Challenger to "You Lie" Congressman Cashes In After Speech

The words "you lie" will live in infamy for Joe Wilson, the overheated Republican Congressman who shouted at President Obama during his address to a joint session of Congress on Wednesday. Beyond criticism and a swift apology, the incident has already provided a fundraising bonanza for Wilson's opponent, Rob Miller, a Democrat and Marine Corps veteran.

Miller raised over $50,000 in just a few hours after Wilson's outburst, after activists and small donors flooded his page on ActBlue. Bloggers and readers at Daily Kos, a popular liberal blog, also used the site to instantly create a dedicated fundraising page highlighting the incident. The portal, titled "Defeating the man who yelled 'liar' at Obama: Goodbye Rep Joe Wilson," has already raised $35,000 for Wilson from over 1,050 individual donors.

Miller welcomed the spontaneous support on Wednesday night, sending a message to supporters on his Twitter feed: "55K raised, let's double THAT in 12 hours."

Adrian Arroyo, an official with ActBlue, noted that Rep. Wilson's antics struck such a strong chord, references to "you lie" on Twitter even surpassed Jay-Z, the popular musician who has led chatter on the site in anticipation of his new album debuting this week.

ActBlue, which has served as a clearinghouse for grassroots fundraising for Democrats and insurgent challengers for several years, just passed the $100 million fundraising mark last month. Organizers stressed that most of the money came from small donors -- 700,000 individual contributors with a median donation of $50 -- and empowered activists to create their own fundraising drives around issues and events that stoke public passions. As it turns out, heckling the president with false, hypocritical attacks from the House floor can energize a lot of people.

UPDATE: By Thursday afternoon, Miller's haul topped $300,000 from over 8,000 donors. President Obama also addressed the issue breifly after his cabinet meeting on Thursday.

In response to a reporter's question, Obama said he fully accepted Wilson's apology. "I'm a big believer that we all make mistakes," said the President, according to a pool report. "He apologized quickly and without equivocation. And I appreciate that," Obama continued. "I do think that we have to get to the point that we have a conversation without... assuming the worse in people."

Comments (174)

1. I made my donation to ACTBLUE tonight on behalf of Rob Miller opponent to Rep Joe Wilson from SC. It is ashame that this man has a name that is distinguished by Ambassador Joe Wilson, a man of honor and dedicated public servant. I hope the dems in congress shun this man for his disrespectful behaviour toward the President and shaming the House of Representatives.

   Posted by CarmanK at 09/10/2009 @ 01:12am

2. the thing is...under HR 3200...Wilson is correct, illegal immigrants would be allowed to participate.

   he's nutty for yelling at an inappropriate time...could cost him the seat next time

   Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 01:17am

3. I hope the dems in congress shun this man for his disrespectful behaviour toward the President and shaming the House of Representatives.

   Posted by CarmanK at 09/10/2009 @ 01:12am | ignore this person | warn this person

   --can't cops say the same thing about Obama when he disrespectfully butted his nose into the incident in Cambridge, MA this summer and called the cops "stupid"?

   --people say regretful things...wilson apologized. he shouldn't have yelled, he only hurt himself (as evidenced by this blog)...but "shunning" him? give us a break.

   Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 01:20am

4. Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 01:20am

   New con repub apologist...

   Posted by hsuBfools at 09/10/2009 @ 01:27am

5. Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 01:20am New con repub apologist...

   Posted by hsuBfools at 09/10/2009 @ 01:27am | ignore this person | warn this person

   --obama was no better calling a cop "stupid" (especially when he didn't know the facts). both what obama did and wilson did were unwise...but neither makes them bad.

   Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 01:38am

6. Gee, Rep. Wilson, now that you're famous here are some ideas for your next job--

   Professional Town Hollerer

   Barker in front of a strip club.

   Speech instructor at a bible college

   Featured role model on the next Jerry Springer show

   Ballast in an amusement park Diving Bell

   Bait in a very large fly trap

   Posted by Sorelish at 09/10/2009 @ 01:39am

7. Congressman Wilson lost his cool.

   The thoughts of all of those insurance industry lobbyists coming up his driveway with wheelbarrows full of money caused an emotional response.

   Posted by koroviev at 09/10/2009 @ 01:42am

8. Gee, Rep. Wilson, now that you're famous here are some ideas for your next job-- Professional Town Hollerer Barker in front of a strip club. Speech instructor at a bible college Featured role model on the next Jerry Springer show Ballast in an amusement park Diving Bell Bait in a very large fly trap

   Posted by Sorelish at 09/10/2009 @ 01:39am | ignore this person | warn this person

   --he can join us know-it-alls in the anonymous comfort of the interweb (apparently many of us are paid political operatives...evidently there's lots 'o money in spending all day chatting with people you don't know in real life)

   Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 01:43am

9. Congressman Wilson lost his cool. The thoughts of all of those insurance industry lobbyists coming up his driveway with wheelbarrows full of money caused an emotional response.

   Posted by koroviev at 09/10/2009 @ 01:42am | ignore this person | warn this person

   --obama has no desire to get rid of insurance companies...both democrats and republicans in congress can breath easy

   Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 01:45am

10. How much does a new con repub apologist get paid now?

    Posted by hsuBfools at 09/10/2009 @ 02:02am

11. Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 01:43am

    "O mischief, thou art swift To enter in the thoughts of desperate men." Shakespeare

    Posted by Sorelish at 09/10/2009 @ 02:11am

12. How much does a new con repub apologist get paid now?

    Posted by hsuBfools at 09/10/2009 @ 02:02am

    I believe 30 pieces of silver is the traditional rate.

    Posted by koroviev at 09/10/2009 @ 02:22am

13. I think we need to look into the reasons for his outburst. Why would a congressman do something like that if he weren't really upset at what the President was saying. This is similar to the Democrats hissing all the way through Bush's speeches. Both were rude. But maybe we should look at the details of the Democrat's Health care reform and see why Wilson called the President a liar.

    Posted by abell12ct at 09/10/2009 @ 05:53am

14. urmygyro: I'm sorry to say this but, You Lie:

    According to HR 3200, the actual document verbatim reads:

    SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS. Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

    Let's get the facts straight.

    Posted by rallbaugh at 09/10/2009 @ 07:15am

15. Welcome news. But Wilson must have gotten a bump too. How much?

    Posted by michellebarr at 09/10/2009 @ 07:21am

16. Best thing that could have happened.

    Wilson painted the Republicans as "screamers" not thinkers, angry not a "principled opposition"...as well as low class.

    He just undercut all the town hall meetings, by creating a potential "video mash-up" for places like YouTube and "The Daily Show".

    BTW, anybody still buy the line from urmygyro that he "supports universal health care"....when all he's done on this thread is defend a guy like Joe Wilson???

    Posted by Mask at 09/10/2009 @ 07:40am

17. Clearly, the health-care reform will not cover services for illegal aliens, for the following reasons:

    All legal residents of the United States will carry identity cards that they will present when they see a heath-care provider so that that provider will know they can legally bill the appropriate insurance plan. Health-care providers will submit the information from the identity card when they request reimbursement. In suspicious cases the government will investigate to determine if the identity card is forged, in which case the card-holder will be required to pay restitution for services obtained under false pretenses. If the person fails to reimburse the health-care provider, the health-care provider will notify the government, which will investigate to determine the person's country of origin and will bill that country for the treatment. If the health-care provider is determined to have colluded in the fraud, the health-care provider will be sanctioned.

    In all cases where a person receives emergency medical care the hospital will determine the residency status of the injured person. If that person is in the country illegally, the hospital will bill that person for all services provided. If the person fails to reimburse the hospital, the hospital will notify the government, which will investigate to determine the person's country of origin and will bill that country for the treatment.

    Posted by Mistral at 09/10/2009 @ 08:25am

18. Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 01:20am

    This wasn't a 'lost in the moment' sort of thing. It was a planned stunt by the right. Why they selected this guy to be "point" we'll never know.

    Posted by skeletonman at 09/10/2009 @ 08:25am

19. BTW, anybody still buy the line from urmygyro that he "supports universal health care"....when all he's done on this thread is defend a guy like Joe Wilson???

    Posted by Mask at 09/10/2009 @ 07:40am

    I've added him to the ever growing neocon ignore list. None of them have anything constructive to say and all they do is argue with everything here. I compare them to the "tea baggers" showing up to the town hall meetings. They don't wish to discuss anything, just repeat the faux talking points. I guess they figure that if hearing something over and over again works on them, it will work on us too! LOL

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/10/2009 @ 08:31am

20. It was a planned stunt by the right. Why they selected this guy to be "point" we'll never know.

    Posted by skeletonman at 09/10/2009 @ 08:25am

    That's all the right is anymore, a propaganda machine taking orders from their superiors. I have yet to see anyone on the GOP aside from Olympia Snowe, actually form a reasonable argument or idea on their own.

    The GOP, at present, is stuck in lock step stupidity. I have yet to hear Boehner say one thing that wasn't the "company line" or anyone else for that matter in the Grand Old Plutocracy.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/10/2009 @ 08:37am

21. About all Wilson did was to reaffirm all of us former Republican's resolve once more to never vote for their party again until they clean up their act. Start getting their heads back on straight and using the brain for something other than venom and repeating Rush Limbaugh's lies. They have gotten to be more like a unruly mob of anarchists than civilized people!

    Posted by ganddw42 at 09/10/2009 @ 08:38am

22. HR3200 sec 246 specifically excludes illegal aliens

    Posted by vanflatz at 09/10/2009 @ 08:49am

23. By the way, wonder what his spook wife thinks of his antics? ha ha ha

    Posted by vanflatz at 09/10/2009 @ 08:49am

24. Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/10/2009 @ 08:31am

    I think his M.O. is pretty obvious.

    Paint himself as "moderate", but clearly right-wing.

    Claim he's for "universal health care", but use the "pure progressive" mode (i.e. "nothing but single payer is good enough") to try to attack ANY reform...which is the right-wing position.

    First a throwaway line ("could cost him his seat")...and then continuing to leap to the defense of Wilson clearly "outted" him.

    And of course attack emile/Johannes yesterday for "who died and made you boss of this blog"....when that's what urmy wants to be himself!

    Posted by Mask at 09/10/2009 @ 08:51am

25. You are not thinking. Let's say you are an undocumented worker with a family of 4. You want to purchase a policy from the public option. NO proof of citizenship is required. You want affordability credits. Sec 246 of HR3200 says you can't have them.

    Are you going to let this stop you? No, because you are smart.

    Affordability credits get doled out based on tax returns. You can file a tax return without a SSN bu using an ITIN or a TIN. A TIN doesn't require proof of citizenship. Even a false or mismatched SSN on a 1040 doesn't cause you any trouble because the IRS simply puts this stuff in a suspense file and doesn't share info with ICE.Presto, you get your credits. The demos defeated citizenship requirements in an amendment attempt because they knew a back door would be discovered.

    Posted by sntauri at 09/10/2009 @ 09:04am

26. If you wan't further proof, try to find a pro-immigrant web site that is upset about Sec 246 in HR3200.

    Posted by sntauri at 09/10/2009 @ 09:07am

27. I'm thinking the law's the law, and your imagination is really running wild here. plus your a fotal tucking idiot

    Posted by vanflatz at 09/10/2009 @ 09:08am

28. "Joe Wilson should be censured by Congress"

    I THINK JOE IS AMERICAN PATRIOT THAT JUST SAID WHAT MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF AMERICANS WERE SCREAMING AT THIER TV....BARRY SOTERO IS A FUCKING LIAR ABOUT SOOOOOO MANY THINGS I CANT EVEN COUNT ANY MORE...BUT TODAY I WILL DONATE $1000 TO HIS CAMPAIGN WITH PRIDE...

    BY THE WAY LIBZ YOUR OUTRAGE AT JOES OUTBURST WILL BE TEMPERED TODAY WHEN THE NEWS SHOWS THE MANY TIMES YOU DETESTABLE LIBZ DISREPECTED BUSH BY BOOING AND OTHER ANTICS IN THE SOTU SPEECHES ESPECIALLY IN A TIME OF WAR!!!!!

    ANYWAY BARRYS LITTLE STUNT SPEECH WILL SOON BE A MEMORY WHEN HE LOOKS OUT HIS WINDOW THIS SATURDAY TO SEE THE HORDES OF TRUE PATRIOTIC AMERICANS IN THE STREETS OF DC CALLING THAT ASSHOLE A LIAR TO HIS FACE...

    WHAT WILL YOU LITTLE PUSSY LIBZ CRY ABOUT THEN???HMMMM?????

    THE BEGINNING OF THE END OF THE TRAITOROUS DEMONCRAT PARTY HAS ALREADY BEGUN...I FOR ONE CANT BE HAPPIER!!!

    Posted by libzRfreaks2 at 09/10/2009 @ 09:13am

29. plus your a fotal tucking idiot

    Posted by vanflatz at 09/10/2009 @ 09:08am

    Emotional outburst because you don't like the facts. Do some of your own research.

    Posted by sntauri at 09/10/2009 @ 09:14am

30. Don't know if it's true, but a blogger on another site said that the bill prohibits medical providers to require proof of residency thereby creating a loophool. I guess that's what got Joe Wilson all fired up. But if he would have voiced his perfectly reasonable and thoughtful objection to those working on the bill, surely they would have included a line that close that loophole. Why does this need to be so difficult? I thought we were paying this reps to respresent us and work out these issues in a legislative way.

    Posted by CsmithFL at 09/10/2009 @ 09:16am

31. the thing is...under HR 3200...Wilson is correct, illegal immigrants would be allowed to participate.

    he's nutty for yelling at an inappropriate time...could cost him the seat next time

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 01:17am | ignore this person | warn this person

    No, you lie:

    H.R. 3200: Sec 246 -- NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

    Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

    Also, under current law, those in the country illegally don't qualify for federal health programs. Of interest: About half of illegal immigrants have health insurance now, according to the nonpartisan Pew Hispanic Center, which says those who lack insurance do so principally because their employers don't offer it.

    Posted by EdwardBlake at 09/10/2009 @ 09:25am

32. surely they would have included a line that close that loophole.

    Posted by CsmithFL at 09/10/2009 @ 09:16am

    They tried to add this amendment, it was defeated. Why? The Hispanic Caucus went ballistic.

    Posted by sntauri at 09/10/2009 @ 09:26am

33. AFTER LISTENING TO A FEW HISPANIC TALK RADIO STATIONS THIS MORNING(I ALSO SPEAK SPANISH) THEY WERE INSISTING THAT WHAT THE LIAR BARRY SOTERO SAID WAS JUST FOR THE AUDIENCE CONSUMPTION, THAT HE WILL IN FACT COVER THE ILLEGALS AND FOR THEM NOT TO WORRY OR GET UPSET!!!

    IS THE SHIT GONNA HIT THE FAN WHEN THE LIAR IN CHIEF IS REALLY EXPOSED FOR WHAT HE IS...A FUCKING FRAUD!!!!

    Posted by libzRfreaks2 at 09/10/2009 @ 09:36am

34. On July 16, an amendment by Rep. Dean Heller (R-Nev.) that would have required use of the SAVE [Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements] program to prevent illegal immigrants from receiving the affordable premium credits was defeated by the House Ways and Means Committee.

    Posted by sntauri at 09/10/2009 @ 09:41am

35. BTW, anybody still buy the line from urmygyro that he "supports universal health care"....when all he's done on this thread is defend a guy like Joe Wilson???

    Posted by Mask at 09/10/2009 @ 07:40am | ignore this person | warn this person

    --it's not a "line"...if what obama was pushing for yesterday was universal health care, i'd be joining the "chorus" making fun of wilson...what obama is offering is a joke...wait and see...

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 09:49am

36. According to HR 3200, the actual document verbatim reads:

    SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS. Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

    Let's get the facts straight.

    Posted by rallbaugh at 09/10/2009 @ 07:15am | ignore this person | warn this person

    --see Mistral's 8:25 am post from this morning...his story is funnier and more to the point than I would be...

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 09:54am

37. To libzarefreaks,

    You are the problem. You represent nothing but the lowest common denominator. Slow down, put aside the crybaby emotion and learn the actual facts. Listen, think , and quit being such a stupid loudmouth. Hate will never win.

    Posted by akeladog at 09/10/2009 @ 09:54am

38. Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 01:20am

    This wasn't a 'lost in the moment' sort of thing. It was a planned stunt by the right. Why they selected this guy to be "point" we'll never know.

    Posted by skeletonman at 09/10/2009 @ 08:25am | ignore this person | warn this person

    --why would they plan a stunt where he comes off looking foolish and has to apologize afterward? conspiracy theories abound...

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 09:55am

39. BTW, anybody still buy the line from urmygyro that he "supports universal health care"....when all he's done on this thread is defend a guy like Joe Wilson???

    Posted by Mask at 09/10/2009 @ 07:40am

    I've added him to the ever growing neocon ignore list. None of them have anything constructive to say and all they do is argue with everything here. I compare them to the "tea baggers" showing up to the town hall meetings. They don't wish to discuss anything, just repeat the faux talking points. I guess they figure that if hearing something over and over again works on them, it will work on us too! LOL

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/10/2009 @ 08:31am | ignore this person | warn this person

    --the tragedy! another one bites the dust...

    p.s. - Mask will NEVER place me on his ignore list...I entertain him far too much

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 09:56am

40. libzRfreaks2 you have used your allotment of capital letters for the day.

    thanks to your blatant overuse the rest of us will have make do with lower case.

    Posted by Misheley at 09/10/2009 @ 09:57am

41. Why bother to do research when you'll just conjure up some imaginary scenario that proves your point? Seems to me that just like Wilson, Cheney and the rest, you don't think the rules apply to you and thus you don't believe that anyone else bothers to follow them either. And it wasn't an emotional outburst: I am seriously, rationally, deliberately, and yes, even imperatively, telling you to go fuck yourself

    Posted by vanflatz at 09/10/2009 @ 09:58am

42. You are truly ignorant. I can only feel sorry for someone who is so misinformed, and full of hate. It must be miserable being you. God Bless.

    Posted by akeladog at 09/10/2009 @ 09:59am

43. That last post was directed to libzrfreaks

    Posted by akeladog at 09/10/2009 @ 10:01am

44. And of course attack emile/Johannes yesterday for "who died and made you boss of this blog"....when that's what urmy wants to be himself!

    Posted by Mask at 09/10/2009 @ 08:51am

    These guys will take issue with the article in question, and then promptly find something not even related to the article and then go off on tangents and do their ranting. I believe their goal is to shift the focus of the topic at hand to something of their choosing. That is why I've decided to ignore them all.

    That appears to be the GOP motto actually. Since their platform has become the platform of the "haves" and everyone knows it, they have to try to deceive people into thinking that the GOP is for working class people...but nothing could be further from the truth. All of them say the same thing. Feed the war machine it raw meet, don't tax the wealthy, push bible study in schools, insist that everyone own a firearm and anyone not believing in these things is a commie, anti-American.

    Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/10/2009 @ 10:04am

45. Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 09:56am

    I think Joe Wilson said it best last night, urmy....

    LOL

    Posted by Mask at 09/10/2009 @ 10:04am

46. Mask: "I think his M.O. is pretty obvious."

    --even after wolfgang tells Mask he put me on ignore...Mask still wants to talk about me! told ya I'm never going on Mask's ignore list...NEVER!

    Mask: "Paint himself as "moderate", but clearly right-wing."

    --I'm not moderate; I'm liberal. Wrong as usual Mask.

    Mask: "Claim he's for "universal health care","

    --It's not a "claim"...I am for universal health care...Obama's plan is a joke.

    Mask: "but use the "pure progressive" mode (i.e. "nothing but single payer is good enough") to try to attack ANY reform...which is the right-wing position."

    --if "ANY" old "reform" (and how is he paying for his plan again?) will do...why do it right, right?

    Mask: "First a throwaway line ("could cost him his seat")...and then continuing to leap to the defense of Wilson clearly "outted" him."

    --I'm from Connecticut; I've never heard of Wilson before last night. I've only been in South Carolina driving through it to get to Florida. Contrary to your obsessive wish, I am not a "neocon" or a "repug"...I'm a liberal who's watching a democrat president (with a democrat filibuster proof majority in the senate) squander his opportunities to be liberal.

    Mask: "And of course attack emile/Johannes yesterday for "who died and made you boss of this blog"....when that's what urmy wants to be himself!"

    --you don't get irony, do you? emile says "who died and made you..." ALL the time. So clearly he wants to "blog boss" right? actually...you do...with your thousands and thousands of hours of saving posts in different files and then searching them from months, even years back to get people in GOTCHA moments!

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 10:05am

47. Ari, I'm challenging you for mischaracterizing this incident. Obama lied.

    Rep Joe Wilson (while out of line in his outburst) is correct that President Obama LIED to Congress and the American public last night. I'll give him credit for lying as only a lawyer can lie, by twisting the truth. They are eligible to purchase insurance (thus they can't be turned down), but they cannot obtain low income credits. Furthermore, this does not change the current practice in states like California in which illegals receive MediCal coverage for all medical and dental services free of charge. And that is not solely "emergency room" medical care as some are suggesting.

    <Congressional Research Service Report-R40773

    Treatment of Noncitizens in H.R. 3200

    August 25, 2009

    H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens participating in the ExchangeŠwhether the noncitizens are legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently.

    Thus, legal permanent residents, and noncitizens and unauthorized aliens who qualify as resident aliens (i.e., meet the substantial presence test), would be required under H.R. 3200 to have health insurance.

    Furthermore, unauthorized aliens would be barred from receiving the premium credit.>

    http://opencrs.com/document/R40773/

    As usual, the leftists (with exceptions of honest ones like Urmygyro) are railing against conservatives and bending over for the lying president and his propaganda ministers.

    Why are they railing against conservatives? Because we dare to openly declare and prove that the president and his apologists are LYING to the American public.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/10/2009 @ 10:05am

48. Joe Wilson is an up and comer!

    Between what Rush and Beck and Hannity and Culter and Malkin and Reynolds and Gateway Pundit and Fox.....he will more money than needed to run a House campaign.

    His outburst was inappropriate but it sure appeared genuine. Folks can relate to that....it's not like we haven't said "SHIT" or "FUCK" at moments that embarrasses ourselves.

    The Left would be making a mistake to elevate this guy's profile as the Right will just Drudge up all the bad behaviors of the Dems against Bush, collective (then) vs. singular JW now.

    I like this guy....and who knows, I may even donate to him!

    Posted by Happy at 09/10/2009 @ 10:07am

49. I'm thinking the law's the law, and your imagination is really running wild here. plus your a fotal tucking idiot

    Posted by vanflatz at 09/10/2009 @ 09:08am | ignore this person | warn this person

    --sntauri is making thoughtful posts...you're calling him a name...hmmm...who does a reasonable observer think is worth listening to?

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 10:07am

50. Illegals are covered under the Democrat health care plan and every attempt to ammend it to clearly exclude them has been denied by Democrat lawmakers. Large percentages of Americans simply do not want to pay for health care for illegals fearing it will attract more illegals.

    I have, for some time, come to the relization that illegals are here with the consent of our Government. We should cover them. BUT we should account for the cost separately so the American people have a chance to access the value of this free service. That would be fair. There has never been a real accounting of the cost of attracting low waged workers across the border. It's time to make a real time accounting - the cost on education - our judicial system - health care - all of it. I have a feeling that those who enjoy a low wage maid - or nanny - or contruction worker - is sticking it to the American taxpayer. These are jobs that could actually be given to Americans for a higher wage and will end up being cost reductive to all of us.

    Posted by DLazarian at 09/10/2009 @ 10:08am

51. Where did Wilson think he was, the British Parliament?

    Posted by Zeddmen at 09/10/2009 @ 10:09am

52. Posted by EdwardBlake at 09/10/2009 @ 09:25am | ignore this person | warn this person

    --sntauri and others have helped make my case for me...but we'll wait and see...I won't do a Mask and save any posts (I mean, what kind of lame loser does that anyway?)...

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 10:10am

53. Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 09:56am

    I think Joe Wilson said it best last night, urmy....

    LOL

    Posted by Mask at 09/10/2009 @ 10:04am | ignore this person | warn this person

    --Mask, fancies himself "politically astute" apparently thinks words on a paper can enforce themselves!

    he's "real world" sometimes--and fantasy land most others (like now)

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 10:14am

54. That's some quality cherry picking anti, maybe you are an illegal migrant worker?

    Here's the link, anybody interested in real knowledge should probably go there, instead of relying on anti's cut & paste skills.

    http://opencrs.com/document/R40773/

    Posted by Misheley at 09/10/2009 @ 10:15am

55. My first thought about the incredibly rude character and nature of the outbursts coming from the opposition side of the house during the President's speech last night, of which Rep. Wilson was only one, was that they all seemed very "parliamentary". Unfortunately for Joe, he just happened to be tail-end charlie in the chorus of braying and got shot-down for his trouble.

    My second thought was a bit larger: Does Mr. Wilson accurately represent the majority of his constituents' level of socialization, intellect, courtesy? If so, I am very pleased that I am not one of his constituents. Do his constituents wish to continue to be represented by someone who behaves like a bar-room brawler while seated in the highest legislative assembly in the country?

    I can only say that I would be embarrassed and ashamed to be represented in public by someone who clearly missed his childhood lessons in social conduct and manners and who, because of this, appears to be an ignorant bully rather than a gentleman aspiring to statesmanship.

    Posted by jmattei at 09/10/2009 @ 10:17am

56. .....I have a feeling that those who enjoy a low wage maid - or nanny - or contruction worker - is sticking it to the American taxpayer. These are jobs that could actually be given to Americans for a higher wage and will end up being cost reductive to all of us.

    Posted by DLazarian at 09/10/2009 @ 10:08am

    I HAVE enjoyed all that you mentioned (likely illegal immigrant maids, nannies & const. workers) without ANY intent of "sticking it to the American taxpayer".

    Know why? For one thing, I didn't claim the expenses paid to them as they all wanted cash...and this mean I reported higher income than actual. Another word, I paid on their income at my highest marginal rate as vs. they paying ostensibly much lower rate!

    That said, I absolutely want our borders secured and the illegal flows halted so that American workers of low skill can get market-based pay that will make the Fed. Min. Wage look like Mexico! This in turn, will STFU of you Libs who need a large underclass just so you feel good about your worthless self-image!

    Posted by Happy at 09/10/2009 @ 10:18am

57. "Illegals are covered under the Democrat health care plan and every attempt to ammend it to clearly exclude them has been denied by Democrat lawmakers."

    your statement is incomplete in at least two ways:

    1) it's not "democrat plan". it's "democratic plan"

    2). "illegals" are not covered under the plan. this has been debunked many times over.....but if "illegals" show up to the emergency room, very ill, they will obviously get treated. but this already happens, and will happen, no matter if they are covered or not, as jakobfabian wisely pointed out....

    Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 10:18am

58. Posted by jmattei at 09/10/2009 @ 10:17am | ignore this person | warn this person

    --embarassing like when the President called the Cambridge, MA police "stupid" even though he didn't know the facts?...that kind of embarassing?

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 10:20am

59. antisocialist, wrong again.

    from factchec.org:

    "That's simply not what the bill says at all. This page includes "SEC. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE," which says that "[e]xcept as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services." However, the bill does explicitly say that illegal immigrants can't get any government money to pay for health care. Page 143 states: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States." And as we've said before, current law prohibits illegal immigrants from participating in government health care programs."

    Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 10:26am

60. HEY DARLA-LOON...DONT YOU GET IT HONEY???

    THE ILLEGALS SHOULD NOT BE HERE TO BEGIN WITH....WHAT IS IT ABOUT ILLEGAL YOU DONT UNDERSTAND?????????

    JUST CONTRIBUTED TO JOES WEBSITE...IT WAS VERY GRATIFYING TO SAY THE LEAST!!!!!

    Posted by libzRfreaks2 at 09/10/2009 @ 10:26am

61. "These are jobs that could actually be given to Americans for a higher wage" Posted by DLazarian at 09/10/2009 @ 10:08am

    Oh man, that's some funny right there, now I have to clean "diet cuke" off my keyboard because I laughed so hard! Quick Roy throw me a towel!

    Posted by Misheley at 09/10/2009 @ 10:27am

62. but, again, if someone needs treatment.....they cannot be denied (duh).

    doctors cannot deny treatment to someone. duh.

    why would ANY doctor not help a patient? it's against their oath, their conscience, their duty, their humanity.

    again, antisocialist is a *fraudulent* christian.

    how can ANY christian applaud denying treatment to someone based on their immigration status? it's so horrendously xenophobic that i'm surprised a "christian" would support it....

    Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 10:29am

63. HEY libzRfreaks2 DONT YOU GET IT HONEY???

    WHAT IS IT ABOUT stupid, blowhard, loser YOU DONT UNDERSTAND?????????

    JUST CONTRIBUTED TO ActBlue, Wilson's opponent...IT WAS VERY GRATIFYING TO SAY THE LEAST!!!!!

    Posted by Misheley at 09/10/2009 @ 10:35am

64. Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 10:26am

    Darla, your post shows that you didn't really read what I posted from the Congressional Research Service Report.

    I already noted that the HR 3200 requires illegals to have insurance coverage. But it doesn't provide them with the low income credits.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/10/2009 @ 10:35am

65. "I already noted that the HR 3200 requires illegals to have insurance coverage"

    oh, i read it, and it's incorrect. and it's been debunked by every reputable fact-checking source out there.

    there is NOTHING in the bill which does what you claim. nothing. period. end of story.

    Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 10:37am

66. "I already noted that the HR 3200 requires illegals to have insurance coverage."

    antisocialist is very blatantly distoting his own link: it doesn't say "illegals" are required. it says resident aliens who meet a "substantial presence test".

    very, very different qualification.

    and in any case, i'm not sure why antisocialist would be OPPOSED to resident aliens actually paying into the system, thus lowering costs, and not "stealing" the white man's healthcare.

    Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 10:45am

67. Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 10:14am

    Oh, yeah....as another great thinker once said-

    .."who died and made you decider of what's interesting or not? get back in your cage..."

    LOL

    Posted by Mask at 09/10/2009 @ 10:50am

68. BTW, anybody not on Larry/antisoc's Ignore list should remember...

    he helps illegal immigrants do their taxes.

    Posted by Mask at 09/10/2009 @ 10:51am

69. again, antisocialist is a *fraudulent* christian.

    how can ANY christian applaud denying treatment to someone based on their immigration status? it's so horrendously xenophobic that i'm surprised a "christian" would support it....

    Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 10:29am

    Darla, I have NEVER applauded or supported denying medical care to ANYONE, legal or illegal.

    In fact, I've noted here on several occasions that I have as a Pastor vouched for illegals as their caregiver to secure for them MediCal services. I have taken these people into my home and provided them shelter, food, and transporation in addition to ensuring that they received the medical attention that they needed.

    As is your usual way, you speak from your bias rather than an objective inquiry.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/10/2009 @ 10:52am

70. For those of you that read the "summary" of HR 32oo from opencrs.com, please understand that the site is a "project" of cdt.org. Go to this URL to see how that site is funded: http://www.cdt.org/mission/2008funding.jpg draw your own conclusions Why not just read the the actual text for yourself, most people here should be able to read it EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOT ALL IN CAPS.

    When you are done reading it, let's have a civil discussion and find out where the facts are.

    Posted by rallbaugh at 09/10/2009 @ 10:53am

71. http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills &docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf

    Posted by rallbaugh at 09/10/2009 @ 10:56am

72. Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 10:14am

    Oh, yeah....as another great thinker once said-

    .."who died and made you decider of what's interesting or not? get back in your cage..."

    LOL

    Posted by Mask at 09/10/2009 @ 10:50am | ignore this person | warn this person

    --taking my cue from emile...thank you!

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 10:56am

73. antisocialist, good for you.

    so why deliberately distort the bill? better yet, why not encourage the bill's passing if it does indeed help nonresident aliens, which you claim to have done?

    Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 11:04am

74. antisocialist, good for you.

    so why deliberately distort the bill? better yet, why not encourage the bill's passing if it does indeed help nonresident aliens, which you claim to have done?

    Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 11:04am

    I'm not distorting the bill. It says that Resident Aliens must purchase Health insurance if they are not covered by an exemption (like participation in MediCal).

    I'm simply saying that the president lied.

    Secondly, I don't support our medical system for me personally, but I acknowledge that it currently exists. I would like to see all FEDERAL government involvement discontinued. I have always said that states have every right to offer these services.

    If California or any other state wants to provide illegals with healthcare, I have no legal objection.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/10/2009 @ 11:09am

75. --embarassing like when the President called the Cambridge, MA police "stupid" even though he didn't know the facts?...that kind of embarassing?

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 10:20am

    Just so! an "unstatesmanlike" gaffe for which the President also paid with apologies and a lot of nonsensical, waste-of-time, media circus.

    The point of my query is: Do these individuals who display a most astonishing level of ignorance and aggression truly reflect the nature and demeanour of their constituents?

    I hope not. I hope that the vast majority of Americans are like most of my American friends and neighbors who were always reasonable, civil, generous people and that these ill-mannered, self-interested political hacks have somehow duped their constituents as to their true natures until they are unmasked by their own conduct.

    Mr. Wilson is not alone, nor is he the worst offender in the current crop of elected officials participating in the political life of the country.

    Posted by jmattei at 09/10/2009 @ 11:10am

76. Some thoughts on the speech:

    Extremely distastful on the part of Wilson. Thought I was watching a debate in the Japanese Diet for a minute.

    Just the same San Fran Nan's self righteous indignation was amusing. I thought "Oh, sit down bitch"

    As a rule I never watch any of the "responses." They've become a tradition since the Dems got blasted in '80. They were sour grapes then and they're sour grapes now.

    Anytime Government begins telling you what you have to do, it represents a limiting of your liberties. I feel like I understand now, though, that Obama's not doing this because he's ideologically in favor of such things: He's doing it cause the only way the plan will work without costs going through the roof is if everyone contributes, which puts him a step ahead of your average Dem. It is a little disheartening, though, to see how easily the left dismisses concern over the loss of freedom as the "rantings of the right." Keep doing that long enough, and they'll wake up one day and realize they have none.

    Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 09/10/2009 @ 11:10am

77. Chip, exactly what freedom are we loosing here?

    Posted by rallbaugh at 09/10/2009 @ 11:12am

78. jmattei: "The point of my query is: Do these individuals who display a most astonishing level of ignorance and aggression truly reflect the nature and demeanour of their constituents?"

    --did obama's "stupid" (oh, wait "stupidLY" right mask?) comment represent how america feels about police? was his jumping to a conclusion without knowing the facts represent how americans think and act? you're trying to pin the people of wilson's south carolina district as unable to be different from him (as if he got 100% of the vote; which obviouisly he didn't; and even some people who voted for him are surely embarassed by outburst).

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 11:14am

79. Keep doing that long enough, and they'll wake up one day and realize they have none.

    Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 09/10/2009 @ 11:10am

    I thought that happened October 26, 2001. Then once again March 9 and 10th, 2006. (the Patriot Act)

    Posted by Misheley at 09/10/2009 @ 11:17am

80. Chip, exactly what freedom are we loosing here?

    Posted by rallbaugh at 09/10/2009 @ 11:12am

    Under the Dem proposals, every American would be required to purchase health insurance whether they wish to or not.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/10/2009 @ 11:43am

81. Ok, so I ask again, what freedom are you loosing?

    Posted by rallbaugh at 09/10/2009 @ 11:50am

82. Ok, so I ask again, what freedom are you loosing?

    Posted by rallbaugh at 09/10/2009 @ 11:50am | ignore this person | warn this person

    --the biggest freedom of all: cash. helllooooooooooooooooo!

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 11:52am

83. Ok, so I ask again, what freedom are you loosing?

    Posted by rallbaugh at 09/10/2009 @ 11:50am

    Freedom of choice. I thought that was dogma for liberals

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/10/2009 @ 11:57am

84. So, just how much DID the Obamanation LIE?

    OBAMA: "I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits either now or in the future. Period."

    THE FACTS: Though there's no final plan yet, the White House and congressional Democrats already have shown they're ready to skirt the no-new-deficits pledge.

    House Democrats offered a bill that the Congressional Budget Office said would add $220 billion to the deficit over 10 years. But Democrats and Obama administration officials claimed the bill actually was deficit-neutral. They said they simply didn't have to count $245 billion of it -- the cost of adjusting Medicare reimbursement rates so physicians don't face big annual pay cuts.

    Their reasoning was that they already had decided to exempt this "doc fix" from congressional rules that require new programs to be paid for. In other words, it doesn't have to be paid for because they decided it doesn't have to be paid for.

    The administration also said that since Obama already had included the doctor payment in his 10-year budget proposal, it didn't have to be counted again.

    That aside, the long-term prognosis for costs of the health care legislation has not been good.

    CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf had this to say in July: "We do not see the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount."

    ___

    Posted by BigPasture at 09/10/2009 @ 11:59am

85. OBAMA: "There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage."

    THE FACTS: Obama time and again has referred to the number of uninsured as 46 million, a figure based on year-old Census data. The new number is based on an analysis by the Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and the Uninsured, which concluded that about two-thirds of Americans without insurance are poor or near poor. "These individuals are less likely to be offered employer-sponsored coverage or to be able to afford to purchase their own coverage," the report said. By using the new figure, Obama avoids criticism that he is including individuals, particularly healthy young people, who choose not to obtain health insurance.

    Guess his momma taught him how to tell "white lies" and partial truths that meagerly cover LIES for the short term!!!

    Posted by BigPasture at 09/10/2009 @ 12:01pm

86. "I'm simply saying that the president lied."

    the president did not lie, as he said "illegal aliens," and not "nonresident aliens." there is a distinct difference.

    as even your (attributedly right wing link) pointed out: nonresident aliens need to fulfill a "substantial presence test" to determine whether they are, in fact here substantially; that is to say, not here illegally, but here to work, live, pay taxes, etc.

    so obama clearly did not lie.

    and besides, factcheck.org, debunked that over and over and over again.

    antisocialist, admit defeat on this one.

    obama's claim (and you cannot dispute this) was "illegal aliens" which is different from "nonresident aliens" (who need to pass a "substantial presence test") in order to be considered distinct from simply "illegal aliens".

    you are wrong. again.

    Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 12:03pm

87. basically, instead of condemning wilson's blatantly stupid, racist outburst, antisocialist is trying to semantically fidget his way into supporting wilson.

    and he obviously failed to do that....

    Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 12:05pm

88. Best shot of the night was the camera pan of Lindsey Graham about to applaud Obama, but realizing he was on camera, just rubbed his hands together.

    "oh - I forgot - I'm a Republican"

    Graham is a a pretty sharp character, but he looks foolish, and his after speech "confrontational" criticisms should be juxtaposed with his more natural "unthinking and uncalculated" support for what is right.

    Political theater at its finest.

    Posted by OneVote at 09/10/2009 @ 12:05pm

89. Posted by antisocialist at 09/10/2009 @ 11:57am

    Freedom of choice. I thought that was dogma for liberals

    --

    Funny, I didn't think you were a liberal...my bad.

    What choice am I loosing? I have health insurance now and nothing in the bill is taking that away from me. IF another cost effective option is presented for me and my family THEN I'll have a choice. Right now, not so much.

    Posted by rallbaugh at 09/10/2009 @ 12:07pm

90. RALLBAUGH

    The Freedom to determine whether or not you will have Medical Insurance. This is a specific but translates into an interference with one's pursuit of LL &POH, since I might want to do something else with the cash I spend on Health care.

    AND MISHELEY, I did not claim the Democrats had a monopoly on stomping on freedoms: I said GOVERNMENT.

    In fact, the Dems seen to concentrate on screwing up your economic freedoms, while the Repubs (as in your example above) are pros at destroying your political ones. Funny thing is, none of then get the fact that the two are inseperable.

    Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 09/10/2009 @ 12:09pm

91. --the biggest freedom of all: cash. helllooooooooooooooooo!---Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 11:52am

    But again you "support universal health care"...right?

    Posted by Mask at 09/10/2009 @ 12:10pm

92. Posted by BigPasture at 09/10/2009 @ 12:01pm

    RIO, can you GET a Lear jet?

    Do you HAVE a Lear jet?

    Posted by Mask at 09/10/2009 @ 12:12pm

93. basically, instead of condemning wilson's blatantly stupid, racist outburst, antisocialist is trying to semantically fidget his way into supporting wilson. and he obviously failed to do that.... Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 12:05pm | ignore this person | warn this person

    since when does the word "lie" connote racism?

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 12:18pm

94. What does it look like when people whjo may look like and seem to be Americans carry water by the bucketload for cabals of freaks who want more than anything to see Obama's team fail ... like OSAMA BIN LADEN, AlQ, KIM IL SUNG & A-11?

    Well, it looks exactly like this:

    "BUT TODAY I WILL DONATE $1000 TO HIS CAMPAIGN WITH PRIDE...

    ...IN THE STREETS OF DC CALLING THAT ASSHOLE A LIAR TO HIS FACE...

    THE BEGINNING OF THE END OF THE TRAITOROUS DEMONCRAT PARTY HAS ALREADY BEGUN...I FOR ONE CANT BE HAPPIER!!!

    ---Posted by libzRfreaks2 at 09/10/2009"

    Yes, it is as if OBL has a joystick with which he moves LIBZR (and others of his ilk) this way...and that way...and this way again...but always arrayed against their own elected government, howling ignorant epitaths, making town hallñ intifada even in the congressional chamber, blindly hating their more accomplished and wizended left-leaning citizens out of gut feelings of sickly, hideous rightwing inferiority.

    Anyway, onto specifics...

    (1) What will happen when LIBZR realizes that Wilson cannot accept his offer of $1000 because Monoply (TM) money is not legal tender?

    (2) Is LIBZR so amnesiac (could be the regular bouts of heavy drinking, including peroxide, with resultant head trauma from pratfalls in the street) that only FOUR YEARS AGO ago he was also blubbering loudly in all cap letters of the demise ("crack up") of the Dems...when the party did not control the exec or either legislative branch in contrast with right now? How is that for a bold and clear-eyed Nostradamus act!?!?!?

    Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 09/10/2009 @ 12:19pm

95. you are wrong. again.

    Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 12:03pm

    Darla,

    You are still wrong. You are conflating two parts of the same paragraph.

    And Here is the same info directly from the Cong Research Service Report.

    Read carefully

    <Under H.R. 3200, all legal permanent residents (LPRs),23 nonimmigrants, and unauthorized aliens who meet the substantial presence test (defined above) would be required to obtain health insurance.24 Noncitizens meeting the definition of nonresident aliens (e.g., temporary visitors, temporary workers in the United States for less than 183 days in the year) would not be required to obtain health insurance.>

    http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/R40773_20090825.pdf

    As to your nonresident substantial presence test, you reworded it completely backwards.

    <In general, an individual is a nonresident alien UNLESS he or she meets the qualifications under one of the following residency tests;

    Green card test: the individual is a lawful permanent resident of the United States at any time during the current year, or

    • Substantial presence test: the individual is present in the United States for at least 31 days during the current year and at least 183 days during the current year and previous two years. For computing the 183 days, a formula is used that counts all the qualifying days in the current year, one-third of the qualifying days in the immediate preceding year, and one-sixth of the qualifying days in the second preceding year.17>

    Thus an illegal who meets the substantial presence test is considered a resident alien.

    As I said, this is the standard used to provide them with ITIN numbers for filing tax returns.

    Posted by antisocialist at 09/10/2009 @ 12:22pm

96. Just put URMYGYRO on ignore. Felt good. Can scroll through the comments far more quickly now amd without the fusssilade of dull, pointless comments that have undoubtably started to bore even URMY himself.

    Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 09/10/2009 @ 12:26pm

97. "since when does the word "lie" connote racism?"

    i never said that.

    but anti's unconscious, swift, and insistent impulse to parse wilson's outburst into a justifiable retort to obama's (clearly) factual claim is (indeed) predictably knee-jerk conservative fear (of non-whites) getting "our" healthcare.

    do you honestly think that wilson is also concerned about foreign whites "stealing" our healthcare?

    Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 12:26pm

98. Would it not seem wise for those on stratosphere orbit Right to refrain from opening up a possible dialogue about lying as regards health system reform?

    Posted by lumenpro at 09/10/2009 @ 12:29pm

99. --the biggest freedom of all: cash. helllooooooooooooooooo!

    ---Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 11:52am

    But again you "support universal health care"...right?

    Posted by Mask at 09/10/2009 @ 12:10pm | ignore this person |

    --yes I do...I was making fun of larry...you're not so sharp mask

    Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 12:29pm

100. "Thus an illegal who meets the substantial presence test is considered a resident alien."

     again, you are wrong.

     an illegal "who meets the substantial presence test" is considered not illegal anymore.

     they are considered a "resident alien," which is not an "illegal alien."

     they are two different qualifications.

     obama said, "illegal aliens," he didn't say "nonresident or resident aliens."

     thus, obama DID NOT LIE!

     and, besides, we are going off an INTERPRETATION OF THE BILL FROM a right wing site of your choosing.

     Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 12:29pm

101. Freedom to spend cash where ever I want...wish my wife knew about that one. Perhaps one of you can send me a link to the summary?

     Posted by rallbaugh at 09/10/2009 @ 12:30pm

102. Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 01:38am

     Actually, he never called the Cambridge cop stupid. He stated, accurately, that the "Cambridge police acted stupidly". The false arrest of Henry Louis Gates created a situation in which the city of Cambridge and its police department could have been successfully sued. Crowley's report itself could have been used as evidence against him. Lawrence O'Donnell successfully sued the Boston PD in federal court for false arrest a number of years ago, as a result of an equally quickly dismissed disorderly conduct charge. You make not like the president, but at least quote him correctly. Then examine the quote. He was absolutely correct in his assessment.

     And Wilson has certainly, if inadvertently, done a great service to this country - showing a lot of people exactly what he and his ilk really are, further highlighting the incredibly boorish, whiny nature of those who were turned out of power last year. The moron was actually lying when he accused the president of lying.

     Posted by jmusolino at 09/10/2009 @ 12:30pm

103. Just put URMYGYRO on ignore. Felt good. Can scroll through the comments far more quickly now amd without the fusssilade of dull, pointless comments that have undoubtably started to bore even URMY himself. Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 09/10/2009 @ 12:26pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     --and another one bites, another one bites...another one bites the dust!

     next...

     Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 12:31pm

104. let me just spell it out for everyone:

     obama said (more or less) that illegal aliens will not qualify for government funds.

     he never said "nonresident or resident aliens who pass the substantial presence test".

     if he had said that, then yes he would have lied.

     but obama didn't say that. ok? so he didn't fucking lie.

     second, that people like antisocialist, et al, are so, so concerned that obama did lie says one thing: they are more interested in defending wilson's claim, which was clearly underpinned by hatred and fear of mexican immigrants (who else? canadians or brits who overstay their visas?) coming to this country and mowing his lawn, taking care of his children, and cooking his food.

     Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 12:34pm

105. What choice am I loosing? I have health insurance now and nothing in the bill is taking that away from me. IF another cost effective option is presented for me and my family THEN I'll have a choice. Right now, not so much.

     Posted by rallbaugh at 09/10/2009 @ 12:07pm

     I'm sorry, I thought this was about all Americans, not just you.

     Many Americans like myself who do not purchase health insurance, who do not want health insurance would lose our freedom of choice on this issue.

     What you are doing is imposing a massive tax increase because if I don't purchase the insurance, Obama and the govt are going penalize me on my tax return.

     Posted by antisocialist at 09/10/2009 @ 12:34pm

106. I asked Darladoon: "since when does the word "lie" connote racism?"

     she responded: "i never said that."--Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 12:26pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     Here's what Darla wrote that made me ask the question above: "basically, instead of condemning wilson's blatantly stupid, racist outburst, antisocialist is trying to semantically fidget his way into supporting wilson. and he obviously failed to do that...."--Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 12:05pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     --So puttin' my Mask on now: GOTCHA! Like you keep berating Antisocialist--admit defeat Darla. Admit you were wrong.

     Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 12:34pm

107. urmygyro, you didn't successfully prove that i said, verbatim, that "lies equal racism". nice try.

     Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 12:37pm

108. "What you are doing is imposing a massive tax increase because if I don't purchase the insurance, Obama and the govt are going penalize me on my tax return."

     i agree that people should not be penalized for not purchasing insurance, but this bill does not amount to a "massive tax increase." that is false.

     and if you apply that standard to other spending "priorities," then obviously you must have felt the same way about bush ramming through two foreign military invasions.

     Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 12:39pm

109. urmygyro, you didn't successfully prove that i said, verbatim, that "lies equal racism". nice try.

     Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 12:37pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     --Joe Wilson (to the President): "you lie"

     you, darla, called what wilson said a "racist outburst" ... what's racist about someone telling someone else they lied?

     Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 12:45pm

110. urmygyro, you didn't successfully prove that i said, verbatim, that "lies equal racism". nice try.

     Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 12:37 pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     p.s. - since when can someone only mean something if they say it "verbatim"?

     Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 12:47pm

111. i agree that people should not be penalized for not purchasing insurance, but this bill does not amount to a "massive tax increase." that is false.

     Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 12:39pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     --obama's not gonna add to the deficit (not a dime) and if it's not paid with tax increases...where's the money coming from?

     ...oh, right...elimination of "waste"...heheh

     Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 12:51pm

112. The Democrats will get the opportunity to Compromise with Wilson when Wilson is in the new Republican Majority in 2010. Bring on the impeachment hearings, Democrats wouldnt have done zilch with the majority anyway. Might as well have a Republican majority in 2010 so the Democrats can really, really, really Compromise!!

     Democrats have made the IRS the new collection enforcer for insurance CEOs, so that the CEOs can get wealthier, and Americans can still go bankrupt even with insurance, even after paying tens of thousands of dollars in premiums for decade after decade.

     A mandate without an Option is a gift to the CEOs, I am not impressed at all with the Democrats fight for us, they all seem to be more passionate about getting along with C0nservatives.

     Zero support in 2010 - bring on the impeachment hearings - F--- Bi-Partisanship - F--- the Democrats

     Posted by DPGrassley at 09/10/2009 @ 12:54pm

113. The Democrats will get the opportunity to Compromise with Wilson when Wilson is in the new Republican Majority in 2010. Bring on the impeachment hearings, Democrats wouldnt have done zilch with the majority anyway. Might as well have a Republican majority in 2010 so the Democrats can really, really, really Compromise!!

     Democrats have made the IRS the new collection enforcer for insurance CEOs, so that the CEOs can get wealthier, and Americans can still go bankrupt even with insurance, even after paying tens of thousands of dollars in premiums for decade after decade.

     A mandate without an Option is a gift to the CEOs, I am not impressed at all with the Democrats fight for us, they all seem to be more passionate about getting along with C0nservatives.

     Zero support in 2010 - bring on the impeachment hearings - F--- Bi-Partisanship - F--- the Democrats

     Posted by DPGrassley at 09/10/2009 @ 12:54pm

114. "The GOP, at present, is stuck in lock step stupidity. I have yet to hear Boehner say one thing that wasn't the "company line" or anyone else for that matter in the Grand Old Plutocracy.

     Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/10/2009 @ 08:37am"

     Well said. The GOP thinks the only way to interact or discuss issues is to follow what I call The Church Model. In other words, assume that you already have all the answers, then talk about only problems which support those pre-ordained 'answers'. And most of all, NEVER assume or admit that your 'logic' is incomplete or infallible and NEVER argue with the minister.

     Posted by DejaVu at 09/10/2009 @ 12:57pm

115. osted by DPGrassley at 09/10/2009 @ 12:54pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     --exactly!

     Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 12:59pm

116. Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 12:29pm

     Darla, I'm trying to be patient, but you can't possibly be that dense.

     1.An illegal who meets the substantial presence test is still an illegal under US law, under this proposal and under the IRS tax code.

     2.Resident alien determination from IRS Publication 519 (which was used for drafting HR3200)

     <Resident Aliens

     You are a resident alien of the United States for tax purposes if you meet either the green card test or the substantial presence test for calendar year 2008 (January 1–December 31). Even if you do not meet either of these tests, you may be able to choose to be treated as a U.S. resident for part of the year>

     http://www.irs.gov/publications/p519/ch01.html

     And you keep suggesting I'm using a rightwing site. I have given you the link to the actual Congressional Research Service Report and quoted directly from it. Quit misstating my posts.

     http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/R40773_20090825.pdf

     Posted by antisocialist at 09/10/2009 @ 1:20pm

117. let me just spell it out for everyone: obama said (more or less) that illegal aliens will not qualify for government funds.

     he never said "nonresident or resident aliens who pass the substantial presence test".

     if he had said that, then yes he would have lied.

     but obama didn't say that. ok? so he didn't fucking lie.

     Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 12:34pm

     Well, if we were debating the context you just posted, perhaps I'd agree with you. But that's not why I say that he lied. Let me post his actual quote and then perhaps you'll better understand (I hope).

     <There are also those who claim that our reform effort will insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false - the reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.>

     http://tinyurl.com/mwnjcb

     Does it not state clearly in HR 3200 that "unauthorized aliens" who meet the substantial presence test, are required to obtain insurance? Does that not mean that the bill specifically addresses that the bill also applies to them?

     <Under H.R. 3200, all legal permanent residents (LPRs),23 nonimmigrants, and unauthorized aliens who meet the substantial presence test (defined above) would be required to obtain health insurance.24 Noncitizens meeting the definition of nonresident aliens (e.g., temporary visitors, temporary workers in the United States for less than 183 days in the year) would not be required to obtain health insurance.>

     http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/R40773_20090825.pdf

     Posted by antisocialist at 09/10/2009 @ 1:25pm

118. "You lie!" Such an inelegant insult, obviously the product of an overwrought and unschooled mind. If this were the British Parliament, a Tory might say, "This mendacious prevarication by the right honorable gentlemen is unworthy of utterance and cannot go unchallenged by those concerned with honesty and decency within these hallowed halls!" But no. The ignant crakker whitefolks kin only burp him up som bile. Jeez. That should be very embarrassing for Republicans.

     Posted by jgogek at 09/10/2009 @ 1:35pm

119. "p.s. - since when can someone only mean something if they say it "verbatim"?"----Posted by urmygyro at 09/10/2009 @ 12:47pm

     Just so we're clear...THAT's a joke too, right?

     Posted by Mask at 09/10/2009 @ 1:48pm

120. and NEVER argue with the minister.

     Posted by DejaVu at 09/10/2009 @ 12:57pm

     Rev Larry would agree with that to be sure. Ever go to church and hear the minister, priest etc. go off on their own little political tirade? Nobody ever call them on the spot because I guess that's un-Godly yet the minister or priest uses the church bully pulpit to ram down their religotics onto people (with the force of God behind them of course).

     Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/10/2009 @ 1:54pm

121. religotics ....sorry was supposed to be religolotics but you get my drift.

     Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/10/2009 @ 1:56pm

122. "What you are doing is imposing a massive tax increase because if I don't purchase the insurance, Obama and the govt are going penalize me on my tax return."

     i agree that people should not be penalized for not purchasing insurance, but this bill does not amount to a "massive tax increase." that is false.

     and if you apply that standard to other spending "priorities," then obviously you must have felt the same way about bush ramming through two foreign military invasions.

     Posted by darladoon at 09/10/2009 @ 12:39pm

     1. I realize that massive is a subjective term. but if you double or triple my taxes, that is massive to me.

     <Under the version of the mandate proposed by Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, individuals would face a tax of at least $750 if they do not purchase health coverage. And while his proposal would provide subsidies to lower-income Americans, those subsidies would stop at 300 percent of the federal poverty level. What that means is that a family of four with a household income above $66,150 would face a tax of $3,800 if they do not obtain health insurance, while an individual with income above $32,490 would face a tax of $950.>

     http://tinyurl.com/ondsm9

     2. your war comparison doesn't work. There is no specific tax levied against you for the war, whether you approve of it or not.

     However, as shown above, my refusal to buy insurance results in a large tax upon me for not purchasing it and I still would not have insurance (the insurance I chose not to have). It is simply a penalty tax for not buying insurance.

     Posted by antisocialist at 09/10/2009 @ 2:00pm

123. Rev Larry would agree with that to be sure. Ever go to church and hear the minister, priest etc. go off on their own little political tirade? Nobody ever call them on the spot because I guess that's un-Godly yet the minister or priest uses the church bully pulpit to ram down their religotics onto people (with the force of God behind them of course).

     Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/10/2009 @ 1:54pm

     I don't believe that any pastor or priest should use the pulpit to speak on politics. I have never done it and I never allow anyone else to do so in the church meetings.

     Posted by antisocialist at 09/10/2009 @ 2:06pm

124. antisocialist-Requiring that most everyone buy health insurance only infringes on the freedom of irresponsible people who expect others to pay if they get sick,injured,or in a car wreck.I have no problems requiring irresponsible people to be more responsible and believe that since they are willing to force others to pay for them and limit our freedom I do not care about their freedom to be irresponsible.Even the Amish and Christian scientists have ended up in hospitals so even they should have health insurance..

     Posted by i'm nobody at 09/10/2009 @ 2:09pm

125. Wilson was wrong to yell "liar" at the president and right to apologize.

     But it has been the president who has taken the lead in accusing others, of "spreading lies." He did it in his Labor Day speech and in yesterdays' address to the Congress. Obama who has been calling his critics, liars rather than merely mistaken or misinformed. Wilson spoke out when Obama accused prominent Republicans of attributing to him "panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens." He said: "It is a lie, plain and simple."

     At that point Wilson shouted, "You lie!" That was discourteous, but he was right.

     Consider Obama's April 14 NYTimes interview with David Leonheardt:

     OBAMA: I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues. But that's also a huge driver of cost, right?

     I mean, the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here.

     LEONHEARDT: So how do you -- how do we deal with it?

     OBAMA: I think that there is going to have to be a conversation that is guided by doctors, scientists, ethicists. And then there is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place. It is very difficult to imagine the country making those decisions just through the normal political channels. And that's part of why you have to have some independent group that can give you guidance. It's not determinative, but I think has to be able to give you some guidance. And that's part of what I suspect you'll see emerging out of the various health care conversations that are taking place on the Hill right now.

     Obama was talking about, what Palin indelicately but correctly called, death panels.

     He is a champion liar.

     Posted by Pirovano at 09/10/2009 @ 2:22pm

126. That New York Times interview with Leonheardt can be read here: http://tinyurl.com/d74mfa

     Posted by Pirovano at 09/10/2009 @ 2:27pm

127. Unbelievable. Have we all become so tone deaf to doubt that politicians lie to our faces? Remember Bill Clinton? Remember GWB? Barack Obama is no different. He told several bold faced lies last night and anyone who can think for themselves knows it.

     I don't fault Joe Wilson one bit for acknowledging bullshit when he hear's it. He simply made the rest of America aware of it. I wouldn't have apologized if I were him. In fact, I would have held a news conference to highlight the lies. Has anyone ever seen Parliament in action? Grow up people and please dump your kool-ade.

     Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/10/2009 @ 2:47pm

128. Posted by PhilMcCrevice at 09/10/2009 @ 12:19pm

     Phil:

     It is a critical public service that this blog provides to us all, especially the libzRfreaks2-type of screaming, rightie, all-caps rageballs:

     1.)It is a poignant illustration of just where the center of gravity is on the other team, an important barometer to watch, as it portrays a picture of, uh, "the base" (and ho how base it is);

     2.)We are a valuable release valve, to wit: can you imagine the wives and/or girlfriends, children, and, more likely, parents who would otherwise suffer the torrents of verbal abuse and ranting if these people couldn't unleash here? The dog-kickings, road rage and spousal abuse alone would no doubt exact a human toll far beyond the scope of these hallowed pages;

     3.) If you were 37 and living above your mom's garage, you'd be pretty ornery too.

     Buck up, sir, be proud of what we do here, and keep up the good work.

     Posted by schnellerheinz at 09/10/2009 @ 5:12pm

129. Posted by libzRfreaks2 at 09/10/2009 @ 09:36am | ignore this person | warn this person

     You are ignored....go stick your head in the mud.

     Posted by jarshadow at 09/10/2009 @ 5:17pm

130. PS:

     Since libz so dissrespects the Prez, that means, as we all know from our rightie friends who adhere to the concept of the all-super-maximum unitary-executive omnipotent war-leader theorem, that he "hates the troops", and is therefore a pinko surrender monkey.

     Posted by schnellerheinz at 09/10/2009 @ 5:20pm

131. @ Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 09/10/2009 @ 12:09pm

     Oh chocolate chippy maybe I would get your point if you could express it coherently. Or at least without drooling all over your keyboard.

     Posted by mishelley at 09/10/2009 @ 5:39pm

132. F--- the Democrats in 2010 - mandate with no option - IRS collection agent for insurance CEOs.

     Posted by DPGrassley at 09/10/2009 @ 6:22pm

133. I think Mr. Wilson has done the American public an immense service he has truly opened up the debate on healthcare. Admitedly he's inflamed that debate but I think he has expanded both the public discourse and interest on the issue as a whole and coverage of illegal aliens particular.

     Although Mr. Wilson may or may not be correct with regard to the nuances of law involved from a realistic perspective it's hard to see how he is wrong. What hospital in the United States will turn someone away who needs treatment for a gunshot or some other serious trauma? In addition there is a compelling public interest in treating people with dangerous and contagious diseases such as tuberculosis. No doctor or health care administrator is going to turn away someone with a dangerous pathogen that could infect hundreds or dozens of other people. The overall public interest is simply to great to simply allow these situations to go unattended and untreated, regardless of immigration status.

     What I feel has happened is that the press in the effort to present "news" has done nothing more than support the powers that be. Look at what's happened this past year despite a new President we are still pursuing the same policies of the Bush administration of bailing out financial fat cats and fighting unending wars abroad. How many of these financial CEOs' that caused this economic mess have gone to jail or even been adequately investigated since last year.

     With this dearth of true information is any wonder that Americans are going crazy? We have information but not news. Since we don't have true public discourse is it any wonder that people like Mr. Wilson go batty?

     The press today doesn't promote news it promotes emotion sensationalism and the powers that be.

     Posted by Mefistofeles at 09/10/2009 @ 6:52pm

134. Here's what I don't understand about the illegal immigration thing:

     1) If you cross into the country in violation of law, you are here illegally. Being here for the amount of time required for the substantial presence test doesn't change that basic fact.

     2) I think Obama has a little bit of a dilemma when it comes to whether the healthcare plan includes illegal immigrants. When he and many other Democrats argued for the bill, they cited a figure that 50 million Americans are uninsured., and specifically promised to fix that. An interesting tidbit that has been noted and never refuted is that this "50 million" number includes illegal immigrants. This means that 1 of 2 things is true. Either:

     a) The bill doesn't include illegal immigrants...in which case the "we'll fix the 50-million-uninsured problem" statement was and is false, OR

     b) The bill includes illegal immigrants...in which case Obama's statement in the speech last night was false.

     Logically, there is no third alternative.

     As far as Joe Wilson is concerned, I think Obama was right. His outburst was highly inappropriate in that setting, but I think Obama's gracious response to his apology is an example that both liberals and conservatives should emulate.

     More broadly...I think our politics could stand to be a good deal more gracious, on both sides of the aisle. People make mistakes, people screw up, which is why I think grace is so fundamental, not simply as a "pie-in-the-sky notion," but as a means of living everyday life.

     Posted by Thrawn at 09/10/2009 @ 7:51pm

135. As much as I hate to say this I completely agree with antisocialist.

     Forcing people to do something for "their own good" reeks of bullshit.

     There's been periods of my life where I carried no insurance and never once did I burden anybody with the costs of my illness. And if that's your real problem, then the issue should be dealt with.

     If you want to do something about people not paying their medical bills, I'm all for it, but don't act like forcing people to have health insurance is a solution.

     Posted by TexasFlood at 09/10/2009 @ 8:27pm

136. It's funny to see our local republicans defend the type of behavior they were screaming about when it was democrats doing it to bush. Hypocrisy is a bitch.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/10/2009 @ 8:58pm

137. Could the Magic be poofing out of the West Coast?

     The LA Times' Editorial:

     .....the president's comments about the savings available in Medicare were disingenuous, as was his assertion that a new tax on insurers would lead them to "provide greater value for the money" instead of simply passing the cost on to policyholders. Obama will have to come up with a more complete approach to paying for reform as the legislation moves forward. He claimed the plan as his own with this speech, but he left some of the hardest questions unanswered.

     Posted by Happy at 09/10/2009 @ 9:22pm

138. Posted by Mask at 09/10/2009 @ 08:51am

     you float like a butterfly, sting like a bee

     I enjoyed your sink x-ray of urmy the righty trickster!

     Posted by winyahn at 09/10/2009 @ 10:18pm

139. oops -- sick

     Posted by winyahn at 09/10/2009 @ 10:20pm

140. The ignant crakker whitefolks kin only burp him up som bile. Jeez. That should be very embarrassing for Republicans.

     Posted by jgogek at 09/10/2009 @ 1:35pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     You just gottta love neo-classical sterotypical black rooted racism?!

     Posted by BigPasture at 09/10/2009 @ 10:29pm

141. It's funny to see our local republicans defend the type of behavior they were screaming about when it was democrats doing it to bush. Hypocrisy is a bitch.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/10/2009 @ 8:58pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     So will be payback when Pelosi sees a Republican House where according to HER own rules Demoncrats are NOT allowed input in any legislation, are NOT allowed in closed room conferences to draft legislation, and are NOT even allowed to present legislation on the floor of the house!

     I hope the next Republican congress displays the SAME degree of partisonship now on display by Demoncrats!!!

     Posted by BigPasture at 09/10/2009 @ 10:34pm

142. As much as I hate to say this I completely agree with antisocialist.

     Forcing people to do something for "their own good" reeks of bullshit.

     There's been periods of my life where I carried no insurance and never once did I burden anybody with the costs of my illness. And if that's your real problem, then the issue should be dealt with.

     If you want to do something about people not paying their medical bills, I'm all for it, but don't act like forcing people to have health insurance is a solution.

     Posted by TexasFlood at 09/10/2009 @ 8:27pm

     Let's mark this moment. Can we build a monument or something on this historic occasion?

     Posted by antisocialist at 09/10/2009 @ 10:37pm

143. It's funny to see our local republicans defend the type of behavior they were screaming about when it was democrats doing it to bush. Hypocrisy is a bitch.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/10/2009 @ 8:58pm

     Many of us conservatives have noted that while Wilson was being honest, his actions were not acceptable.

     Posted by antisocialist at 09/10/2009 @ 10:38pm

144. If you want to do something about people not paying their medical bills, I'm all for it, but don't act like forcing people to have health insurance is a solution.

     Posted by TexasFlood at 09/10/2009 @ 8:27pm

     I agree. Making mandatory health insurance is not the answer. Make it affordable to all and/or available to people who have recently lost their jobs or are unable to work do to medical problems etc.

     One of my fears is mandatory private health insurance. I can see a reason for mandatory auto liability insurance because a lot of people get screwed by drivers not having insurance and then plowing into their car and driving is considered a privilege not a right. Mandatory private health care coverage, on the other hand, is a wet dream come true for the health care industry.

     The problem we face is people trying to stiff the system and get free care for nothing at the expense of everyone else. Those people should be held accountable for their charges. That would be quite an incentive for them to go with a public option if the option existed. As it stands, it is actually cheaper to pay the ER bill directly than it is to try to get private healthcare coverage. Don't believe me, see how much it cost to get decent health care coverage if you have diabetes, have had cancer, heart disease or some other serious ailment. They'll drain your bank account dry and go after whatever else you have.

     The system as it stands is screwing the poor and providing aid and comfort to the well to do (for a fee of course). A little of a shift of burden might remedy much of the problem, but as the wingers here will scream, that's socialism. They'd rather deny children care than fork out an extra buck to help someone out of a bad spot....cheap bastards!!!

     Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/11/2009 @ 08:02am

145. work do...sorry, should be due to.

     Posted by Wolfgang1 at 09/11/2009 @ 09:23am

146. Teaxasflood-I'm not big on the idea of requiring people have insurance,but have no sympathy for those who can afford it,but do not get it and do not care if they are a burden..I could only go along with requiring it if it was made quite affordable for the poorest of the poor,which is unlikely.If it was made affordable then the only people who would have their freedom infringed upon are those who wish to be free to be irresponsible.My free govt insurance only covers 80% and the 20% added up to hundreds of thousands of dollars, which I never paid because I used my cash to buy drugs and alcohol with rather than make payments and there was nothing that could be done to make me pay other than ruin my credit, which I did not care about..The only way you can make people pay is to garnish their wages which can be seen as an infringement upon their freedom.Not sure what,if any,solutions there are for this health care problem since it seems to be out of control.

     Posted by i'm nobody at 09/11/2009 @ 10:50am

147. Proof positive that Obamanation DID LIE and Wilson was right!

     Healthcare negotiators in the Senate are hammering out language to ensure that illegal immigrants can't get access to government funded insurance.

     The issue is being revisited by a small group of negotiators on the Senate Finance Committee who met Friday morning. They are searching for an elusive bipartisan deal on President Barack Obama's health overhaul.

     Members of the group said they thought they'd settled the matter, but it came to the fore this week when Republican Rep. Joe Wilson shouted, "You lie" at Obama during his speech Wednesday. Obama had said illegal immigrants wouldn't be covered under his health plan.

     Senators said that's forced the committee to work on a provision to verify legal status before an individual can get coverage.

     Posted by BigPasture at 09/11/2009 @ 1:09pm

148. Rep. Joe Wilson, R-S.C., took a lot of heat for yelling out "liar" during President Obama's speech Wednesday night, but Wilson's policy argument appears to be carrying the day.

     Senators in the so called "Gang of Six," a group of bipartisan lawmakers on the Senate Finance Committee working to formulate a passable healthcare plan, are moving quickly to close the loophole that concerned Wilson, Fox News reports.

     "We absolutely assure that those who are here illegally would not get the benefit of any of these initiatives," said Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D.

     Apparently the nation is hypocritical and really does NOT stand for those who are dissenting against political LIES! Imagine that!

     Posted by BigPasture at 09/11/2009 @ 1:15pm

149. Many of us conservatives have noted that while Wilson was being honest, his actions were not acceptable.

     Posted by antisocialist at 09/10/2009 @ 10:38pm

     And many have defended it. I didn't mean ALL conservatives I meant some. Excuse me for speaking in generalities, a behavior I abhor. But he can be honest all he wants. What he said isn't true. We will see once the program actually comes out whether it covers illegals or not. But as of now it is not hard to conceive of a method of stopping access to illegal immigrants. Considering all you have to do is when people sign up for the program to link it to a social security number which is checked against the database.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/11/2009 @ 1:40pm

150. Many of us conservatives have noted that while Wilson was being honest, his actions were not acceptable.

     Posted by antisocialist at 09/10/2009 @ 10:38pm

     It would take someone who hasn't actually read the bill and instead bought into the fox news propaganda to actually believe that the bill covers illegals. If you read the bill you would know it explicitly states that it doesn't.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/11/2009 @ 1:44pm

151. MISHELLEY,

     CHOCOLATE Chippy? CHOCOLATE?

     Are you being racist? Was that a racist comment? It must be because I'm suddenly feeling very offended and (sniff) dienfranchised right now.

     I think you should apologize, big bully!

     In fact I think I'll sue, cause right now the only thing (sniff) that will restore my crushed self esteem is..is

     $8.000,000,000 dollars.

     Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

     Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 09/11/2009 @ 3:30pm

152. Sorry (sniff)

     That's 8 BILLION. Has to be Billion!

     Wahhh! Wahhhh!

     Posted by CHIP THORNTON at 09/11/2009 @ 3:31pm

153. And many have defended it. I didn't mean ALL conservatives I meant some. Excuse me for speaking in generalities, a behavior I abhor. But he can be honest all he wants. What he said isn't true. We will see once the program actually comes out whether it covers illegals or not. But as of now it is not hard to conceive of a method of stopping access to illegal immigrants. Considering all you have to do is when people sign up for the program to link it to a social security number which is checked against the database.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/11/2009 @ 1:40pm

     It would take someone who hasn't actually read the bill and instead bought into the fox news propaganda to actually believe that the bill covers illegals. If you read the bill you would know it explicitly states that it doesn't.

     Posted by Cccomfo1 at 09/11/2009 @ 1:44pm

     I read the entire bill yesterday. It certainly does cover illegals as I have noted. It requires them to be enrolled in Medicaid (sections 204, 241)

     What this does is codify what states like California already are doing. Illegals are enrolled every day in California into the MediCal program. I know, because I have sponsored many of them personally as their pastor. I have had to sign off on many MediCal applications and go through an interview process with the Enrollers.

     Posted by antisocialist at 09/11/2009 @ 5:38pm

154. blah blah blah blah paranoid bogus dreamin' of another bogeyman, Obama's racist, redistributionist, socialist, Muslim, birther, giving illegal aliens free abortions and boob jobs, same day surgery

     Posted by antisocialist at 09/11/2009 @ braindeadpm

     TOPIC: HR 3200

     SOURCE? The report, prepared by the nonpartisan policy research arm of Congress, provides a close reading of the treatment of noncitizens in the House bill on health care reform,

     CONCLUDES? Immigrants living illegally would be ----- ineligible ineligible ineligible ineligible ineligible ineligible ineligible ineligible ---- to receive subsidies to afford such coverage, a report from the Congressional Research Service says.

     AND BTW: Obama's not a Muslim, was born in USA

     The report, prepared by the nonpartisan policy research arm of Congress, provides a close reading of the treatment of noncitizens in the House bill on health care reform, HR 3200.

     The report found that federal subsidies to obtain health coverage would be restricted to U.S. citizens and legal residents

     HR 3200** The bill specifically bars illegal immigrants from receiving payments

     ** The bill specifically bars illegal immigrants from receiving payments

     *** HR 3200 specifically bars illegal immigrants from receiving payments per nonpartisan policy research arm of Congress

     AND BTW: Obama's not promoting death panels or single-payer.

     AND BTW again: Obama didn't do a major speech without a basic fact check first.

     Posted by winyahn at 09/11/2009 @ 9:45pm

155. So because people like yourself shit in the pot Mssr. Nobody, it gets ruined for everyone?

     Hmm that also smells like bullshit.

     If people want to live their lives in debt up to their eyes with no credit, on the bottom rung of society, I say go for it.

     Once again I don't see how forcing people to be indoctrinated into the cesspool that is the health insurance industry will ever solve those problems.

     You want to know how to fix healthcare? Get rid of the insurance companies. While not a cure-all, it's certainly a good start.

     Posted by TexasFlood at 09/11/2009 @ 11:13pm

156. Posted by winyahn at 09/11/2009 @ 9:45pm

     Another liberal than cannot read and charges me with statements I have not made (what a shock, not).

     liberals, get this through your thick, ignorant skulls.

     I HAVE NOT CLAIMED THAT HR 3200 GIVES ANY FUNDS, CREDITS TO ILLEGAL ALIENS.

     I have simply shown that Obama lied when he said

     <There are also those who claim that our reform effort will insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false - the reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.>

     http://tinyurl.com/mwnjcb

     HR 3200 codifies enrolling illegal aliens in Medicaid (sections 204, and 241)

     Now get this point also since so many accuse me of racism or xenophobia.

     I have to use caps since evidently too many of you fail to read or notice;

     I FULLY SUPPORT AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS IN THIS COUNTRY

     I SUPPORT THEM HAVING ACCESS TO MEDICAL CARE THE SAME AS EVERYONE ELSE.

     I HELP ILLEGALS ENROLL IN CALIFORNIA'S VERSION OF MEDICAID TO HELP THEM GET NECESSARY MEDICAL CARE.

     Perhaps some of you will stop misrepresenting my views, but I doubt it.

     Posted by antisocialist at 09/11/2009 @ 11:36pm

157. You want to know how to fix healthcare? Get rid of the insurance companies. While not a cure-all, it's certainly a good start. Posted by TexasFlood at 09/11/2009 @ 11:13pm | ignore this person | warn this person

     there are many people who own insurance company stock, including many pension accounts. what will happen to them?

     Posted by emile duBois at 09/12/2009 @ 08:34am

158. I FULLY SUPPORT AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS IN THIS COUNTRY

     Posted by antisocialist at 09/11/2009 @ 11:36pm

     I sure hope you have several conditions for that `full support' because if you don't, you need to be a strong advocate of `Spread the Wealthism', One Worldism and a borderless US of A.

     Posted by Happy at 09/12/2009 @ 10:29am

159. TexasFlood-I live on a small veterans disability check and can no longer work so I'm staying on the bottom rung and have no reason to care about my credit rating...I could not afford to pay those bills now even though I no longer drink or use drugs.I was just using addicts as an example of people who, typically, do not care about paying hospital bills,but who tend to have lots of hospital bills.Of course,one does not have to be an addict to be irresponsible and there are responsible addicts..Getting rid of an entire industry could cause more problems than it solves.

     Posted by i'm nobody at 09/12/2009 @ 11:13am

160. I FULLY SUPPORT AMNESTY FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS IN THIS COUNTRY

     Posted by antisocialist at 09/11/2009 @ 11:36pm

     I sure hope you have several conditions for that `full support' because if you don't, you need to be a strong advocate of `Spread the Wealthism', One Worldism and a borderless US of A.

     Posted by Happy at 09/12/2009 @ 10:29am

     Nonsense Happy.

     I am merely speaking of the same opportunities, not govt handouts.

     And frankly, nearly all the illegals I know and come into contact with are hardworking. Many have started businesses here and are strong contributors to the economy. As I've said, I do their taxes which is the greatest evidence of their participation.

     Posted by antisocialist at 09/12/2009 @ 12:16pm

161. Nonsense Happy.

     I am merely speaking of the same opportunities, not govt handouts.

     And frankly, nearly all the illegals I know and come into contact with are hardworking. Many have started businesses here and are strong contributors to the economy. As I've said, I do their taxes which is the greatest evidence of their participation.

     Posted by antisocialist at 09/12/2009 @ 12:16pm

     So, I want to give you another opportunity....

     That you ARE limiting your "full support" to those that are:

     "hardworking.....started businesses and are strong contributors to the economy....(and pay) taxes"?

     And not those that came just yesterday, those that are here to facilitate movement of `coyotes', those that are moving goodies across our borders, those that come to commit crimes and skip back and forth....

     IF you call what I say as "Nonsense", then I call you a complete fraud!

     Posted by Happy at 09/12/2009 @ 12:52pm

162. Posted by Happy at 09/12/2009 @ 12:52pm

     Sorry Happy, but you are truly talking in a bigoted manner.

     I am a Christian pastor and I am commanded by G-d to extend help to the stranger, remembering that I was also a stranger once. (Deuteronomy 10:18,19). I've always said that my submission to my govt's laws is total, unless they call me to disobey G-d.

     Posted by antisocialist at 09/12/2009 @ 1:18pm

163. That's funny, Drudge has posted from 9.9.9+ that it was Wilson, not Miller, who was raking in the big $s -- contradicting Melber on who was "cashing in". So has Politico, but an on-line analysis of their headlines show it to be, indeed, biased toward neocons right (whereas Nation, when it isn't being American, is clearly biased toward neocon left).

     Noone -- haven't real all the posts above, but don't have to to know; its never any different -- is relating to the crux of the 9.9.9 "NO! U R THE LIAR" sibling breakup in the Congressional hulu bowl. (Womb-surround for Black Son birthers from hell, yew betcha -- 9 is the birth number tripled.) If it comes to passing out the equipment, those are the guys I'll go down with. I'm talking Ron Paul patriots, teabagged with Bruno balls-to-the-face hate-Christian media. Obama has to take a sickle, hammer and scythe to that or it will use his blackness, and his white soul, to take us all down, willy nilly too stupid to stop themselves, and wouldn't do so, even if they could feel the snake brain slithering inside.

     Posted by jones at 09/12/2009 @ 6:24pm

164. Imagine contributing money to a politician. What a joke our election process has become. Oh but for the good old days pre-Andrew Jackson.

     Posted by gunslinger1 at 09/12/2009 @ 6:56pm

165. Sorry Happy, but you are truly talking in a bigoted manner.

     Posted by antisocialist at 09/12/2009 @ 1:18pm

     If the folks south of the border were poor Scandinavians, Brits, whatever,....I would feel exactly the same way....yeah, I guess I am "bigoted" against illegal entrants into my country; most especially those that have the God-given advantage of being right next door and have a far easier time than Scandinavians, Brits, whatever living an ocean or two away and wants in.

     It's pretty clear to me, your having mixed race family, quite possibly with illegal immigrants among them, have obviously biased your stand on illegal immigrants, plus the fact they are your `customers'....thus, you are forgiven but your views are recognized as BIASED.

     From today's WSJ, "Crime Makes a Comeback in California Politics", by Bill Whalen......a few statistics for you:

     ...."approximately 30,000 illegal aliens currently residing in California prisons".....

     ....Over the past eight years, the cost of inmate care has more than quadrupled to $2.9 billion annually, or $14,000 per prisoner......

     ----incarcerated illegal aliens cost California taxpayers nearly $1 billion annually......

     ==================

     Besides the obvious burden with housing and caring for the imprisoned illegal immigrant criminal elements, what's the cost to American citizens who suffered property and personal harm from them?

     It's bad enough, and always unfortunate when a legal immigrant turns out a bad apple....but you can bet that among lower-class illegal immigrants, a larger proportion will turn to the easy money of crime than say, your average H1-B Visa applicant or someone who waited 7 years on a quota waiting list before getting that coveted visa to emigrate to the US.

     Common sense!

     Posted by Happy at 09/12/2009 @ 7:56pm

166. the reason the repugs are getting so meshuggene is that they see the writing on the wall, check your bible.

     they know very well that if Obama pulls this country out of a dramatic economic slump, as he shows all signs of doing so, they are toast at the ballot box.

     the fake liberals, who are tearing him down because he is no deus ex machina also will be discredited, and will have to pivot and say I knew it all along.

     people vote with their wallet as the saying goes.

     Posted by emile duBois at 09/13/2009 @ 10:50am

167. The Nobel committee honored Borlaug in 1970 for his contributions to high-yield crop varieties and bringing other agricultural innovations to the developing world. Many experts credit the green revolution with averting global famine during the second half of the 20th century and saving perhaps 1 billion lives.

     now THIS was an American.

     Posted by emile duBois at 09/13/2009 @ 11:41am

168. Well Santi- Now you see why the liberals have problems with the southern wing of your party. This Droopy character gets more distasteful every time he doesn't concentrate. There is no wonder in my mind about screaming haters at town halls. This guy cares about no one but himself. Most Hispanics I know stay and work amongst a group of friends that help them blend into the community. They work hard and don't play the crook game. My buddy Tony would smack this guy in the side of the head. He is a bad guy who has a poor outlook on human nature.

     Posted by whatizz at 09/13/2009 @ 10:39pm

169. they know very well that if Obama pulls this country out of a dramatic economic slump, as he shows all signs of doing so, they are toast at the ballot box. Posted by emile duBois at 09/13/2009 @ 10:50am | ignore this person | warn this person

     With not even 20% of the misapplied economic infusion spent and the totally misguided efforts expended by washington d.c. gov. officials, there will be only tar and feathers and burnings at the stake afforded any who would make such claims!

     Posted by BigPasture at 09/14/2009 @ 01:41am

170. Are we honestly going to give Obama credit for something that would've happened, most likely even quicker, had we not went into more debt funding million dollar turtle crossing paths and monorail projects to link Las Vegas to Anaheim?

     And if the economy, as it appears to be doing, continues to improve...can we stop any aspects of the stimulus package that haven't been spent yet? Wouldn't that make sense?

     Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/14/2009 @ 07:10am

171. Are we honestly going to give Obama credit for something that would've happened, most likely even quicker, had we not went into more debt funding million dollar turtle crossing paths and monorail projects to link Las Vegas to Anaheim?

     And if the economy, as it appears to be doing, continues to improve...can we stop any aspects of the stimulus package that haven't been spent yet? Wouldn't that make sense?

     Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/14/2009 @ 07:10am

172. Are we honestly going to give Obama credit for something that would've happened, most likely even quicker, had we not went into more debt funding million dollar turtle crossing paths and monorail projects to link Las Vegas to Anaheim?

     And if the economy, as it appears to be doing, continues to improve...can we stop any aspects of the stimulus package that haven't been spent yet? Wouldn't that make sense?

     Posted by Citizen_Carrier at 09/14/2009 @ 07:10am

173. Posted by antisocialist at 09/10/2009 @ 12:34pm |

     "I'm sorry, I thought this was about all Americans, not just you."

     That cuts both ways, doesn't it?

     Why is your ability to forego health insurance and healthcare more important than having a healthcare system that addresses the MANY problems with our current one?

     "Many Americans like myself who do not purchase health insurance, who do not want health insurance would lose our freedom of choice on this issue."

     What about American's 'freedom' to keep their medical coverage when they have 'pre-existing conditions'?

     Should I be upset that my 'freedom' to drive 115mph was taken away or that I'm not 'free' to grow certain plants without visits from the DEA?

     Do you think that laws against suicide are a suppression of the freedom to off oneself?

     "What you are doing is imposing a massive tax increase because if I don't purchase the insurance, Obama and the govt are going penalize me on my tax return."

     You know that you'll get some token insurance coverage (probably from the public option 'exchange' ) that fulfills the minimal obligation and move on just like the millions driving around with liability-only car insurance.

     There are also exclusions for small businesses and people with low incomes.

     How many people do you really think are in this category of 'can afford' but 'choose not to purchase' health insurance? 0.01%? 0.1%?

     And why should that tiny tail wag the American dog?

     Posted by snowball777 at 09/14/2009 @ 3:10pm

174. Hey happy, where are you ancestors from, seriously you come from somewhere, so where?

     Posted by Denise29 at 09/14/2009 @ 9:42pm