6 left-leaning northern Europeans.

     Posted by twillie at 10/11/2009 @ 8:36pm

128. Yes Jomamma really, don't you have spell check at least?

     Posted by Denise29 at 10/11/2009 @ 9:06pm

129. Yes Jomamma really, don't you have spell check at least?

     Posted by Denise29 at 10/11/2009 @ 9:06pm

     I have but I am not familiar with its use as far as the blog windows...would I have to first post on Word, spell check, and then cut and paste it in the blog window? I have windows..

     Posted by YourJomamma at 10/11/2009 @ 9:11pm

130. Jomamma, honestly, I know less than you, anyone out there that can help? I was set up by my son and I have Spell check, magic!

     Posted by Denise29 at 10/11/2009 @ 9:21pm

131. Obama the movement more than the man got the Nobel. The Nobel committee too wants to be historically on. To demonstrate their relevance to where the momentum leads, to future generations. To show they too can shake off the shackles of the past. And in this way, the great white prize of the Norse are giving the in well wishes to the new white: brown.

     Posted by winyahn at 10/11/2009 @ 9:33pm

132. "He has attempted to put pressure on Israel and seems clearly biased towards the Palestinians with regard to troubles in the Middle East. Libs think that is good. That approach is the wrong approach but libs do not understand that"

     (quote of the day)

     it would be incredibly difficult to overstate how utterly simplistic this statement is.

     Posted by darladoon at 10/11/2009 @ 9:34pm

133. maybe john could read.

     that's how i learned to spell.

     Posted by frosty zoom at 10/11/2009 @ 9:36pm

134. It is interesting to note that during the Bush years, Europe was so unhappy with America that they elected Merkel, Sarkozy, and Berlusconi. All of which ran on a platform friendly to the United States, rather than standoffish or indifferent.

     Let's not confuse the opinions of a few Norwegians living in a nice, oil-funded welfare state, with all Europeans.

     Still, this Nobel is indeed historic. It is only the second time a one-term President has been awarded one...

     Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/11/2009 @ 10:12pm

135. Nobel Prize was Given to Obama as an Act of Clumsy Desperation In order to Try to Prop Up Decreasing Domestic Support!

     Don't be impressed by the so-called "Nobel Peace Prize!" The U.S. capitalist dictatorship of millionaires and billionaires always controls who finally receives and who does NOT receive the Nobel Prizes and this includes all areas! Remember that Henry Kissinger, a chief architect with Nixon of the Vietnam War and the Christmas Bombing of Hanoi, was also given the "Nobel Peace Prize," as were warmongers Theodore Roosevelt, and Woodrow Wilson. It was reported that Obama was nominated before February 11, 2009 after only being in office 11 days. This is undoubtedly just one more lie in order to HIDE the fact that the United States directly ordered the Nobel committee to give the prize to Obama NOW primarily in order to try to prop up Obama's WANING DOMESTIC CREDIBILITY to try to build support for his oppressive "Healthcare Overhaul," "Stimulus Plan," "Social. Security Overhaul" (already taking place in the background) and the enormous troop escalations in Afghanistan and Pakistan including the stepped-up drone bombings in Pakistan and Somalia. This also includes the escalated "War on Terror" and Obama's extension of the most oppressive provisions of the Bush/Schumer Patriot Act! On the other hand Republican attacks on Obama for being awarded the Nobel Peace Prize have the effect of providing left cover for Obama, partially shoring up support for Obama among the Democratic Party constituencies through reverse psychology, while tending to move the political process to the right through generally monopolizing the "opposition." And Obama was most certainly NOT given the Nobel Prize for "extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation

     Posted by WHD2 at 10/11/2009 @ 10:34pm

136. But if "the 11-day report" early nomination were true that would be even stronger indication of the direct control of the Nobel committee by the U.S. dictatorship of millionaires and billionaires and early anticipation by the Obama Regime of future decreased domestic support for the Bush/Obama agenda! In either case the Nobel Peace Prize is now even more of a laughing stock than it had been previously. Thus it is no accident that the world's present CHIEF WARMONGER, Barack Obama absurdly received the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize and is a prime example of the first of the 3 Newspeak slogans which appear on the pyramid in George Orwell's famous novel "1984": "WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH." The Nobel Peace Prize was given to Obama in order to try to prop up Obama's diminishing to non-existent "credibility" and phony "popularity" which are disappearing overnight as the Obama Regime continues and/or extends all of the Bush Wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan and tightens and hardens the capitalist dictatorship domestically. Obama is intensifying economic war against the U.S. masses in the form of the so-called "Healthcare Overhaul" and "Social Security Overhaul," while carrying out intensified domestic surveillance under the false pretext of the "War on Terror" or other euphemisms, in order to INTIMIDATE the masses and get them to SUBMIT to the economic war, biological war and propaganda war being waged against them. The Economic War being carried out against the U.S. population is deliberately designed to decrease the U.S. standard of living, which is an objective of the Obama Regime (CNBC, October 9, 2009). Economic War combined with Biological War is designed to reduce the so-called "population demographic," meaning bring people to an earlier d

     Posted by WHD2 at 10/11/2009 @ 10:36pm

137. Economic War combined with Biological War is designed to reduce the so-called "population demographic," meaning bring people to an earlier death in controlled (and maximally denied) mass murder. This is no exaggeration! No hyperbole and is the only explanation which fits the facts. See documentation below. Even the people who voted for Obama are beginning to realize that Obama is much worse than George Bush!

     Posted by WHD2 at 10/11/2009 @ 10:38pm

138. "It is interesting to note that during the Bush years, Europe was so unhappy with America that they elected Merkel, Sarkozy, and Berlusconi"

     this make absolutely no sense whatsoever. europeans detested bush (and always will), and that they voted for center-right candidates in their own countries has nothing to do with their feelings about bush.

     Posted by darladoon at 10/11/2009 @ 11:23pm

139. Clearly, the biggest danger of giving Obama, and in effect, America this award is the adverse effect it may have on Obama's prosecution of the war in Afghanistan. Set aside the problems with Iran and N. Korea for a moment and just focus on Afghanistan.

     Afghanistan's people fear the marines pulling out because thet know what will happen to them at the hands of the taliban. On the other hand, they are really pissed at the collateral damage that has happened at the hands of the Americans heavy weaponery and returning fire with fire when attacked. Innocents have been getting killed.

     So, the order comes down from the chain of command that the marines are not to return fire unless they are sure there are no innicents in the way. But there the ruse. The taliban's tactic is to fire on marine positions and then run back into crowded areas making it impossible for our guys to persue because of the order handed down not to. It's alose lose for our guys. They're supposed to kill the bad guys but who are they. Several of your buddies get killed in a shhotout and you are powerless to persue because of ordersd not to.

     Solution, give McChrystal all 40,000 troops or maybe more to get thje job done. Aamerican troops canno

     Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/11/2009 @ 11:28pm

140. American troops cannont come home until the talibaln are destroyed. We are fighgting to secure a better way of life and because of faulty policy, wanting to fight on the cheap, and an undersupply of troop strength and supplies.

     Common sense dictates that if there is a mission to be accomplished and the generals on the ground say we need this this this and this to succeed, well, give the generals fighting the war what they need so that they can defeat the enemy and bring our boys home.

     Either that or give afghanistan to the taliban and al qaeda and lets just come home so that the weak-need progressive types can start explaining the carnage taking place immediately after we are home.

     In short Mr. Obama, make a decision because everytime the story shows up on 60 Minutes or some other invrestigative report, you come up looking like a schoolboy who wants to join the tough guys put he doesn't have the street smarts. Let your hand-picked Gen. do his job. Give himwhat he needs and then get out of the way. He'll call you. WOULD YOU SEND TIGER WOODS OUT TO A MAJOR TOURNEY WITHOUT HIS CLUBS?

     Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/11/2009 @ 11:52pm

141. "I will accept this award as a call to action, a call for all nations and all peoples to confront the common challenges of the 21st century. These challenges won't all be met during my presidency, or even my lifetime. But I know these challenges can be met so long as it's recognized that they will not be met by one person or one nation alone."

     Whoever said that, Wow, that's real sophistry. That guy's becoming a real Tony Blair.

     Have your cake and eat it. Now he can go to war in Iraq, Afghanistan, and maybe Iran....AND cash in on the Nobel.

     But I think the Strategic Air Command was there first with their old motto: "Peace is Our Profession".

     Or was it George Orwell in his 1984: " War is Peace!"?

     Wow! Melissa, you really whiten up President Obama!

     Posted by TLeung at 10/12/2009 @ 08:07am

142. this make absolutely no sense whatsoever. europeans detested bush (and always will), and that they voted for center-right candidates in their own countries has nothing to do with their feelings about bush.

     Posted by darladoon at 10/11/2009 @ 11:23pm

     Ah, but the narrative on the left from those days was that international opinion about America was at a low ebb. One of Obama's campaign lines was that he would repair America's image due to the Bush years.

     Obama would not need to "repair" anything if it was just Bush they disliked, correct?

     But as I pointed out, Berlusconi, Sarkozy, and Merkel all ran with "pro-America" platforms and won.

     But this obsession with whether or not Europeans "approve" of America is a curious affectation of the American Left. Do you suppose Europeans sit around worrying that Americans may not approve of them? Or if we regard them with indifference? Was Merkel's campaign the subject of daily front page news in America as any American election seems to be in Europe's papers?

     Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/12/2009 @ 08:22am

143. First, expanding on Melissa's view: Nobel Prize is not some kind of aspirational award, and accepting a peace prize would not make it harder for Obama to wage unnecessary wars, maintain irresponsible occupations, or support bloated Pentagon budgets. By this absurd logic, the prize should go to the crudest dictators â€" tough call this year, although the thugs in Myanmar are certainly competitive -- on the theory that international accolades might shame them into behaving themselves. Thus the Peace Nobel Prize both downgrades President Obama the great statesman on the same peer with murderer Dalai Lama, and cheapens the Nobel award to lifting the latter from his dark abyss. What a 21st century fable of laying down his blood-stained butcher knife to becoming a Buddha overnight!

     Despite your view that the Nobel Peace Prize is and should always be given with the purpose of honoring action not aspiration, the whole point of the award is to recognize bold, and presumably, courageous, endeavors in pursuit of a more peaceful and functional planet.

     Even that, however, there is certain priority one must not overlook. It was such a disgusting and insulting scene when our Republican Senators chorused with praise as the highest honor when a kneeling President Reagan was knighted by Queen of England. There goes 1776 and our Constitution.

     I'd say: no foreign nation or foreign dignitary can award a higher honor to our elected President. Such disillusion and such complacency only downgrades and belittles the American Electorate. An American President elected by the American citizens must remain the highest honor of the land. Nobel Prize is a just gesture however nice a gesture it maybe.

     Posted by TLeung at 10/12/2009 @ 08:27am

144. Melissa, it never rain but pours. Are you ready fior more?

     Since you brought forth Obama's "A Call For Action", the stated reason for fighting terrorism comes to question: Curiously shortsighted and inverted stance here on "terrorism", which is often precisely a result of the victimization of the weak. A desperate response of the weak to the cowardly brutality of the powerful. The Twin Towers was a "blowback" from decades of intervention and attacks, direct or by proxy, on the Middle East. Any law and order without justice is a sham. It is criminalizing the victims. Is that not obvious?

     Posted by TLeung at 10/12/2009 @ 08:37am

145. Well, would Jesus give a peace prize to himself? Posted by hsuBfools at 10/11/2009 @ 3:38pm no, but liberals would... The Nobel Peace Prize has been devalued as much as the dollar after Obama spending stimu..er, payoffs... Posted by YourJomamma at 10/11/2009 @ 4:47pm

     Yet new con repubs want to dictate to whom the Nobel goes to because the recipients are nothing like themselves. It'd be like a camel trying get thro... Oh, never mind.

     Posted by hsuBfools at 10/12/2009 @ 08:51am

146. TLeung, it is unfortunate to consider the Nobel committee could've awarded this to a Chinese dissident held in one of their gulags.

     At least it would've shown an embarassing, illuminating light on China for a few days by highlighting the fact they put people in prison for outrageous things like practicing religion at home in secret, breathing exercises, or voicing the opinion that elections should involve more than one political party.

     At best, it may have resulted in getting at least one Chinese dissident out of that gulag due to international attention.

     The Grammy Award-Winning Obama doesn't need another "accolade" to motivate him. His ego and desire for the limelight will provide all the impetus needed.

     Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/12/2009 @ 08:53am

147. Yet new con repubs want to dictate to whom the Nobel goes to because the recipients are nothing like themselves. It'd be like a camel trying get thro... Oh, never mind.

     Posted by hsuBfools at 10/12/2009 @ 08:51am

     Well, the first President I know of who talked about getting rid of nuclear weapons was Ronald Reagan. He and Gorby were discussing nuke reductions at Reykjavik, making progress, when Reagan asked why it wouldn't be possible to get rid of all of them. He wasn't kidding. Contrary to the mythos built up around Reagan, the man was horrified by nuclear weapons.

     So if we're going to talk about giving the Nobel based on 12 days in office before being nominated and ASPIRATIONS, let's talk about aspirations.

     Reagan's aspiration was to consign the worlds biggest totalitarian state to the ash heap of history. And he did it in part with military spending and by highlighting the Soviet Union's illiberal characteristics. By taking an adversarial approach when needed, or by offerring assistance when approprate.

     When it came to achieving his aspirations, Reagan was more than just talk. He was action. Of course, there are many in the world who will never forgive him for creating an environment that made it impossible for the Soviet Union to survive.

     When it came to aspirations, Reagan's were bigger...and many of them were realized in time. That wall came down. When the rest of the Warsaw Pact saw Poland just walk away from it with no consequences, they realized they could do it too.

     There is at least one statue of Reagan in Poland. And a street named in his honor. I think one is given to Thatcher as well. The Poles, at least, know the real deal when they saw it. Recognize real achievement, even if our own academics waste barrels of ink claiming it wasn't s

     Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/12/2009 @ 09:20am

148. Just re-read my posts from last night. Too much beer watching a great day of sports action. Either that or it was past my bedtime. Sorry for all the typos.

     Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/12/2009 @ 10:21am

149. "When it came to achieving his aspirations, Reagan was more than just talk"

     yeah, he was 'proxy wars' in central/south america. he was selling arms to iran to fight them. that's "action"

     and, as for your insinuation that obama is "all talk," perhaps he is, but those talks created more progress for peace (with iran, meaning) than the entire bush two-term presidency.

     Posted by darladoon at 10/12/2009 @ 10:40am

150. why one must ask why reagan didn't receive an award, an obama did, is, to me, just a total waste of time.

     Posted by darladoon at 10/12/2009 @ 10:44am

151. "His ego and desire for the limelight will provide all the impetus needed"

     oh, shut up!

     Posted by darladoon at 10/12/2009 @ 10:45am

152. Posted by darladoon at 10/12/2009 @ 10:45am

     Darla. You're awfully cranky lately, calling people stupid, telling people to shut up, etc. Last night I watched 60 Minutes and saw the story on the effort to win hearts and minds in Afghanistan at the cost of their own lives. One scene showed a beautiful field of green marijuana that our troops destroyed. Now I understand why you want us out of there.

     Posted by gunslinger1 at 10/12/2009 @ 12:01pm

153. "One scene showed a beautiful field of green marijuana that our troops destroyed. Now I understand why you want us out of there"

     uh, i want us out of there because not only is afghanistan utterly peripheral to our "mission" (of defeating al qaeda), nor because i am fundamentally opposed to the slaughter of innocent people to achieve geo-political leverage in the so-called 'war on terror'; but because no army can possibly defeat afghanistan. there is nothing in afghanistan to take or take over. even if we remove the taliban every single taliban from power (which is impossible), they will return. the rural areas of afghanistan are utterly inhospitable. and the entire rural male population is stoned on opiated hash all day long. literally.

     there is no mission there. we are sitting ducks. and we are wasting 200 billion/annual. meanwhile, can't even pay to insure the uninsured here.

     Posted by darladoon at 10/12/2009 @ 12:28pm

154. When it came to aspirations, Reagan's were bigger...and many of them were realized in time. Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/12/2009 @ 09:20am

     Oh yeah-- more US military death during Raygun's two terms (21,229) vs hsuB's (12,390)!?! Gets the almost peaceful award-- not; w/out even any war(s)... WTF.

     http://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf

     http://tinyurl.com/yl2qm8o

     And I'm not even citing the class war Raygun laser-beamed on... I'd give him an award you know where!

     Posted by hsuBfools at 10/12/2009 @ 1:17pm

155. according to maasch, anthropology, otherwise known as the study of humans, is a "worthless area of study"

     yet another priceless maaschian quote!!

     Posted by darladoon at 10/11/2009 @ 4:51pm

     It is a worthless field of study.

     Posted by antisocialist at 10/12/2009 @ 1:59pm

156. For the non-science believers anti-evolving types of course.

     Posted by hsuBfools at 10/12/2009 @ 2:03pm

157. anthropology is a "worthless area of study"????

     omfg

     Posted by darladoon at 10/12/2009 @ 2:17pm

158. if it weren't for anthropologists, then we would absolutely no understanding of the life of jesus, other than the bible, which, as we all know, is incredibly incomplete, not to mention, partially fabricated mythology.

     Posted by darladoon at 10/12/2009 @ 2:18pm

159. if it weren't for anthropologists, then we would absolutely no understanding of the life of jesus, other than the bible, which, as we all know, is incredibly incomplete, not to mention, partially fabricated mythology.

     Posted by darladoon at 10/12/2009 @ 2:18pm

     Nonsense, anthropologists have done nothing to provide any understanding of Jesus.

     There is no service of value that anthropology provides to advance either sociiety or man's relationship with G-d.

     Posted by antisocialist at 10/12/2009 @ 3:11pm

160. "Nonsense, anthropologists have done nothing to provide any understanding of Jesus."

     (quote of the decade)

     Posted by darladoon at 10/12/2009 @ 3:25pm

161. "There is no service of value that anthropology provides to advance either sociiety or man's relationship with G-d."

     but your satellite package, which you pay for and with which you entertain yourself, and which was created by scientific engineers, does so?

     Posted by darladoon at 10/12/2009 @ 3:48pm

162. The U.S. military deserve the Nobel Peace Prize for ending the famine in Somalia, stopping the genocide in Kosovo, preserving the peace between the two Korea's, maintaining a buffer in the Sinai between Israel and Egypt, overthrowning brutal, murderous regimes in Iraq and Afganistan and for keeping Russia from moving on Europe during the Cold War. These valiant men gave up their life and limbs and continue to do so in order for others to be free and they deserve the award and they more then earned it. They are not partisan, nor are they are war hungry. They have done more to preserve the peace the past sixty years than any other country or individual person.

     Posted by mjkoch at 10/12/2009 @ 4:04pm

163. "The U.S. military deserve the Nobel Peace Prize for ending the famine in Somalia, stopping the genocide in Kosovo, preserving the peace between the two Korea's, maintaining a buffer in the Sinai between Israel and Egypt, overthrowning brutal, murderous regimes in Iraq and Afganistan"

     let's see, which of the above doesn't fit?

     Posted by darladoon at 10/12/2009 @ 4:08pm

164. Obama said himself he didn't deserve it, and the Nobel committee explained why they did it, and isnt it obvious they gave it to him to show appreciation to Americans for being intelligent enough not to elect the PNAC sign-er, Killer McCain.

     Posted by DPGrassley at 10/12/2009 @ 4:30pm

165. There is no service of value that anthropology provides to advance either sociiety or man's relationship with G-d. Posted by antisocialist at 10/12/2009 @ 3:11pm

     Perhaps so no more historical documentation will be dug up concerning the story of Jesus paralleling prior pagan myths and customs, i.e. Horus/Osiris/Ra, a trinity Egyptian god-type personification, ...

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osiris

     But hey, no awards-- please.

     Posted by hsuBfools at 10/12/2009 @ 4:31pm

166. yeah, he was 'proxy wars' in central/south america. he was selling arms to iran to fight them. that's "action"

     and, as for your insinuation that obama is "all talk," perhaps he is, but those talks created more progress for peace (with iran, meaning) than the entire bush two-term presidency.

     Posted by darladoon at 10/12/2009 @ 10:40am

     Correction, we were grossly overcharging the Iranians for weapons so that freedom fighters in Central America could resist a communist totalitarian state that was threatening to turn their world into a Cuban style cesspool of poverty, thuggery, and one party dictatorial rule.

     And Obama's talk has created more progress for peace? How? By pretending the Iranians haven't yet made up their minds about what they are going to build? That they still have a decision to make?

     They've already made that decision. The only thing left to do is watch the Neville Chamberlain Theater Production of "Peace in Our Time".

     Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/12/2009 @ 5:01pm

167. And what about Honduras? We're backing a nutcase who is now claiming the Israelis are trying to kill him with toxic gas and torturing him with high frequency radiation.

     Uh huh. Yeah. Because the Israelis, you know, give a crap about who the President of Honduras is and would expend money and resources to torture him with toxic gas and radiation rather than just put a bullet in him.

     Yeah, this is the guy Team Obama is backing. But why?

     Because it was a military coup. It has said so right here on this website a bunch of times.

     Except it wasn't, because the military isn't running Honduras right now. Your classic, mustachioed, cigar-chomping Generalissimo in a starched uniform. You know, like Castro, pistol holster and all. What happened is Zelaya violated the Honduran Constitution. The clause that says a President can't even talk about altering the Constitution while he is in office. The clause that says you can be immediately impeached if you do so.

     He did. The Supreme Court warned him to stop. He didn't, because Castro/Chavez wannabes like him don't think they have to answer to a social contract.

     The Supreme Court and the Legislature exercised simple "checks and balances" and removed the lawbreaker from office. As they are OBLIGATED to do under their own Constitution.

     And who did America back? The law and order guys? Nope. The crackpot who claims the Israelis are bombarding him with radiation. Get him a tinfoil hat.

     Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/12/2009 @ 5:17pm

168. Hey anti, here's a good one for you:

     http://tinyurl.com/ygouwej

     Posted by hsuBfools at 10/12/2009 @ 5:24pm

169. Does anyone know why more military died during Raygun's presidency than during hsuB's or Clinton's; almost combined!?

     Of course that's pre-9/11 too...

     So maybe we should give Raygun a secret smallish cracked-up noble-less -p prize?

     Posted by hsuBfools at 10/12/2009 @ 5:44pm

170. "if it weren't for anthropologists, then we would absolutely no understanding of the life of jesus, other than the bible, which, as we all know, is incredibly incomplete, not to mention, partially fabricated mythology."

     Posted by darladoon at 10/12/2009 @ 2:18pm

     Uninformed quote of the week.

     We have NO understanding of the life of Jesus, other than the Bible. No contemporary accounts. No independent biographies. No mention in Roman Empire records. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

     So much for 2000 years of research by those hard-working anthropologists.

     Honestly, darla, you should do a little research before making inane statements like this.

     omfg is right.

     Posted by twillie at 10/12/2009 @ 9:54pm

171. hsuBfools, how many soldiers died under FDR? Or Kennedy? Lyndon Johnson?

     The difference here that nobody seems to have articulated yet is that conservatives have a different definition of "peace" than do liberals.

     For conservatives, "peace" is not merely the absence of conflict or war.

     That sort of peace is really pretty easy to create. For example, Europe would've been pretty peaceful and "war-free" once it was united under Hitler and the Soviet Union crushed.

     Or united under the Soviets with Hitler crushed, if you prefer. Makes no difference.

     Peace without individual liberty or rights, with some overlord terrifying you into compliace and submission is not any sort of peace that I would value. Some people around here will obviously settle for a lot less than that.

     Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/12/2009 @ 10:15pm

172. Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 10/12/2009 @ 10:15pm

     So do you know why more military died during Raygun's presidency than during hsuB's or Clinton's; almost combined!?

     Posted by hsuBfools at 10/12/2009 @ 11:19pm

173. Ok so i don't want to be a "HATER" but i think the only reason Obama got the NPP is because he is the first black president and because people want him to bring "CHANGE". Right? i think it's a little to early. maybe he will bring peace and change but he still has over 3 years to prove himself. every president should talk to other countries for peace. Just because George Bush didn't fill his duties doesn't make Obama a saint for doing so.

     Posted by brittish at 10/13/2009 @ 10:31am