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Congress passed the Alien and Sedition Acts in 1798. These four acts of Congress were meant to protect the new nation from French immigrants. They reflected a broad paranoia that French newcomers would poison American minds and weaken the new American government.
By 1802 President Thomas Jefferson led the repeal of most of these acts because they overstepped federal authority and instituted unjust restrictions.
In 1845 the Know Nothing movement in the United States formed a national political party based in nativist sentiment. This "Native American Party" rested on populist fears of Irish immigration. The Irish, they argued, were streaming into the United States. The Know Nothings argued that these Irish were unwelcome labor competition, and that these new immigrants were bringing with them foreign values, specifically Catholicism, which were a threat to American values.
By 1860 this party was extinguished.
In 1882 President Arthur signed into federal law the Chinese Exclusion Act. Chinese immigrant labor was the infrastructure backbone of the 19th century California Gold Rush, but by the 1880s a significant economic downturn increased competition and turned up animosity. Fueled by scarcity-stoked fear, nativists pushed an anti-immigration agenda, culminating in the 1882 Act that excluded Chinese workers from entering the United States.
In 1943 this act was repealed.
In the 1880s Reconstruction ended in the U.S. South. States of the former Confederacy began to enact legislation that stripped black citizens of the right to vote, ejected black office holders from their posts, and forcibly segregated public accommodations and public transportation. Architects of these Jim Crow Laws justified the exclusion of black Americans from the public sphere as a protection of the values and culture of Southern life.
In 1964 the Civil Rights Act ended segregation in public accommodations.
In 1890 the state of Wisconsin passed the Bennett Law and the state of Illinois passed the Edwards law. Both restricted the use of German-language instruction in the state's classrooms. These were antagonist legislative acts meant to cripple the extensive German parochial school system in these states. Many believed German immigrants to be a threat to American values and political interests.
In 1892 both laws were repealed.
In 1942 the United States began the forcible internment of more than 100,000 Japanese nationals, more than half of whom were American citizens. The "War Relocation Camps" were justified as a protective measure for American interests in the wake of Peal Harbor.
In 1945 the internment camps were closed and in 1948 reparations were made to many of the survivors.
In 2008 the United States of America elected its first black president. He is the son of a white woman from Kansas and a black man from Kenya. He was born in an American state with a sizeable Japanese-American population. He went to grade school in Indonesia. He chose a Catholic man as his running mate. In the general election he won Virgina, a state that was once the capital of the Confederacy.
In 2009 he worked with Congress to craft legislation aimed at providing affordable health insurance coverage to all. While addressing a joint session of Congress he was called a liar by a Representative from South Carolina. Those who opposed his policies decried him as a socialist, a Nazi, a bigot and a murderer. They suggested that his ideas were dangerous and threatened the values of the United States.
We have been told we cannot do this by a chorus of cynics who will only grow louder and more dissonant in the weeks to come. We've been asked to pause for a reality check. We've been warned against offering the people of this nation false hope.But in the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope. For when we have faced down impossible odds; when we've been told that we're not ready, or that we shouldn't try, or that we can't, generations of Americans have responded with a simple creed that sums up the spirit of a people.
Yes we can.
It was a creed written into the founding documents that declared the destiny of a nation.
Yes we can.
It was whispered by slaves and abolitionists as they blazed a trail toward freedom through the darkest of nights.
Yes we can.
It was sung by immigrants as they struck out from distant shores and pioneers who pushed westward against an unforgiving wilderness.
Yes we can.
It was the call of workers who organized; women who reached for the ballot; a President who chose the moon as our new frontier; and a King who took us to the mountaintop and pointed the way to the Promised Land.
Yes we can to justice and equality. Yes we can to opportunity and prosperity. Yes we can heal this nation. Yes we can repair this world. Yes we can.
Can we?
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MHL: "Congress passed the Alien and Sedition Acts in 1798. These four acts of Congress were meant to protect the new nation from French immigrants. They reflected a broad paranoia that French newcomers would poison American minds and weaken the new American government."
--the Alien Act, but not the Sedition Act (which was an attempt by the Federalists to keep the Anti-federalists from publicly criticizing them).
Posted by urmygyro at 09/16/2009 @ 3:51pm
MHL: "In 2009 he worked with Congress to craft legislation that aimed at providing affordable health insurance coverage to all."
--you're kidding, right? You forgot this part of Obama's speech: "I have no plans on putting the insurance companies out of business."
--and since when does calling someone a "liar" make the person saying that a "racist"?
Posted by urmygyro at 09/16/2009 @ 3:55pm
'--you're kidding, right? You forgot this part of Obama's speech: "I have no plans on putting the insurance companies out of business."'
I'm not sure what you're implying, "urmygyro."
Private insurance companies are perfectly capable of coexisting with strong public options - provided they restrain their appetites for profit just a little. Private insurance companies have coexisted with public health care in Germany since the 1880s.
By the way, that's not a typo - I mean the ninth decade of the Nineteenth Century. That's how long ago the Germans got a health care system comparable to the one that we're debating in Congress right now.
Posted by JakobFabian at 09/16/2009 @ 4:01pm
JakobFabian: "Private insurance companies are perfectly capable of coexisting with strong public options - provided they restrain their appetites for profit just a little."
--you're relying on insurance companies to "restrain their appetites for profit?"...even "just a little?"...hahaha! por favor.
JakobFabian: "Private insurance companies have coexisted with public health care in Germany since the 1880s. By the way, that's not a typo - I mean the ninth decade of the Nineteenth Century. That's how long ago the Germans got a health care system comparable to the one that we're debating in Congress right now."
--and that's how long it'll be 'til America sees real "change" at this rate.
Posted by urmygyro at 09/16/2009 @ 4:04pm
MH-L is the last `author' of TN to hav ANY credibility on anything related to American Racism....her conclusion was in-born the minute her umbilical cord was cut, likely by a white OB!
Posted by Happy at 09/16/2009 @ 4:21pm
urmygyro -
Yeah, check into Rep. Joe Wilson's background and prior actions. Look at where he's from and what he's advocated. One "you lie" may not sound racist in and of itself, but taken in the context of Wilson's record and the tone of the very personal vitriol spewing forth from the lunatic fringe - which mainstream Republicans are totally encouraging, yes, his "you lie" is absolutely of a piece and totally racist.
Posted by mheister at 09/16/2009 @ 4:31pm
Private insurance companies are perfectly capable of coexisting with strong public options - provided they restrain their appetites for profit just a little. Private insurance companies have coexisted with public health care in Germany since the 1880s.
By the way, that's not a typo - I mean the ninth decade of the Nineteenth Century. That's how long ago the Germans got a health care system comparable to the one that we're debating in Congress right now.
Posted by JakobFabian at 09/16/2009 @ 4:01pm
<provided they restrain their appetites for profit just a little>
So, if they reduce their profits from 2.2% to 1.1% you will allow private enterprise to continue?
Posted by antisocialist at 09/16/2009 @ 4:57pm
Ms Harris-Lacewell continues in the tradition of Jesse Jackson in finding racism in everything and everyone--except herself.
Posted by antisocialist at 09/16/2009 @ 4:59pm
Yes we can repair this world. Yes we can.
Can we?
--------------------------
we can't fix all the problems, but we can do a lot better.
Posted by ibbleblibble at 09/16/2009 @ 4:59pm
Racist and Christian is an oxymoron. Any Christian who is, or espouses, racism is an affront to Jesus Christ and a hypocrite. "He who so much raises his voice in anger against another, does so against Me." How can a Christian, or any believer in God, hate someone God loves? I would say they do not fear the wrath of God and will most certainly pay His price. Did we choose our skin color? No, it was Gods' choice. It boggles my mind that anyone who believes in God and/or Jesus Christ could ever hate. Hate is the ammunition of Satan.
Posted by therealtruth at 09/16/2009 @ 5:05pm
Most of the French weren't newcomers or immigrants...at least not from France. They were already here having settled in North America the same time the British did. Americans with British ancestry were afraid Americans with French ancestry would sympathize with France. Before it had been taken over by the British half of North America was French colonies.
Posted by GrrrlRomeo at 09/16/2009 @ 5:13pm
Posted by therealtruth at 09/16/2009 @ 5:05pm
amen!
Posted by antisocialist at 09/16/2009 @ 5:17pm
Rather than "History", a damning Inconvenient Truth:
September 16, 2009
An Allergic Reaction To The Race Card
By William Jacobson
The increasingly hysterical use of the race card...reflects the last gasps of people who, being unable to win an argument on the merits, seek to end the argument.
While the false accusation of racism is not a new tactic, it has been refined by Obama supporters...
During the campaign, Obama supporters successfully ended scrutiny of Obama's overstated opposition to the Iraq war by accusing Bill Clinton of racism for calling Obama's narrative a "fairy tale." False accusations of racism also were used against Hillary supporter Geraldine Ferraro and against John McCain in order to frame the political debate.
In the 2008 campaign cycle, the race card worked well because it could. The legitimate enthusiasm for an historic black presidential candidacy combined with media bias created an acceptance that there was no way to fight back against the tactic...
...people....increasingly oppose his policies and plans. Democrats know that the debate on...health care and cap-and-trade has been won on the merits by the opposition.
Not surprisingly, the pace of racial accusations has picked up.....But it will not work this time...
Everyone understands that Obama was not subject to the same scrutiny as other candidates because of the fear of being called a racist. That lack of scrutiny gave us a president whose moderate campaign rhetoric belied an underlying agenda which, if revealed during the campaign, would have resulted in an electoral landslide for McCain-Palin. The vocal opposition we are witnessing has everything to do with a sense of being betrayed not just by a candidate, but by a process which was rigged by the use of the race card....
Posted by Happy at 09/16/2009 @ 5:19pm
The intermediate "History" of Affirmative Action, is being made before our eyes....as We, The People, chose to put someone in the top slot, a pretender to the throne!
What a sad spectacle!
Posted by Happy at 09/16/2009 @ 5:24pm
So that's where that yes we can chant came from. Interesting.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/16/2009 @ 5:25pm
Lacewell: Yes we can to justice and equality. Yes we can to opportunity and prosperity. Yes we can heal this nation. Yes we can repair this world. Yes we can.
Can we?
Not as long as the cries of racism continue every time somone questions policy. No, no.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/16/2009 @ 5:27pm
Electoral landslide for McCain and Palin? In your dreams Happy, please, please ,please let Palin run in 2012.
Posted by Denise29 at 09/16/2009 @ 5:33pm
While democrats, especially those in the Black Caucus were busy calling Joe Wilson a racist, they forgot to mention that he is a retired Colonel and that he has four sons, all of which served in the military, three of which were in Iraq at the same time. Why slander a family with that degree of patriotism. Why, because it's politically expedient to do so. to me, it was repugnant. And the President did lie in his partisan speech, several times. Either that or he simply doesn't know what is in the HC plan he was advocating.
Now, can someone with Joe Wilson's history be a racist? Maybe. That's a tough term to throw around, especially when there is a President with black blood in him serving. People who make the charge had better be prepared to back it up.
I for one, believe that there exists a little prejudice in everyone to some degree whether it be white against black, catholic against protestant, asian against latino, whatever. But to try to demonize an entire political party by using the term racist simply because the President does have black blood in him is a disgrace. It's beyond the pale. Martin Luther King would have frowned on the tactic. Democrats should be ashamed.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/16/2009 @ 5:38pm
Posted by Denise29 at 09/16/2009 @ 5:33pm
Joe Wilson might be a good candidate.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/16/2009 @ 5:39pm
The new racist code words from the Nation, Maureen Down, etc.
Statement: You lie! Code for: "You lie, boy!" or "You lie, darkey!"
Statement: I don't want to pay more taxes. Code for: I hate black people.
Statement: I don't think I want Obama to be President. Code for: Blacks don't deserve what white people have.
Statement: How can we pay for this healthcare bill? Code for: The Ku Klux Klan was good.
Statement: America is a good place. Code for: I hate black people.
Statement: George Bush is satan and a killer. Code for: I just want the best for this country.
These are just a few samples. There are literally millions more, they are being added daily.
Posted by suntzujr at 09/16/2009 @ 5:41pm
"I assume alot."
Posted by suntzujr at 09/16/2009 @ 5:41pm
Posted by Benchrest at 09/16/2009 @ 5:52pm
Racist and Christian is an oxymoron. Any Christian who is, or espouses, racism is an affront to Jesus Christ and a hypocrite. "He who so much raises his voice in anger against another, does so against Me." How can a Christian, or any believer in God, hate someone God loves? I would say they do not fear the wrath of God and will most certainly pay His price. Did we choose our skin color? No, it was Gods' choice. It boggles my mind that anyone who believes in God and/or Jesus Christ could ever hate. Hate is the ammunition of Satan.
Posted by therealtruth at 09/16/2009 @ 5:05pm |
Hey, I'm right there right you man. I'm not currently Christian but I have studied Christianity for a long time(I have a fascination with religion) and I see hatred from some of it's members towards different groups of people, racism or homophobia, and I just don't get how someone who believes in the message they believe in can justify such hatred.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/16/2009 @ 6:26pm
Lacewell: Yes we can repair this world. Yes we can.
Can we?
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/16/2009 @ 5:27pm
Yes we can!!!
So long as Pork money is to be wasted.....but hey, two Dem Senators are now solidly in Magic's debt!
Sit back & enjoy reading how Homeland Security is burning $15 million....to serve three VIP travelers a day:
"Two Montana Democratic senators, for instance, said they personally appealed to Napolitano to get money for lower-priority border projects. That includes the $15 million plan for Whitetail, which will build a checkpoint the size and cost of a Hollywood mansion at a crossing that serves three travelers a day."
Posted by Happy at 09/16/2009 @ 6:28pm
Posted by therealtruth at 09/16/2009 @ 5:05pm
amen!
Posted by antisocialist at 09/16/2009 @ 5:17pm | ignore this person | warn this person
And another big Amen! But...., you can be sure that won't stop the racebaiting fools from pursuing their agenda of distraction from truth, attention to subject, or their application of misdirection from fact using baseless hysterical accussations!
Posted by BigPasture at 09/16/2009 @ 6:29pm
"While democrats, especially those in the Black Caucus were busy calling Joe Wilson a racist, they forgot to mention that he is a retired Colonel and that he has four sons, all of which served in the military, three of which were in Iraq at the same time. Why slander a family with that degree of patriotism. Why, because it's politically expedient to do so. to me, it was repugnant. And the President did lie in his partisan speech, several times. Either that or he simply doesn't know what is in the HC plan he was advocating. "
Maybe the people who are slandering him truly believe what they are saying? I'm not saying he is racist, I don't believe he is, but just because you are patriotic that does not work as a shield against abhorrant behavior. Bush slandered McCain's family in order to win the primary against him. I don't think that fighting in a war gives you a get out of jail free card.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/16/2009 @ 6:31pm
Electoral landslide for McCain and Palin? In your dreams Happy, please, please ,please let Palin run in 2012.
Posted by Denise29 at 09/16/2009 @ 5:33pm
I actually am quite fond of Magic as the POTUS.....The Obama Show is a blockbuster.....and it's free, low-stress....actually, it's quite stress-relieving to see the Annointed One be himself! I am a whole lot less cynical of him today than when he was campaigning as McCain's (dark) shadow!
Posted by Happy at 09/16/2009 @ 6:32pm
The increasingly hysterical use of the race card...reflects the last gasps of people who, being unable to win an argument on the merits, seek to end the argument.
Posted by Happy at 09/16/2009 @ 5:19pm | ignore this person | warn this person
Truth does not seem to slow down these "haters" in their blind selfassurance that RACE is the primal cause of their needy biased victimization which seems to really be a psychological hysteria disorder!
Posted by BigPasture at 09/16/2009 @ 6:34pm
Only white folks can put an end to the racism zombie.
Every time we use the phrase "race card", we help keep racism alive.
Every time we use the phrase "oversensitive", we help keep racism alive.
Every time we use the phrase "reverse racism". we help keep racism alive.
These phrases, and numerous others, are used for the specific purpose of purpose of preventing black folks from talking about racism to white folks. This in turn serves the purpose embodied in the chidlike enabler maxim: "if nobody talks about it, it doesn't exist".
Posted by sherifffruitfly at 09/16/2009 @ 6:34pm
Yea remember when Bush said McCain's black daughter was from an affair or something like that, I do remember it was really a low blow to McCain, at the time I really liked McCain and wouldn't have minded if he won over Bush, then McCain changed.
Posted by Denise29 at 09/16/2009 @ 6:38pm
Now that all these folks have played their Racism card:
Eugene Robinson, Maureen Dowd, Jimmy Carter, Rep. Hank Johnson, Chris Matthews....
One has to assume that they have forever and ever become conjoined to Magic and never shall they object to anything he do or doesn't do....lest of course, they become, hehehehe, RACISTS!
The IQs of some people have been bent downward....long-term side effects of Kool-Aid.....be warned, youngsters!
Posted by Happy at 09/16/2009 @ 6:38pm
Hey Happy you forgot a few, Insanity, Limburger, Ann the man and last but not least, O'Realy.
Posted by Denise29 at 09/16/2009 @ 6:44pm
These phrases, and numerous others, are used for the specific purpose of purpose of preventing black folks from talking about racism to white folks. This in turn serves the purpose embodied in the chidlike enabler maxim: "if nobody talks about it, it doesn't exist". Posted by sherifffruitfly at 09/16/2009 @ 6:34pm
Then "these phrases" are completely ineffectual. Evidence: A man shouts "you lie" at a president. It is assumed he is a racist. The bar for being accused of racism is so low as to be non-existent. The label of "racist" is the neutron bomb of political discourse. The buildings are still standing, but the accused is immolated.
I suggest you read "White Guilt" by Shelby Steele. If you dare.
Posted by twillie at 09/16/2009 @ 7:02pm
Just saw you on Keith Overbite (countdown to no ratings) and I think you are detestable in your reading of opposition to Obama.
Where is your brilliant analysis of BLACK RACISM????
hypocrite
Posted by libzRfreaks2 at 09/16/2009 @ 7:36pm
memo to the left....
The Obama administration does NOT want race discussed.
Didn't you hear his press secretary today?
His poll numbers tank each time race is an issue.
If you do not want government to take over healthcare you might still like Black people.
Joe Wilson is from South Carolina. African-Americans are leaving the Northeast and the West Coast to move to the Southeast by the tens of thousands.
If lynch mobs still exist in Atlanta why would a Black person leave Boston and move there?
It's a baseless accusation that says, "I'm to lazy to find the real reason these people disagree with Obama's policies so I'll just call them racists."
Melissa Harris-Lacewell should stick to counting the money her family has stolen from the middle class.
Posted by bleedingheart at 09/16/2009 @ 7:50pm
After reading these comments it's obvious we are unable to conduct a reasonable, constructive and civil dialog. We've regressed to "food fight" behavior and childish one up man ship. Sad.
Posted by bsockey at 09/16/2009 @ 8:07pm
So, if they reduce their profits from 2.2% to 1.1% you will allow private enterprise to continue? Posted by antisocialist at 09/16/2009 @ 4:57pm |
Aetna took in $8B in premiums last quarter and spent $6B on benefits...you're telling me they can't manage to squeeze more than 2.125% out of that remaining $2B?
Why should we be penalized for the ad budgets and other admin overhead of private health insurance companies?
$2B / 15M == $133...that's more than twice as much as Medicare spends on admin per patient for a whole year in a single quarter.
Maybe they should spend less time canceling policies and a little more money on actual healthcare.
Posted by snowball777 at 09/16/2009 @ 8:13pm
One question even a Lib should be able to answer.... Are the WHITE blue dog democrats that oppose Obamacare Racists???
Cause as Jimmy and many here have said...Opposing your marxist messiah is an act of Racism right??
You got some splainin to do freaks
Posted by libzRfreaks2 at 09/16/2009 @ 9:06pm
Just wondering if these patriotic truth yellers didn't ever find an opportunity to yell at hsuB when it came out that most of the justifications for the Iraq war were bogus.
Well ok, hsuB did honestly feel threatened that Sodum Insane threatened his poppy. That part was true.
But no yelling at hsuB for wasting billions/trillions and 10's of thousands of wounded and killed US troops on made up BS.
Not a peep.
Oh, I know what the dif was/is-- it must be because Obama is smart!
And this above all else is worrying, because whenever dumbass new con repubs feel threatened, it's a pretty good sign that war is just around the corner, no matter what other BS they make up.
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/16/2009 @ 9:06pm
Don't get offended, Dems/Libs......but I mean this as a compliment (of sorts) when I read the cut-n-paste below....Obama could've been the black Bernie Madoff, he's THAT good in keeping the Dems/Libs faithful; despite almost 2 years' of press accounts on the Empty Suit that he is!!!
September 16th, 2009
Who's The 'Reality Based Community' Now?
Posted by Tom Bevan
Remember when the liberal blogosphere proudly trumpeted themselves and their policies as being the "reality-based community?" Well, not so much anymore.
Take this Gallup poll today on Obama and the Democrats' health care plans.
Question: As you may know, President Obama is proposing a health care plan that is designed to expand coverage to nearly all Americans without raising taxes on the middle class or lowering the quality of health care. If Obama's plan is passed, do you think it would or would not be able to accomplish all of these goals?
Ninety percent of Republicans and 64% of Independents don't think Obama's plan will do any of these things. But two out of three Democrats (66%) believe Obama's plan will accomplish all three goals.
As I wrote the other day, President Obama is making claims about his health care plan that even his most passionate defenders don't believe. Senator Baucus made those exact same claims today in the Wall Street Journal unveiling his bill. But a sizeable majority of the public seems to recognize that too good to be true notion that coverage can be expanded dramatically without raising taxes or suffering a decrease in quality is, well, not a claim that's based in reality.
Posted by Happy at 09/16/2009 @ 9:29pm
Would those 2/3 of Dems who "believe Obama's plan will accomplish all three goals" please forward your contact information to www.perfectsaps.com. You are worth a lot of money to any marketers out there.....
Oh, after you sign up and spill the required beans, they will put your name in the pool to win the Eiffel Tower and have dinner with your "sort of God" weekly until Jan., 2013....better than just some cheap Billy Beer!
Posted by Happy at 09/16/2009 @ 9:34pm
Maybe they should spend less time canceling policies and a little more money on actual healthcare.
Posted by snowball777 at 09/16/2009 @ 8:13pm
Actually they don't spend much time at all on recission. Recissions amount to less than 1/2 of 1 percent of health insurance policies.
Posted by antisocialist at 09/16/2009 @ 9:46pm
Hey, guess anyone who opposes Magic's fulfilling his dream of fighting the Good War will be RACISTS....tomorrow they will make themselves evident! This is actually one campaign promise he's kept entirely intact so far!
Sources: McChrystal Wants Up to 40,000 More Troops in Afghanistan
Wednesday, September 16, 2009
Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, is privately requesting between 30,000 and 40,000 more troops....sources told FOX News.
Posted by Happy at 09/16/2009 @ 9:46pm
So that's where that yes we can chant came from. Interesting.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/16/2009 @ 5:25pm
nope.
"Sí, se puede (Spanish for "Yes, it can be done"[1]) is the motto of the United Farm Workers. In 1972, during Cesar Chavez's 24 day fast in Phoenix, Arizona, he and UFW's co-founder, Dolores Huerta came up with the slogan.[1]"
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/16/2009 @ 9:47pm
especially when there is a President with black blood
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/16/2009 @ 5:38pm
uh, blood is red or purple.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/16/2009 @ 9:49pm
So really why did Wilsin feel so threatened to yell out during a joint session presidential address?
Rep. Joe ("You Lie!") Wilson: "I'm for immigration, legal immigration, I've been an immigration attorney."
Oh that's it! He has intimate knowledge of immigration law! Thus his dedication to the rule of law and passion for it took him over!
NOT.
He lied.... has never practiced immigration law.
Only real-estate.
Maybe he meant some of his best friends or relatives are immigration lawyers?
http://tinyurl.com/lewggc
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/16/2009 @ 9:51pm
he was campaigning as McCain's (dark) shadow!
Posted by Happy at 09/16/2009 @ 6:32pm
wtf?
ignore.........
sorry, happy, but it's just too much.
grow up.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/16/2009 @ 9:51pm
Only white folks can put an end to the racism zombie.
Posted by sherifffruitfly at 09/16/2009 @ 6:34pm
nonsense.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/16/2009 @ 9:53pm
grow up.
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/16/2009 @ 9:51pm
You detect that I am having too much fun, huh?
I can not tell a lie, Yes! My Hopey and Changey has that Taste Great, Less Filling shine recently....:~)
Posted by Happy at 09/16/2009 @ 10:17pm
"It's a baseless accusation that says, "I'm to lazy to find the real reason these people disagree with Obama's policies so I'll just call them racists."
an equally baseless accusation is that racism plays no part whatsoever.
and to the dumbass who claims that rescission is rare (antisocialist), perhaps you shouldn't copy/paste quotes from health care executives (cuz that's where that claim emantes). instead you should read this:
"If the top 5% is the absolute largest population for whom rescission would make sense, the probability of having your policy cancelled given that you have filed a claim is fully 10% (0.5% rescission/5.0% of the population). If you take the LA Times estimate that $300mm was saved by abrogating 20,000 policies in California ($15,000/policy), you are somewhere in the 15% zone, depending on the convexity of the top section of population. If, as I suspect, rescission is targeted toward the truly bankrupting cases – the top 1%, the folks with over $35,000 of annual claims who could never be profitable for the carrier – then the probability of having your policy torn up given a massively expensive condition is pushing 50%. One in two. You have three times better odds playing Russian Roulette"
so, the opposite is true, health insurance companies are actively engaged in the process of rescission, and i actually personally know a woman whose job it is to do so....
Posted by darladoon at 09/16/2009 @ 10:22pm
Those of us with grown kids, tonight honor the memory of Mary Travers....for one of the greatest song of all time.....:(
Mary Travers of Peter, Paul and Mary dead at 72
By JAY LINDSAY (Associated Press Writer)
September 16, 2009 10:58 PM EDT
BOSTON - Mary Travers, who as one-third of the hugely popular 1960s folk trio Peter, Paul and Mary helped popularize such tunes as "Puff (The Magic Dragon)" and "If I Had a Hammer," died in a Connecticut hospital Wednesday after battling leukemia for several years. She was 72....
Posted by Happy at 09/16/2009 @ 10:25pm
thanks melissa for this, and your other articles and blog posts. and thanks for speaking out so much!
Posted by loveloki at 09/16/2009 @ 10:37pm
The hits just keep on coming....LOL! From the only real NEWS network left! Is there any doubt why the black community loves the Dems?
New Footage Purports to Show ACORN Worker Helping 'Pimp,' 'Prostitute'
Wednesday, September 16, 2009
On the same day that the anti-poverty group ACORN announced the launch of an "internal review" after four undercover videos exposed its workers offering advice on how to skirt federal laws, a fifth video surfaced that purports to show a worker offering to help bring underage girls into the U.S. for the purposes of prostitution.
The latest video was filmed in San Diego....
Posted by Happy at 09/16/2009 @ 10:42pm
Joe Wilsin lies about why he's concerned:
http://tinyurl.com/lewggc
Teabagger leader melts down about lying:
http://tinyurl.com/qtrhrh
The Teabaggers lie about their crowd:
http://tinyurl.com/m4e4lm
Birthers get kicked out of court for made up shit:
http://tinyurl.com/qzdezm
ACORN worker punks the faux spews punkers:
http://tinyurl.com/kn95d9
And the GOP is/has nothing else but more of this shit. Do they really need to also be racists?
Oh why not.
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/16/2009 @ 10:52pm
"Sí, se puede (Spanish for "Yes, it can be done"[1]) is the motto of the United Farm Workers. Posted by frosty zoom at 09/16/2009 @ 9:47pm |
Or my Scot ancestors from Clan Colquhoun whose motto, "Si je puis" translates roughly to, "If I can".
Curiously close for such disparate geography and tongues, que no?
Posted by snowball777 at 09/17/2009 @ 12:17am
Well, There is nothing wrong with opposing a President's programs, there is nothing wrong with not wanting to pay any taxes at all . But when the opposition insults and demeans the office of the President then I say it is racially inspired. When one cannot defend someone without citing the service of his sons in the military,wow what kind of logic is that.Obiviously those who use that excuse I don't know what words to use to explain their lack of knowledge as to the fact that the speaker never in his or her life spent time in any branch of the United States military. I did and the military is full of unabashed racists.Less than 60 years ago the official policy of the US Military was racists. All members of the US military are not racisists ,not even a majority but to say because ones children serve then one can't be a racists is beyond me.Furthermore his record in South Carolina indicates he is a racists,right down to his membership in the orginazation,"the sons of confederate soliders". Or is it the "sons of the confederacy".Remember South Carolina started the Civil War because it believed Lincoln would end Slavery. Theinterruption of a President's speech with the statement "You Lie has never happened in the history of Congress.It is and was a breach of Congressional ethics committed b/c the speaker resented the President based upon race. It is really racists but shows the character of a bigoted and racists person.
Posted by RMANN06 at 09/17/2009 @ 01:55am
Anti this is off topic a little, I mean I will still be discussing racism, but this is solely between us. Urm you can have a field day on this one. And this is not to be inflammatory in any way. I know your wife is black and I assume your children are mixed judging by the fact that you have said you have only been married to one woman. Has your child ever come to you and told you that they have been called a slur by someone on the street or treated differently because of their skin color and how do you deal with that as a parent?
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/17/2009 @ 03:41am
I believe we need to deconstruct racism to understand it.
To start with I think everyone is "racist" at some level, some more than others. We are conditioned to some extent to be rascist at a very young age. It started thousands of years ago due to cultural competition. It was a survival mechanism. It was based on a primitive understanding of the belief in "race superiority" in order to protect culture and race purity.
In the modern world however, it has become a dangerous trait that needs to be let go. This takes a conscious effort. Traits that may have served a purpose many years ago need to be set aside if we are to grow.
The Human Genome Project that has mapped human DNA indicates that there is no distinct genetic basis to racial types. What this means is that the existence of "racial characteristics" is an illusion. Scientifically, rascism is based on nothing more than "skin color aroused discrmination".
Education could go a long way in eliminating rascism. But unfortunately we live in a country that want to keep the masses largely uneducated and dumbed down enough to led around by the nose.
The Corporatocracy wants to kill public education and make it difficult to attain higher education unless you are part of the Corporatocracy.
When you live in a Fascist Corporatocracy this is what you must expect.
Posted by chaoszen at 09/17/2009 @ 06:13am
The real devils in the battle against rascism are the schills for the Corporatocracy. Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Michelle Malkin, Michael Savage, Laura Ingraham to name a few.
Glenn Beck is the current rising star in this disgusting rogues gallery. They are whipping up rascist fervor on a daily basis in the hopes of creating a race war. They will stop at nothing to accomplish this. These are the enemies of what is left of our democracy and our way of life.
They are subversive terrorists and traitors and they take advantage of the fringie "illiterati" to accomplish their evil agenda.
But what can we do about them? Nothing really, other than hope that we give them enough rope to hang themselves. If we took then to the town square and separated them from their heads like the French did years ago we would just make martyr's of them.
I fear them much more than I fear Islamic Extremists.
Posted by chaoszen at 09/17/2009 @ 06:41am
Gotta love when a guy like HAPPY, especially him, who constantly and consistantly uses the racist code phrase "Magic" (never of course using the SECOND part of that phrase...since he and the ditto-heads leave that "understood")....
and who is a fan of Limbaugh who once told a black caller to his 1970s DJ show "Take that bone out of your nose and call me back!"....
discusses the "real story" of racism.
Posted by Mask at 09/17/2009 @ 07:23am
Here is another column, this time by Cal Thomas, that discusses the behavior of Melissa Harris-Lacewell and other leftists, with regard to their throwing the race card at every opportunity.
The Racism Card By Cal Thomas http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/thomas091709.php3
The leftists' propensity to engage in this behavior may be driven in part by their personal hubris, where they see themselves (leftists or "progressives") as morally better people who know right from wrong while anybody with different political ideology does not know right from wrong.
But what may be happening here also is that the extensive use of the race card is simply a political tactic.
The people on the left either hope or maybe know that if they throw the race card and call penalties any time someone dare question the policy of a Democrat who happens to be Black, then those who are opposed to that Black Democrats policies may tend to back off, be less likely to question or criticize, more willing to accept policy or allow policy to be implemented that they would otherwise oppose, etc.
In other words, the people on the left are trying to get people on the right to self-censor themselves. The goal is to ease the enactment and acceptance of leftist policy and laws.
The left is playing politics, pure and simple. They are utilizing a brazen political tactic that they know will work for them, while at the same time congragulating themselves on how morally superior they are.
This of course does nothing to improve race relations in this country, but it seems the goal of leftists is to further the advancement of leftism, not actually make the things better that they would have us believe they "care" about.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 08:27am
How is it that we killed Hillarycare back in the 1990s and that opposition wasn't "racist". But opposing Obamacare now, is?
This coordinated "cry racism" ploy stinks of desperation on the part of a party that controls overwhelming majorities in both houses, owns the executive branch, and has the sympathy of every major news outlet save Fox News and talk radio.
Is it even possible to disagree with a person of color anymore without this charge hovering on the periphery? Yet I notice that disagreeing with Michael Steel or Thomas Sowell never seems to result in a charge of "racism".
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 08:29am
How is it that we killed Hillarycare back in the 1990s and that opposition wasn't "racist". But opposing Obamacare now, is?
This coordinated "cry racism" ploy stinks of desperation on the part of a party that controls overwhelming majorities in both houses, owns the executive branch, and has the sympathy of every major news outlet save Fox News and talk radio.
Is it even possible to disagree with a person of color anymore without this charge hovering on the periphery? Yet I notice that disagreeing with Michael Steel or Thomas Sowell never seems to result in a charge of "racism".
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 08:29am
How is it that we killed Hillarycare back in the 1990s and that opposition wasn't "racist". But opposing Obamacare now, is?
This coordinated "cry racism" ploy stinks of desperation on the part of a party that controls overwhelming majorities in both houses, owns the executive branch, and has the sympathy of every major news outlet save Fox News and talk radio.
Is it even possible to disagree with a person of color anymore without this charge hovering on the periphery? Yet I notice that disagreeing with Michael Steel or Thomas Sowell never seems to result in a charge of "racism".
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 08:29am
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 08:29am
Thanks for the triple post of bullshit. Now that's not being a good "Citizen" is it?
And why is it that nearly all of the "illiterati" stooges that post here never have any constructive ideas to share?
All we get from them is a smarmy attitude and the pointing of fingers.
Totally bereft of anything constructive.
Posted by chaoszen at 09/17/2009 @ 08:43am
Posted by Happy at 09/16/2009 @ 10:25pm |
Happy, the dumbass racist
wants to secede
and live alone, his selfish life
in a dumb Happy Vall-ee
. . .
((don't worry, pee, pie, and poo have approved THIS parody))
Posted by snowball777 at 09/17/2009 @ 08:56am
And why is it that nearly all of the "illiterati" stooges that post here never have any constructive ideas to share? Posted by chaoszen at 09/17/2009 @ 08:43am |
They're trying to accurately toe the Pug line?
Posted by snowball777 at 09/17/2009 @ 08:58am
chaoszen,
Where is your actual logic or proof that what Citizen_Carrier is wrong?
That seems to be missing from your post.
That is because you can not prove Citizen_Carrier wrong, and you know it.
You know full well that the G.O.P. had alternative ideas regarding health care, and those ideas were not allowed to see the light of day in the current Democrat led Congress back when the bill was originally created this past summer. Thus you know full well that there are constructive ideas that Democrats and leftists just ignore.
You refer to B.S. It appears that the B.S. comes from your post, and was served up in a single dose.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 09:00am
snowball777,
So you are claiming Happy wants to live in State College, Pennsylvania?
That is what you claim above, in your idiotic little "poem".
Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 09:04am
Typo,
up above, when I said "what Citizen_Carrier is wrong" I meant to say "what Citizen_Carrier said is wrong".
Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 09:05am
Typo,
Up above, when I posted my correction, I should have posted the entire sentence, rather than the portion with the error.
This is because Mask is in on these blogs. And Mask will be posting in shortly to "quote" me and thus take 180 degrees out of context what I was saying.
Or I should say Mask would have posted in had I not just posted this comment....now because I have predicted Masks behavior Mask may not comment on it.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 09:09am
Posted by chaoszen at 09/17/2009 @ 06:41am
Yup, it is sad when the far right new con repubs, seeing that they can't currently or easily steal elections, are now looking to use racism as a rallying cry, but to do what exactly? To take our gov by force if necessary? More ardently scare left leaning media, organizations, elected officials, our courts?
"You lie (boy)" is a rallying cry for all 'the slow witted'- 'threatened' - 'over compensating' - 'greedy' shits itching and ready for a little push:
http://tinyurl.com/ovzju
Yeah lvlib/anti, what if that had been your wife or sons? Going to be all apologetic for the right when it's so obviously wrong? How much DU will you feed your own family to make an ideological point?
The shear lack of outrage by the right is a signal to the rest of the fascistic nut cases to go to town; enabling them into acting out their hate too.
Life in the USA just took another turn for the worse a la new con repub GOP hate book.
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 09:15am
Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 09:09am
No, just want to see you answer this question honestly...
Is there ANY opposition to Obama that is based on racism? And if so...ballpark what percentage?
Posted by Mask at 09/17/2009 @ 09:21am
Gotta love when a guy like HAPPY, especially him, who constantly and consistantly uses the racist code phrase "Magic" (never of course using the SECOND part of that phrase...since he and the ditto-heads leave that "understood")....
discusses the "real story" of racism.
Posted by Mask at 09/17/2009 @ 07:23am
Good morning MASKy.....
Bless your effort to play the Race Card when you have pretty much nothing to say.....Proving the point William Joacobson made that the Left has lost its arguments and is grasping at the straw of Racism.
As I challenged KvH....keep it up!
Hey, it's been days.....
TIME IS THE CONSERVATIVES' FRIEND!
Posted by Happy at 09/17/2009 @ 09:21am
Posted by Happy at 09/17/2009 @ 09:21am
Happ...what is the NEXT WORD that comes after "Magic"?
Posted by Mask at 09/17/2009 @ 09:29am
Mask,
You know full well and I do also that there will always be people who are racist.
Don't forget....there is a lot of racism or hatred of others all over the world.....the people in Eastern Europe think ill of an ethnic group called the Roma who are more commonly referred to as Gypsies.....and it was in Europe in the middle of the last century that an effort was made to destroy an entire race of humans. So racism is not just a feature of life here in the United States and in many ways Americans have dealt with and taken on the issue to a much better degree than others elsewhere in the world.
So yes, of course, there would be people in this country that oppose Obama because he is Black.
But you know full well that the massive opposition to the proposed Obama policy is NOT because he is Black but because the people are opposed to the policy.
Obama's poll numbers have dropped. Thus there are people who voted for Obama who are now having buyers' remorse.
Were these people racist and voted for Obama anyway? Of course not.
Were these people not racist before but only recently become racist? Of course not.
As far as percentage, how the hell would I know? There is another U.S. Census coming up next year, in 2010, but I am sure "Are you racist?" will not be a question on the census!
All I DO know is that the percentage is a lot lower than what the media and The Nation would have you believe.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 09:45am
Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 09:09am "No, just want to see you answer this question honestly... Is there ANY opposition to Obama that is based on racism? And if so...ballpark what percentage?"
Posted by Mask at 09/17/2009 @ 09:21am
It's OK, I'll take this one.
Yes, mask, no doubt there is opposition to Obama based on racism. But since you brought it up, why don't you tell us what percentage of his opposition is racism. Just a ballpark would be fine.......
Posted by twillie at 09/17/2009 @ 09:52am
TIME IS THE CONSERVATIVES' only FRIEND! Posted by Happy at 09/17/2009 @ 09:21am |
Posted by snowball777 at 09/17/2009 @ 10:23am
Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 09:04am |
"Happy Valley" is a reference to Happy's favorite piece of so-called literature, but I can understand how someone like yourself who can't read all that well might not know that.
Maybe someone will make an Ayn Rand picture-pop-up book for you.
Posted by snowball777 at 09/17/2009 @ 10:28am
My theory on racism, apart from the obvious easily manipulated dimwittedness of it all, is that there is a much bigger world wide conspiracy happening before our very eyes that 99.9% totally dismiss as science fiction, but makes the most sense.
And it has more to do our ability to tolerate even bigger differences than the color of our skin or our cultural differences.
Raygun even hinted at it. J. Carter looked into it too w/out avail. (Funny that there were signs at the 60k Teabag rally stating Obama is an alien...)
What if the GOP really stood for the Great Orientation Process? What if there were groups like them all over the world pushing all our baser buttons on a counter impulse contention?
What happens to our world when most all people do not instinctively react fearfully to dumbass intolerance stimulation--- but rationally?
We are not alone in the universe folks and if we can't tolerate even these smallest of differences to help one another grow to learn ever more-- why would the multi-verse open it's arms to such an exaggeratedly blind fearfully intolerant petty population?
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 10:32am
No, Melissa, unfortunately, YOU CAN'T.
If you live to be 150, racism will ALWAYS be the reason for all the ils in the world. At least here. And apparently for many others as well.
I was hoping that the ascension of Barack Obama, the most refreshing liberal since Harry Truman and Franklin Roosevelt, would put an end to the nonsense of screaming "racist" at the drop of a political hat. I was too optimistic, as you demonstrate with your wedge driving article and senile old fools like Jimmy Carter demonstrated just yesterday with his toally unsubstantiated claims.
Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 09/17/2009 @ 10:32am
Anti this is off topic a little, I mean I will still be discussing racism, but this is solely between us. Urm you can have a field day on this one. And this is not to be inflammatory in any way. I know your wife is black and I assume your children are mixed judging by the fact that you have said you have only been married to one woman. Has your child ever come to you and told you that they have been called a slur by someone on the street or treated differently because of their skin color and how do you deal with that as a parent?
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/17/2009 @ 03:41am
We had to deal with occasions of racism. Not so much on the streets (after all, my kids were raised in So Cal and we even have lived in neighborhoods that were majority black and hispanic). But we had some incidents with a couple of racist LA County Sheriffs who arrested my youngest for supposedly carrying a weapon in school (a 3 inch pocket knife found in his back pack). He had been accosted by some white kids and the search by the sheriffs of all the boys revealed the pocket knife. He ended up being convicted and put into the system for a short period. We worked day and night to clear him and he later had the conviction reversed. He then went into the Marines right after High School. Became a Sergeant in just over 2 years in a Counter-Terrorism unit. Was personally decorated by Clinton. He now is a Fireman and paramedic.
Man years ago, my wife experienced the discrimination when looking for new housing for us. Some would be dismissive of her or say nothing was available. I would go back to the same place and be welcomed to move there. I would then bring my wife back in with me to confront them. We passed on several cases to US attorneys.
Posted by antisocialist at 09/17/2009 @ 10:39am
snowball777,
"Happy Valley" is a term that refers to the area of State College, Pennsylvania which is the location of Penn State University, but I can understand how someone like yourself who seems to have no concept of life in the real world might not know that.
Maybe Joe Paterno will visit sometime and explain it to you.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 10:48am
Obama's poll numbers have dropped. Thus there are people who voted for Obama who are now having buyers' remorse.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 09:45am
Well there are polls and then there are polls. Marist has Obama positive job approval not moving beyond +/-3% margin of error for the last 4-5 months; currently at 55%! PEW similarly had it at 59% in March and now at 52% and moving up! Yes polls do go up and down.
But to answer your question, yes some of those that were against Obama before are still racists. And some that are now not as enthused are not.
Your point then being that one can never truly tell whether an inappropriate action against any minority is truly per racism. And thus perhaps even hate crime convictions should as well be dismissed?
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 10:59am
"So yes, of course, there would be people in this country that oppose Obama because he is Black."------Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 09:45am
Okay, how do we discuss those few people...
and NOT be accused of "playing the race card"???
Give us the rules.
Posted by Mask at 09/17/2009 @ 11:02am
And why is it that nearly all of the "illiterati" stooges that post here never have any constructive ideas to share? All we get from them is a smarmy attitude and the pointing of fingers. Totally bereft of anything constructive. Posted by chaoszen at 09/17/2009 @ 08:43am | ignore this person | warn this person
--we have an early winner in the most IRONIC and least self-aware post of the day...it goes to...chaoszen! say a few "constructive" things in your acceptance speech please...
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 11:05am
BTW, if one of the major opponents of Pres. Obama had said, to a black caller to his radio show in the 1970s...
"Take that bone out of your nose and call me back"...
do we assume he's part of the racist minority segment or the "principle opposition" majority?
Posted by Mask at 09/17/2009 @ 11:05am
This is because Mask is in on these blogs. And Mask will be posting in shortly to "quote" me and thus take 180 degrees out of context what I was saying. Or I should say Mask would have posted in had I not just posted this comment....now because I have predicted Masks behavior Mask may not comment on it. Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 09:09am | ignore this person | warn this person
--Mask is "above" that...but when other's do it (esp. to him)...watch out! heheh
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 11:06am
hsubfools: ""You lie (boy)""
--hmmm...seems like someone's adding something that wasn't said to make their argument stronger. Why not just write "You lie" and call it racist? Is it because that's not a strong argument?
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 11:09am
Those who opposed his policies decried him as a ... Nazi, a bigot and a murderer. They suggested that his ideas were dangerous and threatened the values of the United States.
posted by Melissa Harris-Lacewell on 09/16/2009 @ 3:44pm
How many US presidents have NOT been criticized with similar ferocity (before 1945, substitute "dictator" for "Nazi")?
Posted by Mistral at 09/17/2009 @ 11:10am
Posted by Mask at 09/17/2009 @ 11:05am
So, Mask, surely you can prove Limbaugh said that, or provide a link to a source, right? You wouldn't just make up that quote out of dislike for him, would you?
Posted by twillie at 09/17/2009 @ 11:10am
"Happy Valley" is a term that refers to the area of State College,...
Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 10:48am
It's also an informal name for Galt's Gulch, and it's in Colorado....aka Ouray. I love the place and have moved it to my home.....:)
Posted by Happy at 09/17/2009 @ 11:14am
If anybody is interested in how deep racial discrimination runs in this country and to what extent white folks sense of entitlement fuels it, check
out http://integraltalk.wordpress.com.
I was recently compared to Karen Silkwood by a lawyer who refused to take my case because of political interference of the government officials involved. I have since been able to document the partnerships between the City of New York Human Resources Administration, District Council 37, and the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. The backstory to all of this is the cover up of millions of dollars re: HRA's computer inventory. I was set up to take the weight for all of this because I am a black woman. And btw the idea of a "race card" is offensive. It cheapens the depth of the experience of being black in America.
Check out the 1st excerpt from my September 16, 2009 letter to Attorney General Holder on this issue at http://integraltalk.wordpress.com
Real life. Real talk.
Posted by integraltalk at 09/17/2009 @ 11:22am
If anybody is interested in how deep racial discrimination runs in this country and to what extent white folks sense of entitlement fuels it, check
out http://integraltalk.wordpress.com.
I was recently compared to Karen Silkwood by a lawyer who refused to take my case because of political interference of the government officials involved. I have since been able to document the partnerships between the City of New York Human Resources Administration, District Council 37, and the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. The backstory to all of this is the cover up of millions of dollars re: HRA's computer inventory. I was set up to take the weight for all of this because I am a black woman. And btw the idea of a "race card" is offensive. It cheapens the depth of the experience of being black in America.
Check out the 1st excerpt from my September 16, 2009 letter to Attorney General Holder on this issue at http://integraltalk.wordpress.com
Real life. Real talk.
Posted by integraltalk at 09/17/2009 @ 11:23am
"Happy Vally" is the home of the Carcolo Clan in Jack Vance's novel "The Dragon Masters"
Posted by Mistral at 09/17/2009 @ 11:34am
Posted by integraltalk at 09/17/2009 @ 11:23am | ignore this person | warn this person
-you think a white "whistleblower" wouldn't get similar treatment?....c'mon!
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 11:37am
""You lie (boy)""
Why not just write "You lie" and call it racist? Is it because that's not a strong argument? Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 11:09am
(Wow you are such a new con repub apologist!)
Now is that statement more or less a statement because I put parenthesis?
No, it's implied. It's similar to assessing a negative behavior segregated to only a specific minority. If Joe "You Lie (boy)" Wilsin, had yelled that to hsuB in joint session for similar but non-racial reasons-- he'd have a leg to stand on. But then to lie about being an immigration lawyer to imply that 'it' was the true source of his anger, pretty much points directly to a shame he's attempting to hide. Plus the context of his personal history cumulatively points to his actions implication; its unspoken meaning.
AILA (American Immigration Lawyers Association) spokesman George Tzamaras confirms to TPMmuckraker that, according to an extensive search of the group's membership database, no one from South Carolina by the name Joe Wilson or Addison Wilson has ever been a member.
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 11:47am
""You lie (boy)"" Why not just write "You lie" and call it racist? Is it because that's not a strong argument?
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 11:09am
hsubfools: "(Wow you are such a new con repub apologist!)"
--for calling you out on putting words in someone's mouth?
hsubfools: "Now is that statement more or less a statement because I put parenthesis?"
--more.
hsubfools: "No, it's implied. It's similar to assessing a negative behavior segregated to only a specific minority."
--you're confusing imply with infer. the statement was, in its entirety, "you lie." you inferred "you lie boy" ... stating it was implied, of course, would make your argument stronger. you have no basis to say joe wilson was implying "boy" at the end of his statement. if he yelled "lie" without the "you" in front of it would there still be an implied "boy" after "lie" (as in "lie boy")? no, of course not...for grammatical reasons that would be absurd. You're inferring what you want to believe. People do it all the time. It doesn't mean you infer was implied by the speaker.
hsubfools: "If Joe "You Lie (boy)" Wilsin, had yelled that to hsuB in joint session for similar but non-racial reasons-- he'd have a leg to stand on. But then to lie about being an immigration lawyer to imply that 'it' was the true source of his anger, pretty much points directly to a shame he's attempting to hide. Plus the context of his personal history cumulatively points to his actions implication; its unspoken meaning."
--why would a republican say such a thing to another republican? c'mon now! he had an outburst. it made him look stupid. it's not automatically racist because he's white and the president is black. Re: lying about being an immigration lawyer. Please provide a link, thanks.
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 11:55am
How can new con repubs be self aware of racism? How do fish know that they're wet?
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 11:59am
How can new con repubs be self aware of racism? How do fish know that they're wet?
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 12:00pm
If you would like to see just how deeply ingrained racism is in this country check out how I am fighting for my life due to racism and corruption in New York City. Its like Jim Crow meeting Tammany Hall. Following is the link to an excerpt to my September 16, 2009 letter to Attorney General Holder.
http://integraltalk.wordpress.com
Posted by integraltalk at 09/17/2009 @ 12:03pm
How can new con repubs be self aware of racism?
How do you teach fish to know that they're wet?
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 12:04pm
Joe Wilsin lies about why he's concerned:
http://tinyurl.com/lewggc
Teabagger leader melts down about lying:
http://tinyurl.com/qtrhrh
The Teabaggers lie about their crowd:
http://tinyurl.com/m4e4lm
Birthers get kicked out of court for made up shit:
http://tinyurl.com/qzdezm
ACORN worker punks the faux spews punkers:
http://tinyurl.com/kn95d9
And the GOP is/has nothing else but more of this shit. Do they really need to also be racists?
Oh why not.
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/16/2009 @ 10:52pm
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 12:08pm
well,
mr. obama does same some fibs....
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/17/2009 @ 12:14pm
well,
mr. obama does say some fibs....
Posted by frosty zoom at 09/17/2009 @ 12:14pm
Mask,
You are asking how to discuss "those few people" (referring to racists) and not be accused of playing the race card.
It is odd you would ask that question because I never see on leftist websites or amongst too much of the media the desire to discuss "those few people".
It does not seem the left has any desire to discuss "those few people".
What the left has the desire to do and continually does is discuss Conservatives in a manner to imply we are all far out racists, taking the actions of "those few people" and making implications through the tone of articles/commentary that "those few people" are representative of everybody on the Right.
In other words, your side of the political fence does not want to discuss "those few people".
What your side of the political fence wants to do is to accuse Conservatives of racism anytime a Conservative has issues with a Black Democrats' policy, for the purpose of forcing the Conservatives to self-censor themselves, in order for the left to gain political advantage.
You are asking a question about how to do something you have no desire to do anyway.
Of course, separate from any question of race or political ideology, you of course are simply engaging in Mask like behavior because you ARE Mask, thus asking a question about how to do something you have no desire to do anyway is par for the course and normal for you.
It would be abnormal and unusual if you did not do that.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 12:17pm
How can new con repubs be self aware of racism? How do fish know that they're wet? Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 12:00pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--this type of prejudice serves you how? to make you feel superior? like the people you claim to have a problem with?
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 12:29pm
sjchermak--the 12:17 post was pure gold!
Mask: "just want to see you answer this question honestly...Is there ANY opposition to Obama that is based on racism? And if so...ballpark what percentage?"
--of course, sjchermak asked Mask to tell us what the ballpark percentage is of opposition to Obama based on racism...to which Mask ignores the question. So he demands a question be answered (thinking he can use that answer against someone later)...but when the person he asks smartly says, "you tell me?"...Mask shuts right up!
OWNED!
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 12:43pm
Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 12:17pm
Look, let's face it. This is a topic that is used as a political football.
If you are a democrat and you own the black community, and you are aware of the collective chip that they carry around on their collective shoulders, you might feel free to utter racism at every opportunity because you know you are catering to a sixable part of the future electorate, especially in large urban areas.
On the other hand, if you are a republican and you harbor resentment because of years of abuse of the system by scam artists and welfare fraud, but you still have a heart and do not want to see anyone go hungry, especially children, you may have to confront your own prejudice but you will rail against anyone calling you a racist in a blanket way.
If you are an independent, like myself, you are free to condemn the democrats for their hypocrisy and their obvious looking the other way, (ACORN for example), and the republicans for letting their own shortcomings, in the form of prejudice, blind them to the plight of legitimate concerns of the poor and dis-advantaged. Some people will never be productive human beings. So what would you do with these people? That's the big question. Another question? How do you provide for the less fortunate among us and seperate the truly needy from the freeloaders and abusers? It's a difficult question.
Any republican who comes up with a solution will be called a racist. Any democrat will be lookied upon as a hyopcritical tax and spender or an income redistrubition advocate.
Quite frankly, I don't know how we haven't fought our second Civil War yet. Only the art of compromise has kept us from each others throats, that and lots of taxpayers generosity. Obama needs to start uniting.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/17/2009 @ 1:02pm
Posted by twillie at 09/17/2009 @ 11:10am
Sure...
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/limbaugh.asp
Posted by Mask at 09/17/2009 @ 1:13pm
Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 12:17pm
Odd, if you read what you posted....
you never gave me an answer.
Just kept telling me that I and "leftists" DON'T WANT an answer....and conveniently didn't supply one (as per our "wishes").
See, "playing the race card" is simply a phrase to be used to claim that ANY claims of racism are false. If confronted, you say "There may be a few racists"....
but then you don't tell us how we are to distinquish between the racists and the "principled opposition"....because to do so would SEPARATE you from the racists..
whom you NEED as part of your voting bloc.
Posted by Mask at 09/17/2009 @ 1:15pm
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/17/2009 @ 1:02pm
Amazing how many "independents" like gun or RIO/Big Posture...
are so "dependent" on supporting the Republican Party and attacking the Democratic Party???
heheh
Posted by Mask at 09/17/2009 @ 1:17pm
"If you are an independent, like myself, you are free to condemn the democrats for their hypocrisy and their obvious looking the other way, (ACORN for example), and the republicans for letting their own shortcomings, in the form of prejudice, blind them to the plight of legitimate concerns of the poor and dis-advantaged "
"looking the other way" = cutting off their paltry $3 million in annual funding
ACORN has tens of thousands of volunteers, who help extremely poor, desperate people, mostly black and latino. that's all they do. they HELP POOR PEOPLE.
and they ONLY receive $3 million in federal funds annually.
let's compare that to the TRILLIONS we give to banks and hedge funds.
acorn has only received 35 million over the last 15 years. that is nothing, compared to what we give defense contractors and banks.
and, mind you, that 3 million in annual funding HELPS POOR PEOPLE.
and that 3 million is now gone.
way to go congress! thanks for helping out!
Posted by darladoon at 09/17/2009 @ 1:27pm
Kudos to President Obama who, as we speak, is awarding posthumously, the Congressional Medal of Honor, our nations highest military award, to SFC Jared C. Monti. This soldier, in battle in Afghanistan, under heavy fire, attempted three times to offer his own life to rescue a fellow soldier who was shot up and left exposed on the field and also directed artillary support onto the enemy beforehand. RPG's, machine gun fire, and small arms fire rained in on Sgt. Monti. He said, "He is my soldier and I'm going to get him."
Monti's patrol leader said that it was the bravest thing he'd ever seen. Sgt. Monti and three others lost their lives that day, including the wounded soldier, but their efforts resulted in the enemy being defeated.
When we think of the word hero, it is people like SFC Jared C. Monti that it is meant to describe. Not sports stars or role models but true heroes who put themselves in the line of fire every day, military personnel, firefighters and police.
Staff Sgt. Monti's actions reflected true valor and courage and most importantly his dedication to his duty. On his first attempt, SGT. Monti found cover behind a stone wall. He could have stayed there and saved his own life. But he wasn't there to hide behind a stone wall, he had a job to do.
It didn't matter if the soldier he was trying to rescue was black, white, brown or any other color. He was a fellow soldier, a human being who was in trouble. If Sgt. Monti was able, he was going to bring him to safety.
At today's service, there were several politicians present besides the President, including some of those who just a couple of days ago called another patriotic hero, Joe Wilson, a racist. Today is a good day for reflection and for everyone to take a good look in the mirror.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/17/2009 @ 1:28pm
Kudos to President Obama who, as we speak, is awarding posthumously, the Congressional Medal of Honor, our nations highest military award, to SFC Jared C. Monti. This soldier, in battle in Afghanistan, under heavy fire, attempted three times to offer his own life to rescue a fellow soldier who was shot up and left exposed on the field and also directed artillary support onto the enemy beforehand. RPG's, machine gun fire, and small arms fire rained in on Sgt. Monti. He said, "He is my soldier and I'm going to get him."
Monti's patrol leader said that it was the bravest thing he'd ever seen. Sgt. Monti and three others lost their lives that day, including the wounded soldier, but their efforts resulted in the enemy being defeated.
When we think of the word hero, it is people like SFC Jared C. Monti that it is meant to describe. Not sports stars or role models but true heroes who put themselves in the line of fire every day, military personnel, firefighters and police.
Staff Sgt. Monti's actions reflected true valor and courage and most importantly his dedication to his duty. On his first attempt, SGT. Monti found cover behind a stone wall. He could have stayed there and saved his own life. But he wasn't there to hide behind a stone wall, he had a job to do.
It didn't matter if the soldier he was trying to rescue was black, white, brown or any other color. He was a fellow soldier, a human being who was in trouble. If Sgt. Monti was able, he was going to bring him to safety.
At today's service, there were several politicians present besides the President, including some of those who just a couple of days ago called another patriotic hero, Joe Wilson, a racist. Today is a good day for reflection and for everyone to take a good look in the mirror.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/17/2009 @ 1:28pm
and, of course, the fox news-spearheaded effort to kill acorn funding (which mainly helps black and latino people), succeeded, and obviously, it wasn't racially motivated at all. right. whatever.
and glenn beck said (and i quote): "i think obama has a deep-seated hatred for white people"
uh-huh. right.
Posted by darladoon at 09/17/2009 @ 1:29pm
and since when do liberals "play the race card" at every opportunity?
every opportunity?
just think of what you're saying.
"every" opportunity?
Posted by darladoon at 09/17/2009 @ 1:31pm
Posted by Mask at 09/17/2009 @ 1:17pm
Right now, it's the democrats, namely Jimmy Carter and the Black Caucus and liberal media personalities who are calling people racists. Do you want to defend them? Go right ahead.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/17/2009 @ 1:34pm
--you're confusing imply with infer...you have no basis to say joe wilson was implying "boy" at the end of his statement. Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 11:55am
Communication consists of a message, a sender, and a receiver. The sender can imply, but the receiver can only infer.
IMPLICATION = what the sender has implied
INFERENCE = what the receiver has inferred
And of course I have every basis to contend that Joe "You lie (boy)" Wilsin implied (boy). It's a fact that no one in congress has done a similar thing to another president ever. And all the other presidents have been white. It is a fact that Joe "You lie (boy)" Wilsin "belonged to the Sons of Confederate Veterans, led a 2000 campaign to keep the Confederate flag waving above South Carolina's state Capitol and denounced as a "smear" the true claim of a black woman that she was the daughter of Strom Thurmond, the '48 segregationist candidate for president." "Wilson worked for Strom Thurmond right after Thurmond switched party affliations as a protest against racial equality, and just a few years after Thurmond held the longest filibuster in history to halt civil rights legislation."
Unlike you I do not have my head buried in the sand ignoring the organized xenophobia directed at our president. That these low-lives are now praising Joe "You lie (boy)" Wilsin as their hero, is indefensible.
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 1:42pm
Mask: "Odd, if you read what you posted....you never gave me an answer."
--neither did you. He asked you the same question...crickets from you on that question."
Mask: "Just kept telling me that I and "leftists" DON'T WANT an answer....and conveniently didn't supply one (as per our "wishes")."
--so use this time now to supply an answer. What percentage of people who oppose Obama oppose him because of racism? maybe you'll surprise and actually come up with an answer.
Mask: "See, "playing the race card" is simply a phrase to be used to claim that ANY claims of racism are false. If confronted, you say "There may be a few racists"...."
--so prove the "playing the race card" line wrong and tell us what percentage of people who oppose Obama do so because of racism...if you come up with nothing substantive, saying that you are race-baiting doesn't seem so unfounded, does it?
Mask: "but then you don't tell us how we are to distinquish between the racists and the "principled opposition"....because to do so would SEPARATE you from the racists..whom you NEED as part of your voting bloc."
--so there's nothing to be gained, from the liberal point of view, of making non-white people feel like all conservatives/republicans are racists, huh? there's no benefit to be had? heheh
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 1:43pm
Posted by darladoon at 09/17/2009 @ 1:27pm
Place the blame where it belongs. ACORN brought this down upon themselves by hiring peole who see nothing wrong with evading the IRS, refusing to open their books and actually firing nine members of their own Board of Directors who suggested that they should, offering advice to undercover journalists how to shelter a prostitution ring, complete with twelve 13 and 14 year old girls from El Salvadore, and being caught on tape not once but at least five times in five different offices across the country. There are more tapes coming.
ACORN is under investigation in a number of states for fradulant election practices, like registering dead people and even Mickey Mouse of all things. Investigations are warranted because this agency uses taxpayer dollars. They are no different form any other agency that should be investigated for doing the same. ACORN doesn't get a pass just because President Obama once worked for them and was actually their lawyer at one time.
Also your three million figure is a little dishonest. Perhaps you haven't heard that ACORN is in line, under the stimulus bill, to recieve 1.8 billion dollars, that's billion with a 'B' over the next decade. This was one of President Obama's first concerns as he entered office, funding ACORN.
The investigations have only just begun. Democrats, unfortunately, are being brought along kicking and screaming.
There are plenty of other agencies both federal and local and also faith-based who help poor people. ACORN may be a loss to democrats because of their ability to turn out millions of democratic voters, (many fradulant btw), but I doubt if it will be a loss to poor people. It's a black eye for Obama. Let's you and I help clean it up, ok Darla?
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/17/2009 @ 1:50pm
hsubfools: "Communication consists of a message, a sender, and a receiver. The sender can imply, but the receiver can only infer. IMPLICATION = what the sender has implied INFERENCE = what the receiver has inferred"
--I already said this (w/out acting like a stuffy 5th grade english teacher).
hsubfools: "And of course I have every basis to contend that Joe "You lie (boy)" Wilsin implied (boy)."
--your quotes are inaccurate. you only quote what someone said, verbatim. "you lie" is all you can put in quotes. you're inferring "boy" (and inaccurately; because it wasn't implied).
hsubfools: "It's a fact that no one in congress has done a similar thing to another president ever. And all the other presidents have been white. It is a fact that Joe "You lie (boy)" Wilsin "belonged to the Sons of Confederate Veterans, led a 2000 campaign to keep the Confederate flag waving above South Carolina's state Capitol and denounced as a "smear" the true claim of a black woman that she was the daughter of Strom Thurmond, the '48 segregationist candidate for president." "Wilson worked for Strom Thurmond right after Thurmond switched party affliations as a protest against racial equality, and just a few years after Thurmond held the longest filibuster in history to halt civil rights legislation." Unlike you I do not have my head buried in the sand ignoring the organized xenophobia directed at our president. That these low-lives are now praising Joe "You lie (boy)" Wilsin as their hero, is indefensible."
--where's the link I asked you to provide to Wilson saying he was an immigration lawyer and the evidence that you have that he lied about it? If you provide me with evidence that he's a liar, that's cool. But provide a link please, thanks.
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 1:50pm
How can new con repubs be self aware of racism? How do fish know that they're wet? Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 12:00pm | ignore this person | warn this person --this type of prejudice serves you how? to make you feel superior? like the people you claim to have a problem with? Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 12:29pm
Just heard Rump Limppaw say that about some other group. It seemed applicable and proves a point that new con repubs whine to high heaven like the devil quotes from the bible-- all to serve a greedy outcome.
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 1:55pm
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 1:42pm
In reference to Wilson, the only 'boys' I'm concerned about are his own, four of which served in the military, three of whom served in Iraq at the same time. Keep slandering Joe Wilson. You're coming across as a real smear merchant.
BTW, you do realize that people in northern states before and during the Civil War also kept slaves, right?
You also realize that the south is every bit as proud of their ancestors who served under the Confederate flag and we northerners are of of our ancestors who served under the American flag. If the south had won, there would have been two national flags now flying over two nations. It was a war that defined America. The south doesn't think that their ancestors died in vein. Blacks, once again need to drop the chip and join the country in it's united future. Hopefully President Obama will address this divide before his four years are up.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/17/2009 @ 1:58pm
Following is the link to an excerpt to my September 16, 2009 letter to Attorney General Holder.
http://integraltalk.wordpress.com
Posted by integraltalk at 09/17/2009 @ 12:03pm
By viewing your blog, it seems you are a professional victocrat using the hostility between you and your husband's ex wife to justify your "victim" status.
Posted by antisocialist at 09/17/2009 @ 2:00pm
Just heard Rump Limppaw say that about some other group. It seemed applicable and proves a point that new con repubs whine to high heaven like the devil quotes from the bible-- all to serve a greedy outcome. Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 1:55pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--what?
--and where's the link to the joe wilson stuff I've been asking you about? you made a claim...I'd just like to see where you got it from. thanks.
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 2:04pm
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 1:50pm
'You' can only 'infer' that Joe "You lie (boy)" Wilsin didn't imply (boy).
Joe Wilsin lies about why he's concerned: http://tinyurl.com/lewggc
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/16/2009 @ 10:52pm
Plus:
http://tinyurl.com/nbdg7h
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 2:05pm
hsubfools: "'You' can only 'infer' that Joe "You lie (boy)" Wilsin didn't imply (boy)."
--that's some incredibly flawed logic.
First: you're putting a word NOT SAID in quotes; i.e. boy. Basic rules of grammar should make it clear to you that only verbatim speech goes in quotes. You're attributing something NOT SAID as if it were said. Does this mean one can't make an inference; that one can't believe words that were uttered imply a certain meaning? of course not. But, and this will probably be too much for you to understand, but I don't have to rely on an inference that he DIDN'T imply boy. He didn't say boy. I can rely on that objective truth. He didn't say it. Does that mean there's no chance he didn't imply it? No. But I can rely, on basic logic, that he didn't imply anything more than what he said. You're the one that's adding to what was said. The burden's on you to persuade that "boy" was implied. You've done a terrible job.
But thank you for the links; I will read them now. Hopefully they are responsive to my questions.
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 2:27pm
$9 billion unaccounted for - disappeared - poof!, in Iraq to no bid contracts and the whiny new con repubs are ok with that; no protest rallies, no "You lie (boy)" to hsuB. No "You lie (boy)" when hsuB lied about outing a covert agent. No "You lie (boy)" about Brownie's doing a heck of a job. No "You lie (boy)" when hsuB said they never tortured. No "You lie (boy)" when hsuB authorized illegally wiretaps of our phones. On and on, but new con repubs can't see the hypocrisy that kind of outcry would've been at least considered debatable having been done after the fact.
But to attack our president before the fact-- is flagrant.
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 2:28pm
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 2:27pm
You are truly demented.
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 2:32pm
'...and, of course, the fox news-spearheaded effort to kill ACORN funding (which mainly helps black and latino people)...' -- darladoon
'In the case of its best-known and most controversial work--brothel raids--IJM provides evidence of trafficking to Police in countries including India, Cambodia, the Philippines and, in the past, Thailand; and it collaborates on "interventions" to remove victims from the establishments and arrest and prosecute their abusers.' -- Noy Thrupkaew -- The Nation -- 16 September, 2009 -- http://w ww.thenation.com/do c/20091005/thrup kaew
Posted by HonestLiberal at 09/17/2009 @ 2:32pm
husbfools; I read the first article you linked to. It does not have definitive evidence that Wilson is lying about practicing immigration law...and it is clearly written from an extremely liberal point of view, calling Wilson's outburst "xenophobic" (even though he said "you lie").
I wouldn't be surprised if you're Michelle Chen, the writer of that article.
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 2:32pm
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 2:27pm You are truly demented. Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 2:32pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--how so?
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 2:34pm
I ASK AGAIN>>>>>>
Are the WHITE blue dog democrats that oppose Obamacare Racists???
Cause as Jimmy and many here have said...Opposing your marxist messiah is an act of Racism right??
You got some splainin to do freaks
Posted by libzRfreaks2 at 09/17/2009 @ 2:35pm
How does one teach fish they're wet?
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 2:41pm
How does one teach fish they're wet? Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 2:41pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--that's how I feel when you put IN QUOTES something somebody didn't say...treating your inference as though it were verbatim to give it more legitimacy.
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 2:50pm
Fools got that quote from Rush today....
You know you Libz love him...20 mil listeners cant be all wrong
Posted by libzRfreaks2 at 09/17/2009 @ 2:54pm
Re: the statement about Japanese-American reparations:
"In 1945 the internment camps were closed and in 1948 reparations were made to many of the survivors."
It was actually 1988 before any reparations were forthcoming.
Posted by JSimons305 at 09/17/2009 @ 2:55pm
How does one teach fish they're wet? Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 2:41pm --that's how I feel ... Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 2:50pm
You feel all wet or like a fish or like a wet fish-- which is it?
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 3:02pm
How does one teach fish they're wet?
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 2:41pm
Do you like fish sticks?
Posted by Mistral at 09/17/2009 @ 3:03pm
Posted by JSimons305 at 09/17/2009 @ 2:55pm
Maybe it was just a typo. My impression of Ms. Lacewell is that her entire life's work will be to promote the interests of black people. This is America however and black people are only a prt of the country's make-up. She'll probably always have lucrative employment in her field, a little like Michael Moore.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/17/2009 @ 3:04pm
How does one teach fish they're wet? Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 2:41pm --that's how I feel ... Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 2:50pm You feel all wet or like a fish or like a wet fish-- which is it? Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 3:02pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--another engaging in his own Maskerade! Obsessed with right-wing media and unwilling to converse in any meaningful way.
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 3:05pm
Maybe it was just a typo. My impression of Ms. Lacewell is that her entire life's work will be to promote the interests of black people. This is America however and black people are only a prt of the country's make-up. She'll probably always have lucrative employment in her field, a little like Michael Moore. Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/17/2009 @ 3:04pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--like many business people she's found a niche that works for her. she gets paid. why stop the gravy train?
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 3:06pm
What the hell is wrong with Nancy Pelosi? This is someone who is two heartbeats away from the Presidency for God's sake. First she calls the CIA liars and now she's telling people to tone down the rhetoric before it turns to violence. Is she referring to Jimmy Carter? Or maybe to Bill Maher or Keith Olbermann? Or Limbaugh and Hannity? Is San Francisco so far out of the mainstream that Pelosi doesn't realize that different people have different opinions and that they are, under our Constitution free to speak their minds? Maybe she'd like to muzzle certain people. Like Joe Wilson.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/17/2009 @ 3:09pm
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 3:06pm
She's a race-baiter. Pelosi wants her to tone it down.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/17/2009 @ 3:12pm
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 3:06pm She's a race-baiter. Pelosi wants her to tone it down. Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/17/2009 @ 3:12pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--like you said, when one makes their living discussing race, they are keenly aware that negativity sells
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 3:16pm
Calling someone a liar does not make someone a racist.
Trying to smear a health care bill by slinging the "illegal immigrant" issue at it most certainly DOES make someone a racist.
Posted by mdetrano at 09/17/2009 @ 3:38pm
There are many times when the race card is overplayed; this is not one of them. If Barack Obama were a white sitting President, Wilson would not have called him a liar in the House of Representatives - plain and simple - regardless of how much Wilson disagreed with him or what party he belonged to. Wilson said he lost control of himself. Of course he did; all the vitriol of decades of personal hatred for people of color couldn't help but come rushing out of him at the sight of an African descendent occupying the position that should only be reserved for white Anglo-Saxon Protestants. The man was a protege' of that great racist, Strom Thurmond, the great defender of Segregation, who couldn't allow Blacks to urinate in the same place as a white person, but had no problem putting his instrument of urination inside the vaginal canal of a Black woman. Are you kidding me?? And to all those who say that George Bush was called some nasty things by opponents when he was President (and rightfully so): those were said in the press or on TV shows, not on the floor of the House in the middle of Presidential address to the nation. No comparison. I have no problem with Wilson calling Obama a liar, but I do have a problem with him doing so in that setting, at that time. As far as Wilson's concerned, some Black "boy" occupying the White House is an outrage tantamount to his sister being gang-banged by the Harlem Globetrotters. Anyone who says Wilson's outburst wasn't racially based is either trying to bullshit the rest of us, or trying to bullshit themselves.
Posted by bad_daddy at 09/17/2009 @ 3:45pm
How does one teach fish they're wet? Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 2:41pm Do you like fish sticks? Posted by Mistral at 09/17/2009 @ 3:03pm
Do they stick in the mud?
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 3:45pm
"You lie (boy)" is a rallying cry for all 'the slow witted'- 'threatened' -'over compensating' - 'greedy' shits itching and ready for a little push:
posted by hsuBfools
Let me get this straight. I'm opposing a healthcare bill that will add about a trillion dollars to our budget and probably end up just as bankrupt as Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security and I'M the greedy one?
Which is more indicative of greed? The desire to keep that which I earned through my own labor or the desire to confiscate and spend OTHER people's money?
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 3:52pm
Posted by bad_daddy at 09/17/2009 @ 3:45pm
There seems to be a real influx of twisted lying leftists to the Nation website lately.
Posted by antisocialist at 09/17/2009 @ 3:57pm
unwilling to converse in any meaningful way. Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 3:05pm
You assume you yourself do? I find that humorous in it's flagrant dishonesty.
BTW here's another corrected quote: "You lie, boy!"
http://tinyurl.com/lxgn4n
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 3:59pm
How does one teach fish they're wet?
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 2:41pm
Would it hurt if you made the effort? I'd like to know. I'd certainly not want to live in ignorance of my own racism.
So give a shot. Declaring somebody or some argument "racist" is certainly not in the same league as demonstrating through argumentation that somebody actually is racist.
I remember back in the 1990s a member of the Black Caucus declaring the phrase "tax cuts" to be codespeak for racism.
How can we have objective standards of discussion when our very language is subjected to this sort of Orwellian newspeak revision?
No, I'm going to need something more than a declaration of racism. Give me an Aristotelean syllogism to the effect. Some explained "IF, THEN" causalities. Through some modus polens and tollens in there.
For one thing I find particularly arrogant of much of the Left is the assumption on their part that their statements are self-evident and never in need of explanation. They do not deign to be "politically bilingual". We conservatives must speak our own language, but we must be conversant in yours as well.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 4:02pm
How does one teach fish they're wet?
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 2:41pm
Would it hurt if you made the effort? I'd like to know. I'd certainly not want to live in ignorance of my own racism.
So give a shot. Declaring somebody or some argument "racist" is certainly not in the same league as demonstrating through argumentation that somebody actually is racist.
I remember back in the 1990s a member of the Black Caucus declaring the phrase "tax cuts" to be codespeak for racism.
How can we have objective standards of discussion when our very language is subjected to this sort of Orwellian newspeak revision?
No, I'm going to need something more than a declaration of racism. Give me an Aristotelean syllogism to the effect. Some explained "IF, THEN" causalities. Through some modus polens and tollens in there.
For one thing I find particularly arrogant of much of the Left is the assumption on their part that their statements are self-evident and never in need of explanation. They do not deign to be "politically bilingual". We conservatives must speak our own language, but we must be conversant in yours as well.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 4:02pm
How does one teach fish they're wet?
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 2:41pm
Would it hurt if you made the effort? I'd like to know. I'd certainly not want to live in ignorance of my own racism.
So give a shot. Declaring somebody or some argument "racist" is certainly not in the same league as demonstrating through argumentation that somebody actually is racist.
I remember back in the 1990s a member of the Black Caucus declaring the phrase "tax cuts" to be codespeak for racism.
How can we have objective standards of discussion when our very language is subjected to this sort of Orwellian newspeak revision?
No, I'm going to need something more than a declaration of racism. Give me an Aristotelean syllogism to the effect. Some explained "IF, THEN" causalities. Through some modus polens and tollens in there.
For one thing I find particularly arrogant of much of the Left is the assumption on their part that their statements are self-evident and never in need of explanation. They do not deign to be "politically bilingual". We conservatives must speak our own language, but we must be conversant in yours as well.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 4:02pm
If Obama is a liar, one would expect additional lies to surface. Here libs, chew on these.
<To highlight abusive practices, Mr. Obama referred to an Illinois man who "lost his coverage in the middle of chemotherapy because his insurer found he hadn't reported gallstones that he didn't even know about." The president continued: "They delayed his treatment, and he died because of it."
Although the president has used this example previously, his conclusion is contradicted by the transcript of a June 16 hearing on industry practices before the Subcommittee of Oversight and Investigation of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce. The deceased's sister testified that the insurer reinstated her brother's coverage following intervention by the Illinois Attorney General's Office. She testified that her brother received a prescribed stem-cell transplant within the desired three- to four-week "window of opportunity" from "one of the most renowned doctors in the whole world on the specific routine," that the procedure "was extremely successful," and that "it extended his life nearly three and a half years.">
http://tinyurl.com/mgex9q
Posted by antisocialist at 09/17/2009 @ 4:06pm
unwilling to converse in any meaningful way. Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 3:05pm
You assume you yourself do? I find that humorous in it's flagrant dishonesty.
BTW here's another corrected quote: "You lie, boy!" http://tinyurl.com/lxgn4n
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 3:59pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--your conclusion of "flagrant dishonesty" is a joke.
but not surprising from someone who claims joe wilson said "you lie, negro"
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 4:07pm
>>>Yes we can to justice and equality. Yes we can to opportunity and prosperity. Yes we can heal this nation. Yes we can repair this world. Yes we can. <<<
Until we see ourselves in those who look different than us, in those who worship in a different manner, and in those who think differently than we do, we will always attempt to exalt ourselves over others, and this is the source of racism and oppression.
Nearly all conflict is caused by this inability to acknowledge and accept the common aspirations that we share with others. We trick ourselves into thinking that only our own subgroup is important, or that superior power to destroy makes us superior human beings.
As we boldly assert a new progressive vision for America and the world, we should always remind ourselves that all of us belong to the same family, and taking care of this larger family is what makes us human.
Posted by Metteyya at 09/17/2009 @ 4:12pm
>>>Yes we can to justice and equality. Yes we can to opportunity and prosperity. Yes we can heal this nation. Yes we can repair this world. Yes we can. <<<
Until we see ourselves in those who look different than us, in those who worship in a different manner, and in those who think differently than we do, we will always attempt to exalt ourselves over others, and this is the source of racism and oppression.
Nearly all conflict is caused by this inability to acknowledge and accept the common aspirations that we share with others. We trick ourselves into thinking that only our own subgroup is important, or that superior power to destroy makes us superior human beings.
As we boldly assert a new progressive vision for America and the world, we should always remind ourselves that all of us belong to the same family, and taking care of this larger family is what makes us human.
Posted by Metteyya at 09/17/2009 @ 4:13pm
>>>Yes we can to justice and equality. Yes we can to opportunity and prosperity. Yes we can heal this nation. Yes we can repair this world. Yes we can. <<<
Until we see ourselves in those who look different than us, in those who worship in a different manner, and in those who think differently than we do, we will always attempt to exalt ourselves over others, and this is the source of racism and oppression.
Nearly all conflict is caused by this inability to acknowledge and accept the common aspirations that we share with others. We trick ourselves into thinking that only our own subgroup is important, or that superior power to destroy makes us superior human beings.
As we boldly assert a new progressive vision for America and the world, we should always remind ourselves that all of us belong to the same family, and taking care of this larger family is what makes us human.
Posted by Metteyya at 09/17/2009 @ 4:13pm
<Later in his speech, the president used Alabama to buttress his call for a government insurer to enhance competition in health insurance. He asserted that 90% of the Alabama health-insurance market is controlled by one insurer, and that high market concentration "makes it easier for insurance companies to treat their customers badly--by cherry-picking the healthiest individuals and trying to drop the sickest; by overcharging small businesses who have no leverage; and by jacking up rates."
In fact, the Birmingham News reported immediately following the speech that the state's largest health insurer, the nonprofit Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Alabama, has about a 75% market share. A representative of the company indicated that its "profit" averaged only 0.6% of premiums the past decade, and that its administrative expense ratio is 7% of premiums, the fourth lowest among 39 Blue Cross and Blue Shield plans nationwide.
Similarly, a Dec. 31, 2007, report by the Alabama Department of Insurance indicates that the insurer's ratio of medical-claim costs to premiums for the year was 92%, with an administrative expense ratio (including claims settlement expenses) of 7.5%. Its net income, including investment income, was equivalent to 2% of premiums in that year. >
http://tinyurl.com/mgex9q
Obama ridiculed Hilary Clinton for proposing mandates and now promotes them-lying once again.
Posted by antisocialist at 09/17/2009 @ 4:15pm
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 3:52pm
Where were you new con repubs when hsuB/cHeney were committing trillions to Iraq, future death and disability healthcare for surviving vets, disappeared billions to no bid contractors, secret energy and big pharm kickback deals? Not a peep even after the fact-- No "You lie (boy)" for hsuB/cHeney. No rallies protesting the lost treasure. But before the fact-- it's ok to brand our current president a liar especially when he's not. And even then it's because it's going to the poorest of us. What shear excessively obvious bias to the Nth degree if not only it's flagrantly racist motivation-- it's hatred of or poor.
Greed.
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 4:19pm
We had to deal with occasions of racism. Not so much on the streets (after all, my kids were raised in So Cal and we even have lived in neighborhoods that were majority black and hispanic). But we had some incidents with a couple of racist LA County Sheriffs who arrested my youngest for supposedly carrying a weapon in school (a 3 inch pocket knife found in his back pack). He had been accosted by some white kids and the search by the sheriffs of all the boys revealed the pocket knife. He ended up being convicted and put into the system for a short period. We worked day and night to clear him and he later had the conviction reversed. He then went into the Marines right after High School. Became a Sergeant in just over 2 years in a Counter-Terrorism unit. Was personally decorated by Clinton. He now is a Fireman and paramedic.
Man years ago, my wife experienced the discrimination when looking for new housing for us. Some would be dismissive of her or say nothing was available. I would go back to the same place and be welcomed to move there. I would then bring my wife back in with me to confront them. We passed on several cases to US attorneys.
Posted by antisocialist at 09/17/2009 @ 10:39am
It's a terrible thing. I experienced a similar situation to your son. I was pulled over by the police and they automatically assumed I had drugs or was selling them, neither of which is true because I have only smoked pot twice in my life and have never sold it, so they arrested me so they could search my car. It's not a fun experience they ended up not showing up in court because there was nothing they could charge me on.
My parents are also both real estate agents and they have told me about people redlining. It's an ugly part of this world.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/17/2009 @ 4:20pm
My parents are also both real estate agents and they have told me about people redlining. It's an ugly part of this world.
Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/17/2009 @ 4:20pm
agreed
Posted by antisocialist at 09/17/2009 @ 4:22pm
Until we see ourselves in those who look different than us, in those who worship in a different manner, and in those who think differently than we do, we will always attempt to exalt ourselves over others, and this is the source of racism and oppression.
Posted by Metteyya at 09/17/2009 @ 4:13pm
Lord knows I've tried to look for common ground. There was a day back in 2005 when my platoon was constructing a traffic control checkpoint a few miles south of the al Dora refinery. The day before that, another group of Americans was handing out candy and soccer balls (real popular gift, those), when a terrorist aimed his vbied (vehicle borne improvised explosive device) at the humvees then crowded over with eager, smiling Iraqi children. I think about 15 kids died in that blast. The next day, there I was, surrounded by a bunch of Iraqi kids looking for handouts, trying to sell us sodas, or just eager to get a look at these outlandish men seemingly straight out of a Hollywood dvd.
And all I could think of was the monster who just a day before killed 15 of them just to get some Americans handing out candy.
I do not believe I have common ground with somebody like that. And of the two of us, I'll wager that he was more the racist than I could ever be.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 4:27pm
Until we see ourselves in those who look different than us, in those who worship in a different manner, and in those who think differently than we do, we will always attempt to exalt ourselves over others, and this is the source of racism and oppression.
Posted by Metteyya at 09/17/2009 @ 4:13pm
Lord knows I've tried to look for common ground. There was a day back in 2005 when my platoon was constructing a traffic control checkpoint a few miles south of the al Dora refinery. The day before that, another group of Americans was handing out candy and soccer balls (real popular gift, those), when a terrorist aimed his vbied (vehicle borne improvised explosive device) at the humvees then crowded over with eager, smiling Iraqi children. I think about 15 kids died in that blast. The next day, there I was, surrounded by a bunch of Iraqi kids looking for handouts, trying to sell us sodas, or just eager to get a look at these outlandish men seemingly straight out of a Hollywood dvd.
And all I could think of was the monster who just a day before killed 15 of them just to get some Americans handing out candy.
I do not believe I have common ground with somebody like that. And of the two of us, I'll wager that he was more the racist than I could ever be.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 4:27pm
Until we see ourselves in those who look different than us, in those who worship in a different manner, and in those who think differently than we do, we will always attempt to exalt ourselves over others, and this is the source of racism and oppression.
Posted by Metteyya at 09/17/2009 @ 4:13pm
Lord knows I've tried to look for common ground. There was a day back in 2005 when my platoon was constructing a traffic control checkpoint a few miles south of the al Dora refinery. The day before that, another group of Americans was handing out candy and soccer balls (real popular gift, those), when a terrorist aimed his vbied (vehicle borne improvised explosive device) at the humvees then crowded over with eager, smiling Iraqi children. I think about 15 kids died in that blast. The next day, there I was, surrounded by a bunch of Iraqi kids looking for handouts, trying to sell us sodas, or just eager to get a look at these outlandish men seemingly straight out of a Hollywood dvd.
And all I could think of was the monster who just a day before killed 15 of them just to get some Americans handing out candy.
I do not believe I have common ground with somebody like that. And of the two of us, I'll wager that he was more the racist than I could ever be.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 4:27pm
unwilling to converse in any meaningful way. Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 3:05pm
You assume you yourself do? I find that humorous in it's flagrant dishonesty.
BTW here's another corrected quote: "You lie, boy!" http://tinyurl.com/lxgn4n
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 3:59pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--your conclusion of "flagrant dishonesty" is a joke.
but not surprising from someone who claims joe wilson said "you lie, negro"
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 4:32pm
Still not committing to define or explain to me my racism, hsu?
Really, give it a shot. Maybe I'll have an epiphany. A Frank Capra-esque moment of perfect moral clarity and understanding. I'll be forced to write the words, "You know, I never looked at it that way."
Come on. A guy who uses the word "epiphany" probably has the vocabulary and reading comprehension to perfectly grasp what it is, I hope, that you are about to explain.
Or are you unwilling to teach? To proselytize? To convert and enlighten? For there appears to be a definition of racism that I am not familiar with and am apparently committing unknowingly.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 4:33pm
Still not committing to define or explain to me my racism, hsu?
Really, give it a shot. Maybe I'll have an epiphany. A Frank Capra-esque moment of perfect moral clarity and understanding. I'll be forced to write the words, "You know, I never looked at it that way."
Come on. A guy who uses the word "epiphany" probably has the vocabulary and reading comprehension to perfectly grasp what it is, I hope, that you are about to explain.
Or are you unwilling to teach? To proselytize? To convert and enlighten? For there appears to be a definition of racism that I am not familiar with and am apparently committing unknowingly.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 4:33pm
Still not committing to define or explain to me my racism, hsu?
Really, give it a shot. Maybe I'll have an epiphany. A Frank Capra-esque moment of perfect moral clarity and understanding. I'll be forced to write the words, "You know, I never looked at it that way."
Come on. A guy who uses the word "epiphany" probably has the vocabulary and reading comprehension to perfectly grasp what it is, I hope, that you are about to explain.
Or are you unwilling to teach? To proselytize? To convert and enlighten? For there appears to be a definition of racism that I am not familiar with and am apparently committing unknowingly.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 4:33pm
anti--
"AMA, though, reported in its 2008 update that BCBS of Alabama had an 89 percent share of the state's combined product market for HMOs and PPOs."
http://tinyurl.com/n5gx8r
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 4:34pm
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 4:33pm
Why not answer my question first?
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 4:40pm
anti-- "AMA, though, reported in its 2008 update that BCBS of Alabama had an 89 percent share of the state's combined product market for HMOs and PPOs." http://tinyurl.com/n5gx8r Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 4:34pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--...says he who claims Joe Wilson shouted "you lie, negro"
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 4:40pm
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 4:27pm
He wants to kill you because you - or someone who looks like you - killed his family. The question is not whether he is a racist or more racist than you, it is why are you in his country? Are you there to hand out soccer balls and candy or to help some American company steal oil as he suspects?
The Iraq war was an immoral war, and it is unfortunate that you allowed yourself to be used as a pawn in this effort. You were lied to concerning our reasons for being there, and he wants to kill you because he understands the REAL reason for your invasion.
The solution is to end these crazy wars that have very little chance of helping anyone, except for the very narrow corporate interests that sponsored the war.
Just like it is immoral to take your neighbors possessions by force, it is also immoral to invade another country to take their natural resources. Handing out soccer balls and candy doesn't change this basic fact.
Posted by Metteyya at 09/17/2009 @ 4:45pm
--...says he who claims Joe Wilson shouted "you lie, negro" Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 4:40pm
From an apologist for new con repub extremists.
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 4:47pm
"AMA, though, reported in its 2008 update that BCBS of Alabama had an 89 percent share of the state's combined product market for HMOs and PPOs."
http://tinyurl.com/n5gx8r
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 4:34pm
It doesn't make the AMA right.
Nor does it change the president's false assertion that the dominance allows BCBS to overcharge and cherry pick.
Certainly the figures I cited show that their profit levels are almost nonexistent.
<A representative of the company indicated that its "profit" averaged only 0.6% of premiums the past decade, and that its administrative expense ratio is 7% of premiums, the fourth lowest among 39 Blue Cross and Blue Shield plans nationwide.
Similarly, a Dec. 31, 2007, report by the Alabama Department of Insurance indicates that the insurer's ratio of medical-claim costs to premiums for the year was 92%, with an administrative expense ratio (including claims settlement expenses) of 7.5%. Its net income, including investment income, was equivalent to 2% of premiums in that year. >
Posted by antisocialist at 09/17/2009 @ 4:48pm
--...says he who claims Joe Wilson shouted "you lie, negro" Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 4:40pm
From an apologist for new con repub extremists. Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 4:47pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--like President Obama...since we're still in Iraq and Afghanistan, Gitmo's still open, and rendition still happens...
Posted by urmygyro at 09/17/2009 @ 4:48pm
I had my own "epiphany" painting a door earlier....
How it came about was coming home from lunch, hearing Rush opine that the whole Racism card `game' was orchestrated from the WH, Rahm Emmanuel was mentioned.
See how this plays:
1) Afghanistan is reaching a decision point soon....the need for more troops have been in the news for weeks and the events there, including 6 Italians dying today, is pretty grim.
2) Not getting healthcare, CapandDie, etc. passed can be blamed on Congress and the Repubs.
3) War and Peace decisions lie at the feet of the CIC. The buck stops there and on that, bi-partisanship is till alive and well. We know the hardest decision for any CIC is to send men into battle...and this decision is even harder on BHO despite his expressly wanting to wage this `Good War' in lieu of the Iraq War.
4) By deploying the Racism card now, under the ruse of attacking those who oppose Magic's domestic priorities, the WH has bought itself some time....time to shield itself from the rabid anti-War Left.
5) When Obama announce a large troop build-up in Afghanistan, soon......few will dare to portest, especially from the Far Left....who will be labeled, RACISTS, by a lot of us.
This maybe one of the best political survival move of this learning-on-the-fly admin.......The anti-War Left is now trapped by the WH and its media collarborators like Dowd, Robinson, Carter, Matthews.....who must raise Racism to a high pitch as prep for the most difficult decision of Empty Suit's tattered Presidency,,,for he knows, his most vehement opposition isn't from the Right....it would be the Racists on the Left....:~)
Posted by Happy at 09/17/2009 @ 4:59pm
Posted by Metteyya at 09/17/2009 @ 4:45pm
"You were lied to concerning our reasons for being there, and he wants to kill you because he understands the REAL reason for your invasion."
Actually, I never paid attention much to the multiple reasons given for Saddam's overthrow. I always considered it to be merely a resumption of hostilities in recognition of Saddam's recalcitrance. He lost a war that he started. When that happens, you have to eat a big fecal sandwich as an act of contrition to demonstrate your willingness to rejoin the community of nations as a member in good standing...rather than one who invades a neighbor just because they were calling in the loans they made to you. He didn't eat the sandwich. Instead, he cheated his own people out of food and medicine money through oil sales so he could build more palaces. I saw the palaces...
"Are you there to hand out soccer balls and candy or to help some American company steal oil as he suspects?"
The Iraq Oil Ministry assumed control over the production and sale of Iraqi oil in either 2003 or 2004, if memory serves. He may suspect we are "stealing oil", but it is a suspicion born of lies and hence, not worthy of consideration.
And had people like him refrained from murdering their Sunni or Shia countrymen or attempted to topple the democratically elected government, there would've been no reason for us to linger there. The Iraqi government would've asked us to leave, which Bush pointed out was all they ever had to do.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 5:03pm
Posted by Metteyya at 09/17/2009 @ 4:45pm
"You were lied to concerning our reasons for being there, and he wants to kill you because he understands the REAL reason for your invasion."
Actually, I never paid attention much to the multiple reasons given for Saddam's overthrow. I always considered it to be merely a resumption of hostilities in recognition of Saddam's recalcitrance. He lost a war that he started. When that happens, you have to eat a big fecal sandwich as an act of contrition to demonstrate your willingness to rejoin the community of nations as a member in good standing...rather than one who invades a neighbor just because they were calling in the loans they made to you. He didn't eat the sandwich. Instead, he cheated his own people out of food and medicine money through oil sales so he could build more palaces. I saw the palaces...
"Are you there to hand out soccer balls and candy or to help some American company steal oil as he suspects?"
The Iraq Oil Ministry assumed control over the production and sale of Iraqi oil in either 2003 or 2004, if memory serves. He may suspect we are "stealing oil", but it is a suspicion born of lies and hence, not worthy of consideration.
And had people like him refrained from murdering their Sunni or Shia countrymen or attempted to topple the democratically elected government, there would've been no reason for us to linger there. The Iraqi government would've asked us to leave, which Bush pointed out was all they ever had to do.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 5:04pm
Posted by Metteyya at 09/17/2009 @ 4:45pm
"You were lied to concerning our reasons for being there, and he wants to kill you because he understands the REAL reason for your invasion."
Actually, I never paid attention much to the multiple reasons given for Saddam's overthrow. I always considered it to be merely a resumption of hostilities in recognition of Saddam's recalcitrance. He lost a war that he started. When that happens, you have to eat a big fecal sandwich as an act of contrition to demonstrate your willingness to rejoin the community of nations as a member in good standing...rather than one who invades a neighbor just because they were calling in the loans they made to you. He didn't eat the sandwich. Instead, he cheated his own people out of food and medicine money through oil sales so he could build more palaces. I saw the palaces...
"Are you there to hand out soccer balls and candy or to help some American company steal oil as he suspects?"
The Iraq Oil Ministry assumed control over the production and sale of Iraqi oil in either 2003 or 2004, if memory serves. He may suspect we are "stealing oil", but it is a suspicion born of lies and hence, not worthy of consideration.
And had people like him refrained from murdering their Sunni or Shia countrymen or attempted to topple the democratically elected government, there would've been no reason for us to linger there. The Iraqi government would've asked us to leave, which Bush pointed out was all they ever had to do.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 5:04pm
"AMA, though, reported in its 2008 update that BCBS of Alabama had an 89 percent share of the state's combined product market for HMOs and PPOs." http://tinyurl.com/n5gx8r Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 4:34pm It doesn't make the AMA right. Nor does it change the president's false assertion that the dominance allows BCBS to overcharge and cherry pick.
It does prove Obama had a source he was quoting forthe 90% and not making it up.
Also, do you have BCBS?
I know for a fact that they cherry pick what's covered and delay reimbursements for sometimes over a year. And it goes up every year as there's none cheaper to compete with it.
Doesn't more competition help!?!?
Just because there's public schools, it doesn't put the private schools out of business. May even keep their cost down some... anyway.
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 5:16pm
Okay, hsu, I will if you will.
What makes you think I was ever in favor of cutting VA disability? Heck, I'm going to be eligible for that when I retire.
The assumption is that as a "new con repub", I automatically closed ranks with Bush on every decision, because Party comes before country. That is inaccurate. I agreed with him on the things I agreed with. When I disagreed, I disagreed. I voted for him, twice, because I found I agreed with Bush moreso than I did Gore or Kerry.
"And even then it's because it's going to the poorest of us."
I strongly suspect that many of the "45 million" are youngish people, relatively well off, who are spending their money on things other than health insurance. Not all, certainly, but to categorize them all as "the poorest of us" is inaccurate.
"What shear excessively obvious bias to the Nth degree if not only it's flagrantly racist motivation-- it's hatred of or poor."
Again, you are declaring rather than explaining or illuminating. Pretend for a moment that it is not obvious. It is not excessively obvious I am racist because I oppose something I do not believe our government has the Constitutional authority to do. I am not racist because I don't believe adding an almost trillion dollar program to spending is going to be "budget neutral". I am not racist because I suspect a "public option" was a stepping stone to single-payer.
I am not racist because I object to Congress passing a bill as thick as the Cincinnati telephone book when it is obvious nobody has read it. Nor am I racist because I've watch government grow under Bush and Obama and I'm thinking enough is enough.
Now, please, in the simplest, most easily undestandable terms, spell out EXACTLY how these things DO make me a racist?
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 5:19pm
Okay, hsu, I will if you will.
What makes you think I was ever in favor of cutting VA disability? Heck, I'm going to be eligible for that when I retire.
The assumption is that as a "new con repub", I automatically closed ranks with Bush on every decision, because Party comes before country. That is inaccurate. I agreed with him on the things I agreed with. When I disagreed, I disagreed. I voted for him, twice, because I found I agreed with Bush moreso than I did Gore or Kerry.
"And even then it's because it's going to the poorest of us."
I strongly suspect that many of the "45 million" are youngish people, relatively well off, who are spending their money on things other than health insurance. Not all, certainly, but to categorize them all as "the poorest of us" is inaccurate.
"What shear excessively obvious bias to the Nth degree if not only it's flagrantly racist motivation-- it's hatred of or poor."
Again, you are declaring rather than explaining or illuminating. Pretend for a moment that it is not obvious. It is not excessively obvious I am racist because I oppose something I do not believe our government has the Constitutional authority to do. I am not racist because I don't believe adding an almost trillion dollar program to spending is going to be "budget neutral". I am not racist because I suspect a "public option" was a stepping stone to single-payer.
I am not racist because I object to Congress passing a bill as thick as the Cincinnati telephone book when it is obvious nobody has read it. Nor am I racist because I've watch government grow under Bush and Obama and I'm thinking enough is enough.
Now, please, in the simplest, most easily undestandable terms, spell out EXACTLY how these things DO make me a racist?
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 5:19pm
Okay, hsu, I will if you will.
What makes you think I was ever in favor of cutting VA disability? Heck, I'm going to be eligible for that when I retire.
The assumption is that as a "new con repub", I automatically closed ranks with Bush on every decision, because Party comes before country. That is inaccurate. I agreed with him on the things I agreed with. When I disagreed, I disagreed. I voted for him, twice, because I found I agreed with Bush moreso than I did Gore or Kerry.
"And even then it's because it's going to the poorest of us."
I strongly suspect that many of the "45 million" are youngish people, relatively well off, who are spending their money on things other than health insurance. Not all, certainly, but to categorize them all as "the poorest of us" is inaccurate.
"What shear excessively obvious bias to the Nth degree if not only it's flagrantly racist motivation-- it's hatred of or poor."
Again, you are declaring rather than explaining or illuminating. Pretend for a moment that it is not obvious. It is not excessively obvious I am racist because I oppose something I do not believe our government has the Constitutional authority to do. I am not racist because I don't believe adding an almost trillion dollar program to spending is going to be "budget neutral". I am not racist because I suspect a "public option" was a stepping stone to single-payer.
I am not racist because I object to Congress passing a bill as thick as the Cincinnati telephone book when it is obvious nobody has read it. Nor am I racist because I've watch government grow under Bush and Obama and I'm thinking enough is enough.
Now, please, in the simplest, most easily undestandable terms, spell out EXACTLY how these things DO make me a racist?
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 5:19pm
"I do not believe I have common ground with somebody like that. And of the two of us, I'll wager that he was more the racist than I could ever be."
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 4:27pm
"He wants to kill you because you - or someone who looks like you - killed his family. The question is not whether he is a racist or more racist than you, it is why are you in his country? Are you there to hand out soccer balls and candy or to help some American company steal oil as he suspects?"
Posted by Metteyya at 09/17/2009 @ 4:45pm
I watched in "shock and awe" at the sheer number and size of the bombs used the first several days of the invasion of Iraq. I kept wondering how I would feel if I lived in that city.
I's suggest watching the movie "3 Kings", and paying close attention to the torture scene.
"What's up with Michael Jackson, my man?"
Posted by FLaim at 09/17/2009 @ 5:30pm
I'll check back tomorrow morning for any reply. It's late, I'm hungry, I'm thinking it's time to call in General Tso for some maneuvers.
But here's what I gather so far.
I'm racist because I'm opposing something that would benefit the poor. In this context, "the poor" are not white Appalachin caucasians or crawdad-eating cajuns, but black, urban Americans.
Even though there are far more poor white people in America who cannot blame "institutionalized racism" on their condition. No, they are poor for more mundane reasons. You know, like not taking an interest in schoolwork, or drugs, alcoholism, laziness, or complaceny with one's station in life. Or, in most cases, rotten parents who were themselves raised by rotten parents.
So in this warped, bizarre context, I'm racist. I may state economic, constitutional, or politically ideological reasons for opposing nationalization of 7% of the GDP, but the unspoken, yet "excessively obvious" reason is because I derive pleasure and satisfaction from seeing poor people suffer. Not white people, but the stereotypical poor black person, even though both groups will suffer.
If you truly believe that the core of this opposition stems from this...misanthropy...then I wonder if any meaningful debate is possible. How do you debate somebody who believes you to be a succubus or vampire? A devourer of misery like a "Dementor" from a Harry Potter novel?
Is it possible I oppose big government solutions simply because I have no faith in the humanity or efficiency of big government? I suppose it isn't. It must be because keeping poor people in misery is somehow in my best interest.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 5:38pm
I'll check back tomorrow morning for any reply. It's late, I'm hungry, I'm thinking it's time to call in General Tso for some maneuvers.
But here's what I gather so far.
I'm racist because I'm opposing something that would benefit the poor. In this context, "the poor" are not white Appalachin caucasians or crawdad-eating cajuns, but black, urban Americans.
Even though there are far more poor white people in America who cannot blame "institutionalized racism" on their condition. No, they are poor for more mundane reasons. You know, like not taking an interest in schoolwork, or drugs, alcoholism, laziness, or complaceny with one's station in life. Or, in most cases, rotten parents who were themselves raised by rotten parents.
So in this warped, bizarre context, I'm racist. I may state economic, constitutional, or politically ideological reasons for opposing nationalization of 7% of the GDP, but the unspoken, yet "excessively obvious" reason is because I derive pleasure and satisfaction from seeing poor people suffer. Not white people, but the stereotypical poor black person, even though both groups will suffer.
If you truly believe that the core of this opposition stems from this...misanthropy...then I wonder if any meaningful debate is possible. How do you debate somebody who believes you to be a succubus or vampire? A devourer of misery like a "Dementor" from a Harry Potter novel?
Is it possible I oppose big government solutions simply because I have no faith in the humanity or efficiency of big government? I suppose it isn't. It must be because keeping poor people in misery is somehow in my best interest.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 5:38pm
I'll check back tomorrow morning for any reply. It's late, I'm hungry, I'm thinking it's time to call in General Tso for some maneuvers.
But here's what I gather so far.
I'm racist because I'm opposing something that would benefit the poor. In this context, "the poor" are not white Appalachin caucasians or crawdad-eating cajuns, but black, urban Americans.
Even though there are far more poor white people in America who cannot blame "institutionalized racism" on their condition. No, they are poor for more mundane reasons. You know, like not taking an interest in schoolwork, or drugs, alcoholism, laziness, or complaceny with one's station in life. Or, in most cases, rotten parents who were themselves raised by rotten parents.
So in this warped, bizarre context, I'm racist. I may state economic, constitutional, or politically ideological reasons for opposing nationalization of 7% of the GDP, but the unspoken, yet "excessively obvious" reason is because I derive pleasure and satisfaction from seeing poor people suffer. Not white people, but the stereotypical poor black person, even though both groups will suffer.
If you truly believe that the core of this opposition stems from this...misanthropy...then I wonder if any meaningful debate is possible. How do you debate somebody who believes you to be a succubus or vampire? A devourer of misery like a "Dementor" from a Harry Potter novel?
Is it possible I oppose big government solutions simply because I have no faith in the humanity or efficiency of big government? I suppose it isn't. It must be because keeping poor people in misery is somehow in my best interest.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 5:38pm
I's suggest watching the movie "3 Kings", and paying close attention to the torture scene.
Okay, a bit more before I go. I really cared, and do care, about the plight of your average Iraqi. I would like them to have something like the life we do. Government of laws, not men. Good economy, jobs. Liberty. They were never going to have any of this with Saddam, who killed hundreds of thousands of his own people without remorse.
The guy with the car bomb was not your average Iraqi. He was a fanatic willing to kill himself and 15 innocent children. He did not do that by accident. He saw those kids and specifically targetted them for death. We do not set out to do this. Yes, it happens in war, but we do not plan our attacks that way. Nor do we use women or children as shields to hide behind. Men like that do. Hence, I do not consider them to be truly men.
You know, we had two Iraqi brothers running our Class IV yard crane in Camp Liberty. They risked their lives to simply come in each day and help put concrete blast barriers on our flatbeds so we could go out to build checkpoints that saved Iraqi lives. You know, most of what our families and church group sent us as "care packages" ended up in the trunk of their car at least once a week. Along with bottled water by the case, and toys and toothbrushes for their kids.
And this was not an act of calculation. We did it because this is the way American people are.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 5:49pm
I's suggest watching the movie "3 Kings", and paying close attention to the torture scene.
Okay, a bit more before I go. I really cared, and do care, about the plight of your average Iraqi. I would like them to have something like the life we do. Government of laws, not men. Good economy, jobs. Liberty. They were never going to have any of this with Saddam, who killed hundreds of thousands of his own people without remorse.
The guy with the car bomb was not your average Iraqi. He was a fanatic willing to kill himself and 15 innocent children. He did not do that by accident. He saw those kids and specifically targetted them for death. We do not set out to do this. Yes, it happens in war, but we do not plan our attacks that way. Nor do we use women or children as shields to hide behind. Men like that do. Hence, I do not consider them to be truly men.
You know, we had two Iraqi brothers running our Class IV yard crane in Camp Liberty. They risked their lives to simply come in each day and help put concrete blast barriers on our flatbeds so we could go out to build checkpoints that saved Iraqi lives. You know, most of what our families and church group sent us as "care packages" ended up in the trunk of their car at least once a week. Along with bottled water by the case, and toys and toothbrushes for their kids.
And this was not an act of calculation. We did it because this is the way American people are.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 5:50pm
I's suggest watching the movie "3 Kings", and paying close attention to the torture scene.
Okay, a bit more before I go. I really cared, and do care, about the plight of your average Iraqi. I would like them to have something like the life we do. Government of laws, not men. Good economy, jobs. Liberty. They were never going to have any of this with Saddam, who killed hundreds of thousands of his own people without remorse.
The guy with the car bomb was not your average Iraqi. He was a fanatic willing to kill himself and 15 innocent children. He did not do that by accident. He saw those kids and specifically targetted them for death. We do not set out to do this. Yes, it happens in war, but we do not plan our attacks that way. Nor do we use women or children as shields to hide behind. Men like that do. Hence, I do not consider them to be truly men.
You know, we had two Iraqi brothers running our Class IV yard crane in Camp Liberty. They risked their lives to simply come in each day and help put concrete blast barriers on our flatbeds so we could go out to build checkpoints that saved Iraqi lives. You know, most of what our families and church group sent us as "care packages" ended up in the trunk of their car at least once a week. Along with bottled water by the case, and toys and toothbrushes for their kids.
And this was not an act of calculation. We did it because this is the way American people are.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 5:50pm
CC--
If you were an empty vessel-- sure, but from your very answers you are already devaluing facts that would conclude the existence of prejudice to another.
Or are you really asking instead how to recognize or instill value in facts that show harm being done to another?
If you already recognize those facts, but have long ago decided not to care, then are you really asking how is it that you regain your heart?
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 5:56pm
You know citizen_carrier, you write that you want the iraqis to have a better life, govt of laws, jobs , liberty, well I would like that for the iraqis and the down trodden of our own country too. There are a lot of poor people who aren't addicts or come from bad neighbor hoods or didn't attend some school, and they still can't get out of the rut they are in and may need help with HC, you'll help the iraqis get HC, but not Americans? What is wrong with this picture? Where were you when Bush was spending us into oblivian, Money that could of helped us here? Do you see where I'm going here?
Posted by Denise29 at 09/17/2009 @ 6:01pm
"The guy with the car bomb was not your average Iraqi. He was a fanatic willing to kill himself and 15 innocent children."
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/17/2009 @ 5:50pm
Overlooking the "foreign fighters" from Libya and others countries that paid to be suicide bombers in Iraq, how do you know he was not an average Iraqi before we used 500+ cruise missiles? How do you know that he didn't watch his family be dismembered by shrapnel? Watch the business that had been his livelihood reduced to rubble?
I often wonder just how fanatic I might become myself in that circumstance.
Posted by FLaim at 09/17/2009 @ 6:33pm
Is there anyone out there who sees racism as a FACTOR and not the SOLE REASON for the opposition to Obama?? The way I see it, progressives are not trying to blame racism for everything - of course not. But they are trying to get a discussion going. Many of these attempts will necessarily be clumsy ones. That's because we ALL have racism within us in different forms (whether internalized or externalized or both), not just Joe Wilson. Until we can face that, and until we make a commitment to talking about it constructively, it will continue to run rampant in our psyches. The first step of transforming racism is awareness that it's there. Then we can be vigilant about it. It's when we refuse to acknowledge something that it gains more power over us, indeed, controls us.
Posted by SarahMills at 09/17/2009 @ 6:36pm
Denise, one cannot be equated with the other. We also rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII. I think, and I don't mean this as an insult, that you and others here like Mett and hsuBfools, come up a little short in your knoledge of history, especially of ME history.
I've said that I thought that the invasion of Iraq was overkill. However it wasn't Bush's decision alone. He wasn't smart enough to pull it off without the help of people like Paul Wolfowitz and his New World Order which came about as a result of the U.S. as the last standing super power. Wolfie and the neocons vision of the world was one where foreign countries, including some of our allies began to resent us because we had such awesome military power. After Gulf War I, the powers to be, mainly left over from the Bush I administration, decided that they would have there way in shaping policy around the world, even if pre-emption had to be used. It later was in Iraq.
My point is that it is not as simple as saying Bush lied and people died. It was never about WMD. Bush was not an articulate leader. Democrats and the leftist media began to call him 'Liar In Chief.' Remember that one?
I understand Citizen_Carrier completely when he says that he can find no common ground with the type of evil he saw first hand. America has the resources to give some kids in Iraq a little HC and some candy. Our children in America will never know poverty like it exists in some of these countries.
Conservatives are only trying to get Washington to be RESPONSIBLE with their money and to stop spending it on people who would defraud the hand that feeds them. Iraqi women never had eight or nine babies to get more welfare money like our own American women did. Hell they wouldn't even want to give life there.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/17/2009 @ 6:44pm
Mask,
You claim to want to be able to "........distinguish between the racists and the "principled opposition"......"
1. I maintain that many of you on the left do not want to do that.
2. Why do you assume you need to do that anyway, if you are really being honest about what you ask? I am certainly aware of the existence of racism in this country, but racism involves prejudice, and to dissect that word it means "pre-judging someone". Prejudice is wrong. And in this case, your feeling the need to have to distinguish the racists and the "principled opposition" means you are pre-judging the situation and assuming that a large component or significant component of opposition is racist, or that someone who expresses opposition to Obama policy may well or could be racist.
You are guilty of engaging in prejudice.
3. The appropriate reaction would be that you would not consider racism as a component in opposition to Obama agenda. You would take the opposition at face value that it is because of disagreement with the agenda.
4. It seems that people who are overtly racist make it somewhat obvious in how they speak, comport themselves, what sign or insignia they may carry, especially at a venue such as a protest. You would not need to distinguish them, they would make it obvious.
5. We supposedly live in a color blind society that has moved to equality, and what that means is that if we are truly an equal society then people who may oppose policy that is proposed by an officeholder that happens to be Black should not have to hold back on speaking their mind because they would be accused of racism. That is as wrong as the original racism.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 7:07pm
Bill Cosby has stated that he agrees with Jimmy Carter that opposition to Barack Obama is racist based. I'm shocked. Really.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/17/2009 @ 7:42pm
I read all of these posts and love the intelligence, cleverness, political insight and humor that most of you folks use to either attempt to convince or humiliate your peers and also to gently insult and insinuate that your opponents are not up to your level of the above-mentioned traits. I am sure that no one here makes any great dents in the others' armor but it is entertaining to watch. I just don't understand the motivations behind the regular commenters who appear here on a mostly daily basis. Are you paid for this or in some way is it part of your jobs? Don't you get tired of arguing with the same people every day? Or is this your way of blowing off steam (seeing that most of us don't have mules to beat anymore)? I'm relatively new to this and don't speak much on here - the old adage of it being better to stay quiet and be thought a fool and opening my mouth and removing all doubt - so I haven't seen how you all would react to say a national disaster (Katrina or 9-11). (And no, Happy, the 08 election was not in that category). con't
Posted by vaguelyinterested at 09/17/2009 @ 9:11pm
....Until we can face that, and until we make a commitment to talking about it constructively, it will continue to run rampant in our psyches. The first step of transforming racism is awareness that it's there. Then we can be vigilant about it. It's when we refuse to acknowledge something that it gains more power over us, indeed, controls us.
Posted by SarahMills at 09/17/2009 @ 6:36pm
Frankly, talking about it "constructively" means squat!
For folks opposed to Magic, whether RACISM is the primary, partial, tangential or simply your PERCEIVED racism of such opponents, means nothing!
Take me for e.g.....Obama is still Magic, NOT as magical or teflonish as he was, but since 2/3 of Dems still think he walks on water, he is still pretty much, Magic. Whether you think/perceive/imagine I oppose him, be it primarily/partially/tangentially out of RACISM is irrelevant to me, and should be to you, since talking about it will not change my opposition.....is this clear and easy to understand?
Under the current political reality, the type of person that most can say with some certainty could be RACISTS would be those who have the same political ideology as Magic, is a Democrat, is non-black, is a man, supports the Afghan War and every one of his other platforms BUT NOT HIM as POTUS.
You poor saps! Your precious Dear Leader is now unpopular as he sheds his clothes and people see him for what he is, an incompetent blow-hard and a LIER!
Posted by Happy at 09/17/2009 @ 9:16pm
I do feel, however - not from the rhetoric here - but the overall political attitude of divisiveness in the country, the reasons Obama is indeed treated disrespectfully and with such vitriol is not just his policies. It appears people are getting bolder in their ways of showing animosity for the man. If it is respected men such as Wilson (in a very public way) or talking heads such as Limbaugh (with his Obama the magic negro) or Beck ( Obama hates white people- he's a racist) showing outward disrespect to the president it only emboldens those people who feel he does not (and never did) belong in office. I fear one or more may try to take their self-righteous feelings to an extreme end. I hope it does not lead to violence. But if it did I don't believe I would be entertained anymore by the arguments I would read here. There is no way to be glib then.
Posted by vaguelyinterested at 09/17/2009 @ 9:22pm
....Until we can face that, and until we make a commitment to talking about it constructively, it will continue to run rampant in our psyches. The first step of transforming racism is awareness that it's there. Then we can be vigilant about it. It's when we refuse to acknowledge something that it gains more power over us, indeed, controls us.
Posted by SarahMills at 09/17/2009 @ 6:36pm
I don't know. It's kind of like the alcoholics who have to stand up at an AA meeting and acknowledge that they are an alcoholic before they can get the cure. But once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. One little drink and...........
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/17/2009 @ 9:25pm
I don't understand why Joe has to lie about being a immigration attorney !
Posted by realpatriot at 09/17/2009 @ 9:32pm
Posted by vaguelyinterested at 09/17/2009 @ 9:22pm
There is no question I personally show a shit load less respect for Magic today than my pre-Bush `43 self. I believe I would treat Hillary (as POTUS) no differently except the Left would accuse me of......ta da....Sexism. Big Deal! I would prefer a man to be the POTUS and voted for BHO in my state's open Primary....in part due to my Sexism....again, Big Deal, it's a free country!
The reason there is a lot more disrespect shown the office of the Presidency, now occupied by the first half-and-half, is what the Dems/Libs/Left did during Bush 43's 8 years.
As I told KvH, I believe, you reap what you sow.....and what goes around, comes around.
The Left made Racism into a cottage industry with just one set of rules, your rules. You attack conservative non-whites with impunity since the Legacy Media are just as RACISTS as you are and let you get away with it.
Today, whether we sound RACIST or not, or even if some of us are actually RACISTS, frankly, I and I suspect many others, don't really much give a damn! We oppose your Messiah, period!
If you need to think the BIG reason is RACISM and that's the answer you like best, fine....I hope it does make you HAPPY!
Personally, I think BHO's intelligence is marginal, maybe above-average, and he is the penalty our country must pay for embracing Affirmative Action and not strictly on merit.
Posted by Happy at 09/17/2009 @ 9:38pm
Posted by vaguelyinterested at 09/17/2009 @ 9:11pm
I can only speak for myself. I know that nobody pays me. I am strongly independent and having been around for awhile, strongly opinionated. I don't pretend to be an expert on anything and I don't try to change anyone's mind. I enjoy interacting with most who post here. Most have the spare time to chat here. I really don't care if they're paid or not.
I hope that everyone who posts here is as strongly committed to their viewpoints as I am. All I ask is to remain civil and be able to back up your point of view with something besides what you may have heard on some news byte. If someone says something kooky, it's ok to point that out but in the end everyone is entitled to their own opinion. That's what makes debate so enjoyable......and worthwhile.
You may be vaguely interested but at least you're thinking.
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/17/2009 @ 9:52pm
Sure... http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/limbaugh.asp Posted by Mask at 09/17/2009 @ 1:13pm
Like I thought. No transcript, no recording.
"Nearly all the information available on this subject is anecdotal, with no documentation and no specifics mentioned other than that the ALLEGED quote was something Limbaugh "once said" or uttered "as a young broadcaster in the 1970s."
You'll have to do better than that, Mask.
Posted by twillie at 09/17/2009 @ 10:13pm
Civility is the key to conversation .I admit to getting hot under the collar many times when I read the assorted viewpoints that are expressed here. It's interesting to see Bill OReilly supported the public option on his show. Of course on a more pertinent note,Rush said we should have segregated busing for students. How does this guy get a free pass. This windbag is really a pot stirrer. I'm not surprised President Carter said what he did. As a lifelong resident of the South he is just "reporting" on what he sees and feels around him. People think his timing was bad. I think he was just advising both political; parties to be cautious in their use of rhetoric.
Posted by whatizz at 09/17/2009 @ 10:55pm
America is not racist. But a lot of Americans are. Even with the election of an African American to the highest office in the land, it is unrealistic to expect that every vestige of racial prejudice would disappear when we are only a few short generations from the time of Jim Crow and legal segregation. But what we can expect -- and must demand -- is that racial prejudice, even that expressed semi-cryptically as "wanting the country back", does not gain political power. Certainly not all opposition to Obama is racially based, but much of it is now in the confederate style.
The problem for the nation is that these retrograde emotions are being fanned by the Calhoun conservatism which has ascended on the right since the defeat of Bush and the neocons. Calhoun conservatism refers to John C. Calhoun Calhoun pre-Civil War South Carolina politician who fused a particularly extreme view of states' rights with a patriarchal and violent conservatism in defense of slavery.
Read Mike Lux's article on Calhoun conservatism and what is behind this closet KKK movement at:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-lux/calhoun- conservatism-rais_b_283480.html
Prejudiced idiots are not limited to Dixieland, or course. There are those in the North and everywhere else in the land with a Southern heart & temperament. But even massed all together, the tea-baggers, and their amen choir, are not a serious threat to America -- unless they find a vitriolic, organized and equally idiotic leadership. We must stop the modern day John C. Calhouns (before we have to face a modern day Jefferson Davis). These Neo-Confederate Republican politicians and the radio & cable rodeo clowns must be called out for what they are.
Racists. Un-American. Shameful. Unacceptable.
Posted by dont_know at 09/17/2009 @ 11:18pm
"I am certainly aware of the existence of racism in this country...
We supposedly live in a color blind society that has moved to equality..."
Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 7:07pm
Whoa. I feel like Dilbert in one of those cartoon panels where his head explodes. Racism is nothing more than ignorance. Race is a social construct, largely created to justify slavery and exploitation, whether used by Arabs, Africans, Europeans or Native Americans.
A simple question: Why is the number of black men in prison so disproportionate to the percentage in the general population? And I'd ask that no one knee-jerk, but really think about it or do some research before responding.
Thanks.
Posted by FLaim at 09/18/2009 @ 12:07am
Posted by Happy at 09/17/2009 @ 9:38pm |
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/17/2009 @ 9:52pm
My thanks to both Happy and gunslinger for their input and opinions to my questions.
Posted by vaguelyinterested at 09/18/2009 @ 12:28am
Opinions are important and are the groundwork from which agreements are formed for the rules of the society you live in. There is too much emotional rhetoric attached to the phrase "First Amendment Rights" A guarantee of free speech should not be confused with the right of expounding lengthy misinformation. My opinions can have my own personal prejudices attached but my statements should be based on facts as I understand them. Please read Thomas Hobbes's book the Leviathan (1651). The preface is scary and spot-on about anyone's normal condition. This book on why we form ‘Social Contract's is the basis of Western Political thought and economic outcomes. You only need to read the preface and the first ten pages of chapter one to glean Thomas Hobbes's intent.
Posted by Sloot2070 at 09/18/2009 @ 05:45am
Hsu, it appears that I am guilty of the sin of thinking about things other than merely the intentions of the healthcare plan.
Since the Great Society, it is bad taste to do this. You're not supposed to consider the possible economic fallout, governmental slipperly slopes, constitutional issues, and unintended (or secretly "intended") consequences of the government assuming more and more of a role in our day to day lives.
Nope. If the intention is that it helps poor people, then that is the only consideration to be made.
And it occurred to me that if I shared the view that the "pie" is "finite", then one might actually be able to make the tenuous connection to opposing this and the greed of trying to maintain my piece of the pie.
But that connection cannot be applied to somebody who knows the pie is infinite. Our patent office alone stands in mute testament against that argument. Furthermore, if the pie was finite, America would be worth the same dollar amount now as it was in 1972, for it would not be possible for new things of wealth, things of value, to be created.
I do not lack a heart, but I will never sacrifice a working, rational brain for it. When I see that there hasn't been ANY entitlement programs ran by the government that aren't heading for unsustainable bankruptcy, the head must govern and the heart must take a back seat.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/18/2009 @ 07:01am
Hsu, it appears that I am guilty of the sin of thinking about things other than merely the intentions of the healthcare plan.
Since the Great Society, it is bad taste to do this. You're not supposed to consider the possible economic fallout, governmental slipperly slopes, constitutional issues, and unintended (or secretly "intended") consequences of the government assuming more and more of a role in our day to day lives.
Nope. If the intention is that it helps poor people, then that is the only consideration to be made.
And it occurred to me that if I shared the view that the "pie" is "finite", then one might actually be able to make the tenuous connection to opposing this and the greed of trying to maintain my piece of the pie.
But that connection cannot be applied to somebody who knows the pie is infinite. Our patent office alone stands in mute testament against that argument. Furthermore, if the pie was finite, America would be worth the same dollar amount now as it was in 1972, for it would not be possible for new things of wealth, things of value, to be created.
I do not lack a heart, but I will never sacrifice a working, rational brain for it. When I see that there hasn't been ANY entitlement programs ran by the government that aren't heading for unsustainable bankruptcy, the head must govern and the heart must take a back seat.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/18/2009 @ 07:01am
Hsu, it appears that I am guilty of the sin of thinking about things other than merely the intentions of the healthcare plan.
Since the Great Society, it is bad taste to do this. You're not supposed to consider the possible economic fallout, governmental slipperly slopes, constitutional issues, and unintended (or secretly "intended") consequences of the government assuming more and more of a role in our day to day lives.
Nope. If the intention is that it helps poor people, then that is the only consideration to be made.
And it occurred to me that if I shared the view that the "pie" is "finite", then one might actually be able to make the tenuous connection to opposing this and the greed of trying to maintain my piece of the pie.
But that connection cannot be applied to somebody who knows the pie is infinite. Our patent office alone stands in mute testament against that argument. Furthermore, if the pie was finite, America would be worth the same dollar amount now as it was in 1972, for it would not be possible for new things of wealth, things of value, to be created.
I do not lack a heart, but I will never sacrifice a working, rational brain for it. When I see that there hasn't been ANY entitlement programs ran by the government that aren't heading for unsustainable bankruptcy, the head must govern and the heart must take a back seat.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/18/2009 @ 07:01am
Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 7:07pm
I maintain that conservatives struck a "pact with the Devil" with their racist element, from the day Ronald Reagan made his first post-Convention speech in Philadelphia, Mississippi and spoke, not on the slain civil rights workers...but on "states' rights."
And to today, one of your ideological mentors...a certain AM radio talk show host, is a guy who once told a black caller "Take that bone out of your nose and call me back!"
And the fact you won't come up with a way for us to distinquish between the "principled conservatives" who oppose Obama....and the racists who oppose Obama is because...
EVEN YOU can't distinquish them and your indignant that we're mentioning it too....i.e. "playing the race card."
Posted by Mask at 09/18/2009 @ 07:21am
Mask: "And to today, one of your ideological mentors...a certain AM radio talk show host, is a guy who once told a black caller "Take that bone out of your nose and call me back!""
--you can mention your owner by name...
Mask: "And the fact you won't come up with a way for us to distinquish between the "principled conservatives" who oppose Obama....and the racists who oppose Obama is because...EVEN YOU can't distinquish them and your indignant that we're mentioning it too....i.e. "playing the race card.""
--so Mask is saying that there are no "principled conservatives" and that actually anyone who opposes Obama is a racist...see how he does that? He tries to make ALL opposition to Obama=racism.
what. a. joke.
Posted by urmygyro at 09/18/2009 @ 07:51am
How does one teach fish they're wet? Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 2:41pm Do you like fish sticks? Posted by Mistral at 09/17/2009 @ 3:03pm
Do they stick in the mud?
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 3:45pm
"Fish sticks" refers to the Kanye West South Park episode.
Posted by Mistral at 09/18/2009 @ 08:07am
As a supporter of universal health care, I find this patently offensive, "identity politics" at its worst. This implies that any opposition to any of the policies of a minority president is racism, and is EXACTLY the kind of crap that stirs up those who might be on the conservative side of the fence.
Now, if Ms. Harris-Lacewell could take the time to point out how certain minority groups are bearing the brunt of the shortcomings of the current system, she might be on to something. But that would take a little more work than the Google searches that appear to have produced the research shown here.
Posted by Hypomaniac at 09/18/2009 @ 08:23am
No mention of Woodrow Wilson segregating the Federal government, or his implementation of a law making interracial marriage a felony in DC? His accepting of votes then in turn selling out of the black community was akin to Clinton actions with the gay community on Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
Posted by Wonk_and_Roll at 09/18/2009 @ 08:49am
Mask,
You have things backwards.
You demand a way to distinguish principled Conservatives from racists with regard to Obama opposition.
You forget that you on the left are the ones that created the automatic equation that Conservatism = racism.
This is total arrogance. The left has created this lie and myth that Obama opposition automatically is racist driven.....then the left essentially demands that Conservatives have to prove to a leftist that they are not racist.
Or, in your case, you want "guidance" how to determine who amongst Conservatives are not racist.
Essentially the left here has appointed themselves as the moral arbiter, the judge and jury before which people must prove themselves.
The left, of course, is pure as the driven snow with regard to matters of race, just as the left deems itself morally right with regard to economic matters, social matters, international relations, etc etc.
I know in your case you are many times being a pest with your questions, but many on the left behave the same way as you and in their cases they are not acting like Mask....they are living and breathing with leftist hubris and arrogance.
You know full well that leftist policy has harmed rather than helped Black America. Last week I posted a link to Dr. Walter E. Williams web site where he had a video series demonstrating this.
I could ask you questions how to distinguish people. If one were to go to the U.S. Senate, and go to the Democrat side of the aisle, how do you determine who there is racist?
I ask that question because in the Senate they wear business attire and not the attire that a Democrat Senator from West Virginia used to wear that involved a white sheet and hood.
Climb down off of Mt. Olympus, Mask.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/18/2009 @ 09:14am
The focus of discrimination today is increasingly away from race, onto class. The US displays unusual contempt for its poor. Consider that in the same era that we implicitly "OK" using billions of dollars for corporate tax relief and handouts for the rich, we hit our poor with welfare "reform". These policies are draconian to the degree of not only violating that celebrated Universal Declaration of Human Rights, but negates certain fundamental legal rights and protections for people on the basis of economic status. And even our progressive community remains apathetic. After all, we regard our poor as something different from the rest of us -- something less, for whom fundamental human rights don't really apply.
All economically-secure people, regardless of race, are treated with respect, and enjoy benefit of government. All poor, regardless of race, are regarded as guilty and inferior, and treated accordingly. This discrimination is so solidly established in our culture today that I don't think we even think about it.
Posted by DHFabian at 09/18/2009 @ 10:27am
The discrimination was clearly visible, after hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans.The administration virtually avoided "them" without providing the sufficient help.
Posted by Dastu11 at 09/18/2009 @ 10:44am
The discrimination was clearly visible, after hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans.The administration virtually avoided "them" without providing the sufficient help.
Posted by Dastu11 at 09/18/2009 @ 10:44am
You're full of shit!
Posted by Happy at 09/18/2009 @ 11:15am
Posted by sjchermak at 09/18/2009 @ 09:14am
Again, odd.
You are willing to remember what Robert Byrd did in the 1940s...and has apologized for ever since.
But are UNwilling to remember what Rush Limbaugh did in the 1970s (perhaps beyond)....and never apologized for.
Posted by Mask at 09/18/2009 @ 11:25am
But are UNwilling to remember what Rush Limbaugh did in the 1970s (perhaps beyond)....and never apologized for.
Posted by Mask at 09/18/2009 @ 11:25am
Rush & I are about the same age.....here's something to archive:
Back in the 1970s, in the company of many Georgians at Georgia Tech, I am sure I have said "niggers", "spics", "chinks", "Japs", "WASPs" lots of times and no one that heard these, gave a damn.
Oh, my father too!
Posted by Happy at 09/18/2009 @ 11:31am
A simple question: Why is the number of black men in prison so disproportionate to the percentage in the general population?
I haven't done any research as you asked (not time). Perhaps one of the other bloggers here has more info.
But, in my humble opinion, there is a timeline of racism in America that answers this question.
Colonial times to 1864 - Racial subjugation takes the form of slavery.
1865 - 1877 - Reconstruction period. Real hope for ending racial subjugation.
1877 - 1964 - Racial subjugation takes the form of Jim Crow laws, KKK terrorism, segregation.
1965 - Present - Racial subjugation continues as the so-called "War on Drugs" where a large number of black men are disproportionally sent to prison as compared to the general population. Massive amounts of drugs started coming into America the moment the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was signed. Nixon in 1969 official declared the War on Drugs.
That's my view anyway.
Posted by dont_know at 09/18/2009 @ 11:32am
MASK,
Urmy pegged you exactly right....wish it was me who came up with it first. Limbaugh owns you!
Posted by Happy at 09/18/2009 @ 11:32am
How does one teach fish they're wet? Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 2:41pm Do you like fish sticks? Posted by Mistral at 09/17/2009 @ 3:03pm Do they stick in the mud? Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 3:45pm "Fish sticks" refers to the Kanye West South Park episode. Posted by Mistral at 09/18/2009 @ 08:07am
So the fish do have mud, but it won't stick, because they don't know their already wet-- and they're Kanye West?
Is that just south of the ball park?
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/18/2009 @ 12:19pm
Essentially the left here has appointed themselves as the moral arbiter, the judge and jury before which people must prove themselves.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/18/2009 @ 09:14am
Only because the new con repub GOP has no leadership with the balls to call another repub out for injecting xenophobia/racist paranoia into the debate for political gain.
Thus enabling buffoons like Rump Limppaw/And Colder-types, to assume the repub leadership position; essentially acknowledging to all moral persons a GOP abdicating its moral authority.
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/18/2009 @ 12:37pm
How does one teach fish they're wet? Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 2:41pm Do you like fish sticks? Posted by Mistral at 09/17/2009 @ 3:03pm Do they stick in the mud? Posted by hsuBfools at 09/17/2009 @ 3:45pm "Fish sticks" refers to the Kanye West South Park episode. Posted by Mistral at 09/18/2009 @ 08:07am
So the fish do have mud, but it won't stick, because they don't know their already wet-- and they're Kanye West?
Is that just south of the ball park?
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/18/2009 @ 12:19pm
Some one set up us the bomb!
Posted by Mistral at 09/18/2009 @ 12:55pm
hsuBfools, A couple of questions for you.
How about if America gives every poor person a house or a rent free apartment, a free car with a life time of free service and fuel, food stamps, health care, accident insurance, free college educations, and throw in a new wardrobe every year and a big screen tv or two? This of course is besides the things they already take for granted like a military to protect them, public schools to educate their children and roads, highways and bridges to travel on while they go look for work, free vaccinations, etc.
Would that make you happy?
Who would pay for it and what do you say to the people who work for what they have who will have to pay for all that, because most of it they've already been given in one form or another?
While you are free to call people insane, isn't liberalism really 'insane'? Do you understand the Tea Party movement now?
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/18/2009 @ 1:32pm
Posted by Happy at 09/18/2009 @ 11:32am
urmy has a crush on me....but YOU are an admitted ditto-head, actually more than even Larry or SJCHER (though SJ says he reads Limbaugh's website every day).
And naturally, you won't directly discuss Rush's blatent racism...because you'd have no excuse.
Try "old news...ancient past" or even an admission of truth but the caveat "people change" and it undercuts Rush's constant refrain against Robert Byrd's membership in the KKK which PRE-dated Rush's "take that bone" comment by over 20 years.
That's not even going into "Magic _____" and the implication of that.
The only thing MORE hypocritical than Rush discussing racism...is if he discusses "the sanctity of traditional marriage" when gay rights come up....LOL
Posted by Mask at 09/18/2009 @ 1:33pm
The discrimination was clearly visible, after hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans.The administration virtually avoided "them" without providing the sufficient help.
Posted by Dastu11 at 09/18/2009 @ 10:44am
But now we've established that living in those areas (reclaimed cypress swamps that should have been left as protected wetlands) is inherently dangerous. Well, actually we knew that since Hurricane Betsy devastated the area in 1965, but better late than never.
So isn't the misguided effort to put people back into those same areas the real discrimination we should be worrying about?
Posted by Mistral at 09/18/2009 @ 1:55pm
Excellent article. And, yes we can, most definitely, in spite of all the fear-mongers, nay-birds and troglodytes.
George Polley Sapporo, Japan
Posted by georgepolley at 09/18/2009 @ 2:34pm
How about if America gives every poor person a house or a rent free apartment, a free car with a life time of free service and fuel, ... This of course is besides the things they already take for granted like a military to protect them, public schools to educate their children and roads, highways and bridges to travel ... Would that make you happy?
(Sure, wouldn't it make anyone?)
Who would pay for it?
(AH, so the other one was a trick question?)
While you are free to call people insane, isn't liberalism really 'insane'? Do you understand the Tea Party movement now?
(Sure, to insane people, sanity must be a real challenge.)
Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/18/2009 @ 1:32pm
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/18/2009 @ 3:26pm
It occurred to me what this "racism" charge closely parallels.
In Soviet times, dissidents were often declared "insane" and sent off to asylums.
For example, the mother of Mig pilot Alexander Zuyev was a land surveyor directed to survey the arable farmland in her district. Through her work, she uncovered massive fraud. The government was under reporting actual farming acreage. The unaccounted for food was obviously being sold on the black market by Party operatives. A lifelong communist, it shattered her faith. She had been a believer. She protested. Stuck with it. Was declared insane and shipped off. Her son shortly thereafter stole a Mig-29 and flew it to Turkey as payback.
When you cannot debate the actual issue, the unintended consequences, the intended ones, the cost, how it will be paid for, and if we should be doing it, it is much easier to just declare the opposition insane. Or racist. Or both.
I could oppose any white liberal's ideas and not be declared racist. I oppose those same ideas from a black liberal and then I'm doing it because I'm racist.
Again, this whole strategem is an insipid, tiresome act of desperation on the part of a Party that controls the White House and Congress and has the sympathy of more than 90% of every news room in the country.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/18/2009 @ 4:05pm
It occurred to me what this "racism" charge closely parallels.
In Soviet times, dissidents were often declared "insane" and sent off to asylums.
For example, the mother of Mig pilot Alexander Zuyev was a land surveyor directed to survey the arable farmland in her district. Through her work, she uncovered massive fraud. The government was under reporting actual farming acreage. The unaccounted for food was obviously being sold on the black market by Party operatives. A lifelong communist, it shattered her faith. She had been a believer. She protested. Stuck with it. Was declared insane and shipped off. Her son shortly thereafter stole a Mig-29 and flew it to Turkey as payback.
When you cannot debate the actual issue, the unintended consequences, the intended ones, the cost, how it will be paid for, and if we should be doing it, it is much easier to just declare the opposition insane. Or racist. Or both.
I could oppose any white liberal's ideas and not be declared racist. I oppose those same ideas from a black liberal and then I'm doing it because I'm racist.
Again, this whole strategem is an insipid, tiresome act of desperation on the part of a Party that controls the White House and Congress and has the sympathy of more than 90% of every news room in the country.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/18/2009 @ 4:05pm
It occurred to me what this "racism" charge closely parallels.
In Soviet times, dissidents were often declared "insane" and sent off to asylums.
For example, the mother of Mig pilot Alexander Zuyev was a land surveyor directed to survey the arable farmland in her district. Through her work, she uncovered massive fraud. The government was under reporting actual farming acreage. The unaccounted for food was obviously being sold on the black market by Party operatives. A lifelong communist, it shattered her faith. She had been a believer. She protested. Stuck with it. Was declared insane and shipped off. Her son shortly thereafter stole a Mig-29 and flew it to Turkey as payback.
When you cannot debate the actual issue, the unintended consequences, the intended ones, the cost, how it will be paid for, and if we should be doing it, it is much easier to just declare the opposition insane. Or racist. Or both.
I could oppose any white liberal's ideas and not be declared racist. I oppose those same ideas from a black liberal and then I'm doing it because I'm racist.
Again, this whole strategem is an insipid, tiresome act of desperation on the part of a Party that controls the White House and Congress and has the sympathy of more than 90% of every news room in the country.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/18/2009 @ 4:05pm
"1965 - Present - Racial subjugation continues as the so-called "War on Drugs" where a large number of black men are disproportionally sent to prison as compared to the general population. Massive amounts of drugs started coming into America the moment the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was signed. Nixon in 1969 official declared the War on Drugs.
That's my view anyway."
Posted by dont_know at 09/18/2009 @ 11:32am
Thoughtful presentation of your view, DK. Thank you for taking the time.
Anyone else? Bueller, Bueller...?
Posted by FLaim at 09/18/2009 @ 4:52pm
"In Soviet times, dissidents were often declared "insane" and sent off to asylums."
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/18/2009 @ 4:05pm
Perhaps the Soviets had studied the "work" of Samuel A. Cartwright, and were merely agreeing with his concept of drapetomania.
Posted by FLaim at 09/18/2009 @ 5:01pm
Drapetomania? Hmm, never heard of it. Just googled it, though.
What a ridiculous concept. A desire to be free declared a mental disorder.
Over the years I've clashed with nutcases who've declared that slavery in the South wasn't so bad because blacks were willing to fight for the Confederate Army.
To which I invariably say, "hooray for Stockholm Syndrome..."
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/18/2009 @ 5:14pm
Drapetomania? Hmm, never heard of it. Just googled it, though.
What a ridiculous concept. A desire to be free declared a mental disorder.
Over the years I've clashed with nutcases who've declared that slavery in the South wasn't so bad because blacks were willing to fight for the Confederate Army.
To which I invariably say, "hooray for Stockholm Syndrome..."
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/18/2009 @ 5:14pm
Drapetomania? Hmm, never heard of it. Just googled it, though.
What a ridiculous concept. A desire to be free declared a mental disorder.
Over the years I've clashed with nutcases who've declared that slavery in the South wasn't so bad because blacks were willing to fight for the Confederate Army.
To which I invariably say, "hooray for Stockholm Syndrome..."
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/18/2009 @ 5:14pm
Mask,
You contend Rush displays blatant racism.....You are fixated on things you try to contend are examples of that racism.
But these are things you have continually been bringing up from time to time as long as I have been actively blogging here on The Nation.
You have an established track record of taking things totally out of context and misrepresenting them......there is no reason to believe these things you "cite" Rush for are any different.
Thus, you have no credibility with regard to what you contend.
As long as you keep bringing up Rush, I need to point something out to you.
Rush said quite some time ago that the election of Obama would not end acrimony regarding the question of race in America, in fact he said the problems were only starting...........he said that anytime anybody opposed what Obama wanted to do they would be cited by the left for racism.
He was correct in his prediction about this, and it is you on the left that have proved him correct. From the bloggers on these threads on The Nation to the editorial contributors to The Nation such as Ms. Lacewell, to other leftist columnists/pundits such as Maureen Dowd.....to people such as the incompetent, sanctimonious, anti-Semite Mr. Peanut (Jimmy Carter)..........
the left has totally proven Rush correct.
The left has done exactly what Rush said they would do, throw the race card at warp speed...........just because people do not agree with what a Democrat president who happens to be Black tried to impose upon them.........
Rush is right....you and others are the ones who have proven him right.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/18/2009 @ 5:15pm
THIS JUST IN.......
END OF DEBATE........
Right now the NBC Nightly News is on television......they just showed an excerpt from an interview Meet the Press moderator David Gregory was conducting that is to be shown Sunday morning.
David Gregory asked the interviewee a question - essentially the question was---- does the interviewee agree with former President Jimmy Carter's contention that opposition to the proposed health care plan is based on race?
Interviewee: "No"
FYI: The interviewee is President Barack Obama.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/18/2009 @ 5:39pm
For a brief respite and get some good laughs at ACORN's expense:
http://www.breitbart.tv/thank-you-acorn-leno-plays- commercial-featuring-prostitutes-gratitude/
It's amazing how much comedy materials can be made out of so many real-world `events' to rake in viewers.....but the Legacy Media & Hollywood rather die!
Posted by Happy at 09/18/2009 @ 6:28pm
FYI: The interviewee is President Barack Obama. Posted by sjchermak at 09/18/2009 @ 5:39pm
Now now, he also said that some were opposed to him because of race just as some voted for him for the same reason.
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/18/2009 @ 7:14pm
Drapetomania? Hmm, never heard of it. Just googled it, though. What a ridiculous concept. A desire to be free declared a mental disorder. Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/18/2009 @ 5:14pm
Is that the theory where guys are so obsessed with their freedom-- as a reaction equal to their sexual desire to stay with their own mothers?
Or was that just Freudian?
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/18/2009 @ 7:23pm
Rush is right....you and others are the ones who have proven him right. Posted by sjchermak at 09/18/2009 @ 5:15pm
A racist is right about saying people will accuse him of being a racist! Genius in its simplicity...
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/18/2009 @ 7:28pm
That simpletons would buy it.
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/18/2009 @ 7:30pm
I was listening to the Mark Levin show the other night. there were the 'we're not racist - the liberals are' disclaimers.
It was most odd, really, really odd that up until now he's used martial music for his intro themes, but now he's actually playing James Brown.
I don't know what it means, but it means something besides 'Mark Levin is now funky'.
What say you, CHERMAK? I love this topic for the fact that EVERYONE seems to be saying 'I'm not racist - you are' in an endless loop. After 240 some odd posts no one has really resolved anything except the damn civil war is not over yet.
Posted by ficheye at 09/18/2009 @ 7:32pm
And why they need to carry their guns around.
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/18/2009 @ 7:35pm
ficheye,
This is not an example of leftist racism, but it is an example of how policy advocated by leftists (who scream racism at the drop of a hat to try and advance leftist causes) has harmed Black America.
http://economics.gmu.edu/wew/
(click on the link on Dr. Williams' page for Good Intentions)
You had indicated previously that you may review this. Have you done so yet?
Posted by sjchermak at 09/18/2009 @ 7:49pm
Our Union must then fail-- for when the fear of being accused of being a racist/fascist is less than the political gain their nut cases will provide threatening and/or dispensing their opposition: hey, just one of new con repubs many formulae for winning!
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/18/2009 @ 7:50pm
"Thoughtful presentation of your view, DK. Thank you for taking the time.
Anyone else? Bueller, Bueller...?"
Posted by FLaim at 09/18/2009 @ 4:52pm
Crickets...
"A racist is right about saying people will accuse him of being a racist! Genius in its simplicity..."
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/18/2009 @ 7:28pm
Yes, suggesting segregated school buses isn't racist at all.
How about this one, all...Reagan signed the Mulford Act in 1967. Is that law unconstitutional? Why has no conservative, libertarian or NRA member/ director ever challenged that law?
Posted by FLaim at 09/18/2009 @ 7:52pm
ficheye,
Since I did not even come close to the word limit on my previous post, I will add another comment.
It is totally disingenuous for Democrats or liberals to scream racism at peoples' opposition to proposed health care policies, when you look at the manner in which this has been proposed.
Obama and congressional Democrats tried to ram this legislation through in mid-summer without anybody having any real chance to weigh in with their opinions about it.
The town hall meetings, the speech before Congress......none of that was supposed to be "necessary" to happen.....by the time those things happened the health care change was to have been an accomplished fact.
The G.O.P. had an alternate plan that was totally ignored this summer by congressional Dems.
I never in my life remember a presidential administration, Republican or Democrat, try to whisk legislation through without giving the opposition a chance to weigh in and with those proposing the legislation going through a sometimes lengthy process to try and get those initially opposed on board.
Basically what people who are not in agreement with what is being proposed are seeing and hearing loud in clear is that they are essentially being told their opinion does not matter..........they get the message that Democrats do not feel they even need to be convinced of what the administration is trying to do.....
....what they see is that they are supposed to accept what Democrats want to oppose, like it or not.......
People are angry not so much because they oppose what the President proposes, but because of the total arrogance and contempt for them that this Administration has displayed.......
...but the minute they speak out about it......here come the penalty flags......Racism!
Total absurdity.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/18/2009 @ 8:05pm
typo,
"Democrats want to oppose" up above should read "Democrats want to propose".
Posted by sjchermak at 09/18/2009 @ 8:07pm
Posted by sjchermak at 09/18/2009 @ 8:05pm
Is that bed of straw you wove together nice and comfy?
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/18/2009 @ 8:16pm
I think reasonable people can agree that any dredging of the race demon carries with it the risk of stoking racial animosity. It's a calculated risk and sometimes necessary, but shouldn't there be some minimum threshold of plausibility beyond "it's possible." It's always possible with everybody.
MLK knew that he would have to do and say things that would be divisive in the short-term to achieve freedom for black people and something closer to unity for the country in the long term. I cannot, and I've tried, see how the latest string of accusations without evidence by white grandstanders is in any way analagous. They certainly promote division in the short term, but with no worthy trade-off, unless one believes that race should be used as a tool to achieve race-neutral political objectives.
Posted by gangpapist at 09/18/2009 @ 8:44pm
You had indicated previously that you may review this. Have you done so yet? Posted by sjchermak at 09/18/2009 @ 7:49pm
I have master CHERMAK!
What I found when watching this video and reading the article that antisocialist pointed me towards was this: There is an assumption by conservatives - or 'those on the right', if you will - that everyone (regardless of race creed or color) has the same opportunities in this country, therefore, since we all had the exact same access to schooling, money, and social surroundings we all should be able to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps and become millionaires.... or at the very least, succeed. Dr. Williams is a case in point in his didactic profession of this conservative fallacy. He insists that having 'rights' to housing and health care is a dream perpetuated by those who don't want to work and struggle for what they have. They want it given to them. If he had grown up in the 'hood' and ripped himself free of bleak poverty to be where he is today he may be able to stand on that pulpit. But I think not.
I am glad to have checked it out, because now I am more enlightened to this bizarre foundation of the 'rightist' mindset. It was what I was expecting, sadly. 'Opportunity' supposedly exists for all, so, therefore, the needs of those less fortunate are irrational. And the conservatives will give nothing. As expected, I might add.
Back to the topic at hand! Liberals cry 'racism', while conservatives holler 'socialism'! Hatred is never in short supply as humanity struggles in the human zoo for space, resources, and the dreams we once had.
And then Mark Levin plays 'Living in America' by James Brown while calling Obama a socialist rabble rouser. There just isn't enough beer to wash that out of my head.
Posted by ficheye at 09/18/2009 @ 10:05pm
ficheye,
You said, about Dr. Williams ".......If he had grown up in the 'hood' and ripped himself free of bleak poverty to be where he is today he may be able to stand on that pulpit. But I think not. ........"
So, you didn't watch the video.
Dr. Williams DID grow up in the 'hood', Ficheye! In Philadelphia.
The video talks about how leftist policy has ruined the public schools there......the public schools in the 'hood'......thus denying kids the opportunity to decent education.
The video talks about how leftist policy encouraged single motherhood instead of marriage in order to be able to get welfare.
The video talks about how the minimum wage has created a shortage of jobs for Black teens......and how he did have a job when he was a teen and thus he learned the work ethic from that job and it kept in from getting into trouble .............if kids have nothing to do they DO tend to find ways to get into trouble.
You either didn't watch the video or watched the wrong one or something here, because your analysis up above in no way matches what is discussed in the video...........a video (3 part series) of Dr. Williams discussing how certain policy has made things worse for those growing up where HE grew up, in the 'hood'.
You say up above ".......It was what I was expecting, sadly....."
That must be because you have your mind made up and nobody is going to be able to convince you otherwise.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/19/2009 @ 04:08am
That must be because you have your mind made up and nobody is going to be able to convince you otherwise. Posted by sjchermak at 09/19/2009 @ 04:08am
You're right, mackie. I read the article that anti suggested and it kind of soured me on the concept. I owe you one. Not feeling too well. I assumed (wrongly) that the video might mirror the article. I will attempt to start thinking again when I feel better.
Posted by ficheye at 09/19/2009 @ 05:00am
FACTCHECK.ORG is working overtime to counter the continuing smear campaign brought upon the Commander in Chief during a time of war. Now the Tea Bagging Traitors to the soldiers claim that Obama will fly the Chinese flag over the WH... a lie, they claim that Obama loaned 2 billion to Brazil, a lie, they claim that Obama issued a stamp with the image of a Muslim, a lie, George Bush was the president when the stamp was issued!
SO far I count about a 1/2 dozen claims about Obama doing nefarious deeds, and the tea baggers being OUTRAGED...and it turns out Bush did the nefarious deed or Obama just followed Bush lead!!
Why do good Family Values Christians feel the need to spread lies and propaganda? Do their Core Values not stand up to public debate on their own merits?
Posted by crabwalk at 09/19/2009 @ 09:14am
"On the other hand, if you are a republican and you harbor resentment because of years of abuse of the system by scam artists and welfare fraud, but you still have a heart and do not want to see anyone go hungry, especially children, you may have to confront your own prejudice but you will rail against anyone calling you a racist in a blanket way. " Posted by gunslinger1 @ 1:02
Pretty BIG aSSumption there kiddo, that welfare frauds are by default black!!
Did you know that their are more whites on welfare than blacks? Do you have some info that shows that blacks defraud welfare more than whites?
Yes, racism is at the very bottom of the fear of Obama.
I don't recall any signs in 1978 calling for Jimmy Carter to "Go back to England!".
Posted by crabwalk at 09/19/2009 @ 09:19am
You know full well that the G.O.P. had alternative ideas regarding health care, and those ideas were not allowed to see the light of day in the current Democrat led Congress back when the bill was originally created this past summer. Thus you know full well that there are constructive ideas that Democrats and leftists just ignore.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/17/2009 @ 09:00am
Where were these ideas from 2000-2006? Were they kept in the same place as the legislation that would have controlled FANNIE/FREDDIE?
SJ, what do you think the message was supposed to be when a tea bagger walked around DC with a sign showing the Commander in Chief as a "Witch Doctor", or one that says "Go back to Kenya"? ( would Sarah Palins spirit guide have protected us from witches?)
Are these protesters just misunderstood?
Did I misunderstand my locals when they told Obama supporters to get their "nigger loving ass" out of the Bluegrass festival?
Is blaming Obama for Bush's TARP program an accurate representation of the facts?
Posted by crabwalk at 09/19/2009 @ 09:27am
Dr. Williams DID grow up in the 'hood', Ficheye! In Philadelphia. Posted by sjchermak at 09/19/2009 @ 04:08am
And that presupposes that we all have the same capabilities-- Not.
It's why we have laws to make accommodations for people with disabilities. But also why very few play in the superbowl while many more made it into the high school varsity.
Yes, there are other opportunities-- if the other opportunities are managed and maintained. Thus ladders for climbing up or out of the ruts that we certainly have all over the USA, can't also be 'too' dangerous to climb per the varying capabilities of our neighbors.
Yes too, to grow and get into better shape: to improve mentally/physically/morally, one needs the desire to strive beyond ones capability with each successive step.
Thus these conjoined premises only fully function for everyone if the equipment doesn't permanently maim the lesser of us in their attempt to move forward. Seeing people get squashed as a positive rather than a lack of compassion is a common dividing line for for both conservative and liberal.
Is the bottomline only a conservative or liberal blame-game? Isn't the fault both not cooperating with the others strengths? Conservatives say they want competition, but will only lobby to make it less competitive. Liberals want to help the less fortunate, but will not allow enough opportunity in failure.
When conservatives are willing to fully fund public schools and work with liberals to make schools better for a stronger middle-class and thus more competitive, their blaming anyone else carries the weight of a party balloon.
Flexibility can be a liberal strength, but bending too far to conservative negative tendencies, only encourages their blindness to their own better angels and shows weakness.
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/19/2009 @ 10:37am
Posted by crabwalk at 09/19/2009 @ 09:27am
Don't forget the Czars! Obama is a socialist and working with Russia per all his Czars! Even though he really has no posts labeled as Czar only Directors like the previous presidents. Czar is a journalistic shorthand for a director of blah blah blah. Plus journalists noted already that hsuB had more Czars than Obama. Isn't stopping the dimwitted new con repubs faux spews listing it with other distortions to stir up their nut cases into violence.
Sometimes lies are just plain lies; those that spew them-- liars
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/19/2009 @ 11:20am
hsuBfools,
Many public schools are fully funded and some are way over funded.
Since public schools are under local control I am not going to claim that there aren't schools short of money.
There are, but there are many schools that have plenty of money and do a lousy job of educating kids.
The reasons have nothing to do with money, but with mismanagement of the money by the school bureaucracy, by subservience to teacher unions at the expense of kids, by introduction of curriculum that does not teach kids basic skills, and by the modern-day refusal of public school to discipline kids who misbehave.
What has happened is that many Conservatives and even some Democrats have supported voucher programs to give kids an opportunity to go to schools where they can get a decent education.
But people who propose or support these programs are crucified for doing so.
Abolishing teacher unions, abolishing teacher tenure, paying teachers by merit and not seniority, removing the obstacles to being able to fire lousy teachers, going back to teaching kids the three R's instead of nonsense subjects, and allowing teachers to discipline kids who misbehave in school would go a lot farther towards improving education in this country than having "Conservatives willing to fully fund public schools".
Posted by sjchermak at 09/19/2009 @ 11:24am
There are, but there are many schools that have plenty of money and do a lousy job of educating kids.
Posted by sjchermak at 09/19/2009 @ 11:24am
Show me a school that's failing and in more cases than not-- it's because of limited funding and thus inadequate necessary programs. Finding one or two out of literally 100's of thousands that do function well because of adequate funding is a poor proof for your contention.
Are there bad administrators? Sure, witness the hsuB/cHeney admin. But we didn't scrap our US Constitution. We changed the administrator.
With your logic we'd have to close all our hospitals too because more people still get sick and/or die.
Your logic is faulty and illogical; thus draws wrong solutions.
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/19/2009 @ 11:40am
sjchermak, and what are nonsense subjects being taught in schools? Orchestra? Art? Football? What?
Posted by Denise29 at 09/19/2009 @ 11:51am
Yes, racism is at the very bottom of the fear of Obama.
I don't recall any signs in 1978 calling for Jimmy Carter to "Go back to England!".
Posted by crabwalk at 09/19/2009 @ 09:27am
Maybe because not many people harbored doubts about Carter's citizenship and country of origin?
And no, I'm no birther. I think it is a silly way to go about this, but after the Kennedy assasination and Watergate we seem to have this need to discard Occam's Razor and embrace conspiracies and cover-ups.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/19/2009 @ 3:28pm
Yes, racism is at the very bottom of the fear of Obama.
I don't recall any signs in 1978 calling for Jimmy Carter to "Go back to England!".
Posted by crabwalk at 09/19/2009 @ 09:27am
Maybe because not many people harbored doubts about Carter's citizenship and country of origin?
And no, I'm no birther. I think it is a silly way to go about this, but after the Kennedy assasination and Watergate we seem to have this need to discard Occam's Razor and embrace conspiracies and cover-ups.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/19/2009 @ 3:28pm
Yes, racism is at the very bottom of the fear of Obama.
I don't recall any signs in 1978 calling for Jimmy Carter to "Go back to England!".
Posted by crabwalk at 09/19/2009 @ 09:27am
Maybe because not many people harbored doubts about Carter's citizenship and country of origin?
And no, I'm no birther. I think it is a silly way to go about this, but after the Kennedy assasination and Watergate we seem to have this need to discard Occam's Razor and embrace conspiracies and cover-ups.
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/19/2009 @ 3:28pm
http://tinyurl.com/mqakyx
And sometimes lies are more than just lies by liars.
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/19/2009 @ 4:13pm
Ms Harris-Lacewell I am truly impressed by your capacity for reasoning within the facts and the way you calmly and assuredly present them.
Thank you for the model you are providing.
Now go out and join FoxNews and change that organisation once and for all!
Posted by HSans at 09/19/2009 @ 5:40pm
The fear, as articulated by people interviewed during teabagger "rallies" is that they are afraid white people will be put into internment camps like japanese people were in WWII. The current induced mania against President Obama is driven by fear delivered pre-packaged by Limbaugh, Beck, O'Reilly and other selected members of the neo-con propaganda mouthpiece. They are able propagate the lies and terror because there are a number of people who don't share our values in this country who have even more extreme racist practices that the messengers. The mouthpieces know it, and are making millions off of them. This is why I believe that right-wing "talk" is actually unprotected hate speech. O'reilly already slandered, located, and publicly vilified George Tiller up until the day he was murdered, how many people have been hurt outside of the public eye? If you see one, there are a thousand.
Posted by Milhaus at 09/19/2009 @ 6:42pm
Seems ex-prez Carter has concluded that anyone who criticizes Obama must be doing so because he hates Blacks. Interesting. Then I guess anyone who criticizes Israel must then be a Jew-Hater. Welcome to the club Jimmy.
Posted by bean22 at 09/19/2009 @ 8:41pm
.....how many people have been hurt outside of the public eye? If you see one, there are a thousand.
Posted by Milhaus at 09/19/2009 @ 6:42pm
I wish you can be put on every channel 24/7 to express your POV....Oh, but you are.....Thanks....more please!
Damn, Racisms is every fucking where....above, below, behind, in front, in print, in blogs, in TV, in radio, in townhalls, in Gates' neighborhood in liberal Cambridge, in the caves of Osama, in the settlements of West bank......
IF we can just all be brave, not be cowards like what Holder said, and just sit down and have some `constructive' talks, it will then be all peachy, Hopey and Changey again....Praise the Lord...he's coming!
Posted by Happy at 09/19/2009 @ 11:33pm
MASK, Urmy pegged you exactly right....wish it was me who came up with it first. Limbaugh owns you! Posted by Happy
--I think Mask lives in a bubble...he only has pop culture references, therefore they are paramount to his "understanding" of how the world works...
Posted by urmygyro at 09/20/2009 @ 02:29am
THIS JUST IN....... END OF DEBATE........ Right now the NBC Nightly News is on television......they just showed an excerpt from an interview Meet the Press moderator David Gregory was conducting that is to be shown Sunday morning. David Gregory asked the interviewee a question - essentially the question was---- does the interviewee agree with former President Jimmy Carter's contention that opposition to the proposed health care plan is based on race? Interviewee: "No" FYI: The interviewee is President Barack Obama. Posted by sjchermak at 09/18/2009 @ 5:39pm | ignore this person | warn this person
--oh, snap! (bet that does nothing to derail Mask's crushes on rush limbaugh, glenn beck, bill o'reilly, et al!
Posted by urmygyro at 09/20/2009 @ 02:36am
Maybe Holder was right about Americans being cowards about the discussion of race.
But then again, who can blame them if they are? You can disagree with Ted Kennedy on a policy issue and it means nothing. Disagree with Obama on the same issue, and suddenly it becomes racially motivated.
Heck, somehow talking about socieo-economic standing has become codespeak for racism. As if being poor makes all Americans, regardless of color, "honorary blacks".
Is it any wonder Holder might get the impression a lot of Americans would prefer to stay away from race altogether?
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/20/2009 @ 07:12am
Maybe Holder was right about Americans being cowards about the discussion of race.
But then again, who can blame them if they are? You can disagree with Ted Kennedy on a policy issue and it means nothing. Disagree with Obama on the same issue, and suddenly it becomes racially motivated.
Heck, somehow talking about socieo-economic standing has become codespeak for racism. As if being poor makes all Americans, regardless of color, "honorary blacks".
Is it any wonder Holder might get the impression a lot of Americans would prefer to stay away from race altogether?
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/20/2009 @ 07:12am
Maybe Holder was right about Americans being cowards about the discussion of race.
But then again, who can blame them if they are? You can disagree with Ted Kennedy on a policy issue and it means nothing. Disagree with Obama on the same issue, and suddenly it becomes racially motivated.
Heck, somehow talking about socieo-economic standing has become codespeak for racism. As if being poor makes all Americans, regardless of color, "honorary blacks".
Is it any wonder Holder might get the impression a lot of Americans would prefer to stay away from race altogether?
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/20/2009 @ 07:12am
I think that former prez carter was right to say that those tea party red necks and followers of beck and limbaugh are racists.
but how about the racist liberals?how many percent of these "anti racist"liberals" support jewish racism and apatheid in occupied territories?it is indeed very strange that some of these jewish liberals dare to critisize beck and limbaugh(they support jewish racism too)and their supporters but at the same time proudly support building walls and land theft by their jewish israeli comrades.why such hypocricy?how come bleeding heart liberals condemn white racism but at the same time give their money and support to the most racist regime and people in the world?
hypocrite ass holes.
Posted by excalibur999 at 09/20/2009 @ 09:07am
Fun facts:
Something going around the net is the fact that the original Ku Klux Klan was comprised of mostly Democrats.
However, what is conveniently left out is the fact that those 'democrats' were Tennessee veterans of the Confederate army. Not northerners.
The views of political parties and the names they are called have been going though incomprehensible morphing since the start of american politics.
Posted by ficheye at 09/20/2009 @ 1:33pm
If you actually read what Carter said there's a little more nuance within his parsing-- he did not say the major portion of the rally or many in the rally, but rather those with animosity-- personally attacking Obama, are influenced by a major degree of racism:
"When a radical fringe element of demonstrators and others begin to attack the president of the United States as an animal or as a reincarnation of Adolf Hitler or when they wave signs in the air that said we should have buried Obama with Kennedy, those kinds of things are beyond the bounds.
"I think people who are guilty of that kind of personal attack against Obama have been influenced to a major degree by a belief that he should not be president because he happens to be African American.
"It's a racist attitude, and my hope is and my expectation is that in the future both Democratic leaders and Republican leaders will take the initiative in condemning that kind of unprecedented attack on the president of the United States,"
OR
"I think an overwhelming portion of the intensely demonstrated animosity toward President Barack Obama is based on the fact that he is a black man, that he's African-American," Carter told "NBC Nightly News."
"I live in the South, and I've seen the South come a long way, and I've seen the rest of the country that shares the South's attitude toward minority groups at that time, particularly African-Americans." Carter said.
Now consider the Teabaggers' rally was only about 60K and of that maybe only 10% were carrying over the top crazy killkillkill/dieHitler/ witchdoctor animal signs versus 300M. in the USA.
So Carter may have been giving the US a pass by possibly saying that there may be only 6000 racists in the USA! And as we all know, there's a hell of a lot more than that.
Posted by hsuBfools at 09/20/2009 @ 2:38pm
"red necks"
Posted by excalibur999 at 09/20/2009 @ 09:07am
Please don't use this term as a disparaging one. I understand that the colloquial meaning of things change in the mind of the general populace, but an understanding of history will reveal to you that you likely have very much in common with the thinking of the original "rednecks." Look up "The Battle of Blair Mountain" for a better understanding of my opinion.
I would also note that it appears no "conservatives" or "libertarians" who frequent these blogs felt it necessary to answer my simple questions:
"Why is the number of black men in prison so disproportionate to the percentage in the general population?"
or;
"Reagan signed the Mulford Act in 1967. Is that law unconstitutional? Why has no conservative, libertarian or NRA member/ director ever challenged that law?"
(To the Nation's editors: it seems to me that an article on the history of WVA coal mining, replete with references to Sid Hatfield, Don Chafin, Bill Blizzard, and perhaps even a reference to the moniker of another magazine, "Mother Jones," as I've always assumed that's where the name was derived, would be an excellent education for your readers. Thank you for the opportunity to make that suggestion.)
Posted by FLaim at 09/20/2009 @ 3:53pm
"When a radical fringe element of demonstrators and others begin to attack the president of the United States as an animal or as a reincarnation of Adolf Hitler or when they wave signs in the air that said we should have buried Obama with Kennedy, those kinds of things are beyond the bounds.
I think people who are guilty of that kind of personal attack against Obama have been influenced to a major degree by a belief that he should not be president because he happens to be African American."
Said by Jimmy Carter.
Nope, Jimmy, not buying it. The same kinds of things, if not even more horrible, were said about Justice Thomas, Rice, Rove, Bush, and Cheney by the "Free Mumia" crowd for the last eight years and it could hardly be called racially motivated. Fact is many Americans are so emotional they cannot express themselves in reasoned, measured tones. So we get Hitler comparisons, calls for heart or pacemaker failures, movies about Presidential assasinations (remember that one?) and all manner of incivility.
Or was it the expectation that Obama would be shielded from this rank hyperbole simply because of his skin color? And what does it say about the people making that assumption?
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/20/2009 @ 4:32pm
"When a radical fringe element of demonstrators and others begin to attack the president of the United States as an animal or as a reincarnation of Adolf Hitler or when they wave signs in the air that said we should have buried Obama with Kennedy, those kinds of things are beyond the bounds.
I think people who are guilty of that kind of personal attack against Obama have been influenced to a major degree by a belief that he should not be president because he happens to be African American."
Said by Jimmy Carter.
Nope, Jimmy, not buying it. The same kinds of things, if not even more horrible, were said about Justice Thomas, Rice, Rove, Bush, and Cheney by the "Free Mumia" crowd for the last eight years and it could hardly be called racially motivated. Fact is many Americans are so emotional they cannot express themselves in reasoned, measured tones. So we get Hitler comparisons, calls for heart or pacemaker failures, movies about Presidential assasinations (remember that one?) and all manner of incivility.
Or was it the expectation that Obama would be shielded from this rank hyperbole simply because of his skin color? And what does it say about the people making that assumption?
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/20/2009 @ 4:32pm
"When a radical fringe element of demonstrators and others begin to attack the president of the United States as an animal or as a reincarnation of Adolf Hitler or when they wave signs in the air that said we should have buried Obama with Kennedy, those kinds of things are beyond the bounds.
I think people who are guilty of that kind of personal attack against Obama have been influenced to a major degree by a belief that he should not be president because he happens to be African American."
Said by Jimmy Carter.
Nope, Jimmy, not buying it. The same kinds of things, if not even more horrible, were said about Justice Thomas, Rice, Rove, Bush, and Cheney by the "Free Mumia" crowd for the last eight years and it could hardly be called racially motivated. Fact is many Americans are so emotional they cannot express themselves in reasoned, measured tones. So we get Hitler comparisons, calls for heart or pacemaker failures, movies about Presidential assasinations (remember that one?) and all manner of incivility.
Or was it the expectation that Obama would be shielded from this rank hyperbole simply because of his skin color? And what does it say about the people making that assumption?
Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/20/2009 @ 4:32pm