U of Cal Budget Protests Draw Thousands

Thursday was a "Day of Action" against draconian budget cuts at the University of California campuses, and thousands of people rallied in protest at all ten campuses. At UC Berkeley, 5,000 students and workers, along with many faculty members, rallied at noon. At the same hour at UCLA, 700 students and workers and a few faculty members gathered at Bruin Plaza. And 500 rallied at UC Irvine, which Time magazine described as "normally placid."

The normally placid UC Irvine is where I teach.

The best sign I saw at the UCI rally read "If I wanted to go to a private school, I would have been born into a rich family."

The problem lies in Sacramento, where the state budget crisis led the legislature to cut its support for the university 20 per cent. The ten-campus system has been told to cut $637 million this year. The system has announced massive staff layoffs and a big hike in student fees. Next year tuition will go up 45 percent, to $10,302.

Since California voters passed Prop. 13 in 1978, a two-thirds vote in the legislature has been required to raise taxes, giving the Republicans a stranglehold on the budget.

With similarly draconian cuts and fee increases at the 23 state colleges, public higher education in California is facing its deepest crisis ever.

At the rally at UC Riverside, where the temperature reached 100 degrees, Mike Davis of the writing program told 500 students and union members, "the problem is not just the UC dream is receding, but that our kids are simultaneously being pushed out of the state universities and junior colleges, trade schools and adult schools.

"At a time when everyone wants to be, needs to be, and should be, going back to school, enrollments are being capped or reduced, classes cancelled, fees raised, and the youngest, brightest but most vulnerable faculty and staff fired. . . . Can you imagine how this frustration and disappointment is backing up into the high schools, even the middle schools and grade schools?"

At UC Irvine, Anthropology Professor Victoria Bernal said "We are taking something that by all measures is a great success and tearing it down. . . . Public education is a fundamental cornerstone of democracy in America. Without it only the well-to-do will receive the education and skills you need to take leadership positions in society."

Thursday's rallies were organized by UPTE, representing 12,000 University Professional and Technical Employees, and endorsed by CUE (Coalition of University Employees), representing over 13,000 staff, the AFT, and by the UC Student Association (UCSA), representing over 200,000 students, as well as a faculty group of more than 1,000.

Comments (69)

1. Welp there goes the amazing university system in California. I guess the Republican's finally got what they wanted here.

   Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 1:15pm

2. Can't let a CRISIS go to WASTE......RIGHTO?!

   Now, how about a novel, Hopey and Changey way to deal with the reality of the need for austerity?

   Any guesses?????

   Reform/revise the tenure system!

   Tenured profs that pawn off most teaching to slaving grad students and basically don't do much constructive but serve as `figure heads'; particularly in the liberal arts areas (yea, that includes history, polisci, anthropology, journo junkism, etc.).....

   Cut loose these Boomer profs and let them try making a living on blogs! I'll bet simply cutting off 1/4 to 1/3 of the deadwood profs can generate at least the $600 million+ shortfall!

   Maybe the next Governator in Cali can make this `Crisis' disappear......attack and dismantle the tenure system!

   Posted by Happy at 09/25/2009 @ 1:16pm

3. ".... a two-thirds vote in the legislature has been required to raise taxes, giving the Republicans a stranglehold on the budget."

   But, but, but I thought the Dems controled the budget......

   and 2/3 majority required to raise taxes? How, how, how mean.

   So, for the first time in history a University system, which receives HUGE checks from govt has to actualy live within its budget and expenses?

   OMG...and maybe let some Profs go? A shoratge of all those viable course in the system offerings may have to be cut? No more classes on sex?

   With al of those very important profs, intellectuals, and "best of the brightest" in the nation, none of them, not one noticed that CALIFORNIA is broke, hemmoraging wealthy earners and companies, drowning in illegals, and in general after decades of being dominated by the Democrats and liberals in every field... after all this, no one ereally noticed where the money was coming from and that it might run out?

   And it is the fault of the republicans?...and the fault of those other greedy bastards...the tax payers who pay for all they do...?

   Welcome to reality..you made yours, so now accept layoffs and price increases like everyone else...and get used to it..more liberal solutions on the way...Inflation!!!

   I'm shocked, shocked to find gambling here....

   Educated morons to the world around them.

   Good news tho, govt is...hiring.

   Posted by YourJomamma at 09/25/2009 @ 1:21pm

4. I'm so glad you raised this subject Mr Weiner. I am one of the many Californians OUTRAGED by these insolent, ungrateful protestors and even more so against the idiot professors I heard leading some of the chants and speeches.

   Berkely was the worst with the protestors calling for free college education.

   California is the highest taxed state in the union.

   This year they DID raise taxes on everyone. For instance, they doubled our car tax and put a surcharge on our income tax.

   at 10,000 per year Berkely is still a great deal.

   I would like to see them crack down on these marxist professors that led these protests and kick out many of these insolent and ungrateful brats that call themselves students.

   Posted by antisocialist at 09/25/2009 @ 1:27pm

5. Mr Wiener, you should get Michelle Malkin to count your protest numbers....

   she can find "ABC News" stories that will multiply that 5000 and get it to come out at 300-400,000!!!

   heheh

   Posted by Mask at 09/25/2009 @ 1:30pm

6. "..at 10,000 per year Berkely is still a great deal. "

   I bet many parents find it very expensive considering what they get in return...

   Posted by YourJomamma at 09/25/2009 @ 1:54pm

7. The enrollment rate for 18-24 year olds in higher education as a percentage of all 18-24 year olds was (2001):

   US: 36% France: 31% United Kingdom: 22% Germany: 15%

   http:/ /nces.ed.gov/programs/ youthindicators /Indicators.asp?PubPageNumber=23

   Should the US emulate the higher education practices of Europe? Discuss.

   Posted by HonestLiberal at 09/25/2009 @ 2:07pm

8. I'm so glad you raised this subject Mr Weiner. I am one of the many Californians OUTRAGED by these insolent, ungrateful protestors and even more so against the idiot professors I heard leading some of the chants and speeches.

   Berkely was the worst with the protestors calling for free college education.

   California is the highest taxed state in the union.

   This year they DID raise taxes on everyone. For instance, they doubled our car tax and put a surcharge on our income tax.

   at 10,000 per year Berkely is still a great deal.

   I would like to see them crack down on these marxist professors that led these protests and kick out many of these insolent and ungrateful brats that call themselves students.

   Posted by antisocialist at 09/25/2009 @ 1:27pm

   Once again you repeat as lie Anti. We aren't the highest taxed state in the union.

   Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 2:17pm

9. It's weird you are all complaining about how we shouldn't have to pay for the colleges but the reason California has some of the best colleges in the country is because we have paid for them. Education....who needs it?

   Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 2:19pm

10. US: 36% France: 31% United Kingdom: 22% Germany: 15%

    Should the US emulate the higher education practices of Europe? Discuss.

    Posted by HonestLiberal at 09/25/2009 @ 2:07pm

    The average of the 3 non-US percentages is ~23% as vs. the US's 36%.

    The difference, 13% (= 36% - 23%), is where the bulk of the whiney Libs that can't find a `good-paying' job and turn to protesting Wal-Mart, G-20, and hollering for expanded welfare state...come from!

    Posted by Happy at 09/25/2009 @ 2:22pm

11. Let's just dissolve all of our major state run universities. What use are they anyway? Let's just make everyone pay 40,000 to 80,000 a year for college?

    By the way Larry. Berkely non-resident fees each semester is 16,000 dollars. Now there's two semesters a year as far as I know. Which means it's 30,000 dollars a year not 10,000 if you are a non-resident, 10,000 if you are from California. That's not including living on campus.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 2:26pm

12. By the way Larry. Berkely non-resident fees each semester is 16,000 dollars. Now there's two semesters a year as far as I know. Which means it's 30,000 dollars a year not 10,000 if you are a non-resident, 10,000 if you are from California. That's not including living on campus.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 2:26pm

    I wasn't talking about nonresident fees. I don't care what they charge nonresidents. It could be a 100k.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/25/2009 @ 2:30pm

13. <Once again you repeat as lie Anti. We aren't the highest taxed state in the union.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 2:17pm>

    I stand by my statement.

    <California has the highest upper marginal personal income tax rate in the United States – 10.3%. In 2004, California's individual income tax collections were $1,016 per person, which ranked 8th-highest nationally. Since most small businesses are S Corporations, partnerships, or sole proprietorships, they pay their business taxes at the rates for individuals. That makes California's taxes on small businesses some of the most burdensome in the nation (Source: Tax Foundation).

    The state's second-highest personal income tax bracket (9.3%), collected on those earning only $43,467 or more in taxable income, ranks below only Vermont's 9.5% rate (Source: Reason Foundation).

    California has seven personal income tax brackets. Only six other states have more personal income tax brackets (Source: Pacific Research Institute calculations based on Tax Foundation data).

    California has the highest state sales tax rate in the United States (7.25%) (Source: Retirement Living)

    California's 8.84% flat corporate income tax rate is the highest corporate tax rate in the West (10.84% on financial institutions). Nationally, only 11 states have a higher top corporate income tax rate than California. In 2004, corporate tax collections in California were $193 per capita, which ranked 7th-highest nationally. The minimum corporate income tax is $800 per corporation. (Source: Tax Foundation).>

    http://business.pacificresearch.org/ca-tax-facts

    Additionally, we pay the highest fuel taxes in the nation at 64.5 cents total per gal. The average is 47 cents.

    http://tinyurl.com/y8nfb5y

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/25/2009 @ 2:50pm

14. Posted by antisocialist at 09/25/2009 @ 2:50pm

    I love you Californians........anytime some Libs pipe up about how regressive we are here in TX (or fill in your state that is not yet beyond Hoepy and Changey), all we need to say is: "You want to see us end up like California where 800,000 Americans have left this decade?"

    Posted by Happy at 09/25/2009 @ 2:54pm

15. "You want to see us end up like California where 800,000 Americans have left this decade?"

    Posted by Happy at 09/25/2009 @ 2:54pm

    If gerrymandering prevents your vote from counting, you can always vote with your feet.

    Posted by Mistral at 09/25/2009 @ 2:57pm

16. I wasn't talking about nonresident fees. I don't care what they charge nonresidents. It could be a 100k.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/25/2009 @ 2:30pm

    Why because they aren't from California?

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 3:00pm

17. Additionally, we pay the highest fuel taxes in the nation at 64.5 cents total per gal. The average is 47 cents.

    http://tinyurl.com/y8nfb5y

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/25/2009 @ 2:50pm

    I've already disproved this lie but I guess I will do it again.

    http://tinyurl.com/y8rd8w7

    This time I'm using the forbes 10 states that tax the most article. When you talk about which state taxes it's people the most you have to take into account all factors. This one shows the average tax burden per person. California doesn't even make the top 10.

    The difference between what you are showing and what I am is that I am showing the average tax for everyone. You are shoing a bunch of different taxes and then claiming that because some of them are high therefore we must be number 1. You aren't taking into account reduced property taxes for instance. Or only marginal taxes for businesses.

    http://tinyurl.com/2ynz9v

    On CNN money California is number 12.

    http://tinyurl.com/gadh4

    According to the CENSUS when you do tax per capita we are only rank 10 in the nation.

    You can stand by your statement, but it's wrong.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 3:10pm

18. http://www.cbp.org/pdfs/2009/0902_Californias_Tax_System.pdf

    If you take a look at this PDF you can see how California compares accross the board to the average of the US on slide number 19.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 3:15pm

19. Just face it on this one you have bought into a lie.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 3:17pm

20. antisocialist: "For instance, they doubled our car tax and put a surcharge on our income tax."

    --Does the state of California send you a bill for your car tax, or does the town where you claim your car is parked most of the year send you a bill? In Connecticut the towns are responsible, and the amount CT residents pay differs depending on the town's mill rate. If it's different in California please tell me how it works.

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/25/2009 @ 3:20pm

21. I wasn't talking about nonresident fees. I don't care what they charge nonresidents. It could be a 100k.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/25/2009 @ 2:30pm

    Why because they aren't from California?

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 3:00pm

    Sure, let them go to school in their own state or pay the price.

    Non resident tuition helps hold down the tuition costs for resident students.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/25/2009 @ 3:21pm

22. According to the CENSUS when you do tax per capita we are only rank 10 in the nation.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 3:10pm

    So it would seem that in California the working classes (non-collegians) qre not taxed sufficiently to support the (college bound) intelligentsia?

    Posted by Mistral at 09/25/2009 @ 3:38pm

23. --Does the state of California send you a bill for your car tax, or does the town where you claim your car is parked most of the year send you a bill? In Connecticut the towns are responsible, and the amount CT residents pay differs depending on the town's mill rate. If it's different in California please tell me how it works.

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/25/2009 @ 3:20pm

    The state bills you.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/25/2009 @ 3:48pm

24. So it would seem that in California the working classes (non-collegians) qre not taxed sufficiently to support the (college bound) intelligentsia?

    Posted by Mistral at 09/25/2009 @ 3:38p

    Go back and read the entire discussion. You are completely out of context so your comment is pointless.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 3:49pm

25. You can stand by your statement, but it's wrong.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 3:10pm

    You're wrong and you remain wrong. This is the most oppressive tax state in the US.

    What our marxist state legislature has done for the past twenty years is criminal. they should all be tarred and feathered and never allowed to hold public office again.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/25/2009 @ 3:50pm

26. You are completely out of context so your comment is pointless.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 3:49pm

    It's a fair question. Either the taxpayers (plumbers, housewives, bus drivers, cabbage pickers) are being taxed at too high a rate to support those fortunate few who get to go to college...or they aren't. At least it's not as bad as it was when there were student draft deferments: then you really saw the intelligentsia riding high at the expense of the working class.

    Posted by Mistral at 09/25/2009 @ 3:59pm

27. --Does the state of California send you a bill for your car tax, or does the town where you claim your car is parked most of the year send you a bill? In Connecticut the towns are responsible, and the amount CT residents pay differs depending on the town's mill rate. If it's different in California please tell me how it works. Posted by urmygyro at 09/25/2009 @ 3:20pm The state bills you. Posted by antisocialist at 09/25/2009 @ 3:48pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    --interesting. so no towns bill, right? there isn't a double taxing?

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/25/2009 @ 4:07pm

28. You can stand by your statement, but it's wrong. Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 3:10pm You're wrong and you remain wrong. This is the most oppressive tax state in the US. What our marxist state legislature has done for the past twenty years is criminal. they should all be tarred and feathered and never allowed to hold public office again. Posted by antisocialist at 09/25/2009 @ 3:50pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    --I think the NT would disapprove tarring and feathering Larry...

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/25/2009 @ 4:09pm

29. --I think the NT would disapprove tarring and feathering Larry...

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/25/2009 @ 4:09pm

    It was meant symbolically.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/25/2009 @ 4:12pm

30. You're wrong and you remain wrong. This is the most oppressive tax state in the US.

    What our marxist state legislature has done for the past twenty years is criminal. they should all be tarred and feathered and never allowed to hold public office again.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/25/2009 @ 3:50pm

    Can you refute that facts I showed? Or are you just taking the stance that I am wrong with no actual evidence to back that up?

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 4:41pm

31. I mean I can do this all day Larry. I will just keep pulling up facts that disprove your assertion. Why don't you just admit you were wrong and walk away instead of looking like a kook who refuses to believe the facts even when he is beat over the head with them?

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 4:44pm

32. Hmmm..... could it be the truck convoy's stacked up at the borders of california taking viable businesses to other states along with taxpaying workers sick to death of the blighted liberal Demoncrat utiopia? No wonder their atmospheric tax rates and cost of living is being shunned with all the "gimme" programs state Demoncrats rammed through in the last 50 yrs!

    Come to Oklahoma! Great open spaces, cheap land, cheap houses, and low cost of living and a fantastic business and education environment! Oh, and no liberal socialistic Demoncrats!

    Posted by BigPasture at 09/25/2009 @ 4:48pm

33. I mean you basically just said:

    "You may have the facts on your side but you are wrong and I refuse to believe them instead I'm going to go on some insane rant about tarring and feathering politicians rather than acting like a rational and informed person."

    Do you not see a problem with that?

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 4:53pm

34. Oh and the next time you claim it's the left who refuse to look at the facts instead continue to make things up I will remind you of this moment.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 4:54pm

35. Why don't we just have Hollywood liberals who make millions a year give half their money directly to the UC system? That would be "fair", wouldn't it?

    Posted by freiheit1 at 09/25/2009 @ 5:51pm

36. Why don't we just have Hollywood liberals who make millions a year give half their money directly to the UC system? That would be "fair", wouldn't it?

    Posted by freiheit1 at 09/25/2009 @ 5:51pm

    No because it's not only Hollywood liberals but the children of conservatives who rail against it that use it too. Funny that you jumped straight to the stupid epithet of Hollywood liberals instead of trying to have a substantive conversation.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 5:57pm

37. Come to Oklahoma! Great open spaces, cheap land, cheap houses, and low cost of living and a fantastic business and education environment! Oh, and no liberal socialistic Demoncrats! Posted by BigPasture at 09/25/2009 @ 4:48pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    --and no one to debate apparently...

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/25/2009 @ 6:00pm

38. Can you refute that facts I showed? Or are you just taking the stance that I am wrong with no actual evidence to back that up?

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 4:41pm

    Contrary to your multiple accusations, what we have is competing facts. What that really means is how the taxes are interpreted.

    On some there is no dispute.

    California has the highest fuel and sales taxes in the nation.

    California has the highest income tax in the nation. One fact I consistently see not applied by those who downplay the CA taxes, especially the income tax are how people are taxed. CA has the lowest threshold for the maximum rate (44k for a single person). CA has a personal exemption and standard deduction credits that are about the lowest in the nation. Some give thousands where CA gives $99 per person pers exemption.

    CA's business tax is listed as the highest in the 8 Western States and among the highest in the nation.

    Perhaps the only area where we are no longer at the top is in the property tax. Yet we still are no that low. It is obviously higher in states that do not have a state income tax.

    We obviously will continue to see this differently because you seem to like high taxation. I believe most of it is not only too high but unneccessary.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/25/2009 @ 8:12pm

39. More for CCC,

    The Census Bureau figures are the most inaccurate of all calculations by their own standards and data

    <The ranking tables should be interpreted with caution; analysis based on rankings or per capita statistics can be misleading and misinterpreted because of subtle yet important differences in state government organization and economic structure. For example, using total taxes or per capita taxes as a measure of tax burden on the citizens of that state can be misleading because different states use different approaches to taxation, comparing only the total taxes collected by each state is not enough to understand the economic impact of those states' taxes – one must also understand how those taxes are collected. Comparing taxes across states can be difficult. The Census Bureau's statistics on tax revenue reflect taxes a state collects from activity within the state, not necessarily from its people within a state.

    Use caution in attempting to draw conclusions from direct comparisons of revenue amounts for individual state governments. Some states directly administer activities that elsewhere are undertaken by local governments, with or without state fiscal aid. The share of tax collections by state government, therefore, differs materially from one state to another.>

    http://www.census.gov/govs/www/statetaxtechdoc2008.html

    using per capita in a state like CA is especially misleading with the number of households we have with large families and low income

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/25/2009 @ 8:29pm

40. Posted by antisocialist at 09/25/2009 @ 8:29pm

    So essentially you have no actual facts to back it up whereas I provided three sources that are to the contrary. I get it. I said post data not opinons.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 8:37pm

41. All that's essentially happening here is you are trying to define what it means for a state to have the highest taxes. The per capita tax would be an average. You are basically claiming that the highest earner determine the tax burden for the entire state.

    You're claims that California has the highest income tax are even suspect. Californias income tax on the top earners are the highest in the nation but our bottom bracket is one of the lowest in the nation. If you look at the progressive chart we aren't really averaged that high it's just the top earners who are amongst the highest in the nation. You're facts aren't bother to factor in that the income tax system is progressive. You are just saying that because we have one of the highest top brackets that we must be the heaviest taxed. And the highest tax bracket earns over 1 million dollars so they aren't exactly average.

    We also don't have the highest state sales tax. We use a combined local and state sales tax. If you take it out and average it is about 7.95% which is tied with Texas and only slightly higher than Arizona.

    When you talk about the actual effective tax rate for property tax then you get a different number. In the effective tax rate California is actually near the bottom we are about 46th in the nation when it comes to property taxes if you actually take into account what is ACTUALLY being done in practice.

    http://www.ppic.org/main/publication.asp?i=424

    That is another good PDF to read if you want facts instead of ideological BS.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 8:50pm

42. Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/25/2009 @ 8:50pm

    I posted facts and links but you are ignoring them.

    Your logic is worse than suspect, it's bogus.

    Why do you arbitrarily take out the local sales tax? because it interferes with your BS on this topic.

    the tax is real

    Why do you ignore that our fuel tax is the highest in the nation and a big expense for average Californians given how many are commuters by car (and traveling the greatest ave distance to work in the nation). I pay about $1200 per year just in Fuel taxes.

    You also chose to ignore the very real FACTS I stated that our top rate (not the millionaire rate) starts at 44k for a single person which is far lower than any other high tax state.

    You also chose to ignore the very real FACT that our personal exemption is approx 1/10 of what high tax states give.

    You also chose to ignore the FACT that per capita provides a very distorted picture in CA because we have the most people on welfare in the US. Per capita takes the number of people in the family and establishes an average. So if you have 2 million families below the poverty line with 4-6 children, the per capita is dramatically lowered. Which is why the Census Bureau urges caution in using the numbers.

    You use these numbers because you join with the liberal Democrats who have bankrupted CA and want to further destroy it by taxing people even more.

    You, snowball, and others who empower these marxist democrats in the state legislature are destroying any chance that CA will ever recover from the hole that it's in.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/26/2009 @ 07:59am

43. >>>Berkely was the worst with the protestors calling for free college education.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/25/2009 @ 1:27pm<<<

    When I was a student at Berkeley, it was practically free.

    There needs to be viable alternatives where those of us who were not born into rich families can get a first class education without mortgaging our future with six figure debt.

    If they can do it in Sweden, why not in the "best" country in the world?

    Posted by Metteyya at 09/26/2009 @ 09:53am

44. I posted facts and links but you are ignoring them.

    Your logic is worse than suspect, it's bogus.

    "Why do you arbitrarily take out the local sales tax? because it interferes with your BS on this topic.

    the tax is real"

    Because we are talking about state taxes and we only have the highest sales tax in certain portions of the state because of the local taxes added on so this is deceptive.

    "Why do you ignore that our fuel tax is the highest in the nation and a big expense for average Californians given how many are commuters by car (and traveling the greatest ave distance to work in the nation). I pay about $1200 per year just in Fuel taxes."

    You obviously didn't read the PDF I posted which addresses that.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/26/2009 @ 12:28pm

45. "You also chose to ignore the very real FACTS I stated that our top rate (not the millionaire rate) starts at 44k for a single person which is far lower than any other high tax state. "

    Also a lie the top rate is 10% and start above 1,000,000

    http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_statetaxrate_CA.html

    "You also chose to ignore the very real FACT that our personal exemption is approx 1/10 of what high tax states give."

    Doesn't make a difference when I post the averages of the real taxes paid per year by resident because that is taking into account what ever personal exemptions they got.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/26/2009 @ 12:30pm

46. "You also chose to ignore the FACT that per capita provides a very distorted picture in CA because we have the most people on welfare in the US. Per capita takes the number of people in the family and establishes an average. So if you have 2 million families below the poverty line with 4-6 children, the per capita is dramatically lowered. Which is why the Census Bureau urges caution in using the numbers."

    At the same time it is the only way to average it. You're method is the most innaccurate because it relies on little more than opinion. You are basically saying because we have a high top bracket and a high sales tax in certain areas therefore it is my opinion that we are the highest taxed. I would trust the census before I would trust your opinion. Also you should read the last PDF I posted which you obviously haven't which addresses both of these falacies.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/26/2009 @ 12:32pm

47. "You use these numbers because you join with the liberal Democrats who have bankrupted CA and want to further destroy it by taxing people even more.

    You, snowball, and others who empower these marxist democrats in the state legislature are destroying any chance that CA will ever recover from the hole that it's in."

    Also wrong. You end your argument with a personal attack which makes everything you have said before worthless. This discussion is about the real facts about whether California is the highest taxed state. Why don't you stick to that instead of lobbing childish insults?

    Face it Larry you have bought into a lie. Read the PDF I sent you and you will see why we don't actually have the highest sales tax, fuel tax, or income tax in the nation. You only take into account the highest bracket you can possibly pay you aren't taking into account the other 90% of the state. Accept the facts and just walk away. You have been selective about the facts that you post. You only post the highest bracket instead of taking the true average of what people pay which shows your method to be the most inaccurate. Why don't you show something that is the average of Californians rather than the highest end? This is ridiculous Larry. Read the PDFs I sent and maybe you will actually see the truth.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/26/2009 @ 12:37pm

48. Oh and the difference between the links you posted and the one I did is that you are talking about piece meal parts of the tax system. You are showing we have the highest fuel tax and the highest top income tax and the highest sales tax (in certain areas) and saying therefore we must have the highest taxes in the nation. What I am posting is showing that not only do we not have the highest income tax or sales tax in many situations but that the average paid is not the highest in the nation which is the only fair method of figuring things out not the method by which you are doing it which is only picking the highest possible brackets paid and attributing that to the whole state which is also what most of your sources have shown.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/26/2009 @ 12:40pm

49. Oh course this once again proves my point that you will never admit that you were wrong about something even when the weight of the facts bear down upon you because you can never admit that you or the right is wrong about a topic. Why don't you post something that actually shows that the AVERAGE of real taxes paid by tax payers in California is higher than the AVERAGE paid elsewhere. And I mean the REAL taxes paid. Not the potential.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/26/2009 @ 12:43pm

50. By the way insulting me just stands to show more that you are not standing on the firm ground of facts and instead rely on insults instead.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/26/2009 @ 1:01pm

51. Santi-What happened to your property values in California. I am, sure it was liberal realtors who in cahoots with liberal builders helped to create a bubble of low income buyers in real estate. Droopy was wishing he could be there but he was in a no state income tax state(Florida) at the time. My Aunt has lived in California for 60+ years,in the early 70's she told me that almost all of the restaurant workers in the valley were illegal. Since that is the case there has been tacit approval of all involved with using illegals in the California work force. Why then should I listen to people complaining about this and affiliated government programs. In the final analysis this led top California's bankrupt status. Again the people benefitting from this situation have profited and are pillars in the community. Let's lament"Marxist" professors and their adverse effect on the community. Santi I paid my way through college due to a good paying summer job(steel)and the time period(late 70s-early 80's).Today the chances of this are extremely small .The universities that "you" approve of are much more expensive I am sure than the California state system. Why rail against people developing their intellectual capacities. This seems to go against every thing that you post. If you were an uneducated guy nit would show in your writings. Why be agaionst others trying to emulate you in one or another shape or form?

    Posted by whatozz at 09/26/2009 @ 1:12pm

52. Because we are talking about state taxes and we only have the highest sales tax in certain portions of the state because of the local taxes added on so this is deceptive.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/26/2009 @ 12:28pm

    Where is 90% of the state population? They are in the counties where these rates apply.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/26/2009 @ 1:25pm

53. Face it Larry you have bought into a lie. Read the PDF I sent you and you will see why we don't actually have the highest sales tax, fuel tax, or income tax in the nation. You only take into account the highest bracket you can possibly pay you aren't taking into account the other 90% of the state. Accept the facts and just walk away. You have been selective about the facts that you post. You only post the highest bracket instead of taking the true average of what people pay which shows your method to be the most inaccurate. Why don't you show something that is the average of Californians rather than the highest end? This is ridiculous Larry. Read the PDFs I sent and maybe you will actually see the truth.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/26/2009 @ 12:37pm

    The nonsense is your attempt to use misleading statistics.

    As I noted, we have the most people on welfare in the US. That skews the use of averages to where they are unreliable. The fact that the Census Bureau even warns not to use those statistics doesn't dispel you from just doing it anyway.

    I'm not merely showing the highest end.

    You continue to ignore that the highest marginal rate for single persons begins at 44k which means it affects more of the population than just the high end as you assert.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/26/2009 @ 1:36pm

54. Also you should read the last PDF I posted which you obviously haven't which addresses both of these falacies.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/26/2009 @ 12:32pm

    the PDF is from a leftist Non Profit. Why would any reasonable person accept their lies and distortions?

    For instance they lament the supposed low business tax rates and their decline.

    But that stands in contrast to the facts rated by others. And the decline is due to companies relocating BECAUSE of our high taxes and fees on business. I know because I've run businesses in this state.

    <Only two states have worse business tax climates than the Golden State, according to a study released Tuesday by The Tax Foundation.

    The 2010 State Business Tax Climate Index pegs California at No. 48 for its climate, the same as in 2009. The state comes in ahead of only New York and New Jersey.

    The Index measures the competitiveness of each states tax systems and ranks them based on corporate income, individual income, sales, property and unemployment insurance taxes.>

    http://tinyurl.com/m965to

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/26/2009 @ 1:43pm

55. I believe in the value of truly public higher education and I believe that public higher education in California is increasingly out of reach for the middle class.

    In a family of four making $70k a year, the first kid to go to college is not going to get any grant aid or subsidized loans. If the family can afford to contribute the expected contribution (about $7-8k), the student still needs to come up with at least $10k a year for the remainder of tuition, room, board, books, etc. It'll probably be in loans if we're talking about a Cal, I'm a TA there and I know how much homework those kids get. A part-time job isn't really an option, especially considering all the internships, volunteer or research a student needs to do these days to have a chance at a job after graduation.

    Now let's imagine that the family can't contribute anything. That's not unreasonable - $70,000 for a family of four in California is not a ton. In this scenario, the student has to take out about $80,000 over the course of a four year education. With fewer classes offered each semester because of budget cuts, maybe it takes more that four years to graduate. Either way, the student has an unmanageable amount of debt coming out of college.

    A kid who graduates in the top ten percent of his high school and manages to get into UC Berkeley or UCLA should not end up with $80k of debt. The point is to give students like this a "world-class education" at prices that make it seem like an attainable goal. Calling Cal a "good deal" despite fee increases is an affront to everything that public education is supposed to be.

    Let's not call some hard-working middle class kid a brat. He just wants what he's been promised: to achieve his dreams through public education.

    Posted by JMSmith at 09/26/2009 @ 2:17pm

56. "Let's not call some hard-working middle class kid a brat. He just wants what he's been promised: to achieve his dreams through public education."

    JMSmith, stop using sexist language, especially since over 50% of university students are women.

    So don't call some hard-working middle class kid a brat. SHE just wants what she has been promised: to achieve HER dreams through public education.

    These cuts will have a huge impact on women students.

    Posted by ktrig at 09/26/2009 @ 5:56pm

57. The nonsense is your attempt to use misleading statistics.

    As I noted, we have the most people on welfare in the US. That skews the use of averages to where they are unreliable. The fact that the Census Bureau even warns not to use those statistics doesn't dispel you from just doing it anyway.

    I'm not merely showing the highest end.

    You continue to ignore that the highest marginal rate for single persons begins at 44k which means it affects more of the population than just the high end as you assert.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/26/2009 @ 1:36pm

    I didn't only post the census facts which you seems to have conspicuosly ignored. I posted a lot of links with different numbers in them. I guess you haven't read those. And the highest end which is 10% starts at 1 million and above.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/26/2009 @ 7:47pm

58. the PDF is from a leftist Non Profit. Why would any reasonable person accept their lies and distortions?

    For instance they lament the supposed low business tax rates and their decline.

    But that stands in contrast to the facts rated by others. And the decline is due to companies relocating BECAUSE of our high taxes and fees on business. I know because I've run businesses in this state.

    <Only two states have worse business tax climates than the Golden State, according to a study released Tuesday by The Tax Foundation.

    The 2010 State Business Tax Climate Index pegs California at No. 48 for its climate, the same as in 2009. The state comes in ahead of only New York and New Jersey.

    The Index measures the competitiveness of each states tax systems and ranks them based on corporate income, individual income, sales, property and unemployment insurance taxes.>

    http://tinyurl.com/m965to

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/26/2009 @ 1:43pm

    Why should I accept any of the lies and distortions of your right wing sources? This is a ridiculous argument to make in order to avoid dealing with facts.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/26/2009 @ 7:48pm

59. I can see you aren't going to be logical on this one anti. Anything that doesn't agree with you is full of leftist lies. I guess that will be the tone of this. No matter how many sources I present to the contrary you will find something to disagree with and therefore say that applies to the totality of the facts. It doesn't matter the source you should be able to dispute the contents of what they are saying which you have shown yourself unable to do.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/26/2009 @ 7:50pm

60. I can see you aren't going to be logical on this one anti. Anything that doesn't agree with you is full of leftist lies. I guess that will be the tone of this. No matter how many sources I present to the contrary you will find something to disagree with and therefore say that applies to the totality of the facts. It doesn't matter the source you should be able to dispute the contents of what they are saying which you have shown yourself unable to do.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/26/2009 @ 7:50pm

    I haved rebutted your leftist resource utterly and completely with other sources. I have rebutted your use of the Census Bureau, not just with another resource, but with the warning from the CB itself on the reliability of their statistics.

    It is you CCC that is ignoring the facts. Those facts have caused CA to see a net decline in population and the exodus of business from the state.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/27/2009 @ 10:22am

61. When I was a student at Berkeley, it was practically free.

    There needs to be viable alternatives where those of us who were not born into rich families can get a first class education without mortgaging our future with six figure debt.

    If they can do it in Sweden, why not in the "best" country in the world?

    Posted by Metteyya at 09/26/2009 @ 09:53am

    It was not free....somebody else paid for it...

    The viable alternative is to be the son or daughter of an illegal...you get instate tution and I am sure there are many grants available to minoritys of what ever flavor that are not available...to my daughter...

    How about we eliminate some of the classes and majors that produce thousands of people who, at graduation, are not qualified to do anything, aqbsolutely of no value in the working world, no demand, in the real world, but teach at university levels? Cloning more useful idiots ready for govt or acedemia?How about we eliminate tenure and re evaluate the REAL value of some of the salaries earned by profs who have TA teach while they work on a book that no one will read?

    CEO salaries? Add up the usless tenured salaries and see how much waste we are paying for...

    Sweden has a total 6 people living there...economy of scale not at work here?...no diversity?? No job growth eilther...Not to worry, tho, they are not meeting population growth internaly, and revenues are not growing nor are job creation, nor wealth creation so in a few years, schools many have more empty seats...

    Posted by YourJomamma at 09/27/2009 @ 1:10pm

62. I guess forbes is leftist.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/27/2009 @ 1:41pm

63. Hey your jomamma did you think for a long time when you posted? What discipline did you get a degree in. How many relationships did you make as an undergraduate. Did you not like your professors so they were worthless. What happened so you did not allow your mind to expand and think thoughts that were new to you. Why are the Swedes bad people? They pay high taxes which pay the college expenses of all who want to attend. Is their unemployment 10%? Are they happy with their government and health care?

    Posted by whatozz at 09/27/2009 @ 8:42pm

64. From the article, I quote: "'At UC Irvine, Anthropology Professor Victoria Bernal said "We are taking something that by all measures is a great success and tearing it down. . . . Public education is a fundamental cornerstone of democracy in America.'"

    Goedel asks when the edifice of democracy has already been destroyed by our corrupted means of financing election campaigns, of what use is the "cornerstone", Prof. Bernal?

    Posted by goedel at 09/27/2009 @ 8:52pm

65. So because the crooks are in charge does that mean we should throw up our hands.We should make sure the next generation is educated and aware. A bigger scandal is the cost of higher education. I hope you want the cornerstone to continue to stand.

    Posted by whatozz at 09/27/2009 @ 9:34pm

66. It is you CCC that is ignoring the facts. Those facts have caused CA to see a net decline in population and the exodus of business from the state.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/27/2009 @ 10:22am

    Say what you will Larry but you have shown nothing that has proven your point you have mearly shown peacemeal information that is based on the highest end possible not what is really being paid.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/28/2009 @ 4:21pm

67. You can tell your attitudes about facts larry by what you call them. Anyone who writes off something as leftist or rightwing lies isn't interested in facts. They are interested in ideology. They will only accept the facts that agree with them even if those facts are not whole or are suspect at best.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/28/2009 @ 4:24pm

68. Anyone who writes off something as leftist or rightwing lies isn't interested in facts.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/28/2009 @ 4:24pm

    But what do you do if somebody does lie? Can you write off something as a lie if it really is a lie?

    Posted by Mistral at 09/29/2009 @ 11:36am

69. But what do you do if somebody does lie? Can you write off something as a lie if it really is a lie?

    Posted by Mistral at 09/29/2009 @ 11:36am \

    Yes if you can actually prove it's a lie.

    Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/29/2009 @ 12:02pm